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#steve marmel
roachleakage · 7 months
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Having gone through the whole show (aside from Phantom Planet, I'm saving that for its own day) I feel like I was a bit harsh on Steve Marmel. Don't get me wrong, I'm still not a fan of some of his creative choices, but it seems like he wasn't primarily responsible for the worst writing in the series; that dishonor goes to Butch Hartman and Sib Ventress, the latter of whom has everything under his belt from decent episodes to several of the series' biggest stinkers.
On the flip side, there's a strong pattern of my favorite episodes being written not by Marmel, but by Marty Isenberg. The fact that he also vanished between seasons 2 and 3 makes me think there was more to the loss of quality than just Marmel's departure.
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griffinftw · 1 year
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Butch Hartman = Bob Kane
Steve Marmel = Bill Finger
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dekalko-mania · 8 months
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One of the saddest dp scenes lowkey was in Kindred Spirits when Danny kept saying thank you over and over to Sam and Tucker for saving him when he thought he was really going to die.
They didn't even know exactly what they saved him from, just that he wouldn't stop thanking them. Like almost desperately.
It was played up as a wholesome moment and it was, but it's also kind of brutal when you think about it. David Kaufman did a really great job with this as well - you can HEAR the tremble in his voice at the beginning. Like despite his brave face and willingness to keep fighting, he was really terrified. The whole Vlad situation was really a wake up call - if he didn't have his friends to help him, then he might not even be half alive at all at this point.
It's also a bit of insight into what he's thinking during his brave/heroic moments. He hides the fact that he's often scared very well. Reminds me of that one quote - Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.
Scene attached for context but bro he would not STOP. Even they were like??? What is going on??
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cosmicsponge2004 · 2 months
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I FINISHED SEASON 2!!!
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pumpkinleif · 2 years
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With the graphic novel coming out soon and people creeping back into the Danny Phandom after... a while... I’ve seen a couple posters wondering how a very NOT-transgender guy like Butch came up with a character with such powerful, universal trans energy. And while some of that answer is “Nicktoons were your childhood favorite and you’re trans,” I feel like it’s important to note that the initial concept art for Danny has NONE trans swag. None whatsoever.
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Look at this guy. This guy disrespects women. This guy uses Axe body spray to cover up the fact that he hasn’t showered in two weeks. This guy talks about crossfit and supports Trump.
The transgender swag was a gradual bimbofication that was brought to us by the concept art of artists such as Bob Boyle and character designers like Stephen Silver. (Also Shannon Tindle, Ernie Gilbert, Erik Wiese, Ray Angrum, Chris Graham, Ian Graham... Look, there’s a LOT of people that draw a cartoon.)
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Bob Boyle concept art ^^^
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Stephen Silver concept art. (Also notable for giving us Kim Possible’s iconic swag.) ^^^
So remember, if your favorite cartoon character has trans swag, don’t thank your pitch creators, thank your local storyboard artists or character artists today!
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zimmerdouche · 1 year
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the mcdonald’s sauce accident post has me going down the danny phantom rabbit hole, esp for “the ultimate enemy” and realizing just how insane of a cartoon ep it was when it came out in 2005. like. bro
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ursaspecter · 2 years
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The way Reign Storm feels like a better series finale than Phantom Planet...
A little reorganizing and rewriting would need to happen to make it make sense as a series finale, but even as it is it makes way more sense and feels more complete than Phantom Planet did.
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stophangiingdjs · 2 years
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rewatching danny phantom for the first time since i was like 13 and wow. they really up and called that boy a twink.
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neoyi · 9 months
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Okay, cool. I can finally talk about the absolute catharsis I felt after fifteen years hoping - dreaming - of this moment because holy SHIT, they did it. They goddamn DID IT.
VLAD GOT HIS REDEMPTION ARC.
Let's talk about it...
By the end of the third season, Vlad Masters had ostracized the entire planet by exposing his true self (why), demanding money and total command of Earth, and completely wailing on Jack Fenton, driving away the only member of that family who unequivocally adored the man where every other Fenton knew him for who he truly was: utterly despicable and incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Because, after all, he is a villain and that's just what villains do. Villains want power. Villains want to rule the world. There need not be more than that, and in another show, there wouldn't have to be. As far as Hartman was concerned, there is only a binary Good vs. Evil.
You would be hard-pressed to view the Vlad in "Phantom Planet" as the same man who anguished in desperate madness when his perfect clone son died in his arms. That was a Vlad who, by that point, had taken his biggest gamble and lost. I guess one could see his reasoning in season three as a "fuck it all, what even is the point" mode. But while "Eye For an Eye" (tellingly, the last major script helm by former main story writer Steve Marmel... just saying) promised a personal conflict, by the end of the show, he's made it much more external, far greater than what he and Danny's interwoven plot originally started off as.
Vlad is pathetic. Vlad is narcissistic. He is egotistical, entitled; a bitter, arrogant man who lives in his dream castle with all the money and privilege in the world that would leave him content a hundred times over, and it's still not enough.
Money is not Maddie Fenton, the woman he loves. Money is not Jazz, a child that should have been his. Money is not Jack's friendship whom he denies severely, the only part of his life who willingly embraces him. And money is not Danny, who is a half-ghost like him, and by all rights, should have been his son.
No one else could ever understand to the fullest extent of their uniqueness than Vlad and Danny would to each other, and the latter, for the longest time, hated that. Hated the way Vlad talked down to him and manipulated him, hated the whispers into his ears with promises of grand power if he just joined the billionaire's side and become his ward, hated when he caved in just once in front of Vlad's eyes who responded with a smug "See, I know you" reaction. Danny was fortunate to have good moral compasses from his family and friends, but the thing is, though, it's not about the healthy support structure he had, because Vlad had the chance to get some, too. Jack and Maddie loved Danny no matter what he was, and dollars to donuts, they would have for Vlad if the latter had approached them with his problems.
But he chose instead to be bitter and miserable, taking it out on everyone and expecting them to fall into his train of thought. The show knew what he did was wrong, but until season three, never stopped repeating his truest desire: to find love and squash his crushing loneliness.
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Hartman couldn't provide a damn on what exactly was Vlad's "destiny" in "Infinite Realm"; it was vague gesturing to excuse his villainy. He was more than happy to abandon the life he's made for himself and the woman he loved in spite of two decades of planning, all on a whim for whatever time period the Infi-map was willing to take him, hoping maybe this one will give him the unconditional worship that he thinks he's deserved (by force, of course.)
Because he's the villain.
And for the longest time, the show ended with the idea that Vlad deserved to be stranded, away from people, because he simply could not help himself. To be fair, there is a lesson in that - some people genuinely DO go so far that there really is nothing more we can do other than stop the problem before they cause any further harm. I'm not denouncing that.
What I AM denouncing is the the narrative plant that's dug its way into the greater plot where an older Vlad in "The Ultimate Enemy", realized what a fool he had been. What he wouldn't give to start all over and be a better person. You don't just give someone a sympathetic goal like "looking for love", constantly provide the necessary stepping stones, and not have it set up for something far more substantial than what we got.
And even then, even if it still ended with Vlad being too far gone, I wonder, should the supposedly original plot arc for season three had been made, would Vlad's fate there been far more appropriate than whatever cartoonish supervillainy he ended up as by the time "Phantom Planet" ended?
I cannot speak for Gabriela Epstein. I cannot say how much Nickelodeon allowed her to tinker with the DP world. All of this is presumptuous speculation on my part, but this entire comic feels like they looked at season three, particularly "Phantom Planet", realized what a travesty that was, had their work cut out for it, and went about to make a post-series finale story that still paid tribute to its ending while wiping it off the map.
Vlad's redemption is the crux.
Within just a few panels, Gabriela Epstein provided an explanation on the why of Vlad's actions circa-season three. The Infi-Map was aimless because Vlad's purpose was aimless. And Vlad's purpose was aimless because his need to be in control was a manifestation of his greatest fear: being alone.
"A Glitch in Time" recontexualizes why Vlad traveled across time in "Infinite Realm." It wasn't a generic bad-guy-wants-to-rule-the-world-through-latest-plot-claptrap, but an act of utter desperation from a man who had since lost the biggest connection to his very being: Danny.
It started with Maddie (someone whom Vlad only interacts once in the comic, but is an acknowledgement of his villainous origin, nonetheless), and it may still end with Danny.
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Never, in a million, billion years, have I even thought about another redemption arc... for Dark Danny.
And I am kicking myself for not even considering such an option. I had pegged him so far gone, so far past the breaking point to think otherwise. Dark Danny was suppose to be the outcome of a Danny at his literal worst: a too-late, too-little scenario. Back then, it was a symbol of Danny's rejection of what Vlad expected and desired of him.
But the comic made me sit down and think about the implication of Dark Danny's very existence, that of a man who lost his family and friends ten years ago as a child. Like Vlad, he, too was alone, and had carried a tremendous amount of pain and anguish that his human half just could not bear.
Yeah, they died because of a time loop HE created, but that doesn't erase that he was born from a horrible trauma that he could not properly cope with. And Vlad, try as he might, did not fix it. All he ended up doing was separate a ghost - infamous for their obsessions, and now, as the comic established, a carrier of human emotions - to exist. And Dark Danny carried so much raw emotion that he retaliated very, very violently.
Everyone's respond at that time was to fight him and stuff him in a Fenton Thermos for eternity. I am not saying Danny wasn't justified in fighting his darker self because the dude legitimately caused massive damage and likely murdered a hell of a lot of people, I am just saying Dark Danny is the byproduct of a scared, lonely, traumatized child.
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And what does he do? He tries to take what he thinks is his by any means necessary. Vlad got his wish, he got the son he wanted.
And he's facing him now.
And he gets it.
He finally fucking GETS IT.
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Which shouldn't have been a surprise because his "The Ultimate Enemy" counterpart got it. He looked at the devil that he created and lingered as a hermit in regret. And now Vlad - Vlad Prime - reacted the same.
Only this time, he can fix it.
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I did not anticipate that Vlad's redemption would happen at the same time as Dark Danny's. I didn't expect the two of them to link other than the latter being another number in Vlad's bullshit entitlement count.
I love that it isn't Danny who heals him, but Vlad. It had to be Vlad. In order to own up to his actions, Vlad had to look at the eyes of the boy he was entrusted and corrupted beforehand and apologize for what he put him through. And I don't mean just "The Ultimate Enemy", Vlad is apologizing for everything he's done up to this point.
He (temporarily) sacrifices his body to stabilize Dark Danny who has fucked up the time stream so much that he wouldn't be able to exist otherwise. And only then do the two of them get what they've longed for.
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Vlad gets a son.
Dark Danny gets a family.
Holy forking shirt balls.
I have a lot of problems with alternate counterparts sticking around longer than they should in the "main" setting of a show. Usually I'm fine when it's an alternate counterpart demonstrated as someone the hero is trying so hard not to be, because it's compelling to see what could have been under different circumstances. It's another thing when you have another version of the main character running around doing their own thing. Multiverse characters are inherently messy just by existing, but it gets worse when they take away from the uniqueness of the central protagonist.
There's something awkward about two Danny Phantoms living in the same world, and in any other scenario, I would have hated it. But Dark Danny is of a vastly different background brought forth from a long, nuanced, engaging history between him and Vlad.
Danny's central journey - the cusp of the show - has always been the Spider-Man mantra, "great powers = great responsibilities." You are in charge of how you carry the burden of your powers. Vlad has been the one constant always challenging and belittling his selflessness. "A Glitch in Time" had Danny asking himself, what is his purpose? Who is he now that everything has been neatly wrapped up?
Writing anything about who Danny is means Vlad is presented in some way, shape, or form. They are so thoroughly linked to each other, and it's that link that simultaneously serve to push their own individual character arc, and their relationship with each other.
So, Vlad gets a son. Dark Danny gets a family. They get a second chance, and it is up to them to work it out. I have no idea if Vlad got his wealth back. Everything is restored as is, except Danny's secret identity is secured again (which I am 100% fine with except for one notable exception, but that's another topic for another day) and implication that Vlad was just a crummy mayor with no indication the greater public is also aware of his Plasimus mode (which I am also fine with.)
There's a part of me who thinks he should have lost the money and power he's accumulated because he gained them through his vice, but if he's back in his Wisconsin cheese castle, then he can damn well use the money he has to not only benefit the world (charities, improving human lives, funding Fenton Works ;D...), but to raise his son.
Dark Danny is going to have to adjust to the idea that his father is Vlad, something he was already expected to do so when he orphaned himself and moved in with him. But it's Vlad who has to work the most out of the two: as a parental figure - as an adult - he's always had a power over Danny regardless of what timeline they're in. Most of the time, he's abused it heavily.
The second chance Vlad has been given here means he has the ability to provide a safe, healthy environment. It's more than he deserves. He failed with Danny and he absolutely failed with Dani (another can of worms in itself; she's not mentioned in the comic, and I imagine it's because her story would need a comic of her own), he cannot fail with this Danny.
Vlad shouldn't have been given a child at all until there was a guarantee that he could work through his bullshit, but Dark Danny is a special case. He is a kid who needs a home and someone to love him unconditionally, and Vlad needs to learn boundaries while giving selfless love in order to be loved himself.
Clockwork gave Vlad a test, so get studying, dude.
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This does not erase how Danny Prime feels about him. He may never want to forgive Vlad, and that's his right. He can acknowledge however, that, in order to help those in need of healing, a door can be opened, even if slightly ajar.
For Vlad, that may just take a bit longer and that's completely understandable.
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Vlad can't have the kind of relationship he wants with this Danny, but maybe one day, they can be equals - friends.
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Like christ, I think this is the first time Vlad has actually, genuinely asked if Danny was alright.
The comic was already good prior to this, but just knowing - understanding that Vlad was more than "a villain" - meant after fifteen looooong years, we finally see the promises of a brighter future for a man with shitty priorities, but a sympathetic goal.
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"It's over, isn't it? It's over, isn't it? It's over, isn't it..."
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dannyphantomarchive · 24 days
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Early production deep-dive - Part 2: The new Nicktoon   
It wasn’t until October 2001, during a dinner with Nickelodeon’s executives Albie Hetch and Kevin Kay, that he would pitch the idea for Danny Phantom and end up with a deal for the pilot on the spot:
“Butch Hartman: To top it off they said, "Hey, got any other ideas?" Whoa. This was a big moment. I had Danny Phantom in my head, but I wasn't really prepared to talk about it and I had no idea they were gonna ask me this. What do I do?? Well, I did the obvious - I held my breath and dove in. So, with really nothing more than the cool name I'd thought up, and a few drawings (which I didn't even have with me, I had to describe them!) plus a few other character ideas - best friends, parents, etc. I told them about the show in about 30 seconds. There was a pause and then Albie - the big boss - said, "Can you have the pilot episode done by March?" That was it. It was sold just like that in a restaurant in October, 2001. I was floored.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20080102170004/http://hometown.aol.com/zcat6/IntBH2006p3.html)
(Here’s the pitch document, written later along with Steve Marmel: https://archive.org/details/dannyphantompitch/mode/2up )
Butch once again contacted Boyle and Marmel, who were also part of the Fairly OddParents crew at the time, and together they worked on the pilot until January 2002, when Nickelodeon executive Margie Cohn, and Kevin Kay informed him that Nick was asking for 6 episodes now:
“Butch Hartman: This was huge news! Now we were officially making a series! This means we had to stop everything and regroup. We were making Danny into a series now and we really had to be aware of the progression of the characters and the expansion of Danny's world. So work commenced on building the Danny Phantom universe: Amity Park. Fenton Works. His friends, his family, what specific powers he had, etc. (Keep in mind, we were still making Fairly Oddparents at the same!) Everyone involved was awesome. We brought on character designers Shannon Tindell and Steve Silver. They pretty much came up with all the main character designers except for Danny. That was mostly me, then Steven Silver jumped in and we finalized it together. Then Shannon left and character designer Ben Balestreri was brought in. He really helped move things along, too. Everyone else involved worked really hard to make sure that - even though we were making two series' at once - both series got a 100% commitment from everyone.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20080102170004/http://hometown.aol.com/zcat6/IntBH2006p3.html)
The newest Nicktoon was soon announced to the public, along with four other shows, on March 12th 2002, during the annual Nickelodeon upfront:
“Nick to Spin Off Rugrats By R.Thomas Umstead [...] Other new series set to premiere in the fall are The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, based on the Nick film of the same name; Danny Phantom, an animated series about a kid superhero; My Neighbor Is a Teenage Robot, an animated spinoff of Nick's Oh Yeah! Cartoons;and Max and Ruby, an animated series for the network's 'Nick Jr.' preschool block. [...]” (Source: https://www.nexttv.com/news/nick-spin-rugrats-136686)
“RUGRATS SPIN-OFF AND THE ADVENTURES OF JIMMY NEUTRON: BOY GENIUS AMONG FIVE NEW ANIMATED HITS TO HEADLINE ON NICKELODEON IN 2002-03 SEASON […] Danny Phantom (6 episodes) From Butch Hartman, the creator of the hit Nicktoon The Fairly OddParents, Danny Phantom is the animated action/comedy story of 14-year-old Danny Fenton, who uses his razor-sharp wit and amazing ghost-like superpowers to transform into a teen superhero. As Danny Phantom, he thwarts the misdeeds of menacing ghosts while facing the challenges of everyday life as an otherwise ordinary kid. […] (Source: http://www.nickandmore.com/2002/03/12/nickelodeon-upfront-2002/)
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roachleakage · 8 months
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Steve Marmel is truly an incomparable writer. I don't know anyone else who has managed to Flanderize their own characters, in a project they were lead writer on, in the first season.
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threewaysdivided · 5 months
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for the ask game: 💥🤔📚
if we can only do one, your pick :)
(Fanfic writer ask game)
💥 What is one canon thing that you wish you could change?
I've talked about some other changes in a previous ask, but I think Danny Phantom could have been improved by either re-writing the episode Memory Blank or at the very least, cutting a couple of the jokes. The base-premise is potentially interesting but it was definitely one of the ones where the show did characters dirty for the sake of jokes.
If I had to leave it mostly as-is, I would at least want to ditch the two random insert jokes where Danny "remembers" using his powers to peep in the girl's locker room. Not only is the base joke a gross, sexist "boys will be boys" gag, it also just feels really jarring and almost out of character for Danny in particular. That's not to say that Danny isn't canonically chauvinistic in other ways at times, but this one doesn't jive with how he reacts to similar situations (and behaviors from Tucker) in other, more character-centric episodes. The abrupt musical punctuation feels more like a sudden insert of Fairly Odd Parents humour and I would say it's probably only there because this kind of "adorkable misogynist" punchline is a common staple in both Butch Hartman and Steve Marmel's comedy styles.
Ideally though, since the main purpose of the episode is to give Danny his marketable DP insignia, I would rather do a full re-write around all three trio members actively trying to design a logo for Phantom. Rather than doing Danny and Tucker dirty by making them into boring butt-monkeys who live empty lives without Sam (and doing Sam dirty by making her seem like a weird stalker who changes Danny's suit without his knowledge or consent) we could have had an episode that let the icon have actual symbolic meaning for the whole of "Team Phantom". It's sad that one if the most iconic symbols of the show ends up being tacked onto a character assassinating goof-story when there were so many ways it could have been great.
🤔 Would you ever want to write something canon if you got the opportunity?
Going to go with a soft no on this one.
For one thing, I believe the best stories happen when someone has a specific story to tell, and at the moment my Deathly Weapons fanfic is the main story I feel the need to make exist. As a mystery nerd, I guess I could maybe do a decent detective story involving Batman or Gotham, but on the other hand I don't think it would be the kind of story Modern DC wants to sell.
From a practical point of view, I also think the things and stories I find the most fascinating within the Danny Phantom fandom would probably be too tonally serious to "fit with the brand" of official canon material. (Although it has been awesome to see some of the Phandom olds getting ascended to the level of official canon creators with the AGiT comics!)
As for Young Justice Animated I think I'm one of several fans who wouldn't mind being tagged-in (or at least a fly on the wall) if DC/Warner Bros ever decided to give it the Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood treatment, kick Greg Weisman's Whedon-worshipping incel ass out the door and let some of the prominent staff who were dropped after Season 1 have a do-over to continue the story they were actually setting up. I think there was a lot of potential in that initial cast, and there were some really cool character-centric standalone episodes that could have come from things like digging into Artemis and Jade having a diegetic connection to Alice In Wonderland while living in the same city as Jervis "Mad Hatter" Tech. But as it stands, I found Weisman's multi-season vandalisation of his colleagues' work to be so egregious that I ended up blocking both the main series tag and his name for the sake of my blood pressure. Look, even when he's not writing like the kind of man who probably fantasises about impregnating his colleague's daughter, the Nostalgia-Critic-level incompetence at basic narrative coherence is just exhausting.
📚 Is there a fanfic or fanfic writer you recommend?
Many!
For today's tasting, I would like to recommend Developmental Milestones and the broader Cor Et Cerebrum series by @audreycritter. Actually, let's just make that a general rec' for all Audreycritter's DC stuff.
I really like their interpretations of the Batfam and Superfam. They do such a good job of capturing the humanity of these characters in their non-cape moments, and I love their approach to dialogue. I think it speaks volumes to the strength of their character-writing that, despite not being a reader who generally goes in for Original Characters, I have become deeply obsessed with their on-call OC Batdoctor Kiran "Dev" Devabhaktuni. He is indeed the light of my life. Developmental Milestones is Dev's focus story but plenty of others put the focus on the canon DC roster if you prefer.
Go enjoy seeing Bruce get yelled at by a deeply affronted, potty-mouthed British Doctor with a heart of gold, though he'll stringently deny it.
Thanks for playing!
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picturejasper20 · 7 months
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What do you think S3 of DP would've been if Dark Danny came back? I heard Steve Marmel originally wanted to bring him back and have the S3 go in a more darker direction.
Yes, there were ideas of bringing Dan Phantom back for the series.
I'm... not fully sure of that. I know that there is one of scene from the Vlad's new lab in Season 3 ¨Eye for an Eye¨ that resembles future alternative Vlad's lab. Hinting that there was some idea of bringing Dan back.
Perhaps it would have had Vlad being a more serious villain with a clear arc that season like he did in season 1 and season 2. Maybe different episodes would have involved him learning about Clockwork and that escalates to the season finale where he accidentally would free Dan. Another possibility is that Dan gets free around the middle of the season and Danny and Vlad have to work together to stop him the episodes that followed.
I believe that the events of D-Stabilized would have happen way earlier in the season and later there would have been an episode of Valerie chasing Plasmius down through out town and maybe in the same episode she learns about Danny being Phantom.
I'm not sure of when Jack and Maddie were originally intended to learn about Danny and Vlad's ghost identities. Maybe Danny was supposed to happen near the start of the season and with Vlad later? As for Danielle, maybe she gets adopted in one of the latest episodes from the season or the season finale.
I think Dan would have done something like he does in ¨A Glitch in Time¨ with absorbing Clockwork and glitching time and space. However, it is very likely he wouldn't have gotten a redemption arc if that was made back then. I don't think the network nor Butch Hartman would have approved of that.
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Someone get Steve marmel on the line i would like to hear his thoughts on the gn
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miravayl · 11 days
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15.03.24
#Mira-Marathon | Danny Phantom
Animation Series Name: Danny Phantom | Season 2 | (2005); Production studios: Nickelodeon Animation Series, Billionfold; Director by: Butch Hartmanz, Wincat Alcala, Gary Conrad, Julie Hashiguchi, Kevin Petrilak, Ken Bruce, Richard Bowman, Sean Dempsey, Daniel de la Vega; Screenwriters: Brian Hogan, Sib Ventress, Marty Isenberg, Bob Boyle, Mark Banker, Mark Drop, Amy Keating Rogers, Kevin Sullivan, David Silverman, Stephen Sustarsic, Ellen Lichtwardt Goodchild, Steve Marmel, George Goodchild, Scott D. Peterson, Butch Hartman, Matt Wayne; Starring: David Kaufman, Grey Griffin, Rickey D'Shon Collins, Rob Paulsen, Kath Soucie; Genres: Science Fiction, Fantasy, Action; Running Time: One series – 22 minutes | All series – 7 hours 20 minutes;
The second season of Danny Phantom continues the emotional and exciting adventures of the main character. It is packed with action, humor and exploration of more complex themes. Character development and raised stakes add depth to the story. While there are slight flaws in some episodes, overall this season is a great addition to the first and will appeal to fans of the series.
My rating: 8/10
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