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mbti-notes · 3 years

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Anon wrote: Hey. I'm INFJ. I want to ask about relationship problems. The relationship in question is between my ESTJ mother and I. Generally, I would describe our relationship as close and loving, but there is a conflict, and that came from our opposite ideology and political beliefs.

I want to say before continuing that we are neither American or European, so our ideology and politics shouldn't be understood from the "western" side of things, though to simplify by comparison, my views could be described as leftist and my mother's as conservative. I should also add that I used to hold her worldview when I was younger, but changed once I was old enough to form an opinion of my own. This caused my mother to imply many times in our discussions that I am "brainwashed" and dismiss me as "too young" and "too ideological". I should add that the latter (ideological) is a valid criticism. Still working on that.

Otherwise, I often tried to persuade, then later find middle ground with her, to no avail. We ended up arguing many times, until we decided to not talk politics with each other anymore. So, what's the problem, you might ask.

Recently, the political climate in my country got intense. Heated, even. I won't go into details, but there are protests again the government by young liberals/leftists-equivalent of my country. Many of my good acquaintances joined the protest. The government used police force against them, and it got violent. There are young unarmed protestors who were teargassed, beaten, and shot with rubber bullets and high velocity water jets. Some protestors were heavily injured. Some protestors were arrested and incarcerated in horrible conditions. My mother and I agreed to not speak about politics, so I said nothing.

Until my mother, right infront of me, with another family member, openly mocked the protestors, made judgments about them based on the goverment's propaganda, called them a nuisance, and implied that they "deserved it". It's not about her discussing it, but it's about how unempathetic she was when she said those things, towards those young people my age, with similar ideology to me, and how apathetic she was when she said that "nothing's going to change anyway". It was the first time that I saw my mother in that angle, the complete lack of humanity in her words. It still haunts me until now.

So my question to you is, how does one deal with that? I love my mother, I think I always will. I also know that she loves me, or at least the part of me that's still her child. But for a moment, I loved her less, and that frightened me. I began to wonder, what would happen one day if we have to actually take sides, because things are getting worse in my country, not better. This adds to other issues I have in my life and made me more depressed. A part of me tells me that I should tell her about how I feel, but how do you tell someone you love that they're one of the reasons for your sadness?

I'm sorry if this is stupid. I'm sure that this feeling I have is one-sided, and I wonder if I'm being selfish or ungrateful. Maybe it's because I'm too sensitive these days, so I thought if I have an outside neutral opinion, it will help illuminate my clouded mind. Thank you. I hope you had a good summer break!

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The sentence that sticks out at me the most is: "It was the first time that I saw my mother in that angle, the complete lack of humanity in her words." I would argue that the problem doesn't lie with her. In fact, nothing about your mother had changed. She was still the same woman as before she uttered those words. The issue arises from your perception of her and the standards by which you evaluate her.

I follow world affairs very closely, so I think I know which region you are speaking of. One of the biggest problems in the manner that people think and talk about politics is the tendency to stereotype. Stereotyping is basically a form of cognitive oversimplification. It makes your thinking ability fast but also very dull and blunt, unable to understand situations with the nuance and sophistication that is required for good judgment and decision making.

It doesn't matter which country/culture you are from, there is always some variation of "right versus left". Why? Because in every society, there will always exist an underlying tension between those who don't want change and those who do. You may label these two opposing forces as right vs left, conservative vs liberal, regressive vs progressive, etc, but the fact of the matter is that these labels are gross oversimplifications of people's political belief systems.

When you divide people along an oversimplified dichotomy, it's too easy to stereotype them, in terms of believing that all people on each "side" hold all the same beliefs and values. Stereotyping goes along with the natural tendency of humans to be tribal. You start to view those on your side as being intellectually and morally superior to those on the other side. This leads to dehumanization and even demonization of the other side. In essence, you lose the ability to empathize with people, as long as you believe that they aren't on your side or the "right" side.

It seems that your political thinking has become too stark due to how extreme the situation has become. You have the feeling of fighting for your life because of the way that the situation has been handled by authorities, as they are indeed putting people's lives in danger. Your feelings about the situation are completely valid. But you fail to recognize that your mom's feelings about the situation are also valid. Certainly, there are hard-core fundamentalists and extremists out there that you can never reach because their beliefs and values are not based in any form of reason. However, I don't think your mom fits into that category, does she?

Do you know what it means to have no humanity? You are accusing her of something like psychopathy. Is that really true of her? I don't think so. She said: "nothing's going to change anyway". I don't consider this an expression of "apathy", as you assume. This is an expression of hopelessness. In that sentence, there is a real possibility that your mom is sympathetic at heart, but she disagrees that the chaotic actions of the protestors (i.e. the method) will lead to any meaningful change... and she may be absolutely right about that.

You haven't grasped the nuances of your mom's beliefs and values because your mindset has been so hardened by the extreme nature of the political conflict. This means that, when you engage in political discussion with her, you are unable to: 1) acknowledge how she feels, 2) acknowledge that there is some reason/merit/validity behind her beliefs, and 3) be open-minded enough to meet her halfway.

Put another way: If you met someone who wouldn't acknowledge your feelings as valid, dismissed all of your beliefs and values as completely wrong without proper investigation, and only sought to "convert" you, would you want to communicate with them? Probably not. This is the unproductive attitude that you now both bring to the table. This is the divisive attitude that arises when a conflict becomes too polarized and everyone is forced to "choose a side".

Unless one of you learns to listen and communicate more effectively, what will change? You say that you have tried to find middle ground with her but always end up arguing. Not finding middle ground is one thing, but getting caught up in interpersonal drama is a whole other thing. The option to amicably agree to disagree is always available. If you genuinely respect someone and respect their freedom to form their own beliefs, it shouldn't be hard to agree to disagree. Why do you find it so difficult to let her be her? Ultimately, you're not really interested in "middle ground"? You just want her agreement? Getting caught up in arguments all the time, especially on a recurring basis, indicates poor communication skills that stem from a troubling lack of objectivity. The more you argue with the intent to shame/change the other person, the more you push them away from your side, and the more myopic you get in your own beliefs.

You seem to have fallen into the trap of categorizing her into the tribe that you view as the enemy of your tribe, namely, the authorities that are cracking down on you young protestors. You've started to view her as the enemy, now you can't empathize with her, and even accuse her of having no humanity. You now consider yourself morally superior to her. If there is any possibility that she could be your ally, you've slammed the door on it.

You describe a very dire and desperate political situation that affects everyone, BUT, it doesn't affect everyone the same way. Different people have very different ways of dealing with intense emotions like fear, insecurity, grief, despair, helplessness, etc. Due to inferior Fi, ESTJs have extremely low tolerance for intense and uncontrollable emotions. Remember that one's ability to utilize the inferior function is not much better than a young child. If ESTJs can't neutralize or deflect their sense of powerlessness quickly, the burden of the emotions will quickly destroy them. I don't think you've really understood the thought process behind your mom's words and what is really motivating her "apathy".

Just because someone doesn't agree with your methods, doesn't mean that they don't have anything in common with you. Politics isn't just about good vs evil, as in, if you don't stand up for good, then you are evil. Everyone has their own way of looking at the situation because everyone has their own interests to take care of first and foremost, and everyone has their own ideas about the best methods to pursue. This is true for both you and your mom. It is possible to agree on beliefs but disagree on methods. For example, I'm assuming that you care about this cause so deeply because you care about your future. Sure, your ideas about the future differ from hers. But, certainly, you are both interested in securing your future, aren't you?

History has shown us that young people are always more willing to fight for causes because: 1) they would suffer less immediate material loss than the elder generation, 2) they have fewer life responsibilities, obligations, and commitments to take into consideration, and 3) their lack of life experience sometimes makes their thinking too simplistic when visualizing future implications.

Your interests aren't fully aligned with your mom's in this situation, perhaps because you are from different generations. However, this doesn't mean that your interests don't align in other important ways. At the end of the day, your mom is probably deathly afraid of seeing YOU on the news being beaten to a pulp and disappeared by the police, right? And it may be the case that she's passing harsh judgment on the protestors because she's trying to discourage you from meeting their horrible fate? That's hardly lack of humanity.

To be a good critical thinker, you need to learn to be more objective. Objectivity means understanding all aspects of the situation, or as many as you can manage. Objectivity and empathy often go hand-in-hand. You won't be able to empathize well unless you acknowledge that there might be some aspects of the situation that you're not seeing or understanding. When you take more time to get to the bottom of someone's thought process and why they really feel the way they do, you will discover all sorts of openings to influence their political beliefs in a friendly way. But when you can't even acknowledge that the other side might have an important point to be made, because you are so hardened in your stance, you've created a dead end for yourself.

#politics #empathy #emotional intelligence #debate #disagreement #conflict #infj #infj relationships #communication #ask

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dear-yandere · 3 years

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—ask collection!

a collection of mostly very old chats and sweet asks that i never got around to answering! thanks for the patience and love!!

beware, fairly long post... woops....

chat asks.

darling: Eu-jin is best boy. Change my mind.

vanya: i am physically incapable of fulfilling that request, how dare you do that to me... i’m biased since he’s my own oc, but i would die for my (very best) boy eu-jin... who can resist such a gentle yandere that loves you so whole-heartedly?

that reminds me! he’s actually based off of kuroyuki and gekkamaru from the otome nightshade, so if you want similar characters by any chance, do check them and the game out ♡

darling: I was watching the dub for Part 5 of JoJo's Bizarre adventure yesterday...Mista called himself Daddy and I like- sdfghjfgsdhnhnmj!! My heart can't take this--

vanya: WAIT HE DID???? i’m not even big on daddy kink and reading that made me go 😳 this is vital information to know... what episode was this??? for research purposes, of course. gotta perfect my yan! mista, after all~...

darling: for yandere songs, have you heard of the major to minor covers by chase holfelder :O? the way he delivers the lyrics in some songs (betty, all i want for christmas), added with the key changes to minor, is really fantastic, and gives a stalker-ish vibe imo! and he's a really good singer in general

vanya: i have!! a good chunk of them are actually on my personal yandere playlist, so i end up hearing them frequently when i’m writing!! i haven’t been keeping up with his uploads recently, so ‘betty’ is completely new to me and just, wow???????????? this man is an absolute god send for us “romantic” horror fans... ♡

this ask gave me such a lovely idea, though, darling: assigning yandere types/mbti based off each of chase’s minor key covers. i think i’ll do that just for you. ♡

darling @blossomiich: I reread some of your old character interaction asks and saw the one with Jotaro hugging his Darling after a panic attack and the elephant seal plush reminded me of the iconic C H O N K Y ringed seal plushie that was kinda trending and I can totally imagine Jotaro having one of those >w< that's so adorable!

vanya: i honestly don’t remember that interaction, but then again i don’t remember most things hmghng so i looked it up and

j...just imagine star plat hogging it and not letting joot cuddle with it 🥺 the duality of man...thank you for this cute image...

darling: Umm, sorry for asking this. I'm just curious because of your bio language in your header. Are you Chinese too, perhaps?

vanya: no worries!! i’m mixed guyanese (indian, chinese, & possibly black and/or portuguese), but my family only celebrates (or rather, acknowledges?) our indian descent, since the majority of our family is predominantly east indian.

my header is actually a quote from a danmei novel (and one of my all-time favorite fandoms), tiān guān cì fú (heaven’s official blessing)!

darling genki stan anon: Omg you're writing for free now, i didn't expect that one lol. It's a cute show innit? Not a nagi stan but I feel like nagisa has that kinda unsnapped personality that would make him peak delusional yandere material lolol like oikawa but less threatening and without his head being up his own ass 😂. Hope you're doing well!! -gsa

Gdjsjs im such a fool, i think my last ask said something about not thinking you'd write for free when i literally just pointed out kisumi on your sideblog LMAO my bad 😅 😂 also ill hold back on the gen chan requests because ive already asked so many in the past! Thank you though 🥺. Also feel free not to post this, it can just dip into my onesided chats with my lil flower 💐 so long as you receive them im fine 😌 -genki stan anon

vanya: nagisa isn’t my favorite (kisumi is), but gods if he wouldn’t make a great yandere. honestly, out of the iwatobi boys, nagi is probably the most unhinged. i wouldn’t peg him as delusional, at least not at first; i think he’s very lucid and knows exactly what he wants and how to manipulate people in order to get it!!! kisumi is fairly similar now that i think about it... i might... have a type...

please feel free to send in gen-chan requests whenever you want!!!! i’m kinda super asocial, so it’ll take me a while to answer, but i love getting asks from you since you’re so sweet and excitable!!! your little flower reads and cherishes them all!! 🥺

also darling genki stan anon: Sorry for spamming you with asks hdjkdks, u dont even need to reply im just kinda brain empty venting here whether you recieve them or not 😂 i just needed to confess that while yes i am #1 gen simp, and he is undoubtedly my fave oc of yours but that Ilya tentacle smut had me very much so highkey kinda 👀, had to re read the genki oral style drabble to bring my head back. He dont even need to worry about luca bc that man a thot. I think therin is a thot too but like lowkey, a classy thót -gsa

vanya: omg i’ve kept this one for forever mnmghngh i might’ve even answered at some other point, now that i think about it... but i just 🥺 gosh i hope i find my muse soon, because i really wanna write you a genki fic 🥺 hhhh

the ilya tentacle smut was so in character for that boy... i have no clue how to write monsters, much less tentacles, but i’d honestly do anything for him 🙏 kinky russian boy...

therin is definitely a classy thot, the kind that only bangs the finest concubines then turns around and slut shames you for banging the very same prostitutes gbfmngnfg rules don’t apply to him, in his kingdom...wish that were me tbh ✊😔

sweet asks.

darling one: i've read almost all of your dazai and chuuya fics and i love them so much!! your formatting is also super aesthetic just a question, i saw on your kofi that you also draw so i was wondering if you drew all the header arts?? bc they're all super pretty :) have a great day!

darling two: Just wanted to say love the writing and the way your format your posts is so aesthetically pleasing. One day I hope my posts looks half as good as yours because I legit can't get over how pretty and organized it looks.

vanya: omg thank you so much!!!! one of my bffs, yue, is to thank for the formatting and aesthetic choices, really! if you wanna see more of her aesthetic formats and posts, she actually runs a few blogs! you may know her as @milkscafe, formally @milkaaton! i adore her and her aes choices so much 🥺

as for the headers, i don’t draw 99.98% of them! i have drawn a couple, but they’re so few and far in between since i almost never finish my art wips haha... my older posts are lacking proper credits because i’m an absolute idiot, but i’m slowly working my way backwards to credit them all where possible! they’re all indeed super pretty!!!

have a great day yourself, my love!!

darling: THEY’RE NOT BAD CONTENT, I LOVE THEM ALL

vanya: this was in response to a now-deleted lil blurb but i kept it in my inbox because i wanted to say i love u very much and seeing this ask each time i open my inbox makes my heart skip a beat ♡

darling: Listen I love your writing, you inspired me to start it myself! I've always loved to write, and read of course but your style and concepts just stick with me. If you where to write something besides Yandere content/fandom content and started your own series? I would read the shit, out of it. I'm always nervous to interact with my favorite writers because you know, I'm afraid of the impression I'd leave but I just wanted to say this anyway! 💞💞💞🔫😳

vanya: wowowow fgfnmgnfmngfg that’s such a high compliment my brain just gmfnbgmnf go boom fogjfngnfg and thank you for the interaction, us writers truly appreciate it no matter how awkward or nervous you think you may be / come off!!!

darling one: As a writer, your post struck a nerve with me. I don’t send feedback to writers I like nearly as much as I should (and certainly not as much as I’d like in return as a writer). So, as such, I’m going to start doing that when I can, starting with you.

You are an incredible writer. You were one of the first yandere writing blogs I found and you’re still one I check in on regularly to see what you have been working on. You can portray a sense of suspense and intrigue in a natural way that many other writers - published ones included - struggle with. You delve into the darkness without it feeling forced, and you have an amazing grasp on the psyches of the characters you write for (which is a quality I adore in writing and strive toward myself).

I’m not great at ending these things so I guess.. you keep doing you? Because the you is great and I appreciate it.

darling two: hey. i'm here to tell you that from the bottom of my heart i love you and your writings. i really admire your writing skills. you inspire me. one of your posts once saved me from a nervous breakdown. thank you for everything you do. you're a wonderful person. good luck!

darling three: I wanted to tell you that thank you for writing such wonderful beautiful writings and that you take time to edit and write I hope you are taking care of yourself 💖❤

darling four: Thanks. I was having a hard time and deleted all my apps, but as soon as i opened my phone my first instinct was to look at your blog and i got my motivation back. Thanks (:

darling five: Hi ! I just wanted to say I really enjoy the stories you write and how they are detailed so well ! Stay safe and I hope you have a good day/night ! ლ(╹◡╹ლ)

vanya: ahhhh, these are very old asks mostly dating back to my “tumblr writing community is dying” post, and i’ve kept them this entire time because i’m just so starstruck. i have no clue how to reply to compliments, so i’m not sure what else to say besides that these asks made me very happy and got me through a few insecure moments!!! i’ve actually been feeling a little down about my writing recently, mostly because of lack of motivation / inspiration, so revisiting these really warmed my heart, so thank you truly ♡ i’m certainly keeping the originals in my inbox until the end of time!!

darling @monstrously-obsessed: psst, this local cryptic mom thing send all of their love for you 💕

vanya: your local herbo says she loves you very much momster 🥺 mwah

also, to the anon worried about my safety:

thank you so much for pointing that out!!! it hadn’t even crossed my mind when i made those ocs, so i appreciate your concern! i was contemplating revamping those two as is, so this is a great place to start! thank you again!!

#asks collection #not a fic #vanya rambles #[ vanya LITERALLY rambles ]#[ life's hard when you're this asocial i swear fgmnfgnmfg ]#[ now to answer concept asks ]

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thejustmaiden · 4 years

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I’m honestly hoping with the current movement of #saveourchildren and the lgbtq community calling out pedos will give the sequel backlash if Rin is the mother. Also I hope none of those shippers are a part of the movement because than it’s just hypocrisy at it’s finest. I’m honored praying sunrise gets the backlash if they decide to do that, especially since it’s 2020, NORMAL and SANE people will be shocked. I’m pretty sure everyone’s sick of the “it’s normal in Japan.” People want change.

Hey, nonnie! I'm not sure if you're the same person who sent me the previous anon ask about what Jaken's VA sent during the livestream or not. I'm assuming that because I received them almost back-to-back, but maybe I wrong. Whatever it may be, happy to have you. 😊

It would be hypocritical in many ways, yes, but at the same time many Sessrin shippers say they would never condone acts like child grooming and the such in real life. I really believe them for the most part, too.

So where does that leave us? Well, what it all really comes down to is at what point do we start acknowledging the spaces both fiction and real life occupy and the (in)direct impact they're capable of having on each other.

In my opinion, Sessrin shippers refuse to accept their correlation- whether that be due to denial, lack of awareness, or a bit of both. Regardless, it's safe to say they simply don't take how linked these two are as seriously as antis do.

As has become a habit of mine in recent blogs/asks lol, I'd like to refer you to a great write-up by boycottyashahime. Read their thoughts on this very subject here. They always put it better than me anyway. Here's a preview excerpt:

"Predators have and continue to use fictional relationships to convince their victims that the abuse they experience is perfectly fine. I think that it would behoove the SessRin community to make sure that those in their midst who are young and vulnerable know the warning signs, understand when an older person may be trying to take advantage of them, and encourage drawing a clear line between the fictional ship and real relationships."

Sessrin shippers would respond to this by saying that shipping a fictional pairing- yes, even if it has harmful implications- isn't actually bad since it's not real and therefore can't be viewed in a negative light. A common misconception of theirs is that antis can't separate real life from fiction. Let me break down why these two reasonings lack support and are basically justifications:

1) Inuyasha is aimed at a young audience, and at no point in this series should a teenager watching be subjected to controversial dynamics closely reminiscent of pedophilia or child grooming. Period.

2) Most of us who have a problem with it CAN in fact differentiate between real life and fiction so please stop missing the point, be it intentionally or not.

The main issue we have is why are we exposing young minds to a heavy topic they are not mature enough to handle yet. Whether you agree or not, it's common knowledge that Sessrin raises a lot of red flags. Antis aren't overreacting because of dumb shipping wars or anything trivial like that. What we're reacting to is the typical Sessrin shipper's response to this pairing. Ship it if you want, but please don't tell us how we should frame our opinions according to your "historically accurate" portrayal, especially if it morphs the truth into something unrecognizable in order to fit your narrative.

Here's an example to give you a better idea of what I mean:

Let's say my favorite animal is the koala bear and yours is the kangaroo. Both are marsupials, right? Both lovable, but one is friendly and the other can be quite dangerous. Now imagine you trying to suggest a kangaroo is as friendly as a koala- so essentially something it's not. Shouldn't I correct you? Sure, you can love the kangaroo (Sessrin in this case) all you want, but shouldn't we stick to the facts presented to us? Accurate identification is the key to appropriate representation! (Say it with me! I like alliteration and rhyming, what can I say? lol) This way there isn't any confusion and we can help prevent our young ones from misinterpreting potentially threatening situations. By attempting to pass the kangaroo off in a category among docile species like the koala (aka healthy ships), you risk putting others in harm's way. Who's to say a child won't take your word for it and just run up to a kangaroo someday and get gravely injured (aka they've now exposed themselves to a real life predator). All this could've been avoided from the get-go if a certain group of people didn't refuse to admit that the kangaroo is indeed dangerous no matter how much they wish it wasn't. Trying to convince us that a kangaroo can be like a koala or something it's not is never going to happen. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that either so there's no need to get defensive. The kangaroo can still survive and thrive and so can your ship, but just in a different environment/genre.

(Did that analogy work? xD)

And nobody as far as I've witnessed (with the exception of maybe one or two occasions) has straight-up called Sessrin shippers pedophiles. Pedo apologists, perhaps, but those two aren't one in the same. Petty and ugly name-calling on the other hand? Well, that's taking place on both sides so you can't really use that against antis.

People do want change! Not only am I tired of Sessrin fans speaking on behalf of an entire country regarding the popularity of a ship despite a strong presence of antis there, nonnie, I'm sick of those same fans telling us we don't have a right to be critical of the content we consume. "If you don't like it, then stop watching."

Since when did it become wrong to demand we do better and improve in areas? It's only normal we care and expect our entertainment to be aligned with our real life morals, because how else do you think fans relate to characters? Of course fiction can push the boundaries as is its nature, but like with everything else in life there are limits. After all, the stories we make up are but reflections of the human experience and we're taught that there are some lines you must never cross.

I'd like to end this off by saying that I hope you're right, nonnie, and that Sunrise and everyone else involved in this sequel receive all the backlash they deserve if they decide to go through with Sessrin. It's possible that movements like Save Our Children can help people who are struggling to understand why making this ship canon is problematic. On top of that, it can help them re-evaluate their values and put them in better perspective in regard to this pairing's close connection to serious acts of abuse like child grooming.

Maybe this whole time we've just been underestimating Sunrise and Rumiko's ability for profound and consistent storytelling. *knocks on wood* All along maybe we had nothing to worry about, who knows? Don't break my heart, readers, and just let me be the half-glass full kinda gal I've always been. It ain't over till it's over. 🤗

Edit: I recently discovered that a right-wing conspiracy pro-Trump group by the name of QAnon is trying to hijack the Save Our Children movement as their own. As much as I support anything that brings more light to children's issues, I do not support Trump, this terrorist organization, and their conspiracy theories.

#inuyasha #hanyo no yashahime #anti sessrin #save our children #anonymous asks #answered ask

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blarhiv · 5 years

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Pre-Debut Fan on Shipping and KM

Guys,one wonderful Anonnie decided to bless us with so well written article.So,please,read it <3

Anonnie,thank you for sharing with us your thoughts!

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BE WARNED VERY LONG SHIPPING/KM POST AHEAD!!!!

First of all, I just want to clarify that I’m a KM supporter. By my current understanding and my own personal definition, this is to say that that while I believe in the possibility of these two individuals being in a real-life relationship, I am at peace with the reality that it is also conceivable that they are merely very close, wonderful friends. I will get to KM a bit later, but I first want to go through some general commentary on the statement of the fandom in regards to shipping first. I’ve tried to be as respectful as I could and so, things have gotten quite lengthy indeed.

PART 1: Shipping and Fandoms

Shipping Wars

My first point of major contention lies in shipping wars—in quick and easy summation, I truly really fail to understand shipping wars.

It doesn’t quite make sense to me that there are individuals warring over which ship is real when, no one in the band has ever confirmed a heterosexual relationship, never mind an in-band relationship. So, why fight about it when we can enjoy the lovely bonds between human beings and celebrate good, ostensibly healthy relationships?

If shippers were really into their “ship” (for lack of better terminology) for the bond between those two people, I feel that it is imperative to acknowledge what complete injustice one is doing by participating in something so meaningless and hateful as shipping wars.(Now, despite my refusal to get involved in shipping wars, I do empathize and understand those combating the wretched comments and criticisms these toxic individuals in the fandom say about undeserving band members. But I still do implore people not to argue over with some of these hyper-volatile, toxic individuals about why their perspective is inherently flawed because these people are highly unlikely to entertain a healthy, open discourse about a difference in opinions.)

And at the point where shippers are determined to evince the realness of their ship, I think their intentions are automatically highly suspect.

Why?

If one is truly trying to celebrate the connection, the supposed love, and the affection of said ship, there absolutely shouldn’t be a pressing need or compulsion to prove others wrong for not sharing the same perspective as yours.

At that point, it becomes less about a celebration of love and more about selfish gratification—whatever it is that may be incentivizing said shipper (And there are, unfortunately, a plethora of self-serving reasons people ship which are not limited to the fetishization of gays/Asians, the determination not to have their dreams of being with a band member to be shattered by their significant other being a female, the egotistical compulsion of needing to be “right”, etc.). And if one is shipping with the genuine intentions of supporting a potentially LGBTQ band member or generally supporting two humans demonstrating great love (whether it presents itself in a platonic or romantic expression), it needn’t matter what the label or status of that relationship is.

So, if one is supporting with selfless intentions and a sincere desire to see members happy, there’s no point of arguing about the “realness” of a ship because at the end of the day, all the ships in the band are real—because they all have honest, genuine relationships with one another as friends. Shipping Real People

This is also a highly controversial subject and I believe it is mainly due to the lack of boundaries people have set in place when they participate in shipping real people.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with real people ships—but only under great constraints and self-monitoring. Most people who ship real people do so because human beings are naturally drawn to and attracted to love—that is to say, people love love. That’s why people enjoy romantic movies and relationships between characters on television shows. That’s why writers like to write about love and photographers take pictures of things and people they love.

However, the problem lies in people who take liberties with how seriously they can invest into a real person ship or how entitled they begin to feel towards someone else’s life.

This is where para-social relationships come into place—through the use of social media, fans are given ultra personal ways to interact with celebrities causing them to believe that they’re connected to their idols despite the reality that it is a one-way relationship. These celebrities do not know you—and therefore, they owe you absolutely nothing in regard to their personal life. And so, I absolutely do not condone writing or tagging or demanding things from any real-life ship (ie. VLives, Twitters, fan meets, InstaLives, etc.) where one could be causing the human being distress or pressure. They are, at the end of the day, real people with real feelings and real lives—and we, as fans or spectators at best, are simply entitled to no components of their life.

I think there are instances that you can comment on a celebrity’s life and have it be a perfectly innocuous encounter. For example, it’s quite alright to appreciate and feel second-hand joy at seeing two people whom one respects and follows as a fan looking happy with their potential partners (as in the case of KM) or commenting supportively on a confirmed real-life couple’s Instagram photos (Justin and Hailey Bieber, Michelle and Barak Obama, Hyuna and E’Dawn, Cara Delevine and Ashley Benson, etc.). Feeling joy at seeing someone else happy or commenting something cute and chill on a real-life couple’s picture doesn’t cost anything nor does it harm anyone. But if you, as a fan, begin to demand things from said people if the real life couple breaks up (Justin Bieber-Selena Gomez, Cole Sprouse-Lili Reinhart, etc.) or you hate the real significant other after one half of a popular ship is revealed to be dating someone else (Zendaya-Tom Holland-anonymous girlfriend), that’s when you’ve got a real problem and you need to reassess what you’re doing. If you are going to ship a real-life ship, do it sensitively—don’t personally bother these people with your unsolicited advice and woes, they don’t care about your ships, they just want to live their lives.

Fetishization and Homophobia

Another deeply problematic that comes with the shipping territory is the fetishization.

There are, unfortunately, many fans that like the idea of a real ship right up until the point there’s a possibility where the members might actually be part of the LGBTQ community. It’s sexy and sensual, a “guilty pleasure”, to imagine the idea of gays, but the actual concept of homosexuality as a real part of someone’s identity is somehow unacceptable to many fans. This is definitely a problem in the Asian music industry.

While girls fawn over the boy-boy interactions on stage, these same young women are equally likely to be disgusted by the existence of actual homosexual men trying to celebrate their love on the streets—and the KPop industry feeds into this by via methods like encouraging fan service between members or the Pepero game.

This is deeply disheartening as there are, without doubt, LGBTQ members in this industry—we may not know them by name or face (aside from Holland), but they certainly do exist. And how sad is it to imagine that the closest to acceptance these human beings will ever attain for their sexual preferences is on stage for the gratification of fans who won’t even support them if they actually come out? If you only enjoy same-sex interactions on stage, feeling repulsion or deterrence in supporting a gay or lesbian idol based on their sexual preferences, you probably have some soul searching to do.

Another thing I’ve noticed is the tendency of same-sex shippers to modify a harmless interaction between members as they make jokes or innuendos that splatter a hue of raw sexual essence onto the moment—this is, in part, some fetishization. We should try to avoid this as gay men are trying to escape the sexualized view a large majority of people have about them.

And KMers are guilty of this—after all, sometimes when a boy says he wants to do his laundry, he really just wants to do his laundry.

So, this is something else to keep in mind.

General Homophobia

How many times have bloggers received comments about how X members can’t be gay or how if X is gay that the anon can’t be a fan of that person anymore? I’ve definitely read several too many in my time and these are all exemplifying comments of people who house internal homophobia.

Unfortunately, the need to explicitly state and prove homosexuality will always be a symptom of the heteronormativity of most societies—and I do understand why it happens and it’s not always a malicious assumption.

What I peacefully and regretfully do not understand are aggressive fans who flagrantly deny the possibility of any other sexuality aside from being straight—these instances really make me suspect these are mainly female fans that can’t stomach the possibility of their idols not being into their gender or are straight up homophobic without any other reason. (That being said, I also don’t encourage any same-sex shippers/supporters to make assumptions about sexualities either. It’s fine to support and to suspect the possibility of a same-sex relationship, but there should always be that margin for error since none of these idols are definitively out.)

Conclusion to General Shipping

TLDR; my basic point in the first part of this ridiculous essay is that, we should really all respect one another as members of a single fandom. And beyond that, we should all respect the people whom we are shipping, taking great care and using our sensibilities to ensure we aren’t making real people uncomfortable.

PART 2: KM

History as a Fan of BTS

So, I just want to clarify that I am a pre-debut BTS fan. I literally read about JM and JK a couple days before they were due to debut and as a huge hip-hop fan, I was immediately interested in their concept. I instantly fell in love with JM’s voice and JK’s multi-faceted talents (and live vocal skills)—that is to say, I was most interested in these two members from the very beginning. As of recent days, I have detached myself from the fandom, preferring to keep a great distance away due to the toxicity and negativity I’ve unfortunately been privy to as the fan base grows bigger and bigger—and it really does make me incredibly sad. I’ve always been into BTS for the music—they were what I listened to bussing up to school as I admired the Cyphers by the rap-line, the gorgeous fluidity of JM’s melodic voice, the deep resonance of TH’s voice, and JK’s talents as a quality, consistent singer despite his age.

And now, sometimes the ship wars and solo stans are louder than the positive members in this community. Luckily, I’ve found a small niche of BTS blogs and KM blogs that have made this experience a lot easier (for KM blogs, many thanks to people like blarhiv, slowlybutobvious-jikook, gaja-aegiya-gaja, chaotic-jikook, singwriteluv, jiminkoo, etc.)

Shipping as a Whole

Now, as for the shipping component. I want to clarify I’m a very selective real-person shipper—I don’t look for mere skin ship or overt proclamations of love or popularity of ship.

Of course, these are initially the easiest features to discern a shippable “ship”, but I’m well practiced in the KPop industry and know these factors between members are virtually useless in discerning romantic interest.

On top of being a selective shipper, I also think it’s safe to say I’m pretty respectful about shipping as I always try to maintain reasonable skepticism and I’ve never commented anything about shipping on any forum that could make the involved individual uncomfortable. With all that being said, the beginning of BTS, I did not see ANY SHIPS that I could’ve deemed suspicious enough to be considered real. They were all just young kids that were trying to pave their path to success and just boys messing around on their early television appearances whilst trying to promote their albums.

And even when YM and TK began to gain traction as the fandom’s decidedly largest ships with some believing them to be “real”, I still didn’t see it—and this is said with utmost respect to their closeness and respect for one another as teammates, colleagues, and close friends.

Undoubtedly, their interactions were playful and adorable, but there was nothing in how they interacted to rouse any suspicions whatsoever. I would view their interactions as commonplace as any other men in regular friendships—with their culture and their age and their jobs in consideration. Again, I never understood people who truly believed in the validity of these ships.

Now, to be fair, I have, of course, also participated in casually shipping a few members for fun too. For example, I thought Sope was cute and I was drawn to VM’s friendship as well—JM and TH were so ridiculously cute and close, it was nearly impossible not to casually ship them. In the earlier years, since I believed there to be no "real" ships, I was on board with other casual shippers but was greatly confused by those who believed the big three ships (YM, NJ, and TK) were actually real.

My View on Early KM

I first started tuning into KM when I saw a particular Bomb clip of JM and JK messing around with a phone app where their voices were autotuned. Whilst JM was laughing, JK just had his face crinkled up with the softest look on his face. I was like, “huh”—but it definitely wasn’t enough for me to begin thinking it could be real.

Since it was one isolated incident, caught directly on camera, it wasn’t nearly enough evidence to make any logical inferences. At that point, I’d just be jumping onto the train of delusion. While on the subject of early KM, I also want to take this opportunity to quickly give my take on this malicious narrative that JK doesn’t like JM—as a pre-debut fan, I’ve never bought into this.

Between JK’s self-proclaimed shyness towards JM’s unadulterated fondness for him, JK’s proclivities to drop honorifics on camera even from the beginning, JK telling JM he teases his hyung because he likes him—I was almost flabbergasted when I first caught inklings of it.

This is such an outrageous vilification and outright character assassination of a young kid in his teens who didn’t know how to deal with his hyung’s affections, despite having always confirmed and reassured JM that he does, in fact, like him.

The fact that so-called fans to this day still try to drive this narrative despite the fact that JK has set fire and gasoline to this toxic roller coaster ride of lies and delusions is actually unfathomable to me. Never mind the exact type of relationship KM have, it’s just so distinguishably clear that JK really, really likes JM judging by the amount of time they spend together and how beautiful JK’s smile is when he’s around JM.

The Shift

Essentially, I casually shipped Sope, VM, and KM at some point—they were my favourites to see interact and I was always cooing over how adorable their bonds were with one another. And if I’m being frank, I was especially partial to the latter two ships because of how attentive and caring JM is to his younger members.

JM’s kindness has always touched my heart.

I find JM’s interactions with people the most fascinating based off the fact that he is just an enthralling, ethereal human being with this gorgeous voice and enormous heart—and for that, he was my very favourite member always.

But, of course, I am a KM supporter.How did this happen?

Well, my eyes nearly bugged out of my head at the infamous back hug at 2015 KBS Music Festival—especially since it was JK being so unusually expressive and forward with his affection. But perhaps this was a cultural thing? I definitely felt some cognitive dissonance as I tried to explain the strange, almost romantic aura of the moment using logic despite sensing that this string of reasoning didn’t sit quite right with me. But again, one isolated incident is a whole lot of nothing in the world of skin ship and KPop.

But as we all know, at this point, we got see KM get closer and see their relationship develop and I was really all for it as I was incredibly pleased by that personal growth in JK as a maturing adult and the joy it conversely seemed to bring JM with this newly matured JK.

JK’s Development

A large part of my transition over from casual to serious “shipper” is actually because of JK. I’ve always viewed him as a talented individual, as aforementioned, but other than that there was certainly other larger personalities that caught my eye quicker—between JM’s big heart, JH’s enormous personality, and TH’s quirks, he was definitely quietly existing in the background when he wasn’t performing. But he really just grew into himself and I think any fan can see that.

There’s all the general ways he grew up, his physique and his facial structure and his height, but more than anything my heart softened immensely when I began to see what a beautiful soul this boy had always had. I’m not saying that he’s not without flaws—because another a huge problem in the industry is the fans’ tendency to idealize their idols past the mortal realm of making mistakes or having character flaws—but anyone can see he’s clearly matured.

The way he treats JM only gets better and better with each year.

And I genuinely don’t feel that it’s delusional to say the way that he treats JM is vastly different from any other member. He is kind-hearted with a dreamy view on the world and he’s good to his hyungs after everything they’ve done for him when he’d been a child, but he’s that in tenfold around JM. To say he doesn’t play favourites when JM’s involved is being willfully ignorant because there’re so many recent examples alone (the way he splashes water on SJ vs. JM, the way he roughhouses other members vs. JM, the way he gives JM a big pancake because of an impending punishment vs. SJ in same predicament, the attentive way he watches JM in interviews over other members, the way he monitors JM's health via food and drink, etc.).

I also want to mention as a disclaimer that these comparisons aren’t made in any type of malicious way or with the intent of discrediting relationships between JK and other members. It’s simply instrumental in understanding why such a large population of non-shippers have been drawn to KM as a potential real pairing versus any other pairing. If everyone stopped inserting their own captions and interpretations of JK’s actions and only had the source material in front of them, no misleading historical content to waylay new fans with a tired and counterfeit narrative, it’s pretty clear that JK displays incredible fondness and tenderness towards JM in a conspicuous manner.

It doesn’t make his relationships with the others any less, it just makes his relationship with JM just that little bit more. It’s not about putting down or undermining the other relationships, it’s just about acknowledging the reality of JK’s obvious magnetism towards JM. If a fan really cares for JK, it’s almost cruel to disregard the fact that his face lights up when he’s with JM (WeVerse picture, JM punching him on the shoulder, FaceTime picture, VLive, etc.) and his voice softens when he speaks to JM (Run episode with JK slating, Run episode playing palm game, Run episode asking JM if he’s ready, etc.).

These examples aren’t delusions, it’s reality—the evidence are quite literally in photographs or videos. As a longtime fan, I honestly and sincerely mean this—JK has become a handsome man in my eyes not because of his appearance (though he’s undeniably good-looking) but because of the way he treats JM and others he cares for. As the years pass by, his heart and soul has become more and more beautiful in my eyes. I can’t attribute it fully to JM, but I can certainly say that my heart melts when I see his interactions with JM—not because I am a shipper/supporter but because as an empathetic human, I am viscerally drawn to humans with kindness in their hearts. The man treats JM so, so well. I know I keep repeating this but it’s just a grave injustice to ignore how much JK cares for JM. Never mind your projected desires and your biases, just look at what’s in front of you and just appreciate that enviable, lovely bond. Even if people will choose to disregard romantic overtones in GCFt or the meaningful lyrics during the times JM shows up in GCFsai or the fact he has the most screen time overall (which is fine), it'd be prudent to at least acknowledge the fact that JM is incredibly treasured by this young man.

JMs Shift

Another thing that made me suspicious was the transition of JM’s behavior as well.

I find it harder to read JM than JK in many ways—perhaps it’s just an introvert relating with follow introvert—but there are differences in his behavior that also made me question things as well.

It’s obvious that JM used to be a little much for shy, introverted JK in front of the camera and that that behavior tapered off as the years went by. I do think a large part of it is due to JM growing up (although I do suspect some part might be due to vicious fans who might’ve hurt his feelings about his personality) and reigning himself in. But even then, he was still visibly touchy and affectionate with JK—just as he is with all his other members—whether he was petting his head, openly calling him cute, or what have you.

In my view, the most telling thing about JM is how careful he seems around JK—something in his behavior feels tailored in a way that’s still affectionate towards JK but in a way not to rouse suspicion even if the body and eyes don’t lie.

I’m not sure if it even makes sense, but I do sense a certain sense of caution about how JM treats JK in the public eye in comparison to JK who reliably wears his heart on his sleeve. He seems to be more aware of cameras and the public eye than JK does. It’s really hard to verbalize, but I’ve sensed a discernible change in how JM treats JK—it’s not bad or worrisome, it’s just different.(Although, they’ve gradually become a lot more carefree this year.)

Time Skip

I don’t want to bore everyone anymore than I already have, but the point of how I became a more serious supporter compared to my origins as a casual shipper is based off suspicious trends and continuous patterns in the boys’ behaviours over multiple years.

Even now, I continuously try to translate the boys’ body language, vocal tone (when speaking to each other vs. another member), facial expressions, and constant mentions of one another as a platonic demonstration of affection. And some interactions are pretty harmlessly adorable, just a little something to wet the lips of any casual shipper, but with the surmounting amount of moments it becomes really hard for even the most logical person not question the nature of their relationship.

KM and Ship Wars

Clearly, the progression of their relationship has been the target of incredible hatred and frustration on the parts of hostile members of other ships and it’s gotten to a point where they’ve resorted to subterfuge to try pilot a plane missing a wing—that is to say, they’re trying to keep an aircraft based on intentional mistranslations, vicious lies, and carefully crafted stories of events that have been disproven afloat.

The incredible discrepancy between what sorts of behavior can be categorically classified as fan service seems to conveniently shift based on whatever is keeping the fragile balance of their dreams alive despite evidence to the contrary.

The moment we try to discount or negate the relationships a member has with another one in the name of a ship, there’s absolutely a problem that needs reassessment—this goes for all fans including KMers.

KM and Coming Out

I want to clarify very firmly that if you are a true supporter of KM, one who selflessly wants their happiness above everything (which includes everything from the potential of KM having other significant others, KM being single, KM being involved in a fling, etc.), you absolutely do not want or need them to come out.

If they do come out, of their own choice and volition, you can happily support them, but you do not need or seek this from them.

And may I carefully remind people that if you want them to come out for the sole purpose of feeling vindicated against other shippers, you’re not a true supporter and you’re in this for selfish reasons. So, if you imagine your first instinct will be an outcry of “I told you so, I’m right” with the express purpose of throwing it in another ship’s face, please evaluate your role and incentive in being a KMer. It doesn’t matter if you’re right or if you’re wrong—all that matters are these incredible boys who inspire people on the daily are happy, healthy, and well. I honestly want their happiness and safety over a confirmation of a relationship any day and I really encourage all supporters to feel this way as well. In a conservative Asian society, it wouldn’t be easy to maneuver as an openly homosexual man. I implore you to consider the occurrences of hate crimes in more liberal countries. It’s not going to be an improvement, only likely to be a far more isolating experience, in a more traditional country with homophobic tendencies as the majority sentiment. So, while I know most reasonable supporters feel this way, this is a reminder to toxic shippers to stay in your lane and stop demanding things from other human beings that owe you nothing—they don’t owe you pictures of WeVerse, they don’t owe you selfies with one another on Twitter, and they don’t owe you a coming-out story to prove your ship right.

Conclusion

To sum up, I’m not saying that KM is real for sure.

No one can know that except their personnel, their friends, and their family—or sadly, in a conservative country, perhaps even just themselves. The point is, we as fans, absolutely cannot know for certain.

And this is mainly why I'm not too concerned or bothered about timelines or specific dates. We don't know and there's no point (for me) to delve this far into the realm of speculation. But to each their own as long as you're not being invasive to KM!

However, I’m not unconfident in saying that if they are not real, the likelihood of any other same-sex relationship in the band is highly unlikely—though not impossible.

I also want to reassure everyone that I love the bonds between all the members and encourage everyone to understand that even if you favour or don’t favour one member over another to realize that your opinion really doesn’t matter in comparison to how BTS feels about one another—they love one another.

And at the end of the day, shipping isn’t so important that we need to fight over it.

After all, if all we’re trying to do is support love, then shouldn’t we be doling it out to?

And with that, I’m out!

Thank you to anyone for reading and keep well and healthy everyone!

PS Thank you very much to Blarhiv to allowing me to use her blog as a platform! This very, very special individual we should all treasure in the KM community!!!❤️❤️❤️

(omg anonnie this is too cute тттт Thank YOU).

#jikook #Kookmin #jungkook #jeon jungkook #jimin #park jimin

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marshmallowgoop · 5 years

Note

senketsu raped ryuko in their first scene together. shipping them is gross.

It’s fair if you feel it’s a bad pairing.

However, what does sending this rude ask essentially calling me a disgusting person for shipping them accomplish? I’ve written a plethora of essays about how much I hate Senketsu’s first scene, how I don’t fault anyone for disliking the relationship Senketsu and Ryuko share as a result, and how I wish his introduction had been handled differently.

Please don’t act like I don’t recognize and acknowledge the problematic aspects of what I enjoy. I do. If you had attempted to look for this subject on my blog at all, you would see that.

If you’re really interested in a discussion on this, I can link you:

Senketsu’s First Scene*Further Analysis*Even More* Final Thoughts*

What Changes Would You Make to Senketsu’s First Scene?

8 Reasons Folks Can’t Get Down with Pairing a Girl and Her Sailor Uniform Together: Masterpost of Rebuttals to Common Criticisms Against Ryuketsu* (point 5)

Do People Actually Ship Ryuko and Senketsu?

Ryuko’s Choice to Wear Senketsu

Or, to address your main point, I can quote what I’ve already written. From the “Even More” post:

The question of whether or not Senketsu “technically raped” Ryuko is likely something that it is utterly dependent on what you define as “rape.” From what I understand, laws vary everywhere about the issue. Here’s just one article discussing the confusion, for a small, small example of the problem. With a million different definitions about what counts as what and what counts as what where, the terms are blurry. Add in shaky and dangerous ideas about consent, and it’s no wonder so many have to ask, “Wait, was I raped?”

I can only really offer you how I personally view this matter. My definition of “rape” lines up with a generic, dictionary.com definition: “unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.” Applying this to Kill la Kill, then, I don’t think it’s fair to say Senketsu raped Ryuko. They did not have sex. He is not penetrating her. In my personal opinion, I think it’s almost offensive to define this as “rape.”

Is it a rape joke that’s completely and totally disgusting? Absolutely. Is it what I would consider sexual assault? Yes. Senketsu removes Ryuko’s clothing, gropes her breasts, and forces her to wear him when she doesn’t want to. But I wouldn’t categorize it as rape. It’s like forcing someone into a bikini or a leotard when they don’t want to wear it. Awful, yes, harassment, yes, but it irks me to call that “rape,” which is something very serious in my mind that shouldn’t be made light of.

But, really, I’m just getting into semantics. The real question is: Do you think Senketsu’s actions are forgivable, given the situation? This is fantasy. Senketsu’s created from parasitic Life Fibers that want to hurt humans—just take a look at Junketsu and what happens to Kinue. His actions in his introductory scene follow this line and are completely against his characterization for the entire rest of the show. He’s clearly not in his right mind nor himself when this occurs.

From the “Senketsu’s First Scene” post:

… that first scene? That’s something Senketsu is so incredibly afraid of being. It’s probably his greatest fear of all, a fear that’s even reflected in the battle theme “Before My Body is Dry” with the line, “So help me to stay focused so I don’t fall apart.” He really, truly doesn’t want to be that forceful monster he is then. It’s horrifying to him, and that’s the way I think the scene should have been played—as horrifying.

And it’s not like Trigger is incapable of this. The scene where Satsuki first puts on Junketsu is a scary, powerful scene that really shows the monstrous nature of Life Fibers. The scene where Ryuko is forced into Junketsu is also much the same—scary and frightening.

The only reason I can think of Senketsu’s scene being played in the way it is is to show that Senketsu’s not really evil, since the whole thing’s treated as a joke. But… it’s just so jarring. What he’s doing is just the same as what Junketsu’s doing. It’s not funny in the slightest. Add in the not-so-subtle rape joke and it’s plain offensive.

But it’s not like this is an issue just with Senketsu’s first scene. This is my biggest beef with Kill la Kill in general—it, like a lot of anime and media these days, has a nasty habit of playing off sexual harassment and abuse as something hilarious. Personally, I don’t know why Senketsu’s first scene is always used as the worst example of this, since it’s shown to be pretty OOC for him early on and he never acts remotely like it ever again.

Meanwhile, characters like Mako and Aikuro do similar things to Ryuko when they are in their right minds. Mako gropes Ryuko’s breasts in her Hallelujah in episode 3, takes off her bra in the one in episode 5, and constantly invades Ryuko’s personal space and grabs onto her when it clearly makes Ryuko uncomfortable (see the motorcycle scenes in episodes 8 and 17). Yet, this is seen as funny, cute, and romantic. Then there’s Aikuro, who completely disrobes Ryuko in episode 2, immobilizes her with needles while she’s naked, and flirts with her when he’s her teacher and when doing such is completely inappropriate and brings Ryuko a lot of discomfort. And this, again, is seen as funny.

That’s not to say that I want to bash on these characters or pairings. I just ask why it is that these scenes and behaviors are excused as funny and cute when they’re very clearly not, while Senketsu’s first scene is—as it should be!—almost universally agreed to be disgusting and uncomfortable. Ryuko and Senketsu are one of my most favored relationships in all of fiction, but I would never dream of saying that their first meeting is anything adorable or hilarious. I honestly find it frightening that a lot of similar behavior—unwanted touching and removing of clothing—is brushed aside and laughed at because the perpetrator is a sexy teacher or a cute girl.

Of course, Senketsu’s first scene is a lot more intense, and I’m not stupid. I know exactly what they were referencing with it. It deserves to be controversial, and deserves to be spoken up against. But I think the hate against Senketsu for it is pretty… misguided, to say the least. Again, it’s not that it happens that makes it so bad in my eyes. It’s that we’re supposed to find one of Senketsu’s greatest fears hilarious. We’re supposed to think it’s funny that he’s hurting Ryuko, when his character is so utterly devoted to her and so terrified at the thought of bringing her any harm. This is something that I see as really sad, and it’s so disappointing that we don’t get to see Senketsu grapple with it or apologize for it.

Now, “not being in control!” or “not being in his right mind!” aren’t excuses for what Senketsu does, and it will always be awful and unacceptable. Even if he did apologize for it, it doesn’t erase what he did, and I think it’s a fair argument to say that you should stay away from people who have harmed you in the past. Personally, though, I don’t necessarily believe in that. I think people change all the time. Who I am now is different than who I was five years ago, for better or for worse. It’s the now that matters most to me, so in Senketsu’s case, he’s pretty much a darling sweetheart for the majority of the series, which I place a lot more importance on than his actions in a terrible, OOC-introduction scene where he’s overpowered by primal urges and not himself.

There’s definitely something to the idea that some actions are unforgivable, but when it comes to Senketsu, I lean against that. Still, I’m not going to argue with anyone who does feel that way—that’s just as valid as my feelings.

This got quite a bit longer than I intended. Basically, I hate the scene, but mostly because it’s framed as a joke. As someone who has been subjected to sexual harassment, I can firmly say that there’s absolutely nothing “funny” or “cute” about it, and I think it’s really disappointing and gross that the show plays Senketsu’s nasty behavior towards Ryuko in that way. Not only that, but it’s just so against his character, and is thus something incredibly tragic to me. Had it been played as the nightmare that it is to Senketsu, I don’t think the scene would be so widely hated, but instead seen for exactly what it is: a horrifying moment that must cause Senketsu great pain and fear.

From the “Final Thoughts” post:

I just personally am uncomfortable with categorizing Senketsu’s actions in his first scene as rape. Others may very well have their own valid reasons for defining it in that way.

But if the issue is indeed sexual assault, this is a huge problem in Kill la Kill in more ways than simply Senketsu’s introduction, since the show, unfortunately, falls into this common trend of playing off that kind of behavior for laughs …

And believe me, I understand and think it’s totally fair if Senketsu’s behavior in episode 1 makes his relationship with Ryuko uncomfortable or unacceptable to some. But I also think that this conversation needs to be extended more often. Senketsu and Ryuko’s friendship—and Senketsu himself—get so absolutely vilified in amounts that I don’t see concerning Aikuro and especially Mako, which, personally, strikes me as unfair and a double standard. These characters also disrespect and assault Ryuko throughout the series—and when they’re in their right minds, too.

Of course, I don’t mean to accuse you of anything, Anon! I just feel that this issue is so, so much bigger than Senketsu and deserves to be talked about more. It really irks me that I retread this argument so many times whilst similar behavior coming from other characters is hardly called out, instead getting hailed as “cute” and “romantic.” In my opinion, if you’re comfortable pairing Ryuko with Aikuro or Mako and believe her relationships with them can grow and be healthy even after past instances of disrespect and harassment coloring their interactions (as I do!), then I don’t see any reason to think differently concerning Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship.

And, finally, from the “8 Reasons” post:

In my mind, there are bigger issues with the series’ handling of assault than Senketsu’s first scene, but beyond that, Senketsu is honestly probably the most respectful character towards Ryuko in the entire show. He never forces her to wear him when she doesn’t want to—and the fact that Ryuko does take him off multiple times across the series when she doesn’t want to emphasizes that her wearing of him isn’t her being a poor prisoner, but her choosing to be with him—and Senketsu values Ryuko’s thoughts and opinions, openly communicates with her, and constantly considers her wellbeing.

As I once put it, “[Senketsu] is nothing like that first scene in all actuality, and Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship is built not on nonconsensual behaviors and violence, but on respect and understanding.”

tl;dr, please stop acting like I don’t acknowledge the problems in Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship. I can like something and understand that it’s not perfect. I can like something and understand that others might hate it and think (fairly) that it’s offensive.

I don’t want to make assumptions, but considering I’ve only been getting these mean-spirited asks since I wrote out my thoughts on Ragyo and got attacked for it, I figure there’s a connection. Please stop acting like my criticisms of Ragyo were somehow unique to her. I probably have more criticisms about Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship than even the biggest haters of the pairing, and I love them to pieces.

You can like something and also understand that not everyone will and might even find it problematic. Please stop sending me nasty, personally insulting messages about what I like when I have never, ever shamed you (or anons who think like you) for liking Ragyo.

#Anonymous #replies #the discourse #serious talk #rape mention #abuse mention #i didn't want to answer this because i don't owe these rude anons anything and if they really want to look into what i think on the subject #it's all organized right on my blog #it's not hard to find #but i hear this argument a lot so maybe others will find value in seeing these quotes #back when erica mendez had a tumblr she liked that 'senketsu's first scene' post and that was really validating #kill la kill #ryuketsu

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coldalbion · 6 years

Note

Part 1: I was Odin and Loki devotee for 3 years and I considered having quite a strong connection with both of them despite of being a noob so to say. At one point I tried to become part of a certain small pagan community, because I felt I needed a pack; I didn't know much about anything and wanted to learn. Couple of months went well. Then I found out admin was a manipulative closet nazi and gay/transphobe.

Part 2: The rest of the ppl there didn't mind it at all in the name of "tolerating different opinions" and just laughed it off. I was so outraged, and I left. However, they too were norse pagans or inclined in one way or another towards the practice. They were talking like the gods had their back, helped them to get forward and agreed with what they were doing. Tried to talk me to "open my mind" to it as well.Part 3: When I was younger, I used to loathe everything monoteism related because of people like that. Now the same fury I thought had already been dead and buried, emerged stronger than ever, and this time it wasn't aimed at monoteism, but norse gods. I felt betrayed and used. I thought I'll rather be alone than have anything to do with deities who hang out with nazis or other human scum, while crying my eyes out and getting rid of my altar.Part 4: A friend tried to tell me to be reasonable, reminded me they're just people and people can talk shit or be deluded, and asked do I trust more the gods or people. I answered "I don't trust anybody anymore. Everyone can just fuck off." Now it feels like I've chopped off my own arm and run into space, far away from Earth, and just drifting there with nowhere to go. Like I would've lost one of my senses. It's dead silent.Still, just a thought of putting the altar back pisses me off, as everything norse related reminds me of those people. And I hate it as well how big of an infuence they have over me. I'm not even sure why am I writing this. I was thinking have you or someone of your followers perhaps had similar experiences and how did they overcome it?

That’s a horrible thing to have happen anon, and it’s never easy to experience betrayal - particularly when it’s in an arena where you feel that you were an individual who knew less, and in a sense looked up to those others as worthy of respect. I can only imagine what it felt like to have folks you used to consider pack, people you thought worthy and trusted to watch your back and look out for your spiritual well being, embrace or give time to such vile ideas which should never be tolerated.It’s bad enough when authors or authorities you respected turn out to not be what you thought they were, or espouse sentiments that are anathema to our own sense of justice and right living, let alone when those ideas have been proven to lead to atrocity after atrocity, violations of body and soul for thousands, nay, millions of people.So I understand you anger, and your sense of loss, because while the circumstances were different, I too have felt the gutting horror, the rising bile, and the brutal bruising of the soul under such an abuse. Because make no mistake, abuse of trust is abuse. When we make ourselves vulnerable to another, when we open our hearts enough to allow others to draw us along on a journey, we take a risk, allowing them to come into contact with pieces of ourselves we do not often expose in ordinary life. When we extend them that privilege - and make no mistake, it is a privilege - in a very real sense we give them access to the private laws, those intimate paths of thought and action we lay down which govern our inner lives, and we expect people to abide by them when in those spaces. True friends acknowledge those laws, and abide by them in interactions with us - even if they don’t always agree completely, in toto, because they respect us, and wish us to prosper. The recognise that these laws are the root-channels our life-force has forged throughout our existence, and they respect that which animates us - that which brings us Life and More Life. That which allows us to become More ourselves.This doesn’t mean that they should kowtow to us, but that they should act with respect towards us, and when in our orbit behave in a manner which is regarded by all parties as respectful within the context of relationship. Thus, I can have a respectful relationship with a friend even if our interactions seem naught but insulting to each other, because, contrary to what might appear to outsiders, we both know the insights arise out of love and respect.I mention respect, because many people have an inorganic ossified notion of respect, and honour and the like. They do not understand that they are both properties of betweenness - bonds between groups and individuals, gods and human, friends, siblings, parents and children etc. When those bonds, those shared agreements, implicit, or explicit, are broken ? Life, sense, meaning? They are disrupted - the flow of the world, its rhythms, its pulses, are thrown into disarray.Anger, rage - these are primal emotions, primal forces. Raw powers unleashed in some manner to grasp, to shape the world into new meanings, either by defending our integrity, or allowing us to gain a foothold in the world by overpowering things enough for us to make sense of them. In the service of Life, in the service of hope and kindness? They are holy things, but like many things, perhaps all things, they can be debased, can be twisted or turn harmful. When combined with fear, they can lead to atrocities, as we mentioned earlier.Make no mistake then, anon, but believe me when I say: You have been wronged. You have been wronged, and have every right to be angry. You have been wronged by people, not gods. But your anger at the gods is understandable. After all, it was for, and through them, that you encountered the people who abused your trust.So when you friend asked you whether you trusted the gods, I understand what they were trying to do. But the truth is, it has very little to do with the gods at all, except in a manner which I’ll come to into a moment.It is not surprising that your rage is also spilling over towards the gods, despite that sense of loss that you mention. Not surprising at all, not only for reasons you yourself mention, but also because you do not wish to be like those people who broke your trust, and what bound you to them was, seemingly, the gods. Was altars and shrines and hailing the names of Odin and Loki. To honour those gods is do as they did.So. Do not do as they did. Forgo the altars. Forgo the blots. Forgo the poisoned practice. Forgo “Anything Norse” as you put it. Those bonds are shattered. Let the anger rage, righteously.Let the fury have its head. Let it roar, let it surge, let it pulse. Let the pain of the wound sing. And know this, as you drift above the earth, senseless..The gods are. They are not their names (How can they be, when Odin has hundreds?) They are not their shrines. They are not their so-called worshippers.The gods were.A thousand years before your birth, they interacted with humans.

The gods will be.With you, or without. Long after you die, they remain. After this generation, and the next, and the next. No one raised up their names or gave them cultus, or erected altars or shrines for centuries.Yet still, they impacted upon you.Think about that, for a moment. Across all of space and time, down the centuries, down the generations, they made contact, and you forged a bond.

Independently.Before your betrayers ever came into your life, it was You And Them.Before Nazi scumfucks were even a glimmer in Hitler’s grandparents eye, there they were.Before your betrayal, your relationship with them was good, was prosperous, yes? It served the purpose of Life, enhanced your existence, and in doing so, enhanced the existences of those around you, yes?And those arseholes took that from you. Made the forms and functions of your spiritual life into things of hate and apologism for hate.How fucking dare they?!How dare they break something holy, how dare they violate frith like that?So. Consider this: If I feel your rage, who else does? If I regard such violation as a crime, who else might?Suppose, just for a second, for a moment, that the anger, the disgust you feel at anything resembling ‘Norse’ as presented by our society right now? Suppose it’s not just yours. Suppose it’s theirs too.Suppose for a moment that those signs and symbols by which you previously navigated your relationship with The Master of Fury and the Mother of Sleipnir, are indeed poisoned for you.Suppose therefore that your anger may (or may not) be a sign from them, a desire to develop a more intimate relationship with them, beyond name and form, beyond ‘Norse’ into pure Life, existence itself. To form new bonds which cannot be contaminated by society, and in fact might lead to the destruction of poisonous ideas, via a more organic betweeness - a vitalistic, enthusing, Life-affirming relationship of frith between all things, which by definition opposes hate?My advice anon: Allow your fury to guide you to the place where you feel whole. I suspect you’ll meet some strangely familiar folks, though their faces may be different.Be well, and know that I understand.

#the old man #*loki #*odin #them #Anonymous

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clairen45 · 6 years

Note

Thank you so much for you bird meta, I used to compare Porgs to Ewoks, now I love 'em! I'd really love to have your insight on two matters I came upon rewatching Kylo scenes in TFA 1) did he know he was going to kill Han all along (and play his dad with the "will you help me?" speech?) or wasn't his mind made until the last second? 2) Did he sense Rey before he was told about her? Otherwise why ask for BB8 to be "unharmed" (metaphor for Rey?) and say "again" when feeling the pull to the light?

Dear Anon,

I am sorry it took me some time to answer your question… Thank you for the kind comments on the bird meta. I know Ewoks have their fans, but like you, it seems, I was never one of them. They were ok enough as a concept, and I see the point of having them to show a point about David and Goliath, guerilla warfare, and the fact that nature always wins in the end. I know they were also supposed to be cutesy and appeal to kids. I was a kid when the movie was originally relased and they never appealed to me. If anything they upset me. Plus, they are not so cutesy: they would have gladly eaten the whole crew had they had the chance. It’s not just Granola and Tree hugging, you guys, they are vicious hunters and carnivorous. As far as I am concerned they have four redeeming qualities:

they did a great makeover on Leia

I love their village (which also makes for the best Lego set honestly)

they introduced Warwick Davis to the world (I am a fan of Willow and I love that this actor is in every Star Wars movise since ROTJ. It’s like a Where’s Warwick game every time).

The Nub Yub song (which was outrageously deleted from the edited versions of the OT and turned into crappy Pan flute music)

And then there is the unspeakable: the Ewok movies they did afterwards. Brrrrr…. Talk about crappy spin offs! I know they want to forget about them, but they did, they did! So, no, for me, you can’t compare the Porgs and the Ewoks. I don’t think porgs are as intrusive as Ewoks were. And also, where porgs represent fertility and the resilience of life and love, Ewoks were evil cock-blockers. They were!!!! Items: trying to get Han’s attention away from Leia by cuddling with his leg, or jumping in in the middle of their kiss after the destruction of the Death Star. No, that’s not cute!

Now, back to your important questions. That is some heavy stuff!

1)Did he know he was going to kill Han, and was he playing cat and mouse with him? NO, to the N, to the O. I don’t believe it one minute. First, remember that he senses his father. He knows he is on Starkiller base. In one deleted scene, he even finds the MF. Is he tracking his father? Not really… He is more about looking for the girl. In the movie, we know he is aware his father is near him, because he turns his head in the direction of Han. Twice he pauses, when entering the structure, and then when passing by his father hidden behind a column. Does he go after him? No, far from it: he stomps away as far as he can… When his father calls him, he also pauses, not turning right away, as if debating…as if delaying as much as he can. He avoids the confrontation. I think he is probably scared of the outcome. By the way, love the symbolism of the bridge. It conveys the idea of a decision being suspended, not made, of a transition, of being caught in the middle. He hasn��t fully crossed the bridge yet, he is at the midpoint: it can go any place from there. Which to me is there to signify that the decision of killing his father has NOT been made. And I don’t think that he was toying with him either. He starts angry and aggressive, but, with the actual mask off, there falls also the psychological mask and the cool façade.

I believe everything about his pain and dilemma. This is a boy who has been requested to kill his father because he loved him too much and that it was seen as a weakness. He is not allowed any attachment. Take the important line: “[your son] was weak and foolish, like his father. So I destroyed him”. Killing his father is really more about killing himself, his feelings, his emotions, what Snoke views as abject sentimentalism. Han is the embodiment of sentimentalism. And we know that Kylo has not been able to suppress his emotions twice: when looking at Finn after the village massacre (which brought forth his feelings of guilt), and when meeting Rey (compassion, desire, curiosity). Meeting his father is the ultimate test in TFA, and a test where he miserably fails before and after the deed: he is unable to repress his emotions before and after killing his father. His face tells it all. And if it were not clear enough (apparently it wasn’t for a lot of people), Snoke was very vocal about the failure of the whole thing: ‘‘the deed split you to the bone”, “you have too much the heart of your father”. The whole line about “the seed lives” can also very much apply about Solo. Yes, Ben is the seed of the Jedi through his mother, but he is very much so the seed of his father. That’s actually the whole point of the “seed” reference. Han still lives through him, because he has not been able to kill his emotions, his feelings.

In th novelizations, especially the Junior one, they give us more clues about that. Both novelizations (adult and junior) insist on the fact that Ben has tears in his eyes during his conversation with his father. And in the adult version, we know this is no ploy: Kylo was not expecting to cry, the sensation seems unfamiliar and strange to him. In the adult version, though, Kylo seems more intent on looking after his father, trying to find his hiding place, “prepared for whatever might ensue”. Dark Kylo is still very much a topic. But in the Junior novelization, this is very different. Han is not sure whether his son saw him or not (which hints that maybe he did but chose to ignore), and then passes him by (instead of looking for him in the adult version). Emphasis is put on the sadness in Kylo’s eyes, which is actually the last vision Han has of his son, and his last vision before dying: a boy with sad eyes. Not cruel. Not victorious. The description of Kylo through Han’s eyes is also very reminiscent of someone who has been abused: “everything about him was narrow and stark, as if he had starved himself of nourrishment”. Kylo is like a member of a cult, or a sect, that has been brainwashed: such sects usually rely on sleep and food deprivation…

So, yes, this is a last second decision. As the light suddenly turning dark underlines. It’s like a cloud passing in front of the sun, something that curiously happened to Luke as well when debating about killing Kylo, two moments that are key in his arc, then. The fleeting moment when Luke hesitates but DOES NOT kill his nephew is what loses Ben, and turns him into Kylo, strong dark sider.. The fleeting moment when Kylo hesitates and KILLS Han is what weakens the dark sider. Interesting parallel.

2)Did he sense Rey before he was told about her? Otherwise why ask for BB8 to be “unharmed” (metaphor for Rey?) and say “again” when feeling the pull to the light?

I really hope we will eventually get the idea that he had visions of Rey before meeting her. It may have been distorted or partial. Or maybe it happened when he was a kid and he barely remembers. Rey’s Force vision was hinting at some prior knowledge, since we were supposed to get young Ben with Snoke (which they kept in the novelizations), and that in the movie Kylo’s figure is turning towards her twice. Of course, these could be visions of the future. And this is how we can tell that the visions are partial or distorted because there is no reason in the future for him to keep his mask. Of course, we know from Yoda, that the visions of the future are everchanging and Kylo, at the time, was intent on keeping his mask, so the future had not been altered yet… Anyways, there is someting eery about his reactions to “the girl”. Everyone caught up on that. And I think this eeriness is also a big part of what prompted the whole; she is his sister, his cousin, or what not… Because everybody got the idea that he had prior knowledge of her: “the girl I have heard so much about”. This is a weird line because honestly he has only heard talk about “a girl” twice in the movie: from Mitaka and from the stormtrooper saying that a girl was spotted in the forest… That’s not a lot of intel. It doesn’t come from Snoke either, because even if he starts talking about an awakening, he doesn’t mention a girl at all, and in TLJ he seems surprised that Rey is the opposite in the Force to Kylo. Kylo acknowledges Rey as the awakening when he sees her with the saber.. I doubt that they conducted an investigation on Jakku about the girl… It’s a possibility, but I doubt it. So it must be something else… Dreams, visions? Will we ever know? That’s the best possibility, though.

I like your idea of the parallel between Rey and BB8. Kylo does start looking for the droid, and yes, he wants it “unharmed”. To be honest, there is no reason normally for the stormtroopers to be shooting at a droid, especially a rather innocuous BB unit (I know BB8 is bad ass, but still…). Shooting at the droid might damage the information it carries, so I understand he wants to minimize possible damages, but still, it is a weird way of thinking. And indeed the BB unit is off his mind as soon as he sees Rey. Admittedly because he knows she has seen the map, but before he retrieves this information from her head, it would have made more sense for him to be looking after the droid than the girl. Who would care about the girl? He does? He goes straight for her. And this substitution is weird enough that even Hux acknowledges it when Kylo is speaking to Snoke. This is unconventional. Of course, Kylo can rationalize by finding excuses such as “she has seen the map”, “she is strong with the Force” so potentially valuable, but the fact is that he strayed from the original mission.

As for the pull to the light, I am not suprised that he says “again”. I am sure that must have happened to him many times. It just becomes stronger because his coming to Jakku has triggered the dormant connection between him and Rey…

Thank you again for the questions! I hope I have covered them ok enough…

#reylo fandom #kylo and rey #ewoks and porgs #kylo and han

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eeveelutionsforequality · 6 years

Text

Submission:

I'm the MAP anon: I'm gonna be honest with you, so much of your MAP discourse is a) long and rather unwieldy to read and b) seemingly focused on only the intrusive thoughts as a reason not to blame MAPs for anything. It was hard to get a read on your position, as my experience with you was you defending anti-contact MAPs, and given the person's blog I sent you say they're anti-contact, it came off as you defending them as well.

To clarify: my argument was in the scope of that anti-contact, who was still actively and wilfully sexualising minors, one of which was indeed an actual child and another who was being sexualised for when they were a child.

I @ed you not because of anything you said specifically anyway, but because you seemed to be the MAP expert on the blog. You couldn't have known that of course.

Lastly, please bear in mind that:

a) the person I sent you is someone I found through a third party blog, in addition to the fact that you yourself go on about them a lot, so all your instances of you chastising me for “seeking out” MAPs is pointless, and

b) the MAP in those screenshots states they're anti-contact, so this isn't just about the "bad" side of MAPs. It's perfectly reasonable for an outsider to see people like her and think that “anti-contact” is one stop above virtue signalling, and they're just as irredeemable. You know how people go on about how feminists need to do in-house cleaning if they want to avoid people disliking the movement? It's the same for the MAP community as well.

That said: I do genuinely apologise for not reading your arguments through properly. As much as an excuse as this sounds, my executive dysfunction issues make it hard to read as many paragraphs as you write on this subject - I am trying, but still, I dropped the ball a bit. I'm also sorry as well that I basically forced you to reiterate points you've already made probably a fair number of times before, because I know that's annoying af.

So that said, any instance I was misrepresenting your arguments you're free to ignore and I won't respond to your refutements of them since bascially we are actually much on the same page now I know who I'm talking to. There are a bunch of other things I could address but I feel it would be a waste of both our times, so I'll focus only on a few things that really jumped out.

------------------------------------

what about the countries where young boys and girls are routinely used as prostitutes, where assaulting young boys regularly is “tradition”?

[...]

Maybe I’m just manipulated, maybe there’s some grand scheme to turn everybody in the western world into pro-contacts, and a tiny anti-contact community on tumblr dot com is where the disgusting revolution begins… but I highly doubt it.

The old “what about starving children in Africa” argument is not a decent counterpoint to anything since people started using it. One (1) submission to you about MAPs isn't me deciding that's more important issue of child abuse, and you have no idea what else I could be doing day to day.

Also: have you considered that the reason I even sent that in the first place is because of places like that? For example: the west has a keen problem with sexualising young boys, telling them that if older women prey on them they should be grateful, and that it's not rape because boys inherently want sex 24/7. So that MAP and others like her are an issue because hey, they aren't helping that.

Small-scale abuse is still abuse. One minor being preyed on it too many. Other, truly non-offending MAPs getting caught in the crossfire is unfortunate though.

(Also I thought you'd appreciate the juxtaposition of your “child abuse is acceptable on a societal level in some places” comment and the sarcastic “who's trying to make child abuse acceptable on a societal level?” comment.)

[…] but I don’t think that means that they’re not ever allowed to talk about it, or that it’s harming children if they ever do, just that it’s gotta be done safely and reasonably.

You sound just like an anti-shipper right now, honestly.

[...]

Do you feel the same way about people who ship certain ships and talk openly about it?

I knew you were going to bring in anti-shipping. I had had no idea why you would then, and I don't now, but I knew you were going to do it.

Anti arguments are ridiculous because they're about fiction. Getting off to Loli hurts no one because no child was abused to get those pictures. Shipping a 17 yo with a 25 yo, or an abusive relationship, or whatever hurts no one because they aren't real.

MAPs are real people attracted to real minors, so any argument against discussions of their attraction can't just be conflated with anti-shipping. You've already given me plenty of other decent enough reasons, bringing in anti-shipping is at best redundant and at worst conflates real life attraction to minors, and the expression thereof, with fiction. Remember one of the most important points in the anti anti argument is that reality and fiction aren't the same.

Also I don't appreciate being inferred as some kind of pearl-clutcher because I find it abhorrent to have come across an “anti-contact” MAP making explicit comments about at least three real children, one of which they were discussing with another MAP. Half the point was it wasn't done safely or reasonably.

Idk is there a word that differentiates anti-contacts who are like her and anti-contacts who find anything like that abhorrent? If not, that'd be my advice to the community.

If you demonize the act of thinking that thought and the thought itself, rather than the content of the thought if made real, what do you hope to achieve other than causing unnecessary mental strain on a person that could negatively impact their coping?

[...]

That’s like saying that my arthritis isn’t okay, it’s not reasonable… like, it doesn’t matter, I’ve still got arthritis.

You seem to have the wrong idea – I'm not demonising the act of having the thought. I'm demonising the content of said thought, as well as the shitty way it can be (and was in that example) expressed.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point tbh. My mother's rheumatoid isn't okay, you may think it's pointless to bring it up but she sees the fact that people don't really acknowledge how “not okay” it is as irritating.

Half the reason I've been able to deal with my depression was acknowledging my thoughts about myself aren't okay, and the only reason I went to the doctor in the first place. The more I remind myself that the contents of those self-hating thoughts aren't okay (namely that it would be actively abusive to be saying these things to someone else for the same reason I say them to myself), the more I'm taking care of myself.

The kind of intrusive thoughts we're talking about with MAPs are probably a different breed to mine, of course. However: that MAP and her pals would do well remembering that the contents of her thoughts, though not something she can help having, are not okay, because the way she's expressing that indicates she very much doesn't care.

You may think it's not important. I disagree.

------------------------------------

There are other things as I said but ehhhh there's no point in arguing with someone you agree with on most things on the basis that we're on differing sides on less important ones. Kinda embarassed I ended up being someone who doesn't do their due dilligence eheh, this is a viceral topic for me so I got ahead of myself. Sorry again.

Previous submission: http://eeveelutionsforequality.tumblr.com/post/167987980707/submission-mod-vaporeon-i-guess-look-i-aint-a

"focused on only the intrusive thoughts as a reason not to blame MAPs for anything"

Not what I'm doing. Maps don't necessarily have intrusive thoughts, they have thoughts and attractions that they didn't choose to have - intrusive thoughts are just something I have that is comparable, and thus that I can empathize with them through. Intrusive thoughts are also something antis have taken to demonizing too lately, and I find that kind of thought policing to be dangerous to those suffering with unwanted thoughts. But none of that means that I'm removing blame from actions or speech.

"given the person's blog I sent you say they're anti-contact, it came off as you defending them as well"

I don't follow cinnamap, but I know that they're anti-contact. If my arguments defending anti-contact positions are also defending their position on those topics, then I'm glad we agree on those things, but that doesn't extend to me defending every view cinnamap has or everything they've ever done.

"my argument was in the scope of that anti-contact"

I apologize for assuming, by your wording and your claims that it was proof of a larger problem in their community, that you were extending blame to other anti-contact maps or justifying judgement against them based on those actions. As I said in the other post, I'll happily have a conversation about how to avoid and rectify situations like those posts.

"who was still actively and wilfully sexualising minors"

I know this is dark and I don't wanna have to say it, honestly it's awful to think about but... at the end of the day, that's what their condition is. The paraphilia is a sexual attraction to children. It can't be magicked away, only coped with. The conversation we're having, in regards to cinnamap, was whether that particular instance of "coping" was more harmful than good to them and others, and how to mitigate that in the future.

"so all your instances of you chastising me for “seeking out” MAPs is pointless"

I wasn't chastising you for that, I had no idea how you came across the stuff - I was chastising antis who actively seek it out to trigger themselves and to attack people. It's not healthy for them and it doesn't help prevention efforts.

"the MAP in those screenshots states they're anti-contact, so this isn't just about the "bad" side of MAPs. It's perfectly reasonable for an outsider to see people like her and think that “anti-contact” is one stop above virtue signalling"

In some of the reblogs on this post, I've talked about, to paraphrase, how pro-contacts are all assholes, but that doesn't mean that anti-contacts are incapable of being assholes: http://eeveelutionsforequality.tumblr.com/post/167769139872/what-the-hell-are-maps

Just because a stance or behaviour isn't pro-contact doesn't mean that it's not flawed or bad in some way. I don't think that anti-contacts are all angels, but judging all anti-contacts by the bad eggs within their anti-contact community (which is what I was saying in the last post), especially when the core of the stance is such an important thing in prevention, would be daft.

Additionally, anti-contact isn't just virtue signaling in this case, it's a stance genuinely held and maintained by cinnamap - anti-contact refers to sexual or romantic contact, criminal offenses, it doesn't refer to whether or not you talk about kids. If I hold the stance that theft is wrong, it doesn't become virtue signaling to hold and maintain that stance even if I'm completely fine with saying that I sometimes think about driving a Ferrari (which I could never afford, ergo would have to steal in order to drive) - as long as I don't steal the Ferrari, I'm still maintaining the morality that I espouse. People read a lot into "anti-contact" and want it to mean more than it does, and then accuse someone who fully adheres to the actual definition of the label, of not being anti-contact because they don't adhere to the add-ons.

It's unreasonable to judge an entire community by a couple of posts written by one person - if somebody is too lazy to do further research into the community and what opinions are essential to it, and what opinions are varied, then they shouldn't be commenting on that community or passing judgements. That's even more extreme than saying that it's perfectly reasonable to judge all football fans by the actions of the football hooligans, without researching what it means to be a football fan or what the vast majority of them are like.

"You know how people go on about how feminists need to do in-house cleaning if they want to avoid people disliking the movement? It's the same for the MAP community as well"

Which is a stance I supported in the very post you're replying to.

"The old “what about starving children in Africa” argument is not a decent counterpoint to anything since people started using it"

That wasn't what I was saying, and I'm sorry that I worded it in a way that could be read as such. I was saying that there are places where such things are normalized, but those practices in those places are considered abominable by our society, there's global effort to prevent them, there's hatred across the western world for pedophilia that exceeds the hatred people have for cannibalistic murderous psychopaths by a longshot. My point was that it isn't going to be normalized here, and that anti-contacts don't want the action normalized or legalized whatsoever, but that there are people out there who do and anti-contacts are as against those people as you and I. My argument was more that what you're talking about is being done by a completely different group and opposed by this group, because from your wording I believed your argument to be that there was some effort within the anti-contact community to normalize assaulting kids.

"Also I thought you'd appreciate the juxtaposition of your “child abuse is acceptable on a societal level in some places” comment and the sarcastic “who's trying to make child abuse acceptable on a societal level?” comment."

Given that my point was "these people are, these people aren't", how do the points at all contradict? Also, it wasn't sarcastic - I genuinely do highly doubt that there's some manipulation conspiracy to normalize it step by step, but it's not impossible, and it's not impossible that good intentioned small movements with positive goals end up supporting much eviler movements, look at radical feminism. Hence why I push so hard for their community to not become an echochamber.

"I knew you were going to bring in anti-shipping. I had had no idea why you would then, and I don't now, but I knew you were going to do it."

I should've expanded on that point:

a) In regards to the words normalizing things and harming the wider populace - it's a tiny hated group on a tiny hated website, it has no normalizing power in the real world, and when done properly (adequately tagged, nsfw, private, etc), it wouldn't fall into the lap of anybody vulnerable enough to be hurt by it (aside from when blogs like the one you linked spreading it in screenshots that other people don't adequately tag, I suppose). One example definitely isn't normalizing anything.

b) You can completely normalize an idea, be 100% okay with the idea, fantasize about it 24/7 (which cinnamap wasn't doing but whatever), and the action still isn't normalized. I've watched so much horror, and I daydream about murder on the regular, I daydream about murdering noisy kids in the shop or people who've wronged me or the neighbour that puts up too many Christmas lights... but I've never killed anybody to my knowledge. I know that murder is wrong and I don't want to actually do it... even if I figuratively want to do it. There's a huge difference between fantasy and action, even when you're fantasizing about real people or actively discussing them.

Along those two veins, I believe that your argument has some of the same flaws as anti-shipper arguments, in regards to the normalizing power of the target group and words in general, and in regards to the level of effect that normalization could have on actions.

"Anti arguments are ridiculous because they're about fiction"

Even if fantasy is about real people, it's still fantasy - a description of a historical figure's aesthetic in a fictional book with commentary on their aesthetic appeal is still fiction. If you have a rape fantasy about somebody you actually know, it's still just a fantasy. From where I stand, as somebody who knows none of those people, as an outsider, there is no difference to the post's impact on me whether cinnamap was talking about a real person or a fictional character. The porn blogs that post short rape stories with gifs to match, and word them as though they're true stories from themselves or others, come across as more real and visceral, and they get put in all sorts of coping and mental health tags without being marked as NSFW.

Honestly, if "I saw a hot kid" on your personal blog that's covered in the word "map", marked as nsfw, and keeping the post out of random tags, is the worst you're doing, you're not really one of the bad bad ones, like, just have a little perspective regarding what they could be doing. It's just words, at the end of the day (disturbing words, but still just words that can be criticized), and I think this conversation alone, let alone the notes on the post you linked, has shown that people will come out in force against that and attempt to correct that behaviour... which is good, as I said, I'm against the post and even small problems are still problems - they're just not problems that justify assuming everyone in the community to be not genuine about the anti-contact position.

This isn't to say "there's worse out there so we can't complain", but rather, complain on par with what is happening - having a little suspicion about their morality and extending questions about that and expressing discomfort with the wording I can definitely understand, especially if you're not very aware of things like what anti-contact means or haven't read any of their other posts, but I cannot understand condemning the whole community with it, accusing it of "normalizing" anything, exaggerating its capability for causing harm, or assuming it a definitive statement on that person's moral code or intent regarding action.

I disagree with the posts, as I've said, I think it was crude and potentially very triggering, but I don't think it had any power to normalize anything or inflict large-scale harm - like anti-shippers, you're inflating the reach and impact of the post, when I think a simpler critique is warranted. If my friend gets drunk and gets into a fight in the pub, I don't say "Your anti-murder stance is basically virtue signaling, I can't trust you or any pub-goers, you're normalizing murder", I say "Stop being a dick, Frank".

"MAPs are real people attracted to real minors, so any argument against discussions of their attraction can't just be conflated with anti-shipping."

I'm not conflating them, I was remarking on an error in your argument that is also an error in theirs - comparison, not conflating. I'm sorry that it came across like I was though, it was badly worded.

"Also I don't appreciate being inferred as some kind of pearl-clutcher"

I wasn't inferring that, I was inferring that your argument had some of the same flaws as theirs. Just because you're both emotionally opposed to something and believe that it causes significant harm and poses significant risk doesn't mean that I'd refer to you both with the same pejorative label - especially when I've expressed opposition to that same post multiple times myself.

"Idk is there a word that differentiates anti-contacts who are like her and anti-contacts who find anything like that abhorrent? If not, that'd be my advice to the community."

I've expressed something similar about the opinion of keeping their distance from kids: http://eeveelutionsforequality.tumblr.com/post/167831648067/did-you-even-try-to-address-any-of-the-points-on

Whether they should divide into smaller groups based on these opinion differences, or whether they should just leave it down to "we're obviously gonna disagree on some things even though we agree on others", is up to them to talk out amongst themselves.

"You seem to have the wrong idea – I'm not demonising the act of having the thought. I'm demonising the content of said thought, as well as the shitty way it can be (and was in that example) expressed."

If the content of the thought is demonized in the context of a thought, and not simply demonizing it in the context of action or specific kinds of expression of that thing, then you are demonizing the act of having the thought. I, personally, think the thoughts are gross and disturbing, however I'm not going to extend ethical judgment to that as the thoughts are not optional, just my own personal emotional judgement that allows people to understand that I don't personally want to hear that stuff unless I've been asked first if I'm in a mood where I can handle hearing it (for example if I'm needed to offer some kind of emotional help through a tough brain day).

There's a big difference between demonizing something, and acknowledging the risks of dwelling on something, acknowledging the emotional impact of it, acknowledging that it would be horrific in reality. A thought is just a thought, just a fantasy, just fiction - like I said in one of the posts I linked to you in my prior response, thoughts definitely can lead to behaviour, but if you're aware that it shouldn't be acted upon and you make the correct safety nets and decisions to prevent such a thing, there's no real reason to begin demonizing something that you cannot help, something that you're forced to mentally endure at length regularly, instead of simply coming to terms with the fact that it's just neurons firing and it has no power. Taking away its power actually helps with resisting.

"My mother's rheumatoid isn't okay, you may think it's pointless to bring it up but she sees the fact that people don't really acknowledge how “not okay” it is as irritating."

The point is that the arthritis not being okay doesn't reflect on the person who has the arthritis - if I'd done something you disliked, you wouldn't bring up the ethics of my arthritis as a way to insult me. If I'd stayed in bed all day because I couldn't move because of my arthritis, you wouldn't say "arthritis isn't okay, it's not reasonable, just get up". Whether the arthritis is "okay" or not doesn't change the fact that it's there, doesn't change whether or not I'm a good person, was my point. Whether it's "okay", in the context of a conversation where it's actually useful to discuss that, would be in reference to how much pain it causes, the stress it causes, the impact it has on life, how to mitigate those things (sympathetic not accusatory) - whether it's "okay" has no place in a conversation about morality. You're switching between two meanings of "okay" and two contexts of using it, and using one to justify the other.

I can't believe that you took my point so out of context here and you sound like you're implying that me, somebody with arthritis, is sat here going "I wish people would just never acknowledge how much it hurts".

You said: “We can accept that MAPs have little to no control over their attraction without accepting that their attraction is valid, reasonable or worth discussing except to demonise.”

Valid and reasonable are both judgements on whether something can or should exist or happen - something unreasonable and invalid should not happen. My point was that there is no point making ethical or logical judgments on the person or on the existence of arthritis or the thoughts, because those things exist and cannot just disappear - demonizing my arthritis, or them demonizing the thoughts, only leads to stress, while accepting limitations, addressing risks, and learning mindfulness are substantially better when faced with things that you can't change than anger and distress. Validity and okayness were pointless to bring up in the context in which you brought them up, because whether valid or invalid, reasonable or unreasonable, okay or not okay, these things are here to stay.

"The more I remind myself that the contents of those self-hating thoughts aren't okay [...]"

What are we using okay to mean now? You seem to change what "okay" means a few times in your replies, initially implying it means "ethical" but now implying it means "healthy".

You could change your thoughts, they can't. Healthy or ethical don't matter - if the conversation is about judgement or whether they should or shouldn't have them - if they're inevitable. If we're talking about reminding yourself of the emotional strain such thoughts can have on others if said to them, reminding yourself that they're dangerous thoughts to allow to consume you, and so on, then yes I believe that's good to remind yourself. If we're using "okay" to mean "ethical" again, and demonizing the thoughts and thereby demonizing the act of thinking them and the person who thinks them, leading to low self-esteem, isolation, and other emotional issues that can increase the risk of offending, then no I don't think it's a good idea for them to remind themselves of that.

"However: that MAP and her pals would do well remembering that the contents of her thoughts, though not something she can help having, are not okay, because the way she's expressing that indicates she very much doesn't care."

A better way to word this - if you mean what I think you mean, or what I would want to say - would be to remember the risk of discomfort to others that comes with the expression of such thoughts, and remember that your wording can convey to others a sense of how strongly you do or do not wish to refrain from very disturbing actions, and however strongly and genuinely you actually feel about that refraining they can't read minds and will make assumptions. Thoughts are just neurons firing, I won't bother judging ethically something that isn't harming anybody, I'm not the thought police - the behaviour is what causes the harm. Once the behaviour is controlled and the thoughts cannot overpower mental and physical safeguards, they're absolutely amoral.

"Kinda embarassed I ended up being someone who doesn't do their due dilligence eheh, this is a viceral topic for me so I got ahead of myself. Sorry again."

That's okay, I've actually been really mentally fucked - depressed, hallucinating, all that fun stuff. And this topic kinda makes me wanna die sometimes. My responses haven't been fantastic and I'm sorry that it's not been a very smooth chat.

#Mod Vaporeon #submission

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kyojinofbraveos · 7 years

Note

I don’t quite agree with you in saying that RBA + Zeke are thoroughly brainwashed by Marley; maybe when they’re young but when they went inside wall, they know there’re no bad eldian but still they chose to carry through their initial goal rather than helping their own Eldian nation. Especially Zeke, if anyone who brainwashed Zeke first, it’s Grisha with his extreme view of Eldia doctrine; but again, he chose Marley and betrayed his own parents. (1)

Unlike RBA who called eldian inside wall as devil’s children, Zeke only called them fools; he didn’t fall for Marley’s brainwashing. If anything, Zeke is the one who aware of both Eldia’s and Marley’s point of view and histories and he didn’t want to help his own nation too. In my opinion, Eren and the Eldian inside wall now are the one who have limited POV and in danger to be brainwashed by Grisha only POV. (2)

Rather than Gabi, I think it’s Eren who is more dangerous; not only he has titan power and coordinates power but he also has limited knowledges/ POV about outside world and it’s only from Grisha’s twisted POV. Even now, he still called Marley as their enemies and wants to kill them all; he still not yet loses his all black and white POV. Without RBA’s backstory, it’s difficult to know their feeling and thought, that’s why I’d rather see RBA’s backstory rather than new characters. (3)

Guess that is all, hope there is no part 4 because I really want to answer you asap dear Anon. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

I wish you had any idea how desperate I am for Warrior Backstory. I wish you knew. I am dying for it, I need it, I want it. And I am still not delivered, damn.

Well, to be honest I didn’t say RBA+Zeke are definetely brainwashed, I just said they seem to be brainwashed and repeated and repeated that how hard it is for us to know what they really think until we get Warrior flashback and their POV. Unfortunately, we don’t know their perspectives as much as EMA, for example, so it is so hard for us, at least for me, to make definite deep analysis about them. I thought I stated that clearly in that post? It is really hard for us to know for sure.

RBA devoted themselves to complete their missions because Annie has her dad to return, and RB have… Something valuable? Dreams? Family? I have a head canon where Reiner is an orphan can you prove otherwise? Nobody can because we don’t have their backstory. But I know for sure RBA sympathized with Walled People and liked their easy life as soldiers.

As Bert said so in chapter 48. It was an easy, nice thing to dream growing old with Jean and Connie and become old drunkards.

It was the kind of dream that shattered them.

Maybe Zeke is indeed super-aware like you said so. Then this brings up more questions, for example if he is indeed super-aware then why did he work his ass out and become Warchief? Isn’t it makes more sense for him to become an ordinary Warrior which will give him a chance to enjoy things more or if he has the chance not being a Warrior and quit? Or isn’t it even better to run away? Titan shifting ability is like a curse and if Zeke is indeed that aware, why did he take the power? We don’t even know whether Marley knows if he is last Fritz or not.

We. Need. Warrior. Backstory. To. Know. For. Sure.

But you are about how limited Walled People’s informations are. They are living isolated from the World behind the Walls and all they have is Grisha’s POV. Being brainwashed by Grisha’s memories? Why, may I ask? Last time I checked Walled World had a wonderful queen like Historia Reiss which never let that kind of thing to happen, at least. I am not even mentioning other people who will be the voice of logic like Hange or Pixis and so on.

I assume you meant Eren with brainwashing? Yeah, anon, he has black and white idealistic world view but he has grown since the beginning of the manga. At the beginning we had Eren who was always shouting about how he is gonna kill all the titans and devour them all, after the things he endured he has grown. He raged when he found out Reiner is the Armored Titan and Bert is Colossal, remember? After Uprising Arc, he started to acknowledge he might be wrong and the rage left but the sense of duty took it’s place.

Chapter 70.

There are only two good things Rod Reiss has done, first is being with Alma which gave us Historia in the end and second is kidnapping Eren and taking him to that cave.

I admit, Eren learns really slow and it is hard to change his mind when he determines to something. But one way or another, he learns. Eren who has sworn to devour all the titans in the world has turned to Eren who refers Turtle Titan as a comrade of his.

When SC went to ocean, he asked whether or not will they be free if they kill them all. Yeah, it seems like this time his devote to kill all the titans has turned to his devote to kill all humans, but once again: It seems like it. We don’t know what happened to Eren and Walled People during those four years and this time we got the lack of POV.

There are two possibilities about that last question of Eren; first is that he has adopted Grisha’s world view and we are in trouble. If that is indeed like that then we will have another arc of Eren learning that this is a wrong world view. He will learn, because that is what Eren does since the beginning of the manga, he learns. Second is that he is asking a question, which is obvious I know, which means he is just questioning whether or not killing everyone will make a change.

What is more dangerous here is Gabi I think, not Eren. She has the world view of what Marley doctrined her, something that does not even belong to her which makes her character kinda… Empty. She thinks she has right to do everything that is going to make her accomplish her dream, aka killing all Eldians and she thinks it is justified for her to do everything on that way like how she took her clothes of and break the law of war Colt mentioned. She is a new character so we need more screen time to analyze her even better but right now that is how she seems to me. And yeah, she is also super cute.

I’d love to have Warrior backstory anon but who knows where this will turn out? Maybe you will end up liking these characters so much too? Personally, I really liked Falco already!

And remember, this is a good chance to get to know Marley side better, I am also craving for Warrior backstory but well… We are finally at Warrior side which is something some of us have been waiting over years! Let’s enjoy this new world and try to know it better!

Thank you for sharing your asks once again, anon, hope I was able to explain my points.

#you know anon i double checked my meta just to make myself sure if i was able to tell things correctly or not #you made me worried that i was lacking with telling #anon #kyojinanswered

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nebulousneko · 7 years

Note

Psst hey. How about that Conan has Pandora in his eyes AU?

How about it, indeed, Anon ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

To be honest it’s worth noting that pretty much any idea/AUfor Detco I really fall in love with/pour my heart into (if it isn’t anembarrassing personal AU that I don’t want to force upon the masses) I probablygot from and/or expanded on it with @edorazzi, so please check out her fantastic art and feel free to ask her anyquestions as well! (Mostly because she comes up with better ideas than me lmaoand also she knows more about the Detco side of the DCMK universe, I am yourMagic Kaito Source)

Headcanons/elaborations under the cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

*Another Damn Disclaimer (sorry I get so long winded when Ianswer asks but I want everyone to know that my friends are great and I am alowly accomplice): I don’t personally know that much about the APTX drug (sorryif I even messed up the acronym I’m a Bad Fan™) because I haven’t watchedenough of the main Detco series/the stuff involving the Black Organization, soanything that has to do with that came from Edo

It’s my own personal headcanon that A) the organization thatis tormenting Kaito is just a separate branch of the Black Organization(because I’m assuming its extensive and big enough that it can have separatebranches that each do nefarious things) and B) the man that’s after the PandoraGem (and subsequently who heads the branch of lackeys that are tormentingKaito) was wrong about the true meaning of the prophecy/legend about thePandora gem

In reality, the idea that Pandora will only cry its tears ofeternal life under the Volley Comet is just wrong lmao and it’s more of alegend about how you could dosomething with the essence of the gem rather than a literal “stick this puppyup when the comet passes and claim your one (1) prize of eternal life”

Side note: I wonder just how well distributing that gift ofeternal life was going to go when only like half a teaspoon of “eternal tears”came out and the boss was like “lmao suckers it’s mine” but anyway

Haibara’s parents, when originally working on the “youthdrug,” actually managed to find and extract the essence of the Pandora gem

The essence, as can be seen in all of the fatalitiesexhibited throughout various testing stages of the drug, is not exactly safeand will not, in fact, grant eternal life to anyone that tastes its tears andalso “eternal life” was not the literal interpretation of what its essence canbe used for

Haibara was the one after her parents left her with the researchthat created/synthesized a drug that would have the “youth” side effect amidstall of the fatality possibilities but kept it to herself

Fast forward to BABY CONAN BEING BORN

His eyes glow with the Pandora glint in the moonlight

The reason that Shinichi (and Haibara) cannot change back totheir original states except for limited amounts of time or under certaincircumstances is because the Pandora essence/drug and its subsequent youtheffect has an impact on their immune systems and genetics (which I mean iscanon but IT’S IMPORTANT TO MENTION FOR PLOT PURPOSES)

In order to be permanently restored to their “real”biological ages, a drug/flushing agent of some sort to remove all traces of theessence from their bodies needs to be developed (which is ofc what Haibara isworking on)

It’s also likely that due to the gem’s youth effects theywould continue to never age, so it’s not like Conan could “re-grow up again,”he and Haibara would eternally be 6/7

At some point Kaito and Conan face off under the moonlight(which is like every damn time, isn’t it?) and Kaito notices The Gleam™

He’s kind of panicking because “wow wtf I found the gemfinally” but also “wow wtf it’s in this kid’s body and it’s not a gem I canjust smash it’s like……………..an already distributed liquid”

It’s kind of scary crunch time now because after he gets itconfirmed that Conan/Haibara are definitely infected with The Gem he has towonder how long it’s going to be until those bad guys find out

And these kids already have bad guys after them so like……..doubletrouble

Being the outstanding, noble, good person he is, Kaitodecides to take it upon himself to protect the little darlings because honestlyhis mission all along was stealing gems to findthis one gem and now he’s found it so. He can’t smash it but this is thenext best thing

A litany of shenanigans ensues including but not limited to:

Kaito sneaking in to make sure Conan is not being stakedout/attacked but he gets caught by Mori and just. Slips away out the window. Thenext morning over breakfast Mori randomly mentions that he saw Kaito Kid inConan’s room and Ran and Conan simultaneously lose their shit.

Kaito being like????? Surrogate big bro to all these fuckingkids look just let Kaito be the big brothat is all I really want

He poses as Shinichi as another reason to look after Conanand the kids without being like “who tf is this random dude from Ekoda” andConan is Cool With It as long as he doesn’t do weird stuff to Shinichi’s reputation

Probably a lot of random hijinks happen where Kaito is justalways saving Conan’s ass at the last second (which he already does in canonlbr)

But it’s also a nice dynamic because both Conan and Kaitoget the chance to stop being irreconcilable enemies/nemeses/rivals and yeahthere is still some posing where Conan/Shinichi pretends to arrest/thwart Kidbut now that they’ve spent so much time together and understand each other’ssituations better/have a bunch of heart to hearts they are probably just reallygood bros and I cry (platonic/brother Shinichi/Kaito stuff is one of my favethings in case it wasn’t obvious)

Oh it is funny though because at some point there is a 3 way“who takes better care of Conan” argument between Heiji/Ran/Kaito

Ran and Heiji can’t decide how they feel about Kaito (whoonly Heiji would know/acknowledge as dressing up as Shinichi from time to timesince Ran doesn’t know)

Honestly Heiji just wants Kudo to his damn self but he hasto admit that it’s nice to know there is someone else genuinely looking out forConan/Shinichi’s wellbeing

Also a general headcanon that spans AUs when Kaito isinvolved: Heiji can always always tellKaito and Shinichi apart, no matter what

Ran does not have this ability lol but it makes it easierfor Conan anyway since he can use Shinichi!Kaito as a scapegoat so that’s nice

I think that’s all the headcanons I have/have heard so far.If someone wants to discuss/comment/question/complain, please feel free toshoot me an ask or an IM, I never get tired of talking about this stuff :D

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