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justmenoworries · 3 months

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some unorganized thoughts about Vox and Valentino Hazbin Hotel

Spoilers For Hazbin Hotel episode 2

TW: Discussions and depictions of abusive relationships, sexual assault, extortion and financial abuse

So going by the promo material shown to us, a lot of fans seem to think that Vivzie has changed course on VoxVal and that it's going to be a much more healthy relationship than previously implied.

Not gonna lie, that disappoints me.

Because depicting an abusive romantic relationship with an imperfect and unexpected victim would have been extremely interesting. We already know Valentino is a piece of shit who doesn't care about anything but himself and profit.

The "Addict" music video and the prequel comic "Dirty Healings" make that very clear.

Valentino regularly assaults Angel, keeps Angel's earnings for himself and tries to keep Angel in the studio as long as possible, even getting angry when Angel goes out by himself. Even if it's to get money for Val.

And for all of his faults, it's very easy for the viewer to feel sympathy for Angel. Angel is a likable character who's been shown to have a much kinder side to him via his friendship with Cherry and him trying to comfort Charlie in the pilot after her pitch for the Happy Hotel flops.

Vox though?

Vox is slated to be a main antagonist. He's a fellow Overlord of Hell. Someone for whom it'd be much harder to believe that he'd let anyone treat him like Valentino treats Angel.

And yet...

To be fair, this artwork is from the in-character Instagram accounts, which were already confirmed as non-canonical. (The accounts themselves are sadly archived now due to some really messed up stuff that happened with the Octavia and Stolas accounts.)

Still, depicting Vox as one of Valentino's victims would have been pretty intriguing. It shows that this kind of thing can happen to anyone, no matter the gender or financial or social situation. It would also acknowledge that just because someone is a victim of abuse doesn't mean they're pure, innocent or weak. And that no matter the circumstances, no one deserves to be treated like Valentino treats Vox and Angel.

I'm honestly hoping that this aspect of the VoxVal relationship isn't entirely gone and I kinda think it isn't.

In episode 2 we see right off the bat that Vox doesn't really like Valentino. And it's easy to see why.

Valentino is a spoiled angry manchild with no self control. He needs Velvette and Vox to reign him in, otherwise he's going to do stupid shit like waltz up to the princess of Hell's doorstep with a gun in hand. Because he can't handle the idea that one of his employees is living somewhere he didn't approve.

If Vox hadn't stopped him and talked him out of it, Val would have gotten the VVVs into some serious shit. His violent streaks can also not be talked down completely, they need to be satisfied somehow. Vox needs to offer Val the lowest earners to shoot at and work out his aggression on or Val's going to continue to go on a rampage and most likely tear apart more of Velvette's models.

Speaking frankly, Valentino seems way more trouble than he's worth. Vox and Velvette appear to be doing all the work in their shared empire while Val just throws tantrums and forces them to go out of their way to calm him down.

So if that's the case, why do the other Vs puts up with Val?

In Alastor's and Vox' duet in episode 2, Alastor has this very interesting thing to say about Vox and his relationship to Valentino and Velvette:

"Is Vox as strong as he purports? Or is it based on his support? He'd be powerless without the other Vs."

What's also interesting is Val's and Velvette's reaction to it.

They're smiling. Like they agree.

Alastor also reveals that Vox was trying to get Alastor to join the Vs. Alastor declined.

Vox of course tries to deny all of that, but in the process gets so worked up he short-circuits himself and causes a city-wide blackout.

If Alastor is telling the truth here (and we don't really have a reason to believe he isn't), that puts everything in a whole new light.

Vox is he brains of the operation but is he also the only thing that's keeping it together? Val and Velvette don't really get along (Velvette insults Val behind his back, Val rips apart her models when he's angry) and both don't seem to respect Vox that much. Velvette lets him deal with Val's bad moods, Val doesn't hesitate to throw stuff at Vox when he's pissed (the fact that Vox nonchalantly dodges the glass Valentino throws at him implies this is not the first time). They both have a look of disdain on their faces when Vox hugs them during "Status Quo".

So why does Vox go to all this trouble to keep these two assholes in line if he doesn't really care for them and they in turn have no love for him?

Maybe for business reasons, but Vox already has a giant multi-media empire, right? So again, what does he need the other Vs for?

I think it has to do with Vox's need to be admired and liked and at the top.

See, another thing this episode tells us about Vox is that he's deeply, deeply, insecure.

He has a dozen different programs where he changes his outfits, approach and demeanor to cater to every single sinner possible, he throws out new business ideas on the fly so he'll always be the newest trend everyone follows. If something (or someone) comes up that cracks his cool confident businessman facade even a little he can't handle it and literally breaks down.

Really, Alastor puts it best:

"Is Vox insecure? Pursuing allure? Between this fad and that, is nothing working? Every day he's got a new format."

So Vox doesn't just want to be powerful and popular, he wants to be the most powerful and the most popular and his shows alone aren't going to cut it for that.

That's why he needs Velvette and Valentino. They provide the content that draws the viewers Vox so desperately craves. Without them he'd be all on his own, might lose large chunks of his viewership. And that's something I think Vox is deeply afraid of.

So no matter how little he might actually like them, regardless how shitty Valentino treats him, Vox needs these two. In his view at least, he can't afford to lose them.

#hazbin hotel #voxval #staticmoth #hazbin vox #hazbin valentino #tw rape mention #tw abuse #tw rape #hazbin hotel theory

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inlocusmads · 10 months

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So fricking sick of acephobia in the year 2023. I'm not even on Twitter but to read all of that shit, I'm convinced this Twitter mob will only expand and I fucking hate it so much.

Are we still negating aspec people's struggles? That corrective rape and forceful marriage doesn't exist? That asexuality is still treated as a fucking mental health issue? That NOBODY EVER TALKS ENOUGH ABOUT IT? That we're already excluded from a number of queer spaces because "lacking sexuality doesn't count" DESPITE HAVING A HISTORY OF THE DEFINITION DATING BACK TO THE 1800s?

That the law in several places go "marriage and sexual intimacy go hand in hand" that completely excludes ace people who'd like to marry, have QPRs or have a cohabitation partnership with someone?? That they're excluded from so many marriage related benefits?? Healthcare?? This inherent prejudice in the medical system??

And even if you do want to be alone and be awesome all on your own, you're shamed and shunned for it?? You're called harmful languages? Slurs? Like where does it stop?

Ace people, I love you guys and I hope you get a truckload of cake, garlic bread or whatever food, drink, book, thing that you prefer. Seriously. They should pay us for dealing with this shit EVERY FUCKING DAY.

#so fucking tired #tw rape mention #asexual #asexuality #aspecs yall are FUCKING AWESOME OKAY SERIOUSLY GO GET YOURSELF SOMETHING AWESOME OR BULLY SOMEONE TO DO THAT FOR YOU jk jk but you get it

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resisteverything · 3 months

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I hate how un-nuanced hazbin sees abuse as. Like stolas coercing blitz into sex by taking advantage of his lower racial status putting his business in danger is fine, actual abuse is valentino rapes and slaps angel while holding him on a leash, and slaps him around in front of other people.

Similarly, when dealing with the knowledge that your friend is abused, there is literally no point in-between “grinding the abuser into a paste resembling orange pulp” and “doing literally fucking nothing and apologizing for having ever tried to do anything”.

And why did they have that scene of her apologizing like this was a children’s show and she had thrown him a party he didn’t want. I just want to play that scene out of context to a stranger and reveal to them “no she’s actually apologizing because she walked in on him filming a gay porno and it caused his pimp, who forced him into porn using magic so he can’t quit, to smack him about it, and she’s sorry she showed up or tried to intervene when she saw him being beaten. This is not an edgy parody, those were serious plot points we’re supposed to care about and these are things she fully understands, even though this is how she reacts.” like fucking hell this show is a mess.

#anti hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique #tw rape mention #tw sa

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dreikit-23 · 9 months

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There is a Rampant and Vicious Cycle in the Online Left That Needs to Be Addressed

Every leftist needs to understand that not every proclaimed leftist is a safe person or one that is acting in good faith. Many people in this sphere --even if they are minorities themselves-- are Abusers. Let me be clear: they are Abusers REGARDLESS of --NOT because of-- them being a minority. Despite this, many of them have weaponized their standing as a minority in order to get away with their behavior and achieve what they see as some form of power and control over others. Let me be clear. I am referring to those that:

Manipulate and lie about pressing situations (especially when it's to harm another person or demographic)

Excessively use idpol to either elevate themselves to holier than thou levels ("listen to ___ people but only when it's something I agree with, which just so happens to devolve from constructive change to making others grovel and plead forgiveness endlessly before me") or belittle others (ie their skin color, gender, queerness, disability, neurodivergence, religion, age, etc.) in order to discount their point or not treat them as equal human beings; yes, even if their skin tone is white or if they are men, abuse does not have to be backed up by systemic issues in order to be abusive or at the very least harmful (sidenote: this does not apply to people talking about their experiences as a minority that is otherwise not experienced or understood by others, the issue I'm pointing out is when it's twisted to cover everything not directly tied to their identity and proclaim themselves as the only ones allowed to be the voice of reason, therefore shutting up everyone else and to avoid any constructive criticism or discussion)

Act on rage and at times even trauma to bring forth harmful ideals (ex: truly hating every person of a demographic, wishing for a genocide, making actual death or rape threats towards someone or a group, conversion, etc)(sidenote: I'm not discounting those that have trauma and even have harmful thoughts, just please seek help and understand that it is not healthy nor sustainable to paint or alter reality to be in line with what trauma makes you believe)

Actively try to get others they don't agree with to either permanently leave the internet or commit suicide and even celebrate when either happens

Excessively test others on their "purity" on unachievable standards to the detriment of everyone and Leftism as a whole (purity culture is fueled by christian culture in order to disguise doomerism, accepting defeat when change is not possible, of which is the very thing that will kill leftism)

Infight over weird made up issues (remember how divide and conquer is a war strategy? To split hairs and discount others for non-issues is to do the work of conservatives and nazis for them)

Shut down people or discussions over minor slights such as using an incorrect word/phrasing or any numerous perceived mistakes (example I've seen here: berating a person with schizophrenia (or a trans person or any other minority) for using a derogatory term for themselves when they're talking about how everyone else is speaking over them and not listening), ignoring the hypocrisy or not taking into account any number of mundane causes such as non-native english speakers, generational gaps, being in the process of learning (either recovering from harmful beliefs or simple ignorance), using those terms to prove a point (such as that example I mentioned above), neurodivergence, etc.

Not letting others talk about their experiences of oppression when those experiences don't match theirs, instead opting to call those people bigoted for contrived reasons

A rejection of nuance, intersectionalism, and even reality to better suit their goals (ex: claiming that every trans man benefits from the patriarchy and can never experience misogyny)

Misuse of therapy speak and terminology in order to water down those terms and render them near meaningless so they can weaponize them under the pretense of their original use (ex: gaslighting), or to cut off any need to connect or sympathize with other human beings and instead speak to them like a PR message (refer to this video by Zena and Poppy for reference)

They never speak on true leftist/progressive ideals or positive change, they only engage in destructive discourse or any behavior listed above

Making baseless dangerous accusations towards someone they don't like. Before you go harr harr you're doing that, I'm not calling out any specific person and am merely listing dangerous behaviors I've seen people here act out. What I am referring to are when someone casually calls someone specific a predator (or whatever else) with absolutely zero proof and expecting everyone to believe them no questions asked. This has been shown to ruin people's lives

Any other similar behaviors not included in this list (as well as classic logical fallacies), but what I've mentioned above should paint you a good picture

Every example I've pointed out were REAL EVENTS I've seen from people that proclaim themselves as leftists or even just progressive, and sometimes are even minorities themselves (some even infight against their own communities using the behaviors listed above, often out of internalized bigotry)(an example of a real event that happened here recently were when several people were making rape threats towards a trans man by the username of @a-faggot-with-opinions). To be blunt, I'm pointing out exclusionism in practically every form, asexual discourse, transandrophobia, TERFs/radfems, TEHMs, tankies, "cornbreadtube", nationalists and ethnonationalists, and all else I don't have the terminology for For many of the people that fall under that bullet list I would hesitate to even refer to them as leftist or progressive, as they never seem to actually show they act on it or even believe in it, only making an appearance in those communities for their own destructive personal gain; hell, often times they have ideals that directly go against what those communities stand for! Examples include TERFs with white supremacist beliefs, transandrophobes that are misogynistic, ethnonationalists that are antisemitic, puritans that are ableist, the list goes on forever. Once you know what to look for, you can see the hidden or overt bigotry behind their false "progressive" statements

No one is infallible No one is better than everyone else You are not immune to propaganda No one is immune from behaving abusively

These people are dangerous, whether they actually qualify as abusers --as I've been referring to them as such for brevity and impact-- or are people that are engaging in hurtful or fully abusive behavior (use this paragraph as a disclaimer, I of course can't know if someone is an abuser in real life unless there is documented evidence of such). Regardless, they are hurting the left and are letting the right win

If you see any of these behaviors either 1) take caution if you're unsure, 2) block them, or 3) if you have the fortitude, call them out. Either way, use your best judgement and think for yourself (or discuss with good faith leftists if you're uncertain). And remember, often times (albeit not always) they are actually fully aware of their disgusting behavior and are choosing to act maliciously, not ignorantly.

Stay safe, log off, do what you can to support your local community and leftism as a whole, don't let these people distract from the real issues at hand. Have empathy, if you don't have empathy then act in compassion, if you don't or refuse to do either please do not engage in politics. Misanthropy has no place in matters concerning humanity.

And remember: we have to stand together in unity so we can create a better future for all

#politics #leftism #online left #discourse #tw abuse #tw rape mention #tw genocide mention #tw bigotry #racism #transphobia #transandrophobia #purity culture #vent #this goes for several issues I haven't mentioned whether due to a lack of proper wordage or expertise due to not being part of those groups #I'm a non-native english speaker who is autistic be aware of that if I do misphrase something #Poppy and Zena: Wholesome Degenerates is an excellent youtube channel please check them out #if anyone argues here in bad faith feel free to use this post as a free block list #had so much to say but now I can get back to shitposting les go

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cupcakeslushie · 4 days

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I sincerely see little issue on you coping like that, as long as its not, you know, graphic

Would i be uncomfortable? Very. Im still not quite over my own experience

But I'd be lying if i said i hadnt thought of putting some characters i relate to in such things and having they deal with it and feel like i did (as much as they can in the circumstances)

Yeah as long as this stuff isnt fetishized im on full support of it

Okay I feel like I’m stuck in a loop where the target is still being just slightly missed. I appreciate your intentions with this ask, and I can see where you were going. But “as long as it’s not graphic” and “as long as it’s not fetishized” are still putting qualifiers on art.

Art has no bounds. As long as triggers are tagged properly, and put behind a “read more” for the visually graphic images, any art can be created. When we start requiring stipulations for artists to meet before making art, we start the process of sanitizing it. If you read the warnings and still click on the post, then your discomfort is on you. If you aren’t mature enough to know your own limits in what you can handle, the artist shouldn’t have to issue a statement decrying their art, and listing all their traumas for some kind of purity tribunal to then decide it’s okay, and only when it’s being used as a coping mechanism.

It’s kinda funny, after all this, I likely wasn’t even going to actually DRAW anything sexually graphic, and at most, simply hint at it. But it doesn’t matter. If I wanted to, I should be able to, as long as it’s given all the warnings required. If I don’t like certain triggers, I avoid them. I’m not delusional enough to think that in all the whole, wide expanse of the internet, people will pander to my specific icks, likes and dislikes. I curate my own internet experience.

I can only hope, as I go about my day, that I am given the same courtesy of being warned ahead of time in the summary and tags, that I’m giving. But if another artist does want to draw that, I’m not going to request to see their trauma resume, just so I can approve of what they made. If I clicked, after reading the warnings and knowing damn well I would be triggered, I’m not going to be mad at the artist. That’s on me.

#ask slushie #kendratello au #tw rape mention #tw sa mention #tw discussions of rape

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