#logical way to go

[bigfatbreak]

Birds of a Feather previous / next

#my art #feralnette au #birds of a feather #long tags #sorry I went apeshit in the tags #LETS SAY IT ALL TOGETHER NOW #I - M - A - G - OOOOOOOOO #its fun drawing marinette's back to Alya and having her appear stout and unstoppable and totally logical #and then you see her face and she's like two seconds from completely snapping and is keeping it together by a thread #as a note just because mari feels very certainly abt smth doesnt mean she's right. feelings can be valid and also irrational #in the throes of grief she decided it was better to be alone than to lose someone again so she started pulling away #and lila made pulling away very very very easy to do #shes also vaguely aware she's being unfair in pinning this on alya which is why she started spinning the drain on cockmoth again #legitimately all the shit that's happened to her wouldn't have been so catastrophic if he was never in the picture and she knows it #but the bitterness of her bestie choosing a fantastic liar over her at the worst of times stiiiiiings #alya's personal timing was bad but lila really took advantage of the fact that marinette had been acting off and weird #she basically clocked marinette as being unstable from SOMETHING and made up a lie about her #knowing she wouldn't have the strength to defend herself #between her social life going tachy bc of lila and losing fu in a way that felt like personhood death marinette was really put on the spot #and alya doing her thing of busting in there and assuming her bias is correct was a terrible combo #essentially marinette is highly unstable and alya is just realizing that #busting in and giving her a lecture when she's slightly hysterical and definitely delirious from exhaustion is NOT the way #to show her she's self sabotaging #cuz thats just gonna make her double down on self sabotaging. bc marinette will not accept that she is also a CHIIIIILD

[radiance1]

The Ghost Prince does not, under any circumstances, answer a summoning after it was made aware he existed. None know why he doesn't, some are bitter and hateful of it while others are thankful that it's one less bloodthirsty manic to deal with.

The Ghost King meanwhile hasn't been seen in multiple eons, so the magical community who wanted to use his power just, stopped, trying to summon him for a long time.

Most magic users knew that the Ghost Prince never answered a summons, and that the Ghost King just dropped off the radar.

So could you really blame Constantine for not taking it that seriously when some wannabe hotshot cultists try to summon both of them in the middle of a city to wreak havoc?

He'll give them some credit though. Points for doing it in broad daylight and actually being somewhat of a threat with not relying on just summoning the Ghost royalty and figuring out what to do from there.

The area they were in was somewhat destroyed, then the cultists manage to complete the summoning circle to summon both of them and Constantine, well he just light up a smoke.

It isn't going to work anyways so what does it matter?

...

Is that a fucking Ice cream truck he hears? Who the fuck is driving an Ice cream truck while their city is being under attacked with cultists trying to summon eldritch ghost royalty?

He'll give them some points for dedication, though.

Then he looked at the cultists and nearly had a goddamn heart attack to see that the summoning circle is actually fucking lighting up and working.

The Bat is so gonna give him a headache over this.

----

Danny Phantom, crown prince of the Infinite Realms. Does not answer summons.

For one, it is annoying as shit, whenever someone interrupts his day just to ask for infinite power (that he can't give), world domination (that he won't do) or infinite riches (which he also can't do).

It just got annoying being summoned all the time so. One day he just, well, no. And hey, it worked out well enough for him to not continue doing it.

Then he also learned that Pariah Dark is basically the same, after he got out the coffin and stopped trying to take over the world for whatever reason. He was actually a pretty swell guy!

He was just with him too, with him being not so swell at the time for making him go through lessons about Ghost etiquette, rules, stuff that's expected of him as the crown prince.

And don't even get him started on the engagement and marriage proposals.

Overall, he just wanted to find an excuse to leave. Then he felt the familiar suggestive pull of a summoning and, instead of rejection as he usually does in a second. He thought for a bit if he wanted to go with that or crown prince duties.

It was tempting, but dealing with cultists seemed worse than this so he was about to reject.

At least, before he heard an Ice cream truck playing in the background. He doesn't even know how the hell that popped up through the pull but by the gods has it been a while since he's had Ice cream.

So he answers and is gone with a pop.

Pariah Dark just stares for a good second or two, before breathing out and deciding to also answer. Fright Knight is just there, off to side, questioning what he should do now.

Danny wastes no time with the cultists on the other side and in fact, he pushes them out of the way and goes diving for that Ice cream truck he hears. Only to realize he doesn't, have any money on him.

Fuck.

Pariah Dark is less inclined to follow the rules imposed by humans like money, but he does know it can be important. Once in a while. Not that often, but it has its times.

So when he sees his adopted son being sad over being unable to pay for some kind of human delicacy, he digs around in his hair (yes, his hair.) and pulls out some money and puts it on the counter as payment.

The man inside the tiny vehicle had shrieked before getting what they wanted. Which is good. Fear is a good motivator, Pariah thinks.

Unknown to him, it wasn't out of fear (Well, mostly) but because the Ghost King placed down a coin made of pure, solid gold on his counter.

The two then go about their business in the human realm, completely forgetting about the fact that they were summoned here for something.

Constantine is both relieved and about to have an aneurysm at seeing Infinite Realm royalty only answering a summon because of Ice cream.

#dc x dp #dp x dc #dp x dc crossover #pariah dark #john constantine #The Ghost King and Prince are known to not answer summons #both for different reasons #But Danny instantly answers one because he heard an Ice cream truck in the background #Pariah followed because he at first wanted to get Danny back to Crown Prince lessons #Only to be swayed by his puppies eyes and the absolute delicacy that is Ice cream #Pariah Dark is stuck in the medieval times in terms of money #He would literally pull out gold coins and pay for shit that way #He is rich rich #Like basically a neigh infinite supply of gold coins he keeps in his hair #Don't ask him how just ghost logic #They then spent the day going around to Ice cream shops and taste testing them #Poor Fright Knight is left alone wondering what he should do #Word spreads in the magical community about this and everyone tries it out #It does work #But if there isn't actually Ice cream you'll have an angry Ghost Prince to deal with #And an angry Ghost Prince leads to a less than cordial Ghost King

[the-agent-of-blight]

also, i really find it interesting how people can genuinely go about saying "Well this group isn't attacked for their identity so they can't be queer " while then turning around and. attacking said group. for their identity. and exemplifying classic __-phobic tropes. It's really dumb. You are being the thing that you claim does not exist

#this post is about the current aro discourse nonsense going about but is absolutely more generally applicable. #aromantic #aro #idk about anyone else but i always find the aphobia at least a little bit validating? in a weird way. because they're always saying #'you arent queer if you arent oppressed' or whatever bs. so whenever they turn around and. and attack us for being aro its like #they're showing me (and the rest of everyone) why i must be queer. by their own logic

[vela-pulsars]

a little experiment

#rainworld #looks to the moon #five pebbles #rainworld downpour #rainworld hunter #rainworld survivor #rainworld monk #rain world #i know i said i think that while monk has parallels with pebbles moon logically would have survivor #but im starting to enjoy the thought of moon having parallels with hunter as both are doomed to fall despite their best efforts #both terribly wanting to live despite being doomed #i see hunter as this energetic thing that thrives through the thrill of a life it knows deep down is going to be short #something brute forcing its way through its illness just to live a little longer #it and moon are made of the same stuff... neither wanted this fate so they struggle until the end against it

[greencarnation]

eleven is fascinating to me because he came right off the back of tens horrible traumatic breakdown after he lost everything and he immediately tried to establish himself as the opposite of that. he is funny and goofy and almost childlike, and he bulldozes on in his adventures with amy like nothing happened at all. but then something happens and his masks slips and it's like oh! the core of this man is still anger. he is so so angry all of the time and this façade is the only thing stopping him from being consumed by it. he isn't over any of it and he hasn't moved on. he is wearing a fez and laughing but under that all that exists is age old anger and grief and it is going to consume him

#i do think that this pit of anger was eventually covered and soothed by the ponds #but he didn't adress it and he couldn't even look at it until he was twelve #when he stopped pushing back and repressing everything and finally allowed himself to exist as he was #but ok listen #its all layed out in the first 3 episodes of season 5 and in the way amy sees him #episode 1. here is the new doctor he is energetic and reeling and fun #episode 2. the space whale comparison. here is the new doctor. he is unthinkably ancient and almost godlike but he is so so kind #and patient and good. he is ancient and lonely but he can't stand to see children cry. so the doctor helps people #episode 3. daleks. the doctor is a soldier. these are his age old enemies. he wants them dead and he will stop at nothing #all logic and reason vanish. he is hitting the dalek with a pipe and yelling his head off while amy watches in horror #like obviously we know why but amy didnt #this is not a sane or rational man he is unstable and angry #and in that episode he was stripped back to what he largely is: hate #you would make a good dalek ect ect ect #anyway 3 episodes with 3 very distinct and equally definitely traits layed out like: here you go #i don't like elevens era much but those first 3 episodes were great #doctor who #eleven #amy #eleventh doctor #matt smith #dr who #dw #i mean idk this is what river literally had to spell out for him #eleven was careening completely out of control #how long til doctor means warrior indeed? #mine

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

The four alignments of Tummy Hurt

#poorly drawn mdzs #mdzs #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #lan wangji #nie huaisang #bonus comic #Brought to you by: *my* tummy hurts #This is in teen-era for the sole fact that it was imperative that Teen Wangji be granted that caption #I too was a teen with extremely high expectations that gave me stress stomach pain. There's no way lwj's tummy doesn't hurt all the time #NHS says his tummy hurts to 1) get attention 2) get out of situations 3) act as a distraction so the real tummy hurt havers can sneak out #I never would have thought making a tummy hurt alignment chart would be a character analysis but #The underpinning logic here is about how these guys go through the motion of pain. I have a lot of thoughts that would exceed tag limits #I also just want to take the time to say: You don't have to be brave about it. No matter the pain you face. #Your tummy can hurt and you can tell people and be loud about it <3

[gummi-ships]

Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance - The World That Never Was

#kingdom hearts dream drop distance #khddd #the world that never was #scenery #my gif #i really love how sora's side of this world is dark and eerie and fully leans into how dreams can distort and twist reality #the city looks mostly normal at first aside from the ghostly fog that seeps down from buildings and drifts along the floor and rises up #but as you keep going the ground beneath you is no longer a street but rather the faces of more buildings that stretch over an abyss #it's no longer the sprawling city you first arrived in but instead an uncanny one way path towards your destination #the buildings now twist and contort and are crooked and grow out of the ground in all kinds of ways that make no logical sense #it's the first time that a sleeping world looks easily distinguishable from the real world. it looks wrong. like a nightmare #meanwhile riku's half contrasts heavily by appearing to be fairly normal #the interior of the real castle never made any practical sense so nothing here feels too out of place compared to how it usually looks #it shows how much more in control riku is in comparison to how sora is losing his grip on reality as he descends further into their trap #cool stuff! love me some environmental storytelling #also i finished giffing every world in this game yippee i'm done (is covered head to toe in blood)

[daily-odile]

pov: eon tries to explain why eating a star was a good idea, [eon design by @the-bitter-ocean]

bonus:

#the consequences of your actions #in stars and time #isat #isat spoilers #a6se spoilers #isat odile #isat loop #odile loops au #set in: bonnie loops; eon and loop as guides #''look if wish craft trapped us in the loops then wish craft is the way to get out of it. the logic tracks. the loops going over- #to boniface; was in fact; not supposed to happen;'' #loop beefing with eon will never be not funny to me #day 85 #That's probably enough eon for now; back to working on asks

[erabu-san]

Idol Tighnari !

Submit your request here !

Thank you so much !! 😭😭

#my art #genshin impact #genshinimpact #tighnari #genshin impact tighnari #daily tighnari #tbh when i saw the request I was wondering if Tighnari idol was a good odea or not #bcuz my guy is way too sensitive w loud #but yesterday I saw a cool video of tighnari idol and i said fuk logic he is cool so let's go #idea* gosh hating typo here #whatever i guess you are now used to if you follow me for a while 🫣

[falmerbrook]

Peryite is such an underrated daedric prince to me, conceptually. His sphere of influence has so much potential to explore. Like, disease and the natural order together? The way his followers see disease as a blessing? I love the implications there alone. He's the weakest prince, but his sphere has the potential to be so subtly destructive. One of his symbols, skeevers, represents that so well. The series has been kinda meh at exploring the princes philosophically but I feel like they are right on the cusp of something interesting with him, but since he isn't as flashy or obviously "bad" (or sexy) as the other ones he keeps getting put on the backburner. Gimme an interesting Peryite storyline pretty please. Explore things a little

#i saw a reddit comment saying that peryite/hircine/namira would be an interesting combo and i want it so so bad #like the 'natural order' trio. theyre all repulsive in some way but also sort of just a factor of life you cant fight against #i do not trust eso to do something interesting here though tbh. they use daedric princes a lot (too much) but it always just makes them #allies or bad guys and never really gets into their (or their followers) philosophy much #(from what ive seen so far) #mine #tes #the elder scrolls #peryite #relate him to the ecological role of disease or something idk #or if you want to go darker: population control or the way governments allow disease to affect those they want gone #actually get into the logic of why his followers follow him (although they rarely get into that for the other princes too so meh)

[uncanny-tranny]

I've talked before about how the way people treat suicide can be unintentionally devastating to the suicidal person, but I don't think I really ever said how to avoid that.

Speaking about suicide in how selfish it "is" ("think about how you'll transfer your pain to your loved ones!") might seem like a way to put logical sense into the suicidal person, but, honestly? It runs the risk of massively increasing their shame and guilt about being suicidal. Suicide is not inherently a revenge fantasy or a way to "get back" at someone's loved ones, so when the suicidal person is treated like a criminal of a "crime" they haven't even committed yet, you can imagine how unhelpful that can become.

Instead, if you want to point out how cherished your person is, frame their relationships as something they can keep fostering.

"Your cat will miss you :(!!!!" becomes "you and your cat seem close, right? I'm sure it's beautiful having a close friend like that!" and maybe include ways that they and their cat are close and meaningful to each other, tailored to that relationship.

That's only one example, but when you shift the focus away from why that person should repent and feel guilty for being suicidal, you can instead focus on why they would live for that reason. See how you can frame that as a positive? Whatever is keeping that person tethered should never be used as a bludgeon, I think, because then you're taking away why they're living, the positivity of why they are here. Whatever they are here for should be remembered often and honoured.

#mental health #mental health advocacy #mental health support #suicide #suicide tw #(after this i'm going to rant about being told the unhelpful narrative i included above) #when i was younger the thing i was told the most was that suicide would only transfer my pain to others... #...and is that true? maybe. was it helpful? no. #why was that unhelpful? #because i started using that as yet ANOTHER reason to feel guilty and to lash out against myself... #...because that didn't magic away my suicidality like it 'should have'... #...and that was ~obvious~ proof i didn't care enough about my loved ones to keep them out of harms way... #...and it can be really hard not to do that (give advice like that) because if you're not the suocidal person... #...you have the luxury of thinking without the burden they are labouring under... #...you can see 'logically' and make assumptions about what the other person 'needs' #it's just frustrating because i know that people like this want to help but i worry about *how* they are helping... #...in the sense that i want their efforts to actually help their person and bring them closer

[unpretty]

what do you MEAN robins are Alfred’s fault are you telling me he’s going around with a butterfly net like AHA I GOT ONE

tldr in sorrowverse batman might have been able to talk dick grayson into staying home and not fighting crimes if he hadn't found out that bruce wayne was batman. which he did. because someone got so offended by the hypocrisy of bruce complaining about the small child entrusted to his care refusing to cooperate and constantly putting himself in danger that it overrode his good sense. this was a terrible idea and now robins are a thing that exist and alfred will never admit that this was all his fault.

#original #ficblogging #he was too mad to logically consider how this would go #somehow he thought this revelation would make bruce confront the unfairness of it all #and maybe he would cut that shit out once he realized what he was doing #instead alfred now has TWO children endangering themselves #why did he ever think this would go any other way #IF YOU WANT HIM TO STOP THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STOP FIRST alfred says #FINE THEN I WON'T STOP HIM I WILL TEACH HIM TO DO IT RIGHT bruce says #NO ABSOLUTELY NOT WHY WOULD THAT BE YOUR SOLUTION GET BACK HERE YOUNG MAN alfred yells out the open window

[hellhoundlair]

will never get over the fact that sams grief after dean died in season 3 turned him into the same revenge obsessed man their dad became after mary died. the fact that thats not subtext or whatever thats just the show.

#sam pre dean dying being like john pre mary dying is also going to make me insane btw #like i know this logically like it isnt a secret thing hidden in spn. its just the show. but im realising it againa nd its like man i cant #believe this shit. the way their relationship is so romantic despite them being brothers. im abt to kill ppl. insane. #they loved each other so much. waaah

[fictionadventurer]

What was the point of Scrooge's trip with the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come? On a structural level, it makes sense--three is the fairy tale number, and you can't visit the past and present without also including the future--but on a character level, it doesn't quite seem necessary. Showing a man that he'll die alone, unloved, and unmourned seems like the strategy you take as the last-ditch effort to convince a guy that he needs to change his ways. But that situation doesn't apply to Scrooge. He started softening immediately after he first arrived in his past. By the time he finished with the Ghost of Christmas Present, he was fully onboard with the need to reform, so the Ghost's vision of his future seems like unnecessary cruelty. Why show him all this when he was already planning to change his ways?

A few things come to mind. One is that this vision of the future wouldn't have affected Scrooge unless he had already changed his ways. A cold, hard businessman could have seen his lonely death as just the way of the world, might have viewed the people who stole the clothes from his corpse as just people doing what's practical in this world. He needed to relearn the value of the intangibles--human connection, respect for others--to see the true horror of the lonely death and the vultures who defiled the dead man.

But why the horror? Can't he reform without being threatened with doom? It's possible--but it's also possible such a reform would be temporary. After all, Scrooge started as a friendly, loving young man, but retreated into himself and his business out of fear of poverty and fear of the way the world looks down upon poor people. Even if a reformed Scrooge started on a course of Christmas charity, there was always a chance that the enthusiasm would fade, and the worldly fears would start creeping back in. The only way to beat those fears is to give him something to fear that's even worse than poverty. He needs to see the horrible end that his selfish ways would lead to, so he won't be tempted to slide back into them.

There's also the fact that seeing his death makes him ecstatically happy to find that he's alive after the Ghost is gone. Had Scrooge been spared the vision of his future, he might have been happy to find himself on Christmas Day, but his joy would have been nowhere near the manic glee he experiences after coming back from the future. Now, he doesn't just get a new start--he gets a second chance. Coming back from his own grave makes him mindful of his death, but it also makes him hyperaware of the fact that he's still alive. He isn't in the ground yet. He still has time to do good and make connections with others so he doesn't die alone.

Seeing the past reminded him of the innocence he'd lost. Seeing the present reminded him of the people whose lives he was missing out on. Seeing the future reminded him that death is waiting, so it's important to live virtuously while we can. All three are important because all three brought him outside of himself and taught him to value the wider world, just in time to live through another Christmas Day.

#a christmas carol #charles dickens #once again i've ponderously worked my way to the explicitly stated moral of the story #but i had to work my way there because stave 4 left me unsettled #had i been scrooge that trip probably would have squashed any desire i had to reform #the ghost *doesn't say* whether or not the future can be changed #what if this is just proof he's doomed no matter what so why bother changing? #fortunately scrooge was much better than i was about logic #namely: no reason to show him this future if it *can't* be changed #the point of these ghosts is to save him from marley's fate #plus we did have the ghost of christmas present's implications that future shadows can be changed #it's kind of interesting when you step back from familiar stories that just go this way because it's how they're supposed to go #and really dig into 'wait a minute. why did it go like this?' #it usually winds up with me figuring out that the writer knew what they were doing #but it's also nice to see the scaffolding that got us to the story

[chiropteracupola]

granby + iskierka + keynes

#em draws stuff #em is posting about temeraire #temeraire #iskierka #john granby #doctor keynes #<- I do not know if keynes ever gets a first name so This Shall Do for tagging purposes for the present moment #speaking of which. my logic here is that granby is always getting whopped upside the head and stabbed and shot and dropped from high places #and therefore I think he should maybe cultivate his relationship with his crew's surgeon. because he is going to Need to. #keynes now. My Friend Keynes. I reallyreally would like to know More About Him and how exactly someone ends up as an aerial corps SURGEON #what is UP with this man I would like to KNOW about him #I would like to write fic even maybe. Hello Sir. Your Backstory? #designwise he ended up looking like patrick gallagher who you may be aware of for his role as awkward davies masterandcommander #which was not entirely intentional but I did end up leaning into it as I went on with the drawing. #he looks a lot like many people's version of tharkay here... I should make an effort for distinguishing them by drawing More Tharkays. #either way. keynes and gong su my favorite tem characters I don't really see anyone drawing. my underappreciated blorbos... #(this is maybe because I'm only on book 3 but) keynes is certainly on page a deal more than certain fellows I could name #anyWay. we are slowly creeping up to drawing BigLarge Iskierka but not all the way there yet. Stay Tuned.

[utilitycaster]

You know what's interesting to me? For all people keep claiming at every juncture that perhaps Bells Hells will come around on the gods and see the harm they do (which, as discussed extensively, is, half the time, simply not intervening) not only have they never done so, but also they never quite cross the line into saying the party should join the Ruby Vanguard or aid them - and indeed, they defend against it - so what does this achieve? It feels like they're asking for a story in which the party stands idly by, which isn't much of a story nor, if I may connect this briefly to the real world, a political stance anyone should be proud of.

That's honestly the frustration with the gods and the "what if the Vanguard has a point" conversations in-game. What do we do then? Do we allow the organization that will murder anyone for pretty much any reason that loosely ties into their goals run rampant? The group that (perhaps unwittingly, but then again, Otohan's blades had that poison) disrupted magic world-wide, and caused people who had the misfortune to live at nexus points to be teleported (most, as commoners, without means of return). While also fomenting worldwide unrest?

Those were the arguments before the trip to Ruidus; with the reveal of the Vanguard's goals to invade Exandria, the situation becomes even more dire. Do you let the Imperium take over the planet?

And do the arguments against the gods even hold up? If Ludinus is so angry at them for the Calamity, what does it say that he destroyed Western Wildemount's first post-Calamity society for entirely selfish means? (What does it say about the validity of vengeance as a motivator?) What does it say that Laudna told Imogen she could always just live in a cottage quietly without issue before the solstice even happened? (Would this still be true if the Imperium controls the world?) What does it say that when faced with a furious, grieving party and the daughter she keeps telling herself was her reason for all of this, Liliana can't provide an answer to the question of what the gods have done other than that their followers will retaliate...for, you know, the Vanguard's endless list of murders. (That is how the Vanguard and Imperium tend to think, huh? "How dare your face get in the way of my boot; how dare you hit me back when I strike you.") She can't even provide a positive answer - why is Predathos better - other than "I feel it", even though Imogen and Fearne know firsthand that Predathos can provide artificial feelings of elation. Given all the harm Ludinus has done in pursuit, why isn't the conclusion "the gods should have crashed Aeor in such a way that the tech was unrecoverable?"

Even as early as the first real discussion on what the party should do, the fandom always stopped short of saying "no, Imogen's right, they should join up with the people who killed half the party," it was always "no, she didn't really mean it, she just was trying to connect with her mother." Well, she's connected with her mother, and at this point the party doesn't even care about the gods particularly (their only divinely-connected party member having died to prevent the Vanguard from killing all of them). So they will stop the Vanguard; as Ashton says, the means are unforgiveable. As Laudna says, it's not safe to bet on Predathos's apathy. As Imogen says, she's done running; the voice that she used to think of as a lifeline belongs to someone she doesn't trust. So I guess my question is: if they're stopping the people who are trying to kill the gods (and defense of the gods isn't remotely their personal motivation)...do you think the next phase of the campaign is Bells Hells personally killing the gods? Reconstructing the Aeor tech and hoping none of their allies notice? How does this end? Does your ideology ever get enacted? Or is this entirely moot and pointless and the story ends with Bells Hells saying "well, I'm really glad we stopped the people who [insert list of Vanguard atrocities from above]; none of us follow the gods or plan to, but honestly, the status quo we return to is preferable to whatever nightmare Ludinus had concocted in his violent quest for power and revenge"?

#i've got a lot to do today so I think I'm done posting but #cr spoilers #i called that this particular cohort of fans had empathy only for those like them and were terrified of player agency like. 18 mos ago #and i have never been proven wrong. zero analysis just a constant demand that everyone coddle their feelings and confirm their biases #literally will straight up fabricate lore and cry you're disrespecting a pretend person for not including it in your considerations #absolutely SHIT understanding of actual lore. utter incapacity to follow a logical throughline to its conclusion #it's like. wow. wonder why you're so focused on hypocrisy and you overreact to the word selfish #the reason they hate or fear orym (they say they don't...but that just means they want him to go to a reeducation camp instead of die) #is bc i think they are truly terrified of the idea that people can not just hold opinions that are against theirs but stand fast by them #easier to stan the villain because then they die and you can feel wronged and betrayed and wallow in a sense of continual victimhood #than to like a character who might last long enough to call you the idiot and asshole that you are #but it's also funny bc literally if orym weren't there in the latest convo the conclusion is the same. #ashton's had the same opinion of the vanguard the whole time (and it's not positive) but that's not under scrutiny #probably bc it doesn't allow people to be ghoulish in the most cringeworthy way possible