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nicolos · 2 years

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i understand that certain people in this fandom have grown extremely brave, and that this whole event is the result of that, nevermind individual works in the event, which have made it impossible for me, at least, to go into the tag for long since the start of october - however, this, the work in the tag today, is just the absolute fucking depth of depravity.

for one: having been here for over 2 yrs now, i am familiar in some way with the way this fandom has operated, and i know that works like these are in some way almost engineered out of spite, like saying "look what i can do and you can't stop me." i am sorry to anybody that feels this is an appropriate response - it's not. it's... i hope you understand that this is not [just] angering, it's horrifying and frightening, the fact that people would bring in such a level of awfulness, this degree of it, for the sake of shocking people or spite.

to those of you who have been a part of this event and are trying to be "mild" or "normal" about it - this is the company you're in. this is what the people you are willingly associating yourself with, apparently, are doing. this is what they're creating! even if you haven't had reason to so far, please really, really think about who and what you're aligning yourself with. what it is you claim is alright or acceptable or even remotely appropriate. what you're saying about yourself by being friends with these people!

and it's not about optics or friendship or sides - if you think this is about "position" at this point, or even about the dramatic and god-awful history of this fandom, i would urge you to reconsider that not from the perspective of what's happened before, but purely from the content being created and what it reflects.

please consider what these people believe - not about fanfiction, not about artistic representation, but about characters like joe, and by extension, about real people. to anticipate the argument that these are fictional characters and that fiction isn't reality - even if that was true, your readers are real. the people looking for fic in the tags are real. the harm you cause to those people is very real

please have just a moment of thinking what it means that even one (1) person was brave enough to post something like this in the tags in this event, and what it says about how they think of this character - one of the only brown muslim mlm in all of media to be in a happy and loving long-term relationship

to those of you that have had even a moment's pause when seeing this in the tags or in some server or anywhere: please, please think about it seriously and honestly and consider why that is, and why other people haven't had that pause.

if this has been explained to you at any level, told that this is to draw out those who are trying to censor or police fanfiction and creativity, consider why that might be when clearly, any attempt that has been made has been in vain if such fic exists. and maybe have a think about why this degree of violence is considered appropriate as a way to spite naysayers - and if it should be, and if you agree with that. and what it says about those explaining it to you that they are willing to accept or offer those explanations.

#the old guard fandom #tog fandom #tog discourse #// throwing myself into the lions den huh. but i just cannot take it anymore #// i am at my limit i crossed it sometime in the first week of october

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andramaquynhs · 9 months

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it's amazing how seeing ppl basically equate Andy to a traditional man still manages to ruin my day.

#i do get like self expression and exploration or whatever tf but dont claim it is how it really is. canon or whatever.#(even tho pplhave been doing that for fucking ever)#andy #mt #tog discourse #under my own art no less!

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youssefguedira · 2 years

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i don't like to talk much about discourse on this blog anymore both for personal reasons and because i am not by any meaningful metric a minority in this fandom, so this'll be my only post on this for the foreseeable future. but for me the problems that keep coming up in this fandom do seem to come from a general unwillingness to listen or change behaviour in any meaningful way, regardless of whatever "side" you consider yourself to be on. there are too many examples where people in this fandom will say that something's harmful for this reason and the response is to just double down on whatever the point of view was. again, i've seen this coming from people on all different sides of whatever debate is going on at the time. and i don't want to say it's a problem with everyone, because it isn't, but to me the reason these discussions can't ever go anywhere is because nobody is willing to take any of this on board in any useful way. and this is how we end up with so many people in this fandom being chased out. again i recognise that i am in no way the best person to talk about this and this is entirely based on my own experiences here but. it's a pattern i've been noticing.

#people who are better placed to talk about this feel free to add on if there's anything you want to but. just my two cents #tog discourse #<- for the blacklist #if you use this post to defend being racist tho in any way i will block you!#anyway as always. put some thought into what you're saying and take responsibility for what you put into the world. thanks #this isn't just applicable to what happened a few days ago this is applicable to Everywhere #and unless people listen this is never going to go anywhere

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rancido-bot · 2 years

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People will post pics of Marwan when he was completely roided and dehydrated for some film playing a boxer or whatever and pretend that's what Yusuf looks like. In turn I will now post pictures of Luca fifteen kg overweight and bursting at the seams for The Solitude of the Prime Numbers and pretend that's what Nicky looks like.

#marwan kenzari #luca marinelli #tog discourse #tog fandom

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bewires · 2 years

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Today on "words mean things actually", claiming that the term 'anti' has anything to do with being interested in discussing discrimatory works and behavior in fan spaces broadens the term "anti" so far as to be meaningless.

Again, thinking a fandom trend or an individual fandom work contains something problematic is not the same thing as wanting to censor anyone's work. It's not even the same thing as accusing the creators of being personally racist or sexist or ableist or whatever. We all reproduce the shit we grew up with occasionally without intending to. It's more a question of how you deal with it when someone has a thought like that about your work - do you double down and call anyone with critical thoughts an "anti" and reject everything they say out of hand or do you think about it?

If you're publishing work, even online, even for free, other people get to have thoughts on it, and calling everyone an "anti" regardless of what those thoughts are is needlessly reductionist and also a neat way to avoid having to self-examine your own biases

#fandom culture #fandom racism #tog discourse #antis

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sholeh675 · 2 years

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oh wow, it felt really nice to block some of the disingenuous people in this fandom on ao3 😊

Can’t believe we’re finally able to just block the people we don’t like there, hopefully this cuts down on some of the drama

#tog fandom #the old guard #tog discourse #this fandom is ridiculous #just block and move on people #don't make brain dead lists #honestly #critical thinking #curate your fandom experience

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togfandomsucks · 2 years

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tog fandom complaining and accusing never change you racist cunts lmao

#the old guard #tog #tog discourse

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highqueenofelfhame · 1 year

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I’m going to start this off by saying that I don’t care if you don’t share my sentiments because this one is a little… I think it’s going to incite a lot of opinions and that’s great, I love the discussions. This is just wholly my opinion and what I think and what I’m picking up on during my reread (relisten really) of Kingdom of Ash.

Secondly, if you like Chaol, this post probably isn’t going to be for you and that’s okay. But if you’ve been on my blog for a decent bit of time you’ll know that I don’t like him and I have so many reasons for it. I never found his character “development” to be enough for me to come around to him. I will give him credit where it’s due in this post but I just have a lot of thoughts that are so loud I wish i could pause them so I could like, finish my dinner. But I can’t because they’re screaming in my head and I have to get it out.

I’m also not here to argue about Aelin. I mean, I absolutely will, but that’s not the focus of my thoughts currently in this moment even though a lot of this is going to be focused on her and Dorian to help make my main point.

Toward the end is what I really want to focus on because I’m currently in the thick of the final battle with Aelin just having called herself a god (iconic) and Yrene is getting ready to face Erawan. So now that you know where I’m at, I’ll get into it.

I’ve noticed through my listen that at every turn, Dorian is like whats up what can I do to help this cause and help this war and help the future. I think we can all agree on that because I think we all love Dorian, I genuinely have never seen any Dorian discourse anywhere and I love that for him. He’s a cinnamon roll, we protect him. And once he and Aelin are reunited, he doesn’t spare a second thought about doing what he can to help her. Closing the gate together? He’s putting on her shoes before she’s really even finished talking and ready to go. In the battle when Elide and Yrene are like this is what we need you to do? He’s flying off without having to be asked twice, without having to even think about what he’s about to throw himself into.

Dorian’s character development is genuinely something that is great and well written and he has fully grown into the King he’s meant to be. And it’s amazing.

But at every turn when Dorian immediately says yes, Chaol immediately says no. And that’s kind of always his M.O. Chaol’s thinking has always come from a selfish place and this is something that I see in the text over and over. SJM tried to sell his character development but it’s just not there for me.

At this point in Kingdom of Ash, yes he has a lot more to lose. The stakes are a lot higher to him and I understand that. I think it’s great that he’s thinking so much for his wife and his future child and the family that they will have together.

However. There isn’t going to be a family if there’s no world left. Right? Like there isn’t going to be a baby if they don’t get out of the absolute dumpster fire their world is in right now and there are limited ways for that to happen.

He is always immediately for Dorian’s life being spared over Aelin’s. And I also do understand that to a degree. Like, that’s his best friend, that’s his brother, they’ve grown up together. But he never thought about this other person that he considers to be his friend when it came down to it.

This is when I’ll bring up Aelin because it’s relevant to her and Dorian in the last several chapters of this book but also to her character. I can’t stand it when people say she’s selfish when she’s proved time and time again that she’s incredibly selfless. Like if you think she’s selfish you’re reading the words but not seeing the actions, you know? Especially in Kingdom of Ash but in everything leading up to it.

When she’s in the coffin the only thing keeping her going is knowing that she is the person that is going to have to end it all. She’s going to have to give her life so that everyone she loves and all the people of their entire world will have a better one. She’s been resigned to that for a while. It’s why she didn’t bother fighting Maeve when she was captured on the beach, it’s why she didn’t care if she made it out alive at the end of Heir of Fire when she walked out to face the demon princes. Not only does she have pisspoor mental health and does a lot of suicide missions, but she’s doing it all with the thought of the people she loves in mind. And I think Dorian had a lot of similar motivations in KoA, especially considering he destroyed Morath for his father (whom he still hated.)

The two of them have always been thinking about the bigger picture, about the future, about the future generations. Even Dorian entirely walked away from Manon offering him literally everything because he knew it wasn’t what she truly wanted, and knew that it would be something of a prison to her, no matter how much he might love that future for himself. Dorian didn’t walk into Morath with selfish motivations. He walked in there not even really truly knowing what was going on with Aelin at the time, knowing that at the end of the day he could be the one having to sacrifice his life to close the gate. He also knew if he was caught he would have another collar put around his neck or be killed. But he did it anyway.

Chaol, while I understand that his stakes are much higher right now, he’s still like really only thinking about the situation as it pertains to him and what he wants. He wants Dorian to live, he doesn’t want Yrene to face Erawan knowing that she’s like the only person that can truly defeat him at this point. And again, I understand it. I understand the selfish motivations here but it also just goes back to not feeling like he had much character development.

He’s not entirely the same as he was at the beginning. I don’t think anyone can go through what they’ve gone through and come out the same on the other side. It’s just not possible. But I also don’t think his development has gone far enough to cancel out the wrongs, the hurtful shit he’s said, the prejudice he’s shown specifically to fae and magic wielders. Like, he only decided Rowan was a good male when Rowan tried to heal him at the end of QoS. Which again: only pertains to him and his perception on things which is a very tight circle around himself.

If he truly had any regard for Aelin he would have had a hesitation, even a little bit, when she was the one that was like okay yeah I’m going to die. There would have been something there, some objection, but there wasn’t. Dude never even said sorry for anything he had said to her when he made her feel like a monster. And that’s just a whole other level of fucked up that I’m not going to get into right now.

Even Rowan, knowing his mate was sacrificing herself, he still acknowledged that it was her choice, that he never lets her do anything, and he came to some sort of place of acceptance. Was he devastated? Absolutely he was. He didn’t know if his tattoo would work or if her and Dorian doing it together would keep them both alive, but he supported her decisions as much as he didn’t like them. Because he also understands what is at stake and that it’s just bigger than them. He was straight up like if she doesn’t come out, I’m going to die too and I’ll find her in the afterworld. Is that selfish? Sure. But there were other people that, if Aelin had died, could rule Terrasen if they succeeded and closing the gate had gone how it was supposed to (with Erawan being taken out with the gods.) But my point is he still supported that, he accepted it.

But I just don’t see the development from Chaol that we were supposed to see. When Yrene wants to face Erawan, he just keeps trying to shut it down. Because Chaol refuses to see outside of his bubble. Yrene knows what’s at stake. She knows she’s carrying their child, she knows she loves this man something fierce, but she also knows that none of that is going to matter if they don’t win the war, if she doesn’t at least try to take out Erawan when she’s capable.

And like the badass that she is she fucking does it like a queen.

I will do another post on Aelin’s selflessness one of these days and I will bring receipts with quotes and page numbers to go along with it. I feel like I’m getting into rambling territory. But all of this is just to say that I simply don’t see Chaol’s character development in terms of him not being selfish.

I may add more to this later, it’s late and I need to eat my dinner. Thanks to autism, my thoughts were so loud I couldn’t even focus on eating and the only way to make them relax a little was by getting them out of my brain and onto a page.

Anyway, I still don’t like chaol. And I’m not even on a fresh chaol hate-train. I haven’t read this full series in over a year but relistening has just like further solidified for me that he just really hasn’t changed that much. Not nearly as much as SJM wanted us to think, anyway.

And I still think that Yrene, the brilliant healer, getting pregnant was the silliest story line.

But also like how can Yrene defeat a valg king while pregnant but Feyre’s healers couldn’t do a fuckin c-section? Hello?????

Okay that’s all.

Love u bye

#hot tea and hotter takes #hot tea & hotter takes #sjm #dorian havilliard #rowan whitethorn #aelin galathynius #yrene towers #tog #throne of glass #heir of fire #queen of shadows #kingdom of ash #fandom discourse #not tagging chaol because i don't want to add anti shit to his tag that people enjoy

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thesistersarcheron · 1 year

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Is SJM aware that she hates librarians, or is this her subconscious at work?

#there is not a single remotely nice librarian in throne of glass #rhys says all of the qualified librarians prior to repurposing the house of wind library were stuffy old traditionalists #the only sympathetic librarians she writes are the ones who incidentally became librarians after experiencing *extreme* trauma #even then… poor merrill exists and gets her name dragged through the mud #and then sjm (arguably!!!) punished nesta by making her work in a library #jesiba houses the lost library in crescent city and she’s definitely not kind or (possibly) even very good #anyway #justice for nousha #she’s just doing her job AND her shift was literally ending when chaol and yrene decided to harass her 😭#this is it. this is the meaningless sjm universe discourse that i’m going to claim as my pet project.#i’m glad we haven’t visited the day court yet because sjm needs to check herself before she wrecks herself by writing HELION’s librarians #as uptight a-holes #this is my tog liveblogging tag

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goldheartedsky · 8 months

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I'm gonna go ahead and say it but everyone who leaves Booker out of group art, just because they don't 'like' him, is an absolute clown. You might not like the bastard but he is part of the team and is literally driving the whole damn plot!

#the old guard #tog discourse #I don't even give a fuck that y'all are so wrapped up in your 'fandom as activism' clownery but I WILL call you out on it

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mearchy · 2 years

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you know actually i think part of me really not liking the MCU fandom harkens back to that post i made once about how after being in the old guard and black sails and our flag means death and the magnus archives and arcane fandoms it’s really hard for me to engage creatively with media that settles for less than explicit representation (barring my special interest). like it’s very hard for me to enthusiastically embrace pieces of media the way i used to and overlook the ways they fail to represent me. i’ve seen it done so many times now, in so many ways. i’ve seen the kinds of stories that can be told with good representation and still succeed. i can’t forgive marvel any longer for keeping that from me. so like yes i will watch the source media, but i’m not going to put my own creative or personal energy into it in any way, including engaging with the fandom. i can’t idolize it the way i used to and i won’t take part in the gay shipping and trans headcanoning the characters who Marvel never bothered to actually write into their stories. it just feels like doing the work for them.

#to be CLEAR i’m not saying other people shouldn’t do that #i’m just saying that part of me maturing #has been realizing that it’s not worth it and there’s no excuse on marvel’s part #god bless the action and fantasy media that DOES give us the rep we deserve #discourse #marvel #mcu #tog #the old guard #black sails #the magnus archives #tma #ofmd #our flag means death #arcane #my special interest is star wars so you can once again thank disney for the lack of representation lmao #mine #my meta

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andramaquynhs · 1 year

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Shit sucks but at least joeicky lost the sun moon poll <3

#wouldn't have said shit or known shit if it wasnt shared where it shouldn't #holy fuck #anyway i dont give two fucks about spirk but spirk my beloved <3 #tog discourse

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isabellehemlock · 2 years

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I started this post so many times, kept erasing, praying, contemplating, discerning, trying to rise above it but the fact that it still is impacting me this much leads me to believe that maybe it's important to speak up on at least once - maybe there's someone out there who this post is meant to find, someone to feel less alone.

I'm not going to trauma dump, or out my own history on a public blog, and I'll use my "I" statements here but here it goes:

TW: fandom discourse, processing feelings around a non con fic, one mention of the word rape, but non descriptive of the contents of the fic

I am so disheartened to see holy places within my faith used as settings for rape - not even under the premise of maybe some cases being processing some kind of personal trauma through writing - but for insidious purposes, to encourage mocking and cheering as both a sacred space and a person is being desecrated against their will.

I would hope this wouldn't be found acceptable in any faith, in any sacred spaces.

I also realize that in comparison, the bigger and most important issue to address are the patterns of racism and bias that a handful of people have latched onto and felt emboldened to continue for years now - but I am also aware that I should never speak over/for someone with personal experience of racism and wanted to keep the focus of this post on what I can speak on.

#valid critiques on organized religion are one thing #i have had spiritual abuse too and i empathize #but i do not believe this was what that fic was about - not about healing or processing -#it felt like shock value and to tick off as many boxes as possible #some of you have become so desensitized to watching as many people in fandom as possible -#only to churn it into spite events #that you seem to have forgotten - that we can see you too #this is about a tog fandom event - and the third sign in 24hrs i received that i am on the right path . . . out the door #wrapping up some things through the end of the year and that's it i fear #fandom discourse #fandom stuff #mention of:#rape #religion #<- non descriptive but for anyone who needs to filter this post out #i realize this post could likely lead to me being unfollowed or block and I respect whatever boundary someone needs #i also know that this likley going to change zilch - or worse - i will (again) be called *sensitive* *judgemental* or worse names #but that's how important this was to me #i will take the risk #hope for the best

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