#bryke salt

[firelxdykatara]

I actually really don't want to hear anything about how 'overcoming misogyny' is a major theme in Avatar: the Last Airbender when "The Fortuneteller" exists and the ultimate thesis of that episode, in the context of the show as a whole, is that if a girl is in unrequited love, it's cringe and kinda pathetic and she should move on cause the boy will never want her; but if a boy is in unrequited love, he just needs to be patient and wait for the girl he wants to come around cause he's a hero and how could she not?

Its secondary thesis is that you need to make your own destiny and not rely on someone else's words to tell you what your life has in store...if you're a BOY; if you're a girl then what the fake psychic told you will actually determine your ENTIRE life even if you are only fourteen years old.

Meng's existence really would have been the final nail in the coffin for Kataang even if the arc of the ship in Book 3 weren't so abhorrent to me personally (sorry but I have higher standards for romantic relationships than 'the girl is completely oblivious to the boy's advances for the entire show, is actively distressed when those advances become more pronounced, and then her feelings are resolved completely off screen between episodes so that the boy can get his prize in the end')--because her relationship with Aang is deliberately paralleled to Aang's relationship with Katara, and yet Meng, the one-off character, learns a lesson which Aang is quite literally told he must learn in the Book 2 finale... but he never ever does.

Aang has an entire season to internalize that lesson and come to terms with it--that maybe she doesn't have feelings for me and that's ok because I still love and care about her and that's enough--but he never even comes close. His possessive attachment to her gets worse, culminates in the EIP kiss, and Katara just capitulates because we're meant to believe that she went through the entire development of her romantic feelings for the love of her life off-screen between the penultimate episode and the four-part finale.

This was misogynistic even in 2008, and the idea that the show truly had anything meaningful to say about sexism/misogyny when uncritical and unchecked misogyny was baked into its very DNA (assuming we're meant to agree with Brychael that Kataang is 'in the DNA of the show) is just laughable to me. When it comes to 'overcoming misogyny' the show doesn't actually say anything more profound than 'girls can fight too!!!!!'

And that wasn't good enough for me then, it certainly isn't good enough for me today.

#atla #k*taang salt #salt for ts #bryke salt #atla salt #really just sick of the notion that atla was actually great about misogyny and it's so terrible if the live action does away with some of i #atla actually kind of sucked about misogyny for anyone who is older than a young child and more capable of reading between the lines #long post

[the-badger-mole]

While a part of mine wants nothing to do with the upcoming atla movies, another part of me wants to see them butcher Zuko, and flop so bad and see if, finally, that manages to destroy the bryke pedestal (*insert that one pic of please god let that happen because it would be so fucking funny*)

Honestly, I don't think Bryke are doing as well as people think. What have they really done that's gotten any attention? I know they're still doing the comics thing, but I barely hear about them anymore. Like I don't even hear people complaining about them anymore. I'm not claiming the gift of clairvoyance or anything, but I think this movie will be their last real attempt before they finally let this franchise die and leave it to the fandom. I am further predicting this will be another excuse to live vicariously through Aang, and the story will suffer for it. Aang will neither learn nor grow from his experiences, and his dumbest decisions will be lauded by the other characters as the height of wisdom. This movie is a transparent attempt to draw attention from the live action show they were dropped from quit. Who knows, maybe this movie flopping will be a good thing for them, and they will finally come up with another idea after 20 years of beating their first, and only idea to a pulp and then griding it into sausage meat.

#atla #anti bryke #bryke salt #atla movie

[yourhighness6]

Quite honestly I have to say that I actually really like Aang. Him being a happy-go-lucky, sweet kid is extremely important to the story, as bringing back a sense of fun to the people who have been experiencing war for so long is basically his narrative purpose. There's a purpose behind his personality, just as there should be in any narrative. However, I think anyone who engages critically with media has to aknowledge that he makes some bad decisions, especially when it comes to his treatment of Katara at the end of season three. Although I would personally argue that this is sexist writing and not congruent with the Aang we have seen for the entirety of the show leading up to DoBS (although people are also right when they point out the amount of emotional labor his position as the grand hero of the story and as a rather immature kiddo put on Katara), these are still mistakes that the character canonically makes. His treatment of Katara in previous seasons is still toxic behavior that I would argue is actually congruent with his character. The mistakes he makes throughout the series in other areas, such as hiding their father's location from Sokka and Katara, are canon decisions the character makes that are also definitely congruent with his character. But for whatever reason, a lot of the fandom refuses to recognize this. Most Aang/ Kat@ang stans put Aang on a pedestal and argue that nothing he's done throughout the series is exactly wrong. Nothing was wrong in his treatment of Katara, and if it is, he's naturally extremely sorry about it and should be forgiven despite the fact that we see no expression of guilt or remorse from him for, what I believe is the most glaring example, the EIP noncon kiss. So again, to restate, I don't hate Aang. I've never hated Aang. I like Aang. But unfortunately, because of the fandom representation of him, I have no interest in engaging in fan content about him. I have no interest in talking about the good things he does or the great decisions he makes outside of his decision not to kill Ozai, which, although greatly contested in the fandom, I completely agree with because of the narrative significance of Aang choosing to stick to his beliefs and the overarching theme of mercy, which we also see built up in many previous episodes such as TSR. Aang is the character that I would argue has been corrupted the most by the fandom. He's either viciously hated or hoisted into a position of perfection and frankly, I can deal with neither. Aang is a good character, but we should be able to have conversations critical of his actions. Aang is an extremely flawed and relatively underdeveloped character, but he is by no means evil incarnate, and I just wish that more people could recognize that both of those statements should and do coexist.

#atla #aang #aang critical #anti kataang #technically #anti bryke #fandom salt #anti aang stans #anti kataang stans

[nono-bunny]

One thing I love and appreciate about the Zutara fandom is that a lot of us also refuse to leave the one GOOD canon couple out to dry like canon did. Sokka is already Katara's brother, and thus it's so easy plot-wise when weaving a Zutara story to just! Make him and Suki get married, either off screen or make a big thing of it... Which like, either is a grace and peacefulness canon just fucking REFUSED (and seemingly continue to) give to these two

#avatar the last airbender #atla #zutara #anti bryke #atla salt #atla critical #sukki #sukka

[theweeklydiscourse]

It’s a bit funny when ATLA fans who are so deeply attached to the show blame the fandom for the problematic elements of the actual text. They’ll say: “You missed EVERY message that the writers included! I can’t believe that you’re unable to understand the deliberate messages woven into the show!” And then the “message” in question will be a flaw they noticed in the text, an unresolved narrative issue, or an instance of the writers’ biases seeping through the story.

I just wish that certain fans would consider the idea that perhaps the writers were not as all-knowing as they thought they were and that those gaps manifested in the story. Blaming fandom for misinterpreting the story (according to your own interpretation of it) is so ridiculous and indicative of the reluctance to critique a beloved childhood show. ATLA was ahead of it’s time in a number of ways, but we have to stop acting like it is beyond reproach.

#sometimes your nostalgic childhood show isn’t as woke as you remember and might be problematic in certain areas #it’s not the fandom’s fault that we are engaging with the text that was presented to us. Some people’s issues with the fandom are really #just issues with the text itself. Like with Zuko’s supposed *mocking of Aang’s dead culture* They’ll complain that fans never address that #but if it is truly an instance in the story that you find insensitive #shouldn’t you take it up with the text? considering that the text is the thing that left it unresolved? #why is the fandom your priority when it comes to criticism? It sounds like the issue lies in the way the story was written as opposed to fan #reception of it #avatar the last airbender #anti bryke #atla fandom discourse #atla fandom salt #atla fandom critical #pro zutara #pro zuko #atla discourse #atla #fandom discourse

[broadwaybalogna]

Me Screaming: AANG SHOULD’VE KILLED OZAI

*Even louder* IT RUINED HIS WHOLE DYNAMIC OF BEING A CHILD FORCED INTO WAR AND DOING THINGS HE NEVER WANTED TO DO AND ITS OVERALL BORING HE GOT A MAGICAL SOLUTION THE LAST MOMENT

#atla aang #aang #avatar aang #anti bryke #bryke critical #atla #avatar the last airbender #atla salt #and don’t tell me “oh it’s just a kids show #it’s still stupid this happened #people were actually able to relate to Aang #because so many children are forced to grow up at young ages #and be forced to make life altering decisions #but ooohhhh noooooo he just NEEDS to get a magical solution that fixes everything #anti aang

[starlight-bread-blog]

When a there is an outside factor building up to romantic leads not ending up together, while also wrecking the pacing of the ship...

And the red herring's being toxic but the writers just hope you pick up on the vibe without holding anyone accountable...

Is when it's time to check your bias.

#adrigami #pro zutara #zutara #anti adrienette #anti ladynoir #anti love square #miraculous critical #ml criticism #anti mlb #anti ml #mlb critical #ml critical #mlb salt #miraculous ladybug critical #anti miraculous ladybug #anti starco #pro tomstar #tomstar #tom x star #anti miraculous #miraculous ladybug salt #star vs critical #anti svtfoe #svtfoe critical #svtfoe salt #anti bryke #anti kataang #anti thomas astruc #atla critical #zutara was robbed

[balanceoflightanddark]

Kuvira and Bryke's Problem with Moral Ambiguity

I will be honest with you...I really like Kuvira.

She is probably one of my favorite characters from Legend of Korra. I like her design. I like a lot of the ideas behind her. And I think Zelda Williams did a great job with the character. So I can understand why Bryke wanted to do something different with her and try to redeem her.

Here's the problem. I love Kuvira...but she's also indicative of one of the show's biggest problems. Mainly the inability to commit to a morally ambiguous conflict.

Again, the whole point of Kuvira's character was that she wasn't a wholly irredeemable monster. That her methods, while heavy handed, weren't entirely in the wrong and her heart was in the right place. And we do see evidence of that early on with her forces giving relief to billages, stamping out bandits, and outing corrupt officials. Heavy handed and early warning signs sure, but nothing too over the top.

Then they made her into a power hungry dictator.

Yeah. Kind of hard to sell her as sympathetic when she takes imagery from real life oppressive and fascist political parties and governments.

Sad thing is, Kuvira here is not the exception to this. Throughout The Legend of Korra, we are presented with many antagonistic groups that are responding to some injustice or moral qualm which doesn't paint the current status quo the heroes are defending in a good light. Non-bender discrimination led to Amon and the Equalists. Unalaq was a response to mankind losing touch with the Spirit World. The Red Lotus were spurned by corruption in high places. And Kuvira was restoring order to a broken Earth Kingdom full of anarchy. It's clear that Bryke intended for all of these groups and characters to have some kind of point to generate moral ambiguity. Asking whether or not Korra and Co were truly in the right.

Yet when it came time to deliver, the antagonists were almost always portrayed as being in the wrong and often were portrayed in a way that makes it difficult for the audience to truly sympathize with them. The Equalists and the Red Lotus become terrorists. Amon is a bender with flimsy reasonings. Unalaq literally fuses with the Avatar equivalent of Satan. And again, Kuvira becomes a dictator. While their points are given some credence, the characters themselves always become a final boss for the heroes to triumphantly defeat. Which...muddies the message since it becomes difficult to see the villains' argument when they're treated the way they are.

Now admittedly, it is difficult to write a character like this. Balancing out the character's reasonable and sympathetic traits with the need to be an opposing force to the protagonists who audiences are normally predisposed to root for. So the question remains: how do you go about finding this equilibrium?

While I'm not a professional writer, I can think of at least two good methods. The first is allowing the antagonist to do genuinely good things that seems at odds with their position. This could include a concern for civilians or their comrades, limiting their violence, or throwing themselves in the line of danger for the sake of others. Kuvira does demonstrate this a few times with sending relief to civilians who need it or choosing to face down the Avatar herself rather than ordering her men to do it.

The second is actually giving a concrete reason for why the antagonist is escalating things. Maybe the situation is just that bad where the antagonist feels the need to escalate or is a response to something that the heroes did. Perhaps the antagonist's grievances are legitimate and they have a solid reason to fight. Again, this is explored with Prince Wu's incompetence and the attempted assassination on Kuvira's life by Suyin. While her methods are heavy handed, you could see why she may need to employ them.

The foundations for a solid character are there. If they expanded on that, we could've had a fairly compelling conflict where neither side is entirely in the right nor are they in the wrong.

And then they introduced re-education camps and had Kuvira invent the Avatar equivalent of an atomic bomb.

Uh...hate to be that guy, but why the hell is Kuvira sympathetic again? Especially when other villains who did far less evil get crapped on while she gets a redemption arc in the comics?

glares at what they did with Azula

...I'm sorry but no. Korra wouldn't have ever turned out to be a fascist And trying to say the villain can be redeemed because they're like the hero raises so many flags for the franchise as a whole that I'm surprised they didn't do the same with Ozai. What? He's who Zuko would've ended up as if he went too far.

I get what they were getting at with Kuvira. I really do. And with better writing, maybe she could've been that character I mentioned. The groundworks are all there. But the problem they ran in was consistency and commitment. They failed to keep her sympathy and anti-villain status consistent by making her too horrible to properly feel for. And they never actually committed to fostering this morally ambiguous conflict.

Trust me, I'm not knocking against Kuvira and her fans. I'm really not. I understand the appeal. I even think a lot of her fans have better interpretations and ideas than Bryke (trust me, Kuvira has some pretty good fanfics out there). But if they wanted to redeem who we saw in the series, we needed more than a single comic trilogy. Especially when other characters don't even get a chance at that.

#kuvira #lok critical #lok salt #i guess #kuvira meta #anti bryke #anti lok comics

[waterbenderkat]

Avatar Studios this, Avatar Studios that.

Give me the next Yangchen novel, please.

#avatar #avatar: the last airbender #a:tla #zutara #anti bryke #avatar studios salt #anti avatar studios #yangchen #avatar yangchen #the dawn of yangchen #waterbenderkat

[blinday]

For the last time, Zutarians, DONT. BASH. AZULA. PUT IT DOWN! WOH! PUT. IT. DOWN.

yes... Good baby. Now, remeber what I've told ya: "Katara is the most compassionate person in the gang, therefore she would not hate or judge Azula".

'Kay?

And no, we do not need to hate Aang to like Zutara. Ok? Ok??? That's why our reputation is tainted! And Mai is NOT a hateful villain ok?????

Repeat with me:

"We shall not despise a character just because it's between my ship". Fair?

Okay. Bye.

#anti zutara #but not really #zutara #zuko #katara #azula #azula deserves better #katara deserves better #zutara fandom salt #Mai #Aang #anti Aang bashing #Most of his flaws are Bryke's incompetence in writing #and Mai is just underdeveloped #anti Mai bashing

[liliesforeveryfandom]

I find it interesting how many avid Aang stans will defend his portrayal in LOK with his children because he’s not perfect and good people ≠ good parents, and y’know what? I agree. Aang was a terrible, because he never changed for the better in the first place

#anti lok #anti bryke #fandom salt

[firelxdykatara]

to this day it's astounding to me that bryke claimed they liked asami too much to have her be an equalist.

like what was the thought process there?

"we like her too much to do anything fun or interesting with her character! she can just be there to drive and look pretty."

it's like they completely forgot that one of the reasons zuko is far and away the fan favorite character from atla is that he had some astounding character growth that began with him as a villain. it's honestly just further proof of their incompetence, because they had the amazing makings of a redemption arc on their hands and just squandered it.

i might have actually shipped korrasami if it had the sauce some decent e2l framing would've given it, rather than asami being the poor put upon girl constantly framed as the victim of the stupid love triangle shit.

#asami sato #every day i think about how juicy equalist!asami would've been #she could've had an actual character arc #there could've been more to her than a great hair routine #sigh sigh siiiiiiiiigh #lok critical #lok salt #bryke salt #atla

[the-badger-mole]

You know what the dynamic between Katara and Aang reminds me of? A babysitter and the kid she babysits who has a crush on her and thinks she comes over because she likes hanging out with him, and it just happens to be whenever his parents (guardian in this case with Gyatso) has to work late or something. Meanwhile the babysitter has a whole ass boyfriend, and if she ever brings the boyfriend with her babysitting, then the kid like flips out over the "betrayal"

Oh, absolutely. With Aang being such an obvious wish-fulfilment self-insert, I'm convinced that Mike or Bryan (or both) had an unrequited crush on a babysitter, or tutor, or the older sister of a friend. Everything that happened with Kataang- right down to Katara deciding out of nowhere that she's into Aang, despite their last few encounters being unpleasant because of Aang, that she likes him now- screams Nice Guy fantasy. Apologize for how he treated her? Have an actual honest conversation where her feelings get a chance to be heard? Why bother with that when we all know the Nice Guy has to get the girl, regardless of what she actually feels about it?

#atla #anti aang #anti kataang #got a little ranty towards the end. #oh well #bryke salt #THE YEAR OF CONTENT!!!!

[burst-of-iridescent]

the news of the movie and the general fandom being such a hostile place fuelled my need for salt: why does everyone assume that the zk fandom despises the canon ships because “we want canon so bad.” we don’t! bryke can keep their nasty canon! the reason why zks despise the canon ships (kat/aang and mai/ko; sukka you did nothing wrong and are perfect) is because we HATE what those ships did to all of the characters involved, particularly katara and zuko. in fact, i would have liked - or at least tolerated - k/a if it was actually well-written and not incel-driven. like only on atla do you have a main canon ship where you have some great introductory elements in place and lots of potential, only to fuck it up so magnificently like bryke did.

with that said, i cannot absolutely say that i would ever respect mai/ko. there’s no way people could write it “well” and still have mai and zuko be the same characters as they were in atla. mai/ko is a dynamic where two people bring out the absolute worst qualities in each other and their only solution to their problems is to make out lmao. it’s like you said; they were doomed to fail from the start. and that movie will likely erase all of their issues, or make the worst possible dynamic ever with them having even MORE issues but magically ignoring them.

you took the words right out of my mouth, anon.

it's hilarious to me that people think zutara shippers are somehow "jealous" of kat.aang and mai.ko and hate them for "getting what we want" when honestly? i feel sorry for kat.aang and mai.ko shippers. it must genuinely suck to have your ship get so utterly obliterated by canon and have to defend it anyway out of some misguided loyalty to bryke. we all know why they always default to the "kat.aang and mai.ko are canon so we won!!" argument instead of, you know, actually presenting logical arguments in favour of their ship being better than zutara (because they have none). atla fandom would be a lot better off if kat.aang and mai.ko shippers admitted that there are major problems with their ships instead of pretending they're perfect and hating on zutara out of jealousy.

had kat.aang and mai.ko actually been written properly, i would've had no problems shipping them alongside zutara. i, and many other zk shippers, don't hate kat.aang and mai.ko because we love zutara ‐ we hate kat.aang and mai.ko AND love zutara. even if i weren't a zk shipper, i would still hate zuko and katara ending up with m.ai and a.ang because it's just bad writing, plain and simple.

but like you said, there would've been no way to make mai.ko well‐written unless they completely overhauled mai's character. m.ai and zuko are, at their core, fundamentally incompatible. extreme apathy and extreme empathy are not character traits that can ever work together unless one or both characters changed themselves ‐ something m.ai appeared unwilling to do, and something zuko should not do, because it would've been an extreme regression for his character. the entire problem with mai.ko was that it was set up to fail from the beginning, because it was a narrative tool to show the audience ‐ and zuko himself ‐ that he made the wrong choice in CoD and no longer belonged in the fire nation. getting them back together in the last ten minutes of the show is like fixing a sinking ship with scotch tape. the damage has already been done, and it's too late to take it back.

if bry.ke knows what's good for them, they'll let zuko stay single in the adult gaang movie or at least minimize the number of scenes mai.ko have together, but i doubt it. god forbid the zutara shippers get ideas, amirite?

#asks #anon asks #i thoroughly enjoyed the salt in my inbox anon please feel free to do it again #zutara #anti kataang #anti maiko #anti bryke #also sorry i haven't replied to asks besties i got covid and i've been dying for like a week #but i'm a lot better now so i am clearing these asks come hell or high water

[sarcastic-halfling-princess]

I’m taking Bryke leaving Netflix’s ATLA series with a grain of salt.

They have NO room to judge any changes Netflix makes after what they did in Legend of Korra.

(I haven’t forgotten Beginnings part 1&2)

#atla netflix #bryke #anti-​legend of korra #anti-lok #anti-bryke #they got no moral high ground #they ANNIHILATED the lore

[hayleysayshay]

Okay so I watched a TikTok where a ‘Netflix insider’ said that the reason Bryke left Netla is that they were uninterested in remaking the original scene by scene and wanted to make drastic changes and make something new. I’m taking this TikTok with a massive grain of salt as it’s very unsourced.

Honestly I could buy this, since the final version of the show we got stays pretty close to the cartoon. There is nothing particularly objectionable in the show so far, it just feels subtly bad.

Now I am pretty uninterested in an adaptation with major changes to the characters as the characters are pretty much perfect in my eyes. However I wonder if Bryke wanted to make a version that was closer to the tech-punk vision they came up with first. With robots and stuff. Like with their tastes in the Legend of Korra i wouldn’t be surprised.

I can imagine Bryke saying ‘okay let’s do something weird’ and Netflix said ‘no we want an accurate adaptation the fans will like. We’re not here to be weird and artistic.’

I’m not saying their version would be good but it’d be interesting to see

#Bryke really put a giant robot in TLOK they love that shit #netla #Bryke #this is not anti Bryke #atla #avatar