#anti lan xichen

[fayraje]

I really don’t like lan xichen. He’s everything salters accuse Adrien of being, except he doesn’t have the excuse of being fourteen, abused and literally not knowing. And no willful ignorance doesn’t really count. Wei wuxian made the thing with the wen remnants very public. Jin guangyao, literally admitted he was right. And the guy just thinks that Wei wuxian’s heart has really changed. And then he later blames the poor guy for the massacre in nightless city. They were going to go kill him and the wen remnants, despite wen ning and wen Qing giving themselves up. He just took the fight to them, and he wasn’t even the one to attack first.

#Mdzs #anti lan xichen #lan xichen critical

[ackerslut]

anyway my toxic trait is that i absolutely hate lan xichen

#that motherfucker can square up i HATE HIM #cql lan xichen is Okay I Guess #any other iteration can die by my sword #anti lan xichen #this is a lan xichen hate blog fr fr fr fr fr fr fr fr fr

[piosplayhouse]

Most fucked up thing in the world is when your mutual sends you something so excitedly and then you try to look at it and it turns out you can't because op has you blocked so you just have to pathetically crawl back to your friend like uhhh so bad news... Screenshot for the needy please...

#im ngl this is how i find out people on mdzs tumblr block me.. #for some reason ive been blocked by a substantial number of both fervent wwx anti every other character stans and fervent jgy / jc #anti wwx stans so i dont know how i managed to be controversial on both sides of the political spectrum. #like this i suppose i am lan xichen

[lgbtlunaverse]

I don't think we talk about xiyao exes to lovers enough. I understand that in canon the "breakup" ended with death and imo it was never going to end any other way (I have a lot of feelings about how jgy is doomed from the start) but even in aus where survival is an option I barely ever see their full potential realized. The fact that there is this heartbreaking gap that is between them now, and yet that, despite it all, they can't stop loving each other. When you have drama this good, why is the conflict relegated to outside threats and we end up with little to no exploration of internal strife, of the fact that these guys have been living a domestic lie for a decade (I cannot stress this enough, the amount of parralels between xiyao and jgy's marriage to qin su are staggering.)

And let me be clear I will NEVER begrudge anyone their hurt/comfort and wanting their faves who are denied happiness and peace at every turn to find it. god knows I need that sometimes. Or even the less healthy but so emotionally devastating fics where the caring isn't good, and it doesn't fix anything- might only make things worse, actually- and xichen ends up recreating his father's fate. I love all of those things. But. Man. This divorce was over 11 years in the making it should take AT LEAST that long to resolve. What do you do when the person you trusted the most lied to you for years? What do you do when the only person who's ever believed in you loses that faith so completely they'd hurt you over a lie without hesitation? I need me some xiyao who try to get over each other for 20 years and fail. I need them to meet after not seeing each other for years and have it hurt like no time has passed at all. I need arguments where no one raises their voice but that feel like a screaming match anyway. Do you see my vision?? Do you see what we could have?

(if fics that do exacly this are out there, recs are of course welcome)

#mdzs #meng yao #xiyao #lan xichen #jin guangyao #rs: i wish it could've been you #this might make some people really mad #at the idea that jgy has any right to have grievances with xichen but uh... #i'm not interested in arguing with jgy antis. go scream at a wall #or a different camp who DO like xiyao but who are like 'but xichen was lied to jgy wouldn't blame him' #the fact that it was a lie makes it WORSE you guys know that right? #some of you have never been the proverbial boy who cried wolf #and had people assume everything you say is a lie because you've lied in the past #and good for you! You SHOULD be honest with those you love i'm very happy for all of you #but also. lmao. you have no idea how that feels. #i have read aus where they break up and get back together of course #but i always end up feeling like people see the conflict as an obstacle? a thing to get past so we can get them back together #and not.. you know. the most interesting part. the selling point #I think in a slightly lower stakes au xiyao should wait a few years get back together because they love each other and then break up AGAIN #when they realize that the old relationship they had with that easy trust is gone forever. love isn't enough to bring that back #you can build something new. including a new kind of trust just as potent. but that old easy kind is gone. #and i think they should try to get it back because it was the best thing they ever had #and get fucked up about it when they realize they can't #and it should take them well over a decade to mourn it until they're ready to let it go and try to make something new of it #PLEASE let me talk about the xichen qin su parralels please let me talk about how rusong is nmj-coded #not in personality but in the function he has narratively as someone that can never stop haunting jgy. #the fact that nmj's death and rusong's birth were likely extremely close to each other timeline wise LET'S TALK ABOUT IT

[righteousinadversity]

The slaughter of the Wen Remnants and Wei Wuxian's death is an incredibly good tragedy - It is heart-wrenching, horrific, and is arguably the biggest subversion in the book.

And the reason it works, the essence of what makes it such a good tragedy is that there seem like millions of moments where a single character could have made a different choice and everything could have ended up better but also, at the end of it, nothing could ever really stop this terrible end - it will happen, it is inevitable.

And it comes down to the other characters and the choices they make - the choices they have the power to make. At a million points starting right from the moment Wei Wuxian interrupts the Jin Banquets, asking for Wen Ning, every person in power had the opportunity, ability and moral obligation to do something - to do better. And not one of them takes the chance to.

Jiang Cheng could have chosen to protect the Wens, grant them a place to live and called upon his life-debt as an excuse to the other sects. Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen and any other sect leader could have looked into the matter, investigated beyond the gossip they shared in the golden halls of Koi Tower. Jin Guangshan could have chosen not to instigate the rumors and chase after power at the cost of human lives. They all could have done better, listened better, when they slaughtered two innocents and then swore to slaughter more.

But would they have?

Jiang Cheng, who wielded hatred like a sharpened blade, who was so driven by his raging need to win over Wei Wuxian, who cared little for debts when they did not benefit him? Nie Mingjue, who thought every Wen as reprehensible and criminal as Wen Ruohan himself? Lan Xichen, who was willfully blind and more bothered about holding up the ridiculous charades of politics than about human lives? Jin Guangshan, a man so wretched and power-hungry, that he cared not for his own son's death beyond how it may serve his agenda?

No. They would not have.

Would it have been different if it was Jin Zixuan leading the Jins, not a pinnacle of morality, but a nevertheless good man? If Jiang Yanli, who loved her shidi and offered a fierce corpse soup with her own hands led the Jiangs? If Nie Huaisang, who knew better than to listen to rumors, led the Nie? If Lan Wangji, who loved Wei Wuxian and sought him out. and saw why his love could not leave the path he chose and respected it, led the Lan?

Perhaps. Perhaps.

The tragedy of it all lies in this. It was not an impossible thing to ensure that the horrors would not happen - but the choices to be made to ensure it were in the hands of precisely the people who would never make those choices.

The ancient Greek playwrights used to have a saying, 'Character is Fate'. And this is what they meant.

These characters could have changed what happened. These particular characters would not have.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #wen remnants #anti cultivation world #cultivation world criticial #as always #nie mingjue critical #lan xichen critical #canon jiang cheng #this is why much of the BM arc fanfic disappoint me #more often than not characterization of many are thrown away in favor of a fix it #which I wouldn't mind much #if it were not accompanied by putting the fault upon wei wuxian #honestly much of the BM arc is really just - these assholes could do something about this #there is no way these particular assholes would though

[sonik-kun]

I remember this horrible JC anti and their followers on Twitter from a while back now, shitting on all our art, claiming all JC artists are bad, as are our fanfics.

So when I see that Xicheng is the second biggest ship with nearly as much content as Wangxian and then of course, all the wonderful art our side of the fandom produces, I can't help but feel smug and proud of our fan base.

We have so many wonderful content creators on our side of the fandom who deserve all the recognition and more. We have built a nice home for ourselves here, and I won't let vile, vicious antis ruin it 😊

#jiang cheng #mxtx mdzs #jiang wanyin #mo dao zu shi #lan xichen #xicheng #i love this fandom and its fans so much 💜 #keep on creating and give these nasty JC and LXC antis the middle finger 😊

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Sorry if you have been asked this before, but what do you think of the whole 3zun romance thing some of the fandom likes? Be it the poly or the lxc was with one but then cheated/broke up for the other thing?

Like i know in canon that’s not a thing, yeah lxc was close to jgy but that was a brotherhood like friendship, same with nmj. But in fanon it also kinda gives me the ick, whenever i read a fic and they just casually put some flavor of romance 3zun in it, ends up turning me off to the whole thing. For some reason lxcxjgy or the poly version is what makes me most uncomfortable, I don’t mind lxcxnmj that much to be honest. I guess it might have something to do with just jgy’s character, idk.

But even tho it gives me the ick, im very much a live and let live kind of person so if it is something you like im sorry if I offended you. I understand everyone is free to ship whatever they want

Happy Tuesday, anon.

I don't think about it because I detest it in any kind of romantic implication for Lan Xichen.

It simply isn't and was not ever the most important thing within his life. We get explicitly shown where his concerns were at, which was when Lan Wangji took a stand to protect Wei Wuxian. Who, in Lan Xichen's eyes took advantage of Lan Wangji emotionally. It's without actual character context to say either man personally was his romantic dedication. They weren't as he has no romantic interest in anyone, and is vastly more concerned about his brother's ventures and what he sees as a failed one.

He also isn't completely broken up as fandom likes to portray about Nie Mingjue having died. He is more horrified in the way he was pierced together as a fierce corpse and it's underlying suspicions concerning Jin Guangyao's fake facade. He had hoped that Jin Guangyao had reasons to keep his trust for so many years despite his own misgivings, due to the multitude of unfair condemnations Jun Guangyao was faced with that were untrue. None of these men were as close as fandom portrays, friends also don't mean they know every private thought of the other, or really truly knew each other. Being on good terms does not make a romance.

It also is a disregard for the genuine once true feelings Jin Guangyao did have for Qin Su. However twisted it turned into, he did try to make her happy and wanted her to be happy despite how easy he was able to use it against her. He has a failed love that he kept hold of as a caricature of what could have been.

Anything else, is reader made up preference and reading an intention that was not there to begin with. I know I have had years and generations of friendship with my own friends and it's not at all a thing that would pop up in my mind that our dedication has to be influenced by romance only. It's mean and cruel to propose these bonds have to be important because of romance only.

Have fun as much as the next person, but do not use the argument of "Death of The Author" for personally preferred interpretation that has no contextual merit or authorial intent. Makes me have no interest in the exploration of it when it's proclaimed as being secretly meant to be.

You are allowed to have your fanon much as I am allowed to disregard it as being a viable point of the story we are given.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #salt? salt #anti-3zun #get it away from Lan Xichen #and honestly all three of them since it's such a disservice

[winepresswrath]

I cannot decide whether make the Lans be eighth or sixth. I feel like sixth is the best match overall but their fun hating is essential because their biggest contribution to the plot is Lan Wangji.

#like it's not fair to the Lans to make them 8th! they love music which I'm pretty sure the 8th banned #Xichen makes no sense in this context #rip to them in the specific context of an au i am having fun playing around with it is essential that lan wangji retain his hall monitor #vibes and in the sixth he would have insufficient institutional support for being a killjoy #Nies are so clearly 2nd #so that's fine #ouyangs get to be seventh exclusively on zizhen's back #sneaking the yus in as ninth for fun #FINE #the Yao can be 8 the Lans retain their rightful nerd spot and Lan Wangji is just like that on account of childhood trauma #and a moderately unfortunate personality (affectionate) #seventh and eighth are still besties bcs zizhen's dad thinks being an anti is delightfully gloomy and dramatic and Sect Leader Yao is #is the kind of person who thinks poetry should be illegal except when it's about him

[chaos0pikachu]

hot take but nie mingjue would 100% be pro-cop, I said what I said

#mdzs #anti nie mingjue #I guess??? #like i'm sorry but the dude who believes in a strict stringent form of justice that only serves to enforce the status quo #and doesn't question the leadership or power of those in charge is pro cop lmao #nie mingjua doesn't see oppression like lan xichen can #he'd be one of those dudes on twitter that's like 'privilege doesn't exist what are you talking about?' b/c he can't SEE it #he can only operate by strict binaries which only helps the oppressors!! #anyway ACAB

[jiaoji]

A XiCheng's fic appeared in my twitter and the fucking first line was:

"After after running over Jiang Cheng..."

I stopped reading and now i am happy after, finally a XiCheng's shipper make me happy.

#mdzs #modaozushi #lan xichen #jiang cheng #anti jiang cheng

[web-novel-polls]

MXTX Side Characters Upper Bracket

Lan Xichen from MDZS

Submission: Pay your respects to the captain of the WangXian ship! Those idiots would keep pining for another 13282627 years if it weren't for him! 

Additional Propaganda 1

Additional Propaganda 2

Additional Propaganda 3

Wen Ning from MDZS

Submission emitted for potential character hate

Chose kindness again and again - sheltering Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng from the other Wens, sacrificing himself with his sister to save Wei Wuxian and the Wen Remnants - only to inadvertently/paritally cause Wei Wuxian’s downfall & the seige on the Burial Mounds with his own hands by killing Jin Zixuan (not of his own will, btw). Another tragic character who sacrificed and put himself at risk to protect people who died anyway 

["Anti-Propaganda" that attacks other characters is NOT allowed. Please only give reasons to vote FOR a character.]

#lan xichen #wen ning #mdzs #mxtx #polls #mxtx side characters upper round 3 #mxtx side characters upper bracket #queue

[mxtxfanatic]

Was thinking about how often I see reactionary pro-Jiang Cheng content, and I just realized something: jc stans, just like their fav, believe that every good thing Wei Wuxian has—whether loved ones or good memories or admirable characteristics or character growth, whether canon or fanon—is actually the rightful property of Jiang Cheng that Wei Wuxian “stole” from him through the sin of existing, and it is their sworn duty to correct this “oversight” of canon.

Wei Wuxian gets his happily ever after with the love of his life, so jc stans give Jiang Cheng Lan Xichen and call Lan Wangji “second place.” Or they make Lan Wangji a cheater because “he actually likes Jiang Cheng more (who doesn’t, amiright?)” or Wei Wuxian a cheater because “he can never appreciate a good thing like Jiang Cheng can.” People point out how Wei Wuxian and Nie Huaisang seem to have had a closer relationship than Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng, so jc stans make the latter two a ship or make them the bestest friends ever that bond over being annoyed with Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian has a close relationship with the Wen siblings, so jc stans make Wen Qing spend all their time together saying that Jiang Cheng “was right” about him while Wen Ning is being “bullied” into being “anti-jc.”

Wei Wuxian is canonically smart and driven, so jc stans say that he is lazy while Jiang Cheng is hardworking. Wei Wuxian is canonically charismatic, so jc stans say that it was actually Jiang Cheng who was loved by all the disciples and is the sole reason the Jiang Clan of the present was able to pull in new disciples post-fall. Wei Wuxian loves to learn, so jc stans say that Jiang Cheng was actually a model student being sabotaged by the slovenly Wei Wuxian.

People imagine the Lan as accepting Wei Wuxian post-canon or imagine aus where the Lan adopt him as a child, so jc stans make Jiang Cheng the adopted Lan child, who Lan Qiren now likes better than his own nephews. People write Nie!wwx, so jc stans write about how “actually” Nie Mingjue sees Jiang Cheng as the brother he never had and views Wei Wuxian as an unwanted nuisance and competition. People make the most batshit ooc au where the QishanWen are actually good and adopt Wei Wuxian, and jc stans turn that into actually, the Jiang siblings are adopted while Wei Wuxian stays with the “totally horrible, abusive” father in Yunmeng. Fucking Baoshan Sanren descends from her mountain to look for her martial grandson, and jc stans will shove Jiang Cheng into the narrative as a disciple because “he’s just so lovable!” In all of these cases, some will still imagine that Wei Wuxian still gets left on the streets as a petty afterthought.

Shit, even some of the BAD things that happen to Wei Wuxian canonically are misappropriated by jc stans to give Jiang Cheng unearned sympathy. Wei Wuxian was whipped as a child? Now Jiang Cheng was too, but also his dad hates him. Wei Wuxian is an orphan who creates his own family in adulthood? Jiang Cheng is now disowned/an unloved runaway who later finds his people because who wouldn’t want him (amiright?). Wei Wuxian was at risk of losing his golden core completely in the transfer if it failed? Well Jiang Cheng was going to DIE! “See? Look how much harder Jiang Cheng’s life was than that pathetic attention whore Wei Wuxian! Doesn’t he deserve all the things Wei Wuxian has? Aren’t they rightfully his???”

And it’s like, you can’t even escape into fan content with this type of mentality, because look out how much I mentioned is popular fanon. Notice how ubiquitous these ideas are surrounding anything to do with Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng, even if only one of them is mentioned. No matter what anyone reads in the novel, no matter what individuals come up with in their own heads, no matter what tag or platform is used or not used to keep it out of their hands, jc stans will be there to create a reactionary counterpart to prove that nothing, nothing can ever just be Wei Wuxian’s. Because at the end of the day, the “oversight” that jc stans want to correct isn’t Jiang Cheng’s supposed depreciation by the author. The “oversight” was the author daring to say that Wei Wuxian deserves to be treated as his own person and not Jiang Cheng’s personal property. And every fandom interaction has been retaliation towards that fact.

The main character of the novel is relegated to mere a lightning rod that exists to attract all of Jiang Cheng’s bad qualities while injecting him with all of Wei Wuxian’s good, but jc stans wonder why people are upset.

#mdzs #human gripes at fandom

[ultfreakme]

Any time JC antis start coming for him and his reaction to what WWX did, I always want to ask them to do the "Lan Clan Test". Basically, replace the Jiang family deaths with Lan family deaths. Instead of Jin Zixuan dying by Wen Ning's hand, say it's Lan Qiren. At Nightless City, imagine it's Lan Xichen who's mourning his uncle that's searching for Lan Wangji, and WWX accidentally kills LXC.

Like really picture Lan Xichen dying in Lan Wangji's arms, telling him heartfelt words assured of his death and Lan Wangji's like "Hey please fix this, please stop this" to Wei Wuxian and WWX is like "wait wait I can fix this I swear I swear!".

Okay how would you expect Lan Wangji to react to that? Ngl if he still somehow thinks of Wei Wuxian as entirely blameless and holds zero resentment towards WWX after that, I would lose my respect for LWJ and I don't think LWJ would react like that anyways. The person you love whom you warned against taking this path has chosen to disregard anything you say(pr even his closest people like Jiang Cheng say) and has now lost all control and has killed all that's left of your family. Who WOULDN'T lose it at least a little? Who wouldn't hold resentment or anger or frustration?

Jiang Cheng made mistakes but he's not uniquely evil. He was right to have felt anger towards Wei Wuxian because bro in his eyes, Wei Wuxian COULD control that. Only we as audience know the extent of loss of control. And even if JC realized WWX can't control it, he begged WWX time and time again to stop Demonic Cultivation. Trying to flatten this situation into a "he's wrong, he's right, case closed" is the worst thing you can do in MDZS.

#canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #mdzs #mo dao zu shi

[whumpbby]

Idk if there's a right way to say this but Jiang Cheng's biggest crime in and out canon is being not that pleasant to be around and i rlly wish people would acknowledge that instead of trying to paint him as The Worst in order to justify their weirdly intense hatred towards him

I'm going to ramble,sorry, that how I put thoughts in order:)

I think that's the perfect way to say it actually. And 100% fact imho. His biggest flaw is that he has no patience with other people's shit and no filter on how little patience he has. He lets people know he's unhappy with them. All his care and dedication is in his actions.

The way he cares about Wei Wuxian and then Jin Ling - even his scolding is an expression of care, always concerned about the way their behaviour can bring harm to them or to their sects. The way he sacrificed his life for Wei Wuxian without a moment's doubt and neve mentioned it. The way he was fighting a war and rebuilding the sect at the same time. The way his sect became absolutely notfuckwithable. The way he kept throwing himself in the way of danger for his loved ones in the Temple.

This is not some villain who only cares about himself - the way he's being painted by the antis.

There was this post somewhere saying that the biggest flaw in a fictional character is being boring - they can be a war criminal, as long as they're not boring.

I think for some people who are looking for pure escapism and feel-good simplicity (and nothing wrong with that, everyone does that) the "boring" gets replaced with "ugly". The depiction of trauma survivors that didn't "go through all that and ended up kinder". That didn't get over the tragedy in their lives to an appropriate standard. That are functional, but not happy. That bring back the bad stuff that happened because it still influences their lives and behaviours and reactions.

They want all the tragic trauma of the past, but without long-lasting consequences that aren't leading directly to cock-healing or fawning.

Like, if you think about it, no one went through the war in that book and came out "better". Absolutely no one. Lan Zhan drowned himself in guilt and directed all his anger towards Jiang Cheng. Wei Wuxian didn't stop running for even a moment and he became an intensely careless, emotionally dishonest person. Lan Xichen settled into not really doing much, coasting on his sects' position and JGY's help. Nie Mingjue became a bona-fide warlord who basically said "fuck these people, hunt them for sport for all I care". Meng Yao learned that you can stab your problems away. Everyone around them became incredibly trigger-happy for a long while.

And yet JC is the only one singled out as the Evil Walking The Land, because his trauma response isn't pretty and stoic and is specifically, understandably, targeting the Innocent Cinnamon Roll Protagonist and isn't fixed by the end of the book. He could have saved the world, but as long as he's not polite while he's at it then fuck him.

This is, like, primary school level morality were facing here xD

I cannot tell you how surprised I was when entering the world of The Untamed - prepared by Tumblr to see jC as this demon of a man and instead found this guy who, by all accounts, is in the right 99% of the time. Then I read the book and was staggered by the final reveal. And the absolute bullshit I was fed by people that wanted to sour me on the character before I could make my own mind.

Not even gonna get into how these people treat Wen Ning - whose whole existence is a horrific chain of horrific events ending in his absolutely awful existence of an actual slave... But he's such a cute puppy, eh?

Tldr: people who keep making excuses for hating JC do it to somehow justify the fact they can only accept Trauma Light in their fiction.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng

[least-carpet]

For the shipping ask game, Xicheng and Chengxian?

Hello, anon! This got wildly out of hand, so it's all going under a cut.

Xicheng: Could Ship It

Borrowing this additional option I saw floating around!

I'm not strongly opposed to it, but it's hard for me to see them making it work in a canon universe. The fanart is very cute, though! And I've read some AUs that I thought made a good case, but they involved some thoughtful interventions.

What potential do you see in the ship?

Honestly, like, I just want them to both have something nice, they've had such a hard time. They both understand the hard work and sacrifices involved in sect leadership. I think the argument for it goes something like Jiang Cheng gets a person on his side who is kind to him, and Lan Xichen gets someone who's very reliable and also pretty direct, to heal his presumed post-canon trust issues.

What aspect makes you hesitant?

It just doesn't seem to me that they really enjoy each other? Like I believe they get along just fine and have a comfortable working relationship. I don't think they dislike each other, even. But they don't seem particularly close, even though they're of a rank and have been working with each other for years and years. I want my blorbo (Jiang Cheng) to be loved for his bad personality, not in spite of it!

I also think they would really struggle to communicate—Lan Xichen prefers to smooth things over, but Jiang Cheng reads too much reserve or politeness as rejection and, uh, gets reactive (thank you Jiang Fengmian for giving him the MOST deranged daddy issues, for real). Actually, I think Lan Xichen has a lot of potential to push a lot of Jiang Cheng's dad-related buttons just because of his temperament. (Maybe that's a plus? CRUNCHY.)

It also has the potential to cause some new and exciting political problems for them, which they both prefer to avoid.

Chengxian: Ship It

[lies face-down on the floor and starts hollering]

These two make me fuckin' insane!

What made you ship it?

Two things:

Their mutually happy childhood relationship, their initially compatible dysfunctions (Jiang Cheng is easily embarrassed but secretly wants affection, Wei Wuxian is bad at boundaries and WILL die if you don't pay attention to him -> Wei Wuxian touching Jiang Cheng all the time and receiving his attention, making both of them happy). Their enjoyment of each other. I love a badly-boundaried and devoted teenage relationship, it's delightful. Even before chengxian completely rotted my brain out, there was something specifically appealing about the Lan summer camp era.

The double golden core reveal took me out. I found Wei Wuxian's decision completely appalling to begin with, like viscerally disgusting. (I find it interesting when antis accuse Jiang Cheng of pretending to be upset when he finds out, or of not caring where the new core came from, because I, reader who did not get nonconsensual magic surgery, profoundly Did Not Like It. If it was my own body, I would freak out.) It's a fascinating combination of obsessive devotion and total denial of agency. Wei Wuxian is just like, "Don't worry, I will invent new and unheard of methods of violation for your own good because I can't cope with your despair." That's deranged, my dude. That is Not Normal. And then you find out that Jiang Cheng lost the core saving Wei Wuxian, and he plans to NEVER TELL HIM ABOUT IT. God damn it.

I don't even really care if they kiss, although it's fun when they do. Just reconcile! Reconcile!

What are your favourite things about the ship?

In no particular order:

In a text that is largely pro-Wei Wuxian—not in the sense that everything he does is moral, but in the sense that he's the cool protagonist, and he gets to kick ass and solve mysteries and have a happy ending—this relationship is one that highlights his weaknesses and failures in a very humanizing way. And in order to reconcile, he would actually really have to challenge himself and grow as a person, which I love for him. (I also think Jiang Cheng would have to struggle for it, but, like, dude has demonstrated the capacity to do hard and terrible things even when confronted with his own weaknesses. He's not gonna be cool about it, and he's going to cry and bitch the whole time, but if he thinks it needs to be done and it can be done, he'll do it.)

The lack of boundaries within the relationship, which is a product of the lack of clarity of the type of relation to each other. Are they friends? Are they martial brothers or real brothers? If Wei Wuxian is Jiang Cheng's shixiong, but Jiang Cheng is also Wei Wuxian's sect leader, which takes precedence? (It's clear what should take precedence, but Wei Wuxian just straight-up does not Respect His Authority, even though—by all available evidence—Jiang Cheng is a really good leader. But that lack of respect is also a form of intimacy.) It's super, super messy.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

By lying to him so extensively, and then by failing to show up for any of his commitments without any explanation, Wei Wuxian really did betray Jiang Cheng a whole bunch of times, and Jiang Cheng's resulting betrayal trauma really is his fault.

You break it, you bought it, coward! Stop running away! (For legal purposes, this is a joke.)

#anon asks #ask game #shipping ask game #jiang cheng #lan xichen #wei wuxian #xicheng #chengxian #mdzs + #least-carpet thoughts

[admirableadmiranda]

I keep seeing the idea that Jiang Cheng is disliked or hated for his actions because "Jiang Cheng Antis” refuse to acknowledge ugly reactions to trauma, or victims who aren’t perfect, basically citing that he should be forgiven more than we do because not everyone is going to react the same to pain and trauma and just because his reactions aren’t perfect doesn’t mean that he should be held accountable for his actions, any of them, and us calling his actions wrong or abuse is us in fact being terrible.

I want to refute this idea for a few reasons:

First off, while I can’t speak for everyone, I know that I and my friends don’t think that his initial reactions being kinda bad are necessarily damning. Nobody is going to be perfect, sometimes when we are stuck in the worst parts of our lives, we do things that we will later regret in the process of surviving those times. It doesn’t really make it okay and we should understand if the people who are around us in those times don’t want to be around us anymore after that, but it isn’t a death knell that he reacts really poorly after the initial fall of Lotus Pier and the death of his parents and everyone he’s grown up with. I have forgiven characters for doing worse, but proving that it was their worst and turning around after that.

The problem with that part is that he doesn’t turn anything around. He never apologizes for strangling Wei Wuxian, he continues to turn the blame for what happened on people who weren’t involved even after getting to kill Wen Zhuliu and torture Wen Chao to death, holding Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and, for a time, Jin Zixuan as also being responsible even though none of them were, even though he knows this and adjusts his opinion later to drop Jin Zixuan out of the blame, even though he later adds Wen Ning to his list of those to blame despite Wen Ning rescuing him from Lotus Pier and sheltering him. It isn’t a worst moment of his life, brought on by trauma and pain, it’s just the start of his sliding slope downward.

Second off is the idea that this should exonerate him of all of his actions. Look at him! He lost his parents and his clan to war by the Wens! He has suffered so much, becoming a clan leader so young in the fires of war!!!

Except... he’s not the only one, not by a long shot. Lan Wangji, Lan Xichen, Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang all have their fathers killed and their homes attacked by the Wens as well. Both Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen also ascend at very young ages, no one was over twenty when they took up their positions, and at the end of the novel, Jin Ling is even younger when he takes on his own clan leader position. Also he isn’t the only one to go into war so young, Wei Wuxian is a whole five days older than he is, and the whole jianghu falls into war against the Wens, no doubt with other fighters who also lost their homes and families in the process.

It isn’t that it isn’t impressive that he manages to pull it together in the face of all that’s happening, it’s that he’s not the only person by any means to suffer this trauma. Wei Wuxian goes through the exact same journey that he does, but when this argument comes up, it’s always just for why Jiang Cheng shouldn’t be blamed, not about how their whole generation lost so much to a war that their parents left to them by refusing to do anything before even when they all saw the signs of what Wen Ruohan was doing.

The third part is that there’s apparently no limit or expiration date on how long people have to forgive him for doing whatever he wants to do. His trauma is a reason for him to treat people however he wants for as long as he wants, and they should just put up with it because he’s suffering and not all pain is beautiful.

But by the time Wei Wuxian comes back to life, it’s been almost twenty years. A whole generation, long enough for Jiang Cheng to watch his nephew grow to almost adulthood. The world as a whole is changed, he himself has transformed Lotus Pier into a whole new place; and it wasn’t because the Wens had destroyed everything, Wei Wuxian no longer recognizes it, meaning that this happened after he died. The general attitude that JC stans have towards Wei Wuxian is that he shouldn’t hold Jiang Cheng leading a siege against him because it’s been long enough, he should get over it by now. But Jiang Cheng apparently should still get to act without hesitation or consideration of others and their own pain because he is suffering, he is an imperfect victim. It doesn’t matter what else anyone else has gone through and it is unreasonable to hold him to task because he lost his family.

The whole point of poor trauma reactions is that they are moments, responses in time to events. It is one thing for Jiang Cheng to react poorly right after his family is killed and his home invaded. But he gets worse over the course of the story. The day of the attack, he strangles Wei Wuxian. That’s one thing. But three years later he turns on Wei Wuxian, declares him an enemy of the world, tells him to let the Wens be slaughtered even though they are no longer at war, later declares war on Wei Wuxian and personally leads a siege to kill him. In the interim, a time of peace in which supposedly all of his enemies are dead, he hunts down people who he claims to be demonic cultivators and people that Wei Wuxian is possessing and tortures them to death, all the while doing very little to help his people as he will only intervene once someone has already died to the problem. When Wei Wuxian returns to life thirteen years after he died, seventeen years after the war, when Jiang Cheng is literally double the age that this began, despite him deliberately trying to avoid Jiang Cheng, Jiang Cheng seeks him out multiple times specifically to hurt him, first trying to kill him with a whip that can destroy spirits possessing bodies, then tying him up and torturing him with a dog. Later he leads a second siege upon Wei Wuxian, who still has done nothing to him aside from try to avoid him before later attacking him and Lan Wangji by first demanding that they leave, then refusing to let them do so, driving Wei Wuxian to a qi deviation (which can be fatal, that’s how Nie Mingjue died) and attacking Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian with Zidian while Wei Wuxian is unconcious before Wen Ning stops him. Even in the temple, he’s still demanding that Wei Wuxian play by his rules of debts, he’s upset because he knows that he has gone so much farther than anyone has any right to and he has nothing to hold over Wei Wuxian’s head anymore.

Fifteen years of hurting everyone around him isn’t a poor trauma response. That’s deliberate and chosen. That is what he wants to do. It is a clear line of events where in the end, the trauma is an excuse over anything else.

If it had ended at the beginning of this list, Jiang Cheng would be a very different character and Modaozushi would be a very different novel. If it were just a trauma reaction and he didn’t want to hurt anyone in the long run, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But you cannot exonerate everything with the fact that his parents died when he was seventeen. Especially not when we have so many other people who react in so many other ways to the same pain. It is frankly ridiculous that people think he is the only one to suffer in the story, even though it is clear that no one escapes the novel unscathed and a hell of a lot of people die. Sometimes even at his hands or by his orders.

Jiang Cheng is not unsympathetic. I can understand what hurts he feels, at least to an extent. But an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and he just keeps doing it. And then his stans show up and claim that it’s fine for him to want to kill everyone who he hates (not necessarily everyone who’s even done him wrong, and they certainly like to ignore everything he does to them) because he’s an ugly trauma victim.

He may be that, at the start. But twenty years down the line, when he gets excited at the thought of getting to torture people, that isn’t a trauma reaction anymore.

That’s a choice.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #wei wuxian #get back in the antagonist bin #another day another jc stan #long post