#Azriel only being soft for Gwyn is basically canon at this point

[acourtofthought]

I saw a pro e/riel post twisting Elain needing sunshine by attaching it to Azriel. Basically they pointed out moments the sun or sunshine was involved when Az was in the scene. In those moments, it was not necessarily in a good light (pun intended) either and involved his shadows going away. His shadows are part of who he is!! That’s something whoever he ends up with will need to embrace. I mean the post was just overreaching. I actually laughed. Let’s just ignore the fact that Lucien is the actual son and heir to the sun personified. It was too painful to read the post.

It's funny how they're trying to twist the character of Azriel into Lucien. They always make Az softer than he actually is. Sure, he acts "gentle" around Elain but it's canon that Az is aware of when Feyre is watching him with her (which would lead to him being on his best behavior). It's also canon that Az did not learn how to act in socially appropriate ways through traditional means and picked up on those cues by "observing" others. Which means the "I'm such a soft boy" persona he sometimes seems to have is probably not all that sincere but more "I'm supposed to behave this way because others expect it". Because it's a more regular occurrence that we're reminded of how much rage Az has, how violent he is, how aggressive he can be, how dark he is. I don't think I've ever seen an E/riel admit to those parts of canon Az. They only like to focus on his good boy routine around Elain. You know who is a legit gentlemen? Who actually controls his temper and has a very nurturing, sensitive side and does not like violence? Lucien, Elain's actual Mate. They try to make Az more like Lucien so they can make E/riel work better. And they also try to make Elain more like Gwyn (warrior like) so they can again bridge the gap between the two characters. And now sunshine and Az? Off the top of my head, I remember Az's shadows hiding from the Sun, disappearing in the Sun, not being brave enough to face the Sun, Azriel's hair "gobbling" up the Sun, Az liking to "work from the shadows", Az having a "darkness" to him. Of course, SJM will occasionally write about the sun shining on Az but they're missing the metaphors. Az is to the Sun as Rhys would be to Spring. It's not a match. Lucien is not only the Heir to Day (the son of the Sun personified) but there are constant mentions of the sun setting Lucien's hair aglow, shimmering down on his hair, catching on the gold in his eye. They can ship who they want to ship but they can not force the narrative that Azriel has any connection to light and Sun. Elain, Mor, Lucien, Tarquin. These are the characters who are mentioned as light and bright. It's ridiculous to try to fit characters like Rhys, Nesta, Azriel, etc into that mold.

#pro elucien #anti e/riel

[musicallibrarian93]

I love the thought of Emerie and Nesta being confused about how Gwynriel's relationship works

Emerie: But like... is he romantic?

Nesta: Yeah I can't really imagine him cuddling and being sappy with you.

Emerie: Or spouting epic love poems.

Nesta: What is he like?

Gwyn: (blushes) He's...

---(Has flashback to the night before)---

Azriel: (enters their room in a good mood) my love, you'll Never guess what! Nuala Cerridwen made these pastries that we used to have all the time as children! You have to try one! (tries to shove croissant in her face)

Gwyn: Someones in a good mood :)

Azriel: And I finally mastered how to play that piece we heard at the theatre last week.

Gwyn: (continues to smile at him)

Azriel: Then, I got to come home to the most beautiful female, that my shadows told me, had visited a little shop in Velaris today (smirks)

Gwyn: They won't let me surprise you!

Azriel: Gwyn, my love, you could wear potato sack and I would fall to my knees before you.

----

Gwyn: He's Azriel. (Smiles at him from across the ring)

#Azriel only being soft for Gwyn is basically canon at this point #gwynriel #Gwyneth berdara #azriel #Azriel berdara #shadowsinger #spymaster #acotar #acomaf #acowar #acofas #acosf #valkyries #nesta archeron #emerie

[nikethestatue]

So heres the thing that i found really confusing is why the hell some people call Az bonus chapter “uncomfortable and “ toxic”. The first time i read it i mean..that Elriel scene was hot 🥵🥵but toxic?? Thats the last thing i’d think of because u know why?? It is a freaking NA book.

For me the chapter compare to any other NA books i’ve read ( lj shen, rina kent, pen. douglas) is sooo vanilla like only the cherry on top. The antis do know right that now acotar being market into NA instead of YA so darker content is expected and there will be A LOT OF SEX, THINKING ABT SEX AND AT ONE POINT WILL DO SEX!!!

We’ve seen Elriel soft moment in the four books ( truth teller, “do u want me to show u the garden”, “i’’m getting her back atc..) like their feelings towards each other does not come from nowhere. Everything Azriel’s said or think abt is the same as what Nessian did in acosf.

For me in a NA book if two characters feel lust towards each other then that is a good thing like that what makes the book NA in the first place. Sjm wants to write abt Azriel kinky fuck thats why the crumbs that he’s a freak and Elain is aroused/ not a virgin were mentioned like if they would bang right away then its not surprising for the readers *cough*offer and permission *cough*. So the argument abt Az is toxic and etc makes me assume 3 things

1. They still in the YA zone

2. Their fantasy abt Az is diff from whats written in his chapter

3. Because it is Elriel

Your thoughts??

Hi,

I think I agree with all 3 points, but I also feel that the author herself has changed--she is older now, she is writing things that are different, and despite how people feel about ACOSF, she basically devoted an entire book to someone dealing with PTSD and self-hate. That's very different from TOG or even ACOTAR. Hence her writing would be different as well, and probably not as appropriate for the YA crowd. I don't like generalizing, but the majority of what *I* have seen out there, when it comes to Gwyn adoration, are younger women--teens, early 20s. Gwyn is a typical YA character--spunky, very young, determined and 'unburdened' by female characteristics, such as a family, children, running a household, cooking, taking care of life, taking care of others. What's the most common complaint about Feyre now? She is boring. All she does is stays home and is pregnant, and why did she have a baby at 21? and now she is a MILF. Perhaps, perhaps not, but she certainly isn't the spunky, adventurous 19 year old of ACOTAR. The YA crowd loves Gwyn, and it's understandable.

Elain is a more cerebral character. You already know that she is probably not going to swing a sword, which is great. Because there is a place for characters like that. But I think that's one of the reasons for the hate -- she is 'boring'. However, I think SJM wants to write characters like these now, because with them, she can explore a variety of different ideas, even what femininity is, how a non-fighting woman can make a difference--she already began that journey with Elain in previous books. Ultimately she writes books about her version of female-empowerment and the difference all women can make. She's written like 10 books with fighting females. Yet, some of her more interesting characters are people like Yarne and Elide and even like Amarantha and Maeve, because they don't rely on the swords, but mostly their knowledge, cunning, abilities.

I think sexually, SJM is also ready to explore other avenues. I don't see her writing the same as she did 7-10 years ago. I don't see her writing scenes like earthquakes and tumbling mountains and snapping palm trees when a male character orgasms. It's a little (a lot) ridiculous, but I feel like we'll see a lot more of Cassian-like sex, than Rhys.

I feel like what disturbed some readers, especially the younger ones in the POV, is the 'realness' of the thoughts. It wasn't 'prettified' with some fanciful language (btw, like the REST OF THE BOOK). Nothing at all different between Cassian and Azriel, both think of and ponder and want sex. But I feel like people, for some reason, aren't as emotionally invested in Cassian, or maybe he was always viewed as 'lusty'. Azriel is mysterious and less obvious, but suddenly reading purely sexual thoughts from him was a wakeup call. And thoughts about the 'boring' Elain and not the girl-boss Gwyn.

I think SJM wants to explore some more unconventional, 'weirder' sexual things with Az, and I simply don't think that he'll be doing that with a character like Gwyn. Not because of Gwyn, but of who identifies with her--teens, young adults.

Listen, for all I know, it might not even be Elriel--it might not be Elain and Az (though I highly doubt it), but it wont be Az and Gwyn either. Like, Az is NOT spanking or tying up Gwyn, and again, not because of Gwyn, but because of Az. Just yesterday I read some comment about someone arguing that maybe 'Gwyn is ready sexually' and all that. And I don't argue that, though I didn't see any indication of it in the books. But the question is, is Az ready? Because it takes two to tango. And it seems like everything revolves around Gwyn and her readiness in those canons. He is never mentioned--like he is just a stud put there to penetrate. But I don't see that interest or willingness in his character for her at all.

Let's remember that 'offer and permission' came from Elain. Elain willingly slept with Graysen before marriage. Elain has been putting gentle moves on Az. SHE is ready. He is ready.

I think it's definitely an amalgamation of things, but these will not be YA books going forward. And if the POV was so controversial, then yikes, I don't think that the actual book would be palatable for some readers.

#anon ask #anon response #pro elriel #elriel

[jungleslang]

I feel like a lot of people are really sleeping on the Band of Exiles. Like can we just take a second to think about Lucien, the son of Day who was raised in the Autumn Court, and ultimately found a home in the Spring Court. Now, he's not welcome there any more, and despite his connection to the Night Court, that isn't his home either. Lucien has ties to all of these different courts, and yet he is not able to have a true home in any of them. Now let's think about Jurian, who used to be a general and was a fierce defender of his people, willing to do terrible things to win the war. His soul was trapped against his will and in the possession of a sadistic psychopath for hundreds of years, only for him to be resurrected by a different psychopath. He's now in a world where everyone expected him to be the bad guy and didn't bother to look any further, even though the first thing he wanted to do when he got resurrected was make amends, do the right thing. He's in a world that has moved on without him. And then we have Vassa, who was ripped from her position and her body, sold and enslaved to a death God. She is a queen whose kingdom is no longer hers. During one of her visions, Elain says she can hear Vassa screaming with utter rage.

These are three people who have experienced immeasurable pain, who don't really have a home, who are struggling to find where they belong, and who ultimately feel like outcasts. Yet they somehow managed to find solace, maybe even a home, in each other. And we have no idea how this happened or how it went down. We've barely been given glimpses into their dynamic. This is one of the reasons why I desperately hope SJM will make Elriel canon and not Elucien. I NEED a book about the Band of Exiles in my life. And I know SJM could write a book about Elucien and the Band of Exiles together, but I personally feel like that wouldn't work because I don't think there would be enough space to explore both of them in depth.

Elain and Azriel are already friends who clearly have a strong bond. And we saw in Az's POV that they both have romantic feelings for each other. So there is already a foundation for their relationship. At this point in time, Elain and Azriel already like each other deeply. This is not the case for Elucien. Elain has been avoiding him for three books now, and they haven't really had any significant interactions. So if SJM went the Elucien route, she would basically have to build them up from scratch. And these are romance books, so Elucien would be the main focus, which leaves little space to explore the Band of Exiles in depth. No hate to Elucien obviously, I see why people ship them and the potential they have, but I personally would never want them over the Band of Exiles. Like these are the people Lucien has chosen to be with, while Elain was thrown at him, which he himself states in ACOWAR. Vassa and Jurian are the people he feels comfortable with, the people he trusts, and most importantly, the people who make him feel wanted. Wanted enough to stay with them after everything he's been through and after being kicked to the curb by Tamlin, a person he cherished. Like how can I not want that for for my precious foxboy???? It literally makes me so soft just thinking about it.

I also kinda feel like we can see the ease Lucien has around Vassa and Jurian. But Lucien and Elain are not at ease around each other, not at all, although I guess you could say that's because Elain has avoided him and not really given it a chance. But honestly, I wouldn't even care if SJM gave us a Band of Exiles book with no romance at all, and it was just them forming a friendship like Nesta, Gwyn, and Emerie have. Let's be real, Lucien, Vassa, and Jurian are all interesting, complex characters on their own, with painful backstories, but when you put them all together??? Ugh, it kills me. Maybe I'm just a slut for a good found family trope. Give me that over a mate bond any day tbh. I will be absolutely devastated if SJM doesn't dedicate a whole book to them, because they deserve it. Regardless of if Azriel ends up with Gwyn, I still wouldn't really want a book about Lucien and Elain together, especially when he has this amazing dynamic already that's begging to be explored. And when we've had two mate stories in a row already.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is if I don't get a whole book just for the Band of Exiles, I will RIOT. Like you guys, the potential they have is insane. I know she won't, but if SJM made them into a polyship my heart would explode.

#acosf #acosf spoilers #lucien #lucien vanserra #vassa #jurian #band of exiles #vassa x lucien #vassa x lucien x jurian #vucien #elriel #elain archeron #azriel #acotar

[bookofmirth]

everyones entitled to their opinion but the amount of people who have been saying how “confusing” az’s chapter is and how sjm’s a bad writer for writing it that way honestly annoys me? you said you felt vindication when you read it and tbh, same, it confirmed everything i thought since acowar and made perfect sense with what we know of az as a character - that he’s deeply traumatized and incapable of creating and maintaining healthy relationships (as of rn). but beyond that, i dont see how it was unclear in the terms of which ships will be endgame?? before that chapter i was still uncertain and thought it could go either way (tho i was leaning to elucien bc of the already existing bond), and now im pretty certain its not gonna be elr*el in the long term. idk, i just feel like a part of fandom has built their own vision of the characters and future events that isn’t supported by text and now that theyre disappointed it isnt canon, they blame sjm for it? i really dont think it was a confusing chapter at all, i thought her intentions were perfectly clear with the types of tropes she used, i dont think its fair to say it was badly written just bc it didnt support their fanon ideas that was built more on headcanons than actual textual evidence... idk if i sound mean lol but just my 2 cents, obviously it doesnt go for everyone i feel like a certain part of fandom has a certain version of characters in their heads that they consider as canon bc they want to see them that way, but they aren’t really the same as the actual characters we’re presented in their story

Anon, I am going CRAZY over here.

I’ve been trying to figure out why I take on some arguments and others I don’t, and it basically comes down to 1) what is supported in the text, 2) people’s very wild interpretations of the text, and 3) people confusing their interpretation, fanon, what have you, with canon. 

I actually make my students read this article before they respond to a text because it’s super important to understand what, exactly, they (and we) are responding to. It’s nothing to do with literary criticism, but it still has bearings here because people are taking lines of text and imposing these wildly different meanings that have zero support. Like I mentioned in this post, we cannot say why Elain’s face gets tight or she shrinks from Lucien. There is literally no evidence one way or another, so I could that she like....... has a bad problem with farting when he’s around and is embarrassed. And who’s to stop me????

And you’re right, the problem here is that they think they are responding to canon, when actually it’s this wild interpretation of canon that began before acowar even came out, for the sole purpose of furthering hate on Mor. It had nothing to do with actually, genuinely liking it. But it’s grown into this monstrosity we see today and yeah... people are literally making posts where their “evidence” is two people being a room together and noticing that fact = endgame super romantic ship.

And that’s totally different from actually acknowledging the bare minimum of evidence, and saying “fingers crossed I hope it happens because I love it!!” That would be fine. I literally do not care if people do that. I do care when they willfully misinterpret what’s on the page and try to act like 1) they have found facts, and 2) they pretend like that “fact” should have any bearing on what other people ship. 

So, re: Az. 

I literally made this argument four years ago lol and if you read it real quick you can see that that ship came about (in January 2017) not because of all this “evidence” people found in acowar, which didn’t exist yet for us, but before that for other fandom, fanon reasons. 

And since acowar came out, I’ve pretty much avoided talking about Az because I know that somehow, the fact that he’s dark and twisty is.... controversial??? Yeah, I compared him to Tamlin and I still hold to that (I saw a vagueblog about my idea and I still think that comparison is accurate, but anyway). But people just? Don’t want to hear anything like that about Az. Even though that’s literally what we are given.

There is nothing wrong with saying that he’s dark af. In fact, all of the evidence we have from the book is that he is not only dark, but that he is increasingly  losing control. There was the blowup in acowar, and the increased disrespect of Rhys (and Feyre) in acosf, refusal to take orders from someone he is supposedly so loyal to. Even back in acomaf there were multiple signs that Mor was concerned about bruising his ego (literally the first thing that Mor says about Az is that he would want to know something, I’m not going to look it up but the implication was that he would be upset if he didn’t know).

From acosf:

Az had a vicious competitive streak. It wasn’t boastful and arrogant, the way Cassian himself knew he himself was prone to be, or possessive and terrifying like Amren’s. No, it was quiet and cruel and utterly lethal. (pg. 254)

“He’d tortured it out of someone. Of many people.” (pg. 224)

“Some silent conversation passed between him and his mate, and Cassian knew Rhys was asking about the torture - apologizing for making Feyre witness even the ten minutes Azriel had worked. (pg. i lost my place idk)

“Opening movements in a symphony of pain that Azriel could conduct with brutal efficiency. (pg. 375)

So asdkhasldkjasda if only we could STOP saying that Az is actually a dark soft boi and just acknowledge that he’s fucked up and that him being with ANYONE at this point would potentially be harmful to that person, be it Elain or Gwyn or whoever? That chapter did NOTHING but continue a line of character development that had already been in place, and I get the need to romanticize dark boys, but idk, don’t pretend he’s something he’s not.

#acosf #acosf spoilers #spoilers #azriel #ask #okay now I have a meeting lol #anon