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lower-the-volume · 4 months

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12.23 All Along the Watchtower

#deancas #destiel #castiel #dean winchester #spn #supernatural #Sam Winchester #s12e23 #12.23

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spacedean · 3 months

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DEAN WINCHESTER in one random episode per day ‣ 316/327 12.23 ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER

#spnedit #deanedit #dean winchester #castiel #supernatural #randomep #12.23

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touchstiel · 8 months

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EVERY TOUCH EVER ☞ 123/?

12.23 All Along the Watchtower

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bevebevo · 5 months

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where the sky meets the sea

#illustration #12.23

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scoobydoodean · 24 days

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I saw (I think through you) something about Lucifer not letting cas die after the swan song battle but just exploding him and keeping him near

I ALSO keep thinking about how the empty says nobody has pull there, nobody has the ability to bring back anyone from there (except jack on accident)

This implies to me that chuck never let cas truly die at all because he was brought back several times

I think it makes some sense because chuck was supposedly watching the Winchester's closely and would've known what would happen if cas was truly gone and he couldn't let that happen (yet)

It's interesting that cas dies finally only after chuck abandoned the world (not watching his favorite show, feeling no obligation to help) and I can't help but wonder if Dean asking for Chucks help made him so mad (it was rude and didn't appeal to chuck like he would've needed, Sam would've done a better job asking for help because he can suck up) that he flung cas into the empty.

What are your thoughts?

I don't remember reading a post like that, so it must have been someone else—but that's interesting! Chuck's alleged lack of power in The Empty vs. Castiel's resurrections is definitely another one of those tricky little bits introduced in the Dabb run that's difficult to make sense of. I mean to be real I think the guy is a fuck up of a showrunner with ineffective communication with his writing team who therefore ends up creating continuity errors and dropped plots left and right... but I think when reviewing the previous seasons through the lens that Dabb's run requires, Chuck kind of keeping Cas in his back pocket and not allowing him to drop into The Empty is still genuinely sensible (unless you want to theorize something like "The Prestige" is going on and... meh). The speed of Cas's resurrections in 5.01 and 5.22 show God was paying very close attention to Cas and that at that time, he wanted Cas around, doing exactly what he was doing—helping defy the narrative.

We see in 5.22 that despite what happens not fulfilling what God had prophesied, Chuck is pleased with the outcome. Some may take this as a sign that he intended things to go exactly how it went, but I don't think that's true. I think Chuck was just genuinely entertained by Dean and Cas leaping out of his writing at that time. Leaping out of causality is something Dean and Cas do together in 4.18, 4.22, and 5.22.

In 4.18, Dean pleads with Cas to help him save Sam, even though Cas thinks what's going to happen is fate and can't be subverted. Cas doesn't personally act, but he gives Dean the idea that Dean then executes, leading Chuck to say "What are you doing here? I didn't write this."

In 4.22, Dean pleads with Cas again. They again fight about the inescapability of destiny. This time, it's Dean's pleading but Cas's actions—flying Dean out of the green room (somewhere Dean is incapable of escaping from on his own). Chuck says when they pop into his house, "Wait. T-t-this isn't supposed to happen" and then "Yeah, but you guys aren't supposed to be there. You're not in this story".

In 5.22, after Lucifer takes Sam over (something that was foretold to happen in Detroit), Cas and Bobby despair, but Dean refuses to give up and calls Chuck, who says, "Oh, uh, Dean. Uh, wow. I, uh, I didn't know that you'd call." Then Dean goes to Stull Cemetery alone. However, the moment that Michael begins to walk up on Dean and says, "You little maggot. You are no longer a part of this story!" Guess who suddenly appears with a holy oil Molotov cocktail?

So these moments where they defy "fate" (i.e., prophecy foretold to the archangels) seem to require Dean and Cas working together in order to be pulled off, and Chuck likes this. Viewing through the Dabb lens—it excites him maybe for the first time in years. So he keeps Cas around. He resurrects Cas twice. He doesn't mind "losing"—he wants more of these things he can't anticipate to occur.

But at some point, Chuck snaps, and he isn't enjoying his creations having free will anymore. At a certain point, he turns on Castiel, because by season 15, he's complaining about Cas the exact way Naomi did in season 8: Cas is the angel with a crack in his chassis who never does what he's told. Chuck also isn't enjoying Dean's defiance anymore, but is still (as Lilith tells us) "creepily obsessed" with Dean.

The thing is, if my theory about the devil baby brainwashing is correct, then Chuck begins to sow his Moriah finale in season 12, which means Dean's prayer probably isn't what makes Chuck mad. Something has to happen between season 11 and season 12 that acts as the catalyst for Chuck to begin his most psychologically complicated, painstakingly crafted attack on Dean's mental state ever. What my brain is currently theorizing, is that the catalyst for Chuck snapping and finally trying to force Dean to act out his fratricide fantasies once and for all... is Amara.

Chuck didn't want Amara standing in his way and didn't want to share authority, so he locked her away, but then she got out and there was nothing Chuck could do about it. He lost control. That's... one theory I am thinking of anyway. (It's possible I've been watching too much true crime).

Now—Chuck had lost control before (during the first apocalypse) but never to a degree that was life threatening for him. Team free will can do things Chuck doesn't anticipate, utilizing free will... but Amara is his equal and can literally kill him. What's more—who saved his ass from Amara? Dean—and of all things—with the power of love—with his pesky, bleeding heart—the number one thing that always seems to stand in the way of the repeated fratricide plot! Dean gets Chuck and Amara to make nice, and then they go away together, but... Amara isn't that interested in Chuck. He begins to annoy her. This is another way that Chuck loses control—control of how his equally powerful sister perceives him (This is something that's also sent Sam over the edge in the past, and Chuck&Amara and Sam&Dean are mirrors).

So Chuck loses control in this major way, and in his desperation to reassert control in the aftermath, because he can't control his sister, he focuses on trying to control his "toys". He doesn't want them defying his writing anymore. It enrages instead of entertains now. So he begins this plot, and a major component of that plot needs to be separating Dean and Cas, either through death or through emotional distance or both, because 1) his experience is that they defy his writing together, and 2) it will hurt and isolate Dean.

#mail #and cas is my best friend #chuck #12.23 #13.01 #no one can control you but you #spn and causality #amara

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tiktaalic · 1 year

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It’s like Sam jurisfiction always says. Just trying. To convey an experience

#etxt #spnwatch #12.23 #1.01 #for my own reference. to find later

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paellegere · 1 month

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one more thing actually. the whole concept of the apocalypse world is both cheesy beyond belief AND ahistorical and revisionist to an insulting degree. "sam and dean were never born so the apocalypse destroyed the world" have you by chance forgotten that sam and dean were (1) the ones to cause the apocalypse in the first place, and (2) the true vessels through which the apocalypse could even happen.

sam and dean are literally the conduits for the apocalypse. they were born specifically and exclusively so the apocalypse could happen. without them, michael and lucifer have no vessels sturdy enough to hold them (they could theoretically in john and mary but john's been dead 20 years so that's a bust too). who came up with this idea???? it makes no damn sense.

also after the moral lessons sam and dean learned across seasons 8 to 11 be "the winchesters are destructive by nature and will end the world over and over again to save their brother because they're insane and fundamentally bad for the world so they need to die," having "this wretched place is the world where you were never born" is just so cringe. i'm sorry. like they really fucked this one up. it contradicts not only the entire original kripke era but also every single other season made in the worst ways. when the point of your show is that your main characters destroy everything they touch (to the extent that MULTIPLE supernatural beings try to kill them for the EXPRESS PURPOSE of keeping the world alive and not destroyed) and lie to themselves about the good they put into the world, taking that lie at face value and then making a whole alternate universe based on it is just. so cringe. terrible writing that's so out of place in an otherwise pretty good season finale (especially combined with its penultimate episode).

#liveblogging: supernatural #12.23 #me last night: maybe i'll wake up tomorrow and realize season 12 wasn't that bad after all #me in the morning: AND ANOTHER THING—#how did they have mary winchester and the apocalypse AU in the same season #how'd they even manage that contradiction #anyway i'm actually done now. i'm going to read fanfiction :)#.txt

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stoukadraws · 1 year

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