#ml sexism

[jennycinco-5]

Miraculous Writer : Who cares about “Bad Redemption “ and Inconsistency as long as Fans will pay attention on “Love Square” riiiiiight~

I know that lot of you will said “ You just too salty ! “ “ Oh ! This just Kids show ! “ “Ooooh~ This cartoon is about silly-teenage romance” “This cartoon is about  L O V E “ etc etc etc 

WHO CARES ! I already abandon the Canon!ML before the leaks comes out  everywhere

After I check all the leaks I would like to said “ WHAT THE FUCK “ and “ I’m glad finally I no longer care about this show ! “. Because I can see Season 5 is a HUGE MESS and beyond the redemption ! 

As much as I hate how BLEACH Ended due to how rushed the ending and the pairing, At least its still manage to be better and satisfying ! Despite no fans like Newest Gundam series (The Witch from Mercury) and claim to be a “full of yuri or silly school drama series in mecha”, G-WITCH still manage to be a good Gundam series and restrain its dark and heavy element . This why Suletta still acceptable as MC by many Gundam fans beside being adorable clumsy and ditzy girl instead of edgy girl

Miraculous ? Its a HUGE MESS and will never satisfying ! 

Why ?

It’s all about inconsistency and dumb ways to “redeem the character”. ML clearly has no idea what kind a theme about the show ! It’s about Shojo-esque cartoon ? No ! It’s about superhero ? No ! It’s about LOVEEEEE~ and Hardship of being teenager ? Turning Red handle it BETTER than this shit ! It’s about girls power ? The MC constantly being punch sack for writer with their un-funny comedy moment, Most of Male antagonist is paint as “Misunderstood person” and constantly give a “redemption” while female antagonist are paint as “Pure evil Bitch” who deserve no redemption.

I like to said THREE MALAYSIAN SUPERHERO CARTOON is better handle on female character in both Protagonist and Antagonist side while the show is still aimed for young boys rather than a so-called “girls power” cartoon like Miraculous

Of course ML writer cares nothing about this as long as Fans pay attention on Love-scareSquare Riiiiiggght~

Aside from inconsistency, the WORST part about ML is about poorly handle a character especially about Redemption. Its seems that from That Guy logic, Redemption means that you will full blown into a new leaf as a “super duper nice character” without any progression as long as they have “tragic backstory” so they can pity on them.

In reality, redemption of the character is need a progression and not all of them will be become a new leaf as a “super duper nice character” in instant way. They could become a anti-hero at their best or still restrain their arrogant  side and still have problem or struggle during their redemption quest such as many character would not forgive them or always remember their worst attitude before redemption happens 

Aside Zuko, there are lot of character have good redemption such as Ken Ichijouji, Peridot, Karone/Astronema and  Ashi. Special mention Anime (especially shoujo anime) have lot of character who good on handling on the antagonist or an arrogant character by give them a good depth or redemption than Miraculous

Miraculous see “redemption” and “character depth” nothing more than for “Please feel pity on them ! “ instead of to humanized the character itself especially in  Antagonist side. This is ANOTHER biggest problem in Miraculous :

Gabriel “redemption equal to death”  and Felix “Redemption for luv” are MEH and very insulting for other main antagonist who undergoes real redemption

I know that lots of pro will said “Its GLOOB Fault because they didn’t want Brazilian kids reminder about their parents in jail so they push poor astruc to change the ending~” to defend this shit. Being kIds show doesn’t mean who have an excuse about why your show is bad for handling the Big Bad of the show

So according to Leaks, Gabriel while dying is begs to Marinette to keep his secret from Adrien and is remembered as a hero and “good father” for Adrien despite of his emotional abuse and the isolation on him for 14 years and the terror that his spread on Paris for a shake of “My Wife and luvely Son UwU” . Meaning that he is free from any serious consequence of his action despite of his death.

Then we have Felix who according to Leaks suddenly simping on Kagami just because she is a Senti “just like him” and Kagami just accept him because he looks like her ex despite what already he done before to Marinette and Parisian in many previous episodes. No consequence or guilt of his previous action because Kagami defense him and the narrative paint him as “misunderstood baby~”.

That’s not a redemption ! That’s a Karma Houdini ! Neither Gabriel or Felix show a real remorse of their malice action and then Writer suddenly give them a “Redemption” because they want make Lila as big-bad since this is a “Girls Power” show which mean they need a female evil big-bad

If you want a give a Big-Bad a redemption either is resulting their death or being humiliated during their redemption quest to show how redemption is not an easy process and sometime they have struggle to do it.

You want to know where is a kids who is good on handling Big Bad Redemption 

Here Ken Ichijouji a.k.a Digimon Kaiser  a.k.a Ex-Big Bad of half season of Digimon Adventure 2

Initially a lonely prodigy boy who constantly being ignore by his parents due to their favoritism over his older brother. As Digimon Kaiser, he enslaved and corrupt many digimon, all because of his arrogance. After realizing that his bad deed is not a toys since he know Digimon are not mere a data but a living creature with emotion thanks to Wormmon sacrifice, he return back as Ken with full of guilt of his action as Digimon Kaiser. 

Despite he already forgiven by Daisuke and the other chosen children and is allow to improved himself as better person, some of Digimon still unable to accept his apology. See the gif above, he still unable to move on from the guilt even imagine himself being tortured to death by the other digimon. And this is comes from a 10-11 years old antagonist who used to have inferiority-complex with his older brother! Not a full grown man antagonist. And Digimon is a freaking kids show who not shy to show a children have a immense guilt about their action 

And Here we have Impmon/Beelzemon from Digimon Tamers 

A trouble maker digimon who always picking on human due to “not being respected by them” after see the toddler constantly argue to be his partner. He Become Beelzemon after being persuade by Caturamon and resulting on him become a power-hungry antagonist who would kill any digimon to strengthen his power

After killing Leomon in front of his poor partner (Juri Katou) and the other Tamers, he surprised and shaken to see instead of hate on him, Juri pitying on him and begged Dukemon to stop killing him due to feel guilt and didn’t want to see her allies losing someone anymore. Resutling on him feel guilt and ashamed. Despite his attempt to save Juri from D-REAPER, he always being brutally beaten by the villains. But is still his redemption being memorable by majority of fans

Digimon is a kids show just like Miraculous. But they are not shy to show any heavy or dark content to make the show become complex and those element actually give some character a meaning development

Here Miraculous give a heavy or dark content nothing more than fanservice and never meaningful for the show

Gabriel is NOT a “sympathetic gray antagonist” 

The show desperately try hard to make Gabriel as “Sympathetic” despite of what already he done toward his own Son and Parisian just because he being Hawkmoth “for sake of his family UwU~”

Sure there is nothing wrong to Humanized a villain . At least show it that the depth are genuine not a manipulation. Here they didn’t show how Gabriel truly bad about his action or his genuine attempted to be closer with Adrien because he truly love him not because of try to gain a control over his son. Most of Gabriel “kindness” toward Adrien are nothing but a manipulation

Disney has PLENTY a MC parents who portray as misunderstood. But I think Ming Lee from Turning Red to be mention of this section

Ming Lee is a realistically portray of “Tiger Parents” and lot of better than Tomoe Tsurugi who nothing more than a caricature of “Tiger Parents”. She is not a villain or Abusive mother of course, but her conflict with Mei is lot of interesting compare to Gabriel-Adrien. Although we can see her reason of her controlling behavior because of her mother, but the narrative didn’t desperate made fans to “feel sorry” about her like how ML do with Gabemoth and she still receive of consequence to pay a compensation of what already she done at SkyDome as Pandakaiju

Here in Miraculous, Gabriel didn’t receive of any serious consequences of his action as a villain or a abusive father because they didn’t want to “break Adrien little heart” and is hailed as hero and receive a statue

 Male jerks or antagonist are more redeemable than Female 

Aside from the Gabriel and Felix, a character like Alec, Rolland Dupain , the Ice Cream man, Mayor Bourgeois, even Jagged  Stone as “misunderstood character” who deserve to be “redeem” despite the horrid things they done to them such as mocking a interviewee in front of TV Show, a racist grandfather, creepy shipper who like to meddling teenagers love-live, a major enabler of spoiled brat and abandon his children for 16 years

Meanwhile 

A two spoiled brat teenager are are painted as “more monstrous than a grown-up man who is a abusive father and terrorist”, and two jerk mothers like Tomoe and Audrey as heartless bitch who don’t deserve to be humanized

Are you sure this show can be redeem ?

#ml salt #ml critical #ml writer salt #FUCK THIS SHOW #THIS IS A MESS #ml sexism #bad writing

[howhow326]

So, when Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 ends, can we all get together and do what the VLD fandom did to their show?

Like, just cancel it on Twitter or something???

#miraculous ladybug salt #ml writers salt #thomas astruc salt #we have more than enough examples #of this show's sexism #racism #and #abuse apologism #we can cancel it #ml racism #miraculous ladybug racism #ml sexism #ml misogyny #ml victim blaming #ml abuse apologism #ml leak #ml leaks #ml show bible leaks #ml salt

[teawinx]

The difference between Amphibia/TOH and Miraculous in terms of girl power is that the first just treats girls like any other gender while MLB tries to make girls better than other genders and still ends up making the show revolve around boys in specific.. somehow

Yeah ML very much outdated progressiveness

Sure there's the surface level "feminism" by having the girl save the day every time, but it's surrounded by boys being the focus and getting special treatment.

Like you can't claim to be a girl power show while also having all the prominent girls snarl at each other over a boy. Or redeem men who are racist, bigoted and straight up abandoned their families, while claiming two teenage girls are irredeemable. Or have all the prominent female characters (except Alya) be motivated by male attention.

Look at any interaction Marinette has with another girl, it's almost always about Adrien. Either doing something for him, to get his attention, or just talking about how amazing he is. When's the last time we saw Marinette and Alya having a girl's day out, or cramming for a test together, or baking together. Nope, all their quality time spend together must be focused on Adrien. Gang Of Secrets, I salute you.

#ml salt #ml sexism

[miraculermarinette]

I found it really weird that the writers made Audrey a complete irredeemable Karen who left and neglected her two kids but make Jagged (a deadbeat dad who left his kids to be famous) and Rolland (the guy who left his son for 20 years because of some stupid rice bread.....dude just grow up) redeemable and forgiven by their family members

This isn't a defence on Audrey,I just found this double standard um......interesting I guess

Ikr! This is literally a pattern in this show. The writer's internalized misogyny really shows in their double standards in treating male and female characters.

Female characters are always demonized and shown as irredeemable while male characters , no matter how bad they are, always get a happy ending. I just hope that Gabriel doesn't get a redemption just for being a man.

(I am sorry for the late answer. I am at my grandparent's house for my summer vacations and will stay there for the rest of the month so I won't be able to answer asks that quickly).

#sophieabigail2021 #thanks for the ask #ml sexism #audrey bourgeois #gabriel agreste #ml writer salt #ml double standards

[blueberry-macaron]

I do tend to believe that's there's just...a lot we're not seeing that is more "yikes". What we do see is relatively low-key but then I'm reminded of the animator they had on staff that would do drawings of Marinette undressed, or even the comic series where somehow Marinette ends up in a dumpster in New York naked. That's *without* mentioning all of the story issues and character choices. This could be the most cursed series since Glee lol.

I totally get that! Astruc gives me a very werid vibe as well. Like how he refuses to even think about people's complaints how that comic panel with the guy named "ghetto blaster" might have been racist, or how he sees no problem with sexualising Marinette (I remember a tweet of him where he showed a little drawing of Marinette in a bikini that he apparently keeps in his wallet, which... big yikes). I don't understand what is going on inside his head and just to make clear, I do not respect this man.

What I meant with my comment on that one post (I assume your ask refers to that) was that the thing about the girls in the show being based on his exes is a rumor and I just don't think it's a good idea to treat those as facts. There's enough wrong with Astruc, we don't need to make stuff up to call him out for, u know? I think making up rumors like that would lead to Astruc (and probably also his fans) taking all those critizisms even less serious, in a way of "those damn haters pulled those accusation right out of their ass, why would I listen to any of their other complaints". I just think it gets nobody anywhere🤷🏻‍♀️

But yeah, whatever his reasons might be, we can still agree that the show isn't feminist at all when the girl characters are treated worse compared to guy characters. The misogyny is reflected in the show's writing. Marinette being the number one punching bad and the reason that everything goes wrong all the time while Adrien is a sunshine boy who can never do wrong is misogynistic. Kagami being mean to Mari while Luka is chill with Adrien is misogynistic. Chloe being portrayed as an irredeemable bitch while Gabriel, a fucking terrorist, will probably get away with everything and will probably be redeemed is misogyny. Regardless if any exes of Astruc have to do with it, it sucks and the show should be called out for it.

#ask #little-miss-understood #ml salt #ml writers salt #astruc salt #ml sexism #the show is a disaster #and the writing is indeed very cursed😂 #little off topic but I read the bible when it got leaked and yet I was not prepared for those leaks at all

[theerurishipper]

Personally I think there isn’t enough meta about Adricat being a girl coded character and you should make one too

Okay, so when I say "female coded," I mean that Adrien's character fulfils the role that female characters usually have done in media. He's the love interest, he's the emotional support. He's sensitive and he's emotional. He's the heart of the team. Marinette on the other hand is a "male coded" character. She's a leader, she comes up with strategies and plans, and she is the brains of the operation. I used to think that was really cool, the way they subverted gender roles and allowed the characters to shine as characters instead of putting them in a box. Marinette was a strong and determined person, but she also had moments of weakness and vulnerability. Adrien seemed like the usual trope of the damsel in distress, but he was also literally Chat Noir, who often escaped his own situation and whose arc was about him breaking of his father himself.

But then they leaned too far into it, and it just became a gender swapped version of the same tired tropes that we've all seen. Marinette became The Leader™ who can do no wrong and doesn't need to do that emotional support shit for her partner when he needs it. Adrien lost any and all agency in his own story, and effectively just became the damsel in distress who had to sit there and look pretty as he waited for Marinette the knight to come and save him. I mean, you can't get more on the nose than this.

(And yeah, this is supposed to be the class' fanfiction and not representative of what the show was building up to, but this is literally what ended up happening.)

His choices became more and more irrelevant, and his feelings became more and more unimportant, until the entire Ladynoir dynamic became Marinette being The Leader™ who doesn't need to tell Chat Noir anything and doesn't owe him anything, and Chat Noir became the emotional support who is always attentive and considerate of Ladybug's needs to the point of invalidating his own. His feelings of sadness at being left out of the loop and being pushed away by Ladybug ultimately did not matter.

And then Season 5 spent its time setting up a rivalry between Marinette and Gabriel over what's best for Adrien. The fight wasn't Ladybug and Chat Noir against Monarch, but Marinette vs. Gabriel, and whoever won got to take Adrien home as a prize. Adrien's agency was diminished throughout Season 5 and annihilated entirely in the Season 5 finale, where he spends the confrontation with his father locked away in a white room while Marinette has to take the fight to Gabriel and confront him on Adrien's behalf. And he is sound asleep far away from the conflict while Marinette and Gabriel fight over what's best for Adrien instead of him, you know, deciding that himself.

I mean, the finale could not have been clearer about it.

At least he's there in the dream lmao

And the end of Recreation reveals that Marinette is lying to Adrien about his father so as to protect him. Because apparently Adrien won't be able to control his emotions and needs someone else to make his decisions for him. Because clearly, he would be too emotional and wouldn't be able to make his own informed choices. And it's quite common for women to be told that they are too emotional and so the big strong man should make the decisions for them. So the female coded character is treated like his emotions are a weakness and a burden and like he requires other people to make his choices for him.

And so, Marinette the knight defeats the evil Gabriel, saves the helpless Adrien from his evil father, and they kiss in the sunset, and all is well. Except Adrien isn't being allowed to make informed choices about his own life and everyone around him is denying his autonomy, but he only exists to be the trophy for whoever won in the Marinette-Gabriel rivalry (which Marinette only won because Gabriel forfeited anyway), so he doesn't get to make choices and have any of those inconvenient emotions like anger or sadness, and all really is well.

Thomas Astruc even mentioned on Twitter that Chat Blanc was the reason why Adrien could not participate in the finale. And the implication is that he couldn't be there because he would be too emotional and would destroy the world. So Marinette had to do it for him, and Adrien had to be removed from his own story and put away in London with nightmares so that he wouldn't get in the way with his emotions. So yeah. The female coded character was reduced into being a damsel in distress and was told his emotions rendered him incapable of making his own choices because he wouldn't be able to control them.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Here are some other posts that discuss this.

Thank you for your ask!

#MLB #ML Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #Meta #My meta #Asks #Marinette Salt #Not really but just in case #Sexism in ML

[familyagrestefanblog]

Clarification I definitely should have done ever since season 4 and the Ladynoir conflict started escalating, but hey, let's just get it out:

There are reasons why I'm harping down so badly on Miraculous' Girlboss feminism and defend Adrien as much as I do.

To get the feminist (in-universe) explaination out of the way first:

I would be lying if I said that I like the direction the show has taken Marinette's character and the story in general. But regarding her specifically I simply have to say that most of my problems with her are how she is written as Ladybug, Guardian, and especially leader & partner. Not in her civilian self. Hence why you won't find that alot on my blog, only when it contributes to the overarching double standards problem from s4 I take issue with.

I simply cant deny it, Ladybug is a kind of leader I just came to not be able to respect alot anymore in how she operates most things bc she doesn't really ever look passed how things look & stand for herself, and what SHE needs & wants. Marinette is a very low empathy person in the sense that she struggles putting herself in other people's positions, or remembers considering that at all.

But that's not the reason why I can't respect her as leader. I have ADD, that would be really hypocritical of me.

What leaves me unable to respect her as leader though (& honestly kinda even wanting Alya to take her position) is the fact that the show doesn't see much wrong with Maribug doing that.

They don't properly depict this as flawed leadership she actually NEEDS to grow out of by making up for her shortcomings by, for example, making other people her official co-leaders. Instead the show since s4 (& kinda s3) will proceed to put it's feminist foot down if Maribug isn't actually in the end 100% correct and "totally girlboss justified" in any given case - with CN & authorities specifically - no matter the context. Ergo she's barely ever truly improving her weakpoints in partnership skills for example & continues doing the same mistakes over n over.

like she genuinely would benefit from having Chat Noir as her co-leader too, not just Rena Rouge. But no. The neurodivergend low-empathy girl can't have a high-empathy boy co-leader bc apparently thats misogynistic now, huh ?

Again, I have ADD and I'm also a woman. In fact, I actually have alot in common with Maribug (hence why it hurt so much once s4 took her away from me), so forgive me when I still say: I am NOT going to lower my standards of my believe that neither of those aspects get to be an excuse on everyone else's expense regarding LEADERSHIP (which I do also am in the position of in my life).

And I repeat: LEADERSHIP. Not Marinette herself as a person necessarily & esp not her civilian life.

People always say that her critics wouldn't be so hard on her if she were a man, but I strongly disagree. In my experience, if Marinette were a boy people would actually draw a line nowadays and call out that Mariano is too stuck in his own head to be a good leader (& partner). And maybe even demand that he shouldn't be in that position anymore either at all or until he's in a better head space.

Bc with male characters people are actually drawing lines now in important factors when it comes to power & the accountability coming with it, bc in the end being in change means it ain't about you

Hence why e. g. Steve Rogers (Captain America) was then a fucking fugitive from the law when shit got real in the MCU. They had to do that bc of his leadership morality not being able to exist well within a corrupted & complex law system under fire and attack. My man's an amazing battle leader, but the MCU did VERY well leaving taking care of all kinds of social & political matters to Tony Stark. This kind of nuance ain't Steve's strength. Marinette & Steve are actually a EXTREMELY similar type of leader and it's interesting that I don't exactly vibe with him too much either in that regard, but like him as person the way I did Marinette. So for me it's definitely an issue with their type of leadership.

But the mainstream female leader characters are often still "too female" to get held to the same regular standards bc telling a female leader character in a complicated and not entirely beneficial situation & position 'yeah, it's sucks but you're not the center of the universe'' is now more often than not still "too mean/ sexist"

again, Steve was made an outlaw for a reason and you can bet if he had been a Stephanie people would have made all her struggles about sexism & called the 'outlaw leader' route after Civil War misogyny, merely bc "society doesnt respect women". This is whats happening with Maribug & it clashes with her leadership style.

Hence why there AREN'T ALOT of mainstream female leader characters. And if we get some, most of them are narratively defined by how powerful & in control they are for THEIR OWN BENEFIT and it being depicted as 100% right & just in general (like with Marinette) which goes against what a normal leader should be, so alot of people don't like them (ignoring the actual sexist people for a sec)

The first Wonder Woman movie for example was so well-received for a reason. They did it RIGHT (& may I please also recommend Wakanda Forever? Fuck, that movie was GOOD)

--

But yes, it's notably how Maribug treats Chat, who is supposed to be her partner and friend, that I take alot of issues with.

And yes, I would say the same if LB were male and CN female. Ladynoir is so rooted in toxic femininity that this "partnership" (or just the entire LS) the way it is could NOT exist today in gender bend. S4 and the s5 finale in particular are unthinkable in gender bend and they sold it as "justified female empowerment" & "unparalleled loving treatment" from Ladybug's side Chat Noir needed to learn to be GRATEFUL for.

All while, and I will never stop stressing this: the show has never stopped writing Marinette to treat Chat Noir as if he basically just spawns into existence once he puts on the mask. He's HALF a human being. Even once she falls in love with him in s5.

This is the fundamental and deep seeded problem of where my issues come from here. It never stands in question if Adrien views Marinette and Ladybug as full human beings, but the other way around that very much is the case. In whatever way it's depicted. Yes this is a line I draw, especially because of the whole Sentihuman thing.

I personally am alot more like Adrien regarding Friendship and partnership (or what his character initially started out). They are heavy & meaningful topics for me. So seeing Marinette being utilized to girlboss all that into the ground with Chat Noir, esp in s4, while she apparently barely ever even noticed anything wrong with how she treats him in the first place as she literally replaced him with Alya/ Rena in everything but name

cause buring him under a wall of secrets & lies meant she can still 100% benefit from his eternal devotion by letting him believe she's too alone to be a partner anymore AT ALL. (Kuro Neko onwards and then NEVER stopped letting him think she's just as alone as he is. NEVER. She's still doing it in s5 while leaving him 100% isolated which was then his demise in the s5 finale.)

and gives Alya the deluxe partnership entirely on his expense, while barely ever sparing him even the most basic thought in anything; & by "Risk" then literally having them switch status. Rena is her actual partner she fully treats that way and he's merely her favorite temp hero with no rights, which Rena was previously.

And the only reason why Chat was treated with something resembling to fairness or dignity again in season 5 (& finally wasn't a rag doll for her every little mood anymore...) was because Maribug plainly had no other choice and had her team & position of power taken away by force while Alya renounced for her own safety. And yet she's still treating him as half a human being even by the end of S5. AFTER her character development. He's Chat Noir and that's where his existence ends in her leadership & friendship. CN and Alya in s5 are literally 2 halves of ONE PARTNER.

All that was painful to watch to say the least. Bc it's imo honestly a disgrace to friendship and partnership. I can't put into words how ashamed I would be of myself if I treated someone the way Marinette treats Chat Noir (again, HALF A HUMAN BEING).

Much less a friend I claim to love dearly and don't want to loose (another thing the MCU did better regarding Steve's fall-out with Tony over Bucky... I should really make that comparison post why Steve works for me & Marinette doesnt)

Just the mere fact that Marinette in "Elation" even told Chat "It doesn't matter who's underneath your mask" is honestly outrageous.

Because thats simply what it is for me. If s4 & 5 Marinette were portrayed from a similar morality angle to Emonette in the Paris special I would have much less issues with her. Cause thats ironically an angle female characters barely get & is mostly used to redeem the broken bad boys with a hidden heart of gold™.

Double irony: s1-s3 actually DID put civilian Marinette often into that angle, hence why I really liked her, but then s4 suddenly said "well, her methods & actions really dont matter. She's wrong, but actually not really; ergo she should get rewarded in the end. Always. But with a few exceptions. Here n there she loses to claim otherwise. But actually the world just needs to learn how right & amazing she is."

She makes countless mistakes but often either doesn't really learn from them anymore or they just don't "count" bc that's 'what makes her quirky & loveable', so having any issues with her now means you hate women. And she's a very flawed leader but actually never did anything wrong. Ever. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I will be VERY blunt now: The moment you put a female character into the leader role the FEMALE aspect is supposed to be of secondary importance. And a leader, by the nature of the position, ALWAYS has to be questioned morally wise in my opinion bc of the fatal blindspots that will automatically occur in every leadership.

And it happened here too: Chat Noir's treatment. But they demanded that her being the (female) leader means she's OWED to treat him badly & gets to keep him as blindspot on HIS expense bc she doesn't like thinking about him existing as civilian person.

A leader is ALWAYS somebody who is NOT going to sit well with everybody regarding their approach. That's a normal instinct, and in fact it would be highly dangerous if that wouldnt happen at all. So if I, or other people, don't respect her as one that simply means she has an opposition the way every leader has & is being held to normal standards a leader should be held to, regardless of gender.

Sorry if you think thats sexist, but in my opinion that's a YOU problem. I personally respect female leaders too much to not acknowledge them as anything else but the potential threats they are. The same way I do with male leaders.

You're leader first, woman second. If you can't handle that get out of the leadership position (yes, oc that also applies the other way around). Feminism was about making sure that women cant be excluded from e. g. position of power just bc we're female. The goal wasn't to have yet another group of people stomp their foots, now claiming that they are OWED power once they wanna have it to feel powerful. But that's what Marinette was used to teach an entire generation of children, especially girls.

The last thing you will EVER get me to do is accept that I should be holding women - specifically for equality, female empowerment and leadership - to LOWER (moral) standards as I would the men in her position.

Buddy, I am NOT gonna fucking do that. Just the thought is pissing me tf off, and has ever since s4, cause it directly plays into the misogynistic thinking of:

"Women can't be given power, status or even too much focus as human beings because they're too irrational and immature to be able to then lay proper priorities & take rightful accountability for their shit like a man in power could; and not just scream and cry while playing the oppressed victim card the moment things don't work out & they aren't being given the special female treatment to let them mostly off the hook consequences wise.

Leading to everyone around them, especially the MEN, having to step up, do the work & basically babysit the women like children - while still having to give her the credit as person in charge - turning the women more or less into toddlers wearing a queen's crown"

Which, by all means, Adrichat in every dynamic of the love square by season 5, Gabriel at the end of "Recreation" and even Luka & Félix (& "thankfully" Alya too since s4) had to do for Maribug in alot of ways.

Pick up all of her slack in several major areas & catering to her while simultaneously having to still give most of the credit to HER or else they would be "mean to the female lead" (it's also telling that Alya is treated the best here, & goodness dont get me started on Su-Han...).

And with that out of the way, a few more meta reasons:

1) I'm NOT watching a damn documentary. Marinette is NOT a 14 year old, she doesnt exist & isnt based on a real person or story. She's a fictional main character and narrative tool, so forgive me for approaching this differently than a real life case.

and 2) in everything I watch I automatically look out for the narrative's blind spots and victims of the writings' favorites. I take it this seriously because this is career related for me.

Hence why I have barely ever liked a main character and ironically Marinette/ Ladybug was once one of the few exceptions (alongside Korra from Legend of Korra and Blitz from Helluva Boss)

Look, when I for example watch Helluva Boss or a Yugioh show I will automatically pay extra attention to how the female characters are being treated bc they are obviously treated worse by the writing and much more neglected and scapegoated than the male characters.

Meanwhile when I watch Miraculous and She-Ra, I do the opposite and pay attention to how the male characters are treated bc now they have the gender-biase against them.

And when I for example watch Avatar the last Airbender or Legend of Korra [and She-Ra, that show is great], then I actually get to be mostly fucking happy for once in my life jfc

I'm not going to elaborate too much more on this because I already named by my main point in the beginning: Chat Noir's - not even Adrien's, I mean CHAT NOIR - sometimes honestly awful treatment being the biggest moral and narrative blind spot of the entire show, and honestly where most of Maribug's problems then are also rooted in. Hence why I started focusing so much on Chat Noir since season 4. I look at the overall narrative and circumstances and look for the blind spots that needs to be solved to get to the core of the problem of this whole mess, to get effective results.

And that was and even by the end remained the fact that Adrichat is treated so badly, scapegoated in every possible way in the name of "feminism" and kicked out of the story where HE is at the core of most everything going on, just so the show can force Maribug into everything, make things about her that have no business being about her

Just so she can then be made to constandly turn around and scream, cry and stress about problems - and go about them in the least effective way - that wouldnt be there in the first place if she wasnt the main character of a story that isnt hers.

Mate, I dont know what to tell you here, but the fact that we are following Marinette Dupain-Cheng ,who has nothing to do with anything besides being the cool action girl, is and will always remain of the of core problems of this show. I WISHED that wasnt the case. But for the love of everything, Kagami would have made so much more sense as the female lead, but no.

Anyway, I will leave it at that now cause I already elaborate much further than I initially wanted to, I just wanted to finally have all this stated.

This Blog is not a full representation of how I lay priorities in (feminist) media in general, my view adjusts to the piece of media I'm watching.

And unfortunately, ever since season 4 Miraculous turned into a full blown extreme case and has only gotten better somewhat recently. So I will continue doing what I always do: focus on the fucking VICTIM whose bad treatment pulls down the whole show's quality, and here that's plain obviously Adrien Agreste/ Chat Noir.

And with all due respect: Die mad about it.

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous #Sexism in Miraculous #ml critical #Season 4 critical #Marinette's leadership is simply my main issue here #Marinette critical #My opinion on leadership #Ladynoir critical #Ml #adrien deserves better #Chat Noir deserves better #Marinette deserves better #And Ladybug DEFINITELY deserved better #I just miss loving this girl so much #I remember how happy I was that she was one of the few main characters I liked and also a female leader #And then s4 came around and took all that away from me #I just cannot respect her leadership 100% on Chat Noir's expense #Sorry for respecting female leaders too much to not drop my fucking standards bc Marinette doesnt like thinking bout Chat existing #That's shit leadership #And even worse partnership and friendship

[xhanisai]

every time I think "Hmm, the ml fandom is chill", one of you nasties pop up, spouting shitty takes like blaming abuse victims for acting anxious or depressed or lonely or shit like that and then I remember why I never wanted to participate in this fandom in the first place.

you SUCK.

#delete later #ml fandom salt #you nasties also reek of misogyny and sexism too #LET BAD BITCHES BE BAD BITCHES.

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“Why did everyone say Marinette was made for Adrien but no one ever said Adrien was made for Marinette? It just seems so sexist to me.”

#marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste #ml #mlb #miraculous #miraculous ladybug #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculous ladybug confessions #sexism #western magical girl confessions #confession 2075

[etirabys]

I've been experimenting with "identifying as stupid and lazy" and it's going pretty well. This month I went to a Javascript meetup with the explicit goal of being slightly stupid there, got into an AI conversation, said a few coherent things, and then mentioned I just didn't want to put in the work into understanding e.g. transformers. Also I said as a simplification that I'd flunked out of linear algebra in college which isn't true (I got an A in linalg but flunked out of the ML course where linalg was heavily in use) but felt. WEIRDLY. pleasurable to say.

When I talked about this on Discord, one of them brought up Stupidism, which is from a good post @mark-gently made. But there's something about my wanton dignity-discarding that goes several steps further from Stupidism and feels very liberating.

Last year I read a weird... pagan?... book, Existential Kink, that invites you to notice how much of your life is shaped to bring about outcomes you supposedly hate, and how you secretly take joy in those outcomes. This seems false for the majority of things one tries to avoid, but leaning into it sure is interesting to try out! And I'm finding it is surprisingly true for "coming off as stupid".

There's something absurdly joyful/thrilling about deciding to go to a meetup and presenting as a moron. Some years ago I would have gone NOOO at the thought, and now I feel like an adrenaline junkie being invited to a new type of gambling event or weird sex thing.

I fully expect to tire of "identifying/presenting as stupid and lazy", but when I move on from it I expect to be more integrated or whatever. Less afraid of being stupid and lazy because I've just gone and done it openly.

One of the stupid things I said at the Javascript meetup was that I hate using libraries in almost full generality. I'm too lazy to read docs or troubleshoot my calls to other people's code. Someone recced me a different meetup for people who roll their own tooling, but warned me it was all male, because he knew I'd found all-male programming contexts stressful in the past.

In college I tended to not even really notice if a lab or a team was all male, because I was a top-half student and just felt totally secure about being in class. But I became phobic of it in jobs because I'm usually the worst dev in any remotely selective workplace, and being the worst dev AND the only woman sucks. I was ashamed of being bad at my job, obviously, but I was mortified at being the entity that diversity posters and mandatory trainings point at to say "if you think women are like that you are a terrible person and causing problems in society". But... I am like that. I guess for society's good I need to hide this as hard as possible?

(I solved this by going to a much less selective workplace and almost explicitly saying "I will be kind of a bad programmer, but I come cheap". I am pretty happy now.)

So, given that I got twisted up by that employment record, current me is delighted at the thought of being openly dumb at an all-male CS meetup. This wouldn't be good for the men (some of whom Want To Unlearn Sexism, etc) nor for Women In Tech, but it would be good for ME. Time to abandon class consciousness and defect on women for my own gain.

It is, well, yeah, existentially kinky to imagine going to this meetup and cheerfully asking dumb questions & occasionally responding with "I don't think I'm ever going to understand that, sorry, you should stop explaining that because I don't want to waste your time".

#rambl #existential kink #suffer puppet #eti vs employment

[jacquesthepigeon]

It is with odd fascination that during my occasional look through the ml salt tag that i think im...finding sugars using it to salt on mari for the bug noire thing. And im like...this WOULD be where you stopped being positive huh? Im not surprised at all at this point i just wanna put this fandom under a microscope and name the study 'internalized sexism the fandom'.

They’re so fucking transparent dhdnhsshskhssk

#i could say more but it’s almost sleepy time for me #anon #ask

[howhow326]

#miraculous ladybug salt #ml writers salt #ml salt #thomas astruc salt #yes this is cringe #I dont care #im coming at them for: #1. treating Adrien the way they did #2. writing Chloe and Lila the way they did #3. treating Kagami the way they did #4. writing Alya and Nino the way they did #and finnaly #allowing Gabriel to exist #and Audrey #and Ms. Bustier #ms Bustier salt #ml racism #ml sexism #ml victim blaming #ml misogyny #ml misogynoir #and probably #a lot more cuz this show is that bad

[teawinx]

now i realize something ironic

Miraculous Ladybug is broadcast on Disney Channel

Do you know a channel with programs that promote GIRL POWER ?

Miraculous has extremely performative girl power.

The main girl always saves the day, so clearly it's super feminist, right?

It's how people are dupped into thinking it's empowering, but peel back that surface layer, you find all the shit

#ml sexism #performative activism

[miraculermarinette]

My last ask got me thinking..

Isn't it weird that the characters that are treated worst by the fandom, i.e, Marinette, Alya and Kagami, have two things in common, that is being girls and being POC? Like, I have noticed that people in this fandom are usually harder on POC characters than they are on white characters and also treat the girls way more badly than the boys.

I even pointed this out before, when the fandom wanted Luka and Adrien to be the guardian and the superhero duo while wanting Marinette to be erased. They didn't even want Kagami to be the Cat miraculous holder which makes all the important members of the team male. Both Luka and Adrien are white boys while the characters they deliberately erased were girls of color.

In Rocketear, Nino, a black boy, acted possessive of his gf Alya just like Chat Noir, a white boy, has been acting for three seasons straight, but he still got more flack for doing so than Chat Noir ever got by the mainstream fandom. Many ML stans also support the writers’ idea of making Marinette, a girl of color. apologize to the police  in the episode Qilin, which was supposed to tackle racism. 

In the show too, girls are usually the ones making wacky decisions, screwing things up and facing the consequences while the boys get to be the perfect angels the writers think they are. And IF the boys do make a mistake at some point, they usually have to face lesser consequences. Their mistakes are often brushed off (Chat Noir’s jealousy in Copy cat) while the girls have to face long term consequences for making a similar sort of mistake (Marinette’s jealousy in Volpina). 

The boys are given better friendships and are seen casually supporting each other, while the girls’ friendships often revolve around their crushes and boyfriends. The girls are shown to be fighting over one boy while the boys have no such rivalry. Girls are pitted against each other and hardly get any character development. Marinette still is obsessed over Adrien and Chloe is still a selfish bully while Adrien was able to get over his creepy flirting and Alec, a guy who tried to trash a teenager on tv for his dream job, gets a redemption in one episode.

And these are just a few examples of the discrimination that exists in Miraculous.

 With all the racist and misogynistic things I have seen in the show, I feel confident enough to say that a group completely made up of White Men shouldn’t be writing a show about a POC Girl. It is a shame that Miraculous is known as a “Girl power show”.

#ml salt #long post #adrien salt #marinette deserves better #ml writer salt #kagami deserves better #ml racism #ml misogyny #ml sexism #marinette dupaincheng #Kagami tsurugi #ml fandom salt #ml fandom sexism #ml fandom racism

[silviakundera]

In Blossom episode 3 & 4 reaction:

The moment FL is confronted with her own dead body 👏 👏

Then a nice murdery dream sequence. Now we're finally cooking!

Though I'm annoyed that FL is being foolish enough to openly declare she's not this noble lady. Snap out of it and try to LIVE, girl! She had enough survival instinct to make it out of a family massacre and rebuild her life as a coroner assistant. So I expect some resilience & ingenuity.

I got no objection to her considering Pan Yue the prime suspect, though. She's not wrong that he's got a reasonable motive & opportunity. Yeah, he was a sweet kid when she knew him but people change, especially when gaining power and status. It's a logical supposition.

I wonder if body snatcher's brother is evil? 🤔

Unexpectedly liked the scene where FL declares that she'll get justice for murdered body snatcher. Obviously the woman doesn't deserve it but I can vibe with the idea of FL feeling 'she paid for wickness with death' ; FL may have wanted revenge but never was gonna take it that far. and she feels a special horror at the idea of a bride being killed by her groom. The idea of getting justice on her behalf allows her to psychologically make peace with taking over another person's body & status.

Also liked that she immediately hooks up with her bestie, so she isn't totally isolated. That's the ingenuity I expected!

the blood declarations made me lol

I really enjoy the FL when she's a scheming hater and I enjoy him more with his dark side setting ON.

Episode 4

I'm just covering my ears & eyes and going la la la la to suspend my disbelief about how the noble miss is allowed to live in the magistrate HQ, observe, and cane officers. It's all ridiculous but whatever. That strange idol drama logic where period typical sexism both exists and does not exist, based on plot convenience.

So Heyang is super corrupt. ML and FL will have a lot of clean up to distract them from trying to murder each other.

I like that Pan Yue continues to appear reasonably suspicious (i.e. took the case file on FL's murder, appears to accept bribes), so our protagonist isn't foolish to distrust him.

On the other hand, I was looking for this drama to be darker with less wacky hijinks. Well, it's a cdrama so the tone could still flip.🤞

Enjoying the dueling, aha I have evidence you might have been at the murder scene vs oh no he might think I was a witness at the murder scene!

#in blossom #cdrama #drama watching

[theerurishipper]

I think it's pretty ironic how some people think if someone hate a show, especially the one about girlboss, then it must be because they're mysoginist and hate to see a strong female character, because the statement it on itself is pretty sexist. I'm not a men and I hate Miraculous or how it become, not because I hate strong female character.

Marinette as a character isn't even strong actually, she looks strong because the other character isn't allowed to shine. She's "strong" at the expense of dumbing and nerfing other characters, and that's not the "strong female character" I want to see.

Marinette as a character doesn't feel "empowering" or even become a good role model. She's only girlboss because the other character isn't allowed to shine over her or become a proper character. She's not a Mary sue, but she sure feel like one because she's never do wrong, she can do everything, gifted and everyone do what she said. Just like one of the writer say, Marinette is Barbie and Adrien is Ken in a senses Marinette is EVERYTHING and Adrien is just Adrien.

Magical girl genre is all about girl power, but Miraculous just ain't it. As someone who grow up with Japanese magical girl show, I'd say Miraculous is an insult to the genre because it shown how they can't write it without sacrificing other characters to make the protagonist shine, it reek with misandry and I hate how it become.

Thank you.

This exactly. I love a good girl power show, and Miraculous really could have been one of those. But they chose to cut down on actually giving Marinette a compelling and inspiring character and chose to just make her the best at everything and make her someone who is never wrong, and that's just not relatable or a good message at all. It just makes her cutting into other characters' arcs annoying.

Thank you for your ask!

#ML Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #Marinette Salt #Asks #Sexism in ML