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faislittlewhiteraven · 4 months

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Undertale Yellow: An amazing fangame with one glaring thing I hate about it (that I need to rant about or else I'm going to go insane).

As the title says, Undertale Yellow was a game I really enjoyed playing. Lots of fun dialogue and designs, utterly fantastic art and animation (holy hell that Flowey fight! <3 <3 <3), great music and feels, etc. Seriously it deserves a ton of praise, not only as a fully completed fangame that took years of development, but as genuinely amazing prequel to one of my favorite games of all time.

...Unfortunately. Much as I truly enjoyed playing through the majority of the game, when I finished the True Pacifist route I was intensely unhappy with how that went and while the credits scenes and funeral for Cover helped ease some of the worst of it, I cannot help but wonder who the flipping f$%& in the development team thought presenting Clover's suicide as the 'just and happy' ending that all the friend characters accept with barely any argument was a good idea?!

Now to clarify: I went into Undertale Yellow knowing that Clover was going to die and that there were good odds their death was going to be self sacrificial or involve suicide. Undertale Yellow is a prequel to Undertale after all and children being murdered and/or sacrificing themselves for the greater good of lovable monster kind is an established part of the setting.

I came in knowing this game was bound to end tragically. I was excited to see how this game would pull that inevitable tragedy off while exploring the Yellow soul's theme of Justice and staying true to Undertale's established canon.

And all the way right up to the end of the True Pacifist ending I truly thought they'd nailed it: The constant pressure of the monsters suffering and being trapped in the Underground despite their sweet and earnest natures, Dalv's clear issues regarding a human, Starlow's unintentional reinforcement of the 'one sacrifice for the greater good' idea with his trolley problem reenactment, the repeated back to back betrayals from characters who should be friends (the Feisty Five, Starlow, Ceraba) hurting Clover instead, the dull realization in universe for Clover that all their efforts to find the missing human children were all for nothing...

It was fantastic. There was a real sense of looming dread for me, seeing all those moments and just knowing in my gut that after the desperate struggle with the agonized and grieving Ceraba, ranting about how monster kind is doomed as it stands, that Clover would start thinking of sacrificing their life for monster kind, especially when their 'sense of Justice' at the start of the game had them willingly jump into a gaping pit they couldn't have possibly have known the height of, for the sake of mission they (according to Flowey) easily abandon when offered a loving home instead. (aka implying not so great things about how much they value their own life)

So. With all that 'hyped for tragedy' in mind, there I am at the True Pacifist ending. I've just spared Ceraba, the friends are all arguing as to how to keep Clover (and possibly any future humans who fall) safe and Clover begins to go into something of a zone out, thinking about all the things they've heard and seen over the course of their adventure.

This is it! I think to myself as I watch it play out. This is where Clover, after everything they've been through, makes the tragic yet understandable mistake of running away from their friends and confronting Asgore just as Flowey kept encouraging them to! Not to fight and bring Asgore to justice but to try talking him down and when they fail that, offering up their life to help and 'save' their friends even as the narrative will (matching Undertale) will make it clear that this is a mistake and only hurts everyone involved, just like every suicide and child murder in Undertale hurts everyone involved until Frisk is able to end the cycle of pain by rejecting the Kill or be Killed premise and setting the monsters free! Wow, I can't believe it, they set it up so well, what a perfect way to tie into Undertale's greater narrative via tragic prequel, I love this eeeeee!

Except of course that's not what happens.

My first hint something is off is when the quotes Clover's 'remembering' in their little bubble start being way too positive for the set up (also there's nothing from the trolley problem section). The second is when the music shifts from quiet to holy and then outright happy.

And third is when Clover snaps out of it and point blank tells their friends they choose to die. Now, I'm getting a little confused and wary at this but alright, this is a pretty long sequence already but I guess we get to have one final hope moment before Clover somehow gets away from their friends to die (maybe Flowey if not Asgore?)-

-and then I am left absolutely flabbergasted as the friends who just spent the last huge chunk of the game trying to protect Clover/getting talked out of killing them because 'its not right' end up agreeing with Clover's decision after a pitiful amount of arguing against it (where the utterly stupid 'there's no other option' reasoning is used as the primary reasoning despite all the other options being very clearly stated just moments ago), before the woman who's entire massive trauma arc that is centered around her accidentally killing her own child out of blind faith for 'the greater good', proceeds to assist Clover with their suicide (who she clearly views as a surrogate child despite her best attempts not to) while the other characters meekly say goodbye, give hugs and leave all while bittersweet but mostly sweet 'great job honey, this sucks but we're proud of you' music plays (also Flowey says stuff but like, its Flowey so frankly he could say anything and it'd be fine. He's not the issue here).

...Wow.

What a screwed up way for that to end. Like, I clearly get the 'idea' that Clover is meant to be noble and good and such but like, really? A fan game of Undertale (where one of the main ending messages was 'Don't kill and don't be killed', where a child's suicidal attempts to free monster kind lead to every major tragedy in the game, and where suicide was repeatedly shown to only make things worse through Asgore and Alphys in numerous neutral endings) is the game that decides having its protagonist's pointless self sacrifice should be honored and treated as a good ending by the narrative?????

How did none of the otherwise clearly brilliant people working on this miss the very bad, no good implications of Clover's friends being talked into letting them kill themselves and having the narrative frame it as anything but the worst end?????

I have many, many questions. And concerns. And...

Look, I do get it. Undertale Yellow is still a fangame. There are going to be weird notes in the tone due to different writers and such, and I should just be happy that the game was finished it at all, and accept that this god awful scene is probably just the result of its creators really, really wanting their beloved characters to go out as kindly (and beautifully drawn/animated) as possible with all the hugs and feels of canon Undertale without taking into account how much the very different context might warp the tone and the characterizations of everyone in the entire scene.

But like. God damn. There is something very off putting about not letting brave kind Martlet refuse to take this as an answer and then finding she actually can't stop it happening (and no her saying that after like two sentences from 'Ceraba who's judgement about the human sucks' doesn't count). About Starlow not recognising he and his posse might've had something to do with why Clover is thinking this. About Ceraba not on some level going 'IF THIS IS YOUR CHOICE THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU LET ME USE YOU TO SAVE KANAKO?!' Edit: Also a totally waste of prequel opportunity not to let Asgore visibly make the worst choices we canonly know he made on screen. Yes, he gets to stab Clover in the Flawed!Pacist route but Clover's trying to shoot him in that one; the fact we don't get to see him stab a 'far too willing to die for their friends and not defending themselves' Clover as the friend trio can do nothing to stop it from happening feels like such a cop out I swear XD

I'm all for 'Clover dies willingly' at the end of the True Pacifist but they way they did it was just... Really ugh in a way I'm finding tricky to word and I'm honestly shocked I haven't seen more people point it out (though admittedly that might be because I haven't really looked around much). ...So yeah. I know its too late to change said ending but really kinda hoping at some point one of the Undertale Yellow team realizes this might be an issue and thinks to add a content warning in the game's opening or something because it could really use one of those. Also that for any future projects they do, they happen to do a little more research into how to avoid accidentally glorify suicide as opposed to having it as a tragedy because damn they did not manage that here whatsoever.

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ANYWAY, with all that rant finally out of my head some other stuff about Undertale Yellow I be feeling strongly:

Flowey's boss battle and the lead up to it is incredible and without a doubt makes the neutral route the most amazing well crafted route in the game. 10/10 may have already mentioned this in the massive rant above but if so gonna repeat it anyway because it's just that damn good.

Genocide route being a deconstruction of the 'disproportionate revenge is justice' 90s Anti Hero is very cool theme wise but the lack of the lack of stuff like notes in shops saying 'please don't kill my family' and monsters with less screen time getting more fleshed out drags it down a little, as does Clover not actually choking on dust or getting attacked by the human souls or something at the very end. Really do love the Martlet battle flashback moments and Axel's horrifically timed confession scene though.

The general uselessness of the ACT menu in big 'endurance' fights as well as the lack of 'alternative sparing ACTS' makes fights a lot less fun than they could be and I found myself a lot less willing to use them in general as a result despite them being my favorite thing about Undertale. Did still adore what fun stuff was in them though so I think it's just a case of them being a tad too out of focus compared to the bullet hell gameplay (which I'm not that good at) for my tastes.

Pacifist route could've really used some more optional hangouts and/or letters from the main friends. As is, the peak 'hang out' part of the game for me was the nap room I spent maybe two minutes in, and Dalv especially could've benefitted a ton from a bit more presence (I got more interaction from Mo and the rabbit who's tongue was stuck to a pole and I'm not happy about that? If nothing else not getting to see the inside of Martlet's house or help Dalv build his new home feel like lost opportunities).

Personal pet peeve and nothing too serious but not a fan of Asgore not getting the kill on Clover outside of Flawed Pacifist. Makes sense on most routes (glares at T!Pacifist again) given the way the plot is set up and all but given Toby Fox has repeatedly stated Asgore killed all the humans who fell post Chara it just drives me nuts XD (As does the poor Blue Soul getting treated as a killer/evil but like, I can see where people are coming on that one and Undertale Yellow uses that to amp up Chujin's nightmare fuel vibes fantastically so I shall reluctantly congratulate that theory's use there and steel myself for the inevitable 'wait you're using Undertale Yellow lore but Axis didn't kill Integrity?' questions that will be posted on my 'will eventually be posted' Undertale fanfics XDDDD)

Love all the main cast, especially Martlet, and I am way too hyped for the day Undertale Yellow and its main cast get their own fandom tags on AO3.

...Kanako's death was incredibly stupid and avoidable but like, that's kind of what I like about it? I really also wanna know which Amalgamite she became (I'm thinking probably the one that tucks Frisk in to sleep and pats them on the head because of her and Ceraba's little 'going to sleep' game but like, I could see a very heart wrenching case for her being part of So Cold as well).

Anyone reading this who somehow hasn't played Undertale Yellow should really stop reading this and go play the game. It's free, its (one major thematic issue I have moral objections to aside) pretty decently written, and hey, more Undertale stuff to have fun making fanworks with <3

Goddamn has Undertale Yellow kicked my drive to write Undertale fanfic into overload XD Thank you Undertale Yellow team for helping me get all fired up again and sorry about all the grr but dang it, it needed to be said and now that it's out of my system I can throw myself into finding ways to incorporate your settings and characters into fanworks of my own (admittedly the AU elements might make things kinda tricky -Asgore having to kill EVERY human child even more so- but that nifty little detail of early Royal Guard Martlet having and being willing to abuse her access to the Hotland Lab allows me so many ways to have Chujin be a well meaning awful person and I am living for it!) <3 <3 <3

#Undertale Yellow #undertale #fangame #undertale spoilers #undertale yellow spoilers #tw discussion of suicide and suicide related themes #game rants #constructive criticism (well hopefully anyway)#Fais rambles #I have been hesitating over the post now button for twenty minutes now and I really should not be this nervous. I'm not even rude dang it #oh wait I forgot swearing is rude in some places #cw swearing #ut yellow #uty #uty spoilers

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reddstardust · 11 months

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I'm sorry but I can't take Yellow seriously. To me he's like an angsty emo teenager. Like. You're so angry and for what? Literally me when I was 14. You think you are so dark and mysterious? Like yeah sure. Shut the fuck up lmaooo

#to be clear #i don't hate him #i just like making fun of him #malevolent #malevolent podcast #yellow malevolent #redd rants #🌠

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profounddefendorcrusade-blog · 1 month

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I feel bad for Starlo. (pt. 2)

Had they just let him get Clover the badge (and literally finish the best day of his life since, again, Clover's gotta go) and then all sat down to chat, everything would have been solved in minutes. Because clearly Starlo's main motivation is making sure other people are happy, right? If they tell him they're not happy, he'd sure as heck care about that. Just look at how he tells the group to have fun with Clover:

btw, this is a human they SHOULD be excited to talk to more since well... they're a human. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity, and they are SUPPOSED to be into the western culture almost as much as Star, or at least that's what Star thought. More on this later

But no, gotta act jealous instead, call Starlo's training lackluster...

Then you make a better one, Ed, instead of complaining, Star's mind was too occupied with everything, as it always is. The town needs to be led by someone every day after all. It's all harder than it looks, you've gotta focus on schedules, new ideas, and most importantly radiating positive energy even in the worst of times

...say he's been throwing them around for human business...

huh Moray?? He didn't force you to do anything, you all just went with it. If you hated the training, y'all never said it. Ed also says how he basically doesn't want to participate in the trolley problem which I found sorta.. weird. I mean, it's not very likely that in all the years they've spent roleplaying here, they've never done this before. And even if they hadn't, it really is logical to assume Ed didn't really mean he was terrified and was just acting to make the scene more "dramatic" The five of them ARE sort of actors anyway (why would he be scared tho? it's not a real train that's coming, no real danger here, just harmless fun)

... and apparently call him a meanie and a big-headed sheriff:

HOW is he a meanie Mooch?? How??? He was just trying to be helpful and got too into everything. It's not the same as being mean on purpose. And even if he DID act prouder than usual, he honestly had every right to do it. After everything he's tried to do for the underground, his friends and family, he had every right to lift himself up. All you guys ever did was tag along with him everywhere apparently, never having to worry about anything but your own hobbies, had a secure AND fun job thanks to your boss, a place to live, nap times, PLUS Star was always a nice leader (Ed himself admits this; from my previous blog). How do I know he was nice? Aside from signs in the game, the gang only argued over trivial matters (IDK what exactly but Dina said this)

And Ace... wdym you're following them??

Why??? Star literally praised you and thanked you! What the heck?? Yeah life dealth him a bad hand but you're not doing anything about this situation aside from leaving.

I love all four of them, but honestly, It's not like Star ditched any of you, he didn't ever act angry (besides when Ed insulted his mission, which IS frustrating because: 1) he tried his best to make it enjoyable for everyone 2) this comment Ed made contradicts everything Starlo wanted to feel that day: genuinely proud, happy, useful, important. He wanted to enjoy himself as much as possible and bring as much joy to others as he could. And he was right to want that... especially after all he's already done. Or tried to do. Even though he's too fiery, too passionate, *too much,* why didn't anyone let him know this? Why didn't they tell him he's NOT been making anyone happy, aside from the tourists? Why keep lying to him until his breaking point?

Better explained down here during a discussion in the messages here on tumblr in case ya'll have the patience to read it ↓

Just... After thinking things through, I've started seeing things from a different pov. Yeah, the Four apologise to Clover in neutral, but Starlo STILL has to be the one to come to THEM for forgiveness. Forgiveness for what exactly? What did he do that was worse than what YOU guys did to HIM? (you too Ceroba, especially you, and I'll talk about this VERY soon, in a few days)

Forgetting to tie them off the rails (Ceroba forgot too) because he was too excited to well... feel like a somebody for the first time, like a real sheriff with a real deputy? Putting his needs and feelings first for once instead of walking outside his house at night and whispering to himself and thinking about every single problem he has on his plate? (I think it isn't the sheriff stuff he thinks about) Thinking he was doing the right thing by doing what he thought would be fun for everyone? Being kind to Clover? Not ditching his posse and just... idk, not running off to have an imaginary adventure with the human kid, with just the two of them? What the heck, guys.

Now, I'd understand if he'd been saying stuff like "Alright y'all, you better listen to everything I say, you understand!? Clover is the greatest thing since sliced bread, while all of you all nothing but a drag! Tch. Losers." Or "If you don't do this and that, you're fired for good! Clover will replace you! You're all lame anyway!" Or "Clover, get over here and join me on this and that! Right. NOW."

Starlo literally never said something even CLOSE to this. Only after Ed left did he let him and everyone else go, then blurted out "I was considering firing y'all anyway!" Honestly what I know about Star is that he's fiery and passionate and just snapped because he didn't understand why they left. He had done everything right.. right? He couldn't, no, wouldn't comprehend that his whole life in the Wild East has been a big fat lie. It hurt emotionally and his coping mechanism were always distractions. So he refused to see what he had (accidentally) caused.

In short, what bothers me is that all blame is put on Starlo and he's the only one who has to say sorry when he genuinely didn't know any better. Some folks just aren't introspective enough to notice people's true feelings and Star's one of them. And even if he's good at that, he's been so foused on this whole Wild East thing to think about that too, on top of everything.

He literally had to just stare off into the distance and rethink all his life choices that led him to this point (based on his letter), when instead he could have been a lone entertainer from the start. I mean, he carried all the comedy and charm on his own anyway (imo). He'd get to live his passion, plus entertain the tourists, plus boost his own confidence, PLUS none of his friends would be stuck at a job they hate! PLUS Ceroba, while still staying at Star's, could have gotten a better night's sleep with only the two of them being roommates! It would have been a win win win win win kinda situation if only they hadn't been lying to him for such a long time and just spoke up openly. Simple as that!

#sorry for the long rant #i'm crazy about this game #and these characters #starlo #uty #starlo uty #undertale yellow #uty starlo #i won't stop posting these till i get everything out #I know the ff and ceroba probably wanted to spare him from getting disappointed #But still #It's better to be honest and say it as it is #Both the ff and star had good intentions #But a bad way with dealing with the problem #Everybody and nobody is in the wrong here #Not just star

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demigodofhoolemere · 7 months

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Okay, I might be making myself a target here, but I don’t like misinformation and I’ve been seeing this frequently now that loads of people are talking about The Celestial Toymaker:

The character is NOT in yellow-face.

They did not alter his skin tone to try to appear Asian. They did nothing to his physical features, such as his eyes, to try to appear Asian. He does nothing with his voice that tries to emulate any kind of accent. His skin, his voice, his everything, is just Michael Gough.

Please compare him to the other white characters:

Same skin color as them. He is clearly not made up to look like anything other than what he is. The only makeup here is stage makeup that you can’t even see.

Now compare to Michael Gough outside of this role:

Exactly the same as he is as the Toymaker.

The only undeniably Asian thing here is his outfit, which certainly isn’t enough to make the claim that he himself was supposed to be. The Toymaker’s entire realm is made up of a variety of things from Earth that he as a godlike alien entity has no connection to.

(As an aside, to cover my bases, I’ve also been hearing that “celestial” was a derogatory term towards Asians and that therefore he must have been meant to be himself and so the entire character is a racist concept, but I doubt the creators were thinking anything besides “otherworldly”, “ethereal”, or “exalted” and so on when they used the word, and if they were, then at the very worst it would be a play on words about his outfit — not his race — that may have been in poor taste, but not malicious. Old things can be outdated and even wrong without bad intent. You’ve got to give people some grace and the benefit of the doubt, especially when they’re not around to defend themselves for being products of their own time.)

If the only concrete thing you have to argue against the character is his clothing, that’s not yellow-face. All it takes is one look at any of his in-color set photos to see what he looks like — although it shouldn’t even be necessary, because in black and white it’s still obvious he’s not been made up to look any different.

TLDR: The Toymaker was not meant to be Asian, and Michael Gough was not in yellow-face.

#preparing to be torn limb from limb for this but i do NOT want people who are wrong to keep spreading it and making others want to avoid it #people have a hard enough time wanting to engage with 60s who as it is and stuff like this just makes it worse #i’m very protective of this era of the show and i can’t watch this keep happening without saying something to defend it #classic who #the celestial toymaker #celestial toymaker #michael gough #rant #also. we know what it looked like when the bbc used yellow-face back then and um. this sure ain’t it.

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