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tathrin · 1 year

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If Finrod is Legolas's other dad, explain Lorien.

Reference is to this post, and also I'm tagging @z-h-i-e because this is their ship-baby, I just popped in to sprinkle some additional inspiration because my brain went "ooh hey!" when their post crossed my dash because that's the kind of supportive community fandom is supposed to be made of fyi.

Right, so. There's no sense of tone in straight-text communication on the internet, so I know that it's entirely possible that this ask was sent in the spirit of giggling-with-popcorn delight while you eagerly await the resulting explanation. It's equally possible that you're playing at being The Ship Police and challenging me in the expectation that I won't be able to make this Just For Funsies ship sail without floundering on the rocks of canon.

Either way: buckle up. Because the boats of Lórien don't sink.

Because when Legolas gets to the woods of Lothlórien with the rest of the Fellowship, he's delighted. He's never actually been here before! He's heard all the stories, and listened avidly, but. well. Thranduil and Galadriel both blame the other a little bit for the nasty way Finrod died (they know it's not the other's fault so they don't say anything, either to each other or anyone else but, well. it feels like it ought to be the other one's fault, somehow).

And there's all that tension re: Doriath still, and why Galadriel couldn't just pick-up where Melian her teacher left off and maintain the Girdle afterwards—because I'm not a maia, Thranduil, you ass! Oh, so you couldn't even TRY?—especially because she then proceeds to do basically that for Lórien just a few thousand years later...and of course Galadriel thinks it's Oropher's fault that so many of Lothlórien's elves died in the Last Alliance, because if only he hadn't been so reckless and pig-headed then surely Amdír would never have thought up that idiotic suicidal charge on his own...and if she'd maybe tried a little harder to rein-in the son/nephew of the Kinslayers, maybe Sauron would never have even made the Rings, and Mirkwood would still be Greenwood, which you'll note she can't be arsed to extend her convenient semi-girdle to either...and if he wasn't so damn prideful maybe somebody could help his precious stupid spider-forest...etc etc.

They aren't like. enemies. but they don't really get along anymore, either. They don't talk. (There's a reason the elves of Green/Mirkwood were moving north even before Sauron took up housekeeping in Dol Guldur.) So even though Lothlórien is like maybe a week's walk away, Legolas hasn't actually been here before. And he is stoked! Because he's always wanted to visit, but he didn't want to hurt his remaining dad's feelings by being like "bye, gonna go visit my aunt whom you haven't spoken to in like three thousand years, nbd!" so he never did — but here they are now, and it's part of the Quest, so it's not like Legolas just popped in for a visit, is it? He's doing something that just happened to bring him here, so Thranduil can't take it personally, and...well, here he is! At last! This is awesome! He's so excited to see his aunt's fabled forest!

And then they want to blindfold him!? He's FINALLY in Lórien, and he's not even allowed to look at the place!? This is his aunt's forest, for fuck's sake — he is an elf and a kinsman here, dammit! No wonder he goes from zero-to-sixty re: "golly Gimli don't be so stubborn" => "hOw dARe yOu!?!?!?" when the blindfold is suggested. He's not just pissed, he's taking it personally. Because he's family.

Okay so far so good, but when the Fellowship comes before Celeborn and Galadriel why doesn't anyone say anything about Legolas literally being their nephew, one might ask? Ah! Well, that's because we have Hobbits for our narrators, and they simply don't know elvish family trees well enough to catch that detail. Which is why when Celeborn says "Welcome son of Thranduil! Too seldom do my kindred journey hither from the North," it's perhaps a little more pointed of a statement than the Hobbits know. Celeborn is saying long time no see nephew, how nice of you to visit FINALLY. But Legolas and Thranduil have called themselves "Wood-elves" since moving to Greenwood, so the fact that he's actually half-Noldor just never gets mentioned, because it's not like it's relevant, is it? He doesn't mention being half-Sindar either. He calls himself a Wood-elf because he is a Wood-elf...by adoption. So why would the Hobbits even think to ask?

And we know that Galadriel uses ósanwë on everybody, so why wouldn't she be using it with her own nephew? What better way to have a private family chat, after all? And she doesn't say anything aloud to anyone while Celeborn is greeting everybody else, and it's not like Galadriel really needs to listen to the "hellos" either; perhaps she and Legolas have a little mental confab just the two of them while everybody else is settling in. You could easily write that in, if you wanted to, without breaking any of the existing canon.

After that, we actually have a perfect textural opening for Legolas to go hang with his aunt and uncle some more: while the rest of the Fellowship doesn't see Galadriel and Celeborn again until the Mirror and then their departure, the book says "Legolas was away much among the Galadhrim, and after the first night he did not sleep with the other companions, though he returned to eat and talk with them." So we know that Legolas is going off to hang-out with the Lórien elves...a.k.a. Aunt Galadriel. Probably sleeping in the guest bedroom and pestering her for embarrassing stories about his dads. And maybe asking her for tips on how to talk to dwarves without putting your foot in your mouth since she's clearly got experience.

And no, none of them went in for stuff like gushing hugs when they meet...but if they haven't spoken to one another in a few thousand years, and probably didn't spend all that much time together even before that (Galadriel and Thranduil weren't much in any of the same places after Doriath fell) then they wouldn't likely be all that cuddly with one another anyway, would they? Distant-but-fond seems like the order of the day to me, and you can definitely read their fleeting interactions in the book that way. (A kickass bow potentially strung with your own hair is a great gift for a nephew you don't know well who's about to go off into danger! I bet he could even shoot-down a Ringwraith with a bow like that!) Tense-and-awkward-but-trying-to-be-polite would work too, of course; depends on what kind of drama you want.

So yeah, actually I think it's perfectly reasonable to posit that Galadriel could potentially be Legolas's aunt; I've seen several fics that present Celeborn and Thranduil as cousins or some other close relative, and nobody gets shirty about the canocity of that kinship re: the Lórien scenes, so why wouldn't the connection be just as acceptable to come via Finrod and Galadriel instead? There's nothing in the text that I know of that says it can't be canon.

Anyway, Finrod-as-Legolas's-other-dad wasn't actually meant to be a serious "look how well canon supports this idea, it's definitely a very plausible thing that people should embrace in a wholly serious and canonical manner" theory to begin with. I was just having fun. Somebody said, "hey check out their weird rare ship, it's a lot of fun!" and my brain had a lightbulb moment and went "ooh what if you took that silly fun ship and leaned-in even harder with it, though?" and here we are.

Does a marriage between Thranduil and Finrod actually fit with all the canon of the Silm? I don't know, probably not; then again it might, simply because so much of the Silm is vague, especially when it comes to the elves of Mirkwood who barely even get mentioned once or twice. Personally I prefer having Legolas be born in Mirkwood and to be relatively young for an elf when Fellowship starts (there's no canon about that either way, I just like the vibes of it). However, this ship is a lot of fun too. In fact, I think it's already my favorite idea for an older-Legolas-with-ties-to-important-people take on the character, if that's how you want to take the character, simply because it is so much fun.

Do I think it's canon? No, of course not. But who cares? We're not writing Academic Articles on Accurate Tolkien Scholarship, we're writing fanfiction. We're having fun. So if you're a giggling-with-popcorn anon: good, awesome, glad to have you here enjoying the fun too. If you're a Ship Police Anon...well, acab and farewell because I frankly just do not have the time to give a shit about what somebody else ships or doesn't. Block the tag and move on.

#anon i grew up on x-men comics #AND the original star wars EU which fyi was an absolute clusterfuck #and spent my childhood plotting the most detailed and accurate AUs with my brother and our action figures that you can imagine #it often took an hour just to get the backstory set up so we could start playing #you think i can't make something with continuity as vague as lotr work the way i want it to?#please. i've never met a plothole i couldn't either pave-over or squirm my way around #believe you me anon: i have not yet begun to contort canon #this was easy this was nothing i could have concocted this in my sleep #my only weakness in this fight is that i simply don't KNOW silm-era canon off the top of my head #but i assure you that whatever nitpick you can present i will find a way through over or around #it's a weird and generally useless skill but i have a ridiculous knack for tap-dancing around canon #so go ahead bring it on i'm invested now let's spite-ship this all the way back to valinor XD #thranduil #finrod #legolas #thranduil x finrod #bling kings #shipping #my stuff #lotr #legolas has two daddies

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notmoreflippingelves · 3 months

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Naomi/Esteban: 1, 7, 16 and 55 ; Gregory/Manfred (AA): 20, 21 and 59 please!

Naomi/Esteban

Who would end a heated argument by defending their actions with ‘because I love you!’ ?

Both to be honest. Albeit in slightly different ways. Esteban is more likely to have pre-emptively made a decision/taken action without informing Naomi or asking for her permission first. And Naomi would be livid that she wasn't consulted beforehand. Esteban would be very smug and condescending and talk about how he knows better since he's older (physically, maybe but not necessarily mentally) and wiser (questionable) so Naomi should defer to his judgement. And he would use "I love you" in a slightly manipulative way to try and silence all her protestations. (It doesn't work. His love for her just makes her even more determined to save him from his own noble urges).

In circumstances that specifically involve Esteban putting himself at risk (to protect Naomi/other members of his family/Avalor), he would probably also try to pull the "I am older and less worthy/important, so I am more disposable if things should go wrong" bullshit, which would make Naomi absolutely livid.

Also I think it would be impossible for Naomi to end the argument simply with "because I love you." She would specifically end it with "because I love you, you asshole!" (Emphasis on that last part). Sure she loves him and wants him to know that's why she's behaving as she is. But she also wants to remind him that he is incredibly aggravating and often stupid and she can just barely stand the sight of him sometimes.

Would they build a pillow fort together just because?

Just because? No I don't think so. And certainly not together. That being said, I can see them building separate pillow forts under very specific circumstances for the sheer purpose of outdoing each other. One of them mentioned building pillow forts as children and being very good at it. And the other immediately follows up with "That is nothing. I built forts twice as high and just as impressive." and the inevitable response is "Oh yeah. Prove it!"

And so there just ends up being the pettiest little competition as to who can build the best fort. (Elena is named the judge since she has a foot in both camps. And she's rather shook about the whole thing. She herself would've absolutely accepted a pillow fort building challenge in an instant. But like she kind of expected Naomi and Esteban of all people to act like actual, reasonable adults--as they do in most circumstances. But no, they are the ones acting like children just because neither can bend even in a little where the other is concerned).

Not sure who would win the competition, though I might have to give a slight edge to Esteban. Simply because we know he likes to stack a pillow given the like 6+ we see on his bed in the sick day episode. (Of course, if Elena had taken part, she probably would've won because she has even more stacked pillows on her own bed and she's more stubborn than either of the others to boot).

Can they stay up all night just talking?

Could they stay up all night talking? Yes, probably. Both have a lot to say, enjoy the sound of their own voice, and like spending as much time as they possibly can with their partner.

Would they stay up all night talking? I kind of doubt it. While both are very hard workers, they are also two of the more practical characters on the show. (To an extent, Esteban can definitely have his super irrational moments). Therefore, they know the importance of getting a good night's sleep. They also seem like the sort that genuinely enjoy the sleep that they get. Like they're not going to protest too much or try to stay up any longer than necessary. Sleep is good (especially in each other's arms), so there is no strong drive to push it off.

Do they like watching clouds or star gazing?

Both of them are canonically into sailing, and using the stars to navigate is kind of a big part of that. So I definitely think they would look at the stars together. Additionally, Naomi has lived in a bunch of different places, and Esteban traveled a lot during his time as chancellor. So I think they would both know and talk a lot about the different names for various constellations in different places--as well as any legends/stories associated with these or the stars themselves.

On a similar note, they might also watch the clouds a bit--but more out of practicality than enjoyment. It's always good to be on top of changes in the weather--especially when one or both is out at sea and/or if they have specific plans outdoors in the near future. That being said, Naomi is particularly fond of pointing out any cloud that she sees that even vaguely resembles Esteban's facial hair. (Esteban's usual reply: "You do me a great disservice with that remark, Miss Turner! I would never allow such a miserable, misshapen thing to grace my face.")

Gregory/Manfred

Choose one song that perfectly describes their relationship.

I'm sorry, but I am so bad at this. I don't know music like at all. (It's really just musical theater and artists my parents like. That is the extent of my music knowledge).

So we're gonna have a few songs from random musicals and they're gonna be angsty since that's where my brain goes with this ship.

So I don't think this one will come as a particular surprise especially given I know you are a Les Mis fan...but yeah, the whole sequence of Confrontation --> Stars--> Javert's Suicide.

Just Manfred being horrified and disgusted at being at Gregory's mercy and the audacity of this man to be kind and just and dedicated toward the Truth when he has no right. Just go ahead and substitute "defense attorney" for "thief"/"criminal" in a lot of Javert's lyrics, and you've got Manfred being a toxic, doomed, would-be tsundere.

"Damned if I'll live in the debt of a thief/ Damned if I'll yield at the end of the chase./ I am the Law and the Law is not mocked./ I'll spit his pity right back in his face./ There is nothing on Earth that we share....

"How can I allow this man to hold dominion over me...This desperate man whom I have hunted."

And as for another toxic musical yaoi ship, Judas' reprise of "I Don't Know How to Love Him" from Jesus Christ Superstar. (Arguably Mary Magdalene's original as well). Just Manfred destroying the man that he loves (unrequitedly?) as Judas has done--simply because their goals are not aligned and because he doesn't know how to handle his feelings that he can't help but feel are irrational--especially as Gregory (or Jesus in the original) is just so damned Good and Manfred knows he never would've been worthy of him.

And even though I don't particularly read MVK as wallowing in guilt nearly as much as I do with Kristoph in krisnix, I think here could be an element of that there as well.

"I have been splattered with innocent blood./ I will be dragged through the slime and the mud./ I have been splattered with innocent blood!/ I will be dragged through the slime and the slime and the slime and the mud...

I..I don't know how to love Him./ I don't know why he moves me./ He's a man; he's just a man./ He is not a King./ He is just the same as anyone I know. /He scares me so."

There's also a bit of a similar feel from Burr's parts of "The World was Wide Enough " from Hamilton. Realizing that your idealogical opposite and narrative foil and foe didn't need to die at your hands. That your victory at long last is distinctly Pyrrhic and that there was and should've been room for both of you in the courtroom (which is THE world for all intents and purposes for Manfred).

(For both of the above songs, the beginning isn't really the vibe for angsty Manfred/Greg, so I went ahead and linked to right where the relevant part starts).

And on a much, much lighter note. "Horny Angry Tango" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. (Bonus in that both characters are lawyers and the background of this is them duking it out in court in a proxy battle for their relationship issues.) Just Manfred and Gregory getting super hot under the collar while arguing against each other in court, but also like genuinely being furious with each other as opposed to just horny and in denial.

And similarly, You're Only Second Rate from The Return of Jafar. I see this as early in Manfred and Gregory knowing each other. Manfred is just so aggravated by Gregory and thinks its so absurd that Gregory thinks he is a match for him. And he just quickly becomes overly obsessed with him in a totally not healthy or normal way that Greg in no way asked for. But Manfred just can't let this go for some reason. (It's a crush; he's got a crush, but he'll never realize it).

Who would get into a fight to defend the other’s honor? Who tends to the other’s wounds?

I'm not sure I can see either of them getting into a fight to defend the other's honor. Gregory doesn't ever think fighting is the answer, and it would take awhile for Manfred to ever get to the point where he is self-aware enough to admit that he cares about Gregory in order to defend him.

That being said, I can definitely see Manfred getting into a fight that concerns Gregory in some way. Maybe he's jealous of someone else he thinks is moving in on his man? Or someone (Gant probably) makes this mistake of teasing Manfred about his obvious "crush." Then, Manfred gets really really defensive about it (he's so in denial) and may even retaliate with his fists if the person is really pushy about it.

Greg would have to be around to bandage Manfred's wounds, but he would definitely do it and very carefully. Which of course makes Manfred even more furious about everything. HOW DARE HE BE KIND WHEN THIS IS ALL HIS FAULT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Who tops? Who bottoms?

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seriously thought about this, lol. I am friendly with some Manfredf*ckers, though and so I have thought/heard a little bit about their thoughts re: von Karma sex in general.

My main feeling is that I feel like whether Manfred would top or bottom depends entirely on whom he is being shipped with. He bottoms for Gant and Blaise, he tops Udgey, Yanni, Phoenix, Miles or Kristoph (I've only seen it one fic but like...👀).

But as for Gregory...you know I have a feeling Manfred would bottom for him too. Specifically in the sense of being a rather pushy power bottom and sort of for similar reasons as Kristoph. He's super uptight and repressed--and I feel there's a part of him that would enjoy losing some of his trademark control and perfection but specifically in a controlled, safe, private environment like the bedroom. Also, he's worth it so he would enjoy making his partner do most of the work and he just sits and enjoys like the perfect and deserving von Karma that he is.

As for Gregory, I guess see him more as a service top anyway. He doesn't strike me as particularly dominant, but he strikes me as a submissive even less. Maybe it's the overall "dad" energy that he exudes, but I feel like he would be very attentive to his partner and focus on making sure that they feel good and are well-looked after.

So yeah, they're probably both switches but in this case, Greg as service top to Manfred's power-bottom.

#gregory edgeworth #manfred von karma #naomi turner #esteban flores #gregfred #esteomi #a little bit of estebalenaomi for you too in question 2 #ace attorney #elena of avalor #oh wow elves is talking about jcs again; how original #honestly for some reason thinking about gregfred made me think about superman/lex luthor #why? it's literally just cause clark and greg both wear glasses and have a rich enemy who is canonically obsessed w/ them #otherwise there is nothing in common #and now my brain is just whirring about...is lex luthor a power bottom too? Why am I even thinking about it?#if he were to get superman to top him once; would he stop thinking about world domination?#food for thought #honestly these two ships couldn't be more different tbh but they definitely have the delicious tsundere factor in common #now i'm wondering what the eoa characters would look in an ace attorney AU #I feel like Naomi would have beef with Klavier Gavin (it's onesided) and would probably bond with Ema over it.#i can't decide whether klavier and prince alonso would be best friends or bitter rivals (who secretly want to kiss)#but either way they would be obsessed with each other #i can also see esteban getting a bit of a crush on dhurke sadmadhi too but not sure it would go anywhere #he probably wouldn't even recognize it as a crush tbh #just like 'wow. he's so cool and manly and mysterious. like a hero from a storybook.'#like how i hc esteban has a crush on antonio agama but also doesn't realize it #oh esteban and minister inga would definitely have so much beef tho #it would be glorious to watch them do passive aggressive extreme diplomacy while being THIS close to straight up murdering each other #naomi would be munching popcorn like there's no tomorrow --as she should #ask memes

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