#systemscringe

[sophieinwonderland]

Debunking r/systemscringe's DID Lies!

For those who aren't aware, r/systemscringe is an ableist hate subreddit, and is one of the greatest sources of misinformation about dissociative disorders and plurality on the internet.

Today, I'd like to go over some of their most prominent excuses for fakeclaiming DID and OSDD systems, and why those reasons are contradicted by actual research by actual psychiatrists.

"Alters Can't Talk To Each Other"

This is one of the most easily-debunked lies I've seen to excuse fakeclaiming. It can take a few different forms. But generally, when a system talks about speaking to their alters, r/systemscringe users will say that it's impossible and that DID doesn't work like that.

This isn't just a little false. It completely contradicts all known research into DID.

Hearing voices of alters is directly mentioned in the DSM-5 as a symptom.

This isn't even uncommon. Voce hearing is more common in DID than in schizophrenia, experienced in about 80% of cases of dissociative disorders.

Now, it does need to be noted that just because 80% do, that doesn't mean it's true of everyone. 20% is still a big number, and systems who can't communicate internally are still valid.

But the fact of the matter is that most systems can communicate this way.

"You Need (Years of) Therapy to be Able to Communicate With Alters"

Failing the first one, another popular claim is that alters can't possibly communicate without therapy. Usually, people will claim this requires "years" of therapy to build communication.

So is this true?

Turns out, not in the slightest. In fact, in a study comparing DID voice hearers to schizophrenic voice hearers, it was found that 90% of the DID voice hearers started hearing voices before the age of 18.

This is in comparison to a Schizophrenic group that consisted of 28% without maltreatment and 38% with maltreatment that started before the age of 18.

Given that DID notoriously takes years to get correctly diagnosed with and most patients aren't diagnosed until adulthood, it should be obvious that most of these 90% didn't have to undergo years of therapy before being able to hear the voices of their alters.

"Alters Can't Be Friends"

Let's be 100% clear here. Dissociative Identity Disorder is absolutely a disorder. It couldn't be diagnosed if it didn't come with some level of distress or impairment. That's a fundamental part of the criteria.

But when that same study I posted above asked the DID and Schizophrenic groups if they would miss the voices if they were gone, a huge 69% of the DID group said they would.

The truth is that DID is more complicated and nuanced than "having alters bad."

Sometimes the distress or impairment has less to do with the other alters and more to do with the other dissociative symptoms, such as the DP/DR and the amnesia.

And sometimes, you can have positive relationships with some alters and negative relationships with others. And yes, there is that 31% who say they wouldn't miss hearing their alters if they no longer heard them. That's valid too.

But this does show that a majority of DID systems do feel a close attachment to the other alters in their systems.

"Systems Can't Control When They Switch"

Like above, this is nuanced. The truth is some systems can't control switching. Others can only control it some of the time. And some have full control.

There has actually been a study on a DID patient voluntarily switching in and MRI machine:

This study literally couldn't have been done were it not possible to voluntarily switch.

"Fictives Aren't Real"

Okay, now let's tackle one of the biggest lies to justify fakeclaiming. Fictional introjects or "Fictives" are alters or headmates based on fictional characters. r/systemscringe and other fakeclaimers love to fakeclaim systems for being fictive heavy or even having any fictives at all.

And like most of r/systemscringe's claims, this is nonsense. Here is one account of fictives from 1988.

Furthermore, in the book The Haunted Self, which is responsible for the Theory of Structural Dissociation of the Personality, one case study is referenced of someone who had many fictives based off of Start Trek characters.

This also serves to debunk other reasons for fakeclaiming I've seen from r/systemscringe. That a system has too many fictive, is all fictives, or that their fictives all come from the same source. Because as we see above, this is a very real documented presentation of dissociative identity disorder.

Closing:

I'm likely not done with this post. I plan to add to this list of misinformation that I've seen repeatedly peddled by the hate subreddit and used to justify attacking systems. There is A LOT there!

But here's the bottom line. r/systemcringe is a hate sub peddling division and bigotry against systems... often for normal system things that have been well-documented in academic literature.

If you're here from r/systemscringe, I'm sure you've seen all or most of the above lies I debunked above posted there. And if you're a system, I would ask you why you would stand by a subreddit that so blatantly spreads misinformation about other systems with the intent of hurting them? With the intent of hurting people like you?

Because if you think that they're your friends, I have watched them turn on systems that joined in with their fakeclaiming so many times, and fakeclaiming fellow members of that subreddit. And I can promise that they will turn on you too.

Click here for my debunk of their claims that endogenic systems are a "conspiracy theory."

#syscourse #pro endo #pro endogenic #sysblr #system stuff #multiplicity #systems #psychiatry #psychology #actually a system #actually plural #system things #science #hate groups #ableism #systemscringe #r/systemscringe #mental illness #neurodivergent #hate group

[steence]

im gonna speak up on this. i never do and ive never mentioned it before, but im gonna do it

dear systemscringe,

stop fucking talking over us. stop trying to "help" us. ive been trying to figure out if ive had this disorder for six years. and i probably would have figured it out by now if every time i ever felt the slightest bit of denial i didnt go on your stupid subreddit and scroll. for. hours.

the only person ive told about my questioning is my girlfriend. and even she has said that ive gotta stop worrying that she'll find me "cringe".

every single time i experience a symptom its immediately followed up by me wondering if it was real or if i was somehow subconsciously faking it. everytime i find something i dont remember making, or posting, or doing. my first thought is "how could i managed to have faked this".

i couldnt.

im more than willing to acknowledge that i might have a different disorder. ive done research. i know everything from schizophrenia to autism can be misdiagnosed as osddid.

but ive been denying my symptoms for so long because of your community. because of your people who have to go out of their way to mock people who are very clearly mentally unwell.

i dont care if you have new mods now. i dont care if you've done the research. i dont care if you have "actual systems" who approve of what youre doing. i do like the possum guy though. possum guy rock on.

and the reason i like the possum guy is because they never say someone's definitely faking. they look through their posts, find misinformation, and correct it.

its very scary to post this. im afraid i'll be judged or mocked or cringed at. but whatever im done being cringe.

#syscourse #did system #plural system #traumagenic system #system stuff #osdd system #sysblr #dissociative system #systemscringe

[halfbloodwarriors]

When will posters on r/fdc and systemscringe ever realize how shitty and ableist they're being 😭😭

Like they police how disorders work for no reason

They even fakeclaim actual diagnosed systems and other disorders/disabilities

They think this is exactly how each single brain will work

When they probably don't even have said disorder/disability

Like bro get over yourself, you're embarrassing and disgusting

Sorry rant over it's just so annoying fjdjdj - Ven 💜

#endo safe #plurality #pro endo #endogenic #plural #system #did #did osdd #osdd #mixed origin system #fdc #fake disorder cringe #systemscringe #systems cringe #tcs.rants #tcs.text

[thexspiral]

Saw this on r/systemscringe so here's the boxes I check off :3 I'm only including the "faking x disorder" ones bc they'd claim that I'm faking them regardless (I am literally diagnosed suck my fat dick)

Diagnosed

Polyfrag

Number names (Only some alters though)

Autistic!!

Cluster B (dx BPD + NPD traits)

Effort into decor (I like things pretty)

Intersex (PCOS)

Subsystems

Programmed

It/Its pronouns

100+ alters (Idk my headcount but its over 100 for sure. Most are just fragments)

Physically disabled (likely hEDS)

Slurs (I'm a faggot)

Teenager

Still diagnosed with DID, stay mad.

#scott rambles #systemscringe #syscringe #fakeclaiming #ramcoa

[quincy-clover]

r/systemscringe discord server rn

#syscourse #plurality #systemscringe #r/systemscringe #good luck finding all of them lmao

[debunkingsystemscringe]

[This post needs image IDs! Feel free to add them]

Start at page 174 on this PDF unless you want to learn more about trans people (which, fair enough!)

This little blurb and all screenshots other than the reddit comment are taken from @/parablesystem on tumblr

#neon mods #moxxi.txt💔 #r/scringe debunking #systemscringe #pro endo #anti endo dni #endo safe #plural blog #plurality #actually plural #anti cringe culture #sysmeds dni

[kipandkandicore]

what we learned on r/systemscringe

so, despite the better judgement of many members of our system, kandi insisted that we spend bats fronting time engaging with people on the systemscringe subreddit. it was agonizing, to say the least, but it was also an eye opening experience for us! here’s what we took away from the conversations we had:

the people on this subreddit claim to know what someone is experiencing more than the person themself. this is a huge matter that encompasses nearly everyone on the subreddit. many claim that they can always tell when someone’s faking, and that there are telltale signs that point to someone faking a disorder. here are some of the things they told us are indicators that someone is faking:

- having lots of headmates (the general consensus was over 50)

- having fictives or introjects

- having a headmate or alter that uses a typing quirk

- posting on tiktok

- using neopronouns

- identifying with the term “plural”

obviously many of these folks don’t have a good grasp on the diversity of plurality and the many ways it can manifest, even for disordered systems and those with clinical diagnoses! even more baffling was the person who told us that those with did/osdd are too busy trying to get medical care to be active online (by this logic, even they must not be a system!).

overall there was very little compassion or understanding for fellow human beings, even ones who have actually been diagnosed! not to mention absolutely no faith in self diagnosis or even trying to figure out what mental health issues one might have at all. countless times we were told that the only way for someone to learn what conditions they have is through a mental health professional; if someone can’t afford to seek professional help, then too bad, they can’t try to research their own symptoms or try to come to understand themselves.

going into this, we knew we would be interacting with people who are ignorant, sad, and angry. their anger was directed at nontraumagenic systems and systems who exhibit strange or “cringey” symptoms. we believe that they, like the anti endos here on tumblr, are taking out their anger on nontraumagenic systems, when that anger should be directed towards negative social stigma surrounding plurality and did/osdd, and the ableist medical institution that makes receiving care so difficult.

these folks (or at least the ones we interacted with) generally have a poor grasp on gender, lgbt issues, mental health awareness, disability, economic class, and plurality as a whole (including the specific disorders that many have been diagnosed with!). it was nearly impossible to engage in any good faith discussion because of the sheer amount of ignorance.

all in all, it’s made us feel much better about getting posted there. the people who get on that subreddit to make fun of systems are obviously quite ignorant and bigoted, not even attempting to try to educate themselves about intersectionality or plurality and how it manifests. it’s basically a circle jerk of systems and singlets who have a lot of hate in their hearts and want to take it out on systems trying to live their authentic lives.

so if you find yourself or someone you know posted onto r/systemscringe, please don’t fret - we’d suggest posting a comment calmly asking the poster to remove the post that was uploaded without your consent. if they refuse to take it down, report the post for harassment. and at the very least, please know that the people on the subreddit who post and interact are for the most part ignorant, unoriginal, and unkind - nothing serious will likely come from being posted on the subreddit, besides a bunch of assholes laughing and congratulating each other on their cruelty.

#syscourse #systemscringe #systemscringe tw #long post

[dissociativediscourse]

reminder that systemscringe isn’t “anti-endo”, it’s anti-system. they don’t give a shit lmao stop lumping them into syscourse like they aren’t just uneducated, chronically online ableists. quit using them as a fleshy strawman to lump in with people who literally just don’t want their trauma disorder and the communities around it to be warped with misinformation and to stay separate from all of the endo shit.

it’s just weird and gross

#syscourse #speaking of online i’ve been offline for a bit #i’ve been really fucking tired lately and it’s been a rough few days #but i’ll be answering the advice asks that i have soon #sorry to everyone who’s waiting #systemscringe

[afuckingsystemsthoughts]

when was ramcoa fake? last i checked it was real and we survived it

systemscringe needs to stop wtf

#ramcoa #systemscringe

[my-systems-cringe]

Hey systemscringe

You literally have people posting publicly about how they’re going into pluralpedia (both the wiki and the server). Isn’t this against rule 4???

#fakedisordercringe #systemscringe #fdc #sc

[sophieinwonderland]

ALERT: r/systemscringe is considering uncensoring names of their victims.

This will not affect me or most people on Tumblr, but I am deeply concerned it could be used to encourage further harassment of people like Aimkid who express being pro-endo publicly, putting a target on their backs for standing up against hate and bigotry.

Additionally, I do want to highlight their fourth criteria, because r/systemscringe has recently taken a hard stance against RAMCOA survivors, pushing a narrative that this type of abuse doesn't exist, and that anyone who claims to have experienced this abuse have been "groomed" into believing this. Further in the post, they make this stance clear.

Their hate sub has now gone all out pushing False Memory Foundation talking points and gaslighting trauma survivors into disbelieving their own memories.

Just to reiterate, I'm not a public figure. I have a measly 1800 followers. I don't meet the proposed criteria to be posted uncensored. Sorry, u/Environmental_Use121, but you still are going to need to censor my name for the time being if you post screenshot of me to your hatesub.

So sad... 😢

#syscourse #pro endo #pro endogenic #sysblr #multiplicity #endogenic #plural #plurality #systems #system #plural system #system stuff #actually plural #actually a system #r/systemscringe #systems cringe #systemscringe #ableism #hate groups #hate group

[valthinksforonce]

I've just seen the petition to remove r/systemscringe from Reddit. I signed it and went over to the subreddit to report the posts that were problematic. All of them are problematic. Help. My wrists.

#help #please #systemscringe #remove systemscringe please reddit

[confretti]

Question to those who tell people that they don't exist/aren't real and to those who seek out that content: Why?

I don't understand why. In my mind it literally changes nothing. I genuinely would like to hear your reasonings. You can send an anonymous ask if you would prefer.

Those who tell people they are faking it or whatever aren't going to change anyone's mind who is "faking it". These people are talking about strangers online who we generally agree are mentally ill in some capacity. Last I checked telling a mentally ill person they don't exist is a dick move. The only thing I can think of is that there are people who just find mentally ill people fun to make fun of (perhaps because of the higher likely hood of getting a reaction?).

And those who seek out that content? Are they just trying to fuck themselves up? Trying to protect against a perceived threat that they feel they can actually do something about? Are people sending it directly to them? Is it because they've had traumatic experiences with these types of people before? (Getting doxxed or stalked is something I've had to deal with irl and even if you go to the cops with the stalker on your tail they won't do shit so I can understand wanting to keep tabs on hateful people)

I'm just grasping at air here. I check in on the dissociative tags a decent amount and occasionally syscourse stuff but that's about it. I like reading about people's thoughts and ideas on multiple personalities because mental illnesses are often difficult to diagnose and our understanding of them has rapidly changed over the years. It's wild to see people taking some stuff as fact rather than seeing a lot of it as useful theories with limited supporting studies and so on. Is it perhaps black and white thinking that causes so many people to be drawn to these tags?

#syscourse #systemscringe

[eternalbastards]

ngl I'd rather get pornbots following me than past abusers posting our system on fucking r/systemscringe literally gonna jump off a roof

#sui tw #tw sui #sui joke #systemscringe #fucking killing myself #what the hell #guys what is wrong with you #go to hell #love #jefferson

[quincy-clover]

tags for reach, antiendos included because y'all aren't safe either (and also selection bias)

#plurality #syscourse #actually plural #sysblr #pro endo #anti endo #place your bets #reddit migration #just when i think i'm out #they pull me back in #r/systemscringe #systemscringe #system cringe

[debunkingsystemscringe]

r/SystemsCringe users always say stuff like "you can't self diagnose" and "only a psychologist can tell you if you have osdd/did"

But then they dismiss endos that are professionally diagnosed and say that they're "lying", that they're "manipulating psychologists into giving them a diagnosis" and "stealing resources from "actual systems""

They say psychologists who support endos should get their license removed and that they "aren't fit to be a psychologist"

They dismiss official studies done on endos by psychologists [ID: by psychologists], saying that they aren't reliable

And most importantly, they believe that they can say that "cringe endos" for sure don't have osdd/did, despite most of them not being psychologists

[ID: And most importantly, they believe that they can say that they can say that "cringe endos" for sure don't have osdd/did, despite most of them not being psychologists]

Make sense, SystemsCringe

-

(I know that this isn't our usual debunking post, but I lost our stylus and for some reason that means that we can't screenshot anything, so enjoy this post instead)

#neon mods #moxxi.txt💔 #syscourse #tw psych #pro endo #anti endo dni #endo safe #plurality #actually plural #plural blog #anti cringe culture #sysmeds dni #r/scringe debunking #systemscringe #syscource