#not me doing s8 discourse...

[francy-sketches]

People complaining that jon and dany didn't have kids in s8 is so silly to me bc the idea of a reanimated corpse being able to reproduce is just. if it happens in the books I'm gonna piss myself

#.txt #not me doing s8 discourse... #not that I think d&d were above writing that but it's so stupid #grrm about beric: he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating his blood isn’t flowing in his veins #like do you think his dick and balls are working #what makes you think jon would be different #yes I can accept dragons but I draw the line at zombies nutting -_- #it's just so antithetical to the way resurrection works in asoiaf like. he should not go on to have a normal human life fuck off #anyway idc if you want jon and dany to have kids like have fun with your ship #I mean I want tommen and myrcella to live a long happy life with their dad so. we're all entitled to our delusions #just annoys me when people call it bad writing. them not having kids i mean not s8 in general #when my little meow meows die horribly im not gonna call it bad writing #tumblr user francy sketches dont make every post about the lannisters challenge (impossible) (gone wrong) (cried)

[scoobydoodean]

You know what just really frost my cookies with the whole "Dean doesn't care as much about Cas" discourse??? That post you reblogged about how strong their relationship was in s4/s5 got me thinking about this, but like they had two seasons of such intense relationship building and camaraderie, that Dean was literally fighting Bobby and Sam (his two most important people!!!) over not trusting Cas in s6, and it was DEAN who tried to keep a relationship with Cas s6 - s8, like that man tried everything to keep their relationship going - and that's not to blame Cas, he had his own shit going on (well except for s6, I do blame him for that lol his position is understandable, but it was still his fault), but Dean tried and it still just never worked.

Maybe this is just me, but I've always kind of viewed their relationship in the later seasons as, Dean worked hard to keep them going for so long that eventually it kind of just...hit him that maybe Cas didn't want that? So he stopped trying quite as hard, he remembered the times Cas left, and he interpreted them as rejections, which is in part why the Divorce Arc happened - it was a culmination of many many MANY things, not just the "obvious". That's just my interpretation though, and obviously others have and can interpret it differently.

In summary I see it as, early seasons Dean chasing and pining after Cas, eventually feels rejected and betrayed, later seasons Cas chasing and pining after Dean

Though to be fair and admit to my biases, I was watching s6-s8 in real time on TV, and then I drifted away mid s9 and didn't go back and watch the rest of the seasons until recently, so my strongest impressions of Destiel are of those earlier seasons, so I tend to view it in a different light I think than people who started watching later (or more specifically after Nov 5th and/or for Cas - not that anything is wrong w watching for those reasons lol)

Yeah I think it is very very silly to think that Dean doesn’t care about Cas as much as Cas cares about him. Like wildly so.

I think this line of thinking comes mainly from focusing too much on one character's POV. I think Dean came off a few times in season 6 like he saw his relationship with Cas as transactional—even though that isn’t imo how he actually felt about Cas (just like we can analyze Cas as thinking of his relationship with the Winchesters as very transactional but he does care about them despite how it appears). I think Dean was just kind of hurt because Cas had ghosted him for so long and he thought they were friends and they'd built this bond? So in season 6, he was reacting to what he thought were the boundaries Cas himself set—boundaries that suggested Cas—the guy controlling the means of communication—did not want a friendship with him. Cas ditched Dean in the car at the end of Swan Song and then just invisibly watched Dean rake leaves. Dean was right there. Dean could only pray to Cas. Cas wouldn’t respond. In season 6, without giving Dean a say—while watching Dean rake leaves and considering whether to ask for his help—Cas decided (again--unilaterally) he wouldn't involve Dean, and I do think that decision was out of love, and also probably because... well—he probably thought "what can Dean actually... do?" But ultimately, he wanted a person he cared about who had been through a lot to just be able to rest—that's what he says. Not including Dean (and Sam) continued after Dean came back to hunting as well, because 1) Cas was still thinking about protecting Dean 2) He didn't think Dean could do anything to help (which I think is... probably pretty reasonable—he originally considered including Dean I think mainly for his tenacity) 3) the whole thing had ballooned and Cas was making deals he probably didn't even fully agree with himself—so he was ashamed to some extent, but also knew... he wasn't going to stop, and that Dean would ask him to stop.

Cas is... well—I'm going to say "more morally flexible"... and I don't think that's always a bad thing. This is a useful quality in the line of work TFW is in, honestly. He is more ruthless than Sam and Dean and he also knows that he is, and I think he actually likes to position himself as the ruthless one. He likes being the person who is willing to do what is necessary to get shit done and he's willing to sacrifice a part of himself to do it... because he can take it. He planned to kill Jesse behind the Winchester's backs to spare them the unpleasantness (and the same, later, with Kelly and Jack—when Sam and Dean were looking for a way to save both of them and Cas just went to go find Kelly and kill her). He broke Sam's wall and killed a very good friend—Balthazar—because his friends were standing in his way and he was focused on his ultimate purpose which was stopping another apocalypse. He mind tortured Donatello because it needed to be done. I think that Dean understands that Cas wants to position himself as the ruthless one, and I think Dean also understands that this isn't always a bad quality. I also think it's an obvious point of contention, because Dean is the least morally flexible in the group and is the most tenacious, which I think Cas, in turn, appreciates about Dean—but it is going to lead to clashes between them as best friends with one being tenacious about choosing the least morally crooked path when possible, and the other saying "Can we please just get on with it? I'll do it if you don't want to—I don't mind."

And that's... to some extent, what is happening in season 6... besides the lying and the hurt besties feelings and secrets and betrayals. The actual soul swallowing plan? It's Dean's tenacious insistence on following a more prudent path versus Cas's "Let's get the fuck on with it"... and there's fairness to both sides of that imo... which is why I'm annoyed with certain individuals trying to make this a "sides" thing. It isn't the actual plan as much as it's what he did around it that's the issue, and Dean isn't obligated to agree with him or to trust him after he lied so many goddamn times. Like. Dean's trust was not something to which Cas was entitled, point blank.

You're right—Dean didn’t think Cas would ever lie to him like that in season 6. He couldn’t believe it. He refused to believe it. And I think fans do this thing actually where they hear Cas say in season 6 that he’s always trusted Dean and he always comes when Dean calls and they just buy into that and go “Yeah! That’s so true!” and build an entire analysis on that (and then post insufferable parallels between that and 4.21 thinking they are saying something about Dean's "trust issues" when they are... making a very different parallel lmao). What Cas is saying about always trusting Dean isn’t true—and what’s more, Cas knows it isn’t. He knows suggesting Dean doesn’t trust him enough isn’t fair. When he was spying on Sam and Dean and Bobby he made specific note of “Dean trying so hard to be loyal” and defending him fiercely. (In fact—was there anyone Dean trusted more at that point in his life—despite also clearly being hurt by Cas ghosting him? Bobby, maybe. That's about it.) When Cas came back and tried to retroactively claim entitlement to Dean’s trust, he suggested an imbalance of trust because he was trying to dig into that part of Dean that is loyal to his friends. In other words, he was telling a lie for manipulation purposes, and that's just the damn truth. It isn't some crap about Dean having trust issues. It's Dean not buying some crap Cas is trying to sell—a twisted picture he is trying to paint to avoid doing something worse to get Dean out of his way.

It is insane for people to say Dean doesn't care about Cas as much as Cas cares about him though when you consider Cas hurt someone Dean loves just to keep Dean out of his way—he broke Sam's brain—Sammy's brain—and Dean still found a way to forgive that despite all of the trauma he has wrapped up in protecting Sam, and then he fought 360 degree combat through Purgatory looking for someone who abandoned him. Then while that person was beating him to death he was looking up at him calling him family and Cas again abandoned him. Any time Dean expressed affection for Cas there was a good bet Cas leaving would follow quickly. But Dean approaches Cas in a way the majority of fandom refuses to approach all of the characters—with an understanding of his motivations and hangups and intentions and what is in his heart (and Cas approaches him the same way). Despite it all, Dean knows that Cas cares about him. He doesn't understand why Cas won't include him though—or he does, and the reasons aren't okay with him and Cas will. not. stop. and that is the ever growing festering wound that leads to the divorce arc. It is absolutely 100% a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation. Dean's frustrations with Cas's unilateral decision-making are not... ever dealt with. Cas wanting to ghost Dean is not ever dealt with. Cas Malewifing sidelining Dean whenever he damn well feels like it by just refusing to answer the phone is not ever dealt with. Because each time it's discussed, it happens again. The ultimate narrative is just that Dean should be expected to accept it, and be grateful, and I don't think that's fair. I don't think that refusing to communicate is something that Dean should have to put up with from his best friend. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But more than that, I'm sad that it's something Cas isn't allowed to grow from, because that tendency—that desire for that secrecy and control of the means of communication and that desperation for martyrdom—that is coming from a place of great pain for Cas—a wound—and it's a deep one, and he deserved to get to start to close that wound up and heal.

#mail #dont feed the stans after midnight

[thirddoctor]

how are you endlessly whining about people being mean about twelve and calling them wrong just because their opinion differs from yours, only to then shit on ten constantly. I honestly love your blog and it's rare to find good blogs passionate about classic who but it's been a bit much lately. if people after s8 decided twelve is not a doctor they like, that's fine and they can express that just as much as you can express your dislike for ten and I see no point in putting their personal taste down as "incorrect" because they didn't force themselves through more seasons of something they hated/disliked, while you constantly shit on dw you don't like. being a twelve AND ten fan on this website is honestly unbearable, his fans have soured liking twelve for me so much because the only way they know to defend him seems to be putting other fans and eras and doctors down.

I mean, yeah, people can feel however they want about Twelve, which is specifically why I've been whining about it here, to keep myself from being dumb and starting shit with anyone in the notes. If they were complaining about him on their own posts instead of on mine where I have to see it, it would be fine. I'd still disagree, but it's not actually a big deal. It's just a really frustrating thing I've had to deal with where every time I've made a New Who post that's gotten any kind of traction (even ones that are explicitly meant to be positive), people leave nasty comments about the Moffat era. (This is why I have a personal policy of never leaving negativity on someone else's post, because I know how much it sucks. I'm not a big Chibnall fan, for example, and I've made no secret about this on my own blog, but when I reblog Thirteen era posts I keep my mouth shut because I'm sure those fans are having to deal with all kinds of negativity already.)

I'm sorry your experience in the fandom hasn't been good, and in general I think everyone needs to be more chill. I literally unfollowed almost every DW blog I was following in 2020 because the toxicity and discourse became too overwhelming, and I'm sorry if I've contributed to that for you. Though I'm honestly a little confused because I barely talk about Ten? (My comment about his insufferableness was specifically in the context of the poll, not a judgment on his character - I think some Doctors I love like Two would suck as well.)

So yeah, I'm not sure what you're referencing there, but again, sorry if something I said is adding to your discomfort in the fandom. Any time I have anything actually negative to say I tag it as #dw criticism or dw negativity, and I can tag general discourse posts too if you want? Though I don't actually do a lot of DW discourse most days, this all just came up because of the polls. In a couple of days I'm sure I'll be back to making unnecessary Three era gifsets.

Edit: I realise there was also this, but I meant that lightheartedly. I genuinely don't hate Ten or any other Doctor.

#Replies #Anon #Ranger shut up about Doctor Who

[thesilverlady]

(a bit of rant) the Hypocrisy is truly the only thing that destroyed my enjoyment of hotd/f&b people take the whole team thing waaay to seriously as if we're rooting for footballs teams and not an interesting story that could be analyzed and interpret in many ways . not to talk about the moral police who attack you for enjoying problematic characters\ships but also go in their way to enjoy other problematic characters\ships. like the asoiaf fandom was become waaay worse than it used to be after GOT s7\s8 for some reason

I completely get it and I'm sorry they sucked the enjoyment out of you.

I'll admit I used to get frustrated over some people who would say "it's just color wars" or "they all suck so pick a fav criminal and move on" 'cause in my mind that meant they didn't understand or appreciate the story told from the book but after taking some time offline and touching some grass, I came to the conclusion that while I can't and shouldn't push my interpretations onto others I also don't have to put up with terrible takes I see.

I'll admit the fandom has become an extremely unwelcoming space: side 1: are the book purists who while I 100% can sympathize with wanting a faithful adaptation, I've often see them treating others like shit over crackships and toxic pairs, as if the entirely of asoiaf isn't built on that. The truth is they don't really care about "problematism" they just hate seeing a character they like being (what they consider to be) misinterpreted by others in fan content like fics, headcanon and arts etc.

Again I sympathize because I used to feel the same for another fandom (the grisha trilogy) but holding onto these feelings can only make you feel miserable. The two healthy solutions I've found are: either move on or create content you want to see - because I guarantee there will be others who want to see the same thing you do

side 2: show viewers who don't care about the book (which is valid. you can't force someone to read or becoming invested in the lore) but will also lose their mind over canon discussions because it doesn't match up with the version that exist in the showverse so that leads them to interpret the rest of the fandom as whining and lacking joy because "it's not that deep" and "why can't you just enjoy this"

side 3: is a mixed of both, which i consider the worst bunch because there's no victory with them. You show too much love for the book? Then you automatically hate the cast and you're -ist -obic. You love the show? Have you written 10 think pieces a day and support what is commonly accepted for the characters by the fandom? Because if you haven't you're a fake. You like a single green character despite not supporting their side of the war? You're obviously a misogynist. You ship non-canon ships? you're deranged. You ship canon ships? you're problematic and an apologist.

See?

the way I've come to treat asoiaf as a whole (including f&b/hotd side) is how I treat the star wars fandom (which consists of a similiar toxic fanbase):

a) don't. enter. discourses.

you'll never change anyone's mind and they'll never change yours. Only enter an argument if the person gives normal sanity vibes or is a friend and won't have a problem if you two have different opinions on something

b) treat it as a solo thing.

The way I view this account is basically. I throw a ball at a wall and maybe someone will hear the noise and come play with me. Can it lonely? Sure. But it pays off when someone sees the earning signs I've left on this account and still decides to interact on their own

c) Be the person you want to interact with

This one can be hard because emotions always have a way to get in the way, but try to be someone you'd want to hang out in a fandom. In the past, I've gotten asks that say even though they don't agree with some of my interpretations about the characters they feel welcome here in regards of "teams". That's something I've been aiming for myself.

Anyways as to recent fandoms have become a bit of a nightmare with hypocrisy obsessive need for censorship and morality lessons as well as the quest of ending "romanticization" of anything, it has become a struggle for many. Try to combat it if you're willing because there are definitely other people other there who feel exactly the way you do.

Otherwise, a pause for personal space and to take care of yourself is never bad. In the end, I hope you can re-find some enjoyment for this fandom and if you ever need to vent more about it my asks & dms are open and judgement-free ♥

#ask reply #anti hotd fandom #anti asoiaf fandom

[thestupidhelmet]

the more i hear about that 90s show the more i hate it. i know its being produced by netflix but a part of me wishes it'll be scrapped or a flop. im so tired of awful characterization and poor writing... we saw enough of that in s8

im so tired of awful characterization and poor writing… we saw enough of that in s8

This is why I didn't trust that any kind of T7S reunion or continuation would do the original show (S1-S7) justice.

(Then add several real-world developments related to the show, and ... no. The fictional characters are going to be warped beyond recognition.)

I'm not invested in T9S. It's in the same category as season 8 of T7S for me: not canon, so I can mostly ignore it (beyond seeing .gifsets in the T7S tags, which is inevitable). Of course, it brings up the sting of season 8 (like pouring lemon juice into a cut). But the T7S fanfic and discourse that have been written since season 8 began airing has eased the pain.

That being said, I have friends who are looking forward to the series, and I'm happy they'll enjoy T9S.

I'm also sure plenty of people I don't know will enjoy T9S as its own thing and/or not recognize the problematic character elements that will be pervasive throughout (the kind of elements that exist in T7S that I've written a bajillion comics and metas about).

#That 70s Show #That '90s Show #Eric x Donna #Jackie Burkhart #Kitty Forman #Spoilers #Ask #Anon #My Meta #My Essay #Meta #Essay

[sallys-system-n-kin-help]

Sallys system and kin help!

[icon cred :: this lil guy!] >><< [banner :: f2u ,, found on deviantart!]

Hello ! I'm Sally, a mod from @rxtten-kinhelp who decided to make her own blog! I use She/It/Siren, and requests will always be open, but may take a little to get too!

sources :: DSMP, OSMP, Hermitcraft (I've only watched s8 and a bit of s9 grian though, so bare with me!), Undertale, FNAF, MLP: FIM, Otherkin, MCYTs in general, Sanders Sides, Creepypasta, Minecraft in general, Coraline, more I'm definitely forgetting! Just ask and I'll see what I can do. Factkin requests ARE okay !!

request types :: Moodboards, Icons (+ Pride icons)(Please link a fanart you would like me to use!), headers (just lemme know what kind!), Pronouns and names, Canon calls, Headcanons, Gender finding, Doodles, Outfit boards, and timeline questions !!

dni :: basic dni criteria (racist, homophobe, pedo, etc), anti-mcyt, anti-dsmp, kin discourse, proshippers, nsfw/kink blogs, fakeclaimers, sysmeds/anti endos, transmeds, anti-jschlatt, those that participate in cringe culture, those who support yandere dev, those who don’t respect content creator boundaries.

Please have fun on my blog!

#sally.txt [she/it/siren] #I'll add the special tags later ! #[outfit board] we'll rant and we'll roar all on the salt sea! #[timeline questions] don't trust english boys with far too much free time. #[request accepted] we're setting sail! #[moodboard] you will heal and you will rise above. #[icons] i know my love can be the killing kind. #[headcanons] cause im so high my brain can't even look at the fall! #[my requests] i look up at the gaps of sunlight. #crew member bastard lovely! #crew member mercys timelines! #crew member aethnap! #crew member 👑🌱! #crew member 🥀❄️! #crew member manhunt dream #crew member 🔥💜!

[emodennis]

I don't know if you've been asked this question already and if I've just missed out on the discourse (sorry if this is common and boring!!!), but do you remember at what point watching sunny you became convinced that Dennis was bi? (I'm guessing this is your interpretation based on your amazing Dennis is Gay video on yt?)

I was filing away things in the back of my head right from episode 1 but mainly from around s4 and s5 onwards (I remember thinking the show seemed edgy, so they would try to do more than the average show from that time, while still being of the time). But it was still a bit of an ironic joke thing for me, until I realized around s6, and then s8 especially, that they were starting to take "Mac is gay" quite seriously in their writing.

i don’t think i’ve been asked this question before thanks for asking!! and thanks for your kind words about my video!!

yes, i am a bi dennis truther. however, i was not very perceptive nor analytical for the first 3-4 times i watched the show. i would pretty much always watch it high (and still do), not think too deeply about it, and just laugh. it was only after the always sunny podcast came out that i actually started thinking more about the show and the characters. i actually didn’t interpret dennis as bi or ship macdennis until it was pointed out to me by the good people on youtube and ao3 😭. i think i started shipping macdennis first, and then started looking for evidence that dennis also loves mac, and is therefore into men.

tbh i think a big part of me not interpreting dennis as queer is because i hated him so much for so long. he represented everything i hate about straight, creepy men in my mind so i wouldn’t have wanted him to be queer representation. but after i started falling for him, i wanted him to be queer so bad :,)

but if i had watched the show after i was on tumblr and had “i love evil people” and “everyone is gay” as an inherent perspectives going into the show (as i now do), yeah i’m pretty sure i’d see it from s1e1.

#sorry this is so late i just now had the time to answer!! #asks #phoenix talks

[kmze]

You are absolutely right,Kris.That was clearly her claim to 5 seconds of relevance moment.I don't know if she did anything after tvd and I never kept track of that verse or any discourse related to it after the show ended.But if that tweet was able to reach me along with some of her recent commentaries of possible "relationships", then she knew exactly what she was doing.Maybe drumming up support for a possible reboot?Yeah I heard that one too recently( 'perks' of having a tvd obsessed teen niece,you see).

I was reading your s1 review earlier and quite enjoyed it.Do continue if time permits you.I haven't had the time or interest to rewatch TVD again.This was the first show I was emotionally invested in and by the end of it,JP made sure I would never wanna go back to it.

I do miss Stefan-Caroline a lot though.I miss Stefan "Where do I belong" Salvatore,who had me intrigued the first time I met him in September, 2009 even though my friend made me watch the pilot for Ian.I miss my baby girl,Caroline "I try so hard" Forbes".The treatment of Caroline Forbes in that season was beyond horrible although I would say s7 was on that same level.Ironically, that was not a KW season but ran by that demon.

I do quite agree with your analysis as to why Plec didn't go back to SE even though she had the perfect opportunity to.The Human Stefan storyline almost had me convinced they were going in that direction which was probably why I had a hard time sitting through the last few episodes.TVD had become so emotionally draining.Caroline-Stefan scenes were like a bright light in a sea of Awfulness that show was.

Hey Anon, I believe she's done a few things since the tvd 'verse ended but I do know that unlike TO and TVD Legacies did not get an official final season. Their series finale was supposed to work as both a season and series since the CW had been sold and JP knew it was possible the show could get cancelled. So I think that's why she's trying to get something done now. I absolutely believe her tweet was to engagement bait for either for herself or whoever is interested in the TVD 'verse continuing again to see how much interest is still there. Although I have no idea what could be in the works, I know at a con in December the question was about a movie but I'm not sure enough of the original main cast would be willing to return to make that happen. I mean majority of the characters are dead or human and I know a few actors have said they wouldn't be interested in returning (Kat, Ian and Paul) so I'm not sure what kind of movie she could make lol. Candice would probably come back (and since I'm a sucker that's all I would need) and maybe Nina (mostly I don't think she's a hard no) but I'm not sure that's enough for anyone to agree to finance this. Of course Teen Wolf got their awful movie financed so I could be completely off base.

The rewatch has been enjoyable so far (it's easier when you know the ending lol) and honestly S2 has been so much more engaging and interesting to me than S1 so I should have the first half of that season done this week. When I get to S7 is gonna be such a buzzkill from S6 I am so not looking forward to that slough especially the first half. I will always dislike Dries for what she did to Steroline that season UGH makes me mad just thinking about it.

Ha! The show became so emotionally draining that season worrying about what would happen. I hate the human Stefan storyline (I especially hate the STUPID CURE and how the rules change for how it works every time it's mentioned!) though I did enjoy how much he hated being human because the fandom always believed he wanted that but really HE HATED not having vampire powers. He only wanted to be human because of his addiction to blood, and don't even get me started on how him being a "reformed ripper" in S6 got completely dropped in S8. I do agree in a way about some of that awfulness and it's the same for me, while I did enjoy a majority of the seasons overall in the series the bright spot was 1000% Steroline, to me they're the best thing the show ever did. Now that I'm up to S2 in my rewatch it just reminded me of how good their slow burn was.

#anon for ts

[cactusringed]

i've been watching video essays and discourse videos in between hermit vaults releases and daydreaming silly little aus. mostly just been losing my stupid little mind over hypxb in the corner like. boys please. please s10 base. pleeease base together more. please kiss. i should probably get back to my xb s3 rewatch sometime soon but i'm in like. six places at once.

sighs. hypxb save me. save me hypxb. save me.

~ xB anon (<3)

Bruh I'm like a few eps into xb's s8 and I already ship them it's one of those pairings where it just takes. Having eyes. I don't think there's any saving from that I'm so sorry

Funnily enough I've been doing the same re: watch habits LOL. I'm not too much of a drama guy unless it's someone talking about drama from like a decade ago with a gentle historical lens rather than a "look at these fucked up people" type thing. That said, I found a channel recently that goes over fuckin knitting drama and it's fascinating. I love niche stuff like that lol

#Xbanon #Big kisses to u

[quaranmine]

so yesterday i saw that there was an upopular opinions thread on the hermitcraft subreddit. which i, like, immediately pegged as a bad idea due to my previous encounters with negativity on the subreddit. but i decided to not post about it because i figured that between og posts and answering asks i've made well over a dozen posts since january about this exact topic, and there ain't much sense to continue to double down on it. yall already know my opinions about negativity in the reddit community.

but then i saw this today and?? idk i just feel bad for the hermits. i know they've reinstated the post and allowed it to remain up, and that Xisuma apologized for the hermits' knee jerk reaction in asking to take it down, but i honestly don't feel like they were out of line when a lot of the comments on that thread got really personal. the comments may have been manually reviewed, but a lot of them were straight up complaints and harsh towards hermits and not constructive.

I'm not sure what to add, other than that I think we were right back in February to try and start a thing for being more positive in the comments section of the hermits' youtube videos. I think we were right in wanting to make an effort to be more vocal of our positive feelings rather than just lurking. I don't want them to feel demoralized. I make zero claims on knowing anything about their true feelings or personal lives, because it's not my business to speculate on, but we do know that more than one hermit is going through something difficult from their own statements about it. I also don't want to make anyone in the community feel like they can't express a negative opinion or give criticism because that's not a good look either. We don't need to become an echo chamber of only positive things.

But...I guess just overall. Let's maybe try to be encouraging? I personally comment on their videos more than I used to, but I still have a lot of work to do on that since I often still just absentmindedly click off onto something else.

#discourse #sort of. #negativity #idk it just breaks my heart to hear the words 'it caused a lot of pain to the hermits' #like...to my knowledge they didnt ask for the S8 crit posts to be taken down so like. how did that make them feel? #idk i feel like if i were going to complain about hermitcraft i would do it either privately or on a platform where they WOULDNT read it #anyway :sob: this just made me feel bad to see it made them feel bad #if u have thoughts i'll answer asks

[gardenerian]

hi mel! so i'm watching shameless for the first time. i knew the ian and mickey story beforehand but i've gotten it out of context essentially. basically, i'm on s8 right now and i feel bad that i don't like trevor.

although, we know who ian ends up with. trevor seems important and i feel bad for not liking him solely because he isn't mickey. i think there's other reasons why i might not like him but i can't articulate them. i tend to just skip their scenes but sometimes i don't and idk i'm having conflicted feelings?

i'm questioning, was trevor better for ian than mickey? i know the answer to that question but i'm questioning my answer if that makes sense.

i'm sorry for this ramble & if you don't like this particular discourse. i hope you've been having a good tuesday mx. mel :)

hi love! sorry for taking a billion years on this. i hope you are enjoying the show 💓 i wish i could go back and watch it for the first time! it's a special thing. and welcome!

whew. you are on season 8! you are a trooper. it's without a doubt my least favorite season, but there are still some good stories to be told if you push through! i can usually defend the mickey-less seasons as still worth it, but s8 definitely puts that to the test.

now! onto your dilemma. i totally understand you. you picked a very interesting blog to pose this question to! i am one of the few that doesn't completely dislike trevor. but! i maintain that you do not have to like him. i absolutely get why people don't. some of the hate does not make total sense to me - and some of it gets a little squicky for me. but. he is an underdeveloped character, and it think it was a huge waste. i think he could have been much better utilized! had they written this story better, i think he could have been a much bigger and positive addition to the show/ian's trajectory. but i still agree that he serves a purpose! and ultimately, i do not dislike him as much as i disliked caleb.

but - just because i like trevor (like is a strong word... really, the idea of him?) does not at all mean i think he was good for ian. the timing of that relationship was bad, the ultimate plot was bad, and the way he left was bad. i just. gah. i see potential that was squandered and i can't bring myself to write him off completely. THAT SAID. a big, emphatic no to him being better for ian than mickey. mickey sees ian in a way that caleb and trevor never really attempted. they are cut from the same cloth and they love each other unconditionally. even without their deep and intimate shared history, foundational as it is, they are better together.

so. i do not dislike trevor solely because he isn't mickey, but mickey in his own right is clearly easier to love. we know him! we love him for himself and as a brilliant partner for ian. so i totally get your struggle - it is a very tough storyline to get through. you never have to watch anything that you don't vibe with! there are some cringy moments that i tend to bypass as well. they do not bring out the best in each other, especially in s8. had they ended in s7, i'd understand it a little more. ANYWAYS. sorry for my own rambles. your thoughts are valid! and you never have to justify not liking a character. sometimes they just don't vibe! and that's okay 💓

#i know i am in the minority with this #i have said that i like him before #but it comes and goes #it's really more accurate to say i like the trevor that exists in my own head #askjdfh kinda like our shared version of carl #GAHHH #NOTHING gets me going like s7/s8 discourse #bring it on say i #anon i really do hope you are enjoying the show #it remains very dear to me #and ily! #thanks for the ask #mel answers #long post

[eileenleahy]

this ISNT birthday discourse this is only extremely slightly inspired by it but i would like to hear thoughts. do we think naomi and the other angels in charge of lobotomies were executing god's will or the heavenly host's will and to what extent do those things even differ

#i say very slightly inspired but not about birthday discourse whatsoever #bc that post thats like ''if cas was lobotomized prior to s8 that means he had free will'' #and all the other posts about it which im not arguing with i just am so wildly interested. i always through the angels and god were #*thought #executing different things yk. s15 complicates everything but the amount of flavor in this topic.... delicious #like YES cas was lobotomized in the rapture and he wasnt supposed to do lucifer rising BUT the s8 lobotmies make me think that the angels #have a degree of autonomy in when they carry out lobotomies. AND serafina leaving heaven to be with adam is soooo. HMM. just the amt of free #will (quote unquote) angels have been allotted makes cas' lobotomies so inchresting. im going crazy #maybe they executed god's will pre-swan song but after that and the mess chuck was dealing with things were different idk #free will in spn is soooo like. maybe sometimes spn is good

[donnieluvsthings]

dONNIE IM CRYING I JUST WATCHED THE LAST EPISODE IN SEASON 8 AND JUST *sobbing* 1) a l l u r a no please u can't do this to me 2) Keith is great he always was and he always will be 3) lance why'd u hafta go steal my 'we need u I need u' line smh not cool bro 4) sHIRO YES HELL YES HELL YES YOU KISS THAT BOY- 5) *screaming* - boop

ALFKALFKS YES GOOD OKAY ALLURA DESERVED BETTER

i need to rant about shiro at the end bc i have MUCH FRUSTRATION but feel free to ignore this bc its just me being angry alfkaldla

so basically i dont??? understand???? why they killed adam??????? if shiro was gonna get married anyway to some nameless character they couldve just had an ACTUAL DEVELOPED RELATIONSHIP between adam and shiro and bam. amazing

but noooo adam had to die to “show the reality of war” and adashi was never even confirmed in canon AND the creators were aware of bury your gays and STILL killed adam and i’m like !!! as much as it wouldve pained me, u couldve killed matt holt and it wouldve showed the reality of war better bc i had zero emotional attachment to adam after the, what, three episodes he was in?

okay thats all sorry i had to rant i’m glad u liked it and i have dragged u into shippng klance <33 i will post the shadowstruck stuff later i got distracted aldkald

#also u dont have to agree im not trying to make you hate it or anything alfkalfka <333 #i rant more in the tags bc i cant shut up about voltron: #AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON HOW LANCES ENTIRE CHARACTER ARC IS JUST #BASED ON BEING IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH ALLURA. #ALSO ALLURA AND CORAN DIDNT GET TO SAY GOODBYE TO EACH OTHER #listen i cried at the end of season 8 but it was far from my favorite season #plus they gave us the klance sunset scene they KNEW what they were doing i— #okay anyway stan voltron seasons 1 thru 6 <3 #sorry for the rant alfjalfkalfks this has been building inside me for two years #all caps #donnieanswersthings #boop!! #voltron #vent #??? not rly but aldkaldla #fandom discourse #maybe idk just in case lol #and keith & shiro had their UR MY BRO ILY moment and then. barely speak in season 8. what even is that. #and HONERVA AND ZARKON GOT REDEMPTIONS but not LOTOR— #apparently the only things i respect about s7 and s8 are the MFEs #and the atlas and Captain Shiro #/j im kidding there were other good things i’ve just had two years to be bitter aldkald #tw war #tw death #tw killing #ask to tag

[aceiato]

jaith just sounds so much more chaotic to me than jeith and i hate whoever made jaith the more popular name for this ship

#venti #not actually mad #i just #JEITH SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER #jaith is so #ugly #osguhdkjfh #jeith #please do not start actual discourse with me im just trying to have fun #she/ith fandom is already fucked im just gonna stay in my nice little shance heith jeith corner #and pretend like s8 didnt happen #and everyone is happy #and things are fine

[reginarubie]

Hi! Your response is amazing, everything about the anti-christ and D@ny fits perfectly! This is why i follow jonsas, they understanding about the books and the things they discover are wonderfull and inmense. Bravo!

Just little things questions i have: Did D@ny give a speech to the remaining people (in the final book one) about them being totally free from her? Or did the show gaslighted me? Also i know that satan in christianity gives this "propaganda" about free will in exchange of loyalty. This is not a recurring theme with D@ny, Breaker of Chains?

Ciao anon!,

thank you, I am happy you enjoyed and especially I would not have considered the Antichrist for a candidate for Daenerys' parallelism if you had not pointed it out, so bravo to you!

Now, I am assuming you might be a show only watcher, and might not have yet read the books, correct me if I am wrong.

To answer your question I might at first point out a small detail, that, if you have not read the books, might have escaped your notice.

Daenerys' whole journey (at least until the last book published, ADWD) is told exclusively by Daenerys POV. So as readers, when we read her side of the story, we are reading exactly that her side of the story, not the story. We are seeing it through her eyes so we are stuck on the way Daenerys sees herself more than on the way Daenerys actually is.

Only in the last book, ADWD, we've actually introduced to a new POV in her story, but that POV is of a person who has been with her since Astapor and is not a good judge of character in the books (a man who stood by as Aerys raped his wife repeatedly, a man who stood by as Aerys burned alive people and served Robert and would've served Joffrey had he not be dismissed even when that meant having Sansa beaten and humiliated in court the way Rhaella was abused by Aerys) — Barristan.

And Quentyn, but Quentyn is stuck more on his duty to Dorne than on how Daenerys is actually ruling, so he counts only in part on this matter and what he tells us is that he is as scared of possibly bedding her as he is of her dragons — meaning she intimidates him.

In the show the same things happens, in fact all of Daenerys journey is told by her POV and thus by her own reasoning and her own convictions. Which is why her theme is so triumphant and abrasive.

And while in the books we haven't yet reached a point in which we actually get an external POV of Daenerys (save for Quentyn, who, anyway, gets rejected and his focus is more on Dorne and his duty to Dorne than on Daenerys anyway, besides he dies soon enough for him not to be able to form an educated opinion on Daenerys and her policies) that can give us a new perspective on her, the show has given us glimpses of it.

Up until s7, in fact, all that happened in Daenerys-side-story was told by her POV; only in s7 with the Tarlys execution and Jon being on Dragonstone we get external POVs (but Jon's is pretty layered because of the whole political debate of his manoeuvring as I've already said in my previous reply to your ask, x) and later in s8 with the Starks (who are dubious and do not trust her) and Varys and KL. I will narrow a bit the matter or else we're going to discourse forever, let's narrow it to the woke moments she has:

These links will send you to her badass moments by her POV (hear the triumphant score):

Daenerys and the Undying: here

Daenerys and Astapor: here

Daenerys burns the nobles in Meereen: here

Daenerys burns the khals in Vaes Dothrak: here

Daenerys burns the Masters' fleet in Meereen: here

Daenerys and the battle of the Reach: here

It's pretty clear they're told only by her POV, as they are triumphant and show her defeating the evil masters who want to rule the world.

While from s7 things start to change, there are other POVs and the score is being added always later until not added at all to leave room for the screams of agony, terror and horror of the people who suffer because of her.

Daenerys burns the Tarlys (note: I'm never over Randyll Tarly, an hard man and a bad father first instinct to hold his son's hand before they are executed to comfort him): here

Daenerys burns Varys: here

Daenerys burns KL: here

This is, a bit, what the POV trap fall to ground will feel when it finally does come undone with Tyrion POV first and the Starks after that. This POV trap is the reason that so many are stuck on the ‘good queen Daenerys’ train.

Said so, another premise might be in order, about what I think personally of the character Daenerys because it's going to influence by interpretation of her arc and journey.

I actually like Daenerys as the flawed, interesting, compelling and tragic character that she is. Her story was never the rise of hero-underdog but it was always meant to be a grey villain origin story. In real life there is no absolute evil or absolute good, but only piece in between and I think the big tragedy of Daenerys is brought from her traumas, the way she was raised (thus the examples she was given) and the subsequent fact that she is stuck in her ways (something that happens to many who suffer abuse, especially because those defence/coping mechanism they use to endure trauma end up causing even more problems and they usually need to seek professional help to unlearn those and start to live better; sadly this possibility is unreachable for Daenerys) since those ways seem to actually work. Does this mean that I think she's unreachable and unrepenting? No. I think that she could still be re-directed, but sadly she's surrounded by the wrong brand of people (people either enamoured with her or the idea of her — Jorah and Barristan — or people who urge her to follow her darkest, cruellest instincts — Daario) for it to happen and it will get worse because she will be reached by someone who could redirect her (help her control her worst impulses) but in the book that person (Tyrion) cares for nothing but vengeance on Cersei and will use whatever weakness he can use in Daenerys to use her to help him get what he wants. By the time the Starks get to her Daenerys (who is already well on her way to completely fall prey to temptation of letting her impulses run free since they've always paid off until now) it will be too late and she'll be so stuck in her own ways that she won't be able to even listen to them.

Said so, let' s hop onto your ask. Did the show gaslight you when they showed you Daenerys giving the Dothraki that freedom speech at the end of season 1, thus AGOT, Daenerys X? No. In fact, the speech Daenerys gives the Dothraki during that chapter is in my opinion infinitely better than the one the show used. In fact she said this:

Dany called the Dothraki around her. Fewer than a hundred were left. How many had Aegon started with? she wondered. It did not matter.

“You will be my khalasar,” she told them. “I see the faces of slaves. I free you. Take off your collars. Go if you wish, no one shall harm you. If you stay, it will be as brothers and sisters, husbands and wives.” The black eyes watched her, wary, expressionless. “I see the children, women, the wrinkled faces of the aged. I was a child yesterday. Today I am a woman. Tomorrow I will be old. To each of you I say, give me your hands and your hearts, and there will always be a place for you.” — Daenerys X, AGOT

But, besides this one time and when she frees Missandei, nothing of the sort happens again. The Unsullied loyalty is bought with false freedom as there is no scene, like the show would, instead suggest of her asking the Unsullied to fight for her as freedmen and be willing to let them leave if they wish so. In fact the very chapter Daenerys supposedly frees the Unsullied ends with her screaming ‘Freedom’ throwing the scourge aside ‘dracarys’ and the unsullied screaming back ‘dracarys’.

The chapter after Daenerys is already outside of Yunkai and the one after she's already in Meereen. And even her freeing Missandei is a manoeuvre to gain her trust enough to interrogate her and get from her information about the Unsullied while also uncovering the real reason she supposedly frees them to begin with:

“I know what Aegon proved. I mean to prove a few things of my own.” Dany turned away from him, tothe slave girl standing meekly beside her litter. “Do you have a name, or must you draw a new one everyday from some barrel?” “That is only for Unsullied,” the girl said. Then she realized the question had been asked in HighValyrian. Her eyes went wide. “Oh.” “Your name is Oh?” “No. Your Grace, forgive this one her outburst. Your slave’s name is Missandei, but . . . ” “Missandei is no longer a slave. I free you, from this instant. Come ride with me in the litter, I wish to talk.” Rakharo helped them in, and Dany drew the curtains shut against the dust and heat. “If you stay with me you will serve as one of my handmaids,” she said as they set off. “I shall keep you by my side tospeak for me as you spoke for Kraznys. But you may leave my service whenever you choose, if you have father or mother you would sooner return to.” “This one will stay,” the girl said. “This one . . . I . . . there is no place for me to go. This . . . I will serve you, gladly.” “I can give you freedom, but not safety,” Dany warned. “I have a world to cross and wars to fight. Youmay go hungry. You may grow sick. You may be killed.” “Valar morghulis,” said Missandei, in High Valyrian. “All men must die,” Dany agreed, “but not for a long while, we may pray.” She leaned back on the pillows and took the girl’s hand. “Are these Unsullied truly fearless?” “Yes, Your Grace.” “You serve me now. Is it true they feel no pain?” “The wine of courage kills such feelings. By the time they slay their sucklings, they have been drinking itfor years.” “And they are obedient?” “Obedience is all they know. If you told them not to breathe, they would find that easier than not to obey.” Dany nodded. “And when I am done with them?” “Your Grace?” “When I have won my war and claimed the throne that was my father’s, my knights will sheathe their swords and return to their keeps, to their wives and children and mothers . . . to their lives . But these eunuchs have no lives. What am I to do with eight thousand eunuchs when there are no more battles tobe fought?” “The Unsullied make flne guards and excellent watchmen, Your Grace,” said Missandei. “And it is never hard to find a buyer for such fine well-blooded troops.” “Men are not bought and sold in Westeros, they tell me.” “With all respect, Your Grace, Unsullied are not men.” “If I did resell them, how would I know they could not be used against me?” Dany asked pointedly.“Would they do that? Fight against me, even do me harm?” “If their master commanded. They do not question, Your Grace. All the questions have been culled from them. They obey.” She looked troubled. “When you are . . . when you are done with them . . . your Grace might command them to fall upon their swords.” “And even that, they would do?” “Yes.” Missandei’s voice had grown soft. “Your Grace.” Dany squeezed her hand. “You would sooner I did not ask it of them, though. Why is that? Why do you care?” “This one does not . . . I . . . Your Grace . . . ” “Tell me.” The girl lowered her eyes. “Three of them were my brothers once, Your Grace.” Then I hope your brothers are as brave and clever as you. Dany leaned back into her pillow, and letthe litter bear her onward, back toBalerion one last time to set her world in order.And back to Drogon. Her mouth set grimly. — Daenerys III, ASOS

I will never be over Daenerys asking ‘why do you care?’, if she truly was what the show would have us believe she would not have needed to ask that question because ‘all lives matters and all people are born free’ but we already know she doesn't believe the Unsullied lives can be considered as such.

And, do you remember this scene in the show?

(gif not mine)

There is no counterpart for this particular moment of the conversation with Hizdahr in the books, but the show did borrow it from a conversation that did happen in ADWD, and precisely:

“I have refused you six times,” Dany reminded Hizdahr. “Your Radiance has seven gods, so perhaps she will look upon my seventh plea with favor. Today I do not come alone. Will you hear my friends? There are seven of them as well.” He brought them forth one by one. “Here is Khrazz. Here Barsena Blackhair, ever valiant. Here Camarron of the Count and Goghor the Giant. This is the Spotted Cat, this Fearless Ithoke. Last, Belaquo Bonebreaker. They have come to add their voices to mine own, and ask Your Grace to let our fighting pits reopen.” Dany knew his seven, by name if not by sight. All had been amongst the most famed of Meereen’s fighting slaves … and it had been the fighting slaves, freed from their shackles by her sewer rats, who led the uprising that won the city for her. She owed them a blood debt. “I will hear you,” she allowed. One by one, each of them asked her to let the fighting pits reopen. “Why?” she demanded, when Ithoke had finished. “You are no longer slaves, doomed to die at a master’s whim. I freed you. Why should you wish to end your lives upon the scarlet sands?” “I train since three,” said Goghor the Giant. “I kill since six. Mother of Dragons says I am free. Why not free to fight?” “If it is fighting you want, fight for me. Swear your sword to the Mother’s Men or the Free Brothers or the Stalwart Shields. Teach my other freedmen how to fight.” Goghor shook his head. “Before, I fight for master. You say, fight for you. I say, fight for me.” The huge man thumped his chest with a fist as big as a ham. “For gold. For glory.” “Goghor speaks for us all.” The Spotted Cat wore a leopard skin across one shoulder. “The last time I was sold, the price was three hundred thousand honors. When I was a slave, I slept on furs and ate red meat off the bone. Now that I’m free, I sleep on straw and eat salt fish, when I can get it.” “Hizdahr swears that the winners shall share half of all the coin collected at the gates,” said Khrazz. “Half, he swears it, and Hizdahr is an honorable man.” No, a cunning man. Daenerys felt trapped. “And the losers? What shall they receive?” “Their names shall be graven on the Gates of Fate amongst the other valiant fallen,” declared Barsena. For eight years she had slain every other woman sent against her, it was said. “All men must die, and women too … but not all will be remembered.” Dany had no answer for that. If this is truly what my people wish, do I have the right to deny it to them? It was their city before it was mine, and it is their own lives they wish to squander. “I will consider all you’ve said. Thank you for your counsel.” She rose. “We will resume on the morrow.” — Daenerys II, ADWD

Notice that she does not reopen the pits because of this, but because it's a political manoeuvre, because it's a wedding gift to Hizdahr who she marries to have peace with the Sons of the Harpy and because she gets the ten percent of the income; and not because she wishes to honour these men and women and their freedom of choice. Also, you can see the way her perspective has shifted can't you? How she thinks that they owe her for their freedom. It's a huge shot from this to ‘free men and women make their own choices’ of the show, isn't it? What she intends as freedom is not freedom at all.

The propaganda, I am afraid, is much a show thing. Because in the books Daenerys has clear in mind her goal and that is not freeing all slaves and give them better lives, it's not even free the people of Westeros from a tyrant and have them live joyous lives in peace. No, her goal is:

“I mean to sail to Westeros to drink the wine of vengeance from the skull of the Usurper” — Daenerys III, ACOK

And notice that Robert is already dead; so, whose skull do you want to drink from exactly? His children?, if you aren't guilty of your father's crimes why should they be guilty of their father's?

Her campaign east was never intended to be to free the slaves — that was a side-dish that was an asset to her, as I analysed a bit in this post — it was to gather resources for her campaign west (her real goal: the Iron throne of her father) and she does gather this resources and supplies in this order:

Astapor —› Soldiers (obsessively loyal and obedient soldiers)

Yunkai —› following (thus labor) + wealth

Meereen —› wealth + possibly a fleet

And the show did tell us, in its own way:

What she hand't accounted for, were the slavers pushing back, overthrowing her hastily thrown together alternative governments and fighting against her (in the form of laying siege on Meereen, ensuing a ship blockade around Meereen and ensuring a plague spread in the city as well as supporting economically the Sons of the Harpy from the outside) these are all manoeuvres a conquering revolutionary should take into account of their enemies. Instead not only does she not account for it, but also isn't guided rightly to resolve the matter. And she does try the policy of diplomacy, she marries Hizdahr and reopens the pits, she tries to create a new economic income for the city with agricolture and sends help to the ill but it's not enough. Sadly, when one wants to completely disassemble and overthrow an economic system which holds since centuries ago, he/she has to have an already launched or ready-to-be-launched alternative source of income to stave off the possible crumble and collapse of the economy of the city you've conquered and are changing and Daenerys does not have this, because freeing the cities was never her goal to begin with. It became a personal crusade, because she could, and she had something to prove as well, not because she believed in freedom and equality for all men, and because it still could help her for her campaign west.

And that's shown even more when you think back on the small detail I pointed out about Mirri and how she hadn't vigilated over the fact that Mirri was not mistreated or harmed, but had substantially abandoned her after having claimed her as her own. In the excerpt from Daenerys II, ADWD we see the same thing, the fighter freedmen are abandoned to their own devices and they are almost starving when before they were well treated and honoured. And we know people came begging to her to re-sell themselves to the masters to avoid starving, and Daenerys knew nothing of it. She did not set up refuges for the ill or the homeless, she did not make sure everything went by the book and everyone was cared for, she didn't have an alternative to slavery as an income for the society and the economy is collapsing around her. So, what does she do?

She re-instates slavery taking the same percentage as the masters did before her (the ten percent) from each selling and she also demands it has to happen in coin and precious metals because ‘Meereen doesn't need other goods’ but she needs coin and metal to fund her campaign west:

"In Astapor the city took a tenth part of the price, each time a slave changed hands," Missandei told her. "We'll do the same," Dany decided. Wars were won with gold as much as swords. "A tenth part. In gold or silver coin, or ivory. Meereen has no need of saffron, cloves, or zorse hides." "It shall be done as you command, glorious queen," said Daario. "My Stormcrows will collect your tenth." — Daenerys VI, ASOS

So, this is not taxing to discourage a practice (like some had the audacity to tell me) while she manages to buy time and launch a new source of income enough to completely avoid the need of the people to resell themselves to not starve. No, it's done purposefully and only with the goal of the Iron throne in mind. Nothing else.

The propaganda is much part of the show (that claims it's the only reason Daenerys moves, wakes in the morning and breathes, when it's only a personal battle she's chosen to engage with to prove something to the world and not something she genuinely wishes to achieve; and all with the good effect that it can ease her way back west — this is madly clever you must admit) and what her fans cling to, to justify their vision of pure good queen Daenerys. In the book it has, still, little bearing since Daenerys is still in Essos, she will probably use it to prove the ways she's better than her father once in Westeros (though the whole anti-Daenerys propaganda Cersei does in the show her enemies will probably do in the books too, thus her propaganda will fall on deaf ears and she'll to resort to her conquering ways to get the Iron throne). Remember that Daenerys is not a rightful queen, no matter what she says and what her fans say, she is a claimant to the Iron throne due her father's time on it, but her claim is weak, by now, for what we know in the books, Aegon is the only one with a powerful claim to the Iron throne barred from Stannis and Shireen.

Because House Targaryen was dethroned and a new dynasty instated, Stannis is the heir to the dynasty and the rightful king, his daughter and proclaimed heir, Shireen, is the one who has the strongest claim to the Iron throne after her father; once both of them die (and we know this will happen, sadly) Aegon is the one with the most powerful claim as Rhaegar' son and heir, kin to the Martells of Dorne, lord by conquest of Storm's End and the Stormlands and also blood-tied to House Baratheon.

Daenerys claim is very weak confronted with his, and wether Jon is true born or not, it's entirely possible that once Aegon dies if people knows of Jon's parentage they would flock to him, because he was raised by Ned Stark whom most of them deemed the most honourable man of the 7K, and because he would be the natural heir to his half-brother, what more he grew up in Westeros fighting to defend it; while Daenerys is a female (sad but true) conqueror coming from the east, claiming the throne in the name of her mad father; and it is entirely possible that, in seeing her propaganda and what she believes to be her great achievements trudged upon by the westerosi, she will choose Fire and Blood over the diplomacy she tried to use while in Meereen (especially since she believes it to be a failure).

Will she try to use it to corrupt others?, well she might try to use to paint herself in a better way for the westerosi, who dislike slavery — look at what Ned wanted to do to Jorah because he had sold him own folk as slaves — to make them less prejudiced in her regards, but it will more than probably fail, in my opinion.

Also, the point, if I am not mistaken, that brought forth the devil's fall from grace and from heaven was exactly that, free will. Though the matter is again deeply layered and I am in no way expert; common belief is that the devil was the favourite son of God, the Morningstar and that he grew too prideful and wanted to rule over the men as God did — also in some sources it can be attested that he grew prideful because men and women were gifted the free will while the angels were condemned to be servants to God and that spurned him to led the rebellion that caused his fall and his banishment from the heavens — in the work ‘Paradise Lost’ from Milton, when he falls Lucifer comments on how ‘he'd rather be king in hell than servant in the heavens’. But again not all sources are sure, the point is the devil first appears in the Bible in the Garden of Eden, where in the form of a snake he tempts Eve to eat and make Adam eat the forbidden apple thus causing their banishment from Eden;

Though we find notions on it in the Book of Isaiah 14, 12-14:

“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!  You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’”

 Then, we found it spoken about in Ezekiel 28, 12-18

You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the Garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz and diamond, beryl, onyx and jasper, sapphire, emerald and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings, and your engravings. On the day you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the Holy Mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways, from the day you were created, 'till unrighteousness was found in you. In the abundance of your trade, you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; I cast you as profane thing from the Mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty, you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries; I brought fire out from your midst, it consumed you and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you.

Well... reading this, I do admit it holds a striking resemblance to Daenerys journey and her corrupting her own morals to get her own ‘trade’ (the Iron throne). Do the resemblance ever end?, I wonder. Also all the fire, walking around the stones of fire does remind me of Daenerys.

But free will was given to Men since their creation, God did forbid them to eat the apple, but he still gave them the freedom of choosing to violate that decree, as they do when they fall to temptation and do eat the forbidden fruit. So, as far as I know, Lucifer might tempt men using their pride, their lust, and all the various deadly sins, exactly because God gifted them free will.

To resume: Daenerys did make that speech at the end of AGOT but she did not offer the same courtesy to the Unsullied and her campaign east did not have the purpose to free the slaves; will she use her propaganda to convince people to support her? absolutely. Is freedom only a decoy she uses to manipulate people? absolutely. Is it done purposefully or unawarely? meh. I think it's a mixture of both tbh. Is there some other connection to Satan and his use of free will to tempt people? In a way. It's not satan who gives men free will, they are gifted it at creation by God and he uses it as a weakness to tempt them with the deadly sins to which men can fall prey to. If a man has resolve and faith enough and he is rightly guided he won't be tempted (just as Randyll — and am I really saying that Randyll bad-father Tarly is rightly guided? ew but he is choosing his honour and loyalty over Daenerys and her deceit so I think it stands even if he is a terrible man — and especially Dickon refused to bend the knee to Daenerys in s7; tho that's show only and we've yet to see how her campaign west will actually go with Aegon to also count in. Will Aegon be the rightly man who won't stand for her ways? Will Jon? Will the Stark? Possibly all of them will. Possibly Arianne will. Unbowed, unbent, unbroken, after all)

This turned extremely long, and I don't even know if I have resolved everything you asked me, feel free to point it if I've missed something, but I do hope you enjoyed this! I certainly enjoyed writing it and researching it.

Part five of this series: the Holy Mary and the Hymn of the Mother, destructive mothers

#anon asks #ask the hag #asks so long they turn into metas #Daenerys Stormborn #the biblical series of asoiaf metas

[rxtten-kinhelp]

! TECHNOBLADES

KIN / SYSTEM HELP !

-> [barbed wire creds] <- ⛓👑⛓ -> [icon art creds: sadist] <-

Hullo! I'm Technoblade or Axel, and I'm part of a system. I'm the main runner of this blog, but if the others decide to post, it'll be tagged with "(name).txt [pro/noun]"! The body is a minor, so please keep that in mind.

Sometimes I forget about posting or just dont have energy, so this blog will have moments of no posting.

Under the cut is my sources, request types, and DNI.

SOURCES :

DSMP, OSMP, Hermitcraft (I've only watched s8 and a bit of s9 grian though, so bare with me!), Undertale, FNAF, MLP: FIM, Otherkin, MCYTs in general, Sanders Sides, Creepypasta, Minecraft in general, Coraline, more I'm definitely forgetting! Just ask and I'll see what I can do. Factkin requests ARE okay !!

REQUEST TYPES :

Moodboards, Stimboards(iffy on these!), Icons (+ Pride icons), headers (just lemme know what kind!), Pronouns and names, Canon calls, Headcanons, Gender finding, Doodles, and more !

I will not do any Stimboards invovling food, carekits, or pendulums.

DNI :

basic dni criteria (racist, homophobe, pedo, etc), anti-mcyt, anti-dsmp, kin discourse, proshippers, nsfw/kink blogs, fakeclaimers, sysmeds, transmeds, anti-jschlatt, those who believe kin means relating to a char, those that participate in cringe culture, those who support yandere dev, those who don’t respect content creator boundaries.

#technoblade.txt [god/it/bloods] #[request accepted] BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! #[request denied] THIS ISNT DOING MUCH TO CHANGE MY POLITICAL OPINIONS! #[for myself] WEAPONS ARE FOR CASUALS! #[requests i sent] Love is aggressive. Love is unexpected. Love attacks from the skies. #[moodboards] Sometimes its hard being the best! #[stimboard] You see I was using an advanced strategy called LYING #[icons] Sometimes people tell me hey Techno you ego is getting a bit out of hand. Well I think they’re just jealous of how perfect I am. #[header] I don't know what to do with power I just seek it. #[pronouns + names] Hitting me is just a poor life policy! #[canon calls] Revolution waits for no man. #[headcanons] If I have a problem I just stab it. #[gender finding] The moral of the story is when I get bored I do mean things to other people. #tommy.txt [he/disc] #[outfit board] do your shoes need shining?!