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hollow-dweller · 2 months

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Talk Shop Tuesday: as someone who is involved in a lot of fandoms (and has seen a lot of horrors), has there been a significant shift in how fandom is today compared to the “good old days” as much as people say?

there are. SO MANY.

to start and to be entirely clear, there is no good old days of fandom. there are things i miss about fandom tendencies of the past, which i'll get into, but as many many many marginalized fans have and will continue to say, Ye Ol' Fandom was as much if not more of a cesspit of racism, misogyny, and queerphobia as it is today. because fandom platforms were more diversified, they were also more gatekept--and i mean actually gatekept, not just "people are mean about this thing i like" gatekept. to an extent this was necessary--fandom itself was much more culturally stigmatized, and existed largely in a legal gray area, so fandom spaces needed to be semi-closed communities for their own protection. however, if you were a fan who tried to bring up systemic fannish issues--such as racism--you could and would be kicked out of whatever fannish space you were in, and there would very rarely be other places to turn.

also as a caveat: this is not anywhere CLOSE to a comprehensive view of the changes in fandom nor the myriad factors that contribute to those changes. fandom is a cultural ecosystem existing within a broader cultural ecosystem, and the ways those things interact with and inform one another are literally innumerable. anyone who claims they know the One Thing That Ruined Fandom is oversimplifying the issue. anyone claiming they know the Twenty Things That Ruined Fandom is oversimplifying the issue. fandom is a living system, and living systems exist in a constant state of change.

but broadly speaking, i think there are two major changes that have informed The State of Fandom.

Consolidation of Fandom Platforms

as mentioned, fandom used to exist as a variety of closed or semi-closed forum spaces, blogs, archives, and other websites, each dedicated to its own fandom or, more often, subsets of a particular fandom. authors/artists had their own sites, particular ships had their own sites, fic had its own sites, art had its own sites, discussion/meta had its own sites, and any or all of these could be hosted in any combination across any number of websites depending on the fandom. some of this was the result of the structure of the early internet, and some of it was, as mentioned above, a function of necessity.

as the internet evolved and fandom platforms became consolidated, this necessarily changed fandom norms and behaviours. the way we write fic is different because of the advent and dominance of ao3, the way we construct meta is different because of the nature of sites like reddit and tumblr, the way we build community is different because of sites like discord, etc. notably, most of the changes we've seen are not created by social media or mass fandom platforms, but rather enhanced by them. ship wank, whether masquerading as legitimate analysis or not, has always been a cornerstone of fandom--it like all things is simply much more accessible to people now than it used to be. the subdivision of fandoms into different subgroups, even within a ship or media, has also always been a thing--people form friend groups with like-minded people and that's normal, actually. the types of conversations and conflicts fandom has have not changed that much--just the places and manner in which we engage with them.

modern fandom platforms are both more accessible and more comprehensive than they ever have been--so fans can more easily than ever be exposed to different corners or subsets of fandom. but also. fans can more easily than ever be exposed to different corners or subsets of fandom.

The Scarcity of Long Running Media and the Dissolution of the Monoculture

the type of media that fandom now orients itself around has changed drastically as a result of changes in the broader media landscape, and this also changes fandom norms and behaviour. it is increasingly more rare for a fandom to develop over the course of years, because long-running serialized (or even episodic) narratives are becoming less common. tv shows especially are released with vanishingly short promotion cycles, and with less and less certainty of continuation. creators have to therefore hedge their bets--the binge model means there is no room to pivot mid-season if things aren't working out, and the lack of certainty around renewal means that seasons have to be relatively close-ended in order to try to deliver a satisfying experience. similar trends affect book publishing--we are seeing fewer and fewer multi-part series being released, and fewer books dominating cultural discussion in the way blockbuster series of the past have.

thinking of cornerstone megafandoms of the past (and present), we tended to see a couple essential elements that contributed to both fandom engagement and sustained fandom activity: they were released over a longer period of time, and they took up a larger portion of the dominant cultural landscape. the Harry Potter books were released over a period of ten years and were, of course, a huge cultural moment. Twilight was released over a shorter period of time, but was similarly a cornerstone of the monoculture, enhanced by the immediate and almost-eclipsing (heh) release of its movie counterparts. The X-Files was released over the course of, again, a decade, and they will be releasing new Star Treks until the mountains crumble into the sea and the stars turn to dust. these fandoms all have greater and lesser degrees of longevity and output, but they and fandoms like them all had the benefit of time and cultural dominance in order to enable the development of the fandom.

this is not universal (nothing i'm saying is universal), but fandoms nowadays tend to be a lot shorter-lived and migratory simply because they have less material to work with and less time in which to work with it. Voltron, as one example, was a megafandom that developed rapidly and burned out quickly, and while it had a decent amount of material, its eight seasons were released over the course of two and a half years. fannish momentum can only be sustained on so much material for a certain period of time, and fannish investment is necessarily going to be curtailed if fans live in uncertainty about the continuation of their favourite media.

this also is reflected in the type of fanworks that we see proliferating. while AUs were not absent from Ye Old Fandom, i do think they were a lot less common/prominent. the longer release cycles and difference in structure between releases (open-ended finales as motivation to hook viewers into the next installment that they knew/were pretty certain was going to happen vs close-ended finales that hedge bets if a series is cancelled) led to a lot more speculative fanworks set within the canon, imagining what was going to happen next. a famous example is of course the HP fandom's Three Year Summer--the period of three years between the release of the fourth and fifth Harry Potter books that was intensely productive for that fandom. fanworks in that period were famously long and plotty canon divergence/canon speculation works branching from the return of Voldemort in book four, and that tendency towards long and plotty canon-based or canon-adjacent fanworks persists within the HP fandom to this day.

fandoms nowadays do tend more towards works that are stripped from their canon contexts (the infamous coffee shop au, media fusion aus, modern setting aus, no powers aus), and while these works did exist in Ye Old Fandom, they were both more rare and their reach was more limited.

Some Kind of Conclusion Because This Is An Essay Now I Guess

to present a synthesis scenario: a particular trope is generated and popularized by one fandom. due to its presence on consolidated platform sites, it becomes ubiquitous within that fandom, spawning further derivatives, copycats, reimaginings, and variations. as people migrate from fandom to fandom, both as a result of the media landscape itself and the ease of doing so on social media/multi-fandom sites, the trope or AU spreads to other fandoms, and is again further transformed by those fandoms. this continues ad infinitum.

this pattern is not limited to tropes in fanworks--it is applicable to every element of fandom, from discourse to meta to creative works to behavioural norms. the state of modern fandom is interconnected to the platforms on which fandom is hosted and the media on which it is based. no longer is the one common unifying element of fandom the source media--the unifying element is fandom itself. this is why we see, for example, people stating they get involved in fandoms for media they have no experience with--they do not know the source text, but they know fandom.

i could literally go on and on--i didn't even touch on things like the destruction of the fandom fourth wall, or the relationship to the practice of filing off the serial numbers, or the existence of BNFs (actual BNFs not people like you seek who just Have Friends and Make Things), or the connection to nostalgia, or the relationship to commentary and analysis-based fandom outlets such as rewatch podcasts, or-

there are literally so many elements here. i could talk about this forever. i probably will be talking about this forever. please god someone let me out of here HELP-

#fandom #fandom meta #fandom history #fandom analysis #what do i even tag this as #long post #asks #i cannot express how much this barely scratches the surface #obligatory charlie day conspiracy board meme

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raayllum · 8 months

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gotta say one of the most validating things as a speculative meta writer isn't necessarily introducing a possibility to people that they enjoy (although yes, that is an undoubtedly fun process!) but seeing people reach the same conclusions/predictions of their own accord

#cause sometimes it feels very conspiracy board y'know?#dragons rambles #rayllum fandom #s5 being a turning point in the 'yeah what if callum freed aaravos' speculation has felt so good #cause even if it doesn't happen like. the fanon content is so good #& i'm glad we get this period/enjoyment however long it lasts

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kanyniablue · 21 days

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also while i'm on the fandom thought-train: is andre (blond liberty spikes raver in the drug tent/church dance club) a narc

because he seems like a narc

(spoiler-y evidence gathered below)

-he's significantly older than the other anodic dance music group (skill check points out that he's balding & if you ask his age he says he's "not twenty")

-constantly sucks up to harry like he doesn't want to get on his bad side (because he is himself an undercover cop who doesn't want to complicate his operation?)

-just breezily reveals that yes it's going to actually be a drug lab & yes they'll stop now officer since you asked so nicely--wants to throw you, fellow/rival officer, off his operation

-can't dance

-seriously, he's starting a club for anodic music--a dance club for anodic music--and he can't dance? ඞ

-talks like...that

-kim never directly interacts with him (that i've seen)--possibly he'd recognize another juvenile division undercover officer if he did???

#disco elysium #i have no idea if this is confirmed or denied in canon i'm just conspirizing recreationally #i like crunching the gritty little bits of lore together #like just the charlie day conspiracy board meme--that's how i fandom #or 'ive connected the two dots'

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agerefandom · 11 months

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Top 10: Tumblr vs. AO3

Just felt like doing some statistics with my work!! Comparing AO3 popular fics vs. tumblr popular fics and seeing what I found out: thought other people might be interested as well! Ramblings about patterns and causes are under the ‘read more’ :P

AO3 (by kudos):

Class Outing: BNHA, regressor!Izuku (1247 kudos)

Only Heaven I’ll Be Sent To: Resident Evil, regressor!reader, caregiver!Lady Dimitrescu (759 kudos)

Cold Palms, Warm Heart: Twilight, regressor!reader, caregivers!Alice and Jasper (573 kudos)

The Doctor’s Office: Twilight, regressor!reader, caregiver!Carlisle (403 kudos)

Kitchen Friends: Marvel, regressor!reader, caregiver!Steve and Bucky (336 kudos)

Sound and Silence: BNHA, regressor!Aizawa, cg!Hizashi (321 kudos)

Restrained: Death Note, regressor!Light, caregiver!L (309 kudos)

A Story For Sans: regressor!Sans, caregiver!Papyrus (278 kudos)

Home Sweet Home: caregivers!Carlisle and Esme, regressor!Cullens (273 kudos)

To Weather The Storm: caregiver!Tamaki, regressor!Haruhi (238 kudos)

Tumblr (fics only):

Class Outing (167 notes)

Cold Palms, Warm Heart (159 notes)

The Playtime Solution: Sanders Sides, regressor!Logan (159 notes)

The Doctor’s Office (150 notes)

Sugary Sweet: Twilight, regressor!reader, cg!Jasper and Alice (150 notes)

Kitchen Friends (125 notes)

Only Heaven I’ll Be Sent To (116 notes)

What Family Is: Harry Potter, regressor!reader, cg!Remus and Sirius (116 notes)

Just Plane Overwhelmed: Sanders Sides, regressor!Virgil (111 notes)

Golden Slumbers: Harry Potter, regressor!reader and Harry, cg!Fred (110 notes)

Overall Tumblr Top 10:

Caregiver Valerie Frizzle headcanons & moodboard (409 notes)

Writing Prompts 2019 / 2022 (290/365 notes)

Caregivers Tiana and Naveen headcanons (244 notes)

Caregiver Jack Skellington moodboard (229 notes)

Caregiver Morticia Addams moodboard (224 notes)

Regressor Wybie Moodboard (205 notes)

Caregiver Bruno Madrigal headcanons (201 notes)

Caregiver Jack Skellington headcanons (191 notes)

Caregivers Sundrop and Moondrop headcanons (189 notes)

Caregiver Belle headcanons (182 notes)

This was really interesting!!

Re: overall tumblr top 10: I think it’s funny that my throwaway moodboards are often some of the most popular content on my blog. Things I’m just like ‘ooh I gotta make this’ are mixed in with requests, I think that’s interesting! Ms. Frizzle just blowing away the competition, that’s amazing and I love it. Nothing is even close to how popular she is, and she deserves it. Jack Skellington coming onto the list twice? Come through king, I would love to write a full fic in Halloweentown sometime.

Generally, the more ‘alternative’ characters seem to get a lot more attention on my blog: The Pumpkin King, Morticia, Wybie, Sundrop and Moondrop... Tiana and Naveen really snuck up there though!

Moving onto the more direct fic comparison:

....well this made me realize that I never published my Sanders Sides fics from this blog on AO3, whoops

Setting that aside, fics with angst and plot tend to do better on AO3, while fluffy stories do better on tumblr: Sugary Sweet doesn’t even hit my top 10 on AO3 and it’s one of the fluffiest fics I’ve ever written, coming in at #5 on the tumblr list

On the other hand, Only Heaven I’ll Be Sent To is by far one of my best performing fics on AO3, but comes in at number 6 (tied with another fic) on tumblr, probably because it features a lot of action and gore alongside the fluffy agere elements, same for Restrained showing up on the AO3 top but not tumblr’s.

My Harry Potter fics do way better on tumblr, which is interesting? Maybe Harry Potter fans are still reading their fics on independent forums? Or Harry Potter folks on AO3 don’t cross over much with the agere crowd. (Or maybe they’re just overloaded with /reader fics) I haven’t been actually into the HP community since around 2011 so I’m not sure what’s up there.

Big shoutout to Class Outing for dominating the top of both lists: BNHA is such a big fandom that it makes sense, and I wrote that fic on @agere-fandom-time, which I think got more interaction than this blog: it seems like people are more comfortable interacting with a group-run blog, rather than an individual writer. Or maybe that’s a natural consequence of more writers putting out more consistent content, letting the blog get bigger. I’m not sure! Either way, even if I’m not into BNHA anymore, I feel like it’s a good piece of my writing, so I’m happy for it to be my top spot.

#how do i tag this lol #hark i say nothing #stella babbles in statistics #ao3 stats are one of my hobbies #i love to compare years and fandoms and ships and tags #i have like over a hundred graphs on my computer for different comparisons #i've considered making a sideblog for it #but i can also just ramble to my partner #like a person with a conspiracy board #it's great #links.... so many links

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eyeshields · 6 months

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Sign-ups for the ES21 Winter Gift Exchange have closed; thanks to everyone who signed up! I'll be working on gift assignments over the next couple days and will send them out via DM when I'm done.

#eyeshield 21 #es2023wge #now time for me to create something that looks like a conspiracy board and meanwhile be very very glad our fandom is small LMAO

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jazzzzzzhands · 4 months

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Just wanted to pop in and say I adore seeing your art still after all these years! I love how colorful everything you make is!! Keep up the great work 😊💙💙

OOHH AWAAAA!! Holding up one of my oldest fans to everyone! I can't believe you followed me all the way from the KG fandom truly. All the way from DA too! Those silly little frogs are still very funny to me Thank you, thank you for sticking around!!

you know i loved this bastard

#yes yes i know you!#everytime i see you in my notifs its like wowwwww!#thru the undertale fandom too!!#but yeah you might just be my oldest fan awawawawaa #i just realized he has a SPIRAL #connecting the dots #getting out my lil conspiracy board #fdsjfdshjkfdshfds #but no this guy was an asshole and i did find him so so funny #absolute gremlin #i feel so embarassed bringing in my old ass fandom #you know too much sorry my friend #but i have to take you out #jk jk just kidding!!#yellow man with a spiral....#jazzanswers #jazzisaspazz #welp! i hope you love WALLY!!!#Wally loves you!

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thankskenpenders · 5 months

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Help me out here: Why is there so much Ian Flynn hate going around lately? I thought everyone loved that he was contributing to the games. Now suddenly they aren't. I guess that's par for the course for this series but I don't get it. He isn't perfect but I like what he's done. Am I a weirdo?

Ian Flynn has always had a lot of fans, but any creator putting their work out there is going to have detractors as well. That's just the nature of being an artist. To some extent, it's no big deal. He's not a perfect writer. Nobody is! I consider myself a fan of his work, but I've criticized plenty of individual writing decisions from him on here.

But Ian doesn't just have critics. He has his own obsessive hatedom. And the specific nature of Ian's hatedom is... interesting.

A decade ago, Ian was only the guy writing for Archie Sonic, meaning any debates over his work were quarantined within that tiny niche of the larger Sonic fandom. Only people who kept up with the comics month to month had any real reason to have an opinion on the guy, which means we're talking about merely thousands of fans as opposed to millions.

Within that group, he had some haters. You had the people who were mad about story changes made during his run, particularly things like ancillary characters getting killed off (although over the years we've learned that most of those were editorial mandates from Mike Pellerito). You had the people mad that Ian didn't push their favorite ship, with feuding SonAmy and Sonally fans claiming that he was CLEARLY biased towards one or the other. You had the people who just really, really liked one of the previous writers way more - usually Penders, as hard as that may be to believe today. That sort of thing. Pretty normal comic fandom type stuff. Again, it comes with the territory.

Unfortunately, many of those haters only got worse over time, morphing into reactionaries who constantly try to incite Comicsgate type culture war bullshit.

There are people still mad at Ian for making Sally bi and pairing her with Nicole instead of Sonic in the later Archie comics. There have been elaborate MS Paint red string conspiracy boards explaining how people like Ian and Jon Gray have apparently been destroying the franchise from the inside for years by Making Sonic Woke. (Jon gets dragged into this because people are still mad about him drawing The Slap 20 years later. Yes, really!!) There was an unhinged change.org petition trying to get Ian fired, specifically from people who were mad that the Freedom Fighters aren't in the IDW comics. There was even a very sad little fan campaign from these people trying to get Sega to move the Sonic comic license away from IDW and over to Udon, because they thought Udon would bring Sally and Bunnie back and also make them sexy again. There's a lot of this.

(Unfortunately, Penders has also exacerbated this by gossiping about Ian on Twitter and giving these fans ammo, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

The thing is, for years, people who only played the games or watched the cartoons had no reason to pay attention to any of this. Now, though, Ian isn't just writing for some weird spinoff comics that only the super nerds read. Now he's writing comics that are canon to the games, and ALSO some of the games themselves, and ALSO consulting on other tie-in media like Sonic Prime, and ALSO writing the official Sonic encyclopedia, and ALSO serving as part of the new Sonic Lore Team at Sega. And on top of all this, he's got an increasingly popular podcast where he fields questions about his work on all of these things, which serves as one of the fandom's main windows into creative decisions being made behind the scenes.

As a fan of Ian's work, it's been really cool to see him rise in prominence. But the dark side of this is that his obsessive haters from the Archie days now have WAY more of a potential audience of their own. Now, every Sonic fan has to have an opinion on Ian. What this frequently means is that you'll have the Comicsgate types taking things Ian writes or says out of context, attempting to get more of the general fandom to yell at the guy.

Unfortunately, there are a wide variety of Sonic fans who take the bait:

You've got hardcore fans who disliked basically any recent piece of Sonic media and are looking for someone to blame.

You've got the people who are concerned about the sanctity of Sonic's canon, who shoot the messenger any time Ian mentions a new retcon from Sonic Team on the podcast - or any time he even mentions the THOUGHT of changing anything about the canon, as we saw recently with the Sol Dimension nonsense.

You've got people who romanticize some sort of mythical artistic vision that Sega of Japan supposedly has (or had) for the franchise. To many of these fans, American contributors like Ian just don't "get" the heart of the series and are trying to turn Sonic into something different. (This "heart of the series" tends to be some mix of Japanese instruction manual lore, the cinematics from Sonic CD, the OVA, and/or the games written by Shiro Maekawa, depending on what Sonic media the fan in question grew up with.)

You've got fans of specific characters or ships who pin the blame for how their faves are depicted entirely on Ian - most vocally fans of Shadow, even though the root problem is that Sonic Team hasn't known what to do with Shadow since 2006. At best this stops at regular old criticism, but at its worst this devolves into claims that Ian has an agenda against certain characters.

You've got fans annoyed by a perceived over-emphasis on comic-original characters in the IDW comics, ignoring the obvious facts that these characters exist because the game cast is so tightly controlled by Sega, and also, you know, that people just like the IDW characters and want more stories about them.

You've got a LOT of discourse over IDW's Sonic being a hero who tries to give his enemies second chances, as if half of Sonic's closest friends aren't already former villains and rivals. Honestly this is very transparently just reheated Steven Universe discourse lmao

You'll also see people who just think they could do Ian's job better. They can't believe that THIS GUY is the American fan working on all these Sonic projects, when clearly THEY understand the characters and lore and themes SO much better than this charlatan.

All it takes is for someone in one of these categories to be unhappy about some recent piece of Sonic media, and for them to come across an out of context quote or comic panel that rubs them the wrong way, and suddenly the leftist Zoomer Sonic fans will join the latest dogpile on Ian alongside the reactionary Comicsgate types who are mad at him for Making Sonic Woke.

In general, when fandoms get upset, they tend to want a scapegoat. A person or two to point a finger at and go "THAT's who ruined the thing I love!" This tends to be based less on reality and more on which contributors are the most visible online. You'll sometimes see teenage and adult fans of children's cartoons single out a storyboarder who's particularly vocal on Twitter, blame them for every story decision they don't like, and harass them off the platform out of a sense of retribution for their favorite ship or whatever. Failing that, fans might choose to blame every nitpick, down to individual lines of dialogue and frames of animation, on a showrunner, just because that's the name they associate with the show. And unfortunately, when it comes to Sonic, Ian is now arguably the most prolific and outspoken contributor on the English speaking internet, and therefore a common scapegoat.

Some of the things I've seen Ian blamed for are truly wild. A lot of people have claimed for YEARS that he's just lying about the existence of creative guidelines and restrictions from Sega - or, as fans call them, The Mandates - even though they're just an inherent aspect of working on a licensed property. Others claim that The Mandates are real, but somehow Ian's fault. A vocal minority of fans have convinced themselves that Ian is the sole reason the Freedom Fighters don't exist in the IDW comics, even though Ian says he's been pushing to bring them back since day one.

Sometimes you'll see people say he ruined shit he didn't even work on. A few weeks ago on Twitter I saw someone claim that Ian had written a rejected script for Sonic Forces in which Tails died. I could not find a source for this for the life of me. As far as I can tell, the rumor seems to have been born from an alleged leaked script for Forces with margin notes from Aaron Webber that criticized the way Tails was written, and also an old tweet where Aaron joked that Tails would die in an upcoming episode of Sonic Mania Adventures. These merged into "Aaron Webber criticized a draft of the Forces script in which Tails died." How'd Ian get dragged into this? Who fucking knows!

It's all just a big game of telephone. All it takes is some asshole to make something up about Ian on Twitter or YouTube or a DeviantArt journal or some forum, and at least a couple people will believe it, and then it gets repeated as fact. Again, this used to be contained by the niche nature of the Archie Sonic fandom, but now there are WAY more people who are receptive to this shit.

It's just sad to me that Ian tries to be so open and honest about his work, to try to explain the rationale for certain things, to keep fans looped in on the direction the franchise is headed, and this just gives the Flynnspiracy types more quotes to take out of context and try to paint him as the devil. If it sounds like I'm being overly defensive and dismissing his critics, man... some of the things I've seen people say directly to him are just unbelievable. People will send paragraphs-long angry screeds in to his podcast that completely tear him apart, and he has to sit there and be like "Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it." People literally pay for special guest interview episodes where they just rapid fire complaints about his writing at him directly to his face. I don't know how he does it. I would snap.

All of this over Sonic the fucking Hedgehog of all things.

I don't know how to wrap this up. Engaging with fandoms online is very tiring, which is why I tend not to do it. Things like this are too common. I guess, just... remember that making art collaboratively is a complicated thing. The people involved are generally trying their best given the circumstances, but they're only human. They make mistakes. But please treat them like humans. Criticism and dogpiling are not the same thing.

#anon #ask #tkp asks #tkp post

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