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plus-size-reader · 4 years

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Long Time Coming

Daenerys Targaryen x Plus size!reader

Word Count: 1570 words

Warnings: none

Summary: Dany is in love with Viserys' bride, and once he's gone they become very close, and she admits just how much she cares for reader

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Daenerys didn’t have very many people in her life that she cared for. Aside from her brother, she had no real family to speak of. Even allies were in short supply where she was, so far away from her father’s kingdom.

Though, when she stopped to think about it, you had always been there.

For as long as she could remember, you had been in her life with the intended purpose of marrying her brother when you came of age. That was your only purpose as far as anyone was concerned, but not Dany.

You just didn’t bond with the man as much as you did his younger sister, but not for a lack of trying. You wanted desperately for your future husband to appreciate you and come to respect you as you did him.

...But there was just no getting away from the truth.

In every way that Viserys was cruel and unfeeling, his sister was kind and gentle. Dany always had time for you and very clearly cared for you in a way that no one else did. Where Viserys wouldn't even look your way, the young girl provided companionship and a friend.

It was just impossible to ignore the difference, and as you got older, it was only more obvious.

Whenever you two were together, you found yourself hanging on her every word and getting closer and closer as the time went on. You cared for her, and you knew she felt the same. It was all in the way her eyes sparkled when you were together.

Not that you could even consider doing anything about it. Your duty was to your husband, the rightful king of the seven kingdoms, and nothing else could be more important than that.

Not even your truest friend.

So, you forced yourself to ignore the obvious feelings you had for the young woman and focused more and more on being the doting wife a future king deserved.

Even when Viserys was cruel to you, shouting things that you wouldn't have expected from your worst enemy, and striking you for the fun of it, you kept to yourself. As far as you were concerned, this was just the sort of life you were meant to have.

It was your duty as his wife, even if the very sight of the spiteful man made your skin crawl.

Now, it was no secret that Viserys wasn’t the sort of husband that he should have been. He was selfish and treated you more like a handmade than a bride, but there was little anyone could do.

The dragon was someone that you had been raised to fear, as well as respect and even as an adult, you found it hard to argue against him. Viserys was rude and aggressive, and he always had been.

You had little hope that it would change, no matter what you did.

There was nothing you could do, given the little power and status you had against him, so you simply allowed the man you’d married to live life his way. It couldn't matter how many people it hurt or how many times you went to bed with tears in your eyes.

It was the life you had always been meant to live.

You had given up on hope of that changing a long time ago, and as far as you were concerned, it was always going to be that way.

Until, of course, all your lives changed entirely.

Viserys assumed that marrying Daenerys off to the great Khal Drogo meant that he would be rid of her forever and would get an army to boot but it was clear to you that wasn’t going to be the case.

The blonde had been controlling both you and his younger sister through violence and fear for years, but his harsh threats and pouty nature were no match for the great Khal. You could see that much from the moment you set eyes on the large man.

That theory only strengthened as Dany began to bond with the Khal and gained his favor. There was the power, a power she found within herself that she couldn’t have possibly had before him. It proved everything to you that you’d always known.

It proved that she was a leader, and stronger than she had ever been given credit for in all her life.

Those were all things you knew but had never seen.

...But that wasn't all.

Through that newfound power, Dany came to terms with the things she’d had to experience at the hands of her brother. All those years of torment and abuse, so many things he’d done to her, and she had never been able to make it right before.

Now though, the Khaleesi of a large Khalasar with one of the most revered and ruthless men at her beck and call, it was only a matter of time before she finally got back at her brother. In that same way though, it was only a matter of time before Viserys realized that same thing.

You watched him for days, growing more and more restless at the idea of no longer being in control, and losing any chance at the throne he'd been holding onto for years in his mind.

It seemed only a matter of time before he snapped.

Within a few days, much longer than you'd assumed, Viserys found himself threatened by her to the point where something had to be done. That came in the form of threatening both her life and the life of her unborn baby.

There was only one way that could end.

Standing there, in that dank, dark hut, you watched as two large men held Viserys down, his arms snapping beneath their calloused hands. You knew that they were going to kill him, but you felt nothing at the thought.

Perhaps it was the fact he'd threatened the one you truly loved, or maybe it was just about years of abuse at his hand that you'd suffered. In any case, when his head hit the ground, hardened now in molten gold, you didn’t mourn as you thought you would.

You didn’t even bother to look away as you stared down at him.

Perhaps it should have affected you more, especially after all the time you spent by his side, but you didn’t see that boy you’d been betrothed too in those lifeless eyes. In fact, that boy had been gone for a very long time.

In many ways, you didn't even recognize who he'd become, and you were sure that Daenerys felt the same way as she too stared with eyes cold.

In any case, you remained under the protection of the Dothraki and their wonderful Khaleesi, even when your husband was dead. Dany simply told you that you were her family, with or without Viserys.

...And that was as far as it went, for a long time.

It wasn't until one night, sitting by the fire, after everyone else had turned in for bed that the relationship you two shared finally changed.

Daenerys had recently lost the great Khal after a seemingly harmless wound festered beyond repair. That left her in a very emotionally raw place, having lost the man she cared so deeply for, and the only person she'd speak to was you.

Perhaps it wasn't ideal, all things considered, but you were her oldest friend and as Dany mourned, you sat by her side, holding her hand tightly in your own.

"How did you feel when Viserys died?"

The words left her lips heavily after what seemed like an eternity in silence. It was a fair question, seeing as she'd lost her husband recently after you'd lost your own but it didn't seem like a fair comparison.

It was clear that Drogo loved Dany, and she him while the relationship you and Viserys shared was closer to mutual contempt than anything else. The slight grief you shared at seeing the life leave his eyes would be nothing to her current morning.

Still, you answered her question.

"I felt very little, as horrible as that is. Perhaps I was relieved that he couldn't hurt you anymore, if anything" you shrugged, slightly fearing that she would think you cruel for such a response. Terrible or not, Viserys was her brother.

Though, you should have known better.

For every horrible, vile thing Viserys did and said toward you, Dany experienced tenfold. She knew what kind of monster he was. In fact, she often felt the same way you did, through the vein that he could no longer lay his hands on you.

"I thought about it a thousand times before, what it would be like to just take you and escape somewhere far away from him" she allowed, her voice little more than a whisper at that.

You were both painfully aware of the feelings you shared for one another, but that was the first time either of you had taken that jump and said it out loud. It felt wrong, especially seeing as she was in mourning but perhaps this was what she needed...finally.

Maybe she just needed to understand just how much you cared for her as well.

"Perhaps we could go now, far far away from here" you replied, your grip tightening on her hand without even meaning to, but you continued, ignoring the nerves you felt. "Across the water, to Dorne, or Essos"

You both knew that you couldn't, not for a good long while yet, though maybe the dream would be enough to keep you both going until you could.

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jackoshadows · 3 years

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Came across this quote today

“Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

and it really embodies how characters in Westeros are put into certain boxes with certain expectations by family and society, and then seen as less than when they don’t live up to those expectations.

Like Arya, who often questions her mother’s love because she is expected to be like Sansa in all ways and no matter how hard she tries, she cannot be like Sansa. And then there is Sam, who just wants to read his books in peace and is instead forced to hunt and learn to fight. And because Sam is not good at fighting, even when taught by a dozen men at arms, he believes that he is an useless coward.

And then there is Jon Snow who believes that he is as qualified as Robb Stark to lead and that he is as deserving of Winterfell as Robb. Maybe, it’s this self-confidence in himself that helps Jon cut through all the superficial BS and see people for who they really are.

Like understanding that Arya is perfectly fine as is and having a sword made in the Winterfell forge for her because she wants to learn how to fight and that could be what she’s really good at.

Or just being happy that Bran is alive instead of being sad that he’s a cripple.

“He woke up,” he said. “The gods gave him back.”

“Crippled,” Mormont said. “I’m sorry, boy. Read the rest of the letter.”

He looked at the words, but they didn’t matter. Nothing mattered. Bran was going to live. “My brother is going to live,” he told Mormont. - Jon, AGoT

Or how he treated Tyrion differently to the rest of Westeros once he came to know him. Asking him to carry messages to Bran and Rickon and requesting that they be friends.

Or how he basically told his stewards and builders to eff off when they complained about Satin being a whore .

What he was in Oldtown is none of our concern. He’s quick to learn and very clever. The other recruits started out despising him, but he won them over and made friends of them all. He’s fearless in a fight and can even read and write after a fashion. He should be capable of fetching me my meals and saddling my horse, don’t you think?” - Jon, ADwD

Or how he sees the spearwives as warriors instead of women and entrusts the defense of an entire castle to them, against opposition from the men of the NW who now call Long Barrow as Whore’s Barrow.

Or seeing the value in Samwell Tarly despite people like Chett wanting to teach a fish to climb a tree, no matter if it even kills the fish in the attempt.

“Leave him where he is,” Chett said. “The Wall is no place for the weak. Let him train until he is ready, no matter how many years that takes. Ser Alliser shall make a man of him or kill him, as the gods will.” - Jon, AGoT

And Jon explaining how every person has their own value.

“A maester forges his chain with study, he told me. The different metals are each a different kind of learning, gold for the study of money and accounts, silver for healing, iron for warcraft. And he said there were other meanings as well. The collar is supposed to remind a maester of the realm he serves, isn’t that so? Lords are gold and knights steel, but two links can’t make a chain. You also need silver and iron and lead, tin and copper and bronze and all the rest, and those are farmers and smiths and merchants and the like. A chain needs all sorts of metals, and a land needs all sorts of people. The Night’s Watch needs all sorts too. Why else have rangers and stewards and builders? Lord Randyll couldn’t make Sam a warrior, and Ser Alliser won’t either. You can’t hammer tin into iron, no matter how hard you beat it, but that doesn’t mean tin is useless. Why shouldn’t Sam be a steward?”

Maester Aemon closed his eyes, and for a brief moment Jon was afraid that he had gone to sleep. Finally he said, “Maester Luwin taught you well, Jon Snow. Your mind is as deft as your blade, it would seem.” - Jon, AGoT

This is a character who has forged an uneasy truce to an 8000 year old feud and that’s no easy task. Of course, sometimes raw hate and bigotry often trumps common sense as we see in real life and while characters like Marsh and Yarwyck understand that the ice zombies are the real threat and know that the Freefolk will provide for an army of the dead, they are still unwilling to let past hatreds be bygones. They are still grumbling about the Freefolk eating their food unwilling to listen to reason, despite Jon explaining the situation to them - namely that they need men to rebuild, garrison and defend the nineteen castles spread out over 300 miles and currently only 3 castles are being used! And no one else in Westeros is ready to help the NW or offer more men. Jon is even demanding men from Alys Karstark at her wedding party! That’s how desperate he is.

So considering how hard it was to get the NW to back his calls for unity, I can imagine that doing the same for the whole of Westeros is going to be a hundred fold harder.

And that’s why this book quote embodies Jon as a character who can reach across cultural divides because he understands and is open to different perspectives, doesn’t judge a book by it’s cover and acknowledges that he ultimately does not know everything.

So many stars, he thought as he trudged up the slope through pines and firs and ash. Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of the Morning. All those he shared with Ygritte, but not some of the others. We look up at the same stars, and see such different things. The King’s Crown was the Cradle, to hear her tell it; the Stallion was the Horned Lord; the red wanderer that septons preached was sacred to their Smith up here was called the Thief. - Jon, ASoS

Which is why when Dany lands in Westeros with the ‘Mad Queen’ propaganda following her, Jon is going to base his opinions of her on his interaction with her, rather than on what Westeros or Essos judges her to be.

#Jon Snow #Samwell Tarly #arya stark #Satin Flowers #Tyrion Lannister #Night's Watch #asoiaf

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targaryen-stronghold · 5 years

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Dany burning kings landing made no sense. I mean why? What was the point?

There was no point other than to vilify Dany and justify her killing in the next episode and the xenophobic behavior she encountered in the North.

1. Daenerys and “burning cities”

Dany is a Targaryen and she has dragons. Dragons were the Targaryens weapons for centuries, for obvious reasons and fire has always been their method of execution (symbolized in their house motto “fire and blood”). While the Starks used their greatsword Ice to execute traitors, the Targaryens used their dragons or fire. Therefore, Dany doesn’t need to know how to wield a sword when she has her dragons. However, she always used them to help the oppressed and destroy oppression. Like her haters like to bring up, she has indeed threaten her enemies with her dragons because duh, but several other characters have also threatened others and that doesn’t mean anything. But context is important: how and why she threatens to burn cities?

In Season 2, Dany arrives at Qarth. She and her people are exhausted from the Red Waste and she needs to enter the city in order for them to survive. Jorah even tells her the gates of Qarth are known as “garden of bones” because of the skeletons of people whose entering was denied. However, she’s met with suspicion and distrust and the Thirteen don’t want to let her in. When courtesy fails, Dany threatens to burn their city to the ground when her dragons are grown. This sounds more like despair than an actual threat because Dany knows neither she nor her dragons will survive if the Thirteen don’t grant them shelter. How could she burn their city to the ground if she and her dragons are dead? This threat also grants her the compliment: “you are a true Targaryen”.

Later on, during Season 5, Dany is chatting with Hizdahr zo Loraq and says one day Meereen will return to the dirt and at her command if needed be. However, this happens during the reopen of the fighting pits of Meereen. Dany is against it but eventually agrees because it’s tradition and important to her people. But she’s visibly uncomfortable during the fights and doesn’t recognize it as “greatness”. Hizdahr then says: that is a vital part of the great city of Meereen, which existed long before you or I, and will remain standing long after we’ve returned to the dirt. Dany is saying she doesn’t care about tradition, it’s the people she cares about. She’s also measuring Hizdahr’s loyalty in this scene. The real identity behind the Sons of the Harpy is still unknown at this point (Varys only unravels it’s funded by the former slave masters of the cities Dany freed later on). For all Dany knows, Hizdahr is still a suspect.

In Season 6, after returning from her venture with the Dothraki, Dany threatens to burn down Yunkai, Astapor and Volantis. Her city is under siege and attack. Her people (the people she freed) are in danger. She lashes out to protect them because she doesn’t want those she freed to slide back into chains and that’s what the former slave masters want. Also the Sons of the Harpy have been terrorizing the people of Meereen for some time now so of course Dany wants to put an end to it. She doesn’t go through with it, of course.

In short: every time Dany threatened to burn down a city (up until Season 8) she had a reason to do it and that reason was always to protect her people. It’s also unclear if she actually meant what she was saying because she never used her dragons for oppression or against innocents. She even lock them up when Drogon killed a child. Dany also made sure to always pay a respectful amount to shepherds whenever Drogon ate their sheep.

Shut up, Cat. You don’t want the audience to think you’re mad, do you?

2. The people of King’s Landing as victims

The “The Bells” was the first time ever in the series the people of King’s Landing were victimized by the plot. I’m not excusing the killing: I’m saying that up until S8 every time the narrative focused on them was to vilify them or to make them look fickle. Let’s see:

In Season 1, they cheered for Ned Starks’s execution, demanding for his head because he’s a traitor. The audience knows Ned was right in supporting Stannis Baratheon because he was Robert’s true heir, since Cersei’s children were Jaime’s bastards;

In Season 2, they mob against Joffrey Baratheon and Cersei Lannister (although one could agree they were justified because these characters are presented as villainous) but they tried to rape Sansa Stark (who’s a prisoner and also a victim of Joffrey and Cersei);

From Seasons 3 - 6, they cheer for Margaery Tyrell (she goes to the orphanages of the capital and funds several charity works so this is understandable) and Joffrey (when in previous season they were spitting on him) – this shows the audience how changeable they are

In Season 4, Tyrion Lannister talks about the wickedness and ungratefulness of the people of King’s Landing during his trial and regrets saving them;

In Season 5, they cheer for Cersei’s walk of shame and the narrative presents Cersei as a victim of their humiliation;

In Season 7, they cheer for Ellaria and Tyene Sand, and Yara Greyjoy’s capture and imprisonment and hail Queen Cersei and Euron (two characters who are presented as villainous by the narrative)

Euron and Jaime Lannister bring the inconsistency of the people of King’s Landing during their little chat in the very same episode: Jaime remarks the same mob was spitting on his sister not long ago and yet they are now cheering for her and Euron;

And then, out of the blue, we have this narrative in Season 8: mentally instable and villainous Daenerys Targaryen burns down the capital, murdering thousands of innocent citizens

This doesn’t work and doesn’t make any sense. You can’t spend SEVEN whole seasons solidifying the people of King’s Landing as wicked, inconsistent and ignorant and then victimized them in ONE episode because it suits the plot. This episode had one of the lowest rankings ever in the series and it’s not just because Dany’s character was butchered. The narrative itself doesn’t add up with what was previously established.

3. Dany burning down King’s Landing

There was no reason whatsoever for Dany to burn down King’s Landing and kill thousands of innocent civilians. It doesn’t make sense from a military perspective and it’s illogical concerning her character. As said, every time she threatened to burn cities in past seasons she did it because she wanted to protect her people: either by wanting them to survive or to protect them from going back into slavery. Burning down King’s Landing is the complete opposite of her beliefs, and it does not fit her character or her motivations from previous seasons.

In Season 7 she specifically said she wanted to fly her dragons to the Red Keep and the Red Keep alone. She never said a word about laying waste to the entire city and there is no foreshadowing for her doing it, no matter how many nonsensical metas haters pull out of their sleeves, out of context gifs or D&D trying to justify their stupid writting options for her character.

But Season 8 was a bunch of nonsense and her character was entirely reconnected to serve this new “mad queen” plot: all her motivations suddently changed alongside with her character’s traits. Apparently protecting the people is no longer her first priority, she didn’t travel to Winterfell to protect the North but because she’s in love with Jon and the circus goes on until the bitter end.

Is this the same girl who spent years gaining the trust and love of the people of Essos!?

The purpose of this scene was to show Dany choosing fear as her method to rule over the people of Westeros and how Jon is more loved than she is. But this is such bollocks. Dany has only been to the Reach and the North, and outside the North no one knows or cares about Jon so this dialogue makes no sense. Actually, I doubt the people of the Reach fear Dany that much since she killed the Lannister soldiers who murdered countless innocents (including children) in Highgarden and terrorized farmers into giving up their crops. The majority of the people of Westeros don’t even know Dany or her motivations. The Riverlands despise both the Lannisters and the Starks because of the War of the Five Kings, and there are many Targaryen loyalists left. However, all of this was swept under the rug in the series. Dany knows she needs to earn the trust, love and respect of the people of Westeros because she has done the same in Essos, and that doesn’t happen overnight. Instead we got this. And yes, it’s stupid.

Conclusion

Dany burned down King’s Landing for three reasons:

Because D&D want to force the “mad queen” narrative down the audience throats: Dany is mentally instable, her father’s daughter, evil, a tyrant, even without any build-up;

For Jon to look heroic while killing her and have some ManPainTM afterwards;

For the Starks to be right in their xenophobic behavior because they are the heroes: “they are not xenophobes because she’s evil.”

That’s it, anon. That’s why she burned down King’s Landing in Season 8.

But does anyone take seriously a bunch of writers who kinda forgot the ringing of bells in GOT/ASOIAF lore does not mean a city is surrendering?

This scene is from Season 2, for fuck’s sake.

#daenerys targaryen #anti game of thrones season 8 #anti got season 8 #pro daenerys #pro dany #ask

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daenerys-targaryen-moved · 4 years

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Another thing that's super annoying about the GoT finale, is that we're expected to completely forget about Dany's actions in Essos or how her death will effect it. Daenerys was THE most powerful force in Essos and she ended slavery. Fine, she snapped and killed hundreds of people, fine, Jon killed her (I mean, NOT fine, but that's another issue). But the world being what it is, who wants to bet more than one fucker is gonna try to bring back slavery now that the MoD is dead? (1/?)

I mean, MAYBE the second son's army will be able to hold it back, but I'm betting not. So Jon kills Daenerys after about 4 minutes of contemplation, on a whim (not even for killing lots of people in KL but to protect his family). And no one thinks of Essos; no one is gonna point out that Daenerys death will most likely lead to the return of slavery. The persecution, enslavement, and most likely - the death, of hundreds of thousands of people. Much higher numbers than those that died in KL. (2/?)And ... we're just ... supposed to be chill with that? Nobody in Westeros cares about Essos, so why should we? The Starks behavior is arguably one of the reason Dany flipped (according to the writers themselves and several GoT actors), and they're probably the number 1 reason slavery would come back. Like ... just ... how can people be happy with this? I -- *speechless* (3/3)Lies, it's 4, sorry! Just a last add on to the previous ask --> Like, seriously, without the threat of the mother of dragons hanging over those people's heads, what's to stop slavery from returning Essos? Literally nothing. (4/4)

Oof! That’s a lot to unpack and address, but I’ll do my best!

The Starks don’t and won’t every give a shit about Essos or other people, they made that very clear. The North itself is very prejudice against the Wildlings, and pretty much any outsider that isn’t born south of the wall or white. Their treatment towards Daenerys and her army, a force that was their to help save their lives, was nothing short of disrespect and hatred. They only care about themselves, and only ever will. “I don’t need allies.” “She’s not one of us.” Sounds very familiar to “Everyone who isn’t us is an enemy.” Doesn’t it? Not to mention the ancestreal Starks and their treatment towards the Children of the Forrest, how they killed and slaughtered and burned down their trees, but yeah, we’re supposed to believe that the Starks are the purest rulers? The Starks in season 8 showed to be nothing but back stabbing “every man for themselves” morals.

In terms of Essos and the slavers..... they’ll take back their cities and re-enslave those who were freed. The thousands upon thousands of slaves she liberated will most likely go back into chains. Little boys will once again be stolen from their mothers arms, mutilated and forced to do extreme hard labor where 1/4 of them survive. Little girls will be kidnapped and used for the pleasure of men. The fighting pits will reopen for the entertainment of the rich. Every good thing she did will revert back to what it had before.Not a single person who was left in power in Westeros truly ever cared about the common people, or cared about what Daenerys accomplished over seas. Not Sam, not Brienne, not Bronn, not Bran, not Tyrion, not Sansa. None of them had the experience and morals that Daenerys had. Sure, Sansa had 2 scenes where she said that the Northern army should have leather, (wow, so smart, having leather in winter? groundbreaking) and another scene where she cared so much about the northern army (which really wasn’t any concern about the men themselves, rather that she didn’t want to have them fight for daenerys) but other than that no one in the entire series besides Jon Snow had the experience of ruling, balancing justice and peace, learning how to be a good Queen, making compromises, knows what it felt like to have people follow her and her lead them through hard times, ect. None of them had the experience Daenerys had, and the one that did share the same experience they banished beyond the wall the moment Daenerys was dead.

We’re expected to believe that a gang of second sons are going to up keep the masters at bay? We’re supposed to believe that Sansa can continue to rule the North after it’s independent? With all of the trades being cut off? We’re supposed to believe that the Northern men who flipped on Jon the second he didn’t do something they like, won’t do the same to Sansa? Once the foods go dry, once people start fleeing the North because there is no food and no profits to trade to survive? We’re supposed to believe that Grey Worm went back to Naath with the remaining unsullied? We’re supposed to believe that the Khalassar will uphold Daenerys’ order to abolish slavery? We’re supposed to believe that Jon walked out of that Throne Room with blood on his hands and the Khalassar and the Unsullied just.... let him go lmao?

Daenerys claimed all of the Dothraki as her blood riders in season six, and ancient traditions proclaim that when a khal dies, his bloodriders die with him. Most of all, the Dothraki follow strength. Ancient traditions of the Dothraki demand that a khal’s bloodriders die with him, riding the night lands by his side. When a khal is killed by an enemy, his bloodriders live only long enough to avenge him. After their last duty has been completed, the bloodriders join their khal in death. Sooo..? Did the Dothraki forget about those customs their culture has always practiced?

Tyrion convinced Jon that Daenerys wouldn’t stop, but according to the finale her armies continued to follow through on her mission to abolish slavery? So killing Daenerys really didn’t do anything in that case.

So really, truly, nothing changed at all. Every single thing Daenerys did mattered nothing in the end. The wheel isn’t broken. The wheel continued. Those who were in power in the beginning continued to have power in the end. Those who had nothing in the beginning, continued to have nothing in the end. What a waste of time, money and energy.

#anti got #long post #Anonymous

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moonflower91 · 5 years

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Dany is great but D&D destroyed her whole character in one season. She couldn't even watch two men fight and wanted to leave at the colosseum and even offered water to a crucifid man. Now she wants to burn down a city with innocents and children when there were times she looked her dragons away just because they killed one? I like Sansa but her arrogant attitude in S8 annoyed me to hell. I know she carried about the well-being of the North but without Dany they'd be already walking dead.

They rushed and wanted to make her a mad queen who's fixated about people bending the knee. She could have had Kings Landing the moment the bells rang. I didn't really mind Bran becoming the king but the "the broken" title is shit since nearly any character there has been through much more than him and him looking for Drogon made me mad. That wannabe guru should leave him alone. I hope George R.R. Martin fixes this shit. I'm glad though that Sansa is the queen of the North, she's a good one.

Okie doke, a few points

This season was rushed to fucking shit. It’s horribly, painfully obvious they were rushing and sacrificing POVs, scenes, plot lines, character development, all for the sake of time. I understand it (dragons and battle scenes and pyrotechnics gobbled up their budget) but I don’t like it

But one thing mistake that wasn’t made was the direction that Daenerys’ story took. Rushed, but not unbelievable.

Tyrion said it best “ Everywhere she goes, evil men die and we cheer her for it. And she grows more powerful and more sure that she is good and right.“

Power is a terrible corrupter. It is the ultimate corrupter. Daenerys was powerful, she did good things in Essos. However, she also destabilized Meereen, abandoned it to a sell sword piece of nothing who advised her to rule with bloody brutality, she hated the work of actual ruling, she killed nobility at random and thinks the actual culture of Meereen should be disregarded and her way of doing things should be adopted. That’s just in Meereen.

But Daenerys doesn’t see it that way. She seems to think the good she did far outweighs the consequences. The end justifies the means.

"Because I know what is good.”

Daenerys seems to think herself akin to a god. Her way is the righteous way, and everyone who opposes her, everyone who tries to stop her, is therefore evil.

And that’s how Varys’ death happened. That’s how King’s Landing happened. That’s how executing prisoners of war happened.

And her burning cities to the ground has been a thing since season 1--she was excited when Drogo promised to rape and enslave for her, she only flinched when she saw the actual destruction and pain that follows conquering. Mirri Maz Durr stealing Drogo’s soul and killing Rhaego hardened her, and made her less hesitant to take what she wanted.

Then, of course, there’s this in season 2.

Sansa’s attitude is understandable, in my opinion. Her brother and mother died to make the north independent. She suffered horrific abuse to be in Winterfell, she and Jon had to beg for the support of other houses in the North, she had to resort to that slimy pervert Littlefinger to win her home back.

Then Jon fucks off to Dragonstone for months while she’s trying to keep her people together, has to deal with her freak of a sister, has to play Littlefingers games, and Jon surrenders their home to a foreign woman! Of course she’s hurt and pissed off. Daenerys is a foreign invader, asking for things that Sansa does not want to give.

Daenerys’ importance in ending the Night King was really a lot smaller than everyone thought. All they did was fly around. she didn’t even light the trenches when she needed to.

Bran’s “broken” title is utter fuckin garbage. Bran the Wise, Bran the Winged Wolf, Bran the Skin Changer, Bran the Mender, fuckin anything would’ve been better than calling him Bran the Broken. Fuck you Tyrion.

Finally, Drogon is still a threat. He’s actually an even bigger threat now that he’s flying around completely unchecked. Drogon is a threat that needs to be dealt with. Tywin Lannister disregarded Daenerys’ dragons and we all know what happened.

This is what Drogon can do when he’s controlled by Daenerys. Imagine what horror he’s capable of now

#game of thrones #asoiaf #anti daenerys #jon snow #sansa stark #arya stark #petyr baelish #winterfell #season 7 #season 8 #king's landing #the bells #drogon #khal drogo #dragons

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hamliet · 5 years

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GOT 8.03 I Know Death

Well... I can’t lie. If the WW threat is really over, that was a wee bit of a letdown, but seriously WHAT A WAY TO GO. That was honestly one of the most brutal hours of television I’ve ever watched. I’m not surprised the true enemy is Cersei but. Sigh. Supposedly episodes 3-5 are like... one cohesive story according to the director with a beginning middle and end soooo I have questions?

Whatever. Let’s talk characters.

First of all, IS GHOST OKAY????

A moment of silence for Edd, Beric, LYANNA, and the nameless characters we still cared for. Double moments for Jorah and Theon, Amen. Lyanna did not deserve to die, but at least she took out a giant?

JORAH and THEON

The big deaths imo. If it wasn’t clear, they were always parallel characters. Their arcs both follow the same structure:

trust (Theon is like family, Jorah Dany’s most trusted/House Mormont)–>

betrayal (of the Starks for Theon for the sake of his blood family, of Dany for the sake of returning to his blood family for Jorah)–>

suffering (Reek and exile to Essos/for the Dany betrayal, greyscale)–>

redemption (saving Dany from the Dothraki, saving Sansa)–>

near-death experience (greyscale and losing Yara to Euron)–>

forgiveness (Dany welcoming Jorah, Lyanna Mormont wishing him luck; Sansa embracing Theon)–>

death saving someone they once betrayed. Jorah, saving Dany. Theon, saving Bran, the boy he lied about killing.

Not to mention they both have love stories that alas, are not to be, with Sansa for Theon (you can interpret the love however you wish) and with Dany for Jorah, though that one was unrequited romantically, it was still love.

Not to mention both of them completed “redemption(esque)” arcs, along with...

MELISANDRE

I’m not getting into this Azor Ahai stuff because the writing on that looks skeptical at best to me. Still, she was able to fulfill her desires--to save the world basically--and die in relative peace. I liked her moment of doubt in her faith before the trenches lit as well.

ARYA and BRAN

Arya is the person who, after all, has been bragging about knowing death and its many faces, who trained to become an agent of death. Her killing the NK is a way of her asserting herself as a part of the living, as a Stark, not as a faceless (wo)man. The fact that she did it protecting Bran further cements this. She is a Stark of Winterfell. She is not nor has she ever been no one.

TYRION and SANSA and MISSANDEI and GILLY

Missandei and Gilly may not have major roles, but they are parallels and if one is okay the other should be as well. Missandei’s line to Sansa was great, and I say that as a massive Sansa stan (she’s my favorite character). Dany sacrificed so much to save them all, and none of them would be alive without her.

I liked Sansa’s scenes with Tyrion as well. It was a good way to give closure to that relationship.

The scene in the crypts, though, was agonizing, but for me the true horror was long before the dead broke in, the scene when people outside were begging to be let in, and they couldn’t save them. They truly could not, and that was agonizing, but it was the right thing to do, and Sophie Turner did a great job showing the anguish on Sansa’s face. You can’t save everyone.

BRIENNE and JAIME

They saved each other, amen. And Pod is alive.

DANY and JON (and CERSEI )

Well, now the focus will likely shift back to politicking. Again, I’m not here for Mad Queen bullshit--or, er, well, there is indeed a Mad Queen: Cersei. Who didn’t appear for two whole episodes so I’m absolutely terrified.

Dany has lost Jorah, the one who has been with her since season 1, the closest thing she has to family since her husband and her baby died which is pretty traumatizing. Let’s break down how this season is challenging Dany: its methodically picking apart what she thinks she knows about herself and her family and her value. She assumed it was all on her to continue the honor and legacy of her family (the Iron Throne). Now, she has a relative still alive and will probably have another family member soon (more later). The Iron Throne isn’t hers according to the rules of succession. Everything Dany has believed about herself has been flipped now. She also just lost Viserion, who was like her child, her dragons are injured, and the Dothraki, her tie to her first husband and her dead child, the people who follow her like the free folk follow Jon, were massacred. Dany has lost a lot. I am expecting Dany to be in the lowest place we’ve ever seen her next episode. I’ve said before the Iron Throne is a coping mechanism; she’ll probably cling to it even more because she has nothing else... except Jon.

Theory time: I’m honestly guessing that Dany is pregnant, or will be in the next couple episodes to further extend the foiling with Cersei (it’s dumb AF writing if she isn’t, since that was simply foreshadowed too strongly not to happen), and I do think she’ll lose the other two dragons eventually to parallel losing her three “dragon children” with Cersei losing her three children. Does she want the Iron Throne, the childhood coping mechanism, the story Viserys used to feed her as a child to keep her going while assassins were trailing them, or does she want a family? (She wants the latter I think.) The choice will be to become Cersei or become like Sansa, to remain a child clinging to stories or to be an adult and choose her fate.

Which... again there’s inherent misogyny in that because a woman CAN have power and a family and that both Cersei and Dany are portrayed as “oh noes the danger!” is irritating, but w/e. They’re probably going to drag this “will she won’t she” out until the last couple episodes, but there’s no point to her ending up like Cersei. That being said, one thing I will say is that I reallllllly do appreciate that the women are getting the arcs.

One more thing on the deaths: I just knooow there will be people complaining about the lack of major-major deaths, but really, it’s fairly predictable that most of the MCs with arcs still need to finish said arcs. I am still betting that we’re going to have MC character deaths in the next three episodes. I do not, however, expect Bran, Sansa, Arya, Jon, or Dany to be among them. Really, I get annoyed when ppl complain about the lack of major deaths–anyone with a narrative background could have told you Catelyn, Robb, and Ned dying was inevitable because the story is about the children and specifically the cripples, the bastards, the broken things, rising up and creating a better world than the ones their fathers left for them (oh hey, Dany said that to Yara–whom I also think will survive thanks to Theon’s death). I also think Davos, Brienne, Grey Worm and Missandei, and Sam and Gilly (and Little Sam) should survive. All of these characters are characterized by loyalty and justness, just like Ned Stark was. However, unlike Ned? They’ve all been able to grow and learn to be wise with their loyalty. Game of Thrones isn’t as unpredictable as you might think; stories follow narrative structures, GOT just happens to excel at red herrings.

#theonsa #theon greyjoy #jorah mormont #got meta #game of thrones #got season 8 episode 3 #the battle of winterfell #lyanna mormont #melisandre #arya stark #night king #bran stark #sansa stark #tyrion lannister

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tatticstudio55 · 5 years

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GOT vs ASOIAF: my theory on Daenerys’s endgame in the books

It’s been a while since I posted THIS (more than a year, in fact), but back then I hadn’t read AFFC, and some of the stuff I found in the book gave me pause, because it actually corroborated what I’d said in “Clocks and dragons”:

-That the Wall was the reason behind the abnormally long seasons in Westeros, and

-That the lands beyond the Wall stood outside of time, and

-That dragons were a symbol of time.

As it turns out, Ser Arys and Arianne Martell have this discussion in A Feast for Crows:

"Have you ever seen the arms of House Toland of Ghost Hill?"

He had to think a moment. "A dragon eating its own tail?"

"The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again.

(The soiled knight, AFFC)

And in the prologue, we’ve got this:

And beyond, where the Honeywine widened into Whispering Sound, rose the Hightower, its beacon fires bright against the dawn. From where it stood atop the bluffs of Battle Island, its shadow cut the city like a sword. Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where that shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top.

Which does locate the lands beyond the Wall “outside of the clock” (i.e., outside of time), so to speak. I do suspect that the Wall will also be brought down by a dragon in the books. Thematically, it’s fitting. However, I do not expect the deed to be done by an undead dragon. Rather, Daenerys will be the one to destroy the Wall, and not by accident either. In THIS post (also an old one), I discussed Meereen as a metaphor for the land of the dead, as per greek mythology: that the city was enclosed behind “impenetrable” walls, with harpies perched on top, in the middle of a wasteland and surrounded by a dirty river (the Styx/the Skahazadhan), with people inside worshipping the god of death in the fighting pits, etc. This passage from ASOS, where Dany recall the sack of Meereen -

If a war galley could ram another ship, why not a gate? That had been her thought when she commanded the captains to drive their ships ashore. Their masts had become her battering rams, and swarms of freedmen had torn their hulls apart to build mantlets, turtles, catapults, and ladders. The sellwords had given each ram a bawdy name, and it had been the mainmast of Meraxes - formerly Joso's Prank - that had broken the eastern gate. Joso's Cock, they called it. The fighting had raged bitter and bloody for most of a day and well into the night before the wood began to splinter and Meraxes' iron figurehead, a laughing jester's face, came crashing through.

Dany had wanted to lead the attack herself, but to a man her captains said that would be madness, and her captains never agreed on anything. Instead she remained in the rear, sitting atop her silver in a long shirt of mail. She heard the city fall from half a league away, though, when the defenders' shouts of defiance changed to cries of fear. Her dragons had roared as one in that moment, filling the night with flame. The slaves are rising, she knew at once.

- could then be foreshadowing of Daenerys herself destroying the walls of a (much more literal) “land of the dead” – the lands beyond the Wall –, where dead slaves also “rise”, once her dragons are fully grown.

There’s both Doylist and watsonian explanations for Dany to destroy the Wall. There’s already the fact that she’s a dragonrider (a “bringer of time”, in a manner of speaking), and the maybe-significant foreshadowing with Meereen. More importantly, though, @oadara and @khaleesirin have written excellent metas laying out the parallels between the Others and slavery in Essos, as well as Daenerys’s own status as an “Other”. And here’s the thing: the Wall itself is an “otherizing” element. This is mostly apparent with the wildlings, and how, South of the Wall, the definition of “Others” slowly shifted from “surnatural beings made of magical ice” to “wildlings”, and how the mentality shifted from “they’re beyond the Wall because they’re Others/a threat to us” to “they’re Others and a threat to us because they’re beyond the Wall”. In-universe reasons for Dany to destroy the Wall might be 1) that she needs to get pass (to fight whatever’s beyond, I suppose, maybe even fly to the lands of Always Winter), and we now know from Fire & Blood that dragons CAN’T cross, or 2) intuitively guessing that the destruction of the Wall will awake an old magic (waking an ice dragon, perhaps? If Others are vulnerable to “frozen fire” (dragonglass), I assume that an ice dragon would make a more than fine asset against them, especially with a half Stark, half Targaryen, half ice half fire young prince around to ride it. But I digress.)

So, what if the show had given Dany’s most shocking moment to the Night King (because… he had to be given something interesting to do?), then tried to make up for it by handing some of the Night King’s traits to Dany in return?

(I know I’m linking a lot of previous posts, but it’s just all coming together right now.)

While it’s true that Daenerys destroying the Wall doesn’t necessarily mean that she won’t also destroy King’s Landing, whether of not by accident, I would personally find it redundant. Right now, I’m more inclined to impute the (eventual) destruction of King’s Landing on Dorne.

Anyway, these are my reasons to suspect that the show swapped the destruction of the Wall with the destruction of King’s Landing for Dany. But do let me know what you think, I’m curious.

#the queensguard #seriously I'll eat my shirt if bookDany does what ShowDany did in King's Landing #anti got #daenerys targaryen #pro dany #asoiaf #asoiaf speculation #ASoIaF theories

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mathiaskillmaster · 5 years

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Rebirth of the Dragon (After GOT / Daenerys Targaryen) Part 6

Westeros, Winterfell Although summer had fallen, temperatures in the independent kingdom of north had remained rather low, although the snow had disappeared to give way to the green heaths and coniferous forests rocked by the wind. In Winterfell, capital of the northern kingdom, life had resumed and gradually recovered from the terrible battle that had taken place against the Night King and his army of the dead, now a threat from the past. In the courtyard of the castle, servants and other occupants were engaged in their daily tasks, while patrol guards proceeded to their usual rounds. Standing in front of the big fireplace in her personal office, the young queen in the north, Sansa Stark, dressed in her big black dress and her warmly fur-covered shoulders, was pacing, circling, her hands behind her back, and seemed to be waiting, looking moribund. On her desk, among the many documents, was a letter whose seal, that of the hand of the king, had been broken. Sansa had read the letter sent recently by Tyrion Lannister, and what she had read there had more than disconcerted her. Daenerys Targaryen is .... alive? Just thinking about it made her shudder again. Just the idea that she can return to Winterfell on the back of her dragon to seek revenge. Despite having archers, Sansa did not know if all of Winterfell's garrison, no matter how large, would be sufficient in the face of the devastating anger of an adult dragon who had proven himself capable of destroying an entire fleet of war ships and ravaged half of King's Landing. Sansa did not know what her brother Bran was going to do about it, but knowing that her kingdom no longer depended on the king's orders, she decided to do something for her. She would not take the risk of seeing Winterfell and the north be burned to the ground if she could stop it before it happen. Returning to her desk, Sansa took her pen, dipped it in ink and began writing a missive. She had heard from her sister Arya about the existence of this sect of dreadful assassins at Braavos. ********* Essos, approaching Asshai The end of the journey was approaching for the ironborn ship which had been flying on the sea for almost a month now from Volantis. Already, the first signs of Asshai's approach were noticeable. The waters, usually of a natural blue, had gradually faded to become dark, gray and opaque. Glancing over the rail, Yara shivered. She, who had participated in many expeditions at sea, showed for the first time a little doubtful. Sometimes she could see weird fishes, phosphorescent, appearing and disappearing like ghosts under the surface. She dared not imagine what kinds of creatures could haunt these waters. A thicker mist had risen, snaking over the surface of the water like snakes of smoke. In order to avoid any risk, Yara had reduced the wing, the ship now slipping more slowly in these sinister waters of the end of the world. On the deck, the ironborn sailors had lost their proud and harsh airs, and could not prevent the doubt from expressing themselves on their faces, although the unsullied and the soldiers of the Fiery hand remain strangely calm despite the macabre atmosphere. Among the most superstitious sailors, some came to dread that the ship would reach the end of the world and fall into the great void. Others were convinced that these black, silent waters would eventually lead them into the other world. An ironborn, scared to death, swore on his head that he had heard a disembodied woman's voice whispering his name from the depths of the mist, and even felt an icy breath on his neck. The poor fellow, yet a strong fellow, was found hidden in the bottom of the hold, curled up and shaking like a scared little girl. Daenerys had been forced to stay in her cabin for a good part of the day. For several days now, she had felt more and more tired, despite the nights of rest she was able to take, and also felt, more and more regularly, some sharp pains in her stomach. She could hardly eat, but had to force herself anyway not to lose her strength. Navigating in these haunted waters did not help her much, she too, sometimes having the impression of hearing whispers calling her and hearing something like nails scratching behind the window of her cabin, whose window was now completely fogged. Two nights before, Daenerys had woken up in the middle of the night, screaming in terror so loudly that she had woken up the entire crew, and had been found by Yara and Grey Worm, trembling, tears in her eyes and sweat in her bed. Daenerys had explained to them that she had been awakened by a strange noise in her cabin, and as she opened her eyes, she had seen Jon Snow, standing at the foot of the bed, staring at her with a furious gaze. He had jumped on her, taking a dagger at his belt, blocking her on the bed by grabbing her to the throat and trying to stab her in the stomach, vociferating with a degenerate voice. _ "You should be dead! DEAD, YOU HEAR ME?!" _ "NOOOO JON, STOP! LEAVE ME!!" His voice was his own, but monstrous, and blood began to flow from his eyes, as Dany described, still in shock. She had screamed, struggled with all her strength, but after opening her eyes, Jon had disappeared without leaving any traces. Kinvara explained to Daenerys that the waters surrounding Asshai were filled with the most ancient and obscure magic, and that these forces haunting it take pleasure in tormenting sailors and adventurers daring to venture there, guessing and giving life to their the deepest fear into more than realistic illusions. As a result, Daenerys slept only during the day, and at night remained awake and in the company of a soldier from the Fiery Hand appointed by the priestess to watch over her. Although they are not talkative, she felt reassured to not be alone in her cabin. Face digged by fatigue, Daenerys was lying in bed in her white silk night dress. Kinvara was with her, the priestess sitting beside her on the bed, and examining her to make sure everything was all right. For Kinvara, there was no sign of illness or poisoning of any kind by food or water. Kinvara thought for a moment, turning her attention to Daenerys' aching belly. And if .... a hypothesis crossed her mind and she wanted to check. Delicately placing the palm of her hand on Daenerys's belly, Kinvara seemed to be examining more. Daenerys watched her, quite concerned. After long minutes, Kinvara changed her attitude, her shining irises showing a truth that had just appeared to her, and which seemed to satisfy her. _"Lady Kinvara, what's going on?" Daenerys asked her emphatically. _ "Daenerys stomrborn ...... you are pregnant." the priestess of R'hllor then revealed to her in all honesty. This news fell on the young woman like a flash, making her heart leap in her chest. _ "What ... how .... you .... are you sure and certain?" Daenerys really insisted on this, looking at her belly in turn and feeling it delicately. The priestess was formal and nodded. The young Targaryen was pregnant. Daenerys was more than confused. _ "But ... it's impossible ..." she said with conviction "... I could no longer have children, at least not be able to give birth, because of this witch ..... "and suddenly she froze, remembering to have shared her bed with a particular man, the one who before her, was brought back from the dead by the magic of R'hllor: Jon Snow, the man who had killed her. "... Jon ..." she sighed painfully, a tear pouring down one of her cheeks. "... But .... he killed me .... how can I still be pregnant?" The young fallen queen could not understand anything, but Kinvara made it her duty to explain her, taking her hands in hers. _ "This is the great power that our master has ..." explains the priestess "... his purifying fire not only brought you back, Daenerys stormborn, but also saved the life of this young soul who grows up inside your belly, for such is his will. Rejoice, your grace, that the Lord of light has given you such a miracle. A child born from the union of ice and fire." Ice and fire ..... Did she mention Jon and Daenerys through this symbolic definition? Was it true? After all, Jon had been brought back by the red god too. Jon, through this resurrection, had he been granted by the god the power to free Daenerys from her curse by unite to her? But in that case, why did Jon killed her? Was it also the plan of the red god? Once again, everything was very confusing. She wanted to rejoice, of course, she who for years had thought herself condemned to remain last and see her dynasty disappear with her. But on the other hand, the idea of carrying this child, Jon's, plunged her into a terrible melancholy, and made her relive for a few moments that awful illusion of Jon leaning over her and trying to kill her. How could she look this child in the eyes without thinking of Jon and what he had done to her? No, she dismissed this idea from her mind. It was out of the question for her to judge her future child for the crime committed by his father towards her. She would no longer act like that, she had sworn. ******** Elsewhere on the ship, Shen-zoan had isolated himself in the small corner of the hold that had chosen him to settle during the journey. Although he was offered a more comfortable place to sleep, a simple hanging hammock suited him perfectly. As he had said, after sleeping at the bottom of a well and in a wet cave in the middle of winter, this hammock was for him like the room of a palace. The Yi Ti traveler did not sleep, however. Sitting on the floor of the ship, he was leaning over a wooden box that served as a temporary table, on which he had placed a large sheet of parchment and lit with only a single candle placed beside him. Yara, after reassuring her sailors, had come down to the hold to check that everything was going well and made her way to Shen. Looking over his shoulder without saying a word, she could see the strange letters he had been writing in black ink for a while, like symbols she had never seen before. Shen looked over his shoulder and smiled at him. _"What is it?" she asked, rather intrigued. _ "Oh, that .... it's a poem from my country, in my native language .... I like to write .... it helps me to never forget where I come from." was his answer, shrouded in a touch of nostalgia in his voice. Yara sat next to him, reading the symbols one by one even though she did not understand any of them. The fine line of the pen and the perfectly asymmetrical forms of the letters were almost like art. How was he managed to write with this precision despite the slight pitching of the ship? Shen did not stop surprising. Just yesterday, during the meal, Yara and the others could see him eating with small wooden sticks, which caused the hilarity of some sailors a little morons. Despite such mockery, however, Shen remained very calm, not offended, and simply continued his meal. Daenerys did not really appreciated the mockery about the newcomer and asked Yara to seriously reprimand the men, which she did. In this new free world that would become Essos by her will, Daenerys would also advocate freedom and tolerance of cultures. As he continued to write with that delicacy and astounding precision, Yara stared at Shen's fighting stick for a moment. _ "Your way of fighting ..... how do you do it? Who taught you?" she asked. She then perceived, in Shen's expression, that she had touched a new chord of his past, but yet made him smile. Placing his pen, he decided to tell Yara some of his past. _"All my knowledge, I owe it to my master, Dzian-owan. When he was a child, Master Dzian was puny, shy, constantly persecuted by other children. He was the son of a former soldier, a very hard man, who kept on telling him that the weak had no place in this world. But Dzian refused to brandish a weapon, the idea was repugnant to him, so he decided to create his own way of fighting. At the age of 15, following the death of his father and now alone, Dzian exiled himself to the lands of the north, beyond the plains of Jogos Nhai, where he lived as an hermit. During all these years, Master Dzian developed his new art of combat, the art of fighting without giving death, spending days and nights, training in all weathers. In the wind, the rain, the snow of winter and the overwhelming heat of summer...He added to his art of combat the meditation, and he managed to do so, after spending ten days and ten nights meditating under an old willow, to the perfect union of the mastery of his art, unifying combat and concentration in one and same body, one and same soul. Then one day, while he was looking for wild grasses, he found me in a wicker basket on the edge of a river. I was still a baby, abandoned by my parents and delivered to the wilderness. Having pity, he gathered me and raised me as his own son. When I was old enough to understand, he taught me his art, imposing on me the same conditions, the same trials and the same suffering that he himself had to endure in order to form himself to face this world. He always told me: The characteristic of the warrior is humility. He must think as much about others as about himself. There are strong and weak people in this world, Shen, and it is the duty of the weakest to become stronger, to prove to them this: if you can, they can too. I swore to my master to perpetrate his art wherever I go, and to become an example to the poor. Shortly after, my venerable master died without suffering, in his sleep, carried away by his old age. After having buried him with dignity at the foot of the ancient willow, where he had spent most of his life, I began my journey around the world ..... " Yara had remained silent, having listened to everything in this story. She noticed Shen's wet eye as he recounted, reliving through his words what were the best memories of his life. Abandoned from birth, raised by a stranger who trained him to become a good person. Yara was rather touched by this story and patted the man's shoulder. _"Your master seemed to be a very good man, Shen-zoan, and a great warrior too. I would have love to know him." Yara said frankly. _ "He would appreciate you, I think." Shen replied, "he has always admired women with a strong character, just like you." Yara felt rather flattered by the compliment and both together shared a small laugh. However, Yara's face darkened, looking pensive, and Shen noticed it. _ "Something is disturbing you." _ "It's about Queen Daenerys ..." Yara said without keeping a secret for her new friend "... according to Lady Kinvara, she would be pregnant." _"Well, I do not see how that would be bad news." Shen answered without really knowing why she was showing that worried look. _ "I know ..." she said "... that's not the problem. I'm just worried about her and the baby. When those who killed her will learn that she's alive, I don't think that the life of a mere baby to be born will stop them in their attempt to eliminate her again.They will not take the risk of seeing her return to Westeros with her dragon and a new army to get revenge." Shen-zoan fully understood what Yara meant and reassured her by patting her on the back of her hand. _"We will do what it takes to protect her, because that is the oath we have spoken." _ "PORT OF ASSHAI RIGHT BEFORE!!" suddenly shouted the voice of a ironborn sailor from the deck of the ship. Alerted, Yara, followed by Shen, went back up. Daenerys, also warned by voice, came out of her cabin with Lady Kinvara, covering her shoulders with a purple silk shawl. Grey Worm has advanced to the bow to see the facts. In the misty sky, Drogon's roaring figure appeared, sliding between the clouds like a giant ghost. In front of the ship reducing her sail a little more, the opaque mists of a dark gray dissipated more and more, revealing to the eyes of all in the permanent twilight of these accursed waters and in the light of the full moon, the forms recognizable of fuzzy towers and other strange buildings, all built of black stone. Daenerys swallowed, but remained upright, her head high, while in front of her, came from the fog the legendary and mysterious city from the deep of the world, Asshai, emerging little by little from the mist like the monster coming from a horror tale. Faced with this vision seeming straight out of a nightmare, the sailors remained speechless, eyes round, and some even began to pray the drowned god to protect them. _ "Welcome to Asshai, Daenerys stormborn." proclaimed Lady Kinvara to the young dragon queen. Finally. She was there, supported by her allies and her son, ready to face the new trials of the red god.

#daenerys targaryen #queen daenerys #daenerys deserved better #kinvara #yara greyjoy #grey worm #A Song of Ice and Fire #game of thrones #resurrection #rhllor #asshai #drogon

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lastxdragon · 5 years

Note

❛ this story isn’t over yet. ❜

@itswasteland

╣❦╠ ƈօռզʊɛʀɨռɢ ֆȶօʀʍ ❧

“Isn’t it, Robb? The Night King is dead. That was our alliance and now it is over. You are King in the North and Cersei still sits the Iron Throne,” Daenerys retorted sharply, turning away from her companion, her jaw tightening. She stepped out onto the balcony overlooking Dragonstone bay where her fleet bobbed in the rolling waves, just waiting for her people to heal from their injuries. The battle with the dead had spanned the breath of the realm, right down into the Crownlands themselves before she was able to find the Night King. Exhausted and injured, Dany had flown Drogon over an ocean of Dead, burning so many, so many… setting the trees alight that hide their Master. She’d almost died battling the creature before her dark Valyrian steel Arakh pierced it’s heart after Drogon bathed them both in dragonfire.

In the long months of battle, she had learned how little the Northerners thought of her people, of herself. Their rudeness did not abate, no matter how many of her own people died to save them, and in those last moments, hearing the clatter of bones falling around her, Daenerys had known this had been her destiny. That the Iron Throne was a relic of a world long dead. She could do so much more good in Essos - free the rest of the slaves, create a New Valyria, bring more dragons to life. Long ago, her ancestor had looked to the East and seen only the old, then looked to the West and saw the future. If Aegon the Conqueror had known this horror was coming, Daenerys didn’t know, but she was certain the future of House Targaryen no longer rested in Westeros. “For months, I have been reminded of Northern independence, reminded of how little the sacrifices of my people meant here, reminded that I do not belong - so why protest my intention on leaving?”

She knew why. He needed her armies to stand up to Cersei, because now that the Dead were no longer a threat, the Royal armies had begun moving to recapture castles across the land, carefully steering clear of Dragonstone, and it was only a matter of time before they moved North to reclaim that land for the Crown. The Northerners had been decimated by the Battle of the Five Kings, then even more in the Battle of the Bastards, leaving them with only a small number to face the Dead. It was said that Cersei had 20,000 soldiers fresh and ready to fight. Daenerys army still counted over 50,000 and her dragons - all on Dragonstone Island. “You have what you wanted all along. Don’t pretend that this has anything to do with… us. You made it clear, this was a temporary alliance - nothing more.”

#wolveshonor #itswasteland #robb stark #lastxdragon #daenerys stormborn #thanks for asking!#have a little angst

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metalgearkong · 5 years

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Game of Thrones: Season 8 Thoughts & Review

5/20/19 **spoilers**

Produced by David Benioff & DB Weiss (HBO)

It took me a few years to actually begin watching Game of Thrones after it came out, but once I did, I became a die-hard fan, and even started reading the books. This series truly felt like a post-modern take on Lord of the Rings or any other high fantasy properties in the best possible way. The complex and gray morality, clever dialog, intrigue, backstabbing, dramatic character changes, and authentic production vales help make this one of the best TV shows of all time. Seeing the bad guys constantly get the upper hand on people much more honorable and virtuous has a strange addictive quality to it, I believe because it made you hunger for justice that much more.

While George R.R. Martin is still working on the 5th book in the series, show runners David Benioff and DB Weiss quite literally ran out of material to draw from. This was the slow but eventual collapse of the quality of Game of Thrones. Everyone who worked on the show should be applauded for the amazing prop, set, costume design, music, cinematography, and great acting, but it was the dialog, intrigue, and subversion that truly made the show special. Pulling dialog from the books felt like the easy part when compared to casting, acting, and everything visual and audio that goes into making the show. I was a big fan of seasons 1-6 (topped off with the epic Battle of the Bastards), but season 7 and 8 have been nearly unbearable.

From the out of character dialog and choices, to disappointing resolutions, to outright illogical plot progression, Game of Thrones seasons 7 & 8 have been felt like a jarring shift in priorities for the producers. Spectacle and special effects seem to have taken over. Now, with season 8 finally concluded, the final season of one of the most successful and popular TV shows of all time, I can give my true thoughts to how this grand series has come to a close. Unlike many reviews of this show online, I will avoid all hyperbole and exaggeration in my opinions, so as to be as honest as possible.

Season 8 didn’t truly piss me off until episode 3 with the Battle of Winterfell. The Night King, White Walkers, and army of the dead have been the big overarching threat for the entire world, ever since the show began. Part of why Jon Snow was ostracized so much is because he was one of the few people who believed in the White Walker threat. Banding together the Seven Kingdoms seemed like the point of the show, in a way that the petty squabbling, greed, and power meant nothing compared to total annihilation. I thought this conflict would have taken place at the end of the season as well, symbolizing what truly matters means much more than, quite literally, games of thrones.

But apparently not. The White Walkers and wights entirely rendered extinct with one stab of a dagger, their leader, the oh-so-built-up Night King, had no personality, no motive, no explanation, and we didn’t even get to see him properly fight. On a more thematic level, he and Jon never got a chance to spar or have a heart to heart. Jon spent the entire battle either flying around on his dragon, then being pinned down behind some rubble. Arya, who I think is a very cool and capable character, defies all logic and thematic purpose, and flies out of nowhere, delivering the killing blow to the Night King. Not only does she instantly kill him, but every White Walker and wight. Effectively, the writers got themselves out of a logistical nightmare and just proclaimed all the bad guys to be defeated at once.

I don’t necessarily mind Arya doing it, but I take huge offense to how it happened. Her entire story from the show’s inception had nothing to do with White Walkers or larger existential threats. She was all about training and getting revenge on the people who have so deeply wronged her and her family. It was Jon’s story that had everything to do with honor and being a good enough leader to gather the world together to defeat this mythical threat. From a more grounded standpoint, why also, even if Arya ran through a courtyard filled with White Walkers and leaped close enough to kill the Night King, why then when he spun around and grabbed her, did she not turn into a White Walker? We’ve seen this happen many times that the Night King simply has to touch you to instantly convert you. How cool would it have been if Arya, this epic badass, now was on the side of the enemy and had to be put down by the people she loved?

Cleaning up after the battle, Jaime hooks up with Brienne of Tarth, only to immediately leave her for Cersi. Of course, in between episodes, the entire world thought it was a trick so he could get close to Cersi and kill her, fitting with his character and who he’s become to be. But nope, turns out he truly did hit it and quit it with Brienne, and not only did Jaime go back to Cersi, they both die under the crumbling keep. This is one of the biggest character assassinations (figuratively) I’ve seen since Luke in The Last Jedi. Jaimie went from being a scumbag knight to champion of the downtrodden, only to revert back to Cersi at the last moment at the height of his redemption. This season has so many idiotic moments I can’t even remember them all.

I actually don’t mind at all with the direction Daenerys’ character went. I felt it was always going to be her fate as a Targaryan and daughter of the Mad King to massacre people in her conquest for the throne. After she fights her whole life for what she wants and feels she is entitled to, Daenerys finds out she isn’t even the true heir, and that Jon is. The extra frustrating part for her, is that Jon doesn’t even want the throne, and now practically everyone knows she doesn’t have the right to be Queen. On top of all of it, Jon doesn’t even want to sleep with her, knowing she is his aunt, but she doesn’t care, as that’s never really stopped Targaryans before (and in fact I think most of the time they aim to keep their bloodline as pure as possible). All of this lead to her snapping and burning King’s Landing. I get it, and I think its a fitting arch for her character.

I also fully expected Jon to kill Dany someday because she would grow too power hungry. The death itself was underwhelming, but why in god’s name did Drogon not then kill Jon? The Dothraki and Unsullied would have never let Jon live after doing that. And then after everything he’s gone through: resurrection, uniting kingdoms, becoming warden of the north, realizing he’s a Targaryan, he’s sent back to the Wall (and by his own brother!) And I suppose Arya is just Columbus now, sailing west until she hits the back side of Essos. The show wrapped up far more neatly and happy than I ever expected, and it makes me want to finish reading the books to see how the events “truly” happened.

I wont say it’s all bad. I was quite physically on the edge of my seat for every minute of this season. It had my full attention and engagement despite constantly subverting my expectations in the worst possible ways. The season did have some highlights and some stand-out moments, but not nearly of the same ratio as it used to. One of my favorite moments of all Game of Thrones was in the final episode when Tyrion describes stores as what turly brings people together, not war or banners or violence. And as he said this, I recalled all the friendships made or that have been evolved, not only because of Game of Thrones, but other TV shows, movies, video games, and so on. It felt like something right out of George R.R. Martin’s philosophy and I loved that message. But you’re only as good as your final performance and unfortunately Game of Thrones ended on an epic slow death. I love the show for so many reasons but it makes me less inclined to go back and watch it again knowing what it all accumulated to.

5/10

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ragnarssons · 5 years

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Why is sansa wanting Northern independence such a bad thing? She could have gone at it at differently but she did talk to dany and Jon abt it straight up and they declined her. Why is she the only character not allowed to have wants and desires??

I was all supporting her until she decided that stabbing a member of her own family in the back was “a means to an end”. Jon asked her to keep his secret. He made her promise. You know who else did? Lyanna fucking Stark, begging her brother to protect her son. Jon! And Ned protected his nephew/”son” with his life, going so far as being hated (in some aspects) by his own wife and mocked by half the country because “uwu Ned Stark has a bastard!” He didn’t care about his reputation or his power or how people viewed him, he knew his family was more important than that. Sansa stans seem to ignore than on s7, Daenerys was advised not to go around in Westeros, like riding on horses and all, because as a Targaryen, related to the Mad King - both things that Jon ARE too! - her life was in danger. Because you never know: there still are Baratheon loyalists or even anti Targaryen people, whatever. Sansa - or the writers, idk? - is literally ignoring her brother’s safety, exposing him as a Targaryen to more and more people every minute. Don’t get me started on “well technically it’s Tyrion who snitched!” no it’s Sansa, and D&D say so themselves: she told Tyrion KNOWING he’d tell other people. Jon’s safety in all of that? Seems she didn’t give a fuck! Don’t get me started on her creating discourse around Daenerys and her advisors and Daenerys and Jon (her ALLY) at THAT MOMENT. Why now? Okay she doesn’t want Daenerys on the Throne, but if Daenerys dies before she gets to defeat Cersei, Jon has NO WAY to get to the Throne. He has no army, he has no political ally (outside of Varys but does he have a House?) the Unsullied, Dorne, Yara, the Dothraki, heck even the Second Sons who are basically the only force left, are loyal to Daenerys. The GC has more chances to rally to Daenerys than they’d ever do to Jon- why? Well because they’re from Essos! Who was in Essos being famous up there? Well Daenerys and no one else! So yeah he has his bro Tormund who is literally on the other side of the country, the Knights of the Vale who are??? Nowhere to be seen? Okay the Northerners follow him but they’re basically not enough against the GC. Not to mention that Jon has no dragon. If Dany loses, Jon dies, because he’s literally in King’s Landing, right there, with her. And do you have ANY IDEA (does Sansa?) of what will happen if Cersei learns about Jon’s parentage? I mean, on top of it all, he’s Lyanna’s son. You know, it’s not like Tywin Lannister got Elia Martell butchered because Rhaegar DARED to marry her and not his daughter Cersei. It’s not like the Lannisters can’t be THAT petty. So how is it smart to weaken Daenerys NOW? Also don’t get me started on the xenophobic-root of it all. Why does Sansa want the Northern Independance? Oh well because she doesn’t trust anyone! Fair! She doesn’t even trust someone who’s had half her army butchered and two of her dragons killed for her family/the war of the dawn. She doesn’t even trust someone who came forward with her, admitted “their weakness” (Dany loving Jon) straight forward to her. Sansa is literally exploiting Jon’s love for Daenerys rn to get to her goal, but I guess that’s morally okay because “she should be able to want thiiiings!!!” Want to talk about straight up? Guess what, she never came “straight up” to Jon about the Northern independance, they never talked about it, only about Jon giving up his crown. In fact, Sansa only voiced WHY she wants an Independant North to Daenerys: BECAUSE Daenerys was the one coming to talk to her, not the other way around. Before that, Sansa’s plan was just to act silently petty and full of disdain and that’s it. Had Sansa made ANY EFFORT to try and talk with Dany about it - other than with sheer animosity like in that scene - and Dany would have been like “it’s not even a question!” or whatever, I would have understood Sansa’s plotting better. But no, she never ONCE tried the “honest” road, literally talking to the Queen who was right there, she just plotted behind her back.Yara did it the honest way; she came, she was like “hey you need boats! I’ll give you boats and you help me with my home, okay??” and everything went FINE. How could Sansa not do that? Especially towards someone her brother LOVES! Whether or not Sansa thinks it’s “smart” out of Jon to love someone, he still does! Doesn’t she think killing the woman he loves and breaking his heart for a metal chair will DESTROY their relationship and her family?? And now, she’s plotting as far as planning to have her murdered, all that for HER goals (because jon. does not. want. the throne!). Jon getting the Throne would serve Sansa and all the people who are counting on the oppoprtunity of manipulating Jon’s ass once he’s king (*cough* Varys). All that because Sansa is so paranoid, so sure she’s “right” that she doesn’t even think about any other possibility. Heck, is it really paranoia? Because we literally have David Nutter saying it’s about jealousy and power! Imagine that? Sansa betraying her brother to gain power. That’s literally like Cersei killing Margaery right in front of Tommen’s nose. Even when his brother loves that woman, even when it puts her brother’s life in danger, even when Daenerys never even did anything to appear as an enemy to Sansa. Sansa has a roof over her head rn, because of Daenerys’ army: and her saying “we’ll never forget them!” about men she doesn’t even know to try and sound “thankful” was the fakest shit she’s ever said (she literally forgot about them already and whatever; the Unsullied, the Dothraki, they followed Dany out of love and loyalty, and the Starks are like “we wuv these people who died for the north but FUCK THEIR QUEEN!”). Like?? Do you even stop two seconds to evaluate the shittiness of all of this? The Starks are basically saying “we’re glad we had all this meat to protect our walls but now we don’t care about the woman who came to help us, we want her gone/dead!” WTF?? The Starks? Thinking like this??! It’d be like them throwing Theon’s body in a ditch, saying “welp he helped us but whATEVER!”. No, they somehow honored him. Because “he’s one of them” or whatever bullshit way of thinking they have now. Daenerys didn’t even gain a little bit of their respect, trust or anything, after all she did? Well!I wouldn’t be that mad if I were anti-Sansa. I’m so disappointed in what they did of her because Sansa is meant to be better than that! She’s NOT Littlefinger, she’s NOT Cersei, even tho she learnt from them. Sansa’s kindness of heart was ALWAYS what guided her journey - in the books at least and tbh in the show up until s5 where everything went to shit. I’m disappointed in people being blinded by fucking ships, ignoring what horrible writing this is. I don’t want Sansa to seem like a villain, and at least I thought she’d NEVER betray her brother. She did tho, and the fact that d&d and nutter are confirming that it’s nothing but to grab power gets me… what the fuck. I have a problem with Sansa not caring about human life when she’s thinking about her goals: because that’s NOT canon Sansa. That’s not book!Sansa. That’s not Ned Stark’s - I will not have a young girl butchered because my King sees her as a threat - daughter. She can want whatever she wants, but there are ways of doing things, stomping on other people isn’t a good way to get to your goals. If y’all need that lesson in life: here, take it, it’s free. (to be clear, I’m mad at Sansa like I was mad at Bellamy after ep 5x09, Bellamy wanting to save his friends wasn’t inherently bad, of course. His way of doing things tho, betraying clarke - his canonically best friend who thought died for him like 4 days ago - and using a - HER child - child as a pawn to do so? NOP! Sansa wanting to be free and safe isn’t bad, of course not! But betraying her brother and distrusting - to the point of wanting to kill! - a woman who has never done anything to harm her? NOP!)

#answered #anonymous

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maddie-grove · 5 years

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Who I Think Will Live and Die on Game of Thrones

(Posting this before anyone major dies.)

Dead

Dany: dies heroically and self-sacrificially in battle against the White Walkers. It’s going to be iffy but not downright awful, gender-politics-wise. I wouldn’t be shocked if she survived instead or even went on to rule Westeros, but she’s definitely losing her dragons.

Jon: also going to die heroically and self-sacrificially in battle against the White Walkers, most likely by Dany’s side. I feel strongly that he is done for, primarily because he has run out of suitable female sex partners and the show’s not gonna let him fall in love with a dude. Not that he needs a love interest to live, but I feel like the show would’ve given him one if he were meant to survive. Also, he already died, and I feel like it might be a The Dead Zone/Final Destination situation where he realizes he’s living on borrowed time because He Was Supposed to Die.

Tyrion: dies heroically after saying something sardonic. It’ll be very A Tale of Two Cities, but sort of rushed and unearned because the show no longer knows what to do with the man. I wouldn’t be shocked if he survives and marries Sansa, but that’s a long shot.

Cersei: dies, but I’m really torn on how. The valonqar prophecy hasn’t appeared on the show, but they might bring it in last minute. If they do, she either gets killed by Jaime (for justifiable reasons, like she’s trying to blow up some more shit or holding a knife to an innocent third party’s throat) or Euron (for personal gain, like he did with his own older sibling). If they don’t bring in the valonqar, I think she quietly kills herself (poisoned wine?) once she realizes the White Walkers are a legit threat and she gambled wrong. I hope that they don’t bring in the valonqar, though, because the optics of the Jaime scenario are unfortunate and Euron is too boring on the show to kill such a powerhouse. (Side note: I don’t think she’s pregnant.)

Theon: dies heroically while shooting dragonglass arrows at the White Walkers, an episode or two before Dany/Jon/Tyrion meet their fates. Someone gives a nice speech--I hope it’s Sansa. (I very much want him to live and build that promised statue of Sansa on the shores of Pyke, but I’m preparing myself for the worst.)

Melisandre: passes the ominous-immortal torch to Bran and decides to stop living because she’s like 200 now.

Jorah: killed by White Walkers mid-season, much to Dany’s grief.

Tormund: killed by White Walkers earlier than Jorah to wring some tears out of the audience without affecting the plot too much.

Euron: killed by White Walkers, like a chump. Theon’s kind of on a roll, though, so he might take out his uncle if he has sufficient motive and opportunity; I just have my doubts, given that their biggest point of conflict (Yara) seems to be safe and sound.

Gregor Clegane: quickly killed by Sandor during a mid-season skirmish against Cersei’s faction. Sandor shrugs afterwards, saying it doesn’t matter whether Gregor was actually “in there” anymore. It’s not clear whether he means it.

Qyburn: killed in the same skirmish. Whatever.

Alive

Sansa: rules the North, a strong, independent woman who don’t need no man but has the love of her people. She could end up with Tyrion, but I’m not getting major vibes there. Pod would be a decent last-minute love interest, though, if the show decided to go there.

Arya: heartbroken over Jon’s death, but ultimately rides off into the sunset with Gendry.

Bran: I don’t like that I’m saying this, but I think he has sex with Melisandre and she helps him turn into an immortal (or reveals that he’s been immortal for a while now). He bids his siblings a serene goodbye and moves north of what used to be the Wall to do elder god stuff.

Jaime: weathers the confrontation with Bran, the possible murder of Cersei, and the war with the White Walkers to end up with Brienne (who’s the only reason I think he’s not doomed). He almost dies and is very tired at the end, though.

Brienne: acquits herself excellently in battle, admits her love for Jaime on what seems to be his deathbed, and marries him upon his recovery.

Sam: lives happily ever after with Gilly and starts writing a history book so people will remember what happened and learn from the past.

Gilly: lives happily ever after with Sam and Little Sam. Continues to improve her reading skillz.

Varys: returns to Essos. Has a nice moment with Tyrion before his departure (or, if Tyrion dies, before Tyrion’s death).

Gendry: rides into the sunset with Arya.

Davos: is generally a gruffly kind, comforting influence after the war. He never remembers that he’s married.

Sandor: settles down into an honest life and remains friends (ish) with the Brotherhood without Banners.

Bronn: does the right thing and doesn’t act on Cersei’s assassination orders, because that would be stupid. He continues to amass gold and fuck around.

Missandei: chooses to settle in Westeros with Grey Worm despite Westeros decidedly not deserving them. Heartbroken over Dany’s death, needless to say.

Grey Worm: lives happily ever after with Missandei.

Pod: stays alive and sweet, but doesn’t do much else unless he and Sansa have sex (to symbolize Healing and Rebirth). I think a fling is more likely than marriage, but either is a longs shot.

Yara: has sailed off into the sunset to rule the Iron Islands until a ripe old age, as far as I’m concerned. I’m just worried she won’t get to live her best lesbian life.

#got for ts #game of thrones #this is not what i want #i want sansa and theon to get married but the world isn't ready

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blindestspot · 6 years

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No Bastard Ever Won a War by Dying for His Country

Over the past year I've gotten a lot of asks about Jon and what I think is going on with him. During that time I've also managed to calm down about the inconsistent number of redshirts during the Wight Hunt. Yes, I remember that this was a thing that happened, along with a bunch of other dei ex machina, like Cersei's brilliant strategies for everything, Jon's repeated, increasingly dumb survivals and the whole Winterfell plot.

But calming down about them meant that I could think about Game of Thrones again in a manner that kind of naively assumes that the work is coherent . That 2+2=4, not 5, or orange, or a tiger. And this is what I think is going on with Jon and why it is so crucial to the whole work.

George R.R. Martin once said that A Song of Ice and Fire is supposed to have a bittersweet ending. Now that phrase covers a lot of ground. A bittersweet ending might be just ASOIAF's Scouring of the Shire (which at this stage is assured) and a few good guys passing into the Great Beyond (also nearly certain) – which would be a copy of Lord of the Rings.

A bittersweet ending might also be Davos, Brienne and Sam emerging alone from the rubble like the unhappy winners of a Battle Royale. A few good guys surviving would technically make the ending not a complete downer and thus "bittersweet".

However, a more nuanced look at a bittersweet ending should look beyond mere survival and destruction but at an ending that irrevocably changes the characters and how and what we think of them.

An issue that strikes readers as unrealistic about Lord of the Rings is that a lot of its human and hobbit-y heroes move on from the events of the story into psychologically very ordinary, uncomplicated lives that they would have lead even without the events of the story. Sam, Merry, Pippin's (and to a lesser degree Faramir, Aragorn and Eowyn's) easy passing into normalcy feels vaguely hollow.

If GRRM really plans to have a realistic take on Lord of the Rings and its "bittersweet" ending (and with his complaints about Aragorn's tax policy it appears that this is a crucial element of ASOIAF), then obviously he is going to continue what he has been doing all along and create an interplay between narrative events and characterization. Take Arya, for example. In the early parts of AGoT she would have not wanted to become a Faceless Man – for obvious reasons. But Arya from a few books later, after events have matured and traumatized her, wants to become one. And that choice will again impact her characterization and that will in turn impact future events.  It is logical that this interplay will continue right up until the end. So speculation has to take into account that these characters are dynamic and can be pushed by events into new directions. And not just "can" – but will be.

The question is not who will be alive to experience the Scoured Shire but who they will be at this point. And that change shouldn't just be cosmetic or physical, it needs to be psychological, visible, noticeable and profound. We shouldn't get an Aragorn who just walks into a kingship after a two battles, marries the cute elf girl and then doesn't have a tax plan.

And obviously, I am not talking about Gilly. I am very much talking about ASOIAF's Aragorn. I am talking about Jon.

...

Now here is a hypothetical scenario for Season 8: Jon with the help of Dany and her dragons (and, to paraphrase Roger Ebert, the usual stock characters who fight every fictional war for us, even those in space), fight the White Walkers, win, then fight Cersei, then win (the order of this is might be reversed) and then Jon's revealed to be true heir and has to rebuild Westeros.

How does any of this really change and mature Jon as a character? How does being right about everything (the White Walkers being the real threat), then leading a righteous force to victory over evil make him a realistic take on Aragorn?

It doesn't. 

What Jon needs after five books and seven season of making serviceable to great, sensible, ethical, right strategic choices (with admittedly a number of great tactical errors in between) is being wrong. And not just being wrong about failing to communicate to his sworn brothers what his strategy is, not just wrong about going on that Wight Hunt, not just wrong to send Sam away, not just lightly ethically challenged for exchanging a pair of babies against one mother's will or misleading his love interest on his commitment to her political cause... but wrong in a truly profound way that the audience cannot blame on stupidity or short-sightedness.

I admit that calling it "wrong" or even "profoundly wrong" is a bit of misnomer. What I am trying to get at is the character going into a direction where the audience cannot and should not easily follow. Those actions would be too alien as might be their rationalizations. These actions should strike the audience as questionable, reprehensible, immoral, unethical, or dishonorable.

A perhaps too perfect example of such an action is Cersei firing up the Sept. It's mass murder and it's intended by her to be mass murder. If anyone in the audience found it not reprehensible and immoral, I would have some questions for these people.

But Cersei firing up the Sept was a success. Her survival was at stake - and she survived. Before her kingdom was full of powerful enemies and afterwards it wasn't. And she even snatched the Iron Throne afterwards despite having no royal Targaryen or Baratheon ancestry.

In realpolitik terms, Cersei made the "right" choice. All other choices would have lead to her death. The first rule of anything is that you cannot do anything if you're dead.

And frankly, that's a lesson Jon desperately needs to learn. His twice-tried strategy of rushing alone against an army of his enemies is idiotic. It might be honorable for a war leader to be the first person on the battlefield but it's not a winning war strategy.

It's not a nice thing to say, but it's necessary for a war time general or commander to be willing to have other people die for him and his goal. And not just for him but in front of him, literally shielding him. An army commander who isn't willing to ensure his own survival, is gambling with such terrible odds that he has already lost the war.

Cersei's strategy of killing her enemies instead of allowing herself to be killed is profoundly wrong, immoral and yet Jon needs understand that when mankind's survival are at stake an immoral action like that might be a necessary choice.

His attempt to drown in an ice lake alone is a sign that at this point he hasn't understood the necessity of being alive to lead a war at all. As George S. Patton put it: "no poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb son-of-a-bitching bastard die for his country."

Out of all our main protagonists, Jon has never been willing to play as dirty as it should be necessary for an apocalyptic fight such as his. Unlike Sansa's willingness to go along with Littlefinger's nefarious plans for her cousin in the Vale, Arya's willingness to kill potentially innocent people for the Faceless Men, Tyrion raping a prostitute and killing Shae, the torture of innocents during Dany’s Slavers’s Bay arc, Bran warging Hodor... Jon has nothing in his arc that is as dark, dishonorable or questionable as these things. Jon appears to be a character class apart, like the hero of a more classic fantasy epic.

Is this because Jon's so special that his arc is a whole different genre or is this because he hasn't leveled up in realpolitik yet?

Or is there perhaps even a third option to deal with his relative over-the-top good guy characterization?

***

You know, when it comes to stories about morality like Game of Thrones a crucial factor for their success is not just the quality of the good guys but also the quality of the villains.

And what makes a compelling villain?

IMO, they hit more than one of these characteristics:

1. They are well-rounded, fully realized characters, drawn with the same care as the heroes.

2. They are able to win against the good guys. They are not a cardboard that will be blown over once the heroes wave a magic stick or sword around.

3. Their evil deeds get an emotional reaction out of the audience. (Most audiences tend to have a vague discomfort with CGI mass carnage while reacting to a well-executed scene of high school bullying with actual empathy or even horror.)

4. Their motivations are understandable, perhaps even sympathetic. At best they are a well-intentioned extremist, utilitarianism gone wrong, rather than setting stuff on fire because their mom was mean to them once.

Now looking at this list, it becomes obvious that GOT has a problem with its current crop of villains. Any of the three that are left (Cersei, the Night King, Euron) could be the Final Boss – to use a video game term. But none of them are very compelling villains. Two of them are inhuman monsters. To call their characterization shallow would be an insult to puddles.

And Cersei, the only one with a decent characterization (and some past Mean Girls bullying sins of her own) suffers from being incredibly stupid in the books, having a prophecy running against her and stealing Aegon from Essos' story in the show. In other words, Cersei's chances of success and survival and actually making it this far in the books are as good as that of a snowflake on a hot summer's day. One suspects that she is a show-only final-ish villain, so if one looks for GRRM’s final-ish villains, they would not find Cersei.

Talking about chances of success – the Night King isn’t winning this either. Because then ASOIAF would reveal itself to be a nihilistic mess in which all the human storylines were nothing but shaggydog stories. So the Night King is bound to melt in the summer sun along with Cersei. There is little question about it. And is Euron "was he even mentioned in the first book?" Greyjoy really going to win the Iron Throne in the end? Is anyone taking this possibility seriously?

And what are their motivations? Ambition, being evil and being anti-human. None of them are particularly sympathetic.

In one word, GOT's current crop of villains is not particularly exciting – especially if you compare them with some of the villains that came before them. And if one of these three is the Final Boss, he or she is gonna be lame.

But a lame Final Boss is actually a great tradition in the genre. In Lord of the Rings Sauron appears to be literally two-dimensional and about as interesting as a character. (Gollum gets to be the well-written villain and he is doing very little damage to the world at large.) Voldemort in Harry Potter is completely outshone as the most despised, scary villain of the series by the one-book-wonder Dolores Umbridge who excels at committing low-key evil deeds that make every reader/viewer wince in sympathy. The Emperor in the original Star Wars trilogy is... there and then dead and has fewer fans than a one-line bounty hunter. And the same fans that endlessly shout "Han shot first", don't even appear to care that he got a complete face replacement in the Special Editions. And if there is one consistent complaint about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it's that its villains tend to be boring and forgettable. Yet they're lame and forgettable to the tune of billions of box office dollars.

So a lame Final Boss for the heroes to fight... that is indeed a thing. And that might be just the thing GOT/ASOIAF is doing. This is what we have to seriously consider. We are likely to get a MCU villain... you know on the level of Ronan the Destroyer or Malekith, the Dark Elf. And you probably need to google in which movies those two turned up.

That would be a terrible let down.

Or maybe it's not actually that terrible of a thing? Because if our final boss and villain is not Cersei, the Night King, or Euron, it's a good guy gone bad. Someone who is currently fighting on the side of the living before becoming someone who needs to be fought.

It's possible that this is in the cards. After "Ozymandias", the penultimate episode of Breaking Bad, aired, GRRM wrote on his blog that "Walter White is a bigger monster than anyone in Westeros, I need to do something about that."

The thing is that White appeared to start out as a sympathetic if flawed hero you were rooting for even as he was making meth. What made White monstrous is not doing depraved psycho shit beyond comprehension (like nailing a living, pregnant woman to a ship like Euron Greyjoy) but that he appears to evolve into this monster before the audience's eyes.

Breaking Bad tricks the audience into liking a character for much longer than he ever deserved and that becomes crystal clear in that penultimate episode. If GRRM wants a monster like White he can't use his old, repetitive trick of making a one-dimensional psychopath do depraved stuff. He has to logically progress a character we root for into a monster.

(Of course, GRRM might also not be able to pull it off, however much he wants to. It could be that he has not prepared the ground to make a main character go Walter White and thus it will always fall short of Breaking Bad's accomplishment. Sure, Greyworm or Dolorous Edd could become evil and monstrous but even GRRM should know that's not quite the same as making your main protagonist evil.

I might also be wrong on GRRM understanding what makes Walter White feel so monstrous. The first big sign that White took the road down to hell is not an act of murder or sadism but simply not helping someone who is choking to death. His monstrosity is based in a three-dimensional characterization, not in particularly outrageous acts of evil. He is monstrous because he used to be likable. If GRRM doesn't see that, he might actually think that one-dimensional psychopath Euron nailing his pregnant girlfriend to a ship is nailing the same kind of monstrosity.

He also could be talking about a plot point we now know about but that he has not published yet – like Stannis burning Shireen. So one should be careful looking for ASOIAF's Walter White.)

Interestingly enough, the trick Breaking Bad is pulling is quite old. White isn't making meth by chance, it was the worst thing his creator could think of besides him becoming an arms dealer. The twist of Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias" is actually not that White becomes bad but that he has always been bad. You'll find a similar character in Humbert Humbert in Nabokov's Lolita where his monstrosity is barely a plot twist and even Milton's Paradise Lost where it's none at all. (The trope of the protagonist being a piece of shit throughout the whole story usually goes down as "villain protagonist" and the list of stories containing one is pretty expansive.) But the plot twist of a surprise villain protagonist is such an old one that Aesop already codified it in his fable "The Farmer and the Viper" around 600 B.C. (Farmer helps harmless looking viper, then viper bites him because it's a viper. And has been a viper all along. Duh.)

Now if Dany, for example, turned into a villain then she would fall squarely into villain protagonist territory. But the fun thing is that doesn't mean that she is already one. The viper is not a villain until Aesop has it biting the farmer. If Dany decides to slaughter her future subjects by the thousands just so she can have the Iron Throne (and this is portrayed as despicable) then this will be in line with the Dany from the first season/AGoT who wanted the Dothraki to wage their type of warfare (pillaging, raping, enslaving, killing) onto thousands of her future subjects, so she could have the Iron Throne. But that doesn't mean that Dany will cross this particular moral event horizon.

Whether Dany will turn out to be a villain protagonist is not a question of foreshadowing. It's a question whether the authorial intent will will it into existence. The viper is a poisonous snake but if the author hasn't it biting the farmer, that poison doesn't matter at all.

Now Dany is a well-rounded character (same as Cersei) and might be difficult to defeat but her most likely, hypothetical, evil deed (mass carnage via dragon) is not particularly compelling and neither is ambition as her motivation. Villainous Dany is about as compelling as Cersei. Keeping Cersei for so long when there is Villainous Dany in the wings strikes me as a weak narrative choice: “Meet your new villain, same as the old villain...” The difference would be the element of surprise but that's a paltry surprise, especially since Villainous Dany was supposed to be The Big Plot Twist.

Honestly, Dany as the mass-carnage causing, ambitious type of villain is a low-hanging fruit. Call me edgy, but it's just nowhere near "Ozymandias". It's Boromir getting seduced by the Ring.

And there are not a lot of precedents for that storyline in ASOIAF. You know the story of a good guy gone beyond redemption evil. There is Theon, whose ambition, jealousy and insecurity drove him into sacking Winterfell and killing two children – but even he turned out to be not to be beyond redemption. There is Catelyn, but she goes crazy and becomes a zombie, so it's hard to compare.

But there is, of course, the most compelling, interesting and meaningful character arc of a good guy gone bad: Stannis Baratheon. But he isn’t a good precedent for a mass-carnage causing, ambitious type of villain.

***

You see, Stannis starts out as not exactly the most sympathetic character: he burns people and places of worship, he is a religious nut, he has his brother killed. But after getting defeating at the Battle of Blackwater, his arc does a 180. He gets the call from the North to save the realm, and out of all of the five Kings involved in the war of the same name, he is the only one he realizes that in order to "win the realm, you have to save the realm."

That isn't a coincidence. Stannis is also the only king who fights for a higher purpose. Joffrey, Balon, Robb, and Renly just fight for power (be it the power over all of Westeros or the power that lies in independence). Stannis is fighting not just for power but also for his religion, for his one true god; he is fighting a crusade. That out of all the kings, the king who believes that his religion will save Westeros ends up wanting to save it from a supernatural threat is not a coincidence. One thing clearly causes the other.

And once he makes this choice, Stannis, the Mannis (as he was lovingly called by his fans once upon a time) always fights the bad guys, he fights for the living. Of course, he doesn't stop being a religious nut, he doesn't stop burning people, he is inflexible in his beliefs, he still thinks he is the chosen one, he is Azor Ahai, he is the One True King, he belongs on the Iron Throne. But he is also the man who executes soldiers of his army who rape. He has good sides. But what weighs so heavily in his favor is that out of all the people in power in Westeros, he is fighting the bad guys.

And that matters – until it doesn't when Stannis strikes out to fight the Boltons. The Boltons are special because they are despicable without exceptions. Even the Freys have Robb's squire in their midst to have that one decent family member/bannerman that all of Westeros' notable houses appear to have. All but the Boltons anyway. There is not a good or decent living Bolton. They are the literal worst Westeros has to offer.

And yet, Stannis manages to cross a moral event horizon that makes everyone forget that he is doing it to fight the Worst. And that moral event horizon is not the sacking of a city, the killing of hundred of thousands. He is not extinguishing a house or a people. He manages it, doing something every single GOT character could do right now (save for little Sam.) He kills a single person.

And he doesn't come back from that. Like a proper Ozymandias, his hubris, his pretension to predestined, prophecied greatness is followed by his inevitable decline. Killing Shireen has Stannis losing his real world fans and his in-story followers, his wife, his fight, his priestess, his army, his purpose and consequently his life. He proves very quickly that not all ends justify all means. He is the living embodiment of the Friedrich Nietzsche quotation that "those who fight monsters should take care that in the process they do not become monsters themselves."

Stannis' final turn into villainy is actually paralleled by something another character does in ASOIAF. Except he is not a character we meet; he is a story-within-a-story; a legend, a prophecy or both. He is who Stannis thought he was: he is Azor Ahai.

And Azor Ahai absolutely does what Stannis did to turn into a villain, a monster: he murders... sacrifices an innocent to forge Lightbringer to end the Long Night. The way the story gets told makes that murder necessary, but Azor Ahai as the hero and winner of the Long Night gets to tell that story, gets to tell history his way. It's a legend and of course Azor Ahai is its hero. But remember the first person who claimed that "only death can pay for life" was a liar who wanted to make sure that "The Stallion Who Mounts the World" died in the womb. (The second was Melisandre who tends to be wrong on a lot of things and whose track record on human sacrifice is abysmal.)

So there is absolutely a chance that Nissa Nissa's death was as necessary as Shireen's. We won't get the opportunity to fact-check the legend, the ancient history. But if it's a prophecy we might see its reality.

Of course, if GOT really goes the way of making a good guy go bad, then they can do this the middling way, the mediocre way. Theon's Sack of Winterfell Redux or Catelyn's descent into madness and murder. Or by making Dany a villain protagonist who is basically just another Cersei with dragons. And despite not quite measuring up to Stannis' dark turn – ambition, grief, fear, insecurity, jealousy, vanity, or disappointment leading to mass carnage delivered onto a hundred-thousand computer-generated extras is still more interesting than the Night King Sauron with his ice dragon.

But the reality is that we don't care about the 100,000 inhabitants of King's Landing. We will cry over a single Hot Pie before ever giving a fuck about a massive number of fictional people without any characteristics. Mass carnage is easy to oppose morally because it's something we oppose in real life but emotionally there is no difference between 10 fictional people or a billion fictional people – if they are simply there to be nameless, featureless cannon fodder. The ability to cause mass carnage doesn't make you the most emotionally effective villain by default. Quite the opposite.

If Bran were to warg a dragon and set King's Landing on fire, we would get that this whole Three-Eyed Raven thing didn't work out well for his ethics and be, like, "okay". If Bran set fire to Arya, he would immediately become the most hated character ever on GOT. (And that isn't an exaggeration for effect). And any good intentions regarding defeating evil would matter as much as the fight against the Boltons did once Shireen started screaming.

I would like to add that Stannis died pretty much immediately after killing Shireen, blown over like a cardboard once Brienne showed up. But who would defeat or want to defeat a Stannis, an Azor Ahai who succeeded at ending the Long Night?

The ultimate story subversion when it comes to the classic "good vs. evil" plot is that the bad guy wins.

And wouldn't that be something if it was surprise villain protagonist? We get someone winning that we would have been okay with winning until they turned into GOT's least liked character? Wouldn't that be bittersweet? Getting who you were okay with, perhaps even wanted on the Iron Throne, who might even know which is the right tax plan and what to do with baby orcs... except they suck now?

Now who could that true Azor Ahai possibly be?

Is there someone who has been fighting monsters longer than anyone else has? Who has been so corrupted by that fight that he has tried and sacrificed already everything he could and had to defeat them? A man on quasi-religious crusade? A man who has the sort of righteous hubris and single-minded focus on the White Walkers that makes him often deaf to good advice? Who who has already laid down his life for a chance... and even a "no-chance-at-all-now-let-me-drown-in-an-ice-lake" at defeating the Night King? Is this possibly the same guy who we think is going to be crucial to the defeat of the White Walkers? The one who has the perfect bloodline to claim the Iron Throne in the end? The one who is shown to Melisandre when she looks for her prophecied chosen one in the fire? The one who appears to be the straight hero of the story, the Luke Skywalker, the only major character where pulling a Stannis would actually shock us? The one who has never been "profoundly wrong"?

I am not saying, we are getting "Aegon, the Worst of His Name". I am saying that if I wanted to create a villain who subverts all expectations while fulfilling them, a villain who is truly compelling and whose turn emotionally wrecks the audience, I would not make it happen by having Daenerys or Bran roast King's Landing. I simply would choose a more likable and successful version of Stannis and have him doing something terrible, wrongfully believing it's the right thing to do.

Now theoretically this could be anyone but little Sam. And regardless of that character's identity, they would be a great, compelling villain. Practically though, the best candidate for going off that particular deep end is not some random second tier character. And it's not Daenerys "What Even Are White Walkers?" or Bran "I'm a robotic, omniscient plot device now the Three-Eyed Raven now" Stark either.

It's Jon.

***

There is an issue with this though. Stannis murdering a family member/sacrificing a child for their royal blood to win a battle was simply a continuation of Stannis' previous actions. Stannis had no issue with his wife's uncle being burned as a sacrifice to R'hllor, had his brother murdered to win a battle, and attempted to have his underage nephew (Edric Storm in the books, Gendry in the show) sacrificed for his royal blood.

Killing Shireen is Stannis taking this to its logical extreme. Everything he does is simply something he has done before. Except this time the audience isn't given an out: Shireen doesn't escape like Edric/Gendry, we care for her (unlike Alester Florent) and she isn't Stannis' opponent in battle (Renly).

What Stannis is doing, is not surprising or entirely unprecedented. It is ultimately just a darker twist on something he has done before. Which is weird because you would think that something that crosses a moral event horizon would be a real departure from his previous actions. But it's not and that is really crucial if we want to discuss Stannis 2.0.

If a good character goes bad then having them simply do something they've done before – except this time it's just too much – makes sense. Just like the road to hell is paved with good intentions, escalating villainy should be a slippery slope of ever indefensible bad deeds.

And this is why it makes no sense to look at Jon and wonder who he is going to burn at the stake for R'hllor – because he won't. What he would do to incur the audience's disdain needs to be something he has kind of done before. And that he has done on the show before, because it stands to reason that the show would want to keep its foreshadowing. (Hence Gendry's slightly pointless kidnapping by Melisandre in the show.)

So the the baby swap is out since it didn't happen on the show. Breaking a vow is a bit too generic and on its lonesome will not evoke any emotional reaction. And making high-handed, impulsive decisions that end up with terrible consequences has been already done with Jon making a series of high-handed, badly thought through decisions that netted the Night King a dragon and destroyed the Wall and yet netted Jon no audience disdain at all. So probably not that one either.

That leaves his relationship with Ygritte. In the books, we only see this relationship from Jon's point of view with all his justifications and inner struggles and his self-knowledge that while he lies about his allegiance to the Wildlings' cause, his feelings for Ygritte are real.

Now if one imagines that relationship from Ygritte's point of view (as she is in the books), Jon would come out of that as a supreme douchebag. He lead her on, lied to her, pretended to have feelings for her, then left her, publicly humiliated her and finally participated in a battle with her on the other side. Jon doesn't kill her but he is willing to do so by fighting her.

Now a real neutral point of view that doesn't vilify Ygritte to prop up Jon as a cool dude (as the show has done with her allying herself with cannibals and the village massacre), would be more of a wash, ethically speaking. Jon lies to Ygritte but his life is at stake and it wasn't even his own idea in the first place. There are consent issues with their relationship and Ygritte is as willing to kill Jon when she participates in that battle as it's the case the other way around.

But then Stannis wasn't that unjustified to go after Renly who was willing to fight and kill him in battle after all. Killing Renly nearly rates as self-defense. And Edric Storm got away. The question is not how horrible Jon's actions towards Ygritte were. But rather what the escalation of that sort of overall action would be like.

Now due to time constraints the only relationship where Jon could pull an escalated "Ygritte" is his relationship with Daenerys. And here I am kind of puzzled by the discourse around the idea. Because as passionately as people argue about it, they actually agree quite fundamentally: that Jon is doing it/not doing because he is the quintessential good guy.

That he either betrays his lover or the plutocratic will of his nation is disregarded as some sort of higher purpose collateral that doesn't at all reflect on his moral character.

But isn't Occam's Razor to the question of how a "good guy" manages to betray either lover or nation simply to question the "good guy" part?

But let's step back a bit. The theory that Jon is playing Dany proposes that Jon initiates this emotional manipulation because she wonders aloud about two things (while he wants her commitment on the fight against the White Walkers): 1. Her ability to achieve her overall strategic goal of winning the Iron Throne 2. What happens to her rear if she pulls all of her forces north.

Now, Jon never actually answers any of these questions (or any questions on how to get the Northern Lords to remain loyal to him and Dany) and that is a bit problematic. Because the second question of what happens in a war if you leave one side open to your enemies is an enormously important one.

What Jon appears to do, is rely on a truism about the North: that it cannot be conquered in Winter (and Winter is here.)

*beleaguered sigh*

This truism exists in our world about two countries. One is considered unconquerable in Winter, the other unconquerable in general. And while these truisms have held true for few centuries now, the reality is that attempts to conquer them have devastated both countries on more than one occasion to the sound of millions of dead inhabitants and bombing it to the bottom of the HDI.

If Jon relies on Winter to protect him and his allies from Cersei, he is an idiot. If Cersei attacks the unprotected North from the South, his ability to fight the White Walkers will be profoundly diminished even if Cersei fails at conquering the North itself. Dany is right to ask this question and he is wrong to ignore it.

And if that theory pans out and Jon took these strategic, legitimate concerns as a sign that he needs to loverboy it up instead of thinking how to protect the North from the South, then that's next level mansplaining.

But forget that point for a bit and go back to the situation in which Jon supposedly initiates it. He is recovering after the Wight Hunt and Dany swears to avenge her dragon while musing on her overall strategy of winning Westeros. And while Jon isn't in good shape, he is not in mortal danger. Not in general, not specifically by Dany. She is letting her hair down and she's pledging her support to his cause.

Jon's life is not the least on the line and the question whether Dany would or would not have pulled out of the war against the White Walkers if Jon hadn't started flirting with her in that moment is an unanswerable hypothetical. No matter how you slice or dice it, it's not certain at all (not to the audience, not to Jon) that she would have pulled out.

So Jon had three choices in this moment: not initiate a romantic relationship with Dany, initiate a romantic relationship out of genuine feeling, initiate a romantic relationship to manipulate her.

None of these choices would spell certain doom. It's not at all like the relationship with Ygritte, where not going along with it would have blown his cover and cost his life. It's also distinct from that situation insofar as he didn't choose to go undercover with the Wildlings in the first place but was commanded into the situation by his superior officer.

If Jon initiated the relationship to manipulate Dany, he chose to do this voluntarily without true necessity. It's, in fact, as necessary as Littlefinger manipulating Lysa into intrigue, murder and ill-fated marriage was. Of course, without that manipulation Littlefinger would have never advanced at court and become Master of the Coin, Lord of Harrenhall and Sweetrobin's guardian. But none of these things were necessary to grant his survival at any time.

The key difference between Jon and Littlefinger is that Jon allies himself with Dany to ensure mankind's survival instead of personal gain. But on the balance, another difference between Littlefinger and Jon's situation is that the romantic relationship wasn't necessary to ensure Dany's support. In fact, even the idea that Dany's concerns are sign of her wavering in her commitment is a minority if not fringe opinion among GOT's audience.

And that makes the idea of Jon manipulating Dany very unpalatable. The lack of necessity makes him a Littlefinger, rather than a Robb or a Ned or even the Jon who lied to Ygritte. And audiences prefer to see their heroes as honorable fools rather than manipulative, emotionally abusive jerks.

Because there is the heart of the problem. If Jon is truly manipulating Dany, he is an emotionally abusive jerk. He is profoundly wrong. He is the guy that your BFF has warned you about. "He is just using you for [something.]"

And that hits home in a way shadowbabies and Frey Pies and Qyburn doesn't. We don't know any necromancers who vivisect people. But we know the kind of jerk that Jon would be. It's not theoretical, it's something we know and because of that will not appreciate.

***

But while this absolutely checks off “make the evil deed painful to the audience” point in the “compelling villain” check list, it’s still nowhere near as ethically questionable as Stannis burning Shireen.

But Jon's Ygritte storyline doesn't end with him duping, betraying and leaving her. It ends with her getting killed. And not just killed, but killed in battle against Jon and his brothers. While Jon is not directly responsible for her death – he neither instigated nor executed the killing – he was willing to risk that his actions would kill her in that battle. The goal of a battle is to win and to use the Patton quote from above "make the other bastard die for his country." Of course, Jon acted in self-defense, Ygritte was fighting that battle against him and the NW voluntarily, fully willing, ready and able to kill him.

But then, to go back to Stannis, Stannis was also just acting in self-defense when he send the shadowbaby assassin to kill Renly. Renly had the superior force and showed himself fully willing, ready and able to kill Stannis in battle. The question whether Stannis' assassination of Renly is justified is a digression too far because that is not the point. The point is that Jon and Stannis got some person killed who was really close to them (brother, lover) and that was kind of, maybe, perhaps justified self-defense. You can argue for it in both cases.

However, as I mentioned before, Stannis' ultimate escalation of Renly's murder is killing Shireen. There is no maybe, perhaps, kind of, about the lack of justification for it. Stannis did not act in self-defense, Stannis was not provoked. The true necessity was also absent... although the proof for that is just hindsight. The sacrifice was supposed to save Stannis and his army. It did not. Thus it was never necessary. The whole thing is just wholly indefensible.

Now would an escalation of Jon's Ygritte storyline limit itself to the affair and betrayal or would it go all the way down to that self-defensive arrow that Jon wasn't directly responsible for? Except for a Stannis-like escalation that arrow could not be self-defensive, it would have to be undeserved, unjustified, unnecessary and Jon's responsibility.

The audience doesn't even have to like Dany at that point. That would be just crossing all moral event horizons, turning Jon into a villain and serving a "King Arthur Aragorn Jon Snow is the final villain" plot twist that makes R+L=J look like child's play in comparison. It would be truly an epic twist, ending up in the plot twist pantheon next to "Bruce is a ghost" and "Soylent Green".

However, I don't think this is gonna happen. A villain protagonist on that level would have been foreshadowed much, much more, both in the books and the show. "The villain wins" is also really nihilistic and ends up on a quite bitter note with very little sweetness. Davos, Brienne and Sam emerging alone from the rubble would be a more positive and happier ending. It's also the sort of plot twist you think of five books and seven TV seasons later (too late), not when you conceive the story.

So what will happen to Jon instead if he doesn't become a villain?

There are really only two options: his characterization remains in a class of its own and he remains the only truly good guy protagonist or he takes a level in realpolitik and starts to play as dirty as necessary in whatever way. Not quite Jon, the villain but Jon the ethically challenged, Jon the Utilitarian.

(By the way, I am not saying that he has to play dirty with specific characters to qualify, just that that he has to play dirty somehow. In fact, playing dirty with certain characters might evoke a negative, emotional audience reaction that is not in proportion to the ethics violation it presents and thus the whole Utilitarianism bit might accidentally devolve into perceived villainy.)

The really fascinating bit about this is that Jon's characterization will define ASOIAF quite significantly. Jon is so crucial to the story's most fundamental conflict, that even if you discard the idea that he is The Protagonist, you would still have to agree that he is one of the most important protagonists. His characterization will contribute and lead to the resolution of that conflict. If he resolves it by playing dirty, the moral of the story will quite different than it is if he resolves it by always taking the heroic, high road.

And it's not just the moral of the story. Once the story decides to land on "Jon, the moral" or "Jon, the Utilitarian", the question whether we are consuming "Lord of the Rings with boobs" or a true deconstruction of Lord of the Rings will answer itself. And that will reflect on more than just Jon's storyline. If Jon stays heroic, Night King Sauron, our final, two-dimensional villain and other neat and flat resolutions become much more likely.

As such I would argue that the Jon’s characterization will define how good ASOIAF's famed realism truly is, what ideals it propagates, and what kind of story ASOIAF is.

I honestly can't predict how this will play out. But I remember that Ned and the Red Wedding promised a deconstruction of the genre, an acknowledgement that taking the high road constantly can be a dead end in real life. Jon not needing to be smarter than them in the end would break that promise.

#A Song of Ice and Fire #Jon Snow #Aegon Targaryen #ASoIaF #meta #Game of Thrones

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jzeeeeeeeee · 5 years

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Game of Thrones 8.06 Series Finale Recap and Review

THE NIGHT IS DARK AND FULL OF SPOILERS

This should be kind of obvious but I'll be discussing the final episode of Game of Thrones here so if you're not caught up don't read this unless you want to be spoiled!

CITY OF ASHES

Tyrion walks us into the episode, literally, walking through the ashes of King's Landing, closely followed by Jon and Davos. Ash is everywhere, still raining down, floating in the air like snow. I can only imagine the smell, if the scent from piles of burning dead outside Winterfell was bad this must be a thousand times worse considering they've always said how bad the city smelled to begin with... The horror on Tyrion's face is evident and surely echoes our own, as he walks by dead children and a near-naked burnt man stumbling out of the ruined city looking truly shellshocked. Tyrion tells Jon he wants to go on alone and heads for the destroyed Red Keep. Jon and co. run into Grey Worm and the Unsullied sentencing some Lannister soldiers to death in Dani's name and under her orders. Jon tries to tell Grey Worm that the war is over and the enemy soldiers are prisoners now, pleading for their lives. But the overwhelming loss must have had a hollowing effect on Grey Worm, emptying him of every last fuck he had to give. It almost comes to blood between Grey Worm/the Unsullied and Jon/random Northmen but Davos intercedes, quickly urging Jon to go speak with Dani directly. As Jon walks away, Grey Worm goes back to slitting throats of Lannister men like it's nothing, as if to show Jon how truly empty his fuck-tank was.

Back to Tyrion, walking around the remains of the Red Keep. He follows the steps down just like he told Jaime and sees the gigantic mountain of rubble covering the exit he had described. He starts digging through the rubble and finds jaime's gold hand. Digging further he uncovers both his siblings, dead on each other's arms. The music is haunting, a slow violin rendition of Rains of Castamere. This scene was picture perfect in it's tragedy, the bricks washing all color out of the scene save for the Lannisters. I might not have liked the way Cersei's end came or Jaime's middle finger to his redemption arc but seeing Tyrion kneeling there crying over them definitely gave me the feels.

PLAZA OF PRIDE

Arya walks past dead bodies and ruins out into the square in front of the Red Keep where the mysterious remaining half of the Dothraki are riding around on their horses, cheering and raising their arakhs in the air. We switch to follow Jon who's walking past the Dothraki and Unsullied towards massive, imposing steps of what is apparently left of the Red Keep. It makes me think of the Mayan Temple of the Sun, draped with a truly ginormous Targaryen banner. Jon looks at Grey Worm when he gets to the top of the stairs like "this is not handicap accessible". Just kidding, Jon looks at Grey Worm like he's gone as bonkers as his Queen. Dani and Drogon come flying in overhead and land somewhere behind the ruined Keep. Drogon's wings behind Dani stretch out and fold as she comes walking into the foreground. The sight is truly amazing and I've watched that part alone a hundred times. This is a powerful leader with men fiercely loyal to her returning victorious, no longer that little girl in Essos constantly on the run from assassins. There's a nice juxtaposition of the Unsullied lined up with precision thumping their spears in perfect unison, while the Dothraki are in a frenzy behind their orderly rows, practically doing wheelies on their horses as Dani delivers her victory speech.

Ok let's just stop and appreciate this character for a minute. Let's just imagine going through what she went through, it truly must feel like destiny, step by step bringer her closer to madness, all that power she has. She has a huge dragon that is closely bonded to her, she's the Unburnt not just a Khaleesi, not just a Queen. She's conquered before, and liberated before. When a character is too OP you just know they can't last... Remember the speech she gave when she named the entire khalasar her bloodriders? These men watched her walk out of fire, TWICE, unharmed. Who wouldn't kneel? They must think her a goddess! Grey Worm is devoted utterly because he was freed by Dani and he controls the Unsullied. The naming as Master of War, a great boon to him I'm sure, leader of ALL her forces now. He's still covered in the blood of dead Lannister soldiers as he steps forward to accept the nomination.

Danaerys speaks passionately, fervently as any champion of fire would. I could practically see flames dancing in her eyes as she talks of liberating the people of King's Landing. The show told me she's going crazy so I guess she must be. Jon's eyes when she starts talking about liberating the entire world... But it seems Tyrion agrees with me and in a fit of pique and anguish he casts off his Hand of the Queen pin to the ground. Dani commands the guards to take Tyrion and he locks eyes with Jon as he's walked off, with this "Your girl done gone nuts bro" face.

Arya catches up with Jon on the steps, urging him to see that Dani is a killer and he's in danger from her since she knows his true heritage. I like how he's surprised to see her, asking for its the audience what she's doing there in the first place. He doesn't even question the fact she came to kill Cersei and walks off to go find Tyrion's cell.

BROKEN THINGS

Jon and Tyrion discuss what happened and Jon can't deny what Dani did was wrong but he's trying to justify it by naming all the things she lost along the way to madness. Tyrion reiterates what Arya was saying, that Jon's life is at risk because of his claim to the throne. Jon actually rolls his eyes before sitting down to take it all in. It seems like Tyron admits he had feelings for Dani here, saying he loved her though not as successfully as Jon did. He walks Jon by the hand to the idea that she's the biggest threat to the people, especially his sisters. He lays a choice at Jon's feet, knowing that only Jon has the chance to bring this to an end.

Jon leaves to go find Dani in the Keep. Drogon is stretched outside like the largest cat ever, briefly getting up to see who's disturbing his rest but let's Jon go by without even a puff of smoke. Dani's walking through the ruined throne room, stretching out her hand to the Iron Throne she's sought after for all these years, touching the arm briefly. The ruins of the throne room and the snow-like ash in the air are the payoff from the vision she had in Qaarth's House of the Undying. She's contemplative, making a meta comment about the throne being made of a thousand blades from Aegon's fallen enemies. This is a sort of dig because the throne GRRM had described and imagined was more like the one she does here. Jon comes in to rain on her parade, angry about the Unsullied executing Lannister soldiers along with the thousands of dead and burned children outside. He seems to be giving her one last chance, begging with her to see reason. As she says her final words about building a new world and breaking the wheel I'm heartbroken because I know what's coming next without anyone telling me. "Be with me. Build the new world with me. This is our reason, since you were a little boy with a bastard's name and I was a little girl that couldn't count to 20. We do it together. We break the wheel together." He kisses her passionately this time, "You are my Queen, now and always", not breaking away like he did at Winterfell and Dragonstone, and I know the instant the knife goes in her heart he's sobbing and so am I. It's like she had plot armor her entire life... until today.

THE IRON THRONE

Jon lays Dani's body down on the ground and suddenly Drogon's there, sensing something wrong with his mother. He nudges her with his head but she's gone, and the sadness that pours out of him is an echo of my own seeing her tragic story at an end. This girl had been on this path since her birth, freeing slaves, serving justice to those who deserved it and I'm supposed to believe right at the end she decides to kill all the innocent people she came to save. Ok fine I'll go along with it for now since we're on mega fast forward this season and maybe I just missed all the subtle steps on the way to Dani's madness. Back to Drogon... He's so full of anguish he let's out a few huge bursts of fire, melting the Iron Throne down to slag. The scene was awesome in the true meaning of the word but I'm a little confused why Drogon would understand the meaning of such an act. And why didn't Jon move out of the way more? He has a weird thing with facing dragons I guess, maybe he planned on yelling at Drogon like he did to his brother. The scene ends after Drogon snatches up Dani's body in one claw and flies away, never to be seen again.

Tyrion awakes, finding his buddy Grey Worm at the door. He's led out to the Dragonpit where the Lords and Ladies of Westeros (🤷) are waiting. I have no idea what kind of time has passed but guessing from Tyrion's hair it's been a few weeks since Dani's death. Sansa demands to know where Jon is but Grey Worm insists they are in control of the city and it's prisoners. Sansa doubles down letting him know King's Landing is surrounded by Northmen. Yara makes some threat about Jon getting killed by the Unsullied but Arya comes right back at her saying she'll slit her throat lol. I think it's right around here everything becomes a bit hokey to me. After some back and forth with Grey Worm about the fate of Jon Snow, Tyrion suggests they choose a king or queen (who will ultimately be in charge of that fate). That Tully dude, Lord of the Riverlands gets up to make a speech (maybe to make a play as king?) but Sansa shoots him down by asking him to just sit, be a good boy, and drink his bottled water. Sam suggests a type of democracy system where everyone gets a say and they all just laugh at him. Just like everyone imagined, Tyrion reveals Jon is the heir to the Throne and they all live happily ever after. Wait no, actually he walks around and talks about how stories hold the world together and Bran should be King. What in the ever-loving fuck? Who has a better story than a man who came back from the dead only to find he was not a bastard at all but the heir to the Iron Throne????!!! Ok I get that he killed Dani so that's a stain on his honor but he did it to save the whole damn world. He didn't want to rule but neither did Bran! Tyrion proposes kingship to Bran in a way that sounds like a marriage proposal from the realm. Then Bran shows more emotion than he has in the past 2 seasons, he smiled a little and says "Why do you think I came all this way?" Huh? Well I had thought it was to help defeat the Night King and the White Walkers but fine I'll go along with that too I guess... I thought for a hot second he'd say "I am Groot". Sansa declares independence for the North after we get a round of "ayes" from all the other Westerosi Lords and Ladies in favor of Bran the Broken as king. I face palm but on my 3rd or 4th rewatch I see that Tyrion's cleverness did shine through one last time. He knew that giving Jon to the Unsullied would mean more war, knew Jon didn't want the throne anyway, knew that the puzzle needed solving and I suppose he did it. Jon would go to the Wall and serve a life sentence in the Night's Watch as a compromise, apparently to keep everyone from getting what they want. We see Tyrion meet briefly with Jon to explain this and he's as baffled as I am there's even a Night's Watch left. What are they watching? Season one?

A DREAM OF SPRING

Another time jump of unknown proportions and Jon is getting on a boat, headed for the Wall. He sees Grey Worm on another ship about to set sail for Naath where I can only assume he'll die from butterfly poison trying to protect Missandei's people. As Jon rounds a corner he sees Bran, Arya and Sansa are there to see him off. Hugs all around, Sansa apologizes to Jon and I can't help but think it's forced, Arya will sail West of Westeros. When Jon kneels in front of Bran saying, "Your Grace" I'm still wondering what his Targ ancestry had to do with anything and why Bran thought it was so important for him to know. The last of the Starks are going to go on their separate paths again, but hey they won the Game.

We next get a cute scene of Brienne writing Jaime's deeds in the White Book, meaning she's the Lord Commander now. This part is uber meme-able, particularly when she makes faces trying to think of good deeds to write. After a few creative truths she closes the book without writing anything about how he saved the people of King's Landing from being burned alive with wildfire. This scene also shows us Bran the Broken has taken a raven for his sigil, it's now prominent on Brienne's Kingsguard armor.

We go next back to Tyrion, the Keep mended enough to have a small council meeting in the old spot he's meticulously rearranging the chairs. Sam, now Grandmaester, brings in a book called a Song of Ice and Fire, very Hobbit of him, setting it in front of Tyrion. The rest of the small council files in, Bronn as Lord of Highgarden and Master of Coin, Davos as Master of Ships, and Brienne the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Bran is wheeled in just for a minute so we can hear they're missing a few officers and see Sir Podrick is in charge of pushing his chair around now, making an ambiguous comment about finding Drogon just before leaving the running of the kingdom to the council (please give me a sequel of just that!). The scene ends with Tyrion starting his famous jackass/brothel joke but we never get the punchline.

NORTH OF THE WALL

Jon arrives at the Wall, which has been repaired with wooden gates. Then the most well-done cutting of scenes together happens as we bounce between Arya getting ready for her journey west, Jon's arrival and subsequent leaving of the Wall, and Sansa's coronation as Queen of the North. We see Jon moving through the wildlings and finally, FINALLY, he pets Ghost. Arya's on a ship with a huge Stark wolf on the sails. Sansa is at Winterfell newly crowned. It all ends kind of how it started, with Jon on his horse walking north into the woods, wildlings on foot following him into the future. The scene evokes a sense of adventure unknown and reminds me of the first scenes from the pilot where we first saw the wights and Walkers in action but instead of death it's life moving through these woods now.

UPS AND DOWNS

So my main reason for breaking this all down was because I've been asked over and over what I thought of this episode. Many of you know I'm passionate about this show and even now that's it's over I'm sure I'll rewatch it many, many times again, season by season. In fact, this will probably be the first blog entry I have in "Watching Thrones Backwards; maybe it makes more sense this way?"

That being said I feel like this ending was really perfect for what they set out to do. A show based on a book series is always difficult, and Thrones lost access to the written word once the show moved past the books. I've read every single book and felt that more character development could've been done here in Seasons 7 and 8, both of which would've been better with more episodes. It felt rushed without those extra moments this story deserved but instead we got what we got. And what we got in the last episode was amazing for this series, beautifully produced, imagery leaps and bounds ahead of anything else on television, well-acted, even if not always well-written.

The biggest criticism I have was that the dive into Dani's madness was too abrupt, and such a huge deviation from her character. But her last words will haunt me for all of time. "We will break the wheel together." And they did. Jon's act was a sacrifice for both of them and gave rise to the new system of electing leaders.

Time was also my enemy in this episode, I know that it opens pretty soon after the last one because there's still fires burning but as we go through it I felt less and less certain where we were on the timeline. At the Dragonpit scene Robin Aryn was much taller, does that mean years have gone by or mere weeks? Years of Unsullied occupancy in King's Landing doesn't make sense to me but ok whatever. And at the end stuff was kind of fixed like in the Red Keep and at the wall so that must've been years certainly! But Sansa was just getting crowned so did they really wait all that time to do it? I guess I'll need to wait for GRRM to help me clear that up, hopefully in my lifetime.

My other problem was that everything was getting tied up with pretty little bows, basically going down the list and checking off all the weird bets people were making online. I could've easily told you Arya would head west of Westeros, Sam would name that book a Song of Ice and Fire, and that Tyrion would never finish his joke on screen. I say "was" though because I'd rather have all these things tied up neatly than a lot of wtf moments. We had enough of those watching this series, and this being the last episode it truly was "bittersweet" so seeing storylines get sewn shut was much nicer after I had time to really think about it all. I'm over a dozen times through this episode now and it's held up amazingly well to rewatch.

Even with all the negative criticism I absolutely loved this episode. Each scene in this final episode looked incredible, Jaime and Cersei dead in each other's arms, the dragon wings behind Dani at the Keep, Drogon melting the Throne, even Jon walking off into the woods at the end. Cinematically it was successful, thematically maybe a little less so. But it made sense in a way the Dexter or Lost finales never will. Dany succeeded in the end with breaking the wheel - Shakespearean tragedy at its finest, Tyrion is for all intents and purposes ruling as Hand, Arya stopped killing everyone, Sansa's a queen in her own right, Bran is probably warging into Drogon somewhere off screen flying about and Jon pet Ghost. Team Stark FTW I give it a solid 9 out of 10!

*Picture credits to HBO Game of Thrones*

#game of thrones #got season finale #got season 8 #got #gray worm #danaerys stormborn #danaerys targaryen #jon snow #sansa stark #arya stark #brandon stark #tyrion lannister #hbo

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