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sweetestpopcorn · 2 years

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There are so many similarities between Viserys ii and Tywin Lannister.

Both their mother died when they were young.

Loved their wives a lot, who either left them of died.

Became stern after this. Though tywin was always stern.

Had 3 kids - 1 daughter and 2 sons.

Both were poor fathers. We know about tywin, but Viserys had no concern for Naerys when he forced her to marry Aegon.

Both their son's joined kingsguard.

Both were Hands by the age of 20 and very good at it. De facto rulers.

What say you popcorn?

Hi there! 🤗

I must confess I am not a fan of parallels, or of saying this character is just like that character. On the one hand, if that was the case, George would be doing a pretty bad job as a writer by giving us characters that are redundant, or copies of each other. On the other hand, most parallels that people use are so weak and general that they can apply for any two characters (e.g., has their house's look, has a son/daughter named X, had X children, loved to fly, had a paramour, lost their mother...).

Here let me show you how easy it is by showing you the "parallels" between Daemon and his son Aegon III. There are quite a lot of them.

Both married a Targaryen and a Velaryon woman (i.e., Laena and Rhaenyra; Jaehaera and Daenaera).

Both had three daughters and two sons (i.e., Baela, Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, and Visenya; Daeron, Baelor, Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena).

Both lost their mothers when they were young.

Both were sons of a very famous prince (i.e., Baelon Targaryen “The Spring Prince” and Daemon Targaryen “The Rogue Prince).

Both had a brother named Viserys with whom they were close in their childhood (such closeness in their adult years was only maintained between Aegon III and his brother).

Both had two sons that became kings (i.e., Aegon III and Viserys II; Daeron I and Baelor I).

Both had their claim at one point challenged by a woman, and both later married that woman (i.e., Rhaenyra and Jaehaera).

Both had a very unfortunate and unhappy arranged first marriage (Daemon with Rhea Royce and Aegon III with Jaehaera Targaryen).

Both were skilled fighters.

I can even add, both were dragonriders, and Targaryens on both sides.

See? Quite a lot of things, but do they matter? Are they deep? I would say no, they aren’t. I used Daemon and his son but I could have easily picked other characters. And I will challenge anyone right here and now to send me characters for me to draw parallels between them. This is juts to show how pointless most parallels are.

Now are they all irrelevant? No. I believe George himself has compared Dany to Aegon the Conqueror, and their parallels are relevant, and go deeper than irrelevant things that really say very little if anything about two characters. This to say I don’t hate or dislike every two parallels, I just started to grow a deep distaste for them when I start seeing dumb things like:

“Culinary skills”, “Son named Joffrey”, “Loved to Fly” I die a little on the inside.

Comparing now the parallels between Tywin and MVP Viserys.

Both their mother died when they were young. - This is true of such a great list of characters I don’t consider it relevant. It would be like “mother died in childbirth”. Small list of other characters who lost their mothers when they were young just from the top of my head: Aenys, Viserys I, Daemon, Aegon III, Baela, Rhaena, Jon Snow, Daenerys, Cersei, Tyrion, Jaime, Harwin Strong, Larys Strong, Aemma Arryn, Rhaenyra Targaryen, Brandon Stark, Rickon Stark... these are just the ones who instantly popped out.

Loved their wives a lot, who either left them of died. - Tywin was always stern, he was only “happy” with Lady Johanna, yes it got worse after she died but the bar was already low. Meanwhile Viserys II was a charmer who enchanted everyone before Larra left him. Also by stating either “died or left them” I feel it’s forced and not actually the same situation. I would say it would be the same situation if both had been left by their wives, or if both their wives had died.

Became stern after this. Though tywin was always stern. - As you say - very correctly if I might add - Tywin was always stern. If Tywin didn’t really change I don’t find it an accurate parallel.

Had 3 kids - 1 daughter and 2 sons. - Again such a shallow comparison. Back to Daemon and Aegon II who each had 2 sons and 3 daughters. Were they similar? No.

Both were poor fathers. We know about tywin, but Viserys had no concern for Naerys when he forced her to marry Aegon. - I feel we need to learn more about Viserys and his children before making such a strong statement because we know so little. And being a poor father is true of so many characters - Aegon I, Jaehaerys (sometimes), Viserys I, Balon Greyjoy...

Both their son's joined kingsguard. - This yes, though in one case it was his heir, and in the other, his second son... not exactly the same situation.

Both were Hands by the age of 20 and very good at it. De facto rulers. - Actually we can’t say this. We don’t know at what age Viserys became Aegon’s Hand. I believe he only did at the end of his brother’s reign but we might need to get back to this if F&B II ever comes out (yes Popcorn making jokes at this hour lol).

The most relevant parallels that I see between Viserys and Tywin would be that they were both considered to be some of the best Hands in the history of Westeros, and both had a daughter who was queen and rumoured to have an affair with her brother who was a knight of the Kingsguard. Where it matters though, I consider Tywin and Viserys to be quite different.

Tywin was someone to whom the ends very much justified the means (i.e., having babies murdered) whilst Viserys II wasn’t that sort of person. Was he that sort of person, he would have gotten rid of Baelor even before he became king and just ceased power for himself. Certainly I can’t see anything that he did that could even be comparable to what Tywin had done to Elia and her children. Another key difference between them was how Tywin was raised for rule (being his father’s heir) and learned from his father’s own mistakes, since Tytos was a weak man. Viserys, on the other hand, was his mother’s youngest son out of five and his father’s second son. He wasn’t expected to ever become king. Both of his parents were also formidable people, none could be called weak by any chance. Let’s not forget Viserys’s mama and papa was the Rogue Prince Daddy Daemon and Rhaenyra Targaryen the Realm’s Delight.

About their daughters while we know the rumours about Cersei to be #facts, about Naerys we know them to be slander Aegon IV tried to throw her way, since nowhere is there something that would lead anyone who has reading comprehension to suggest that she and Aemon were indeed lovers. And another key difference is that Cersei’s line will end, whilst Naerys’s line didn’t and in fact both the Targaryens and the Martells we see in the current asoiaf books have her blood. Not to mention that personality wise, Naerys and Cersei are polar opposites, and maybe drawing the anti-parallels between them would have a LOT of merit as they are more than just skin deep.

Finally we have their deaths and how they came to be, which I think are also worth bringing up. Tywin was killed by Tyrion, and Viserys II was rumoured to be killed by his son Aegon IV. If the latter is indeed true (we don’t know for sure, I have some doubts), this would be a key parallel between them. But... here comes that but again...

While Tyrion’s actions were very much not justified but... we know where he’s coming from and from a very emotional and ignoring laws and ethics for a moment, Tywin earned what he got, Viserys did nothing to Aegon IV, that we know of, but being absent and stern and cleaning after his sh:t the best he could. Again, certainly I cannot image him doing anything of the sort of what Tywin did to Tyrion. If he had, I am positive the history books would have let us know.

So in sum, I see nothing between them strong enough to justify an “Omg they are so similar to each other”.

Funnily enough, we hear Tyrion speaking very well of Viserys II. Not really relevant to the topic but I will leave this right here because we stan MVP Viserys.

All this aside and I really enjoyed this ask, Anon. I got a lot out of my chest not gonna lie here XD and this was a really interesting question.

All the best to you, Anon 🤗

#viserys ii targaryen #tywin lannister #can we please stop comparing lannisters to targaryens?#people #house targaryen >>>>> everyone else #and it makes it all the worse that jaime is such a targaryen wannabe #he just lacks the style #every other house do keep trying #these parallels...#I swear to the seven #someone please tell me all the parallels between lyanna and jon arryn's mother #I mean they both had a son named Jon!!!!#I am sure they had SO MUCH in common #popcorn answers #FYI I don't hate all parallels #just these shallow and forced ones #like stop trying to make fetch happen #it's not going to happen

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jackoshadows · 3 years

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Why did Jon Snow refuse the offer of Winterfell from Stannis?

Read Jon XII, A Storm of Swords. An entire chapter dedicated to Jon’s though process on why he refuses Stannis’ offer. To make it easier I will highlight the relevant parts:

He sat on the bench and buried his head in his hands. Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father’s heir.

It was not Lord Eddard’s face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn’s. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here?

The warmth took some of the ache from his muscles and made him think of Winterfell’s muddy pools, steaming and bubbling in the godswood. Winterfell, he thought. Theon left it burned and broken, but I could restore it. Surely his father would have wanted that, and Robb as well. They would never have wanted the castle left in ruins.

You can’t be the Lord of Winterfell, you’re bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. And the stone kings were growling at him with granite tongues. You do not belong here. This is not your place. When Jon closed his eyes he saw the heart tree, with its pale limbs, red leaves, and solemn face. The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman’s hungry fire god. I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods.

Thorne and Marsh will sway him, Yarwyck will support Lord Janos, and Lord Janos will be chosen Lord Commander. And what does that leave me, if not Winterfell?

Ygritte wanted me to be a wildling. Stannis wants me to be the Lord of Winterfell. But what do I want? Would I sooner be hanged for a turncloak by Lord Janos, or forswear my vows, marry Val, and become the Lord of Winterfell? It seemed an easy choice when he thought of it in those terms . . . though if Ygritte had still been alive, it might have been even easier. Val was a stranger to him.

I would need to steal her (Val) if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister’s son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly’s boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We’d find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance’s son and Craster’s would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me.

And finally:

“Gods, wolf, where have you been?” Jon said when Ghost stopped worrying at his forearm. “I thought you’d died on me, like Robb and Ygritte and all the rest. I’ve had no sense of you, not since I climbed the Wall, not even in dreams.” The direwolf had no answer, but he licked Jon’s face with a tongue like a wet rasp, and his eyes caught the last light and shone like two great red suns. Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre’s. He had a weirwood’s eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they’d found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.

He had his answer then

Jon thinks he could become Lord of Winterfell and make Ned proud. He thinks Ned and Robb would want him to restore Winterfell. He thinks of Ygritte and Val - how he could make a life with Val. He thinks of his precarious situation at the wall - with Thorne and Slynt wanting to get rid of him. He thinks of Sam and Gilly and Mance’s son.

This is important:

When Jon closed his eyes he saw the heart tree, with its pale limbs, red leaves, and solemn face. The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman’s hungry fire god. I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods.

Stannis precondition for making Jon Lord of Winterfell is that he has to burn down the Winterfell Godswood and convert to the Lord of Light. Burn down the Old Gods. And Ghost returning at the end of the chapter is what reminds Jon of the oaths he made before the Godswood, his duty to the NW and the Old Gods of the North.

The direwolf had no answer, but he licked Jon’s face with a tongue like a wet rasp, and his eyes caught the last light and shone like two great red suns. Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre’s. He had a weirwood’s eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they’d found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.

He had his answer then

To reiterate, Jon does not refuse the offer of Winterfell from Stannis for Ned, Catelyn, Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran or Rickon. He does not refuse Winterfell for love of his family.

He does it because of sworn oaths to the Old Gods.

There is only one time over the entire 5 books that Jon makes a very important decision because of love for family - specifically one member of his family. And that’s when he breaks his sworn oaths at the tail end of ADwD to go save Arya from Ramsay Bolton. And yes, he is pretty much walking a thin line throughout the book by helping Stannis and sending Mance out to get Arya - but the end is where he decides to go attack Ramsay as Lord Commander.

So yeah, Jon’s arc is about overcoming societal biases and doing right and leading as just a bastard. It’s about not giving into his selfish impulses and envy unlike his character foil Theon Greyjoy.

But Jon is also a character who wants to wield power. He wants more because all his life he’s been told he cannot have it by virtue of his birth.

You can’t be the Lord of Winterfell, you’re bastard-born, he heard Robb say again.

Imagine how he is going to feel when Robb then makes him KITN?!

Would Jon refuse being Lord of Winterfell when the same offer is made to him by his beloved brother Robb? Who does not demand that he burns down the Godswood? Who has legitimized him as a Stark? A Jon who has been assassinated by mutineer NW brothers and who has always wanted Winterfell? Who wants an united North to face the threat of the Others?

It’s okay for Jon to want to rule Winterfell. He does not have to accept the circumstances of his birth - because those circumstances are unfair and unjust.

And yeah, Jon’s not going to be endgame king. There’s a good chance he ends up in the Lands of Always Winter at the end of the series. At the same time, this does not mean that his narrative arc and journey does not include climbing that ladder as high as possible, to the very top. There’s a reason GRRM spend 13 chapters on Lord Commander Jon Snow being a savvy politician, strategist and leader in ADwD.

Jon Snow is going to be ruler of the north sometime during the next two books and Robb’s will is there for a reason.

GRRM SSM, August 2000

Q: I have a question, since Robb actually legitimized Jon and named him his heir for Winterfell and the North before the Red Wedding (granted no one knows about this and is still alive or free, the Greatjon knows as does Edmure, but I dont see them getting out of the Twins any time soon and Catelyn would probably die before telling anyone) does this make Jon’s rejection of Stannis’ offer moot?

A: Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true… but you are forgetting the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed… Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Jason Mallister… they are all alive and free... As to what is and is not moot… the key point is, only a =king= can legitimize a bastard……

#Jon Snow #ASoS #A Storm of Swords #ASoIaF #GRRM #TWoW speculation

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janiedean · 3 years

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Amazing how you can erase and twist everything someone says and not even bother to check things before launching in your 1000 words answer where you repeat the same things over and over again. When I say “Theon’s story is about destroying death”, I AM talking about his trauma and abuse. I’m not saying that Theon is a superhero, I’m saying that Theon’s story is literally about surviving and saying no to the dying of light, he’s always been trapped between life and death. How is that less meaningful than Jon being AA just because he’s special. Jon is stereotypical, not matter how much you deny it. He is the bastard son of the “good” Ned Stark that everyone seems to venerate, he becomes important, he’s actually a prince, and heir to the kingdom, he’s going to come back from the dead and apparently it’s not enough because he’s also AA. Also “I search for AA and see only Snow”, how is that not a red flag? Didn’t you think that it could be about Ramsay hiding Theon? I didn’t say that everything is about mythology and ancient literature, I said Theon has a lot of connections to it, connections that are hard not to notice, that actually make sense and are not taken out of nowhere like everyone in this fandom does. Theon’s story is about himself, not about Bran or any Stark, you’re just obsessed with throbb. Theon is connected to magic and to the gods, Theon is the rightful king of the Iron Islands, so why it’s so amusing to people when someone suggests that Theon has something to do. I’m not saying that Theon has to be important for his story to count, but why it’s so amusing to people the idea that Theon is an abuse and rape victim and at the same time he has something to do. When it comes to female victims, they want them to do great things, when it comes to Theon they constantly reduce him to poor say boy, but Theon is not like that, Theon is in pain and he wants everything to end, but he’s also angry and he wants to be free. I didn’t say that he has to explore the sea because he’s an Ironborn, you said that, not me. I think that that’s something Book!Theon would want to do if he survives everything. Because he would be free and he would go into the unknown. That’s not true Theon has no connection to the sea, the Drowned God himself wants him as king and he likes ships, there’s also the fact that he never learned how to use a ship because he was kidnapped at 10. Also what’s so wrong about him connecting with his culture? He could change things, he wouldn’t be a viking, he would be an explorer. The way you talk about it, it’s like dealing with trauma means closing himself in an house. And about the prophecy, what’s so amusing about saying that Theon has a lot that fits? I know that the prophecy is vague, but Davos and Stannis don’t come close to it as Theon does. Theon died in almost every possible way and managed to come back on his own. He keeps saying that he died in Winterfell. Read the last chapters in ACOK, it’s all there and it all happens at the same time, and still there’s so much more, so many things. And it’s like this HAS to be true, but you say no to everything, you don’t even think that he has something to do with the Iron Islands, you just think he has to “atone” to Bran, so how are you different from D&D? Theon doesn’t have to atone to Bran, Robb or anyone else called Stark, his story is about identity. And Bran is talking to Theon and yes, Theon took Winterfell, but it’s not the only reason their stories are connected, Theon taking Winterfell from Bran was a foreshadowing to them interacting in the future for different more important reasons, that was always clear to me

... anon never mind that I hadn't talked about this in ages so like you came into my inbox with some 500 words of replying at 8 am on a sunday morning and idk how *I* am supposedly twisting things when

you brought this out of nowhere

I hadn't talked about the AA thing nor anything wrt theon's ending in like... a year

you are basically making up half of what I said or didn't because like 'oh I didn't say he had a tying to the sea because he's an ironborn' but two lines later you say 'what's the issue if he reconnects with his ancestry' which.... means that he'd have a tie to the sea because he's an ironborn so what's the truth here

'you're obsessed with throbb' I didn't mention robb once in my entire answer nor throbb nor I have written throbb meta recently like... I ship throbb but I don't see how that has any relevance to an answer where I literally didn't mention it and I said theon's sl can't be just about the starks

idk why you seem to think I have great stakes re jon snow and 'he's stereotypical no matter how much you say he's not', I'm saying that for a chosen one archetype he's a deconstruction so he's not stereotypical in the way h*rry p*tter is or aragorn is or whatever and it's like objective text and honestly I have fic to write and stuff to do and I could have like completely ignored your ask and said 'I think you're wrong' instead yesterday I spent half an hour answering you like... you don't need to sound that aggressive or come at me with this entire block of text when I wasn't even the one starting this conversation

what’s so amusing about saying that Theon has a lot that fits?

anon I explained in those 1k reply or whatever all the reasons why everything theon has that fits is something every single other character has at that point dany has the exact same reasons for fitting it and I told you all the reasons why jon has extra things that fit that no one else has, like.... it's my opinion, I haven't changed my mind since 2012 on it, you aren't going to change it and no one is until grrm writes different, you don't need to convince me or look for me to validate your reading because you can have whichever reading you want and no one stops you, I just don't think it's correct, the end

The way you talk about it, it’s like dealing with trauma means closing himself in an house.

anon you keep on saying I say that but you are aware that if I say I want char X to get their little house in the village/woods/city of their choice and grow strawberries with their loved ones and be happy I'm not saying what you said and I'm talking abt endgame? jaime and brienne both also deal with trauma and when I say that I hope they get married on tarth have fifteen kids and never set foot in a court again I'm not saying having children is the only way to deal with trauma like.... one thing is the endgame one thing is how you get there, where did I say theon is gonna lock himself in a cottage in wow and stay there until ados? nowhere, like.... please a bit of chill here? you read a thing and arbitrarily decided it meant stuff it doesn't mean but I am the one twisting and erasing? like sorry but it sounds like you want a fight about it or smth and believe me fighting about who is AA is not on my list of to-do things for today, also 'I died in winterfell' is like... yeah, theon greyjoy died in wf then he became reek then he became theon again, it's metaphorical, jon literally died, also like if AA wasn't a main fiver then it'd probably be someone completely out of left field that no one gaf about and for that matter there's a character who has been dying and coming back to life who has a flaming sword since like acok, but do I see you telling me it's textual proof beric is AA? no, but that would make more textual sense than theon imvho so *shrug*

in short: anon sorry but it sounds like being that theon is your fave - which... I mean he's in my top three so I agree that he's a great fave choice - you want him desperately to have the main role in the main storyline which is imvho not the case and again... even if jon was stereotypical (which we can argue on but like... from your wording I think you hate jon ngl which fair enough everyone has their dislikes) it wouldn't make the textual evidence less evidence and like... idk how to say it nicely but not liking the protagonist is more common than not and if you don't whatever but that doesn't mean he's not and that the textual stuff indicating he has the mystical hero storyline doesn't exist, I'd suggest you make peace with that concept and with the concept that your fave doesn't need to have any specialness in their sl to be a legitimate fave, also like... in asoiaf everyone who is special™ has a shit life and when grrm says he wants a bittersweet ending like in lotr, do I have to remind anyone what was lotr's ending? samwise gamgee goes back to his little house and children and wife in the shire and says he's home and we're all happy that the dude who deserved it most got it great, if that's what he's aiming for I really don't think presuming everyone gets the magical great™ storyline is in the cards X°D but most of all: again, everyone who's had a sl being full of magic prophecies and shit in these books has had a crap life and hated every second of it that was related to those prophecies and I want theon to be happy at the end so in lack of any imvho text proof that says it's anyone but jon I'll stick with that because it means none of my faves is in line to hate their life, which is exactly what happens to jon if he's AA and exactly what I think is gonna happen and I don't particularly like that for him either bc I do want jon to have nice things but idt he'll get them, doesn't mean I'm trying to find any textual reason to decide on my own that AA is dany (a char I care a lot less about) so that she gets the brunt of it because that's now how it works, I made peace with it too X°D

#1 #2 #34 #5 #6 #anonymous #ask post #ch: theon greyjoy #ch: jon snow #honestly anon i'd ask myself why you're so invested in this you're looking for a fight #bc that's how you sound like #*shrug*#peace

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une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir · 3 years

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I’ve seen you write a bit about lemongate/the red door and it foreshadowing Dany burning King’s Landing. I wonder if it’s also another way of showing how Dany is taking the "opposite" path of going home, as lemons are mainly connected to Dorne. Dorne, that she lost all chance of being welcomed in when Quentyn died and that she seems to be on a further collision course with in TWOW. She is herself burning away any path back ”home” she could have ever had.

Lemongate as people often perceive it doesn’t particularly exist, if GRRM acrually understands citrus trees. They simply do not flower and / or bear fruit if temperature drops below a certain point. Such, lemon trees once bearing flowers / fruits in Braavos ten years ago (when Daniella was there), but not at present (when Arya is there), simply means temperature is dropping (winter is coming).

However, lemons are also connected with three narrative points.

* Sansa loves lemoncakes (lemon + sugar, a “sweet lemon if you will”. She also has some... interesting imagery with it. i cannot recall another character having such an insistance on a particular food either.

* Dorne where citrus trees flourish. They also come associated with the Martells in general, but in specific way: justice for Elia / Martells over what a Targaryen / (usurpers of= King’s Landing has done against them.

* Danerys’ remembering a lemon tree, which always comes together with the house with the red door. Now, the house with the red door is a metaphor for Danerys burning King’s Landing. Every single mention of a red door (even in a very oblique way) comes with the imagery of burning the city.

It’s difficult to look at all three and not say they must be connected. It’s easier to look from top to bottom. In the third point, we have the red door (Danerys burning King’s Landing) and the lemon tree (whatever it may represent) that come together, therefore both are bad imagery. There’s really no way around it. Whatever the lemon tree represents, i’s something as negative as Danerys’ burning King’s Landing.

After S8 aired, there’s been some speculation that Aegon might have taken Cersei’s plotline, such in the books its Aegon that sits in King’s Landing and Danerys burns the whole thing down in anger. Aegon is half-Martell. Such an event would also tie with the second point, the narrative association of how Targaryens / (usurpers of King’s Landing) have screwed over the Martells.

Seen under this light, we have Danerys burning King’s Landing (house with the red door), to usurp / kill a Martell (lemon tree). Such, the lemon tree’s existance (Aegon) comes tied with the red door (burning of King’s Landing). It fits nicely with both those that think that Aegon = Sun’s Son “prophecy” which signals him as a Martell as well as Undying visions, as Danerys rejecting the house of the red door (the lemon tree outside is specifically mentioned), is followed by Aerys ordering to burn King’s Landing so the usurper (in his mind, but Bobby B won fair and square) can’t have it, then followed by Elia with baby Ageon on her lap (the Sun’s Son).

In this straightforward reading (?), Sansa’s love for lemoncakes is irrelevant.

Now, there’s a sleight of hand here, I think. Before season 8, I hadn’t even considered Aegon’s role. It was only after that I did, before we were all too concentrated on Jon Snow being the rightful heir and blah blah. Hell, he still might be, after Aegon (or even over him, as there’s no need for the show to go for the “annullment” plotline when Targs had multiple wives before. But that doesn’t matter really, those are details. Still, Jon was born, of all places... in Dorne. Like lemons do.

The Targaryens’ betrayal of Dorne is also tied to Jon. Not only he’s the representation of such betrayal, but also a mirror image of such betrayal. Rhaegar failed to protect both his wives, Martell and Stark (fire and ice, uh) from dying, and (some) of his kids only survived because their mothers hatched a plan for them to live in clandestinity with other “fathers” if you will. Ned took Jon as his own kid, while Connington comes to think of Aegon as his own too (it’s even part of their desguise).

And Jon is narratively connected with Sansa, who does loves lemoncakes. Which isn’t really relevant, unless their bond is relevant, and Jon does betray Danerys... for love. Another thing I’ve been growing to lately, is Jon’s “failed” attachement to Robb which he couldn’t help during his own, contrasted / paralleled with a potential attachment to Aegon “Martell”. I kind of doubt that the brothers would strike such a bond that Jon betraying Danerys for Aegon’s sake alone would fit a “treason for love” (and it would be revenge, as poor Aegon will likely be dead at this point), but its true S8 framed Jon betraying Danerys for the Starks as familial love. Yes, the latter doesn’t really tie with Sansa’s lemoncakes, but we can have both.

Interestingly, this fits the Sun’s Son prophecy (followed by the mummer’s dragon), as well as the imagery of Danerys’ House of Undying visions as well. The vision preceding the house of the red door is the Red Wedding (or “a” Red Wedding part 2, a Stark affair which points to Robb and / or Jon and / or the relationship between Robb (called often the Young Wolf) and Jon, which again can also be present in a potential relationship between Aegon (called often Young Griff) and Jon). Then the house of the red door contains that old man that Danerys’ considered family (meta for Aegon perhaps) while the lemon tree stays outside (meta for Jon), then followed by Aerys ordering his pyromancer to burn King’s Landing (pyromancer = Drogon), finally Elia with baby Aegon (speaks for himself) and Rhaegar warning “the dragon has three heads, there must be one more” (Jon).

I gotta say that the following House of Undying vision is often dismissed, the one with the group of wizards. I very much doubt that shouldn’t be taken into account as they come after a weirwood door (Stark) and five that I think are stand-ins for the remaining Starks + Theon. I’m still not convinced Jon is the one that shanks the bitch. Maybe a group effort or something.

Anyway, I highly rambled. Before s8 I didn’t consider it, but after s8 and the Aegon is Cersei speculations, I agree with you that the lemon tree must refer to the Martells in some fashion. I do think is due to Aegon himself and / or through Jon, not through Quentyn. But as GRRM says he often does foreshadowing in more than one layer. I’ll say it fits the overal thematic as well. Danerys’ rejecting Quentyn’s offer and roasting him with dragonfire, which (most likely) triggers his sister moving against her in revenge and to protect her own would nicely foreshadow Danerys’ rejecting Aegon as king (he may even offer marriage, the poor guy... death is preferable, he just doesn’t know it) and roasting him (and KL) with dragonfire, whch could trigger his half-brother in revenge and to protect here own.

This is a garbled mess because I have been awake for 36 hours and for that I apologise. Still, I think my overall point s kind of explained.

#and now i must go buy a teapot

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laboratorioautoral · 4 years

Text

The original outline and why it is still relevant to ASOIF

Since the original outline for A Song of Ice and Fire was leaked there’s been a massive effort, both in fandom and mainstream media, to discredit everything that was revealed there as a potential clue for the future of the story.

Although I agree that some changes happened, I don’t subscribe to the idea that the outline is irrelevant at this point. This little essay is my attempt to analyze the outline and compare it with what has already happened and still could happen in the future books, how much was changed and more importantly, how it was changed. I won’t say this is an impartial analysis (because I don’t believe that such a thing exists) but an honest effort of textual interpretation.

Here we go:

“Dear Ralph,

Here are the first thirteen chapters (170 pages) of the high fantasy novel I promised you, which I'm calling 'A Game of Thrones.' When completed, this will be the first volume in what I see as an epic trilogy with the overall title, 'A Song of Ice and Fire.'”

First things first. A Song of Ice and Fire was first imagined as a trilogy and the fact that GRRM extended it to 7 books obviously has an impact in terms of structure. It seems quite reasonable to assume that a lot more would have to happen to fill the gap occupied by 4 additional books. That alone is a huge influencing factor, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the essence of the story was changed as we can see in the following paragraphs.

“As you know, I don't outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it. I do, however, have some strong notions as to the overall structure of the story I'm telling, and the eventual fate of many of the principle characters in the drama. Roughly speaking, there are three major conflicts set in motion in the chapters enclosed. These will form the major plot threads of the trilogy, [unclear] each other in what should be a complex but exciting (I hope [unclear] tapestry. Each of the [unclear] presents a major threat [unclear] of my imaginary realm, the Seven Kingdoms, and to the live [unclear] principal characters.”

Here we have Martin admitting that he usually doesn’t outline his novels over fear that he will lose interest while writing it. However, he also clarifies that he has “some strong notions” for the story he is telling, especially in which concerns those he considers to be the main characters.

In some of interviews Martin already said that the ending he had planned many years ago is still in place and he has known the characters’ endings ever since. It’s safe to assume, I think, that the core of his plans hasn’t changed much. What might have changed is the path that leads the characters from one point to another.

“The first threat grows from the enmity between the great houses of Lannister and Stark as it plays out in a cycle of plot, counter-plot, ambition, murder, and revenge, with the iron throne of the Seven Kingdoms as the ultimate prize. This will form the backbone of the first volume of the trilogy, A Game of Thrones.”

Can anyone say that this didn’t happen? Of course not. This is the spark that lights the fire that will consume the Seven Kingdoms throughout the story, with major and minor consequences that will shape both the narrative and the characters’ development. The conflict between Starks and Lannisters is the first of three conflicts that represent the core of the story.

“While the lion of Lannister and the direwolf of Stark snarl and scrap, however, a second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. The Dothraki invasion will be the central story of my second volume, A Dance with Dragons.”

Here we have the second major conflict and with this one in particular I’ll have to take my time to elaborate some points. First of all, A Dance With Dragons became the 5th book of the series instead of the second. So far everything we saw about Daenerys was her preparing to take her place at the center of the stage.

Dany has her own arc which hasn’t integrated to the events in Westeros so far given to her geographic location. That doesn’t mean that Daenerys has no relevance to what’s happening in Westeros, but her existence wasn’t directly noticed by the seven kingdoms yet. Daenerys is preparing for her role in the main story: She is gathering a military force based on the Dothraki to invade Westeros.

We already know that Daenerys will have more than just the Dothraki on her side. The Unsullied were added to the plot and my guess is that they exist to humanize Daenerys and make us sympathize with her cause as she creates the great narrative of “Breaker of Chains”. This makes Daenerys sound heroic and noble, but I would like to point that Martin is very specific about one thing: The fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn is first and foremost a threat. She is ready to invade Westeros and invasions are not peaceful.

At this point we already know two things worth being mentioned that are related both with Daenerys and the title of this book: The Dance of Dragons was a civil war involving two Targaryen claimants to the Iron Throne. On one side we had Rhaenyra, firstborn of the king and rightful heir if gender wasn’t an issue in Westerosi succession laws. On the other side we had Aegon, a son born from the king’s second marriage. His claim was mostly based on gender norms that favor male heirs in detriment of primogeniture.

It isn’t much of a dance if we only have one dragon, is it? Yes, Daenerys is the first half of this equation, but there is another half that Martin hadn’t created yet (or didn’t mention) when he wrote the outline. There is a second Targaryen, or at least someone who claims to be one.

Aegon VI, or Young Griff, is actually the first one to arrive in Westeros with invasion in mind. Does it mean that Dany is less of a threat or that she was suddenly placed in a heroic position? Absolutely not. No one with three dragons is a harmless creature and Dany is even more dangerous now that she has a direct enemy in position to take away everything she fought for.

I know that there’s a lot of speculation on whether Aegon is a Blackfire or not, but honestly I think his true lineage will be irrelevant as long as he has at least a drop of Targaryen blood and the right looks. Legitimate or not, Aegon looks like a Targaryen, has the house’s ancestral sword and a story that is convincing enough. More than that, by posing as Prince Rhaegar’s legitimate son, Aegon makes his claim stronger than Daenerys’. On top of that, he would be the Targaryen male heir in opposition to a Targaryen woman, repeating at least a part of the scenery that led Westeros to the Dance of Dragons.

Aegon and Daenerys are bound to become enemies because of their own ambitions. I don’t see Dany accepting him as a suitor or even the rightful heir. She doesn’t need Aegon to take Westeros and a queen without a king is, historically speaking, more powerful.

Everything said about Aegon can also be applied to Jon once his true parentage is revealed. Jon and Daenerys are a threat to each other and only one will survive this.

“The greatest danger of all, however, comes from the north, from the icy wastes beyond the Wall, where half-forgotten demons out of legend, the inhuman others, raise cold legions of the undead and the neverborn and prepare to ride down on the winds of winter to extinguish everything that we would call "life." The only thing that stands between the Seven Kingdoms and an endless night is the Wall, and a handful of men in black called the Night's Watch. Their story will be [sic] heart of my third volume, The Winds of Winter. The final battle will also draw together characters and plot threads left from the first two books and resolve all in one huge climax.”

The third and greatest danger also remains just the same. The Others are still the core of the last book and the major battle. There isn’t much to elaborate on in this part except for the title of what was supposed to be the last book, The Winds of Winter.

I don’t think A Dream of Spring will be some sort of extended epilogue, but most of the action and conflict should take part during The Winds of Winter. At the very least the center of the whole debate will be both the North, with all the plots there, and what lies beyond the Wall.

“The thirteen chapters on hand should give you a notion as to my narrative strategy. All three books will feature a complex mosaic of inter-cutting points-of-view among various of my large and diverse cast of players. The cast will not always remain the same. Old characters will die, and new ones will be introduced. Some of the fatalities will include sympathetic viewpoint characters. I want the reader to feel that no one is ever completely safe, not even the characters who seem to be the heroes. The suspense always ratchets up a notch when you know that any character can die at any time.”

Needless to say anything about this. The books are well-known for these hallmarks. Now we are getting to the juicy part.

“Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.”

I would like to make a point here. The five characters will grow from children to adults, changing the world and themselves in the process.

Although I believe that Martin made a bit of a mess in which concerns the characters’ ages, I think we can understand that the characters will not only be forced to act like adults, but also will be perceived as such by those around them and given positions of power or leadership.

Specifically in which concerns the female characters, both Daenerys and Arya will be perceived as adult women by Westerosi society and this is important for several reasons, mainly in that being an adult noblewoman is a relevant component to form political alliances via marriage. In Arya’s case in particular, it reinforces the idea that she won’t be a nine year old girl forever. This impacts her relevance in the political game (something people usually overlook or ignore) and also makes it possible for Arya to have romantic interests.

“This is going to be (I hope) quite an epic. Epic in its scale, epic in its action, and epic in its length. I see all three volumes as big books, running about 700 to 800 manuscript pages, so things are just barely getting underway in the thirteen chapters I've sent you.”

Can anyone say it isn’t an epic? Sometimes I wish it wasn’t so intense so the books would come earlier, but here we are.

“I have quite a clear notion of how the story is going to unfold in the first volume, A Game of Thrones. Things will get a lot worse for the poor Starks before they get better, I'm afraid. Lord Eddard Stark and his wife Catelyn Tully are both doomed, and will perish at the hands of their enemies. Ned will discover what happened to his friend Jon Arryn, [unclear] can act on his knowledge [unclear] will have an unfortunate accident, and the throne will [unclear] to [unclear] and brutal [unclear] Joffrey [unclear] still a minor. Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Arya escape back to Winterfell.”

Here we have proof that Ned and Catelyn were doomed from the start. Basically everything in this paragraph happened, even the part in which Ned helps Arya to escape by giving her position to Yoren. The only problem is that Arya never reached Winterfell and her mother had left the capital before Ned was arrested. Also the part that says that “things will get much worse for the poor Starks before they get better” makes me think that it’s quite clear that the Starks (or some of them) are the main protagonists of this story.

Why am I saying the Starks (or some of them) are the main heroes? Because being a charismatic character, created with the intention of getting the readers’ sympathy, isn’t necessarily what makes this character a protagonist. You can like whoever you want in the story, this doesn’t make a secondary character a main character, nor does it make a likable character the ‘hero’. The structure of the story and who are the main players is already given.

“Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue. Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Arya, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.”

Tyrion and Sansa were set to be the ones with dubious loyalties to their families. This also happened with slight differences. Tyrion befriends Jon and is somewhat sympathetic to Sansa and Bran. Sansa didn’t marry Joffrey, but she did choose him over her own family the moment she went to Cersei to tell her Ned’s plans to get Sansa and Arya out of the capital. This might or might not indicate that she will have the chance to repent and atone for this, but her dubious loyalty is consolidated. Also Sansa has no children so far.

“Young Bran will come out of his coma, after a strange prophetic dream, only to discover that he will never walk again. He will turn to magic, at first in the hope of restoring his legs, but later for its own sake. When his father Eddard Stark is executed, Bran will see the shape of doom descending on all of them, but nothing he can say will stop his brother Robb from calling the banners in rebellion. All the north will be inflamed by war. Robb will win several splendid victories, and maim Joffrey Baratheon on the battlefield, but in the end he will not be able to stand against Jaime and Tyrion Lannister and their allies. Robb Stark will die in battle, and Tyrion Lannister will besiege and burn Winterfell.”

Bran’s arc is pretty much the same. We saw all of these things happen to him. The biggest change is in Robb’s part and even so most of it remains untouched. Robb did win splendid victories and in the books he even strategically beats both Jaime and Tyrion. What changed is that Robb and Joffrey never fought each other personally. Also Robb’s death was not on the battlefield but during the Red Wedding and Tyrion wasn't the one to sack Winterfell and burn it.

Tyrion’s first act of explicit villainy in the outline was transferred to Houses Bolton and Frey with participation of Theon Greyjoy. Still it was all part of the Lannisters’ plot and it was executed by their allies.

“Jon Snow, the bastard, will remain in the far north. He will mature into a ranger of great daring, and ultimately will succeed his uncle as the commander of the Night's Watch. When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Arya. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. Arya will be more forgiving ... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.”

Here we have some changes. What doesn’t change is that Jon becomes a member of the Night’s Watch and ultimately ascends to the position of Lord Commander. Benjen is a famous member of the Night’s Watch and I believe he was the first choice to take the position of Lord Commander after Mormont, but Ben’s disappearance accelerated Jon’s ascension.

Catelyn and Arya never fled Winterfell, since their paths had already taken them somewhere else, but Bran did and his first impulse is to go to the Wall. Given the fact that the three eyed raven calls him, Bran’s magical journey leads him to go beyond the Wall before he can be reunited with Jon.

Arya and Cat had completely different journeys, or at least partially. Cat seeks her eldest son and stays by Robb’s side during his campaign. Arya, on the other hand, is stranded all over the Riverlands trying to find her way to either Winterfell or the Wall, although she explicitly says that she prefers to go to Wall, where she can find Jon. There was a clear intention to send both Bran and Arya to the Wall, but as the story progressed this decision might have been abandoned temporarily.

Thanks to his vows, Jon can’t take part in the realm’s politics. When news of Ned’s fate arrive at the Wall, Jon is devastated by the impossibility to help his family and fight side by side with Robb. Jon’s moral boundaries and his code of honor become a huge issue for him in the books, and they are tested the most whenever his family is involved. This seems to be his main dilemma in the outline as well.

Jon’s relationship with his family is also ambiguous in some aspects, especially when it’s revealed that his greatest dream since he was young was to be the Lord of Winterfell. This implies a level of rivalry and envy of his true born siblings. Jon repressed these feelings as much as he could out of love for the Starks.

Now I’ll make some guesses here, I don’t think it’s impossible for Bran and Jon to have some bitter estrangement between them, but it won’t be because of the Night’s Watch: If Jon is released from his vows once he is resurrected and takes back Winterfell along with the titles, it will undoubtedly lead to a succession crisis involving not only rights of conquest but also Robb’s will. Bran’s rights are directly affected in this scenario and, unlike the show, Bran never once questioned his position as Robb’s heir. It’s not impossible to imagine that factions will gather behind both claimants and this can cause another crisis in the North and bitterness between brothers in a moment when union is crucial.

Arya has a close relationship with both Bran and Jon and she is someone both of them feel inclined to listen to. I think Arya will be the bridge between them and the one to diplomatically avoid a rupture in the North, but it doesn’t mean the bitterness between Bran and Jon will disappear.

Now we reach the hugest taboo of the outline and the main reason why people claim “it’s no longer relevant” or that “Martin changed his mind”. Jon and Arya falling in love.

Let’s get one thing very clear, Jon and Arya already love each other in the books. This is not my opinion, this is the literal text.

Jon’s best friend was Robb and still Jon affirms that he missed Arya the most. Just go back to the books and count how many times and how affectionately they think of each other. They repeatedly say how they miss finishing each other’s sentences and how Jon loves to mess Arya’s hair. “The memory of her laughter kept him warm during the long journey north.” and “Needle was Jon Snow’s smile” are two small quotes that speak volumes of how deep this love is.

Am I saying this is a romantic sort of love? No. I’m not saying this. What I’m doing is highlighting the fact that this particular relationship stands out as one of the strongest (if not the strongest) bond in the books to the point where it’s not even questionable that Jon and Arya love each other the most. It’s strong enough to make Jon forsake his vows and decide to march to Winterfell to rescue a girl he thinks to be Arya. It’s strong enough to make Arya lie to Ned because she would never betray Jon.

Jon didn’t break his vows for any other sibling, no matter how much he wanted to, but he did it to save whom he thought was Arya. His love for her is the cause of Jon’s death in the books. He committed treason the moment he received the pink letter and decided to march against Ramsay Bolton. Jon’s last thought is “stick’em with the pointy end”.

I think it’s safe to assume that Jon will be resurrected and Melissandre is probably the one to perform the ritual. We already know that resurrections have some side effects in the asoiaf universe, the most evident one being some sort of obsessive thought that keeps guiding the resurrected’s actions (like Beric Dondarrion’s obsession with keeping the king’s peace, and Lady Stoneheart killing Freys to avenge Robb’s death). Jon’s last thought was directly related to Arya and there’s no other possible interpretation. His last thought is likely to become his obsession.

I also think it’s safe to say that Jon’s memory will stay inside Ghost at least for a while and we will have to wait and see the effects that will have on Jon’s personality once he comes back to life.

Varamir said that Ghost would be a second life fit for a king and I think this is a clear foreshadowing of Jon’s true identity. There are also some other aspects of wolf pack dynamics that deserve some consideration: Wolves are social animals that have hierarchy and well divided roles inside the pack and although Ghost is a lonely wolf that was separated from his original group, it would only take one female for him to start his own pack. Curiously Nymeria is an alpha female already, leading a pack of regular wolves, but she rejects her smaller cousins as potential mates. Ghost and Nymeria are the alpha male and female of a new pack. The wolves of Winterfell will come back; stronger and more dangerous.

I think all of these elements will play a significant role in how Jon and Arya’s love will change once they are reunited. It won’t be immediate, but as the story goes the sexual tension will become evident. Jon’s perception of Arya as a sister will be blurred as a teenage Arya starts to see him as a love interest. At this point Arya will already be perceived as an adult woman according to Westerosi society, as I pointed out before. My guess is that she will be close to Daenerys’ age when she married Drogo. I’m not judging if this is right or wrong by our own moral standards. What I’m saying is that it’s acceptable in the world created by GRRM.

As the outline says, their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until Jon’s true parentage is revealed. This necessarily implies that: 1) they are not siblings; 2) their passion brings a lot of moral issues and they are not comfortable with it; 3) their agony has an end when Jon’s parentage is revealed. Jon’s true parentage is a moral free pass for them and, at least from what we can read in the outline, this is more relevant than any potential succession rights.

This moral free pass wouldn’t be applied in a romantic relationship between Jon and Daenerys for example. It would actually have the opposite effect, giving Jon reason to question his moral choices and torment himself with doubts. This plot point is not applicable to Sansa either, mostly because Sansa and Jon don’t have a close relationship that’s already been established. They have a distant one and don’t even think much about each other. The whole point of Jon and Arya’s strong bond is to lay the foundations for a romance, establishing a relationship based on love, mutual loyalty and respect.

Do we have any indication that Jon and Arya’s romance was scrapped based on the books? No. Do we have any conclusive evidence in the text that Arya was replaced by any other female character? No. Why do I think Jon and Arya are endgame? Because we have only two books left and a lot of events that must be covered by them. It’s way easier to use an already established loving relationship with 5 books of consistent development and make it a romantic one (and make it believable as an epic romance because all the dramatic elements are already there), than to write a brand new one from scratch and make the reader believe that this is the ultimate love story.

“Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Arya's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others.”

Catelyn was meant to be killed by the Others. It’s not hard to conclude that she would have become one of them. The major difference from the outline to the books is that Catelyn died elsewhere, however she was brought back to life by fire magic as Lady Stoneheart. I can also see Bran and Arya fighting against the Others with the help of their direwolves in the event of a great battle by the end of the books. There’s nothing indicating that this part was cut, it just hasn’t happened yet.

“Over across the narrow sea, Daenerys Targaryen will discover that her new husband, the Dothraki Khal Drogo, has little interest in invading the Seven Kingdoms, much to her brother's frustration. When Viserys presses his claims past the point of tact or wisdom, Khal Drogo will finally grow annoyed and kill him out of hand, eliminating the Targaryen pretender and leaving Daenerys as the last of her line. Danerys [sic] will bide her time, but she will not forget. When the moment is right, she will kill her husband to avenge her brother, and then flee with a trusted friend into the wilderness beyond Vaes Dothrak. There, hunted by [unclear] of her life, she stumbles on a [something about dragon eggs] a young dragon will give Daenerys [unclear] bend [unclear] to her will. Then she begins to plan for her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms.”

Daenerys’ arc here didn’t change much. What changed was her motivation to kill Drogo and how she gets the dragons. Everything else that happens to her since the second book is her preparing to invade Westeros.

“Tyrion Lannister will continue to travel, to plot, and to play the game of thrones, finally removing his nephew Joffrey in disgust at the boy king's brutality. Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders. Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Arya Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow.”

There’s only one character that was replaced, I think. The Jaime Lannister of the outline seems to have been replaced by Cersei in the books, and it makes much more sense. The Baratheons are briefly mentioned and we know Joffrey to be officially one. We know that Tyrion and Jaime are Lannisters and that Tyrion and Jaime are brothers. Unless Joffrey’s official father was a Lannister, Jaime would have no place in the line of succession to the throne whatsoever and this is important even when you want to use the rights of conquest. Cersei could have one, by becoming her son’s heiress in case there’s no one else left.

Also, although Sansa didn’t marry Joffrey, her wedding to Tyrion still makes her a Lannister and ties her to the enemy. Her loyalty was put to the test because of Joffrey, but her ties to the Lannisters were consolidated with Tyrion. Her arc is still in place. Her marriage wasn’t declared null so far and I don’t think it will happen anytime soon. As far as public knowledge goes, Sansa is Lady Lannister.

As for the love triangle Jon Snow x Tyrion x Arya, I don’t think it’s impossible at all. While it’s true that so far Tyrion hasn't interacted with Arya and I doubt he even remembers her face from the short time he stayed at Winterfell, the Arya he will eventually meet will be an educated young woman that had many intriguing experiences in Braavos, is very charismatic and makes friends with everyone and anyone. Tyrion, being a man profoundly affected by his physical condition would gravitate towards her. I don’t think it’s hard to imagine him falling for someone capable of seeing him as an individual as Arya is.

There’s also an argument to be made that this love triangle might have been replaced by Ramsay x Arya x Jon in some ways. After all Tyrion didn’t burn Winterfell, Ramsay did. He also married a fake Arya (Jeyne Poole) to claim Winterfell in her name, leading to a violent rivalry between Ramsay and Jon.

This plot point might have just been either altered to replace Tyrion with Ramsay, or it hasn’t happened yet.

“[The next graph is blocked out.]

But that's the second book ...

I hope you will find some editors who are as excited about all of this as I am. Feel free to share this letter with anyone who wants to know how the story will go.

All best,

George R.R. Martin”

With everything said so far we can conclude a few things:

1) The three major conflicts remain the same.

2) Ned, Cat, Robb, Viserys and Drogo’s fate didn’t change.

3) Bran still went through a coma and can’t walk anymore. He also developed magical abilities. An eventual strained relationship with Jon is still possible.

4) Tyrion and Sansa’s dubious loyalties to their families weren't removed from the books and Sansa still got tied to the enemy via marriage, although to a different character.

5) Tyrion continues to travel, to plot, and to play the game of thrones. He didn’t kill Joffrey, but was blamed for it anyway. Eventually he will make alliances with enemies of his house.

6) Jon joined the Night’s Watch and became Lord Commander. His vows are constantly challenged, especially when his family is endangered. His incapacity to help them keeps torturing him and in the books it leads to his death.

7) Jon and Arya share a strong bond, based on love, mutual trust and loyalty, and respect. This relationship remains one of the most important ones in the books. This relationship was consistently developed throughout the 5 books already published and turning it into a romantic one is still possible.

8) Jon’s true parentage is super relevant.

9) Daenerys’ arc didn’t change.

10) The love triangle Jon x Arya x Tyrion was either replaced by Jon x FArya x Ramsay, or could still happen in its original form once Tyrion and Arya have the chance to interact with each other.

This was my lengthy analysis of the original outline and why I think it’s still valid. I hope you enjoyed it.

#ASoIaF #origial outline #waterstone letter #a song of ice and fire #jon and arya #jon x arya #jon/arya #jonrya #jonarya #meta

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virtchandmoir · 5 years

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How do Canadian Olympians make a career off a gold medal? Social Sharing

The secret to turning a moment on the field of play into a successful, post-athletic career

September 4, 2019

Ice dancer Tessa Virtue is one of Canada's most successful athletes both on and off the ice. (Geoff Robins/The Canadian Press)

Jon Montgomery walking through Whistler, B.C., with a pitch of beer in hand. Mark McMorris stepping onto the Olympic podium, just weeks after breaking a rib. Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir sticking a final pose, proving a picture-perfect long program does exist.

The common ground? These Canadian Olympic moments transformed into careers off the field of play.

Montgomery now hosts a TV show. Virtue and McMorris cashed in with a plethora of sponsorship and business deals.

But what about the hundreds of other Canadian Olympians? In today's climate, where social media and sponsorship opportunities have skyrocketed, how does an athlete cash in on a medal, particularly gold?

It seems that making that happen starts well before the Games begin.

"Storytelling is the currency of the Games," says Russell Reimer, president of Manifesto Sport Management, a company that manages Olympic, professional, and action sports athletes amongst other branding and content ventures. "In the same way you would put in all the time, mostly in anonymity, to train for your sport, you also have to put that level of care and time into what it is you want to become and telling your story going into the Games."

Virtue with Canadian athlete agent Russell Reimer.

Secrets to developing post-athletic success

Reimer's company represents several of the most successful Canadian Olympians — names like Virtue, McMorris, Montgomery, hockey player Hayley Wickenheiser and sprinter Aaron Brown.

Before founding Manifesto, Reimer was a producer with NBC at the Sydney and Salt Lake City Olympics. There he noticed all athletes faced the same challenges of cyclical interest, partners that weren't committed and marketing rights that fell into increasingly narrow windows.

It's the same issues most athletes face today.

He also noticed the untapped business of bridging an athlete's story and marketing opportunities. And since all Olympians are there to win medals, it's what an athlete stands for that separates them from the crowd and makes them attractive to sponsors.

"I think from an Olympic perspective you get to tap into a more emotional connection than you maybe could with other sports," says Matt McGlyyn, vice president of brand marketing at Royal Bank of Canada [RBC], a Canadian national team sponsor since 1947.

"Performance always goes up and down, but we always stay focused on athletes that have a strong and organic connection to our brand."

Building a sellable brand is a big ask from athletes, considering they're already working to be among the best in the world at their sport.

But so is every other athlete.

"Zero times an Olympic gold medal is zero," Reimer says. "You should have no expectation of a commercial outcome if you aren't willing to do the work and storytelling…before the Games."

Of course, there are outliers. Think Penny Oleksiak or Andre De Grasse; two relatively unknown Canadians who turned Olympic performances into immediate success after the 2016 Rio Olympics. Both are Canadian red carpet staples with brand partnerships relevant to their sports — Vichy Canada for Oleksiak and Puma for De Grasse.

But coming into a Games with a defined mission statement, or being shrewd enough to capitalize on the attention is how a pitcher of beer multiplies a skeleton gold medal into a hosting gig on national TV.

"All you have to do is ask yourself a tough question about why [you're doing this], what your deepest motivation was," Reimer says. "And if you say something compelling in the moment you have Canada's attention, the United States' attention. You have created yourself a commercial and career opportunity."

McMorris set the tone, Virtue doing it best

Take McMorris for example.

"He's had a camera with him since he was eight years old," Reimer says of the Canadian snowboarder. "And we were able to tell really great stories about Mark and we took the time to construct a real critical path of content going into the 2014 Games."

McMorris was also a trailblazer in social media. He was named most socially engaged Olympian at Sochi 2014 by the Sport Business Journal and Hookit, a sport sponsorship analytics platform.

It didn't hurt that McMorris has won enough X Games medals to be compared with American legend Shaun White. But when the comparison happened, McMorris' story and content were primed and ready for when people Googled his name.

But right now, Reimer says the Canadian athlete doing it best is Virtue, now a figure skating legend.

"When you see the transition she's made, it's really a massive leap — a leap that hasn't taken place in Canada from success on ice or snow to commercial success," he says.

Since competing in her final Olympic Games in 2018, Virtue's personal brand has aligned with endless high-profile companies: Nivea, Adidas, and MAC Cosmetics to name a few. She's appeared on shows like Mr. D and MasterChef Canada. Rock The Rink, a skating exhibition, starts its Canadian tour this fall with Virtue at the centre of the show.

All this happened post-Pyeongchang, her third and final Olympic cycle, and arguably, her most successful.

"I was clear about my mission," Virtue said. "And my goal was not to be a well-known figure in Pyeongchang, my goal was to be the best ice dancer in the world."

That meant turning down sponsorship and media opportunities to focus on training. But Virtue found an effective way to stay visible and tell her story: Instagram.

Virtue wasn't even on the app in Sochi 2014: her first post was the following summer. But through videos of practices and choreography sessions, alongside thoughtfully curated posts reflecting her personal and professional mission statements, Virtue built a following that grew by more than 200 per cent in Pyeongchang.

Virtue wants all her business relationships and ventures to reflect her bottom line, which is inspiring young girls and women while fostering a supportive network where people can strive to be the best versions of themselves.

"There's no easy way to the top of anything, but it's a lot of hard work and I feel maybe I have the confidence in that recipe, or the confidence in myself," Virtue says. "So maybe it's an investment in myself and getting back to authenticity, just trusting in my story and who I am to the core."

And that all comes down to what Reimer says is the bottom line.

"She's the model for how you build enduring appeal… What matters is the story."

—CBC Sports

#tessa #off ice #interview: cbc #more of a supporting role in here

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carbonitekisses · 4 years

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I’ll Be Coming For Your Love, Okay? (final chapter)

[AN: After season eight I, like many others haha, had massive writer’s block. It’s been a while since I posted (both on AO3 and tumblr). Anyways, I started this story before I had a tumblr so the last chapter of this fic is the only one on here. If a reincarnation/time travel-esque AU interests you, you can read the other five chapters on AO3 :)]

Chapter summary: Willas walks ahead and Sansa hesitates before following suit. Normally Sansa would stop by and chat for a bit with Jeyne at the reception desk but she doesn't want to interrupt. She's ready to walk by and head straight to her office when Jeyne calls out her name in obvious relief.

Frowning for the first time today, Sansa redirects her route. The man Jeyne had been speaking to turns around to face her so quickly it's almost comical.

She would laugh to herself but then she see his face. For a second (or two or three...) Sansa's reality shatters before piecing itself back together into a kaleidoscope of bright colors and pure light.

Also on AO3

Bliss, he thinks, this is pure bliss. Her lips upon my lips, her breath mixing with mine. What need do I have for food or water when she is here? When she kisses me like she remembers?

“Let me never wake.”

“You’re not dreaming, love,” Sansa murmurs, and Jon opens his eyes to something he had resigned himself to never again see on her face. Recognition. Love. Joy.

Could it be true or will he wake to find her gone, her side of the bed empty and cold like it has been for the past year? Jon knows he wouldn't be able to survive if she were to leave him again. One time was one time too many. Each day had been filled with duty and routine until Ghost dragged him to the heart tree two days ago. The world seemed to right itself when he saw her laying on the grass before the heart tree. For the first time in a year Jon felt whole again.

“Are you,” Jon tries to swallow past the hope that chokes him, “are you here? Are you here, back with me?” His hands slowly, shaking, reach to hold her face. “Have you come back to me, dear heart?”

”Yes, yes, yes.” With each affirmation she brings herself closer to him, lifting her dress until she’s able to straddle his thighs. His hands carefully wander to rest on her waist. It's a pleasure like no other to simply have her familiar weight atop him. “I was here—I was always here. It was strange. I felt trapped within what I knew to be my own body. And after the vision with the blinding light, somehow, the other presence was gone. And it was only me.

“I don’t know how I am alive, how I am home. All I know—” She takes his hand and brings it to her lips, kissing the scarred fingertips “—is that I am grateful to be with you once more. It's a blessing, it must be.” His hand remains encased in her soft grasp, resting in the space between them. “After all we have lost the gods owe us this much.”

Her gratitude reminds Jon that it is because of him that she ever left the world of the living. It was my own hands that killed her, he pulls his hand away from hers in self-disgust, I killed her.

"If I hadn't plunged Longclaw through your heart... Forgive me, love." Jon shakes his head in anger. He is greedy asking for forgiveness. He is selfish. "Forgive me, forgive me—"

Sansa cuts him off. "No more. You don't need my forgiveness, Jon. If you hadn’t killed me the world of the living would have ceased to exist. Our family and our people would have fallen."

Jon is inclined to disagree. It must show on his face that he is more than willing to argue because Sansa pulls his face to hers and kisses him wildly, leaving him no air with which to voice his disagreement.

“There’s nothing to forgive, Jon," she repeats once more. Her fingers nimbly unclasp the cloak she made for him so many moons ago. They pause and wander to the jerkin where grey fabric peeks out from underneath. A watery sob leaves her as she takes out the favor she had made for him before he left for war. It is almost weightless, so thin and worn it has become. The direwolves and winter roses haven't lost their color and Sansa looks at it in awe. "You kept it... after all this time."

"Everyday. Not once could I bear to keep it anywhere else but near my heart."

And it's true. The square piece of fabric, lovingly stitched with Sansa's own hand, had been a poor replacement of his wife. Nevertheless, it gave him hope. Hope that perhaps the red priestess was right. That some day Sansa would return to him.

And now she's here in his arms.

Warm. Safe. Alive.

He brings his forehead against hers. Shares the air with her. He has been relieved of an emotional weight he has carried ever since he saw her blood paint the snow. "Never leave me again." He kisses her, drowns in the mere fact that she is here. Here, here, here. The next word comes out strangled and heavy. "Please."

Strong, kind, lovely Sansa Stark presses her smiling lips to the corner of his own. "I love you. As long as you love me—"

"Always." In life and in death. In whatever exists in between and beyond.

"Always is a long time."

"Always is not long enough. Not for us."

The truth. A spark. Firelight catches and dances in her hair. Sansa launches forward and takes him. He gives himself willingly. She undoes the lacing of his jerkin while her hips begin to move in a rhythm that leaves Jon completely in surrender. Any and all thoughts of books, visions, and gods of light flee into the night. “Always,” she whispers, she prays. His love, his wife, dips her head to kiss slightly underneath his jawline, whispering a request along her trail of kisses. He hardens underneath her touch. It's been so long, so very long.

“I’ve missed you, husband. I only ask you to love me... Love me, Jon.”

And so he does.

Sansa's eyelids refuse to lift under the weight of sleep. The last vestiges of a dream cling to her memory. Cold, cold snow... a fire... a man... a name. J-Jo—hmm. Joe? Jonas? Joseph? Her motor skills finally succeed in opening her eyes to the world. It definitely started with a “J”. Joel? I definitely wasn't dreaming about Joffrey. I'm sure of that, at least.

The muscles in her neck strain and her bones creak in protest as she makes to stand up from the couch. Disoriented. That's how she is feeling. Unbalanced, too, if her trembling knees are anything to go by. Last night...what happened last night? If it were the weekend she would chalk it up to a hangover but it's Friday morning and she didn't go out last night.

Sansa picks up a book from off the floor. She turns it around to look at the cover. A man and a woman are embracing underneath a heart tree. She vaguely remembers the book. it feels different... even if I can't remember much of it right now. Did she fall asleep trying to read this? Sansa quickly thumbs through ink-filled pages, trying to recollect something, anything, about it.

"Where did—Oh!" Sansa recoils as her mind registers the time being displayed on her watch. She woke up later than usual, having seemingly forgotten to turn on her alarm last night. An hour. She has an hour to shower, change, and get to work. Pressed for time, she puts the book back into its manila envelope and then into her work bag along with her reading glasses.

She'll work out the mystery book once she gets to her office.

Without wasting any more time Sansa absentmindedly starts her favorite playlist on Spotify. Mornings are better with music.

Take on Me by a-ha starts to play.

Sansa groans.

Here we go again.

The morning sun melts the small crumbs of her dream into oblivion until Sansa forgets that she even dreamed at all.

Things are looking up for Sansa Stark after such a rough morning. And if the air feels cleaner, or time itself feels fresher... Well, Sansa won’t be the one to complain. Although, the time constraint did mean she was unable to make herself her usual cup of coffee. That's one thing I will allow myself to complain about.

Still, good-naturedly, Sansa steps into the brownstone building that is Grand Maester Publishing. It feels good to be here—on time!—as she greets the coworkers she passes with a smile and a hello. The elevator ride to the third floor is full of pleasant chatter with Willas, a fellow editor who just learned that a book he worked on will soon be turned into a feature film.

"How exciting!" The elevator door dings open and they step out and into the lobby. "I'm assuming there will be a reissue with cover art relevant to the film?"

"Most likely; I actually have a meeting today with the author." He checks his watch. Behind him, Sansa sees that Jeyne isn't alone at the reception desk. Though she can only see his back she can tell the man is stressed and agitated. Willas speaks and she looks back at him. "I'll let you know how it goes later, yeah?"

"Please do."

Willas walks ahead and Sansa hesitates before following suit. Normally Sansa would stop by and chat for a bit with Jeyne but she doesn't want to interrupt. She's ready to walk by and head straight to her office when Jeyne calls out her name in obvious relief.

Frowning for the first time today, Sansa redirects her route. The man Jeyne had been speaking to turns around to face her so quickly it's almost comical.

She swallows and tears her eyes away from the man and looks at her friend instead. "Hi, Jeyne. Do you need me?"

Seven save me. I know I'm a romantic but fuck I'm being overdramatic. Goosebumps litter her skin. He's not even that good looking. She tries to discreetly look at him once more. She fails; he was already looking at her. Okay, that's a lie. He's handsome. Beautiful, even. But still. Keep it in your pants, Sansa Stark. Sansa flushes and hopes that whatever Jeyne needs her for is resolved quickly.

Jeyne looks apologetically at the stranger. She gets right to the point. "Sansa, do you have the manila envelope that I dropped off at your office yesterday?"

Oh, so she was the one who delivered this to my office. Well, that's one mystery solved.

"Yes, it's in my bag." She takes it out and keeps a firm grip on it; an oddly possessive feeling washes over her. The man beside her slumps in, what she can only describe as, relief when he sees the envelope. Confused by his reaction she asks Jeyne, "Why?"

The grey-eyed man answers instead, speaking for the first time. His voice reminds her of smoke and dark chocolate. "That envelope, it's mine."

Sansa stands there dumbly, speechless. Wait. What?

"I am so sorry for the mixup." Jeyne's hands are twining and twisting around each other. Her friend and coworker is such a gentle and caring person. She loathes causing problems or inconveniences for others. "I thought the envelope was addressed to Sansa. It was an honest mistake, I swear."

Apparently her distress is evident enough that even the owner of the book notices. His face softens, the stress that furrowed his brow dissipates, and he offers Jeyne an awkward, comforting smile, "I'm sorry for worrying you so much." He turns to look at Sansa. "Honestly, it's my fault. If I hadn't been in such a hurry and written Sam's name more legibly this wouldn't have happened."

At this remark, Sansa looks down at the scrawl on the envelope. Hm. Everything after the S is messy. If she scrutinizes the writing she can kind of make out the name. "Sam Tarly? The literary agent? That's who this was meant for?"

"The one and only," he says with a grin that speaks of pride. "I'm to meet with him later to discuss the book."

The book isn't hers. It wasn't meant for her. She has no right to it. And still, it feels wrong to let it go. Wrong, wrong, wrong. But return it she must.

Just then a woman comes up to the receptionist's desk, and Jeyne whispers an apology before turning away from them to attend to the woman. She and the man with the handsome voice move away to let Jeyne work.

Her arm is stiff as she finally hands over the book to its rightful owner.

Their fingers touch briefly and Sansa nearly drops the envelope. Ridiculous. Utterly RIDICULOUS. Be cool, woman! He doesn't seem to notice but the genuinely happy smile he grants her throws her into a tizzy again. Who does this man think he is, affecting her in such a way?

"I'm being all sorts of rude today, I never even introduced myself." He holds out a hand. It hangs, waiting in the space between them. "I'm Jon Snow."

Cautiously, she places her hand in his. She knows it's ludicrous but if she had to describe his touch she would describe it as warm, safe, and alive.

"Nice to meet you, Jon Snow." His name tastes sweet and rich. "I'm Sansa Stark."

He smiles again, "Sansa Stark." She thinks he makes her name sound sweet and rich, too. "A pretty name." He grimaces and his ears turn red. "I didn't mean—uh, I'm sorry. It is a nice name. I just—" He's flustered and it's a new side to him she hasn't seen yet. It's endearing, really. He may look broody and mysterious but it's almost comforting to know this stranger, Jon, can be just as awkward as she is.

She can feel herself blushing but pays it no mind. It's a compliment no one has given her before but Sansa likes it. Her name, an old family name, is pretty and it's time someone said so. The corners of her lips upturn into a pleased smile. "Thank you, Jon Snow."

They stand there for a moment just smiling at each other.

There's something here and maybe it is a bit ridiculous to fancy a connection between them but Sansa feels brave.

What if he's not interested in me in that way? What if he already has a girlfriend? What if— No. I'm done with what-ifs. Put on your big girl pants, Sansa. You have to put yourself out there if you want something in life. And if he's already in a relationship, well, one can never have too many friends.

Sansa shifts her weight from one foot to the other. "You said you had a meeting with Sam?"

He clears his throat and promptly answers, "Aye, some time around one. He's not coming in to work until after lunch hours."

"I know this is quite sudden but would you be free to discuss the book with me beforehand? My schedule is clear today and I'm just really interested in the book and would like to learn more about it. I didn't get a chance to read it last night but there's just something about the book itself that really spoke to me." I'm rambling. Sansa cringes internally. It's true that I'm curious about the novel but out of all the times to word vomit... "You don't have to if you don't want to!"

Jon looks surprised at her request. In the couple seconds it takes him to respond Sansa wishes the ground would swallow her whole. It only gets worse when she notices that Jeyne has been supervising their interaction with nothing more than a raised eyebrow.

Surprised he might have been but he answers her with a grin that wrinkles the corner of his grey eyes. "I'd love to."

Jon didn't expect his Friday morning to be like this. Especially not after the anxiety and worry he had felt last night. Nonetheless, he increasingly finds himself grateful for whatever choices or divine power led him here. Here with the increasingly wonderful Sansa Stark.

They've been talking for hours.

She's an editor and has been working with the publishing house for almost five years. Yes, she's from that Stark family but she's not pretentious or snobby at all. That isn't to say that her impeccable manners and obvious upperclass rearing don't intimidate him, if just a little. He's not unaware of the ways of the great houses of Westeros (he may be a bastard but he's a Targaryen bastard) and he can tell there is genuine warmth and interest when she speaks to him.

"I still can't believe you found this at an estate sale and you were practically gifted it by the owner," Sansa's voice is a near whisper and filled with incredulity.

Incredulity has been a latent feeling during their conversation and it all began when they read two names within the book.

They had started off sitting opposite each other at her desk but had quickly transferred to the moderately sized loveseat in her office. It was easier to look over and study the book together this way. It was also easier for Jon to talk to and infatuate himself with the smart redhead sitting next to him.

They're currently reading the last legible section in the book. The writer's husband seems to be on his deathbed and she writes about how she feels her soul will not wait long to be reunited with him once more. Jon has read the book before but he feels as if he is truly reading it for the first time with Sansa, at moments, reading it aloud. He also can't shake the strange feeling that perhaps he had never actually read the book. But that would be unfathomable. Why would he not read a book with words in it?

"Neither can I. If I'm not mistaken this could have been written centuries ago." It's a theory that he has no way to prove (yet) but is uncharacteristically confident in. Sam's expertise will be immeasurable and doubt-breaking. Sansa hands the book back to him, slowly and gently. "Sam's the expert on historical writings so hopefully he'll help me understand just who wrote this. When he worked at the history museum with me he was the one to go to about these sorts of things," Jon fondly remembers how his friend's work docket never seemed to empty. "Even though there were more than ten people in his department."

"I've worked with Sam before—he always finds amazing stories and authors—I'm sure you couldn't find anyone better to help you figure this out." She pauses and uncrosses her legs. "Now, I'm no historian but I am an editor and..." Her eyes land on the book currently being held in his hands. "I think this might be semi-autobiographical. Maybe, quite possibly, written as a diary or a journal. The tone and style is extremely intimate." She hesitates before speaking again and he notices vulnerability bleed into her voice. "The sections that are still legible remind me of how I write in my own."

Years of being extremely socially self-conscious helped him notice how quickly Sansa seemed to regret voicing a personal detail. If he hadn't been looking at her so attentively (she has gorgeous eyes) he wouldn't have noticed it, so adept was she in calming her features. Not wanting to make her feel that her implied trust was misplaced he hummed in gratitude for her professional and personal input. "Huh, that is actually very helpful. It would explain why there seems to be such a lack of details. If this were a diary, written for personal use, it stands to reason the writer wouldn't need to explain things like a commercial writer would." Sansa shows teeth when she smiles. Really smiles. It's warm. He likes it. "Although, it is a bit odd don't you think?"

Coincidence. The word is too small. A word with bigger significance is in order. Fabricated? No, sounds too cold. The editor, with sensibly attractive black heels, blushes and opens her mouth to speak but seems to be in the same predicament as him. Preordained? Now that... sounds almost like destiny. Almost too big.

A crisp, bitingly endearing laugh. "I wasn't sure whether to mention it." It is something Jon has noticed about Sansa. She does not seem to like causing discomfort—be it real or imagined. It is easy to think everyone has this trait. However, Jon's experience with people from all walks of life has proven that to not be the case. "But yes, it's odd. Maybe weird?" She says this like a question they both know the answer to. They do. And Jon laughs. "Okay, definitely weird. I mean, what are the chances that there is both a Sansa and a Jon in the book?"

Almost.

It's probably the strangeness of the situation that made them avoid call the writer by her name. Or to call the husband by his. Because if Jon's theory, and Sansa's hunch, are proven right then that means there existed a Sansa and Jon before them. A Sansa and Jon whose love and life filled countless pages with words handwritten by a woman who thought them worthy of ink and time. Though many of the words have faded or been damaged they still tug at his heart. And Jon would bet it does the same for Sansa.

I feel bubbly, Jon thinks. Bubbly like the feeling of a fizzy drink in his mouth. Like an adventure about to start. Like a newly discovered military artifact that he can't wait to analyze and date. To be frank, Jon has never described anything as bubbly. Yet something about Sansa makes him think it the most appropriate. As a true pessimist, doubt and caution in the name of self-preservation make him lean back a bit from her. He hadn't noticed how close they had gotten. Way to over-exaggerate a moment, bud. She could be in a relationship for all I know.

His pocket vibrates. Sansa had pulled away as well and briefly glances down to the source of the noise. "I take it that's Sam?"

"Probably." Jon pulls his phone out. "Aye, it's him. Says he just arrived at his office."

It's time for him to leave. Sam is here in the building and he should leave before he gets too invested in what could only stay as a pleasant meeting between strangers.

He gets up and picks up his jacket. The book weighs heavy in his hand.

Sansa stands up and smooths down her skirt as she does so. He hadn't noticed but the skirt has pockets that she now puts her hands into. "Tell him I say hello. It's been a while since we bumped into each other." She tucks her hair behind her earring studded ear. "Feel free to let me know what ends up happening with the book."

Is this...hm. If Jon weren't so jaded by the punches of life he would interpret this as an opening to ask for her number. He wants to but a pit of fear gurgles inside him. Rejection. Better to keep my heart safe. Sansa seems like the kind of woman that would ruin him for any other. In all the best worst ways possible.

"Will do." I won't. "It was a true pleasure meeting and spending time with you, Sansa Stark." Was that too formal? Yeah, it was. Goddammit.

"The pleasure was all mine, Jon Snow."

They shake hands one last time and Jon leaves.

Shit.

He immediately walks right back into the warmth of her sunlit office.

It's worth taking a risk. A little bit of optimism never hurt anyone. Sansa hadn't moved but her head snaps up at the sound of his entrance. She's surprised and he's clearly caught her unaware. Her lips part and she takes a step back, bumping into the armrest of the loveseat. Okay, too late to back out now.

"I just realized we didn't exchange business cards." He tries to act cool but is hindered by the struggle of digging through his wallet for a card. "Here, it has both my cell and work numbers. And email." She can read, idiot. Way to point out the obvious.

Sansa takes it. She studies it for a bit and Jon knows he visibly relaxes when she meets his eyes with a smile. She turns on her heels and grabs her own card from a clear business card holder sitting on the edge of her desk.

"Here. Mine also has both my cell and work numbers." Her eyes are glittering with what he can confidently describe as mischief. "And email."

The card design is elegant and sleek. And sure enough her cell number is on there.

"Thanks. I'll.. text you, after I meet with Sam." Might as well go all the way. "Or if you're free after work we could go get coffee? A drink? Let you know what Sam could figure out."

"I'd like that!" She uncrosses her arms and stands leans her weight to the left. "And, yes, I'm free tonight."

"Well, guess I'll see you later, Sansa Stark."

"Sansa." She rolls her eyes, minutely, in good humor. "Just Sansa."

"I'll see you later, Sansa."

"See you later, Jon."

Jon waves at her and leaves; he's kept Sam waiting long enough. He's practically jogging to Sam's office. People are moving out of the way and giving him odd looks. It's probably because he's grinning so wide he must look manic. Jon doesn't know what the future may bring but he knows that Sansa is someone worth knowing and learning more of. Simply stated, he likes her. Something about her calls out to him. It's beyond physical attraction. It's... it's something he caught glimpses of when she smiled, when she fidgeted with the ring on her middle finger, when her hair reflected the sunlight coming in from her large office window.

Jon doesn't even have both feet in Sam's office before his friend says, "What happened? Why are you smiling like that?"

"Nothing." It's an obvious lie. His lips stretch more and it hurts. But he can't stop smiling. "Ready to solve this mystery?"

#season eight of GoT really did a number on me lol #jonsa #jonsa fic #jonsafic #myfic #actually jonsa #i'll be coming for your love okay?

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rainhadaenerys · 5 years

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Anti Political Jon Compilation

Political Jon theory is a theory that leaves me baffled sometimes. Because there is so much stuff going against it, and people still insist that it’s true. So I decided to make a compilation of all the evidences against this theory: scenes from the show, interviews, and scripts. If I forgot an interview or an argument that you feel is relevant, feel free to add.

"HE LOVED HER AND SHE LOVED HIM”

To me this line proves that Jon loves Dany. There’s no way to refute it. If Bran was talking about Jon and Dany, you could use the argument that he’s an unreliable narrator. I’ve seen it a lot amongst believers of Political Jon: if a character says that Jon loves Dany, or that Jon was looking at Dany, like Tyrion and Davos do, they’ll say that they are unreliable narrators. And this could be true for Tyrion and Davos, they could be wrong about Jon loving Dany. But Bran was talking about Rhaegar and Lyanna. He can’t be wrong about Dany and Jon because he was not talking about them. Placing this line over Jon and Daenerys was a decision made by the show, it’s the editing of the show that is explicitly telling us that Jon and Dany love each other. And the editing of the show is not an unreliable narrator, it’s the omniscient narrator that’s telling us this..

INTERVIEWS

We have many interviews saying that Jon loves Dany, and that their relationship is an important part of the show:

We built in a moment between Kit and Emilia where they stopped for a moment and looked into each other's eyes. The intention from my point of view, and their point of view too, is that they're driven by passion into this. They don't even fully understand what it's all about and what the consequences of it are. They really can't stop themselves. It's almost destiny that's bringing them together. There's a moment where they're like, "Are we actually going to continue doing this? Are we actually doing this?" And they can't stop themselves. – Jeremy Podeswa

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/game-thrones-season-7-finale-secrets-director-jeremy-podeswa-interview-1033563

“But the real story within the story, was actually what was going on with their eyes and what’s happening — there’s an understanding between them that even though they know in some part of them that they shouldn’t really be doing this, they cannot not do it,” he added. “There’s some element of destiny that’s brought them together, and they can’t fight it.” – Jeremy Podeswa

https://www.indiewire.com/2017/08/game-of-thrones-finale-daenerys-jon-snow-dragon-jeremy-podeswa-hbo-1201870908/

Podeswa is not talking about an unrequited love/passion in these interviews. He uses “they”, he’s talking about both Jon and Dany. So Jon can’t stop himself from being with Dany.

We were in Malta shooting episode ten of the first season, and the show wasn't a big deal yet and we weren't being very secretive because nobody cared yet, and [Martin] just sort of mentioned in passing, "Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow" and at the time I thought, "Really? I thought it was about Sean Bean and Robb Stark?"

But he knew from the very beginning where he was driving and now we're starting to see that come to fruition. We know that it's circling tighter and tighter on Dany and Jon and their partnership is starting to form, you know, "fire and ice." – Alan Taylor

These two interviews are always questioned by the Jonsas, because according to them, it’s not directly from GRRM. They also quote GRRM saying that focusing on only Jon and Dany would be losing 90% of the story. But I don’t see how this is a refutation of the importance of Jonerys. The implication here is that the Jonerys relationship is central to the story. Saying “focusing on Jon and Dany would be losing 90% of the story” is not a refutation of the importance of Jonerys romance.

Right after this, the interviewer asks this question:

Renfro: Do you know if he was specific back then about them becoming romantically involved, since that's really only just become "official" in this latest season seven episode?

Taylor: I think it's become more official but it's been coming for awhile, so much so that it's not only starting to happen but Tyrion sees it coming enough that he's making fun of her for it. He can see what's brewing.

I can't say much more about what [Martin] said about where we're going with Dany and Jon because that leaps ahead into the next season, but to me the revelation was that, at the time, we had a hundred characters and yet he knew it's about these two.

https://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-director-theory-longclaw-grrm-jon-dany-2017-8

The interviewer asks about a romantic relationship, and Alan Taylor basically confirms that Jonerys is indeed a romantic relationship. Next, we have a confirmation that Jon loves Dany and sees her as a worthy queen:

So, I was happy that a big step forward was taken in the episode I got to do this season is where he has fallen for her both, you know, emotionally and politically I think. He recognizes what she’s capable of, and is ready to bend the knee as soon as his knees bend. There’s still a step further to go with them in terms of the romantic side of things and a lot more to play out in terms of how the politics and the power struggle will work, but it was at least a sort of solid step forward in that major arc. – Alan Taylor

https://deadline.com/2017/08/game-of-thrones-spoilers-recap-kit-harington-emilia-clarke-alan-taylor-beyond-the-wall-season-7-hbo-1202152264/

We have Dave Hill, one of the writers, saying that Jon would want to help Dany “break the wheel”:

They’re both, in a way, cut from the same cloth – they’re both idealists. They both care about the people they govern, which makes them unique in Westeros. And they both feel the same weight of the crown. All that that draws her to him. He’s good hearted and would want to “break the wheel” with her. – Dave Hill

https://ew.com/tv/2017/08/13/game-of-thrones-eastwatch/

We have Ramin confirming that Truth is a love theme:

“When we first play it during one of their meetings, you sort of pick it up as a new theme, but it really doesn’t put, in one way or another, of what’s to come,” Djawadi told Variety as part of its Artisans series. “We definitely didn’t want to establish right away that there’s going to be this love relationship coming out of it, so it gets played differently — a lot less emotional — until there’s more and more hints of their relationship. Then the melody develops further.” – Ramin Djawadi

https://variety.com/video/game-of-thrones-westworld-composer-ramin-djawadi/

“Ok, next up is the new theme from season 7, it’s this piece called Truth, and it’s the love theme for Daenerys and Jon Snow” – Ramin Djawadi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atyVF3-PgMM

“I haven’t started on it and don’t know anything about what’s to come, but I thought the setup for Season 8 was really great with the different houses coming together, now having to deal with the threat from the north,” he said. “The two big additions are the Jon and Daenerys love theme (‘Truth’), and the White Walker theme (‘Against All Odds’).” – Ramin Djawadi

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/08/ramin-djawadi-game-of-thrones-westworld-hbo-emmys-1201998061/

Benioff says Jon feels himself falling for Dany:

“I don’t think either of the knew exactly how powerful their feelings were towards each other until these moments Just the notion of falling for someone, that involves weakness. It’s not something a queen does. But she feels that happening, and he feels it happening for her. – David Benioff, Inside the Episode, Season 7 Episode 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUMGGy8fsHg

Benioff saying that Jon is attracted to Dany:

There’s conflict, and it’s conflict between powerful people. And then to make it all even more complicated, they’re starting to feel attracted to each other. – David Benioff – Inside The Episode, Season 7 Episode 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X17pjukf8rA

Kit Harington saying that Jon has deep feelings for Dany:

I think they both know it’s wrong, I think they both know it’s gonna cause problems, but it’s that thing, when you suddenly feel that deeply about someone, and you go through those events together... It’s like a runaway train, you can’t stop it happening. – Kit Harington, Cast Commentary on A Union of Fire and Ice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq0_mMin14Y

Kit Harington saying that Jon is attracted to Dany from the start:

He walks into the room and doesn’t expect to see such a beautiful young woman of similar age to him. Any young man’s reaction is going to be, ‘Okay…’ but he puts that aside, because he has to. – Kit Harington

https://ew.com/tv/2017/07/30/game-of-thrones-jon-daenerys-meet/

He walks into the room, he looks up, and he’s incredibly attracted to her. – Kit Harington, Jon Snow’s Character Video for Season 8

https://streamable.com/ldj4e

Isaac Hempstead-Wright saying that Jon loves and supports Dany:

And all of a sudden, everything gets very very complicated because Jon and Daenerys are now in love, they’re gonna wage battle together and Jon is pledging his support for her and by the end of season 7 it’s all a bit uncertain. – Isaac Hempstead-Wright, in Bran’s Character Video for Season 8

https://streamable.com/3t4kj

Kit Harington saying that Jon was being honest in the Dragonpit:

At this point, Jon is not able to lie. He’s done with deceit. The world of Game of Thrones is one built on deceit, political manouverings, and that’s not who Jon is, at the very heart of it. Jon is not that person, which is what makes him different from everyone else in this world and what makes him good. At the end of season 7, we see them heading to Winterfell and they’re going back as not so secret lovers. – Kit Harington, in Jon’s Character Video for Season 8

https://streamable.com/yhe64

“Jon is someone who plays by the book. He cannot lie,” Harington says. “Finding out about Dany would be very hard for him.” – TV Insider

https://www.tvinsider.com/740053/game-of-thrones-final-season-kit-harington-emilia-clarke/

Interviewer: Nobility – the sense of being led by a moral purpose - there’s not many characters in the show who have this…

Kit: I think they’ve all got their moral compass. They all have something that drives them. For Jon – it’s truth, honesty and nobility. From day one he’s had to fight against this being an outcast, so he stands up for outcasts. For others, like Cersei, it’s her children.

https://www.esquire.com/uk/culture/a23888381/kit-harington-on-fashion-fans-and-new-play-true-west/

SCRIPTS

We have many quotes from the scripts proving that Jon loves Dany:

Jon can’t help but stare at Dany, though. He had no idea she’d look like that. She’s cute as a bug! – 7x03

Jon watches her watching dragons. He’s never met a girl like her before.

He’d like to keep looking at her, and forget about the world events weighing down on his soul, but that’s just not the kind of guy he is. – 7x05

Jon has truly never seen a girl like this before. Her beauty, her strength, her grief and the pain it makes him feel… they all push him to the realization that he loves her.

He’s thrown by this realization. He doesn’t know what to do with it. It puts him at a loss for words. – 7x06

Jon looks to the people whose opinions he values most: Davos. Dany. – 7x07

Now, there are two quotes from the scripts that I think destroy any Jonsa justifications:

DANY: We sail together.

Jon doesn’t quite smile because smiling would seem inappropriate. But still, that almost looks like a smile. – 7x07

Why would Jon “almost smile” at the prospect of sailing together with Dany? I’ve seen people say that Jon is smiling because he is pleased that his plan of deceiving Dany is working. But would Jon Snow really do that? I don’t think Jon is above deceit if it’s necessary (it’s not necessary in this case, but anyway…), but would he enjoy deceiving and sexually manipulating someone? Would he smile about it? For me, there’s only one explanation for his smile: he is happy to spend time with Dany.

Jorah nods in deference. But he’s not smiling at all. Fucking punkass little shitburger stole my khaleesi! -7x07

Jonsas say that Jorah’s reaction in this scene is because he is worried for Dany, because he realizes that Jon is deceiving her. But the scripts refute that interpretation: Jorah is just jealous.

And for anyone that argues that Jon doesn't agree with Dany conquering lands or fighting for the throne, and that this is the reason he's deceiving her, here's a moment of the scripts in which Jon says it would be hypocrisy to condemn Dany:

DANY: You're not sure how you feel about that. (BEAT) How many men did your army kill, taking Winterfell back from the Boltons?

JON: Thousands.

DANY: We're both trying to help people. We can only help them from a position of strength. Sometimes strength is terrible.

As much as Jon would like to argue, it would be hypocrisy for him to do so.

https://www.reddit.com/user/HouseMonty/posts/

These are the scripts in the Writers Guild, But we also have the scripts that were originally leaked for season 7 in 2016. This is what happens after jon bends the knee:

Dany is shocked and amazed. What about the Northerners? How will they take it? Jon thinks they’ll understand. The ones who know him know he never really wanted to be king anyway. And the rest of them will come to see Dany for what she is: someone from the edge of the world, just like them. Someone who could have let them all die, but didn’t.

This script pretty much debunks the idea that Jonsas have that "see you for what you are" is something negative. By the way, I couldn't find the original source of the quote, because I think Lads posts were taken down, but I did find this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/7eikyj/spoilers_production_i_went_through_the/

NOT ONLY THERE ARE INTERVIEWS AND SCRIPTS AGAINST THIS THEORY, BUT THE THEORY REALLY MAKES NO SENSE

Aside from the many interviews and lines from the scripts, this theory has lots of holes. Trying to discuss the inconsistencies is very difficult, because Jonsas change the theory every time someone points a flaw in it. But I’m still going to try to talk about the different versions of the theory that I have knowledge.

One version is that Jon set out to seduce Dany from the very beginning. I think this one can be refuted very easily. If Jon intended to seduce Dany from the beginning, why was he so antagonistic to her? Why did he call her a child in their first meeting? Why did he question her war strategies saying that he was not sure how he felt about the Loot Train? Why didn’t he try to woo her? Why didn’t he tell her how amazing she is from the beginning? This version of the theory doesn’t make sense.

But there are also other versions, stating that Jon decided to seduce Dany at some point in season 7. But this point is never really specified. Was it in episode 4? 5? 6? 7?

If Jon decided to seduce Dany at some point between episodes 3-5, then he’s doing a very poor job at it. Again, why did he act so aloof if he was trying to seduce her? Why didn’t he do a heartfelt goodbye before he left for the mission beyond the Wall? Why did he even leave for a mission beyond the Wall if he’s trying to seduce her? I mean, if he dies he can’t really seduce her right? How can he make sure that she’ll help the North if he’s dead (especially if he supposedly thinks that Dany is untrustworthy)?

If Jon decided to seduce her only in episode 6, then we have more problems:

First, if Jon really feels nothing for Dany, why does he react the way he does when Viserion dies? I know a lot of people will say that it’s because this a great defeat and he lost a weapon to the Night King. But Jon also suffered a great defeat in Hardhome. He lost lots of wildling lives, people that could have helped in the fight against the Night King and now are added to the Night King’s army. Where was this fury when that happened? Jon didn’t try to attack the Night King out of fury after what happened in Hardhome. But he did try to attack him because one of Dany’s children died. Because he loves her.

I also once saw an argument that Jon tried to attack the Night King after Viserion died because this was his last chance to defeat the Night King without having to bend the knee to Dany. But that, again, doesn’t make sense. If Jon doesn’t trust Dany to fight the Night King, then risking his life to kill the Night King is really stupid. First, the Night King is far away. Second, if he dies in the attempt, then what guarantees that Dany will protect his people? If Dany is such an untrustworthy person, Jon shouldn’t risk himself. He can’t leave his people leaderless if Dany is that untrustworthy.

Finally, there’s also the idea that Jon decided to seduce Dany at the end of episode 6 or in the beginning of episode 7:

One version of the theory states that he decided after she says “I can’t forget what I saw north of the Wall and I can’t pretend that Cersei won’t take back half the country the moment I march north.” According to Jonsas, this shows that Dany is not committed and won’t go north unless Cersei agrees to the truce. Which is bullshit. In no moment Dany says “I won’t go North if Cersei doesn’t agree to the truce”. In no moment she says “I need to finish my war with Cersei first”. Dany saying that she can’t pretend Cersei won’t take back the country is just her way of saying “We’re fucked”. She also says that she can’t forget what she saw north of the Wall. So she is very concerned about that as well.

There’s also the idea that Jon decided to be political Jon because he saw that Dany was sailing to King’s Landing when he woke up on the boat, and that supposedly shows that she’s “not committed”. There are several problems with this version. First, how could Jon know where the ship was headed? Second, why is sailing to King’s Landing proof that Dany isn’t committed? They had all that work to catch a wight. Are they supposed to throw the wight in a trashcan and forget about it? If they caught a wight, they might as well use it. Men died to get that wight, they can’t let it be all for nothing.

Another problem is: if he decided to be political Jon by the end of episode 6/beginning of 7, why does he refuse to accept Cersei’s terms and tells her that he’s bent the knee to Dany? Jonsas say that the reason Jon did this was to gain Dany’s trust, make her love him more, or appeal to her ego, because he doesn’t care about Cersei. But how is Jon so sure that this will gain Dany’s trust? The argument of the Jonsas is that Dany won’t help the North unless Cersei agrees with the truce. So if Jon tells the truth to Cersei, and Cersei refuses to give them the truce, wouldn’t this be bad for Jon? If Dany is so power obsessed, it would make more sense for Jon to lie to Cersei to get the truce, because without the truce, Dany won’t help the North (according to Jonsas).

Then, we also have problems with the narrative consequences of Political Jon. If this theory is true, then we need to find out about this at some point of the last season. There are two possibilities for this: 1) Dany finds out about Jon’s deceit, or 2) Dany doesn’t find out, but the audience does.

About the first possibility: if Dany finds out that Jon deceived her, this must have narrative consequences. What could these consequences be? Well, the only consequence I’ve seen discussed by the antis is Dany refusing to help the North, or Dany trying to get revenge on Jon and the Starks. But how would that work out in the end? The heroes of the story need to have a happy ending, right? If Dany refuses to help, or just decides to burn everything down out of revenge, then how are the Starks going to get out of this situation? If Dany turns on the Starks, the Starks are dead. One could say that Bran will do something to warg the dragons and stop Dany. But if that happens, then Dany’s character would have been no more than a plot device to give the Starks her dragons, and then be killed off. No matter how much you hate Dany, no matter how much you think Dany is eViL, I think we can all agree that Dany will not be reduced to a plot device. If she ever became a villain, she wouldn’t be defeated that easily. Villain!Dany would cause a lot of destruction. And that brings us to another problem of this theory: it makes Jon into a terrible leader. If Dany becomes evil because she was deceived, then all this destruction that she causes is also Jon’s fault. If only he didn’t try to sexually manipulate her, Dany wouldn’t cause all this destruction. In the political Jon theory, Dany becomes a villain because of Jon’s callousness, because he deceived her and sexually manipulated her. This makes him a villain as well, because if Jon had just treated Dany with kindness and respect, without trying to manipulate her, none of this destruction would happen. This theory makes Jon into a monster.

Then there’s the possibility that Dany never finds out. In this, Dany dies without knowing anything, or Dany survives and Jon stays with her, even if he doesn’t love her. And I wonder: why would political Jon even be necessary in this case? It doesn’t change anything in this story, it has no narrative purpose. If Dany never finds out, there’s no need for political Jon. Then we go back to the first possibility, and all the problems that come with it.

And well, Jon’s actions in this theory are just unnecessary. Dany had already given Jon everything he wanted. There’s no need to manipulate her. Jonsas say that Jon is manipulating her “just to make sure” that she won’t betray the North, but that’s actually a horrible thing to do. When you enter a deal with someone, the two parts must be respectful, even if they don’t trust each other. If someone promises you their help, the only honorable thing to do is to respect them. Jon sexually manipulating Dany is the opposite of that. It would be acting in bad faith. Who would ever want to make an alliance with Jon in the future, if that’s how he treats his allies? Jon would be forever seen as dishonorable and untrustworthy.

A few more things:

Jon and Dany’s love theme is named Truth, ffs. Truth, not Lie. And all of Jordi Maquiavello’s analyses of the theme point to it being a positive theme, unlike other love themes in the show. You can watch his videos (in Spanish, but I think some have subtitles in English) here. You can read translations for some of the videos here, here, and here.

This theory mischaracterizes Jon, mischaracterizes Dany, is misogynistic, and goes against GRRM’s theme of uniting against a more important threat.

Not to mention that even if antis think Dany is evil, she's still brave. Wouldn't she have to fight against the army of the dead anyway? If Dany wants the throne, she has to fight against the army of the dead to get it. Antis themselves argue that pledging to fight for Jon is in Dany's own self interest (and they say this to "prove" that Dany is evil and has never been selfless in her life ever). Therefore, Jon has no need to manipulate her to convince her, because she’ll have to fight against the Army of the Dead anyway.

Emilia Clarke said that the wait for season 8 will be worth it, she says she wants Dany to remain a feminist icon, Nathalie (who’s a Dany fan), seems satisfied with the ending, Iain Glen (another Dany fan) is also very satisfied, and has said before in interviews that he thinks the Villain Daenerys theory is bullshit. Nothing points to Villain Daenerys. If there’s no Villain Dany, there’s no justification for Political Jon. You can see the interviews here, and some additions here.

The marketing has been all about Jonerys. Way to disappoint your audience in the very last season by making them root for a couple and then making Political Jon happen.

Like, I don’t even understand why Jonsas feel Political Jon is so necessary for Jonsa to happen. Couldn’t Dany just die saving the world, and Jon and Sansa get together in the end? See, you don’t even need to vilify Dany to make Jonsa happen.

With all of this, I don't know how could anyone believe in Political Jon.

#jonerys #my meta

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sydneysageivashkov · 5 years

Text

Everything We’ve Done (Is There On Our Faces) 8/?

It started, once upon a time, with Ned Stark finding a litter of orphaned dire wolf cubs, with Robert Baratheon riding for Winterfell, with Ned becoming Hand of the King in the viper’s pit that was King’s Landing.

It restarts like this:

Arya and Sansa wake up as children again, a message ringing in their ears. The Old Gods need Westeros to be strong and united to defend the Wall, and the Old Gods don’t forget oaths easily.

(Time travel AU. Eventual Sansa/Theon, Arya/Gendry, Jaime/Brienne.)

AO3 | FF.net

“It’s a terrible thing, what happened,” said Wyman Manderly. “I can’t imagine it would have been easy, for the two of you.”

Ned exchanged a glance with Benjen. “It wasn’t,” agreed Ned. “But it’s over, now, and Sansa can look forward to her marriage with Theon Greyjoy.”

“And good riddance with the Bolton bastard!” exclaimed the Greatjon. “The Gods know we don’t need someone like that as Lord of the Dreadfort, especially with the Long Night coming.”

“He might even have brought back flaying,” agreed Manderly.

It was almost amusing to see the two bannermen who were the most separate culturally agreeing with each other. Perhaps if it hadn’t been over Ramsay Snow, Ned would have found it truly amusing. But with Roose Bolton having already left for the Dreadfort, well before any of the other lords had departed, Ned couldn’t help the coil of worry in his chest.

Roose Bolton was always going to be a threat, regardless of whether they had left Ramsay alone. He had conspired with the Lannisters to murder Robb and Catelyn, and take the other lords of the North hostage, to become Warden of the North, without any provocation. Ned kept reminding himself of it, but it still didn’t sit any easier in his chest.

Howland Reed sat straighter. “Speaking of the Long Night,” he said, “it seems to me that if any castles still have records of the first, then it would be the one built by Brandon the Builder himself.”

“We’ve searched the libraries already,” said Ned. “Maester Luwin just about turned the entire tower upside down, looking for information. There’s nothing.”

“But the Library Tower isn’t the oldest part of Winterfell, is it?” pressed Howland. “Winterfell must have been built and rebuilt a hundred times over, over the centuries. Perhaps it’s only in the oldest parts of the castle that the truth remains.”

Benjen met Ned’s eyes. “The crypts.”

“The oldest parts are collapsed,” said Ned. “It will take time to access them fully. But – we can try.” Something like a cross between anticipation and dread settled in the pit of Ned’s stomach. It was the best lead they had, one that they had never had before – but the idea of venturing into the depths of the crypts unsettled him. And he would have to take the girls with him, because if anyone knew what was relevant, it would be them, even though every instinct in him rebelled against it.

“Winterfell isn’t the only castle that dates back to the first Long Night,” said the Greatjon. “Last Hearth does, as well.” The Dreadfort, too, thought Ned, though he expected that Roose Bolton would be of little help.

“The Nightfort is the oldest castle on the Wall,” said Benjen. “It’s been abandoned for a long time, though, and it was rebuilt many times – I don’t know if there would be any writings left.”

“It’s worth a try,” said Ned. “Perhaps you should look at manning it again, with the fresh men coming to the Wall.”

“Hopefully, we’ll be able to man more of the castles than just that,” said Benjen. “If we’re to have any chance, we’ll need to man them all.”

“The King will be in Winterfell soon,” said Ned. “When he hears of the situation, he’ll send more men north to man the Wall. All of Westeros will be ready to fight the Walkers when they come.”

“The Age of Heroes come again,” said Catelyn. Ned turned to see her standing in the doorway. She entered to sit by his side. “I never much wanted heroes, but it seems I’ve no choice in the matter.” A peaceful life, raising their children and ruling the North; that was all he and Catelyn had wanted since they had married, so long ago now.

“My lady,” greeted Manderly, inclining his head slightly. “You spoke very well at the meeting.”

“She always speaks well,” interjected Ned.

Catelyn gave him a small, pleased smile. “It is an important issue, my lord,” she told Manderly. “I knew that it would be difficult for anyone to believe, but I hoped that my word – that of an Andal – might sway more people.”

“It certainly did that,” rumbled the Greatjon.

“We were discussing searching the crypts and having the Nightfort searched for information about the Others,” Ned told her.

“They were both built by Bran the Builder,” explained the Greatjon.

“I’m aware, my lord,” said Catelyn. “Was Storm’s End not also built by Bran the Builder, according to legend? I know that most maesters do not believe it was, but most maesters also believe that the Nightfort and Winterfell weren’t built by the same man.”

“Another thing to speak with the King about,” said Ned, nodding. “If Bran the Builder truly had a hand in Storm’s End, it’s possible he left something behind there.”

Catelyn turned to Benjen, Manderly and the Greatjon. “If you will excuse us, my lords, I would like to speak with my lord husband.” She waited for the three men to shuffle out of the room before she turned back to Ned. “I think that you should send someone else to the Wall.”

“Sansa and Arya both say that Jon is our best chance of treating with the Wildlings,” said Ned, his shoulders tensing.

“I mean in addition to the boy,” said Catelyn. “I won’t lie and say that it will not ease my mind, having another of our children on the Wall while Jon Snow treats with the Wildlings – but I trust Sansa and Arya’s judgement. I have to. So no, Ned, that is not the only reason I have for sending someone else.”

“What else?” asked Ned, his tone still wary.

“Sending one of our trueborn sons to the Wall shows that we are serious about the White Walker threat,” explained Catelyn. “While you and I know why you can’t go yourself, there will be some who see your absence as Winterfell not taking the threat seriously. If we send one of our trueborn sons, then it demonstrates that we are.”

“Robb, then?” asked Ned. “Bran?”

Catelyn hesitated. “I’m not sure,” she admitted. “Bran is so young, but if things go wrong while you’re in King’s Landing, we need Robb here.”

“Things won’t go wrong,” promised Ned. “I am as prepared as I can be, Cat. I won’t wait for Robert to die to break the news. Sansa and Arya will be both be there to advise me.”

“Cersei Lannister is still the daughter of one of the most powerful men in Westeros,” said Catelyn. “We cannot underestimate that family, Ned. It’s one mistake that we made the other time, and half our family died for it.”

“I won’t,” said Ned. “Like you said, we have to trust Sansa and Arya’s judgement, and I will. I promise.” Catelyn pressed her lips together, not meeting his eyes. “Cat. I swear to you, on the old gods and the new, that I will not make the same mistakes that I did the other time.”

Catelyn almost smiled, and said, “That oath still means you can make new ones.”

“I have no way of knowing what those mistakes will be, so I can’t promise you that,” said Ned. “I would if I could, though. You know that I would; that I wouldn’t do anything to harm you or our children.”

Catelyn’s eyes squeezed shut, and she turned her back to him. After a long moment, she whispered, “Then why have you not acted about Jon Snow?”

Ned’s heart skipped a beat. All he could think was she knows, she knows – but that was impossible, he realised as his rational brain caught up with the rest of him. “Jon wouldn’t do anything to harm our children.”

“Oh?” asked Catelyn, her voice icy. “He took our children’s birth right when he allowed himself to be crowned King in the North. It was Bran’s by right, and even if they didn’t know about Bran’s survival, then the crown should have fallen to Sansa. It was her birthright and he took it, just like I always warned you.”

“Sansa and Arya both say that they supported him,” said Ned. “You said that you trust their judgement.”

“They shouldn’t have needed to support him!” cried Catelyn. “It should never even have been a question. The lords should have never seen him as an option when he had a trueborn sister sitting right next to him.”

Ned’s breath caught. He didn’t know how to argue that; she wasn’t wrong in her assessment, even if Ned struggled to imagine Jon actively setting out to steal his sibling’s seat. More likely, he thought, that one of the Northern lords had named him and he hadn’t protested when Sansa hadn’t. But Catelyn was right in that, too; by all rights, Jon shouldn’t have been an option.

Before he even had a chance to formulate a response, Catelyn continued, “The only reason I have not asked you to remove him from Winterfell is because I know that we will need his help, no matter what my feelings are. But something has to be done, my lord.”

“What do you want me to do?” he asked. “Do you wish for me to punish him for something he hasn’t done? Even Theon, who remembers what he did in the other time, I only sentenced to squire for Ser Rodrik and to help Bran and Rickon with their studies. What would you have me do to Jon?”

Catelyn deflated. “I don’t know,” she whispered. More clearly, she said, “I don’t know, my lord. But can we risk him taking my children’s rightful place?”

The fire in Sansa’s chambers was roaring wonderfully warm. Sansa was crammed into her bed with Bran on one side, Arya on the other, and Rickon at her feet, because he had seen the other two lying in bed with her and refused to be left out. Jon and Robb were on the few chairs she had in her room, and the direwolves had all crowded into the room, and were lying half on top of each other by the fire. Sansa wasn’t sure she had ever seen her chambers so full, but she also couldn’t remember the last time she had felt this safe and warm.

“They were magnificent,” Arya was saying. “We couldn’t have fit them into the courtyard. I was so jealous that Jon could ride on one.”

“Rhaegal,” remembered Sansa. “He rode Rhaegal, named after Rhaegar Targaryen.”

“Little ironic, isn’t it?” said Robb wryly. “Riding the dragon named after the man who kidnapped our aunt.”

“The other options were riding a dragon named after Viserys Targaryen or a Dothraki warlord,” said Sansa, her voice dry. “Daenerys told me a little of her brother, while we tried to find an accord. I don’t think he was any better a namesake.”

“I’m more caught on the fact I rode a dragon at all,” said Jon.

“Oh, you did more than that,” jeered Arya. Robb choked on air at the innuendo while Jon gaped at her openly.

“More than ride?” asked Rickon, peeping up at them with wide, innocent eyes.

“He helped look after them,” said Sansa quickly. “Like how Theon has to help take care of the horses.” Arya opened her mouth, a smirk still on her face, so Sansa cut her off. “And you can’t talk, or did you not spend our last few hours with a certain blacksmith?” Arya’s mouth snapped shut.

“She did what?” demanded Robb, as Jon crossed his arms as if he was ready to threaten the blacksmith here and now.

Arya buried her face in her hands. “Oh, gods, Sansa, you really had to go right for the throat, didn’t you?”

“What blacksmith?” pressed Jon. “Is he here in Winterfell?”

“No,” groaned Arya. “He’s in King’s Landing, far from your reach.” Jon and Robb both huffed, sharing a look. “Oh, for the love of – I was a woman grown! I thought I only had a few hours left and I started it, you bloody idiots.” Jon looked faintly ill at the thought of Arya starting anything of the sort.

“Maybe I’ll have to join you when you go to King’s Landing,” grumbled Robb, though only half-heartedly.

“If there’s one thing you should know about Arya,” said Sansa, “it’s that trying to forbid her of anything will only make her want it more.”

“He’s not an it!” said Arya hotly, at the same time as Robb conceded, “That’s true.”

“What about you, Sansa?” asked Bran, snuggling closer. “Did you find anyone?”

Sansa swallowed, looking down. “No,” she said, softly. “I’m afraid I didn’t, Bran. But that’s okay, because I found you again, and Arya and Jon and Theon. I wasn’t alone.” There was silence for a moment, as Arya laid her hand against Sansa’s shoulder. Sansa let herself smile as she leant her head against Arya’s.

Robb broke the silence, saying, “But back to the blacksmith. I need to know his name, at least.”

“What, so you can tell Father?” scoffed Arya. “I’m not an idiot, Robb.”

“I didn’t say you were,” said Robb, looking put out.

“You married a girl from Volantis,” intervened Sansa, taking pity on Arya and Robb both. “It was a love match. Talisa, her name was.”

“Talisa Maegyr,” supplied Arya. “They say she was kind. She was a nurse, I think.” Robb whispered the name to himself with something like wonder in his voice. Arya smiled. “Left a comfortable life in Volantis to become a nurse. I think I would have liked her.”

“I think I would have, too,” said Sansa.

“Then I hope I’ll meet her again,” declared Robb. Sansa couldn’t quite meet his eyes, so she looked down at her hands. She wasn’t sure how to tell him she already had other plans for him. But the girls I’ve picked out for him are good people, too, she reminded herself. Meera protected Bran, Wynafryd seems to be decent, and Margaery – unlikely a match as she is – was always kind to me and to the smallfolk. He can be happy with them.

“What about me?” asked Bran. “Did I have anybody?”

“And me!” exclaimed Rickon, though Sansa thought it was more because he didn’t want to be left out than any actual interest in girls.

“You were too young, Rickon,” said Arya, “and no, Bran.”

“But we can fix that,” Sansa added quickly. “Shireen Baratheon’s about your age, isn’t she?” It was a good match to make, since it tied them more closely to a powerful Southern House, should the worst happen. Bran would be betrothed to the second in line to the Iron Throne when Cersei’s infidelity was exposed. It might even discourage Robert from seeking any other betrothals between House Baratheon and House Stark, or at least pacify him when he discovered that he couldn’t marry Sansa off to Joffrey.

Bran made a face. “I don’t have to marry her anytime soon, do I?”

Arya snorted, not even bothering to pretend to cover it with a cough. Sansa shot her a look and said, “Of course not. You’re both still too young to be married.”

“Good,” said Bran, slumping back down in the bed.

“I remember wanting to name my children -” started Sansa, but was cut off.

“Oh no,” stage-whispered Arya. Sansa drove her elbow into Arya’s side, and Arya half-groaned, half-laughed.

“I wanted to name them after all of you,” said Sansa. “When the Tyrrells tried to marry me to Loras, I used to dream about having children that were like having you back.” She spotted Robb hiding a smile, and she cocked her head. “What?”

“Nothing,” said Robb, shaking his head. “It’s just – that’s the most Sansa thing I’ve heard you say in months, dreaming of marriage and children.” Sansa ducked her head. “I hadn’t realised that I’d missed it.”

“I still want them,” she said, quietly. “It’s just that I can’t see how I can bring children into the world, knowing what’s coming, and still be a good mother.”

Robb’s eyes widened slightly, and he looked down to the floor. “Then I shouldn’t meet Talisa Maegyr,” he said. “Or if I do, I should tell her to go home to Volantis while she still can.” Sansa’s heart squeezed painfully in her chest at the thought: Robb giving up a chance at happiness to keep his happiness safe. It was stupidly noble, but oh so Robb.

“Come here,” ordered Sansa, holding out her hand. He looked ready to protest, so Sansa repeated more forcefully, “Come here.” Robb reluctantly stood up from the chair and took her hand, looking unsurprised when she tugged him down so he collapsed on top of the bed. Bran let out an ‘oof!’ as Robb landed partly on his legs, and Arya laughed with delight.

Jon was watching them indulgently, but with a closely guarded jealousy that Sansa would never have recognised the first time around. “What are you still doing there?” she asked pointedly.

Jon started. “I couldn’t -”

“Yes, you bloody well can,” said Arya, as Bran and Rickon started to call out their own encouragements.

“Arguing with our sisters in very unwise, Snow,” said Robb, who was still rearranging himself in an attempt not to crush any of his younger siblings. “Gods know how you’re going to find a spot, though.”

Jon perched on the very edge of Sansa’s bed. Arya rolled her eyes, pulling him down so that he was half-lying across her lap, head bumping next to Robb’s. Bran pulled his legs out from under Robb as Rickon gleefully collapsed on top of Robb, aiming all of his weight for Robb’s stomach.

“Good gods, Rickon, when did you get so heavy?” Robb complained half-heartedly, but his arms encircled Rickon automatically.

“You know that the only reason we have any chance at all is because of the two of you,” said Jon, looking up at Sansa and Arya. “I mean, we all died in your time, but now we know what’s coming. We can still win this. You can still have your children, Sansa, and Robb can still meet Talisa Maegyr if he wants.”

“And I can still become a knight!” said Bran.

“And me!” added Rickon, again unwilling to be left out.

“And you, Arya?” asked Sansa. “What are you going to be doing?”

Arya hummed for a moment, thinking. “I don’t know, yet. I just want to make it through, right now.”

“We’ll do it,” said Sansa. “We’ll do it, and my children will have to have names all of their own, because you’ll all be here with me.”

“Are we all ready?” asked Ned, glancing down and into the darkness of the crypts.

“Should your daughters be coming?” asked the Greatjon, his voice blunt.

“We’re daughters of House Stark,” said Arya tartly. “Those our ancestors in those crypts. What’s your reasoning for entering Winterfell’s crypts, again?” The Greatjon looked startled enough that Jon had to swallow back laughter.

“Let them come,” advised Ned. “No doubt they’ll follow us down if we tried to leave them behind.”

“No doubt,” agreed Sansa frostily.

“Then we should move on,” said Ned. Jon gripped his torch tighter and followed Ned into the crypts. Arya walked beside him, Robb and Sansa only a step or two behind, and Benjen, the Greatjon and Howland Reed taking up the rear. The air chilled as soon as they stepped into the crypts. Jon resisted pulling his cloak tighter around himself, knowing that it would only grow colder as they descended deeper.

“It’s been a long time since I was in here,” murmured Sansa. Jon glanced back. Her face was pale, and she clutched at her torch so tightly her knuckles were white. He had forgotten, until this moment, that Sansa had died in the crypts, but it was obvious Sansa hadn’t. She glanced nervously into the shadowy corners of the crypt, walking slightly closer to Robb than was necessary.

“They’re all in the tombs,” promised Robb. Sansa’s lips puckered, and Jon knew what she was thinking as clearly as if she had said it aloud: For how long?

Jon glanced at Arya. Although she gripped her torch tightly, she otherwise seemed unbothered by being surrounded by dead men, even after everything she had seen.

“We need to keep moving,” said Ned. “The tombs go deep, and I don’t think any of us want to be in here any longer than we have to be.”

“Of course, Father,” said Sansa, her voice subdued.

They had descended another two levels when Arya spoke up. “Why do all the tombs have swords across their laps?”

“Old Nan always said it was to keep their spirits sealed in,” said Jon. “Though I’ve got no idea why they thought that would work.”

“No, but…” Arya trailed off as she approached an old tomb, peering up at it. “Placing a sword across your knees shows that you aren’t offering guest right. Why are our ancestors refusing guest right?”

Jon’s mouth opened, though he didn’t have an answer. He exchanged a glance with Robb. Around them, Ned, Benjen and the lords looked around at the statues, more apprehensively than they had before. Suddenly, the faces carved into stone did not look as familiar as they had done, all of his life. They seemed to take on a new dimension, not like a Stark in their features, but something distinctly alien.

Even if Arya’s right, these men would have lived too long after the Long Night to remember what happened, Jon told himself. They’re Starks, like Robb or Arya or Sansa. They won’t show us harm.

“Who are they denying guest right?” asked Sansa. “They couldn’t deny us guest right, could they? We aren’t guests in Winterfell.”

“Maybe the Others?” suggested Robb.

“We might not be guests to Winterfell, but we’re guests to the crypts,” said Ned, his voice dark. “We have to be more careful, going forwards.”

“There aren’t any White Walkers hiding in the crypts,” pointed out the Greatjon. “No matter who they’re rejecting, they can’t do anything about it.” Jon saw Sansa and Arya looking at each other out of the corner of his eye; neither of them seemed reassured by the Greatjon’s words.

The ground seemed to creek beneath under Jon’s feet as they made their way further down, dust kicking up at his feet with every step he took. With each level, the dust grew thicker, until Jon thought that he could choke on it if he breathed too deeply.

“We’ll be seeing the cave-ins soon,” warned Ned, not bothering to look over his shoulder. “It’s going to be dangerous. If anyone wants to turn back, this is the time.”

“Couldn’t find my way back even if I wanted to,” grunted the Greatjon, to which Howland Reed made an agreeing sound.

“We should keep moving,” said Arya, and Jon nodded in agreement. Ned cast a worried glance at Sansa, but in spite of her pale face and uneven breathing, she stepped forwards to stand in line with Jon and Arya.

“We’ll all go on,” she told Ned. A flicker of pride flashed through Ned’s eyes before he nodded solemnly.

They picked their way carefully through the remainder of the tombs. This far deep, the features had been weathered away, leaving only faceless statues watching their progression with brittle, broken swords across their knees. Somehow, this felt worse than statues at the top of the crypts; the statues no longer felt like Stark ancestors, but an ancient, unknowable force. The broken swords were the only comfort; even if they somehow got loose, they wouldn’t be difficult to repel.

Jon turned back to help Sansa over rubble, the partially collapsed remains of the roof. Arya scrambled behind Sansa, her breeches looking beaten and her hair a mess. Lady Stark might have a heart attack when she sees Arya, thought Jon, amused. Up ahead, Ned, the Greatjon, Reed and Robb were working to clear the path.

“Do you think we’ll find anything?” asked Jon. He hated to think that they’d ventured so far down when there was nothing to find. The dirt above their heads seemed ominous, as if it would fall in any second.

Arya shrugged. “I haven’t the foggiest.”

“Lord Reed is right, though,” said Sansa. “If anything remains, it’ll be in the depths of the crypts, and we need all the information we can get.”

“Girls, Jon!” called Ned. He and the others had managed to clear a small hole at the top of the cave-in. Howland Reed was already scrambling through it. It looked hardly large enough for the Greatjon to fit through, but he managed to cram his way through. Jon sent Sansa and Arya ahead of him, before making his was through the last of all.

“There’s something up there,” said Sansa, brushing dirt off of her skirt. “All boarded up, by the look of it.”

Sansa was right; it was hard to see it in the low light, but someone had made an effort to place wood and earth across a narrow entranceway between two tombs, just as the crypts turned a corner. They were on one of the lowest levels, now, although not quite at the bottom – they were far enough down that they were in the levels Brandon the Builder himself had probably walked the halls of, building tombs and burying his family members.

Arya slipped away from the others before anyone could stop her, approaching the door. “I think it’s newer,” she said, surprise colouring her voice. “All this wood, I mean. It hasn’t rotten away as much as the supports, and it’s definitely been hammered in over the top of the door.”

Silence met her report. Jon didn’t want to think it, but he couldn’t help but wonder: what had been hidden in there?

Silently, without any discussion, Reed and the Greatjon withdrew the daggers from their belts. It hadn’t been easy to find enough dragonglass around Winterfell to create any daggers – there weren’t even enough to go round. Ned took his dragonglass dagger from its sheath, motioning for Arya and Sansa to get behind the others. Arya made a face, but obeyed. Jon and Robb got to work tearing the wood from the door, the other men hovering behind them with daggers at the ready. The wood came free easily enough. It may not have been as rotten as the rest at this level, but it was still thousands of years old, old enough that it made Jon dizzy to think about.

When the wood was cleared away, Robb tried the door. It didn’t move. Gritting his teeth, Robb backed up a few steps before throwing his whole weight against the door. It gave way and Robb stumbled into the room, Ned rushing in after him. Jon followed.

It was clear that the room hadn’t seen life in generations: everything was covered in a thick layer of dust, and the air felt stale and still. Against one wall was shelves full of books, still in tact even after all these years, and most remarkable of all was a sword, resting against the wall opposite Jon, held up in what seemed to be a position of honour.

“Ice,” breathed Ned, because there was nothing else that the sword could be. This had to be the original Ice, the one that had been replaced by the Valyrian steel sword somewhere above their heads. With a sudden rush of horrified understanding, Jon realised exactly where the name had come from.

Arya crossed the room and stared up at the sword with wide, flinty eyes. “This is the kind of sword the White Walkers used,” she whispered. “The kind of sword that killed me.”

“Why do we have a sword of the Others?” asked Robb, even though there was no one living who could provide him an answer.

“They sealed this away,” said Sansa. “I always thought that the original Ice must have broken, but it wasn’t. One of our ancestors purposefully sealed it away and hid the truth from the rest of us.”

Howland Reed alone had moved to the bookshelf. Gingerly, he took down a stack of parchments. They had been discoloured by age, but otherwise seemed unharmed. “If there are answers anywhere, it will be in these.”

“Be careful with them,” cautioned Ned.

“Being sealed in this room must have preserved them,” went on Reed. “The air is so still – water couldn’t have gotten in and the temperature probably didn’t change much in here. Your ancestor might be the one reason we have any records at all.”

But why do we have an ice sword? Jon thought, but didn’t bother saying, because no answers were forthcoming.

Sansa handed her torch to Robb and took some parchment from Howland Reed. With Robb holding the fire close to the documents, Sansa skimmed through the first few pages, murmuring to herself.

Jon went to stand before Ice. A chill seemed to emanate from it. It must be magic, he thought to himself. How else could it have survived all these years, rather than melting away with the summer? It was larger than a great sword, although not by much. Jon wondered if it was heavier or lighter than the Valyrian steel sword. Valyrian steel was already lighter than ordinary steel – was ice lighter again?

“Arya.”

Sansa’s voice cut through the still room, short and brittle. Jon realised that he had been reaching for Ice, and snatched his hand back and away from it. Arya was hurrying to Sansa’s side.

“The Three-Eyed Raven watches us all,” Sansa read aloud. “We cannot hide from him. We don’t know how to escape him.”

Arya stared at Sansa. “They’re talking like -”

“Like they’re scared of the Three-Eyed Raven,” finished Sansa. “But Bran was the Three-Eyed Raven, wasn’t he? He couldn’t have been back in the first Long Night.”

“He wasn’t the first,” said Arya. “That’s why he went north, to learn from the one before him. They must stretch all the way back to the Long Night. But Bran was on our side. Why are they scared of him?”

Sansa scanned the rest of the piece of parchment. “A thousand eyes and one,” she read. “Stay inside the keeps. The Heart Tree can no longer be trusted. He controls the Godswoods.” She looked up. “It’s a letter from an Umber to Winterfell. A warning, apparently.”

“But Bran was trying to stop the Others!” protested Arya, desperation in her voice. “Why would we hide from Bran? Why would they hide from the Three-Eyed Raven?”

Sansa stared around the room with wild eyes. “What if he wasn’t?” she whispered.

“What are you saying, Sansa?” asked Arya, her voice low and dangerous.

“He told us a hundred times over that he wasn’t Brandon Stark anymore, just the Three-Eyed Raven,” said Sansa. “The first time I spoke with him after I came home, do you know what he said to me? He said that I looked beautiful, the first night Ramsay - ” Sansa broke off with a shudder. She wiped a tear furiously from her eyes before she continued. “He didn’t hug me at all. He barely hugged you. Does that sound like Bran to you?”

“Who else would it be?”

“What if…” Sansa licked her lips nervously. “Bran called us ‘sister’ when he sent us back, but he never called us that after he became the Three-Eye Raven. So what if it was Bran, or whatever was left of him, that sent us back, not the Three-Eyed Raven? What if Bran overpowered the rest of the Three-Eyed Raven to send us all back? What if that’s why Ramsay came, too? Because Bran couldn’t control it enough, because he wasn’t truly in control, and he accidentally sent Ramsay with us, because he had technically sworn an oath to me, even if he’d never had any plans of fulfilling it.”

“But then what was the Three-Eyed Raven planning?” asked Arya.

“I don’t know,” said Sansa. “I don’t… But we have an ice sword, here in the crypts, sealed away.”

“It could be a trophy,” said Ned. “The first of the Starks may have taken it from the Others as a prize.”

“Then why seal it away?” fired back Sansa. “We’ve been telling the world winter is coming for thousands of years. If there was any proof that the White Walkers had existed, it was that sword. So why would one of our ancestors be ashamed of a trophy?”

“You’re saying that we got it from – what? A trade?” asked Robb.

“I don’t know!” exclaimed Sansa. “I don’t know. But I think the story is a lot more complicated than what the Three-Eyed Raven told us. I think there’s more to the Others than wanting to destroy the world’s stories.”

“You think the Three-Eyed Raven lied to you all,” said Ned. “What motive could he have for that? Assuming that there is a way to communicate with the Others – because how else could we have made a trade? – why would the Three-Eyed Raven lie to you all? What’s his motive for all of this?”

“The answers, if there are any, will be in these,” said Sansa, holding up her stack of parchments. “We need to read them all before we do anything else.”

Arya gasped, sinking to her knees.

“What?” asked Jon, dropping to his knees beside her. “What is it?”

“If the Three-Eyed Raven is evil…” said Arya. She looked up to meet Sansa’s eyes. “We’ve been meeting in front of the Heart Tree. He knows. He knows everything.”

Arya threw the door to the library tower open and sprinted up the stairs. She could hear voices calling for her, and footsteps following her, but she didn’t pause until she reached the top of the stairs, scanning the room for only half a second.

Maester Luwin was at the front of the room, lecturing from a book, while Bran and Rickon sat next to him. Theon was kneeling next to Bran, saying something to him quietly. Arya ran to Bran’s side, knocking Theon aside in her haste.

“What the fu -” started Theon, before cutting himself off at a look from Luwin.

“Are you okay?” demanded Arya, looking over him for any signs of the Three-Eyed Raven’s influence, like it would be visible.

Bran looked at her, curious but a bit bemused. Good; that was good. Emotions meant that the Three-Eyed Raven hadn’t gotten to him yet. “I’m fine, Arya.”

The footsteps pursuing her stopped at the entranceway. Arya glanced up; Ned was in the doorway, with Robb, Jon and Sansa crowding behind him.

“You’d tell me if you had any strange dreams, wouldn’t you?” pressed Arya. “If you had any dreams about ravens, for instance?”

“Not one,” said Bran. “What’s going on?”

Arya slumped, dragging Bran into a bear hug. “Tell me or Sansa the second you wake up from one, alright? Promise me.”

“I promise,” said Bran, even though it was clear from his voice he had no idea what he was promising.

“Maester Luwin, could you take Rickon to finish his lesson elsewhere?” asked Sansa. “And send Mother and Lady Brienne here, while you’re at it.”

Maester Luwin bowed his head. “Of course, Lady Sansa. Come along, Rickon.”

“What’s going on?” asked Theon, his voice weary. “I thought you were all just going down into the crypts.”

“We were,” said Sansa. “We found documents, and…” Sansa shook her head in disbelief. “A sword made of ice.”

“Like -?” started Theon, unable to say it aloud.

“Like the ones the Others used,” confirmed Sansa. “Uncle Benjen, Lord Umber and Lord Reed are bringing some of them up now, but we’ll have to make return trips – especially since we had to chase after Arya instead of bringing some up for ourselves.”

Arya jutted her chin up, unrepentant. “I had to see Bran.”

Sansa sighed, coming to kneel by Bran herself. “Are you sure, Bran? Sure that you haven’t dreamt of any three-eyed ravens?”

“I swear it,” insisted Bran.

“Wait – Three-Eyed Raven as in Bran?” asked Theon. “I mean, the other Bran.”

“No, not Bran,” said Sansa. “There’s been one more of the Three-Eyed Raven, and – well, let’s wait for Mother and Brienne to arrive, so we don’t have to explain it twice.”

“It is very important that you tell us, Bran,” said Ned, his voice solemn. Bran nodded, wide-eyed, his face beginning to pale. Robb sunk into the chair Rickon had just left, rubbing his face tiredly.

“I can’t believe we might have cocked this all up,” he said, voice muffled by his hands.

“We?” repeated Sansa. “No, this is on Arya and me. You knew nothing. We should have guessed.”

“How could we have guessed?” asked Arya. “He was helping us; he sent us back. How were we to know?”

“But he told us a dozen times -” started Sansa, but was interrupted as the door opened again. Catelyn and Brienne entered, surveying the room quickly.

“Something’s wrong,” stated Catelyn.

“Very wrong,” said Sansa. “Gods, Mother, we might have doomed us all.”

Brienne blanched at Sansa’s words, but Catelyn held firm, her eyes widening only a little. She strode across the room and took up Maester Luwin’s old seat, looking more like a queen in it than Cersei or Daenerys ever had. “Tell me everything.”

“We found documents,” said Ned. “They mentioned the Three-Eyed Raven.”

“What Bran was, in the other time?” checked Catelyn.

“It’s what we thought he was,” said Arya.

“There is more than one Three-Eyed Raven,” explained Sansa. “Bran was taught how to become the Three-Eyed Raven. The line stretches all the way back to the first Long Night.”

“Except that what we read in that parchment didn’t match up with what Bran – or what we thought was Bran – told us,” said Arya. “Whoever it was writing that record, they were scared of the Three-Eyed Raven, as scared of him as they were of the Others.”

“I’m going to be as evil as the Others?” whispered Bran, pulling away from Arya.

“No!” exclaimed Arya. “No. You still saved us, remember? It was you who sent us back.”

“I think that the Three-Eyed Raven is like…” Sansa hesitated. “It’s like a castle, that’s been added to a hundred times over. Maybe more has been added to it than what it began as, but it’s still a castle, you see?” To Bran, she said, “It’s like if they added a Maester’s wing to a castle that had never had one before. You’re the Maester’s wing; you’re the good part.” To the rest of the room, she said, “I think that when we were dying, Bran managed to take what was left of him, inside the Three-Eyed Raven, and sent us back. So it wasn’t the Three-Eyed Raven that sent us back, it was Bran, using the Three-Eyed Raven’s abilities, and he tried to send people back to help us. That’s why Arya and I were told to stop everything, and Brienne and Theon were only told to fulfil their oaths – their oaths to us, to help and protect us.” Sansa paced back and forth across the room. “Except Bran couldn’t fully control it, or maybe the other parts of the Three-Eyed Raven tried to sabotage him, and that’s why Ramsay was sent back, because he did swear an oath to me, even if he never had any intention of fulfilling it.”

“We’ll stop this,” promised Arya. “You’re never going to become part of the Three-Eyed Raven, Bran. I’ll die before it happens.”

“I don’t understand,” cut in Catelyn. “How does this make us doomed?”

“The Three-Eyed Raven can see through the faces of the Heart Trees,” said Arya, “and Sansa and I have been talking in front of the Heart Tree since the first time we woke up back here. The Three-Eyed Raven knows everything.”

“That still doesn’t mean we’re doomed,” said Brienne. “The Three-Eyed Raven, regardless of whether it was Bran or not, was helping us against the Others.”

“Was he?” asked Sansa.

“I’m sorry?” said Brienne.

“What did he do against the Others?” asked Sansa. “He told us that he was what the Others were pursuing, but we don’t have any proof of that. He didn’t tell us much about their movements; he didn’t help Arya or me when we were – he didn’t tell us any information that could have persuaded Daenerys Targaryen sooner or Cersei Lannister at all. What did he do to help us?”

Theon and Brienne sat silent at that, dumbfounded.

“A monster stole our brother’s body,” hissed Arya. “He stole Bran’s body and he’s been spying on us all this time.”

“But none of this means that he was working against us,” pointed out Catelyn.

“What more proof do you need?” demanded Arya.

Catelyn held her hand up. “I believe you,” she said. “But you’re missing several puzzle pieces, such as: what was the Three-Eyed Raven doing, if not helping you? And why do you think he was lying about the Others’ motivation? Why did the First Men go back to using the Godswoods, if they were so scared of the Three-Eyed Raven watching them?”

“We found a sword in the crypts,” said Ned. “It must have been the original Ice, because… because it was made of ice, like the weapons of the White Walkers.” He glanced at Sansa. “I’m still not convinced, but Sansa has suggested it is evidence of a trade.”

“Why hide it?” asked Sansa. “Father says it may be a trophy, but why would our ancestors have hid a trophy? No, I think they had to have been ashamed of it, and that only makes sense if we won it peacefully, somehow – as part of a trade, or as part of a peace agreement, or something. We’ve been warning people of the coming winter for thousands of years, and why would we hide away the proof of the White Walkers’ existence if there wasn’t some kind of shame attached to it?”

“None of that means that we traded with the White Walkers, or that we had any kind of agreement with them,” pointed out Robb. “How would we, anyway?”

“The Night’s Watch deserter said that they spoke to each other,” said Jon. “Maybe our ancestors learnt it, same as we could learn any language.”

“What kind of agreement would we have made?” asked Ned. “There are holes in your theory.”

“But not the inescapable kind,” said Arya. “We might be able to find answers in the crypts.”

“Do you believe Sansa?” asked Catelyn, looking directly at Arya.

“I’m not sure,” said Arya. “All I know is that the Three Eyed Raven isn’t who he said he was, so we can’t trust anything he said. But the Night King didn’t offer any parley…” Nothing fits together, thought Arya in frustration. If the Three-Eyed Raven was a threat, was he the same threat as the Others? Was he a separate threat altogether?

The Old Gods were meant to be the ones living in the weirwoods. Where did they fit into all of this? Did they exist at all, or had it always been the Three-Eyed Raven rustling in the trees, leading people to exactly where he wanted them?

For all of that, though, some things fit far too well for Arya to dismiss them. Sansa’s theory made sense: why else would Ramsay have been sent back? There was no way Ramsay Bolton would have ever even considering helping to stop the Others. If it had been the mistake of a boy who couldn’t fully control his powers, or the deliberate sabotage by someone who could, then the puzzle pieces began to slot together.

“Robb said, once, that the White Walkers now probably aren’t the same as in the Long Night,” said Jon. “Perhaps this Night King is more ruthless than the last.”

“Perhaps,” sighed Ned. “We need more information.”

“But we have enough information to say this: we must be careful in what we say before the Heart Tree,” declared Catelyn. “Avoid it whenever you can.”

“We can’t,” whispered Sansa. She cleared her throat and repeated herself. “We can’t. If we suddenly stop discussing things before the Heart Tree, then he’ll suspect that we know.”

“So we keep feeding him information?” scoffed Arya in disbelief.

“Some,” said Sansa. “Not our most important plans and our secrets, of course. Sometimes we might even deliberately mislead him. But if the Three-Eyed Raven is a threat, we need to keep him unaware that we’re on to him for as long as we can, so he has less time to outmanoeuvre us.”

“Sansa…” Ned shook his head, his forehead creased with worry. “I know that you have played the game of thrones and that you have won, but if all of this is true, than the Three-Eyed Raven will be far beyond anybody else in Westeros. He will have had millennia to plan. It might be best for us to remove ourselves from his game altogether.”

“But we can’t remove ourselves from his game,” argued Sansa, jutting her chin up defiantly. “Don’t you see? Whatever his game is, it has to do with the Others. So long as the Others are marching on us, we are a part of his game. The only option we have is to outplay him.”

#sansa stark #arya stark #ned stark #jon snow #got #fic

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medschoolash · 5 years

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Bran's the centerpiece of the show's magic-driven narrative. I personally expected Bran to discover either the origin of WW (what was the point of CotF flashbacks etc) or how to stop the NK in a way that's more magic oriented than stabbing him (they could have made the creepy symbols relevant or whatever). Bran was the audience's POV into the story's own lore. With how it played out, the magical aspect of the story that's been staggered for 7 seasons comes off looking like a waste of time.

Bran is the centerpiece of the show’s magic driven narrative and he’s been heavily intertwined with everything that has happened since he returned to Winterfel. He’s the reason they were even able to prepare in time. He’s the only reason they had any indication about the NK’s movements all this time and weren’t blindsided. He’s the reason Arya even had the opportunity to take that shot in the first place.

Dany got the NK one of one and she was powerless.

Jon attempted to sneak up on the NK to hopefully deal a death blow and the NK sensed him from yards away and turned around and rose his entire army right in his face. No one else could have drew the NK to them besides Bran and that was possible because of the magic he possessed. Arya is NEVER getting that chance if not for Bran’s powers and Winterfel is never getting a real shot at defending itself if not for Bran’s powers so once again I really don’t see how Bran’s magic wasn’t vital here. I think a lot of people were expecting this massive expansion to the magic and lore that never came and are disappointed the story played out within the confines of it’s already established lore.

They established long ago that Valryian Steel could kill a walker. They established long ago that fire would do nothing to stop him. They established long ago that the NK would hunt Bran down to kill him for as long as it took and he specifically targeted Bran because of his magic. They established long ago that Bran would only war basic animals and minds like hodor’s. It was never canon that he could warg a dragon or that he possessed some other magic that has never been seen before and was somehow powerful enough to kill the NK. It’s weird that people wanted this randomly introduced in the 5th hour while also complaining that D&D disregard the show’s history and lore. The previous 3 eyed raven also had no other magic that was effective against the NK BESIDES SEEING. Which is why he died and passed everything he had on to Bran if the three eyed raven alone could defeat the NK then he would have been defeated already. It had to be group effort by the blood of the North. It’s why he knew that Bran was the key. Brandon Stark, the high born crippled son of Eddark Stark, the literal blood of WINTERFEL was the only person in the world capable or drawing the NK to him, to winterfell, to that heart tree where he would meet his end. Arya Stark ,the high born daughter of Ned Stark, the literal blood of Winterfel was the only person with the skill and the guts to look death and the face like that and be able to land that blow on the night king that was facilitated by her brother. So if you ask me they more than proved that not only was Bran the heart of the shows magic but HOUSE STARK WAS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN AT THE HEART OF THIS STORY AND EVERY STORY EVEN WITHOUT NEW MAGIC. They used the gifts of ancestors past, the seeing, the wolves, the tenacity, the fearlessness, the heart tree, the determination, the long suffering to reach this very moment, it was all for this moment and they saved the whole world.

That’s what the story has always been about to me, that’s the heart of the show itself and the magical aspects of this show to me. The Starks have always had a mystic aura around them. They’ve been tied to so many magical things but it’s not the magic that allowed the starks to endure all this time. Ned Stark wasn’t beloved because he was magical. Jon Snow isn’t followed because he’s magical. Robb Stark didn’t win battle after battle because he was magical. The Kings of past didn’t rule with magic despite their close tie to it. Arya didn’t kill the NK because she was magical. she killed him because she was brave, and gutsy and she had the skill and opportunity to do it. House stark is magical, but they are beyond magic which is why they are our heroes, their heart, their humanity, their unique tie to the mystical without having that define their entire being is what sets them apart from the NK and the Targaryens at the end of the day.

As far as the cotf goes…. Bran didn’t have to discover how they WWs were made this episode, he already learned the history. You ask what was the point of the flashbacks were when that has already been answered. It was to show Bran and the audience the history and how they were created. I’m really not sure what else you wanted from that since the questions were answered long before the battle. When the NK approached WF Bran and the audience already knew everything there was to know about the NK. They knew his origins, his motives, and his power. There was nothing left for Bran to know or reveal.

#bran stark #house stark #got commentary #Anonymous

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insp1rationalx · 5 years

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Spoilers for Game of Thrones season 8 episode 5 below

Just as a warning I did not enjoy this episode, and this post is going to be very negative. I have very few good things to say about this episode so if you genuinely enjoyed it then this probably isn’t the post for you. I don’t want to taint anybody’s perceptions if they enjoyed it, I hate spoiling the fun for others. On the other hand, if you like reading more negative (and maybe overly harsh) reviews or you just want a hot take then feel free to read on.

Honestly, I really hate to say this, but this episode was by far my least favorite of the entire series for many reasons; the main reason that I’m going to complain about is the fact that the writing was not good at all in my opinion. This 1 hour and 20 minutes episode did not need to be this long. There was so much unnecessary editing and prolonged shots on the characters making shocked faces with no real purpose or meaning. Just a bunch of “Oh my gosh look at Daenerys! Oh my gosh look at the burning people!” Like yes we get it. No need to show each character doing it 10 times. I feel like this episode could have shaved off 20 minutes or even 30 minutes. There were so many moments during this episode where I realized I was just bored and unimpressed, and that’s horrifying to me because I have never felt that way before when watching Game of Thrones. There have been moments that I don’t find as captivating or interesting, but I would never go so far as to say I was bored and just excited for the episode to be over. It didn’t feel epic, or badass, or shocking, or tense. Just a whole lot of blah for me.

I feel like the whole bit with Daenerys looking like she is going to show mercy when she hears the bells but then deciding to burn anybody anyway was pointless. The audience and characters already know Daenerys’ mental state isn’t great at the moment, and that the horrors of her life and immense pressure she is under are messing with her head. But Daenerys has never been one to go back on her word or her promises. She agreed to spare the people if she heard the bells, then did the exact opposite. It would have made far more sense for her to tell Tyrion immediately that she wasn’t going to listen to him and that she would just do what she felt is right. Tyrion had no reason to be shocked and mortified when Daenerys burned everybody. She is The Dragon, she is the Queen, and she has killed thousands before without hesitation. She views it as a sacrifice for the greater good which will come when she has secured the iron throne; he knows this better than anyone as her adviser. And Tyrion is incredibly intelligent. So why do I feel like he was so stupid this episode? There was no reason for him to help Jaime escape. Cersei has been nothing but cruel to him and Tyrion has no desire to help Cersei, and releasing Jaime was a guaranteed death sentence. Tyrion should have known his escape plan was destined to fail and that it wasn’t going to be an easy in-and-out secret operation. Its like a huge part of his character was completely forgotten.

Jon Snow dealt with the same thing that Tyrion dealt with. Huge emotional shock and dismay at Daenerys killing people but again, Jon Snow, you already knew this! You saw the destructive power and iron fist she rules with. You know how she gains power. You know that she will slaughter, readily, easily, for the sake of the millions across Westeros and Esteros. So why do you look so surprised? I understand that there’s this ongoing theme with Jon Snow wanting to see the best in people and then being surprised when he sees their true colors, but this one was even more blatantly obvious than all the others!

Jaime spent 8 seasons building and developing his character, both individually and alongside Brienne of Tarth. For all of that development and change to be discarded in the span of one episode, for the sake of a love that was mutually abusive and downright evil with how Cersei has treated him, is such a slap in the face to all the writers and producers/directors who did genuinely try to make his character multidimensional. And what did this ending for him accomplish? It just tells us that Jaime will always go back to his old ways -- except we as an audience already know that he doesn’t. This change in his character was so sudden and it came out of nowhere, with weird timing. In a show that tries to tell us that people aren’t always as they appear, that even horrible people are capable of great change, and that forgiveness can be given to anybody who seeks it, they did a great job a making a character who neglects to take part in any of that in the end. What a waste of potential. Even if he didn’t end up with Brienne, its still a waste.

And now Arya and the Hound. Well done Arya, you make it all the way to King’s Landing to kill Cersei and you turn and run as soon as the Hound tells you to. Since when do you take orders from him? Since when did you abandon the will to follow your own path? If she and the Hound faced Cersei and the Mountain together maybe they each would have survived, and Jaime could have gotten the fuck out of there without getting trapped in some dingy, dusty basement. Maybe the Hound wouldn’t have had to waste his strength and ultimately his life to take down an enemy that wasn’t even concerned with him at that point, because Arya would have been there to help him. Instead they think a slow-paced, anticlimactic fight is the way to go. Seeing them both go over the edge and into the flames was a relief because it meant I didn’t have to watch that pathetic fight any longer.

Also, Arya did nothing this episode except run around helplessly like the weak little girl we know she is NOT! Scared face after scared face, just her getting progressively grosser and weaker. Trying to help people even though its pointless and they aren’t going to do as she says. There was no point in her being in this episode if this is what we were going to get. She was so great at Winterfell! There was no need to taint her great victory against the Night King with this pathetic show.

Cersei Lannister is a great character, although I do not like her in the slightest. But I will admit, she is crafty, manipulative, and ultimately very rational. She makes calm and informed decisions, and always has a game plan ready to be put into action. Instead we were given a weak and quivering Cersei, who is in denial about the fact that King’s Landing will fall and she will lose this battle. This would have been a great opportunity to showcase these abilities and skills of hers. Instead she is just degraded and the essence of her character is lost. It would have been believable if we saw a slow deterioration into this shell of herself, but instead we were thrust into it and expected to believe it.

Yara’s part in the story was apparently forgotten. I guess shes just not relevant, so I don’t know why we wasted so much time on her. I would have really liked for her to ride in and face Euron but eh. Also, I’m glad Euron was killed, but I wish he wasn’t killed by Jaime. It just makes Jaime look like the jilted ex lover.

Overall I felt no sense of urgency, stress, fear, anticipation, or tension in this episode. Even when all those scorpions were pointed at Drogon I did not care after the first few seconds because it was so obvious exactly what direction this episode was going to go. That paired with the shallow portrayal of grieving for Missandei that we were so graciously gifted put a bad taste in my mouth immediately. I wanted and expected far more from this episode. I feel as though this was a pathetic climax (or near climax) for such a great and intense show. I feel as though my time has been wasted. If the last episode follows in the footsteps of this one then I do not have high hopes for my enjoyment of it, which is terribly concerning because other than this episode, I do quite like this show and its characters. But hey, I’m just a fan. At the end of the day the writers and producers are free to create whatever they see fit, and I have little to no right to make demands. I’m just disappointed. I want to like it but I just couldn’t.

Things I enjoyed in this episode

- Daenerys/Emilia Clarke is a goddess in my eyes

- Beautiful flying lizard breathes fire

- Cersei and Euron died

- ????

It means a lot when I say I disliked this episode almost as much as I disliked Avengers: Endgame. Because honestly... I don’t think I liked Endgame. Yikes.

I’ll add more to this post if I think of anything else

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