#basically elias and jon's relationship the whole series

[not-the-archivist]

Jon: Okay, help me please! Elias: Got two words for you. Jon: I bet they won't be helpful. Elias: Your problem. Jon: I was right

#ok but this actually happened though #incorrect tma #basically elias and jon's relationship the whole series #tma #the magnus archives #The magnus archives is a podcast distributed by Rusty Quill #sleepyposting

[thezolblade]

So, for the Heart of the Disaster series, I was wondering how far the following fics will delve into nonconsensual territory. Will things stay mostly in the realm of dubious consent or no? Also, if you don't mind, could you list what kind of kinks/squicks might feature? Really excited to see where this goes

Cool, it varies by route, so I'll put this behind a read more for mature content / plot spoilers / length:

Reconciliation:

The dubcon gets lighter, as Jon accidentally compels Martin into talking about how scary and offputting he's found the night so far (and how his fantasies were of the sort where they kill the monster and then kiss and live happily ever after). Jon reacts badly, and Martin realises he's scared of losing him and manages to negotiate the bare minimum boundaries of 'no violence; stop touching me if I tell you to stop; you don't fire me and I won't leave'.

There's still verbal abuse, destruction of property, and the coercion of what would happen if they had a messy breakup, but Martin basically feels he has enough solid ground to deal with that, and insists on only doing things he can enjoy or tolerate in the bedroom. The kinks lean more towards manhandling and light slapping, insults, maybe nice outfits, travel and semi-public sex, photography, etc. Martin also enjoys music, bad dancing, and comfort food.

Anchors: they work towards a healthier relationship that Martin wants to commit to long-term.

Domestic purgatory: they slip into a domain about constant repressed fear, guilt and yearning, unable to tell whether it even makes sense to feel uneasy all the time when they're trying to do things that they're telling themselves they enjoy. (Canon-typically for season 1 - 4 statements, there's some unreality and temporary/recurring death, and the implication that they might stay trapped forever, but if they ever managed to anchor their emotions then it's still technically possible that they could slip back into the real world.)

Escape:

Jon stays about as abusive as in the first fic, for a while, with better days and worse days. Martin tries to believe that once he knows what Jon wants from a relationship, he can steel himself for any of it without being caught off guard again, and he enjoys some activities, but gets pushed into agreeing to things that upset him too.

Martin manages to get some help from Tim and Sasha, and eventually goes to live with Tim and tries to break up with Jon.

Content warnings that may be squicks: Martin's neck is visibly bruised after the choking. The whole Archives team argues over the obvious abuse, while Martin tries to claim it's a consensual relationship, because he's worried that if Jon gets fired, the next head archivist might not shelter him from Prentiss. Tim casually touches Martin's arm while asking to talk to them separately, and Jon reacts by punching Tim and getting possessive of Martin. Sasha and Tim go to Elias. There's an intervention where Jon's warned that he'll be suspended for any further violence at work (an empty threat), and he and Martin are asked to attend couple's counseling. Everyone's unhappy with this outcome.

Re-orbit: after Martin leaves, Jon dwells on the things he said, and eventually apologises. They missed each other despite their awful issues, and they're stressed out by the escalating spookiness, so they get back together and promise to do better this time.

Everyone out: Major character death for Jon, and the others escape the Institute. Stalking and escalating violence along the way.

Reckoning: After Martin goes to stay with Tim, Jon stalks them, and the violence escalates. They realise they can't stay away from the Institute for long without getting sick. Jon gets hold of a gun and threatens them when they return. Tim fights back, and Jon ends up in hospital. While the others are panicking about what to do, Jon heals inhumanly fast. The next time Jon corners them, he compels Tim into giving a statement about Danny, breaks his leg while he's talking, threatens to kill him if he interferes again, and orders Martin to come back home. By that point, Martin's terrified, and he goes with Jon, desperately trying to figure out how to keep anyone from getting killed now that it's all-out war.

The overall Escape route doesn't include any Tim/Martin, and Martin would be too worried about Jon finding out to agree to anything. But if anyone wants Tim/Martin I might write that as a separate 'what if'. Also maybe an extra version where Jon noncons Tim once things have broken down to the point of death threats.

Subjugation:

Jon stays about as abusive as in the first fic, and Martin doesn't accept any help from anyone else.

Jon sometimes pushes for kinks involving painplay, even when he knows that Martin isn't enjoying himself, and sometimes has fun with gentler stuff, partly using it to 'make it up to' Martin and make the relationship feel more legitimate.

The more violent kinks take it to the heavier side of dubcon sometimes. Martin resolves to cooperate and not get himself into trouble in the heat of the moment. But if Jon wants to try something that he thinks might make Martin feel physically overwhelmed, he'll get him to agree to being tied up and gagged first, so that he can't flail around or say 'no' partway through. There are times when Martin would ask Jon to indulge him with a break if he weren't gagged, but he can't, so he ends up breaking down again, then pretending he's okay.

Sometimes Martin will say no, and Jon will keep him talking until he has something he can see as a flimsy excuse to carry on anyway, even if Martin didn't actually explicitly change his mind. Martin will think of that as 'I didn't say yes' and 'I'm still not stopping him', and agree aloud with however Jon frames it afterwards. So, the overlap of noncon and dubcon.

Spring thaw: Jon gradually mellows, in a partial parallel of his canon character arc. He realises that Martin's been getting depressed, and he misses the way he used to speak his mind and act more present. Once he can admit to himself that it's his own fault, he tries to treat Martin better, but it doesn't help, because Martin's used to being pampered sometimes without it solving anything. Eventually, Jon books Martin in for a spa trip on his own, and tells him that some breathing space might help him clear his head, and he'd like to talk about how he can do better afterwards. While he's at the spa, Martin starts to recover, thinks about how much Jon has changed over time, and decides he wants to be hopeful and stay together.

Forsaken moors: Martin gets depressed, slips into a Lonely domain, and decides he belongs there. Eventually, Jon finds a way to follow him there, and complains that everything's been going wrong; their friends are dead, and he's being hunted. He asks Martin to come back to reality, even though he wouldn't like it, because he was his only relief. Martin refuses to leave. Jon wanders the domain indefinitely, still insisting that he's not leaving on his own.

Pretty much any of these routes could get additional 'what if' continuations or alternate endings if inspiration hits. (I've got ideas for a couple of routes following Reckoning, though they're not as fully formed, and they're plot twists leading towards relatively good ends, so I might need to come up with more bad ends to keep the darkfic sandbox aspect of the series... Well, there are options.)

If there are kinks that might make a fun smutfic, but don't end up fitting into the plotfic, then I might add them as standalone work 'missing scenes' from various points in the timelines.

Topics that may show up in multiple routes:

Other kinks that might be included: tattooing, collaring, recreational drugs.

Jon has a pregnancy kink here, but it won't come up in every route, as I don't want to retread the same ground too much.

In a relatively good path, he'll acknowledge that it'd be ridiculous to risk pregnancy in a rocky new relationship while they're in extreme danger.

In a bad path, he'll impulsively decide that if it happens, they can make it work, he's got savings and they can find stability with a few months' warning, so he tells Martin that if it takes, they're keeping it. If Martin's in a position to ask for help from Sasha he'll try to get on contraceptives, but that might not work forever. If there's any actual pregnancy, it'll be in a 'things get worse then better' route, as I wouldn't want to write a kid being brought into the worst bad end scenarios.

On the topic of Martin being trans: he got on testosterone at puberty and is flat chested, doesn't want any surgical options, has no remaining physical dysphoria, and won't be misgendered. (That's what I think I can write comfortably about a gender I don't share, though I've no objection to other people writing other things for catharsis etc.)

Jon's demi, and it will probably come up that Martin's the second person he's ever been sexually attracted to, and he never got together with his first crush. He's had casual sex with people he wasn't attracted to, and felt neutral about it in an 'eh' way. (Georgie was his first crush, and in this AU, he wasn't stable enough for her standards. Their friendship ended badly.)

If the not!them comes up, I'll probably go with not!Rosie and Sasha lives.

Might bring in Sasha/Melanie as a side ship in routes that bring the team into the plot, so that Melanie can still show up. (After they got talking about haunted pubs, they went out for drinks, and started venting about their career trouble, etc.)

For paths where they get away from the Institute, I'll probably kill Jonah offscreen.The apocalypse is a big squick, so I won’t be writing a successful ritual.

More warnings may come up, I'll tag each work as I go along, and you can ask if there's anything else you're wondering about.

#heart of the disaster #tma thoughts #rozzlynn's fanfic

[jackoshadows]

The ASoIaF fandom can be so frustrating sometimes.

It’s okay to admit that one doesn’t like this or that character. There’s nothing wrong in disliking a character.

I am pretty open on my blog about my indifference towards or dislike for Sansa because of her stans. I don’t make disclaimers about how much I love the character before proceeding to criticize Sansa. I am not a Sansa stan and that’s okay. My blog is a place for me to jot down my thoughts and celebrate characters, books and shows I do like. If you love Sansa as a character, block me, don’t follow me etc.

What’s obnoxiously annoying are the folks who claim to love all the characters the same and then give their ‘unbiased’ opinions which are held up as canon facts because they came from neutral book reader experts. To hell with that nonsense.

These posts reek of hypocrisy and double standards. It often tears down some characters while subtly propping up others - and it’s gobbled up by the wider fandom as unbiased interpretation of the text.

One example is pushing forth the notion that calling Arya pretty (Something that both her father and brother tell her she is in the books) is wrong, it’s sexualizing her, it’s okay for Arya to be ugly, she’s canonically not pretty because Cat/Sansa said so and no other interpretation is allowed etc. And then the same person who says all this celebrates Sansa’s beauty and ships her with a 27 year old man who falls in lust with Sansa.

Or when they say that the Arya-Lyanna (and Sansa/Lyanna parallels, because it’s always important to mention Sansa with respect to Lyanna even if said person claims to not care about Lyanna as a character) parallels are overrated and not important and they don’t care about Robert’s Rebellion characters but on their blogs there’s all these posts, fanarts and meta about Elia Martell - a Robert’s Rebellion character.

A so called book expert would note that GRRM has several characters outright compare Arya to Lyanna or mistake Lyanna for Arya in the books while Sansa has no such comparison. But no, the unbiased book expert thinks that the Arya-Lyanna and Sansa-Lyanna parallels are equivalent and are both overrated.That post just annoyed me excessively into writing this long ass rant post.

Why are these neutral, unbiased folks so interested in stripping away from Arya’s story?

In the books Jeyne Poole is masquerading as Arya Stark - but that story is only Jeyne’s, has nothing to do with Arya or Arya’s importance to the North. 

Arya is a strong warg, Nymeria and her wolf pack are a ‘Chekov’s wolf pack’ that GRRM has hung on the wall  -  Our expert opinion is that Direwolves are not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Arya is pretty - why needlessly call Arya pretty, it adds nothing to Arya’s story and is all about sexualizing a child.

Arya-Lyanna parallels - why do we need these parallels, Arya is distinct and interesting without them.

These aspects are all important parts of the character’s story. There are so many very well written essays exploring these concepts with respect to Arya’s journey of self discovery in the books, the narrative significance of her parallels to Lyanna, her bond with Nymeria and her warging talents. For those who are interested, here are two bloggers who actually like Arya and have written about her character and character arc.

https://donewithwoodenteeth.tumblr.com/meta-masterlist

https://ashotofjac.tumblr.com/tagged/arya-stark

Some of these same people will rush to condemn any reading of the books that does not have Sansa wielding power at the end as being ‘Sansa hate’. But they will have no issues to undermine and devalue Arya’s actual book story, the relationships she has, the parallels she has, the skillsets she has, her appearance, her importance to the current story happening in the North.

There is a whole ass plot currently in the books of Northerners rallying for Arya Stark and preparing for battle against the Boltons for Arya Stark. But that’s not important because it’s actually Jeyne Poole and Arya’s story is about sailing off west of westeros.  But hey, Sansa will definitely go North and hold power and that’s like 100% happening because we are the unbiased book experts and we say it is so.

Or when all else fails - Arya is a Mary Sue, she’s a fantasy character, she’s a ‘strong female character’ because she fights with a sword, people like her because she’s a tomboy who fights. Sansa is realistic, Sansa is complex - but here are all the essays that basically transfer Arya’s complexity and story to Sansa - because it fits more with their fave, because these aspects would fit better with the traditionally feminine character even though they never tire of talking about how GRRM is deconstructing tropes. Because the trope deconstruction is only applied to Arya, Jon and Dany. Never Sansa.

And honestly, why are these people reading a high fantasy series if they hate fantasy and fantasy characters so much? We love Sansa because she’s so non-magical! Then go read non-fiction books. They also twist Jon, Arya and Dany into ‘fantasy’ characters - despite these characters going through some very real and human experiences. What’s fantasy about Arya’s experiences in war torn Westeros, Jon dealing with bigotry at the wall, Dany trying to rebuild Meereen, while dealing with famine, disease and insurgency?

Or how Jon and Dany getting any kind of happy ending or becoming rulers would be so boring, sweet, predictable, conforming to tropes, a happy ending etc. But Sansa getting love, romance, going home, becoming the Stark in Winterfell, getting her fairy tale ending - that’s totally what GRRM is going to do! No trope deconstruction there!  In may ways, Benioff and Weiss’ ending is not all that surprising -  Mad Queen Dany, Jon remaining a bastard with the freefolk, Sansa having power as a leader - are all popular theories among bnfs in the fandom. D&D wanting to wind up the show quickly with easily found fan theories is not that much of a stretch.

ASoIaF reddit is equally frustrating. Instead of Sansa stan bnfs on tumblr who pretend to like Arya and Dany while subtly undermining their story and importance, on Asoiaf reddit it’s Stannis stans who dislike Jon and Dany because these characters present a challenge to Stannis. The mere suggestion that Jon may play a role in the battle against Ramsay sends them into frothing at the mouth rage. They hate Jon, Jon is a Gary Sue because he dared advice Stannis - the greatest general ever - on Northern military strategy. Never mind that Jon grew up in the North and learned from Ned, how dare Jon Snow know more than Stannis! Unacceptable!

And I love Stannis Baratheon. I want Stannis to crush and defeat the Boltons. But unlike reddit dudebros, I can see that he is a secondary character, a tragic character who is most probably going to perish and Jon takes over because Jon Snow is a central protagonist in the story.

I feel it’s the same with Sansa. IMO, GRRM clearly doesn’t see Sansa in the same way as he does Arya, Jon, Dany, Tyrion and Bran. Whenever he is asked questions about the books, book plots, long term arcs, endings, age gaps etc it’s these characters he often brings up and references. It’s these characters who are important to him.

And that’s why there’s a lot of undermining and undervaluing of these character’s and their stories, them being described as fantasy characters, tropes, Mary Sues and Gary Sues, ableist rhetoric about Tyrion and Bran to undermine them.

I am damned certain that if it was Sansa who had all the parallels to Lyanna, or if she was the warg, or Jeyne Poole was impersonating her, this would all be ‘VERY IMPORTANT’ and on all the gifsets and essays. But she isn’t. So fandom bnfs are reduced to talking about how these aspects are not all that important anyway.

It’s like how this quote - ‘You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts’ turns up on gifsets every other day on the Arya tag but this quote - ‘Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier of Arya had been a bastard, like her half brother Jon. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered’ very rarely does and will not get reblogged when it does.

Or when Sansa sees Joffrey trying to kill Arya and sides with Joffrey or when Sansa throws Arya under the bus and tells the Lannisters that it’s Arya who is the traitor - just sisters being sisters y’all!

It’s all about maintaining a certain narrative about Sansa - and when others point out her actual relationship with Arya in the books, we are accused of hating and wanting Sansa dead and how we should be criticizing Tywin and the Mountain instead. This is nonsensical whataboutism and ignores that people talk about  these aspects of the books because sometimes bullying, getting mocked for one’s appearance, abuse and neglect from parental figures etc. can resonate with certain readers unlike getting one’s head smashed in by Frankenstein.

At the end of the day, I wish these people would be honest about the characters they like and relate to. We are all biased. That’s why our opinions and interpretations are subjective. There’s nothing wrong in saying, hey, I like Sansa more than Arya or Dany, I relate to her character more.

I relate to Jon Snow a lot, I see things from his POV, I would disagree with the characters who disagree with Jon,  I enjoy his story at the Wall and the North. My interpretations of the text are therefore colored by my bias towards Jon. 

For others, it’s Dany or Sansa or Arya or Tyrion or Jaime. And that’s okay because these are fictional characters and liking one more than the other is not going to earn anyone woke points and lead to women’s rights.

And finally, there’s nothing edgy or cool about disparaging the central protagonists of a high fantasy series as being fantasy characters - go read other books if one is not into fantasy.

#rant post

[antique-ro-man]

Tma + Recurring Themes

Note: This is absolutely not a comprehensive post, but simply my ramblings about what I’ve noticed as of mid-Season 4.

1. Free Will, Manipulation

This one is pretty obvious, given the prevalence of the Web, especially further into the series, along with Elias’ whole deal. Free will has never been a topic that I find particularly engaging, however TMA may be the exception, given how they use this in tandem with the running exploration of the animalization of humanity, ie instinct vs free will. This is why the Flesh and the Hunt’s existence is so crucial, they’re manifestations of humans-as-animals. I will return to free will, instinct, and manipulation later, because these are really pervasive.

2. Passivity, The Role of the Narrator

This one is one of my favorites. Though Jon’s “narrator” role becomes less central later in the series, it’s still the starting point of his character. The idea of having to bear witness to the events around you with little control except to preserve the story. To archive the events, if you will. This is very much represented in The Magnus Institute itself and how passively intellectual they are. There are so many statements where the statement giver is begging for help, but receives none. The dreams showcased in the Season Three finale really drive this point home, with Jon, literally comatose, forced to watch people suffer and die and beg for help on repeat without any way of stopping this. You may note that this inevitably can tie very nicely back into the question of free will. Furthermore, and I’ll get into this later, you can see how this passive role directly feeds into Jon’s character, as he becomes reckless and impulsive from the need to not be helpless and passive. I think this is basically said outright at some point in Season Four, but I don’t remember when or by who. This also drives home the idea of Jon as an audience surrogate, not in the traditional sense of him being bland or getting pushed around by the story, but because he is the audience. And we are the archivists. We’re the ones who hear every statement, watch everything go down, draw up our little red string boards to figure out what’s happening. But we don’t do anything to help those in the story itself, because we can’t.

3. Identity and Lose of Such

This is something we see a lot with the Entities. The idea that people are consumed by their God, leaving little of them behind. I think this is a pretty common theme in body horror, though I don’t know for sure. I think the Distortion has to be the best example of this, yes? Literally completely taking over the body and consciousness of a being to bring them into the folds of the Spiral - more or less what we see happening with the other characters touched by the Entities. The question then becomes - where does the person end and the Entity begin? Look at Melanie, her identity is so wrapped up in her anger that, when the Slaughter takes hold of her, it seems like a natural progression until it isn’t. So where does that leave Melanie? Even if you place all the blame onto the Slaughter, who are you left with? I think this works especially well given that they are characters, just a jumble of actions and traits given to them. TMA isn’t particularly meta in its horror, but a lot of what it does is directly related to the ideas of storytelling (see: There is someone controlling my actions, everything is pre-determined, and how the role of the story-teller is central to understanding the themes and characters). The Not-Them feeds into this theme as well.

4. Addiction

I’m not going to say much on this for personal reasons, but it pretty much just goes to confirm what I’ve been talking about so far. Where do you end and the addictions begin? Annabelle has a line about how addiction is directly related to the Web and loosing your control over yourself. This is at the root of Jon’s relationship to the statements, although in more of a literal sense as he kind of needs them to survive - which I assume is a literal representation of how addiction feels.

5. Mentorship

Time and time again we see this come up: Jon and Elias, Micheal Shelley and Gertrude Robinson, Martin and Peter Lucas. I think it’s also a way of showing characters grappling with lack on control on a story-level outside of the manifestations of the Web.

6. Capitalism

This is a bit more subtle because it’s more built into the story than an active theme. At the center of TMA is the magnus institute - it’s occupational horror (a lot of statements also follow people at their job having a bad time). We’re literally watching people stuck in a sole-sucking job that they can never leave because they’d die. That’s capitalism baby. This could also be related to the identity theme, as capitalism and individual identity have a very complex relationship, but that’s another rant.

7. Trauma and Trauma Responses

This is less story-scale and more about the characters, but damn! Pretty much every action these people take can be directly traced back to their trauma and that’s very smart writing. Another question of who are you without your experiences? I think this theme is most obvious in Season Two, where we are confronted with the direct trauma responses of Jon, Martin, and Tim. While in many stories you’d expect some form of trauma bonding to get an us-vs-the-world set up, instead we see infighting and them being driven away by their incompatible coping mechanisms. This is one of those sad things where you can see very easy solutions to these small-scale character conflicts, but can’t implement them (sounding familiar? It should, it’s the same thing that we talked about earlier. You are the passive listener now.) On Season Two, you can also see the Not-Them taking Sasha as a metaphor for the idea that someone can start acting like a new person after a traumatic event.

That’s all for now, stay tuned for more of Mal Sends His TMA Analysis Into The Ether

#tma #the magnus archives

[iceeckos12]

tma fic recs

I’ve seen a couple of fic rec posts floating around. since ive been reading so many excellent fic recently, i thought that id make one as well! please note this list is going to be 99% jonmartin. also buckle up, because this is going to get long.

Completed

the umbrella by Wildehack (tyleet)

"And to think—all of Jonah Magnus’ carefully laid plans, the centuries of scheming, the murders, the sacrifices, all of that work could have been completely undone if Martin Blackwood had gone back for an umbrella" - holdthosebees

Notes: This is probably my go-to fic if i want an apocalypse never happened scenario. The jonmartin is wonderful, as is the h/c.

Diary and Prenon-nous la main by luftballoons99

Diary summary:

Not for the first time since they ran away together, a camera reel of all the things they don't know about one another whirs behind Martin's eyes, and he can't help but look at all the sprawling magnetic tape and wonder if they’re going to wind up a romance or a tragedy.

or: Office parties, garage bands, and the joy of being known.

Prenon-nous la main summary:

They still haven't talked about it, any of it, not even to pass the time on the long train ride to Scotland. Instead, Martin fell asleep in the seat next to him, pressed into his side from shoulder to knee, and Jon thought about love confessions and verb tense and how the two fit together when you think you're dying.

or: Good cows, mediocre poetry, and other crucial topics of discussion.

Notes: Do you love impeccable safehouse jonmartin characterization? do you love characters grappling with the mortifying ordeal of being known? do you love softness so tender that it makes you want to weep? please read these fic. im begging you.

i’ll tell you about all the times i’ve smiled because of you by cryptidkidprem

Summary:

Martin thinks about their shoes, sitting beside each other on the floor by the bed. Thinks of the way Jon wears Martin’s cardigans more often than he wears his own, the way Martin’s started keeping elastics around his wrist because Jon always forgets his own when they go out.

He thinks about all the gentle touches and fussing over each other they’ve done, and how much is still to come over the next… however long Jon will have him.

They have a long way to go, an entire life to build out of the wreckage Jonah Magnus and Peter Lukas left them, but laying together in a comfortable, sleepy quiet, Martin thinks they’ve got a good start going.

Or, Jon quits the Institute, saves the world, and it turns out to be exactly what he needs in order to heal and start moving forward towards building a life with Martin.

Notes: how many times have i reread this fic? more than i can count. jon quits the institute and it’s just full of soft jonmartins. they get married! god i love them.

go softly by doomcountry

Summary:

And there is nothing else besides this.

Notes: every time i remember this fic i reread it. please heed the tags because martin is blinding jon, but he’s like. blinding jon in the most heartbreaking way possible. idk how the author made this so tender but i know i was certainly crying so!

The Reverb in These Holy Halls by  Wolftraps (AlwaysBoth)

Summary:

Undoing the apocalypse would have been enough for Jon, if all his people survived. Without them, Jon's only recourse is making it so it never happened in the first place. He's going to do better this time.

Notes: Do you like time travel fixits? i sure like time travel fixits. reverb is an excellent one. heavy on the h/c, I wanted to hug jon so so badly. 

Yesterday is Here by  CirrusGrey

Summary:

"Who the hell are you?" Jon could feel his hands shaking. The man laughed, taking a step forward and raising a hand to point at him. "I'm you, from the future!" he said, then swayed, eyes going unfocused, and collapsed to the floor in a dead faint. -------- Post-season-four Jon and Martin time travel back to the season one Archives.

Notes: Yet another time travel fixit! also excellent. the teasing was HYSTERICAL. also Im just going to say this now - CirrusGrey in general writes incredible tma fic. You can’t really go wrong.

unassigned supplementals by  bibliocratic 

Notes: I won’t put in a summary just because it’s a long series of oneshots, but bibliocratic’s writing is amazing. Again, you can’t really go wrong with one of their fic!

let the soft animal of your body by autoclaves

Summary:

Standing in the warm kitchen, slats of sepia light filtering through onto the counter in front of him, Martin doesn’t know what to do with his hands. He half expects them to go through the countertop entirely, glossy and solid as it is. He isn’t used to any of it, yet. The safehouse. Jon. Beams of sun pouring into his hands. After being deprived of everything of significance for so long, the longing that crashes over him is almost painful in its tangibility. He wants to laugh, to sob, to scream and hear it echoed back against the neat, square walls of the safehouse.

In the end, he doesn’t do any of these things. He makes eggs instead. He can do that, can’t he? Use his hands for something simple and plain and good.

(Or: In the safehouse after it all, Martin starts cooking.)

Notes: this fic really speaks to me a) because i project on martin like crazy and b) because food is also my love language. this fic is incredibly soft and it’s all about cooking!

“Have you tried turning it on and off again?” by shinyopals

Summary:

I hope you find your new role as Head of the Institute as rewarding as captaining the Tundra, wrote Elias Bouchard, to Peter Lukas. There are so many people working there: all with their own interesting lives, and all desiring your attention and support. I'm sure you will relish the challenge it will bring and enjoy every moment spent with the fine men and women of the Institute. In time I'm confident they'll become like a family to you.

The Magnus Institute has a new boss. The Magnus Institute also has a new tech support technician. These two facts are unrelated, except they both happen at the same time.

Meanwhile Jon's woken up from being dead for six months and for once he's trying his best. He just wishes Martin would stop avoiding him and answer his messages...

Notes: if you’re looking for a good laugh, this fic is SO SO SO FUNNY. i was dying. basically the magnus institute being an absolute bureaucratic nightmare.

hello my old heart  by  firebirdsuite

Summary:

Peter’s wrong, of course. When it’s all over, Martin does still want to tell Jon everything. It’s just—well, there’s a few things they need to work through first before they can get there.

Martin and Jon find each other again in Scotland.

Notes: it’s all about the yearning. and trust me, the yearning in this fic? im just. i sure do love jonmartin, and this is such soft, loving jonmartin it just makes you want to cry

two ships passing by pyrites

Summary:

Gerard Keay is 10 years old the very first time he tries to run away from home, right around the time that Jonathan Sims has just come into possession of his first Leitner.

Or: One dropped stone can change the way the whole ocean moves.

Notes: again, JONGERRY. MY GOODNESS. this fic is beautiful, the writing is absolutely breathtaking and it owns my heart. im so in love with it. the author said you’re going to have emotions about jon and gerry and jongerry and i said OKAY

Terminal Sight by viv_is_spooky

Summary:

Spider silk weaves through the visions of two Seers. Monstrosity is dawning on them both.

Notes: I’d never read a gerryoliver fic before this, but the execution is EXCELLENT and now im sold on the ship forever. This fic has wonderful prose and great characterization and i love it a whole lot.

Incomplete

assistant archivist au by  PitViperOfDoom

Notes: I won’t put a summary since I’m reccing an entire series, but. it is absolutely no secret that i adore jongerry. pit’s assistant archivist au slapped me over the head with some gorgeous jongerry oneshots and then gave me the gift of the main fic (which is still in progress) about head archivist martin. i love this au so so much

dustsceawung by  callmearcturus

Summary:

Martin had always been favored by the summer courts, and moving up north to the little village of Lacuna is a difficult adjustment. It's rainy and lonely and everyone seems to have a strange, distant relationship with the local faerie court.

However: there is a strange man in a cloak who walks past Martin's remote little cottage every few days.

However: there is a moth that keeps getting stuck in Martin's house during the rain.

These events are not as disconnected as they first appear.

Notes: you ever just read a fic that you didn’t know that you needed until after you read it? yeah. featuring the fae and moth jon and excellent characterization.

Illicio by ThatOneGirlBehindYou

As the new Archivist debates between life and death, the Eye ponders on what to offer him in order to avoid an encore of the unfortunate situation with his predecessor.

-----

Gerard Keay opens his eyes at what feels like fuck-ass in the morning, inside a room with far too little space and far too much dust.

Notes: This is also the moment where I reveal that im a sucker for jongerrymartin. please read this fic. gerry is brought back from the dead in s4 and everyone is far better off for it.

where there’s a will, we make a way by bubonickitten

Summary:

"So, what does happen if an Eye learns to See within itself?

What happens is this: the Archive Beholds the Watcher – and the Watcher blinks first."

________________________

Jon goes back to before the world ended and tries to forge a different path.

Notes: this time travel fixit is shaping up to be an absolutely incredible read. i love the way this author writes jon so so much, and the characterization is spot on. this whole fic just satisfies some little part of me. god. also!! bubonickitten’s writing in general? beautiful. please check out their other works.

The Timeline of Theseus by Applea

Jon tries to force the Spiral to send him back, but the Sprial's corridors never twist things quite the way you want them to. Back in 1996, Elias has no idea why or how the Eye made such a powerful Avatar out of an 8 year old, especially when said 8 year old doesn't actually know he has any powers at all. Clearly such a child cannot be left outside the Institute's care. 

Notes: This fic is legitimately brilliant. The author manages to capture the big ADHD mood and the precociousness of baby Jon while managing to write a wonderful storyline. Time travel! Elderly lesbians! A Jonah who is wildly in over his head but was walloped over the head with paternal instinct! Baby Gerry! What more could you possibly ask for?

rooms full of people who do not love each other yet by seaer

Summary:

“Wanted to ask about a book.” The boy has his hand on the counter, and he leans into it, nonchalant. The library is air-conditioned, but by no means frigid, and Jon can’t help but feel sweaty just looking at the layers he’s wearing; what looks like old leather over an olive-green Magnus pullover over his school shirt. “Do you have A Journal of the Plague Year?”

Jon says, tetchily, “We’re about to close.”

“I know. Do you have A Journal of the Plague Year?”

Notes: I am so in love with this author’s writing style and the way they write the characters!! The jon and gerry friendship is PERFECT and the character interactions are all darling.

if you read these fics please send the authors some love, they definitely deserve it!! 

#tma #fic recs #ill update this as i read #seriously some very very good stuff on here #long post

[mymomanddadaregonnabesomadatme]

"Hey Khyle, why are you obsessed with a rarepair with a dead guy in it?"

Or, JonGerry manifesto time

FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS: Gerry vs Jon's misandry

Let's talk about how Jon hates men! Jon hates men. Listen to how he conducts himself around Martin, Tim and Elias in season one versus how he gets along with Sasha and the tone is so hilariously different. He has NO patience for the men around him and even though he's still pretty crusty to the women who come in to make statements (Naomi Herne & Melanie in s1) the way he handles talking to Sasha as a colleague is wildly different from how he talks to the men he works with. The same with when he meets Basira! His social comfort around women feels distinctly different from the way he feels about, navigates around and talks to men. So it's very, VERY fun to contrast this not only with how well he and Gerry get along (even after a pretty terse greeting from Gerry!!), but also to how excited he gets talking and thinking about Gerry when he reads about him in statements and goes to America hoping he's still alive. I think being an exciting Idea of a person makes it slightly easier for Jon to digest him before meeting him, and I also think it's the reason that...

SECOND ORDER OF BUSINESS: Gerry is Jon's celebrity crush

If you need convincing, look no further than the fondness with which Jon says "that would be our Gerard" to Jurgen Leitner and your heart will open to this reality...Jon read about a cool goth in some statements and idealized him so hard he started crushing on him. Is Jon out to himself? No idea! Will that stop him from doing the very Jon thing of having very transparent feelings about something? Nope!

I've mentioned it in other posts but I do think it's significant how excited Jon is when he hopes Gerry is alive in America so he can meet him. There are a lot of little notes and quips Jon makes about Gerry throughout the series thay really solidify the idea that he's excited about him. I think Jon gets excited to pull information together and recognize figures from other statements -- he is the Archivist after all -- but I think some of the fondness Jon applies when talking about Gerry is significant and distinct from how he talks about other figures from statements. Plus, Jon has a reason to empathize with and relate to Gerry, given the fact that Leitners were one of the few things he allowed for the existence of even in season one, and Gerry is clearly so upset by their existence that he's gone around destroying them and beating up Jurgen Leitner himself. Probably hard for Jon not to idealize someone doing the work that he was so desperate for Elias to let him engage in during season one, huh? I think we all idealize and build parasocial relationships based on a feeling of relating to the people who are somewhat out of our reach...a cool goth who destroys evil books and punched the man whose library ruined your life? Might be a little hard not to get excited about the idea of him...🤔

THIRD ORDER OF BUSINESS: Gerry in the (quasi-) flesh vs. Gerry on the page

So, maybe you're convinced there were some celebrity crush feelings, maybe you aren't, but there's definitely some idealization at play with how Jon views Gerard Keay, Book-Hunting Goth Of Legend. Now let's talk about how that idea contrasts with Gerry, the regular (ish) dude that comes out of a book in America!!!

I think something very fun to note is how much they joke around with each other, basically right off the bat. It's pretty clear to me how much fun they have in each other's company, especially considering Gerry cites literally being in pain while he's existing as a page in the book. Both the crusty intro and Jon's reluctance to take and burn the page could have soured the entire interaction, but they both enjoy each other's company pretty transparently for the whole exchange. Gerry is straight with Jon in a way no one has been through basically his entire time learning about his position as the Archivist, and despite the fact that Jon summons Gerry for a purpose, it's hard not to view the exchange as largely social because of the tone. The fact that Gerry has ONE conversation with him and thinks of him as a friend is I think pretty telling as far as how Gerry views Jon's intentions and trustworthiness. He has a backlog of experience with Gertrude and insight into the ruthlessness of an Archivist, one that we never see calling him Gerry, and he still meets Jon for 20 minutes and goes yeah. I could befriend this dude. I also think this reinforces how Jon feels about Gerry: he's pretty forthcoming with information, even if he fucks around with him a bit, and there's some trust and transparency there that I think reinforces Jon's rare positive view of a dude in his life.

Like, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Jongerry lives in the passage through the Jon Misandry Zone. He can only like a cool fictional goth that he has a reasonable amount of distance from but he's so excited when he meets him irl it forces him to actually learn about him as a person. Idealizing Gerry gives him the motivation to actually learn about another man and untangle how he feels about them!!!

FOURTH ORDER OF BUSINESS: One of these dudes is literally dead

Honestly I'm only Marginally stopped from my rarepair dedication by this fact, but if it's an issue, let's consider:

It's literally a horror tragedy podcast so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say literally any happy romantic ending for characters is inherently an AU anyway, even if the ones folks are invested in somehow all end up living to the end lol. I guess folks can pray for postgame potential but I've already succumbed to how inherently doomed a lot of these characters seem so...the world is gonna be my rarepair oyster I guess!!!

Also, it's a podcast with some level of worldbuilding around reincarnation. Gerry got brought back once, could he be again? Imo we're only limited by our imaginations on that one. Lots of potential to play around with the form him being brough back and sustained could be...and, honestly, same with any rarepairs where one or both parties are dead imo! I'm here to push my jongerry agenda AND support the kneading of canon into something your faves could be brought back to life in. Death should stop no one from wanting Jon to kiss a hot goth dude!!!

LAST ORDER OF BUSINESS: Compatibility??? CHEMISTRY???

Alright I mean...I can't force anyone to find their back and forths cute and flirty like I do but I CAN say why I think this couple has so much fun potential:

Gerry is already used to being around An Archivist and seems to already think Jon is more friendworthy based on the Gerry request. He would probably be a lot more comfortable navigating around him than some of Jon's other colleagues, occasional snacktime or not. I think being in a book owned by two hunters probably gives him enough context for "monsters, but trying to be good in their own way" for him to be pretty levelheaded about Jon. A human connection that's based on enjoyment of each other's company with someone smart enough to not sign a contract might just be good for our spooky little Archivist...Also...

JON IS A STUFFY DWEEB AND GERRY IS A COOL GOTH THAT'S KILLED A GUY!!! Is this NOT the greatest couple concept this podcast could have offered us? The contrast...the meeting of worlds...Jon idealizing Gerry because he's a cool sexy goth and Gerry getting excited because he's got a sexy scary monster boyfriend...it's all there!!! Rife with entertaining potential!!!

Anyway these are my pro-jongerry arguments I hope you all enjoyed my rarepair shipping manifesto. Don't forget to like comment and subcribe and let me just say...once more for the road...

JonGerry Rights

#jongerry #tma #the magnus archives #spoilers #long post

[mydearjonah]

jenni’s TMA fic recs

for Elena @wellbustmybuffers but also anyone who wants it. 

i have spent a lot of time reading fanfiction, and i have read (at this point) almost everything that has piqued my interest in the tma ao3 tag from it’s inception to roughly july 18th, 2020. this is an absolutely non-exhaustive list of my all-time favorites. i tried to pick the things that stuck in my mind the best. it is also heavily skewed, naturally, by my own personal preferences.

to see all that i have bookmarked (as well as my own work), go here. i stand by all of these fics & only bookmark if i was really impressed with something. 

i marked the ones that i rec the absolute STRONGEST with a star.

jonmartin

☆ A Measure Outside of the Lines by Rend_Herring; https://archiveofourown.org/works/22202806  

imo i consider this to be THE scottish safehouse period fic. scottish safe-house period is a great sub-genre of jonmartin fic that i highly rec to you, elena, especially if you’re just coming off of 159, and this is my favorite and the one that i feel captures their personalities and dynamic the best. highly, highly recommend; one of my top three favorites in the whole fandom. 

Yesterday is Here by CirrusGrey; https://archiveofourown.org/works/22230022/chapters/53078617 

“Post-season-four Jon and Martin time travel back to the season one Archives.” 

extremely well-written jonmartin timetravel shenanigans pining. really, really good jonmartin content. i would describe the genre as “time travel fix-it au romantic comedy.”

take sides in divided cells by bibliocratic; https://archiveofourown.org/works/22456720 

“Martin's father comes back into his life.“ 

post-series 5 jonmartin happily ever after set-up that allows the author to delve deeply into martin’s psyche. fanfiction at it’s finest. 

Dethroned by inkedinserendipity; https://archiveofourown.org/works/22342663 

post-series take. warning for major character death. this is peak well-written yet sad & indulgent angst-y jonmartin. 

Be Your Raincoat by free_smarcher; https://archiveofourown.org/works/23479480

“It's a rainy night at the tail end of 2013, and Arctic Monkeys' latest record is everywhere - including at the pub where a young Martin Blackwood is hung up on his coworker from the Institute.” 

pre-series oneshot that i adore for three reasons. 1) the jonmartin pining is absolutely excellent, in-character, gorgeous, 2) the author has a very sharp grasp on martin blackwood specifically that i think is rare in the fandom and 3) the author PERFECTLY captured the late 2013 Arctic Monkeys perpetual AM album zeitgeist in a way that makes me specifically feel SUPER nostalgic. 

The Watford Gap by chewsdaychillin; https://archiveofourown.org/works/24886216

“a Martin and his relationship w the og three study w class/accent discourse, pet names, slang, and tenderness. jonmartin north/south power couple“

pre-series oneshot jonmartin pining that i cannot recommend enough. author has an extremely good grasp on s1 characterization as well as british sociocultural realities. this fic makes me very emotional for a lot of reasons. 

jonmartin but with heavy monster!jon (and written before s5 aired so speculative as to the endgame plot--still rec tho if you like monster!jon)

☆ ceylon, assam, and darjeeling by Sciosa; https://archiveofourown.org/works/20577347/chapters/48849719 

“People do not bring Jonathon Sims tea. Martin Blackwood, newly-minted archival assistant, has apparently not received this memo.”

i absolutely cannot express how much i adore this fic. it’s a three-parter that follows the jm relationship as it develops through the lens of martin making jon tea. the final part is the real whammy. i have read this fic repeatedly and cried each time.

Fall into the night with you by ZaliaChimera; https://archiveofourown.org/works/19851157 

“It's the end of the world, and Martin has one more thing to do before it is the end of him too. There is a calm wrapped thickly around the Institute, the eye of the storm, and Martin climbs.“

for me, this is the absolute peak monster!jon/martin. i will not lie, you gotta heed the warnings on this fic. but the end of this fic haunts me. 

lonely eyes

a note: i LOVE lonely eyes but a lot of it is really smutty or slice of life. i tried to choose the fics that i thought captured both characters the best and were smart & intentional about the dynamic. elena, if u ever go down the lonely eyes road & are interested in other recs, please let me know!

☆ Luck Be A Lady Tonight by prodigy; https://archiveofourown.org/works/20257240 

“In 2014, Elias Bouchard takes a rare trip outside of his comfort zone. Peter Lukas wastes a bunch of money. You'd be surprised how many things can go wrong for two beings of cosmic power.”

this is a black comedy casino episode lonely eyes take that is one of my favorite pieces of work in this fandom and also, honestly, one of my favorite pieces of fiction straight up that i have ever read. prodigy has an extremely sharp grasp on both peter and elias (but especially peter), and they breathe life into the world of mag in a way that is absolutely unparalleled, even at times by the original series imo. 

walled up in your kingdom with radio wires by Ronabird; https://archiveofourown.org/works/24465679 

so i’m not gonna lie i’ve never read His Dark Materials but this is a daemon au that i just can’t get enough of. it’s a short lonely eyes piece; the basic gist of it is that peter has lost a bet and now jonah gets to meet his daemon. this fic has everything that i want and rarely get in lonely eyes works: statements on both peter and jonah’s characters, and their dynamic sharply written. again, the last lines of this piece have stayed with me as well. 

jonelias (i’m sorry...)

note: none of these are terribly explicit but instead largely it is about their dynamic. 

a fish hook, an open eye by marrowbones; https://archiveofourown.org/works/22351618 

“Jon and Martin take a surreal holiday after escaping the Lonely. Everything would be fine if only Jon's strange dreams of Jonah Magnus would stop.”

this is a jonmartin fic in equal turn. set during the scottish safehouse period. essentially, jon is trying to reconcile that fact that elias is jonah while also being visited by him in his dreams. this is one of the first jonelias fics written after the “elias is jonah magnus” reveal, and i think it is still one of the absolute best. the author does a phenomenal job capturing this looming, atmospheric sense of dread. they also totally nail jonah magnus and the jonelias dynamic. 

thieves in the temple by havisham; https://archiveofourown.org/works/23287711 

“Elias wins and takes Jon out on the town.“

very short; shares a lot of the same dna as a fish hook, an open eye. essentially a dream-state meeting between the two of them during early s5. “a perfect fic.”

Eye to Eye by Dribbledscribbles; https://archiveofourown.org/works/24194554 

“In which Jonah Magnus attempts a post-apocalyptic pep talk.“

a s5 pep talk from jonah, who the author absolutely NAILS, to jon. this is not a fic with a happy ending so be warned. but it is a very satisfying read and the ending is... not quite a twist, but a really well done, dark reveal. 

heterochromia by screechfox; https://archiveofourown.org/works/21186011 

“After Jon drags Martin out of the Lonely, Jon and Elias trade an eye for an eye. Quite literally.“

post-ep 159. this is basically a jonmartinelias fic, honestly. i am adding this here because i love it SO MUCH but also it is so intensely up my particular alley. hurt/comfort/angst. also GORE AND BODY HORROR. but it wraps up to be weirdly sweet. i cry every time ngl i’ve read this fic a lot. it’s because i’m a monsterfucker i’m sorry. 

a love that tastes like spring by sugarboat; https://archiveofourown.org/works/20189953 

this is a comically well-written jonelias hanahaki fanfic. that’s it. that’s the plot. it’s amazing. it’s basically a shojo oneshot except with in-character jon and elias. this is one of the first fics i read in this fandom that totally blew me away. 

stand-alones/gen/other

☆ The Timeline of the Theseus by Applea; https://archiveofourown.org/works/24018289/chapters/57784525 

“Jon tries to force the Spiral to send him back, but the Sprial's corridors never twist things quite the way you want them to. Back in 1996, Elias has no idea why or how the Eye made such a powerful Avatar out of an 8 year old, especially when said 8 year old doesn't actually know he has any powers at all. Clearly such a child cannot be left outside the Institute's care.”

i absolutely cannot say enough about this fic. this is one of the few works of fiction i’ve read in my life that i was so obsessed with i genuinely ruined my sleep schedule to finish. this fic is absolutely HILARIOUS. essentially, jon is an extremely powerful 8 year old w/ no knowledge of who he is who is being raised by jonah, who is completely out of his depth. also has a nice touch of gertrudeagnes & the author really nails their dynamic/the tragedy of their relationship...

☆ Scarred Ground by DictionaryWrites; https://archiveofourown.org/works/21791737/chapters/51999124 

this is a really interesting work of fiction just generally. it features a non-linear narrative, plays with a lot of unreality, and has a great deal of time wonkiness. i actually can’t explain the plot without giving it away, which i resolutely do not want to do because piecing together what is going on is a huge part of the fun. martin is the primary character, but everyone is featured. jonmartin and lonely eyes are the two ships. one of my favorite works in the fandom.

the last lines/final reveal absolutely tore me apart. i cried like a baby. 

patterns by fadewords; https://archiveofourown.org/works/22015792 

“Jon is ill and can't stop Knowing things. Daisy helps.“

long and worth it. very well-written. the author is very talented and essentially uses the world/set up of mag and the beholding to play. set during s4. everyone is extremely in character. 

out in the drowning deep by Wildehack; https://archiveofourown.org/works/21473506 

“Basira holds it together.”

basira-centric s5 speculative fic. it has since been jossed but that’s no matter. this is one of the best basira fics in the fandom imo, and honestly the only one that i’ve read that i feel really nails her character and her relationship with daisy specifically. in general as well, this is a really fun speculative take on the apocalypse written before s5 aired. 

Chasm-e-Baddoor by kashinoha; https://archiveofourown.org/works/23917396/chapters/57510853 

“Wherein Jonah Magnus gets acquainted with defeat at the hands of his associates. Repeatedly.”

lonely eyes a little but overall gen. essentially just a very well-written 3 piece suite about instances over the course of jonah magnus’ long life when he gets absolutely schooled by people within it. the gertrude piece is my favorite, to the point where i consider it canon. 

And All Should Cry, Beware! Beware! by OldSwinburne; https://archiveofourown.org/works/24623179/

“When the Eye decides to select a new Avatar, it chooses Martin Blackwood, the Poet, rather than Jonathan Sims, the Archivist.“

very unique & well-written monster!martin that haunts me. 

avatar groupchat by gayprophets; https://archiveofourown.org/works/21599185/chapters/51501598 

fun gen popular chatfic. one of the only chatfics i’ve ever read where everyone is in character. a must-read in the fandom. lots of laughs to be had. i like that they bully elias. 

this is really just the surface!! there’s A LOT that’s still on my to-read list, and also obviously a lot of new and probably phenomenal work has been published since july 18th that i have to catch up on. i hope that you enjoy!!! i love fanfiction and there’s a lot of really unique and fun stuff in this fandom

#me #/ #my stuff #jonelias #jonmartin #lonely eyes #ships tagged for my own blog's purposes

[martellen]

asoiaf meme

i was tagged by @incurablescribbler thanks! ♡

1. What do you think the dynamic between Tywin, Joanna and Aerys actually was?

we know that tywin and aerys were friends as growing up. i think that aerys inviting tywin to serve as hand was the beginning of the end of their relationship. aerys started to become jealous of tywin’s reputation. i also think he took jaime into the kingsguard to robb tywin of his true heir, and things only worsened since then. as for joanna, i don’t think she was in a willing affair with aerys, as some people speculate and i hate the rape theories, to me those theories only exist so fan fave tyrion can have special targ blood™. i don’t know what the dynamic between joanna and aerys exactly was though.

2. An AU scenario you desperately wanted to happen?

i wanted the queenmaker plot to succeed when i was reading it for the first time, but thinking of it now perhaps it wouldn’t go as planned. i also wanted elia and the kids to turn out safe somehow.

3. An arc you wish had gone differently.

catelyn’s. i wish she wasn’t at the red wedding and therefore stayed alive as catelyn rather than lady stoneheart, plus we would still have her as a pov. i still like the lady stoneheart story though.

4. One favourite character from each House, and why?

• house martell - arianne, i love how she doesn’t accept being set aside and fight for her rights, her dynamics with her family and her confidence.

• house lannister - jaime, his story is one of my favorites in the books. i don’t think he’s on a full redemption arc, he surely has changed but it’s more like we start to get to see his point of view and inner thoughts. his conflicts were a joy to explore, and he is one of the most complex characters of the series.

• house stark - sansa, i love how she still remains faithful in the world despite what she’s going through. most of us(including myself) would lose hope if we have gone through even half of what she has gone through, but she chooses to see the beauty of the world.

• house tully - catelyn, i wish we got more of her as a pov. she was one of the most well written and realistic characters. i can’t stand the negativity towards her just because she wasn’t kissing jon’s feet.

• house targaryen - rhaella, so little is known about her, but i already find her interesting. i believe we can say she was kind and warmhearted, considering she embraced rhaenys when aerys humiliated her. she would have a good relationship with her grandchildren had they stayed alive.

• house baratheon - shireen, i will start killing things if her fate turns out to be like in the show. she’s already seeing disappointment from her mother and from time to time her father, and being sacrificed by them would be the last straw. i liked her relationship with davos and stannis so far, she deserves some happiness and peace. i have a feeling that her greyscale will be important in twow.

• house tyrell - margaery, i like her; she’s intelligent and ambitious. i believe she is trying to make the best out of the situation her father put her in. she surely isn’t as innocent and altruistic as sansa sees her, but she’s not how cersei views her either.

5. The one part of your favourite characters arc (past or present) that hurts you a lot? 

elia and her children’s fate hurts me a lot. i’m very defensive over them, no woman or child deserves this, no matter what kind of a person they might be.

6. Which of the pre-AGoT ladies are you most fascinated with? Why?

elia martell. i know we have only like two sentences about her and know so little of her, but i’m very protective over her. the way she is set aside both in asoiaf and in fandom hurts me.

7. An otherwise good character that you have a pet peeve with. What is that pet peeve?

i like olenna tyrell, but i can’t stand her homophobic and racist comments.

8. The worst thing your favourite character has done? Why do you think he/she did that?

for jaime, it is pushing bran and being ready to kill arya. i don’t think he had enough time before pushing bran to chew on what might happen afterwards. i think it was a basic instinct that the boy should be silenced. killing arya was what cersei wanted, she asked of him to do so because of what arya has done to joffrey, though that doesn’t excuse jaime since he’s a grown man and should take responsibility for his actions.

9. If you had to change one event/arc pre-Robert’s Rebellion, what would it have been?

i would erase rhaegar and elia’s whole marriage, therefore at least some losses of robert’s rebellion could be avoided and elia would be safe at home with her family.

10. Your favourite line uttered or thought by any character?

it’s this one by jaime, “how much can a crown be worth, when a crow can dine upon a king?”. one of the best lines in the books and i think it is a defining quote of ‘a feast for crows’.

my questions:

1. which character do you identify with the most and why?

2. a character you have an unpopular opinion about, and what is that opinion?

3. a character you think is underrated/overrated and why?

4. a very popular theory treated as canon that you have your doubts or don’t like the idea of it?

5. something done on the show that you strongly wish turns out not to be book canon?

6. what would make you defend your least favorite character?

7. which are your favorite and least favorite houses and why?

8. a storyline or character you wish grrm has written differently?

9. your favorite dynamic between two characters? (romantic or not)

10. if there was to come out new prequels/sequels/spinoffs what would you like them to be about?

i’m tagging: @1nsaankahanhai-bkr @goldenbackhand @meliaandre @miladyhigh @rhaella @swainlake @trulilyblr @yvvaine @iknewyouwereswiftie @estatica-tm

#asoiaf meme #tag games

[janiedean]

What do you think would have happened to the asoiaf story if Cersei had married Rhaegar? Would Jaime have killed Aerys? Would Robert have rebelled and if so, would he have won? Would Rhaegar have a affair with Lyanna?

okay so

this requires a lot of unpacking (sorry for getting here this late xD) but let’s try to give it a go in order. premises:

point the first: we have to keep in mind that a) cersei wanted the marriage, b) cersei definitely projected on him but she wasn’t doing it out of, well, wanting to be with herself for once, so we can assume that she would have wanted it to work

point the second: if it worked out it means aerys was not at the point of wanting to piss tywin off

point the third: until we get flashbacks or so on we can’t know what the fuck was going on with rhaegar but I’m working on the assumption that he didn’t really care who he got married to as long as he had those three kids/heads of the dragon to fulfill the prophecy (which is my hc) and that the rhaegar/lyanna thing happened because a) he needed the third kid and he was looking for an alternative since elia wouldn’t have survived, b) they both got infatuated with each other, c) he most likely acted on it and she followed because it looked like a great prospect

about sure things:

the one thing I’m 100% sure about is that the moment the marriage happened cersei would have dropped jaime like the hottest boiling potato in existence like no way she’d have risked the marriage of her dreams/fantasy/whatever for an affair with him on the side that would risk both of their necks and the family honor when she had exactly what she wanted

so jaime gets The Worst Deal Out Of This period

about possible outcomes, there’s the most likely total AU outcome and closer-to-canon outcome, as in, total AU outcome:

since we know that cersei has no childbearing issues, she actually does get rhaegar those three kids

rhaegar doesn’t like probably love her but is more or less what she was hoping for because hey he’s getting what he wants out of the deal

they have the three kids, rhaegar doesn’t look for any other head of the dragon

if cersei is r’s wife then aerys can’t fire tywin because lmao how would that look like, so either the situation means he doesn’t lose it half as much or they manage to keep it under control because it’s not like tywin is gonna let him disrespect his daughter now that she married his son soooooo I mean I don’t think it’d get to the point where a rebellion is needed esp. if tywin keeps aerys under check

which means jaime doesn’t kill aerys and just has the most horrid life ever because he has to basically be at cersei’s side always but can’t have her or anything and he most likely turns into a cynical person for a whole lot of different reasons than in canon

at that point I think lyanna would likely marry robert as stated and bye

(so no jon snow sorry bb)

closer-to-canon outcome:

rhaegar actually shows that he can’t care less for *cersei* but only cares about their future kids

which pisses cersei off because HOW DARE HE

they do have the children but it’s not a good marriage because she resents him

at that point she would look for jaime again but I doubt jaime would be down with it

if he was even more dangerous secret relationship

regardless of that the infatuation with lyanna becomes absolutely possible because rhaegar would be looking regardless

if the rebellion happens but the lannisters are always on the crown’s side from the beginning I doubt it’d work so well for robert but if rhaegar ran off with lyanna they’d take it as a slight and possibly not side with the crown, which would put jaime in the Worst Possible Position Ever and in that case I think he still could have killed aerys but he’d come out of it a way worse person than he was at his lowest point in the series tbqh

tldr: depends on how you think it might go xD

#spoilers: i'm planning a jaime/jonc thing where it happens but IT DOENS'T GO LIKE THIS ANYWAY #bc those two teaming up would obv have other ends #but it's like pure fanfic so i'm not going there XDDDD #only slightly less toxic than chernobyl's ruins #anti-lannincest #janie writes meta #i guess #Anonymous #ask post

[eliamartellappreciation]

Well, it's been some time, but here we go again...

Okay, I've been away from the blog and tumblr in general for some time. I am Brazilian, and I do not know if you know, but we are currently facing a political problem in which we are focused on fighting against fascism in order not to allow our country to sink into another dictatorship. For this reason, I apologize for the little movement on the blog, and I hope you understand.

Anyway, I decided to take a look around and check if there was something new in the tags, and behold I find several supporters of Rhaegar justifying and relativizing their actions (once again). What I found most interesting was that the argument in question was that those who hold a negative view of Rhaegar do not understand the literary work. This was rather ironic, since the same argument can be used for those who refuse to see fault with their favorites, let's face it, is the one that most occurs with Rhaegar. I do not speak for all of Elia's fans here, but speaking for me, I do not think he was a monster. Not really. But that does not stop me from seeing your negative actions and your faults. The GRRM characters are, as he himself characterizes them, ashes. This means that everyone has both good and bad points. Deny any of them is ignore all the complexity of your writing. That said, let's go to other issues.

Another point raised was that Dorne was “built around Elia”. This statement is very problematic because it stereotypes a whole nation. Being I a Brazilian woman, a Latina proud of my roots, this kind of argument makes me very bitter, since I grew up surrounded by these stereotypes that do not fit the reality with which I live. In this sense, we need only look at Dorne to realize that, despite the supposed liberalism by which the kingdom is known, the characters have very personal characteristics. Doran is not like Oberyn, just like Quentyn is not like Arianne. Therefore, to consider that Elia may be a liberal woman because she was Dorne's is a rather shallow interpretation, and frankly, it is an issue that has been thoroughly discussed. (Note that I do not deny the possibility of she accepted what happened, I'm just pointing out that generalizing this is wrong and absurd.)

Now, since so many arguments have mixed things about the show and the books, I think it would be good to separate what the canon of books is and what the lore of the TV series is because they are very different things then.

The mentions about Elia in the books are few, and about their feelings/relationship are null. There is no mention of this issue in any of the five books of the Chronicles (or even in the spin-offs). What we know about Elia and Rhaegar's relationship in books is very basic. Rhaegar needed to get married, Aerys ordered to find a wife for him. The best option found was Elia (the why is still an open question, but it is generally believed that she was chosen by herself to be a descendant of a Targaryen, in addition to being close to the prince's age, doing what the marriage could occur immediately). An agreement was then made between the crown and the late Princess of Dorne. The ones involved in the issue seem to have had no say in the whole negotiation (this is what we know at the moment).

Yet their marriage was not a fiasco. According to Barristan Selmy, they did well and Rhaegar “quite liked the princess”, although he concluded that he was not sure if Rhaegar was capable of “feeling happiness”. Again, the feelings of Elia herself are not addressed. Even so, they had two children. Two children who almost cost the mother's life, because the mother always had a health and a fragile constitution. It is from here that begins the controversy already much debated.

Elia was left in Dragostone with little Rhaenys and Aegon, at the time a newborn baby. Her husband could not be found anywhere, although somehow everyone knew he was with Lyanna Stark. In the meantime the Rebellion broke out, and Aerys, who no longer liked her daughter-in-law and did not even trust her family, decided made of her would become a hostage to the crown along with her children. Again, we have no accounts of her thoughts or feelings here, just the basics. Briefly, after this Rhaegar returns and departs again into battle, dying in the process.

When the news arrives at Port Royal, Aerys II then decides to declare his son Viserys as heir to the throne in place of his grandson, Aegon, and sends him to Dragon Stone with his Queen (then pregnant with Daenerys). It is only at this moment that we perceive the “voice” of Elia for the first time in the whole situation. She begs to go along with her children, but Aerys refuses to allow her to leave, and the prison continues.

The next time we hear her voice, it will be at the moment of her death. According to reports, the Princess would have called “by a certain name” when her door was broken open and the attack occurred. Her rape and her death are already known, so I will not dwell on it, but the main point here is the same. Elia's relationship with Rhaegar, a question remains speculative.

 Now, in the TV series, the arguments change drastically. Elia is mentioned in several episodes of the series, and still has its feelings described by its brother, Oberyn, both in the series itself, and in History and Lore.

 But let's start from the beginning. In the series, the search for the bride was similar to the book, with the crucial difference that in GOT, it was Rhaegar himself who chose Elia. It was also he who moved from the Capital to Dorne to ask for the Princess's hand. According to Oberyn, they were initially not very willing to give in, but Rhaegar convinced them that she would be a good husband to her and that she would take care of her, and thus won not only the Princess but also her family. This is all told in the History and Lore of the series itself.

 In the TV series, Rhaegar and Elia lived in the Red Keep itself, along with the prince's parents. It is stated by Oberyn that Elia loved truely her husband. She give him children have wanted and struggled to be a good wife because she loved him. And in return for this love, Rhaegar abandoned her and ran away with Lyanna Stark. According to Oberyn, Rhaegar left his wife with his crazy father and ignored his feelings and his children.

As we know, to make matters worse, the show-Rhaegar not only abandoned his wife to the imminent danger of his father's madness and war, but also annulled their marriage (we will dispense with comments about the impossibility and impracticability of this, since we 're talking about the series and coherence is not the forte there). Finally, Elia, alone and frightened, ended up being raped and killed along with her children (in the series, she witnessed the murder of both before dying, whereas in the books, she only saw the death of Aegon).

That being said, we can see that the differences between the works are actually glaring. And I understand the fans book-Rhaegar, because he is quite complex. Already in the series? It is almost impossible for me to believe that someone is still trying to defend him. The Rhaegar of the series is a horrible personage, who was totally inconsequent in his actions.

I will not mention Lyanna here, because I have nothing against the character in the books, in fact, I think she is quite interesting, and in the series she did not have much prominence, appearing only to be the passionate girl who dies in childbirth . (We do not have her sensitive statements about Robert, or her defense of Howland Reed, or even her possible action as KoLT.) At the show, her only function was to be Jon's mother, so there's no lot of personality for be discussed

So, just for conclude, let's combine it like this: Do not stereotype characters, defend Rhaegar in his tag and separate what is canon from the books and what is in the series at the time of making their defense. Do not presume to be superior by not accepting points of view divergent from yours, for each critic has an argument as well as every defense. Is for this what duality exists in the characters. And, please do not use the Elia Martell tag for this.

#elia martell #princess elia #anti-rhaegar #anti show-rhaegar #I'm really tired of it #People need to start separating the books from TV series #Please do not stereotype characters. #elia of dorne #Princess Elia of Dorne #anti-got #anti-game of thrones

[ironicallypresant]

Superhero au part three: from how much thought I’ve put into this I really do want to write it but I know I will do the first chapter hate how crap my writing is then never do more 😂

Powers and abilities: (and hero/villain names).

-Lyanna Stark= Mystery Night, she can turn her skin to steel (one of my favourite Ned quotes is when he says “you saw her beauty but not the steel within) she probably met Rhaegar (and Elia) in civilian disguise and initially she didn’t know about the alter-ego’s of her new partners. (I could write a prequel one shot about this with lots of shenanigans and misunderstandings but let’s be real I probably won’t 😂) Ultimately Lyanna would discover who they are and end the relationship. Rhaegar would still not know that Lyanna is mystery knight, Elia would (because she hold the Targaryen family’s one brain cell). She wouldn’t realise she was pregnant until sometime later, not wanting the system to unfairly judge her son she gets her brothers to help her hide the truth.

-Ned Stark= Candor, he is basically a human lie detector. I thought this was fitting as he’s always known for his honesty and honour and like in asoiaf he’s ironically helping a huge lie go undiscovered. And I think that having Ned help it would help sell the lie the most as most people come to the wrong assumption that Ned can’t actually lie.

-Benjen Stark= Night Ranger, he can turn invisible. This is his power because he was invisible for so much of the series. He also knows about R+L=J.

-The Stark family ‘talent’ is an affinity for wolves, basically warging and all the starks can do this as well as their individual power. Cat and Ned’s kids also have the Tully ability of controlling water. -Robb Stark= Young Wolf, he can shape shift into a Wolf. While he is in the same year as Jon, he and theon are both on the older end while Jon is one of the youngest. This means they take the placement test much earlier than Jon, adding to Jon’s anxiety.

-Sansa Stark= Charmer, think Piper from the Percy Jackson series. I thought hard about Sansa’s ability because she’s a character that changes a lot in the series so it would be cool if the power she had fit with each stage of her. I landed on ‘charm speak’ as I think it’s something that would work with the vanity and naivety of her younger self and yet also forshadow her future as an expert manipulator. -Arya Stark= Multis, Arya’s power was the easiest to descide as I think the whole faceless man thing makes shapeshifter the obvious choice. Rather than having to steal faces maybe she has to touch a person to be able to shift into them that first time (once she has the ‘face’ she can then change without touching the person) and it could drain the person a bit like rogue from X-men. I kind of got lazy with the name and just went for multi in Latin 🤷🏻‍♀️.

-Bran Stark= Raven because I thought three eyed raven sounded too long. He is basically Professor X he even has the wheel chair.

-I couldn’t descide for Rickon so I’m copping out and saying he’s too young to have developed his powers.

-Catelyn Stark= Pieces, she was hard as I’m not really a fan of her, largely because of her treatment of Jon. Since she’s not really my favourite figuring out a power for her was tricky as I don’t know the little details that I know about other characters. I went with pieces as I thought that maybe she relies on her Tully power more than her individual one. It may just be me but I felt being a ‘Tully’ and what that meant was really important to Catelyn in cannon so I thought that in this au she shows this by using the power more and not necessarily carving out her own identity as she should. I think her individual power would be sort of like a human version of a Weasley clock, could be really cool but because it’s undeveloped she never learned to sense people outside of her family.

-Theon Greyjoy= Ironborn, Theon was fun to do because he caused me to think about the au more and develop it in my head. He has the inherited Greyjoy ability of being able to breathe underwater and use saltwater to heal (think Percy Jackson) and his inherited power would be the control of sea creatures (including birds). His power would definitely be looked down on by his family which would all have much more violent ability’s. I went with Ironborn as I think it’s something Theon would choose as an attempt to bond with his family (unsuccessfully) and the name wouldn’t really fit him. He may change his name later once he comes to terms with who he really is. I’d probably use Theon’s family as the most evident example of the system’s flaws. Despite being a ‘hero lineage’ the Greyjoy’s would be less wealthy than other powered families and looked down on by the hero community. In a complete coincidence (🙄) more Greyjoy’s are being assigned as villain each generation (even though some of them really don’t deserve to be)

-Jon Stark= Angel, coming up with a name was as hard as deciding his power and , ngl I’m still not sure if this is definitely THE name. I couldn’t decide whether Jon already had a name for himself previous to developing his third power. If he had it would be something fire related as he thought that was his individual power, but ultimately as I knew that name would change anyway I focused on finding a name that matched his real individual power. Thanks to the input of @manyangledone I decided that his power would be necromancy. It’s a power that on the surface is super dark and screams evil, but in reality could be used really well for good and I think that’s what Jon could do. (Think a mix of Nico Di’Angelo and Klaus Hargreaves). Pretty much as soon as necromancy was suggested I had the need to write a scene where Jon accidentally raises Sansa’s dog Lady, which died under suspicious circumstances, (causing lots of screaming mostly from Theon though he denies this) and reveals that she was actually killed by Joffrey. Problem was this burning need to write occurred at one in the morning and my eyes said no. I chose the name angel as while I know it’s hardly original I have got increasingly attached to the concept. I imagine Jon deciding on the name shortly after denouncing the system and deciding that he is/will be a hero. After all angels of death are still angels. Wouldn’t the image of Jon standing proud (though not necessarily very tall) against the powers that be with angel with made of FiRe be super cool!? (I may need to draw this...) Also adding in some angst, after Jon in blackmailed into transferring to Dragonstone he could go by the name fallen angel or Morningstar! Even more heartache if this is a name assigned to him (maybe by Rhaegar?) rather than something he chose himself, showing how people are trying to assign his identity to him rather than letting him choose for himself. Basically if I ever end up writing this Jon is gonna be one massive metaphor... (and somewhere my English teacher will be screaming into the void that there are other literature devices to use damn you!)

-Sorry for the long post.

#game of thrones #Jon snow #superhero au #fanfiction #part three

[snarktheater]

Series review — Game of Thrones (Season 7)

Yeah, just because I decided not to snark every episode individually this year does not mean I'm happy about where Game of Thrones is headed any more than I was last year. It's actually kind of worse. Season 6 felt somewhat better than 5, but this is a nosedive. And the problem is, it's not exactly a nosedive in quality, which makes it increasingly frustrating to talk to people who still like the show. Not that it hasn't been frustrating for the past few years, but it certainly got worse.

But hey, who am I if not the guy who hates the cool stuff? Well, I'm still a lot of other things, but for the sake of the joke, let's pretend otherwise and talk about this season. This mercifully short season, yet still too long, in that it exists at all.

When I review something, I like to stay as nuanced as possible, which usually means being very…wordy. But when it comes to this show, I can easily summarize what went wrong. Namely: the showrunners ran out of books to adapt, and they did not understand the story they were making in the first place.

I'm not saying that as a book fan butthurt that they changed things (although…I am that too, kind of). This issue should be apparent even if you did not read the books. Because the show has basically become a completely different story. I'm gonna have to go on a tangent to explain this further, so bear with me, please.

A few years ago, South Park made a triple (triple!) episode mocking Game of Thrones (and promoting their then-upcoming video game). The main point of criticism they threw at the show, aside from daring to include male frontal nudity (which…you know what, it's stupid and I won't go there), was "when do the dragons show up?" There was a measure of self-awareness, since it was children asking that question. And yet, to someone like me monitoring people's reactions…it seemed to be a recurring one. When do the dragons show up? When do the White Walkers attack and we fight them?

But the show was adapting the books with relative consistency at the time. I could forgive minor changes, because I try to keep an open mind to adaptations and give them a shot at telling their own story and adapting to the new medium. So I let it slide. And the dragons or White Walkers showed no signs of coming sooner than the books planned, so it was fine.

However, if there's one impression season 7 has left me with, it's that the lovingly-called D&D (the show's creators) were probably those little boys asking "when do the dragons show up?" They had to bide their time, but as soon as they ran out of books, they made their move to get to "the cool stuff". Or what they perceive as such anyway.

Now, Benioff and Weiss are not completely incompetent storytellers (…I don't think. Yet). So this paragraph above is an oversimplification. They merged characters and plot lines in season five, leading to the horrendous Sansa marrying Ramsay moment, and padded others like Jon's to get everyone roughly on par. Then season 6 worked towards one goal: blowing. Shit. Up.

Literally, but also metaphorically. With the Sept of Baelor, all of Cersei's political enemies were wiped out in one fell swoop. Dorne was taken over and made its moves. The Ironborn were brought back to be relevant and immediately split into two neat factions. Arya completed her training but also retained her identity and went back home. Daenerys breezed her way through gathering all Dothraki under her command, and Meereen's pacification was wrapped up by her and her entourage. Jon was brought back to life and unified the North, and even became King!

For a show that had been able to maintain a dozen plot lines, some of them seemingly unrelated safe for taking place in the same world, Game of Thrones sure did a good clean-up job. Season seven barely even has multiple plot lines running in parallel at all.

And the problem is, this creates a binary, dichotomic story. The framing is clear: in Daenerys and Cersei's fight for the crown, we should root for Daenerys because she's "hope for a better future" while Cersei is ambitious and ruthless and doesn't care for the people. Every major player but Jon has chosen a side, and of course, all the sympathetic characters are in favor of Daenerys. And Jon is all about saving the entire world from the White Walkers. And of course, guess who he goes to ally with early on in the season too. But we'll talk about Jon in a moment.

A Song of Ice and Fire isn't a dichotomic story with clear-cut good and evil. Hell, Game of Thrones wasn't one either. Even the Others/White Walkers aren't evil; they are simply death, which plays into bigger themes about what makes life meaningful. But in this season, we have a clear "Jon and Dany good, Cersei bad, White Walkers worse" thing going on.

This is what I mean when I say it's a different story. Thing is, it's a story I could actually like. For the longest time, my number one favorite books was The Wheel of Time, and in many ways, this season has a similar structure to the later books of that series, with factions being forced to come together and ally against evil. We even have the Cersei-esque antagonistic faction.

Problem is, The Wheel of Time was aiming that way the whole time, and it built up the dynamics so they could end there. While I don't doubt that A Song of Ice and Fire will at some point feature a battle against the Others, I sincerely doubt that the lead-up to it will be as simple as "all the sympathetic characters decide they should fight them together because it's the good thing to do".

Another issue with this polarization of the previously grey morality is that characters drift away from who they were. Daenerys is the most blatant example: the season even has trouble at times reconciling her established character with who they want her to be, so she's torn being hope for the future and being…a woman who wants to conquer a land because she views it as her birthright. The showrunners have apparently forgotten that Daenerys's opposition to slavery was driven from personal experience, not her innate desire for social justice everywhere.

But of course, the worst part of falling into the Good versus Evil cliché fantasy story is that…that story has a very clear protagonist. Which the show didn't have. Or, rather, every time a character looked like the fantasy protagonist, that character died (see Ned and Robb Stark).

So it's baffling, and somewhat infuriating, what is happening with Jon Snow. Not only is he confirmed again (repeatedly) as Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son, as per the popular fan theory. Not only is he King in the North. No, now the showrunners have added that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, y'all. He annulled his previous marriage, and Jon's real name is Aegon Targaryen, and he's the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, even before Daenerys!

Oh, also, because he's now the Bland Male Fantasy Protagonist, he's not just the lost heir to the throne, he also gets a love interest in the form of the prettiest, highest-ranked girl of around the same age available. Also known as Daenerys. Her aunt.

Okay, there's a lot to unpack there, and I won't even touch on the incest as a moral issue because…I don't really care about that? I do care that the showrunners have once more taken Dorne as their victim, though. I mean, that annulled previous marriage is with Elia Martell of Dorne, a woman of color who had two kids with Rhaegar. One of those kids was named Aegon. Their death fueled the Martell hatred towards the Lannisters, but hey! No big deal at all, let's just pretend Rhaegar would just name another son of his the same way.

No, I don't think it's a coincidence that the showrunners are sidelining a woman of color's relationship with a major backstory character in favor of a white woman. I don't think they're actively racist, but I am fairly sure that that decision is motivated by racism. Unless it's motivated by sexism, of course! After all, the other biggest victim in that is Daenerys, since every argument she has for claiming the throne would also give Jon precedence.

There's another problem with Jon, though, regardless of all of that. Specifically, he's…a Mary Sue. Yeah, shocking, I know, the Bland Male Fantasy Protagonist is made into a Mary Sue. Who knew!

So after establishing Daenerys doesn't take well to defiance, Jon shows up, and…defies her, refuses to acknowledge her as his queen, and gets away with it. That last part being the one I take umbrage with, just to be clear. Then he sticks around to try and convince her to help against the White Walkers, and…he does. Even though Daenerys has everything to lose in that process and the show even built a scene in the second-to-last episode of the season where Dany sees the White Walkers and realizes the threat they post?

Oh, but it gets worse. That second-to-last episode is impossible to summarize in how many events should lead to Jon's death, but don't. He makes one mistake after another, survives everything, gets one of Daenerys's dragons killed, and yet not only is she an even stronger ally, but she also falls for him over this.

Just to be clear, the issue here isn't Dany falling in love with Jon. Well, it is, but only in so far as Jon faces no consequences for his errors, and instead, gets his way. Literally: the season ends with Dany renouncing on taking the throne until the White Walkers are dealt with. If there's anything more Mary Sue than doing everything wrong and facing no consequences for it, I…haven't heard of it yet.

It would be bad anywhere, but it's especially bad in a show where a man of honor (Robb Stark) fell in love with a woman and rallied her to his cause once led to him dying. And the thing is, I don't even like that they changed Jeyne Westerling into Talisa, because it completely undermines the tragedy of Robb's character arc (book!Robb dies because honor is his fatal flaw and he had to marry Jeyne for honor; show!Robb dies because he couldn't keep it in his pants). But that change means there's an even starker precedent for why, if this was still the same story, Jon should die.

And yet…this is also exactly what I'm worried won't happen. Because Jon is now our Bland Male Fantasy Protagonist/Mary Sue, the chances of him dying are…fairly low. The issue is: he is now fucking his aunt. While I wouldn't put it past the show to revel in that (they have dabbled in Targaryen exceptionalism…a lot), I think the backlash might force them to kill the ship, even if it hadn't been the plan. So who will die: the Bland Male Fantasy Protagonist, or his love interest who can give him ManPain™ by dying? Yeah, I know where I'm placing my bets. And just for the record I'll be happy if I'm wrong.

Jon is a microcosm of all the things that went wrong. Another example is the Lord of Light, who this season is treated a whole lot like the "one true religion". Characters eventually all start acting like they all serve the Lord, and…do I really need to finish my thoughts or can I just end here and say "Christianity"? Because it sounds like that's what they're going for, and that they're also equating that with being good, and once again erasing all the moral complexities of the various religions in the world of ASOIAF/GOT. Bonus points because Jon was brought back to life by a priestess of the Lord of Light, effectively making him a literal "chosen by god" trope.

This season was…well, unfortunately, it was exactly the sort of hackneyed developments I expected from the show based on the past two seasons. And yet it's also kind of worse? I just really want this to be over. I also really want to come out of this still able to like the books.

It does make me temper my expectations for whenever that Wheel of Time adaptation comes out, though. Is that a good thing, remind me not to overhype myself for other things? I'll take it as a silver lining. Another silver lining being that I can stop thinking about Game of Thrones until…whenever the final season comes out.

#game of thrones #A Song of Ice and Fire #got #asoiaf #david benioff #d.b. weiss #series #TV series #review #reviews #series review #series reviews #st: series reviews

[janiedean]

i don't get why Jon is considered a threat to Dany's throne when they could just get married? obvs they like each other, and they have targ blood to excuse the close relation

... it’s not that he’s considered, it’s that he is just by existing and that is set up to be the main conflict in the ‘good guys’ side - how it’s resolved is another issue, but like... it’s not that they like each other or not, it’s a question of plot elements and setting.

meaning (guys I wanna be objective here, don’t take this as me hating on d/any or anything because I’m not this is just how I feel they shaped up the narrative):

all of dany’s storyline relies heavily on a few key elements both in book and show, as in: a) she’s the last surviving targaryen and no other, b) she feels that the iron throne is her birth legacy as the rebellion wasn’t legitimate/the targs were the legitimate rulers, c) her entire claim on the iron throne relies on recognizing the targs as legit rulers and on the fact that *she* is the last targaryen left;

and as she put it herself in S7, she has bled and suffered for it - now, dany’s character development in S7 (development) was realizing that she actually cared about fighting the white walkers and helping her allies more than her throne for now at least, which is why jon kneeled when she didn’t ask for it (and I’d like to put forward that I actually get that and I don’t think he did something abysmally stupid from his POV) and that was when they tried to sell us the romance angle (which imvho is very badly written and had endless pacing issues but never mind, I’m not going to question jon/erys’s status - it happened, I’m accepting it);

now, as goddamned fucking stupid was the whole ‘JON’S REAL TARG NAME IS AEGON’ writing decision - because that was fucking stupid, even if the show cut off the aegon+joncon storyline aegon still existed within canon, he’s just dead, so rhaegar naming both his male heirs with the same name is dumb as fuck and makes no sense but never mind that -, it should give you red flags that they mean for jon to take on some of the original aegon vi’s storyline in the book because ofc they couldn’t have two possible targaryens alive but nvm;

now: aegon vi book-wise is a legitimate threat to dany’s claim unless he marries her, since he’s rhaegar’s trueborn male heir which immediately makes his claim better than dany’s and when he realized he didn’t want to wait around for her he went to take westeros for himself or tried to - and okay, dany’s about unaware of that rn because she has more pressing concerns, but the existence of a male targaryen heir who is legitimate automatically puts a dent in *her* claim to the throne;

now, do I have to believe that they renamed jon aegon for nothing and gone through the pains of making us know for sure that rhaegar married lyanna and that he’s *trueborn* (ngl I think it’s also book canon except that I don’t think rhaegar disinherited elia’s children, he prob. just married lyanna without divorcing elia) for it to end up in nothing especially when they already set it up in s5 with that speech to theon about being both stark and greyjoy which was obviously foreshadowing for his future conflict about being both stark and targaryen?

I don’t think so.

now, what I want to get at with my theorizing is (VAGUE SPOILERS THAT I KNOW OF ARE MENTIONED BUT IT’S VAGUE AND I DIDN’T VERIFY):

this season they have six episodes - long ones, but still six. given that the last one is gonna be mostly epic battle/finale stuff and from the five spoilers I know there’s another one towards the middle. This means there’s roughly four episodes of Other Stuff Left and honestly, there has to be a conflict somewhere or the narrative doesn’t go on;

last season tied up the house stark stuff in the sense that as badly written as it was, LF is out of the way, sansa/arya/bran are on the same side again (regardless of how shitty bran’s written but nvm) and pretty much signed off cersei’s political suicide because she has tied her survival to euron bringing her the golden company but theon is obviously offing euron to get back his sister and taking that from her and that’s gonna happen early on, so like.... she’s basically dragging dead narrative weight while going around king’s landing and I seriously doubt she’s surviving midseason, and on top of that there’s no conflict to be had in KL with the fact that she’s the only valuable main player still there, everyone else has left;

we of course have the question of WHAT WILL JAIME DO but that spoiler pic pretty much solved it - he’s going around wearing robb’s old armor or an armor that looks like robb’s, everything points to a confrontation with bran + resolution of issues that brings to him pledging with the starks - the starks, not dany;

at that point there’s literally no other major - major - conflict left to explore that doesn’t touch the question of Who Is Getting That Throne And How It Fits With The Current Situation;

now: taking for granted that jon/erys like each other and they’re most likely in honeymoon phase when they get to WF, the point is that a) they don’t know they’re related, b) he thinks she’s a trueborn queen and he’s only there because people elected him and she thinks he’s an illegitimate son with good skills and good morals. now, while she probably wouldn’t give two fucks about bedding a relative if she thought she’d marry viserys growing up and IT’S TARGARYENS, he might find it a tad more objectionable since he was not brought up with the idea that marrying your relatives was acceptable outside of targaryens (guys incest is a taboo in westeros too) and telling him he’s r’s son won’t magically change his attitude in that sense, so that is one conflict in itself...

guys: jon’s mere existence is a threat to dany’s claim. even if he doesn’t do anything about it and he assures her he can’t care less, he’s still her brother’s trueborn legitimate MALE offspring who not only has targ blood on one side, but has *stark* blood on the other side, and given that the north has tried to secede for the entire series and that he has both stark and targ heritage (guys...... again, a song of ice and fire = a song of jon snow), even if he doesn’t care, other people could see him as a better option than daenerys because he’s from westeros, he knows the customs, he has good military experience that doesn’t rely on dragons to win battles and they’d trust him way more than an outsider who has never been to westeros and comes back reclaiming it because it’s her birthright and who doesn’t abide by westerosi customs - and mind that the tarlys being burned alive when they could have gone to the wall was exactly to make that point. like, it’s the same issue catelyn had with him - regardless of whether he would have wanted to usurp his siblings (we know he wouldn’t have, she didn’t), ned having a supposed *male* son who looked like him and was robb’s age while all her male children looked like her and not like ned was in itself a threat to her children and their inheritance, which is 60% of the reasons why cat hated jon (the other 40% being that she thought ned betrayed her not even a year after they married);

like, that’s an issue that would only get solved if they marry and have children and she chooses to trust him to not make a coup, but even with that... a jon/erys marriage as things are now (with jon being kitn and ned’s bastard son as far as people know) would make her the most important part of it and he’d be more of a consort than king, but with jon being rhaegar’s, either he has the title or they share it equally;

now: dany has to have character development. everyone has to or shit doesn’t happen. jon’s main issue is gonna be reconciling stark and targ heritage (and tbqh I don’t see jon embracing the targ part so readily - guys he’s wanted to be a stark all his life and he grew up with them, let’s be real). dany is obviously going to revolve around the following points at least imvho:a) how is she going to react finding out that she’s not the last targaryen left?b) how is she going to react finding out that the other targaryen around has a better claim than her/has her same birthright?c) can she get used to westeros’s culture/customs and learn them if she has to be queen?d) can she bend her own principles and compromise enough to realize that she can’t rule just through dragons because you might *conquer* with them but you can’t *rule* with them as we’ve seen with the tarlys?now, all of that is obv. up in the air and I have no issues whether it goes left or right - honestly it’s so far in my scale of ‘stuff I care for in this show’ that as long as I see jaime in robb’s armor all the time I’ll be fine, but...

tldr: if the answer to those questions is, in order, ‘she’ll take it well, she’ll vouch for sharing power and it won’t impact on their relationship, yes and yes’ then congrats, we have positive character development and most likely canon targ restoration with jon/erys as endgame. if the answer is ‘she’ll take it badly, she’ll see jon as a potential threat regardless and demand that he renounce it or smth, no and no’, then congratulations, we have negative character development and the conflict turns from dany + starks allied against the white walkers and cersei to a dynasty conflict during which people will have to take sides and in that context tyrion would be caught in the middle because he’s dany’s advisor but on the other side there’s people he genuinely likes/he’s friendly with, the whole question of his marriage to sansa and his damned brother, so he’d have to pick sides in that sense; 

now, it could also be that the answer is no but then she changes her mind and we still have positive character development after the negative - possibly, she’s a main so she’ll get screentime same as jon - but like, that is imo the most obvious and glaring plot conflict that has to come out of what they wrote until now regardless of whether it’s good or bad writing. and fine, it’s been bad lately, but nvm that, the outcome has to be one regardless of how they get there.

like: I don’t doubt that there can be a positive resolution, but there has to be conflict or nothing happens this season if the jon parentage reveal ends in ‘ah well we can just get married in episode two’, and given dany’s in-text character faults that she has same as everyone else (more or less, given how the show’s written), this one plot point is going to have weight and it’s going to create conflict for her because it basically dismantles the entirety of her claim on the throne that she’s brought on since the end of S1 and it’s too narratively important to dismiss it on account of ‘they like each other and they can just get married’. they can, but at the end, not at the beginning, and she has to fully confront it and come out stronger for it if you want a positive development and not further stagnation.

thanks for coming to my speculation ted talk *shrug* XD

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