#spn s13 speculation | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

deanncastiel · 1 year

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Do you reckon had Kripke been show runner for longer he would have made destiel cannon earlier and also I feel like if anything destiel would have become cannon in s8 had they made it earlier (regardless of Kripke had made it cannon or not, as maybe he would have done it later in the series?)

oh nonny this is such a good question and while i have thought about it a lot i'm not quite sure i'm 100% here but we shall see what we get shall we

i'm going to break this down into two sections bc i feel like you asked two separate but related questions

so the first question is - would destiel have become canon earlier if kripke had remained show runner for longer - honestly i think no. i think kripke would have been open to it, just based on what i know of the early planning history of spn as well as dean and his character. but given the time period of when he was showrunner + 5 years after that i can't really see it. i think it's easy to forget that we went through 3 showrunners before gay marriage even became legal in the US (country wide that is) and while shows were certainly pushing the envelope back in the early 2010s i don't think even kripke could have pushed for dean and cas to be canon back then, even if he wanted to

but as i said, i don't necessarily think that because kripke wouldn't have been OPEN to deancas being canon. i certainly don't think it was his intention, but i do think that once he knew about the interest, the idea would have intrigued him.... and that's as far as i've thought here, i could go on but it just gets more and more speculative so eh

the second part of the question (as far as i understood) was more of a theory by anon stating that if tptb had been open to destiel it could have gone canon in s8, regardless of if kripke had remained showrunner past s5

i will say that i think jeremy carver was a huge destiel fan and tried hard to make it canon. we don't call it season gr8 for nothing. i will also say that i think sera gamble was a destiel fan in her own right - as much as someone can be a destiel fan while being as homophobic as possible ;alsdjflkas

personally i do think s8 was a test case of jeremy carver and creative directors to make destiel canon and then tptb shut it down and that's why there was barely anything in s9 or s10. so yes, i think if tptb had been more open to dean and cas it may have gone canon in s8 regardless of kripke's involvement. but as i mentioned earlier, we didn't have gay marriage until 2015 and s8 aired between 2012 - 2013. the same societal pressures that i think would have impacted kripke if he had stayed on as showrunner longer would still be in effect here even if tptb were more friendly

i think the more effective question here is actually would destiel have been canon in s13 had tr*mp not gained the US presidency in 2016

that, i think, was the most significant cultural event that potentially impacted destiel becoming canon. i am too tired to go into all the horrors of the tr*mp presidency but needless to say it was very anti-queer. as crazy as it sounds, i do believe that if clinton had won in 2016 we may have gotten destiel earlier

this all to say - personally i'm not mad that we didn't get canon destiel until s15. as one of my friends mentions constantly, if destiel had become canon earlier it would have been subjected to the standard "relationship drama" that shows utilize and honestly i think that would have been a disservice to dean and cas (tho tbf it is a disservice to all relationships that are subject to it).

i'm happy with not getting canon destiel until s15 bc tbh i'm not sure the show could have handled it effectively and i still question their ability if i'm being honest

i'm a big fan of having an ending where fandom creators can take what we have and build in any direction and that's what we have here, as much as i hate the finale.

anyway this was long but hopefully you were able to bare with me aha

#bri attempts to socialize #Anonymous #i feel like i have so many other thoughts but i just couldn't put them concisely #so here we go

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naruhearts · 6 years

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The amount of love those two can communicate with just a little nod (Cas) and a faint quirk of mouth (Dean) in that 13.13 apology scene. Good god. If someone told me to choose between this and the UST of early seasons I'll gladly choose the present situation. It aches but it's good.

Good good god, amirite nonnie???

Like okay, please bear with me because the Destiel in this ep overall gave me squirmy, warm feelings of faith, hope and love; TPTB delivered the verbal progress I was WAITING for and wow, IMPROVEMENT *flails really really hard*

Dean was so soft, using I, showing Cas he was worried and that he cared. Cas was open in return. Solidarity, interdependence and communication.

(Cas doesn’t hesitate in supporting him. That’s love, my friend.)

Plus the return of hunter husband banter/completing each other’s sentences (no, seriously, BL – Dean’s “We’re boned”, then Cas’ “Epically”? What kind of Dean/Cas euphemist wordplay????)

But I also love BOTH the early season Destiel UST and the present Destiel because it’s a wholesomely lovely picture of their relationship fine-freakin’-wine evolving from unhealthy distrust to mutual trust/honesty; LUST to LOVE, then there’s these particular camera shots–

–where Dean and Cas are together in the background, juxtaposed with Sam doing his own independent thing. *inhales* *exhales*

Visually PREPPING AND PRIMING THEIR RELATIONSHIP AS CANON, as set apart from Sam yet still united, as two hunters who are now starting to USE THEIR WORDS and be upfront with each other regarding their FEELINGS and WANTS; TPTB letting us know that nothing will really change since they naturally click like two damn pieces of the most complex nine-year long romance PUZZLE.

I mean there’s speculation that this is foreshadowing TFW’s fracture–their separation from Sam in an AU like the 13x14 sneak peek has shown us (yes yes, possible Purgatory 2.0), but in an amazing episode which presented Anael mirroring Cas’ S10 speech to Hannah about his personal LIBERATION through the Fall/about Humanity’s capacity to have FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE? In an episode which also gave us a Dean and Cas-coded Lucifer and Anael literally falling into bed together and talking? In an episode which outlines partnerships of different types—-good or bad/Things Looking Like Other Things—-yet seemingly distinguishes Dean and Cas’ TANGIBLE interpersonal (ROMANTIC) partnership??

It’s building, it’s coming, it’s happening.

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mittensmorgul · 6 years

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There are only 11 angels in the universe... Man, they're dicks but that's just sad. Also, why do I feel like the Cas and The Empty scene in 13x04 and the Cas and Naomi in Heaven scene are connected? I can't exactly explain how but I feel weird...

Well, Naomi said there were nine angels in Heaven. I assume she wasn’t counting herself or Cas. So with the nine that have been “keeping the lights on,” plus Naomi, plus Cas, plus Gabriel, plus Lucifer... we got enough to host The Last Supper... That’s actually really not good...

(also kinda wondering which angel is gonna sacrifice their grace to keep Heaven’s power on... if that might be a thing they’re headed toward, or if someone (probably Jack) can boop a few angels back from the Empty, or if AU Angels might’ve caused some similar calamity in their own version of Heaven and that’s why they’re battling it out for the Earth over there in the first place and some of them might volunteer to go help save our universe’s Heaven instead of continuing their battle in the AU... so many possibilities!)

Back in 13.04 I think most of us believed that Naomi was one of the angels in the Empty, right? But she’s been in something like her own personal version of the Empty all these years instead, rebuilding herself from a torture that left her severely damaged in much the same way she’d done to Cas and other angels throughout time. And yet she survived that, and the Angel Fall, and the civil wars that followed, and has now stepped back up to lead the very very few angels left.

Like, Heaven is sort of becoming the empty, in that it’s empty of angels. I wonder what’s become of the human souls up there? Are their individual Heavens breaking down? Are they aware that there’s something seriously wrong with the Matrix up there? Are they waking up? ARE THE BOBBIES GETTING SURLY?!

#spn 13.19 #spn s13 spoilers #spn s13 speculation #Anonymous

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m-sherezade · 6 years

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I've been curious about one thing. Maybe it is a little twisted but if we really have au!Castiel and our Cas takes his grace. Maybe if would recognize him and It's not like he stealing it.... It could be more life and powers again... even wings... Just thoughts but could there possibly be a point?

#spn speculation #SPN S13 #Cas #Castiel #Castiel grace #spn au angels #au!castiel #spn angels #spn angels grace #spn s13 speculation

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margarittet · 6 years

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I have been working on a text about Dean’s grief, and I realised something that I’d like to remind everyone of - something that we may have forgotten because we have been living in the feeling of loss and emotional craziness since May, and it ok. Nevertheless we need to remember that in-universe it has only been a few days since the events of the finale.

“Lost and Found” literally covered one day (sunrise to sunset).

Then, after they burnt Cas and Kelly at sunset, they most probably took off and started going back to Kansas (from Washington). North Cove to Lebanon is 25 hour drive. In episode 2 they are in Wyoming, which is more than halfway home (18 hr drive from North Cove)(no wonder Sam thought it’s high time for Dean to get some sleep).

On the third day they went to Jasper, Jack opened the gate of Hell, let the Shadim out, then closed it again. Another day has passed.

Of course Jack did the math for us in the hotel (he’s been alive for 3 days, 17 hours and 42 minutes), so let’s go with Bucklemming here and assume they arrived in Wyoming the fourth day after the finale.

Then they got back to Kansas, and we know that Dean closed himself in his room, drinking, and Jack stayed in his, examining walls.

I really don’t think Sam waited several days to go check on Jack, so I think it was just a few hours/a day, tops.

Then Missouri called, Dean went to meet her, took Jody and drove to Omaha, met James and Patience, Patience got kidnapped, everything went down in Omaha, they left Patience to be normal, probably came back to pick up Jody’s car (and attend Missouri’s funeral?), and drove back home.

Even with all the adjustments it couldn’t have been more than two weeks. Probably less than that.

Normally when you lose a loved one, you have more time to adjust. Usually the funeral arrangements take several days at least, and then you have stuff to think about, and your brain has some time to process what just happened. Cas and Kelly’s funeral happened in less than 24 hours after their deaths, and the boys had stuff to do ever since. Dean had literally only enough time to drink a couple of six-packs and listening to some Rolling Stones before he was on the road again. At least he got away from the kid who literally looked like Cas’ Mini Me.

They cope differently. Dean had to get out, Sam had to start the task at hand, but what they both need is time which they really didn’t have before now. I really don’t get people who criticize either of them. Considering everything, they are doing amazingly well with the grief - especially since with their Mom, neither of them had a chance for closure. Dean is grieving, Sam is bargaining, but they both are hurting. Give them a break.

I also wonder how long Cas has been between life and death before Jack woke him up, and how long he will still stay in the Empty, since we know time is going very differently there.

Actually, most probably Dean will be without Cas just a few weeks before Cas comes back - unless we’re having some huge time jump ahead of us (doubtful). At the same time, Cas may spend years or millenia in the Empty. No wonder he comes back changed. I am very curious about how this plays out.

#spn s13 speculation #grieving!Dean #grieving!Sam #timelines #s13 meta

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laranmina · 6 years

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Question about Spn 13x12

Sooo...if Daneel is gonna play a faith healer and Lucifer is hunting her because of reasons, that means he is free of Asmodeus, right? So...what about Cas, where is he? Waiting to be rescued by Dean like a lady in distress?

#supernatural season 13 #supernatural #spn s13 #spn 13x12 #spn s13 speculation #daneel harris #castiel #destiel #dean winchester

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ricketyjukeboxer · 7 years

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I was thinking about the whole "Dean is anti-Jack right now" reveal at SDCC. At the end of Season 12, he seemed to at least be coming around to the idea of discussing Jack with Cas. Now that Cas is dead, Dean's just done. This is just one more thing that goes to show the intensity and nature of Cas' death for Dean. He doesn't want to help Jack. He wants to kill the Cause that killed Cas.

#destiel #spn s13 #spn s13 speculation #spn meta #little meta

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mybrainproblems · 2 years

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It's really the (and then.) direction in 12x12 that says it all

The pause, the elaboration. The market research results they would not yet have received when writing and filming this episode.

#the fan's interview was dec 2016 and 12x12 would have been pitched/written in the summer and likely filmed in dec/jan #execs likely didn't get the market research data until early in 2017 and i'd guess no earlier than feb just bc of holidays #even if that fan's interview was the last one there were the holidays and they'd need to compile data for execs and present #pure speculation but i'd guess they got the results in feb/mar at which point 12x12 was essentially done #i would wonder if it was later tho given how 13x01 and early episodes of s13 go like there is course correction on it #but there's also advanced thanatology so like... who knows #now that house stuff is a bit more sorted i will get back into #spreadsheetsnatural #destiel #spn #these tags are a little delirious and incoherent i'm insomnia rn

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eruthiawenluin · 7 years

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Guys if Castiel doesn't come back from the Empty with a Russian accent Idk how I can watch s13

#and Sam's gonna be Jack's surrogate father after Cas and Kelly and Lucifer #AND AND AND Sam's gonna leave Dean and the hunting life and once again embrace his powers #spn s13 speculation #sort of #my stuff #spn

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naruhearts · 6 years

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Sam vs Dean and Cas in 13x21

I’m so excited, y’all. The 13x21 sneak peek is everything!!

DEAN: We’re not teaming up with [Lucifer].

CAS: We just need his grace.

SAM: Oh, just!

DEAN: We’ve trapped his ass before.

SAM: Yes, and every time, it ends up the same way! With the Devil being on the loose, again!

CAS: Look, Sam. I was used by Lucifer too. It was the worst possible violation. So I’m not taking your reluctance lightly, but he is already out there and we’ve been...ignoring it and avoiding dealing with him because we’re afraid. We let Lucifer out of the cage. And he has never stopped being our responsibility.

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Major characteristic subversion. And the narrative weight this scene alone (and the ep overall) will contribute to the thematic tones of 22 and 23 shall kill us! We’re ready, Berens!!

Alongside Dean/Cas’ mirroring arcs and Dean & Sam swapping roles re: brodependency and faith x, Cas and Sam have swapped roles. Avoidance vs confrontation. Cas’ dialogue to Sam is one of real accountability (and one that at the same time does not invalidate Sam’s respective Lucifer-central trauma. There’s shared acknowledgement). It’s a far cry from his depressive mindset in S11/12 where the prospect of facing Lucifer was met with fear, impulsivity and unstable plans. Old Cas would’ve continued to disregard team effort and looked for Lucifer alone. Echoing Billie: how did that go in S11? 12x23?

On this show, you never win by yourself—the key life lesson Cas has finally taken to heart. You win together.

Cas is talking it out. We’ve seen him doing this post-resurrection all season long —> 13x13, 14, and 19 in particular. He’s weighing Dean and Sam in the proceedings, spreading his plan on the table, hearing their concerns. Dean’s yay for it, as @santamadredidios wrote in their lovely post (w/ brilliant commentary by @amwritingmeta) regarding Sam and Cas’ subverted arcs/TFW’s shifting team dynamics. Sam’s nay.

I (and @moansmisha, and countless others) wrote in commentary that we’ve been expecting a necessary split since S13 began, and I also answered an ask talking about D/C’s relationship, communication, and the consistent turnover of the visual narrative from 13x13 --> Dean and Cas as a separate narrative unit versus Sam (who must take up his own independence) is currently happening.

Meta confirmation’s glorious, huh?

Dean’s the visual figure of spousal support, standing behind Cas. Mutual agreement and solidarity. Oh, and observe the kitchen *Dean’s Heart and Home* spotlight placed above Cas in both screenshots *Dean’s Faith Faith Faith* 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

Then what are the visual TFW implications? Dean and Cas literally lean against the furniture (metaphorically ‘lean on one another’) vs Sam who is sitting down across from them. There’s wide cinematographic berth between the two parties (Dean and Cas are smaller objects), and Sam’s back is turned to the viewer, signifying discretion and distance/disagreement re: Lucifer and Apocalypse Now. Sensitive family talk.

Don’t get me wrong—necessary pain is on the horizon because Dean’s slated to make The Bad Decision™ of all Bad Decisions (aka wrong thing for the right reasons) (sigh, hello, red shirt that had a vital appearance in Beren’s toxic brodependent 11x17).

He’ll throw a large wrench into team unity, but remember, final regression before progression!! Progression for the whole fam!

Of course, Dean/Cas + TFW (mis)communication is still apparent, however there’s slow yet SURE progress *points at 13x21* towards complete honesty!

Right now TFW are together, and soon enough we’ll witness the pos/neg narrative and characteristic impacts of Dean’s actions once we cross the threshold into S14 after the last 3 eps, meaning: codependence --> independence. Worthlessness --> worthiness. Separation --> unity.

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mittensmorgul · 6 years

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But imagine when dean and cas meet again and cas would roast dean for jumping into danger alone and without telling him and dean would be like "well now you know how i feel!" I mean it probably won't happen but would be cool, right? :D ( sorry about the grammar, I'm a mere russian)

I WOULD’VE GONE WITH YOU, DEAN. IT WAS STUPID TO GO ALONE.

which reminds me of the post it notes Dean stuck on Sam...

Definitely stupid. I really hope Cas gets a chance to tell him to his face. And not only that, but to tell him WHY. We need some serious clarification between these guys.

Not just “You were stupid,” or “It was stupid to go alone,” but “It was stupid because you shouldn’t have to do this alone,” and “because you are just as important to me as finding Mary and Jack,” and “losing you would be worse than never being able to find them.”

(and your grammar is fine!)

#spn 13.16 #spn s13 speculation #destiel #using your words #Anonymous

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eleooooooo · 6 years

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inspired by this post right here via @super-sootica and @brieflymaximumprincess

I just couldn’t pass up on this opportunity and I really hope this happens in season 14 because it’s such a good and appropriate way to fix the angel shortage. And hilarious.

sabriel prequel to this

prayer circle for gabe to come back

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margarittet · 7 years

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So, of all the gin joints... I mean, of all the western movies out there, Davy Perez names his first episode in s13 (13x06) after this one.

(Yeah, this is the deputy sheriff’s gay lover. Dead.)

Just saying.

#tombstone #spn s13 speculation #or whatever this is #I am suffering already and the season haven't even started yet #gay subtext is a thing #spn 13x06 #davy perez

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holisticfansstuff · 5 years

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So, I'm watching spn 13x13 and I had no idea Anael is such an interesting character. I love her already.

Also, shout-out to the nice homeless dude who offered curry to the Devil in a moment of kindness and walked away unscathed.

I'm getting vague Bela flashbacks watching Anael, but Anael is much more confident and less - fearful. Fewer sharp edges. But that's to be expected I suppose. She is an angel after all. And she didn't get tricked into signing up for an eternity in hell.

It's interesting that she's feeling the same draw to humanity Cass and Anna did. I don't know if it foreshadows her fall, in the true sense, later in the series, but...yeah, let's see.

I'm trying to understand why she helped Lucifer, because I don't, not really...I don't get why she made that split second decision to back Lucifer against Cass and the Winchesters.

Maybe one possible reason is that she was, as she herself said, in the lower echelons of the angel heirarchy. It's unlikely that she interacted a great deal with Castiel, Naomi or any of her superiors, at least on an equal footing. From where she stands, Castiel laid waste to most of heaven and then caused them to get kicked out altogether. It was liberating for her personally, but she watched her brethren suffer. From an angel's POV, what difference is there, really, between Cass and Lucifer ? Both caused untold suffering to their own kind. Both achieved notoriety in Heaven, even if it were for all the wrong reasons ( unlike her ).

If she were human, she'd have had every reason to support Cass. He averted the apocalypse after all. Twice. But she isn't human. And philanthropic instincts can only run so deep. In any case, to most angels, compassion doesn't seem to come naturally.

Even the good ones seem to care far more about doing the right thing, than about being compassionate. Castiel's compassion for humankind was unusually well developed, but he was an oddity, even among angels. From the point of view of someone who's never been human, it must seem inexplicable , why Cass would turn his back on his own kind and sacrifice so much for what was essentially an alien species.

Besides, Anael at her core, I think, is a rebel. Not in the same way Cass was or even Lucifer was, but nonetheless, in her own way she enjoys doing her own thing. She must have chaffed at the bit, quite a bit in her role in Heaven. It must have felt so confining. And Lucifer is unpredictable.

It's possible she sees him as her ticket to implementing her ideas about how Heaven should be run. Noone ever listened to her before. This time, it might be different.

Given how logical and resourceful she is, her ideas might work, if she's allowed to put them in practice. But Lucifer is such a loose canon - poor impulse control, over emotional, highly impractical in general - I don't know how long their alliance will last, really.

X

#long post #anael meta #angel meta #castiel #lucifer #apocalypse #spn meta #spn speculation #i could be completely wrong of course #this is all speculation #let's see #i'm excited to see where this goes #spn 13x13 #spn spoilers #s13 spoilers

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santamadredidios · 7 years

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Remember Dean‘s knee-injury from 12x22?

You could see it as a mirror of his emotional state in early season 13: fairly substantial, (sort of self-inflicted), persistent, Jody is the one offering him support, and eventually it‘s Cas who fixes him.

(For the record, I‘m pretty sure someone else has though of this before, probably back in May, and as always my attempts at meta are embarrassingly incoherent. Feel free to link any other post on this :))

#parallels #spn #spn 12x22 #spn 12x23 #spn s13 speculation #destiel #dean winchester #grieving!dean #cas is going to fix dean

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thedogsled · 6 years

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The Horcrux Effect

You’re building a story. You plan it meticulously, you even come up with a few different ways it could go, but ultimately you decide on one and start laying down all the hints that will make you look super clever when you pull it off, rather than pulling the final battle out your ass.

In book six, you already have to know how book seven is going to go. So people read book six, and because we don’t have anything better to do we spend hours discussing it, metaing it, introducing backstories for background characters. We suck that baby dry, because it’s not like an episode of TV, we have years to do it. We make predictions, and because many of those predictions run back through the story, they hold more water than others (i.e. Voldemort came to make a Horcrux using the boy destined to kill him as the required death in the spell, and instead Voldemort, struck by the Avada Kedavra curse bouncing off Lily, was the required death in his spell, and Harry became the final Horcrux--thus the scar on his head, his ability to speak Parseltongue, being drawn to the other half of Voldemort’s wand, almost being put in Slytherin, having pretty dark fucking thoughts sometimes, being specifically placed by Dumbledore in a place he could be watched, and basically, you know, everything.)

And then when the seventh book comes out? Yup. Some of those theories come true, and the most convincing ones are held by more than just one person because “ZOMG GUYS WHAT IF...”. And as a result Harry being the final Horcrux loses a lot of its emotional impact, because instead of going ‘holy shit that’s AWESOME I can’t believe that’s where she was going with that!’ you go ‘saw that coming, how boring.’

This is what I call the Horcrux Effect. Canon lets you down because, well, you’re paying very close attention to it.

As a writer, as you move toward the end of a story, or toward the end of a series, you stop juggling quite as many plot balls. If you want a satisfying ending, leaving as few questions hovering as possible is best. The weapon is destroyed. X goes back to domestic life with Y. The evil is vanquished. You can also replace them with one large, profound question if you want to make a specific impact.

These days, TV doesn’t often get to tie up those knots in a satisfying way, but when, like with Harry Potter, you know when you’re going to end precisely, you can start putting down some of those balls you’re juggling. Remember that the ultimate goal is one ball, and don’t be surprised when the juggler is juggling three or four balls, that they don’t have much choice as to which one they’re going to lay down next.

Yes, sometimes that will mean that a plot is disappointingly predictable, but maybe they’ll do it in a way which surprises you! Just bear in mind that even if you end up disappointed by the Horcrux Effect it’s not your fault, or proof that TPTB are crappy. It just means you’re smart to it. And maybe that’s what it comes down to, like the plot of Hook, where Peter Pan grows up and gets wise to life, and forgets how to just have fun? No matter how much meta you read, you should try to remember to have invisible food fights, too.

Rufio, Rufio, Rufiooo.

#in which reg starts with a harry potter analogy #and is suddenly talking about robin williams #the horcrux effect #s13 adjacent #spn adjacent #harry potter analogy #speculation is not meta #stop when it's not fun #storytelling #bangarang

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