#Ml season 4 salt

[familyagrestefanblog]

The existence of the Ox miraculous is such an unnecessary ugly detail when you think about Ladynoir and how Chat Noir served as the punching bag and scapegoat for Ladybug, Alya as Marinette's actual partner in season 4, and the whole team in every single way pre-s5

The Ox gives the power of immunity even against any other Miraculous power. One would think with Adrichat's self-harming tendencies that canon had Marinette make entirely about herself because "they're haunting her so much", and her still narratively entirely unchallenged tendency of leaving Chat Noir behind on the battle field as sacrifice or bait to possibly have whatever the hell done to him so she can be save and sound while she and everyone else can look and be cool on his expense

With all that, one would have thought that if Canon Marinette truly loved Chat Noir "sooooooo much" and is oh so haunted by his self-harming behavior and him always getting hurt so she sidelined him "for his own good"

Then how come at no point did Marinette do the actually caring thing by giving Chat Noir the Ox miraculous since he's ALWAYS left behind BY HER so she can leave the battle field and execute her plans with the others save and soundly? If her Chaton's well-being was oh so important to her and it always "pained her so much" to see him getting hurt then why was the Ox only used 2 insignificant times by Ivan at the end of season 4 when it could have saved Chat Noir ALOT of suffering all the way through?

Or the turtle. Or ANY OTHER Miraculous for that matter?

Why was Alya getting two miraculous in Hack-San perfectly fine with Marinette but heaven forbid Marinette is actually expected to ACT like she gives a damn about Chat Noir's well-being as his leader, guardian, partner, and friend and not just the show having her claim superficial words that hardly have anything to back them up once they actually have to mean something?

Its almost as if Canon inherently doubled down on having Marinette be the kind of leader who will only do things in a way that primarily benefit HER while everything else gets swept under the rug because she isn't maliciously intentioned and then never brought up again. And unfortunately it was her who was written to prioritize making an unnecessary team of 18 miraculous holders no one ever asked of her to form (Su-Han even told her NOT to give out the miraculous like candy),

so Marinette was just made to not consider Chat Noir either at all or simply not as worthy enough of any kind of consideration in her entire leadership/ guardianship or actual safety, support, or ANY KIND of resource since that wouldn't be narratively about her, now would it?

She can't have Chat have the Ox because she might need Ivan as Ox in 4 months and she doesn't want to have to ask Chat to get it back or end up NOT getting to use this ONE other Miraculous out of a whole ass box, because that would involve a basic ass conversation Marinette can't have apparently or her not getting to use all of the miraculous however she pleases at any given point

The horror. Now she would have only 14 miraculous to work with!

As per usual, count me fucking unimpressed by Marinette's writing. The negligence towards Chat Noir on even the most basic level is insane and she was declared the epitome of leadership and kindness for this.

Cool that Marinette already decided in her head that Ivan is suitable for the Ox miraculous and he should get it in future, but Chat Noir needing help and protection wasn't some theoretical case, it constantly happened right in front of her eyes and even by her own freaking orders too because she never thinks of him in ANYTHING and the show glorified the hell out of her as leader for doing all that

Why is looking into ANY detail only making Marinette's side of Ladynoir so much worse ever since season 4? There is no escaping this! Just don't add the Ox with this power or actually have Marinette be a good leader towards Chat Noir. But noooooooooo.

#ml writing critical #Ml Marinette critical #Ladynoir conflict salt #Marinette is unfortunately still an awful leader to Chat Noir but can't be called out for ANYTHING #No matter what price Adrien has to pay for it #Rip Ladynoir #And Rip Marinette I once loved so much #Ml season 4 salt #Ml season 4 critical

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I've recently come across a couple of season 4 fanfics that dealt with the Chat Noir feeling left out and quitting thing and every time I read one I can't help but think "man did they chose the wrong side of the masks AND the wrong characters for this conflict. Chat Noir comes across terribly here". It's weird to see people try and justify his behavior and act like Ladybug was in the wrong.

Was Ladybug being the best friend ever? No, but friendship is secondary when they're wearing the masks. Paris comes first. Chat Noir quitting because he doesn't feel special enough is literally him endangering everyone he loves because his crush isn't paying enough attention to him and I truly can't tell if the show wanted us to feel like he was in the right or the wrong here. In Kuro Neko, Catwalker actually does acknowledge the lesson he needed to learn

There's nothing wrong with you. Maybe the boy who was Cat Noir was more sensitive than it seemed. But his feelings for you shouldn't force you to pay more attention to him than to others. You take care of everybody equally, Ladybug. 

And Chat Noir apologizes at the end of the episode for causing Ladybug trouble, but the whole thing is incredibly lackluster. They don't actually have a meaningful conversation about why he was feeling that way and the rest of the season seems to present Ladybug as being in the wrong, especially the final! Trusting Alya leads to nothing meaningful and not trusting Chat Noir loses her the miraculous. Basically, I still have no idea what season 4 was trying to do with this conflict and it's been dropped forever now that Adrien is fully reduced to nothing more than arm candy.

HOWEVER, this basic setup could have been a fantastic b plot if the "Adrien doesn't feel needed" conflict wasn't a Ladynoir conflict, but was instead a conflict between Adrien and Nino. Move Rocketear up to earlier in the season and have the fallout from that be that Adrien's relationship with Nino is strained. He can still feel leftout because Ladybug has a bigger team now, but instead of him pouting about it and skipping fights, focus on how that need for connection has transferred to his civilian life, but he doesn't have Kagami or Nino now and he's lost. Then you can either have an Adrien and Nino b plot because that relationship needs more screen time OR you use this to make Adrien and Marinette start to grow closer because Rocketear's fallout is also Alya paying more attention to Nino. Then, when season 5 does the whole crush switch, it actually feels earned.

#ml writing salt #ml writing critical #adrien deserves better #marinette deserves better #ml season 4 salt #Can you tell that I'm a little tired of fics that try to blame Ladybug for Chat Noir feeling left out? #It's reasonable for him to have those feelings but boy did they have him express them in a way that was totally unbecoming for a hero #She's a little too busy saving the world and trying to stay sane to worry about his emotions #Especially when he never actually tells her that something's wrong #Though I will absolutely grant you that he needed to know about the Alya situation and keeping him in the dark was BS #I love Alya but that plot was so stupid for so many reasons #It felt like it was just added for cheap drama and not because it was a good addition to the show

[stormiclown]

The selfishness and destructive jealousy of Cat Noir never stops surprising me. He literally spent the second half of the season four finale being passive aggressive and jealous that Ladybug brought in a new hero (Flairmidable).

The reason this is all so bad is because when Ladybug comes back to collect the miraculous from Adrien, when in reality she handed it the Felix, he immediately responds with, ”You gave it to Felix,” without missing a single beat.

I don’t believe that Ladybug is to blame for losing all the miraculous and I never will. Because the blame falls on Adrien’s shoulders. His spontaneous response to Ladybug’s inquiry proves that he knew Felix was the new dog hero the entire time and didn’t warn Ladybug that he may be dangerous. He instead spent the entire time being a dumbass and bitter that he wasn’t Ladybug’s sole support system.

Adrien stans: But how was he supposed to know that Felix would betray them! It’s not like he knew he’d be after the miraculous!

He definitely knew how cunning and dangerous Felix was. Need I bring up the episode Felix, where he witnessed his cousin trying to get into contact with Hawkmoth and wagering the Ladybug and Cat miraculous? Not to mention, Felix offered to dress up as Adrien to go on the trip with Lila in Adrien’s place. He should have been able to put two and two to together and realized that Ladybug gave the dog miraculous to Felix believing that it was Adrien, which wouldn’t that far of a stretch, seeing as Ladybug entrusted him with the snake miraculous (which failed in using it miserably in typical Adrien style) in Desperada.

And you can make the argument that he couldn’t devolve such information with Ladybug with out putting his own identity at risk, but at the very least, he could have told his worries to Ladybug and advise her to keep her eyes open and ready for anything. But he doesn’t do any of that.

The red flags were literally laid in front of him on a silver platter (like everything is) and he ignored them in the worst way possible. This is one of the many times where Cat Noir has failed to deliver or refused to either warn Ladybug of something crucial that may put her in danger or didn’t have the mental capacity or competence to piece together bright and shinny red flags being waved in his face to at least take initiative and investigate on his own. Let’s not forget that Ladybug is the one who has to pay the price for his stupid ass.

Examples include but are not limited to:

-Chat Blanc: He found out that Marinette was Ladybug and jumped at the opportunity to date her as a civilian to satisfy his obsession with love for her, not even bothering to tell his beloved “partner” that she was compromised, which Ladybug had to fix and gained bucket loads of trauma and the blame for the world being destroyed.

-Oni-chan: After witnessing that Lila had lied to him about her ankle after teaming up with an akuma to end Ladybug, he doesn’t tell his partner that a civilian had tried to get her murdered by a volatile monster and only chastised her lightly, as if that would stop a budding serial killer. And he suddenly loses his brain cells after Lila (a person who he knows is dangerous) targets Marinette, his response to to encourage Lila to continue lying to get Marinette back in school.

-The Collector: Adrien finds a book his father keeps in a safe with designs that look glaring like miraculous super heroes, yet he never questions why a supposedly normal civilain like his father would have a book on such topics, or broaches the subject with Ladybug. Again losing a crucial lead that could have led them to discovering who Hawkmoth was.

-New York Special: He failed to inform Ladybug that he was leaving Paris, going against her trust, and thus left Paris without any protection or the power for her to fix any damage that an akuma may cause in their absence.

-Kuro Neko: He left his ring on a random rooftop, completely unbothered by the fact that anyone could have found the ring (including Hawkmoth) and use it for their own gain. There was no guarantee that Ladybug would have found it in time.

So, not only have his childish and outright disgusting antics have led to countless people being hurt in and out of the mask, but his careless disregard for things that aren’t his feelings for Ladybug and his failure to warn his partner about a dangerous wild card that could’ve changed the outcome of what may be the most important battle in the series led to him being directly responsible for the loss of the miraculous.

And no, Ladybug doesn’t get any flack for giving Felix the miraculous because she was under the effects of an akuma, which clouded her judgement and sense of reason. Plus she was acting on information that she had, which was the fact that Adrien was scheduled to leave Paris and jumped at the opportunity to make a powerful ally in a clearly desperate battle. Like, this behavior has been a constant with his character for the entire show, but his awful personality is highlighted more during season four where he refuses to communicate his feelings to Ladybug and then acts out when she doesn’t comfort him.

But that clearly doesn’t matter, because he is rewarded for his irrational jealousy by finally being the only option for Ladybug to rely on. And then has the gall, has the acrimony to claim that he was on her side, nevermind the fact that he had been insensitive to her problems, expecting her to drop her very important guardian duties just to soothe his protagonist complex, and smashing property (the infamous chimney scene) and nearly murdering Ladybug’s stand in in Hack San and basically being a massive dick that he wasn’t in the center of Ladybug’s universe.

With his blatant hatred of sharing Ladybug with anyone, including the temporary heroes (who he knows are his friends. you can pry this fact from my cold dead hands), I would be less than shocked if he did this on purpose, and used Felix’s sly personality to do the dirty work for him, so he could swoop in and play the part of Ladybug’s savior.

In conclusion, Cat Noir is a liar and a traitor who is willing to stay silent and ignorant of the world around him while forcibly cultivating his own rose tinted version and simultaneously defending his feelings from anyone and anything he feels threatened by viciously. And as usual, Ladybug/Marinette and everyone else has to pay the price.

To anyone stating that Marinette has jealousy issues, you’re right. But Cat Noir and by extension Adrien crank up the jealousy meter to eleven. It’s to the point where his inability to put aside his own feelings and desires have led to consequences that have quite literally blown up in everyone’s face.

TL;DR I rewatched Risk and Strike back and realized that Ladybug was being unjustly blamed for something that wasn’t even her fault while Cat Noir was being praised for "always being by her side" and "pushing aside his feelings for her to comfort her even though he's had the short end of the stick". Frankly, I got sick of people usong the season four finale as anti-marinette fuel without all the facts. So I made this post to prove her innocence while criticizing (read: dragging through the mud and back) the real perpetrator of the disaster that is season four.

#adrien salt #chat noir salt #stupid friking characters #ml fandom salt #mlb salt #ml season 4 salt #marinette deserves better #ladybug was just doing her job the best she could #Unlike Mr. “The only two person plan is Ladybug and me!” #lila salt #felix salt #nukemiraculousladybug2022 #because what the hell

[miraculousalt]

So when S6 starts Adrien wont know yet that Ladybug didn get the Butterfly miraculous cuz she'll probably just tell suhan, Alya n maybe Luka. So Chat Noir will likly ask her for a reveal in ep 1 cause thats wha they always said, they reveal when its save.

Is there evn any point in hoping tha she ll go bout that any other way than jus lyin her ass off again, stall for time with excuse afta excuse until Lila will attack as Butterfly & Chat has to find out the worst way again tha she lied to him n keepin his hopes up? Her jus keepin him 'happy' by telling him they ll finlly getta know each other soon just for her to never have had that intention in the first place?

Wow, that sounds like Ephemeral all over again. Great, cant wait.

#ml season 4 salt #marinette salt #ladynoir critical #ladybug salt #i'm tagging it salt fuck off #Ml season 6 #Thinking bout S6 LadyNoir will never ever lead to anythin good #Ml leaks #Ml season 5 finale

[jeankirsteind]

You won to make her worse than satan just for sake your imaginary daughter and gaslight everyone around you that Chloe is the lost cause.

I have no idea why you didn’t get fired after the horrendous that you made. You better take a shower and shave your ugly beard 🤭

#miraculous ladybug #ml salt #ml season 4 salt #ml season 5 salt #thomas astruc salt #tom and jerry meme

[theerurishipper]

Ladynoir and (In)Equality

For me personally, the most important thing in any relationship is that both partners are equals in that dynamic. I think that's a reasonable expectation to have. And Ladynoir did fulfill that requirement for me in the first 3 seasons. Even though Ladybug did most of the leadership stuff by making the plans and directing Chat Noir on what to do, it was understood that this was a mutual agreement. They both understood what they were good at, and their dynamic evolved accordingly. Chat Noir was content to follow her lead and Ladybug was content to make the plans and direct Chat Noir.

Season 2 saw the introduction of the inequality that shattered this balanced dynamic between the two, and quite frankly the later seasons only made it worse. It started in Syren, as we all know, where Chat Noir first expressed his displeasure at being left out of the loop when Ladybug was privy to important information that was being kept from him. Of course, Master Fu arrived to barely smooth things over before the issue was dropped for the season and never brought up again. Their dynamic remained as it was, but the cracks began to form here.

The introduction of Ladybug being the Guardian in Season 4 changed this established dynamic, obviously, and Ladybug began to give the Miraculous out to other holders. Keeping Chat Noir out of the loop began to become her MO, and she effectively replaced him with Rena Furtive in all but name. The central conflict of the season was the cracks forming in their relationship because of her new responsibilities and her secret keeping. And the resolution to this, as stated in Kuro Neko and Risk, is that even if he's no longer her partner, she still likes him best.

Now, the previous Ladynoir dynamic was one of equality, where they knew their roles and acted upon them. They were equals, and Ladybug's leadership in their pair was an informal one, one that was mutually agreed upon by them. The introduction of the Guardian role for Ladybug changes this from a mutually agreed upon dynamic to one where Ladybug is, for all intents and purposes, his boss. She is officially his leader, in the sense that if she so wished, he would be obliged to hand his Miraculous over to her. In the sense that she would be well within her rights to replace him if she so desired (which she does do). She is his superior, and he is no more important than the other temporary holders, with the sole exception that he holds his Miraculous permanently (which has now been exacerbated by the fact that all of them are permanent holders now).

Chat Noir received a demotion for no fault of his own, which he did not want, and someone else was promoted to replace him in the position he once occupied. Rena Furtive is Ladybug's special partner. Chat Noir is not Rena Furtive's equal, and he is definitely not Ladybug's equal.

This is not about a woman making more money than a man. She isn't just more successful than him, and this isn't about him being insecure about her being better than him. The problem is that Ladybug is Chat Noir's direct superior, and she has power over him. She has the power to call him when she needs him, and if not him, she'll get someone else. She has the resources to figure out his identity without him being none the wiser. She has the power to replace him if she wishes. Far be it from him to allow her to lead of his own accord, now he is obliged to follow her orders. She has the power to control what he knows and how he acts, and she has the power to keep vital information from him.

None of this is inherently "bad." But when you look at it from the context of them being on a path to a romantic relationship with each other, that's where the problems begin. Two people in a relationship should not have a dynamic where one has so much power over the other. Ladybug has so much power that she is able to slide a third teammate into their partnership and slowly push him away from his role at her side. She, quite unfortunately, can and has abused his trust because she had the resources to do so. The only opportunity he had in Season 4 to make his own choices that were not dictated by Ladybug's rules was when he quit. The final takeaway from this Ladynoir conflict is that Chat Noir is her favorite subordinate now (because Rena Furtive has replaced him), and just because they aren't equals anymore doesn't mean she doesn't want him around.

And, no, this was not corrected in Season 5. Season 5 was a return to their original dynamic, not because Ladybug and Chat Noir worked around this new shift in their relationship to find a way to overcome this new power imbalance. It's because Ladybug's power was forcibly taken away from her by a third party, and the only reason Chat Noir is her special partner again is because there is no one else left. But the end of Season 5 sees everyone come back, as permanent holders no less, and Chat Noir is once again demoted to his role as "just another holder like any other."

With the establishment of the Ladybug and the Black Cat Miraculous as two halves of a duo, equals in power, you'd expect them to be, well, equals. Me being upset about the inequality of these characters isn't with regards to screentime, or my wish for Adrien to be the main character or anything. My wish is for Adrien to be a character of his own. My wish is for the show to stop promoting such unhealthy dynamics as cute and fine. If they had simply made Adrien's role out to be the love interest, if they had just literally made him Ken who is content with just being Barbie's trophy boyfriend from the very beginning, if that was all his role has ever been and was meant to be from the start, I wouldn't be complaining so much. But the one they reduced into the role of Marinette's prize, the one over whom she has so much power, is the abuse victim whose arc is about self-actualization. And it paints a very disturbing picture. That far be it from Chat Noir to expect any kind of equal treatment from Ladybug, he's going to have put aside any discomforts or issues he has with their relationship to settle for being her favorite by virtue of nostalgia.

And it's just... bad, on a narrative level. Despite its ambitious introduction of so many plot points, the focus of this show has always been its romance. The main narrative goal of the series is for Ladybug and Chat Noir to get together. So, when your narrative hinges on these two characters getting together, and you decide to introduce such a power dynamic into the mix, saying "I still like you," isn't the fix that it's cracked up to be. If they are supposed to be the relationship around which the show is built, Chat Noir should be Ladybug's special partner, he should be her equal and not just another holder whom she likes better than everyone else. Ladynoir's relationship is directly tied to their partnership, and their dynamic as partners is the basis for any future romantic relationship between them. Introducing such an inequality between them in their partnership does affect their ability to be able to get together, and not in a good way.

This isn't a bad plot point. I like Ladybug being the Guardian, I like that they didn't just brush off the fact that there would be some changes in their dynamic. What I dislike is the way it was resolved, with Ladybug essentially saying that they would never be equals but she still likes him. A power imbalance does not a healthy relationship make. Ladynoir do not have a relationship where they are both completely aware of everything they should know. Chat Noir really cannot do anything in their dynamic, because Ladybug has all the control over everything. It's Ladybug controlling this information and Chat Noir accepting that he'll never be treated the way he wants to be treated, because he's been conditioned to believe his feelings don't matter. And she never did end up correcting this, and the conflict as it is ended with him forgiving her for everything even though she never apologized, and accepting that this is how it's going to be.

And it's not good. This isn't the Ladynoir I signed up for, honestly. I signed up for the Ladybug who accepted Chat Noir unconditionally and the Chat Noir who supported Ladybug through everything. I did not sign up for Ladybug trying to pull a Gabe and Chat Noir only being her emotional support who suppresses his own needs for her. The Ladynoir conflict and its less than satisfying resolution caused irreparable damage to the Ladynoir dynamic (it's irreparable because the writers don't see a problem with it and so they'll never fix it), and this has only continued into Season 5, which said "why fix it when I can make it worse."

#MLB #Marinette Salt #ML Salt #Meta #My meta #I know it's too late to be ranting about Season 4 when the Season 5 finale exists #But I needed to say it #Ladynoir conflict

[acuteobserv4tion]

Hear me out:

Zoe shouldn't exist. They should have given the Bee Miraculous to Rose or Aurore. Perfect patch up. No need for a last-minute self insert character.

It's the bad fanfic writing that gets me guys.

I hear Zoe is finally becoming her own character, tho. Good for her. Good for you, Zoe stans. Just wish she wasn't a last-minute insert made out of spite.

But if you really want Zoe to be a thing...

I wish she was introduced in like the end of season 2 right after Queen Wasp. Cut out that scene where Marinette reunites someone with their toxic family member.

Zoe shows up after Malediktator, giving Chloe more reason to feel unloved, stopping Chloe's kindness in its tracks, leaving her hurt and in pain, her desperation for attention made more clear, highlighting her Descent into Madness.

Zoe could actually genuinely try to connect with her in season 3 because Zoe at least has her own dad in America who raised her right, unlike Andre. Then show us a confused Chloe who rages out and hates Zoe for seemingly taking mom away from her all these years.

Little does she know that Audrey doesn't really care about either of them.

This is how we get Miracle Queen. Chloe actively asking for Hawkmoth to make her "exceptional" for her mom since Ladybug seems to have abandoned her, too. (Marinette notices her being difficult instead of Marinette just being jealous of Kagami like in canon) Audrey, of course, after being de-akumatized, looks the other way.

Then, in season 4, we have Lila manipulate Chloe like in Miraculer, only different. Chloe would be the one Gabriel assigned to look out for Adrien at school while he assigns Lila to "look out for him" during modeling.

Lila manipulates Chloe out of the way, which Gabriel knew Lila would do. Chloe, meanwhile, is losing Adrien in her grief and rage. Sabrina is losing Chloe to the stress of Lila's schemes to get Chloe alone and vulnerable through rumors, which isn't hard because of Chloe's past bullying. (What's that? Believable manipulation?)

But Zoe is still there, and she sees, so Sabrina goes to her. But when they confront her, Chloe sees it as a betrayal. She thinks she's lost Sabrina to Zoe like she lost her mom. So she curses them both. And who does she have left other than Uncle Gabriel.

Chloe has become a proper pawn in Lila and Gabriel's game. A sad, miserable, vindictive little pawn.

A solid tragic character. Chloe the Sympathetic Villain. (Unlike Gabriel, who we all seem to agree is a stupid asshat). Now, what will become of her?

Isn't that so much better?

#miraculous lb #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug and chat noir #miraculous fandom #chloe bourgeois #zoe lee #rose lavillant #aurore beaureal #bee miraculous #pollen #miraculous kwamis #ml writers salt #miraculous rewrite #miraculous season 5 #miraculous season five #miraculous season 2 #miraculous season 3 #miraculous season 4

[youremarvelous]

Why I don't ship any side of the love square summed up in two quotes:

(Season 2, episode 10, Glaciator) Adrien: Perhaps Ladybug will love me someday. I mean, like I love her. I have to believe. In the meantime, her friendship is the best gift of all.

(season 4, episode 21, Psycomedian) Marinette: Becoming friends with Adrien is the worst thing that could’ve happened.

Friendship enriches romance. It isn't less meaningful as an expression of love. If you care about someone--if you genuinely like them as a person--their friendship should be valuable to you (as Ladybug's is to Adrien). If it isn't...consider that what you're feeling isn't love but objectification.

#mlb salt #mlb writing salt #ml writing salt #katy watches mlb #and the fact that this comes out of marinette's mouth so late into season 4 #she's had enough exposure to know adrien as a person by now #so this perspective is really disappointing coming from what's designed to be the central relationship of the show

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“It’s kind of dumb that the show writes the entirety of season 4 as Ladybug’s fault for “not trusting Chat Noir” when he’s not innocent at all. He has done some things immature and untrustworthy in the past. Being loyal doesn't always mean that you are reliable enough or ready to handle a bigger secret/responsibility.”

#ml salt #mlb salt #miraculous #adrien salt #adrien critical #chat noir critical #chat noir salt #ml #mlb #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug confessions #confession 2238 #miraculous season 4

[broadwaycutie16]

Why do I like seasons 4 and 5 of miraculous Ladybug? Simple. It debunks a lot of the salt myths that the fandom built up during season 3.

Alya is a backstabbing fake friend who doesn’t give a shot about Marinette’s well-being? Debunked, thanks to Gang of Secrets.

The class are a bunch of leeches who just see Marinette as a meal ticket and personal classroom slave and would go nothing to help her at all? Debunked, also because of Gang of Secrets.

Adrien will always defend Chloe no matter how bad her behavior is? Debunked by Queen Banana.

Kagami would choose Marinette over Adrien? Debunked, curtesy of Protection.

Anybody except the class can see through Lila’s lies? Apparently not, if three strange women, two from Strike Back and Illusion, plus a whole other class in Confrontation easily believe everything she says.

Madame Bustier and Principal Damocles are incompetent spineless morons who believe in blaming the victim? If that was ever true, Confrontation gave them the character development they needed.

Your move, salters.

#miraculous ladybug #ml fandom salt #marinette dupain cheng #ml salt #adrien agreste #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #miraculous salt #miraculous season 5 #miraculous season 4

[friendfromdsmp]

Are there Marinette Salt takes that you disagree with?

So we’ve established in the last ask that I think Adrien gets a bit of a bad rap with salters at times, but that’s absolutely nothing compared to how I feel about Marinette salt takes. TL;DR at the bottom since this was much longer than I anticipated, as per usual with my constant ramblings

One angle I just really can’t wrap my head around are people who think Marinette is to blame for the LadyNoir conflict overarching season 4 because, in all honesty, I don’t know if Marinette was even made fully aware that there was an ongoing issue. I’m probably misremembering or forgetting some stuff, and I’m about to go on a long-ass ramble, so bear with me on this

The conflict begins with MariBug having constant breakdowns due to her responsibilities piling up, her alter egos bleeding into each other and having zero guidance or even vent options. Back in Truth Chat said that he doesn’t mind Ladybug being the new Guardian as long as it doesn’t impact their relationship/dynamic. But due to how overwhelmed and alone she is, Ladybug can’t always be there for all the patrols and silly little things the heroes do, which leaves Chat disappointed and feeling ignored

Is he entitled to these feelings? Absolutely. Can’t help how you feel. And for the most part he doesn’t bother Ladybug with these feelings, except for mentioning it once that he misses seeing her all the time and she explains herself and promises to try and prioritise patrols more. Healthy stuff, good communication, I’m vibing so far

But Chat continues not to voice his feelings while starting to let them dictate his behaviour, and this is where the problems arise - not just with Chat, but with Marinette salters, too. I was surprised to see how many people were mad at Ladybug for not prioritising Chat more or not being more considerate of his feelings

As far as I’ve seen, Chat hasn’t voiced his concerns to her, so you can’t expect Ladybug to fix a problem she doesn’t know exists, and even then you can see she doesn’t have the mental capacity or available free time right now, every other episode featured her having a mental breakdown. At this point Chat being disappointed that he’s not his coworker’s top priority isn’t… well, a priority

People were also getting mad that Marinette revealed her identity to Alya and not Chat was also a surprise to me. Alya is Marinette’s best friend and was chosen to be a hero for her loyalty and trustworthiness (arguable whether the show does a good job at displaying these qualities but I digress) and Chat Noir, the holder of the only other Miraculous Hawkmoth needs, is the most dangerous possible choice to share her identity with, especially considering what little Marinette remembers about Chat Blanc

Plus, Alya was there. Like, physically right there. And Marinette broke under all the pressure that was put on her. You think she’s gonna break and then sit around peacefully until Chat shows up before she actually acts on the breakage?

Anyway, speaking of Alya, her becoming more involved in the hero work makes Chat Noir feel replaced, resulting in him straight-up ignoring the plan after he was informed of his role in it multiple times by multiple people during Sentibubbler. I’ve seen takes that Marinette should have apologised for him not being better informed or for not including him more in the plan, and that absolutely baffles me

This wasn’t Marinette’s plan. Hell, Marinette herself didn’t even know half the plan, and she was the only other person aware of Alya’s trump card. Not to mention there was a whole thing about how Alya couldn’t contact Marinette, so how do they expect Marinette to have any way of knowing more than what was canonically stated to have been told to Marinette? There’s no way people aren’t just making up issues at this point

Rocketear then shows us something I think highlights one of the previous points very well; Ladybug notices that Chat looks upset after he’s learned that Ladybug broke the secret identify rule by handing Alya and Nino their Miraculous at the same time back during Heroes’ Day

She asks Chat what’s wrong and if he’s okay, and you know what he says? He fkn reassures her that he’s okay and it’s nothing

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen; Ladybug noticed there were signs of a problem and asked Chat about it, only to be told there was no problem. But as all the salters have told me, Ladybug just doesn’t care about Chat Noir or his problems. How do people expect her to fix a problem that she not only doesn’t know exists, but a problem that’s now actively being kept from her?

Now we come to Chat Noir no-showing to fights, which results in Ladybug needing to call in additional backup more often. At first Chat has valid reasons for not showing up; he had obligations as Adrien that he couldn’t escape. But the problem here isn’t that he didn’t show, it’s that he took the temp heroes showing up as a sign of Ladybug replacing him as her partner rather than filling a vacant but necessary role

And the problem only worsened when Chat stopped showing up to fights even when he had every opportunity to, opting out due to being depressed that Ladybug was relying more on the temp heroes… which in turn forced Ladybug to rely more on the temp heroes. He was creating his own problem

And it stumps me how so many Marinette salters decided that it was her fault for letting things get so bad between them that he was sitting out akuma fights due to depression. Dumber still, people agreeing with Adrien and saying that Ladybug is replacing Chat and she shouldn’t keep bringing out the temp heroes and instead rely more on Chat

Guys, I’m sure she’d love to rely more on Chat, but right now she can’t even rely on him to show up to his job. What do you realistically want her to do? Fight akumas all alone, without any backup? Not fight the akuma until Chat shows up first, thus enabling the akuma to run rampant and unchecked through Paris until then? Somehow figure out Chat Noir’s identify, show up at Adrien’s house and beg him to help her fight? What’s her realistic alternative to the temp heroes?

Kuro Neko is where this comes to a head. To start we have salters saying that Ladybug’s interview was insulting to Chat, but I don’t see it at all. Her exact words were “Of course [Chat and I aren’t at odds with each other], it's just that... umm, he's a partner like any other! The most important is to pick the best superheroes for each mission, with or without Cat Noir. No matter what, we've got a great team and we'll always be here to save Paris.”

She’s saying that Chat Noir wasn’t necessary for the fight, not that he wasn’t wanted or missed. Could she have phrased it slightly better? Yes. But she was put on the spot to answer a question she doesn’t know the answer to but probably secretly fears the worst for, all while knowing that she needs to reassure the public that they’re safe and that she and all the other heroes will transform back any minute now

She was trying to say “Chat Noir’s absence isn’t because of any fights between us, and I can assure you that with the help of the team, Paris won’t be any less safe than it is when we work as a duo”, not “Chat Noir is useless and I’m phasing him out in favour of all these other heroes”

Chat finally shows up and addresses his issues, albeit totally out of the blue for Ladybug since this is the first time she’s actually gotten some form of confirmation that something is, in fact, wrong. Chat shows up out of nowhere after missing a ton of akuma fights, wants to hang out and chat while Ladybug is already on the clock, then offers to help her out by going to all the meeting spots to collect the loaned Miraculous

The problem here is that Chat doesn’t know half of their identities, so in order to help Ladybug, he needs her to break the identity rule in a non-emergency situation and reveal secrets that aren’t hers to share

He tries to argue that he already knows some of the heroes, which is fair, but even then it’s made pretty clear that Ladybug doesn’t have time to work out which heroes Chat knows the identities of and then tell him where these specific individuals are currently located

They’ll all be turning back any moment now, Ladybug included, and if she turns back then it’s game over for them all. At very least King Monkey would have only lasted another three or four seconds if Ladybug had gotten his Miraculous back, and he was left dangling from a chimney

Seems to me that Ladybug is not currently in a position where she’s able to accept Chat Noir’s help, but she has made it clear that she’ll talk to him after everything is taken care of and she’s no longer racing against the clock

But because she’s turning down Chat Noir’s offer of help, regardless of circumstances, the salters blame her for it as if she and all the others wouldn’t have turned back before she even finished sharing all the heroes’ locations

There’s also an argument going around of ‘she should have told him all their identities before’, but this is ignoring that, while it’s Ladybug’s job to know this stuff as both their Guardian and not Ladybug’s place to share the secrets of others, we’ve also had several episodes detailing how dangerous it is to break the identity rule; Queen Wasp, Heroes’ Day, Miraculer, Miracle Queen, Optigami, Sentibubbler, Rocketear. Hell, three of those happened just the other week or something

And just to clarify, Ladybug still doesn’t know that this is part of an overarching issue; as far as she knows, he showed up out of nowhere after a fight, she told him multiple times that she has to rush around gathering these Miraculous and that she didn’t have time to explain where she needed to meet everyone, he was teasing and making puns while interrupting her and then she snapped that “If you want to save me time, stop wasting it in the first place!” since he was being pushy at an inappropriate time when she didn’t have the time to talk it out calmly or anything

It’s an understandable reaction when you’re trying to do something very important and someone swoops in out of nowhere and pesters you with puns and demands while you’re already on the clock, and frankly Chat did need her to snap a bit to show she was serious

And all I have to say is… that’s it? That’s all she had to do to be the bad guy in this situation, according to salters? Yes, she could’ve been more polite, sure, but Chat was the one keeping her from doing her job. Showing up with the intention of helping doesn’t absolve him of causing further disruptions. At that point he was the one disregarding social convention

And then immediately after that, Chat tells her that she should just take his Miraculous away from him as well, to which she just gives a barebones acknowledgement as she rushes away, then expresses that she doesn’t know what he meant by that. She still thinks this is just him wanting to be helpful and not taking her responsibilities seriously in favour of being playful

This is an extreme overreaction to what she perceives as just a minor bump in the road, if anything, which is probably why she didn’t catch on right away what he meant; he wouldn’t really quit being a superhero altogether just over her not having the time to talk to him right this second, right?

Plagg is the one to break it to her that there’s an overarching issue; Chat’s co-dependency issues making him struggle with the idea that he’s not necessary because job-wise he can be replaced with the temp heroes and his struggles to healthily communicate this due to his stunted social development resulting in his bottled up feelings spilling over… wait, what? He said it was because she broke Chat’s heart by not being in love with him? When the hell did that become relevant?

But some salters ate up the idea that Ladybug rejecting Chat is a moral failing on her part and all this would’ve been solved if she just dated him already. The love square isn’t even a contender in these issues, why is this the explanation? And why are people falling for it? It’s clearly just another excuse to make Marinette ‘learn a lesson’ and blame her for all this while absolving Adrien of any perceived imperfections

And to clarify once more; MariBug is now finally aware that there is some overarching conflict, but she believes it’s just Chat being butthurt that she’s still not in love with him. So nothing new. Same conflict as always

Oh, and a bit of a tangent but what the hell were the salters thinking when they blamed Marinette for going to London in Hack-San? We saw her make several attempts to get out of it, then when she couldn’t she called Alya - the second most experienced superheroine after herself and someone already familiar with Tikki and already aware of Mari’s identity - to take over for her to ensure Paris still had a Ladybug hero

Even after she was long gone, Mari was still texting Alya non-stop to provide tips for being the Ladybug hero, including special tips on how to make Chat feel valued and happy. Girl thought of everything, did all she could, and you’re still managing to complain that she should’ve just… what? Confessed to her parents that she’s Ladybug so they’d have to let her stay? Run away? Destroy all their passports?

Look, even Tom was vibing with not going, but Marinette tried every trick in the book and it all failed, so she ensured she appointed the most qualified replacement she could. That’s called being responsible

I bet those salters are the same people that got pissed off when Ladybug yelled at Chat for abandoning Paris in the New York special, despite the fact that he left completely unannounced yet pre-planned and willingly, while knowing Ladybug wouldn’t be there and without appointing anyone to fill in in his absence and as such knowingly leaving Paris undefended

Anyway, things come to a head again in the finale when Chat is yelling at Ladybug mid-battle for keeping secrets from him and being too reliant on the temp heroes rather than him and all that fun stuff. Now remember, this is once again coming out of nowhere for Ladybug, who has managed to reach the season finale without actually knowing that she’s in the middle of a season-long conflict as opposed to just same old, same old

Ladybug is trying to defend herself from both the sentimonsters and from Chat’s accusations and insults, with no idea where all this animosity has ‘suddenly’ come from

More salters argue that, once again, Ladybug should’ve caved to his whims by now, and all I can do is wonder why the middle of a huge fight is seemingly their definition of an appropriate time for that conversation, let alone any time at all being appropriate for spilling secrets that aren’t yours to share and are being kept for the purpose of child safeguarding

Salters really need to understand that while LadyNoir are equals in terms of a team unit going into battle, Ladybug is still effectively Chat’s boss due to her Guardianship role. They don’t have to be equals in absolutely every aspect, and Marinette doing her job is not a flaw in Marinette’s character or an argument towards her being a bad person who doesn’t care about Chat Noir

Then we get to the big risk of giving a Miraculous to ‘Adrien’, and salters love to claim that it’s all Ladybug’s fault because she chose Felix and not Adrien. Can you guess what I’m going to ask how, guys?

As opposed to what???

Ladybug was knowingly under the influence of an akuma that impairs judgement. She came to a very logical conclusion given the information she had that ‘Adrien’ didn’t have a mark, and thus was the only person in Paris not judgmentally impaired. She was, need I remind you, correct

The only problem is that she didn’t know - and had no way of knowing - that at that moment, Felix was pretending to be Adrien for completely unrelated reasons, just so happening to get caught up in the crossfires of whatever the hell MariBug was getting up to that day. Her logic was ‘I can’t trust myself to make a smart decision, so I’ll go to someone who I can trust to make a smart decision’. And just because Felix was already acting the part, a fact she couldn’t have possibly known, suddenly she’s to blame for the fuck-up?

Anyway, when we finally begin to conclude the LadyNoir drama, it occurs when Ladybug realised that she’s been tricked and Felix steals her yo-yo. Adrien gets in a snide comment about “If you’re gonna trust me once, please let it be this time!” which should make exactly zero sense to Ladybug

And then we get to the final scene, where Ladybug breaks down crying and apologises for lying to Chat, not listening to him, keeping him at a distance and refusing his help

And I just… what? Chat’s done all these things without context to make it understandable or called for in the moment, yet the Marinette salters are just nodding along and agreeing that she’s the one at fault. So many of them have said that Ladybug didn’t deserve his forgiveness or his loyalty or his pep talk, it baffles me

And that brings me to conclude my biggest gripe about the LadyNoir drama and the Marinette salters that go with it; MariBug was almost solely blamed by the narrative and the salters alike, but she didn’t actually know anything at all was going on until Kuro Neko (episode 23 of 26)

From there she figured it was just some of Chat’s habitual pouting on the job over his advances being rejected until the very last episode of the season but never got clarification on what exactly had been bugging him for this long, then it all magically resolved without apology or explanation

He didn’t bother with that because, by the end of the episode, Chat had gotten his way; no more temp heroes. Ladybug was now forced to rely on him and only him, so he instantly quit fighting her and carried on as though nothing had ever happened. Ladybug must’ve been reeling, no wonder she was just listing off all the bad stuff she could think of that she might’ve done; she was trying to see which one stuck. Girl lasted the entire season drama without knowing what the drama was

Marinette salters to that extent don’t take into account her perspective of many situations, and a lot of it is from Chat stans getting mad when MariBug doesn’t bend over backwards to his every whim, even when he’s actively keeping them a secret from her. She’s just supposed to telepathically know what the problem is and is expected to fix it simply because ‘they’re partners’, when even that isn’t an obligation to care for him beyond a professional capacity

Sorry I know this one is long as all hell but it really annoys me how certain Marinette salters will practically invent problems to blame her for - the show’s writers included. And to be clear, I’ve done my share of Marinette salting before, she’s far from perfect, but I do think that a lot of the salt she gets is pretty baseless

TL;DR is that my worst issue with Marinette salters is how they often blame Marinette entirely for the season 4 LadyNoir drama despite the fact that a lot of their problems with her behaviour don’t really have a reasonable alternative and she didn’t ever actually work out what the drama was truly about, having not even known there was drama until episode 23 of 26

#ask #miraculous ladybug #ml ladybug #mlb #miraculous #marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste #chat noir #ladybug #ladynoir #mlb season 4 #ladynoir drama #writing #marinette salt #adrien salt #miraculous ladybug salt

[howhow326]

"Why did Adrien leave to London without telling us? His dad can't have that much control over him!"

I am twisting Nino's head around.

#ml salt #ml representation #and people say Ayla is a bad friend #alya sugar #and nino downplaying Gabriel's abuse is a consistent character trait now #he did it the first time in the season 4 finale #nino salt #maybe I will write that next Nino salt fic...

[marble-running]

And another problem with Miraculous Ladybug. In every Lila episode (at least up to the end of season 3), we have to have a series of flashbacks reminding us who the fuck she is and why we're supposed to hate her. Because for some reason, the writers don't think it's important to build her up as an antagonist, and instead will just throw her episodes in every so often. Season 3 isn't as bad as season 2 here, as she appears in a whopping 4 episodes besides her own (to varying degrees of relevance). But then she's back in Ladybug, and the class has apparently become so trusting of her, half of them believe Marinette pushed her down the stairs and stole her necklace.

I think they should have built up her influence over the class a bit more. As is, the only real allusion we get to anything like that is in Timetagger, when she's babysitting for Alya. That way they could avoid having to dumb down the entire class for the sake of the plot.

#miraculous ladybug #ml salt #lila rossi #I checked the wiki and season 4 looks like it has the same problem as season 2

[stormiclown]

I don’t know why my friends were so shocked when they watched the season finale of Miraculous Ladybug and realized it was so bad. Like, I’ve been mentally preparing myself for how ass it was going to be (note: i was kinda caught off guard by how much the stupidity was kicked into overdrive). Everyone and their mother knew that the season 4 finale was going to be just as underwhelming, terribly executed, and downright stupid like it’s predecessors.

#ml season 4 salt #ml writers salt #ml season finale #because what the hell #still not over the finale #mlb salt #miraculous ladybug #mlb post response #adrien salt

[miraculousalt]

The way they ve Lila get outed as liar in the leaks s so disappointing.

Really? They have her SAY IT out loud not knowing everyone can hear her? That's it? That's the ONE thing that'll ruin it bc of how contrived it is

& of course yet another HUGE conflict s solved by nothin more than everyone throwing themselves at Marinettes feet beggin for forgiveness. It's the third major conflict in 2 seasons that gets resolved by everyone havin to learn how wrong they were an that nothin but Marinettes words and point of view matters. Interesting conflicts dont exist anymore its all bout Marinette getting everything no matter what moralities need to be sacrificed for it.

Whats the end goal here? No one getsta have an opinion thats conflicting with Marinette anymore ever again? Bc everyone learned their lesson to never think differently from her again and never ask for somethin either?

#marinette salt #ml season 4 salt #ladybug salt #ladynoir critical #i'm tagging it salt fuck off #ml fandom salt #ml fandom critical #Ml season 5 salt #Ml leaks #Ml salt

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

Why did Nathalie follow Gabriel’s plans despite Emelie’s wishes?

    In season 5, we discover that Emelie left video recordings of her final moments before she fell into her comatose state. Of the many videos, one video revealed Emelie pleading with Nathalie to stop Gabriel from pursuing the miraculous in his last ditch effort to save her. Now, although we now know Emelie was against Gabriel's plans to pursue the miraculous, and despite Nathalie explaining to Gabriel in “Passion” that he should have abided by Emelie's wishes to stop, it was Nathalie who wasn’t quick to abide by Emelie's word at the beginning of the series and refrain from aiding Gabriel. So then, why did she despite knowing it wasn't what Emelie wanted? To put it simply, things just didn’t go as planned.

  Nathalie had an overwhelming amount of conflicting feelings, not just towards Emelie, but the entire Agreste family. Yes, Emelie entrusted Nathalie with what was basically her dying wish, however, after Emelie disappeared from the public eye and fell into her comatose state, it wasn’t just Gabriel and Adrien who grieved for her, Nathalie was grieving over Emelie just as much as them. Nathalie and Emelie were very close, and so even though Nathalie knew perfectly well that Emelie didn’t want to be brought back, it was Nathalie who faced a moment of weakness where she couldn't help but hope that maybe it was worth the risk to pursue the miraculous if it meant Emelie could be brought back into all of their lives.

     We know Nathalie had been hinted throughout the series to have developed feelings for Gabriel, she knew they were one sided, but those feelings alone were not her entire reason for aiding him and his plans. Nathalie admired Gabriel’s dedication and commitment to do whatever it takes to help those he loved, his devotion to his family was the entire reason Nathalie began to harbor an interest in him. And so, with her sadness for loosing Emelie growing deeper and deeper, it was not all to surprising to believe that Nathalie gave into her own desperations to see Gabriel’s dream beat the odds and bring Emelie back. It didn’t matter what kind of damage they inflicted onto Paris and the heroes, she was willing to risk it all and do whatever it takes to see Gabriel succeed. However, regardless of what they did, there was always one line she was never willing to break, Adrien.

    Nathalie said in “Stormy Weather 2″ that she should have never accepted the job as assistant to the Agreste family, and knowing now who Nathalie is, its understandable why. Nathalie was cold and distant at the beginning of the series, she tried to keep her relations with everyone around her as professional as possible, after all, Adrien was not her son, Gabriel was not her husband, she was just their assistant, she felt it was not her place to interfere with their lives to much and Gabriel made sure to remind her of this from time to time.

(Gabriel scolds Nathalie in “Onichan” for making a choice she felt was best for Adrien)

   And yet, as she watched Adrien grow up, Nathalie began to develop a stronger connection to him, a connection which only made things harder to bare the more she realized the struggles Adrien went through in his day to day life.  Although Emelie considered Nathalie part of the family and someone she could entrust to look after Adrien as a mother, Nathalie felt conflicted about what to do the more she became attached to Gabriel and Adrien. The longer she stayed by Adrien’s side, the more she began to prioritize his happiness over Gabriel’s word, and the longer she stayed by Gabriel's side, the more she realized just what she had been turning a blind eye to.

 In “Style Queen”, Nathalie knew Audrey was Gabriel’s greatest attempt at obtaining the ladybug and cat miraculous, but after his great attempt failed and as she saw him accept his failures, Nathalie genuinely believed this was the end of it all. If Gabriel was willing to accept he couldn’t bring Emelie back, then she was now ready to be by his and Adrien’s side to help them through their grief and be a little more involved in their lives. 

      However, in “Queen Wasp”, when Nathalie gave that saddened look after realizing Gabriel decided to continue pursuing the miraculous, Nathalie began to take note of just how stubborn of a man Emelie said Gabriel was, she began to realize that despite Gabriel's intentions to help his family, Gabriel might have been letting his failure of defeating the heroes and obtaining the miraculous take control of his better judgment, and yet Nathalie did not stop him, why? Because she only wanted what was best for the Agreste family, she believed in Gabriel and she still held out hope that his plans would be worth it all and work out in the end, returning everything to normal. 

     However, in “Risk”, as Nathalie saw Gabriel laugh maniacally over what he could do next to defeat the heroes, Nathalie had once again taken note of something she couldn't bring herself to accept before, which is that Gabriel may no longer be the man she once knew him to be, but it wasn’t until “Evolution” did she finally realize Emelie's concern. 

(Nathalie concerned as she watches Gabriel laugh maniacally in “Risk” over his new plan to defeat the heroes)

      Emelie didn't just want her to stop Gabriel from pursuing the miraculous, she knew that pursuing the miraculous would take over his life. When Gabriel gave news that he had now obtained all the miraculous in the miracle box, Nathalie wasn’t happy, she was worried, because of the many things he could have done with so much power, all he could talk about was the many ways he could use it to defeat Ladybug and Cat Noir. 

     When Nathalie discovered that Gabriel chose to set aside the opportunity to travel back in time and save Emelie, as well as herself, from their fate of using the broken peacock miraculous, all in the attempt to pursue Ladybug and Cat Noir, Nathalie finally came to terms with what she had feared, Gabriel had lost sight of his family, he was now consumed by his mad obsession with defeating the heroes, but worsts of all, Nathalie knew that if she had abided more by Emelie's wishes from the beginning, she would have had a better chance of convincing Gabriel to stop. Unfortunately, it wasn’t just Gabriel who lost sight of what was important, in the beginning, Nathalie did to, she lost sight of what Emelie wished, she lost sight of the damage Gabriel's plans had on Adrien and himself, and she would have lost sight of herself if she hadn't come to terms with Emelie's final words and given into her motherly affection for Adrien.

    In “Passion”, despite Nathalie's attempts to prioritize Emelie's wishes and be more assertive over Gabriel to make him understand that what he was doing was not worth the risk and should instead devote himself to being the father Adrien needed, it was the horrifying realization of her and Gabriel’s inevitable doom that made her realize it was to late.

  Nathalie has no choice but to help Gabriel achieve his goal of obtaining the miraculous, because if she doesn't, Adrien will be doomed to live the remainder of his life as an orphan. The most she could do now to make up for her mistakes, was to somehow obtain the miraculous before Gabriel and make a wish of her own, but most of all, Nathalie was now willing to let go of her hesitation and allow herself to be more involved in Adrien’s life, after all, she already had Emelie’s blessing to look after him like a mother would, as such, she wasted no time in confronting and standing up to Gabriel more in order to ensure that his new found madness did not lead him to ruin the life of his son. Weather or not she will still be able to be part of Adrien’s life in the future is unknown and weather or not a solution to her condition will appear is something we will need to wait and see in the show.

#miraculous ladybug #thomas astruc #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #tales of ladybug and cat noir #ml season 4 #ml s5 spoilers #mlb s5 spoilers #ml analysis #ml s5 analysis #ml salt #mlb salt #nathalie sancoeur #ml mayura #gabriel agreste #ml monarch #emelie agreste #adrien agrest #ml cat noir #marinette dupain cheng #ml ladybug #miraculous ladybug season 5