#that's why as much as I hate fanon... it's fascinating

[onewomancitadel]

Fandom really is fascinating as a cultural phenomenon, because basically in real-time you see the way people interact with and transmute storytelling. It obviously suffers as a consequence of both self-consciousness (in pop culture) about 'how storytelling works/you respond to it' - basically the Campbell effect of the monomyth description - and Internet forums changing behaviour and response, but from a folkloric, mythic, anthropological/experimental archaeology perspective, it's amazing.

#stirring the pot #that's why as much as I hate fanon... it's fascinating

[cybernaght]

The fandom echo chamber: fanon, microanalysis and conspiracy brain 

As someone who has been in fandom spaces, on and off, for 20 years, I find some fascinating trends popping up in the last decade that I thought to be fandom-specific but clearly aren’t. So, I would like to do a little examination of where those things come from, how they are engaged with, and what it says about the way we consume media. This is a think piece, of sorts, with my brain being the main source. As such, we will spend some time down the memory lane of a fandom-focused millennial.

This is largely brought about by Good Omens. But it’s also not really about Good Omens at all.

Part one. Fanon.

The way we see characters in any story is always skewed by our very selves. This is a neutral statement, and it does not have a value judgement. It’s simply unavoidable. We recognise aspects of them, love aspects of them, and choose aspects of them to highlight based entirely on our own vision of the universe. 

Recognition comes into this. There is a reason so many protagonists of romance novels have a “blank slate” problem. Even when they do not, we love characters who are like us or versions of us that we would like to be. And when we say “we”, I also mean, “me”. 

(I remember very clearly this realisation hit me after a whole season of Doctor Who with writing which I hated utterly when I questioned why I still clung so incredibly hard to Clara Oswald as my favourite companion. Then I looked at myself in the mirror. Oh. Well. That would do it, wouldn’t it?)

Then, there is projection, and, again, this is a neutral statement. Projection exists, and it is completely normal and, dare I say it, valid way of engaging with — well, anything. Is the character queer? Trans? Neurodivergent? Are they in love? Do they like chocolate? Are they a cat person? Well, yes, if this is what the text says, but if the text does not say anything… You tell me. Please, do tell me. Because, in that moment of projection, they are yours. 

And then, there is fandom osmosis, and that is the most fascinating one of them all, the one that is not very easy to note while you are inside the echo chamber. It’s the way we collectively, consciously or not, make decisions on who or what the characters are, what their relationships are, and what happens to them.  

(Back when I was writing egregiously long Guardian recaps on this blog I actually asked if Shen Wei’s power being learning actually was stated anywhere in the canon of the show. Because I had no idea. I have read and reread dozen of fanfics where that is the case, and at some point through enough repetition, it became reality.)

We are all kind of making our own reality here, aren’t we? 

Back when things were happening in a much less centralised manner - in closed livejournal groups, and forums of all shapes and sizes - I don’t remember there being quite as much universally agreed upon fanon. Frankly, I don’t remember much of universally agreed upon anything. But now, everything is in one place: we have this, and we have AO3, and it’s wonderful, it really is so much easier to navigate, but it’s also one gigantic reality-shifting echo chamber, with blogs, reblogs, trends, and rituals. 

Accessibility plays its part, too. If you were, say, in Life on Mars (UK) fandom between seasons, and you wanted to post your speculation fic, you had to have had an account, and then find and gain access to one of the bigger groups (lifein1973 was my poison, but ymmv), and then, if you feel brave you may post it, but also, you may want to do so from your alt account if you wanted to keep yours separate, and then you would have to go through the whole process again. And I’m not saying that fan creations then were somehow inherently better for it than fan creations now (although Life on Mars Hiatus Era is perhaps a bad example - because some of the Speculation Fic there was breathtaking), but there is something to say about the ease of access that made the fandoms go through a big bang of sorts.

(I mean, come on, I can just come here and post this - and I am certain people will read it, and this blog is a pandemic cope baby about Chinese television for goodness sake.)

The canon transformations that happen in the fandom echo chamber truly are fascinating to witness as someone who is more or less a fandom butterfly. I get into something, float around for a bit, then get into something else and move on. I might come back eventually when the need arises, but I don’t sustain a hiatus mind-state. This means that when I float away and return, I find some very intriguing stuff.

Let’s actually look at Good Omens here. Season two aired, and I found it spectacular in its cosy and anguished way; deliberately and intelligently fanfic-y in its plot building; simple but subversive, and so very tender. (I will have to circle back to this eventually, because, truly, I love how deliberately it takes the tropes and shatters them - it’s glorious). And, to me - a person who read the book, watched the first season, hung around AO3 for a few weeks and moved on - absolutely on-point in terms of characterisation. 

So imagine my surprise when the fandom disagreed so vehemently that there are actual multi-tiered theories on how characters were not in possession of their senses. Nothing there, in my mind, ever contradicted any of the stated text, as it stood. This remained a strange little mystery until I did what I always do when I flutter close to an ongoing fandom.

I loaded AO3 and sorted the existing fic by popularity. And there it was, all there: the actual earth-shattering mutual devotion of the angel and the demon; willingness to Fall; openness and long heart-aching confession speeches. There was all of the fanon surrounding Aziraphale and Crowley, which, to me, read as out of character, and to one for whom they became the reality over the last four years, read as truth. 

Again, only neutral statements here. This is not a bad thing, and neither this is a good thing, this is just something that happens, after a while, especially when there are years for the fandom-born ideas to bounce around and stew. I can’t help but think that so much of what we see as real in spaces such as this one is a chimaera of the actual source and all the collective fan additions which had time and space to grow, change, develop, and inspire, reverberating over and over again, until the echoes fill the entirety of the space. 

Eventually, this chimaera becomes a reality. 

Part two. Microanalysis 

Here are my two suppositions on the matter:

1. Some writers really love breadcrumb storytelling. 

Russel T Davies, for instance, on his run of Doctor Who (and, if you are reading it much later - I do mean the original one), loved that technique for his seasonal arcs. What is a Bad Wolf? Who is Harold Saxon? Well, you can watch very very carefully, make a theory, and see it proven right or wrong by the end of the season. 

Naturally, mystery box writers are all about breadcrumb storytelling: your Losts and your Westworlds are all about giving you snippets to get your brain firing, almost challenging you to figure things out just ahead of the reveal. 

2. We, as humans, love breadcrumbs.

And why wouldn’t we? Breadcrumbs are delicious. They are, however, a seasoning, or a coating. They are not the meal. 

Too much metaphor?

Let’s unpack it and start from the beginning.

Pattern recognition colours every aspect of our lives, and it colours the way we view art to a great extent. I think we truly underestimate how much it’s influenced by our lived experiences.

If you are, broadly speaking, living somewhere in Western/North-Western Europe in the 14th century, and you see a painting in which there is a very very large figure surrounded by some smaller figures and holding really tiny figures, you may know absolutely nothing about who those figures are, but you know that the big figure is the Important One, and the small ones are Less Important Ones, and the tiny ones are In Their Care. You know where your reverence would lie, looking at this picture. And, I imagine, as someone living in the 14th century, you may be inspired to a sense of awe looking at this composition, because in the world you live in, this is how art works. 

If you, on the other hand, watch a piece of recorded media and see the eyes of two characters meet as the violins swell, you know what you are being told at that moment. You don’t have to have a film degree to feel a sort of way when you see a green-tinged pallet used, when cross-cuts use juxtaposing images, or notice where your focus is pulled in any given shot. This stuff - this recognition of patterns - has been trained into us by the simple fact that we live in this time, on this planet, and we have been doing so long enough to have engaged recorded media for a period of time. 

As humans, we notice things. Our brains flare up when they see something they recognise, and then we seek to find other similar details and form a bigger picture. This often happens unconsciously, but sometimes it does not. Sometimes we do it on purpose: finding breadcrumbs in stories is a little bit like solving a mystery. It allows us to stretch that brain muscle that puts two and two together. It makes us feel clever. 

So yes, we love breadcrumbs, and, frankly, quite a lot of storytelling takes advantage of this. It’s very useful for foreshadowing, creating thematic coherence, or introducing narrative parallels and complexity. It’s useful for nudging the viewer into one or the other emotional direction, or to cue them into what will happen in the next moment, or what exactly is the one important detail they should pay attention to.

Because this is something media does intentionally, and something we pick up both consciously and not, it is very hard to know when to stop. We don't really ever know when all of the breadcrumbs have been collected. It becomes very easy to get carried away. There is a very specific kind of pleasure in digging into content frame by frame, soundbite by soundbite, chasing that pleasure of finding. 

But it is almost never breadcrumbs all the way down. They are techniques to help us focus on the main event: the story. I truly believe those who make media want it to reach the widest possible audience, and that includes all of us who like to watch every single thing ever created with our Media Analysis Goggles on and those who are just here to enjoy the twists and turns of the story at the pace offered to them. And I think, sometimes in our chase to collect and understand every little clue we forget that media is not made to just cater for us.

One can call it missing a forest for the trees. But I would hate to mix my metaphors, so let’s call it missing a schnitzel for the breadcrumbs. 

Part three. The Conspiracy Brain. 

If you are there with me, in the midst of the excited frenzy, chasing after all those delicious breadcrumbs, then patterns can grow, merge together, and become all-encompassing theories. Let’s call them conspiracy theories, even though this is not what they truly are.

So, why do we believe in conspiracy theories?

One, Because We Have Been Lied To. 

All conspiracies start with distrust.

If you are in fandom spaces - especially if you are in fandom spaces which revolve around a queer fictional couple - especially-especially if you have been in such spaces for a period of time, you have most certainly been lied to at one point or another. 

We don’t even have to talk about Sherlock - and let’s not do that - but do you remember Merlin? Because I remember Merlin. Specifically, I remember the publicity surrounding the first season, with its weaponised usage of “bromance” and assertions that this whole thing is a love story of sorts, and then the daunting realisation that this was all a stunt, deliberately orchestrated to gather viewership. 

And, because we were lied to in such a deliberate manner for such an extensive period of time, I genuinely believe that it forever altered our pattern recognition habits, because what was this if not encouragement to read into things? Now we are trained to read between the lines or see little cries for help where they might not be. Because we were told, over and over again, that we should.

(Yes, I think we are all existing in these spaces coloured by the trauma of queer-bating. I am, however, looking forward to a world where I can unlearn all of that.)

Two, Cognitive Dissonance.

The chain reaction works a bit like this: the world is wrong - it can’t possibly be wrong by coincidence - this must be on purpose - someone is responsible for it.

Being Lied To is a preamble, but cognitive dissonance is where it all originates. In so many cross-fandom theories I have noticed a four-step process:

A) this is not good

B) this author could not have made a mistake 

C) this must be done on purpose

D) here is why 

(Funny thing is, I have been on the receiving end of the small conspiracy spiral, and it is a very interesting experience. Not relevant to this conversation is the fact that a lot of my job revolves around storytelling. What is relevant is that my hobbies also revolve around storytelling. And one of them is DnD. Now, imagine my genuine shock when one of the players I am currently writing a campaign for noticed a small detail that did not make a logical sense within the complexity of the world, and latched on to it as something clearly indicating some kind of a secret subplot. Their thinking process also went a bit like this: this detail is not a good piece of writing — this DM knows how to tell stories well — this is obviously there on purpose. It was not there on purpose. I created a clumsy shorthand. I erred, in that pesky manner humans tend to. And, seeing this entire thought process recited to me directly in the moment, I felt somewhere between flattered and mortified.)

This whole line of thinking, I think, exists on a knife’s edge between veneration and brutal criticism, relentlessly dissecting everything “wrong”, with a reverent “but this is deliberate” attached to it like a vice, because it is preferable to a simple conclusion that the author let you down, in one way or another. 

Three, Intentionality 

I believe that there is no right or wrong way of engaging with stories, regardless of their medium, and assuming no one gets hurt in the process. While in a strictly academic way, there is a “correct” way of reading (and reading into) media, we here are largely not academics but consumers; consumption is subjective.

However, this all changes when intentionality is ascribed. 

The one I find particularly fascinating is the intentionality of “making it bad on purpose” because, as open-minded as I intend to always be, this just does not happen.

It certainly does not happen in long-form media. Even in the bread-crumb mystery box-type long-form media. 

When television programs underdeliver, they also underperform, and then they get cancelled.

If all the elements of Westworld Season 4 that did not sit together in a completely satisfactory way were written deliberately as some sort of deconstruction for the final season to explore, then it failed because that final season will now never come.

(There will likely never be a Secret Fourth Episode.)

And look, I am not here to refute your theories. Creativity is fun, and theorising is fantastic. 

But, perhaps, when the line of thought ventures into the “bad on purpose” territory, it could be recognised for what it is: disappointment and optimism, attempting to coexist in a single space. And I relate to that, I do, and I am sorry that there is even a need for this line of thinking. It’s always so incredibly disappointing that a creator you believed to be devoid of flaws makes something that does not hit in the way you hoped it would. It’s pretty heartbreaking. 

Unfortunately, people make mistakes. We are all fallible that way. 

Four, Wildfire.

Then, when the crumbs are found, a theory is crafted, and intentionality is ascribed, all that needs to happen is for it to catch on. And hey, what better place for it than this massive hollow funnel that we exist in, where thoughts, ideas and interpretations reverberate so much they become inextricable from the source material in collective consciousness. 

Conspiracy theories create alternate realities, very much like we all do here. 

So where are we now?

I am not here to tell you what is right and what is wrong; what is true, and what is not. We are all entitled to engage with anything we wish, in whichever way we wish to do it. This is not it, at all. 

All I am saying is… listen.

Do you hear that echo? 

I do. 

#fandom thoughts #fanon #good omens #good omens 2 #bbc sherlock #merlin bbc #think piece #it's been years and I still have no idea how to tag #conspiracy theories #fandom content #all fandoms

[theminecraftbee]

so a thing this fandom does that remains FASCINATING to me, as a function of the fact a lot of this fandom is people's first fandom or only current fandom, is just... assume a lot of things it does is a scourge that this fandom has invented or doesn't exist outside of it? or like, is uniquely bad here? and i won't deny that sometimes mcyt fandom is a bit more intense by virtue of numbers, but like...

duo names: confusing fandom-injokes to describe duos and groups tend to be an anime fandom thing specifically for many historical reasons, but they're not uncommon. hey quick--if you haven't been in KHR fandom, can you guess what 1827 is? no? i'll give you a hint: that's actually a ship name. or, ygo fans, tell me the difference between puppyshipping, prideshipping, violetshipping, and rivalshipping. my hint is that they're all kaiba ships and two of them are actually the same ship. good luck!

reducing characters to a specific trait: have you read fic in another fandom before? i would recommend you go do so and come back to me. my example here is "sasuke likes tomatoes", for the record.

common au fanon that's confusing to outsiders: my deep cut here is "when i got into certain tv fandoms i was baffled by the existence of sentinel/guide fics", which is a slightly older tv fandom thing so many of you probably don't know what i'm on about. but trust me: in certain fandoms it's ubiquitous and unless you've watched a completely different tv show you're gonna have to entirely pick it up from reading fic. oh hey, hybrid aus and watcher!grian, nice to see your relative here,

fanon being treated as canon: did you know there's this whole bnha character, naomasa, who is treated as canonically having a lie detector quirk? did you know that, best i can tell, that's not in canon anywhere, it just got echoed through fanon enough that everyone treated it as canon? 'fanon trait becomes so ubiquitous everyone assumes it has to be there' is not a new thing. also, batfamily fans, i have been lead to understand the tim and coffee thing is also this.

characters being treated badly to make a different dynamic look better: the fact we have the term 'character bashing' tells you all you need to know, here. if anything my one complaint on this front isn't even that it's happening--it's that i wish bashing and/or "not [character] friendly" was tagged a little more frequently, haha.

characters being reduced to their family dynamics: tale as old as time. "even the family dynamic thing" yes even that. just because this fandom tended to be particularly ship-adverse in the past didn't mean it didn't do basically the same behaviors as any fandom with shipping did with those dynamics, just gen. and other gen fandoms also do that. yes, down to the "and shipping reduces them to a ship, unlike my gen dynamic, which is very in-character; why can't people just be friends?" thing. some of you have to have been marvel fans right.

characters being reduced to their ships: some of you have to have been marvel fans right.

The Discourse: yeah this is an "actively running show" fandom thing, but also a hiatus fandom thing. ask a homestuck about vriskourse sometime. as much as i hate to say it, it probably made doomsday discourse look cute.

and those are just like... some things i've seen people complain about on my dash recently. idk it just hit me there are probably fans in mcyt fandoms who are assuming that some things (like hybrid aus or duo names) are the kind of things that only happen here, so i thought i'd offer some examples of other places they happen! i also have even more examples if you'd like.

to be clear: this isn't shaming anyone for complaining about any of these things. lord knows i go complain to my friends about it all the time, just the other day i was complaining in the category of 'they keep bashing my guy'. it's more of just... a gentle reminder that maybe we're big, maybe we're loud, maybe we have problems... but these problems aren't always unique.

so uh. we're all suffering together i guess...?

#discourse #<- because. yeah. #this isn't meant to start a discourse this is more me laughing about Fandoms Is The Same #its also why i'm not bringing up the More Serious types of Fandoms Is The Same because i don't want to make light of it #and am instead bringing up the pettier ones #this sparked initially by someone acting like duo names are a this-fandom only phenomenon after years of being a ygo fan #and i was like. oh i've done this song and dance many a time. #and then i was thinking about posts complaining about things like fd and ships and everything else and i was like. oh that's an OLD song #so here. so we all remember sometimes that we all suffer together lol #this isn't a vague of anyone in particular i just constantly waver about making this specific post #anyway back to my usual discourse-free self

[trafficblr-confessions]

Seeing as we have a new winner, I think it's time for me to rant about the one thing I'm a little hater about: I HATE the fanon that only winners remember previous seasons. Especially when they specifically only remember the season they won and all previous ones.

It's so egregiously non-canon - like, I bet there isn't a single episode of the last four seasons where no one references a past season. But that isn't the biggest problem - the main issue is that it's just. So. BORING! All of the players' actions and interactions are so much more fascinating given their actions in previous seasons - like Bdubs' loyalty to the Mounders after his history of betrayal, Mumbo's Secret Life interactions with Grian considering the Southlands, and literally every interaction between Pearl, Scott, and Cleo after Last Life! Not to mention that there's great angst potential in why everyone keeps coming back to something that hurts them. But this boring headcanon gets rid of that in favour of all the overdone amnesia tropes, and I just can't understand why. So that's my little hater rant!

.

#confessions #trafficblr #fandom #little haters

[bugsbenefit]

It’s because some of us can’t stand fanon mike he’s not will or el at the end of the day it’s not our fault the duffers already messed up his character arc long ago. some of us aren’t really interested in mike like that and to be frank I hate how much trauma people are putting on him as if he isn’t a privileged middle class *maybe cis maybe not* kid with insecurities cause he can’t play hero anymore like he used to. Fanon mike is retaliation to whatever we got the last two season from the character and I get it, but why are we keep acting like he’s important to vecna or the plot like that he’s just els boyfriend and wills crush at this point.

You don’t agree with this most likely but idc I’m just here to let this out for those who sympathize with mike. He’s genuinely not a interesting character and if Will wasn’t in love with him I wouldn’t look his way.

Hello? Will solo stan that doesn't get the show in My asks? more likely than you think

i'm sorry but you clearly sent this knowing i wouldn't agree with you and you don't sound like you want a conversation so... why did you send this? was it just to tell me there's people that don't care about Mike? because shockingly, i know that already, the influx in open Mike hate was why everyone doubled down on his character being important and purposeful last week in the first place

i'm genuinely confused on how you're watching the show, though. i mean, at least you're admitting you're only in it for Will so i guess you're aware of your bias and shortcomings?

also lmao sorry but *maybe cis maybe not*?? are you trying to say being queer in the midwest 80s in a small town with a conservative environment wasn't that bad or damaging or worth elaborating on because he's "probably cis" and the family is middle class? hello? newsflash just in, the queers need to stop complaining about how scared they are of coming out and potential consequences of it, if you're cis you're basically getting cishet privileges anyway. i'm really not sure what you meant to say here, you okay? also, aren't All the characters cis??

the vendetta you have against "fanon Mike" is fascinating tbh. what exactly is "fanon Mike" to you, bc the ask suggests it's just Mike with any motivations and 3dimensional writing orrrr? also thank you for telling me that Mike El and Will are separate characters! i almost forgot! i really needed the reminder that these extremely different characters aren't actually the same person or re-skins. thanks for your service, you really showed the evil Mike-sympathizers today o7

but you know what, sure, i'll indulge this a bit, i like talking about the show after all, you don't have to read this ofc, i feel like we're both aware we won't find common ground here

saying that Mike isn't important to the plot is batshit crazy sorry not sorry. not even talking about s5, it's just plain wrong in general and i'm assuming you haven't seen the show in ages

even right from the beginning Mike is established as the first MC and then proceeds to be the main pov for the entirety of s1. in universe Mike is the parties dm unofficial leader and according to Will "heart of the party", out of universe Mike is the only character that has established relationships and evolving conflicts with every single party member and even most adults like Hopper and Joyce. i don't know how you're watching the show to take away that Mike is unimportant and a support character

ST is an ensemble show and Mike is one of the characters, alongside El, Joyce and Will that consistently fills an MC role. (while also being one of the only ones to outright get referred to as one of the mains by actors and writers) where you got the idea from that Mike is a useless character people are stupid to care about is beyond me

if you're genuinely going into s5 hoping for Mike to be as unimportant and off-your-screen as possible i feel like you're setting yourself up for the disappointment of the century. i feel stupid just listing the reasons for why Mike is clearly going to be an important player in s5 because of how obvious they are but oh well

Mike is the first protagonist ever introduced and the final season that wants to go "full circle" Has to finish his arc satisfyingly for it to work

Mike is Will's love interest, a character that's already confirmed to be more of a main on screen again, so focusing on both parties of the ship is necessary to get them together

also Mike is still in a relationship? if he's supposed to go from dating El to suddenly dating a guy that's also his childhood bff you need to elaborate on his feelings. otherwise Will's romance is also going to fall flat and i'm sure you don't want that anon

Mike is part of the people that only came back to town after everything in s4 went down already and part of the group that seems to be the main focus in s5 (see the hill shot)

also just regarding the hill shot, Mike is center stage here (and also between his two "love interests"), totally accidental i'm sure

also the only character Will told about Vecna being alive in s4 and already swore to kill him with Will, also totally not a s5 set up don't worry

and before i go on here, aside from the writers themselves mentioning Mike as a main in multiple interviews David talked about the s5 mains a few days ago and Obviously Mike is up there along with El, Will and Joyce, exactly the people you'd expect

i don't understand how people are trying so hard to claim that there's nothing interesting about Mike to get into, as if even just s4 itself doesn't go out of it's way to set up an excess of potential conflict for s5

obvious relationship drama with El left hanging after an "i love you" monologue which we didn't see a response to yet

feelings for his best friend while he's still dating his gf

the unresolved painting lie

also the sexuality issue that comes with being queer/gay, that's been going back to s1. also made more severe by the show going out of it's way to repeatedly hammer home that the Wheelers are conservative and don't have close relationships with their kids

"you're the heart", speech about leading the party and bringing everyone together. he can't just face into the bg after Will gave him that talk, there needs to be payoff

the whole hellfire thing that's set up with the members names and faces being broadcast as "satanists" and the potential reason for everything that's been going on ON TV, sure that won't have any consequences am i right?

the Vecna plot itself, s4 makes it a point to have Will tell Mike and only Mike about Vecna being alive and the two of them agree to kill him right before the season ends

and that's just the obvious set ups s4 leaves us with, not even touching on the fact that Mike's pov has been withheld for essentially 2 seasons. which is something you can do and ignore, but only if the characters don't have anything going on during that time. Mike meanwhile changes drastically in these two seasons and we never get to learn what actually happened, why he's suddenly so set on growing up and getting gfs in s3, why he's suddenly such an uninterested bf in s4, why he suddenly feels weird about kissing El in the s3 finale after already having made out with her. there's a lot happening and we only see the fall out of it, we don't get Mike's pov. you call it "bad writing" but that's a picture book writing 101 set up, if you don't see that i don't know what to tell you

but i feel like you said everything already, i'm just rambling because i like talking. we probably won't find any common ground here. you only tolerate Mike because you like Will and that's that. not everyone has to care about every aspect of a show, however, i don't get why you're going to other blogs to tell them about your personal preference and about how you don't like one of the MCs. this is an ensemble show, it's not the El-show, and it's not the Will-show either, both of these takes are equally wrong

i don't know what the ideal s5 would look like to you, but if it turned out Will was the only important thing and the only character we focused on it would be absolute ass and horrible writing

Lucas just lost Max and left him with a shit ton of trauma, also Erica's gone through so much too. Max is still lost in a coma. El is distraught over not being able to save Max and now not find her anymore. Dustin just lost Eddie right in front of him too. there's a military presence in Hawkins now, the hellfire club fallout still hasn't happened, and so on and on. (also things like the "Nancy love triangle" still need time to be resolved too)

there's a lot s5 has to focus on to be a good wrap up for all these arcs. and yes, handling Mike's arc well is also part of that, shockingly

also ending this with a: you know people are allowed to like and care about character even if you don't give a shit about that character, right? claiming a central character with a ton of conflict set up isn't interesting is well withing your right and i won't change your mind on that, i'm aware, but going after people for actually caring about the conflicts the show is setting up isn't the move either. not everyone is obligated to share your views, especially when they're this far out there. and i feel like you knew that going in here

#help what a take #no hard feelings anonie we clearly knew there wouldn't be a consensus from the start here lmao #but oh well i'm still kind of surprised to see these takes ngl #ask tag

[transhawks]

I have to agree. I will argue that cwac is well written but it's essentially just different characters with a bnha coat of paint, it was written so many years ago where it could've technically been a direction taken but canon has deviated so far from it no longer resembles anything close to it. The problem begins when some take it as a canon interpretation when it was not leading to infighting and misreading of canon events and character, although this is no fault of the author who I believe is still very talented.

When I first got into the fandom circa 2018, right before Hawks debuted, I was super obsessed with Deku and so CWAC was up my alley. But the moment I started paying attention to the villains, somehow it clearly dawned on me how not only OOC the story was but just how much the author clearly dislikes characters like Shigaraki or Dabi and how much it shows, fairly juvenile-y.

I won't argue that the author isn't talented, but over the years a friend who was also a very Big Writer at the time of CWAC's popularity 2018-ish has told me how discussions about the League went very badly.

The issue still is the fandom. I absolutely blame DFO on CWAC and the other work of the author that the name escapes me. Even now, when I look at DFO dynamics or the weird afo inko obsession they absolutely clearly have elements from the fic, so essentially what CWAC did was establish such a clear fanon that even non-fic readers have taken it as part of the theory.

I mean, again this is more the issue of the fandom in general just clinging on to very old perceptions of characters and plots. I'm going to rant about that below.

I'll use Tomura as an example because what made me dislike CWAC was the handling of him when I started to realize just how rich Horikoshi made Tomura 's character. Some shig-haters never get passed Kamino in what they think of him, and there are the LOV stans who haven't caught up with the idea that actually the MLA arc was *bad* for the League and are still in the viewpoint that the villains are revolutionaries. So there's these spaces where Shigaraki is just seen as a murderous incel versus Shigaraki is Che Guevara incarnate.

And these echo chambers are so removed from each other that very often little nuance penetrates, so you have incredibly established fanon truths that are rarely deviated from and people just stop examining the source material. Then conflict arises when you leave the echo chamber and talk to someone else.

Also worth mentioning is that the fandom echo chambers manage to function as they do by assigning moral values to any "thought crimes" that don't line up with accepted fanon-"canon". Don't think the League are super-radicals who will actually liberate society and create a Marxist utopia? Well you're a capitalist pig who supports cops, bye. You can see it with the very hardcore hero stans who think liking a villain means condoning murder too, "why do you like terrorists?" Or come into my inbox to tell me Jin's murder was justified. Fandom is very good at policing itself into cliques, to the detriment of everyone, I think.

It also, I think, created the situation where people in this fandom genuinely hate the work, keep reading it in bad faith due to those ingrained fanon expectations and preconceptions of what the work should be, and then get more and more resentful as time goes on and their views are not even acknowledged.

Seriously, just look back at the reaction of hero stan Twitter and reddit bros at Himiko's whole fight with Ochako. There was so much hatred of how Himiko was being redeemed.

There are still canon DFO fans. I feel sorry for those who had to look at this chapter and realize that what they've sunk so much time into was not real. Disappointment hurts, man.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me rant. I find it fascinating in an academic sense how so much of fandom was shaped by a fic and I wonder if at some point someone will examine it critically.

#Bnha salt #bnha critical #Asks #fandom criticism

[yuujispinkhair]

Why do you like Sukuna so much?

Let me tell you something: Initially, I HATED him 😂😂 I hated him for how he treated Yuuji and I couldn't understand why people liked him! But two years ago, I wrote a story about him that made me look into his character, and it made me fall in love with my personal fanon version of Sukuna, which gradually led to me also falling in love with canon Sukuna ;)

Sukuna has become my biggest comfort character because I believe he would love me with all my darkness because he has a darkness inside him too. And that is a very comforting thought to me.

Loving Sukuna is to me always this whole thing about light and darkness and loving someone with all their grey shades and in turn also getting loved with all your light and dark too.

As to what made me fall in love with him: I always found him very amusing. He made me laugh so much with his arrogance. The thing is that he absolutely CAN be arrogant since he truly IS that powerful. And that is very attractive to me. I love Sukuna's arrogance because it is justified. I respect him for his power. I find him funny. I love his intelligence. I find him super interesting!

And I love it when we sometimes get glimpses of the man behind the mask. We can see it when Sukuna interacts with others (who aren't Yuuji). He is polite, he gives praise, he encourages others. He is delighted when he meets a challenge. He finds joy when he can fight against a worthy opponent. He seems to enjoy having Uraume around. Sukuna can treat others well, and he does so if he wants. He wants to live his life the way he wants and not follow others' rules or fit in. I like this rebellious side.

I feel soft for him because he is so lonely. He was born with this immense power and was seen as a monster from the start. I always feel soft for the ones who suffer a fate like that. Sukuna never knew affection or love. It is so sad to me that he said he knows love, but then it turned out that he thinks love is when others love him for his power. And therefore, he believes it must make them happy if he kills them using the power that they love so much. Like helloooo? This makes me want to walk up to him and tell him I want to love the man Sukuna and not the big, powerful King of Curses. Like, please let me teach you love, but not like those powerful sorcerers who fought against you, but the regular way!!

Also, personally, I don't really see Sukuna as the big bad villain who the good guys have to win against. Like, what does Sukuna even want? We don't know it. In the Heian flashback we got, it didn't seem like Sukuna was trying to take over the world or something. He looked bored and numb to his surroundings. He attended festivities held for him where people asked him for a good harvest etc.. It seemed that as long as people pleased him, they didn't have to fear an attack from him.

He is very fascinating to me, and I want to find out every little detail about him and his former life!!

[abyssal-ali]

Hi, my friend is asking why there are so many maribat fics, and especially with DamiMari.

Maybe you know about the history of these crossovers in Batman Fandom?

Hi!

(Fellow Maribat fans, feel free to add your own commentary or correct any of my mistakes.)

So @/ozmav created the Damian x Marinette ship in 2018, I think? It was just a fun little crossover that blew up and became really popular. I was not around either of those fandoms at the time, so I'm not sure about all the details.

Daminette was the first Maribat ship created, so it was around the longest, and thus accumulated the most works.

Eventually, the other Bat Boys got their own ship, and now the Maribat (or now, more technically, DCxMLB) fandom has so many more ships and crossovers -not necessarily between the Bat/MLB main characters.

Some rarepair ships (any DCxMLB ship not between one of the four main Bat Boys and Marinette) include Konette (Conner Kent/Superboy and Marinette Dupain-Cheng/Ladybug) and Timdrien (Tim Drake/Red Robin and Adrien Agreste/Chat Noir), to name a couple.

The Maribat fandom also crosses over with multiple fandoms, like DPxDCxMLB or MCUxDCxMLB.

Some pure MLB and DC stans definitely dislike Maribatters, especially during the beginning of the fandom, when the tags for both fandoms were cluttered with DCxMLB content. Now that it's grown so much and has its own tags, I think the hate has calmed down somewhat. (Although, I prefer to keep out of fandom drama, so I may simply have missed the hateful discourse ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.)

Overall, the Maribat fandom has really grown from a crack ship to its own large, well-populated community. There are tags on Ao3 and many discord servers, which runs events such as "Jasonette July" and "Maribat? Get In! [a server] Civil War".

On a personal note:

As to my thoughts on the ships themselves, my favorites are Daminette (Damian Wayne/Robin and Marinette Dupain-Cheng/Ladybug) and Jasonette (Jason Todd/Red Hood and Marinette Dupain-Cheng/Ladybug). It's always fascinating to rotate a character or ship in your head like a rotisserie chicken, considering their Canon and Fanon traits and then exploring them in whatever medium you choose (my medium of choice is writing fanfiction).

For Daminette, the ship you specifically asked about, I am drawn to it because I find the differences between the couple adorable. I personally have a fondness for the Grumpy x Sunshine trope, a Tsundere male lead, and relationship/character growth. (Of course, sometimes it's nice just to read a cute 500 word drabble with no plot, no specific dynamics, and no development, where the couple is just cute and happy.)

I think that is one of the beauties of Maribat. With so many various ships and characters to choose from, there's something for everyone, and we can all bond over belonging to the same fandom(s). Some of us have joined from the MLB side, some from the DC side, some just got dragged in by a friend and have no knowledge of either fandom, and that's okay! With so much to explore in both fandoms, there is constantly new content* being made with love (and tears. And laughter, both evil and joyful. And hornin-).

I've made some of my best friends through this fandom, and I'm proud to be a part of it.

I hope this helps, and I apologize if my ramblings detracted from my answers!💜

*Yes, I am aware of the popular Tropes such as "Akuma Class Trip to Gotham" and "Long-Lost Wayne".

#Maribat #History of Maribat #DCxMLB #MLBxDC

[jennifersminds]

19 20 and 21

you’re mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like…

Bamon. I hate that man and Bonnie deserves so much better but I think, in a vacuum, they're interesting and have great chemistry. It's the only relationship Damon has that has any real potential for value and growth in my opinion. Ironically and unfortunately I think that's because of jplecs blatant racism. Because she refused to acknowledge Bonnie as a romantic prospect for anyone of importance to the fandom she accidentally built a relationship between Bonnie and Damon that existed outside of Damon's usual pattern of pinning all his insecurities on a relationship and using his romantic interest as some kind of moral obligation.

that being said fuck him. fuck his soul. wish she burnt him alive but the fics slap and they're hot together.

part of canon you found tedious or boring

the season five doppelganger development. Katherine, Elena, and Tatia are SO FUCKING FASCINATING. The endless cycle of being sacrificed for a male character's growth (Tatia to Elijah, Katherine to Klaus and the Salvatores, and Elena to all of them) and the way the memory of each of them influences and affects the way the future doppelganger is treated and viewed,,,, miraculous and underappreciated.

They're a tragedy that's already been written, specifically for Elena and Katherine, their fates are sealed the second they're born, and the way each of them chooses to fight it. (Elena's technique being determined by Katherines before her). It's so cool. And also something I think a lot of fanon refuses to acknowledge. Not just stelenas (refusing to acknowledge that Katherine was his main motivator for pursuing Elena) or delenas (refusing to acknowledge the effect Katherine and Damon's relationship had on his mistreatment of Elena) but I think Elejah's don't address it enough either. Elijah (imo) has a lot of unjustified anger towards Katherine and (while I understand why we don't always get into it because it's a lot) I think it's something it would be really fun to discuss how that affects his treatment of Elena and how she'd feel about it in a self-aware post-Salvatore world.

so yeah long way of saying the doppelgangers were interesting enough and I found the whole Silas/Stefen thing to be a really cheap uncreative way of derailing that when there was so much to explore already.

part of canon you think is overhyped

The love triangle. Damon and Stefan in general. I don't care about them or their pain. I think Damon's dad should have hit him more.

give me Bonnie's backstory, where the fuck is her dad? has she ever had a pet? what's her favourite movie? forty minutes of her painting a wall, idc. anything.

thank you so much for the ask @sevensistersofsussex

choose violence ask game

#the vampire diaries #elena gilbert #elejah #elijah mikaelson #tvd #asks <3 #bonnie bennet #somehow both pro and anti bamon #katherine pierce #tatia #kelena

[yvtro]

imo the more interesting tim&jason dynamic /is/ the "they're only like 2 years apart" one (esp wrt "jason was tim's robin"? seems (to me) to have more potential if it's like "this kid who is my age is doing cool shit, I want to do cool shit like them, because they're my age and that hits close to home") personally am genuinely unsure why "tim is a poor little meow meow" seems to be more popular despite how it fucks both their characterizations lol

i will answer to both of you here, as it's related to the same post!

just in case i want to say that there's plenty of aspects of tim's storyline that have lots of potential. and there certainly could be an interesting one involving jason too. alas.

i think in general fanon tim is just a poor little meow meow. it's really ironic how when he was introduced, the writers wanted to make him more "likable" than jay, and they didn't want batman to play a full-time dad, so in place of jay's insecurity and need for parental love tim gets two living parents and is, for the most part, self-assured. there's some canon progression which disturbs this status quo of course, but it's fanon that turned his storyline into one about neglect.

so apparently all writers should have done to make the new robin a fan favourite was keeping jason's struggles and just making tim wealthy. real "what's cool when you're rich but trash when you're poor?" moment. having attachment issues, apparently.

and don't get me wrong, there is place for meta about tim's parents being neglectful, even if the creators originally wanted to achieve the opposite. but i find the extent to which fanon pushes this idea and makes it his sole source of personality a bit astonishing, especially that canon tim, for the most part, doesn't share any of these issues. and personally, his initial motivations that stem from his fascination with vigilantism seem much more appealing to me.

as you said: "this kid who is my age is doing cool shit, I want to do cool shit like them, because they're my age and that hits close to home." maybe it's a bit simplified, but tim being just a child who gets himself into something much bigger than himself without really realising the consequences – and essentially both traumatising himself as a result (while also finding family, one does not exclude another) is a pretty fascinating concept.

and like. canon tim is plenty weird about jason, okay. so i think their confrontation at some point would be interesting. and probably awkward.

btw we don't actually get to see jason and tim's first interactions after jay's resurrection. i said it before, but for christ's sake, the teen titans tower incident is no longer canon, and for a good reason, especially that in that era jason is portrayed as having a psychotic break and tim hates his guts and calls him deranged?

how do you derive an enemy to caretaker trope from this is beyond me tbh. it sounds good in theory, right, because it refers to jay's inherent kindness, but you do have to make them "enemies" in the first place, or at least jason the aggressor – which you need to follow the ableist storyline for (i really doubt jason would actually care about tim much if he was more stable, and he definitely wouldn't want to hurt him), and all i can ask is: why. find something new.

i don't know, if there's any actually interesting tim & jason fanfics that don't follow these cliches you should let me know, because the majority of the tag definitely isn't for me.

#answered #okay i will tag it as #anti tim drake #just in case #jason todd #dc comics

[jamsofdeath0]

It's so hard being a Danny phantom fan that like actually enjoys Danny phantom and likes the characters for what they are. it's just knowing chewing on just about everything while going hewouldnotsaythathewouldnotsaythathewouldnotsaythat he would not fucking say that. No hate to whatever your making but so many things baked into common fanon is so ooc. Ghost king Danny. Ok sure I can get behind him holding the title. (Depending on the gk lore) But he has to be screaming kicking fighting the whole way. He'd fucking hate that shit. And like protection obsession. Danny ain't DNA bound to be a hero or whatever. He REGULARLY tries to quit later down the story. He just feels obligated to help because he can. It's why in the final episode he tries to get rid of his powers. If he isn't a half ghost he isn't obligated to help anymore. He's got this whole Spider-Man "great power great responsibility" thing going on.

And Sam. Lots of people like to write Sam as if she's some perfect activist when a lot of the things she does are pretty performative. She's got patented 2000s "not like other girls better than you" misogyny going on. She's VERY judgmental. She's vegan, and the annoying kind. Don't get me wrong she THINKS she's helping and in the right but by collage she's gonna look back at herself and cringe hard. People also tend to write out her jealousy.

And look I know a lot of people change so much about her because she's written like that because of misogyny but she's not that unrealistic of a character. She feels like an alt teen girl from that era. A lot of them were like that. Sure it's because THEY had a bunch of internalized misogyny but that doesn't change the fact it's how it was.

Jazz is another character that gets pretty flanderized. She's only two years older than Danny for a start. She didn't "raise" him while their parents were too busy doing other nonsense. She is a sixteen y/o book worm know it all that's acting like she's an adult. She thinks she's the smartest in the room, and tbf around other kids she tends to at least be the book smartest in the room. But she is just a kid. A kid who thinks bad boys are hot, brains are fascinating, and that she knows what's best for everyone. Her parents never put it on her to raise Danny. She put that on herself. She sees looking out for him as one of her responsibilities.

People only really only tend to write out Tucker being a creep. You know what? I can kind of get behind that. It's really one of the most uncomfortable gags in the show.

Idk it's just weird. Do y'all just not like dp? Do you only like the idea of it? I adore these characters. Their flaws to me make them do much more interesting.

#danny phantom

[cinnamon-phrog]

Hi! I don’t really understand self shipping. But I am fascinated.

What drew/draws you to it?

I have thought about it for a good while and my brain cannot fathom it, so I am curious as to what you find so nice about it. It’s a really cool idea.

Keep being awesome 😎

This ask made me think a lot. I think my answer lies not in what draws it to me but what it draws me towards.

I’d selfshipped since I was probably seven, when I lived with my parents and wasn’t able to go anywhere or experience the world very well at all.

Except when I’d insert myself into the movies and shows I loved. I think it’s a pretty common thing with selfshippers, to selfship without knowing what it was.

When I moved into foster care I was scared, but drawing my silly cringe things [without even having been exposed to the internet, mind you. I had no idea that that was what I was doing, it was just fun.] Helped a lot, until I found out about cringe culture, and I became afraid to do that by twelve.

Not too long later [two years] I discovered D/HMIS, which set of a huge chain of events that led to me taking comfort in the trio and realize that not only did I love them, but that I’m worth that love, too. I did some dumb shit involving me bending over backwards for others’ expectations and then bursting out my frustrations unhealthily. It wasn’t a good look. My love for them helped me get over that, I had to really push myself to love them, though. Since I was embarrassed to feel that deeply, more than I ever did as a small child.

I felt bad to ship with Yellow for reasons due to what most fanon depicted him to be versus how I saw him personally, I felt bad to ship with Red and Duck because they were semi-canonically canon together and also because Red was SUCH a hot commodity and I didn’t want to seem that Down Bad, and I was scared to selfship with Duck because I didn’t want to seem like I was trying to get back at someone in my past who adored him when really they don’t own him, neither do I, I can enjoy things other people used to without feeling guilty. Because I wasn't loving him to be petty, or loving Yellow to be different, or loving Red because of his popularity, [he isn't as much anymore I don't think] but because I simply love them and who they are. They make me laugh.

To love something without the fear of being made fun of or villainised, simply just LOVING is a big thing for me. And the more I love them the braver I feel, and that’s what they draw me towards.

And that determination to keep loving them BECAUSE of everything and all I’d persevered for [which doesn’t seem like much but for me it was big] I had the courage to leave my bad situation and live semi-independently when I hadn’t before.

It’s the thought that they’d be proud of me that keeps me going. They draw me to a better future for myself. They have faults, self-destructive tendencies, as did I. I still do. But I work through it because they wouldn’t want me to hate themselves so much as I don’t want them to hate themselves.

And if I ever lost that well. I’d be sad but not for long. Because the love I had for them I’d carry onwards, even if I couldn’t love them anymore, because terror and love are the same for me. And yet the love I have and choose to feel outweighs the terror of losing them.

And after that terror I have these wonderful ‘fluffy’ days of thinking about them. Wanting to comfort them, having them comfort me [as best as they can, I think they’d at least try their best]. Because they’ve spent their lives trapped in a house where people yelled at them and gave them lessons that didn’t make sense and endless pain for no reason, I understand how that feels similarly. Why they feel so aimless and unable to express themselves. Why they lash out at the first sign of freedom because being locked away is all they really know. I left my old life because if they couldn't, I could.. I live for them on the slight chance that they'd be proud of me.

Same for all my f/o’s, but I used the trio to explain because they’re my best example.

So what draws me to selfshipping is the acceptance of myself and what I enjoy, and courage to explore more of that.

#f/o #fictional other #selfship #selfshipper #selfshipping #🦆📋 #🎨🌻 #👄🍝 #🚦🏠

[matt0044]

There’s been a recurring tread in Fandom Discouse(TM) or Fanwank for those who tell it like it is. And it revolves around Redemption Arcs.

These type of stories have been the most controversial on various levels for good reasons. It often comes down to how we may identify with or project onto the character in question and the discomfort it may bring.

Specifically in regards to characters that may hit too close to home. Characters who are very much perpetrators of conflict and violence rather than victims. They hurt others for their gain be they sociopathic or just apathetic to what they wrought.

Many have dealt with these precise people in their lives and will thus have very strong words to say when a character of similar attributes appears to be turning themselves around. There will be some deliberation over how “earned” it felt on a narrative level but either way, they are on a better path in life.

For these aforementioned fans among others, it’s a difficult pill to swallow… if not one they nearly choke on. In their eyes, this character is barely even human but a monster in every sense of the word. They’ve hurt characters they love. They’ve either enjoyed it or brushed it off in indifference.

Where does Chloe factor into this? Well… it fascinates me that we got a circle of fandom that advocates for a character, a female character no less, and their could’ve-been development from Mandy but crossing way more lines.

She’s the inciting incidents for nearly every Akuma in Season 1 and is almost intentional about it. While Season 2 would humanize her and show a likely source of her behavior, I have seen more characters get shit for far less and they would rarely mean the things they say or do when in a mood.

There’s also the, um, gender thing. It have especially been my and others observations that a female character is likely to have a borderline hate campaign against them for either exhibiting a trait that male characters will get a pass for or just… making a mistake.

My Adventures With Superman subverted the very long standing secret identity dynamic Clark had with Lois Lane by having the aspiring journalist put the pieces together fast.

Her reaction to Clark not being straight with her was hardly terribly welcoming, especially given her father being deceptive with her. The Fandom’s reaction was extra less welcoming and overlooked her possible complexes over liars in favor of her behavior.

So… why is Chloe somehow exempt? There are likely multiple factor but I think there's a large one that's gone underexamined.

Obviously there's the feeling of being cheated out of a redemption storyline that Season 2 seemed to kick start. Yet it's not like Season 3 just had her be mean again out of the blue. Chloe is still very much a brat even if Despair Bear, Zombizou and her Queen Bee trilogy had her take a good look at herself.

Old habits die hard. Hawk Moth just took the time in Season 3 to gradually give said habits a clean bill of health.

My observations of Fandom Culture at large leads me to feel like Chloe's case is about less what did happen and was undone but more like what seemed to be happening but didn't. Fandom loves the hypothetical. The theories, the speculation. A lot of it is very personalized even when fans come together to pitch their own takes.

As such, there's a personal investment factor in these malleable concepts that's distinct from engaging in the hardwared canon. It's a sandbox where the material you're working with can be molded into what suits you. Canon can be too often, "Here it is: take it or leave it." Fanon is more accomadating to those who might want to change things.

Bare in mind, I'm not trying to advocate for one or the other here. Fanon depends on canon, warts and all, and a Fandom can't flourish without it period. But sometimes we mistake Fanon for what should happen and ignore the innate placeholder status they have. Thus Canon is seen as an intrusion when, well, it's just the show itself.

Another reason may be because for all the grouching about redemption arcs, we've... rarely seen such backslide let alone one that sticks considerably. We've had our Majin Vegetas and Book 2 Finale!Zukos but rarely have we (outside of specific circumstances and specific mediums) had a redemption arc reverse course.

As such, many seem keen to ignore how organic the journey from Queen Bee to Miracle Queen really was. Her insistence of joining the fray with Ladybug, her tendency to shoot her mouth with a sharp tongue to boot returning more like in Stormy Weather 2, making a Bee Signal of all things.

The ground work was laid for Queen Wasp's return and the soil was beyond fertile. Thus her villain arc for Season 4 and 5 involves tripling down on her banal evil from brainstorming Marinette's fall, getting evilized intentionally and keeping Sabrina from sleeping (boy howdy, was Chloe lucky she didn't go to her dad, A police officer :P).

Now... nobody needs to like this or stop disliking what they dislike. It just would be nice if considering other perspectives and looking beyond one's expectations was encouraged.

#redemption #redemption arcs #chloe bourgeois #miraculous ladybug #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #miraculous lb #miraculous meta #mlb #mlb fandom #fanon #canon #meta analysis #fandom analysis #queen bee #vesperia #miracle queen #queen mayor #penalteam #antibug

[restlessreveries]

choosing violence: 8, 9, 10, 19

Oh boy, alright let's see...

I think I'm gonna have to roll 8 & 10 into the same response MOSTLY because I don't really know what to put on 8 exactly but I also feel like 10 kinda applies to it?

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about/10. worst part of fanon

BUT YEAH, it's the fandom's insistence that Sol is miserable/bored/apathetic and desperate to get out of the time loop (or whatever you call this not-loop arrangement). I swear, if I see another fic that has Sol feeling like shit because of the time loop thing I'm going to... not really do anything. Except maybe scream really loudly internally.

It's not like they're re-watching the same movie a thousand times and we only really see a small sample of the infinite possibilities they have on hand, but people are so fond of the despair over time loop thing and I kinda hate it.

9. worst part of canon

That we don't get a "I was a 20-something exocolonist" Continuation? No? That's cheating? Okay, let's see...

This is actually a tough one 'cause I've got several small annoyances but I think the big one is that no matter what you do, nobody will believe Sol about the visions or aliens (Like FFS even Dys can be the person who triggers Sol getting sent to be lobotomized). And special shoutout to that one event on the ridge where Utopia is more willing to believe that Dys has a secret older brother (SHE SPENT 20 YEARS ON THAT SAME SHIP! D8<) than that Sol is telling the truth about Sym being an alien. And then when you talk to the council at the end they go "Yeah no, lol we knew there was an alien presence out there". I get that Sol probably does a lot of faulty predictions too, but I just wish there was a golden route where people started trusting them if you somehow managed to mysteriously be in the right place at the right time to keep saving people's lives. Or something.

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

Vace would be the easy answer here but I'm actually not picking him for this. No, I'm gonna pick the other guy who I don't exactly like as as much as I kind of appreciate in terms of writing and find fascinating.

It's Lum.

It took me many months to actually start thinking about this guy more than writing him off as comically inept space dictator-wannabe. But when you take a step back he's actually kind of interesting. I think I'll put why under a readmore tho, 'cause while my earlier responses has some spoilers this goes into more important events.

Basically, I think Lum is interesting because he looks so dumb and inept and comically evil at first glance. But once you learn about the earth fleet, things start to look a bit differently.

Him being so rough with Utopia isn't just him being over the top evil for the sake of it. He's on a major time limit to get this planet into what the earth fleet considers shape, (with the "or else" option being them glassing the place) and Utopia confronts him in front of the entire colony, questioning his leadership and putting him on the spot. So he thinks and acts fast and brutally to force things back under his control 'cause he really can't risk losing that.

And when you think about it, a lot of his decisions are in the same line. Poorly thought out ways to handle the immense pressure he's under. He's not well suited for this, was probably never taught to handle these kind of decisions. The Helios supposedly got there in about 15 years and Lum is listed at 25 at the start of the game (30 on arrival), so he got onboard of that military ship when he was 15, grew up with a very limited worldview and was suddenly put in command of the entire operation. (he was like, second in command of communications before?) With the earth fleet threat breathing down his neck.

This isn't me excusing his behavior by the way. He did things that range from extremely shitty to horrifying. But part of me can't stop thinking about how much more chill he seems if he gets kicked from the leadership role, and that one Glow attack where he recklessly used himself as bait to lure the two faceless.

Basically, if Vace is the guy I want to put in a hamster ball and kick down the stairs. Lum is the guy I'd like to put by a pool and give a gym membership to in the peace ending, and then come back ten years later to see if he's turned into the himbo I suspect he could potentially be.

#Should I put this in the main tag? #Yeah why not we're choosing violence today #Exocolonist #Iwatex #What's the worst that could happen anyway #Inb4 I am excommunicated from the fandom

[smoochinforabruisin]

kish n louie plot u say????? 👀👀👀

oh you betcha babey

its so fuckign much (3332 words lol) so itll be under the cut!!!

i couldnt figure out a way to write this that would be non-pikmin knower friendly sorry @askthelovenest you will probably not get this that much or have to google a lot but i highly appreciate your itnerest <333

Most of this is written in broader strokes but scenes that I imagine in detail will be written in full detail okay you just have to accept the varying text density here

Allright so this cute little story would begin at some point in between the many many castaways that the pikmin 4 protagonist rescues (I’m just gonna use the name Pom for them since that’s the fanon name I think). They also rescue Kish from a cave at some point.

Back at the S.S. Shepard, Kish expresses fascination with Oatchi’s great skills and training and tells Pom that if they ever wanted to discuss space dogs and their training, she’s the man! But of course there’s already someone to talk to about space dogs for Pom, that being Captain Shepard herself.

Like most of the castaways with side quests that Pom rescues, Kish is stuck just kind of hanging around the S.S. Shepard. He gets frustrated with this fairly quickly but can understand why they’re stuck here right now. There’s still people to rescue and going out there on her own would be downright suicide. The boredom still gnaws away at him but it just be like that she guesses.

Enter the bastard, Louie. Pikmin 4’s story wraps up, Louie is apprehended after the Ancient Sirehound Battle, and now he, much like the other people rescued by (one member of) the rescue corps is just standing around the S.S. Shepard, handing out side quests to Pom. Kish has been watching with increasing disdain as Pom gets to do all the jobs and activities and exciting stuff. He’s growing more and more irate about it by the day.

Simultaneously, Kish has noticed a LOT of malice towards Louie from the rescue corps, ever since he’s shown up. They have precious little kind things to say about him and their faces always contort in mild to severe contempt when they talk to or about him. Louie himself doesn’t seem like he notices. Or if he does, he’s just not pointing it out. Or showing it. At all. Kish has always been a big observer, but she can’t quite get a read on Louie just by watching him. His aloof nature is kind of fascinating to her. Surely, there’s a lot more going on inside that head of his than he’s showing… how intriguing.

One morning, very shortly after Louie came to the S.S. Shepard, Kish watches with a frankly inappropriate death glare, as Pom walks around the landing space and collects side quests, including the Fit For A Feast side-quest from Louie. Though, Kish notices a lack of interest from Pom towards this quest, complete with an eye-roll when Louie can’t remember the name of the cave he’d seen Dwarf Bulborbs in.

As the S.S. Beagle flies off towards the day’s expedition goal and just about everyone cheers it on and wishes it well, Kish is standing on the sidelines close to Louie with crossed arms and a scowl.

“This is literally fucking ridiculous,” she blurts out, “We’re really all just standing around with our thumbs up our asses while one rescue corps member goes out and does everything out there. Like…. Even you guys?” he turns towards Louie and gestures towards Olimar who is standing further away. “Aren’t you two like, experienced in this stuff? With the data logs and stuff you’ve done here already and all that? What are you asking Pom for food for when you can just go out and get it yourself? At least it’s something to do!”

Louie is silent for a second, a trait Kish will grow used to very soon, before he replies: “I’m not allowed to leave the Shepard.”

“What?” Kish says, “Why not?”

Louie shrugs silently. “Too much of a troublemaker, they said.”

“Well… I GUESS that makes sense but like… I just fucking hate standing around out here all day!” “Me too.” “If there was at least something to do at the Shep-what’d you say?”

Kish turns towards Louie again, who tilts his head.

“I hate standing around this ship all day. It’s literally fucking ridiculous for one kid to do everything on this planet.” Louie says.

Kish isn't sure why exactly he’s surprised to hear Louie express distaste for doing nothing all day (and in her own words too). He just seemed like he’d be perfectly content with it, she supposes. But this is an opportunity. A connection. A chance… Because with Louie’s skills, going out into the wilderness is already way less scary. But he’s still not allowed to leave. What to do, what to do…

Kish notices a tiny path in between some bushes that one could squeeze through without making any sounds. Everyone who had gathered around the S.S. Beagle is slowly dispersing, meaning the bustling crowd could be their cover to get there. It’s the perfect chance.

“Hey, come here.” Kish silently commands, not really giving Louie much of a choice in the matter as she grabs his sleeve and drags him through the crowd expertly. Even though Louie’s being dragged along, he is bobbing and weaving past bodies with grace almost befitting of a dance.

This red gal, whoever he is, must be really skilled at moving through crowds completely undetected. Much like Louie himself, he muses. As the two go from dodging people to dodging leaves, he wonders if this guy has also experienced the pain of being isolated from a group and repeatedly mocked. If she’s also decided to stick to quietly blending in as much as possible, as a social survival strategy of sorts. To put it another way, he’s impressed. But he’s also still confused.

“Where are we going?” Louie asks eventually.

“Uh, I’m not sure…” Kish admits, “but surely, there’s got to be something for you to eat around here. I guess we’re, uh, scouting out the area? Scavenging, maybe?”

“Scavenging… Sounds right.” Louie says. He’s pretty pleased to have something to do, and he guesses if he had to bring someone along, an apparent quick thinker like this is one of the better choices. Better than all the people back there hating him anyways.

Kish lets go of Louie’s arm and the two of them walk silently towards the other end of the bush.

“What’s your name?” Louie asks suddenly.

“Hm? Oh right, we never formally introduced ourselves to each other. I’m Kish, a space dog trainer from Karut.” Kish says. Normally, he’d go for the handshake and everything, but she has a feeling Louie wouldn’t much care for it. “And you’re, well, Louie yeah I heard that much. But is there anything else you wanna introduce yourself with?”

Louie thinks to himself for a few seconds before he replies, “I’m from Hocotate. Working for Hocotate Freight. Our boss sucks. The company is probably going to go bankrupt soon.”

“That all you can think of to describe yourself?” Kish asks.

“It’s all you said about yourself.” Louie responds.

At that, Kish actually has to laugh a little.

“Yeah, you’re right. Okay fair enough. No need to dive that deep on a stranger yet.” Kish says. A part of him is hoping, quite strongly even, that in time, Louie won’t be a stranger anymore.

Kish and Louie end up having a pretty successful day together. They find an onion not too long into their journey and Kish gets to closely inspect the red pikmin within it, as they help the two collect some fruits. They also find some Skitter Leaves and Sheargrubs which Louie assured Kish are easy to take down and totally delicious when prepared correctly.

Kish quickly notices Louie’s passion and creativity with cooking, which she frankly finds heart-warming. That’s just an adorable hobby, not to mention incredibly impressive to someone who can barely even follow instructions for microwave dishes properly.

Meanwhile, Louie is impressed by Kish’s sharp eye. She can spot fruits easily, even if they’re almost completely hidden in bushes, and he can tell that something is a Skitter Leaf instead of a regular leaf before Louie’s even registered that there are leaves on the ground.

Their teamwork isn’t perfect per se. Their communicative abilties leave a lot to be desired. But for a duo that’s formed less than a day ago, they’re working together shockingly well.

Just a few hours before nightfall, the two walk back to the S.S. Shepard, where they are immediately met by a furious rescue corps team (and a concerned Olimar). Accusations start flying right away; that Louie was trying to run away and start causing problems again, that he had kidnapped Kish for some reason, that he was going to undo everything the rescue corps had worked so hard to accomplish on this mission. Louie is long since used to people assuming the worst about him so he just silently lets them all ramble on. But just as he is about to zone out, angry yelling erupts from right beside him.

Kish is nothing short of furious at the accusations that are being flung towards Louie with barely any justification. She yells at all the rescue corps members about how hard they’re blowing things out of proportion and how cruel they are towards someone who could have done much, MUCH worse to them all. His lengthy tirade shuts the team down again, as they have no choice but to agree that Louie’s just collected food in the nearby area and hasn’t done anything explicitly wrong or harmful today. Olimar even joins in and defends Louie by pointing out that he’s kept Kish safe throughout the day. Louie is silent throughout this but he seems somewhat shocked by the defence.

Later that night, everyone is served dinner in the S.S. Shepard while Louie cooks his own meal in the Dolphin’s tiny little kitchen. He’s deep in thought about the day he’s had and the friend he seems to have made, when there’s a knock at the ship’s door. Olimar had informed Kish that Louie isn’t allowed inside the Shepard and she’s immediately made his way to the small old ship. When Louie points out that Kish doesn’t have any food now he replies that he’s not eating the rations of some “petty assholes” (in reality she had forgotten her plate in the Shepard when he stormed out of the cafeteria). Louie has easily cooked enough for more than just one person, and he likes Kish enough, so he offers him a plate of his self-made meal of the day. Kish is honestly surprised but thankful nonetheless, so the two share a delicious meal together and talk a bit more. Well… Kish talks. A lot. Louie mostly listens, but he likes doing that. He likes Kish.

Louie and Kish’s ritual of going out to collect food continues on after Olimar puts in a good word for Louie (and pulls him aside once to tell him “You have one more chance here. Don’t blow it.”)

The two of them grow closer and closer as they keep going out. Befriending people is a lot easier when they are your age, Louie finds. At least if those people are also not judgemental over every mistake you make. Louie and Kish bond over how both of them have poor impulse control and do some nasty things sometimes. They agree that they won’t cruelly judge each other while simultaneously holding each other back where they can. Louie can hardly wrap his head around how wonderful it feels to have found someone like Kish. He might be catching some feelings other than friendly appreciateon. Uh oh…

Eventually, Kish spills the beans on why he even came to PNF-404. It was all because of Moss, the space dog Olimar had spoken of in his S.O.S. message. She had been hoping there would be more strange and rare breeds of space dogs on this planet. And while the Bulborbs were strikingly similar to bulb-dogs from Hocotate, he was still disappointed that she couldn’t find anything friendly. Louie quickly realizes he knows exactly how to undo that disappointment, and the next time him and Kish go out, he leads her to the Ancient Sirehound (do not ask me how he knows where to find it, he just does OK). Kish is delighted to see such a big and amicable dog, and even moreso when she sees it run up to Louie and slobber all over his entire suit and helmet. The beast loves that guy, and it’s just the sweetest thing.

Gosh… Louie’s an intriguing guy, he’s great at cooking AND he’s good with animals… Oh… Oh dear…that’s a crush blooming isn’t it… Oh boy.

One night, Kish talks about his past a bit. He had a passion for art that had been tested brutally by an art school that valued market and corporate appeal far over actual artistry. Getting that bachelor was gruelling and finding work in art that wasn’t completely demoralizing was close to impossible. So Kish put his skills with space dogs to use instead and started dog-sitting and offering training sessions for money. It pays the bills just fine and it’s fun enough, but it’s hard not to feel disappointed after the way chasing her dreams turned out.

Louie can empathise with that and tells Kish about how he’s always wanted to become a great chef with his own cooking show, but when he briefly joined a culinary school on Hocotate, it was an exclusively vegetarian school, and he was ostracised even worse than in his old schools (“And those were places where I’d regularly get asked in earnest if I was going to eat the other kids.” “What the hell that’s so fucked up???”).

This newfound connection makes Kish like Louie even more. She’s starting to really understand the guy. That impression of a mysterious quiet wallflower is giving way to a young man who’s kind in his own ways but struggles with empathy, and who’s trying to figure out his place in a world that he doesn’t quite seem to fit into. It’s relatable. It’s compelling. He’s compelling. …That crush is only going to get worse, huh.

Some hiccups come up here and there when they are working together. Most notably an ever growing curiosity for the animals of PNF-404 from Kish that’s almost lead him to have his leg gnawed off by a bulborb a few times. Luckily Louie has quick reflexes when it comes to protecting people, and manages to drag Kish away from the beasts just in time.

It also turns out that Kish is god-awful at aiming and throwing pikmin, and when the two tried to work together to slay a Dwarf Bulborb, Kish missed just about all her throws. When told about this issue, Olimar suggests giving him winged pikmin instead, which could correct for missed throws while in the air. That turns out to be the fix they needed because after that, the two turn into a scarily efficient team, coming back each night with greater catches than the last. (The rescue corps briefly got scared that they'd hunt something on this planet to extinction)

Their blooming romance comes to a head one day in the tiniest most subtle way. The rescue corps are finally done with PNF-404. There’s no one left to save (everybody double and triple and quadruple checked) and so the Shepard takes off with the Dolphin loaded into its large and comfy storage space, where Louie also resides, since he knows the crew and other castaways will only give him angry glares.

They never warmed up to him, and he doesn’t care much to convince them he’s a better guy. Even if Kish is still fighting tooth and nail against any accusations thrown at him. His one defender, who is currently curled up next to him in the Dolphin’s sleeping space.

Come to think of it, they’ve gotten incredibly cuddly with each other. They just kind of started doing that. Kish explained early on that she’s awfully touch-inclined and that Louie can tell her off whenever he wants. But he never wanted to. He’s always wanted to be touched even more. They’ve been holding hands way past the point of guiding each other, and hugging each other for way too long and way too tightly. Not to mention when they’ve actually tried dancing together on PNF-404 to some impromptu tunes the pikmin would hum to themselves. They’re always together. They’ve grown so close. They have no trouble whatsoever confiding in each other. They’re like… a romantic couple, he realises.

Without thinking too much about it, Louie just asks his half asleep companion: “Did we become a couple at some point?”

“Hm?”

“Did we become a couple at some point?” he repeats.

Kish opens her eyes a bit. Those red eyes that radiate a passionate warmth Louie could get lost in forever. “Hm… well, I guess. If you don’t mind…” he replies.

Louie can’t help but to smile at that.

“I don’t. I love you.” he softly speaks.

“I love you too.” Kish replies gently. He readjusts himself and wraps her arms around Louie, who wraps his own arms around Kish’s shoulder and gives her a kiss on the forehead. This is their little moment. Just them and the cargo of the ship. It reminds Louie of when he and Kish first started properly interacting with each other in the midst of that bushy walkway. It’s exactly the kind of confession he had hoped for.

Despite the calm and gentle beginning of their relationship, Louie is still getting terribly nervous. He hasn’t the faintest clue how to date someone. But handily he’s (debatably) great friends with someone who’s managed to pull a loving wife and kids.

Olimar has to bear several days being bombarded with questions about how to be romantic, but he doesn't mind. He finds this amusingly cute. He tells Louie how he was asked out by his now-wife and how his primary “strategy” was just to be kind, listen to her, and make her feel valued in every interaction.

Olimar also tells Louie about a few of his dates with his wife, which Louie tries to replicate exactly. This fails spectacularly every time, but his determination is nothing short of amazing, and Kish is not shy about telling him how sweet he’s being. She also reminds him that he doesn’t need to try acting like his senior did. It’s perfectly fine with him if Louie just acts like himself, awkward nature and all. Louie really can’t believe he’s managed to find someone in his life who wholeheartedly accepts and loves him for his “flaws”.

Louie visits Kish on Karut a lot and sleeps at his place regularly. Kish’s big space dogs Wilmi and Teddee had to spend a while getting used to the new visitor but they eventually warmed up to him. Still won’t leave him any room on the sofa or bed though. But to be fair they don’t do that for Kish either.

The two have discussed moving together a few times. While Louie would absolutely love to leave his stupid delivery boy job and that stupid vegetarian planet and go to a culinary school where just liking meat isn’t some kind of crime against nature, what it keeps coming back down to is the fact that his grandmother still needs him. And he can’t just leave her on Hocotate. She doesn’t have anyone else.

Kish understands this fully and makes sure to visit him on Hocotate often too. She likes Louie’s grandma, that woman is so strange and her being Like That explains a lot about why Louie is Like That. The old woman has also talked about marriage and getting great-grandchildren already and watching Louie freeze up and go fully red at that is just plain funny.

All in all, they compliment and complete each other in a way neither of them had ever expected. They found themselves and simultaneously something different and compelling in each other. They love each other for their compatible flavours of autism <3

And that’s the story of how the cold King Of Bugs and the fiery Beast Tamer became a couple okay cool thank you for reading <333333333

#louie tag #S/I kish #self ship writing #i really just spent all day writing this huh... fauk #the TL;DR is that kish is angry about everyone being mean to louie and louie is like ''thats hot'' #''you misspellt Shepherd as shepard the whole time-'' shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up

[cartoonrival]

Nrto/Brto for 3 10 & 17?

bro literally the wider naruto fandom sucks so bad idek where to begin

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

i dont have a specific example so instead im gonna give a general gripe about a trend that ive seen in many takes over time

the black and white thinking and refusal to think for half a second about characters other than ur faves Reminds Me Of Something!real ones know. the way people talk about any character with any sort of greyness to their morality kinda makes me crazy and i lowkey think ppl bring up kishimoto TOO MUCH in their discussion of the storys themes bc while obviously like its important to talk abt WHY he wrote it the way he did esp wrt nationalism and all, i think also it sort of dulls ur ability to think anything complex about it if u blame everything u dont like or think was "sloppily done" on kishimoto. judging every character based on kishimoto's morals instead of their own if that makes sense? its not like "the wrong way to do things" i just personally find it really boring when thats the only way youll look at a text. like no wonder you guys are constantly making jokes about how naruto sucks and you'd never recommend it, you wont even allow yourselves to think about the story as its own piece of art beyond just "kishimoto wrote it this way because he sucks" like do you ever think maybe youre killing some of the fun of media analysis... i think its why so many people hate sakura or kakashi or itachi or anyone else. and this always comes out in the way ppl characterize bc theyre like Um I've Fixed Them :) and then its the blandest shit ever because you absolutely refuse to work even slightly WITH the story you claim to love, only fighting tooth and nail against it.

some examples of what i mean w this: basically any conversation about itachi that tries to categorize him as either good or bad. basically any conversation about sakura that tries to do literally anything or nothing with her. people making sns blandly romantic as if the insane and inventive ways they talk about their feelings for each other in canon isnt genuinely part of what makes it so maddeningly fascinating and awesome. anyone who thinks kakashi is a bad teacher. its just this refusal to meet the characters where they are and think of anything in terms of the text itself rather than exclusively in a meta way, ie "this is how it would be if it was good." no its not. you just made it how it would be if it was bland and obvious. dont you literally think the fact that the guy writing it was accidentally writing his characters to be struggling against the same shit that he was struggling against irl and struggling to keep Out of his writing is like. wildly fascinating and part of waht makes the story intersting to pick apart. but ok. this also applies to aspects of boruto primarily sasusaku and naruhina marriages. no one gets it like i doooooo

10. worst part of fanon

everybodys always shipping kakashi with someone and its never even guy. if youre gonna ship kakashi it had better fucking be with guy bc theres gen srs no one else he would be caught dead romancing with and i cant even see how you could read any of his other relationships as romantic. he doesnt even HAVE a relationship with iruka. i get that not every ship has to have canon support but its all either 1) literally not even interesting to think about or 2) what they have actually going on is way more interesting but see my response to question 3. its the same with gaara honestly the more i think about it the more annoyed i get about the ignorance surrounding just-short-of-canon aroace gaara ToT like if u didnt know then ok... but you should learn because its awesome. i just thinking the shipping culture in the fandom is annoying like everyone has to be shipped with someone and that seems to come before their genuinely interesting relationships. and those genuinely interesting relationships are sanded down into something normal. idk this is a gripe that goes w Many Many fandoms but i feel like w naruto its particularly bad largely on account of See Previous Answer. ppl are like "its written this way bc kishimoto is homophobic i will fix this" then they make it suck because shockingly ik kishi actually wrote a good as fuck story if deeply flawed

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

ill be fr i dont gen seek out fics or art independently to be 100% sure that stuff i'd be looking for isn't out there somewhere. but i think ppl really really should just. think about sakura more. i literally love her sm but ppl won't think abt her beyond either 1) she sucks and i hate her (but this is because of kishimoto's writing and has nothing to do with me! if i rewrote naruto then she wouldn't be there 😌 this is a kindness to her and not because i cant be assed to think about a woman for 5 seconds) or 2) girlboss!!!! like.... is that scene in the land of iron not BIBLICAL to anyone else....??? is her devotion to someone she's lost faith in out of loyalty to someone she loves and is losing her ability to understand not FASCINATING???? TO ANYONE ELSE???? IS THE WAY SHE PICKS UP THE TRAITS OF HER TEACHER THAT HE SPECIFICALLY IS NOT MEANING TO PASS ON TO HER NOT HEARTWRENCHING???????? you people suck. instead you write ooc sns over and over and draw kakashi without his mask kissing fucking obito

#asks157 #nrto