#AND I've already had the asexuality discussion with him so he knows and is entirely cool with it 🥹💚 | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

violetdisasterzone · 1 year

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I just finished rereading the succubus extra, and I'm reminded of some thoughts I had after reading it the first time. The first time I read the novel (including all the extras), I hadn't really been in/around fandom spaces yet, so I was very surprised to learn that people shipped Shen Qingqiu and Liu Qingge. And since this extra is prime source material for that ship (apparently), I want to talk about it. First of all, I really enjoy this chapter. It contains the scene where we find out bingqiu are fated! soulmates! deeply in love! And this is immediately followed by Shen Qingqiu kicking Liu Qingge into a rose pond. It's priceless.

I've seen Madam Meiyin's fortune be interpreted by liushen shippers as describing Liu Qingge rather than Luo Binghe, so let's unpack why that doesn't make sense. The very first thing she says is that his fated one is younger than him - Liu Qingge is (at this point in the novel, prior to the 5 year nap) already around 15 years older than him. If this was connected to the age of his body (i.e., Shen Jiu), however, this one could be plausible; considering Madam Meiyin first sees the broken thread of either Yue Qi or Qiu Haitang, she could very well be referring to Shen Jiu's age. Liu Qingge also doesn't have the "noble blood" Madam Meiyin describes- or if he does, it's never mentioned in canon. Then, of course, we get Liu Qingge adamantly insisting that this mysterious fated one isn't "deeply in love" with Shen Qingqiu. I've seen people say that this is Liu Qingge being tsundere and denying his romantic feelings, but if he was that deep in denial why would he assume that he was the fated one being discussed at all? And finally, we end the scene with Madam Meiyin saying to his face, "You aren't his fated partner."

In my personal opinion, I think Liu Qingge realized who Madam Meiyin was actually referring to in her divinations. There are very few people who fit that description, and he would be one of the few people who have been around Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe enough to see first hand how close they were, pre-abyss. Of course, Binghe is supposedly "dead" right now, as far as Liu Qingge knows - maybe he would have assumed Madam Meiyin couldn't know/see that. Or maybe I'm pulling this interpretation out of my ass. One of the two.

In regards to the repressed sexual frustration that many people view Liu Qingge as having: whether or not you interpret his character as asexual is a personal choice, as when asked directly he did avoid the question, so neither opinion can be canonically incorrect. With how unaffected he was during the fight with the naked succubi, it's logical to assume that he's either ace or gay. But then when he's hit with the aphrodisiac, he becomes visibly distressed and asks Shen Qingqiu to help - by allowing him to beat him up to vent his irritation.

So aside from liushen necessitating a wild misinterpretation of Shen Qingqiu's character and an outright slap to the face of Luo Binghe's entire existence in the narrative, I also think it does Liu Qingge a disservice. Faced with a soulmate divination of the person he would hypothetically want romantically and he adamantly denies the love part? Literally drugged with sex mist, is offered assistance, and he wants to fight him? This doesn't read to me like he's out of touch with his emotions to a herculean extent - it just reads like he doesn't want that.

#liushen shippers this post is obviously not for you #ship what you want #it's none of my business #I've just had WAY too many experiences with liushen shippers that are avidly anti-bingqiu so now I have a grudge #bingqiu #svsss #svsss meta #mxtx #人渣反派自救系统 #scum villains self saving system #liu qingge #柳清歌

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knjsplaylist · 6 years

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I've seen many people openly speak about jungkook's sexuality, and I just want to know what your thoughts are. Do you doubt that he's completely straight either or that he could be gay?

First of all, the standard, yet completely necessary disclaimer: The following are purely my subjective thoughts about Jungkook derived from my personal perception of him and his situation. His sexuality might be completely different in reality and there is no way for us to actually know anything about it unless Jungkook himself tells us.

Another thing I might as well mention right away is that this post contains strong elements of jikook. I wouldn’t really know how to make a post about this without at least mentioning Jimin in relation to Jungkook.

If that doesn’t suit your fancy then maybe don’t read this.

Also, this is basically just rambles and my own opionon. Other people have already covered this topic so this is just a bunch of extra stuff that doesn’t really matter… I’m really selling this aren’t I?

Sorry about that, anon, and hello. Before I answer your question, I’m gonna have to tackle a little thing in your ask that bothers me; how you wrote it.

I don’t think you should be asking “do you doubt that he’s completely straight” or do you believe he “could be gay”.

Just by writing it like that you’re kind of assuming his sexuality right away. There’s nothing to say that Jungkook is straight at all except society and ingrained heteronormativity. And we can’t doubt something if we’ve got no reason to believe it to begin with (e.i. that Jungkook is straight). Jungkook could most definitely be gay. He could also be bi, pan, asexual, demi, poly, etc. Let’s try not to assume before we even start to speculate. But before you feel bad, I’m not upset with you personally as I don’t think you meant for the ask to come across like it did. However, heteronormativity is something society as a whole is struggling to be rid off or at least something it should struggle to be rid off and it’s important that we don’t let stuff like this slide. We just have to stay aware of the fact that we’ve been socialized in a heteronormative society, and be willing to recognize and learn from the mistakes we make because of it.

Now that that’s over and done with… I’m going to have to talk a bit more about assuming sexualities or people will definitely call me a hypocrite.

There’s a lot of talk about assuming people’s sexuality on Tumblr and while that’s all well and good, I also think people often mistakenly call what actually isn’t assuming sexuality, assuming sexuality.

Assuming sexuality is something problematic and generally happens because of harmful ideas like, you guessed it, heteronormativity. People are quick to call others out about assuming sexuality when that’s not really what they’re doing; there’s a difference between assuming the sexuality of a person because of a supposed normal, and looking at a specific person and deciding on your own that he/she/they, in your eyes, probably has a certain sexuality. People need to be allowed to make up their own minds about how they view and think about other people because frankly, that’s just how people function. We can’t change that and we don’t need to. We just need to be aware of the fact that we can’t know other people’s sexualities unless they let us know, be respectful, not force our thoughts or ideas on the people we’re speculating about, and support them whatever sexuality they do or do not come out as. Please correct me if you think I’m wrong about this because I’m not completely sure myself.

Alright, now we can get into it.

I’ve reblogged a few posts that speculate about Jungkook’s sexuality and all of those are, at least in my opinion, worthy of consideration and, as another sort of disclaimer, I have to say that they’ve probably affected the way I think about it a lot. You might also want to keep in mind that I am still a pretty new ARMY and have only been exposed to about three months of Jeon Jeongguk (and a whole lot of past him of course). So, while I still barely know him not that I ever will, I know for sure that I, subjectively, think he’s attracted to men. I’m not going to give you a bunch of examples of why because other people have already done that. But to mention a few:

1. Jimin,

2. Jimin,

3. Jiminie.

… I’m clearly making a terrible joke, but only in order to bring me to the point that most of it really does have to do with Jimin for me. The rest (stuff that other people have also pointed out) is basically this: all of Bangtan collectively coming out, rainbows, rainbows, rainbows (yes the unicorn, but they also wouldn’t shut up about being “Rainbow BTS” during BVs2), LGBTQ+ elements in their music, excessive m/m skinship, avoidance of heteronormative interview questions, etcetc. What most of that tells me is simply that Jungkook is in an environment where he’s had the opportunity to realize his own sexuality and where he hasn’t had to reject it. It doesn’t say that much about him in particular though, but that’s where Jimin comes in.

And I won’t point you towards moments that have made me think Jungkook is attracted to Jimin — again this is the main reason I think Jungkook is attracted to men — mostly because I don’t think I have to, but also because there are just way too many.

And not to go full jikook-shipper on you, but to me, this one look is enough:

… I’m not even kidding and there’s nothing else to say. Except that obviously, it might not be enough outside the context of Jimin and Jungkook’s relationship in general or for someone who hasn’t seen as much of Jimin and Jungkook as I have and thus has a different understanding of their entire situation. But since I have seen what I have and feel like I know what I know, it’s enough. Well actually, another thing to say about this is that I thought Jungkook was in love with Jimin, or at least had a crush on him, well before I shipped them (in fact, while I shipped Jimin with someone else. clearly that didn’t last very long, though). So I didn’t ship them but I still recognized the way Jungkook looks at Jimin, the way he acts around him, and I thought from the start that there was something there. Which made it really weird to find out how much the roles have changed in that aspect when we compare present-day Jimin and Jungkook to past them. I’m glad I had that experience because it’s a reminder that at least Jungkook’s feelings are not just me seeing what I want to see.

Moving on, there’s the entirety of G.C.F which is another main reason I think Jungkook is at least some kind of gay. Lots of people have already talked about that, though. (If you want more of other people’s opinions just go to my lgbts tag. There’s a lot of stupid stuff but important things too. Edit: so this was posted today and while it’s mostly about Jimin, what it says in the beginning about Jungkook is definitely relevant. The whole post is relevant tbh so just. Go read it.)

So yeah, I think Jungkook likes men. Maybe women too, but definitely men. And if he does like women as well, then I’d say he probably leans more towards men anyways. But sexuality is weird and fluid and honestly, I can’t really speculate about anything other than that I think he’s attracted to men.

And, I feel like I have to remind you, this is just my own thoughts and his sexuality might be completely different in reality. There’s no way to actually know unless Jungkook gets in a relationship or comes out as whatever it may be.

Finally, I’m gonna out myself pun truly not intended but very much appreciated as someone who doesn’t care that much about sexuality, perhaps because I don’t really know my own yet. That’s not to say I don’t fully support the LGBTQ+ community and as you can see in some of the posts I’ve linked, I think it’s incredible that BTS represent and support it. I also would completely support any of the boys if they chose to come out as belonging to any sexuality. But other than that I just don’t really care about their or anyone’s sexualities.

Obviously, I’m a jikook shipper, and since I do believe Jimin and Jungkook are something, and definitely that Jungkook has feelings for Jimin, I also have to believe that Jungkook is attracted to men. But I also don’t think I would have thought more about it if I hadn’t seen other people discussing it/ if I hadn’t gotten this ask. I don’t really know how to say it but sexuality seems kind of overrated to me and I don’t really get why it’s so important for people to know other people’s unless they’re trying to get in someone’s pants/are in the LGBTQ+ community and are looking for representation and support.

I hate to use this particular expression but… it’s not that deep? It’s just another label that, in the end, only means that you love certain people in certain ways.

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engagemachine · 7 years

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Hey! Hello, i am the anon who asked you about Joker sexuality...? Well, first of all is not like i am against your arguments, actually i think that you have a better understanding of Heath!Joker than i can have so, i appreciate a lot your opinion. You are one of my favorite authors after all :) but i have a problem with the Joker- TDK Joker- being a rapist. I've read Brian Azarello's graphic novel and i feel like there´s little moments where the Joker is ooc and i take the rape scene like one.

(cont.) I do not see the character of the Joker as a sexual predator, since in the first place - as you well explained - he is not very interested in sex itself. That is why he comes to think of him as a person who could be demisexual, since his disinterestedness for sex and interaction with other people may scratch with asexuality, however it has been shown that the Joker is able to maintain Sexual relations - Gotham City Sirens and several lost sketches of Paul Dini and Bruce Timm - and also enjoys these; Yet it is not something I do with everyday - the constant rejection of Harley - or that I look for it with any other person, that I remember. I do not say it has to be a connection of affection or love if you want - can the Joker really love? - but one that seeks dominance, possessiveness and make the other person know all that, which is under his control, under his control, that has been trapped by him and only by him. I can easily relate to the Nolan Joker in such a scenario, without a real interest in sex or in someone, but who may be able to it, either with a man or a woman and try to convey those feelings to the other person. I do not know, I feel I’m not very good trying to make myself understood ^. ^ ’ Whatever, i really sorry for the too late response, but i just finished my last year of high school and well, i was a little busy saving the semester xd and also so sorry if this doesn’t make sense, the english is not my first language.

Anonymous,

Hey! Thanks for getting back to me on our previous discussion. I apologize it’s taken me so long to respond to your messages. Sometimes I like to set hefty asks like these aside so I can have time to properly mull over a response.

Regarding Brian Azzarello’s interpretation of the Joker and the infamous rape scene, I have this say: every writer’s interpretation of the Joker is going to be a little different, but the fact of the matter is, in this particular graphic novel, it’s there, it happened, and it’s canon. Whether or not that interpretation is in-line with Nolan and Heath’s interpretation of the Joker is really up to you, but I do happen to think it’s fitting for the character.

I’m about to go off on a little bit of a tangent, but I have a particular beef with people who say they do not think Nolanverse Joker would rape someone – but only if their primary argument stems from the Joker’s dialogue from The Dark Knight where he states, “I’m a better class of criminal.” A lot of fans have taken this statement quite literally, and thus believe this means he’s a more upstanding/classier criminal – which is ridiculous. We’re talking about the same man who blew up a school, attempted to poison the entire Batfamily, poisoned Batman (probably on multiple different occasions), shot Barbara Gordon in the groin, paralyzing her from the waist down for the rest of her life, beat Jason Todd to death with a crowbar, killed Jim Gordon’s wife, Sarah Essen (this was after he’d kidnapped dozens of babies and left them to crawl around in the basement of the GCPD headquarters), made it rain glass over Gotham (literally, after blowing up a blimp filled with broken glass), and planned to launch his girlfriend into space by way of a rocket. All that’s just the icing on the cake. So while there’s really no question that the Joker is absolutely vile, I think some fans like to pretend Nolanverse Joker is a little more “civilized” than he really is, just because you don’t see some of the more gruesome things he’s done in The Dark Knight. I mean, someone cut open Kilson’s stomach in TDK and planted a bomb in there and then sewed his stomach back up, only to have the bomb detonate sometime later. This is the same someone who herded hundreds of Gotham citizens onto two separate ferries with the intent to blow up both of them.

I’m bringing up all of these points to demonstrate that this is a man who has zero regard for human life – even his own! – so why would he flinch at rape? What’s stopping him? The answer is nothing. Like I said in my response to your previous ask, if the Joker thought it would hurt the victim, or send the right message, he would do it. It’s not about the pleasure, and it’s probably not even about the act itself. It’s about what happens after. The message that it sends.

In The Killing Joke, the Joker shoots Barbara Gordon in the groin, instantly paralyzing her. Afterwards, he undresses her and takes pictures of her naked body to send to her father. This, to me, is quite possibly one of (if not the most) horrific and violating things the Joker has ever done to another human being. These are the acts of a man not afraid to debase others, put them in compromising positions, or do any number of exploitative and vile things to them, all for the benefit of eliciting some kind of reaction. He didn’t have to rape her in that scene because, to Gordon, who only saw the pictures of the ‘aftermath’, it looked like the Joker already had.

I understand that you’re not arguing that the Joker wouldn’t rape because you’re not coming from a standpoint where you think he’s “above” that. But if you agree that it’s not an issue of morality like many fans do, then truly what would stop him from committing an act of rape?

Rape is always an act of power – or at least a derivative of it – and the Joker is someone who gets his thrills from exerting his power/control in other ways. I think if he really wanted sex, he’d manipulate you into wanting it, too, rather than just taking it from you. That’s certainly not to say that he’s “above” the act of it, though. That drives me nuts. I think certain Joker fans are uncomfortable with the idea of their favorite character committing such an unspeakable crime (but then are somehow okay with him being a mass murderer, which makes no sense).

TL,DR: trying to pin some semblance of a moral ‘code’ on the Joker is ridiculous. He is capable of committing rape – but it has to serve a purpose beyond “I derive a sense of power from this” – it has to send a message. It has to be funny.

(Side note: within the context of my own work, I actually have the Joker orchestrate the rape of a character – a rape that he himself doesn’t partake in –which I find incredibly fascinating. Within the context of the story, he can’t partake in the act himself, but it absolutely does serve a purpose, and the rape serves as a catalyst in order to drive our protagonist closer to the edge of her sanity. In the end, it is funny to him – he laughs – because the protagonist, even after finding out that the Joker was the one to orchestrate her trauma – still loves him in spite of it. That’s the power of his manipulation.)

The Joker’s relationship with Harley is a little more complicated to delve into, a relationship I could probably spend hours detailing in its many complexities. I think that his constant rejection of her is not because he doesn’t want to have sex with her, or not because he doesn’t enjoy being affectionate, but it’s quite simply that he’s preoccupied with other things 99% of the time. I cannot imagine what it must be like inside the Joker’s head. I imagine the wheels and gears up there are spinning constantly, a perpetual, unforgiving litany of voices, ideas, images, sounds, etc. In the way that Harley is obsessed with the Joker – wanting to be by his side and pleasing him – it’s the same way in which the Joker is obsessed with Batman, wanting to be near him, test him, and illicit reactions from him. He’s constantly trying to find the next big thing to make Batman ‘break his one rule’.

The short of it is this: I don’t think the Joker is completely devoid of feeling. He’s been shown to be quite fond of Harley at times (and even drawn into intensely jealous fits of rage when she goads him).

OH, and to answer your other question, I definitely think the Joker is “capable” of love… I don’t think he gives a flying fuck about it, though.

Thanks for your ask(s)! It’s always nice to discuss the Joker, regardless of what the topic is.

#anonymous #asks #tw: rape

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