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bittersweetresilience · 9 months

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Adrien Agreste and Borderline Personality Disorder

DISCLAIMER: I've been a bit low on spoons this week, so I haven't gathered as much evidence as I probably could have. Also, I am but a humble student in clinical psychology. This is mainly a thought compilation for @moonieratty!

To introduce the topic, without going into it too much, personality is described by features and behavioral patterns, or traits, consistent across situations and across time. Personality disorders are therefore enduring patterns of highly maladaptive traits evaluated in personal and sociocultural context (Dozois, 2019, p. 290).

Like other disorders, personality disorders have diagnostic criteria. The DSM is used primarily for diagnosis in the US and Canada while the ICD is used more widely in Europe and other places. I'm more familiar with the DSM, but I've included a brief section on the ICD to be comprehensive. It ended up a bit longer than anticipated, so let's go below the cut. Warning for discussions of abuse, self harm, and suicide, and a brief mention of substance use.

Overview of Borderline Personality Disorder

BPD is prevalent in a small percentage of the population, about 1-2% by varying estimates, and is characterized by instability across domains of emotions, identity, interpersonal relationships, and behavior. Its onset is usually in late adolescence or early adulthood and symptoms may diminish with age, after one's thirties or forties, especially with therapeutic intervention. Along with ASPD, it has been the focus of a lot of clinical research; it is unfortunately associated with high rates of non-suicidal self-injury and suicide (APA, 2022, pp. 754–755; Dozois, 2019, pp. 308–309).

Etiological factors for BPD include both biological and environmental disturbances. Of note to our discussion is the heightened risk for BPD in cases of child abuse or neglect, as well as growing up with another family member with a serious mental health condition (NHS, 2022). It's been well established that Gabriel is emotionally neglectful if not outright abusive toward Adrien in multiple ways, so this is a clear risk factor. In addition, although I won't argue definitively for Gabriel having a psychological condition, he did keep Emilie's body in the basement, so there is clearly some kind of disturbance going on.

From a cognitive-behavioral perspective, Linehan argues that BPD stems from families who consistently invalidate childhood emotional experiences and "oversimplify the ease with which life's problems can be solved," which may cause children to learn to seek attention and communicate with others through emotional outbursts (Dozois, 2019, p. 297). This rings true for Adrien and Gabriel as well.

I have to apologize for my son, Ladybug, he's like his mother. Way too overly dramatic. (Jackady)

It doesn't seem like this is the first time Gabriel has thought this, and labeling an emotional reaction as being overly dramatic is very much invalidation of it. As for emotional outbursts, Adrien has had quite a few, mostly as Chat Noir. More on this later.

To round out this first section, attachment theory proposes a connection between poor parent-child attachments and BPD relationship difficulties. Specifically, maladaptive behavior in relationships may stem from childhood development of an anxious-ambivalent attachment style, where intense fears of abandonment interfere with a strong desire for intimacy (Dozois, 2019, p. 310). You can clearly see this in Chat Noir's relationship with Ladybug, and I'm sure other people have discussed Adrien's attachment style more in depth, but suffice to say I think this is an apt description.

Argument from DSM-5-TR

In the DSM, personality disorders are primarily diagnosed on a categorical model. There are a few general criteria which I won't be going into, but I will highlight that personality disorders are stable and pervasive, and would be diagnosed only if they were leading to significant distress or dysfunction. Adrien's mental state is not great, so the latter shouldn't be a problem, but this show does not always pay attention to consistency, so I'm going to be speculating some. Everything in this section is cited to the relevant DSM entry unless otherwise stated.

The DSM characterizes BPD with instability in relationships, self image, and affects, as well as marked impulsivity. It has no exclusion criteria, so BPD can be and frequently is comorbid with other disorders like mood disorders, PTSD, and ADHD. Of the below criteria, five need to be met in order for a diagnosis to be made.

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Hey, where're you going? . . . So you're allowed to know her true identity, but I'm not? (Syren)

You're not really replacing me with a turtle, are you? (Anansi)

A lot of people have delved into Adrien's abandonment issues, which feature most prominently in his relationship with Ladybug. His fears of being replaced result in him seeking reassurance from Ladybug, and he can lash out if he does not receive the response he hopes for. Ladybug is his world, and he wants to be hers, so anything infringing on that feels to him like a threat of being abandoned, and he does not like it very much.

Impulsive behaviors like giving up his ring can be interpreted under this lens: he can avoid abandonment by doing the abandoning first. Then it will be him leaving, and not the other way around.

I also interpret Adrien's nightmare (Le Marchand de Sable) as being a fear of being alone as much as it is a fear of being trapped.

Unstable and intense interpersonal relationships alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

We'll be united, more powerful and free. We'll defeat Hawk Moth, then we can both run away to an island! Far away from everything. We will live off nothing but fruits, and we will have a little pet hamster and we will name it— (Le Patineur)

I just can't do this anymore. I give up… on everything. Even you . . . If I become Chat Noir again, Ladybug will just end up rejecting me, over and over. (Kuro Neko)

Even though Adrien mostly keeps his head on straight regarding what he's owed and not owed by other people, his relationship with Ladybug is full of highs and lows. He thinks Ladybug is the most amazing girl, but this can recoil quickly into feeling as though Ladybug doesn't care about him enough or isn't meeting his needs.

Furthermore, he developed this idealization of Ladybug as a potential lover or caregiver at one of their first meetings (Cœur de Pierre), and continually sought to spend time together and share the intimate details of their secret identities early on. These are all common to individuals with BPD, as is the switch from idealization to feeling as if the other person "does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not 'there' enough." Ladybug is the only person Adrien consistently projects this instability and intensity on, which might be something interesting to explore.

Identity disturbance: unstable self image or sense of self

When I was a kid, I always wanted to be what my parents wanted me to be! (Exauceur)

But, does that mean Chat Noir is who I really am? Deep down inside? (Kuro Neko)

With all the secret identities, it isn't surprising that Adrien fits this criterion, but canon even explicitly draws a link between Adrien's unstable sense of self and his childhood experiences. He doesn't know who he is, and he distracts from this by being Chat Noir, only to struggle even more when he feels useless and underlooked as his hero self. His behavior shifts dramatically between trying to prove himself with grand gestures and refusing to participate or lashing out. There is definitely something to discuss on this front.

Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas

Giving you some extra time . . . I trust you to bring me back, m'lady. (Gamer 2.0)

There are only two liars left in Paris and one of them knows the ultimate way to catch her attention . . . Crazy about you, m'lady. (Mensonge)

This is walking a thin line between impulsivity and suicidal behavior, which would be excluded from this criterion, but I'll list self sacrifice here because I can see an argument for Chat Noir's impulsive behaviors being out of love or the desire to be useful. There may still be some self injurious intent or euphoria, but Chat Noir does have faith in Ladybug to bring him back eventually. Nevertheless, this is impulsive and unhealthy. Chat Noir jumps too quickly to this option to have thought it through.

I can't think of another area, because Adrien isn't old enough for reckless driving, spending, substance use, or sex. This is also a kids' show. Just presenting these options for fanfiction writers out there.

Recurrent suicidal or self mutilating behavior, gestures, or threats

I... I don't know what to do! (Chat Blanc)

This is all our fault . . . Cataclysm. (Culpabysse)

By itself, what happened in Chat Blanc would not be solid evidence, as that was an unprecedentedly traumatic situation. Combined with Culpabysse, though, there is a strong case to be made for at least passive suicidality for this to be able to come up as an option.

You could also interpret the self sacrifice in this category. Suicidal behavior in individuals with BPD is often preempted by fears of rejection or abandonment, so an interesting analysis could be made on this front.

Affective instability due to marked reactivity of mood

He's still only thinking of himself! I just want this terrible day to be over and done with! I hate Christmas! (Pire Noël)

Sorry! Sorry! I didn't mean to make you so mad. I get it. You're sick of me . . . No one can help me, Kagami. (Glaciator 2)

Adrien's prolonged episodes of anger and despair reflect a high reactivity to emotional stressors, especially interpersonal ones. In general, he just doesn't feel very well unless something is actively bringing him joy. Most of his outbursts are brief, though, and I will discuss them as part of a later criterion.

Chronic feelings of emptiness

I'm not Adrien, so I wouldn't know if this is the case, but I can say he has experienced at least one depressive episode (Kuro Neko) and emptiness would not be unfamiliar. You can look at him and decide.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger

How was your amazing evening with your "friends"? . . . What do you think? (Glaciator)

Why not? No one'll know if I quit. No one'll care! (Syren)

A two-person plan?! There's only one two-person plan, and that's Ladybug and me! (Sentibulleur)

Give me a break, Miss "I can't even come up with a superhero name"! (Hack-San)

Anger in individuals with BPD can manifest as bitterness, sarcasm, or recurrent verbal outbursts, which Chat Noir absolutely exemplifies. These outbursts are often followed by feelings of shame or guilt and contribute to a feeling of being bad. Chat Noir apologizes after being harsh in Glaciator, and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt badly about the other times. Again, these outbursts are often precipitated by interpersonal fears and perceived threats of abandonment. Unlike other symptoms, this specific one tends to be unique to BPD.

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociation

I cannot recall any evidence for this but headcanon away, my friends.

All in all, I think Adrien has a strong case for BPD presentation according to the DSM. Canon is not always consistent, but I think it presents an interesting and mostly coherent narrative for this lens. From this perspective, Adrien's behavior reflects a deep intolerance of being alone and a dependence on other people to define the self.

As a corollary, BPD behavioral patterns are frequently linked to self sabotage and self undermining right when a goal is about to be realized, which could manifest as dropping out of school right before graduating or ending a relationship when it seems to be going well. Food for thought. Individuals with BPD may also feel more secure with transitional objects like pets than with interpersonal relationships, which could reflect in Adrien's relationship with Plagg.

To add some subjective understanding to this clinical mumbo jumbo, I've added a source of genuine BPD experiences below (Mind, 2022).

Argument from ICD-11

With the release of the ICD-11, a dimensional model for diagnosis of personality disorders became the new standard. What this means is that individuals are no longer labeled as having 'histrionic' or 'dependent' or, indeed, 'borderline' personality disorders, but are rather assessed as having any form of personality disorder on a sliding scale of severity and with trait domain specifiers (Swales, 2022). To put it more simply, people are diagnosed only with a general personality disorder or personality difficulty which can be optionally specified as deviating on one of the personality traits in the Big Five model, which is well established in personality psychology.

This move has several benefits. Stigmatization related to particular personality disorders can be reduced, and differential diagnosis and comorbidity between personality disorders becomes irrelevant. However, people retain access to treatment and support. Evidence-based treatments like dialectical behavior therapy are particularly well established and crucial for BPD; for this pragmatic purpose, the ICD contains one additional specifier for borderline pattern personality disorder (Bach et al., 2022; Swales, 2022).

The DSM and ICD are designed to be compatible with each other in many ways, and in this case, the borderline specifier in the ICD is directly lifted from the criterion of the DSM (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5). Based on our previous discussion, Adrien would be equally qualified for a diagnosis in France. I would likely describe his personality disorder with moderate severity, where multiple areas of functioning are affected and self harming behaviors may be present, but not all areas or relationships may be equally impacted and traits are not as rigid and inflexible (WHO, 2023, 6D10.0–6D10.2).

Interestingly, the ICD includes three additional manifestations of borderline pattern which are optional and may vary across time (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5).

A view of the self as inadequate, bad, guilty, disgusting, and contemptible

An experience of the self as profoundly different and isolated from other people; a painful sense of alienation and pervasive loneliness

Proneness to rejection hypersensitivity; problems in establishing and maintaining appropriate levels of trust in relationships; frequent misinterpretation of social signals

I'm fascinated by the number of adjectives in here. I simplified very slightly, as I did with the DSM criteria, but I had to keep all these adjectives. Anyway, I won't elaborate for too many more paragraphs, so let's say sentimonster moment and leave it at that. I will spare you my mirrored Félix essay. For now.

Qualifications and Limitations

First of all, Adrien is a teenager. The distinguishing factor between a personality disorder and regular adolescent difficulties would be longevity and identity concerns beyond his developmental phase (APA, 2022, p. 758). Second of all, Adrien has a uniquely terrible home life and magical problems. Some of his behaviors could be normal considering his experiences and sociocultural context, and this matters when it comes to psychological evaluation. Take everything with a grain of salt!

More generally, the categorical model of the DSM has several issues, not to mention diagnostic issues related to culture, gender, and stigma. Some but not all of these issues are addressed by the dimensional model it includes in a later section, which shares theoretical foundations with the model of personality disorders in the ICD. Even so, issues remain. Diagnosis, access to treatment, and political statements are intrinsically linked in complex ways. I won't get into all of the nuances, but be safe, remember this is a fictional character, and keep an open mind.

REFERENCES:

American Psychiatric Association. (2022). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed., text rev.). https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425787

Bach, B., Kramer, U., Doering, S., di Giacomo, E., Hutsebaut, J., Kaera, A., De Panfilis, C., Schmahl, C., Swales, M., Taubner, S., & Renneberg, B. (2022). The ICD-11 classification of personality disorders: A European perspective on challenges and opportunities. Borderline Personality Disorder and Emotion Dysregulation, 9(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40479-022-00182-0

Dozois, D. J. A. (2019). Abnormal psychology: Perspectives (6th ed.). Pearson.

Mind. (2022, September). What does BPD feel like? https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/experiences-of-bpd/

National Health Service. (2022, November 4). Causes - Borderline personality disorder. https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/causes/

Swales, M. A. (2022). Personality disorder diagnoses in ICD-11: Transforming conceptualisations and practice. Clinical Psychology in Europe, 4(Special Issue). https://doi.org/10.32872/cpe.9635

World Health Organization. (2023). International statistical classification of diseases and related health problems (11th ed.). https://icd.who.int/

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piromina · 4 months

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I dont get Luka haters. Like, the guy almost managed to get one full SEASON with the knowledge of the Love Square without going insane. That's an ACCOMPLISHMENT. That is some TALENTED SKILL there. Like, he was five episodes away from a SEASON. I seriously do not think that anyone in our fandom has done THAT. Me, I was craving a reveal after the FIRST EPISODE. And Luka over here like, 'oh yea my friends are loving each other in circles? and its rly annoying? not my problem, ill just be the Therapist Friend over here for a while, stay out of it' AND LIKE HE WAS GOOD. HE WAS GOOD AND I DO NOT KNOW HOW HE MANAGED TO KEEP HIS COOL WITH THOSE TWO BEING LIKE THAT. Like of course they got to him eventually, and it resulted in him moving to Brazil just to escape them, buuuut... LIKE STOP HATING ON THIS GUY. HE IS PRECIOUS. PRECIOUS I TELL YOU.

#luka couffaine #miraculous ladybug #ml wishmaker #ml migration #miraculous ladybug love square

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adrinoir · 1 year

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Headcanon: Adrien Agreste is Trans? (Part 5)

Part 5 let’s gooooo!

Wow, so, as I’m going through my own trans journey, I was inspired by some to write another part of this headcanon. I was somehow able to connect Adrien’s character to parts of my own journey. It’s pretty cool!

Here are the other parts of this headcanon if you’d like to read those: part 1 | part 2 | part 3 | part 4

Usual disclaimer: this is just for fun! Obviously cis boys can have these same qualities and traits. Don’t take it too seriously. These are all just things I’ve noticed. Also please keep in mind I haven't watched anything beyond Migration as I’m writing this (I’m using the material I have so far).

CW: mentions of transphobia and abuse

The struggle to envision his future

Trans people can struggle to envision their life in the future due to not having older trans people to look up to. Or they feel so depressed from gender dysphoria or judgement for being trans that it makes it hard for them to see what their future will be like.

We see in Wishmaker, Adrien doesn’t have much of an idea as to what he wants for his future. He told Luka and Marinette that his head feels empty. And, additionally, he said to Ladybug he never had any childhood dreams.

When he’s hit by Wishmaker, he turns into who he is now. I mentioned in part 2 of this headcanon that there’s trauma behind that, and Adrien is trying to be this perfect young man for his parents. However, I want to look at it from a different perspective-

Consider, he turns into himself now - not even an older version of himself with no differences whatsoever, meaning he possibly might not see anything beyond the person he is now. Or (TW here) he didn’t see (or could barely see) a future for himself as a kid because he was so depressed and dysphoric. It’s not uncommon for trans kids to feel like they won’t live to transition. Especially with Adrien, if he is trans, I can only imagine how terrifying it would be for him trying to come out to his parents.

Or, if he was at first confused by his dysphoria and trying to figure out his identity as a child, that confusion could’ve clouded his vision for his future. He couldn’t completely understand who he is and why he was feeling the way that he was.

Not fully understanding yourself and who you are - even within your gender identity - can cloud how you see yourself now and in your future.

The “I just want to be a son!” line

The line Adrien said in Risk: “I just want to be a son!” stands out to me a lot.

I know he mainly meant it in a way of saying that he wants to be treated like a regular kid by his own father, not like a model. But, - listen, I’ll take whatever crumbs I can get - there’s a strong emphasis on this line and making sure he specifies “son.”

Having this strong desire to no longer model (which is in fact one of my other signs I listed in part 4 of my headcanon) and saying he wants to be a son just gives me vibes that he’s so dehumanized by his own father. His father barely treats him like he’s his kid and uses him as marketing for his designs. And referring to another part of this headcanon (part 1), him and his father have this unexplainable disconnect, even though Adrien is such a good son. I had mentioned maybe it’s because Adrien is trans and his father barely accepts this.

So, if it is true that this disconnect is caused (or at least partially caused) by Adrien being trans, he wants to make it clear he’s at least his son, not his daughter.

The dehumanization

Speaking of that unexplainable disconnect and dehumanization I had just mentioned, I want to get into more detail about that.

Gabriel continues to care so little about his own son, and at this point in the series, we see he’s barely even treated like a human anymore. Gabriel’s behavior has worsened. Gabriel had the audacity to free Adrien of his modeling career by creating a fake AI version of him.

That is absolutely dehumanizing. Like, is it good that Adrien is no longer a model? Yes. But is it good that there’s a duplicate of him saying things and making expressions that aren’t real? Things he never said and did himself?

It’s incredibly slimy behavior to see your son as a marketing tool and way to reach your own stingy goals. And that begs the question: why does Gabriel see his son as just these things? How could a father treat his son with such little love and apathy?

This reminds me a lot of transphobic people because they don’t think of trans people as real people. They say and treat them as if they aren’t humans. They’re willing to threaten them, spit on them, possibly unalive them, insult the daylights out of them, etc as if they don’t have human emotions and lives. And, these transphobes are typically hateful, evil people, just like Mr. Gabriel Agreste.

One could argue that Gabriel has just gone absolutely insane and he showed some compassion for Adrien in earlier parts of the series. But, I don’t feel this is true. Referring to Wishmaker (again lol), it’s shown his parents have had expectations of him his whole life. Their love for him was conditional starting from his early childhood, and we’re not given reason as to why this is - it’s just been suspected to be abuse.

And, if we knock out my first section about Adrien not realizing his future, maybe he did know since childhood that he’s trans. And perhaps he defied his parents (like he did when he ran away to the school) and started taking steps to transition (as many steps as he could before needing his parents to weigh in and be somewhat accepting). That’s why Gabriel neglects Adrien and dehumanizes him, and him just going crazy showed more of his true colors - colors that have existed within him all along.

The relationship & physical affection discomfort

In Adrien’s first relationship, he was so uncomfortable with Kagami despite how long they were friends prior to. Understandably, this was his first relationship, Kagami made a lot of assumptions about him as a person, and came on really strong. But, despite liking her, he was still so uncomfortable and never really got over that.

You’d think he would’ve been okay with kissing her and more physical touch since he seemingly had a bit of a crush on her for quite some time. But he hardly was. And he showed a bit of disappointment when she made wrong assumptions about who he really is.

If Adrien has gender dysphoria, he’s not going to feel very comfortable with physical affection, especially with someone who has the wrong idea of him as a person; someone who doesn’t know he’s trans (at least not yet). Notice how he also backs away at times when Ladybug actually tries to be physically affectionate with him (particularly the Fake Ladybug in Puppeteer 2).

Adrien only seems okay with physical affection if he initiates it. If someone else tries to initiate that first move when he’s not completely comfortable with them, he gets uncomfortable. It has to be by his terms. This could be him having to gain that bit of trust since he’s used to that dismissive attachment style from his father who neglects him - it reflects itself in romantic relationships. But it could also be bodily gender dysphoria and the fact that no one would know he’s trans (aside from his own family).

#miraculous ladybug #tales of ladybug and cat noir #miraculous #miraculers #adrien agreste #chat noir #ml season 4 #wishmaker #ml wishmaker #ml headcanons #ml analysis #trans pride

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iwasbored777 · 1 year

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Am I the only one who thinks they could've still had Luka tell Marinette from time to time "Adrien loves you and you are a great person" without him knowing they are LB and CN??? Like???? They really did it to have him spill some advices he already used to spill before he knew. Like if it was "you will get those kwamis back, Marinette, don't listen to Su-Han you're amazing he's shit" or "don't listen to what people say Adrien you are loved and you're not a hoe" but they have him say they are meant to be as if 80% of characters don't already know this without the reveal. Ephemeral would've been 100% the same if he didn't know. Literally nothing about the episode would've been different.

#They are like oh look Adrien was so depressed he let the akuma his him and look what this lead to #Great but what did it lead to Luka knowing and that lead to nothing???#This side plot sucks #miraculous ladybug #luka couffaine #ml wishmaker #ml ephemeral

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globodoodles · 1 year

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-He knows-

i made this the last year for whismaker. Idk i think is kinda cute.

#viperon #luka couffaine #ml #ml wishmaker #ml adrinette #ml ladynoir #he knows

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bugoutreviewgirlie · 3 months

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And when I say the love square reveal isn't even close to my number one priority, what then. I've met so many people whose main focus was the identity reveal and when it didn't happen within the first two seasons, they dropped the show. Honestly, that's perfectly valid, but to me, Luka finding out LadyNoir's identities hit 200% harder than any fakeout reveal we got 🙉 it's about the journey, not the destination

#miraculous ladybug #ml wishmaker #love square

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chronicallylatetotheparty · 2 years

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Ch. 2: Friend of a Friend.

An unfortunate revelation.

-----

Luka's eyes widen as his gaze went from the akuma alert in his hand to the smiling akuma victim gliding toward him on a giant pair of wings. Green cat eyes staring down at him as he scrambled back from their landing.

"Am I really so intimidating?" The supervillain grinned, rather pleased with himself. Folding his wings into a cape behind him.

"...Adrien?"

-----

(Well, that's weird. @authorgirl1111 I swear I don't usually upload this frequently.)

#adrien agreste #luka couffaine #akumatized chat noir #akumatized adrien #ml angst #ml ephemeral #ml wishmaker #ml au #ml fanfiction #ml fanfic

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byebyelittlebutterfly · 1 year

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:O!!! is luka gonna find out marinette is ladybug??? i had a suspicion he might in crocoduel cuz he was still trying to figure out her secret, but if he's viperion and uses second chance after wishmaker changes ladybug, he might know even though she doesnt remember???? idk just writing out my thoughts

#miraculous ladybug #ml wishmaker #ml 4.14 #luka couffaine #viperion #my miraculous liveblog

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character-fan19 · 1 year

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MLB Season 4 Character Analysis: "Wishmaker"

Introduction

Hey guys, I'm back again with character analysis of our biggest episode yet. If you missed my previous post on the episode "Rocketear", you can find it here. If you're new to these kind of posts, then here I look at every one of our favourite MLB characters with relevant characterization in every individual episode of season 4 and now we're onto "Wishmaker".

This episode probably would have been very shocking if it weren't for the fact that it was apparently spoiled in the trailer for the episode. For the first time, we had someone knowing both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities post-Master Fu's memory wipe. In this episode we also have both Marinette and Adrien having to decide their future with their problems being polar opposites just like everything else with them is. So let's get started with this analysis.

Character POVs

Luka

"We're all OK, thanks to Ladybug and Cat Noir."

First off, let's get the mind-blowing part of this episode out of the way. Luka knows both Ladybug and Cat Noir's secret identities now and neither Ladybug nor Cat Noir are aware of this.

We see in that Marinette and Luka are now officially just buddies from the episode "Crocoduel". It's also revealed to us that Luka wants to be a stringed-instrument maker so that other people can experience music, not a musician like his father as being a musician is just his nature. When both he and Marinette see that Adrien is depressed, he encourages Marinette to talk to him showing us that he is an Adrienette shipper as well just like Kagami.

The real big moment of the episode comes of course when he discovers both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities and you can tell from his face that he was shocked. So many things fell into place for him and he now understood why Marinette had to break up with him and his arc of knowing when to tell the truth from the episode "Truth" is complete after he tells Ladybug that he didn't figure out either hers or Cat Noir's identities, possibly because he now knows the amount of stress Marinette must be going through and didn't want to add to that stress by having to factor in Luka knowing both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities.

2. Adrien/Cat Noir

"My father arranges it all for me. But if I think about what I really actually wanna do.... NOTHING, my mind is empty!"

Moving onto Adrien, who doesn't know what he really wants to do in life and some people take that along with the fact that his childhood dream was to be what his parents wanted him to be, as him being a sentimonster, but to me that's not necessarily true as it could also mean that Adrien's parents are so controlling that they never even let him have his own childhood dream.

When he was first presented with the idea of having a future career, he realized that he didn't know what he wanted to be and even after going through all the stalls at the career fair, he couldn't figure out what he wanted and as Cat Noir he believed that since he had no childhood dreams he would be immune to Wishmaker's attacks but obviously he was wrong since his childhood dream ended up being whatever his parents wanted him to be.

By the end of the episode though, he realized that even though he doesn't know his childhood dream, he can still focus on the future and find his inner music just like Luka said.

Besides that, this episode also had a small but significant moment with Adrien believing that since Ladybug keeps getting progressively more and more Miraculous holders, she probably won't need him anymore, which is completely untrue as we've seen many times before how much Cat Noir means to Ladybug like in "Lies" and "Guiltrip".

3. Marinette/Ladybug

"I always feel like I want to try new things but the things I want to do and the things I forget to do and the things I just have to do, it's a lot."

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have Marinette, who unlike Adrien, isn't having problems knowing what to do in the future because she has nothing she wants to do in the future, it's because she wants to everything and it's a difficult decision between careers for her, she has fashion designer, Ladybug, Guardian, etc.

We see that she has become comfortable with Luka now that they've both talked at the end of "Crocoduel". Luka helps her with deciding her career but telling her about her inner music and by the end of the episode Marinette decides that she will do everything, becoming the busiest person on the planet when she grows up.

4. Alec

"When I was a kid, I used to have long hair, but everyone made fun of me. That's why I shaved it all off. I've been making the wrong choices my whole life. My TV show is nothing personal. I make fun of people the way the make fun of me when I was a kid. I should've been the person I always wanted to be, trying to change the world instead of mocking it! I wasted my life!"

Unexpectedly and out-of-the-blue, we also have some characterization from Alec of all people, the TV show host who mocks everyone all the time. We never asked for an explanation for this but now that we have it, it's interesting to think about.

It was revealed when he had a wig put on that the reason he always made fun of everyone and the reason he was bald was because he used to have an afro when he was a kid which everyone made fun of so in order to make everyone stop, he shaved his head and became bald and out of bitterness towards the people who made fun of him as a kid he created his own TV show in order to humiliate others in front of a large audience which makes a lot of sense and when he had the wig put on he finally realized that he has been make the wrong choices his whole life.

By the end of the episode though, he decided to right his wrongs by creating a TV show where he helps other people live their childhood dreams much like his akumatized form but in a more morally correct way.

Conclusion

Well, that's the end of that character analysis so hope you've enjoyed reading. This episode did a good job in showing us that it's OK if we're not sure what we want to do and we can always change our ways when we realize what we're doing is not what we really want. As always, let me know your thoughts on this analysis and let me know if I missed anything for any of the characters this episode. With that being said, see y'all next time!

#ml character analysis #mlb characterization #ml season 4 #ml wishmaker #luka couffaine #marinette sugar #marinette dupain cheng #adrien sugar #adrien agreste #alec cataldi

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rainbow-arrow · 1 year

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"So you don't know me completely either, and yet we're still close friends, right?"

"I don't know what I'd do without you."

the most criminally underrated friendship in this entire show

#let's go #listen marinette gets to be kagami's friend on screen why is this held off until the moment he's leaving #luka couffaine #adrien agreste #lukadrien #mlb migration #ml #mlb #miraculous ladybug #shows up a month late to Rant about This episode #did i like this episode? more than most of the s5 ones but #eh #this show ended at wishmaker you can't change my mind on that

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lawfullyneutralbee · 9 months

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Miraculous Awakening Spoilers!

Yuh anyways

The biggest change they did in this movie is honestly giving Gabriel Agreste compassion. BC LITERALLY he gave up the fight the minute he realized he was fighting his son.

Meanwhile in show literally every time he’s realized it’s Adrien:

And they literally just gave him a human reaction, like a good father who actually likes his child reaction. I’m still not over what happened in Wishmaker bc what was

“MY SONN????”

#miraculous ladybug #chat noir #ml spoilers #miraculous awakening #miraculous awakening spoilers #wishmaker #adrien agreste #gabriel agreste

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crafter273 · 20 days

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Knitting fairy dress

I finally completed my first official knitting project(first to start last to complete)!!!

Story:

This project was inspired by the episode Wishmaker, where Marinette wears a knitting fairy dress

And i , being on a randomly generated creative whim, decided to make this dress despite not knowing how to knit

Anyway, 10 months later i learnt the basics of knit, purl, and vaguely about increasing stitches and i start casting on

Wip pics here:

Image id= pictures of a pink colored sweater body with reddish pink ribbing , along with 4 pictures of light pink colored sleeves, all in various stages of completion

image id= a light pink colored sweater with dark reddish pink ribbing at bottom, bell sleeves and a thin reddish collar

Took 2 years to complete, but really only 3 months of persistent knitting and some on off knitting during the years

Anywaay, now i get to move on to other smaller projects!!

#knitting #crochet #yarn crafts #miraculous tales of ladybug and cat noir #miraculous ladybug #miraculous fanart #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #miraculous lb #chat noir #marinette dupain cheng #ladybug #ml ladybug #miraculous #knitting fairy #fiber crafts #wishmaker #my projects

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adrinoir · 1 year

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Andre’s Ice Cream - is it actually magical?

I wanna go a bit more in depth about Andre the ice cream man, because I think he’s kind of an interesting character (and also I love ice cream and romance too lol).

I first questioned in this post if his ice cream is actually magical like he claims. But, let’s rewind a bit.

I think there’s some retcon happening. Think back to how in the first Glaciator episode, in the end, despite Adrien not being masked, Andre still gave him a Ladybug themed ice cream. The red, the blue, the nuts on top (indicating spots, in this case). He’s well aware of Adrien being in love with Ladybug.

Also think back to Wishmaker when Marinette received Cat Noir themed ice cream - green, nuts on top (different than her Adrien themed ice cream in the past and colors that don’t match Luka who approached her after). Andre knew then, too. So with that being said, he shouldn’t have been surprised by Marinette and Cat Noir being together. He should’ve been able to sense they like each other.

“Strawberry and cherry for the indecisive lady! Pistachio and pecan for the clear-sighted young man!”

How would he have known in the past that Marinette would realize she has feelings for Cat Noir and that Adrien likes Ladybug? Marichat has been a duo he’s seen on three different occasions but turns into Glaciator because he doesn’t think they’re a match and that his ice cream magic isn’t working. And, Ladrien has had so few interactions. Adrien only blushes a little those times and then, additionally, just secretly keeps photo albums of her on his phone and computer.

His colors are also different with Lukanette and Adrigami in the season 3 finale. When he gives each sundae to Marinette and Adrien they don’t match Luka and Kagami’s color schemes. So he knows neither of them are matches.

We can assume maybe his magic doesn’t work on the heroes because of the magic in their disguises. If you watch Timetagger, their ice cream doesn’t even have colors.

However, how would he know Cat Noir’s love is Ladybug? That probably sounds stupid, but think about how in the first Glaciator episode, Marinette didn’t even know Cat Noir’s love for her was serious. He’s flirty but that doesn’t necessarily mean he has serious feelings.

So if his magic doesn’t work with them, that means he’s just assuming Ladynoir is a match based on what he sees (ie them being named Couple of the Year). But, again, in Elation and Glaciator 2, he should’ve at least realized Marinette has feelings for Cat Noir because she’s out of suit. There wouldn’t be any magic working against her emotions.

Is she only allowed to love one person, Andre? Do you think she doesn’t love Cat Noir, that it’s just “silly” as you say? Something isn’t adding up.

So, I guess we as the audience have to decide. It’s either the magic works against Ladybug and Cat Noir’s disguises. Or, overall, he’s just going off of the bits of interactions that he sees and there’s no actual magic in his ice cream, he’s just marketing it that way. And/or he has preferences on who to ship with who. It’s too hard to tell.

All the magic aside, I really do love Andre’s backstory. I’ve said that in many posts of mine lol. I can relate to working an awful 9-5 office job and wanting to make a career out of something you’re passionate about.

You can’t go wrong with ice cream and matchmaking. Going on ice cream dates is something that appeals to a lot of couples and Andre being able to determine matches makes them even happier. It’s a good moneymaker that makes him different than other businesses in Paris.

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