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wisteria-lodge · 10 months

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SORTING DISNEY LADIES (1995-1998)

Part 1 - Disney Ladies 1937-1985

Part 2 - Disney Ladies 1988-1993

I’m going in chronological order, and doing both A Squad and B Squad, because I’m interested in tracking how the ideal “disney girl” has changed in the past 85 years (right now I’m only looking at the human-shaped heroines of Disney animated theatrical releases) A more detailed break-down of the system I’m using is right here, but the basics are these:

PRIMARY (ie MOTIVE)

BADGER ~ Loyal to the group.

SNAKE ~ Loyal to yourself and your Important People.

LION ~ Subconscious Idealist. Ideals are linked to feelings and instincts.

BIRD ~ Conscious Idealist. Ideals are linked to built systems and external facts.

SECONDARY (ie METHOD)

BADGER ~ Connect with the group. Make allies, work steadily and well. Be whatever the situation calls for. If you find a locked door, knock.

SNAKE ~ Connect with the environment. Notice things. Tell people what they want to hear. If you find a locked door, get in through the window.

BIRD ~ Collect skills, tools, knowledge, personas, useful friends. If you find a locked door, track down the key or learn to pick the lock.

LION ~ Be honest, be direct, speak your truth. Either the obstacle is going down or you are. If you find a locked door, kick it in.

POCAHONTAS (1995)

(& John Smith)

Pocahontas is an incredibly loud Lion Primary. Marrying Kocoum is the good choice, the responsible choice, the right choice - she knows this - but she just can’t do it. It feels wrong. She “goes wherever the wind takes her,” accompanied by the swirling leaves that are a kind of physical manifestation of her primary, since they match up so perfectly with the compass. (Classic Lion primary metaphor - see also Jack Sparrow.) When Pocahontas doesn’t know what to do she dreams of the confusing “spinning arrow,” but when she does... that arrow points straight in one direction and she just goes. She “listens with her heart” to the degree that it gives her superpowers.

It’s tempting to say she’s a Lion secondary too. She enjoys whitewater rafting and BASE jumping, which I guess are activities stereotypically associated with Lion secondaries. Also, the climax of the movie does involve her physically flinging herself across John Smith’s body. BUT her big song (“Colors of the Wind”) is just so, so, SO Bird secondary. John Smith isn’t getting it, and so Pocahontas’ response is - let me explain my worldview, show you, you clearly don’t have all the information. She’s a problem-solving Bird. Pocahontas’ first instinct when the English arrive is to investigate from the shadows, with two animal sidekicks that represent Curiosity and Caution. (Which is perfect, because is that not what a Bird secondary is? Observe, assess, plan.) Pocahontas is also convinced that there must be some perfect way of explaining her situation to the rest of her tribe that will make them get it. In her eyes, the problem is again that they don’t have all the information. This is almost a Bird secondary compulsion.

As for John Smith, well. His arc is about shifting his definition of “Person” to include everyone he categorized as “savages” early in the film. That’s very Badger primary character development, and John Smith is very Badger primary. He loves being part of a group, he loves his men, and the fact that he doesn’t really belong anywhere bothers him. The implication is that he keeps going to all these “New Worlds” trying to find one where he fits. It’s a cool bit of costume design that he’s the only one in Spanish armor - like maybe he did a similar trip with the Spanish conquistadors a few years ago. And it’s gutsy that his ‘I want’ song (“Mine”) is literally a duet with the villain. Like, sure John Smith and Governor Ratcliffe don’t like each other, but they start off with pretty similar politics.

I like that at the end John isn’t accepted into the Powhatan tribe or something. He finds personal peace by redefining his own community, and gaining a broader perspective on the world. HE is absolutely a Lion secondary though: really straightforward, cannot lie, and always solves problems by throwing himself physically at them. Pocahontas only does that the once, after her Bird secondary strategy - trying to reason people around to her point of view - didn’t work.

ESMERALDA (1996)

(& Quasimodo, Claude Frollo, Phoebus)

At first Esmeralda seems like she might also be a Lion primary. She’s the revolutionary, she stands up on platforms and yells things like “Justice!” Even through all the adaptational changes, the Victor Hugo soul of the story is still very much there, and he loves a Lion primary. But… that’s not really where Esmeralda is coming from. She cut Quasimodo’s bonds very specifically to try and change the vibe of the room - “Letting the crowd torture that poor boy? I thought if one person could stand up to him…” And that’s a Badger primary motive. Esmeralda has deep roots in her outsider community, and being separate from them (trapped in the cathedral) is very, very bad for her.

But then she brings Notre Dame itself into her community. Esmeralda goes up to the statue of Mary, the cathedral's patron, and says, “Still I see your face and wonder / if you were once an outcast too.” Once she does that, the ‘outcast’ bellringer of Notre Dame and even the building itself start fighting for her. It’s important that Esmeralda’s ‘I want’ song has nothing up to do with her at all. “God Help the Outcasts” is about helping her community - the outcasts. We get lines like “I ask for nothing, I can get by / for I know so many less lucky than I” which are all about Badger primary need-basing. Esmeralda consistently goes to whoever needs her help the most, doesn’t matter if she knows them or not. And her way of helping Quasi is to give him a map of the city that brings him straight to her Community.

It’s nice to pair this very understanding, inclusive Badger primary with basically a Jack Sparrow secondary. Esmeralda likes disguises. She likes improvising weapons. She improvises her escapes, and comes up with stuff as she goes along. She also has a lot of faces that are all equally her. She is the sexy pole dancer. She is also the grounded, spiritual earth mother, and when her primary requires it, she’s the revolutionary too.

If you put the weird tonal mismatch that is the gargoyles to one side, this film has a really elegant little structure. There are three men who are in love with Esmeralda: Quasimodo, Claude Frollo and Phoebus. And it’s subtly done, but Quasi and Frollo both dehumanize her - Frollo by only seeing her sexy side and deciding she’s a demon temptress, and Quasi by only seeing her more motherly side and deciding she’s an angel. I always thought it was interesting that “Heaven’s Light” and “Hellfire” - Quasi and Frollo’s songs about Esmeralda - are back to back, with similar titles, even the same track on the soundtrack. They’re almost a duet, and I think it’s a way of showing that there are two ways to make someone inhuman. (In a movie that is SO interested in the idea of what makes someone inhuman.) And then Phoebus just sees Esmeralda as… this cool chick, with a great sense of humor and some sweet moves, who he’d like to get to know better. Of course she goes with him.

Frollo, Phoebus and Quasi are ALL Lion secondaries (no wonder they butt heads.) It’s harder to tell with Quasi, because his secondary is so ridiculously Burnt, and only wakes up once his Snake primary finds something to latch onto that isn’t Frollo… which takes him most of the movie. Phoebus has a very straightforward Paragon Lion primary that seems to match up with Esmeralda’s Badger, and Frollo, oh man. Frollo has the most twisted Bird primary imaginable. He has a belief system that is impossible to live up to, so - instead of maybe questioning that - he blames Esmeralda? Or he blames God? for making Esmeralda too tempting for him to resist? and so therefore it’s not his fault? He’s a Bird Primary who consistently fails at following his system, and deep down he knows it. That’s why he’s so scared of the actual Notre Dame cathedral, why it keeps hurting him, and why it ultimately kills him. He cannot look those statues in the face, he cannot look at the system he tells himself he follows better than anyone else.

(Inspector Javert of Les Mis is also a Bird Lion villain. Big Victor Hugo trope.)

MEGARA “MEG” (1997)

(& Hades)

Meg is the example I would use to illustrate a Burnt Snake primary. She sold her soul (gave up everything) for her boyfriend, he left her, and now she doesn’t think it’s safe to love like that again. “Look I learned my lesson, okay? I’ve sworn off man handling.” Meg won’t let herself trust anyone: “He comes in with this big handsome farm boy act, but I can see though that in a Peloponnesian minute.” It’s because she doesn’t trust herself: “If there’s a prize for rotten judgement / I guess I’ve already won that.”

Her only connection in the world is Hades, this weird and kind of compelling combination of bitchy best friend and shady producer who’s trapped her in a bad five-record deal. They are both similar flavors of Snake secondary, which is how they they can be antagonistic… but still kinda get each other, and work well together. They both enjoy sitting in a kind of blunt Neutral, but get things done by being charmers - creatively telling the truth, and switching approaches quickly in order to to figure out what resonates best with the person they're talking to.

We see Meg use Hercules’ fan girls as a smokescreen to sneak into his villa, and then talk him into playing hooky and having a night on the town. After which, she falls into his arms with her line about “weak ankles” as a way to get him to get him talking about potential weaknesses. But of course, she catches feelings and her big song “I Won’t Say I’m In Love,” is a nice little portrait of a Snake primary unBurning. Meg goes from not trusting herself at all, to deciding that… maybe it could be different this time.

And this is where Hades misreads Meg, which is ultimately his downfall. He assumes that Meg is a Lion primary like he is. Because Hades is (a bit of a narcissist) and a huge Glory Hound Lion. He hates that he got the shitty assignment, hates that things are “a little dark, a little gloomy, and as always, hey - full of dead people." He wants to be the top dog, he wants to be Zeus. So he offers Meg freedom. That's what a Lion primary like him would want more than anything, were he in her position. But Meg’s not a Lion. She’s a Snake. So we get exchanges like this:

HADES. Hear that? It’s the sound of your freedom, fluttering away. MEG. I don’t care. I won’t do anything to hurt him.

And Hades just does not see that coming.

FA MULAN (1998)

(& Fa Zhou, Mushu, Li Shang, Shan Yu)

So my question is... why does Mulan run away and join the army? Get the obvious answer out of the way - it's not “to uphold the family honor."

FA ZHOU. It is an honor to protect my country and my family. MULAN. So you’ll die for honor?

Fa Zhou is definitely a Badger primary, and Mulan… isn’t. She doesn’t get it. He’s not speaking her language. But she clearly loves her dad, and the next explanation we get is that she did it all to protect him. However, at her lowest and most vulnerable she says - “Maybe I didn’t go for my father. Maybe I went to prove that I could do things right.” That’s an interesting shift. Now the issue isn’t with why she acts, it’s with how she acts. Which means Mulan’s internal conflict isn't coming from her primary, it's coming from her secondary.

This is where we start getting into gender and gender performance. There is a lot of Badger secondary in this movie, and it’s all framed as female (Mulan's mom and grandmother are both Badger secondaries, for example.) There’s also a lot of Lion secondary, which is framed as male. (Fa Zhou, Li Shang, and Shan Yu are all Lions.) And Mulan… tries both options, and fails both times. She gets into a huge amount of trouble trying to be the quiet, caretaking bride at the matchmaker’s, and just as much trouble trying to be the brash, fight-starting Ping at the camp.

Then we have Mushu, who is Mulan's Lion secondary coach… despite not being a Lion secondary himself. He wants to be - disgraced failure Mushu is introduced trying to breathe fire and shake awake the bigger, tougher Great Stone Dragon. He’s trying to seem like an intense Lion when he is happiest and most effective doing a more Badger secondary thing. He comforts Mulan, makes her breakfast, carefully forges letters, wins her allies and generally gets… maternal (“my little baby is all grown up and saving China.”) This is a smart movie, and in a very light, comedic way… it’s saying that Mulan is not the only one self-sabotaging because of gender presentation roles.

So Mulan tries to be a Badger, which doesn’t work. She tries to be a Lion, which doesn’t work. And eventually, of course, realizes that she was a clever, inventive Bird secondary all along. We are introduced to her while she's making little gadgets to do her chores, and when she taps into that she becomes powerful. She is able to figure out a way to use the handicap weights to climb the post and reach the arrow, and defeat Shan Yu’s army by starting an avalanche. She even finds time to plan during the heavily improvised final battle in the palace. Mulan coordinates a two-pronged attack, luring Shan Yu up onto the roof, where she knows Mushu is already in place with a rocket.

As for why she does things… Mulan has an intrinsic inner truth, and just wants to project that truth out into the world. She’s a Lion primary who wants to “be myself” be “true to [her] heart,” and not hide. “When will my reflection show who I am inside?” Lion primaries will get hit especially hard with that kind of identity angst.

And to round out the sorting for this film (which really holds up) - Mushu is probably a Lion primary like Mulan, which is why he gets where she’s coming from. He starts off as a bit of an immature “stage mom” Glory Hound Lion, but gets better. Shang is definitely a Loyalist, probably a young Badger primary. (I think Mulan just likes Badger Lions, her dad is one too.) Shang is very group-orientated, wants to be “the leader of China’s finest troops - no, the greatest troops of all time!” He's also, to be honest, kind of Establishment. Shang has a much harder time getting his head around Girl!Ping then Mulan’s more Snakey buddies, and ultimately needs an authority figure to tell him to cut it out. And Shan Yu, the film’s comment on toxic masculinity, seems like an Exploded Lion primary. He gives his motivation in the first scene- “[the Emperor] invited me. By building his wall he challenged my strength.” Which means that - with the single exception of Hades... all the guys in this wave have been masculine-coded Lion secondaries, and the heroines aren't girly Badgers, but the cool "third option" - Birds or Snakes.

Tl;dr

Pocahontas ~ Lion / Bird (occasional Lion model)

John Smith ~ Badger / Lion

Esmeralda ~ Badger / Snake

Quasimodo ~ Snake / Burnt Lion

Phoebus ~ Paragon Lion / Lion

Claude Frollo ~ Burnt Bird / Lion

Megara ~ Burnt Snake / Snake

Hades ~ Immature Lion / Snake

Fa Mulan ~ Lion / Bird (unhealthy “girl coded” Badger performance) (unhealthy “boy coded” Lion performance)

Fa Zhou ~ Badger / Lion

Mushu ~ Immature Lion that matures / Badger (unhealthy Lion performance)

Li Shang ~ Badger / Lion

Shan Yu ~ Exploded Lion / Lion

(art credit to Cursed Concepts for the beautiful pins I have used to illustrate this post.)

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thelongestway · 2 years

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Sorting the Slayers: Zelgadis Greywords (Lion Primary/Bird Secondary)

Let's get the easy sortings out of the way, because Gourry and Amelia are a lot more complicated. :P Did I say Slayers was a Bird/Lion show? I said it was a Bird/Lion show! But with a switch. The blue-colored, taciturnly-coded Zelgadis Greywords is, in fact, a Lion Primary (although the more obvious Bird Secondary is as strong in him as Lina's Lion Secondary is in her). Zelgadis is the surliest Lion Primary you'll ever meet. He latches on to an idea - initially becoming strong, then getting his old body back - and follows that idea with a singlemindedness bordering on fanaticism and with an early disregard for the consequences. This gets him into his main predicament - he jumps into the contract with Rezo without thinking. But notably, he doesn't change his main tactic - he only changes direction, pursuing a new body with the same instant and singleminded relentlessness. Zelgadis is the only member of the team who repeatedly considers turning on his friends if he feels they're getting in his way (and is just as quick to turn on employers or whoever he sees as an interference). He's just as happy going off on his own as he is working with the group - and it's no surprise that a lot of the time the group gets dragged into his quest, as none of the others have that kind of determination! Relationships become more important to him as the show goes on, but they never become his defining feature. What defines him is his idea, which is unusually narrow for a Lion, but it's there. What's interesting is how his hang-up on turning his body back to normal is really very Lion. Zelgadis doesn't like to be something someone made him into. Another Sorting could have perhaps made peace with a new body, in time. Zelgadis, while he recognizes its advantages, does not. The fact that his body is basically a brand repulses him so much that he is willing to give up the considerable advantages it gives him. When his Lion is triggered for something that's not his narrow idea, such as the fight against Shabranigdu, Zelgadis is very much "it has to be done, consequences be damned." But that situation is literally in the singular. Most of the time he follows his internal compass, and that compass says "I want to be who I want to be, not who someone else defined, end of story." Even when he calls out to Rezo, possessed by Shabranigdu, he screams "Do you want to destroy the world you gave so much to see?", appealing an Idealist morality. As for Secondaries go, in dealing with the world Zelgadis is anything but flexible (just see him basically get completely lost in any of the slapstick episodes - he can't keep up, can't find clever solutions that he hasn't prepared for), so Snake and Badger go right out the window, leaving Lion and Bird. Instead of barging into a situation, though, he usually has an array of tricks - he's easily as skilled as Lina in as wide a variety of areas, from safe cracking to guitar playing. He uses them casually, without drawing much attention to his tools - they're just there, and they come easy to him, and he makes a point of doing his research and maintaining his repertoire. He even has exactly one Actor Bird persona - "heartless swordsman". Everything else his Lion deems superfluous. Zelgadis shows the same kind of flexibility in spellwork and fighting that Lina does: creating a bubble of oxygen in the water for a fire spell, or leaving himself open to break an opponent's sword. However, the two are a great example of the difference between a Bird Primary and a Bird Secondary. Despite playing up (and valuing!) her Lion determination, Lina's whole modus operandi is based around understanding the situation. It's who she is, not what she uses. Zelgadis' use of his Bird is just that: use. It's his preferred method, not who he is. He'd happily give up all his tools to reach his goal (which he, if he ever completes his endgame, will actually have to do, as the body gives him spell capacity and physical power). And then he'll find new tools for a new purpose, because that's what a Lion/Bird does.

#the slayers #slayers #zelgadis greywords #lion primary #bird secondary #character sorting #sortinghatchats #sortingtheslayers

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the-phoenix-heart · 3 years

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Sorting Hat Chats - Futurama

This was such a formative experience for me that I had to sort it. You can trace my taste in everything all the way back here-I’m not exaggerating.

Here is the system I am using to sort these characters (@wisteria-lodge). Also big thanks to Wisteria for helping me sort Fry, Leela, and Bender.

PHILLIP J. FRY is a Snake primary. It’s pretty simple. He’s motivated by the people he loves. He almost let the world be destroyed so he could keep dreaming about his mother, he loves the future because it’s where he has all the people he loves, he would’ve spent an entire lifetime searching for Bender. He has to convince himself that his life in the past was horrible and nobody loved him because it hurt more to think of the people he left behind. Even Lars his alter ego is completely motivated by first Leelu (don’t ask) and then Leela. The idea that Bender doesn’t see him as his best friend hurts him.

As for his secondary, that was less clear. I initially thought he was a Lion because he’s not very smart. Bad call on my part. I think he has a model for it though because he’s constantly been told his entire life that he’s stupid.

He’s really a Badger secondary, which makes him a Snake Badger (the Lover sorting). He’s just very well suited for menial labor. Delivering things is what he’s good at, he also is good at being a night watchman helping out the heads, being a headcare specialist as Lars, and working as an aquarium worker caring for a narwhal. If you read the comics he’s also really good at secretary work, picking up clothes, scheduling meetings, and generally just being a really nice guy. When he’s in the science fair as a kid he says that while Gedgie has brains, Fry has heart, which is mirrored when his father says that Gedgie’s science is cold and emotionless. Fry really does just care so much, he’s also a gift giver.

I do however think he has a Bird secondary model though. Despite the way he acts a lot of the time, he usually does like to do sciency stuff for fun, because he loves scifi. And he loves pop culture of all kinds. Plus, in the comic “Who Wants to be a Gazillionaire” he actually studies hard so he can win the game, and has fun! He ends out the comic talking about history with Scruffy (and it’s one of my favorite endings of a comic).

TURANGA LEELA is a Lion secondary to start with. She’s just very punchy and her usual first thought is to get violent. She’s the best soldier of the main three in “War is the H-Word” (fyi that episode is also a good show for their secondaries). When she’s a superhero her part of the theme song is “Clobberella beats you up, Clobberella beats you up, Who does she beat up? You!” She even needs to be collared in “Benders Game” because her temper is too strong.

As for her primary, it might be surprising, but she’s a Badger. She cares a LOT about fitting in and finding a place for herself. When she thinks she’s an alien she gets involved with a scammer who pretends to be another cyclops, and to her it’s the best thing ever. To find out she was part of a rich culture and was loved, and she is very into the idea of repopulating and rebuilding the society. When it turns out Alcazar is an asshole, she still goes along with it because it’s (what she believes) is her culture, she’s willing to sacrifice her happiness to bring back her culture. She also cares about all animals. That’s random but I just wanted to put that out there.

And when she finds out she’s a mutant, she doesn’t think it’s bad, she just so happy to have found her family. She does stay out of the politics of the mutants for a while but she eventually gets into it. But in the episode “Teenage Mutant Leela’s Hurdles,” she gets turned back into a teenager and is so happy for the chance to have the real teenager experience, going on dates, discipline, chores, curfew, parents. When she’s put in charge of Planet Express it flourishes under her.

She is a little burnt, because she was ostracized her whole life, but she gets better, especially with help from Fry who loves her no matter what.

Here is Leela describing herself in one sentence: “I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence.”

(Also, it’s nice that Leela has the protagonist sorting and Fry has the love interest sorting)

BENDER BENDING RODRIGUEZ was the hardest to sort (other than Amy but that’s because she doesn’t matter). Initially I figured he was just a Snake primary and was happy with that. Then after talking it out with Wisteria we decided he was a Lion primary with a Snake primary model for Fry and other people he doesn’t want to kill. But then...

Then I remembered that “The Beast with a Billion Backs” is a movie that exists and that threw everything topsy turvy.

Because you see, in the movie Bender gets everything he’s ever wanted. He’s the head of the League of Robots, he’s functionally ruler of Earth, and all humans are essentially dead because they left for another universe that’s basically Heaven. This is everything he’s ever wanted (and what a Lion primary wants), but he’s not happy. Fry tells him they’re moving in with Yivo (the other universe, don’t ask) and Bender does a full backtrack and starts trying to get Fry to stay, and then when Fry is leaving Bender immediately tries to go with Fry, which is Bender abandoning a life of being the ruler of Earth just so he can stay with this one meatbag. But he can’t enter the anomaly, so he has to stay on Earth and instead of bossing around other robots or having fun all we see him doing is waiting for Fry to call or write. And it crushes Bender when he finally does get word from Fry and finds out Fry doesn’t want to come back and he’s super happy. Which is what leads Bender to mount a full pirate invasion on “Heaven” all to “save” Fry. And then he closes out the movie with a speech about what love is.

So...with all that context out of the way. He’s an immature Snake primary who is slightly exploded. I think like a lot of Snake primaries he has a model for when he isn’t declaring war because Fry won’t pay attention to him, and that’s that Gloryhound/Immature Lion primary I was talking about earlier. It slots in well with his immature hedonistic Snake primary and that’s why whenever he’s not around his friends he goes off the rails and starts trying to gain power. It’s also why whenever he has power he most of the time loses it because he has to choose between his friends and that power. “Fear of a Bot Planet” and “Bender Gets Made,” both have Bender in positions of power having to walk a tightrope trying to keep his friends alive and keep his power, and both times he chooses his friends.

His Lion primary model is immature like I said. He really just wants notoriety and also to do whatever he pleases. In “A Pharaoh to Remember,” he’s obsessed with being remembered and leaving a lasting impact on society, and in the comic “Kickin’ it Old School” he’s obsessed with being singled out as the best in class and thus gaining the respect of all his peers (it doesn’t go well). That’s what his Lion model is concerned with.

I do think, however, that this Lion primary model (and also his Snake primary) matures over the seasons. He learns more about being a good person in episodes like “Godfellas,” “Lethal Inspection,” “Overclockwise,” “Ghost in the Machines,” and “The Inhuman Torch.” Incidentally most of these focus on his relationships in some way. In “Godfellas” he bonds with one specific farmer and his family, and then the people who are living on him, and crushes him when he can’t help them, he also forms a little friendship with the God and he teaches him that you have to take the initiative and do good (he doesn’t always adhere to this). “Lethal Inspection” Is when he deals with his own mortality, and learns to appreciate that mortality with help from Hermes and his friendship. “Overclockwise” AGAIN has an omnipotent Bender who is essentially another god and he gives it up to help to help his friends, and when asked why he did it he says he couldn’t think of one good reason. And “Ghost in the Machines” has Bender deciding that human life is worth more than robot life because he loves Fry (he also never outright killed Fry when he possessed the machines, just tried to scare him to death, methinks he didn’t want to kill Fry), and he even is willing to stay in robot Hell for all eternity and says “I saved my friend, as far as I’m concerned, I won.” And finally “The Inhuman Torch” has him initially become a fireman hero for the glory but then switches when he finds out a flame monster wants to destroy the world so he sets about being alone for all eternity but then he has to go back so he can save Fry and the world, and he comes a greater hero than Gilgamesh.

(also in “I Roommate” he is willing to castrate himself to stay with Fry, “The Honking” has Bender terrified of killing his best friends, “Jurassic Bark” he tries to kill Seymour so he’ll be all Fry has and then saves Seymour because he realizes how much Seymour means to him, “Crimes of the Hot” has Bender willing die for a turtle named Shelly he befriended, “Less than Hero” has him becoming a hero just so he can hang out more with his friends [and get more attention], and “Obsoletely Fabulous” has Bender changing his mind on the Robot X model because of a vision where Bender is unable to save his friends and Robot X can. Okay I swear I’m done on his primary now)

His secondary is much more simple. He’s a Snake secondary who loves stealing and being charming and he changes tactics at the drop of a hat, he’s also a little lazy and loves music. But-

He also lives in his secondary and loves the idea of being wild and free and unpredictable and having free will (it’s part of what he loves about folk music). And learning he doesn’t have free will in “Free Will Hunting” crushes him and leads him on an existential journey that he hates but he eventually gets free will. After that he tends to just ignore the Bird model that is intrinsic in all robots because you know, robot. It’s also why he hates mortality, mortality has a sense of attachment that he doesn’t like as someone who lives in his snake secondary.

OKAY NOW FOR THE LIGHTNING ROUND!!!

HUBERT J. FARNSWORTH/THE PROFESSOR is obviously a Mad Scientist double Bird. In “Reincarnation” he talks about what he was living for were the ultimate questions of the universe. And he’s obviously a Bird secondary, he’s literally a scientist.

AMY WONG, I don’t care about her, but she’s a Lion primary with thoughts about her life and not ready to be tied down. Secondary honestly anything could go but she seems like a Snake who’s kinda neutral just going through life at breakneck speed.

HERMES CONRAD is a Badger primary who cares a lot about institutions and people as shown in the Bureaucrat song. I think he’s a Badger secondary, although I suppose he could be a Bird. I think he’s a Badger secondary mostly because he just loves sitting down and working and making things more efficient.

DR. JOHN ZOIDBERG is a Snake who just loves his friends and eventually his girlfriend. He willingly stayed at Planet Express in a dumpster because Hubert asked him to, rejecting a well paying job at Mom Corp. He’s also a Badger who puts in work to help people, and is just over all very caring.

So...

Fry - Snake primary/Badger secondary, Lion model because it’s what he’s been told he is, and a Bird model for fun

Leela - Slightly Burnt Badger primary, gets better/Lion secondary

Bender - Immature Snake primary that is slightly exploded, Immature Lion model, both of these mature over the course of the series/Snake secondary, lives in his secondary, Bird model that comes with being a robot that he lowkey resents and kinda discards after “Free Will Hunting”

Farnsworth - Bird primary/Bird secondary

Amy - Lion primary/Snake Secondary, kinda neutral

Hermes - Badger primary/Badger secondary

Zoidberg - Snake primary/Badger secondary

#let me make it clear i was HAPPY with lion snake bender but then i rewatched beast with a billion back and remembered all that #god it's always the favorite characters that give you a hard time #and also always the favorites that end up being over a thousand words #futurama #sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats #i came out with the RECIEPTS because i'm a bird secondary #final word count for bender: 1037 #final over all word count: 2023 #long post #oh my god i can't believe it's finished what the fuck #i finished this a week ago lmao idk why i didn't post it

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dragonsaredorks · 2 years

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Puss In Boots Sorting Thoughts

I wanted to put these down here so that I don't forget, and also because I'm impatient XD. Currently only on season 4 episode 5 so thoughts are subject to change.

Puss in Boots: Badger Lion with a Glory Hound Lion model

Puss cares about the community, about the people of San Lorenzo, but also about people in general. For example, he offers the skeletons and home and their freedom even after they attacked him initially. When they get to town and the townspeople are vary of them (very valid, walking, living skeletons are sort of disturbing XD), Puss genuinely doesn't get it. They're people just like them, why are the townspeople afraid? Last season when Puss is cursed into being a black cat and brings bad luck upon the town; he knows he has to leave for the good of the community, but he's so miserable away from them. (He almost immediately finds a smaller group - attracting communities like the Badger primary he is) I think his Badger is/was probably a little bit burned. He has a lot of glory Hound Lion moments, but during those he essentially wants to be recognized and praised by the community - which feels more Badger then Lion. I think he used to live in that model when he was out on his own adventuring and didn't have a community. Also he gets so much self worth from how valuable he is to the community and is so self deprecating when he feels that he doesn't live up to what they need from him.

Lion secondary because how he solves problems is by running and hitting them with his sword, no prep and no steady hard work. He assembles the Senior Puss squad to fight alongside him in the battle against the Blood Wolf at the insistence of his mentor El Guante Blanco - which is literally him building an army. Even Duchess joins him, even though she considers him her nemesis.

Dulcinea : Bird Badger with a Snake primary model

Dulcinea is a very classic Badger secondary. She works very hard, is liked by everyone, and sometimes falls into that confident role that Badgers sometimes end up occupying because people find them so trustworthy.

I debated between Badger primary and Bird primary for her, but I decided that I think she's just got a really loud Badger secondary which tends to bleed over into her primary. She also had some badger-y ideals, maybe because of the secondary bleeding through? I think Dulcinea definitely has a Snake primary model for Puss and also for the orphans. She sometimes vibes like The Lover sorting (Snake Badger), which makes sense because she's Puss, the main character's, love interest. I think the Snake primary model definitely helps with that impression. I ultimately think she's a Bird primary because of her poem book (which is essentially about kindness and being a good friend and how to navigate other life situations). That's her system. Dulcinea's morals are based off the book (she's still willing to through it out if it doesnt make sense to her tho), and she makes decisions and advises other people based off of it.

Uli : Bird Badger

Uli I think is a Bird primary because of how quickly he changes his mind. He thinks that he needs to be evil and scare other people in order to be treated with respect (that's what he was taught when he was raised in the order of the bloodwolf), but Dulcinea shows him how the skeletons earned respect not by being scary, but by being kind and doing good. Uli immediately goes, "Maybe everything I was taught was wrong and being evil isn't good. Being good is good." He's spent his whole life chasing after the rise of the bloodwolf and tried his best to be as evil as possible - I think that's his system that he learned from the people who raised him, but he's so quick to change his mind and there's no real anguish over it in the way there would be for a Lion primary.

I'm less sure about his secondary, but maybe Badger secondary because he plays the long game? He purposely befriends Puss, putting in the work to gain his trust, just to betray him. He cleans an entire kitchen and cooks a whole meal, just to be evil (reverse psychology was used to make him do this - it's not his fault guys XD). Also I'm pretty sure he falls on the inspirational divide. He takes over Dulcinea's role as teacher of the Reform School for Thieves in the span of one night simply by inspiring the thieves to follow him because he's the star pupil of the school.

Artephius - Double Bird

Artephius has memory problems, but he's still got so many skills. Sure, he periodically forgets about them, but he eventually remembers and he's very impressive when he does. His hobbies, skills, and tools are varied and numerous and I think he's a very fun Bird sec.

I think he's a Bird primary because he honesty just vibes very Double Bird to me? I think if he fully recovers his memory (which I'm guessing he will based off what I remember from when I first watched this show years ago) his primary will be more clear.

More sorting guesses (mostly based off vibes):

Duchess : Lion Bird

Señora Zapata : Snake Lion

Pahoona : Double Lion (or Lion Snake)

Kid Pickles : Lion Snake

Toby : Badger Lion

Cleevil : Badger/Snake

#Puss in boots #Initial sorting thoughts #Sortinghatchats #Puss in Boots is an excellent show and would 100% recommend it.#I love this show #I may have oversorted birds?

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ba-wan · 2 years

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I was on my third re-watch of the drama Start-Up and thought it’d be fun to sort the characters w/ Sorting Hat Chats’ system--it’s such an interesting way to build/disseminate fictional characters. There are a lot of characters in this drama, but I’ll just be sorting the main and second leads. It’s a long read, though. (Minor spoilers ahead!)

1) Main female lead, Seo Dalmi

(Side note: Dalmi is probably one of my favorite K-drama characters to date because she knows what she wants and gets after it with everything she’s got.)

I think she has a Snake primary. A lot of her character-defining actions are driven by the desire to help her most-beloved individuals or people in the world who remind her of those individuals. She refuses to leave her father when her parents divorce, because she thinks it’d be tantamount to betrayal. Early in the show, Dalmi’s grandmother tells Han Jipyeong that Dalmi got into a good university--which is extremely difficult to do in Korea--but when Dalmi’s grandmother sold her hot dog shop to pay for Dalmi’s tuition, Dalmi promptly dropped out and worked until she could buy her grandmother a food truck. She talks about being motivated to create a seeing-eye app and self-driving cars because she wants to help vision-impaired individuals like her grandmother, and to ensure accidents like the one that killed her father wouldn’t happen to other people. Dalmi’s projects are undoubtedly selfless, but they’re inspired by her own special people. I think this is also why she’s so torn-up after finding out the letter she thought were from Nam Dosan were actually from Jipyeong--her inspiration and sense of purpose is so strongly drawn from the individuals she holds dear, finding out a major source of her inspiration was attributed to the wrong person is earth-shattering for her in a way it probably wouldn’t be for a non-Snake primary.

I went between Lion and Badger a lot for Dalmi’s secondary. She’s relentless to the point of desperation, but how much of that is because she’s so hellbent on making her start-up(s) work? She overtly dislikes having to lie, and people around her (primarily the two male leads) seem to be drawn to her for her explicit drive and belief in herself.

But ultimately, I think she’s a Badger secondary. Although Dalmi bluffs a lot without feeling uncomfortable about doing so, she’s pretty bad at it, with a lot of post-bluff panic that I feel like Lion secondaries wouldn’t have. Instead, we see her (happily) grinding a lot: picking up books on management and start-ups, putting in her best efforts at her temp job, staying up late with Dosan when the other team members take a break, asking Jipyeong a million questions all at once over the course of a night. We also see her doing a lot of that Badger-style “just show up” thing in her relationships, like bringing Jipyeong a specific trash bag and pine nut noodles after he mentions them. A pivotal point in the show--when Dalmi walks miles of country roads to find Dosan--also seems Badger-y to me.

2) Main male lead, Nam Dosan

Originally posted by seoul-leaf

Dosan is another favorite K-drama character! Actually, he’s probably my favorite K-drama first male lead of all time, mostly because the bar is so low. But anyway...

I thought Dosan was a Snake primary like Dalmi because he’s so devoted to her and inspired by her, but I noticed that pre-Dalmi, he didn’t really have such special individuals and was pretty content living that way. He cares a lot about his parents and friends, as well as the people Dalmi cares about, but he doesn’t live and die for them the way Dalmi or other Snake primary characters do. I also considered Badger and Lion because he’s shown to be very kind to strangers for no apparent reason, to the point that his parents dub him “Living Buddha.” He impulsively attends the event Dalmi invited him to, seemingly just because he feels like it’d be the nice thing to do. When Dosan visibly pulls ahead of his peers--whether figuratively in an academic way or literally on a running track--he purposely falls behind to protect their feelings. Never to the point of handicapping himself, but just enough that they feel better...again, for no apparent reason.

But when I looked at Dosan some more, I decided that he’s an ever-elusive Bird primary. To outsiders, his way of doing things might seem wonky, but he has a strong internal logic for his actions. When he gets angry, he systematically begins knitting. When he hears people talking about blood types and personality, he launches into a thorough explanation (involving the brain, bloodflow, etc.) of why the two can’t be linked, seemingly with the expectation that if he explains, they’ll see why he’s right and agree. On a more serious note, Dosan has a really clear idea of how he fell for Dalmi, tracing it back through specific scenes: the fireworks he saw on the night they met, quotes from the letter Jipyeong showed him, the trust she has in his hands. Of course, much of this might stem from cinematic convenience, but I think it lends itself to character-building as well. (We don’t get this consciously thematic reminiscence from the other leads, after all.)

His secondary was easy, because Dosan is as Badger secondary as it gets. He liked coding and got genius-level good at it, shows up for his friends when things get rough (Chulsan’s virus debacle), and conveys his affection through diligent work (fixing the bug in their hackathon product and creating an entire app for Dalmi).

Most importantly, he cares a lot about his “integrity of method.” Dosan won a major math competition as a middle schooler competing against high schoolers, but he always felt that he didn’t deserve the win because he accidentally saw the start of a fellow competitor’s solution for a problem he was stuck on and that helped him solve the problem. Others have noted that the first line of someone else’s solution isn’t enough for the average person to solve a math competition problem--you still have to be an incredible mathematician to do that. And who’s to say that Dosan wouldn’t have solved the math problem himself eventually, or that he would’ve won with the other problems he’d already solved correctly? But Dosan doesn’t care about that, because he thinks there’s a proper way to win and he didn’t do it.

(Side note, but Dosan and I have the same sorting! I almost never see Bird Badgers in media so this was fun.)

3) Second female lead, Won Injae

The heart rendering thing about Injae is that she’s a Loyalist primary like her sister Dalmi, but while Dalmi’s primary shines with happy fulfillment, Injae’s not doing great and probably hasn’t been doing great since their parents’ divorce.

Dalmi is healthy and happy because, while she evidently values herself a lot, she also has people around her to dote on--namely, her grandmother, father, and Dosan. (She even doted on Dosan when he didn’t exist as a real person to her!) We see by the show’s ending that Injae is actually just as family-oriented as Dalmi, but she hasn’t had any family to orient herself toward for a long time. Injae tells Dalmi that going with their mother when she remarried a wealthy man would’ve been the smarter move, yet Injae views their mother’s “money obsession” with contempt. She doesn’t love her patronizing stepdad or unintelligent stepbrother either, and since she doesn’t have friends (just colleagues), Injae ends up being lost for a long time.

I thought Injae might be a Snake primary like her sister, but after thinking more I decided that she’s a Badger primary. Kind of an unexpected example of one, considering how cold she is. But I noticed that her salvation comes in the form of reconnecting with her family--Dalmi, their mother, and their grandmother--and choosing to go back to her original surname, “Seo of the Dalseong Seo clan.” (Side note: I don’t even understand Loyalist primaries all that well but that scene made me bawl!!)

While Dalmi is loyal to her inner circle individually, Injae values it for being her small community. She is also loyal to certain ways of living--which is why she chose to go with her mother’s money, which would allow her to continue attending private school and school trips, rather than her father’s uncertain entrepreneurship (as Dalmi does). Injae is very self-focused, but it doesn’t come from a place of wanting to survive as herself. She wants to prove that she can win when she plays by the start-up community’s rules.

Like Dalmi, Injae’s secondary was difficult for me to figure out, but in reverse. Where Dalmi is an obvious hard driver, Injae moves like a silent knife. She doesn’t have issues with lying to get what she wants, as with her application to Sandbox. She also leads her start-up team with quiet authority that’s based on her previous CEO experience and socializes with strangers easily. Ultimately, I think she’s a Bird secondary. Injae relies a lot on her prior knowledge and has the detached propensity to think of everything (including people) as discrete tools. She’s also not great at thinking beyond her established framework, which alarms her mentor when she’s so blasé about being egged by laborers that her startup’s software would displace. Injae has no interest in building communities, inspiring others, or shifting her stance to new opportunities. Girl’s got no friends or improv skills! But she’s very invested in being an excellent CEO, and knows what tools she needs for that, as well as how to use them.

4) Second male lead, Han Jipyeong

Originally posted by kimkim-jipy

Ahh...Jipyeong. He reminds me of some of the kids I’ve tutored. But moving on:

His primary was also hard to discern, but for him it’s because he’s so burnt. Jipyeong doesn’t know what he wants for like two-thirds of the show and even then it takes him another few episodes to really figure things out.

But like Injae, his salvation comes in the form of being together with family. Jipyeong initially gets involved with Dalmi’s start-up because he wants to repay her grandmother, and then he continues his involvement because he develops a crush on Dalmi. That looks Snake-y, but when I look at his happiest moments, it’s when he’s held gently within a group, whether that’s when he’s playing Go-Stop with the Samsan Tech crew or making jeon with Dalmi’s family. When I look at what he longs for, it’s also community. There’s a scene where the young Jipyeong looks longingly at a TV showing a happy family. I think Dalmi’s grandmother had such a strong effect on him because her actions of kindness toward him, a literal stranger, are what he wishes he could do but can’t. Eventually, we see him finally getting to that point himself, when he agrees to invest in a start-up with little profit potential but large probable social impact for orphans like himself. Jipyeong looks his happiest when he’s with a family or helping a community--that feels like a Badger primary to me.

His secondary is really easy, though. Jipyeong is an obvious Lion secondary: happiest when doling out blunt truths, willing to run over social conventions to get what he wants, and almost pugnaciously earnest. I suspect this secondary is what his character so appealing to audiences as a love interest--it’s far flashier than Dosan’s Badger secondary, although in my opinion it’s not nearly as effective in giving Dalmi what she needs/wants. (I’m also inured by the fact that my mom has a lot of Lion secondary traits and I know their downsides firsthand.)

Summary:

Seo Dalmi: Snake/Badger Nam Dosan: Bird/Badger Won Injae: Badger/Bird Han Jipyeong: Badger/Lion

#sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #snake badger #bird badger #badger bird #badger lion #start up #start-up

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painted-crow · 3 years

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ugh i am so confused on my secondary :/ the one that i know im not is lion because i do the face switching thing with every person i talk to- even via text. its not a conscious thing either, it just happens & has always been this way & i enjoy doing it! but im unsure if its snake face-switching, badger mirroring, or actor bird. i just take someones energy and reflect it back at them- but the snek neutral state does resonate with me. there's a "me" under all the layers but its still... (1/2)

(2/2)..but its still very actor-y/mirror-y. the only time im not putting on any layers/pretty blunt is when im super apathetic or sick. im kind of a shitty improviser in certain areas but good in others, if that means anything. kinda makes me sound rapid-fire birdy or just a built sec in general lol. i do the bird *unconsciously hoarding info* thing haha which is nice, but im also usually suprised at my good rep/how much people seem to like me. any tips on telling between these 3? thanks paint!

Last ask before I crash for the night -w-

I have a couple asks about similar stuff, how to tell these kinda similar-looking secondary tools apart... let's talk about it for a bit here. Hopefully I'm not too asleep to make sense. I was just gonna write a quick post about it, but being concise is hard >.<

Courtier vs Actor vs Rapid Fire vs Snake (bonus: vs Lion)

Courtier Badger mirroring

Showing someone the parts of yourself you think they'd find most relatable. They end up feeling liked and accepted by you because they feel you're similar to them.

All of this is genuine on your part, at least in the moment--you're kinda bad at faking it. It's difficult or impossible to mirror someone you really dislike.

Actor Bird masks

You can play a role ("professional," for instance) or turn the volume up on some of your traits (e.g. "friendly/extroverted/music lover/charismatic") to make a mask. This is a way you can act, and it doesn't have to be as genuine as a Badger's mirroring, though it probably takes less energy if it is.

Once you've gotten into character for a mask, it can take a bit to change out of it. It's kind of a mindset shift, and it's hard to fluidly change into a different behavior set without seeming to contradict yourself. Masks don't easily adjust on the fly.

Rapid Fire Bird bricolage

You have background knowledge, skills, experience, and/or resources related to a whole lot of different topics. You're creative, resourceful, and good at recombining past tools into current solutions.

You might also use Actor Bird masks as part of your toolset. Actor + RF Bird doesn't = Snake, but can seem similar at first glance.

Snake improv

You're making this up as you go along, and you're totally cool with that. You're not really afraid that things will go wrong, because you know you can recover and just pivot into something that will work better. You're willing to experiment with different tactics, watch them work or fail in real time, and adjust on the fly.

You don't mind acting differently toward different people. Your act doesn't have to be genuine, the way a Badger's would. It doesn't have to be prepared, either, and you don't get stuck in it like an Actor Bird might. You're great at using whatever resources are around you, but you didn't necessarily prepare any in anticipation of needing them. You may or may not start out with a plan, but you have no problems with dropping it if you see an opportunity come up that you want to take.

If you're dropped into a situation where you have no clue what's going on and no prior experience and no tools and you don't know anyone, you're probably still fine. A Bird in those circumstances would either panic, or withdraw and become an observer until they feel they've gathered enough information to know what to do.

Lions being Lions

All this talk about code-switching and changing how you act is uncomfortable. Why would anyone want to do this? How can you get good results like this??? Nope. Nope.

You kinda just do stuff. You're resilient, even stubborn. You don't go in for half measures. You don't give up easily. Snakes pivot all the time, but you don't--you bulldoze a straight line through your projects and problems, without necessarily thinking ahead. It usually works out, which confuses the heck out of other people sometimes, but hey, it's just how you roll!

Final note

You might model or perform any of these in addition to your actual secondary. (Info about models and performances can be found near the bottom of this page on the SHC WordPress.)

You could be a Badger who's specifically learned to use Bird masks, for instance. It's up to you which words you think best describe you and the tools you use ^^

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repetitionsings · 3 years

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Sorting Cabin Pressure

I return! Briefly, because tumblr still hates me, and yet triumphant, because I’ve spent the last week re-listening to Cabin Pressure, and I want to talk about sorting the MJN crew. So let’s do some Sorting Hat Chats!

As usual, my view on these characters may not be yours, and if you have different thoughts, I’d love to hear them. :D Discussion spans the entire 27 episodes, so let’s say spoilers just to be safe.

Martin

Despite probably having the biggest, best-defined character arc, I'm finding Martin the main character I'm least set on.

Secondary-wise, I'd say he's definitely a built secondary; very little of Martin's improvisations seem to come comfortable to him. His insistence on doing things right and by-the-book feels fairly Badger, but his ability to be lured into shortcuts and moments of unprofessional behavior feels to me like a Bird who thinks that Badger hard word and toil is the best option. It also seems to fit with the way he becomes calm and confident once something works out for him, and then immediately loses it once things go wrong and he feels unprepared again. The few episodes where he really gets to be confident and succeed particularly feel Bird-y to me: relying on knowledge in Johannesburg especially stand out.

(That said, Badger also seems to ring consistently with the way he handles a lot of things -- his dedication to his job, his hard work, even the way half the time he does get confident, it's either because Douglas isn't there to bring him down, or he seems to be pretending to be him.)

Primary-wise, though, that's where I get tripped up. Not a Snake, I think; even his hesitancy to leave MJN is half about his own goals and issues, not fully founded in caring about others. Badger doesn't quite seem right either -- "being loyal and true to things or people that exist is more important than sticking to grander but more abstract ideals or concepts" does not sound like Martin at all. My first thought was Lion, just one that's still struggling to be as decisive as they usually are -- despite his hesitancy, and his instincts being 'follow the rules written by others', a lot of the Lion stuff seems to apply to him. "They are willing to sacrifice their safety, social harmony, and a certain amount of logic to do what they feel is right." "There is right and there is wrong. Things are black and white. Shades of gray are places where people go to play games, twist the truth, and to be cowards."

But... he does bend the rules, or sit back and let Douglas do so. If nobody who makes him feel like he has to put on the act is there -- see Newcastle and Qikiqtarjuaq -- he'll bend them pretty far. Trying to drop candy on a kids' birthday party (Johannesburg) and lying to a passenger about where they're flying (Timbuktu) levels of far.

So who's around seems to be a big part of it, which maybe could point back in a loyalist direction. I think in the end, though, I'm going to throw up my hands and say, maybe a Bird whose system is in progress from something fairly immature and black-and-white to something more complicated? Martin's devotion to his passion and his job above all else feels pretty Idealist to me, and this seems a little more fitting than him being an extremely malleable Lion.

Douglas

Douglas "at any given moment I never have fewer than seven ulterior motives" Richardson? Douglas "did something clever and now everything's fine" Richardson? Douglas "pretending very hard not to care about anything, actually cares very deeply, but only about specific things and specific people" Richardson? Is there even any point to considering an answer besides double Snake here? Douglas might as well be the model of it. Trickery is his first language. He schemes, charms, adapts, and lucks out in order to achieve anything in his sights, whether that's as small as a relief from boredom or as big as saving the day.

Motivation is trickier -- but it becomes clearer and clearer as time goes on how far Douglas is willing to go to save MJN, and outside his own desires to be the captain again, that seems like the biggest thing that ever drives him. Combine that with his hedonism, and the way he's happy to lie, cheat, and steal to accomplish most other things with no notable guilt or shame, I don't even see hints of a model or structure built over it; the things that matter to him are his own reputation and status (and even that in very specific, particular ways), and saving GERTI and her crew.

(That said, the more I think about it, I do think you could make a solid argument for Douglas as a rapid-fire Bird Secondary. Mostly built around Zurich -- his confession that his confidence started, not just as a mask, but wholesale imitating somebody else. There's also this excerpt from Finnemore's Farewell Bear Facts: "Douglas prefers to hang back, let other people make mistakes, work out the 'something clever' he's going to do in secret, and then present it with a flourish." While that could be Snake-y, I could see it as a Bird's planning working for someone whose very invested in his own reputation. That said, I still think Double Snake seems the most applicable overall.)

Carolyn

Carolyn's drives are a kind of mirror to Douglas', which is interesting to reflect back on. The two things she cares most about are how she's seen, and -- even if she sometimes shows it in her own strange way -- Arthur. Then Douglas and Martin start to rank in there over time, and eventually so does Herc. (Martin moreso than Douglas -- speculation, but I think it's probably because everyone knows Douglas will take care of himself first, so he doesn't need to be worried about so much.) Money matters to her of course, but several times it comes down to show that if money was the most important thing, she'd probably have given up GERTI a long time ago. We get it set out plainly as early as Douz: "Because I am the Chief Executive Officer of MJN Air. It’s a good thing to be. It’s better than... a little old lady."

I think it's possible to read Carolyn as an extremely burned Badger; there's something in how she reacts to her sister that makes me think I can see it. But in general, I'm more inclined to say Snake Primary. One that isn't fully burned -- Arthur's never really out of her circle, I think -- but does have a hell of a time opening up her circle to new people by the time of the series. Just look at the trial Herc goes through before he gets there.

Lion Secondary, I think. She's the immovable object to Douglas' unstoppable force, and Martin is the thing unfortunately trapped between them at times. She's stubborn and honest, hates playing at being nicer than she is and only does it when absolutely necessary, and cares about her rules being followed but not the rules in general so much. She's whip-smart, but she doesn't actually tend to be tricky or slippery in the same way as Douglas -- and in fact, the one time we really see her try to be actively tricky, in Timbuktu, she loses. She's more likely to ignore opposition or tell someone else to solve it, and even when she pulls something, it's usually pretty straight-forward. (For example, calling Hester's fans in Cremona -- it's an underhanded move against someone who's earned her ire, but not really a complicated scheme.)

Arthur

I think Arthur shares his mother's Lion Secondary. He's a force in his own right as much as she is, even if he's more of a tornado to her steel barrier. He's honest to a fault and very much always himself, no matter what the situation, or how much better it might be to try and do something else.

As Primary goes, it's hard to tell if this is just Arthur's optimism shining against everyone else, but my first instinct is Badger. He wants to be helpful, oftentimes too much so, and he likes them so much it tends to be notable when he doesn't like somebody. His focus tends to be the people in front of him at the time, but that does extend to include other people when they're there -- it's not just the crew at all times. While I think it's possible to see him in other lights, Badger seems to make the most sense and work with what we see of his wants through the series.

Herc

While most of the other minor or reoccurring characters don't show up enough for me to have even an idea, I think we do get enough of Herc to narrow it down some, if not make a completely secure conclusion.

My first instinct is that he's yet another Snake Primary in the mix. It works with his role as a foil for Douglas, and with his willingness to give up his position to be with Carolyn by the end of the series. (That said, I feel like his speech on why he's a vegetarian in Ottery St. Mary could point towards Bird Primary as well, and would make sense with everything we see of him.)

He seems straightforward in a way that doesn't line up with a Snake Secondary to me -- that could be a matter of the situations we see him in, but I still just don't see it in his conversations with Carolyn. I'd say maybe a Lion Secondary, in the way the two of them clash and he stands his ground. Bird Secondary also makes sense, but admittedly I'm having trouble pointing to anything specific that made me think so; there's just something in the way his manner bounces off the others, and in the way he seems to almost take on and off All-Knowing Air Captain mode.

In conclusion --

Martin: Double Bird with a Badger Secondary model Douglas: Double Snake Carolyn: Snake Primary/Lion Secondary Arthur: Badger Primary/Lion Secondary Herc: tentatively Snake Primary/Lion or Bird Secondary

or, as they say in Limerick... But for Arthur, they're all quite constructed With the Snakes bickering interrupted By a worrying Bird From the Captain's chair heard Til the newest of Snakes is inducted

Carolyn's Lion is strong and won't coddle Martin's Bird, leaning against his model Or the Lion she raised By the Snake she's unfazed And thank you all, for reading my twaddle

#sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #cabin pressure #Sorting Things Out #m: cabin pressure #til binary systems run

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sevilemar · 2 years

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Bird Secondary with Fluid Secondary Model

Help me, oh wise one! I cant figure out my secondary.

I will try my best *cracks knuckles*

Im mostly stuck between bird and snake but badger is possible. Im not burned. I know that. My methods make me happy. I just cant figure out which one is ME.

I think there might be some strong model action involved, nonny 😉

Every day, after a cup and a half of coffee, i start out by making a list of things i WANT to accomplish. The plan feels like solid ground. A place to start. I had depression for a while and this is one of the ways that i would get myself going. The habit stuck around and i have been doing it ever since. I dont get a sense of accomplishment by completing anything on the list. Its the list itself that feels great.

That could be a bird model/bird performance, developed as a coping strategy. I hear it's something that happens often with mental illness.

I dont take any pride in my hard work, but i do take pride in the things i know. If i know something, like really know it inside and out, i will talk about it all day long. And if im learning about something, i will tell you all about it and ask for your opinion.

It's very bird to pick up up shiny things and show them off to the world. I have a double bird friend who does it often, and I love sharing their passion.

Do you have a bird primary/bird primary model as well, nonny? Because the last sentence sounds very much like a bird primary building their system with outside information.

Thing is, i never USE this knowledge to solve problems. When i am thrown in to a situation on the fly, my immediate reaction is "stop. think. Take inventory of the situation.

Circumventing or improvisational secondary for sure.

Do you know anyone that knows more than you about this? Are they around? No? Ok. Whats in your immediate environment that can help you solve this problem? Nothing? Ok. I need to remove myself from this situation to think."

The last sentence feels very birdy to me, because as an improvisational secondary, I would not want to remove myself from the situation. I need the situation to find a solution. And because you talked about bringing in people with the right expertise as your first thought, it sounds like I-know-a-guy bird. You pick up knowledge for fun, but you pick up people to solve problems. That would probably also explain why you feel badger is a possibility.

I am good at basic interactions with people bc i have some ready made conversation topics. But if you are one of those people that is closed off and i cant bounce off of you, I immediately fall apart, my face turns beet red and i exit stage left ASAP.

Sounds like actor bird to me. Actor bird who is not prepared to deal with an uncooperative conversation partner. And again, removing yourself from the situation to regroup instead of staying in it is a build secondary move. It's looking good for bird so far 👍

Also, i am horrible at sticking to a plan. Idk if maybe its more of a memory thing or not, though. Like, what if i miss a step? Do i have to start over? Thats my instinct. Start over. Its stressful trying to remember every step. I like to know what im getting in to without being constricted. But not because i dislike a plan. Its more like i cant remember a stupid plan.

That's because you're a I-know-a-guy bird, not a "I have a (cunning) plan" kind of bird. It's very similar to how a snake feels about plans, but my instinct would not be to start over but to discard the plan altogether and just react in the moment.

I also am different with different people. This is because some people (and i instinctively know who these are) can handle "me" and others need a more tailored version of me. Some people can handle blunt honesty while others need diplomacy. At the end of the day, as long as i have gotten through to you, found out what "makes you tick" so to speak, i am happy. If you are a person who wants honesty and i misrepresented the truth, i would feel terrible. Otoh if you are a very sensitive person, i would feel terrible being so honest that i know i hurt your feelings when there were clearly better ways to get my point across to you.

This sounds like a fluid secondary model alright. It could be either courtier badger or snake, it's hard to tell. I'm leaning a little towards courtier badger because of the "more tailored version of me", which is a badger thing.

So... im snakey with people and birdy by myself? Or maybe im just randomly a badger for no other reason than it seems possible? Any thoughts?

I think you're a solid bird secondary who uses a lot of its facets: you love to collect knowledge and show it off to the world, you use I-know-a-guy bird to solve problems, and actor bird for social interactions. And you have a fluid secondary model, maybe courtier badger, to help you get a feel for your conversation partner.

#sortinghatchats #bird secondary #badger secondary model #actor bird #i know a guy bird #courtier badger #ask answer #submission #sevil sorts #sort me

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laufire · 3 years

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Sorting Hat Chats: The 100

I’ve been thinking of sorting the characters on this show for a while, but that’s easier said than done because it has a pretty extensive cast LOL. At the end, I decided to limit myself to those characters that made it alive to the final season, and a few cases that only really appeared in it and were key to the plot (although if anyone wants, I’m happy to debate others). I apologize beforehand if I forgot anybody xD. Obviously, spoilers from the show are to be expected.

For those who don’t know: the sortinghatchats method was inspired by Hogwarts houses, but it uses a dual way of sorting characters: primaries, relating to motive (WHY do they do things), and secondaries, referring to methods (HOW do they do things). Instead of the traditional names for the houses, it uses Badger, Bird, Lion, and Snake.

There’s also what’s called models: primary or secondary sortings other than one’s own, that you’ve taught yourself or being taught to use to get by when yours fails you. They can also adopt performances, the ability to appear as another sorting, but those are self-aware and more about mimicking behavior for specific circumstances.

Primaries or secondaries can also be Burnt (something has gotten in the way, making you feel you can’t trust them or use them) or Exploded (in the opposite direction, one goes too far with their sorting. I.e., an Exploded Lion secondary would throw themselves at anything without thinking of the consequences, becoming quite self-destructive).

Now, a brief summary of each sorting, for reference:

LION Primary’s sense of morality and ethics comes from inside. Things just feel right or they feel wrong. BIRD Primary gets their morality and ethics from the world outside them. They decide what they think is right. BADGER Primary is focused on the good of the group. Who cares if something is technically “moral” if people are getting hurt? SNAKE Primary is a lot like Badger, but instead of protecting the group, their highest law is the well-being of the individual people they love.

LION Secondary gets their power from being direct, honest, completely themselves. Their “plan” is just keep going until someone stops them. If they see a locked door, they kick it in. BIRD Secondary collects tools and skills. They build things, find things, learn things. If they see a locked door, they go through their box of keys until they find the right one. BADGER Secondary is fair, hardworking, and shows up. They’re good at getting people to trust them, and good at getting people to help them. If they see a locked door, they knock. SNAKE Secondary knows the right mask to wear for each situation. They’re adaptive. They go in the back way. They find the third option. They’re the ones who know how to pick the locks.

CLARKE GRIFFIN

Miss Griffin was an easy one, because I’m very used to her kind: unhealthy Badger primary paired with (in her case, burnt) Snake secondary.

Unhealthy Badgers’ community preocupations devolve into Us vs. Them mentality (rampant nationalism for example), giving them ease when it comes to othering and dehumanizing other groups. S5 showed the most extreme case, as her group had been reduced to one other person with Madi. They’re also extremely controlling, as they always think they Know Better what’s best for everybody, and feel justified about any immoral action they take as they feel it’s what’s right.

Her secondary is burnt, which can make it harder to identify (burnt secondaries all can look like a person is passive or ineffective, if they don’t manage to pick up models. Which Clarke didn’t). But I can’t see any other for her, and she’s pulled a few uber Snake moves here and there, like stealing the bunker or trying to become Commander (but as she’s burnt, not too effectively).

BELLAMY BLAKE

I think Bellamy is a Bird primary, a group that can be a bit hard to identify for me so I do it by process of elimination: I don’t think he’s a Lion, with how much he depends on outside input; he might’ve started with a Snake model for Octavia, but it made him miserable, and in general I don’t think he’s a Loyalist, with how easy is for him to see outside perspectives. Another details is that Birds can be vulnerable to cult mentality which. Welp. And his interest in ancient history and mythology is another trait that could point to it.

For his secondary, I’d pick Badger. He’s at his best when he draws people in through effort, putting the work in, and the methods he uses when he needs to manipulate are very Badger in nature (encouraging others on his behalf, interrogation, etc.).

OCTAVIA BLAKE

The girls is so Double Lion it hurts to look at sometimes lmao. She makes decisions entirely with her gut, and the consequences hit her hard. She’s impulsive and headstrong and unstoppable. I think she slowly burned during her Blodreina arc, because although Lions can be natural and effective leaders (and I think looking at the show’s track record, Octavia has been the most effective and long-term one we’ve seen by far, no matter her critics xD), being forced to go against what they FEEL is right or wrong would gut them, like it did to Octavia during the dark year, hardening her until she crumbled. She didn’t heal until the end, when she stopped the final battle.

Another trait typical of Lion primaries I’ve seen is an tendency to side with (who they perceive as) the underdog (with the dark side of White Saviorism attitudes, ime), even when it’s on the “other” side of a conflict, which can be seen in Octavia’s ease to relate to the grounders.

RAVEN REYES

I think Raven is another Bird primary, like Bellamy, albeit a less malleable one. Part of it is that she has a pretty solid Snake primary model that she used for Finn, and that later gave her some help too. I debated with myself between Snake and Bird for a while, but ultimately I went with Bird. I think the way she appealed to the Judgy Alien Entity in the finale pointed in that direction (we can learn to do better etc.).

She’s, IMO, a Lion secondary through and through, although she sometimes uses a Bird model. I think her secondary burns in the last season when she causes the deaths of the Eligius works, accounting for how meek she starts acting, constantly second-guessing herself.

JOHN MURPHY

This boy is a Snake primary if I ever saw one, with Emori as His Person and the rest of the space fam in his inner circle, but not as much. He was burnt and bitter at the beginning, as can happen to lonely Snakes, often taking refuge in other things to compensate (status, gains, revenge, anything). They’ll choose people above ideals, which can give them a ~carefree vibe when it comes to their morals.

As for his secondary, I’d go with Badger. It’s immature to start with, but as we advance through the series we see him becoming better at it, and he’s really good at getting people on his side, to convince them to do what he wants them to do, like he did with Indra and Pike, like he earned the trust of Sanctum’s citizens, etc.

ECHO KOM AZGEDA

She’s, IMO, another Snake primary, although that part of her rarely got to shine in Azgeda. But we see her being primarily preocupied with Her People, first and foremost. When she’s convinced to let go of her revenge quest for Bellamy, is because Raven put herself in the line of fire, and Echo couldn’t allow that.

She’s also a damn good Bird secondary and strategist, who learns and collects skills, and can work a long scheme like a spy should.

EMORI

Badger primary for my girl. She starts out burnt, due to her society’s and family’s rejection of her, and her primary starts to heal with Murphy and, especially, with the rest of spacekru (see when she tells Murphy she didn’t know she had needed to be part of something bigger like them, but she had). She THRIVES in communities, and she strives to protect everyone around her.

It’s interesting how it pairs with her Snake secondary, which came in handy when it came to con people and taken advantage of any unpredicted opportunity to do so. It gave her a mercenary edge because she needed to protect herself, to think on her feet, but when she’s safe, she prioritices the group and is in “neutral” mode, not feeling the need to put on a face with her closest people.

I think it’s hilarious that she house shares with Clarke, btw xD, because they’re outbringings and experiences show how very different two people of the same sorting can become.

Also, I love mirroring pairings, so I love that hers and Murphy’s sorting are inverted lol (on top of pairings with a Snake primary being really romantic :P).

NATHAN MILLER

I’m devided between Badger or Snake primary, although I’d ultimately go for the first. He, more than anybody, took to Wonkru and the needs that structure provided.

I think he’s a Bird secondary, although he doesn’t get as much focus as others and it doesn’t get their chance to shine.

ERIC JACKSON

I’d go with Double Badger for him: community oriented, natural caretaker. Not bad traits for a doctor slash therapist.

INDRA KOM TRIKRU

I started thinking of her as a possible Lion primary, but lately I’m more inclined towards Snake, with Gaia and Octavia as her people, and a Lion model or performance as a general and leader. And when faced with Sheidheda, she prioritized getting one over on him for her mother, always, even when it could’ve been detrimental.

Her secondary is a more tempered Lion, but still steadfast, tireless.

NIYLAH KOM TRIKRU

I see in her the open-mindedness and free-spiritedness of other Bird primaries, as well as a Badger secondary caretaker tendency (she sees an emotionally scarred girl and she’s THERE smh).

GAIA KOM TRIKRU

I think her flamekeeper trajectory shows Lion primary tendencies; she did what she did despite what her community or her mother might’ve needed or wanted from her, determined that she knew what was right for her. For her secondary I’d go with Lion too, as I feel she’s someone who couldn’t ever pretend to be anything but Herself, keeping to her faith even in the bunker despite possible consequences.

MADI

Sorting someone so young can be difficult, as I always feel we haven’t seen enough and their secondaries tend to be more rash and unformed. But I’ll give it a go.

I’ve seen Lion primary traits in her, that “this is WRONG, it’s just WRONG” feeling, that is what creates her main conflicts with Clarke. She also tends to take big responsibilities over her shoulders because she feels it’s her duty, and doing one’s duty is What’s Right, like taking the Flame or giving herself up to Cadogan.

She’s yet another possible Double Lion, I think, as she’s pathologically incapable of subterfuge and never thinks things ahead xD. It makes sense to me that she’d reflect Octavia, tbh.

CHARMAINE DIYOZA

Yet ANOTHER Lion primary lmao. One that eventually became disilusioned with her own crusade, and that adopted a Snake model with her daughter and Octavia, IMO.

Her secondary, however, is Bird. Look at her little notebook of strategist and thoughs. That’s such a Bird secondary move.

HOPE DIYOZA

Snake primary that very easily grows attached to people, with a very impulsive and immature Lion secondary that’s gotten her into trouble (and her mother killed, with her rash quest for vengeance).

JORDAN GREEN

I’m thinking Bird primary (he gathers outside information and decides, changes his mind when he receives new information without making the fuss other primaries would about being wrong), and maybe Lion secondary for his rashness.

GABRIEL SANTIAGO

Bird primary. These guys can spend their lifetimes figuring out the world, what’s right and what’s wrong, how everything works etc., and Gabriel spent several ones doing just that, so he’s not a hard one.

I think he’s also a Bird secondary, going through several combinations for the spiral, for his early experiments with the minddrives, etc. This is called The Mad Scientist sorting, so you know. Fitting xD

SHEIDHEDA

Frankly, these guy’s primary is everyone’s guess, though I guess Lion is the better fit, if only because the rest sound absurd. And well, Exploded Lion primary sounds about right for him: completely caught up in his Cause TM (his cause being leading the Grounders to a glorious end, I guess).

For his secondary, on instinct, I’d go with Snake. When he was in Russel’s body he didn’t try to play a determined part, he went with the flow and easily maneuvered things on the fly to end up on top.

LEVITT

Snake secondary that was miserable on Bardo’s “no emotional bonds ever” rules. Once he meets Octavia he’s ALL IN with her in a way that’s frankly a bit ridiculous lol, but Snake love is like that.

Just based on how people in Bardo reacted to him, I’m going to say he’s a Badger secondary. Despite everything that should’ve made them look twice at him, they kept trusting him, which makes me think he had a good reputation as a loyal hardworker and was likeable enough that they kept giving him the benefit of the doubt.

BILL CADOGAN

This guy is a Snake primary that REALLY doesn’t want to be a Snake primary, and those guys are always a pain xDD. In the end it’s his family, his daughter especially, that motivates him and he’s fixated on, but that’s not something he can accept in himself, hence his whole “no personal bonds, the collective is what matters” Bardo society with a hardcore Badger performance.

I’d say Bird secondary for him. He planned ahead when he created the bunker, he tried out different plans and combinations with the stone, he crafted the society he thought would be best to past the test from scrach, and he went to cryo to play the long game.

TL;DR

Clarke Griffin = Badger Snake AKA The Politician. Unhealthy primary, burnt secondary.

Bellamy Blake = Bird Badger AKA The Survivor (yes, this is very ironic. I know quite a few dead characters in this house, idk what writers are playing at xD)

Octavia Blake = Double Lion AKA The Revolutionary. Burnt secondary, healed at the end.

Raven Reyes = Bird Lion AKA The Grail Knight. Temporarily burnt secondary.

John Murphy = Snake Badger AKA The Lover. Unburnt primary. Very fitting name for the Romantic Hero of the story lmao.

Echo kom Azgeda = Snake Bird AKA The Mastermind.

Emori = Badger Snake AKA The Politician. Unburnt primary.

Nathan Miller = Badger Bird AKA The King Arthur.

Eric Jackson = Double Badger AKA The Peacemaker.

Indra kom Trikru = Snake Lion AKA The Rebel.

Niylah kom Trikru = Bird Badger AKA The Survivor (not an ironic one!!).

Gaia kom Trikru = Double Lion AKA The Revolutionary.

Madi kom Louwoda Kliron Kru = Double Lion AKA The Revolutionary.

Charmaine Diyoza = Lion Bird AKA The Vigilante.

Hope Diyoza = Snake Lion AKA The Rebel.

Jordan Green = Bird Lion AKA The Grail Knight.

Gabriel Santiago = Double Bird AKA The Mad Scientist.

Sheidheda = Lion Snake AKA The Robin Hood.

Levitt = Snake Lion AKA The Lover (another fitting title!).

Bill Cadogan = Snake Bird AKA The Mastermind.

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starry-sky-stuff · 3 years

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Sorting the Grisha Trilogy

For this sorting I’ll be using the superb sorting system created by @sortinghatchats. A brief breakdown, there are Primaries, the why, and Secondaries, the how. For a more in depth explanation check out @sortinghatchats or @wisteria-lodge. Here’s a link to a great and succinct explanation.

Disclaimer: Spoiler warnings apply both for the Grisha Trilogy, the Six of Crows Duology and the Nikolai Duology.

This turned into a very long post so I cut for length.

Alina Starkov has a very loud Lion Secondary that she increasingly grows into as the series progresses. Alina has literally no chill ever, about anything. She’s always ready to throw down. In Siege & Storm, she’s quite ready to tear the Crown Prince a new one for his suggestion that they lower the draft age. All the while Nikolai watches in exasperation because they very much need to keep the generals and royals on side. But Alina can never be anything other than what she is. he is genuinely disturbed by Nikolai’s ability to switch personas because it is so antithetical to her entire personality. Alina is the same kind of Lion Secondary that Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games is — someone who inspires an army and is ultimately used as a symbol and martyr by others for their own gains.

For her Primary I would also say Lion. Alina has very firm beliefs and they all come from within. She’s also got that lone wolf outlook that Lion Primary’s often struggle with. Repeatedly, she pushes people away and is intent on doing things alone. There’s also elements of the unhealthy Glory Hound Lion Primary, in that, as much as Alina is motivated by doing good, she’s also motivated by gaining power. Greed and power are such integral parts of her storyline. A Snake would claim they were gaining power to protect their loved ones, a Badger just people in general or maybe Ravka as a whole. But Alina gains power so she can defeat the Darkling and save the world. When she kills Mal, as much as it is to save the world, a part of it is also to gain power, for which she pays a price by losing said power. The very core issue in her relationship with Mal is the conflict between a Loyalist and an Idealist. For Mal, his main priority is Alina. For Alina, her priority is defeating the Darkling.

Loyal and dutiful Mal Oretsev is an incredibly obvious Snake Primary. His entire motivation is centred on Alina. Everything he does is for her. He volunteers to hunt the stag for her, he deserts the army for her, he stays in the capital to protect her even though he hates it. “You’re my flag, you’re my nation” is a very Snake flavoured declaration of love. Mal is not in this fight because he wants to save Ravka or defeat the Darkling. He was completely okay with him and Alina escaping to Novyi Zem at the end of the first book and leaving Ravka to its fate. He commits to the fight when Alina does, and her cause becomes his cause.

For his secondary, charming, likeable, Mal is a Badger. One of the first things we learn about Mal is that he can fit in anywhere and has no trouble making friends. Although he has a bit of a Lion Secondary Performance, at his core his a team player. He enjoyed the army because it was a community, and he’s at his lowest in the second book because he has no friends and no community. Part of why he’s much healthier in the last book is that he has a community again and a position within that community. In the White Chapel he can train and teach, and once they leave he has his own little team again. He falls into the leader role in the last book, not because he inspires loyalty the way Lion Secondary Alina does, but because he caretakes and looks after people. When they’re underground, and he constantly goes back to check on everybody and talk to them to make sure they keep up, that’s a Badger Secondary looking after his community. It’s probably not at all surprising that Mal has what @the-phoenix-heart has dubbed the love interest sorting. His priority is Alina, and he shows his love by following her and joining her quest, and in the end, sacrificing himself for her. Mal wasn’t going to die to save Ravka. He was sacrificing himself to save Alina.

Nikolai Lantsov, whose entire motivation in the original trilogy is to gain the throne of Ravka to save Ravka, strikes me as more of a Loyalist than an Idealist. Either he’s a Badger whose community is Ravka, or a Snake who just has a very wide circle. Considering there’s no evidence of him dehumanising people, I would lean towards Snake. We later learn that part of why he wants to fix Ravka is a promise he made to a childhood friend who died in his arms, which strikes me as a very Snake motivation. An Idealist would be more motivated by the cause of helping Ravka, and a Badger would focus on Ravkans being in need of good leadership. I think much of his character arc in Nikolai Duology makes sense through the lens of a Snake Primary moving his priorities, as Ravka as a whole becomes less important and Zoya becomes more important. His primary was very difficult for me to accurately gauge because I think he actively hides it behind his secondary performance. Once we’re in his head, his motivations are very focused on the individuals he cares about. I think he and Zoya also bond over this Snake Primary that was let down by their parents and so transferred their loyalty onto Ravka as a whole.

Initially, I thought he had a Snake Secondary. After all, Alina’s description of him being similar to a Matryoshka doll, always putting on different personas, is quintessential Snake Secondary. But when you actually look at how Nikolai solves problems, it isn’t with his charm or guile. Yes, he saves Alina by pretending to be Sturmhond, but they get into Ravka because he came up with a flying ship. In the last book, he saves the group because he just happened to have a secret military base he’d developed for a rainy day. In the Nikolai Duology, he literally came up with a plan for someone else to masquerade as him just in case he ever went missing. He solves his problems by pulling out some old tool or plan he’d previously developed on the off chance he’d need it. Total Bird Secondary. Now, Nikolai has a very good Snake Secondary model. It was something he developed in children to deal with his emotionally neglectful parents, by becoming whatever he had to be to get attention. But at his core, he’s an inventor, it’s what he enjoys doing, it’s what he does for fun, and it’s how he solves his problems.

The Darkling, who views ozatskaya and even other Grisha as beneath him is a Dark Badger Primary. To the Darkling, only the Grisha are human, and even then he still thinks of him and Alina as above other Grisha. When parts of the Second Army turn on him he dehumanises them in turn. There’s an argument for an unhealthy Lion Primary, who believes wholeheartedly that all the terrible things he does are justified and he’s the only one who can save Ravka. But building the Second Army and Little Palace as a place the Grisha could belong seems to me like a Badger Primary looking to build his community. It’s also explains why he can kill all these people and feel no guilt whatsoever because to him they’re not really people. In the Rule of Wolves he even explicitly says that he whilst he values human life in general he does not value human lives specifically.

The building of the Second Army is proof of his Badger Secondary. A skilled manipulator, he nevertheless uses genuine emotion and pieces of himself in the manipulation that I don’t think a Snake Secondary would find necessary. If you believe he did develop genuine feelings for Alina, then that would probably be a Badger Secondary who fell for his own performance. A Snake Secondary would probably have pretended to want a relationship with Alina without developing any feelings. His primary and secondary work together to explain why he was so affected by the Grisha turning against him. That’s his community, the community he built up from the ground, and when they turn on him he punishes them for their perceived disloyalty.

Zoya Nazyalensky is a Snake Primary whose circle includes the Second Army and eventually the whole of Ravka. There’s an argument that she’s a Badger Primary who might’ve been a little burned, and she does treat ozatskaya as lesser than Grisha, but I don’t see the evidence of dehumanisation. Her reason for turning against the Darkling is that he killed her aunt, her only family and to her mind the only person who loved her. A Badger Primary might’ve been more motivated by him massacring Novokribirsk as opposed to a particular loss. Also, her feelings of failure are specific to her feeling that she failed her people — failing to stop the Darkling from killing her aunt, failing to protect the Second Army, failing to stop Nina from being captured. Throughout the original trilogy she’s burned. She’s lost her only person and so latches on to what is hers — the Second Army, Ravka, the Little Palace. She protects these things because they’re hers not because of any ideal. In the Nikolai Duology she unburns and opens herself up to admitting more people to her circle (or admitting that they’re actually in her circle and she does care about them).

Zoya’s secondary was harder for me to pick. She’s definitely an improvisational secondary. We never see her making plans or being worried about being prepared, she just goes into dangerous situations and things work out for her. Snake Secondary in neutral state is possible. For the most part, she’s not particularly chargey for most of the original trilogy and could be a Snake that just doesn’t care. But she treats Nikolai’s Snake Secondary Model with awe and is, I think, too genuinely impressed by it to be a Snake Secondary herself. Lion Secondary makes more sense given that she’s a natural leader who inspires others more than makes herself likeable. The ending of Rule of Wolves also makes me lean towards Lion, since it’s her running headfirst to save Nina without any plan of attack and she doesn’t try to work her away around the situation like a Snake. She just runs straight into danger.

Genya Safin, who wants nothing more than to belong, is a Badger Primary searching for a community. It’s why she stays loyal to the Darkling even after he destroys Novokribirsk, because he gave her a community and sense of belonging, and she believes these things are reliant on her loyalty and service to him. For her secondary, probably Badger too. Like the Darkling, she falls into the trap of believing her own manipulations and actually becomes friends with Alina. Also, the fact she spent years working on her tailoring skills seems like a Badger to me.

David Kostyck, the quintessential inventor, has a glaring Bird Secondary. He’s the one who comes up with inventions, like the discs and the portable light, and is more comfortable in his lab than in the field. As for his primary, I think he might also be a Bird. He’s not a loyalist. If he was a Snake Primary then he probably wouldn’t have turned on the Darkling after Novokribirsk because Genya was still with him. He could be a Badger Primary who turned because of the massacre. But I think he’s a Bird Primary. He desires knowledge, not for the sake of power but purely because he wants to understand things. He strikes me as having a very decided morality. Merzost is bad because that’s a core Grisha teaching that he has adopted in his own system.

Tolya and Tamar are harder to sort because they get less screen time. Tolya’s probably double Lion, considering his concern with being honourable and his qualms with morally dubious actions. Also, his faith seems to me to be very felt and that is more Lion Primary. Considering his main role is as the muscle, definitely Lion Secondary. Tamar, who is totally okay with the morally dubious actions her brother abhors and, as of the Nikolai Duology, is in charge of spying is probably a Snake Secondary. Her motivations are less clear. Could be that she’s a Snake Primary who based her loyalties first of Alina then on Nikolai. She seems to be more attached to individuals than to any cause or country.

In summary:

Alina: Lion Primary/Lion Secondary

Mal: Snake Primary/Badger Secondary, Lion Secondary Performance

Nikolai: Snake Primary/Bird Secondary, Snake Secondary Model

The Darkling: Badger Primary/Badger Secondary, Snake Secondary Model

Zoya: Snake Primary/Lion Secondary

Genya: Badger Primary/Badger Secondary

David: Bird Primary/Bird Secondary

Tolya: Lion Secondary/Lion Secondary

Tamar: Snake Primary/Snake Secondary

#sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #character sorting #tgt #the grisha trilogy #shadow and bone #siege and storm #ruin and rising #alina starkov #mal oretsev #nikolai lantsov #the darkling #zoya nazyalensky #genya safin #david kostyk #tolya yul bataar #tamar yul bataar

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ornamental-coral · 3 years

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Do you have houses combos you love besides Snake Bird ?

Hi sorry it’s take me so long to get to you ‘nonnie human you. I promise if anyone sends me questions, I will get to them eventually! It just takes a while for me thinking about them, researching about them (doing Birdy Bird things with even a one-sentence question...), forgetting I have a sort-hat-chats centered tumblr account (which is... can sort of a Bird thing but also a me thing), and then coming back so we are here (there. somewhere)

I myself am a Snake-Bird. I think I’m pretty neat. Birds are usually very good at entertaining themselves. I think. And I’m lucky I like myself enough because I spend a lot of time with me haha.

I’m a little in love with a remarkable amount of Lion primaries, Snake secondaries and Bird primaries (especially with a Snake secondary to make them extra hard to hold onto *rolls eyes) and apparently I love writing Badger Primaries? I guess I find the challenge of building an “ideal” society that is willing to address the current failings of our timeline a worthwhile challenge and my ink-children rise from the ether to meet me.

I’ve expanded below bar because this is actually a really interesting concept to me - how does a particular house combination react to the others. Below is just my meandering through how specifically My Snake Primary Bird secondary might react on a surface level to the other house types. This doesn’t mean I’m right. There are as many ways of acting within the house system as there are human beings and keep in mind, this is all in good fun.

____________________

Lions

The Idealism of the Lion Primary is something that I find admirable. I posted a more extended musing on the position of Snake Birds within media here. I think the Snake in me understands that when you pick up a person the way Snakes do, you pick up a lot of their wants and regrets too. Snakes pick up People, so that means the whole package. A Lion with a worthy cause can be a very attractive thing to a Snake, who will follow and support them in a very specific kind of way.

With Double Lions, and Lion Snakes there’s that urge to run after them with a fire-extinguisher in one hand and a big stick in the other - one to put out the fires a Double Lion inevitably lights and the Lion Snake may try purposefully to stoke, and the other to beat off anyone who dares to tell your Lion that they cannot Be A Lion. That’s something only the Snake can do, and that’s only because no matter what the Snake says, the Lion is still Their Person warts and all and the Snake Bird knows damn well what they were getting into, or at least thought they did.

Lion Birds house-match secondaries with Snake Birds but can have explosively different moral codes, largely because they method match. I personally find some Lion Bird characters a little grating because as the audience, I feel I’m getting the same information as the Lion, but as a Snake I have a little too much self-preservation to imagine myself doing anything much about it - at least not the way a majority of Lion Bird characters act - or I come to different conclusion. I also hate conspiracy theories because they require leaps of logic the my Bird model typically just can’t tolerate but the felt-house Lion will participate in. However, Lion Birds can also be the hard-boiled PIs, the Best-at-their-Job secret agents (hi Agent Coulson), the one who has Seen the World and Still Believes It Can Be Saved. So that’s admirable and fun.

Lion Badgers are sweet but my Snake Bird goes “fires, fires everywhere”. And like, not the kind your Lion Snake might think is funny when the Snake Bird tries to put them out. Think Steve Rodgers. MCU Steve has a really strong Snake Performance though when it comes to Bucky which MY Snake finds really confusing because it is So Strong I’d be willing to be money he would have at least tried to find a better way to get rid of the Tesseract if Bucky hadn’t fallen from that train and been declared KIA. I think that particular type of Snake performance also confuses Tony, which is part of why Civil War was the way it was.

But yeah, a fire that a Lion Badger wants to light? it’s not going to go out. For a Snake, having that as Your Person means you either really ride or die for them - and might actually literally have to die, or you are keeping them from burning themselves out before they accomplish whatever they’re doing. For a Snake Bird? this is alarming as hell and it’s a fight between the Secondaries to make sure the Lion takes care of themselves as part of the Lion’s “hard work” Badger, if they’re your person.

Birds

Bird primaries will “build” the people they love into the way they see the world. As a Snake, I think this is just really appealing to me? Snakes are loyal, and older Snakes have the life experience to realize that - painful as it is - this loyalty will not always be reciprocated in the way you hope for (this is the stereotypical bone of contention between Lions, Badgers and Snakes. Lions are focused on their cause and if the Snake’s protective instincts get in the way of that, that causes problems It also hurts when a Lion’s mission supersedes their affection for their Snake people. Badgers’ concerns are for their communities and the split of attention can drive the individually focused Snake crazy). If you get built into the Bird’s world, that always felt like something special and something that took hard work, which made it all the more valuable.

My Snake Birds also likes to imagine it’s equipped to learn to the things that a Bird variety believes in and address those things. It’s the kind of relationship that has the potential to go very wrong, and I do realize that. I think Snake Birds have the tendency to want to be everything for Their Person (or people) and our powers of observation mean that we take it a little personally when we’ve missed something. I’m tempted to call Kaz Brekker of Six of Crows a Snake Bird and it drives him to distraction that he can’t be everything, everywhere, all at once to the handful of a people he truly and deeply cares about.

The Bird Snake in particular house matches in a way that can be particularly challenging and attractive to a Snake Bird? A Snake Bird’s tool is, well, the Bird, and the whole persona can feel ridiculously pleased by being able to “pin down” the Bird Snake, which does not necessarily lend itself to being pinned. There’s also this strong urge to understand the Bird Snake.

So there’s the Snake secondary who delights in finding new ways to be, and a Bird Secondary delights in learning new things. The discovery element in that relationship can, as long as the Bird Secondary is not stifled by the Snake Primary’s concern, actually be really rewarding. Birds, and Bird Snakes in particular are also often really unique. They think differently, act differently, can be off putting to certain types of house combinations because their moral code can come off is so blue-orange, and is Built on top of that. Snakes take great pride in being very “this is my Person and their brand of weirdness is just another thing I love about them. And on top of that, I Know them.” with their people in any situation, and if a Snake can eventually prove to their Bird Primary that that feeling is unwavering, that’s a relationship that becomes central to both Snake and Bird.

That isn’t to say Birds can’t go dark, but usually they learn to be that way given Birds are evidence-gatherers. Unfortunately, this means I love them too because people of my generation and all generations before and hence have a thing for characters with trauma (see Loki, greasy prince extraordinaire). It’s -- it’s never not been a thing. Take a look at freaking Gilgamesh, which is the oldest things that we know of, look at Enkidu, and tell me he wasn’t your favorite. Gilgamesh is kind an arschloch of highest proportions. As a more palatable example of this Bird-villain thing, I sort of suspect Bucky Barnes is a Bird of some flavor. If he killed one person as the Winter Soldier, he’d feel bad but probably admit it was the brain washing - but he did it dozens of times. He wonders what does this say about him? He is possibly a Badger, but even pre-winter-soldier he doesn’t seem to care on as wide a scale as a Badger typically does. Steve is Built into the fabric of his world, and he doesn’t react to Steve’s death the way I expect a Snake to either. Maybe a really Old Seasoned Snake and I mean technically he’s old? but the cryogenics thing sort of means he’s not old enough to just let it go. He also doesn’t follow the boy from Brooklyn for reasons I would expect from a fellow Snake but I guess the new show might give more insight on that once I actually watch it.

Badgers

Okay, I like writing Badgers. [Leans back on chaise lounge] this probably has something to do with my mother.

Really though. I model Badger because my mother, although I love her and I’m really lucky to have her, is a teeny tiny bit horrified by Snake tendencies and drilled into me the morality that it is okay and it is above all Good to care about other people (for other Snakes, read Yes Even Strangers). To be fair, the prioritizing that Snakes do (which can get as focused as ”My people first, even if someone else far away is in trouble and I am acutely aware of it”) can seem pretty horrific to a Badger. They don’t necessarily get how you could believe everyone is a person and just... not care. And it’s hard to convince a Badger (for whom not acting can = they are not worth it) that you know exactly what you’re doing but are also aware that if you try to help everyone your head will explode because you can’t keep that many People up there. It’s why Snakes have their rings of caring.

But the result is that for me, Badgers are usually the ones left standing at the end of the story. If they’re done dirty, I like to try and fix it.

I don’t like how media treats Badger primaries generally though? There’s often something “goofy” or the Badger is treated as soft in a really unpalatable way. I mean, and to be fair this directly comes from the way a Snake can sort of be flummoxed with the way Badgers just do things for strangers, yes Badgers irl may be considered gentle. On an individual level, they are often the hearts and hearths of groups and homes. But there’s this weird place where The State is supposed to be a Badger-shaped institution, so that uneasy balance comes out in weird ways.

I don’t remember who said it, but the difference with Badgers and Snakes is that, with a Snake, you start out at Zero. You’re human, but you’re not the Snake’s human, so I will treat you like a human, but there are My People above you. And with a Badger, you sort of start out at like 85-100%? At least this is my perception. Badgers need-base and that off-balances Snakes.

A Snake with a Badger in my opinion needs to be “eyes open” in a different way than even a Snake with a Bird does, because the Snake needs to understand that the Badger is going to look and act similar - until they don’t, and then the Snake needs to be able to put aside the part of them that was attracted to the mirrored morality and actually work with the Badger to figure out what the Snake needs and how the Snake can in turn support the Badger.

Anyways though, I’m writing a thing where a Badger Bird-modeling-Badger is the last woman standing, committed to fixing a broken type of organization that her Snake, Bird, and Lion companions are Tired of. Lady Badger is nothing if not resilient. I’m writing another thing where a really really Burnt Badger man gets a safe place to learn to be part of a community that is meant to be mutually protective again (he dies because this is a fan work and that’s what happened in cannon, and this is arguably because he’s still unburning at that stage and doesn’t Have a proper community, but I hope to show him having at least Some happy times because in the sh**show show he didn’t have any at all). I’ve got a slightly less developed thing where a number of Badger performing princes learn to work together to fix their kingdom and unbury the history that created it.

Aaand It’s nearing midnight, I have clearly lost the thread of the thread or whatever

Goodniiight to all my houses. Love you all even if I didn’t write about you here.

-Ornamental

#ornamental answers #ask answered #snake primary #bird secondary #House interactions #lion primary #Bird Primary #badger primary #wip sorts #late night posts #sortinghatchats

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wisteria-lodge · 10 months

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snake primary (bird model?) + unBurning lion secondary

+ bonus mini-sortings of Wednesday Addams and Indiana Jones

Hi! I really enjoy reading about the SHC system, and decided to write a structured SortMe submission (at last). My Secondary is what I’m struggling a lot with. As a kid, I was very bossy towards friends, and could not stand not being the leader of my group and leading the games we play. I loved making up games based on this video game/book series/tv show to play with them, and there was A LOT of improvisation (following my whims).

Well, little you sounds like a pretty classic Lion secondary.

My group broke apart later due to me being too domineering. Later, I moved to a country where I couldn’t speak the language properly and became quite withdrawn, shifting into an introvert completely (still am). Regarding friends, I went along with whatever they wanted to do, almost all of the time. I had one really good friend though, but I maltreated her kindness by reverting to my domineering self around her.

Huh. Well, it sounds like your secondary burned. "Domineering" is an extremely negative way to talk abuot a Lion secondary, and well... I can't help but think there was a little bit more to this friend-group break up, especially since you were the "bossy" leader the whole time. You're talking, basically, about your Lion secondary not "working" anymore (not being able to speak the language would contribute to this) and that's a burned secondary. So you get quiet, you get passive, because doing more than that feels risky.

In high school, I was the furthest thing from leadership, and shifted from group to group, never liking any groups or the idea of groups. Those who aren’t close to me would say that I’m shy (I would disagree - I’m just not good at communicating with people I don’t know well, or multiple people at a time). A close few (mentor included) would say that I’m opinionated.

There have definitely been some Loyalist (snake) primary vibes so far. Your really good friend, your mentor, wanting to join groups but that not really working as a long term thing for you.

I really enjoy talking about what I think and what I believe with my mentor, as well as abstract ideas and philosophy, but rarely with my friends because I don’t enjoy arguing about it with them. I stopped caring about social media and maintaining social connections, unlike most of my peers, because the connections felt too temporary, and yielded little rewards for the time I spent. I do enjoy spending time with friends, but there are friendship issues popping up all the time (fickleness and selfishness- I’m seeing the selfishness in people clearer now).

I could see this a couple of ways. Like this could be a slightly hedonistic Burnt Snake. You want those Snake connections (and not the more Badger-style ones, which don't feel like enough to you.) But, they seem hard to come by, so you've been editing. You've got someone who is on your wavelength, and you're getting more philosophical and internal.

Of course, this could also mean that you're a Bird in the process of building a (less social) system. And who could be more important in that process like a philosophically minded mentor?

I now spend my spare time (non-studying) reading fiction, playing video games (immersing in a different world), delving into systems such as MBTI, SHC to learn more about people, and reading game guides (stat optimisation, etc. REALLY ENJOYABLE).

So we're having fun with systems, which generally means some Bird somewhere.

Now I am literally the opposite of the description of Inspirational secondaries - especially Lions. Regarding problem solving, I find it hard to think of situations (searched google for ‘examples of problem solving’). I feel like the problems that I’m involved in are almost always solved by others, and I can’t offer anything valuable.

This is extremely burnt secondary talk - I *can't* solve problems. I promise, if you play video games, you solve problems.

Once I broke a certain rule (for about the third time) and was going to have something taken away the next morning. So during the night I thought about what I knew about that person (doing the deed) and tried putting myself in their shoes, and what I could say and what responses it could yield. The preparation made me feel better but I barely used any of it the next day — I reacted to what the person said and ?adapted? and lied (with a heart rate of 200 or so) and was successful in preventing them.

So... you did the Lion thing, and it worked for you. It sounds like when your secondary burnt you did build a Bird secondary model (stat optimization guides - very bird primary.) The Bird is a toy, a support system, and it can make you feel less anxious.

I think when I’m really desperate and have no time to prepare for a serious problem (to me), I resort to lying. However, I don’t lie often and would even be actively honest in everyday life to improve my “reputation”

It is a Lion secondary thing to not like lying, and do it as little as possible so as to build up a reputation for not lying (or to want to do that, anyway)

and prevent anyone from pointing out my lies and judging me.

Hmmm. Who's judging you? Who's thinking you're a bad person? Where is this coming from?

Whenever I’m stressed or under pressure, I become really unresponsive and appear emotionless. In conflicts with others, my mind often goes blank and I just let them speak,

This is just a human thing. Fight/flight/freeze/fawn - you freeze.

because I can’t say anything clever enough that won’t be shut down.

Again with some external force coming down on you. This might be part of the reason your secondary burned.

I really, really envy and admire Snakes who shift based on the situation and are able to create masks (I’m just like a rock).

It sounds like you're a Lion secondary who doesn't really like the idea of being a Lion secondary.

I also envy Lion Secondaries but feel annoyed by them - like how can they be so honest and straightforward?

It is really, REALLY normal to be burned and find un-Burned annoying, naive, impractical.

If I experience conflict with my parents, I almost never argue (because I can’t beat their ”logic” - which is: “you’re my child, you can’t argue with our authority”).

Got it. You've got some authoritarian parents who shut you down. Sorry to hear that. No wonder you're struggling with some of this stuff.

I recently watched Netflix’s Wednesday, and I really admire the protagonist’s quick thinking and speedy comebacks. I felt that she didn’t need to be so straightforward and blunt, but it was… so cool. She had no problem TALKING BACK TO PEOPLE. Ideal me would have razor sharp wits backed by an abundance of knowledge (rapidfire Bird or Snake) (but alas).

Wednesday Addams is a very loud Lion secondary. I suspect she's a unBurning Snake Lion - which is a sorting you might want to consider for yourself. She is extremely protective of the handful of people she considers Hers - her character introduction where she drops the piranhas into the pool because the swim team was bullying Pugsley could not be more Snake Lion. But she has trouble finding people who *get* her (to the degree where she's started to think that those people don't exist) - and that's burnt Snake. We also see her Lion secondary coming through in her problems with her mother - Morticia adores her life, and she's sending Wednesday down the same path she took, which Wednesday resents. She values the Lion secondary authenticity too much. She wants to be *herself* and make her *own* calls, even if that means she fails.

I was reading about neutral states, and I wouldn’t say I have different personas for different people and situations. Generally, the less close I am to a person the more polite and quiet I’ll be.

the "dimmer switch" Lion secondary metaphor

However, I notice that if I’m spending a decent amount of time with someone one on one (almost never happens in a group), then I’ll revert back to my neutral state (unconsciously). There are some boundaries, though (e.g I can never sing or dance in front of any of my friends, but I do it all the time at home).

Hmm. So when you trust someone... the lion comes out? That's good.

When studying, I want to make sure I cover all of the points (objectives) that will be tested. I never study/revise for something that isn’t going to be tested (too extra), and I rarely study without outside pressure (upcoming DEADLINES) for something that I’m not interested in, even if it would benefit me in the long term. I like having a frame to work with, and going on from there by myself. I quite often create plans (timetable, study timeline, exercise…) but almost never fulfil them due to laziness and lack of motivation. The more detailed it is, the more I hate it.

You have a Bird model... which you think you're supposed to have... and which you kind of hate using for this stuff. And you're definitely using adrenaline to hack your brain into doing non-preferred tasks

The only time I remember completing a planned goal was the Nanowrimo 50k novel in a month challenge - where I stopped halfway but picked it back up and got to 50k words before the month ended. I like having that “you can write whatever you want but as long as you reach a word count, and even if you miss a couple of days it’s fine”.

This is good information. You like your frameworks to be loose, you like room to pivot - write one bit today, another bit tomorrow, you're not feeling it the third day, and that's fine.

I have never made a really difficult decision, but generally speaking I would weigh the pros and cons of each choice and kind of imagine what would happen if I picked that. HOWEVER, from experience life never goes the way I try to predict, and doing that is kind of useless :’)

Spoken like an improvisational secondary. And honestly, in a philosophical way I agree with you... but my Badger still wants to make those plans anyway.

I would also ask the people around me for their thoughts on the matter to build more perspectives and cover my blind spots.

Very smart, just for problem solving in general. Probably means you're not a Lion primary though... who kinda like to make important decisions without the static of other perspectives.

Regarding fantasies (my favourite part of this submission), I like to imagine myself as a mage who studies in a grand academy filled with intricacies and travels to investigate ancient ruins and magical places with close friends/intellectual equals. I would work on discovering the arcane mysteries of the universe, weave poetry and art about bygones (heavily LOTR inspired). The close friend is pretty prominent in my fantasies (snake vibes?) but also is a search for adventure and meaning. Real-life based fantasies are generally snake secondaries and other-world based fantasies generally bird.

Your fantasy is to be Indiana Jones (but also a wizard, and an artist.) That's a pretty Lion secondary fantasy. And I know you didn't specifically name-check Indy, but I suspect he's a Snake Lion as well. I will admit that he does look like a Bird primary a lot, but that's because his People are generally safe/offscreen. When he DOES have to choose between them and the arcane secrets of the universe - he chooses his people. UNLIKE his villains. Lot of Bird primary villains in that franchise.

I love playing RPG games A LOT (Zelda, Dragon Age, Genshin). I’m more into the exploring aspect than saving the world, but I become attached to individual characters along the journey.

... like Indy :D

I’m not a big fan of warrior types of characters in fiction, such as She-ra (Badger Lion) uniting a rebellion to fight evil — I instead relate to Entrapta (Double Bird) who doesn’t really care about the conventional good vs evil and would go along with joining the Horde if that benefitted her cause. But I don’t have her impressive collection of knowledge on what she’s passionate about (tech). To a lesser degree, I also relate with Catra (Double Snake?), who cares about individuals much more than groups and doesn’t understand She-Ra/Adora’s goal of fighting for the good and for the people. But I definitely don’t have her flexibility and smarts in problematic situations.

I would definitely check out the SHC Podcast She-Ra sorting... especially because they make a very good case that Catra is only modeling a Snake secondary, and underneath she's a burned Lion secondary.

I feel powerful in a situation when I’m thoroughly prepared…?

Do you really though? You talk about being super prepared as being annoying and stressful "kind of useless" and something you "barely use."

But that almost never happens and is quite temporary because don’t like thoroughly preparing for a situation, and anything unexpected can throw me off completely. Like this chess game I played (I’m horrible at chess - quick thinking and meticulous planning - enjoy it though and wish I was good), where I planned this sequence of moves to make to win, but the opponent kept making unexpected moves and I would become fixated on my sequence and, well, lose.

It sounds like you think that you should have Bird secondary... and so have a Bird secondary model that doesn't seem to help you much.

I’ve taken the SHC quiz several times and have gotten both Lion and Bird Primary (Lion more often, but I’m quite convinced of being a Bird).

Bird is still very possible - you haven't talked about your primary much - but I would definitely consider Snake. From what I've read here... I've been getting Snake.

I’ve tested as every Secondary (burnt?) because I found the questions hard to answer.

Yeah, definitely Burnt. But there's a Lion secondary under there, and you're in the process of unBurning, especially around certain people.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my overly long submission (filled with brackets). It took me a couple of days to think and write and cut out sections, and I kind of have a vague idea of my sorting and how you’ll sort me — looking forward to reading your analysis though. Sorry about the unnecessary details in advance. Have a nice day (or evening)!

You're very welcome, and you did a great job writing this.

#submission #wisteria sorts #sortme #sortinghatchats #shc #lion secondary #burnt lion secondary #snake lion #snake primary #bird primary #bird secondary model

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intheseautumnhands · 3 years

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SHC: Oxventures in the Dark, revisited

When I sat down and sorted the Oxventurers guild, I did some quick bonus thoughts on the Blades in the Dark characters as well. That was after episode two; episode six wrapped up today, and while that’s still not super deep into the show, we’re out of phase one, we’ve tripled the hours of canon to work with, and everyone’s gotten at least three adventures under their belt.

Basically, it seems like a good time to poke at the first impressions, take stock of what’s developed so far, and put down some further thoughts. I may see about doing this again after we finish either the current phase, or just have enough extra material that I feel like I can be more conclusive overall. I do have tentative sortings for all of them, but I could see opinions changing over the next phase.

This got rambly-long despite my mild efforts to not, so I’m going to put it under a jump. Beware some small spoilers for The Gut Cutter Bargain if you’re coming here before catching up.

Barnaby

Initial impression: Despite having gotten through two episodes now basically saving the day by being himself, I don’t get Lion Secondary vibes from him – actually, I’m thinking he could end up a Badger Secondary, just extremely far on the Courtier Badger side of the scale, and one that’s very full of himself. Not sure on that yet, though. Primary: no idea, but probably not Badger.

It’s still kind of hard to get a read on Barnaby’s primary. I feel like we haven’t seen him take anything seriously enough to get a glimpse at his motivations. So far all we’ve got behind his choice to go into crime is “bored curiosity” and that tells me nothing. He could be an Idealist with a very selfish/want-based moral system or truth. But he could also be a loyalist who has no real experience of his community/inner circle being in real need, and therefore does whatever he wants, and could even get a shock when he does find himself in a position where his loyalist instincts have a reason to kick in. (I lean Snake if we get those vibes, but I could also see him as a Badger who’s dehumanized the lower classes.)

At the moment I’m leaning towards idealist, though how and if he reacts if any of the others really need his help might change that. If it’s Bird, I get the impression it’s a system that’s basically been inherited wholesale from his family and position and that if there’s going to be any questioning and changing, it’s going to be sparked by the others and his upcoming experiences. But I’m currently leaning more towards a very self-serving Lion primary; I don’t get that Bird need to dissect impulses and rationalize decisions from him at this point.

Secondary: Well, he’s not a Bird, because he doesn’t really think or plan at all. While he keeps going into scores and basically playing himself, I still really don’t get Lion Secondary vibes from him. Despite how unlikely he is to play a role, he very clearly “subverts, negotiates, and cajoles”, he just does it while being himself instead of putting on any kind of mask.

That leaves us with the fluid secondaries: Snake and Badger. While Snake seems to fit with his role in the party and his playbook.... I still just don’t quite see it? He doesn’t adapt. He plays crucial roles in the scores he’s been in so far by aggressively being social in an extremely high-class, rich way. I get the feeling that to a lot of the people he deals with, Barnaby can be pretty charming -- but we only get glimpses of that because the context that charm works in is not the one the rest of the party sees him in. A Snake might be able to shift how he comes off to get along with the rest of them better, even if he doesn’t change completely.

The complete unwillingness to play a role he doesn’t like, the ability to make friends and convince people of what he wants but only when he’s in his element, the investment in his reputation -- it all reads very strongly as a Courtier Badger to me, I just don’t think he cares about things outside his reputation enough to put that Badger work into it. (I think it’s also interesting that, despite him complaints in general, when he gets literally assigned a role to play for the big score, he doesn’t so much as complain. Maybe that’s changing to include crime?)

Edvard

Initial impression: If Edvard the inventor is not a Bird Secondary, I will eat my hat. I could see him going the way of the traditional SHC impulsive scientists who do things For Science, and ending up in Lion/Bird territory, or going towards Bird/Bird; at the moment I don’t think he’ll be a loyalist, but we’ll see!

I’m still leaning towards an idealist Primary. It fits with his motivations for going into criminal work. I don’t get the sense of bonding or people-focus that a loyalist might have, or the guilt or separation that could lean towards a burnt loyalist. I get the feeling he’s starting to enjoy at least some of the others, getting along with them fine, but they’re still more a means to an end to him. It’s also worth noting that, besides Barnaby, I think he’s expressed the least worry or thought for people in general, whether the party, the people they’ve put in danger, or the people they’re stealing from. I could be persuaded towards Snake depending on future behavior, but I’m pretty firm on the side of idealist right now.

I ran through the primary part of the official quiz because I was still waffling overall, and while I still think personality and motivation is not quite set in stone, it did give me Lion Primary. That’s where I was leaning to begin with; I can’t quite articulate why I don’t get Bird Primary vibes, but he does come off as much more of a self-serving Lion to me overall so far.

Secondary: I’m starting to think I need a term for Bird Secondaries who have invested so heavily into one particular skillset that they end up overly reliant on it, and sometimes trying to force it even when it’s not a perfect fit. (All my brain is providing is Hammer Birds, as in, ‘when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail’.) That’s how I’m seeing Edvard with his inventions. I do think he picks up on ideas/openings/cues in a fairly Bird way overall; it’s just, if there’s even the slightest chance it can be solved by machine, it’s gonna be his first choice of solution. He also has the ‘ooh shiny thing I care about I want to learn more’ pattern that feels Bird to me -- stuff like wandering off at Cab Con because look at all the inventions! He does seems to be pretty rapid-fire overall, if a little bit distractible when things that interest him are around, and to be good at picking up other ways at handling things when he has to.

Lilith

Initial impression: I was going to say Bird Secondary because she’s leaning so hard into the intellectual, but so far she has tried to solve problems by befriending a ghost girl and convincing the workers to start a union so…. I’m feeling some Badger/Lion or Lion/Badger vibes coming off her at this point. She might slide into a more Bird-y role in the future, or it might end up looking more like a model.

I had the firmest impressions on Lilith when I initially posted, and overall my impression has not changed with plan “befriend the pained ghosts and try to unionize them for Revenge!” While she’s clearly intelligent, and inclined towards research and planning, there’s something extremely hands-on and people-focused about how she handles actual situations.

Her Lion Primary, like the above two (very idealist criminal gang we’ve got going here), is less “laws good” or even “crime bad”, but she does seem to have more of an active moral code that we’ve seen so far. In the first episode they say she’s from a more noble family, but has decided it’s better to make her own way now that she’s away from them, which seems like it could easily lean into some kind of very Lion reasoning -- either something to do with not taxing her family resources, or maybe proving herself to them. She apparently has strong feelings about workers conditions? (Please let Lilith’s attempts to unionize all of Volisport, including the dead, become a running subplot/gag.) She leaves a man she knocked out snacks as an apology!

And jumping off from there: She also clearly cares about people specifically, and (parallel to Barnaby, which is interesting and I hope we get more of them) seems to have some of her best moments by connecting with them, whether they’re dead or living. While that could point more towards a Badger Primary, the specific way it manifests is by patiently connecting to them, in a way that leads me towards Badger Secondary. She also seems to do well so far being pointed towards a thing she either knows how to or can figure out how to do, and being given room to dig in and do it, in a way that feels very Badger to me -- it doesn’t feel like a charge or quick adaptability, it’s just, here’s my job, let me figure out how to get it done.

Kasimir

Initial impression: Between his class/playbook being about having his fingers in a lot of crime pies, Johnny saying he’s not really good at anything besides crime, and his slight mentor-y vibe in episode one, I’m getting Badger Secondary or Bird Secondary vibes – leaning Badger right now, but we’ll see. He doesn’t strike me as a Lion Primary at this point, but we’ll see.

Okay, I lied a little when I said I had an idea for everyone: I still have no clue what Kasimir’s Primary is.

We still don’t really know why Kasimir is in this business. We have at least a basic idea for everyone else, even if that reason is ‘bored’. For Kasimir, it seems to be ‘it’s what I’ve always done’, but that doesn’t tell us how he got there. Lack of options? Helping someone else (who is likely long gone)? Rationalized it as the best option? No idea yet. I hope we get some idea of it later, and I think that’ll help.

Right now, I sort of have the feeling that whatever it is, if it’s not actively Burnt, it is at least stagnant. As a Bird, his truth isn’t something that he’s had to test or reconsider in a long time; as a Badger, he might pay some lip service towards his fellow criminals as a community, but he doesn’t invest heavily in it right now; as a Snake, he’s currently lacking a real circle outside himself, and has at least convinced himself that works for him. (I really don’t think he’s a Lion, even one with an entirely self-serving/all for themselves moral compass, though I won’t totally rule it out at this point.)

Meta reasoning, but I’m leaning slightly towards loyalist because of something Johnny mentioned at the end of the (at this moment) latest Oxventure podcast episode -- that Kasimir started at a very ‘I know what I’m doing, I’m better at this than all of you’ position, but that it’s not very fun for a character to stay there for long, so he’s viewing every score as a chance for Kasimir to start bonding with the others. Because of that, he has seemed to be warming up to and investing more in the others pretty rapidly, even if it is in a way that sort of waits for them to earn his respect, and that leans me a little towards a loyalist who’s just been lacking a community/circle for a while. That said, a Bird whose truth includes judging people on usefulness could also work.

Secondary: I continue to lean heavily towards Bird. He can lie very well, but it’s in a way that feels more like an actor than a Snake’s adaptability or a Badger’s active connection to people. He prepares -- having the ID badge to play inspector, learning cabbie lingo in case he needs to blend in -- and he almost seems to step into specific roles. I get the feeling he knows very well what he can pass as and what he can’t, and takes that into careful consideration while a Snake would be a little more, well, fluid with the roles they consider.

He always is prepared in some way -- always goes in loaded down with things, lots of preplanning and thinking ahead. And while the description at the top of the first episode says he’s “good at [crime] and not much else”, he also apparently designed and built his cane on his own, which a complex thing to do. (And the sense of “I want this exactly as I want it, so I’m going to learn how to do it myself” I get from that choice seems like such a Bird thing to me.)

(If not Bird, I still say Badger’s my second choice. He gets down in the muck, often literally, and does what needs to be done. In contrast to both the other Badgers above, I think he’d learn towards more of a Bookkeeper Badger -- but he does seem to have a decent reputation among Volisport’s criminals, and I mean, if the way he interacted with the child gang is any indication of how he interacts with other gangs normally, he seems to make friends within his own wheelhouse pretty well. Maybe a model, even? I could see him as a Bird who, while not exactly burnt, doesn’t necessarily trust his own intelligence even as he relies on his planning and preparation, and thinks of himself as more of a ‘buckle down and do it’ type.)

Zillah

Initial impression: I think we know less about Zillah than anyone else at this point, but we do know that, one, she’s doing crime to get money for her family, and two, she seems pretty level-headed. I’m thinking maybe a Lion Secondary, leaning away from Bird Primary but at this point could see anything else.

Zillah’s reasoning being her family strikes me as extremely loyalist. She’s expressed some mild moral issues with stealing even though she’s still doing it, and with the general way she interacts with the boxers and fans in episode five, I could see her having the general interest in fairness and people that speaks towards Badger. That said, she is doing things for her people, and her slight moral question with stealing doesn’t stop her from doing it. I think she might be a Snake, but one who has a pretty comfortable Badger model that she lives in until there’s something that specifically affects her inner circle.

If I had any doubts on the Secondary, they were gone the second that she started choking out Dimmer Sisters. Zillah likes violence and doesn’t come up with elaborate plans, and she honestly seems pretty at peace with herself over the fact. This is really short compared to everoyne else, but honestly she seems pretty straight-forward so far. I could see something coming out in the future that changes my mind, but of all of them, Zillah’s the one whose sorting I feel most certain about right now.

Roundup as of Episode Six:

Barnaby: Lion Primary/Badger Secondary (heavy on the Courtier Badger side of the scale) Edvard: Lion Primary/Bird Secondary Lilith: Lion Primary/Badger Secondary (Bird Secondary model) Kasimir: burnt, probably loyalist Primary/Bird Secondary (possibly Badger Secondary model) Zillah: Snake Primary (Badger Primary model)/Lion Secondary

Brief comparisons that amuse me: If this stands as I believe it does so far, only Zillah house-shares with any of the original Oxventure team (Egbert, although his model is Lion. Kasimir could house-share with Prudence and Corazon if he’s a Snake though). Of the four who play in both, none of them have identical houses to their D&D characters, but Corazon & Edvard and Merilwen & Lilith both share secondaries, while Prudence & Zillah share a Primary (minus the model), meaning Mike’s the only one playing a completely different house set.

#oxventure #oxventure in the dark #sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats #once again i ramble far too much about a cross-section of interests i may be the only person interested in #but whatever i LOVE these characters and also it's interesting to track thoughts and impressions #one day i will be able to do one of these without overexplaining myself #(also uh. my favorite character may be slightly obvious but shh. no regrets.)#secret bonus sorting thought 1: the lack of snake secondaries kind of amuse me given how much social stealth they do #sbst2: i honestly lean badgerbird for kasimir so far? but i feel like that may be personal bias #as that would mean i share my sorting with him entirely model and all and he IS my clear favorite so. yeah.#we will see where thoughts lie at the end of phase two!#if anyone happens to have thoughts or disagreements or whatever please feel free to share :D #also if the anon in my inbox is reading this:#i am DEFINITELY planning to sort alice and i've wanted to since starting it #but this is only my second listen through so i want to listen to the whole show again first #i just finished season one so you WILL get a response it just may be a while yet #m: magic and ghosts and danger and death

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the-phoenix-heart · 3 years

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Sorting Hat Chats - Animaniacs

THOSE ARE THE FACTS!

(How did you know I was working on this?)

Anyway, welcome to my new hyperfixation! So obviously I decided to sort them. Description of the system I’m using here as sometimes.

Also, the movie Wakko’s Wish has questionable canonicity, seeing as it takes place in another universe and it could said is just a movie the Animaniacs did in universe, but seeing as this was made by the same people as an excuse to give their characters a happy ending after the cancelation of the show-I’m going to say it counts for characterization. They’re pretty much the same characters, just in a different story.

I should also mention that as toons, they’ve modeled every secondary out there, so their secondary sorting is to find their actual sorting under all the modeling and performance.

YAKKO WARNER was the easiest to sort. He’s a Snake primary, here for his family, maybe Dr. Scratchansniff, and that’s about it. He’s the oldest, it makes sense. I mean, in Wakko’s Wish he literally gets a promotion to parent. That scene at the beginning where he and Dot are just sitting at the train station, implied to be sleeping there to, as they wait for Wakko to get home-FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR-it’s so soft and easy to forget about with later scenes but it shows how much they love him.

Anyway, Yakko is extremely protective and needs to be around his family. His fear in the IT parody is being alone with no one to talk to him, and his first worry after is he funny is where his siblings have been. Plus, he doesn’t really show a strong preference for the rest of the primaries.

I know that the first thought for the Animaniacs is that he’s a Snake secondary like Bugs Bunny, but remember, they’ve had every secondary as a model/performance ever. Yakko, I believe, is a Bird secondary through and though.

Yakko has the most songs of his siblings, and seeing as a joke in the reboot was that he kept trying to sing his educational songs and he kept getting interrupted-he clearly loves doing them. Yakko’s World, Every Word in the English Dictionary, Time, Multiplication, these are things that he clearly studied for the songs and require extreme memorization (I mean every country in the world and every world in the english language??). He also almost always has his lines memorized, and his sister’s, and probably Wakko’s. Part of his problem with Nicklewise is the fact that no one is acknowledging what he’s saying, and then he’s tongue tied. One of the first things he does when he gets back to the lot is swallow a tablet and learns everything about the past 22 years.

When describing himself in “To be like us” he literally starts it off, “To be like me? Well buddy here’s the key/use the pen not the sword when you’re in a fight.”

When he does just charge in like a Lion he loses. Plus, dad jokes and puns are just a Bird thing. If you have a Bird secondary you are going to have an appreciation for wordplay, trust me I’m a Bird secondary.

DOT WARNER is an actual Snake secondary. She’s the unprepared one. She doesn’t know her lines, and she didn’t practice her song on the first ladies before she sung it, which is how she learns that you cannot give a significant amount of time to each first lady in two minutes-and she didn’t even remember them all.

This exchange is peak Bird v. Snake:

Dot: “It’s a little ditty I’ve composed detailing the accomplishments of the women behind the men...Every single first lady of the United States of America! Please put two minutes on the clock!” Yakko: “Oh, no no no no no. Hold on. You’re going to sing about every First Lady in two minutes? Have you practiced this?” Dot, possibly sarcastic but probably telling the truth: “Well no, I have not.”

She’s also the one who always uses how cute she is to get people to do what she wants. The big scene of Wakko’s Wish is Dot pretending to die so effectively that she fooled everyone but (maybe) Yakko and Wakko, and even made the guy who “killed” her feel remorse for his actions. Also, in the intro she’s described in the original as cute and in the new one as witty-which that combination feels very Snake.

Unlike her brother Dot is a Lion primary. It might be a new addition for the reboot, but if she wasn’t originally a Lion primary I think this is just a case of character progression. In the show she calls out people for being sexist or mansplaining, and (possibly my favorite segment) has her singing about women getting the right to vote. The great thing is that this segment addresses the fact that just because women got the right to vote didn’t mean every woman could vote, because she finds out that as a toon she can’t vote. In less than a day she brings together Looney Toons and Hanna Barbera cartoons to go to Washington and lobby congress for the right to vote. And wins.

Yeah, Dot don’t play around. Also she calls out fear-mongering (Had to fit that in somewhere).

WAKKO WARNER (YES I KNOW HE’S THE MIDDLE CHILD BUT HE HAS THE LONGEST SECTION) was the hardest for me to sort out. Literally of course. He didn’t feel like any of the primaries to me for a while and what I really needed to look at was Wakko’s Wish. In Wakko’s Wish he’s the one telling everyone that they have to keeping hoping for something better and never give up while his siblings seem to be more out for themselves. Wakko’s the one who interacts most with the town as a whole. He gives Plotz a drink of the elixir after Plotz just tried to murder him and his siblings. There’s also a good argument to be made that Wakko wished for the ability to give everyone in the town what they wanted. He didn’t need to wish for a second ha’ penny, but he has it and it helps the town return to prosperity, which is why I rule him as a Badger primary.

You can also notice it in the original series with how he interacts with other people, but we don’t have enough time to talk about that since we still have to talk about his secondary. Fucking hell his secondary. Wakko’s secondary is the hardest to parse out of them all. It’s opposite problem I had with his primary, he fits all of them.

Like I said earlier, they have models for all the secondaries because they’re toons and they have to get into a lot of situations. But there are certain secondaries they favor over others which help you to see what the real secondary there is under all the models and performances. But the problem I ran into with Wakko is he uses all of them at a ready amount!

I first considered that he was a Bird secondary because of his gag bag, or the clown episode with his extremely well thought out ideas on how to torture the poor clown (don’t feel too sorry for him he’s very annoying), and segments like Wakko’s Gizmo. In Wakko’s Gizmo he builds this very overly complicated and super badass device just so he can make a whoopie cushion go off. But that was what tipped me off, it’s a toy. Wakko’s Bird secondary is just a model he has as a toy, something to have fun with (I won’t say he got it from Yakko but he got it from Yakko). Plus, Wakko’s just to intuitive and spontaneous for an actual Bird secondary. The way he uses his gag bag is just in a way where he just understands what to get.

The fact that that he’s very intuitive with his gag bag and impulsive also set me off that he wasn’t a Badger secondary. Of all the secondaries he uses this one the least in the original series. However, interestingly, this is the only secondary he uses in Wakko’s Wish. He works his ass off for a year to make a ha’ penny to pay for Dot’s operation, he makes the wish on the star, he plays sort of a peace maker with the town and others. It’s something he used more specifically for that movie though.

The big debate was whether he was a Snake or a Lion, but-BUT-I’m gonna be kind of controversial and say that he has a Lion secondary. Yes-he’s very situational, but his go to course of action is to hit people with his mallet. Plus, the way he uses his gag bag is he just goes for it, because he feels it. He’s always in the moment, which is how he’s able to use his gag bag. Also, there’s a difference between the way Dot and he usually do things, if they were both Snake secondaries they’d look more similar, but they don’t. And he doesn’t always have what’s needed for the situation, he needs to feel around for it. I could be talked into a Snake secondary but for now I’m pretty happy with Lion.

So...

Yakko Warner - Snake primary/Bird secondary, has all models and performances

Dot Warner - Lion primary/Snake secondary, has all models and performances

Wakko Warner - Badger primary/Lion secondary, has all models and performances (specifically uses his Badger secondary model in Wakko’s Wish, and specifically uses his Bird secondary model as a toy)

#sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats #yes i really just sorted the animaniacs #dot warner #yakko warner #wakko warner #yakko is my favorite #animaniacs #snake bird #lion snake #badger lion #wakko and marinette stop being so damn complicated challenge

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idrewbedraggledbreaths · 4 years

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Sorting Eve Polastri and Villanelle using the Sortinghatchats system

So, I had been thinking that I for once didn’t have a hyperfixation but nope, I do. It’s the personality system developed by @sortinghatchats, which is based on the 4 Harry Potter houses, but instead of simplistic, reductionist stereotypes, this system goes deep into you and sorts you in two houses: primary and secondary. Your primary is your WHY, your reason to view the world or life your life and your secondary is your HOW, how you approach life’s problems and issues. I will be using @wisteria-lodge’s terminology because it’s pretty neat, but you don’t need much to connect the names to the houses.

Here’s a tl;dr of what each of the primaries and secondaries are:

Lion primaries are intuitive and guided by their moral compass, which is very strong (doesn’t mean what they believe in is in fact good or correct) and Lion secondaries are the people who charge straight at something, regardless of whether they will come out of it unscathed or not.

Snake (hey look, that’s me!) primaries value people. Not any person, their people. They will go to hell and earth for their people to be safe and happy, which can get kind of self destructive. Snake secondaries improvise much like Lion secondaries, but they tend to adapt to situation and shapeshift their way out of problems.

Bird (also me!) primaries also value right and wrong like Lion primaries, but they build their systems with external information and observation, not from their gut feelings. That means Bird primaries change a lot with time, because their ‘rights’ and ‘wrongs’ change. Bird secondaries collect. Skills, tools, random knowledge, they delve deep and acquire as much of them as they can, not because things are useful, but because it’s fun.

Finally, Badger primaries are also people-persons, but their communities are much broader than a Snake primary’s. They value people, tradition, cultures and so (but not every Badger sees everyone as people, so there’s that). Badger secondaries are the hardworking types in the sense that they cultivate things, they invest in them and even become them.

You can develop models of each house according to what you find useful or what society has instilled in you, but when push come to shove, the models aren’t the real you. All of these houses can burn, meaning their essence is somehow scared away from them due to trauma, depression, societal pressures, etc. That means a Lion stops trusting their instincts, a Snake no longer feels like they’re able to protect their people or their people are better off without them (been there done that don’t recommend), a Bird loses faith in their systems and a Badger closes themselves off from their communities and adopts a smaller circle of people. Burnt houses can look a lot like each other, but I can’t really explain. i suggest you go to @paint-the-ravenclaw or @wisteria-lodge for more info.

Ok, here we go:

Villanelle

Oh boy, V is one hell of a Bird secondary. It’s just so loud. Her Snake primary is pretty obvious to me as well, but her Bird stands out because it’s odd. She is a great planner ad really thrives off of planning. Her spectacular kills in s1-s2 are almost always planned inch by inch. She has collected a wide and very impressive variety of skills she uses to complete her missions, from disguising herself to faking accents to disembowelling men. You could argue that she has some Snake model built into her because she does adapt to some degree, but whenever she cannot plan at all and has to improvise, her mask ends up slipping. Think ‘the hole’, the doll guy, killing the Romanian guy in s3. When she and her recruit are assigned the mission to kill the guy at the birthday party, she loses her shit when he doesn’t follow plans. Homegirl is a planner all the way, but at the same time it feels like she doesn’t give two fucks about the consequences of her plans, as long as she gets the job done. Sometimes she is a bird of prey, all precision and carefulness, and sometimes she is a...birb. happy go lucky birb with her clothes and her shoes and her Eve and the things she likes (mainly Eve, though). To me, that’s because of her Snake primary.

Villanelle values herself more than whatever Konstantin is trying to do, so she is self indulgent. You can clearly see that alongside that, she is desperately trying to belong somewhere, to choose someone who also chooses her. That’s where most of her conflict with Konstantin comes from: she has chosen him but he hasn’t chosen her. Same thing for her family: she is deeply wounded by the fact that the people she initially chose haven’t chosen her, but that’s why she kills her mother and the husband and not her younger brothers: they are her people still. You could say her primary is somewhat burned with the way she had to protect herself from choosing people due to how they have treated her, but it then unburns when she meets her one true person, Eve. She will do anything to get Eve’s attention, including, uh... murdering her best friend. She chooses to go back to Eve in Rome and shoots Eve because her reaction to V sort of revealing she forced Eve to kill Raymond reads as ‘I chose you and tried to show you my way but you denied me so now I’m MAD *angry emoji*’ but she’s not really mad. She’s still thinking about Eve, she’s still hurting because of Eve. To me, she is in a constant state of burning and unburning and I really want to see where s4 leads her.

Eve

Eve is a bit harder or me, mostly because her character was relegated to a supporting role even though she is the title character and should get more development but I think I got a decent shot at her. If Villanelle is a planner who can improvise, Eve is an improviser who can plan (if not plan, at least collect diverse information and skillsets). To me, she is a very loud Lion secondary who throws herself at things and challenges. Think about how she reacts in the bus scene, how she takes that axe and murders Raymond, how she follows V and Bill into the club almost madly. She isn’t really planning anything, she’s just charging. Niko wants plans and stability and a future, but Eve doesn’t, she likes the unknown, the thrill of the chase, the ‘headbutting a wall until you either break it or break you skull.’ I think she has a Bird secondary model, though. She is very knowledgeable (a little too knowledgeable) when it comes to serial killers, she can pick up on patterns and clues very quickly and she can eventually prepare herself before charging, namely in the flat scene in s1. Eve thrashes V’s flat in impulsive Lion fashion, but she remembers to take the gun and the knife in case things turn sour, which means she had planed ahead. The plan turns out to be... a complete failure. If Eve was a true Bird, she would not stab Villanelle the way she did, she would have waited and evaluated. Her reaction is to immediately regret what she’s done because she knows she’s fucked up massively, and that reaction is something I’ve seen on some Lion friends, bless their hearts. She is blunt, earnest and often says the hilarious but slightly inappropriate thing and that’s very Lion to me.

As for Eve’s primary, from the very beginning it seemed to me like she was trying very hard to be a double Lion but... she’s not. She’s a Snake like V, with a Lion model she is definitely not comfortable with. It does look like she sometimes is acting on something because it is the right thing, but the way she obsesses over V makes her shed her previous morals away. She gets distressed when her team focuses on the Ghost more than Villanelle, she gets jealous of V, she leaves Hugo to die so that she can get to Villanelle. It’s clear she tries to hold on to her normal life with a husband, a job and a chicken but in the end she kind of accepts she was never meant to ave any of those things, and that’s why she turns at the bridge. Because Villanelle is Eve’s person, and Eve’s person comes first.

So, for me Villaneve are a couple of Snake primaries, with Eve trying to hide hers with a ‘society-approved’ Lion model that slips away under V’s strong Snake primary. So gay.

I could go into more detail on my sortings, but i’s late as hell and I’m tired. I might try to sort other characters later, specially Carolyn. I’m struggling with her right now. Anyway,this is just my take on these characters using a system I love.

#killing eve #eve polastri #villanelle #oksana astankova #Harry Potter #slytherin primary #gryffindor primary #ravenclaw secondary #gryffindor secondary #snake primary #lion primary #bird secondary #snake secondary #slytherin secondary #villaneve

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