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pagannatural · 1 month

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2.11 Playthings 👭👬

-episode of my life. If you only ever watch one episode of supernatural let it be this one. Creepy dolls creepy dollhouse creepy little girls a lonely Connecticut inn a desperate drunken tousle between the incest brothers. It doesn’t get any better than this.

-Dean gives Sam a hard time about suggesting a case after they’ve been looking for Ava for a month. Dean doesn’t even know Ava, but he’s spent the last month looking for her because it was important to Sam. When Sam doesn’t respond to Dean’s teasing, he backs right off. Dean is controlling and possessive but he is also respectful and considerate because he thinks the world of Sam.

-Dean says Sam’s attitude “is just way too healthy for me, I’m officially uncomfortable now” which is funny because it’s not true that Sam’s attitude is healthy and he will get drunk and misbehave about it, but it checks out that Dean is uncomfortable with healthy dynamics.

-Sam smirks at Dean’s joke in this really cute way. It shows that he still looks up to Dean, even though he wouldn’t admit it.

-the innkeeper mistakes them for a gay couple and assumes they’ll want a king sized bed and Sam says “what? No—no two singles. We’re just brothers.”

Spot the difference between these two pictures

That mighty flustered, genuinely panicky “just brothers” sounds exactly like a “we’re just friends” moment between a will they/won’t they couple and it’s so weird that he says it that way. A normal answer would be “oh this is my brother” and then everybody moves on. But this is a tv show and there’s a reason for this scene to be included in this episode. It highlights that the nature of their relationship as brothers is more layered, and this messy denial tells the viewer that there is a romantic/sexual layer.

Back in Asylum in s1, Dean was mistaken for Sam’s boss specifically to make it clear to the viewer that Dean had more authority in their dynamic at the time, which played into Sam’s anger at Dean. This is a similar way for an outsider’s interpretation of the relationship to shed light on it. Their individual reactions to the assumption that they’re a romantic couple are meaningfully different—Sam is embarrassed and nervous like he’s been caught. Dean is feeling some kind of way.

He looks guilty, like he’s doing something wrong. He played along with people thinking he and Sam were a couple in Bugs and went as far as to slap Sam’s ass and call him honey. He seems pretty comfortable with his sexuality and with people being gay in general, like the joke he made about the only real thing about him being his boobs or the time he sarcastically told a scowling male store owner that his smile really lights up a room. He’s playful, he’s not weird about it (until season 8 but that’s another post). So something else is going on here.

His attitude toward this kind of mistake has changed since season 1. A lot has happened, but I think the point at which things shifted for Dean was that moment in Croatoan when he decided that he was going to stay with and protect Sam when they thought he was infected. The episode was a major turning point for Dean. That’s what pushed him to finally tell Sam what John said, and it was the first time Dean really thought Sam was going to die. It also paralleled the scene from Provenance in which Sam almost puts his feelings for Dean into words. Back then, Dean was able to take control of the situation to avoid Sam’s feelings and his own. In Croatoan, he’s the one forced to consider his feelings and why he would live and die and kill for Sam, and Sam alone. It’s no longer possible for him to ignore the feelings between them. He knows or suspects strongly that Sam has feelings for him, and now he can’t deny that he does too. It’s one of his major conflicts moving forward.

-Dean asks Sam why people always assume they’re gay, saying it’s a “troubling question,” and Sam says “you are kind of butch. They probably think you’re overcompensating” which Dean takes in as though it’s an equally troubling revelation. They look like a couple, and therefore they look queer, from the outside: Sam with his shy demeanor, soft voice, longish hair, deference to Dean in most situations (Dean goes to the front desk, Sam hangs back a little, his body mostly facing Dean), and just general feminine-coding throughout the show. Dean with his cropped hair, gravelly voice, overconfidence, and constant womanizing.

Queer people have this shared experience of never feeling like they’re doing masculinity or femininity correctly, and knowing or realizing that other people can tell they don’t fit in, but not really being able to name what they’re doing wrong. Sam is too feminine and Dean is too masculine and when they’re together they read as a gay couple.

Croatoan drew attention to this too, but again, it’s not really about coding them as lgbt, it’s about coding them as queer and incestuous in a gothic, monstrous way. They are Other and it’s in their blood just like the monsters they hunt.

-Dean has Sam pretend to love dolls, to further underscore his feminine role in their relationship for the viewer. It would be so cute if Sam really did love dolls as a kid.

-Dean tells Sam not to look at porn in their room, apropos of nothing.

-someone else dies. Shot of Sam, damsel, gazing out the window of his tower as the body is carried out and Dean talks to the innkeeper.

Dean goes into their room, where Sam is sitting facing away from the open door in a way that feels foreboding, like something is wrong. It’s similar to the shot of Rose a little later in the episode, with her in her chair facing away from the door.

Sam is drunk because he couldn’t save the guy who died, and “the more people I save the more I can change.” He’s afraid of becoming corrupted and at least some part of him believes that he will (that he already is) and needs to make up for it.

Sam says Dean has to watch out for him “and if I ever turn into something that I’m not you have to kill me.” He argues that John said Dean has to and Dean says “Yeah well dad’s an ass” which is a very bold thing for Dean to say about the dead father he once idolized. He obeyed John to keep Sam safe, and he’s finally letting himself be angry with John.

Sam says even now everyone around him dies. He says “please, Dean, you’re the only one who can do it. Promise.”

So Sam is drunk and in crisis over believing that he will become evil, in this episode that makes sure to emphasize the sexual undertones in his relationship with his brother, in an interaction that looks charged and erotic. He’s begging his brother to kill him rather than let him fall, holding onto Dean’s shirt and pulling him down toward him, his eyes locked on Dean’s.

Dean says “Don’t ask that of me” but Sam gives him the puppiest tear-filled eyes so Dean lies, he says “I promise.” At this point Sam is sitting on his bed and Dean is leaning over him, Sam grasping his shirt to keep him close and keep his attention.

Sam looks at Dean’s lips, says “thank you,” inhales, and grabs Dean’s face in both his hands, his thumb near the corner of Dean’s lip. It looks like he’s trying to kiss Dean. The fact that he inhaled rather than exhaled also just makes it feel more like a lead-up to something rather than a conclusion.

Dean pushes Sam away, closing his eyes as if conflicted, Sam still holding onto his face. It’s a little aggressive. Dean has to shove Sam off of him forcefully.

Dean pushes Sam onto his back on the bed, where he watches him turn to his stomach and nestle into the mattress, arching his lower back with his face in the pillow. Dean puts a hand over his mouth and traces his lips, his eyes dragging over Sam’s body.

Just describing the basic mechanics of this scene makes its eroticism clear. Dean touches his lips after Sam looks at them in a gesture loaded with restraint and tension. It’s another of those scenes that usually happen between romantic leads: the woman gets drunk and confesses something and/or needs to be taken care of and the man treats her respectfully but not so respectfully that he isn’t a little seduced. Dean could have let Sam kiss him (or do whatever he was going to do), but he has so many reasons not to: fear of hurting him, of Sam leaving him, of betraying his role as his savior and protector. Dean’s self worth comes from loving Sam, so if he loves Sam Wrong he feels worthless.

And that’s to say nothing of the fact that Sam is begging Dean to take ultimate control over his body by deciding whether he lives, and deciding whether he’s good or bad. His fears are soothed by the idea that whatever happens he can be Dean’s, he can belong to his brother. He’s okay with dying only if it’s by Dean’s hand. His whole life he’s felt something was wrong with him, so if it’s true and Dean confirms it, he is the only one who can kill it. The corruption in Sam (in both of them) has already been heavily linked to blood and their relationship and now Sam is verbalizing it—No! We’re just brothers. Why does everyone assume we’re gay? Sam holding Dean’s face, drunk, saying there is something wrong with me and it’s your responsibility. Please, you’re the only one who can do it.

-Sam is throwing up the next morning. Dean says something gross about a sandwich in an ashtray that makes Sam gag and say “I hate you” and Dean says “I know you do.” The way Dean says this sounds like he really thinks Sam hates him, which came up in Asylum as well. After last night, this has to have something to do with Sam’s feelings for him and the fact that Sam thinks Dean is the only one who should kill him. He thinks it’s tied to Sam hating him and his self-hatred for loving Sam wrong.

-Maggie tells Tyler “I can’t leave this haunted house and you can’t leave me.” Sam and Dean can’t leave the haunted house that is their life because they can’t leave each other.

-Maggie tells Rose “you’d do that for me?” which Sam has basically said to Dean, and “you kept me away for so long I thought you didn’t love me any more” which fits both of them at different times. Rose is the little sister choosing to die so that Maggie doesn’t have to spend eternity alone, and saving Tyler. It’s a creepy, haunting ending that parallels Sam and Dean. The sisters play together forever in a haunted house and the brothers drive off to hunt together out of the haunted houses and motels and backroads they were raised in.

#wincest #samdean #supernatural #spn meta #sam and dean #spn 2x11 #playthings

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bananamarshmallowz · 4 months

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I'm here to talk about Destiel...

The internet is a very funny place.

If you're in need of a good laugh, go to your favorite series, show, films what have you and ask what are you unpopular opinions with _said show_.

I have watched dozens of shows and always think I might be the only one, post that and see what happens.

I am a shipper but I normally don't talk or boast about what/who I ship, it's not relevant and it can be weird. I don't ship actors/real humans, that's crossing lines. Characters however, yes. Anyway, I have to bring up this one. One comment said "Destiel shouldn't have happened." Okay, I get that, people can get weird about it. Then they go on to say how every shipper claws and digs for stuff that isn't there.

And again, I'm not saying some people don't dig but not all gay/LGBTQ+ representation is completely shown in media. Mentioned maybe here and there, sure. But there's endless cis-straight-relationship romance movies, romance themes and what have you. Some series make really bad portrayals and give gay people a bad rap because they're the only representation. And don't get me wrong, sometimes we do dig and claw because we feel what they portray, or at least we think so. But sometimes we don't need to dig.

That same thread added the random siren or even the policeman from yellow fever had more chemistry than Dean and Cas ever have. - Him looking at the soldier's ass in Time After Time while walking in the store. Yes, those were weird scenes, why were they even shown? Great question, I don't know I'm just here. - And as for they have no chemistry... They won best chemistry award for TV... It doesn't get better than that.

This is more of a rant than I want but this is certainly one of my favorite shows. And I feel the need to say what's on my mind because I know I can't afford therapy, so this is the next best thing.

Oh yeah before I start this, I have read numerous comments accusing all the actors of horrendous things... - Firstly, they all have kids, and wives and love their kids so much. I don't think they would do anything to jeopardize that. So stop making up messed up shit. - Secondly, I don't want to believe other people make other people uncomfortable for fun, but some people do. But considering that they acted for more than 8 years together, I'm pretty sure working with people that are cool for that long, they all had a strong bond. And all the times that Jensen looks uncomfortable whenever Misha goes into or talks about Destiel, it's because technically they're not even allowed to say anything about the show regarding shipping characters because anything could've been true, it could've not been. If every actor were able to spoil their movie, we'd be out of movies but we aren't. And Jensen is a rather shy individual, funny enough. At the beginning of Supernatural he was 27, and Jared was 23. When Misha joined when he was 34. They were and still are wholesome and great people. Regardless, All of them would pull pranks and stuff on the show, they're friends, not some messed up whatever someone said, I'm blown away that people would even imply some things. You can look up any video of everyone being close with one another from hugs to dancing, to singing to whatever. So don't say "read the room" when they're just being themselves, I shift a lot when in public, does that mean I'm constantly uncomfortable? No. - THIRDLY, they were all lowkey scared of certain parts of supernatural, in 2017 they did an interview with Entertainment Weekly {this one} and said what the scariest episodes or concepts were at the time for them. Jared's was changelings, shapeshifters, demons possessing people, things that could be real but possibly something posing as someone but something's off. Jensen's was people doing really messed up things and that it was the most realistic thing that could actually happen. Humans being psycho. And vintage dolls, lmao, same. And Misha said that everything could give him nightmares. He's so soft, any of it could give him nightmares. These guys are human. Not some terrible against religion people, they play on a show. Pure human. Just like everyone else.

ANYWAY, I think we all know the infamous eye sex scenes LMAO... if you haven't heard of them... {here's 10 minutes of them staring at each other} and that's not even all the seasons

They always look each other up and down and just stare at each other.

Above, Dean says "Cas, we talked about this. Personal space." and then Cas backs off. He doesn't know why, he just knows it makes Dean uncomfortable, so to make him more comfortable, he takes a few steps back. But Cas isn't aware of how complicated humans are. Personal space are just words, angels shouldn't care what humans have to say. They're so primal and they need more than just basic shelter and foods, they need the whole pyramid of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. He doesn't understand this until he goes through it himself, but we're getting slightly off topic. Sure, them continuing to stare could be just a funny little thing at the start... no. It still happens up to the last episodes.

This is the musical episode, Fanfiction, Season 10, Episode 5. Destiel, Samstiel and the most dreaded Sam/Dean are mentioned... They're brothers. As someone with siblings... gross.

"You can't spell subtext without S-E-X." Then Jensen gave this look to the camera, I think this is on behalf of many of the people on the show.

Below, they end a scene after talking but it's about 15 seconds of them just staring at each other then it ends. Personally, I'm not a big fan of eye contact, and try to make at least 5 or maybe 2 seconds of contact in between interacting with someone, anything more than 10 is past uncomfortable... I don't stare at anyone this long. Legit the scene is so long lmao

I don't remember the context on this but I just don't like eye contact. Both their eyes are gorgeous but I don't stare like this, especially with any of my siblings. When they have a hard time I hug them if they want a hug, talk to them, but I don't make eye contact like that.

I have never looked at my friends like this, not my best friends, certainly not my siblings. Someone I had a crush on, possibly.

Next, they are going in as Texas Rangers and Dean explains how to get Cas into character. "Yeah. Look, just act like you're from Tombstone, okay?" "The city?" "With Kurt Russell? I made you watch it." "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The one with the guns and tuberculosis." [in a deep cowboy voice] "I'm your Huckleberry." [gulps] "Yeah, exactly.-"

I don't have anything other than I like that scene and how Cas says, "I'm your Huckleberry" :D

(SPOILERS AHEAD Whoops lol)

When Cas dies Dean tries to pray to God even though he swore off praying to God. One of the lines is "We've lost everything." Mary's gone, correct but everyone else is alive, except Cas. They still had the Bunker, Baby, Jack. Cas and Mary died (she fell through and there was no way to know she was alive.) But considering that Sam is still alive, the guy Dean has fought tooth and nail to save all these years, is standing by him, ready to fight what may come. But Cas is dead... Dean obliterates his hand from punching on a bathroom door. It's frankly the most punches he's made in a single scene I think and even then, God doesn't answer him so he begins to mourn. It creeps in that his friend is gone.

When Cas is being burned, at first it peers to Jack who sees the man who is supposed to be his father, not blood father but someone who promised to look out for him, someone he doesn't even know, he feels the loss but he's just been born and he never really met Cas.

Then we roll to Sam, he's lost a dear friend and is sad. He's wanting to cry and fidget and be sad.

THEN we roll to Dean. His face is drained of all emotion. He has lost his best friend. His dear companion and looks like he lost it all despite his brother being right next to him. He can't even move.

Now I would be sad if one of my brothers died but sadly I don't have that much of a connection with them as Dean and Cas have. And thankfully I haven't yet experienced one of my brothers pass on.

But I have lost a few lovers, and that... That is the face I have felt. When everything else feels irrelevant. You don't care about anything. You can't care about anything. You are numb.

And this all brings us to the finale.

Death is on her way, has them by their hearts, well Dean's in fact. They run/slowly walk over to Basement Storage Room 7B and Cas wards the room, slowing down Death on the other side.

This is the exact moment before he loses Cas for the last time. (I'm copying from the script on the Supernatural wiki, don't hate me, I watched it over and over too, and I've shortened Cas's monologue because I don't want to relive that heartbreak again lmao) But basically Cas realizes this is it, this is the happiest he has been. Everyone was alive and well, he has Dean alone at last. The last exchange they had was this: "You changed me, Dean." "Why does this sound like a goodbye? "Because it is." - "I love you."

"Don't do this, Cas." - "Cas..." "Goodbye, Dean." "What?"

Cas pushes Dean out of the way and gets taken by the Empty.

He has to process all these years of interactions with this awkward little man with sensible shoes in less than five minutes and it all crumbles.

Castiel is gone. And he's not coming back.

Sam keeps trying to call Dean but he's just getting Dean's voicemail and Dean isn't answering. He simply can't.

A few episodes later, Dean fucking dies. Just how he said he would, to a monster, like any other job. It felt rushed and I didn't like it.

But how they ended it could've been so much worse.

Dean makes it to heaven, expecting just memory lane, but Bobby's there and says Jack remade heaven new, everyone's together in heaven where they belong. He offers him a beer and tells him how different heaven is and how it's so much better.

Dean's sold, but it's missing something.

This is directly after Bobby tells Dean that Cas helped Jack rebuild heaven.

After that, he takes a drive as he waits out Sam's life. He meets Sam on the bridge and that's the end.

For years, Dean didn't have an obvious love interest, here and there a fling maybe but nothing romantic. All the soft scenes were pretty much between him and Cas.

Their bond isn't brotherly, it's very best friend-ish but lovers can be friends too.

And that's my review on Destiel and why it's a thing it's 4 am and I haven't slept well the past two days so what to do other than write about destiel

ok bye :]

#supernatural #destiel #dean winchester #sam winchester #castiel #jensen ackles #misha collins #jared padalecki #rant/idk #fuck it #im so tired oml

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vanitasmagoria · 3 months

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ok i'm eight episodes past it but playthings won't leave me tf alone. so here's a little queer reading of sam and dean's reactions to the antiquer allegations.

so clearly dean's awkward, shifty-eyed, fake-laughy reaction is very closet case coded. but sam? he spent absolutely zero seconds thinking about that reply. just deadpanned it instantaneously. which implies that this is something he's taken notice of before, contemplated it, and came to this particular conclusion himself. like this is how he's profiled dean in his head. and the delivery of it is so nonchalant. dean acts like he's being made fun of, but sam seems to just be making a statement, matter-of-factly. this is not his bitchy face or his teasing voice.

so with all this in mind, let's go back to the scene at the reception:

here, dean is visibly uncomfortable (as is susan, of course), and sam – while also a little rattled from having just been offered a king-sized bed to share with his brother – quickly jumps in and changes the subject. we can still see dean reeling for a moment after that (and he was fixating on it enough to bring it up again later). but doesn't this diffusing the situation seem very protective of sam, looking back? like he's shouldering dean's facework by very quickly pivoting off the offending subject (a bit of goffman for context)

dean's not as straight-passing as he thought he was, and sam is trying to protect his (fragile) ego/masculinity/feelings.

in conclusion: dean has some ISSUES with his (most likely queer) sexuality. meanwhile sam is not only comfortable with his own sexuality (whatever it may be – these scenes could just as well read as a straight man wholly unbothered by gay allegations or a queer man wholly unbothered by being clocked as queer – really the only thing that seems to get under sam's skin is the brotherfuckery) but he is also more comfortable with dean's sexuality than dean is.

#2.11 playthings #samdean #wincest #spn meta #vanitas spn rewatch

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quietwingsinthesky · 8 months

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Do you agree w/ the fandom interpretation that john was so homophobic he’d have beaten up and abandoned his sons for being gay? Cause sure, he grew up in the 60s as a mechanic and then later became a marine during the vietnam war, but i also don’t think homophobia would’ve necessarily been a priority for him? Like obviously he’s not gonna be the full on supportive and politically correct loving dad, but i think that the fandom’s general opinion on that is pretty warped by people’s relationships w/ their own fathers

I do think this is one place where people tend to project. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that; working out our issues through fiction is healthy and good! I don’t think there’s any canon proof of it beyond, as you said, him being a marine from the sixties who would probably not be super knowledgeable about being queer, maybe a little apprehensive about it from what he’s absorbed through the culture he grew up in. I think we’d be correct to point out that if Sam or Dean were queer, he might be uncomfortable about it, he might try to avoid the topic, which is in of itself hurtful.

The thing about me is: I fully disagree that John was ever physically abusive towards his kids. At most, I will bend this interpretation to say he was probably too harsh on them while teaching them to fight and that maybe he and Sam have traded blows before when arguments got too loud (by blows, I mean, probably shoving with the yelling, you know, assertion of physical space. It seems realistic to me that two people who have been using violence for a long time to protect themselves, and for John, his family, down to the hierarchal power he’s put in place of him -> Dean -> Sam, would resort to it when things got too heated.)

(I also think that sometimes fandom’s insistence that John had to be physically abusive can sometimes get a little insulting because it perpetuates the idea that emotional abuse does less harm and can be overlooked and for flattening out John’s character in a way the show very literally pointed to and said He Did Not Do That. This is the entire point of Max’s episode in s1, for the show to point out that their experiences of abuse were different. How well it was handled is arguable, but I take it as clear evidence that when we talk about John’s relationship with his sons, the focus should be on the emotional abuse, the codependency he developed with Dean from a very young age, his neglect of them both, his attempts to suppress Sam, etc. And I appreciate this about the show, because you can’t talk about any of those things without also talking about why they’re happening, why John thinks this is necessary, how he loves his sons and isolates them to protect them and ends up doing more and more damage that will never leave them through their entire lives.

I’m sure there’s depictions of John being physically abusive that handle it with the same amount of nuance that the show handles him being emotionally abusive in canon. I have not seen them, unfortunately. I’ve seen John being physically abusive 90% of the time just being used as shorthand for him being Bad and Evil and A Terrible Father. Which does not interest me. So I will remain here as a staunch defender of He Would Not Fucking Hit His Kids.)

Sorry, okay, we got off topic there this is about gay shit.

The point of All Of That was for me to be able to say, John’s not going to react to his sons being queer by beating them. He’s definitely not going to abandon them. Hello? John Winchester? Abandon his kids? John Winchester, the guy who has been keeping them in warded up motel rooms their whole lives and moving them across the country out of paranoia the demon who killed his wife could find them if they say anywhere too long? John Winchester who only trusted one or two people to ever look after his sons when he went on a hunting trip too long? We think that John would ditch his kid because they’re queer???

Like I said, I think the most realistic reaction for John, (if not just flat out him going ‘that’s fine, now load this gun while I time you because that’s more important for me to know that you can do’, because. He kind of has bigger priorities to worry about here. Like werewolves.) would be discomfort and pushing it out of his view, ignoring it. Which would still fucking hurt! And would have horrible effects on Sam and Dean both, would encourage Dean to repress it if he thinks his dad is ashamed of him, would push Sam away if he trusts John with this fact about himself and can’t be accepted easily.

I just think this is truer to John’s character.

Anyway. If nothing else here persuades anyone reading that John Would Not Fucking Do That, well. He thought his kid was demonspawn, remember? He thought Sam was corrupted and might not be able to be saved. I don’t think you can get more clear queercoding than that, and you know what John’s very telling response was to that information, to finding out something a thousand times more terrifying than Sam being gay ever could be? To refuse to look at it. To insist to himself that whatever Hell wanted with Sam, he wouldn’t let it happen. To tell Dean to take care of it, because even when John is certain that his son might literally become a demon, he could never bring himself to pull the trigger on him. Because he loves Sam.

So like. He literally would not do anything for the much smaller realization that Sam is gay. His son has demon blood that might turn him super evil, and John still wouldn’t hurt him.

I guess what I’m trying to say here is, I try to keep the fact that John loved his sons at the forefront of my mind when I’m writing stuff about him, because I think if you let that slide out of your head, you can very easily make him much worse, much more flat than he was in canon. The real picture of him is just an extremely flawed man in a terrible situation who fucks up his kids as much as he protects them.

And also he wouldn’t care about them being gay because JohnAzazel real and true and they fucked sloppy in that hospital basement-

#this was so many words holy shit I did not need to ramble that much #but I did <3 #this is what u get when u send me an ask I have too many thoughts #john winchester #ask #spn #again reiterating that like. it is not a bad thing to work out ur issues through fiction.#hell knows I do. and hell knows I used to be a lot less kind to John BECAUSE daddy issues. so I get it. it’s literally fine. it’s fandom.#u are free to do whatever so long as you aren’t a dick to other people about the character they like that you dont #(…I am going to side eye you if you feel the need to insist john had to be physically abusive because he was just That Bad to his kids.#but that’s more like. ‘I think you might have some unexamined biases about the nuances of abuse.’ more than anything.)#tw abuse #re: John abandoning his kids:#I know Bad Boys(?) has John leaving dean at the boy’s home. uh. personally?#I think that’s just bad writing. I think they misunderstood John’s particular brand of weird relationship to dean.#I don’t tend to count that instance as canon or at least not in the way the show presented it.#but ur mileage obv may vary. it’s just my opinion that that was a later seasons fumble.

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lab-trash · 8 months

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Okay, so just... hear me out, okay?

So, I'm just now getting around to watching the first episodes with Mary back. And I'm on the third episode with her, and all I'm thinking is...

Imagine her being into Castiel. Now, I'm not sure if this is ever a thing but just the way they're interacting is so.... a straight women checking out a gay man?

And maybe I'm totally in the wrong about this, I could be so off. I'm not good with people, I haven't seen much of Mary, I might be being really stupid.

But either way, that'd make a pretty fucking funny fic.

Like, imagine Mary going to Dean being like 'so what do you think of castiel...' And Dean's like 'oh, he's great, my best friend.'

And Mary has to be like 'well, I'm thinking of maybe asking him out.' And Dean spits out his beer, chokes on hie pie, whatever.

And he has to sit through this conversation of 'I know it might make you uncomfortable, but I think it's time i get back out there,' Yada yada yada.

And she has like no idea that her getting back out there is not even close to the root of his discomfort.

#please write this #im begging #destiel #supernatural #supernatural prompt #supernatural idea #mary winchester #dean winchester #castiel #idk how youd work sabriel in there but if you could thatd be epic #seriously though #someone please write this

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blacknidstang · 5 months

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Once in a while i go back to rewatch some early episodes and Roadkill always ALWAYS makes me cry a little. It's a whole little bittersweet short horror film. Beautiful writing, the way it's tied to the themes of loss and grief like the entirety of the season that perfectly connects the boys dealing with John's death to ahbl and Dean's deal.

And beside all the wonderful writing and structure of the episode, it's one of those times the samdean parallels between married couple hits on a whole different level bc it doesnt feel like a little uncomfortable gay incest joke. The way the woman, Molly, desperately says "do you know what was the last thing i told him?? I called him a jerk!! What if that's the last thing i'll ever tell him" and truly such peculiar choice of word. I don't think it's any accident and i don't think it's any joke either. It's terribly painful because in retrospect it's a setup for Sam & Dean facing the prospect of losing each other. And on the other hand i'd dare to say a bit about how Sam's final moments with John went on as they argued. This makes it all the more poignant that Sam tells Molly "what are you gonna say to him? That you love him? That you're sorry? Molly he already knows that" well Sam who are you talking about right now.

But beside Molly and David, one thing that i think on some level connects to Sam & Dean are actually Greely & his wife. When Sam & Molly look at Greely's life and recognize how loving he was once, Sam clearly sees himself in the monster that the vengeful ghost has become, talking about how something he could not control happened to him. Yeah, not so subtle with comparatives. But that's not all, the one peculiar detail for me was always Greely's wife hanging herself after his death. "She couldn't live without him." It's peculiar in a way that it's completely and utterly irrelevant to the plot of the story, the wife could've simply died of old age. It just didn't matter. But it had to be there. It had to be there because there's one part of a duo who becomes a monster and the other lover who cannot live without him. We see all of these throughout the season. It's repeated motif of lovers and loss. And then the seasons hits us with ahbl, with Sam's death and the sort of anguish and desperation we see ing Dean that is not even comparable to every mourning lover coming before him. I'm not saying Greely and his wife are an exact direct samdean parallel in this episode specifically but i think all of these were put into season 2 to prepare us for when we see Dean not being able to live without Sam.

#spn #sam&dean #spn 2.16

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sweetcitrusboi · 1 year

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I was suppose to post this a few days ago while Jib was happening but I forgot to post so I’m doing it anyways because brainrot is still going strong,,,

With everything that happened at Jibcon, I have so much shit too ‘ramble on’ about

((yes it was intended)).

First off Jensen’s fcking energy at this con is so awesome I love it so much. Like he seems really really happy and relaxed. His panel with Misha looks so fun and they were putting the most energy out there. And y’all something has to be in the Jibcon air because the things Jensen has openly been saying has me thinkingggg.

And when I start thinking, I’m going to have a lot too talk about. All good things ofc I’m only speaking on things I observed from post. Praying I actually go to a con soon,,, But their lovey dovey behavior was so out there, I don’t think it matters whether you went to Jib or not, you can clearly see it. Like Misha sitting on the stage floor looking up at Jensen so reverently while he’s singing has had me clutching my chest every time I look at that picture. They seem really really reallllyyy relaxed. And I’m so happy for them.

And then this man, fcking Jensen has them both singing a destiel inspired song on stage while laughing and looking at each other and idk wtf to say honestly. Like idk if it’s the constant wheel shots they’re taking but they just are so happy.

Like Jensen has always been the most comfortable on Jenmish panels something I’ve noticed for a while now because he acts totally different on J2 panels and solo panels because different crowds and I just think he’s uncomfortable. J*red constantly talks over his questions and we know what type of people are in the j2 crowd unfortunately. On solo panels he just looks scrambled and is semi relaxed but answers questions silly. And Jenmish panels he’s always the most relaxed. Misha lets him talk for his own questions and they play around and they just simply enjoy themselves, and he always seemed more open too talking about destiel, and Dean as a character on Jenmish panels. But this con, they just seem very open.

The way he was acting this con, I wouldn’t be surprised if this man drops the tapes soon. He just kept dropping hints this whole con. From the way he talked about destiel, and Dean, and how he feels about the show. I honestly think he was going all out as a personal fuck you to J*red’s really shitty take on Dean’s death. Idk why tf that man keeps answering questions about Dean or destiel but for someone who “read the script as a book” he seriously doesn’t understand his co-stars character. Y’all can complain about Jensen not watching episodes all you want but at least he knows what he wants for Dean.

Like seriously wtf is this take ??

I already need to say this now but dni if you’re a “the finale was good “ truther I don’t want to hear it.

^Seriously please stop giving this man destiel/Dean questions. I’m not saying the actors can’t answer questions about other characters but after his last fuck up, when he compared gay relationships to incest I thought y’all would have learned your lessons by now???

Anyways—

Speaking of takes, Jensen’s lil destiel conversations has got me thinking. And I wanna talk about this in another post but I think he’s doing something behind scenes involving destiel because he just seemed so happy about breaking down their dynamic and bringing up the confession scene

I’m happy for him, honestly. It took him a long time to get comfortable when answering questions about destiel and I don’t blame him. The fandom can be very demanding and some of y’all deliberately went out of y’all’s way to harass and accuse this man of being homophobic multiple times. So him swerving questions made a lot sense to me. Even though his love for Dean and Cas has shown a lot through the years. I’m just so glad that he’s comfortable now and he wants to talk more openly with us.

I have so much more to talk about but I feel I should start breaking some of it up honestly. I don’t often do discussions like this on tumblr, I keep a large part of them to myself or usually when someone speaks to me about it, or I see a particularly terrible fcking take and I have to read somebody down about it.

But I’m getting more active on tumblr and I wanted to do my own breakdown of spn which I wanted to do before posting this but the stuff happened at Jib put that on hold because I had to brainrot, but I’ll get back to it. I’m mostly doing all this for fun.

But this was it, I just wanted to brainrot bc it’s been in my brain for almost a week and I should have gushed about them way sooner. Now on to watching con vids on YouTube bc I have to precariously live through other fans *sobs* . I will be at a con one day tho!!

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tiktaalic · 2 years

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do you have any fave jack depictions in fic/headcanons OR do you have any hilarious takes on jack to share?

wtf gay little jack is a classic a CLASSIC i think its what i followed ezra for its so. hes gay and hes little and hes jack. i think peak jack is skrog jack. hey bestie! hey bestie. yeah. exactly. MY favorite jack headcanon is that in his like... memory box? keepsake box? he has an entire stack of movie tickets that are from times he asked a slightly uncomfortable question and dean hemmed and hawed and said hey if you go get your coat we can see a movie before your dad gets home. and jack of course goes okay!

situations i love to put jack in:

jack accidentally sends himself to the past. usually in my mind this is the gap between s5 and 6 where dean is doing his death march towards normality and is so fucking depressed and isnt on speaking terms with cas and has a "son" jack's never heard of and a "wife" jack's NEVER heard of.

Jack's Very Special Birthday Episode where he makes everyone universe hop into riverdale for a week and he spends all his time 50/50 either hanging out with core four and being immediately beloved or coming home and breathlessly relaying to cas every single thing he's done with core four becaus e hes so excited.

french mistake verse. just because its never not fun to put guys from supernatural in french mistake verse

this is not a take or a situation or anything but i'm fond of how hes like. i have a post somewhere about what its like to do a high school group project with ben edlund when you're both autistic and weird. jack very similar to that. very very similar

#ask #anonymous #spnwatch

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schizochroal · 1 year

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My gf has been having me watch supernatural with her for the past month (she's never had a Tumblr which idk is kinda funny to me) and I can definitely see why it spawned a fanbase (there is some sloppy writing and very obvious plot holes but it's generally well written for a show from it's time and has compelling characters and arcs, and it's also pleasantly sacrilegious and anti-cop so far) but also like. I can see why the fanbase it spawned was so fucking weird and messed up. They are very clearly aware of the fact that they write the main brothers more like a couple by mid way through season one, and by season 4-5 they seem to embrace and lean into this angle. They start to use the word "brother" the way the 90s sailor moon dub used the word "cousin" even when writing partnerships that aren't the leads. They go from occasionally making gay jokes to just using constant homoerotic subtext every time Sam and Dean talk about their relationship, and make Castiel seem like Dean's new fling. It's bizarre to see an American network tv show lean so heavily into an incest angle , especially gay incest, and everytime they acknowledge their awareness of it makes it seem even stranger. At the same time, they literally start writing their fanbase into the show , and mock them for seeing the very obvious subtext. Season 4 and 5 have numerous jokes aimed at "creepy and weird supernatural fans that ship together Sam and Dean" while at the same time constantly writing Sam and Dean like a couple. One episode even has cosplayers that play Sam and Dean being the first confirmed gay characters to live through an episode (they are a couple) and has Dean being very obviously uncomfortable with them being a couple, despite the fact that he has spent much of the last few episodes using extremely romantically charged language to describe the relationship he has between him and his brother. As someone that is not exactly particularly a fan of incestous romance (blegh) in order to watch the show I have to just pretend they aren't actually brothers. But like I also am bothered way more by the fact that the show seems to be hypocritically mocking its own fans for seeing what is obviously there than the actual incest itself. What a strange way to write a show, what a strange way to interact with your fanbase. I honestly struggle to see why they would write it this way? like maybe at some point it became a self-aware method of cultivating a fanbase , but in the first couple of seasons it was pretty obvious that they were desperately trying to appeal to a presumed straight male audience , and yet the incestous homoeroticism (and the self awareness about it ) was still obviously present.

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autisticandroids · 2 years

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Any thoughts on Sam's sexuality? I always think it's an interesting comparison next to Dean's, since Sam seems more comfortable and doesn't act like it's as grave as Dean does. Also with how Sam responds to Dean's misogny/projection, like yeah Sam doesn't really rebuke him but he doesn't feel the need to engage with it either. He just seems a lot more natural compared to Dean performing

so in terms of sam + sexuality, i tend to think the most interesting aspect of sam's relationship with sex/attraction/desire etc is not whether or not he is queer. i enjoy queer sam, and one of my favorite sam sexuality concepts is like. bi sam who sort of casually discovers his bisexuality in his forties. like he's not pressed about it, but it just never occurred to him to wonder, and then he sort of falls into bed with some guy and he's like oh. oh! but i also enjoy gay sam on occasion ("what if ruby was a man and they didn't sleep together they just got super homoerotic and then sam fucked men when he was soulless and was like oh?" is an awesome hypothetical here) as well as knowingly bi sam. but i also don't mind straight sam. i'm sam sexuality agnostic.

i think the most interesting aspects of his sexuality are unrelated to queerness and twofold:

the first is that sam is like. a million bottles of ink have been spilled about how sam is constantly sort of drawing into himself physically and trying to be less threatening. and i tend to read this as very gendered. like i tend to read sam as pretty uncomfortable in his role as a man, not because he doesn't enjoy being a man, but because he feels like people (especially women) find him threatening. like i see one of sam's projects as being like. trying to forge a masculinity that is still masculine without having the harmful toxicity of the men around him. but that's only when he's more confident in himself. most of the time he's kind of afraid of his own maleness because he fears hurting other people. wait i forgot why i was typing this but it's a good piece of sam meta so i'll leave it up. whatever.

the second aspect is: sam likes bad girls(/boys), and he is deeply insecure and self hating about it. "the werther project" is one of my favorite like. late season one off episodes, because sam gets hit with the mindwhammy that makes you hallucinate and what is it that he hallucinates? rowena. mothering him sexily. and this is season ten, where she's still basically a villain. sam is so freaked out by the (pretty incontrovertible) fact that he wants her that he ends up, in the next episode, slapping handcuffs on the real rowena and yelling at her. and this like very much harkens back to ruby. sam really enjoys sleeping with the enemy. like, dean frequently sleeps with monsters, but only ones who are definitely on his side, and that's like. a prerequisite. sam's not quite so discerning, i like to think he likes the danger. but he's also deeply uncomfortable with that aspect of himself, especially post-ruby.

#spn #asks #anonymous

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bowie-boy · 3 years

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NOTES: For the first eleven episodes of Community I wasn’t keeping track of trans Jeff moments but I will when I rewatch. I also starred the key trans Jeff episodes (imo of course)

Without further ado...

Every transcoded Jeff Winger moment (I can remember) because he’s a trans man:

1x12*

getting punched in the face is his “male rite of passage” according to Pierce

1x14

“I’ve never been someone’s dirty little secret” the fact that he is now?? Transcoded

“I’m afraid of things getting official. If you say it you might later have to UNsay it.” Jeff was definitely terrified of coming out and realizing he was faking it huh

1x17*

Jeff is uncomfortable wearing short shorts in public and wants to wear his own clothes, he gets very uncomfortable when questioned about it

Abed says Jeff is 30% the trans guy from Boys Don’t Cry

Once again! Gets very defensive when accused of being panties

Coping with hypermasculinity is so trans

1x20

“What is THIS Jeff?” “My chest????” “What are you packing in these pants” “guys-“ this entire exchange is trans

1x25

Jeff being so done with tr*nny dance

That moment of him and Troy with the trans cookie in the same frame >>>

2x01

“An old drinking buddy who may or may not have had a sex change” makes Jeff cut Abed off and ask questions, I think he got nervous

2x03*

Blood test at a physical! Testosterone

2x06

Jeff is very protective over his suit

2x07

Jeff and Troy laughing about Y chromosomes because they don’t have them 😌 (yes Troy is trans too)

2x08

very proud of his chest, doesn’t want to cover it up at all

Jeff is very quiet during the period conversation

(I’m actually writing a fic about Jeff’s coming out that takes place during this episode)

2x10*

Jeff looking so confused and annoyed when Pierce said “I broke my legs not my gender”

Jeff giving Troy a manhood experience for his birthday!!!

2x12

all the women enter the same bathroom as Jeff

2x15

Pierce reading a supportive speech in case Britta is LGBTQ+ and telling Jeff to “wait for the one” he has for him

2x17

Jeff uses nipple guards when running

2x18*

“Abed...can I tell you something I’ve never told anyone else?”

Jeff had to wear a girl’s costume for Halloween

“Everyone kept saying what a pretty little girl. After a while, I stopped correcting them. What was the point?” Wow TRANS

2x21

“You disqualified yourself from this conversation [about women] the second you decided to grow a wang” “I regret nothing”

3x04

Jeff keeps his toiletries in a safe

3x05

Jeff being a vampire is transcoded I don’t elaborate

3x06* (this is just a great Jeff ep in general)

Threw a gay party and it was great

His dad fucking DISOWNED HIM?????

3x09*

“foosball was just masculine enough to get by without throwing it catching”

Jeff had a pony tail as a kid

“I changed my clothes, my hair, my personality”

“Foosball is how I defined myself as a man”

Jeff wearing a hoodie at the end of the episode?????

3x12*

Jeff “has bad posture and sometimes looks like he has boobs” according to Britta, a statement which made him uncomfortable and deflated his self esteem

Jeff really wants the award for most handsome young man

3x13-14

Flannel

3x17

“A man’s got to have a code. I can only assume a woman has an equivalent to that, like a codette or something” okay trans

3x19

Jeff really doesn’t like being separated from his jackets

4x01

I just think Jeff leading a dance with another man who is in drag is very trans coded okay

4x02

Jeff is so obsessed with his body that he must be a trans man proud of his transition

4x05*

“Jeff’s at the point in his life where he needs a strong father figure to come out to” is this not canon trans man

“You seem like a self made man.” “I mean, I kind of had to be.”

The entire scar thing

Jeff’s stepbrother or half brother or whatever being too “soft” for his father to like?? But Jeff who is hypermasc still not being enough????? Okay canon trans

4x07*

Jeff is really enjoying his manly barber shave

4x10

everyone bought Jeff a hoodie for Christmas

4x11

Jeff is really scared of commitment to things regarding permanent choices or his own identity, maybe he struggled with this for his transition when he was younger

5x04

Jeff “would rather look at himself naked than the people he sleeps with” because he’s proud of his transition

5x07

Jeff and Duncan did a boys’ night! Maybe Duncan knew him before he transitioned and it made Jeff uncomfy until now

5x08

“my penis needs no enlargement” proud of his transition af

5x11*

Jeff is/was obsessed with GI Joe which was like Thee boys’ cartoon

He can’t visualize his future which is trans

They bought him an it’s a boy mug 🥺

6x04

Jeff is really supportive of the dean’s sexuality, literally trans

Like Frankie is basically canonically a lesbian or at least queercoded

The dean is canonically queer

Why else would Jeff be there if not for the fact that he’s trans

6x05

Jeff getting mad when someone says he hits like a girl and taking his shirt off

6x06

Jeff is stressed about his emails being leaked —> he got outed?

6x08

Jeff is really proud of his scenes in the movie, he wants the world to see him fully transitioned and how manly he is

6x10

Jeff hoodie trans

He won’t shut up about cars because he wants to seem big and manly

Also in general his halloween costumes are all hypermasc. I think the study group really helped Jeff feel better about his gender identity and really made him feel safe. Thanks for reading!

#jack’s posts #community #jeff winger #trans jeff winger #trans jeff #long post

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mittensmorgul · 3 years

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So, Signs that 15x20 isn't real: El Sol beer; warm, saturated lighting; Dean's choice of clothes. Signs the writers were silenced: cut-out-tongue-vampire-thing. Sign it's about sexual repression: Vampires! Sign it's all about the gay: Dean was nailed from behind. Anything else to add to that list of symbols? Because this looks like the writers winking SOS at us in a kidnapper's video.

oh gosh... I keep meaning to rewatch the finale and make a full list of it all, because this is tip of the iceberg stuff. But I just... heck I just don’t want to watch it again :’D

That rewatch is on the agenda, and I’m currently watching 15.09 on the eternal loop. According to the TNT schedule, they’re showing 15.20 on Tuesday, looping directly back to the pilot immediately afterward. So... if I do decide to watch that (and I haven’t decided yet), that’s... gonna be some wild whiplash...

But anyway, back to the question!

You have a pretty good list going there...

I’ll add these things that made the episode feel like not-a-finale:

-no Road So Far segment, or even any sort of “important moments from the last 15 years that brought us to this point” sort of montage/retrospective of their lives

-no Carry On Wayward Son at the beginning, but TWO versions of it back to back at the end

And these things that were just general wtf moments for me:

-Sam? cooking breakfast? since when does Sam make breakfast, ever? that’s Dean’s thing

-Dean, with a dog? since when has Dean ever wanted a dog? That’s Sam’s thing

-Dean makes his bed, and it looks messier when he’s done than before he started (this is... not Dean-like... I actually went back and checked previous shots of his room)

-they never, not once in the episode, act like they have even one (1) single friend or any sort of goal or direction in life, which is weird...

-apparently they’d been unable to find a hunt, making it seem like the supernatural world had been quiet (for a moment I thought maybe monsters were no longer a problem in a post-Chuck world), until they stumbled on a hunt out of nowhere after choosing to go to a pie festival... as if the moment they chose to do something to move on and just have fun, suddenly there was work for them to do and they immediately abandoned everything to hunt these mystery monsters from John’s journal, which turned out to be a trap for them (specifically for them? considering the rando s1 vampire seemed to have lured them there?)

-The fact Dean recognized this vampire he never even interacted with and somehow magically knew her name, despite it never having been stated in canon and, again, Dean never having interacted with her outside of watching her escape with the vampire who actually DID bear them a grudge from 1.20...

-the weird lingering close up shot of the rebar during the fight scene

-the invocation of “destiny” and “don’t have a choice” as they went into a freaking pie festival... this hits bad right now because I’m rewatching 15.09 in the background as I type this, and it was almost word for word what the Dean in Chuck’s vision of the future said to Sam as they resigned themselves to go off on their final hunt (which was vampires btw), which they lost because in the next scene Sam and Dean have become vampires and are both killed... so like... this was Chuck’s story. The trappings might’ve been different, but it was still fundamentally the same... Cas locked away in a terrible place (ma’lak box in Chuck’s story, Empty in Dabb’s), Dean resigned to his fate because of a vampire hunt gone bad.

-then the pie festival itself... Dean’s got a huge tray with half a dozen different varieties he’s excited to try (purchased from Dabb’s Pies...), is eager to taste them all (like... metaphorically trying out different “apple pie life” ending scenarios, because he’s finally free to explore and maybe he actually wants the pecan pie life...), but before he can even taste the first bite, Sam... chooses one and smashes it in Dean’s face.

-even weirder, Dean never once in the episode says Cas’s name, or seemed even once to give a dang about Cas at all... and handwaved it when Sam mentioned Cas and Jack. It had been like... days, on screen (if they’d intended for more time to have passed, they would’ve indicated that on screen, and they did not... they showed us MAYBE three days passing since the events of 15.19). So like... did Dean have a personality transplant or what. Sam says Cas’s name in the ep, Bobby says it in Heaven. Dean... never does. Which is weird, considering how many times he’s said Cas in canon over the years, to the point it’s literally become memes...

-jumping around a bit here, but why Masked Vampires? Why had John failed to figure out they were vampires originally? Because he believed vampires were extinct? because he hadn’t been told they existed at all yet when he’d confronted them in 1986? Was John suddenly just A Bad Hunter after years of canon reinforcing that he was actually a really good hunter?

-and why THIS WEIRD CONGLOMORATION OF JOHN-RELATED CASE NONSENSE? From his journal to the murder clowns to rando vampire from their first vamp hunt? It’s like the perfect storm of erasing the last 15 years just to “bring it back to the start” to end it all like it could’ve had this been s1 still.

-speaking of John, and the El Sol in Heaven... WHY would Bobby hand Dean “John’s Beer” in Heaven? Especially since Dean expressed the fact that he didn’t even like it? Like... why wouldn’t he have been handed a beer he actually ENJOYED in Paradise? Why force a John Beer on him when he could literally have anything he wanted?

-and why was Heaven for Dean, in a place where he could literally have anything he wanted, go anywhere and do anything, why was he just driving through the woods along back roads? After years of talking about how he wanted to go “toes in the sand,” take a vacation, go fishing, or even finally get to eat a piece of pie? Or like ANYTHING he’d talked about wanting to do over the years that he never had a chance to... but apparently the thing he’d arguably spent the most time during his life doing is the only thing he wanted to do now that every possibility was open to him? Yeah, no that’s stupid...

-Tree (the final shot of 15.04 with bobblehead Sam and Dean by the tree like they didn’t have a thought of their own, Chuck’s plastic figurines dancing on his orders, very much like where they randomly parked and had the “vamp mime” conversation)

-Dean casually resorting to the threat of torture after YEARS of the show condemning this choice. Dean gratuitously being “a killer” when his acceptance of the fact that that’s not who he was in the previous episode was literally the thing that defeated Chuck... like... this was entirely stupid...

-just... the pacing of the episode was so weirdly wonky, with random cuts and no sense of time passing anywhere, nor interconnectedness between scenes, and the weirdly uncomfortable interminable death scene. Like, it looked like the death scene of a soap opera heroine. It was upsetting when Dean hit the spike and realized what had happened, but then he just... lingered... dangling on the hook for Sam’s benefit. Like Dean was nothing more than set decoration like a framed portrait for Sam to hang up and walk away from. Which is weird... and stupid... Dabb knows how to do pacing, and it’s like he forgot everything he ever knew about writing to force this “good way to die” trope, as if the previous 15 years of the show hadn’t been spent denouncing (and Dean finally overcoming) this mindset of “I always knew I’d go down swinging” or whatever. WHY. IT WAS STUPID.

-Wig

there’s probably more, but I’m tired and have reached my daily limit for the wtf of this episode >.>

Anyone else, please feel free to add more.

#spn 15.20 #Anonymous

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deanwasalwaysbi · 3 years

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I've gotta say, I find the concept of Bedlund trying to Ben-Hur Jensen absolutely hysterical. I'm just imagining Jensen getting a script and being like "Ben?? What's this? Is this gay? This seems gay????" and Ben just soothing him like a frightened horse.

Hahaha - Look it wouldn't be the first time. What is this verb we're working with? Okay. Strap in everyone. The Multi-Oscar-winning 1959 movie 'Ben Hur' had a bunch of gay subtext. The writer, the director, and the second lead actor all knew that Charlton Heston's character, Ben Hur, was gay. However, one person didn't find out until the 1990s: Charlton Heston. The consensus on set was "Don’t tell Charlton, because he’ll freak out." and when Heston found out in the ninties, freak out was exactly what he did. (x) [the movie may have gotten a reference from Misha back in season 6 (x)]

Whether this happened with Jensen on SPN depends on two things.

Was the character of Dean intentionally written as Bi and, if so, at what point did that become true?

Did anyone tell Jensen? Did he figure it out? if so, when?

I personally DO believe at this point, I really do, that Bedlund - Ben Hur'd Jensen. I think it was part of the writers room but not all of it, until it was. (Which RN I believe finally happened under Dabb.) I think Jensen wasn't in on it, until he was. So for me? I think he really was in the dark at one point. But at what point that changed? Probably only he can answer that question. and RN? He ain't talking.

In the meantime we can only look at things Jensen has said on the subject - Like this unbearably ambiguous GIF set from @nikadd. Was this tongue in cheek? Legitimate ignorance? You're killing me, Jensen. That cheeky lil smile, Jensen. Nvm - I'm going to kill you instead. It's for my own survival. No hard feelings right? You understand.

UH OH HERE COMES A CUT TO HIDE A LONG DERANGED POST...

We can look at the text for number 1 - and I do that uh - a lot - see the blog name #Dean Was Always Bi

For number 2 we can look over some points when we got clues from what Jensen thought was going on [regardless of whether they make sense based on his jacting or directorial choices I guess] and get left wondering whether at any point he felt pressured to lie for his career, for self protection, or to protect the narrative from the network:

2010 - 'We're missing the gay angel' (x) (Season 5 gag reel) (x) “Sorry man, not what the show’s about.” Jared: One of the good and bads about playing the straight [non-comedic] character on the show… Jensen: What wait? I’ve been playing him so wrong

2012 / S8 - Trenchcoat - Jensen talking about how sometimes they change the lines because they're way too gay. Calls Cas a third brother

2012 - "What's Destiel?" Ben Edlund: That’s some weird shit. Jensen: Is this something that you created, Ben? Ben: You don’t want any part of that.

“Don’t ruin it for everyone now” “I still don’t know what the question was. I’m going to pretend I don’t know what the question was.”

2013 @ JIB, re Dean’s reaction to Aaron’s flirting in the season 8 episode Everybody Hates Hitler, (x)

“And the scene wasn’t written to be that kind of - I mean - It was written to be awkward. Ben Edlund wrote the - my favorite line in that scene was ‘carry on . citizen’ that was - I almost couldn’t say that with a straight face I was laughing so hard. But it was - you know - it was comedy. It was a comedic moment in the show and fortunately Dean gets a lot of the comedic moments in the show and it was just, you know, Ben was poking fun at the fact that - you know, how can we make this very kind of manly, heterosexual guy uncomfortable - uh -you know, or or have him back on his heels and throw him off his game a little bit.”

The thing is - Bedlund and Phil Sgriccia made very clear on the commentary track that THEY saw this scene as a 'romantic comedy kind of fluster' "This potential for love in all places."

Ben Edlund calling the writer’s room a boy’s club in 2013 (x)

Misha Collins telling Destiel fans they aren’t Crazy in 2013 after some executives said they were (x).

2014 Jensen says he was glad there wasn’t much Dean and Cas in season 9 - HA Hah HAH (x)

“I think the whole Cas and Dean thing has gotten out of hand” “I don’t think there’s anything secret to their relationship even though a lot of people wish there was” REMINDER - that season we got the nightstands acknowledgement and “play him like a jilted lover” and the “he dumped me James” cut and -

I certainly know that Misha and I don’t play that. SIGH. they Ben Hur'd Jensen.

2014 - the fan fiction joke - 10.05

“I didn’t have a positive reaction, The first time in I think 200 scripts I went and sat down in the showrunners office and said, ‘What in god’s name are you doing?! Why? I need to understand why this is happening.’” “[Carver] gave very eloquent answers and did a great job of explaining why we were doing what we were doing, I guess I had been aware of this ‘fan fiction’ for a while and I felt like maybe if I ignored it, it would eventually go away. When I read it in the script that is what I do for a living and is my work—I’m very protective of these characters and the story and I think we have a right to be—I wasn’t angry. I just wanted to understand why and what was the message we were ultimately sending with this script and story. By the end of it, I felt good and it gave me all the confidence I needed. It was better than I could have ever hoped.”

But then there's Jensen in 2015 talking about all of Dean’s bromances. (x) [gifs at the top] Could go either way - starting to figure it out? or No?

What had changed if anything? the entire Crowely season 10 story line? This was July 2015 - the same day as the SDCC 2015 panel where Misha talked about Destiel (x @ 13) Carver and Dabb were there -

By this time Jensen and Misha were nominated for a teen choice award for best chemistry against various tv couples (and one ensemble cast, but the award nomination did NOT include Jared) .... Misha and Jensen would go on to WIN this award one month after the panel.

At the Panel Rob and Rich ask the question: “You two have branded yourselves as TV’s greatest team since, ... idk who.... Ernie and Bert so.” [Misha says to Jensen & Jared, half not on the microphone: “I really didn’t expect them to throw us under the bus.”] “are we going to see that continue? Is the Castiel Dean relationship still aflutter and still growing as we move into season 11?” Jeremy Carver: “Ish.” [mocking from panel ensues] “Yes. Of course. I mean Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s no doubt.”

Jensen Directs 11x03 and the choreo mimics Goodbye stranger (x)

2016 - Jensen: Dean could have a huntress, but you’d kill her.

Jan 2017 Con the infamous - no hedge - harsh - “Destiel doesn’t exist.” (x)

I would hope that if he knew he wouldn’t have been so harsh with it. So by that point either he still didn’t know - OR - to him ‘Destiel’ was specifically about internet porn/sex and not like - the potential for feelings / a relationship. It makes me think about something Misha had actually said, around 2013, “It’s called ‘Destiel’ and it’s about the romantic interludes between Dean and Castiel.” (x)

2017 - jib8 Jensen called Dean a lover of the ladies

May 2017 - After filming the end of season 12:

2018 - Misha confirms he and Jensen have talked about Destiel (x) - also 2018: The Bisexual Dean essay "? No." (Oh god was this really this recent?! I can't deal with this.)

Well. SOMETHING happened in 2019. cuz here it comes

2019 - "Dean has no taste, clearly." 2019 - 'So, tell us just a little bit about what you're most excited to tackle with your character this final season.' "Cas. Just like a full football form tackle."

Look at this face he gave Dean when Cas told him he loved him and tell me he wasn't playing into it here. You can't. (x)

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deanchaos · 3 years

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oh the ways i’d make c*w and certain homophobes uncomfortable if given 15 minutes of open mic at a panel. there were certain choices made while building the dean winchester character they can’t possibly expect people not to identify as lgbtqia+. in that spirit here are some things i’d really like to hear heterosexual explanations for:

top 5 unexplainably [redacted] dean moments

#1 rhonda hurley and her pink satiny panties. i mean do you really think a cis het womanizer macho man (who they want us to think dean is) would try panties on because a girl asked him to and actually admit he liked it in any occasion? a man with a straight mindset would rather being torn apart by rabid wolves instead of saying that out loud

#2 the friend boner. no further comments

#3 not for nothing but the last person who looked at me like that… i got laid (??????????? i mean how do you even take this straight

#4 free to be you and me - entire fucking episode (highlights: thelma and louise; bert and ernie; not gonna die a virgin on my watch - dude is just unhinged in this one)

#5 the “turned out to be a gay thing”. literal raw gay/bi panic. his mind went ???!!!?? to a point he struggled to get out of the bar without bumping into shit

honestly the list goes on i just get really pissed off about the amount of gaslighting we were exposed to for over 10 years

#bi dean #spn #giulia.txt #deancas #dean winchester #i spiraled

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nancylou444 · 2 years

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Call it curiosity, but I wanted to know:

Yep, not going to call Ms Jenkins a HELLER, but.....

Fridging The Women In Sam’s Life

Missing the point there Ms Jenkins. The show is letting you know right off the bat that IT’S NOT ABOUT ROMANCE.

Toxic Masculinity

Toxic masculinity presents itself in many ways on Supernatural. The most prevalent is the affection that Sam and Dean have towards each other. Sam aptly states that he would die for Dean but that doesn’t mean that they show genuine affection for each other. They would rather throw punches than admit they love one another.

Any time one of them is about to reach out with authentic emotion, the other one shuts it down. This begins with the first episode when Dean distances himself from Sam saying, “no chick flick moments.”

Hmm, looks more like Ms Jenkins has a problem with wincest. 🤨

The Male Gaze

There are many things about Dean that have not aged well, including seeing women as objects.

Hmm, Ms Jenkins has a problem with STRAIGHT Dean. 🤨

Lack Of Diversity

For a show that travels across America and sees all walks of life, Sam and Dean only seem to encounter one type of person. Typically the people that they help are heteronormative, cis, white victims.

🤨

CGI

Can’t that be said about any show/movie from the early 2000′s?

Female Archetypes

Women are a big problem in Supernatural. One of these issues is watering down female characters. They are simply not as developed as their male counterparts. Men rarely need to be saved as much as women and this puts Supernatural in the uncomfortable position of shoving women into two categories.

Women are either meant to be saved or they’re evil. Meg was one of the only recurring female characters in season 1 and is slotted in the unabashedly evil category. If they don’t fit into these categories, they’re usually killed off immediately. Even though Supernatural season 1 is one of the best, the show struggles with writing women convincingly.

Meg is evil because SHE’S A DEMON. Do we need to list all the women that lived to see the end of the show?

Hitchhiking

Hitchhiking is a relic of an old age. Many people in the '60s and '70s made use of hitching for rides along the highway. However, this mode of transport has fast fallen out of fashion due to violence on the road.

🤣 Looks like Ms Jenkins was desperate to get ten things.

Sexual Orientation

Not only is heteronormativity viewed as the default on Supernatural, but the show also takes it a step further. If anyone is implied to be gay on the show, it is viewed as a joke. A recurring joke in “Bugs” is when Dean and Sam go undercover at an open house. The realtors assume that Sam and Dean are gay and not brothers and Dean is offended when it is implied that he's gay.

This joke occurs in other episodes as well. Every time it is implied that Dean and Sam are not straight, it is played as a joke or used in a derogatory sense.

I don’t remember Dean being ‘offended’. It’s the default on the show because it’s the default IN REAL LIFE.

Child Abuse

Sam and Dean encounter bad parents all around and put a stop to it if they can. But the one aspect of child abuse that is not addressed is the abuse of Sam and Dean themselves. Dean hero-worships their father John, happy to be raised in a world where he sacrificed his childhood to hunt demons.

Sam is less fanatical about John, but he still doesn’t address the toxic way that he and his brother were raised. John was neglectful and cruel to his children, making him one of the most hated heroes on Supernatural. He often left them on their own for days at a time and he even blames Dean for a Striga attacking Sam when they were children. Dean had the responsibilities of an adult and John blamed him for wanting to be a kid.

🤨

Casual Hatred Of Women

One of the most infamous aspects of Supernatural is the treatment of women and it is not just how they are written or objectified. There is one glaring issue that remains for the rest of the show. Though this applies more to Dean than it does to Sam, there is a significant word that they seem to attribute to women.

Whenever a woman offends them in some way, they call them derogatory names. These terms are used casually in season 1 and beyond. Dean’s derogatory reference to women happens constantly and is especially obvious in light of how women are not respected on the show.

It’s 2021, almost 2022, and if you are offended by the word BITCH to the point where you can’t even type it, the problem is more YOU than the show.

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Ms Jenkins also considers Sam Winchester an overrated character.

The stench of heller is all around her.

#john haters not welcome #sam haters not welcome #dean haters not welcome

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