#Whatever you wanna ship

[greenglowinspooks]

(DCxDP) The obligations of a rogue versus those of a parent (Pt. 4)

—

Tw: descriptions of body horror, Dr. Crane has PTSD and Does Not Realize, Crane has an actual panic attack and just doesn’t care, the Riddler makes one (1) sex joke about Batman

Will be crossposted to AO3 eventually

(Pt. 1 here) (Prev here) - (Pt. 5 here)

(Masterlist here)

—

Dr. Jonathan Crane is in his lab, the acrid scent of chemicals filling the air, and his hands are shaking.

Danny’s health, for the first week that he had him, had been steadily improving at an extremely quick rate. However, his healing had begun to stagnate. Danny said that it was because his body had run out of ectoplasm, and that while there was a lot of ambient ectoplasm in Gotham, he needed a stronger type in order to heal.

And so, that led Dr. Crane here.

He had stolen the research notes from the Penguin years ago regarding his experimentation on him.

(He quite vividly remembers the sound of bone creaking and groaning as it twisted, lengthened. The squelching of shifting tendons and muscles, the strange fabric-like tightening of skin. The feeling of going from man to monster, of losing all claim to his humanity.)

Danny had called him Liminal, part ghost. He had said that he was transformed by, among other things, a kind of synthetic ectoplasm.

Danny needed ectoplasm.

Crane had the research notes. He had every ingredient necessary. And yet, attempt after attempt failed.

The chemical smell burns his nose. His hands tremble.

Dr. Crane is not afraid.

He doesn’t feel fear anymore. He’s tried to, many, many times, but nothing has worked. And yet, his hands are shaking still.

(The horrifying sensation of vertebrae pop-pop-popping along his spine, growing and lengthening. The unbearable itching beneath his skin as toxin glands begin to form. The feeling of his teeth sharpening and elongating, of his skull growing, of his vision changing and brightening. The awful stench of chemicals. The awful stench of ectoplasm.)

Jonathan takes careful note of his shaking hands, his blurring vision, his accelerated heart-rate and shallow breathing.

(Human hands. Human vision. Human heart and lungs and organs.)

He takes note of them, but he does not let that distract him from the task at hand. Danny is not a chemist, but Jonathan is.

The boy knows enough about chemistry in theory, but he won’t go anywhere near Crane’s equipment. He seems to have some sort of intense fear of laboratory settings, probably developed during his stay with the GiW, and Crane is willing to respect that, if only because he cannot afford to lose him.

As such, Crane is the only one qualified to do this. And, unfortunately, if he isn’t successful the boy may very well die.

He heats the chemicals to precisely the right temperatures, adding each one to its correct container.

Dr. Crane thinks of the Scarebeast, that creature born of cruelty and greed and a sense of superiority. That creature which he tries to ignore is a part of him, that can never be removed. A damage which cannot be undone.

He pours the contents of a small beaker into a larger flask, watching the liquids swirl together. The stench in the air is becoming closer and closer to the one burned into his memory.

Crane’s whole body is wracked with unpleasant sensations. It’s truly unfortunate, he thinks, that despite his mind’s lack of fear, his body still reacts so harshly.

Jonathan’s eyes wander, eventually settling on a purple and green card sitting innocently on the corner of the table.

Right.

Even if they wiped out the GiW tomorrow, and even if Danny could survive without ectoplasm, he would still be in danger.

Crane has to get him back to good health. It’s the only way he can be sure that the boy can defend himself properly.

The solution in the flask begins to foam, and Jonathan does not hesitate as he adds the final ingredient. He pours the mixture into a new container, capping it and placing it into a freezer set to -40 degrees.

Hopefully this time he got the timing right.

Jonathan tries to relax, the ventilation in the room slowly but surely clearing the familiar smell from the air.

He thinks of the letter.

Surely, he thinks, that man can come up with some better material for his jokes. Or, at least something new.

Same old threats, same old attempted poisoning.

Aiming his threats at Danny, though, that was new. New and utterly unacceptable.

Scarecrow did what he had to.

He doubted that his solution would last forever, of course, as with that man it never did. As such, he would prepare both himself and Danny for the inevitable moment that his choices came back to bite them.

However, for the moment, they were safe. Danny could rest and recover, and Jonathan could figure out a plan to minimize possible damages.

Jonathan is no longer shaking.

He’s exhausted. This is his fifth attempt today, and each one leaves an unfortunate strain on his mind and body.

With a sigh, he settles himself into his seat at a nearby desk, opening up his computer and logging his most recent attempt. He still has to wait for it to chill to know if it was successful, but he can always update the logs later.

Once he’s done, he stretches, joints popping loudly as he walks to the freezer.

When he sees the results of his tireless work, the ghost of a smile flits across his face.

Success.

Jonathan picks up the jug of ectoplasm and leaves the lab, which is in all actuality the basement of the new apartment that he moved himself and Danny into after receiving the note. The scrappy old woman who was his landlord had told him that as long as he paid her five hundred dollars up front, she would let him set up in the basement without any questions or cop calls.

And so, the most expensive apartment in the Narrows was his.

At least, he thought, the distance between the basement and the apartment was short enough that Danny didn’t have to sit in while he was doing his labwork.

Jonathan knew that he didn’t exactly have a strong grasp on the concept of ‘lab safety,’ proven by his built-up immunity to almost every toxic chemical he’d ever encountered, and he doubted that Danny should be around such an environment.

He was back to the apartment quickly, not bothering to hide the self-satisfied smile on his face. Danny is sitting in his armchair, trying to read one of his books. Danny looks up, ready to greet him, when he sees the jug in his hands and pauses.

“Is that..?”

“Synthetic ectoplasm,” Jonathan says proudly, “I found the Penguin’s research notes and decided to recreate it, since you said that you needed it to heal properly. I’m not sure if it’ll work the same as what you usually have, but I hope it’s helpful all the same.”

Danny is standing, now, and looking at Jonathan with a strange look in his eyes. He looks, Jon thinks, like he’s about to cry.

Then Danny is rushing forward and wrapping his arms around Jonathan, his scrawny form shaking.

Jonathan is, for a moment, horrified. Did he do something wrong somehow? Why is this child, who’s so afraid of touch, hugging him?

And then he hears Danny’s voice, and he knows that it was all worth it.

“Thank you,” he’s mumbling, over and over, “thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much.”

“Of course,” Jonathan says softly, because what else can he say?

The boy cries in his arms for a while, and Jonathan briefly wonders what his life must have been like before, if a person like him can be seen as a comforting figure.

Then, Danny pours himself a small glass of the synthetic ectoplasm, putting the rest into the small fridge which had come with the apartment, and he settles back down, sitting in the armchair once again.

Jonathan sits opposite of him, and they chat with one another as Danny drinks.

Danny talks to him about the stars and tells him about different spaceships, and Jonathan makes sure to pay attention and ask the boy questions.

He doesn’t miss the way that Danny lights up every time he asks him something about his interests. He’s so passionate, so smart, a trait that he seldom sees outside of his fellow rogues, and Jonathan wants to encourage that.

It’s…nice. Peaceful, almost.

And then the front door flies open, because Jonathan isn’t allowed to have nice things.

“Jon,” a familiar voice rings out, “what the hell?!”

Danny is frozen in place, clearly terrified.

Jonathan heaves a sigh, turning to face the nuisance who’s entered his apartment.

“Eddie,” he drawls, “to what do I owe the pleasure?”

Edward’s face is red with anger as he invades Jonathan’s apartment.

“Oh, I don’t know! Maybe it’s the fact that you sent a bunch of rogues a cryptic message and then dropped off the face of the earth for two weeks! I was worried, Jon!”

Jonathan hums in acknowledgement.

“I didn’t think it was that cryptic,” he says, picking up a book in order to pointedly ignore the Riddler.

“Oh, of course you didn’t, you straw-stuffed hickory dickory dickhead. I swear, you’re always—” he pauses, finally having noticed Danny sitting opposite of Jonathan, “—who is this?”

“My apprentice,” Jonathan replies, dreading the upcoming headache he was no doubt going to develop from Edward’s company, “he’s helping me hunt down the GiW. His name is Danny.”

Edward gasps dramatically.

“You—an apprentice?! And you’re letting him sit in the old man chair?! You don’t even let me sit in the old man chair,” he wails, draping himself over the headrest of the couch with a flourish, “Jonathan, I thought I knew you!”

“Edward,” Jonathan says, “get out of my apartment.”

“Oh my goodness, this is incredible. You’re becoming the bat!”

“I am not becoming the bat, Eddie, now get out.”

Edward has a shit-eating grin on his face as he waltzes over to Danny. Danny, who seemed terrified when he first appeared, is now looking at him with obvious amusement written all over his face.

“I mean, look at him! The hair, the eyes, the scrappy build. If you put him in one of those traffic light vigilante costumes, he could easily pass as a Robin!”

“I’m not doing this with you today, Eddie.”

“Riddle me this, Jon: I am a treasure hidden inside of a chest. You can break me, or steal me, or give me a rest. I can flutter, or pound, or attack, or drop, but if you don’t have me, you’re certainly fucked. What am I?”

Jonathan pauses for a moment before he groans, dropping his head into his hands.

“Eddie.”

Danny sits still, a confused look on his face as he repeats the riddle silently. Then, his face lights up in delight.

“A heart!”

“Jon, I like this one,” Edward says with a smile, ruffling Danny’s hair, “you are correct! A heart, something that I wasn’t aware that our dear Jonathan had!”

“Eddie, stop.”

“No, no,” Edward says, “I was worried about you, you deserve this. I mean, you even missed girls night! You never miss girls night!”

“Girls night?” Danny asks, absolutely delighted.

“Oh, of course,” Edward says, sprawling over on the couch, dangerously close to just laying in Jonathan’s lap, “we have it once a week. I’m invited because of Selina and Jon’s invited because Harley likes him.”

“And what does girls night entail, exactly?”

“Eddie,” Jonathan groans, “please.”

“Well,” Edward hums, “we usually paint our nails, or watch a movie, or gossip about the other rogues, and occasionally, we tell each other about any ‘encounters’ we have with Batman,” he says, raising his eyebrows up and down.

Danny’s jaw drops.

“Edward, shut up,” Jonathan says, an irritated tone in his voice that wasn’t there before.

“No way,” Danny says, “I thought that Batman, like, hated you guys or something. You mean he actually..?”

“Oh, the Bat is much like a bottle of liquor or a cheap cigarette, in that he was made to be passed around.”

Danny chokes on air.

“Edward Nygma,” Jonathan hisses, getting out of his seat and looming over the man, “get the hell out.”

Edward pales.

“Leaving, leaving!” Edward says, dashing away from Jonathan. He pauses, turning to flash Danny a quick smile.

“Remember Danny, I’m your favorite uncle! Not any of the other rogues, me!”

With that, he leaves, the room falling completely silent.

And, as per usual, that silence does not last.

“You full-named him?” Danny asks gleefully, “and it worked?”

Jonathan just sighs, sitting down on the couch and rubbing at his temples.

“Please, don’t take anything Eddie says seriously. He’s a moron.”

“Dr. Crane, please let me come to girls night with you,” Danny pleads, his eyes sparkling, “I promise I won’t embarrass you.”

Jonathan groans.

“Of course you won’t, Eddie will do it for you.”

“Come on, please?”

“I think we’re a bit busy with the GiW at the moment,” Jonathan snaps. He pauses as he notices the crestfallen expression on Danny’s face.

This boy is going to be the death of him.

“Perhaps, though, when all that is taken care of…”

Danny cheers, grinning wildly, and Jonathan is not at all relieved to see him happy again. Certainly not.

The rest of the day is relatively normal.

Danny works on trying to get information from the GiW database while Crane refines his his fear toxin, both preparing for a raid on the GiW base they located in Gotham.

It was only a temporary base, nothing of note, but there was a chance of discovering more bases through it, and that wasn’t something either of them were willing to give up.

Still, something like this would take time. Rushing would only lead to failure.

…

Late in the night, long after Danny is fast asleep in his room, Jonathan pauses.

The GiW are not the only threat out there. They aren’t the only threat to him or to Danny. Perhaps it could be helpful to reach out to someone with greater resources than himself.

He sends a quick message to Red Hood.

Hopefully, he thinks, everything will go smoothly.

—

#dcxdp #dc x dp #dp x dc #dpxdc #dp x dc crossover #dc x dp fic #liminal scarecrow #Jon’s PTSD is triggered by the smell of ectoplasm because his life is a nightmare #HDJFNDNDNFKDJF #I am the master of emotional whiplash #rip Jon just trying to have some peace in this fucking house #never gonna happen king 🫡 #oh also Eddie is not lying that bat can manwhore #and like half the rogues in Gotham know this from experience #and also most of the JL #and some of JL dark #btw Eddie and Jon are besties #they’re both awful but they make it work #when Jon full-names Eddie that just means that if he doesn’t stop whatever he’s doing he’s gonna get a dose of fear toxin #Eddie isn’t intimidating enough to full-name anyone so if he gets mad he just bashes whoever in the head with his cane #Jon is the living embodiment of ‘me and my girl don’t argue she bash me in the head with a rock and I walk it off like a man’ #also side note I’m not doing any ships in this #because I don’t want to #they are just Like That #if you wanna read it that way though it’s completely fine #also shoutout 2 that one scriddler fic on ao3 that helped inspire that riddle LMAO

[beanghostprincess]

me: all sanji fics are the same! it's always sanji having a breakdown over liking a man and going into an identity crisis and a spiral of internalized homophobia-

also me every time i read a sanji fic: OH MY GOD SANJI HAVING A BREAKDOWN OVER LIKING A MAN AND GOING INTO AN IDENTITY CRISIS AND A SPIRAL OF INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA THIS IS SO GOOD AWKEBFNALKEWNFLKANELKN

#tbf it's just me relating to the 'being fucking repressed' part #i'm a lesbian who dealt with comphet for a very long time okay #and i just LOVE a good internalized homophobia fic #he's so traumatized someone free him from this jail called heteronormativity #he's such a cutie patootie i wanna kiss him and hug him and tell him everything will be okay #sanji you can kiss men it's fine darling #one piece #sanji #sanuso #lusan #acesan #zosan #whatever sanji ship you like idk

[magnetic-rose]

sorry but monsterfucking has always been a big part of the fallout fandom with charon and hancock having the most romance fanfics written about them in fallout 3 and 4 respectively soooo... if you wanna make snide lil comments about how the ghoul/lucy is gross and you're already starting to harass people who ship them then maybe this fandom just isn't for you. :)

#fallout #lucy maclean #cooper howard #i'm not saying you have to ship them you can do whatever you want #but if you wanna go around saying that people who ship them are disgusting then this isn't the fandom for you sorry #there's a million other franchises that don't have monsterfucking that you can enjoy instead

[canongf]

sometimes you love a character so loudly that it becomes how people find you, how people connect with you, how people know you. and then. sometimes you fall in love with a new character. and you think "but the first character is how people know me, i can't change how people know me. i can't love a new character." but i am here to tell you that connection is actually a very resilient thing and the people that care about you will happily learn you over and over and over again if you give them the chance. just do what you wanna do.

#v specific post but i'm making it anyway baby!!! #sometimes u get stuck in this weird thing of like. but this is my Brand. #and actually u can do whatever u wanna do and ur friends will support u. v cool :) #self ship #self shipping #self ship community #self shipping community #mine.txt #positivity.txt #like i used to be the bucky girl #and i still love bucky v v much #but i fell in love w eddie!!! #and things shifted and feelings shifted!!! #and my friends were like 'so cool we love this for you' and everything is great :)

[tubbytarchia]

"Cool ship art, unfortunately I'm interpreting it platonically" dude it's literally fine lol. Guys please. Art is meant to be interpreted. Don't call it unfortunate just because you think your interpretation differs from the artist's vision (and please refrain from using wording that implies strictly correct and wrong interpretations, it dismisses others!)

#blabber #Sorry this is just. A bit demoralising and dismissive to me as an artist #And well theres a whole other convo to be had about romantic vs platonic interpretation specifically #me personally though I could not give less of a fuck #I view some ships as more romantic and some as more platonic but I personally hate having to sort art into these two specific categories #I just wanna draw girls kissing man. To you as the viewer it can be whatever you want it to be

[robynrocksforbrains]

Mike Wheeler is important and there's nothing wrong with analyzing him

Since y'all wanna be insufferable bitches about it I'm gonna explain to you why he's important, why Will loves him, why his struggles should be acknowledged, and why his character depth is pivotal to byler endgame being a satisfying conclusion for both Mike AND Will. Deal with it!

We are not seeing smoke where there isn't a flame. We are seeing smoke where there is a literal fucking forest fire.

Starting off with something a lot of people aren't ready for but I've seen more people talking about: Mike is the main character of s1 at the very least. He is the character that brings us into the world of stranger things. He is the character that the writers chose for this. Mike is the main character of s1 and it was an instant hit. The writers love Mike. Contrary to popular belief, giving a character an arc where they are struggling and their behavior changes from what is normal for the character we know and love does NOT mean the writers hate that character. It means they deliberately chose to give that character complexity and depth. Your inability to like characters that do anything wrong ever is not the fault of the writers. Your decision to act as if a character is not important is not reflective of the actual narrative because it in fact is in direct opposition to the narrative. So just to be clear, if you genuinely believe that Mike isn't important, or that the writers hate him, or don't care about him, or that his story "takes away" from any other character's - ESPECIALLY WILL'S - you are simply wrong.

In s1 and s2 Mike is established as an extremely caring person. He's loving, loyal, brave, intelligent, and trying his best. He is also established to be hot headed, someone who speaks without thinking quite often, someone who is capable of hurting his friends despite that being the last thing he wants to do. He is all of these things and more. He is a human. He is a kid. So in s3, when suddenly he is entirely different, it is completely logical to assume that there is a reason for that. He did not just wake up one day and decide he wanted to be an asshole, push Will away, make his friends feel abandoned, and echo the same sentiments their bullies held. Something is happening with him. He has so much going on in his head and it is painfully obvious. He's holding something in, he's hiding from everyone and from himself. We see glimpses of what he's trying to hide after Will calls him out on his behavior. Will gets through to him. Mike is usually unresponsive to tough love, except for when it's coming from Will. After their fight, it is obvious that he's trying to be better. But he still doesn't wanna face certain things, and he doesn't know how to navigate that. Because he's 13 years old.

There is a reason for all of that internal conflict. There is a reason it comes pouring out of him at certain times. He's crumbling. He is quite literally falling apart because he's holding on to too much. It's not a stretch to assume that, it just takes basic media literacy. Why would the writers have Mike act this way if he was just supposed to be a one dimensional character? Why would Finn be directed to portray Mike the way he does if there was nothing more going on? There are times where Mike looks like he's in physical pain because of his internal conflict. There is a reason for that. And acknowledging that DOES NOT mean people are taking away from Will. That's the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Do y'all seriously not understand that more than one character can have emotionally complex storylines? Genuinely asking, is this a new concept for you?

Will's love for Mike

Will is head over heels in love with Mike. That is very much established. So when you're dismissing the emotional depth of Mike's individual arc because you think acknowledging it "takes away from Will" you are actually diminishing the significance of a huge aspect of Will's emotional arc. By taking away the significance of Mike, you take away from the significance of Will.

Let's do a quick recap of the very significant role Mike has played in Will's entire life:

Mike is Will's first friend.

They have grown up together and it can be assumed that they've reached important milestones together.

Mike has always been a safe person for Will. He's been a constant in Will's very chaotic and unfair life. Until the summer of '85, Mike had always been something good in Will's life. (That's not to say he is no longer something good, but it can be assumed that the summer of '85 is the first time Mike has been a causal factor in Will's unhappiness)

When Will went missing, Mike did not hesitate to search for him. It wasn't even a question of if. The moment he knew Will was missing he knew exactly what he'd be doing that night. He spearheaded the search amongst the party. He was the leader.

When Will came back, Mike was the only person that didn't treat him like he was gonna break. He cared for him, and he was there for him, but he didn't treat him differently; Will tells us as much. Which means we can infer that the way Mike was with Will in s2 - how gentle and loving he was - was nothing new. He had just always been like that.

When Will was possessed, Mike stayed by his side. Even when it was scary, even when it could've gotten him killed, he stayed. Because once again, for him, it wasn't even a question. That's just where he knew he needed to be. He was in the shed when they were trying to get through to Will. He was set apart from Lucas and Dustin, but he also wasn't equated to family. And his retelling of the story of the day they first met was the final push Will needed to find a way to communicate.

After a year of things being "weird" between them, Mike tells Will that he didn't deserve to be treated the way he had been. Mike tells him that he wants them to be okay again, and for the rest of the season he puts in the work.

Things get rough in s3, and at the beginning of s4, and despite all of that, Will confesses his love (albeit veiled). In a moment where Mike is feeling awful about himself, he tells him that he loves him and needs him, and he tells him why. And to him it doesn't matter that he's breaking his own heart to do it, because it's Mike. Mike, who makes him feel like he's not a mistake at all, and that he's better for being different. For Will, there was no other option. The person he loves was hurting and he knew how to help, and so he did.

Mike is the first person Will tells about Vecna still being alive. Because they're back to being a team. He knows he can trust Mike, and Mike seems to be very determined to prove him right.

SO.

These are all real and canon aspects of Mike's presence in Will's life. Will falling in love with Mike isn't something that just happened for no reason. Will fell in love with Mike because of who Mike is. When you acknowledge that, and when you acknowledge the reasons they've set out for why Will loves him - the reasons Will literally told us - you can better understand Will. But when you dismiss all of these things about Mike, you are dismissing a large portion of Will's emotional and romantic arc. You aren't being a Will Warrior. You are erasing so much of him and his feelings and his lived experience. That is not the hill you wanna die on.

Will loves a person. Not a feeling. Yes, he says that Mike makes him feel like he's not a mistake and that he's better for being different. But that's not why he loves him. He feels that way because he loves him.

Mike is a fully fleshed out character with his own feelings and struggles and fears and traumas and motivations. He's not a plot device. He's not just an accessory to Will's arc. He's not a character that was written only to be Will's love interest. He's Will's love interest because he's Mike.

If Mike didn't matter, and if Mike didn't play a significant role in byler, then they would be able to write in a love interest for Will in s5 and have it be somewhat satisfying. But they can't do that. Will's love for Mike has so much depth because Mike has so much depth. It is genuinely crazy that this has to be stated and that I have to back up this claim because it is simply a canon fact.

So yes, the rain fight affects Mike's character development and his involvement in it is important. Yes, the van scene literally could not exist without Mike and therefore his involvement in it is incredibly important. Yes, every single byler moment has an impact on Mike, and Mike has an impact on it because they are BYLER moments. Yes, Mike will have a lot of significant moments - with Will AND on his own - in s5 because his arc deserves and needs as much attention as Will's in order to execute byler endgame in a satisfying way.

No, none of these facts negate Will's importance or take away from his story. If anything, they add to it because Mike and Will's arcs are corresponding and intertwined.

Mike's struggles

To name a few

Dysfunctional family

Has been bullied his entire life

Extreme self worth issues

Inferiority complex

Hero complex

Lack of self preservation

Suicidal ideation (has been on display since SEASON ONE)

Internalized homophobia

To get this out of the way: Mike's internalized homophobia is allowed to be discussed. Discussion of it is not the dismissal of Will's internalized homophobia. Surprise surprise, two queer kids in the 80s have internalized homophobia! Who'd'a thunk it?! Their internalized homophobia presents in different ways but it is there for both of them. I personally relate to the way Mike's is portrayed way more than I relate to Will's. So why is it that we can't discuss it without being accused of erasing Will's experience? Or without people saying that we're "copy and pasting" Will's story? Because quite frankly, that feels dismissive of my - and likely many others' - real and lived experience. So please for the love of all things that are good just stop with this talking point because it will never hold up.

Moving on

I'm not gonna do a full breakdown of all of Mike's issues. Because contrary to popular belief, there are a lot. And that would be exhausting and I'd get carried away and it's not the point of this post. The point of this post is to defend the acknowledgement and mere existence of them.

If you're a byler that for some reason thinks Mike only exists to be Will's love interest and his trophy as compensation for his trauma, let me ask you this: Have you considered how awful it would be to have a queer character's individuality and emotional depth completely ignored for the sake of focusing on the queer character that "really matters"?

If Mike's own issues, with his queer identity and otherwise, aren't thoroughly explored... What's the point of all this? If Mike really is insignificant in this storyline and his individuality has no effect on it.. where's the emotional payoff? If his perspective doesn't matter... Why have the writers gone to such great lengths to ensure we don't have that piece of the puzzle yet?

Analyzing Mike and understanding Mike is very important to understanding byler. Once again, I think it's crazy that this needs to be said.

I also think it's important to note that characters can have similar struggles. There's no rule against that. Just like real life. Characters having similar struggles is not a bad thing, and acknowledging that their struggles are similar is not dismissive of either character. We're talking about STRANGER THINGS. Jonathan and Nancy's thing is "we've got shared trauma". They have literal matching scars. Shared experiences are some of the main building blocks for this show's romances. Byler has a TON of shared experience, basically their entire lives. We already know that. So wouldn't it be so beautiful for them to learn that they've been struggling with the same thing this whole time? That the entire time they felt alone in what they were going through when really they had each other and they never even knew it? Wouldn't it be so beautiful for Mike's acceptance of Will and Will's love for him was also a step toward accepting himself? Wouldn't it be beautiful for Will to learn that his love makes Mike feel like he's not a mistake? None of that would be in the realm of possibility if Mike didn't have emotional depth and if his individuality wasn't important.

And that leads me to my concluding point...

A satisfying execution of byler endgame hinges on Mike's individual emotional arc being handled well

God I hope this isn't controversial to say. I sincerely hope most people haven't forgotten that.

Here's a hypothetical:

Imagine season five has been released. You're watching it, and you notice that Mike has been relegated to just a supporting character for Will. We don't get any of his perspective. We don't get any explanation for his s3 and early s4 behavior. His breakup with El doesn't have any real tangible effect on him, it's really just used for El's character development. We never see him pining for Will like we saw Will pining for him. And then suddenly Mike is learning about the painting and then suddenly he's confessing his love and then suddenly byler is canon and official.

Now wouldn't that just be awful? Wouldn't that be unfair to the audience, to Mike, and to Will? For us to never learn just how much Mike had to go through to even be able to say it out loud? For Mike to never get the chance to prove to himself through word and action that he is the heart? For Will to never get an explanation for why things did get so "weird" between them? It would leave us with one big, nagging question: What was the point of everything Mike has said and done throughout the entire show if his conclusion is that lackluster?

Disregarding Mike for a moment (I know that's incredibly ironic given what the entire point of this is but just bear with me) - how would that be a satisfying conclusion for Will? I mean, Will's s4 arc was basically dedicated to showcasing his struggle with his sexuality and with his love for Mike. We were shown just how deep that love is. We were shown how patient, unselfish, unwavering, and beautiful that love is. So how would it be satisfying for Mike's love for him to not be shown with just as much depth? How would it be satisfying for Mike to just be a one dimensional character whose s5 arc is essentially "break up with girlfriend, wait to find out best friend is in love with him, say he loves him back, then they live happily ever after"? I think Will deserves for his love to be returned with the same intensity at which he gives it. And I think it should be clear to the audience and to Will himself.

Back to Mike!

Mike has been through so much shit. I don't think anyone that is denying that actually believes he hasn't been through shit. Because you'd actually have to watch the show on mute and with your eyes closed to think this kid hasn't had just the worst time. It's so ignorant to act as if this stuff hasn't affected him. There's stuff we've seen but there's stuff we also haven't seen. There are issues he has that date back to his childhood pre-canon. Just like Will, Mike has been a queer kid growing up in 80s smalltown conservative america. Acknowledging the pain he 100% carries because of that is so important. His perspective has been withheld from us, not because it's unimportant, but because it's the final puzzle piece. If we had Mike's perspective in s4, byler wouldn't be a "will they won't they" (even though we all know they will). If we got his perspective in s4, byler would be a "100% certain without a doubt they will". But the thing about his perspective is that it's so much more than just loving Will. It's fear. It's pain. It's insecurity. It's doubt. It's the belief that his happiness just doesn't matter all that much. All of that has to be explored. All of that has to be laid out in the open for us in order for byler endgame to feel earned. Mike's emotional payoff will lead to byler's emotional payoff.

Mike has known he loves Will. In s5 we will see him make a deliberate and active effort to overcome the things keeping him from doing something about it. And then he will do something about it.

And so when it finally happens. When both Mike and Will finally know that their feelings are requited, and when their arcs end with us knowing that they will face whatever life has in store for them together, that will feel earned. That will feel like the logical conclusion for both of them. Not just for Mike. Not just for Will. For both.

And Mike is just as important to that conclusion as Will is.

And one last thing...

Some people are going to talk about Mike more. Some people are going to talk about Will more. Because newsflash, people have preferences. Some people just relate to Mike more, or they find his emotional arc extremely compelling, or they just like him. It isn't an attack on Will or any other character. No one is saying Mike is more important than any other character (I'm sure there are people that say that but they are a vocal minority and they are simply wrong). We are just saying that he is important. If you wanna engage in media analysis, please understand that "main character" or "central character" does not mean "only important character" and "only character that should be analyzed". If you wanna talk about Will and only Will, that's fine. But you don't get to act like people that talk about other characters are doing a disservice to your fave, because that's not how any of this works.

#mike defenders i need you to back me up on this #i hope my points come across well #anyway #the way people have been talking about mike lately is so infuriating #its called BYLER analysis because its the analysis of BYLER the ship involving will AND mike #st fandom consistently proving that they have absolutely no idea how fandom works #its almost like people wanna talk about things they care about and you dont get to tell them to shut up #if you dont wanna see people talking about mike you can just mute tags about him #but if you dont wanna talk about mike youre missing a huge part of the byler puzzle and thats your loss #please just let people discuss whatever they want to discuss as long as its not ACTUALLY harmful #sometimes i think y'all are allergic to fun #byler #mike wheeler #mike wheeler analysis #will byers #< this is about him too #byler analysis #byler endgame #stranger things

[mintypsii]

watched usopp's little arc with defeating sugar and wow it took A LOT for him to turn back after running away to fight them again. but then later he finds out that she's awake and thinks about how he'll lose his memories of Luffy if he doesn't take care of her again, and IMMEDIATELY makes up his mind to shoot her from SO FAR AWAY?

#i know what you are #IM KIDDING #ugh they all love their friends so much i hate this show (affectionate) #man seeing usopp's growth has been SO 🔥🔥🔥🔥‼️‼️‼️💝💝💝 #esp when it comes to his friends #he's one of the wimpiest on the crew but i still think he should get more credit for all his feats so far anyways #AND THAT ONE SCENE WHERE LUFFY WAS LIKE “haha dw usopp's there so it'll be okay!” WHEN THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE LITTLE PPL UNDERGROUND #and also when people were like yay god usopp saved us and luffy went “i love when ppl say good things about my friends ^_^” i love u luffy #the sweetie pies to ever #idk if i should tag this as ship cuz then lusopp truther in me wants to but then again u can take this as super strong friendship too #ugh whatever im just gonna do it i can be cringe and free also i wanna navigate lusopp stuff on my own blog too so #one piece #op #min watches one piece #dressrosa #usopp #god usopp #lusopp #usolu #teehee giggle i can do what i waaanntt #me when an army of oppressed people are dying and beggijg for u to save them 🙄😮‍💨😒 #me when my BOYFRIEND has the potential to be turned into a toy by a little girl 😥😢😢😰😨😕🫤😦😧😭😨😡😡🤬 #im JOKIGNNGNG #not #ily usopp he still went back for them and that's what matters <33 also he was willing to lay his life down for them too so #ok enough

[smultronviol]

Honestly I think the most unforgivable crime comitted by the new ATLA adaptation is bringing back the fucking kataang/zutara discourse🥰

Like, I can forgive a lot, but I can't forgive the fact that my own eyes, in the year of our lord 2024, have to be subjected to takes I first saw on 2011 DeviantArt

#tbf not to poke the hornets nest but its honestly just zutara people complaining abt 'haters' and being 'bullied for their ship' #like could you guys at least double check that the 'hater' opinion ur disagreeing w has actually been expressed by anyone THIS DECADE lol #atla #natla #avatar the last airbender #zutara #kataang #|<- REALLY poking the hornets nest by maintagging these lol. but you know what. maybe i do wanna fight. just to feel something #in that case to be clear im not talking abt zutara fanart or whatever im specifically talking abt the dumb discourse #y'all might not have been in the trenches but i was there and boy was there so much DUMB SHIT from both sides #i dont even care abt either of them lol. literally babys first fandom experience and i had to learn QUICK to avoid both #of them like the fucking plague #honestly is the concept of a 'shipping war' still a thing even? #i havent really been involved in fandom for a while lol but it just feels like such an early 2010s thing #looking at these posts in the atla tag really feels like a time window back to like 2014. even the tone #like is that still a thing? #are you guys bringing back the concept of 'lemon' and 'no flaming plz' next #you really dont want to revive 2012 fandom culture guys fucking trust me

[moeblob]

I think Gepard would also probably like to pick him up by the scruff like a kitten (and throw him in jail) !

Thank you for the compliment @durasposts ;w; I have been enjoying doodling Sampo so I am glad he's been appreciated!

#honkai star rail #sampo koski #trailblazer #gepard landau #not actually meant to be ship art but whatever floats your boat in regards to them ??? #i dont really follow many people on tumblr but i do know on Another Site ive seen fanart of silly belobog boys #many a time so i assume its very popular #too each their own and the trailblazer is just there to be impressed with lifting the much taller male even taller #the way people describe being fond of a character has grown progressively more bizarre to me #and i love it so much tbh ... i like the weird ways of admitting you like a character #im so boring and say oh i like this guy and then others i want to pick him up by the scruff of his neck #or someone i dearly love telling me i wanna swing him around like miss trunchbull would #and im like you know what the oc the person said it about im like thats really fair tbh

[patrocles]

LORDS OF WINTERFELL + THEIR BASTARD SIBING - Cregan Stark & Sara Snow

The matter of what exactly happened when Prince Jacaerys Velaryon came to Winterfell is a matter only truly known to those who were there. Regardless, after the Prince’s death in 130 AC, Lord Cregan Stark raised a host of nearly twenty-thousand men to ride south to honor the pact he made with his dear friend.

He trusted no one to rule Winterfell in his absence than his elder sister, a bastard named Sara Snow. She acted as a regent for his young son and heir, Rickon, as Cregan had planned for a lengthy campaign. Despite being the formidable Wolf of the North, Sara had always been protective of her younger brother. Cregan suffered loss early in his life with the deaths of father, his lady-mother, their younger brother, and most recently his beloved wife Arra Norrey.

Like Cregan, Sara was politically apt, had a strong heart for justice, and commanded respect from all. Since wresting power from his corrupt uncle at only six-and-ten, Sara acted as an advisor for Cregan. For many years, the Wolves of the North were a small pack, but Cregan was just as dedicated to his sister as Sara was to him. After the war, when Cregan remarried to Alysanne Blackwood, they had a daughter named Sarra, likely named after his dear sister.

#a song of ice and fire #asoiafedit #asoiafgif #cregan stark #sara snow #valyrianscrolls #thenorthsource #gotasoiafsource #saw a really bad post about sara that was just full of 'sara is a bad character bc shes a mary sue' garbage #siblingsgifs #which is craaazy bc she only got like 1 line mention in all of fire and blood so WHERE is this secret sara lore pray tell? #but whatever since we're just making shit up #heres big sis sara who loves cregan and who loves her #like of course she was the stark in winterfell when he rode south #i'll just tell you now #im way more interested in both characters as people extremely removed from any incoming shipping discourse bc who cares #i wanna plan a longer series of stark lords + bastard sibling gifsets

[rubyfunkey]

landing strategy practice (shes going to push him off a cliff)

#rwby #jaune arc #ruby rose #despite everything rwby still matters to me #rubulart #i see them as best friends but if you wanna tag this as ship stuff sure whatever #crescent rose

[carlyraejepsans]

i was thinking about that ask i received the other day and how uncharacteristically upset the topic had made me when i usually just think "mh. gross!" and move on, and after mulling it over a while i realized it wasn't about the topic at all, it was the ask itself that freaked me out. i've mentioned sporadically before (for obvious reasons lol) that i used to be involved in fandom discourse when i was younger and that!! fucked me up quite a lot. between exacerbating my ocd and straight up getting cyber stalked (i almost feel guilty using that word, like i don't deserve it but. yeah that is 100% what happened to me), the topic is something I have very complex and personal opinions on but that i hate talking about in public because it still sets off my fight or flight response.

i know some people in the fandom are like "let me know if i ever rb someone who wrote/drew gross stuff" and that's entirely their choice and i respect it. but for the record, i am not one of these people. please, for the love of god, i am asking this genuinely do NOT come into my DMs about this, I don't want to know. assume I'm either living in blissful ignorance or my blacklist already covers me quite nicely & i wanna keep it that way. i vastly prefer the discomfort of stumbling into something unprepared and deciding what to do about it on my own, to the utter pit of dread i get whenever i open a message that starts with "hey just so you know-". i have blocked multiple people in the past over it. i WILL block more. be warned.

[note. this doesn't apply to people who have either hurt or behaved inappropriately with other members of the fandom, or spread bigotry and discrimination like racists and transphobes. please do let me know in those cases]

does this make sense? idk I'm kinda feverish you guys figure it out. I'm going to sleep.

#word from the wise for anyone peering into the jaws of discourse. there are only 2 types of people you can trust on their opinions on it #they are 1) people who have never heard of ship discourse like. at all. and 2) people who know too much about it #and with that i mean people who started off at one end of the discourse ricochetted to the other side and then came out #objectively refusing to associate with any of it. because they Know. that whatever issue lies at the heart of it is never gonna get resolve #with the way that discourse is conducted. and that the problems will never truly be fixed. and even then #you should take three or four of them at once from different starting and ending points and let them talk it out together first #because they all came from different point of views the others could've missed #i cannot WARN YOU ENOUGH. you do not want to be the second type. don't fall in #block who you wanna block and be kind any time you can. most people aren't inherently evil & that's a weird thing to assume about someone #and for the love if god stop fucking beefing with teenagers online #that is all you need to know about this. go have fun #i haveee so many fucking. thoughts about this topic i genuinely think i could have (and have had! seriously!) constructive discussions on i #about what would be helpful and what needs to be changed and what people get wrong. but it's always in private. because of the horrors #anyway shipping wars veteran discounts when

[sweettoothselfships]

ok wait so everyone loves posting cute screenshots of their f/os i know because so do i but So Much Love is Stored in the voice. is it not?? everyone else here is insane about their f/os’ voices too, yes? so send me a « 🎤 » and a f/o and i’ll answer with a clip/voice line/quote from them that makes me 😳🥰🥺 etc

#self ship community #f/o community #self ship meme #f/o meme #f/o ask meme #f/o ask game #selfship ask game #selfship ask meme #f/o #rb if u wanna join naturally #welcome to do with platonics or familials or whatever also of course #you don’t gotta inbox karma me but you can if u wanna

[dollypopup]

y'all can all cancel me (again) for this, but if there's even a SHRED of 'who should I pick?' from Penelope in season 3, I am tuning out SO fast because like. . .sorry not sorry, there IS no choice. Debling is some crusty OC suitor she barely even knows and Colin is a man who she has been so supposedly in love with to the point where she'd ruin her entire family's reputation to have a potential love story with him. Penelope and Colin have background, years of knowing each other, intimacy that few people in the Ton can boast of having (letters, conversations about purpose, fights and arguments and makeups) and her and Debling have. . .a dance or two at a ball because he's a rebound for Penelope's broken heart. he means nothing. he has no nuance, he has no weight to the story, he is such an afterthought to me. either I wanna see Penelope going 'you know what? I don't even LIKE this dude. he's. . .fine, but I don't care about him even a shred as much as I care about Colin' or the INSTANT Colin's like 'you know what? we should get married' if it's not an immediate 'say less, you're already my husband, try returning me without the receipt, Debling whomst?' then I don't want it!

like. . .it's just so frustrating to see all the 'I hope Debling sweeps her off her feet and she rejects Colin's proposal and she makes him work for it and and and-' nonsense from the fandom and it's always tagged and no matter how many times I block it, it just keeps popping up. I go into the Polin tag for POLIN. I don't give a SHIT about a male love interest other than Colin. Not one. Not a shred. Not an iota.

and also. . .Debling has the 'benefit' of not having depth, or character traits, or HISTORY, so peeps can project onto him however they want, but I'm calling it now, there is NOTHING he could do or be that would make me like him more than Colin. Colin will always hit different, and I will always love him more. and if Pen's not on that same page? lol bye

you want me to believe Penelope and Colin are soulmates and it's romance for her to hem and haw about how difficult a decision it is for her to marry a stranger who knows barely anything about her. . .

when Marina was out here dropping banger lines like 'You were the only man with which I could see myself being happy' and 'I do not care about any of these men, where is Colin?'? like hello??? and she wasn't even fully in love with him!!!! but we'll demonize her until the cows come home in our fandom and make her the villain in Polin's love story for DARING to get in between Polin, yet Debling, a white man, is a darling dear perfect prince for getting in between Polin? existing in our fandom solely so Penelope can be like 'lol, Colin ain't shit, let me entertain any and everyone else'?

if that's the direction it goes then, ten toes down and on my mama, she doesn't deserve Colin and she can move because I'm on my way to court him my damn self

and that's that on that

#you know what? lol it's been a bit since i've posted a controversial opinion #tagging it #polin #sorry not sorry i ship polin. . .so i wanna see. . .polin. . .and i'm getting damn sick and tired #of all the bullshit pen/oc pen/other dude theories and stories in the polin tag #and i don't want polin to lose screentime over a frankly bleh male oc #you can't change my mind #if i don't see at least marina's 'you've seen him with the little bridgertons!' level of squee and 'i only want to talk to colin' #levels of devotion then i don't fucking WANT IT!!!!! #yeah definitely try out the marriage market #realize that NO ONE has a good time on the marriage market #try to get over him w/ whomstever #but then be like 'i don't even LIKE this dude where's colin i miss him' about it!!!!! #because otherwise i am not here #i am asleep #and i am courting colin in your place pen #i'm coming for your man #anti debling #if debling has 100 haters i am one of them if he has 10 haters i'm one of them if he has 1 hater i am the hater if he has 0 haters i'm dead #it's incredibly obvious that 'pebling' is half rooted in a revenge storyline fueled by anger at Colin and his complexity #and half a projection of wanting Penelope to have 'choices' because she is a representation and manifestation of the fans themselves #and so people think an OC that can be 'perfect' for them- whoops I mean Pen (because he doesn't have any real depth or interest) #he's a cardboard cutout we can throw whatever you want onto #so we can make him 'perfect' instead of the much more meaningful storyline of pen and colin both being messy and loving each other more #and part of it is bitterness over Polin not being insta-love #which. . .if it was i wouldn't like them as much as i do #anyways y'all ain't slick #and it's fucking WEIRD to be in a fandom that's like 'i ship this couple but i hope she gets with ANYONE else' #maybe you. . .don't ship the couple?? #like. . .to the point of wanting her necklace to be from debling. . .and her wearing it everywhere??? WHAT??

[deus-and-the-machina]

the dunmeshi yuri discourse feels wild to me because it just feels like the wrong series to be doing this with. yes farcille is a juggernaut ship but like. the series is still made up of a mostly male cast and the more important side characters are also male. for a while its just marcille until izutsumi gets added and she's a teenager so no shipping with most characters for her. if we're being honest this is not a series where its a shock or an upset for there to be more m/m.

not to mention that farcille is still the most overall popular dunmeshi ship on ao3 by far, the m/m to f/f ratio seems to me that there are several m/m ships being rotated around where with f/f its mostly farcille with a couple of minor ships. the only other f/f ship ive seen any consistent content for in the fandom is namari/kiki, a little bit of izutsumi/tade, and some canary ladies.

While dunmeshi is a great series that resists a lot of anime tropes about portraying women and body types I feel like we still owe it to ourselves to be honest in that most of the central character are men who, with the exception of senshi, are pretty slim, women included (falin is fat in my HEART-). I dont really say this to critique ryoko kui, but just because I think its best to temper our expectations about what the story actually includes. you cant hang everything on "but look how well farcille is written" when, while I do love them, falin admittedly spends a good chunk of the series as a plot device more then a person. the glimpses of her self we get are really fascinating to me, and I would confidently say she's a character in her own right, but it would be disingenuous to claim she couldn't have used more screen time or depth into how she feels during all this crazy shit that's happened to her.

#basically what im getting at just beyond this subject matter is dunmeshi isnt the end all be all of diversity. I love how kui draws fat #people and I hope whatever she goes on to do she keeps drawing more of them but I also dont wanna be disingenuous and claim that it has the #greatest fat rep of all time because in the story proper its really just a couple of minor characters #and im so sick of people misrepresenting the numbers. farcille is the top ao3 ship by FAR only one other ship has over 100 fics and farcill #has 242 as of today #dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #siren says #do not be rude on this post I will just block you

[schnuffel-danny]

Jack finally starts paying closer attention to the Wisconsin ghost, who seems to have a disturbing obsession with him, and instead of coming to the (correct) conclusion that he’s trying to fucking murder him, Jack decides that this aggressively obsessive behavior can only mean one thing - the ghost has a crush on him (because ghost courting rituals have to be weird as hell, right?). Now Jack has to figure out a way to politely turn Plasmius down and tell him he has a wife and kids without putting his family in danger, because who knows what horrid things a ghost is willing to commit in the name of love...

#this isn't even written as a shipping scenario it's just pure crack #can you fucking imagine #danny phantom #yeah whatever it goes in the tag i wanna be able to find it later