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not-ishmael · 1 year

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A (not so) Brief Study Into the Nature of Deltarune

TL;DR:

For some time I've been quite intrigued by the appearance of some very particular leitmotifs that Undertale's and Deltarune's OSTs have in common. This took me down a rabbit hole that ended with the realization that it's quite possible that DR Sans and UT Sans are one in the same, and the Reset Theory on Deltarune is probably right.

This forces me to believe that Deltarune is a prequel from the perspective of the characters, and a spiritual sequel from the perspective of the Soul/Player.

The Pre-Sequel Theory

First and foremost, pardon my english. I'm quite proud of my english skills, but it's not my first language and sometimes I mess up.

This is a LONG post. There's a lot -a LOT- of text and no images at all to ease the reading. I advice jumping into it only if you don't have anything better to do for a bit. The PDF I firstly wrote this on is 6 and a half pages long.

Index:

Motivations.

Clues in Undertale.

Clues in Deltarune.

The Delta Rune.

Conclusions.

Problems with this theory.

Blood (This part is skippable).

Discussion of the problems.

1 Motivations:

I've always been fascinated by soundtracks and ever since Undertale came up, its soundtrack wasn't an exception.

More recently I've been a bit more focused on the leitmotifs that Toby Fox uses in both game's soundtracks and, as many people have found, they share a lot of common themes. For many of them it's easy to understand why (for instance, for common character's themes, like Sans') but for some others it's not so much.

Having a more or less clear relationship between the games through the music, I tried to study the nature of this relationship, and what elements outside the music can be used as proof of this connection. This got me to Sans ,because of course it did.

Trying to justify this took me down the rabbit hole that theory crafting around Sans has always been, and the musical side of my reasoning ended up being a small part of the whole thing. Regardless I'm quite happy with the result, albeit it's not free of problems that I'll address and discuss at the end.

I'd like to also thank @determinators, who's incredible character analysis on Chara inspired me to write this whole thing.

With that out of the way, let's begin by talking about small details that Undertale gives us and hints to it being connected to Deltarune in some way:

2 Clues in Undertale:

There’s a lot of non-music related hints that point towards a possible connection between both games in Undertale. I tried to make a small summarize of all the most important signs I’ve found.

To begin with, there are a couple of small details that show that Sans Undertale seems to have quite the interesting backstory, these being:

Both him and Papyrus appeared one day in Snowdin, seemenly out of nowhere.

In Sans’ lab there’s a broken machine and a poorly drawn picture of 3 people we don’t recognize with ”don’t forget” written on it.

Sans insists a lot about about how he gave up trying to go back (somewhere, sometime, or both).

On the other hand there’s the famous Gaster’s Entry 17, that could imply some knowledge of the Dark Fountains by the former Royal Scientist. Gaster related as well, there’s Clam Girl, who mentions a monster named Suzy. Soon before the release of Deltarune, in the Switch version of the game, Clam Girl would turn grey and says that the time to meet this Suzy ”... is fast approaching”, before disappearing with the sound Mystery Man makes when disappearing himself. Although Suzy is not written the same way as Susie, there’s no reason to believe that Clam Girl is not talking about Deltarune’s Susie. This not only hints to Undertale and Deltarune being connected, but to Gaster being behind the whole connection, since Clam Girls turns into a goner sprite and disappears the same way Mystery Man does. I know Mystery Man is not confirmed to be Gaster, but it’s definitely related to him in someway.

There must be something going on with Papyrus as well, since he’s Sans’ brother and comes to Snowdin with him, but in Undertale he doesn’t seem to know as much as Sans knows. This could mean, since Papyrus doesn’t bleed, that Undertale Papyrus and Undertale Sans are not the same kind of being, and don't share a past.

2.1 Sans’ lines during combat:

During the fight against Sans, nearing the end of the Genocide Route, we get some clues about his backstory within his lines of dialogue. He begins, after the Player’s first attack, by saying:

our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting...until suddenly, everything ends. heh heh heh... that's your fault, isn't it?

We don’t know who is he working with, but it seems they know very well about the power to control the timeline, since they were monitoring it.

Sans continues with:

knowing that one day, without any warning... it's all going to be reset.

look. i gave up trying to go back a long time ago. and getting to the sur-ace doesn't really appeal anymore, either. cause even if we do...we'll just end up right back here, without any memory of it, right?

to be blunt...it makes it kind of hard to give it my all.

Here we get a bit more information. Sans is -understandably- depressed about the whole reset situation, but mentions ”going back” somewhere. We know it’s not somewhen since he doesn’t remember earlier timelines -besides the occasional déjà vu- and it’s not the Surface because he mentions it right after that line. So, where else would Sans be trying to go back to? It can’t be anywhere in the Undertale world, since he can move freely through the Underground - even through teleportation- and he specifically states that it’s not the Surface. Thus it can only mean somewhere outside the Undertale world.

A bit after that he continues with:

all i know is... seeing what comes next... i can't afford not to care anymore.

What does he mean by ”seeing what comes next”? He doesn’t know the future, nor what the Player did in other timelines. So, what is he seeing? I have no clue for what he could be referring too, but I do think that the answer lies within Deltarune’s story. We’ll have to wait for future chapters to know.

2.2 Sans’ secret lab:

After Sans gives the Silver Key -which appears to be a reference to a book about timetravel by H.P. Lovecraft- to the Player, we can access the Secret Lab hidden underneath his house. Inside of it we find:

A covered up broken machine.

Blueprints for a machine written in un- readable symbols.

A badge.

A photo album with:

A picture of Sans, happy, with other people the Player doesn’t recognize.

If the Player already fought Asriel: A second picture appears, showing Sans, Frisk and their friends.

After the v1.001 patch of the game, if the Player has talked to Clam Girl and knows of Suzy, from the back of the photo album sticks out a poorly drawn picture of three smiling people with the words ”Don’t Forget” written on it.

The first three items, although interesting, don’t give us much to work with. The machine is covered up and the blueprints are unreadable. The badge could become another huge hint in the future, if during Deltarune’s festival Sans happens to win a badge for winning at something, but this is purely speculation so I won’t be taking it into account.

The pictures and the drawing, on the contrary, give us much more information. Let's discuss them a bit more in depth:

2.2.1 The photo album:

By the time the Player gets the Silver Key, possibly after the battle with Asriel, they (and Frisk) have met every main character in Undertale’s story. Thus, the people in the first picture, who neither the Player nor Frisk recognize, can’t be anyone we know. They could be people from other places in the Underground Frisk hasn’t met -although from a storytelling perspective this doesn’t make much sense- or they could be from the Deltarune world -which makes a lot more sense storywise-.

Furthermore, there’s the poorly drawn picture. Since this picture only appears after talking to Clam Girl, a character heavily tied to Deltarune -specifically to one Deltarune Character-, and it has the words ”Don’t forget” -words that don't mean anything special in Undertale, but are extremely important an present in Deltarune from the very beginning- written on it, it’s safe to assume that the three poorly drawn characters are a trio from Deltarune. Due to Frisk not recognizing them, they have to be characters that only appear on Deltarune. What trio of characters do we know from Deltarune that fit these characteristics? I’m fairly sure Kris and Susie are two of the three, but the third is a bit more complicated. My first suspect was that it was Ralsei, but since he’s a darkner and we don’t know if darkners will be able to get to the Light world somehow, nor if Sans will end up in a Dark world; I’m more inclined to leave that third character’s identity up for debate. My other candidate is Noelle, since Berdly dies in the Snowgrave route of Chapter 2 -and Toby Fox likes to keep all possible endings as canon- and we don’t know any other important lightner that doesn’t appear in Undertale as well.

3 Clues in Deltarune:

Since we have just 2 chapters -out of Toby knows how many-, not many hints to Undertale appear in the second game. Still, much can be said from the leitmotifs that can be heard in the game’s soundtrack, which was the main motivation for this analysis.

3.1 A brief introduction to leitmotifs:

*This part is skippable if you know what a leitmotif is*

To those who don’t know, a leitmotif is a small piece of melody that appears many times in a composition, and is associated to someone, somewhere or an idea. Examples of this are the main themes of characters: a recognizable simple melody that is associated to a specific someone-For instance, the melody in Nyeh Heh Heh!, which would be Papyrus’ leitmotif-.

Soundtracks are rigged with leitmotifs, and neither Undertale’s nor Deltarune’s soundtracks are an exception. Since each one is associated to a specific character, place or idea, the use of the same ones in both games is something to keep in mind.

3.2 Leitmotifs that appear in both games:

The first song that plays inside the world of Deltarune, in Chapter 1, is Beginning, which has 2 leitmotifs in it: Once upon a time -from Undertale-, and Don’t Forget, -from Deltarune-. This second leitmotif appears in several other songs in Chapter 1, and in some of Chapter 2.

The song that plays in the menu after you finish Chapter 1 is called Before the Story, which has the exact same melody as in Once upon a time. This leitmotif is one of the most -if not he most- used in Undertale’s soundtrack. For me, it’s kind of the ”Undertale theme”, for how much it appears in the soundtrack of the game -same as Don't Forget would be Deltarune's theme-.

There are some other Undertale leitmotifs in Deltarune’s OST that I won’t be taking into consideration. These are the character’s leitmotifs, like Sans’, and other that represent important emotions like determination, despair and hope-These leitmotifs are a bit difficult to recognize if you’re not deep into the music side of the games. Determination can be heard, among others, in Undertale’s Determination and Deltarune’s Rude Buster; Despair corresponds to the melody in Undertale’s Burn in Despair, and appears in Your Best Nightmare, Vs. Susie and at Queen’s basement, right before the Spamton NEO fight; and Hope is sometimes called ”Snowdin’s theme”, which appears in Undertale’s Snowdin Town and Hopes and Dreams -thus why I prefer to call it Hope’s leitmotif- and in Deltarune’s A Town Called Hometown-. These leitmotifs being in both games is to be expected, since they either represent common characters or common emotions to both games, so they're not really relevant to the theory.

Going back to the theory, the use of ”Don’t Forget” as a title for the most present leitmotif in Deltarune is a bit on the nose, taking into account the poorly drawn picture in Sans’ Secret Lab. The soundtrack acts as a constant reminder to not forget -pun intended- that drawing. But this isn’t the only insinuation Toby’s left in the game’s music. There’s another, much obscurer clue, it being the name of the song Before the Story. Since it plays in the menu only after you play Chapter 1, it can’t be referring to ”before the story” of Deltarune, since that story has already begun. So, what if the Story is Undertale’s? If so, since it uses the most important leitmotif of Undertale in a song called ”Before the Story”, this would imply that Deltarune’s story happens before Undertale.

3.3 Non-musical clues:

How the Player interacts with the world seems to also indicate a relationship between games. Specifically those lines that point to the Player knowing characters -or things about characters- that Kris doesn’t know yet. This in and of itself is not enough to prove that the games are a direct sequel and prequel of each other but, in combination with everything else already discussed it does add to that idea.

4 The Delta Rune:

Both the appearance of the Delta Rune in both games and its name are big indicators of this connection between games. Even though in Undertale it’s not known what its original meaning was, there’s a prophecy that sounds remarkably alike to the Delta Rune Legend from Deltarune. In Undertale there are two interpretations: either the Angel will murder all monsters, or free them all from the Underground. Additionally, in Deltarune, the Legend Ralsei tells us says that the Angel is to be defeated by three heroes: two lightners -a human and a monster- and a darkner.

Since the Delta Rune is older than written history in Undertale and it’s original meaning was lost to time, that one of the 2 interpretations for this symbol is so close to the Legend Ralsei gives us, with an evil Angel instead of a benevolent one, could mean that, originally, both Runes had the same meaning behind.

5 Conclusions:

With all this in mind, I’m quite sure now that at the end of Deltarune Sans will end up being stuck in Undertale’s world, possibly using the machine he keeps covered up in his lab. Since Papyrus doesn’t seem to be much different to any other monster in the Underground I don’t think he comes from Deltarune’s world, so I fear a tragic end for the Papyrus we’re yet to meet.

This ending would make sense of the whole ”Your choices don’t matter” thing. The Snowgrave route seemed to contradict this statement but, if just Sans is going to Undertale, whatever you do on Deltarune’s Universe won’t matter to Sans’ end. Undertale’s story is already written and the end we got will remain untouched, as Toby said. This also implies that our actions don't matter to Deltarune’s world end too. This, plus the possible death of Papyrus, points to a violent end of the game. Being blunt: I think the Roaring is inevitable.

But if Deltarune is a prequel, how is it that the Player recognizes the characters that both games have in common and it’s advised that the game is played after Undertale? I believe the game is a prequel from Sans’ perspective, and a spiritual sequel from the Player’s. The Player, being the meta-being that it is in the games, doesn’t need to abide by the same temporal rules the characters are forced to follow. Thus there's no contradiction in Deltarune being a prequel to Undertale.

6 Problems with this theory:

To prove this theory we need for Papyrus to die and the Roaring to happen. It’s a grim condition, perhaps too much so that I don’t see Toby having a dream about it and deciding to dedicate the next +10 years of his life to make a game about it; or perhaps it's just the kind of dramatic and emotive ending that would motivate someone to do exactly just that.

UT Papyrus seems to not know anything about his brother’s possible past in another world, and acts as if they had been together since forever. They both appeared one day in Snowdin and his past seems as mysterious as Sans’, but they can’t be directly related since Papyrus doesn’t bleed.

I don’t know how will Sans get to Undertale’s world (my guess is Gaster, but he’s a bit of an easy-way-out in theory crafting).

Naming a song doesn’t need to be a very thought out process, even if Toby Fox has a tendency to be very attentive to details. The name of Before the story could just be a synonym to "Main menu".

Grillby’s. Sans’ convenience store, ’Sans, appears to have the same façade as Grillby’s in Undertale, with the name of Grillby rubbed off. This small detail is a possible proof against the sequel thesis, albeit it could just mean that Hometown had a Grillby’s before Sans’ convenience store and it closed down for some unknown reason.

It’s debated whether monsters from Deltarune have magic or not. There are some indications that they do have magical powers, but for some reason seem to have forgotten about them and it’s been left as an obscure thing very little people know about. Anyhow, Sans does have -very powerful- magic powers in Undertale, so this uncertainty could disprove the whole theory.

7 Blood.

*This entire part is skippable, after reading the TL;DR*

TL;DR: As always, blood seems to be the biggest issue around Sans’ theories. To summarize, unless we get undeniable proof that DR monsters do bleed in some way before turning into dust, Sans bleeding could be a huge weak point for this theory.

Before I finish this post, I'd like to address one of the biggest conundrums in Undertale: Sans' blood. Throughout the post I've gone with the assumption that Sans can bleed without proving it in anyway.

It’s fair to say that Sans does bleed in Undertale before turning into dust outside the screen, and he’s the only Undertale monster that does. We know he bleeds because he does it from the mouth as well, far from where the Player cuts him, which would only happen with regular bleeding around a digestive system rather than with ketchup stored in his rib cage. But, is there any indication that Deltarune monsters bleed?

This is highly debatable, but there are some unused sprites that show Susie bleeding. Even though they are unused, why would Toby Fox make them if the thought of bleeding monsters wasn’t in his mind? There’s a monster kid - not the Monster Kid- that asks Kris if it hurts to be made of blood, which implies that monsters are not; but the bleeding Susie sprite is a huge indicative that Toby had this idea of monsters bleeding in Deltarune.

Regarding the ”everybody bleeds” quote, in the Japanese version of the game Susie doesn’t mention blood but ”wounds”, using a word in no way related to blood or bloody wounds. Because of this, the quote is probably just a figure of speech. It’s a bit odd that a monster would use a figure of speech that mentions blood, but it’s probably because the script is written by a human, for humans to read; or that she comes from a human community, as some have hypothesised.

7.1 Berdly’s death:

Anyhow, monsters in Deltarune do seem to turn into dust after they die. Gerson, for instance, had his dust buried with his hammer, following a similar funeral ritual to that of Undertale. But Berdly, who is presumably dead after Chapter 2 if the Snowgrave route was taken, didn’t. At least, not for a long time, from after he died until Kris, Susie and Noelle leave the Librarby.

The toy in the hospital’s waiting room appears to confirm to Berdly’s death, since one of the blue beads breaks off after Snowgrave -this means there's more than 1 blue bead, possibly 2: one for Berdly and one for Kris-. But can we be certain that this means death? We do know this toy symbolizes the state of the game: the beads’ colours are the same as the main characters’, it’s said that they each ”march along their set paths", reminding us that our actions don't matter, and in the end of Chapter 2 - if nobody died- it says that the beads "march on". Berdly’s coloured bead being broken and off the rail after Snowgrave, and him appearing to ”not be awake” in the Light world indicate the end of the road for that character. It’s safe to assume that this detail does confirm that he dies after Snowgrave. But if so, how is it that his body didn’t turn immediately into dust?

In the Neutral route, Berdly’s arm gets burned and, after the Dark Fountain gets sealed, his arm doesn’t seem to respond. It’s not burned, just not moving. From this we can assume that injuries in the Dark world have physical manifestations in the Light world. This explains why Berdly is just dead and not frozen after Snowgrave. But it also could mean that he’s not completely dead, but fallen down, a comatose fatal state. This could mean that the broken bead does means certain death, just not right away. If so, then there’s nothing pointing to Deltarune monsters being any different to Undertale’s in nature, other than their apparent lack of magic powers, and this whole theory crumbles to dust -pun intended-.

As always, blood seems to be the biggest issue around Sans’ theories. So, to summarize, unless we get undeniable proof that monsters bleed in some way before turning into dust, this will keep on being a huge weak point in this theory.

8 Discussion of the problems:

Regardless of these problems, including the blood one, I still believe that this theory holds. There’s enough evidence to back up the thesis. Even if monsters don’t bleed in Deltarune, it’d make perfect sense for Sans UT to be from this world and not Undertale’s.

Nevertheless, if the blood problem isn’t explained through Deltarune, new theories will have to arise to explain why Sans is so different from any other monster.

Furthermore, if bleeding is not something Deltarune monsters do, then it’s possible that UT Papyrus is the same as DR Papyrus, like Sans, since the main reason for that distinction was that Papyrus didn’t bleed. This would imply an ending a bit less grim for the skeleton duo, although the inevitability of the Roaring still looks unavoidable to maintain the whole theme of the game: ”Your choices don’t matter ”

#Undertale #Undertale Theory #Deltarune #Deltarune Theory #Sans #Papyrus #Susie #Ralsei #noelle holiday #kris dreemurr #Toby Fox #This took me a lot longer than it should have #I might have a slight problem with these games #deltarune chapter 1 #deltarune chapter 2 #delta rune #gaster

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vgfm · 2 years

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Deltarune’s Future “Important Character”

This is a topic I hardly see discussed, but two years ago on the official Deltarune website, Toby teased a future “Important Character” who would appear in one of the game’s future chapters after Chapter 2. To wit:

[Image transcript: A Progress list from the Deltarune website. The title at the top says “Progress Chapters 3+”. At the bottom there’s an item that says “Important Character, Bosses (First-pass) 100%”. End image transcript]

At the bottom, you can see “Important Character” listed with 100% first-pass progress. This was part of Toby’s 2020 Deltarune progress update released on Undertale’s 5th anniversary, meaning that this “Important Character” has likely had much of their design completed by now.

So the big question is: Who is this important character?

We can make a number of assumptions based on this limited information:

This character is not fully implemented in Chapters 1 or 2 (hence the need for development in Ch 3+)

This character is “important” to the story and/or the overall gameplay experience

This character is likely conceptually complex or resource-intensive in some way (hence their own separate entry on the progress list)

This character may or may not be counted among the game’s bosses, given they’re listed on the same line

I don’t have any solid idea of who this character could be since our information is so limited, but I have a few theories:

The Vessel

We see a glimpse of the Vessel at the beginning of Chapter 1 before it’s “discarded.” However, the customization options that we input are still saved in the game’s data. Given that the Thrash Machine returned in Chapter 2, I’m inclined to believe the Vessel will return in a future chapter.

Although the Vessel has technically been designed already, I could see Toby’s team going the extra mile and ensuring that the Vessel maintains whatever customization we initially gave them. This would necessitate several sprite variants and some extra programming to ensure that the custom head, body, and leg pieces fit together seamlessly while in motion.

It’s possible that the Vessel could also receive a dark world form and/or dialogue portraits—these would also likely correspond to our customization choices and make the Vessel several times more complex to design than an ordinary character.

Gaster

It wouldn’t be a theory post without Gaster somewhere, right? If Mysteryman is Gaster then technically he’s already designed, but this wouldn’t account for alternate forms, portraits, or a unique manner of speech.

In particular, I suspect that Gaster may have some voice-acted lines if he makes a proper appearance in future chapters. Although Entry No. 17 implies that Gaster has a (slightly atypical) typer sound like many characters, we have seen the Shadow Crystal holders Jevil and Spamton (who are likely connected to Gaster) make use of voice lines in their battles or theme music.

There’s also the fact that the Deltarune title screen features a voice saying “Deltarune,” mirroring how the entity who took over the Undertale Twitter ended their initial announcement by shouting “DELTARUNE!”

[Image transcript: A series of tweets from the Undertale Twitter account, but the name and profile picture are blacked out. The tweets say “I look forward to creating a new future with you. Now! Show yourself! Deltarune!”. End image transcript]

It’s also possible that the old “abc_123” sound file from Undertale that warned about not spoiling the game’s secrets could have been connected to Gaster, given that it makes use of text-to-speech voices (which are seemingly sampled in the Entry 17 “Gaster” typer sounds).

If Gaster does have voice acting then not only would that require recording/generating various voice lines but also making sure they play in sync with whatever dialogue or character interactions that Gaster could conceivably have in a cutscene, which would make such scenes more difficult to plan out.

The “Important Character” line could also be a subtle reference to the Egg’s flavor text that refers to it as “not too important, not too unimportant.”

[Image transcript: The Key Item menu with the Egg highlighted. The flavor text says “Not too important, not too unimportant.” End image transcript]

However, if Gaster does show up then I think it’s likely he’d be a late-game reveal or a secret boss, so it’s possible he may not even appear in Chapters 3-5. Even if he did show up, I think it’d be out of the question that we’d get a Gaster boss fight anywhere other than during an endgame scenario, so it’s questionable how many development resources would be spent on an early-bird Gaster appearance.

An “Omega Flowey”-esque Endgame Boss

This is a catch-all category for any genre-shifting spectacle boss that would close out Chapter 5. Flowey’s boss fight was Undertale’s biggest visual spectacle and it’s likely we might see another fight of its caliber in Deltarune. Flowey’s boss form was designed and animated by Everdraed, who has continued to work with Toby throughout Deltarune’s development.

[Image transcript: A list of credits for Deltarune Chapter 2 that includes Everdraed credited for “Trailers & All Video Editing”. End image transcript]

But why would a boss fight like this would happen in Chapter 5 instead of Chapter 7? Well, Flowey’s fight wasn’t the final event in Undertale’s True Pacifist route, and with Deltarune’s expanded team and development time it’s possible we may get more than one endgame fight with a similar level of polish.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that Chapters 3-5 are going to provide some form of closure, equivalent to Undertale’s neutral route/ending, with subsequent Chapters serving as an analogue to the True Pacifist ending. That’s just a hunch, though.

As for who this boss could be, it’s anyone’s guess. Three candidates that jump out to me are the Roaring Knight, the Titans, or the Angel.

None of them have any more supporting evidence than the others--each are likely be late-game bosses and possibly the final boss. It all depends on what direction the story will go. One could debate whether the Titans or even the Angel qualify as “characters,” or conversely debate whether the Roaring Knight would require many development resources if they’re just a lightner we’ve likely already met.

Kris

I figured I’d end this list on a bit of a curveball. Kris seems like the last person who’d be “in development,” given they’ve been the protagonist for the whole game. However, I’m referring to Kris’ true self—without the Soul influencing their actions.

We’ve caught glimpses of the true Kris, but never for any extended interaction. Do they have a dialogue portrait? What would a human’s portrait look like? Some early concept art subtly implies Kris could have a portrait.

Does “true” Kris have a unique typer sound? A voice, perhaps? And let’s not forget that, despite having the same “design,” true Kris has completely different movement sprites from Kris when the Soul is in control.

Things get more interesting when we consider the dark world. We’ve never seen true Kris in the dark world. They’d likely move differently and perhaps even carry a different weapon, which would require most of their sprites to be redone. There’s also the possibility that Kris’ true form could become a battle mechanic (assuming some future reconciliation between Kris and the Soul). Maybe “True Kris” would function as some kind of devil trigger/limit break transformation that places the battle on auto-pilot or does more damage? Just a thought.

Chapter 3 seems geared to be a Kris-focused chapter, given that we’ll be exploring a dark world of their own creation. It also feels like Kris has been exerting greater influence than in Chapter 1, given that they can affect the way certain dialogue choices are delivered.

[Image transcript: Susie saying to Kris: “What!? Why are you saying it so confused?” End image transcript]

Kris also seemingly gains greater ability to railroad the Soul’s choices at the end of Chapter 2, depending on how one interprets the narration.

[Image transcript: Narration stating “It’s a sink. You could wash your hands here... but, isn’t the sink in the bathroom better?” End image transcript]

If this trend continues then I think we’ll be having a “heart to heart” with Kris sooner rather than later.

#Deltarune #Deltarune theory #Gaster #Kris #Flowey

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f-e-360 · 2 months

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Deltarune Is The Narrator Theory

After rewatching Andrew Cunningham’s video on Deltarune’s narrator (https://youtu.be/vx3JfFuKGXM?feature=shared) and mollystars’s videos on the Device theory (https://youtu.be/bSyaeIUrznQ?feature=shared)(https://youtu.be/dbu5MfJ9V0c?feature=shared) I’ve made my own theory regarding the identity of Deltarune’s narrator.

youtube

I believe Deltarune’s narrator is Deltarune.

There are two possibilities for Deltarune’s world:

1. It is a video game on a device which Gaster is connecting us to.

2. It is a world outside the device that the device connects us to

Both of these possibilities dont cancel out my theory.

Gaster created this device to connect us to this world, and, given his connection to the legend(deltarune.com’s old him.png), bring about its prophecy. This explains the narrator’s incredibly vague phrasing. The device is programmed to carefully us down the path that will lead us to through the prophecy, concealing any information that isn’t entirely necessary for your progress. It also serves as a way to immerse you, a form of escapism, a “video game” if you will. This is why it seems to flip flop between being from the in-universe characters’ pov and being omniscient. This is, why no matter what actions you take, Deltarune and its chapters only ever have one “ending”. The device is only programmed to bring you to a single ending no matter how far you deviate from the intended path. It restricts your control of this world and forces you into carrying out the legend. In the same way that the game Deltarune is Toby’s way of reaching that dream he had back in 2011, the device is Gaster’s way of reaching the ending he desires, the legend of deltarune. Deltarune is a way to bring fiction into reality. https://preview.redd.it/7oqxhjesca471.png?auto=webp&s=77b165a7bbc63b60a3771317b2779f24e1e47b35

This leads to two further theories:

1. The third entity inside Kris is the device, given that the device is the medium through which you even have control over them. This would explain why, at the end of the Weird Route, Kris would still create a Dark Fountain, given that the device needs to progress to chapter 3 no matter what changes in the world have been made.(i personally dont want there to be a third entity but i realized this halfway through writing and just thought I’d throw it in)

2. Ralsei serves as a manifestation of the device’s will. He serves as the in-universe vessel to carry out the legend exactly as it has been foretold. This is why he becomes angry with Berdly after he attempts to preemptively begin the Roaring. Outside the dark world, the device has no in-universe way of carrying out its will, as it has no “determination”. Inside the dark worlds, all inanimate objects gain the will to live, which would include the device. Ralsei is a darkner born from the device itself, which is why he can travel to any dark fountain, since all dark fountains in Deltarune exist within the device or are connected to it. In a way, Ralsei is the device’s “determination” to carry out its intended programming. (why this makes him look like asriel, i have no clue. maybe because the device is connected to Kris???) https://preview.redd.it/ralsei-was-hired-by-gaster-theory-v0-xucmxsxjbi2b1.png?width=540&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac0c6314f58f2c7f0023307e583f86de44773a95

Now why Gaster wants to carry out the legend, I have no idea. Maybe he’s like the devil or something idk. Or maybe… GASTER WAS TOBY FOX THE ENTIRE TIME⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️

Hope someone reads this. This is my first post on tumblr so maybe this theory will be forgotten, and then confirmed true in 2066 with deltarune chapter 7. Who knows. Thanks for reading.👍

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springbloggy · 16 days

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Inception theory

I recently rewatched the movie Inception and noticed a lot of its rules and events shockingly fit with the events seen across Deltarune so far. I am not saying the game is going to be a 1:1 recreation of the movie, but I figured to break down some of the movie's themes and plot points with Deltarune to create a hopefully interesting theory. This will take some elements from @jarujaruj's discussion on meta narratives ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDOfNzI1RI ) as well as Auroa's FUN theory ( https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/iizlvc/megapost_the_fun_theory_solving_gasters_mysteries/ ) Spoilers for Inception below. TW for suicide.

In the movie Inception, a group of people devise a plan to plant an idea in the mind of the future CEO of a rival company, causing him to dissolve his company. In order to do this, they create a complex plan with a lot of rules. For the sake of clarity, I am going to go through the plan and the rules in order to make this theory clearer to follow. However, keep in mind Inception is a movie that largely follows interpretation. My breakdown is mostly surface level observation, but there's still a degree of interpretation here. Also I will provide a glossary below as a shorthand for some of the characters I will mention during this theory.

Glossary

Red - the red soul seen in the goner/vessel creation sequence

Mal - the real world wife of Cobb in Inception

Sub-Mal - Cobb's subconscious recreation of Mal

First Steps - Connection

The first step of the plan is to get the target to fall asleep; once he is asleep, the main character, Cobb, and his associates will be able to enter his dream with drugs that are administered through a machine.

The setup of entering a dream through a mechanical connection is similar to the opening scene of Deltarune. At the beginning of Deltarune, Gaster creates a "connection" for Red to enter the world of Deltarune.

This "vessel" is then used to enter the world of Deltarune, but is forcibly taken away by an unknown second party. In the "meta-narrative" side of things, the player enters the game of Deltarune, but in the narrative, Red enters an alternate universe, timeline, or world from wherever they originally came from. Much like the characters in Inception entering a dream, Red must enter Deltarune through some sort of device/vessel for whatever reason. But why is Gaster doing this? We may have an answer in Undertale.

Very little is known about Gaster in Undertale, but we can learn a little about him through his various Goner followers and through entry 17.

Entry 17 states:

ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN DARK DARKER YET DARKER THE DARKNESS KEEPS GROWING THE SHADOWS CUTTING DEEPER PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT SEEMS VERY VERY INTERESTING ... WHAT DO YOU TWO THINK

Though vague, it implies that whatever Gaster was working on involved darkness in some way, the same power that creates the Dark Worlds in Deltarune. Some further insight into what his creation entailed can be found through his followers.

It makes sense why ASGORE took so long to hire a new Royal Scientist. After all, the old one... Dr. Gaster. What an act to follow! They say he created the CORE. However, his life... Was cut short. One day, he fell into his creation, and... Will Alphys end up the same way? ================================================== Alphys might work faster. But the old Royal Scientist, Doctor W.D. Gaster? One day, he vanished without a trace. They say he shattered across time and space. Ha ha... How can I say so without fear? I'm holding a piece of him right here ================================================== I understand why ASGORE waited so long to hire a new Royal Scientist. The previous one... Dr. Gaster. His brilliance was irreplaceable. However, his life... Was cut short. One day, his experiments went wrong, and... Well, I needn't gossip. After all, it's rude to talk about someone who's listening.

Now we have some more insight into Gaster's life. We now know that he created the CORE, "fell into his creation" which "cut his life short" and caused him to be "shattered through time and space". He was then replaced by Alphys long after.

Using these details and details from the movie Inception, I will now create a basis for what might have happened to Gaster, what his experiment might have been, and even the secret the super-bosses know.

Dreams and Universes

At the end of each chapter, each of the lightners that enter with Kris express disbelief of their adventures, asking if their adventures were dreams.

When entering a dark world, the characters enter a dream-like state in the light world, yet have an adventure that seems real to them. This matches up with Inception's portrayal of shared dreams, or dreams-within-dreams. While in a dream, the dreamer has no idea they are dreaming, they believe the world they are in is real.

ARIADNE But are you trying to fool him that the dream is actually real life?

COBB (nods) While we're in there, We don't want him to realize he's dreaming.

ARIADNE How could I ever get enough detail to Convince him that it's real?

COBB Our dreams reel real while we're in them. It's only when we wake up we realize things were strange. Ariadne gestures around them ARIADNE But all the textures of real life- the stone, the fabric. cars... people... your mind can't create all this.

COBB It does. Every time you dream. Let me ask you a question∶ You never remember the beginning of your dreams, do you? You just turn up in the middle of what's going on.

Once the dreamer is aware that they are dreaming in a basic shared dream, the world around them is destroyed in order to awaken the dreamer. The importance of not destroying the illusion then takes on an additional layer of danger, as the traveler must now escape deadly scenarios within the dream in order to keep it going.

A similar depiction of the importance of not breaking dreams can be found at the beginning of Deltarune Chapter 2. In it, Lancer turns to stone because he can't fit into the environment of the Cyber World.

So does that mean the Dark Worlds are literal dreams? Well, no, because there are hints that they are real, like Kris creating one at the end of chapter 2. The biggest clue, however, is in Entry 17: if Gaster is working on the same darkness that powers the Dark Fountain, then that means that the Dark Worlds do exist somehow. But how? Well, let me introduce you to Limbo. In Inception, Limbo is a realm that appears when a person goes deeper into a multi-layered dream than intended, or dies in a multi-layered dream; once in Limbo, a person forgets that they are dreaming and accepts Limbo as their reality. Only by dying in a dream can one escape Limbo.

The description of limbo and multilayered dreams fits Gaster's story of being shattered across time and space. Perhaps whatever Gaster was working on was meant to be a portal to another world/universe/timeline. This could be supported by some of the genocide dialogue from Sans.

our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting… until suddenly, everything ends.

Instead of going to one alternate universe/world/timeline, Gaster's machine broke down and he went through all the universes/worlds/timelines at once, losing himself spiritually in the process, as one would go through in Limbo. Limbo then introduces the next part of this theory, what else was Gaster working on?

Gaster's secret experiment - AKA the dangers of recreation

From what the followers tell us, Gaster was replaced by Alphys. Alphys' main experiment shown in the Secret Lab is reviving monsters that have fallen down with a substance called Determination.

I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living… The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power… "Determination." ASGORE asked everyone outside the city for monsters that had "fallen down." Their bodies came in today. They're still comatose… And soon, they'll all turn into dust. But what happens if I inject "determination" into them? If their SOULS persist after they perish, then… Freedom might be closer than we all thought.

After injecting the monsters with determination, Alphys is able to revive the monsters for a short time.

Everyone that had fallen down... ... has woken up. They're all walking around and talking like nothing is wrong. I thought they were goners...?

But the bodies cannot handle the determination, and they fuse together to become the Amalgamates. What is interesting about Alphys' experiments in the context of Deltarune is that Alphys refers to the flower that becomes Flowey as a vessel, the same phrase used by Gaster in the vessel creation sequence at the beginning of Deltarune. She also refers to the various fallen monsters as goners, which is similar to the goners that infamously "follow" Gaster. All of this implies that Goners are dead monster souls in monster-like vessels, but unlike Alphys' experiment, the Goners aren't gooey amalgams; their original forms are still intact. The vessel sequence at the beginning of Deltarune may provide the answer to why the Goner forms are still the same; instead of being injected with Determination, Red is offered various body parts to create a vessel. It seems that Gaster's method of resurrecting souls is more mechanical than Alphys' organic solution. However, there's a catch, all of the Goners look grey and sickly in comparison to their living equivalents, this can be seen in action with the clamgirl Goner.

I think the closest equivalent to the Goners in Inception are what the movie calls "projections", specifically sub-Mal. In Inception, Cobb and his wife Mal both entered Limbo and recreated buildings from their lives. In doing so, Mal forgot that she was dreaming and accepted Limbo as reality. In order to escape Limbo, Cobb had to convince Mal that her "reality" wasn't real, but once she awakens, the idea that her reality is false never leaves her, and she kills herself in the real world in an attempt to wake up from her perceived dream. This backstory is similar to that of the superbosses, specifically what Seam tells about Jevil.

Like Mal, Jevil is told something that affects his perception of reality, he begins to see his life as a game, something that isn't real and therefore acts drastically different than the person he used to be before.

The truth the superbosses could know is that they can't escape the dark world and be freed because it is another universe/timeline/world than the Light World. Like the dreams in Inception, one must "wake up" to escape, which ultimately involves death. Alternatively, the truth that superbosses know is that the darkners don't actually exist. Inception explains that projections are people created by the subconscious that cease to exist once the dreamer awakens. Like Lancer turning to stone and the super-bosses turning to items, once the projection is no longer needed, it essentially disappears. The most notable projection seen in Inception, however, is the aforementioned Sub-Mal.

After his wife's death, Cobb learns not to recreate memories, however he continues to dream about moments he regrets in order to try and fix them.

ARIADNE But these aren't just dreams, are they? They're memories. You said never to use memories. COBB And I shouldn't. ARIADNE You're keeping her alive. COBB No. ARIADNE You can't let her go. COBB No. These are moments I regret. Moments I turned into dreams so I could change them.

This causes a subconscious projection of Mal to chase down Cobb and sabotage his dream missions in order to fulfill his greatest regret: not staying and growing old with her. However, sub-Mal is a pale imitation of the real thing.

COBB I can't stay here to be with her because she's not real. Mal looks at Cobb, furious. MAL Not real? I'm the only thing you do believe in anymore. Here-doesn't this feel real, Dom? COBB I wish you were. But I couldn't make you real. I'm not capable of imagining you in all your complexity and… perfection. As you really were. You're the best I can do. And you're not real.

I think, like Sub-Mal, the Goners are (sort of literally) pale imitations of the monsters and a human they originally were in life. Once their SOUL merges with the vessel, they become shells of their former selves, like what happened to Asriel when he became Flowey. This is probably why Gaster's vessel creation in Deltarune was overthrown by the mysterious Detractor, who tells Gaster and Red that they can't choose who they are in this world. The Detractor knows the truth about the Goners and, for whatever reason, doesn't want that fate for Red.

All of this then sheds a terrifying light on a certain character.

Let's talk about Ralsei

Ralsei is really, really odd. There's a lot that suggests he is hiding details from the FUN gang, to the point where comprehensive lists have been made about it (https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/up2cum/a_coherent_list_of_all_the_times_ralsei_has_acted/). The details from Inception only make Ralsei more suspicious. Like Cobb, Ralsei recreates real locations in a place where they shouldn't be.

Like sub-Mal, he is superficially similar to a real world person, that being Asriel, well, mostly. Because there's one small detail that people tend to overlook and that is Kris' red horned headband.

The meta-narrative could be that Ralsei is a representation of the player's memories of Asriel and Undertale, but the narrative is that Ralsei is Kris' childhood memories of their brother and how they perceive themselves.

Alternatively, under Jaru's controversial Ralsei theory, Ralsei is a dark world representation of Kris' guilt over Asriel's death. In Inception, Cobb feels guilty over Mal's death because the reason she killed herself is tied to himself telling her that her perceived reality is false. Sub-Mal then reflects his guilt in his dreams by acting violently to fulfill his desire to stay with her and make things right. Kris, like Cobb, could have either directly or indirectly created Ralsei as a personification of their guilt for killing Asriel or being inadvertently involved in his death, as was the case with Cobb and Mal. Ralsei would then be a way for Kris to make things right, but much like Sub-Mal is only a "shade" of the original person, Ralsei is not quite like Asriel. This uncanny nature of not quite being Asriel is ultimately what makes Kris uncomfortable around Ralsei. I am not the biggest fan of the dead Asriel theory, but this connection is interesting enough to consider.

Whether Ralsei represents childhood memories or a reflection of Kris' guilt over Asriel's death, this does not mean that Ralsei is completely innocent. In Inception, Sub-Mal uses the Limbo recreation of her and Cobb's penthouse to try to convince him to stay with her. This casts suspicion on Ralsei's recreation of Kris' room, as well as the other Dark World rooms seen in Chapter 2. Is he doing it out of kindness to make the Lighters comfortable, or is he trying to lure them into the Dark World to stay there forever? If he is trying to lure all the darkners and lightners to stay in one place, why? Does he have morally good reasons for doing this, despite how terrible the situation is? Sadly, I feel like all of these questions are big mysteries that the game is still working on, but I have a feeling that the answer may be very much related to Ralsei's goal of fulfilling the prophecy by any means necessary.

So what can be pulled from all this? Like the movie Inception, Deltarune deals with nested realities, instead of dreams it is universes, worlds, or timelines. The deeper the lightners go into the dark world, the more difficult it becomes for them to perceive reality and fiction.

As in Inception, breaking the rules of the dream causes the dream to break, such as the darkners turning to stone. Also like Inception, there's a sneaky implication of the dangers of recreating reality through dreams with the characters of Gaster, who creates Goners who are shells of their former selves, and Ralsei, who is suspicious and recreates home life in the dark world. Like Inception, knowing the truth of the dream, that the dream world isn't real and the only way out is death, breaks those who learn the truth and turns them into more reckless people.

At the end of Inception, Cobb wakes up on a plane and goes home to see his children again. His totem, an object meant to represent reality, is a top. His top keeps spinning, which is a sign that he is still dreaming, but it wobbles a bit, and the camera never shows if it keeps spinning or if it falls, which leads to the interpretation of whether he is still asleep or not. But that doesn't matter to him, what matters is that he can see his children again, as he wanted to. This reflects Deltarune's "choices don't matter" moniker, it doesn't matter if Cobb is still asleep or not, because he gets his happy ending.

This line of logic could allude to the theory that a true happy ending is not supposed to be possible in Deltarune, which is reflected in an infamous tweet reply from Toby Fox.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune meta #deltarune analysis #deltarune speculation #utdr theory #utdr analysis #utdr meta #utdr speculation #utdr #undertale #undertale theory #undertale meta #undertale analysis #undertale speculation #inception #long post #springy thoughts #tw suicide

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deltaruminations · 1 year

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Some Thoughts on Memoryhead That Were Supposed To Be Mostly Related to Gaster Knight But Then I Just Got Really Deep Into Talking About Memoryhead (AKA Sad Sack Scientists Squad Theory)

(Don't worry, Alphys won't be ignored in this.)

(Also the SSSS Theory thing is a joke please dont take the "theory" thing too seriously LOL)

In my recent slapdash summary of the possible mechanisms/indications of Gaster Knight Theory (GKT), I mentioned that information from Undertale's Memoryhead could be seen as contributing to two points:

Gaster has spent time in Dark Worlds in the past (according to GKT, ones he created), and likely the ones we've seen so far in the game (not Kris's).

Gaster's desire for a "NEW FUTURE" is motivated at least in part by feelings of regret and possibly guilt.

Here's a little bit of my reasoning for that. just kidding here's way more reasoning than you could have possibly ever wanted

(This is to a certain degree a very rough draft of a section of a bigger analysis. It involves opinionated readings of ambiguous information and I don't want to set the expectation that it's solid evidence of anything, but I think it's VERY, VERY INTERESTING possibly a worthwhile read for anyone who likes in-depth emotional/thematic analysis and/or obsessive overthinking of small details lmao)

A preliminary note on Alphys

Before Deltarune chapter 1 released, bringing with it further (possible) contextualization of some of the True Lab's outstanding mysteries, it was commonly thought that Memoryhead was a manifestation of Alphys's shame and regret over the DETERMINATION experiments.

I want to take a moment here to acknowledge that Alphys and her story are often overlooked and treated with contempt by much of the fanbase, and there's historically a tiring trend of Alphys revisionism, in which indications of her aptitude and achievement as a scientist or depth as a character are arbitrarily attributed instead to one skeleton man or another.

To be entirely clear: the True Lab sequence is without a doubt Alphys's story. While it may serve secondary purposes in offering lore and fleshing out Undertale's broader narrative, the primary purpose of this sequence is to contextualize Alphys's depression and feelings of worthlessness, as well as to demonstrate the importance of her scientific work and her capacity for compassion, responsibility, and bravery. The overwhelming majority of what we experience there is unquestionably meant to illustrate how Alphys's actions resulted in pain for others, and the grief she feels as a result.

(If anyone's interested in an in-depth reading of her character, Dorked made a great video on the topic.)

That said, I'm not proposing this analysis arbitrarily. While Memoryhead as a thematic symbol does contribute to and reinforce our understanding of Alphys in significant ways, there was always room for reasonable doubt as to whether Memoryhead as an in-universe phenomenon originated with her or was meant to describe only her. With the new context of Deltarune, I think we can identify further possibilities for Memoryhead as a component of that game's story as well as Undertale's. Wherever appropriate, I'll discuss its connections to Alphys Undertale as well as potential relevance to Gaster Deltarune. I believe that understanding her story may help to inform our understanding of his as well.

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Memoryhead's nature

Memoryhead seems to be distinct from the other True Lab entities in several ways:

It appears in a group of three, rather than as one individual.

It isn’t an obvious amalgamation of identifiable monsters (or, in Endogeny's case, category of monsters) from Undertale. It doesn't comprise recognizable monster components in its sprite, attack patterns, or ACT options.

It doesn't appear in the epilogue.

It doesn't have a grave in Deltarune's cemetery alongside the other Amalgamates encountered.

(Side note: I just realized I totally forgot about Reaper Bird, who, despite having identifiable monster components, is pretty weird in their own right. They don't appear in the epilogue or cemetery, and the whole thing about Everyman is its own mystery that I can't even begin to guess at currently.)

Because Memoryhead is the first encounter in the True Lab, players are likely to take these differences for granted, as they don't know yet to expect anything else. With hindsight, however, this information seems to indicate that Memoryhead manifested via a different mechanism than DT injection.

I don't want to get too deep into guessing at the mechanisms underlying its existence. There's not a whole lot to go off of right now. My best guess based on context clues is that it's a byproduct of DT extraction, rather than injection -- it occurred when Alphys and/or Gaster extracted their own DT. However, that brings up a lot of further questions (ex. who made the blueprints/machine? Was Gaster "erased" from existence/memory in the Undertale universe, or did he simply disappear one day and no one brings him up anymore?), and I don't know if we're (read: I'm) prepared to answer them yet.

For our purposes right now, I think we just need to take for granted that Memoryheads manifested out of Alphys or Gaster somehow, reflect bad memories held by one or both of them, and keep moving.

(Kind of silly, but another aside: the Amalgamates in Undertale seem to be a direct evolution of an idea found in Toby Fox's first video game project, the Halloween Hack -- a ROM hack of Earthbound. As many others have noted, Deltarune seems to be in many ways a re-examination of ideas & themes first explored in the Halloween Hack. I'm not sure if that actually means anything in this particular discussion, but it's among the reasons why I went specifically for a ROM hacking metaphor and not a general programming or game development one and also i just think it’s cool.)

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Memoryhead encounter

Attack pattern

Memoryhead has one bullet type and pattern (depicted above). This bullet is (to my knowledge) unique to it.

There are a number of things about this attack pattern that, when taken together, could be considered reflective of Gaster, specifically:

It's been noted many times by fans that the "face" sprite used in the bullets strongly recalls the eyes and smile of spr_mysteryman.

They are sometimes placed outside the visible bounds of the bullet box, existing beyond what's expected to be the intended plane.

Because of the timing of the bullets' placements & transformations, several identical instances of the face appear simultaneously across the box, yet no two concurrently-appearing faces are ever in the exact same state at the same time.

When attacked, Memoryhead actually becomes stronger, gaining HP far beyond the maximum.

For an emotional analysis: the rapid and randomized placement of the bullets, as well as the faces' erratic writhing motions, evoke unpredictability and unknowable intention. The crude simplicity of the faces abstracts away relatable features, leaving only the eerie, jittering smiles to suggest that they either delight in attempting to harm the Player, or that they're so far removed from "humanity" as to lack recognizable emotion or intent.

For perspective, we could compare this against Everyman -- while its sprite is also abstract, simple, and a little unsettling, with a featureless, unemotional face, its round, bipedal form and expressive movements inspire a certain amount of sympathy and even pity.

I also find it interesting that the Memoryheads dissolve away just before their attacks and then reconstitute just after. To me, this lends the impression that they are either becoming the bullets in some way, or hiding from them. Again, this is ambiguous. We could take it a few different ways.

It might seem bizarre to discuss the characterization of a magical bullet that presumably has no inherent consciousness, personality, or agency. However, I believe the choices in emotional storytelling here (as with all sources of Gaster Lore in Undertale) are in conversation with Deltarune's choices for him, especially in his direct "appearances," and how we as previous Undertale Players look at & interpret that information.

ACTs/Dialogue

Memoryhead is fundamentally connected to phones, as well as the concept of "connection" in general. Before the CELL act is used, it plays a dialtone and offers only visual noise in its speech bubble, as though it's calling and waiting for someone to pick up. After that point, it offers some peculiar dialogue:

Notably, it can only be spared by picking up the phone (allowing them to entreat the Player) and then refusing its advances. Accepting them results (IIRC) in an instant game over.

It's obvious how Alphys is reflected in an entity themed around connection, that can only communicate by phone -- phones are used throughout the game as a device (GET IT????) to explore facets of her anxiety, anxiety that both led her to make regrettable choices and was further exacerbated by the effects of those choices, and prevented her from seeking help when she needed it.

Gaster's connection to phones is less concrete. There may be some visual indicators in the battle sprite, which I'll get to in a bit.

I also think the dialogue here could be very telling of something that doesn't explicitly indicate either of them -- but if we hold that it might be descriptive of Gaster, then it could be seen as an indication that he's involved in the corruption and/or betrayal of the Dark World secret bosses.

At face value, Memoryheads' dialogue seems to simply be entreating Frisk to join them, the Memoryheads, among their legion of constituent memories. Allow them to hurt you, so your bad memory of that pain can join them.

While there's value in that interpretation, I also think that having the Memoryheads appear in a group (as I said, this is unique among True Lab entities) is intended in part to obscure an alternative reading: the Memoryheads' dialogue actually reflects the contents of its memories -- of its source's painful experiences.

From that perspective, we learn that whoever spawned the Memoryhead may be haunted by some form of corrupted connection. They were, perhaps, drawn into some kind of movement or group and now regret their participation, and/or they themselves recruited others into such a group (could we consider shadow crystal holders such a group?), depending on whether you see the dialogue as being their words or someone else's.

The fact that refusal causes the Memoryheads to lose interest could suggest a few different things, but among them is the idea that the entreating party was looking for easy targets. Simply asserting "no" may have been enough to cause them to lose interest and move on. The memory holder may regret, among other things, that they said yes to something, or that someone else said yes to them.

Another very specific sub-detail of ACTs I think is worth discussing is the Bad Memory (described as a piece of Memoryhead itself) that's placed in a Player's inventory upon using the ITEM option.

The Part Where I Ramble For Several Paragraphs About Bad Memory

A seemingly obtuse detail of the Bad Memory is that consuming it in most circumstances will result in 1 point of damage -- but consuming it when HP is at 3 or lower results in a full heal. Mechanically, this makes it a useful last-ditch healing item for late game battles, but narratively? It's definitely a strange choice -- in theory (and acknowledging that most Players never do this in practice), consuming Bad Memories over and over again slowly depletes our energy, but once we approach maximum vulnerability, one more Bad Memory will unexpectedly make us strong again. I think we could say something there about healing through the long, painful process of confrontation, and also about the risks and inefficacy of stewing endlessly in regret.

The Bad Memory cannot be dropped, as it always "comes back." However, it can be put in the Dimensional Box for storage, sold at the Tem shop (the only shop that will purchase items), or consumed.

From an emotional storytelling perspective, this could be taken to suggest that the memories comprising Memoryhead can only be dealt with through compartmentalization, externalization (i.e. "sharing" it with others by communicating about it), or confrontation of the memories internally and in solitude.

These aren't equivalent options. Compartmentalization causes it to be out of the way, but still taking up valuable space; externalization requires carrying the memory for a time, but when the right opportunity arises, we can release it to someone who finds it valuable (just as Tem is willing to pay money for Bad Memories); internal confrontation can lead to great healing, but it demands vulnerability, may be painful, and without caution, could put us at risk.

It's very obvious how this reflects Alphys's character growth. She compartmentalizes the outcomes of her mistakes down in the True Lab, hiding them away from others, while forcing herself to care for them on her own without support. Repeatedly confronting that regret (as well as provocation by Flowey) breaks her down until she's at her most vulnerable and most exhausted, and then she faces a choice: to either admit to what she's done, or end the grief herself. Admitting to her actions allows her to move on, while providing something tremendously valuable in return: for the Amalgamates and their loved ones, the opportunity to finally reunite; and for the Players, a treasure trove of information and arguably one of the best sequences in the entire game.

How does any of this reflect Gaster's character or story? i was going to editorialize on this a bit and then realized i was drifting too far into the minimally-evidenced opinion zone so instead i’ll just say maybe we’ll see parallels between Alphys’s bad memories and Gaster’s Bad Memories develop over time.

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The Sprite

This is where the biggest indications of a relationship to Gaster Deltarune and possible indications of his activities in Dark World MAY, ARGUABLY, be found. This section also touches on some of the most ambiguous information and the shakiest conclusions. Bear with me here.

Chatty Skull Imagery

i was gonna include images in this section but i think the post is too long and tumblrs mad at me now and doesn’t like my pictures so. sorry :(

Memoryhead's battle sprite is commonly seen to resemble a brain with a spinal cord curling underneath, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'd also argue it looks like a cartoon speech bubble -- this was actually how I initially read it when playing the game. These are both consistent with its memory theming and communication through the cell phone.

In addition to the above imagery, I've also seen arguments that it resembles a skull speaking on a phone: (imagine static image of sprite next to animated one lol)

This becomes a little more apparent in the animation, as its bobbing motion gives the impression of the skull's mouth opening and closing. While the phone aspect of this is immediately consistent with the ACT options, and "head" would certainly refer to a skull more literally than a brain, there's still some ambiguity as to what, if anything, the use of a skull could mean.

It's possible that the suggestion of a skull is simply meant to contribute to the eeriness of the image. However, I feel that Undertale's precedents for skull imagery tend toward greater nuance. Sans and Papyrus are introduced early on as cute, charming characters, subverting common associations with humanoid skulls. The more frightening instances of skull imagery -- the DT extractor, God of Hyperdeath's ultimate attack, and Gaster Blasters -- recall an animal or monster's skull, not a human's.

These latter examples are also arguably meaningful beyond their unsettling nature: the DT extractor (as well as Flowey X's resemblance to it) and God of Hyperdeath's attack are both tied to Asriel's death and incomplete resurrection, while the Gaster Blasters have something to do with Gaster I Guess (or at least demonstrate a connection between him and Sans and bolster other indications of his skeleton-ness).

If we hold it to be true that a humanoid skull is present in Memoryhead's sprite, and an unsettling one in particular, then it may not be too much of a stretch to think there's narrative or symbolic intent underlying that choice. It doesn't automatically follow that it's an image of WD Gaster speaking into a phone, but it does seem to raise that as a possibility. I should mention, too, that this is consistent with what I feel to be a running theme of obfuscating information about Gaster, as well as influencing our interpretations of that information, through the emotional language of eldritch unease and the abstraction of his character.

HIDDEN SECRETS REVEALED!!!!!!!!!!

Last but not least, we have what is possibly the most crucial and also wildly opinionated interpretive "evidence" of the analysis: Memoryhead's faces. I'm still skeptical of this myself, so make of it what you will.

Some fans have raised the possibility that Memoryhead's faces are depictions of the secret bosses. This is based on their belief that Jevil and Spamton's faces can be seen on the left of the sprite.

(Image created by u/TheQueen0fNowhere, found in thread linked above)

This would suggest that the secret bosses are the constituent memories in question, or at least representative of them.

As cool as this possibility is, there's clearly a lot of room for doubt. I've listed a few possible issues in the Caveats section at the end.

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Synthesis WRT Gaster Knight

There's a great deal of storytelling around Memoryhead that seemingly points to it being directly connected to Gaster in some way.

If Memoryhead is a reflection of Gaster's bad memories, then it suggests that he feels some amount of grief, regret, or guilt over failed and/or "corrupted" attempts to connect with others. This may have involved manipulation, of which he may have been a victim and/or a perpetrator.

Deltarune's current trend for secret bosses holds that they've all "lost themselves" and experienced some form of hardship and pain (maybe excluding Jevil lol he's just having a good time) as a result of interacting with the unseen Roaring Knight and receiving Forbidden Knowledge from them. Spamton's story in particular heavily invokes the imagery and symbolism of phones as a medium for connection, and explores the inherent vulnerability of trusting or depending on others.

Some admittedly pretty ambiguous imagery in Memoryhead's sprite may be very directly tying it to Deltarune's secret bosses, in turn potentially tying them to Gaster. While less explicit, the specificity of the themes, imagery, and symbols in common between Gaster, Memoryhead, and the Secret Bosses still suggest that Memoryhead could connect the two... wait... con... connect... oh my god

Memoryhead also serves to underscore major aspects of Alphys's experience of regret and trauma, specifically due to actions that were motivated by duty to and love for her society, but were marred by incomplete knowledge and exacerbated by a reticence to admit to her mistakes or seek help.

If we hold it to be true that Memoryhead can represent meaningful storytelling for both characters simultaneously, then we have reason to think that their stories may also be in some way parallels. While this isn't the only conclusion that could be drawn, it does seem reasonably consistent with Gaster's characterization in Deltarune -- assuming that we both recognize and are willing to trust that characterization. We do, after all, have indications that he's capable of manipulation in pursuit of a cause.

---

Assorted thoughts that aren't immediately relevant but I figured I'd make note of them anyway

There's a pretty clear allusion to Deltarune's Man in the True Lab but I didn't really get into it because idk the most concrete thing it really tells us is that Lab Related to Gaster and i feel like it's already been fairly self-evident for years why traces of him would be found in the lab. it's literally the habitat asgore made for his pet scientists and filled with important enrichment such as a kitchenette and fun toys with which to commit well-intended atrocities. of course gaster worked/lived there lol i do personally think the language of an undescribed "man" (like, not mysteryman or everyman or snowman, simply A Man) is being used to indicate that Gaster Our Good Friend Gaster (the "actual" guy, who's incorporeal and may have kind of a dispersed perspective but retains contiguity of consciousness) is present in an area, as opposed to just remnants or echoes of him. but i think that's a justification post for later

Others have pointed out the similarities between the Shower Creature in the True Lab and the things that shoot bullets in the "??????" area (spooky supply closet area) in Deltarune. I do not have any real idea about What This Means in particular but it's another interesting connection to keep in mind in the future.

Oh boy the DR team did sort of reference the shower curtain in Spamton Sweepstakes didn't they

Sort of related to that, I do have some vague opinions about the possible nature of the Watching Man (see Wiki article above) who approaches menacingly only to sweetly tuck Frisk in and peace out. but i feel like i need to spend more time on other stuff before I can even begin to justify those, and even then i'll be swinging for the fences i think

i was also going to postulate on how memoryheads name being blank also means stuff maybe but then i forgot and now im too tired. but an empty space for a name could be consistent with our guy. honestly i think the stuff around gasters name is really interesting in general esp if we consider it alongside the isolation and erasure (both possibly self-inflicted) and what it might say about his relationship to himself (deep unease at the very least, id guess lol)

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Caveats

I want to acknowledge some important possible pitfalls in these interpretations with regard to GKT:

Most obviously, it remains to be seen whether any of the secret bosses from future chapters are represented among Memoryhead's faces.

Kris's fountain in general could potentially destabilize many aspects of GKT as I currently see it. Concerning Memoryhead in particular, the logic here assumes that Gaster (from his perspective) previously interacted with Deltarune's secret bosses. If we do see the secret boss of Kris's (or any other characters') Dark World represented, then what does that mean? Does it mean that Kris opening their Fountain is something that happened in Gaster's past, and is not a new twist in the Deltarune universe's trajectory? Does it mean that Gaster somehow visited those Dark Worlds as well? Right now, I'm not sure what we can make of that. While I'm not sure it would necessarily disprove the general idea that Gaster has some regrets about the secret bosses, for some reasons, it would destabilize many of the ideas laid out here.

The above two thoughts lead to another possibility: that Gaster wasn't opening Fountains himself, but was somehow simply interacting with the secret bosses on the side. Again, not sure what to make of that right now.

There's another possibility for why both Alphys and Gaster seem to be reflected in Memoryhead: perhaps Memoryhead is a manifestation of bad memories she has about him, and not directly reflective of his thoughts or experiences. I chose not to get into this because it begs a lot more questions that are hard to answer and i think the above interpretations pretty successfully counter-indicate it. but also the idea of that honestly just makes me feel very ":/ ok" (listen im very earnestly trying not to woobify the guy but i also think his flaws and potential for villainy are likely more nuanced than outright malice or a disregard for other people or whatever.) But anyway i figured i should acknowledge it

#deltarune #deltarune theory #$ 666 mystery man lore hell #$ chadley deltaruminations original lorepost corner #$ waltz of a shattered man #wd gaster #im not really sure if i should tag this undertale bc it’s really ultimately about the other game

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stainedglassthreads · 1 year

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Headcanon that I don’t believe is fact whatsoever, because I’m still not convinced Chara and Frisk are in Deltarune to begin with. But imagine if Ralsei weren’t based off of Kris’ idea of Asriel or what they wanted to be like at all.

Imagine if Chara were the one behind Ralsei’s creation. If, in Undertale we explored Asriel/Flowey’s misconceptions and idealization of Chara, and now in Deltarune we get to explore Chara’s misconceptions and idealization of Asriel.

Again, I'm not really convinced that Chara is the one who interrupted the survey. But I’ve seen some interesting analysis about the survey, and about how it feels like Ralsei was not initially meant to be a part of the narrative, even if Kris, Susie, and Noelle were all always meant to. So I was briefly wondering if the same person who interrupts the survey is also the same person who created Ralsei. (Mostly going off of gut feelings here, I’ll admit. I think Gaster and a second entity are both trying to ‘alter the narrative.’ Gaster does talk about a ‘new’ future in the Twitter so... are Ralsei and Kris both an attempt by ‘someone’ to change the future?)

But. Anyways. I dunno. It’s been mentioned previously that Ralsei parallels Flowey in many ways, and seems to reflect the fandom’s perception of Undertale Asriel. He’s certainly the precise opposite of Deltarune Asriel. Deltarune Asriel, whose presence can be strongly felt in Hometown even when he’s absent. Who all of Hometown can’t shut up about, who most of Hometown thinks they share a special connection with. Compare it all to Ralsei, the lonely prince who Noelle and Berdly don’t remark upon at all, who other Darkners will refer to as a ‘Lightner’, who is the biggest proponent of how Darkners should be subservient to the Lightners, who just melts into a puddle of clothes and vanishes when he loses all his HP.

I do think that Chara was probably a fairly introverted and shy personality. Certainly, Asriel was a lot louder than them during the recorded tapes. But at times it does sort of match up? Asriel was Chara’s best friend, and Ralsei wants to be our best friend. Asriel and the other Dreemurrs showed Chara unconditional love and compassion, and Ralsei initially believes that ‘being nice’ is all you really need to be friends. Asriel followed Chara’s plan to free monsterkind, and Ralsei is very stubborn about Kris being the one to make decisions, Kris being the leader, Kris having the power to make choices, to the point Susie needs to force him to make his own decisions. Asriel was a pacifist and refused to kill the whole village even though he was willing to collect seven souls at first, and Ralsei makes a point about Mercy being the best choice (but will attack if Kris orders him to do so.)

If he is Chara’s idea of Asriel, then no wonder he has no idea how to be very “Ralsei-like.” He’s the echo of a ghost of an otherworldly reflection.

It is kinda interesting, though, how one of the most remembered of UT!Asriel’s traits is that Asriel is a crybaby, with even Chara remarking on it, but Ralsei... isn’t much of a crybaby? Like Toriel, he’s not very emotional at all, really. He’s more the type to just move along and not really address his own emotions. Either they can address the problem later, or there’s nothing they can really do about it at all.

It’s also interesting in that he isn’t completely without similarities to Chara. I feel like a similarity could be drawn in how it’s implied you Chara was reawoken by Frisk, and though beginning as a passive entity, is taught by Frisk’s actions. Either shown that everyone they cared for once has been saved, or taught that power is the only thing that matters. Likewise, Ralsei has been taught by Susie and Kris’ actions that sometimes fighting is necessary. He also seems to have some awareness of both the Light World, stats and game interfaces, and the separation between Kris and the Player.

Again, I still have lots of doubts about Chara being in Deltarune, but... it’s an interesting headcanon to toy around with? Flowey misses his best friend so much that he thinks they returned when he called their name. Chara misses their best friend so much that they create a warped reflection of him, and watch him slowly become the prince he never got the chance to be, adventuring along with some other human. Slowly becoming someone different. Someone... distinctly not Asriel. At what point are they forced to realize that Ralsei was never, ever Asriel?

#deltarune headcanon

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zinnia-apologist · 2 years

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If you'll excuse me, I'm about to go into Deltarune Theory Mode, about something I've had brewing in the back of my mind for months. I want to be the first person on record about this, if my theory is correct.

I don't think that the speaker in the SURVEY_PROGRAM intro is Gaster. Or any character we've already met.

First off, the speaker does not use either Wingdings or Aster as his font. Instead, he uses the game's default font (introduced with a glowing variation, before later reverting to the regular sharp-edges version), in a slow and deliberate typing style with no sound for his voice.

Next, the theme that plays during the intro is obviously inspired by Gaster's theme, but the titles are interesting -- Gaster's theme is "mus_st_him", whereas the music during the intro is "Another Him" -- seemingly citing another individual, rather than being another theme for the same character.

This character seems to be very heavily tied to communication and connection. In the mysterious tweets preceding the game's reveal, the character spoke of being in contact soon, and that he and you are on the verge of connection. When you start the game, he asks, "ARE WE CONNECTED?"

Jevil and Spamton are, of course, implied to have been getting information from a mystery character, often theorized to be Gaster. Jevil met a strange man, whose knowledge drove him mad from the revelation. Spamton was in constant contact with a person who brought him success, until suddenly he was cut off from his benefactor and similarly spiraled into madness. Both Spamton and Jevil are unique in having real spoken voice clips; notably, in the SURVEY_PROGRAM intro, one of the gifts you can give to the discarded vessel is VOICE as well.

(Sidenote, the only other voice clips are the singer of Don't Forget/Until Next Time, and the "HEY" in It's Pronounced "Rules" that Rouxls also says in a speech bubble. I think both are significant, but that's more for other speculation.)

Personally, I do think that Gaster was Spamton's benefactor, as well as the mystery man who met Jevil. But I don't think he was the voice at the beginning of the game.

Seeing as the default font, and therefore his voice, is 8-Bit Operator, I'm choosing to call him The Operator.

An operator can mean a few things. In mathematics, it refers to the function of an equation, such as plus for addition or times for multiplication. In machinery, it refers to the person using the machine. In business, it refers to someone running the enterprise.

More significantly, in telecommunications, the operator is a middle man who facilitates communication, by assisting users or working with the telephone switchboard. Such a person would be responsible for maintaining the connection between Gaster and Spamton during their phone calls -- as well as potentially being the reason that contact is lost, and why an attempted phone call might only return garbage noise.

Another meaning of operator is a manipulator. Someone controlling, someone who makes other people do what he wants. Someone who pulls the strings. The Operator very well could have manipulated Gaster or those he offers his help to.

My personal theory? Is that the Operator sabotaged Gaster's experiment and caused his disappearance, potentially due to him knowing too much and sharing too much. For as much as Gaster has a spooky reputation, everyone who talks about him seems to agree that he's quite the honorable and charitable man. The dissonance seems a bit too off to attribute to Gaster being a malicious chessmaster, especially for someone whose death was an accident.

I also think a lot about how the Operator speaks about connecting you. He's the one who tells you that your choices don't matter, and that it's not you who you are playing as, but rather, another individual that got saddled with the SOUL you control. Kris, the SOUL, and you-the-player all seem to be fully different entities with fully distinct motivations, that just happen to line up for the plot. The SOUL seems to be a new addition to Kris's life, as of the moment they wake up in the beginning of the game, because up until that very day, Kris acted like a different person. I think the moment the Operator created that connection, was the moment Kris's life changed. And, of course, it's driving Kris absolutely up the wall.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #gaster #wd gaster #8-bit operator

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drowninnoodles · 2 years

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want to talk a little bit about my favorite characters so this is a post about Papyrus, Gaster and Rouxls. (forgive me Mettaton, there is nothing about you)

At the beginning I wanted to add some things to "Papyrus Knight Theory". It will be very chaotic because this is my first post, but if anyone has any ideas, let them write. if someone said something similar, could you give me a link?

And also, use google translator because my English sucks.

First, I saw people think the knight was doing something terrible. 'Cause you know, opening the Fountains leads to Roaring etc. But actually I think Papyrus might be looking for Gaster

I mean, we know Papyrus tried to fix the machine behind the house. And the blueprints for that machine are probably in Wingdings. I think this is the machine the Skelebros are trying to get Gaster out of Deltarune? Or they both want to move to Deltarune.

Gaster fell into his Creation, so he fell into Deltarune (theory only). Or, more specifically, fell into the dark world.

"Dark darker yet Darker"

I think Gaster opened a dark world in a dark world. (Do we know what happens then?)

So to sum up what I mean. I believe Papyrus opens dark worlds to find Gaster.

Second, I want to raise the topic that it was probably the Knight that caused Jevil and Spamton to go crazy. Anyone have any idea what Papyrus might tell them in that case?

I mean, I know people think Gaster told them that they live in the game etc. But what if Papyrus told them something?

I know there is a theory that Papyrus opens up worlds because he wants friends, but I think it would be too easy for Tobys ideas.

Also, We know that Gaster himself is a representation of the Devil from the Bible. I thought that Gaster found out he was lives in the game and defied the creator (Toby / annoying dog) and was thrown into the void for it (removed from the game). You know how the devil fell for defying God.

I also think the Annoying dog is a representation of God. 'Cause Dog is God in reverse

Toby likes anagrams

But that would also suggest that the Gaster is now almost on par with Toby Fox himself.

(I'm not sure I put it right)

It can be said that from a fictional character from the game he becomes a real person

Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating. But I love the Gaster concept because it gives me the feeling of a really good Creepypasta. Anyone have the same?

Maybe I'll do a separate post sometime about how much I like Gaster as the presentation of the Devil in Undertale / Deltarune

CHANGE TOPIC TO SECRET BOSS

I've been wondering about that. And I found something interesting.

Jevil fell out of favor with the king and was locked in a cell. He can be described as a Fallen Angel.

Spamton, which himself has a lot of biblical references, has ceased to be Big Shot and has fallen out of favor as well. May be referred to as Fallen Angel.

Do you know how many Fallen Angels are there?

Seven. As many chapters. And each chapter has one Secret Boss / Fallen Angel.

The last and most important is, of course, Satan. So I think you have high hopes that Gaster himself will appear in Chapter 7.

But do you know who's in front of him? Beelzebub

The one that is said to be strongly related to worms .... Beelzebub is also another name for the devil himself.

Strongly related to worms? -Rouxls Kaard has worms

Another name for the devil? - Rouxls looks very similar to MysteryMan, which is probably Gaster

"Baal" means Lord. And Rouxls Kaard referred to himself as Lord of the Puzzles.

If you have other connections between them, please write to me.

By the way, Beelzebub is sixth in the line of Demons.

Secret enemies are in reverse order to the Bosses in Undertale during Genocide.

Following this route, chapter 6 would be a chapter of Papyrus. A We know that Rouxls Kaard is a representation of Papyrus in a dark world. (Just like Jevil is Sans, Spamton is Mettaton etc)

I think Rouxls Kaard will be the secret boss in the Papyrus Chapter.

Rouxls is a great fit as Secret Boss. You know, he has a good chance of falling out of favor, because nobody actually wants him anywhere. He is as forgotten as Papyrus.

What I mean. Jevil was forgotten after he was locked in a cell. No one remembers Spamton after he ended up in the garbage. Rouxls Kaard has not even fallen out of favor yet, and is already forgotten.

Everyone wonders what it looks like when the characters go crazy after meeting a mysterious person. Maybe Rouxls will be an example of this and we will be able to watch him slowly plunging into madness?

By the way. Duke of Puzzles It is also a term for Rouxls. Duke is another word meaning "prince". I sincerely believe that Rouxls Kaard is the Prince From The Dark, and I am not saying this ironically

I just don't think Rouxls knows it yet.

the theme of Deltarune is being forgotten. And the three characters that are forgotten in this story are Gaster, Papyrus and Rouxls Kaard. Maybe they are the real three heroes?

#deltarune theory #gaster #deltarune #undertale #deltarune rouxls #rouxls kaard #papyrus #knight papyrus

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askfallenroyalty · 2 years

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Idk about having Frisk, Chara, Suzy and Feylow together, personally I enjoy the separated A plot/B plot system, in a The Owl House-esque way. Also, Frisk and Chara already had a whole adventure together underground, maybe it would be interesting to have them go separate ways for a while?

As for the MK replacement, I was thinking that it would be cool to have like the chaotic Gaster-related (?) darkner every chapter in Deltarune appears to be having as a party member. Someone who's more like the opposite of Ralsei: while he tries to make sure most major events happen in the way they're supposed to, this new character could try to make things in a way THEY think should happen. Someone who tries to make the whole world revolve around their own vision of what the best narrative for themself would be. Sometimes being considered egoistical by others and even dismissing other's feelings (which could work as like a parallel for the contrast between Susie and Ralsei after the fight with Spamton in DR). I think they would be mostly helpful until the very end, when Chara starts messing with the timelines, which is when I think they would start going crazy because they feel like Chara is trying to go against their story and maybe fighting the AFR!Fun Gang.

I'm not sure if this idea is really that good, I had it while taking a walk. Idk tho, feel free to answer if you want to I guess.

(psst if you could please try to break up your ask by making more paragraphs so it's easier to read. sorry!)

hmm i'm hesitant to make my own Deltarune-esc villain character cause the Knight was kinda the Ultimate one (though, granted, we only had jevil to go off of at the time)

the more i tweak the designs and mess with this I just feel like i'm tryign to work on an impossible task. like, the DW arc IS the meat of AFR. The set up - establishing Chara and Asriel are back from the dead, then oh, plot twist, the other fallen kids are back, and oh! Asriel has left Chara behind. This is Chara reacting to the inciting incident before combatting Asriel. This is AFR.

It's so weird cause like, AFR as a story right now only has a beginning and an ending. I think tying it Deltarune (even tho I was so excited to use it since it was so new at the time) I know that was the wrong move. It's too separate, too fantastical and doing too much different. chapter 2 really solidified that these are two different stories that happen to be connected, rather than an extension of the other.

i don't know.. what to do anymore... i can't like, IGNORE this section, cause its the ACT 2 of the 3 Act structure, it's supposed to be the fun and games of the acts but I can't do anything with it that doesn't break apart. i've set up gaster (loosely) so its not like, it's completely out of nowhere where darkworld stuff gets involved but damn i really wish I could get this to click and i can be happy with it ):

#ooc #tbd #not art #this is a hole i keep digging

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glitchthedemon · 3 months

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Possible Deltarune Theory

I’m going feral send help /hj

I’ve been thinking about this for a while and while it is a little far-fetched I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this to check I’m not connecting dots that aren’t there

anyways v long post so click if u dare

Okkk so general knowledge:

Deltarune shares its name with The Delta Rune. The Delta Rune symbolises The Angel, a being who has seen the surface prophesied to save the Underground and free the monsters. Some interpret it as bringing them to the surface, others interpret that as killing them. It’s often though that the Angel is either Frisk, Chara or Asriel

Asriel:

At the end of Undertales True Pacifist route, you face Asriel - The God of Hyperdeath. In some cultures, Asrael is the name for the Angel of death. His God of Hyperdeath form resembles the symbol of the Angel a.k.a The Deltarune. During his fight, he talks about purging the timeline and create it anew, so he can play with Frisk, who he believes to be Chara, forever.

Main Theory:

What if Deltarune takes place as an alternate timeline where Asriel beat Frisk and remade the timeline. Of course, still being technically a child, and a monster not fit for determination, he likely couldn’t handle that power, which is why everything in Deltarune is so similar but so different to Undertale like the characters roles and relationships. It would also explain why characters like the amalgams have died, because the experiments would’ve never happened

Kris is an interesting part. Since Kris is the only human (just like we were in the Underground) and we don’t see Chara or Frisk appear, I think the in Asriel confusion, he accidentally created a brand new person when trying to create Chara from Frisk. Of course, since he didn’t erase things, only remake them, Frisk and Chara are still alive. Maybe they’re part of Kris’s soul, maybe they’re in the void with Gaster and Dess or maybe we just haven’t seen them yet and I’m wrong - who knows? It’s why Kris looks like a fusion of the two, and if Kris is spelt Chris, it’s also a perfect amalgamation of their names.

I think it’s possible that the new timeline was created we we inhabited Kris body, not from the beginning as kids. Every memory anybody has has just been fabricated for the timeline.

If Asriel is some kind of god that oversees the timeline, it would explain why we don’t see him in world. He possibly just created the college story to explain it away.

Problem is, if Asriel can control everything, what about the Knight? Why is the knight there? Why are they creating the Dark Worlds?

The Problem of the Dark Worlds:

Gonna get a bit meta here TwT

I think the Dark Worlds are created to restore balance. Like I said before, he didn’t erase the timeline, just changed it beyond recognition. Undertale couldn’t exist without the separation between humans and monsters, it would mean the main character has no purpose. You can’t have a game with no rules, after all.

The dark world are created to replace the Underground. Instead of Humans and Monsters, it’s Light and Dark. It’s the same story - human falls into a new world with new people, either makes friends or kills them all, either way they get back to where they came from.

There’s just one problem…

That now leaves the age old question of: Who is the Knight?? It could be someone that would remembers the previous timeline in order to know that there has to be balance, or maybe they’re trying to put the timeline back how it was. Now of course, when it comes to timeline shenanigans, Asriel, Frisk and Chara are the first names I think most of us think of. So: is any of them the Knight? Could they just want things back the way the were? These ideas are enforced by the fact Queen said anyone can open a fountain if they are determined enough, which again, sounds a lot like Asriel, Chara and Frisk.

Other Notes:

Hopes and Dreams (not just Asriel’s theme, but The God of Hyperdeath’s theme specifically) appears several times throughout the soundtrack in both Chapter One and Two, it’s clear that Asriel is definitely going to be an important character.

There are some hints to Undertale itself as well, mainly the fact that you can find Ariel’s design for a final game boss is a “creature with giant rainbow wings” - sound familiar?

The Delta Rune symbol is scattered all over the place, but since it wouldn’t symbolise freedom from the Underground, it shouldn’t be that important, yet it appears in both the Light World and the Dark World

#so anyways yeah #What do u guys think #Not sure if any of that even made sense but oh well #undertale #delatrune #deltarune au #glitch’s rambles #undertale au

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entryno17 · 3 years

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in your opinion, how important do you think gaster will be in the plot line of deltarune? :)

OH BOY AN EXCUSE TO INFODUMP!!!

short answer: VERY.

long answer: VERY,

VERY.

i mean... gaster is the first character that appears in the game—as in, he appears seconds after you boot it up. after asking if he's "CONNECTED" he guides you along the whole gonermaker segment; not only does he serve as the introduction to deltarune, he's literally the person who announced the game itself! that seems... kinda important.

of course there's also the easter egg with smile.ogg playing while trying to use the phone in the dark world, and the weird door that plays smile.ogg slowed down by 666%... gaster is the one who asks if you want to try again when you get a game over, and he narrates the main menu before you beat the game...

there's also the fact that, like, the entire dark world itself seems to be in direct reference to gaster??

gaster had 11 lines in all of undertale, and 4/11 of those were him rambling insanely about 'darkness'. darkness as a concept is at least somewhat important to this guy, and themes of parallels between light/darkness are... pretty prominent in deltarune, to say the least. i can't go into this any further without just reciting the entirety of the plot.

OH! AND! don't forget (haha) deltarune's ending theme.

i'll set aside lyrical analysis of this song for now (just trust me it's also extremely related to gaster), and instead take the time to remind you not to forget about that funny little note in sans's garage:

it's never stated directly, but it's heavily implied that gaster was "forgotten" about. between goner kid's weird spiel about non-existence and the fact that gaster barely seems to exist at all to anyone but his followers, it's safe to assume that gaster being shattered across time and space effectively erased him from reality, thus causing him to be 'forgotten'.

don't forget is the main leitmotif throughout deltarune, appearing in 9 different songs in the ost. if it is related to gaster like i assume it is, that's another point for gaster being extremely important lol.

BUT! his influence in the game goes even deeper than that, believe it or not!! this is a bit hard to explain so bear with me, but gaster is directly present throughout the inner workings of the game. i'll be quoting some stuff from tcrf.net because it explains this better way than i can lol.

The window captions used throughout the game use upper and title case variously, to denote context; the 'light world' sections use title case (eg. "The Beginning", "The Return") and the 'dark world' sections, along with everything else, use upper-case (eg. "THE DARK", "CONTACT", "DELTARUNE").

Internally, most of the game's assets are named using a similar though distinct convention of upper/lower case. Unlike the window captions, the "Dark World" assets, like the "Light World" assets, use lower case, abbreviated prefixes (in Undertale, these were the only prefixes used). Allcaps prefixes/names are only used in the following contexts:

• CONTACT and everything associated with it • The logo screen and main menu (both versions of it) • The game over ("FAILURE") screen • The dogcheck room • UNUSED

These are effectively all of the "out-of-bounds" sections of the game, as it were, with the exception of the ending credits.

okay so... we already know that gaster directly appears in the CONTACT sequence, the main menu, and the game over screen. as for the dogcheck room and 'UNUSED'—both of those can only be accessed through hacking/datamining, and gaster's connection to unused/datamined content in general makes this VERY relevant to him.

anyway, here's a table of these prefixes:

Variable names within allcaps objects also follow this convention, mostly being in allcaps as well, in addition to sometimes utilizing slightly more verbose terminology. One notable counterpart for a common local variable is EVENT, used in place of con (condition).

someone that speaks in all caps and often uses stilted, somewhat verbose vocabulary... sounds familiar, right?

HE CALLS DOGCHECK "SONG_THAT_EMERGES_FROM_A_SLEEPING_DOG". this is not relevant to the point i'm trying to make at all but i need as many people to know this fact as possible.

that's not the only place gaster is hiding, though! there's also some weird, unused rhyming text that seems to describe the mystery man sprite!! basically, gaster's presence is weaved throughout the game and he undoubtedly plays a major role in deltarune—inside and out.

let me loop back to the start of all this. it's pretty widely agreed upon that gaster is/was in cahoots with chara, and their partnership led to the creation of deltarune's world; we're obviously missing a lot of information about this since we've only played the first chapter, but this seems to be what's going on.

chara speaks repeatedly about the creation/destruction of different worlds at the end of no mercy, and deltarune is pretty clearly a separate world based on undertale's world. at the moment, it's anyone's guess what exactly they're trying to accomplish together—chara is also implied to be the person who 'discards' your vessel, so their motives probably don't align in some way. the point is, the world in deltarune was created.

considering all of this... i'm pretty confident that the "SURVEY_PROGRAM" we played is gaster's 'experiment'. as in, literally all of deltarune seems to be at least partially his doing.

... I THINK THAT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT!

#SURVEY PROGRAM #ANALYSIS #long post #this isn't under a read more because i'm a cruel individual.#this post is kinda just completely disjointed rambling. sorry. let me have this okay </3 #it got too long so i didn't include this part but:#deltarune itself being 'created' directly parallels the existence of the dark world #and that makes me crazy.#if anyone's interested i might write up a post about that too but fair warning: i will be deranged about it. even more so.#just... deltarune. AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.#i can't think about this game for more than 2 seconds. lest i have an utter meltdown

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undertale-encyclopedia · 3 years

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I am starting to think that the “Mystery Man” and “Him” are not the same entity, or there is some degree of separation between the two.

“Mystery Man” being the guy you see behind the grey door in Undertale. The man that you picture when you hear the name W. D. Gaster. “Him” is… I think what you’d call the Deltarune version of Gaster. The one who you talk to at the beginning of the game. The person causing insanity in a couple darkners. There’s also this third entity who is just.. a man. You find the man. He gives you an egg. He's both in the dark and light world. And this third thing is what has me confused.

In the files of Undertale, all the files related to Gaster are named normally. “spr_mysteryman.png” “mus_st_him.ogg” “smile.ogg” all lower case. Gaster is presumed to only talk in all caps, in wingdings and in the beginning of Deltarune. In the files of Deltarune however, files (mostly music) presumably related to Gaster are in all caps, “ANOTHER HIM” “THE HOLY” “DARKNESS” “THE WORLD REVOLVING” “KEYGEN” “BIG SHOT”. Even the sequence at the beginning of the game is named “DEVICE_GONERMAKER”.

So in Undertale, there is no distinction between Gaster content, except for his speech in Entry Number 17 which is in all upper case. In Deltarune, Gaster content has the distinction of being named in all caps. Undertale does not seem to follow the same rules as Deltarune in that regard. Either that or…

This is where “man” comes in. The room with the person who gives you an egg, the name of the song is “man.ogg”. Not “MAN.ogg” like you would expect if this was Gaster. Now my first thought was “This doesn’t follow the naming schemes of the other Gaster related songs so this probably isn’t Gaster.” But i don’t think that’s quite right either.

When you interact with the man, he seems to vanish completely, and the egg he gives you persists across timelines if you store it. These two things are connected to the Mystery Man, he disappears when you interact with him and he is connected to the idea of multiple timelines.

So with all this information, we can end with a couple different conclusions.

a.) The Undertale game files does not follow the same logic as the Deltarune game files and the all caps in the files is purely a Deltarune thing. Undertale’s “Mystery Man” and Deltarune’s “Him” are the same entity, but Deltarune’s “Man” is something separate but eerily similar to Gaster, since his song does not follow the now established rule of capitalizing Gaster related things.

b.) What we call Gaster is multiple entities. One with the lower case, one with the upper case. All caps Gaster being the one who wrote Entry Number 17 in Undertale and the one behind all the seemingly dubious dark world events in Deltarune, and no caps Gaster who sits in a grey room and has a theme song in Undertale and gives you an egg in Deltarune.

c.) A combination of the two. The Undertale files do not follow the logic of Deltarune’s, but there are still different entities that are Gaster. The “Man” and “Him” are different things, but Undertale’s files shouldn’t and cannot be used as evidence for pointing one or the other out.

d.) The capitalization of file names doesn’t necessarily denote a relationship to Gaster, but instead signify something else.

e.) Everything is Gaster capitalization doesn’t matter it has never mattered you’ve spent almost 2 hours writing this it isnt worth it he is just some dude in a video game it isnt that serious.

I personally think either b or d are the most likely ones, there are a couple files i didn’t mention that seemingly breaks the rules(?) of the all caps theory (“A CYBER’S WORLD?”). Also to clarify, when i say “different entities” i don’t necessarily mean “two different people”. It could be the same person just with… different personalities or… different intentions.

#pls let me know your opinions!#ramblings #theory #deltarune #gaster #long post #undertale

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springbloggy · 7 months

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Ms. Zarves theory part 3

I honestly didn't expect my brain to latch onto this idea as much as it did honestly...maybe one day I will do a masterpost of some sort. But for now...this weird part formatting is what you get.

In part 1, I laid down my foundations for Deltarune's connection to the Wayside series and trying to predict Gaster through the character of Ms. Zarves. Part 2 predicted the ending and true message of the game through Undertale and some Ms. Zarves stuff. This part was something I brought up in part 1. At first, I didn't fully believe it. In fact, I believed so little in the idea, I almost forgot to mention it at all. But then I thought, and thought about it and the idea made so much sense to me.

Mean Ms. Jewls

Ms. Jewls is the main teacher the Wayside series follows, she is known to be extraordinarily nice to her students and fellow teachers. However, there is one chapter of the Wayside books where this is subverted, this is a chapter simply called "the Mean Ms. Jewls".

Everybody in Mrs. Jewls’s class thought she was a very nice teacher. They were wrong. There is no such thing as a nice teacher. If you think you have a nice teacher, then you are wrong too. Inside every nice teacher there is a mean and rotten teacher bursting to get out. The nicer the teacher is on the outside, the meaner the teacher inside is. As Mrs. Jewls was changing the bulletin board before class, a mean and rotten voice whispered inside her brain. “Give the children lots of busy work today,” it said. “And then make them do it over again if their handwriting isn’t perfect.” Mrs. Jewls tried very hard to ignore the voice. She didn’t like giving busy work. Instead she tried to teach the children three new things every day. She believed that if they learned three new things every day, they would eventually learn everything there is to know.

Over the course of her lesson, Mrs. Jewls begins acting against her own class rules, telling the class to shut up while trying to teach about pickles and giving them increasingly difficult questions as well as pouring pickle juice on each kid who gives her a wrong answer.

Okay, question three.” She looked down at the vat of brine she was holding and shook her head. She thought a moment, then smiled. “What is the name of my cousin who lives in Vermont?” Leslie had no idea, so she just had to take a wild guess. She closed her eyes and said, “Fred Jewls?” “Wrong!” exclaimed Mrs. Jewls. She raised the vat of brine high above Leslie’s head and started to tip it over.

It isn't until one kid pours the same pickle juice she had been using that ends up snapping her out of her mean state and she sends herself home.

Why this chapter is important in the context of Deltarune

At first, I just jotted this chapter down coming up with ideas for the Zarves theory, thinking nothing of it. After all, this is a really short chapter and doesn't even mention Zarves at all.

But then something clicked for me. Mrs. Jewls is the only teacher in the Wayside series to acknowledge Ms. Zarves as a teacher and potential friend. In the first book, she is the one to instruct a student to give Ms. Zarves an invite to lunch. All the other teachers don't even notice her. The only other teacher that is implied to maybe know Ms. Zarves is Louis, who is implied to be writing the book series in universe, but even then he ignores her existence until being forced to.

Miss Zarves taught the class on the nineteenth story. There is no nineteenth story. And there is no Miss Zarves. You already know all that. But how do you explain the cow in her classroom?

Even the three men in black only acknowledge Ms. Zarves when she threatens to quit teaching. If character of Gaster is inspired Ms. Zarves, is it too far off to consider there's a character that is inspired by Mrs. Jewls as well? Mrs. Jewls is the main teacher of the series after all. And if there is a Mrs. Jewls equivalent, is it too far off to consider there will be a moment where they suddenly flip to being "evil"?

Candidates for the Ms. Jewls equivalent in Deltarune

1.A superboss

A superboss is one of the more obvious and easy candidates for the Ms. Jewls equivalent. Each superboss so far are heavily implied to be controlled by something and have been contacted by Gaster before the characters properly meet them. It would make sense to have a "surprise" superboss that breaks the norm by being setup as a nice and sweet helper to the party, then similar to Ms. Jewls, a voice/controlling force compels them to fight the team. Something that breaks the norm to the formula that has been set up before.

2.Alphys

Alphys is another similar odd, but easy one. Alphys was the scientist that is lead to be the replacement to Gaster in the Undertale universe, she is aware of other universes, and basically everything else placed in stainedglassthreads Knight Alphys theory. This is an odd extension to that. Alphys is the main teacher to the Deltarune kids, much like how Ms. Jewls is the main teacher portrayed in Wayside. While not much at first glance (it's pretty sans is ness tier ), when accounting for Knight Alphys theory, the connections become..kinda terrifying. Is there a chance that if Alphys is the Knight, she like the superbosses isn't in full control of her actions once under that role? That her connections to Gaster compel her to open the Dark Fountains for one reason or another?

3.Asgore

Asgore's connections to Gaster are mentioned by his followers, the reason why it took so long for Gaster to be replaced was due to Gaster's brilliance. This shows that Asgore remembered and admired Gaster in Undertale, even if most other people didn't. In Deltarune, there's a bit of a mystery as to why Asgore isn't chief of police anymore. Is it possible that Asgore's connections to Gaster is part of why? Only reason why I am hesitant on this is that Asgore was already a semi-final boss with a bunch of build up hype in one game and it would be strange to effectively fill the same role twice.

4.Sans and/or Papyrus

There are so many theories on Sans and Papyrus' connections to Gaster and the True Lab, it is insane. To sort through all of them here would be madness. So I won't go into all that. What I will go into is the interesting fact we already kinda saw "Mean Mrs. Jewls" already with Sans in the genocide route, where he acts more seriously and fights the player. So if there is a chance of one of the two fulfilling this role in Deltarune, I feel like it is more likely to be Papyrus...who is a huge fan-favorite candidate to be the Knight.

If what I stated under Alphys Knight is true, and the knight is not fully "in control" as the Knight, then if the Knight is Papyrus it would be even more tragic.

If I am right with my strange theorizing based on a children's series than I will be a mess.

5. The Knight

This is just listed if the knight isn't a pre-existing character from Undertale, everything under Papyrus and Alphys is still valid here, just more difficult to guess.

#undertale #deltarune #deltarune theory #undertale theory #wayside #deltarune knight #springy thoughts

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everysongineverykey · 2 years

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LISTEN alright shut up and listen cause i am thinking about skeletons and specifically skeletons and MUSIC and SOUND alright. in undertale and deltarune. imagine i am leaning against a cork board covered in pins and red string and papers with frazzled hair and rolled up sleeves cause there is SO MUCH here that might not mean anything but I DON'T KNOW.

okay. so. you've all seen that post, right? that one post that points out that bonetrousle is the background music of every single undertale trailer ever, and yet papyrus is the only major undertale character not to appear in deltarune yet? yeah, that's fucking weird! but listen close! isn't it ALSO weird that papyrus only has two themes and they're basically the exact same thing as each other? like so similar especially to begin with? and sans has four different themes! twice that! and sure they're mostly all the same melody but they're all audibly distinct from each other! and then he has one theme, megalovania, that has no trace of any leitmotif in it! i KNOW megalovania was originally written for homestuck or toby's earthbound hack or whatever but isn't it weird that it wasn't even modified at all to include even one familiar tune in it? maybe it's to symbolize that this sans you're fighting is no longer himself, because fighting is not something he would do naturally, he's only doing it now after the world has fallen apart! i dunno! it's weird!

and THEN you have the fact that sans' theme is the only undertale song that's also on the deltarune soundtrack. AND the fact that song that might play when you fight sans is the only song that's on the ut ost, but never actually plays in the game! like did we ever figure out what that song's whole deal was?? i don't think so!!

there are so many dots i am force-connecting here. the way that gaster is most often associated with sound and music and audio. mus.smile. garbage noise on the phone. his natural speech is not in normal text that can be read. the secret bosses, characters corrupted by him, are the only characters in the game with actual voice lines. and then the KICKER: the way his theme is weird like sans and papyrus' cause it's so simple, it's just a four-note arpeggio that is so often used as a bassline for so many songs such that you often cannot tell whether or not it means anything. he's everywhere. fitting for a man who was shattered across space and time!

and all this to say. the skeletons' themes are all pretty fucking weird in their own ways. one of sans' is on the ost but not in the game, papyrus has two that are basically the exact same and one is the bgm of all the ut trailers when he himself is noticeably absent from dr, gaster's theme is everywhere AND nowhere, hidden in a secret room inaccessible except through file editing. i could go on and on. sans apparently plays the trombone. papyrus hears the "strange whisper" of the echo flowers over the phone. all of gaster's musical themes- another him, darkness falls, gaster's theme, man- are on piano (kris also plays the piano). we could play the piano in undertale but not in deltarune. welcome to the sound test room! listen to all your favorite tunes. it was nothing but garbage noise. the skeletons speak in odd fonts. the roaring is the name for the apocalypse in this game. hell's roar bubbles from the depths. the knight, the roaring knight. susie does not listen. kris cannot be heard. we got an actual song with lyrics in deltarune. thinking. thinking.

#undertale #deltarune #brainworms!

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cellydawn · 3 years

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undertale meta deepdive: sans is not a good person (OR the sans theory masterpost pt. 1)

❤️ || Part 2 || Part 3

Sans is far from this valiant epitome of good that the fandom so often paints him as. He’s not a hero—hell, he might even be a bad, terrible person. At least in the past. My intention in this post isn’t to crush popular fandom interpretations of Sans in a bad faith argument, rather, it is to challenge preconceptions that have existed for years and to open up discussion on the dubious morality of this popular and loved character; I certainly love him a little more after doing this analysis.

Section I - A Bad Person (The “What”)

Sans is certainly not opposed to leaving us little breadcrumbs for us in regards to his mysterious past. We get the idea that Sans is separated from his home, likely due to something he did. Something he had thought was important. Something that led him to take his home for granted.

So based off of the previous dialogue, this “type” that he intimately knows... he’s talking about himself. He was very “determined” to do whatever he did, which cost him his home, likely nearly everything he cared about given his angst.

So let’s say Sans used to be “determined”.

Sans is also aware of the SAVE function, meta knowledge that only the player and Flowey should know about because they have or have had this ability in the past.

“Take it from me”: accept that what I say is true, because I know or have experienced it. Sans should have quit when he had the chance. Never satisfied, too determined to bow out. But is he talking about the same thing we’ve been doing?

When Sans threatens us with the infamous “bad time”, he is NOT referring to the fight... but what comes after, because only after he is struck down, he gives us one final piece of advice:

But HOW does he know that the world is going to be thrown into the “abyss”? Unless he has experienced this first-hand.

This is Papyrus confronting us in the genocide run antecedent to his fight…

…and this is him on Sans. An eerily mirrored piece of dialogue from Papyrus describing us and his brother. What do we know so far? Both Sans and the player need to be kept on “the straight and narrow”, both are “determined”, and both do irreparable damage to the world, possibly sending it to “the abyss”.

Purgatory: a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven. Not to mention the suspicious usage of the word “abyss” by Papyrus.

From the evidence gathered, it seems that the reason why Sans isn’t able to return to his world is because he destroyed it in the same manner we destroyed Undertale in the genocide run. Why else would he say “take it from me”; he empirically knows what happens when the world is pushed to its very limits.

But which world could he have destroyed? What world did Sans come from?

(Continues under the cut because this gets really long.)

Section II - The Deltarune Connection (The “Where”)

If you’ve read some Deltarune theory posts, you know that Gaster is prominently featured in Deltarune. He addresses us at the beginning of the game and there are blatant references to him (the phone call in the Dark World, the strange bunker, etc). I’m going to try to prove that Sans will also play a large role in its story. Let’s take a look at the lyrics of the end credits, Don’t Forget.

When the light is running low And the shadows start to grow And the places that you know Seem like fantasy There's a light inside your soul That's still shining in the cold With the truth The promise in our hearts Don't forget I'm with you in the dark

The truth: Sans says this to us before giving us access to his room, the entrance to which is suspiciously identical to the fast-travel doors that Darkners use. We also get access to his basement.

Promise: Sans has a history of promises. He is regretful of a promise he made in the past.

Don’t forget: Appears on a poorly drawn picture of three smiling people, in Sans’s basement. This phrase is also used in a description for "Memory” in the sheet music booklet from the Collector’s Edition. What do you know, it’s written in Comic Sans too. Go figure.

Now, let me introduce a character that is featured prominently in Deltarune, someone that is somehow related to Sans, someone who isn’t Gaster.

Ice-E is everywhere in Deltarune’s Hometown, but the only inkling we get of his existence is from Sans. The Ice-E word search that Sans gives us is interesting because the title itself is written in comic sans.

In one of the hospital rooms, there’s a “1-to-10 pain scale using Ice-E as a model”. It’s an uncanny description of Sans.

Ice-E is also characterized for its missuses of apostrophes. One might call it an “apostrophe-dog”.

Moving on.

Section III - Gaster (The “Who”)

Oh boy, this section is going to be absolutely massive. I’ll try my best to make the logical flow easy to understand. So we know that Sans did (will do) some pretty shady things in the world of Deltarune. To understand why, we have to examine how exactly Sans and Gaster are related. Let’s start with Ice-E since we know that he’s somehow associated with Sans.

The “Nightmare” variant of the Ice-E word search appears in fun values between 56 and 57. There is only one other snowman that appears in Undertale.

We are asked to take “a piece” of it. Let’s investigate where else this specific phrase is used. Following this trail of breadcrumbs reveals other phrases that Sans and Gaster-related things share.

Exhibit A: Gaster follower #2, “time and space”

The prophecy has something to do with Sans and Gaster. I’ll let the evidence speak for itself.

Exhibit B: Memoryheads, “be seeing you”

Memoryheads are the first amalgamate we encounter in the True Lab. Before their spare conditions are met, they are known as " " (six blank spaces). Gaster is frequently associated with the number six.

If we attack the Memoryheads, these statements flash by quickly in red text:

FAILURE

But it didn't work.

nope

Absorbed

Don't worry about it.

I'm lovin' it.

Occurs when the player tries to name themselves Sans.

We see the phrase “be seeing you” in only these instances. Below is the Sound Test Room that has a chance to appear if the fun value is set to 65. This is the only place that “Gaster’s theme” can be accessed in-game.

Exhibit C: The dump

“The abyss” makes an appearance again. It’s something to pay close attention to--it’s always somehow related to Gaster. So what does a piece of trash falling into the abyss mean? Well, we know that Gaster “fell” into his creation...

We know that Flowey refers to Sans as “Smiley Trashbag”. Papyrus states that Sans frequents Grillby’s, a “purgatory” and “hamburger abyss”.

(note: Papyrus is referring to a literal trash can here, but the implication that Sans is “trash-like” is here)

If it’s not clear what I’m getting to, then let me spell it out: Sans is a piece of Gaster, they are one and the same. Sans/Gaster took his “experiment” with Deltarune too far, possibly destroying the world and displacing him in Undertale.

I’ll continue this in another post because it seems that tumblr is breaking.

❤️ || Part 2 || Part 3

#undertale #deltarune #undertale theory #deltarune theory #sans #gaster #cellytheory

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