#cinaja talks about writing

[cinaja]

I feel like many books just miss out on a lot of potential when including characters who are ruthless/willing to do whatever is necessary for their goal. Usually, it's really only just "I would kill for it" and "I would die for it" and this is just BORING, partially because it's been done so many times and partially because it often isn't the option with the most emotional impact. It just lacks punch!

The thing about a character being willing to kill for something is... it just rarely seems like a big thing because most of these characters don't have a problem with killing! Especially in fantasy, characters in fighting professions are very popular, and for such characters, killing is normal. It's no big thing. Now, dying is a bit of a different matter because it is more often treated as a big thing, even for characters who live with the threat of death (like soldiers). But it also just quickly feels cheap. If it happens out of the situation, fine, that works more often (like a split-second decision to jump in front of danger for your friends, or take the suicide mission, or stay back to distract the enemy). But when there is lots of run-up and it's all the character nobly sacificing themselves, going like a lamb to the slaughter etc, it feels ridiculous and over-the-top more often than not.

The prime example for this is Aelin from tog. She is very much sold as a hero who is ready to do anything to save her country. She's willing to kill for it... but then, she is an assassin. Murder is her reaction to the slightest inconvenience, so it hardly seems like a big thing. She is also willing to die and go through bodily harm for it, but more often than not, that just seems over-dramatic. Her being willing to die to forge the lock is all fine, but it's just so over-dramatic it is difficult to take seriously. It has this whole "lamb to the slaughter" aspect that just slips into melodrama really quickly.

There are far better and more interesting options! Especially for your typical ruthless, brash, slightly arrogant fighter hero. Just giving up something they really wanted (that isn't their life) to reach their greater goal. Or, instead of dying themselves, being willing to sacrifice a loved one (hardly ever done - the protagonist always gets to save the love interest AND defeat the villain - and therefore 100x more impactful). Or, especially for proud/arrogant protagonists, being willing to humiliate themselves or beg someone they hate for help/forgiveness. Or, for revenge-driven heroes, being willing to let the villain get away unscathed to achieve their larger goal.

Back to Aelin, who COULD have had some of those aspects but never did, which really made that entire "ready to do anything" narrative bc "anything" now seems reduced to "kill people and maybe die". She isn't willing to give up her throne when the lords demand it. She never once bothers to show respect to possible allies (the lords, chaol's father, rolfe), much less explains herself (the lords) or apologizes (the lords&rolfe). She comes close to choosing other things over revenge ONCE (when she decides to use the power she had planned to kill Maeve with to stop that flood), but honestly, with the stakes in that situation, it's less "ready to do whatever necessary, even give up her revenge" and more "not a complete asshole who lets thousands of people who are fighting for her die and also loses an important army in the process". But that aside, she never once chooses the nonviolent option or puts her revenge second or anything like that, and not only does that make her seem far too violent and generally rather unpleasant (and, at times, incompetent and/or callous) it also really dimishes the whole "ready to do anything for Terrasen" thing the book is trying to convey. For her character specifically, I think grovelling to get an alliance or letting go of revenge or anything like that would have had 100x more impact than her being willing to die.

#just. please. more varied ways to show characters are willing to do whatever it takes #if it's just killing and dying it's boring and has little impact #and i probably won't even believe they are willing to do ANYTHING #books #tropes #anti sjm #anti tog #anti aelin #cinaja talks about writing

[herpowerisdeath]

You may have talked about this before but it really bothers me how all of the main humans in the cast (Nesta, Feyre, Elain) were forcibly transformed into fae, by fae. All of the characters of a historically oppressed and enslaved species were transformed, against their will (including Feyre), into the same species that oppressed and enslaved them. The casual way slavery is discussed by the fae bothers me too, like the fact that some fae helped the humans makes up for all that history.

I don’t think I have a full post about this subject, because honestly I’m not having much free time right now to write and put my thoughts in a reasonable way around here. But I’ve reblogged this post by the dear @cinaja that adress this matter, mostly by Feyre’s actions and thoughts. 

I think that having Feyre’s point of view along the books really helped to keep fae “on our good graces”, because Feyre has always been in love with a fae male. We have maybe 1/3 of acotar in which she thinks by herself and then she is under influence first from Tamlin, second from Rhysand. It’s very natural for her to accept the way of living her lovers have, unless it reaches really high breaking points (aka Tamlin locking her inside his house). 

I feel that part of the criticism towards Nesta also includes the fact that she is not a Fae lover in an instand, as Feyre became. Nesta sticks with her own evaluation of things and people and, honestly, what is it in Velaris to convince her that Fae aren’t that bad? Beauty? Food? She had good things after Tamlin gave her family a state and money. She saw how awful Fae can be by herself fighting the war. Worst than that, she was used and turned into High Fae to hurt other Fae, meaning that the Faes continue to find themselves better than humans, alllowed to used them as they pleased. 

Lucien, which is a more reasonable character in the series, gets surprised by Feyre’s prejudice against humans in ACOFAS, if you remember. I think this is another sign that her point of view is not exaclty reliable.

I’ll try to post about it soon, when I have the time to check some scenes again and use the quotes I find more expressive. 

Thank you very much for you ask and I hope you can check the post I linked!

#answers #I didn't check my english; meaning that mistakes are probably happening #elain archeron #nesta archeron #feyre archeron #tamlin #rhysand #lucien #acofas #acowar #acotar #acomaf

[cinaja]

Amongst the many, many (ya) books that focus on love as a main, or at least important theme, what I find truly disappointing and what has caused me to grow really tired of it is the lack of variety. Love is a really vast, fascinating theme and you can do tons of cool things with it! Yet somehow, many ya books manage to be completely boring about it to the point where I find myself wishing they'd just stop writing about it altogether because they always have the same, one-dimensional take. It's always "love is the most important thing" or "love makes everything possible" and the "love" in question is almost always romantic love, usually between the protagonist and someone they have known for only a few months.

There are so many other directions to take the story and other variations of the theme to explore! For one, why does it always have to be romantic love? Friendships and family relationships are so interesting as well, and usually, they can offer lots of conflict without any of the over-the-top drama people like to add to romantic relationships. Or if it has to be romance, how about an already-established relationship where the conflict is about the struggles of staying together? Or (especially in ya) write short relationships, or crushes that never even turn into a relationship, because I can guarantee you that that's what most teenagers actually experience. (Seriously, who finds their "soulmate" at 16/17/18?)

That being said, I also think the genre could really use some critical discussions of this "(romantic) love is the most important thing, love makes everything possible, we'll be in love forever" idea. Idk, write one of these earth shattering, "we'll be together forever and do anything for each other" romances only to have them break up after a few months because they've only known each other for a few weeks before getting together and realize that they don't work out after all. Let a character choose their friend over their romantic partner because they've known the friend for years, of course they will priorize them over someone they've only known for a month or so. Instead of priorizing love over everything, have people priorize morals. Have a character break up with their partner or end a friendship because they realize their moral views are incompatible. Or have one character turn into an asshole/develop negative traits and the other break up with them for it even though they used to love them because sometimes, people change so that they are no longer compatible/the relationship becomes unhealthy and then, breaking up is the right thing to do. (Seriously, I feel like many people misunderstand the idea of "I'll love you no matter what". It means "I'll love you no matter our circumstances" NOT "I'll love you no matter how you change/what horrible things you do/how you treat me". It's too often presented as the latter and that idea is unhealthy af.) Or have a character be faced with the choice "save your loved one or save the world/country/whatever" only for them to choose the world/country/whatever because this is the right thing to do and they know their partner would want them to.

Also. Please, especially if you are writing a theme centred around romantic love, but also in general, consider asexual and aromantic characters. Don't make "they don't experience/have no interest in romantic love" into a main trait for your villain. Don't write romance as the most important relationship anyone can have and place it above platonic love. Include characters who are happily single, who have no interest in relationships.

#ya literature #writing advice #sort of #cinaja talks about writing

[cinaja]

Me: I'll write 5k words/chapter, that seems like a good length.

Also me: *writes twice as much bc I once again had too much plot to squeeze into one chapter and am too stubborn to split it up*

#cinaja talks about before the wall #cinaja talks about writing

[cinaja]

K, L, M, and D for Before the Wall.

K: What’s the angstiest idea you’ve ever come up with?

I think I generally tend to come up with a lot of angst lol. The angstiest... I think possibly an AU for Before the Wall where Miryam doesn't get resurrected at the end of the war and stays dead, but gets resurrected 500 years later by Hybern. I think that would be peak angst because it would have 1) Drakon having to live on with both Miryam and Jurian dead for 500 years 2) Miryam getting resurrected in the completely wrong time only to be thrown straight into another war after (in her mind) just winning the last one and 3) her likely thinking that Drakon and everyone else also died during that last battle because that's all anyone knows, and thinking she failed at the one thing she always wanted (saving her people) and got everyone killed. It would also make things between her and Jurian 100% angstier bc in that situation, he is the asshole who got her resurrected against her will.

L: What’s the weirdest AU you’ve ever come up with?

Hm, I don't usually come up with very concrete AUs? I like playing around with stories and coming up with alternative plotlines, but they don't generally have really clear plots or are weird. But anyways, I'll just pick this idea I had a while ago that really isn't weird at all, but it's funny. Basically, I was thinking about what the characters from Before the Wall would be in a modern world, and I thought that Drakon would probably be... just a normal, nice college student studying social sciences. But then, I remembered that in this entirely theoretical modern AU, his family would, like, have a nuclear bomb hidden somewhere on a private island somewhere, and would also have tried to make him marry a mafia boss, and idk, I just found the idea hilarious.

M: Got any premises on the back burner that you’d care to share?

I have a Very Theoretical Rewrite for acosf that is a variation of my older "Nesta leaves the Night Court and goes to Cretea" idea. Includes: the human queens actually beeing the good guys (I don't write human villains, you see), Feyre getting an intervention and being taken away from Rhysand and Nesta joining Miryam, Drakon, Jurian, Lucien and Vassa at Competently Dealing With The Problems Rhys Is Too Stupid For.

As for original works, I have a vague idea that boils down to "dead girl and goddess go on a journey to save the world", but that's still in the idea stages.

D: Is there a song or a playlist to associate with Before the Wall?

I usually have many songs that kind of remind me of my writing (be it certain lyrics or just the General Feeling). But for Before the Wall and since it's based on the Exodus story, I kind of like the soundtrack from Prince of Egypt. The lyrics don't always fit (for example the entire relationship between Moses and the Pharao is Weird in a Before the Wall context), but especially the plagues song really fits.

#asks #cinaja talks about before the wall #cinaja talks about writing #lady-of-the-spirit #thanks for the ask😊

[cinaja]

I feel like I've been sidelining Mor as a protagonist in Before the Wall a lot lately, and it really annoys me bc I really like her as a character (as well as her relationship with Andromache), but the problem is, I don't really know how to include her more? Because for Mor, there would be lots of possibilities for personal development as well as her relationship with Andromache, but what her story is missing is plot. I could, of course, write her arc just about the personal development, but this story is already way longer than I had planned, so I am hesitant about having an entire pov that adds little to the actual plot. The other option would be to draw up an entire plot for her (meaning I'd need to give her an antagonist of her own, as well as an entire storyline separate from the main plot) and. I kind of don't want that? It's very important to me to have this story be about the humans fighting for their freedom from the Fae. And interesting as Mor's story could be, it would put way too much focus on a Fae and I don't really see the appeal in that? So her role in the story will probably be more minor for a bit (until later on, when I have some plot for her again).

#before the wall #cinaja talks about writing

[cinaja]

m, p, u?

M: Got any premises on the back burner that you’d care to share?

I already answered that, but I just remembered some ideas I had for mini fics, so I'll just answer it again lol. So, one idea is basically a mini heist fic about how Miryam and Drakon managed to steal the Cauldron without starting a war in the process. I also really want to write the beginning of Before the Wall from Drakon's pov some time, because I hadn't really gotten into the story yet when I first started the story, and I also think Drakon's pov of the entire Engagement Mess would be really interesting. (It would also explain a large part of his self-confidence issues.)

P: Are you what George R. R. Martin would call an “architect” or a “gardener”? (How much do you plan in advance, versus letting the story unfold as you go?)

I would say I'm a mixture? I like having a general plan of where things I going. For my original works, I like having the general beats down so I know where I'm going and what kind of development I want. For Before the Wall, I had a rather concrete idea of what I wanted bc I'd been daydreaming about the story for ages. But I also tend to change lots of things while writing because I get a better understanding of the characters, get new ideas or realize old ones wouldn't work. Basically, I like having the general layout of my garden and what plants I want planned, but I'll let them grow on their own.

U: A pairing you might like to write for, but haven’t tried yet.

I'm not really a Romantic Pairing Person, tbh, and I think (?) that this is aimed at romantic pairings. Even with romantic relationships I like (all of the relationships in Before the Wall, for example), I am usually far less enthusiastic about them than about other things. BUT I am a sucker for friendship and found family, and I always wanted to write something with the Band of Exiles. I just really adore them, but I never really got around to writing anything with them.

#thanks for sending the ask❤❤ #mila #sunsummoner #ask #cinaja talks about before the wall #cinaja talks about writing

[cinaja]

okay but miryam & jurian actually being the most similar is SO GOOD. let them both be ruthless!! ik miryam doesn't canonically have the plagues but the crossing some moral lines + then dying + (eventually) being resurrected thing is a great parallel & also the best fuck you to canon trying to paint miryam as the good fae-acceptable human & jurian as the mean radical one. honestly she deserves to go off & destroy some shit, cause she didn't even get to do ANYTHING in canon, let alone destroy a mountain range or curse the black land.

Ahhh ty! And yes!! I also really love the parallels between Miryam and Jurian and them being so similar. Canon sets up some of the things there already (with them both being human leaders during the war who died at its end and (eventually) got resurrected), but as usual, it takes the worst possible route with everything, and I really enjoyed fixing it.

For making Miryam ruthless (& a lot like Jurian), I think it was a mixture of the whole set-up/story just DEMANDING she be at least a little bit ruthless and it being the only way to fix the mess that were the canon messages the entire thing conveys.

I just. Absolutely hated how she was written to have been the "model" human (specifically because she is presented as more forgiving of the Fae? SOMEHOW? Even though SHE was the one out of the two of them who had been a slave and therefore made the worst experiences with Fae?) and Jurian as the bad guy for... not liking the people who enslave his kind. It's just such a MESS. Tbh, Miryam breaking up with Jurian (a human) and instead marrying Drakon (a Fae noble) was already pretty bad and had a message I could not get behind at all, but with that entire "Miryam as the one who is forgiving towards Fae" thing on top of that, and the fact that Jurian was tortured and died as "punishment" for what he did while Miryam got resurrected and had a happy ever after with her Fae husband just made it completely terrible. It basically has the message that oppressed people should just forgive their oppressors and, idk, assimilate with them, but if they dare fight back, it will have a bad end for them or smth. And basically the only way out of that I saw was to let Miryam do something that is objectively far worse/more morally questionable than what Jurian did to Clythia and also generally be abundantly clear that she is no more forgiving towards the Fae than Jurian is even if she ends up married to one (which wasn't hard because why would she forgive them??? How could she NOT want some sort of revenge? Even if I choose to write her as someone who generally doesn't like violence and prefers to be kind whenever possible, how could that ever logically extend to the people who enslaved her?)

And, well, apart from Miryam's entire backstory and the entire "promised to free her people from the most powerful country of her time and actually succeeding after 7+ years of work" thing implying that she's at least a BIT ruthless, the whole Exodus retelling thing also demanded it since it was clear from the beginning that Miryam would need to be the one doing the plagues for it to work out. Canon doesn't include the plagues at all, but that makes the entire story fall apart (seriously, explain to me how Miryam and Drakon would manage to free all the humans WITHOUT first defeating the Black Land militarily), so I definitely needed them and I also definitely needed Miryam to do them because she is the Moses character in this and if it's already not her parting the sea, it HAS to be her with the plagues. (Also, once again, fuck canon for basically sidelining her in her own backstory. Everything we hear about the war just continuously implies that shr was important, but do we ever hear what she DID? Noooo, we instead hear ten million details about her romantic relationships, because that's apparently what matters. We couldn't spare a sentence to go "she was a diplomat" or "she was leader of the Alliance" or SOMETHING to explai what she actually DID during the war and why Mor thinks simply namedropping her will get her what she wants even 500 years after the war, but I'm so glad we got pages upon pages on her relationship drama ig.)

#this entire story is basically just #humans get to be angry at the Fae! without being demonized for it! #and Miryam gets to be angry and she gets to be ruthless and she gets to do SO MUCH STUFF #bc seriously. that setup of'promised to free her people from the Worst Country Of Her Time at 16-ish and then actually went through with it #is SO COOL. but ONLY if she actually gets to be the one working towards that goal #and her and Jurian are SO SIMILAR #which also makes the way they are presented in canon so hilarious bc I'm basically writing it down to #the IC Fundamentally Misunderstanding Everything About Them #cinaja talks about before the wall #lyn #thanks for the ask!!!

[cinaja]

@croissantcitysucks just described Before the Wall as "canon compliant in a way that looks canon in the face and spits at it" and never has the vibe I'm going for with this story been more perfectly described.

#it's kind of a challenge to make the mess that it canon into a coherent story #but it's also SO MUCH FUN to write the exact opposite of what sj.m intended while keeping everything completely canon compliant #do I know that sjm intended to have drakon be another Brooding Asshole? sure! but she didn't say so so I get to do the complete opposite #s.jm: the Fae were so nice to save the humans! they are the best! the humana are just ungrateful and also ugly #me (keeping direct eye contact): anyways here's 101 canon compliant reasons why most of the High Fae are absolutely TERRIBLE #it also helps that there are enough contradictions (some intentional; most not) on the war that I can just call unreliable narrator on some- #things #cinaja talks about before the wall

[cinaja]

Before the Wall snippet

“And you expect me to take this offer?” Ravenia asks lightly, as though she is amused by the mere idea. It seems her strategy for this meeting is to make it abundantly clear to the entire world that she doesn’t care what Miryam has to say, doesn’t take her seriously at all.

Some courtier behind Miryam snickers. She ignores it. Let them laugh. Should Ravenia refuse the surrender Miryam is offering, their laughter will die soon enough.

Today, they might mock Miryam, might laugh at the foolish mortal who dares challenge their leader. A few days from now, it will be Ravenia they think a fool, for not taking the offer when she had the chance. Miryam gives them five days at most until they hate Ravenia for being too proud to surrender.

“You should,” Miryam says. “You won’t get a better one.” Slowly, she starts walking towards Ravenia. The guards standing in front of the throne tense but make no move to stop her. “You’ve lost, Ravenia,” she says softly. “I have beaten you at every turn. My Alliance has defeated your Loyalists, more of your allies surrender to me every day, your High Witcher is dead at my hands. I told you that you would lose, that you could only ever lose, that I would win against you, and I have. I also told you I would destroy you. I suggest you take my offer now, or I can guarantee you, I will do that as well.”

#things are getting INTENSE #everything is coming full-circle #I've been waiting to write this for over a year #i'm so excited #and I hope you'll like all the stuff I have planned for the climax & resolution #(guys. there were SO MANY plot holes to fix. You have no idea. It was horrible. but I think (hope) I came up with a satisfactory way to - #- wrap it all up) #cinaja talks about before the wall #before the wall snippet

[cinaja]

It physically pains me that I cannot get around writing a Rhysand pov for the next chapter of btw.

#stupid narrative forcing me to write his pov #i'm half-tempted to write this part from Amarantha's pov instead of his #but unfortunately Rhysand's pov works better... #I Hate It #cinaja talks about before the wall

[cinaja]

🌹

"I know this isn't how most people see it, but I consider it a bigger show of love to honour someone's wishes no matter what they might be than to save their life no matter the cost."

#i'm very fond of that thematic aspect of this story arc #because YES doing anything to save your partner from death is romantic #but sometimes it's more romantic to know your partner well enough to umderstand they WOULDN'T want to be saved #and to respect that #just... more people who DON'T go 'fuck whatever happens to the world as long as I save you' #bc 1) they know that's not what their partner would want and respect that #and 2) they actually have morals that don't Stop Existing the moment they become inconvenient #sorry for the rant in the tags lol #i just have Many Thoughts about this #and it's really fun to write about #thanks for the ask! #anon #cinaja talks about before the wall #before the wall snippet

[cinaja]

I'm beginning to realize that completely ditching Rhysand's pov in Before the Wall and not even having him appear as a side character anymore was a rather,,, questionable narrative choice. Now the one plot-relevant appearance he does have will seem super random.

#but I also really couldn't have stomached writing him for 40-something chapters just for that one plot point #and I would have had to write him as GOOD too🤢 #cinaja talks about before the wall