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palipunk · 1 year

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“I love vivienne but I would never make her divine-“ you see that’s where I’m different. I will ALWAYS make her divine

#dragon age #vivienne #madame vivienne #vivienne de fer #divine vivienne #saif talks #she is my favorite and imo best choice of the three #pro vivienne

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grayluforever · 2 months

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I have the full lore on chaggie after reading ken's document exposing vivzie. he was one of the writers for the pilot storyboard and pretty much wrote 90% of the entire pilot dialogue. this was around 2017/2018 but vivzie told him she didn't know who to ship vaggie with since she cancelled vaggie/angel dust, ken suggested she make vaggie have a crush on charlie. viv takes everyone's ideas so she just went with it. the reason alastor/charlie had so much chemistry is because viv intended them to be mirrors of each other (like two sides of the same coin) so when the pilot was animated a few of the artists added that dance scene because charlie/alastor looked good together. so yea, chaggie has always been forced and were originally supposed to be friends 😂 I am always wondering if viv regrets it because 1: she made the video in my pinned that confirmed charlie's ideal man is alastor, 2: a friend of mine got her charlastor art signed by vivzie who was really friendly about it and she said vivzie implied that she regrets selling the rights to amazon

#charlastor #anti chaggie #anti viviziepop #alastor x charlie #anti vivienne medrano #anti charlie x vaggie #pro charlastor #spidermoth #angel x vaggie

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darklinaforever · 1 month

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Not someone in real life coming to lecture me because I hate and criticize the character of Aegon II and more particularly Criston Cole from HOTD and Fire and Blood but love the character of Adam in Hazbin Hotel ?!

I'm not kidding, a guy literally barged into a discussion I was having with a friend at university to try to judge my fictional tastes. That’s crazy.

Also, a guy being a greens stans ? How surprising (#irony) !

Also, sorry not sorry, Adam from Hazbin Hotel is a much better villain / antagonist, and even just character, than Aegon II will ever be !

Already, he has the class of the designer, his dubbing is also perfect, his lines are hilarious, his song is great, he has a real relationship that is appreciable for the fans, clearly based on true affections / love (platonic I mean, even if I ship) with his female lieutenant Lute.

Without forgetting his whole rather vague past in the series, in particular with the story of the apple allowing us to know the difference between good and evil, of which we actually have no idea if he bit it like Eve did it in this version.

I certainly won't apologize for liking a character like Adam.

I even hope that he will return as a fisherman in season 2 with a little hope !

Adam is a thousand times better than Criston Cole in every sense of the word. It's just a fact.

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rosenecklaces · 11 months

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nothing more beautiful than having hopes for the possibilities of more women interacting and having scenes on elain's book. nuala and cerridwen, vassa, emerie, clotho possibly even LOA (don't get it twisted the book will be elriel but lulu would probably have a storyline) and azriel mother

Like i really hope sjm stops being a coward and fake feminist for once, i want men to ACTUALLY take a back seat and let elain breathe with women around her without making it weird and get men unnecessarily involved in the middle

#elain archeron #pro elain #acotar5 #also let's add Vivienne on the list she's kind of interesting but we barely had things about her #i want WOMEN in this supposed books about women mc's narratives and growth

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du-hjarta-skulblaka · 1 year

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So an LP channel I love presented a theory that the mage circle in DA is essentially built to fail, things like templar incompetence and brutality and poor training of mages are allowed to spread specifically so that there are enough incidents to keep the widespread fear of mages fresh, and I LOVE that. Given how Bioware writes I sincerely doubt its intended, but its a take that I really love particularly when you look at all the cultures with mages outside of the chantry that do just fine (mainly thinking if the dalish here but like...there's enough casually mentioned apostates out there just vibing to suggest that circle training against demons isn't all that effective)

Downside is it makes Vivienne all the more infuriating to deal with. I already struggled talking to her because she's like...she's literally fighting for her own oppression, it drives me insane

#and before anyone says sure i see the arguments that mages are inherently dangerous #its the same story you see in X-men or telepaths in B5 etc etc #that doesnt make it any less a narrative about oppression lol #its the same reason i have such strong opinions on marvel civil war for example #(the comic not the movie the movie was shit)#like...it doesnt matter how theoretically dangerous a person is. theyre still a fucking person.#let individual groups manage their own people yknow #shocking take my gay autistic trans ass is agressively pro mage lol but like...god #bioware has such an interesting and direct parable on their hands and routinely wipes their collective ass with it #and its especially frustrating bc Vivienne is an interesting character! id love to get to know her more #but every fucking conversation is a criticism that im giving mages basic personal freedoms or how wonderful the chantry is #it makes her downright unpleasant to talk to #at least sera and bull feel like they can at least see the other side of things sometimes

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kayura-sanada · 2 years

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Oh yeah, some sections of this fandom LOVE to hurl abuse at Anders, who's trying to change things and then heap praise on Vivienne who's really only in it for herself and doesn't care who she has to step on to obtain more power and prestige. I wouldn't say I enjoy the way the narrative destroys any mage who goes against the Chantry as that would be a lie on my part, it actually feels like the narrative just disregards quite a lot of the more pro mage choices, at least to me. Particularly DA:I.

Mm. Tumblr was in its heyday when DA:I came out, and Tumblr is a place where fandom has collectively come together to dwindle everything in the universe down to simple, black-and-white cardboard cutouts. With a world and story that's very complex, Dragon Age as a whole was bound to crash and burn in such a fandom. It's no longer a matter of complexity and moral ambiguity, but a question of good and evil, right and wrong. To me, that's both infinitely infuriating - use your brains, for god's sake - and infinitely interesting. Since, you know, the Chantry also pushes a right-wrong, good-evil narrative. Oftentimes it feels like real people in our real world have fallen for this same simple narrative, though their opinions on who and what falls on which side may differ a bit from the Chantry's.

When it comes to Anders, he's evil because he killed innocent people in a terrorist attack. Which is weird, because most of fandom hates the Chantry and how mages are treated? Yet they believe change will come through negotiation? Honestly, I think these people who hate Anders are still in the mindset I was when I first played DA2 - these things I hate about the Chantry and the Circle and Kirkwall will all magically be fixed because I'm the main character in a video game. But in reality, it never works like that. Every country gained its freedom from monarchy with revolution. Slavery only ended after a war (and even then only in part). Corrupt leadership only dies when the leaders die, and innocent people will always die, too. "Gone With the Wind" is a classic for a reason.

To me, revolution is always bloody and messy and cruel, just as much as it is necessary. But in the world of good-evil, anyone who kills innocents (on-screen) is a bad guy. Period.

Vivienne, however, is different! Because the innocent man she sent to his death made a racist remark, which deserves death, apparently. (And with the good-evil crowd, such over-the-top violence is often lauded.) And since Vivienne hides behind elegance and cleverness, her careless cruelty and dismissal of other people is either missed or ignored as 'girlboss, take no shit from no man' behavior.

Or at least, I hope it's this and not the usual 'she's a powerful black woman so we love her' thing that fails to look at the character and only looks at her body. There's reasons I love the new Spider-Man MJ and hate Vivienne, and shockingly none have anything to do with their looks.

And on the point of pro-mage choices being thrown out the window, nonny, I'm afraid we're gonna have to disagree on this. The first Dragon Age showed me the cruelty of the templars and the Circle the instant I was told I either saved the Grand Enchanter or every mage died, even if I killed all the blood mages and demons. I saved those mages' lives then. DA: Awakening gave me the chance to befriend Anders against templars who would have seen him killed simply for being a free mage. DA2 gave me the chance to back Anders' revolution. DA:I let me give Fiona a leadership role outside of the Circle and let me bring back the College of Enchanters. It was the world and its anti-mage attitude that kept trying to set me back. But if the Hero of Ferelden hadn't befriended Anders and Justice, the revolution would never have happened. If my Inquisitor hadn't saved the mages of Redcliffe, they all would have been made slaves to Tevinter.

I love the efforts I've made because it feels difficult to induce change, and it comes through the two-steps-forward-one-step-back dance that is so common in history (we're watching it right now with our loss of abortion rights!). So this feels very real to me, that the changes I make seem unimportant and subtle and like they've barely made a ripple in how the world works. But my tiny efforts sparked a revolution. It made a giant portion of mages free. The world of Thedas may be fighting against these changes with everything it has, but they're happening, like it or not. We just have to keep pushing.

#nonny #response #dragon age #vivienne de fer critical #anders #pro-mage #anti chantry

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ziracona · 2 years

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TLDR at the bottom, as I know this became very long. My apologies.

I would really like to clarify first that I am not arguing with you or attempting to make you like her and am just attempting to explain my stance since you seemed confused about specifically this: as someone who is very solidly for mage rights in the Dragon Age games and also really likes Vivienne, I do think you overestimate how many fans she has? Which is completely understandable as fandom has cooled a little bit in the last few years, which means there’s less discourse posts floating around, but it used to be that if I found Vivienne content it was vitriolic towards her—she has a canonical Ao3 tag labeled “Vivienne (Dragon Age) Is A Bitch” for example.

We’re not prone to criticizing her character on the regular because she already gets a lot of it, on about the same level as Anders (whom I also am very fond of) and most of it has already been said before.

For examples though, her arguments about mages are genuinely infuriating and make little sense.

She is fantastically racist in the game, which is also very frustrating, though to be fair to her, I’m having trouble thinking of a companion who isn’t at some point or another without ability to correct them (Dorian supporting slavery and his “elven harpy” comment towards, Cole’s “Never trust half an elf” comment which is bad regardless of if they were intending it to be about Michel, Solas and Sera’s everything unfortunately, etc. all come to mind.) Maybe Bull, Leliana, or Josie? I can’t remember them being so off the top of my head.

These things do suck and most Vivienne fans (except for a few, but typically fans who support the fantasy Catholic Church aren’t going to be the type of fans who will bother caring about a Black woman—they’ll usually go for Cullen, the white straight man who is anti-mage and who the narrative actually cares about) are very aware of her flaws, but generally we think it was a very stupid idea to have the first Black companion (that they will actually admit to being Black anyway, unlike Isabela who got whitewashed and Morrigan and Cole, who never really have the fact that they are mixed Black acknowledged or shown in the games) support the oppressive system and use her as a mouthpiece for a conservative agenda.

(Using characters as a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the devs are trying to push with little regard to their actual characters is a very common thing in Inqusition—ex. at one point they have Cole say Cullen was a “good Templar who remembered the mages are people” when Cullen literally has a line in 2 saying “Mages aren’t people like you and me.” which is a direct quote from him, and even though Cole should by all rights be terrified by Cullen. Also, all of Varric’s Inquisition characterization.)

I mean, her companion quest is just there to have you distrust her briefly (the quest is named after a classic villain line and the youth potion paper) before “surprising” the player with the the fact that she… has layers? Cares about someone? Which is so… incredibly stupid on the Dev’s parts for a variety of reasons that if I talk about now I will start getting genuinely angry over.

I also think she has some very redeeming qualities. I personally found that she was very compassionate towards an Inquisitor she was friends with. It doesn’t stop her from being opportunistic, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing necessarily. I think this bit specifically is probably something we won’t agree on however, since we have very different readings on these moments, so I’m going keep it at that.

None of this is meant to convince you to like her at all, but I wanted to explain my perspective in doing so since you seemed confused about it.

TLDR: I, and many other pro-mage Vivienne fans, are aware of her flaws, but we think that was a terrible writing decision and do see several redeemable qualities in her character. None of this is meant to sway you in your dislike of her, but I wanted to explain my perspective since you said you didn’t understand how someone could like Vivienne and be pro-mage.

(P.S. I am very sorry if any of this comes off as condescending or if this was completely unwelcome. I’m autistic and have a hard time with tone, both reading it and delivering it. I’m working on it, but I’m still not good at tone over text.)

I. I understand all of this. I’ve criticized the fact they made the first black companion a huge bitch and a bigot against her own kind from the second it became clear that was her personality? But her being the first black companion also doesn’t innately make her a good character. Being a minority doesn’t make what a character does automatically ok or less bad, and idealization is dehumanization as much as villainizing is. It makes BioWare’s writers and their decisions gross, and their agenda gross, any anyone who uses her sucking as an excuse to be racist or disproportionately hateful to only the black companion horrible, but it at the same time doesn’t just…make her good, or ok.

She’s written stupidly, but the character they made is a bigot given no real character growth who tries to ruin the advances for mage rights even if you put forth the best possible outcomes (Lelianna Divine, allied Mages) and befriended Vivienne. She straight sucks. She does. She is a bad, selfish, emotionally manipulative person with no empathy for those of her kind less privileged than her, and a species traitor. (Or whatever? Can’t think of a better thing to categorize Mages as. Class??) It’s not like I only complain about her. I’ve been just as liberal complaining about Doriana and Sera and every other fucked up choice the Devs made. If you’ve seen anything I posted the past week, you’ve probably seen me having a meltdown over how utterly unsalvagable Inquisition is as a game. As for Viv herself, she’s not devoid of good qualities. She’ll be nice if she’s your friend, you’re right, but you have to be kind of terrible to befriend her at all, and so? So is everyone on the planet. That’s what fair weather friends /are/. But beyond that, yeah. She’s not all evil. She cared about the guy she was mistress to. She’s not a monster. But she high key is a terrible person and sucks. You’re right, the devs making her quest a quote from the Queen from Snow White of all things, to encourage a player to lie to her, is fucked up. So is literally everything they did to her. So is how they treated Bull, and Dorian, and Sera, and all kinds of things. But that doesn’t make the character good.

From your own description, you don’t actually like canon Vivienne. You like the HC version you rewrote in your head. And that’s fair, and it’s a fair way to say fuck you to the devs—I do the same with Solas. But you’ll never see me not absolutely accusing the shit out of canon end game Trespasser Solas—he’s a racial supremacist genocide intellectual dude bro, which is a horrific choice for the devs to make esp considering his preTrespasser characterization, but that’s still what he was. I can ignore that and make my HCs, but I’m not going to pretend canon wasn’t what it is. It was. And I wasn’t complaining I see alternate takes on Vivienne, but that I see people talk about Canon Viv like she’s a girlboss while claiming to be pro mage, and those things just concretely do not and cannot go together. And that complaint absolutely stands. It’s cool and even good to hc and rewrite her as a different person. But that’s not canon Viv anymore then, it’s an OC that should have been in the game.

#ask #anonymous #I’m sick of people wanting to argue with me about dragon age so I’m not tagging this sorry people who filter my blog I usually put you first #but I can’t take it anymore #I am also sick of people arbitrarily liking charcaters who suck because they’re hot or because they’re X and then ignoring or excusing every #terrible thing they do or ignoring it compeltely and it happens all the time in everything and I’m allowed to be annoyed by things that #annoy me. it annoys me I don’t see people complain about Dorian being pro slavery or even hesitate to romance him over it. it annoys me Sera #is a bigot to elves and will try to forcibly convert a lover to Fantasy Catholicism or break up. it annoys me Varric is a massive bitch in #Inquisition in many ways but everyone loves him. it annoys me he refused to speak to my husband ONCE even in the event of my death to tell #him I died. it annoys me he will Stan Iza after the end of Act2 but flips on Anders like a griddle cake. it annoys me he’s a centrist and no #one criticizes that. it annoys me Aveline is a bastard cop in DA2 and I don’t see people criticize that. it annoys me Cassandra won’t tell #Mages how to reverse tranquility and no one I see talks about it. it annoys me they Tommy Gun’d Solas’ charcater from the entire game in #Trespasser and I see people stan him or hate him but no one talk about how fucked up the message the devs flipped on a dime to push with #Trespasser was. and it annoys me Vivienne is a huge bitch and a bigot but i either see people complain only that she’s mean or Stan her as a #girlboss and ignore the fact she’s specist and horribly anti mage and a class/species traitor who doesn’t get better #and it annoys me MUCH MORE than ALL of these things that the fault Leo’s with BioWare eroding it’s ethics to a point of toxicity utterly #*Lies With #unlivable and as little as I see complaints about any of the above I still see them more than people calling to break down doors if that #dumbass white Canadians’ game company and wring their necks for every horrific racist anti-minority-action centrist #fascist religious oligarchy supremacist bullshit take they shoved down every player’s throat in Inquisitiom

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grayluforever · 2 months

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both sir p and cherri are straight

they only showed interest to the opposite sex

#anti lgbt #pro cherrisnake #sir pentious x cherri bomb #sir pentious is a straight man #cherri bomb is a straight woman #anti vivienne medrano #anti vivizepop

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annalyticall · 2 years

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I do think the conflict between the mages and Templars is more gray and nuanced than people might think, and that nuance can be seen through the way this conflict is presented in each of the games' companions.

For mages, we have:

Wynne, a mage woman whose newborn child was forcibly taken from her and given to the Chantry by the Templars

Anders, an apostate who endured a year of solitary confinement for his sixth escape attempt, was threatened with execution for his seventh, was hunted again even after joining the Grey Wardens, and was forced to mercy kill his ex-lover after finding he was illegally fantasy-lobotomized by the Templars

Cole, the Spirit of Compassion taking the physical form of a young mage boy who died a slow painful death from starvation after being abandoned in a dungeon by a Templar

And for Templars, we have:

Alistair, who was never actually a Templar and regularly voices his distrust of the order after witnessing the murder of a young mage girl during her Harrowing by the Templars

Carver, who determinately joins the order and despite his feelings towards his mage sibling will still defend them from detection by his fellow Templars

Cullen, an ex-Templar advisor who suffers from the trauma and addiction his order caused him and will strongly advise against a warrior-class Inquisitor from also becoming a Templar

So you see, the issue is actually very balanced and morally gray.

#dragon age #i was thinking about how the games and especially DA:I try to make it out to be morally gray #despite never actually ever giving us a proper templar companion #the most pro-templar companion i think is Vivienne who is a mage #maybe followed by Aveline since her husband was a templar and even then she's not outright supportive of them #i hope this is less of an issue in DA4 by virtue of being set in Tevinter

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climbingivy97 · 2 years

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Here’s some punk trousers that I made inspired by the punk movement in the 70s and based around the whole abortion debate and roe v wade protests! For anyone wondering I’m pro choice btw

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skydalorian · 1 year

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With Absolution, I am living for the implication that Vivienne is canon Divine. She’s arguably the worst for the position in regards to my own desires for the Circles to be dissolved (I find her pro-Circle stance to be a deal-breaker for a character for whom I’d otherwise have obsessive fondness) but by god is she the most interesting option.

#this is a pro-Vivienne blog even if we'd disagree on everything #I don't think I have a DA character I dislike tbh #maybe oghren?#fanfic has absolved cullen even if he is less than deserving #dragon age #da

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