#like in all the songs and stories Sansa loved as a child

[argelladurrandaun]

'Arya growing up pretty' doesn't mean she is going to drastically change her appearance or face. Because arya is already pretty. She does have some similarly to the ugly duckling turned swan story. But not exactly. Because arya was never ugly. She has always been pretty. She is just not well groomed. Always covered in dirt and messy hair. But arya already looks (and acts) like lyanna. And lyanna was very beautiful. Only her bullies sansa and jeyne say that shes ugly. But they are bullies who are trying to hurt her so their opinion is not true.

Other than them everyone who meets arya - be it the people that love arya or complete strangers they always call arya pretty. We known that ned and jon has always told arya she is pretty.

"Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."

x

She had never cared if she was pretty, even when she was stupid Arya Stark. Only her father had ever called her that. Him, and Jon Snow, sometimes. Her mother used to say she could be pretty if she would just wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress

Other than them, lady ravella Smallwood tells arya she is pretty

"I'm sorry, my lady." Arya suddenly felt bad for her, and ashamed. "I'm sorry I tore the acorn dress too. It was pretty."

"Yes, child. And so are you. Be brave."

and even in braavos the kindly man tells arya she is pretty. And pretty enough to be a 'courtesan' who are the most beautiful women in the continent.

"You believe this is the only place for you." It was as if he'd heard her thoughts. "You are wrong in that. You would find softer service in the household of some merchant. Or would you sooner be a courtesan, and have songs sung of your beauty?

Also, the kindly man remarks (who is an expert on faces) , that aryas face is a pretty one.

He cupped her chin, turned her head this way and that, nodded. "A pretty one this time, I think. As pretty as your own."

Arya also have ton of swan symbolism.

The Lady that Arya would wear dresses for and act like a Lady(because she was kind to arya) ... is Ravella from House Swann. A "Swann" tells Arya she is pretty!

Add the fact that Arya literally sees 3 swans on a lake and wishes to be a swan. George adds beautiful bird imagery to her chapters like in the Mercy chapter where he compares her legs to bird wings. Even her water dancing is inspired by ballet where Arya actually wears pointy shoes and has the duality of Swan Lake interwoven in her story.

Also the fact that she is the only dark hair/grey eyes of Ned's children (Swan). Born amoung southern looking Tully siblings (ducks). Arya is figuratively born a Swan. So thats definitely important.

The only person who doesn't think arya is pretty is arya herself. Because of all the mocking and bullying has taken a toll on arya and she has internalized it. They why arya herself doesn't think she is pretty. But onlookers has always seen her beauty and commented on that even though arya doesn't believe it. But that is going to change as arya gets older. Also her next phase of training will likely be with a courtesans so she might regain some of her self confidence.

#arya stark #asoiaf

[anxiouspotatorants]

Not me shipping Sansa with Podrick in year two thousand and twenty four

#I just want her to actually get the healthy and happy love that she deserves #and always dreamed of as a child before half of the creeps of Westeros descended on her like wolves #will never happen in the books though I still find myself grasping for straws #but TV Podrick is literally not only the most eligible sweet bachelor of Westeros #he’s a knight by the end #like in all the songs and stories Sansa loved as a child #and we know Podrick respects women with authority #‘but they wouldn’t be able to marry because he’s just a Payne and she’s the queen in the North’ you say #I know but imagine the ANGST #actually straight out of a medieval song #he keeps his vow she keeps her political position and they both pine endlessly from a distance #podsa #sansa x podrick #asoiaf #game of Thrones #sansa stark #podrick payne

[missglaskin]

House Stark (Platonic) Yandere HCS: 

Characters-Ned, Benjen (Mention), Catelyn, Jon, Robb, Rickon, Bran, Sansa, Arya 

Catelyn held her breath when the rumors reached her ears. Her husband once again brought a child to Winterfell. Her mind goes to Jon. She would not be able to stand having another bastard living under the same roof. To her relief, Ned brought the small child in so that he found her all alone, possibly abandoned and couldn’t leave her there, seeing that she won’t survive on her own. 

That being said, Catelyn found herself growing fond of you. She could not let you go, and it warmed her heart to see you smile. She would dismiss many of her duties just to spend all the time with you. Ensuring you were well fed and dressed, handing you to the septa to start teaching you how to read and write. It wasn’t long before Cat started to refer to you as her own. 

It certainly was a surprise to Ned. He simply wanted to provide you a haven in Winterfell, not knowing it would be his own castle. Ned voiced to Cat how she shouldn’t be so attached to you. Your biological parents may be somewhere for all they know. It also bothered him how Cat would imply that you were their child, yet Ned finds himself a hypocrite when he grows attached to you as well. 

Ned was fond of daughters and that was seen in you too. He couldn’t help the swelling of his heart. Ned loved to have you on his side, giving you a small smile whenever you would look up at him. Also, starting to have some of his trusted guards follow you around in fear for your safety. When you once accidentally referred to him as ‘father’ Ned knew there was no going back, finally seeing you as his own. 

Robb quickly grew fond of you. He already accepted Jon as his brother and with you it’s no different. More so with how close in age you both are. As your big brother, he found it his duty to protect you. Getting into fights with any boy who messes or flirts with you. Robb also loves to tease you, but as said, will let no one else do so. 

Sansa looks up to you as her older sister. She craves your attention and approval, showing you the clothes she sewed or the songs she learned. A huge smile on her face when you praise her. Sansa constantly makes excuses for you to spend more time with her. Such as her purposely messing her hair for you to brush it for her. 

Arya also wants your attention. She can be quite demanding, much more forward than the rest of her family. Pulling you by the hand to follow her. Arya has a habit of running to you and leaping into your arms. Out of everyone, she listens to you the most. Similar to Sansa, she shows you some of the moves she ‘learned’ or guides you to the places she found. 

Bran can get quite sneaky in getting your attention. There is him obviously wanting to show you his climbing skills. Watching him as you remain on the ground, reminding him to be careful. More than once, he sneaked into your chambers through your window and you scold him every time. Bran likes when you would read him stories or ruffle his hair. 

Rickon is perhaps the clingiest and needy out of all the children. As the baby of the family, he expects to receive your most affection and attention. He does get easily upset when he must separate from you. Rickon loves to follow you around the castle, his hands clutched to your dress. 

Lastly comes Jon. At first, he envied you. Watching Cat accept you in the family and treat you as her own. But Jon eventually began to become fond of you. As you are nice to him, treating him like he was a part of the family, like he was your brother. He becomes protective of you and eager to do whatever you ask of him just to please you. 

Jon also notices how Cat is starting to be a little nicer to him. Realizing she’s only doing it with you around. As you hate seeing Jon being treated badly. Jon soon finds in a lot of feasts and events that normally he wouldn’t be allowed to attend to with his legitimacy and all. If anything, this act of kindness drew Jon closer to you against Cat’s wishes. 

You are doted upon by your parents. Whatever books or furs you wish for are gifted with not much hesitance. The servants are instructed to fulfill every one of your whims and desires. You also have your siblings who will gladly do whatever you ask them to do and silently compete with one another in which gift you will love the most. 

The most who compete with one another are Sansa and Arya. Either one comes to complain about the other. Such as when Sansa whines that Arya pranked her to which then Arya argues that Sansa laughed at her with friends. You are stuck in the middle, where either sister forces you to choose a side. 

Robb and Jon follow right after, but the two are more subtle and can find a middle ground. With Jon, there has to be a lot of reassurance that you don’t care for Robb more as he feels that doesn’t deserve you. Rickon and Bran also compete with each other, which is solved by each clinging to your either side.

As mentioned Ned and Cat spoil you, which makes it hard for you to get in trouble. Ned tries to be stern, but your tears make him feel as if his heart will shatter into a million pieces. Cat doesn’t even try. In her eyes, you always be her little baby no matter how grown and that you could do no wrong. 

The whole family is fiercely protective of you. Panic spreads through the family if you ever get hurt or someone makes you cry to which the Starks will reveal their claws to whoever did this. Even a small cut on your finger is enough to have Cat and Sansa tend to it as it’s a life-threatening injury. Ned is basically the only voice of reason, but even he is deeply upset by this.

Any topic of any possible betrothals is shut down. As much as Ned is fiercely protective of you, he could allow you to marry someone who will be kind and treat you with gentleness. But the worry lies with the rest of his family. Cat, Arya, Robb, and Jon hold you close. They don’t trust anyone to treat you the way you deserve to be treated. Sansa, Rickon, and Bran are terrified of the person taking you away from them. 

Benjen when he comes to visit Winterfell is happy to see you. He tries to gift you anything that he finds during his travels. When you were younger, he loved throwing you up high to the worry of Ned and Cat. Even now, there is a playfulness to him, loving to hear the sound of your laughter. 

When the family stumbled upon the direwolves. They were all so excited to show them to you. The direwolves similar to their owners have grown attached to you. If they were not following any of the Starks' children, they were found with you. It made Cat a little nervous, but Ned assures that it was a good sign. Shaggydog and Ghost are the most clingy, their noses pressed to yours as they demand you to pet them. 

The Starks are some of the most loving families. Each one of them cares for you deeply. In how they make sure you are the most comfortable and happy. In how they will shield you from whatever may come. In never making you forget how much you mean to them.

#yandere game of thrones #game of thrones x reader #asoiaf x reader #yandere asoiaf #yandere x reader #platonic yandere #ned stark x reader #catelyn stark x reader #robb stark x reader #sansa stark x reader #arya stark x reader #jon snow x reader #yandere headcanons #x reader #reader insert

[ludcake]

What is the message of sansa’s arc then? that if you dream of falling in love and knights you’re dumb?

What. That's not at all what I said.

Listen, I know this is bait, but let's articulate something here; A Song of Ice and Fire is romantic at its core. Martin wants to articulate romanticism in the same vein as Sir Walter Scott and Dumas the father - and a core thing that he's articulated several times is about *disillusionment*, and that the ending is *bittersweet*.

It's not about someone being dumb; it's about growing up. And whenever you grow up, whether willingly or not, by whatever trial you face, you *change*. You lose something of yourself. You leave a piece of who you used to be behind, and become a new person.

Frankly, I don't think there's a message. I think that Martin is less interested in answering questions than he is in putting the question forward, and examining it. He's not going to end A Song of Ice and Fire with a clear, objective message about the nature of all the themes he's delving into; he's not going to set forth an aside to say, "you can only be redeemed if you do x and y" or "kingship is determined by z".

Sansa's arc is about the chivalric romance, and is directly interrogating the conventions of it; the princely hero, in Joffrey, the distant knight, in Sandor, the interrogation of Heathcliff and paternal authority with Petyr. Sansa's arc is about being a child, and becoming a lady; about how difficult it is. About how everything that you are is ripped away from you in service to that ideal, about becoming a woman, about being alone in a hostile world where you conform or die.

Sansa's arc is about the death of innocence, and of her childhood, and whether she should've held on harder. Same with Arya, for the record! Same with Bran. They're all characters who are transient and specifically deal with the theme of childhood illusion and belief, and they each undergo different journeys that shape them in tragedy, and they lose their innocence in that.

There's no message; just themes that are being played with, and analysed. And in service to that theme, yeah, I think that Sansa won't end the story back at fairy tales or dreaming about finding the "right man" - because I don't think her journey so far is one that's fixed by finding the right person to fall in love with! I don't think her journey so far is fixed by finding a fantasy to live in! She's changed, and she's no longer the same person she was when she watched Loras Tyrell go up against the Mountain in the jousts, and that's part of growing up.

It's not dumb to dream of knights and falling in love. But it is naive, and it doesn't reflect the reality of A Song of Ice and Fire. And it's a belief that harmed Sansa, that hurt her, one that was used against her to hurt her, that was wielded like a blade against her and her family and everyone she loves.

And I don't think that the ultimate conclusion is, "she just had to find the right knight". I don't think the ultimate conclusion is, "she just had to fall in love with the right person". I don't think the conclusion is one that is reaffirming chivalric romance.

The ultimate conclusion, as far as I'm concerned, is one of her coming into her own as a person *independent* of having to fall in love or have a knight or rely on living and flattering men like Joffrey, Petyr or Sandor.

#.txt #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #sansa stark #anon ask

[swallowtail-ageha]

Scrolling through your asoiaf tag and you have such good and correct opinions like how can anyone love just Dany or just Sansa or just Arya like how can anyone not see the parallels between Dany and Sansa it makes me feel so crazy like why are there so few people who love all the girlies?? I genuinely love every single female POV character and can’t imagine hating any of them. I mean sure yeah Cersei is a villain but you’re telling me her tragedy doesn’t touch your heart? Watching this woman desperately try to avoid her prophecy as it unfolds before you doesn’t have you in a death grip? Or like are you unmoved by Sansa telling an annoying snotty little boy how brave he is because she wants him to feel better? Dany comforting Missandei when her brother dies? Arya getting to the house of the black and white and immediately thinning to being a man a cup of water (or at least what she thought was water)? How about Sansa telling Joffrey she hopes Robb cuts his head off? Dany sassing the man who wants to open the fighting pits? Arya telling Jaquen to kill himself? Like please come on. All three girls are obviously different but they share so many very endearing traits. I am fiercely holding tight to my delusion that Dany and Sansa will bond over stories and songs and Arya will teach Dany about all the flowers in Westeros and then Sansa will show them how to make flower crowns and embroider little emblems on Arya’s clothes

First of all tysm!!!!

The whole arya vs sansa vs dany fandom fight frustrates me to no end, mainly because all parties involved seem to have little to no empathy to the characters whose stans they oppose. It's all maliciously extrapolating some parts of the text to make them see worse than what they are (ex: daenerys' "if i look back i am lost" getting twisted from "dany knows that dwelling on what ifs and turning your back after you have taken a commitment will only damage you in the long term" in "dany doesn't want to reflect on her past mistakes and will go mad and get stabbed to death" or sansa getting frustrated at sweetrobin being a sign of her being ableist and classist while it's. Just a normal reaction of a stressed and traumatized 13 yo who is otherwise very sweet to her cousin)

For loving the female characters same! Even those who commit outwardly villainous acts do get lots of humanizing moments, Cersei, as awful as she is, is simply a product of the hyper misogynistic society she lives in plus years of parental and spousal abuse (and the doomed by prophecy vibes) and. I genuinely don't get how people can look at the walk of shame and say it's a fitting punishment to her crimes

Overall all the hate for female characters that are more complex or more driven or more morally ambiguous than what most female characters are presented as in other media in a fandom who (supposedly) prides itself in liking morally ambiguous characters is.. frustrating, really. I blame both fandom misogyny but also the GoT series, as it's outright changes in female character's actions and stories to make them look better or worse than what they originally were skewered the visions of almost everyone in the fandom (arya is an egregious victim of this. Scenes such as her caring for Weasel or her befriending sex workers in braavos don't exist and they added that "all girls are idiot" scene that i hate and they removed all her plan to free the northmen from harrenal and she got turned from traumatized child to hashtag no one super cool assassin and her character got straight up murdered in the tv series.)

Oh and also for kickstarting the whole jonsa vs jonerys thing which i'm pretty sure is the origin of the stupid dany vs sansa wars

And yes!! Dany Sansa and Arya should get to meet and reunite! While i do think that there will be some slight tensions between Sansa and Arya because they left on Not So Well terms, they have also matured a lot, so i do think they would have an heartfelt reunion. Meanwhile Dany and Arya could bond because of both their connection to Braavos and Arya's admiration for those who free slaves, and Dany would empathize (and feel a common ground) with Sansa for her being a child who had all her family die and got married extremely young while beeing creeped on by older men, while Sansa, who is shown to admire women like Margaery or Myranda, who are shown to be very keen regarding politics or social issues, something that Dany is

In the end, i genuinely hope that all three of these traumatized little girls get their happy ending and none of them dies, they all are interesting and complex characters that share parallels with each other, and it sucks that because of stupid ship wars or discussions on who would get the throne they get pitted against each other. THEY WOULD BE FRIENDS Y'ALL

#anyways i am holding onto the hope that ADoS ends with dany legalizing gay marriage and marrying sansa #sorry if it gets super rambly and incoherent anon because i always tend to do this when i get an ask #i just want to tell you that your ask made my day and it was all on point!!!! i hope you have a nice week month year life #asoiaf

[rise-my-angel]

It is much easier for me to believe that Lyanna was manipulated by Rhaegar in some way, if not outright kidnapped. You won't believe me but I have seen people argue that since we know her personality was like Arya's so how could she "allow" herself to be kidnapped 🤦🤦 as if Arya doesn't get kidnapped so many times. The biggest evidences though for Rhaegar being a sinister figure are found all over Sansa's story. Bael-ish kidnaps Sansa, Joffrey sings a song for her and Marillion offers to make a song for her, calling her a rose, and all these men sexually assaulted her. Tyrion on their wedding, wears rubies and he forcibly married her.

My best guess for what actually happened is that the only way in which Lyanna "allowed" herself to get kidnapped, was by not pulling out a sword she didn't have/was not trained to even use, and fight back against grown men trained in combat.

So, here's my theory:

What likely happened, (in my opinion just to cover my ass), is that Rhaegar at the tourney at Harrenhal gifts the crown of love and beauty to the already betrothed 14 year old Lyanna, since he likely knows that Elia will not be able to have more children after Aegon is born, considering she known to be prone to illness and was in medical distress for some months after giving birth to Rhaenys. And at this point he is obsessed with this prophecy and he thinks he needs three heads of a dragon, i.e three children born of his line. And he will need a third child from someone after Elia can't give him more. So, he chooses Lyanna and has to bide his time.

It isn't an unreasonable guess to say that it probably was becoming more well known that Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert due to his irresponsible appetite for bedding many women. It makes sense people could put that together, Lyanna is dedicated to her family and Robert would undoubtedly be unfaithful their entire marriage. If Rhaegar has developed an obsession with her being the one to provide him that third child, it makes sense he learns she is unhappy in her betrothal.

Likely somewhere around the Vale is where this happened, considering the timeline of where all of the Starks currently were at the time she disappeared. So when she is in the south, Rhaegar has a lot more resources to do this. So he waits for a time Lyanna is alone and approaches her. Now she's just a 15 year old girl now suddenly alone with the Crown Prince, likely as intimidated as she is a little star struck considering who he is. Rhaegar needs to lure her away far enough that she won't just run for help. So he promises that as the prince, he can help legally break Lyannas unhappy betrothal for her but does not tell her how.

Offer her something she wants without details and get her to come with him. By the time Lyanna likely put together this isn't what she thought it was and that she's too far away from her family to be safe, is when the actual kidnapping occurs. She goes with him willingly thinking he wants to just help her with something in her life, with no way of knowing he was about to separate her from her family.

By the time Lyanna realizes she is in a bad situation, she's too far away from anywhere she knows to get help and has no choice but to go with him. She is 15 years old, she's just a girl now fearing for her life if she tried to run or fight now. And by the time he takes her to Dorne, he keeps her in a tower with three of the best Kingsguard to ensure she does not escape and no one comes to get her out. He then stays there until he knows shes pregnant, a situation she also likely did not fight back on because of how isolated and powerless she already is here. She is all alone, fighting back could mean her life.

Then of course, word gets out of what Rhaegar has done, Brandon Stark, who has no way of knowing he's taken her to Dorne, goes to Kings Landing to try and demand his sisters return, accompanied along with their father to help and the rest is history.

Make no mistake. They never spoke before that day.

Rhaegar was the Prince and heir to the Iron Throne, who is married to a Dornish Princess and now has 2 children of his own including his own son and heir. Lyanna is a 14-15 year old girl, and the firstborn daughter of a major Northern house who live a thousand miles apart in completely different regions of the country. They would NEVER have been able to share any correspondence together and no one knew or would have found out long before that day.

Ravens dont just fly to the person the letter is for, it goes through a system of people, usually a Maester who facilitates the incoming and outgoing letters, who then either himself or a squire, hand delivers the letter to the correct person. Note most times especially in the first season, when important letters are delivered to the Starks its by either Maester Luwin or Grand Maester Pycelle, and the letters seals have already been opened, hence why they know who to deliver the letter to. Example: How would Luwin have known the letter at the start of the series was from Lysa or how would he have known it specifically was for Catelyn if he did not have to open it first to read its contents to find out.

SOMEONE in the Stark household would have realized that the 14-15 year old Lyanna was receiving letters from the Prince, if not just someone important from Kings Landing, and stepped in then and there. And if he wrote her out of the blue, the first thing Lyanna would have done was tell her family that the PRINCE had sent her a letter. We know the Starks are all very honest with each other, if he wrote her out of the blue, she would've told her brothers.

Also, there are spies everywhere in Kings Landing. If Rhaegar was sending secret letters, someone would've found that out and to whom. Note Catelyn had said she doesn't trust a raven to carry the words to Ned about the attempt on Brans life, or her saying Lysa's head would be on a spike if the wrong person read her letter about the Lannisters. Meaning even she well knows that it is very easy for letters to get into the wrong hands.

Someone (lets be real, probably Varys) would have learned Rhaegar was sending letters to Lyanna. Which in the well over a decade after her death, would have said something to SOMEONE that they were sharing correspondence. Davos line in season 2 of "Lord Varys knows what you had for breakfast three days ago. There are no secrets here." Is clear cut enough to imply that even a man who grew up in Flea Bottom, knows that if you live in Kings Landing, Lord Varys knows you and your secrets already.

Rhaegar was not sending secret letters to Lyanna and no one knew or no one said anything in the conflict that followed or in the decades since.

Lyanna did not run away nor go to him willingly, she would have no way to even communicate with the Crown Prince and heir to the Iron Throne without a single soul learning that information. Her family would have found out and the Starks would have done something about it then and there.

Lyanna likely went with him thinking that he was taking her somewhere reasonable to help her legally end a betrothal she didn't want, not knowing it meant he was taking her away from her family and by the time she realized, she was likely too powerless and in lands she's never been in before to try and run.

Also Lyanna deeply cares about her brothers. The story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree is all the evidence needed to show that she is deeply loving and loyal to her family and the people of the North. She would not run from them just beacuse of a betrothal she didn't like, she loved her brothers dearly.

She was taken from them. She was tricked into walking into a kidnapping under false pretenses. Rhaegar was a fully grown man in a position of great power who used Lyanna's young naivety and venerability to his advantage.

Lyanna did not need to be carried away kicking and screaming for it to still be a kidnapping.

Also the idea that Lyanna did not want to marry Robert because he already had bastards and slept around, would leave her entire life and family behind to run away with a man who is married with 2 children is braindead.

And if I even hear the word annulment, I will explode into rage like I'm Oberyn Martell's fucking head.

#shoutout to miniaturewizardstudentsworld for helping fill in some missing details of this theory for me #im gonna risk tagging but it if the tags suddenly disappear #it means someone happened in my inbox okay we all know the drill on this blog by now #game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #lyanna stark #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar #anti rhaegar stans #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti rhaelya #anti targ stans #long post

[esther-dot]

Any thoughts on Sansa saying she wants the Great Sept burned? Is she a witch?

Dontos nodded. "He made a great pyre of the trees as an offering to his new god. The red priestess made him do it. They say she rules him now, body and soul. He's vowed to burn the Great Sept of Baelor too, if he takes the city." "Let him." When Sansa had first beheld the Great Sept with its marble walls and seven crystal towers, she'd thought it was the most beautiful building in the world, but that had been before Joffrey beheaded her father on its steps. "I want it burned." "Hush, child, the gods will hear you." "Why should they? They never hear my prayers." (ACOK, Sansa IV)

No, I don't think she's a witch, but there is something to her wishes coming true:

I hope he falls and shames himself, she thought bitterly. I hope Ser Balon kills him. When Joffrey proclaimed her father's death, it had been Janos Slynt who seized Lord Eddard's severed head by the hair and raised it on high for king and crowd to behold, while Sansa wept and screamed. later -> Morros dropped his lance, fought for balance, and lost. One foot caught in a stirrup as he fell, and the runaway charger dragged the youth to the end of the lists, head bouncing against the ground. Joff hooted derision. Sansa was appalled, wondering if the gods had heard her vengeful prayer. But when they disentangled Morros Slynt from his horse, they found him bloodied but alive. "Tommen, we picked the wrong foe for you," the king told his brother. "The straw knight jousts better than that one." (ACOK, Sansa I)

Now, he didn't die, but I still think that's the beginning of a fun little pattern.

Across the city, thousands had jammed into the Great Sept of Baelor on Visenya's Hill, and they would be singing too, their voices swelling out over the city, across the river, and up into the sky. Surely the gods must hear us, she thought. [...] ...toward the end, she even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound. He is no true knight but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him. later -> Her throat was dry and tight with fear, and every song she had ever known had fled from her mind. Please don't kill me, she wanted to scream, please don't. She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again, but then she remembered. It was not the song of Florian and Jonquil, but it was a song. Her voice sounded small and thin and tremulous in her ears. Gentle Mother, font of mercy, [...] She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking. Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps. later -> "It's done! Done! Done! The city is saved. (ACOK, Sansa VII)

Twofer! The people are saved and the Hound's fury/assault ends in him weeping.

Not sure if we should count this one, she did want to kill Joffrey back in AGOT and she thinks about praying for Margaery's protection from him, but I can't remember a specific wish in ASOS:

Sansa followed unresisting. I could never abide the weeping of women, Joff once said, but his mother was the only woman weeping now. In Old Nan's stories the grumkins crafted magic things that could make a wish come true. Did I wish him dead? (ASOS, Sansa V)

Martin is even playing this game in TWOW!

This time her eyes met Harry's. She smiled just for him, and said a silent prayer to the Maiden. Please, he doesn't need to love me, just make him like me, just a little, that would be enough for now. later -> “I hope you joust better than you talk.” For a moment he looked shocked. But as the song was ending, he burst into a laugh. “No one told me you were clever.” He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. “Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.” He grinned. “I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?” (TWOW, Alayne I)

The guy is charmed. Oops, I almost forgot the best example:

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. "Life is not a song, sweetling," he'd told her. "You may learn that one day to your sorrow." In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound's voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. "Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants." (AGOT, Sansa VI) later -> much later -> much much later -> Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. "Please, my lord. Mercy. I'll … I'll go, I will, I …" No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended. (ADWD, Jon II)

I understand that politically, it would be a mess for Cersie to blow it up a la the show, and she'd lose all support blah blah blah, but I think the Sept will burn. Maybe that's later during Dany's great kaboomb of KL, but I'd kinda hate it if it was burned as part of everything and didn't get singular focus. Martin so frequently references Ned's death on the steps of the Sept we have this feeling of it being a place of horror and great injustice, and I'd like it to be a real moment. I would find it rewarding if it was Cersei, because she’d unwittingly be carrying out a wish of Sansa’s, a form of justice for the Starks. Also, we have that whole scene of her being enraptured by the tower of the hand burning, she has her own trauma tied to the Sept now, and in her scene of shame, she sees Ned and Sansa, so it’s all very present even as late as ADWD. And we know Martin is prepping another wish coming true in TWOW:

👀👀👀 Regardless of when/how, I do think Sansa will get her wish regarding the Sept and Harry (although I’m sure that one will upset her, she’s very soft-hearted!)

Again, not because she's a witch, because of the author's interest in justice and also, part of his series long project of unwinding simplistic beliefs and notions to replace them with a much more complex truth. Not to say people are dumb to believe in the first place, but more of an examination of faith and how prayers being answered can be the mystical explanation for a something that someone does for us, or we might even do for ourselves. As in, it was Sansa's longstanding kindness to the Hound, the relationship she built with him as well as her treatment of him in the moment that saved her from him.

#dot chat #sansa stark #asoiaf speculation

[ashleyfanfic]

"Stay A Thousand Years"

Is a fun little choral version of Jon and Dany's love song "Truth" from Game of Thrones. Oh, why did he write it? Cause he felt like it and it went with what could have been with their epic love story and BECAUSE THEY FUCKING DESERVED IT. Oh, don't think it's that important that this little version ended up being release? Did you know he also did a special one for Jaime and Brienne that was never released because Jon and Dany's was more epic?

You will never convince me that everyone involved with that show knew Dany was going down a dark path. NEVER! Yeah, some of the actors have to justify it to be settled into their role and live with the fact that they were part of one of the greatest television spectacles of all time that epically crashed and burned for bad storytelling and "subverting expectations". Guys, they literally tried to justify her death by saying "she killed slavers and we all cheered". TYRION SAID THIS! Yes we all fucking cheered. She killed people who enslaved other people. She killed bad people. Her brother was abusive to her and threatened to cut her child out and leave it for Drogo if he didn't get what he wanted. He was crazy and would have been a terrible ruler. But no, we should take the way he died and the way she let him die as her madness.

So, let's flip the coin and look at the perennial fanboy favorite, Stannis Baratheon. Let's see, who were the people we saw Stannis kill? Like, actually kill. Well, he sacrificed his brother and law to the lord of light. He tried to kill Gendry but used his blood to help along the deaths of Joffrey, Robb, and Balon Greyjoy. Granted, Joffrey and Balon were pieces of shit. But Robb, for all his faults and stupidity, looked to be a not horrible king. Then, in the biggest douche bag move of all the douche bag moves on the show, Stannis had his daughter burned alive out of religious zealotry. To help him win a battle that it was clear he wasn't going to win. His sweet, precious, intelligent daughter who loved him and him. You want to talk about characters on this show who did nothing wrong, look no further than Shireen Baratheon. But Stannis okayed her being cooked over a fire like a hot dog.

My long and winding point goes back to this: the villain arch of Daenerys didn't make sense then, it doesn't make sense now, and it will never make sense. Some of these actors get really into their roles and they mean a lot to them. They have to find some way to justify their actions in order to be able to make it come across on the screen believably. Which is what I think Kit's deal is, cause when he's actually made to talk about it with a fan or even in from of Emilia, he's not so set on Jon made the right decision. In fact, from the clips that were released of his chat with the fan over that zoom call or whatever, he's firmly in the Jon and Dany Together Forever club. He agrees that it made all the sense in the world for them to be together. Because it does. They are the alpha and omega, fire and ice, the true love story of that show. Their characters and their coming from nothing and into the front of the story is what it's fucking about. It's called Song of Ice and Fire. Not Ice and his shitty cousin he thought was his sister (don't even get me started on the destruction done to Arya and Sansa in those final seasons, or God forbid, Jaime Lannister).

I wish we could all agree that no matter what narrative anyone in the cast or crew want to try to pin on it, the final season failed so epically bad that a lot of things happened: a petition was started to redo the entire last season (which had no chance of going anywhere but 1.4 million is a lot of people), Kit Harington checked himself into rehab (there were signs during filming that he might not have been doing so great and God bless him he didn't deserve the emotional torture those two writer asshats did to him all the time), COUNTLESS celebrities all made it very public that they were with Daenerys, the ending was stupid, and she and Jon should have ruled the seven kingdoms, and the best, the piece that really tells you how badly they fucked it up, Dan and Dave were removed from having anything to do with Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Honestly, none of us should have trusted them when one half of that due made the Wolverine Origin movie and made Deadpool silent. He's the merc with the mouth. You do not silence Deadpool.

If you really think the ending of that show settles with everyone ok, then tell me why Kit Harington is trying so very hard to get a show with Jon Snow started. He hates the ending his character had even though he said it made sense to him at the time. If it did that, baby, why you trying so hard to bring Jon Snow back?

And then you have the people at HBO. If you think that your favorite is the face of that show, I will out right laugh at you and call you a moron to your face. Aside from the dragons, DAENERYS is the face of Game of Thrones. Not Sansa, not Tyrion, not Jon, Arya, or Bran. No, the face is Daenerys because she was epic. There was no other character on that show like her. She is the one that TRULY brought magic into that world. Not only did she have the dragons, but she had been proven to be impervious to fire. That was shown before she was gifted the eggs. There was something special about her in her first scene.

Which brings me back to Ramin and his love for Daenerys. Do you know how many songs he's done for Daenerys? A LOT. "Mhysa" for one. He even admitted in an interview once that he liked writing music for her and her scenes. Of course he did. That's where all the magic was. He also says that he wrote the love song for Jon and Dany backwards, doing the large sweeping song of their love scene and then going backwards and doing the softer tones of them just bonding. But then, to find out that he'd written this other song, this "Stay A Thousand Years" based off Dany's line in the first episode of the final season to represent their love for one another and how epic it COULD HAVE BEEN. They were the point.

I'll bring you back to my brother's point he makes all the time: if Jon's purpose for being brought back wasn't to kill the Night King, then what was the point? There are scenes shot with Emilia where she is clearly wearing a baby bump tummy. Perhaps the true plan, what should have happened, was Dany being pregnant by Jon (otherwise why have Tyrion bring it up in Season 7 and then Jon basically "Hold my beer" to her if that wasn't going to be the point?). But you know what you probably couldn't do and get away with it, just have everyone kind of go along with it? Have Jon kill a pregnant Daenerys. You think people complained about Jon killing Dany now? There is no way they could have done that which means their ending of turning Dany mad and Jon having to put her down like a rabid dog wouldn't have worked. And what wouldn't it have worked? Because like the ending we got, it made no sense. Honestly, the worst thing that ever happened to Daenerys is actually meeting and listening to Tyrion. Her life went to shit after that happened.

#not sure where this rant came from #anti got #pro jonerys #ramin djawadi #extra song #stay a thousand years

[melrosing]

Do u have any future ideas where Sansa’s story goes? So many fans (not so much here) seem to reduce Sansa to be dumb/lacking any important skills and when you compare her to Arya/Jon/Dany who are learning alot it does seem like Sansa is the least equipped but she has to have some importance to the future plotline right, why else would she be a pov for 4 books?

No clear ideas on where Sansa is headed to be honest?? Like I do think she will ultimately end up in a leadership role, but her education so far has been all politics and little in the way of policy - i.e. she has learnt how to pick your allies and watch your enemies, plus the difference between carrot and stick methods in leadership... but she's learnt little about the more mundane policies that we see other characters with leadership arcs explore, e.g. Jon counting his beets, Dany struggling with the daily demands of Meereen etc etc.

So I'm curious as to how GRRM sees her story setting her up for leadership. Like I understand Sansa is a literal child and of course it's difficult to write how any kid would come to understand the nuances of managing a large region: Dany and Jon's arcs don't really fully pick up the complexities of this until the characters are about 15/16, and Sansa's only 13.

So whilst I do think she could be a good leader once she's 'completed her education' and comes of age, I'm not sure where GRRM could justifiably place her in the endgame given she'll still probably be no older than 15 by the story's conclusion (and more likely only 14).

All that said, I also find it really irritating the way people talk down Sansa in order to talk up other characters. I am v much aware that the reverse exists and I find that equally irritating. To speak solely on Sansa though, I think she has a different kind of story to some of the other protagonists but it is in no way inferior - the idea that 'passive' characters rank below 'active' ones in terms of who makes for a complex and engaging character with something meaningful to contribute.... is juvenile lol. You can have active characters who move a plot along at a breakneck speed, piling up skills on skills, but still have little in the way of characterisation or thematic resonance and end up being a bore to read.

Meanwhile, even where Sansa's only watching events take place around her, I always find her chapters visceral as hell, and some of her themes (like true knighthood/the songs/losing and finding your family) are practically the heart of ASOIAF. I love her story and I am v excited to read her next POVs.

#sansa stark #asoiaf #ask

[jackoshadows]

Can I just ask because every now and then I see these ‘eww incest’ posts on the tag. If fictional incest is so taboo and wrong, if it’s a line that cannot be crossed, then how can one be okay with a story set in a world where the author has described Alysanne and Jaehaerys as a  ‘great Targaryen love story’? Shouldn’t he be describing that as one of the most disgusting Targaryen love stories given their platonic love for each other as children and siblings clearly turned into romantic and sexual love at some point?

Clearly biology and science and sexual attraction works differently in GRRM’s magical fantasy world.

Why are there love songs being written about Aemon the Dragonknight and Queen Naerys in Westeros? These two are also siblings. Here is Sansa talking about her great love for Joffrey and comparing it to the love between siblings Naerys and Aemon:

I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies.” - Sansa, AGoT

This is Naerys and Aemon

Naerys loved Prince Aemon the most out of her two brothers, as he knew how to make her laugh. Aemon was also more like Naerys in character, while Prince Aegon was not.

By the way, I made a post the other day about how Jon/Arya is a foil to Joffrey/Sansa and left this one out. Here is another example of  foreshadowing, where Sansa proclaims that her love for Joffrey is the same as that of Naerys for Aemon when in reality Joffrey is an abusive sadist. Meanwhile Aemon and Naerys’ love for each other as children mirror that of Jon and Arya’s and Jon even cosplays as Aemon the dragonknight as a child.

And Arya…he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. - Jon, AGoT

Now, I can understand if one is against fictional incest and do not want to engage in it. That’s totally fine. However, why criticize other readers for engaging with fictional romantic incestual ships that are prevalent in this fictional world? When the author is leading us somewhere and we as readers are only following where the author is taking us, why use real world taboos to call out readers because incest is wrong.

And by the way Arya is a skinny little 9/10 years old in ACoK/ASoS and Gendry is likely 14/15 when he meets her in ACoK.  Jon Snow keeps referring to her as small and skinny, a child he cannot imagine in Ramsay’s bed. And yet we talk about the romantic nature of Arya and Gendry’s interactions because the author has indeed written in the romantic chemistry there between a 9/10 year old and a 14/15 year old. Why is that okay but incest is the line that should not be crossed?

I repeat, pretty much every major ship in this series is problematic by real world standards. Sansa/Sandor shippers (Sansa is 11 when 27 year old Sandor falls for her) calling Rhaegar/Lyanna creepy and Rhaegar a paedophile must be the funniest thing yet in this fandom. How self-unaware does one have to be to not recognize the double standards there?

Also, note to Jonsa shippers. If your reason for taking all the book material and foreshadowing from Jon and Arya’s canonical relationship and handing it over to Sansa is because ‘Jon and Sansa are not close’  then stop using Aemon/Naerys, Alysanne/Jaehaerys etc to justify your crackship. These characters were siblings who grew up loving each other.

And besides, if one has to go for an incestual relationship where both characters are not close, there is always the superior Jon and Daenerys. Jon and Dany, who have actual canonical, textual foreshadowing for meeting and falling in love, actual parallels as leaders, are close in age and maturity, have had sexual partners, who have loved and lost, who look beyond class and gender, have the same interest to help people, are each other’s type etc.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness…

Jon and Sansa, despite growing up together, are indifferent to each other for a reason. They are polar opposites. Jon can’t spare a single thought of concern for Sansa’s status and whereabouts, Sansa admits to forgetting that Jon exists. Jon disdains girly girls like Sansa and Sansa holds bastards as being less than high born nobles. Jon didn’t give a damn about Sansa over 5 books and vice versa and that’s not going to suddenly change in the last book because Sansa’s beauty is so overpowering or whatever. He is not there to give Sansa her Disney princess endgame and that’s not the story GRRM is writing.

#Jon Snow #GRRM #asoiaf #fandom wank #Shipping #incest ships #Jon and Arya #Jon and Daenerys #anti Jonsa

[dialux]

i will burn with a light of my own - notes

Duncan’s prophecy is in three parts:

Moonlight shall be your shield and dawn shall be your sword - refers to Sansa appearing like Talyah/the Mother Rhoyne with the help of moonlight to Lady Zara Wyl, and then how she used the changing light of dawn to appear like Talyah/the Mother Rhoyne to Lord Wyl, Arianne, and the people in the courtyard.

From the eldest shall come the oldest - Jon is the eldest Stark child of the new generation, and he achieves the oldest skill of the Starks, wolfsinging.

The only answer for death can never be death - when Sansa asks the dragon to stop slavery and it offers to burn Meereen and all of Slaver’s Bay to the ground.

The tracts of wood for Castle Wyl’s surrounding walls are made of pine, primarily as a shout-out to my favorite estuary in SoCal, Torrey Pines. 

Prince Lewyn really did have a paramour despite being a Kingsguard, which has been living rent-free in my brain since I read Arys’ chapter in AFFC. Not that Sansa knew this, of course, but there should totes be some random weedy looking folks popping out of nowhere to claim Martell blood is what I’m saying ;)

“Grief is a river which carries me along, but I am the river, too,” whispers Zara. “Hate is a tiger that devours me, but I am the tiger. Rage is a fire that consumes me, but I am the fire.” - This line is adapted from the Jorge Luis Borges essay, “A New Refutation of Time,” which goes “Time is the substance I am made of. Time is a river which sweeps me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger which destroys me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire which consumes me, but I am the fire.”

Druselka was Nymeria of Ny Sar’s companion, a priestess of the Mother Rhoyne who accompanied Nymeria on her journey from the Rhoyne when the Valyrians invaded. She claimed to have heard the Mother Rhoyne calling her children home and led her followers back to the Rhoyne, where the Valyrians enslaved them. In this story, her prophecy was a ruse designed by Nymeria to ensure those that followed her to Westeros would not be without a choice (to return home).

The names of the Wyl sisters (Talyah, Zara, and Mariah) are riffs on Hebrew names, though Mariah is notably also used as a Martell name. 

The four Sand Snakes they meet in the desert are Obara, Nymeria, Tyene, and Elia.

Sulphurous rivers, as far as I can tell, do not exist on Earth, though there is a “Sulphur River” in Texas; sulfur water, on the other hand, does exist, and often results in a) a very strong smell and b) water on fire. So that’s why the Brimstone burns when dragonfire touches it.

Blue fire is usually considered the hottest color, but purple fire would match the eyes of the Targaryens, wouldn’t it?

Fire turns sand to glass if it’s hot enough. The hills of Meereen have copper in them, which is why they form “a crunchy, icy glass that gleams a blue even brighter than the sky.” Were the glass that formed near the Hellholt to be described, due to the sulphur contamination, it would have been a deep, amber color.

“I will live under it for the rest of the days of my life. And if I falter… then death shall be my reward, as it has been for all the rest of my kin.” - A riff on JRRT’s Silm line, “His valour was as a fire yet steadfast as the hills of stone; wise he was and skilled in voice and hand; troth and justice he loved and bore goodwill to all, both Elves and Men, hating Morgoth only; he sought not his own, neither power nor glory, and death was his reward.”

“You question where you can find a beach without waves,” says the old dragon, “but the truth at the heart of this world is that there are no eyes that cannot dream.” - Taken from the Telugu song “Nee Prashnalu Neeve,” from the movie Kotha Bangara Lokam.

#a tempest; a cyclone #my writing

[howdoesagrapewrites]

i love when you talk about the readers legacy/history it really shows your dedication to everything you write 💗

I want to ask how is reader remembered? do greens and blacks have different views on her? Or is she blamed for the dance since she technically cheated on Aemond and tried to run + being a bastard and a woman

You're so sweet 😭😭 sometimes I'm kid of scared I go overboard but it's really nice that you appreciate it 💜

Omg I love this question ‼️‼️‼️

Reader overall could have it worse as far as historic legacy goes. Though of course Alicent and Otto don't want the bad press on Aemond, it is kind of inevitable. Otto tries to spin it around as "see? Daemon and Rhaenyra raise unstable, easily triggered children. Poor little reader, she was probably abused by those horrible monsters, now imagine if they sat on the iron throne" they also try to reframe her death as accident caused by a senile Vhagar, but absolutely no one buys that.

By the blacks, she's seen as a strong tempered girl who was held captive by an obsessive prince and tried to go back to their family by any means possible. This would be pretty accurate if they did not downplay or straight up deny that reader had a strong bond with Alicent, Helaena and Daeron. Some say that Daemon burned all letters that could prove there was ever a bond between Daeron and his daughter, this is a rumor, as there is no evidence that Daemon ever targeted letters specifically when attacking the greens, and they could have been lost to a number of incidents.

Since Aemond got the wort part, people don't usually read the story as Y/N cheating on him as much as they think of Daeron and Y/N being cruelly separated by Aemond's whim

The most popular versions of the story usually revolves around Daeron and reader's romance, but for a number of years, singing a song with those contents would mean you would be fired from court (is not a favorite amongst the blacks)

The greens paint reader as being more defenseless, and Aemond sadly succumbing to Targaryen madness, but they take her presence at Aegon's coronation as a sign of her supporting his claim over Rhaenyra's

Reader is often called "the fist horn" or "the first fire" because it was her death that truly began the bloodshed amongst the factions

Since reader could be considered devout (thanks Alicent) she is considered a "saint" of sorts, you know, a person with a strong faith whose life is studied by religious scholars for several reasons (most of them involve some sort of "Mary Magdalene" rhetoric about the reader being born unholy but then turning to the faith and being "saved") one supreme septon said "Even the stranger coddled her softly before taking her away"

Bonus: as a child, Sansa didn't really like this story, Daeron was a knight, yet she couldn't save her beloved, and then the war came. She found this too depressing and asked for her septa to tell her a different story. But after finding herself in a similar situation, this story becomes an important part of her development, as she grows, she thinks she could understand you better than anyone (she's a reader kinnie, basically)

#dragon jaws #i think this has been one of my favorite asks about Dragon Jaws #anons 🩷 #i could expand on this just ask

[hamliet]

Rereading A Game of Thrones

In light of my recent Fire & Blood reread, I decided to reread the whole ASOIAF series because, well, why not. Below are some general observations/musings on the themes, character arcs, alchemy, and foreshadowing of book 1. I'll do this for the others as well. It's not really a meta so much as observations and thoughts.

Themes

Good Intentions Pave the Way to Tragedy

The most basic storytelling in existence tells us that protagonists have plans work out for them, just because they're good people with good intentions. Martin's whole schtick with A Game of Thrones is turning this on its head.

So many POV character's arc ends with their best intentions blowing up in their faces.

Ned tries to do the right thing and appoint the rightful heir. Robert's will was given to him, after all. He then even confesses to treason to save his daughter. He's still executed.

Catelyn leaves Winterfell as a mother to get justice for her child who was almost murdered. As a result of lies, she ends up unjustly arresting Tyrion and unwittingly helps set in motion a chain of events that results in the loss of her husband, risks to her daughters, and the potential loss of her eldest son, who crowns himself king in the north.

Daenerys saves Mirri Maz Duur and Eroeh and uses MMD to save Drogo. It just results in more death; the khalasar consumes itself, she loses Drogo and her child, and learns how little a life is worth when everything else is gone. Eroeh even faces a worser fate.

Sansa only wanted a happy ending like in the romantic songs she listens to; she accidentally gives Cersei the warning she needs to arrest her father. She then pleads for mercy and is rewarded with her father's head. Sansa had no bad intentions, but she lost her family and her freedom for this.

Arya intends to be a strong warrior and hates when others are bullied. She kills a boy at the end out of fear. She just wants to save herself. She didn't do anything wrong per se, but it will haunt her and influence her negatively down the line.

Good intentions, even righteous actions, guarantee nothing. But that doesn't mean they are pointless, either. Why? Because, Daenerys's arc shows us what you can do when only the dead and stone remain, when she arises from the ashes like a phoenix. Jon's arc shows us that others can pull us back, make loss bearable.

Duty vs Love

Duty vs. love is one of the main elements of a Romantic story, and Martin's identified himself as a Romantic. Guinevere and Lancelot, anyone? The love that cannot be, the love that is doomed because of duty--there's conflict. Courtly love is a key piece of this, and it's literally defined as:

a highly conventionalized medieval tradition of love between a knight and a married noblewoman, first developed by the troubadours of southern France and extensively employed in European literature of the time. The love of the knight for his lady was regarded as an ennobling passion and the relationship was typically unconsummated.

(Also yes the Romantics drew heavily on medieval tradition.)

It ties into the motif of the human heart against itself. Ned, the most honorable man, in the end chooses love over duty (Sansa's life over his honor). Arguably, he chose both, because his duty as a father is to protect his child first and foremost.

Yet those who eschew duty for love completely aren't framed positively either: see, Cersei and Jaime, Robert over Lyanna, etc. Neither, of course, is eschewing love for duty. Stannis, we know from the show, will in the end choose duty over love (burning Shireen), and it will be for nothing.

Instead of "duty or love," what Martin seems to be trying to do is explore the nuances of individual situations and choices, and to suggest that duty to others' wellbeing can't so easily be separated from love.

Jon, after all, ends up trying to choose between duty (the Night's Watch) and love (helping Robb become King of the North). In the end, though, it's the love of his friends on the Night's Watch that brings him back. It's not just because he said some words. It's their love, and it's the reality of the Others' threats--since the Others threaten them all, including every person Jon loves.

Justice and Mercy

It's a tale as old as time (or at least as old as the Bible): justice vs. mercy. Can true justice exist without mercy? Or is that just abuse itself? Is mercy really the exclusion of justice?

Stannis, for example, is said to be the full embodiment of justice. And notably? That's not a good thing:

Lord Stannis in particular. His claim is the true one, he is known for his prowess as a battle commander, and he is utterly without mercy. There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.

Just as we in the real world struggle with this question of when mercy becomes injustice, and when justice becomes injustice without mercy, so the characters struggle. Even Ned's honorable justice--executing Garen at the start of the book--turns out to have been wrong, and he's executed in a similar fashion at the end of the book. But it's not ironic justice; it's just sad.

Ned is caught precisely because of both, just like love and duty: justice, in that he refused to act in time to get Joffrey under his wing, but would have saved his life if he had. But it wasn't just to put Joffrey on the throne, so he doesn't.

He also tries to show mercy to Cersei by encouraging her to leave with her kids. He just misunderstands Cersei and assumes that, as a mother, she will prioritize her kids' lives first and foremost. Except, the tragedy is that Cersei has never had her father prioritize her life as anything more than a pawn to be used, and so Cersei calls Ned's bluff: "what of my wrath, Lord Stark?" It'd be easy to say Ned underestimated Cersei because he saw her as a role and not as a person, but I don't think that's quite true either. The reality is... Ned had good intentions. It just didn't work out, because injustice is the opposite of justice and of mercy, and injustice isn't a force of mindless orcs from a foreign land to be brought down. It's among us and it's within each of us.

The Outsiders

The real heroes of the story, the ones I'll call the Big Six, are Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, and Sansa. Interestingly, all of them are outsiders--except Sansa. Jon is a bastard. Daenerys is an exile. Tyrion is a dwarf. Bran is crippled. Arya is a girl who doesn't like society's rules--and Jon directly compares her situation to his: "Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had."

But just in case we were tempted to brush off Arya and especially Sansa as being not truly outsiders, we have Daenerys' chapter where she eats the horse heart which tells us exactly why Sansa is also an outsider to a degree:

If she choked on the blood or retched up the flesh, the omens were less favorable; the child might be stillborn, or come forth weak, deformed, or female.

Yep, female is seen as weak and a poor omen.

If I Look Back, I Am Lost

This is the line Dany repeats to herself after Drogo's death. She can't bring herself to look back at what she could have done differently. In the moment she says this, it makes sense: she can't bring Drogo back, and she can't undo what she's done already. She can only look forward. However... she's going to have to look back at some point, probably in TWOW, and that should provide a wake-up.

The most notable other character doing this at this point (don't worry, everyone will end up here by book 5!) is Tyrion. His proposal to Shae--that she act like his lover with romance--is essentially him reenacting his trauma with Tysha. A whore pretended to be your wife, so now you're asking Shae to pretend to love you. It should be clear from the start that this isn't going to end anywhere good.

Alchemy

Dismemberment of a "good man" is usually a symbol in alchemy for what needs to happen in order for the process to go. The man's parts are scattered. and he is killed, but from that scattering, everything will be purified and then brought back together. Pretty clearly the Starks (and also Tyrion and Daenerys, whom Ned tried to save).

The Process

When Jon says his vows in the godswood, it's clear that the weirwood trees are designed after the three stages of the alchemical process: "The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath. The wide smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward." The black stage is associated with death and decay, the white with skeletons (rinsing away of impurities). Red is the final stage.

The city of King's Landing also emphasizes these three colors: the Sept on Visenya's hill is white and crystal; the Dragonpit on Rhaenys' hill is black, and the Red Keep on Aegon's is, of course, red.

When Sansa finally gives up on her delusions of Joffrey, she "g[ives] herself to the darkness," which could be read as giving herself over to the black stage, to being transformed.

Green is the color of the prima materia, or the substances that will be made into the philosopher's stone. Tyrion fights at the Greek Fork. Bran is referred to as a "only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you." When Daenerys sets out on the Dothraki see, she has the following conversation:

"It's so green," she said.

"Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood.

To me, this seems to indicate where Daenerys's arc will go: red completion.

The Wind

Again as @argentvive has pointed out, Dany being born in the middle of a terrible storm is likely a reference to the line from the Emerald Tablet about the Philosopher's Stone being "carried by wind". But there are actually a lot of references to wind in AGOT, like this Bran conversation:

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods?" 

Maybe Bran will be an alchemist for Daenerys? Because her association with wind is strong in this story. When Khal Drogo gives her the silver horse, she says "Tell Khal Drogo that he has given me the wind."  Indeed, he's given Dany what she needs to start her journey, and he will give her even more. When she tries to convince her husband to go to Westeros, she tells him ships are "Wooden horses with a hundred legs, that fly across the sea on wings full of wind." Drogo never takes Dany to Westeros, but this is how sailing works. Dany will arrive in Westeros carried by wind.

Also of note: the sea in alchemy can be representative of the mercurial waters, the substance that the stone is dissolved in before being coagulated. The Dothraki fear the sea, but Dany needs it.

Markings

The philosopher's stone, and most romantic couples, in alchemical stories, are made of characters with opposite "markings." These alchemical opposites are:

Male: Sun, sulphur, fire and air, hot and dry, red, gold, heart. Female: Moon, mercury, earth and water, cool and moist, white, silver, mind.

Arya is heavily marked as water and earth. Syrio Forel tells her she must become a "water dancer," and that's precisely what she does.

Pretty much all of the Starks of import are white. Sansa wears white silk. Bran wears silver pins. Jon is also water (snow). However:

Bran often dreams of wings and flying, which might indicate a future air marking for him. Daenerys has a similar dream about wings and flying. Yes, crows vs dragons, whatever. I genuinely wonder if Bran might switch markings at some point like Dany does.

"A dragon was air and fire."<--actual quote.

Daenerys's Rebirth

So as mentioned above, Dany undergoes a switch in her markings. This is also something argentvive has covered extensively. Drogo rides a red horse; Dany silver. Drogo is the "sun and stars," while Dany is the "moon of [his] life." But, as the story tells us through this myth, a moon can become a sun:

Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.

Towards the end of the story, Dany becomes red, sulfur, the sun, fire, and air; she even becomes heart via literally eating a heart. During the Mirri Maz Duur scene, it's noted that Drogo is forced to soak in a tub, and:

Her handmaids filled the tub with tepid water that stank of sulfur, 

After this, Drogo's red horse is killed, because he will no longer be red; Dany will. The entire tent becomes bathed in red, and just in case we weren't aware this was a rebirth scene, Daenerys literally gives birth.

The blood had gone everywhere. Even the sandsilk walls were spotted with red, and the rugs underfoot were black and wet.

But her birth is not finished. No, it's dissolved, but not coagulated. Hence, the fire.

She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs.

The eggs are interestingly placed by the three principles of alchemy: heart, mind (head), and body (since body characters can be, um, lusty). When Dany is reborn through the fire, she is naked like a baby, both child and mother (she's noted to be lactating, which she will use to feed her dragons).

Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion. She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away . . . yet she was unhurt.

The Show That Shall Not Be Named (Mixing references here I know)

In regards to that dreadful show citing Viserys' death as an example of Dany being "cold" to her enemies... whew. So not true. When Viserys is executed, Daenerys does exactly what Ned Stark says anyone who executes another should: look him in the eye. She's asked to turn away, and she refuses. In other words, there's zero framing that we should be disturbed by her reaction--in fact, we should see her as honorable for it. It's also noted that Dany's handmaidens note that Daenerys's grief is real: "You have not laughed since your brother the Khal Rhaggat was crowned by Drogo," said Irri. "It is good to see, Khaleesi."

Rather than Dany's reaction being a sign of her nonexistent coldness, I think it's more another example of the main theme mentioned above: Dany kept trying to protect her brother by not telling him the truth about how the khals viewed him ("Khal Rhaggat"), even though 1) if she had, he'd have hurt her, and 2) he really should have been able to open his eyes and see the truth, but he willingly blinded himself not unlike Robert Baratheon. She had good intentions. It just didn't mean that there weren't extremely negative consequences. That also doesn't mean she should have told him, either.

Insofar as Bran ending up as some kind of king, Tyrion's line in the show was something about how Bran had the best story. A joke in the show, but possibly something like this will be said in the books (and, y'know, make sense). Bran is told by Old Nan: "My stories? No, my little lord, not mine. The stories are, before me and after me, before you too." Stories matter.

Foreshadowing:

It's hard to know what is accurate foreshadowing. There are some elements of George's original plans in this book that have clearly been scrapped. It's a retcon, but also not, because the retconning is less about changing the endgame and more about changing the steps along the journey. For example, the line about Jaime looking "like a king" at Winterfell, Jaime being appointed Warden of the East, etc, all seem to line up with Martin's original plan to make Jaime a villain to take the throne.

That said, for stuff that does pay off:

Jon wondering about his mother is followed up within three short paragraphs with a switch to the line "They said it was Donal Noye who'd forged King Robert's warhammer, the one that crushed the life from Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident." He's your daddy, Jon.

Varys is associated with the scent of lilacs from his very first scene. Lilacs are only else used to describe... the color of Dany and Viserys's eyes. He had Targaryen (or Blackfyre) connections from the start.

Jon and Dany have an interesting parallel that may or may not be alchemical: both are associated with bears. Jon is mentored by Jeor Mormont, and Dany inspires Jorah Mormont.

#agot #a game of thrones #agot meta #asoiaf meta #kinda #a song of ice and fire #daenerys targeryan #jon snow #tyrion lannister #sansa stark #cersei lannister #arya stark #bran stark #varys

[buttercuparry]

Like honestly, Sansa truly was cheated for her trust. She was so in love with the idea of a life like a song that she was desperate to save it. It's not like she was the first teenager to go against a parent but I think what we say is this: how could she trust Cersei who gave the order to kill Lady. Was Sansa truly eager even after the Trident incident?

I think this is the thing. Sansa forces herself into passivity by re-writing the incidents to suit her narrative. Lady's death was on Arya and Cersei. Arya's butcher boy attacked her prince. I think this particular re-write was what made it all go to shit. I think for Sansa this was her attempt at saving her love story (she genuinely made herself believe this. ) and just like in songs and stories in which there comes a divine intervention when the lovers are on the verge of being destroyed, she truly believed that her tattling would result the same. The officials at KL would prevent Ned from taking Sansa away from KL and save her from this unfair "punishment".

It truly was shameful of Cersei to take advantage of Sansa's trust like that but I think it was a given that she would do so. I think what irks even more is after her father was arrested and the household put to sword (although I am not sure if Sansa realized this as it is said she had been searching for friendly faces on the day of Joff's first court), Sansa still was scrambling to collect the pieces of her fraying dream; Arya having traitor's blood and not her. She was still all about being Joffrey's wife.

Sansa isn't a villain. And somewhere deep down she knows when things are wrong:

Sansa was confused. "I don't understand," she said. "Where is Jeyne's father? Why can't Ser Boros take her to him instead of Lord Petyr having to do it?" She had promised herself she would be a lady, gentle as the queen and as strong as her mother, the Lady Catelyn, but all of a sudden she was scared again. 

But she can dismiss them when she hears things that her heart wants.

Sweet Sansa," Queen Cersei said, laying a soft hand on her wrist. "Such a beautiful child. I do hope you know how much Joffrey and I love you."

"You do?" Sansa said, breathless...Her prince loved her. Nothing else mattered.

When Sansa learnt of the "betrayal", she was hurt and confused and scared because what was to happen to her father? And what was to happen to her betrothal?

It wasn't fair to take him away from her on account of whatever her father might have done.

I don't know if all of these can be argued in favor of Sansa and said that this proves that she is someone who can go against the world for her love ( I don't know the merit of it after what has happened though ). Or if it is simply her own righteous belief that she, the perfect lady deserves the crown prince as opposed to Arya who deserves Hodor.

How well I know that, child," Cersei said, her voice so kind and sweet. "Why else should you have come to me and told me of your father's plan to send you away from us, if not for love?" "

It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell

It's the fluctuation for me as well. Sansa previously laid the blame of Lady's death on Cersei and Arya's door. While Cersei was certainly to blame, Sansa recalled none of it at that moment. Also the acceptance of her father's "treachery"...I mean I know she had been shown the letter. But she knew deep down that not all was as they were saying ( The words made her breath come faster, yet still Sansa hesitated. "Perhaps . . . if I might see my father, talk to him about . . . "). But in moments where it comes down to her being insistently pressured, she readily accepts that which would retain her comfortable position: "whatever her father may have done...", " I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. "

Sansa was selfish in the way a kid is selfish I suppose. And her rewrites just exacerbates it- she was in love with Joffrey, a love that's born purely out of a frivolous teenage want of living a life as a song: and these wants could have been beautiful, had the people around her been genuine. But the Trident had shown that they weren't genuine. Her complains about the unfairness started with the belief that her father was needlessly punishing her because of the continuous squabble she found herself engaged in with Arya, since the incident. And herein is the blame because she refuses to see. Still now, she refuses to see that which makes her uncomfortable.

I admit that she had a plan. She had a plan of requesting an exile for her father and then imploring Joffrey to bring him back once she is married. It is not like she didn't love her family (well she did not love all the members of course). She did. And her whole plan was hinged on the false reassurance that Joffrey was in love with her. It was her father's beheading that finally pierced through the illusion.

[daenerysstormreborn]

After finishing reading AGoT, I have a brand new hope for a way the books may differ from the show. I want to see Sansa snap. I want Sansa to be violent. I want her to get her hands dirty!!

In the show, yes, she’s responsible for the deaths of Ramsey and Littlefinger, but they’re detached kills carried out by someone else. I’d much less likely she’ll kill Ramsey in the books since I know that her marriage to him was a show exclusive, but I wouldn’t mind a bit if she did it on behalf of Jeyne. And I can only hope she kills Littlefinger with her own two hands.

To me, Sansa seems like a character who has believed her whole life that that beauty, politeness, and grace are the keys to her safety. If she can be ladylike, she will be safe. I interpret her desires for Arya to be more of a lady as, at the heart, a desire for her sister to be safe. The songs tell of lovely, happy things, so if she can keep things the way they are in the songs, it will bring safety and happiness and the heroes will win. This is a reasonable conclusion a kid might draw. Kids often fail to recognize what they actually want and misidentify the true sources of their anxiety because they simply lack the self awareness. It wouldn’t be a stretch for a child’s internal, subconsciously narrative to take “the gentle and graceful ladies of the stories are happy and safe” and conclude that “beauty and manners will make a girl happy and safe.” Combine that with a desire for her family to be safe, and it all gets expressed as a desire for Arya to be ladylike. I could imagine that at her core, it’s not politeness that Sansa truly values. She has no reason to care if Arya likes dresses. It’s safety she wants, but she’s a child who doesn’t know how to voice that.

But it seems to me like the books are setting her up to learn that these things, these “feminine” qualities, will not save anyone. To be a lady means nothing. Lady was murdered. And I want her to be ANGRY about it. Angry that she wasted so much time and energy trying to be the perfect image of a noblewoman. And I want her to lash out. I think she definitely has it in her, based on her last chapter in AGoT. She thinks multiple times about wanting to hurt others. She is FURIOUS.

He did not hate her, Sansa realized; neither did he love her. He felt nothing for her at all. She was only a … a thing to him. “No,” she said, rising. She wanted to rage, to hurt him as he’d hurt her,

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him,

A kind of madness took over her then, and she heard herself say, “Maybe my brother will give me your head.”

And my favorite:

All it would take was a shove, she told herself. He was standing right there, right there, smirking at her with those fat wormlips. You could do it, she told herself. You could. Do it right now. It wouldn’t even matter if she went over with him. It wouldn’t matter at all.

I can only hope that’s foreshadowing. I hope that, in an impulsive act of violence and rage, she pushes Littlefinger off the Eyrie. Nothing proper or calculated. A simple moment where that madness overtakes her and all the rage she’s had comes out in final shove.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #sansa stark

[tavina-writes]

Do you mind if I ask your top 10 favorite characters (can be male or female) from all of the media that you loved (can be anime/manga, books, movies or tv series)? And why do you love them? Sorry if you've answered this question before.....Thanks....

This is a difficult one! I've loved a LOT of characters over the years even if the current blorbo of interest is NHS from MDZS/CQL bc he's just such a fun little guy BUT lets see if I can try to do this chronologically and not in like, any character ranking fashion:

1 & 2: these two characters are absolutely the rulers of my heart: Huang Rong and her father, Huang Yaoshi from Legend of the Condor Heroes by Jin Yong. I just love my beloved spoiled conwoman princess and her insane evil wuxia version Maes Hughes dad so much. I could write so many essays about the Huangs and how they mean so much to each other and also to me. I'm always insane about family members who have complex relationships with each other and that's super evident with them.

3. Uchiha Madara from Naruto. Now, people who have known me for a long time know that I am a Naruto girlie, and that I skipped all the way to "Sasuke's Insane and Sad Pathetic Ancestor" on the character likes list. I love insane murder men and Madara is an insane murder man! He's also very sad. What's there not to like about him truly.

4. Mirasol from Chalice by Robin McKinley. I have a deep love for beauty and the beast narratives and this one ALSO had magic bees. I love Mirasol for her kindness and her devotion even in the wake of massive change and I have a special fondness for the entire story of Chalice both for the lovely worldbuilding and also Mirasol herself.

5&6. Sansa Stark and Cersei Lannister from A Song of Ice and Fire. I really really love both of these characters for entirely opposing but also really similar reasons! I love them for their flaws. For being stuck in their positions in a world that's really just! not! kind to them! and how they take that and go in such different directions.

7. Sheng Rulan from The Story of Minglan. I have such a soft spot for Rulan. She's petty, she's spoiled, she has so much love and holds onto her principles and her dreams so tightly, she's her father's least favorite child despite also being a legitimate daughter, she finds love, she's so cute, she's the clearest sighted of all four of the Sheng sisters, she's got such a growth arc to her, I love her SO SO MUCH. (I love all three of her sisters too don't get me wrong, Rulan is just my favorite.)

8. Wei Yingluo from The Story of Yanxi Palace. Yingluo! My girl! Never have I ever seen a female lead with so much pent up rage and desire to get even in a story that does not judge her for her hard edges and her propensity for violence. I love that about her. I love how kindness and cruelty and how her quest for vengeance never destroys her ability to love and care for others and recognize other people's genuine kindness and the difficulties other people face in life. I love her shrewdness and her determination to survive too! I'm just! So fond of her!

9. Jaskier from The Witcher (TV). I RARELY TALK ABOUT. MY UNAGING BARD BLORBO. BUT I LOVE HIM. I love the messy relationship Jaskier, Geralt and Yennefer have in the Witcher TV show and I REALLY love the way that Jaskier is portrayed. I don't know anything about the games but! I just! I love! This annoying kind of foppish man because annoying foppish male characters are another beloved character archetype for me, see below.

10. Nie Huaisang from The Untamed/Modao Zushi. Beloved Blorbo. Little crimes man. Unfilial and spoiled. Beloved for being SO jiggly and full of trauma and his tragedy is writ large to me because it! powers! the plot! without his tragedy there is no plot! he burns down his social circle because he loves his brother! There's just so much in here that's like, oh god. I love that he's an annoying foppish dandy and that he loves his pets and creature comforts and that he doesn't enjoy working hard and has so many problems. This too is life. I love this little guy I want to rotate him for a good long time.

#asks and answers #favorite characters #not a comprehensive list obviously #I love a lot of characters #and a lot of canons where like the characters may not be Character of All Time or however #but the love I have for that canon itself is very real #Hope this was fun to read!