#two antagonists turned redeemed little guys

[mooseonahunt]

Gonna start spreading my "Sixty and Gavin are great friends" propaganda here, too. I think they would have such a funny dynamic and, at least with all my headcanons that I've tricked myself into believing are true, they'd have a lot in common.

All that to say I wrote a fic where Sixty is really sad and Gavin comforts him and helps him through this tough moment. I'm so incredibly soft for them I cannot overstate how much they're just constantly on the mind

Found family trope my beloved

#genuinely think they'd be amazing friends #two antagonists turned redeemed little guys #maybe next i'll write a fic with gav sixty and tina hanging out #theres not enough content under the Cyberlife Tower Connor | RK800-60&Gavin Reed tag on Ao3 #i am providing for my people #dbh #detroit become human #dbh sixty #dbh rk800 60 #rk800 60 #dbh gavin reed #dbh gavin #theyre best friends your honour

[strangestcase]

I could write an extremely long list of the reasons why the pop culture depiction of Hyde as unequivocally a monster and/or a whole self-aware entity overtaking Jekyll makes me upset.

The one I've only now realized, however, is that it robs Hyde of agency, and thus makes him a much less compelling character.

If you portray Hyde as a monster to be vanquished, an evil to be defeated, a violence that has to be stopped, does he even get to choose what he does, what he is? A lot of adaptations do this, to some extent- most have Hyde be either killed by another character (usually as self-defense, and I can't blame them), or have Jekyll decide to do what, in the book, couldn't bring himself to do (kill himself to destroy Hyde).

Hyde choosing to die, deciding that it will spare him of the shame and indignity of being executed, and, even worse, of being sent to the gallows by Utterson, might have been an impulse decision, but do you really expect Hyde to think things through? As Jekyll puts in in the final narration, a panicking Hyde is a cornered animal, and whatever happens to Jekyll is ultimately the choice of a cornered animal with very little options, none of them a dignified death.

I wouldn't say it is a redeeming act- Hyde is selfish. He is centered only on himself... on theory, at least. According to his thought process, it's either dying, or having to watch his best friend hand him over to the authorities, and then dying either way, and he's not having that, not when they're axing down the door and might be in physical danger anyway.

Hyde might be a monster, but there's enough humanity in him. And that's what makes him a compelling character and an effective villain to begin with; we're not talking about a force of pure evil that just so happened to awaken in Jekyll's body, we're talking about a privileged man that has realized nothing holds him back when certain conditions are met, and as it turns out, what he is in that state is a monster. He's not human like us, emphasis on like us.

Here is where you have to distinguish Hyde-as-a-concept (what he is) from Hyde-as-a-character (who he is). Hyde-as-a-character is the antagonist. Hyde-as-a-character is Jekyll. Hyde-as-a-concept, however, is... harder to jot down.

If you write it down that Hyde-as-a-concept is The Bad Guy, an evil taking residence in Jekyll, that's all he's going to be. "Evil" is where his character starts, not where it ends. I'm not saying that all adaptations make this mistake- even if you decide all he is is evil, you can still make him a compelling character and a great villain. But the point here is, if Hyde-as-a-concept is not Jekyll, if he is not a person with a background and a fully fleshed out personality behind all that eeeeeevil, he is just the monster of the week, and all he's narratively good for is either keep terrifying everyone or be defeated.

The fact that the OG Hyde-as-a-concept isn't defeated, that he isn't a monster to vanquish by a third party but a metaphorical entity (addiction itself!) that Jekyll has to battle, manage, and subdue, as part of his arc, even if it's one of decadence, gives him depth. It's somewhat ironic that precisely because Hyde isn't a "real" person (being Jekyll's persona in a Watsonian sense and Jekyll's struggles with addiction and what it means to be a bad person in a Doylist sense) he is a more real presence, a fully fleshed character (...no duh since he's Jekyll, in a different font), and a person with agency rather than a two-dimensional boogeyman.

#anyway. rant over! #jekyll and hyde weekly #jekyll and hyde #the strange case of dr jekyll and mr hyde #dr jekyll and mr hyde #jh #long post

[yandere-romanticaa]

I wanna watch puss in boots but im not sure if its worth it yk😭😭

Well, I have an excuse to share this TikTok now! But, I'll give you a legit answer - it really is worth the watch.

EDIT: OH MY GOD, I didn't even realize that I went on about this, my bad. Everything is under the cut if you're interested, kinda spoilers for who the wolf really is but chances are that you already know.

I watched the first movie when it came out and while I sadly don't remember it too well, I can tell you that it was fun. A solid movie, nothing groundbreaking but still really fun and cute.

However, Puss in Boots 2 is a delight that I never saw coming.

Something I realized as I'm writing this is that there are a lot of characters in this movie, like, a lot. We have 3 sets of antagonists, Kitty Softpaws, Perrito and Puss himself and some side characters which we see as well. For most movies it's really difficult to develop just one character let alone this many but I have to give a shout out to the antagonists because geez, I love them all.

The Wolf is by far my favorite and I kind of regret being spoiled by social media of who he really is. His presence alone is so chilling, every time the guy is on screen the entire movie suddenly turns into a horror flick! What I also love is how not evil he is and let me explain that a little better.

Yes, he is Death but he ended up helping Puss in the long run. If it weren't for him Puss would have never realized that he already had everything he wanted and would have thrown it all away by making that wish. Death ended up giving him some "tough love" in a way. Sure, he openly enjoys hunting Puss but that is because Death has his own moral code and he sticks to it throughout the entire film. He is an antagonist but he is not a villain, not like Humpty. He reprimands Puss for wasting his life away but in the final battle when Puss realizes that there are indeed people waiting for him and that he has a chance to live a full and true life, Death no longer wishes to fight him. He instead turns his back and says something along the lines of "I shouldn't have played with my food!" and doesn't bother Puss anymore. After all, Death came to take a cocky little legend into the afterlife, not whoever this new Puss in Boots is. Death walks away like the legend that he is, while telling Puss that they will meet again no matter what happens and Puss accepts this. Just overall great writing for both Puss and Death!

Humpty is the true antagonist of the movie and he is hilarious. He's that kind of villain that's there for you to root for his downfall while also delivering some solid comedy while he is at it. He became even better when that green little cricket was with him, that's absolute gold right there.

Goldilocks and the three bears made me tear up, hah. They are I guess what you would say "redeemable villains" but I don't think that description fits them well, if anyone has anything better to add you are more than welcome to do so. This group is the perfect example of the "found family" trope and I am here for it, the ending was so so sweet and I just!! Loved it!!

I also must give a special shout out to Kitty and Perrito, those two are heroes in their own right! That scene in which Puss is having a panic attack and Perrito finds him and comforts him is just... He is a good boy, he deserves everything! And Kitty, oh my. She endured so much and still managed to come on top in the end is just amazing.

This movie really is perfect for the whole family. It doesn't talk down to kids about the more serious subject matters which it tackles but it's colorful and entertaining in the best way possible. Even the adults have something to look forward to because while the main target audience are children, it's still not childish, it's the perfect golden middle.

My only complaint would probably be that the ending felt a little rushed and that Puss's stay in that cat hotel felt a bit dragged out but other than that, I have nothing else to add. I'd rate this movie a 9.5/10, it's just a wonderful experience overall.

#puss in boots 2 #puss in boots #girlie says #anon asks #perrito #death puss in boots #kitty softpaws

[p5x-theories]

Further thoughts on Joker as a potential antagonist

While it seems that gun is considered Wonder’s main element (according to the character viewer) Janosik still has a bless affinity.  This contrasts with Joker who has Arsene, Satanael, and Raoul, all with a curse affinity.  It’s possible that this is just because Wonder is supposed to be a contrasting sequel protagonist to Joker, but what if there’s more to it?

Having a light-based protagonist makes darkness an obvious choice for the element of an antagonist.  And if we assume that this is set after the Deal with Yaldabaoth ending and Joker is going to be an enemy then things fall into place quite nicely him to be the twist villain!

Of course, if this is true I’d like to see Joker redeem himself and join the party for the finale, but even if he doesn’t it would still be possible for him to be a Phantom Idol.  But even if it isn’t true it would still be cool to have an older Joker involved in the story.  First I speculate about multiple Akechi units, now multiple Joker units, is it too much?  But if anyone is getting multiple units it’s them.

As an aside Wonder is the third bless user with red hair in the P5 sub-series.  Is it because they’re all meant to complement Joker’s palette, or is it just a coincidence?

But this is all speculation built upon speculation.  I gotta stop writing P5X’s story in my head or I’m gonna be disappointed when it comes out and does something entirely different.

Haha, I completely feel that! It’s so easy to get carried away by speculation and excitement that I sometimes worry I’m setting myself up for the same thing (building something up in my head and then being disappointed it’s not that).

Anyway, on to your actual theory- definitely agree that Wonder using Bless would be a good way to set up an antagonist (in this theory’s case, Joker) using Curse. Arguably, P5 did the opposite, aligning Yaldabaoth (and, honestly, Robin Hood, though he has both Bless and Curse) with Bless by having many of the shadow minibosses leading up to fighting him be angels, and generally the holy, golden deity vibe. So whether or not Joker is an antagonist, I would definitely expect whatever godlike being is behind all this in P5X (as well as probably their human puppet/counterpart) to use Curse, and maybe be more demonic in theming by comparison.

Also agree I’d probably want to see the theoretical antagonist Joker join the party sometime after getting beaten, and work with them to undo some of what he’d done, because it’d sit a little weird with me to have him completely be an antagonist to the end (and also it’d be fun to have “evil” Joker be playable, haha). Though I’m also somewhat biased, because I like it when characters do something, then start to regret it, and suddenly find themselves switching sides to fix it! I guess the one thing they’d have to be careful of is not letting an antagonist Joker end up coming across too much like Akechi, given those two already have the whole “two sides of the same coin” thing going on, with Akechi sort of already being an “antagonist Joker” in a loose sense of the words. As much as I’d like to see Joker be the bad guy here, I don’t really want it to feel like they’re just turning him into Akechi, haha.

The red-haired bless user thing is also a really funny pattern. I think the fact that Violet and Sophie use Bless is in both cases to cover the fact that Crow was originally the “Bless teammate” in the original P5, but Royal sort of... changes that... and then he’s not even in Strikers, so in both cases if they were going to add at least one new teammate, it’d be super weird to not give a proper source of Bless attacks, I suppose. Doesn’t quite explain the obsession with giving them red hair (Violet’s maybe to match the red gloves? Sophie’s because her pigtails are heart-shaped, so they’re red hearts, perhaps?), so I’m not sure whether it was intentional or not though I’d be surprised if they were entirely unaware they keep doing that. One thing about that that I find particularly entertaining is their Phantom Thief outfits by comparison- Violet’s is black, Sophie’s is white, and Wonder’s is grey (granted, a dark grey, but still). We’ve got a sort of 50 Shades of Red-Haired Bless Teammate outfit collection building here, haha.

#submission #theories #joker

[unproduciblesmackdown]

I've always thought that picture of Mr. Maccabee kissing (his clone??) was of Cyril Von Miserthorpe and I'm not sure how I really didn't pay attention to the costuming at all. Does this make him canonically queer too?

yeah let's look at it again ='] true Love Wins material

and let's go ahead and enjoy a pic of will as cyril von miserthorpe not because i'm going "um HOW could you mistake them" but b/c yeah sure, a reference and potential introduction, really i'm just grabbing an opportunity to post about him too. icon

that perfect "i peed in it" spittake as like, one of the crispest cyril pics lol. wherein yeah the villains have a mostly or all black outfit, cyril's involving the hat and suit jacket, and even when he has his Redeemed turn, he has a hat (red) and suit jacket (green)

vs the mister maccabee look as hatless with a brown vest, white buttonup ft. what's especially distinctive here, namely, the sleeve garters, and of course also a stache but always part of the costume vs the actor's actual facial hair

(like how i ingeniously included cyril there while showing eric william morris mister maccabee as a demonstration of the costuming consistencies / patterns? i appreciate it. ft george salazar mister chestnut up there too, hey pal)

of course i have no idea if there's always some part of the show with a Second mister maccabee for some reason, but sure was the case here. and i'm all the less sure if they always kiss or even if that was scripted, given that i feel like there's some particularly spontaneous delight in onlooker expressions here, joe and lauren for instance lol. i also saved these ton of william mister maccabee / uncle peenie pictures in order, and the Two Mister Maccabees Kiss photo is immediately preceded by this one:

where, you know, literal snapshot w/no further context but looking a little pensive there, perhaps simply reflecting on Something. also: lauren at the very bottom there giving him that Look lol. a twist on a pagliacci moment, like, oh no mister maccabee needs some cheering up / encouragement / guidance?? well here's mister maccabee to do it. let's look at it again, it's the next slide and all

again really it's the arm garters that give it away. although i also have to add that it would be entirely appropriate for cyril von miserthorpe as the christmas extravaganza antagonist to kiss mister maccabee, the show's like, mentor deuteragonist lol. symbolic.

there's also this pic that seems to feature Both Mister Maccabees again:

next to each other, fourth and fifth from left there. looks like the same Other Actor as well, from what can be seen of the hair and glasses. and that again they've both got the sleeve garters lol. iconic

bonus: an uncle peenie pic as well, while we're at it

compare with:

also one ft. his mom

as for the last point, lbh you know that at the very least mister maccabee is an ally so powerful he's honorarily queer. one could also look to how, in videos of ewm mister maccabee's being the Sexy Dancer performing here comes santa claus, his sexy interactions with audience members are indiscriminate, and there was that one very funny time some front and center audience member guy was so threatened by this performance that he adamantly avoids looking at the proceedings right up until the point santa is actually introduced. very powerful. i'd kill for will roland footage and shoutout to his butt in the [what if we kissed 😳 and we're both mister maccabee] picture, respectfully, but truly the inherent sexiness of the role never stops, is a whole part of the comedy lol, that he's still so Mister Maccabee about it when jumping right into the super sexy intro number. but anyways, genuinely yes i would be on the affirmative argument side that mister maccabee kissing mister maccabee is indeed a [he's canonically queer] iconic moment

#joe iconis christmas extravaganza #cyril von miserthorpe #will roland #joe iconis #speaking of winging spellings; i suppose one could render it uncle pini #also that uncle peenie is in a Tank Top there. also super sexy. #we do get some will roland uncle peenie pelvic gyrations via video lmao like mister maccabee's got that to offer us too #love the nice crisp video of that older ewm performance of the number as well #got that clip posted where his ''he's got a sack. of toys'' towards one guy just makes everyone crack up. me as well; the humor and delight #also shoutout to the time i honed in on someone in the audience of a twenty nineteen here comes santa claus clip #and i was like i love their energy They Get It. only to learn it was preexisting online mutual al pomegrantaire lmao. we're out here

[moiloru]

Food Wars! Review!

Hello! In today's anime review, I'll be talking about an anime centered around food: Food Wars!

As you've probably guessed by the title, Food Wars! (or Shokugeki no Souma) is an anime about food. Yeah, very surprising, I know. It has five seasons (it's really six, but one's split into two arcs for some reason) of either 24 (S1 and S3) or 12-13 episodes. It's a good old Shounen taking place at a school with a good dose of humor. Good old recipe (see what I did there?).

So, let's start off with Season One, shall we? I liked that it took the time to introduce the main characters who will appear all throughout the anime, as well as the setting. That way, you have a solid grasp of who's who and what's what. The fanservice really catches you off-guard at first, but you're quick to get used to it and find it amusing. Warning, though: watch this anime with HEADPHONES or watch it ALONE. Just saying.

Season Two was excellent. For me, it's undoubtedly the best season of the whole show, with peak suspense and some of the most intense moments in the anime. It's unpredictable, adds some new really good characters, sets up some new rivalries and dynamics, etc. In addition to that, the plot remains simple and straightforward, which is obviously best in an anime that relies so much on its cast. You don't have to think, just enjoy.

Season Three is where issues start to come up. It is split into two arcs, but they both share the same flaws. Mainly, the anime loses all its unpredictability, which takes some enjoyment away. After all, when you know who's gonna win before a battle even starts, it's not as interesting, right? Luckily, the already-introduced cast is still great, but for one specific character who gets turned into a jerk. Another flaw of this third season is the new antagonist introduced. Let's put it bluntly: they're not that good. It's the usual evil-looking character who's related to one of the good guys and will haunt them only to give them some development. It's still a good season, though!

I was worried at the beginning of Season Four, and honestly thought the anime was losing steam. Still, with a nice ending, this season redeemed itself and managed to (somewhat) recover from the mess of the previous one with the antagonist. It's still a little predictable, though not as much. Also, the protagonist gets perhaps more development than in any other season, which positively surprised me. Honestly, the ending of this fourth season really had the vibes of the final ending - and frankly... it probably should have been.

Season Five is the final season. Ironically, even though I believe it was one season too many and that the plot had already been sufficiently covered in the previous four seasons, it's still really good. The ending is, at least. The rest's okay. The new antagonist sucks a lot, though, on top of being even more ridiculous than the aforementioned one. One big plus, however: it gave solid development to one main character I was struggling to thoroughly enjoy before. It closes off the anime nicely with a satisfying conclusion that, while not perfect, remains pretty good.

This anime's first and main strength is how good the characters are. None of them are absolutely superb, but there are only few who really suck. The cast is complementary, has good and developing dynamics, and some neat rivalries! The protagonist is your usual dumbass, but he's fun.

Musically, this anime's fine. It doesn't have any memorable tracks, but none that irritated my ears, either. All openings are very solid, though, and really catchy. The animation is not the best, though that doesn't mean it's ugly at all.

Now, this anime has a lot of fanservice, so that's something to keep in mind. It's not invasive at first (and it's one of the gimmicks of this anime), but I have to say it gets a little more extreme in the last two seasons for a reason that's not explained extremely well. It fits with the silliness of the plot and characters, though.

Overall, Food Wars is a very good anime. It has some great moments, great characters, funny quirks, and if you enjoy eating, it should make your mouth water. You might also learn a thing or two! I strongly recommend it. It's a fun time.

Down below is the tierlist containing all the characters! Thank you for reading this review!

#soma yukihira #megumi tadokoro #erina nakiri #takumi aldini #food wars #shokugeki no souma #anime #anime review #tierlist #tier list

[mrstsung]

My dudes n pals. Imma talk about my fave writing archtypes rn. :

If you're gonna corrupt someone. Do it right. Make sure you take your sweet time with it. Marinate and season it. Let it stew. Hand craft their demise into darkness with care. Then hit your reader with a freight train of feels. Make them feel all the stages of grief at once. Then as soon as they least suspect it. Have the character,gloriously die in the hands of their own fate peacefully. With a smile on their face.

This. This is the hero turned bad stories i crave. Because they don't back track out of being bad. They own it. And die by it. And they don't regret a fucking thing.

This is the corrupt fallen hero stories i love.

Because if they are gonna turn "evil" by god they are gonna do it good.

But on the opposite side of the coin.

I love a good antagonist become good. Slowly but surely all the darkness they once had...slowly but surely fizzles away. Be it by one person,a friend,a lover,a former enemy. Or an ideal because if they die,who would rule? If the world perishes? Where wpuld they have their kingdom? But in that turn....they find out that ruling things is boring without company. So they gain allies. They start to love life again. They start to see the light in the darkness,even if it's only a small flame. But that flame is still theirs to own.

And our former villain/antagonist if they are put on this path by a person or persons. They start to see. Not everyone is so bad.

Will they change? Well that's to be debated. But ever so briefly,we the readers can witness....their eyes glow a bit softer. And become the person they once was before their fall.

And sometimes my friends.

These two archtypes?

They are one in the same.

And then we get into some juicy storytelling.

The rise,the fall,the healing,then the ascent. This is the most classic journey story. But it's better when you divert the audiences expectations without falling too much on tropes. Or at least making said tropes....interesting.

But not all heroes rise back up. And not all villains completely redeemed. But they do get a little bit wiser in their respective ways.

And that is something to be hopeful for in a way. But it also highlights that morality is a choice and not at the hands of others. And it also shows master of ones fate. And karma. Like i could go on and on.

But these are the stories i live for.

I love a good redeemed bad guy. But i loooooove a bad guy who isn't 100% good again. And just genuinely finds one person in their life worth it all.

And i love a good guy who becomes corrupt but struggles to crawl back up. But can't because the damage is too great. And he's not entirely wrong about it either. And tho you disagree with the way he does it....you can't help but cry,pity,or even mourn at his decent. Because this could have been you.

God. I love this stuff so much.

But enough of me rambling about this.

I hope maybe this inspires y'all?

Maybe i gave you some creative ideas?

I hope so. I can't wait to read what you guys have.

This isn't just mortal kombat related. This can be anything.

💖 luv y'all be safe. And happy writing.

#admin talks #writing #ah yes the heroes journey and decent #and the villains healing and redemption #good shit right there #☕

[acrossthewavesoftime]

I keep meaning to ask you— who would you choose as the “villain” of AMC’s Turn? I admit I HATED Simcoe when I was watching it but I admit you have softened my stance a bit ;)

That's a very good question!

Honestly? If I had to pick?

None.

Please hear me out on this one- I am a person who generally tends to prefer the antagonist(s) in a story to the supposed 'hero(es)', and am certainly fond of an entertaining villain. Funnily, Simcoe, the very character I am going to argue against, was the initial reason why I kept watching Turn beyond the pilot episode; I didn't like Abe one bit, but the deliciously evil spectre with the unnatural voice and eye colour had captured my attention.

That said, speaking from a historical perspective, I don't think the story of Turn requires a 'villain' at all, and might even have benefitted from having none, seeing as the show tried to sell itself as giving a more balanced outlook on the period and its protagonists than the usual very obviously flag-flying, bald eagle pro-American stance you tend to find in Revolutionary War-related fiction (I am looking at you, The Patriot!).

In my opinion Turn, despite its intentions, went down the same road; take a look at the British and Loyalist characters: they only turn sympathetic once they are in some way, shape or form being useful to "The Cause" (see e.g. Mary shooting Simcoe, Rivington allowing Robert to continue printing the signal books on his printing press and subsequently being 'redeemed' by Washington etc.) or when they're conventionally attractive and needed to bait a viewer base who watches historical dramas for the love and courtship in silk stockings and ballgowns (Peggy Shippen, André).

Additionally, all the major villains are (or in Roger's case, were) British officers: Simcoe, Rogers, and Arnold.

Most British characters are fairly cheap cardboard cut-outs rather than carefully developed characters; André is the Designated Hot Straight Guy, Clinton the stereotypical Hail-Fellow-Well-Met Posh Englishman (But With A Twist: This Man Is Gay AND European!*), and Simcoe is just a messy caricature of Every Villain-Trope Ever.

If they had developed the British and Loyalist characters with a little more care and a little truer to their historical counterparts, I don't think having a designated villain would have been necessary, because the story of two sides of the same conflict (clandestinely) working against each other, not with any intentions of personal malice, but from a place where both parties hold the firm conviction that they are on the right side of history and working towards what is 'good' or 'right', would have been intriguing on its own.

You are looking for names, though, and names you shall receive. If I were in charge of writing a TV series set in the Revolutionary War and wanted a ragingly unsympathetic British antagonist without having to resort to gross fictionalisation, I would go for Francis Rawdon Hastings. I don't want to quote it here, but there is a letter to his uncle, I believe, in which he is being extremely smug and cheerful about British troops (presumably including himself) doing very, very, very horrible things to local women. Simcoe tried to get on his good side (likely because he held the firm belief that mingling with the right people would get him in all the right places) in later years and made him godfather of one of his sons. All Rawdon did on that front was introducing young Francis Gwillim Simcoe to an expensive, dissipated lifestyle fuelled by copious drink and expensive clothes that caused Elizabeth Simcoe to strongly resent Rawdon for showing her son, then on his first commission and away from home, a way of life that was neither healthy nor realistically affordable. My verdict: 0/10, no empathy or sense of personal responsibility. Not a nice guy.

If you are looking for incompetence rather than brutality, might I propose "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne during the Saratoga campaign? When you're an 18th century general and the wives of your subordinates start standing up to and berating you, you know you've messed up. One of his subordinates at the time, William Phillips, even told the lady in question, Friederike Charlotte Riedesel, whose husband commanded the Braunschweiger Jäger, that she would have made a better General than Burgoyne, who, according to these two, was a bit too fond of partying the nights away with his mistress du jour rather than committing himself whole-heartedly to the care of his army and coming up with a strategy to win the war. My verdict: A 0-star general, but a five star drama queen.

Sorry, this got a bit long- I hope I answered your question though; you just happened to touch upon a subject I have thought about a lot watching the series. :-)

*And neither is disgrace!

#ask #ask reply #benjhawkins #turn amc #turn washington's spies #r rambles #revolutionary war #american revolution #amrev

[hello-nichya-here]

Sorry for being abrasive, but why is it that you avoid any works that try to deal with the comics? Because, and this is directed towards Azula stans in general and not just you, if we keep avoiding the comics &/or engaging in canon denialism in general, doesn't it feed into Azula Anti's beliefs that Azula stans just only like the image of Azula in their heads as well as allow the antis to control the discourse? 1/2

2/2 And this is bad since Bryke is obviously influenced by social media and thus us allowing the antis to control the discourse will led them to continue portraying Azula in a "bad" way? Or at least continue to portray Azula as the one dimensional power hungry Joker clone that they have been doing post-TV show and not as the complex character that we fell in love with?

***

I fucking wish that the whole disaster with Azula was my only problem with the comics. That is just a symptom of why I don't consider them canon - the actual reason for it is because the writers completely lost track of who the characters and themes in the story are.

Aang is a pacifist, one of Zuko's closest friends, and spared Ozai's life, even though the fucker is one of the most evil people ever. The comics made him agree to kill Zuko if he turned into a second Ozai, even though he was still refusing to kill Ozai.

Mai and Zuko's relationship became a shitty attempt a doing a Will-They-Won't-They romance, and in true Ross and Rachel fashion only made the two of them, especially Mai, look like horrible people.

Ursa was canonically willing to kill for her children, and despite her mistakes as a mother you could still see that she WAS trying to guide Azula towards the right path. In the comics she basically acts like Azula isn't even her kid, writes letter (that she KNOWS Ozai is going to read) saying that Zuko is actually a bastard, goes away without saying a single word of goodbye to Azula and only accidentally having one last interaction with Zuko (which directly contradicts what we saw in Zuko Alone with her intentionally waking him up to say goodbye), she chooses to forget everything about her life despite telling Zuko "Never forget who you are", and when she recovered her memories she didn't give a shit that Azula (who is mentally unstable) is running around all alone, and doesn't even fucking ask how the hell Zuko got that scar on his face.

Ikem, Ursa's new husband and alleged good guy, deliberately tries to prevent her from regaining her memories, even though he knows there's two traumatized kids that just want their mother back, because what if she likes the kids she had with Ozai more than the one she had with him?

And last but not least, Zuko and the Gaang, the supposed good guys, the characters we all grew to love, throw Azula, a 14-year-old girl and Zuko's little sister, in an abusive asylum where she's constantly being physically abused and restrained even when she is not doing anything, forget about her for an entire year, immediately start partaking in said abuse once they finally see her - because they need something. Azula is then shown as the bad guy for thinking they're full of shit when they say they want to help her, even though anyone with half a brain can tell she is 100% right. This isn't justice, and considering Azula can't tell what's real or understand why they're doing what they're doing it isn't even revenge. Is the Gaang being cruel for the sake of being cruel - which is completely out of character for every single one of them. I remind you that this was written by the same men who, even when Zuko was at his lowest, made sure the audience never forgot that the abuse he endured wasn't okay just because he was antagonist. That was completely lost in the comics AND was replaced by a fuck-ton of ableism and victim blaming, because "Well, she is a bad guy, so it makes sense that the Gaang is supporting her being abused"

I love Azula, but even with her sympathetic background and redeeming qualities, the whole time I was watching the show I was rooting for the Gaang whenever there was any conflict between them. In the comics, I was 1000% on her side, and the most satisfying moment was seeing her redirect Zuko's lightning right in his fucking face. All because that storyline assassinated the heroes' characters so badly, that Azula, even at her worse, became the sympathetic underdog by default.

Bryke are grown ass men. If they can't separate entitled fans from genuine criticism, and will "punish" all the fans by reducing the characters to shitty parodies of themselves, essentially acting like two toddlers throwing a tantrum because their mom didn't let them have cookies before dinner, that's on them. I'm not gonna stop complaining that they ruined Zuko's character out of fear that they'll undo his redemption arc and/or decide that it was actually his fault that Ozai abused him. The same applies to what they're doing to Azula.

I won't pretend their retcons are canon and that the terrible writting decisions they made are actually good out of fear that they'll do something worse. I don't care if they created my favorite characters and my favorite show, if their writing gets so bad that it makes me wish I was watching the Shyamalan movie, I'm gonna call them out on it because holy shit what the fuck happened?

#asks #azula meta #azula deserved better #atla comics #the comics suck #bryke critical #atla fandom problems #fuck this fandom #there are no comics in ba sing se #ableism #abuse mention #zuko deserved better #the gaang deserved better #i deserved better

[renegadewangs]

Van Zieks - the Examination, part 12

Warnings: SPOILERS for The Great Ace Attorney: Chronicles. Additional warning for racist sentiments uttered by fictional characters (and screencaps to show these sentiments).

Disclaimer: (see Part 1 for the more detailed disclaimer.) - These posts are not meant to be taken as fact. Everything I’m outlining stems from my own views and experiences. If you believe that I’ve missed or misinterpreted something, please let me know so I can edit the post accordingly. -The purpose of these posts is an analysis, nothing more. Please do not come into these posts expecting me to either defend Barok van Zieks from haters, nor expecting me to encourage the hatred. - I’m using the Western release of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles for these posts, but may refer to the original Japanese dialogue of Dai Gyakuten Saiban if needed to compare what’s said. This also means I’m using the localized names and localized romanization of the names to stay consistent. -It doesn’t matter one bit to me whether you like Barok van Zieks or dislike him. However, I will ask that everyone who comments refrains from attacking real, actual people.

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11

Let's bring this thing home! It's time for the conclusion of the essay series!

Conclusion With a stupidly long essay series behind us, it's time to look at what we've learned! Let's go back to Part 1 and review what we needed from Van Zieks's character development for a fully rounded redemption arc, shall we?

1) Present an antagonistic (possibly immoral) force who personifies Ryunosuke’s biggest personal obstacle/weakness, in this case racial prejudice. 2) Humanizing traits begin to show. OPTIONAL: A backstory to justify any immorality he has. 3) Over time, Barok has his realization and sees the error of his ways. 4) Barok atones for his immorality, not simply through apology but by taking decisive steps. 5) The cast around him acknowledges his efforts and forgives him.

And looking at the main game (plus additional dialogue), we have...

1) Antagonistic force:

Etc. etc. I have many of these. We can all agree that as an antagonistic force, he does his job quite well. CEO of Racism and White Privilege in the flesh. It works, since we as the audience get very frustrated and want to see him defeated.

2) Humanization:

Giving him an old friend to be a defendant was a brilliant move, really. Albert's reflection on the friendship and the person Van Zieks used to be really helped flesh him out and make him appear more like a human being with, y'know, emotions and weaknesses. The little snippets of dialogue in his office really help too. Presenting evidence can also lead to fun tidbits. All in all, considering how gruff and distant Van Zieks is, they really did their very best to humanize him. The writers were given very little to work with but they exploited every opportunity to come their way.

OPTIONAL backstory:

Again, I don't think we needed a tragic backstory to have a well-rounded, redeemable character. Still, it ties in very expertly to the game's plot and the motivations of quite a few other characters. The story of Klint van Zieks and his death isn't necessarily Barok van Zieks's backstory, it's the center of an intricate web which also holds Kazuma, Stronghart, Gregson, Jigoku, (S)Holmes, Mikotoba, Sithe, Drebber- I could go on. A LOT. So because of how very integrated it is into the main narrative's recurring themes and characters, I'll give it props for being relevant and well thought out. The bigger question is: Does it justify his immorality? Not entirely. I think the game could have gotten more out of this if they'd involved the other two exchange students in this tale just a bit more. They could have given more attention to how Jigoku's aggressive behavior in the trial impacted Van Zieks, and explained whether he might've suspected Mikotoba of sabotaging (S)Holmes's investigation. If the narrative had done that, all three Japanese people to come to London would have been ‘the bad guy’ in Van Zieks's eyes and it would have given more credence to his racial generalization. They could have also given more attention to how the people around him reacted to Genshin being the Professor, because I'm sure Stronghart and Gregson stoked the fire in terms of xenophobia. As it stands, there isn't really enough there to justify hatred of an entire race as opposed to just one person.

3) Realization/Redemption

We see him already start to realize the error of his ways around the end of 1-5, which is technically only about halfway into the full narrative. Unfortunately, thanks to 2-2 being played afterwards (but chronologically set before 1-5), any progress made in 1-5 can become invalidated in the player's eyes. Growth works best when it's done linear. Don't get me wrong, flashbacking to earlier times when a character is still more morally tainted can work well, but it needs to be executed properly. Barok's behavior in 2-2 is downright insulting towards the audience itself and therefore, it causes emotional friction when relaying the narrative endgoal of redemption. It also makes it extra jarring when we hit 2-3, and suddenly Van Zieks is meant to be relying on the protagonist's desire to expose the truth. How on earth can we as the audience trust that Van Zieks believes in Ryu's abilities when we just came fresh out of a case where this man actively sabotages Ryu's efforts?

Still, the line of redemption continues from 2-3 into 2-4 well enough. He admits that he was wrong- that his hatred was illogical and that he needs to change. This is the very definition of redemption. I need to stress once more this is not to be confused with atonement, which comes next.

4) Atonement

Here it is. It's not enough to simply acknowledge mistakes; one needs to work hard to fix them. Since Van Zieks is the defendant for two whole episodes, equaling roughly 20% of the full narrative and 67% of the time following his first true realization (chronologically), there isn't much that he can actively do to atone. Because remember, not only do these actions need to fit the situation he's currently in, they need to fit his personality. These two limitations ensure the atonement mostly takes the form of dialogue. Of apologies.

One might want to point out that he never apologizes specifically for his racism, but there's a reason for that. If you pay close attention, you'll notice that there isn't a single character who ever uses a word like “racism”, “xenophobia” or even “racial prejudice” in this game. It's for the same reason you'll never see an Ace Attorney character utter words like “alcoholism”, “drug abuse” or “depression”. These things may be implied very strongly, to the point where you'll know for certain a character is suffering from it, but it's never given these exact labels. It has to do with the tone of the game. In Great Ace Attorney's dialogue, Barok van Zieks is only ever described as holding “a deep hatred for Japanese”, which is then the only thing he could apologize for. And he does, so long as you aren't looking for a literal phrasing of “I apologize for my deep hatred of your people”.

Regardless, he can't take more active, decisive action until he's freed from prison and two scenes with Van Zieks later, the game has ended. He still manages to take two actions, though! The first is to publicize the truth of the Professor, taking the blame of the mass murders off Genshin's shoulders (and losing his own privilege in the process). The second is to take Kazuma under his wing as his disciple. I'm not certain there's anything else the narrative could have had him do. What is decisively missing, however, is the following:

5) Acknowledgment

The above aren't good examples of cast acknowledgment that Van Zieks is taking part in a redemption arc, rather, they're the best I could find. Characters are acknowledging that he's changing- that he's being kinder to them and they can get along with him now, but they're not acknowledging that he caused hurt in the first place. This, in my opinion, is the Great Ace Attorney's biggest narrative flaw. I've talked before about how Ryu's reaction to Van Zieks's racism is 'indirect communication', a typically Japanese manner of dealing with negativity. I've also talked about how Ryu is not in a position to speak up, as he's a literal minority who is there to represent his country in an official capacity and can’t afford to make enemies. However, characters like Susato and Kazuma are far more outspoken in their opinions, as is Soseki. The only one who ever calls Van Zieks out on his racism is the British judge, and even that is done very meekly. When an old crusty white guy is the one who condemns white privilege in a cast full of minorities, you've got a problem. The Japanese cast's refusal to acknowledge that Van Zieks's words were harmful is like Team Avatar telling Zuko that sure, he can join since he's a good guy now, but never once acknowledging that he burned down villages or betrayed everyone's trust in Ba Sing Se. There's something very vital missing, see? If indeed the cast had called Van Zieks out more actively on his harmful ways and how necessary it was for him to change, he in turn could have taken more atonement steps in response.

So, for the conclusion: Does Barok van Zieks tick all the necessary boxes for a complete redemption arc? Yes. In a very technical sense, all the requirements are there. But does that mean it's a successful arc? Not necessarily. The game has a few slip-ups, a few things not executed as well as they could have been. For that reason, whether the audience is satisfied with the arc is entirely up to them. Taking into consideration that they had to cram a whole lot of story into just two games- the second game in particular, I can acknowledge they did their very best with the limitations that were there.

And there we have it! That’s all I could think to say on the matter. I hope everyone who read this till the very end enjoyed it, maybe even learned a thing or two. I’m always open to questions, input and constructive criticism!

#dgs #dgs spoilers #tgaa #tgaa spoilers #barok van zieks #I'M FREE! #well until I tackle the DLC content #but until then... #FREEEE

[dpganime]

Shaman King vs. Yu-Gi-Oh - What Yu-Gi-Oh did right

Shaman King was first broadcasted in US back in 2001, riding on the success of Yu-Gi-Oh franchise. Though the two series have many similarities, Shaman King was nowhere near as popular as Yu-Gi-Oh. While YGO had one spin-off after another, Shaman King only had a sequel Shaman King Flowers and a spin-off Shaman King Crimson in manga - and nothing in anime except for 2021 remake/reboot.

So, why isn’t Shaman King that successful? Here’s what YGO did right but Shaman King did not:

1) A balanced protagonist duo

Yugi Muto was a nice boy who wants to have friends. He found one in the spirit of the Millennium Puzzle, Yami Yugi/Pharaoh Atem. Unlike Yugi, Atem was more arrogant and can be merciless at time. Atem was also mysterious, with his real name and story not revealed until the last season, which kept the audience intrigued. 

But in Shaman King...

Yoh Asakura was a nice and lazy guy, nothing more. His reason to become Shaman King was so that he could live an easy life? Or was it family duty? Whatever it was, we are interested enough to care.

His spirit partner Amidamaru and his human friend Manta were also Mr. Nice Guy. Three Mr. Nice Guys = BORING.

2) A rival who does not overshadow the protagonist

Seto Kaiba was a well-written character. In each YGO spin-off, there’s an expy of Yugi and an expy of Kaiba as well. Cold, jealous, and (a little too) obsessed on beating Yugi in card games, Kaiba was mostly an antagonist though sometimes ally. He also had a story - in the past and present, but he’s not taking over the show. 

But in Shaman King...

Ren Tao was a blood knight that turned the whole show up-side-down. Well, actually, he was a kindhearted boy who was abused by his father. He was able to see his errors and redeem his wrongs. Compared to Yoh, he was a better fit as a main protagonist and as Shaman King. Unfortunately, he was not the main character. 

3) A love interest who can be nasty but for a reason

Anzu Masaki was Yugi’s childhood friend. She had her abusive moments towards Jonouchi and Honda, but that’s because they were being inappropriate, like lifting up her skirt. Yugi had a crush on her, but Anzu liked Yugi’s spirit partner Atem, who shipped Yugi and Anzu...spawned many fanfics. 

But in Shaman King...

Anna was mean. Period. She slapped Manta and punched Horohoro. Though I liked the 2021 version of Anna much more than 2001′s version, I find it very hard to understand why a nice guy like Yoh would be okay with Anna abusing everyone around him.

4) A beta couple who explains the plot

Wanna know why Blue-Eyes White Dragon meant so much to Kaiba? The answer: in their previous life, Blue-Eyes White Dragon was the spirit of Kaiba’s love interest, Kisara. It’s another story worthy to tune in where the origin of Kaiba vs. Yugi will be explained (come think of it, it has some Game of Thrones flavor to it). 

But in Shaman King...

Ren got married...to Iron Maiden Jeanne. They had a son. But how did they get there?

Either you are very interested but can’t find enough details or you just don’t care, but find the couple coming out of nowhere. 

5) The bad guys are punished for their wrongs

Pegasus was the big bad in the first story arc. He sealed Yugi’s grandfather’s soul to force Yugi to participate in Duelist Kingdom Tournament. Whatever his reason was, he lost and his Millennium Eye was taken from him - it was painful and traumatic. At least he didn’t kill anyone. Marik from the second arc had killed his father, but it was semi self-defense and in a moment of insanity. 

But in Shaman King...

Ren killed. Iron Maiden Jeanne killed. X-Laws killed. Hao killed. Fraust opened up Manta with a surgical knife...and all of them are forgiven? For those who shipped Jun Tao and Lee Pyron, let me tell you what happened: Tao family killed Lee Pyron so that he could be her Jiang Shi puppet. And oh yeah, per Anna, Lee Pyron was married. So that makes Jun Tao a homewrecker - and she and Lee Pyron live happily ever after?

6) A satisfying ending

Atem found his name and returned to the past. Yugi moved on to be a legendary duelist, a real King of Game (which is what Yu-Gi-Oh means in Japanese). Friendship and true meaning of winning are well defined. 

But in Shaman King...

Hao did all these bad stuff and he still won? He got to be Shaman King and decided not to wipe out humanity for the time being because his mom intervened? Okay, so what’s the point of this whole story? I’m lost.

So as for the rest of 2021 Shaman King episodes, I’m only going to watch the ones that feature Ren because I like this character. Nothing more. Sorry, I don’t think the remake is going to be any more successful than 2001 version. 

#shaman king

[argiekawa]

ok im ranking all the arcs more under the cut heheh

prologue and land of waves arc: everything has already been said about this arc but it is truly a great start of the show laying the foundation of whats to come, the character’s dynamics and their opinions on the ninja worls among other things 9/10

the chunin exams: real shonen shit but i liked it because it introduced the background characters (konoha’s 11) as well as gaara temari and kankuro, a new antagonist show up (orochimaru) and also jiraiya is there.. except for whatever the fuck is wrong with the hyuuga and neji’s demonization.. 8/10

konoha crush: hiruzen and orochimaru battle was.. okay? i wanted them both to die lol anyways.. naruto and gaara’s fight yeah yeah<3 u dont get it naruto literally saved sakura and sasuke and then save gaara from the darkness!!!!!!! for that alone the arc is a 8/10

search for tsunade: MILF INCOMING‼️‼️ honestly i love tsunade and how she sees naruto as her little brother,,, the sannin battle was great too, shoutout to my boy kabuto<3 also the first time the akatsuki show up so yeah a great and complete arc 7/10 (bc of the amount of jiraiya i had to see)

sasuke recovery mission: im gonna be honest i thought it was too long and i hated seeing all the boys about to die, tsunade was so shitty for sending only gennin... i also think kakashi handled the whole sasuke thing badly.. the valle of the end fight was AMAZING like so good i cried like a baby bc i didnt want sasuke to go with orochimaru 8/10

kazekage rescue mission: GOOD SHIT!! naruto is back in town and everyone is so grown up and everyone missed him<3 also gaara my baby <3 new akatsuki members which i really enjoyed. sasori v sakura was THEE fight honestly we were robbed how come that’s sakura’s only big fight🤨 9/10

tenchi bridge reconnaissance mission: TENZO AND SAI EVERYONE CLAPPED!! honestly i love this arc. it really shows how much naruto is willing to do just to defend sasuke’s name from orochimaru, the four tailed naruto is amazing i love him i wanted to see more of him. and although sai is a bit annoying at first he ended up being so protective of his team.. 10/10 just bc of that gay ass sns reunion

hidan and kakuzu: whew this arc has everything the two gayest akatsuki memebers, a guy who licks blood and an immortal dude, team 10 fighting together, naruto training with tenzo, kakashi looking like shit, the rasen shuriken, asuma’s ghost lighting shikamaru’s cigarette everything!! the last good arc 8/10

itachi pursuit mission: orochimaru dead yay... i dont have strong feelings about team taka i like karin but i hate how her character is just being obsessed with sasuke, i could write her better i could fix her. huhhhh i dont really remember much abt this arc but i think it’s pretty boring 6/10

tale of jiraiya the gallant: maybe unpopular opinion but i enjoyed jiraiya battle with pain and the introduction of sennin mode. not much to say i think at that point the akatsuki are still very interesting villians and that fight show us how ruthless they are, especially pain 7/10

battle between brothers: yeah great fight tbhhh the sharingan v sharingan aspect is so cool, i also loved how itachi purged orochimaru from sasuke’s body and i think its the first time we see susano’o and amateratsu.. i dont fuck with the way itachi is “redeemed” or protrayed as a savior i despise it 7/10

pain's assault: pain was so ruthlesss what happened at the end nagato huh? a little stupid speech and u resucitated all of konoha? pathetic. the best parts of this arc are naruto training, his one v one fight with pain where he almost turned into kurama and the him punching minato (and their reunion ofc).. the rest is just okay especially how it was resolved and how konan was just there 7/10

five kage summit: the beginning of the end is here, truly the last arc that doesnt feel like swallowing glass every time u press play. overall i like those samurais, the kages with different abilities and the way naruto and co found out abt what really happened to the uchiha.. sasuke killing hanzo is THEE highlight of the arc, sakura trying to kill him and naruto “i’ll bear all ur hatred” really make this arc a 8/10 despite it all

the fourth shinobi world war (countdown, confrontation, climax): im lumping them all together bc i feel like it was all very underwhelming (except gaara and his speech),,, things get spicy with the white zetsus and edo tensei but its still not the best. gaara v his father and that gay mizukage, and madara showing up and kicking everyone’s asses yeah.. 6/10

birth of the ten-tails' jinchūriki: juubito is the hottest and obito in general tbhh, neji’s death was so unneccesary and him spouting that shit abt how good it feels to give up life for someone else???? kishimoto im outside ur home... nothing remarkable tbhh i hate to say it but the edo hokages, or rather hashirama and minato really made this a go from a three to a 5/10

kaguya otsutsuki strikes: i dont even know where to begin this is the lowest, most anticlimatic conclusion the show could’ve reached... an alien??????? black zetsu???? it feels like the mangaka gave up halfway thru it and it’s only bearble bc the team 7 reunion and sun/moon gay rencarnation sasunaru thingy... the rest NOT GOOD 4/10

sasuke and naruto fight: 😵‍💫😩🤕❤️‍🩹😳😩😢😵‍💫🥺❤️‍🩹😵‍💫🤕😵‍💫😩🤕😵‍💫😢🤕😵‍💫❤️‍🩹🥺😀💖💕❤️❤️‍🩹😵‍💫😢😩😀🥺😢🤕😩🤕💕❤️‍🩹💖❤️❤️‍🩹🤕😩😢❤️‍🩹🤕 nothing more to say 8/10

#i might have been too good with my ranking #id like to know my muchuala opinions<333

[originalwinnercheesecake]

First Impressions and predictions based on the coven Leaders

After a full first season their fame adorning the banners and walls, who they are being hailed, yet they themselves being kept in the shadows we now get first looks (and throughout 2a will meet) the emperors top dogs: The coven leaders. I will not lie as a group... these guys dissappoint me. Making the majority of them very human in appearance for me is a big no. Compare this group to the many colorful and fantastical creatures that are shown teaching at hexside and the hexside teachers are far more creative, unique, and fun. Maybe the artists decided to make the coven leaders look more like normal people so the audience would have an easier time understanding their expressions and body language. Maybe the more humanoid whitches are a higher class and have a easier time climbing higher than the more beast and demon like residence.? We will have to wait and see. 

Seperate this group into individuals (like how we will hopefully meet them) and most of them become far more interesting, So below lets take a look at each coven leader individually, where the artists may have taken inspriation, and what  What kind of characters they could maybe turn out to be.

The Beast keeping coven Leader: One of the only two that are not humanoids. What type of animal is he? At first I was sure he was a hedgehog, but maybe he could also be like a chipmunk or a squirrel. I get the feeling he might be partially inspired by Sonic from Sega. I was really into Sonic back in middle school. I liked the cartoons and read through the archie’s old comic series. But I kinda out grew him since then. I know from helping to take care of kids though that he is still popular with the younger generation. That’s kinda how I thin the Beast Keeping Coven leader will be: less interesting for older viewers, but a real fun charcter for kids.

The Healing coven leader: Now this guy looks like fun villain all around. Is some kind of witch docotor? a Dark Priest? The size the purple Grin, he looks like the phantom boss from those horror films where you get trapped in nightmares. Tell me he has scary theme song music and talks in a very high pitched voice. I’ve heard some people wonder if he could be Selena (oracle girl from hexside)’s dad. I don’t thinks so, the macaroni crescent shape n his head looks more like a fancy cowl than part of his actual head. Also him having a daughter in Luz’s class could be used as a reason for him to change sides, I want this guy to stay as a villian/antagonist. We all know that with this size group some will stay with the emperor and some will defect to Luz’s side (possibility a couple will die, we haven’t seen yet just how dark Dana is willing to go). Personally my view with redemption arcs and if a character “deserves them” is it depends on what it will do for the story/character afterwards? IF redeeming them opens more doors for the characters and directions the story can take, do it. IF it closes doors leave them as they are. I absolutely hate when clever and well written bad guys get “redeemed” in to boring, plot useless, weebs. The only reason I could see having this guy change sides is for him to “cure” Eda and Lilith’s curse, and I would much rather see the two of them gain control over their forms than be “cured” of them.

The Illusion coven leader: Another fun looking antagonist. My third favorite of these nine. If the healer guy is horror movie based. This guy is Disney based all around. Looks like one of those Vegas suave showmen styled character. Love it. I guarantee you he does not actually look that young or slicked back, but is using illusion magic to make himself more pretty. Not sure if he will stay with the emperor or not. Illusion is Gus’s track and I could see Dana having the leaders of Luz’s friends tracks be the ones to stand by them. If so I am fine with that (in the case of the abomination leader I will beg for it). Gaining the respect of someone as high up as a coven leader could be really great for Gus’s character. Just as long as I get plenty of laughs from Gus and this guy both along the way.

The Potion coven leader: My second favorite and in my opinion the most creative idea of the whole bunch. A mosquito that works in potions! Does he suck them up with his nose and carry them in.. whatever it is mosquitos store blood in. Also he looks angry. Like everyone else is either amused or board. This guy is fed up and ready to do something about it. Not sure if it is the Emperor, the other leaders, or the owl gang he is mad at, but it should be a worthwhile show down.

The Abomination coven leader: Yes this is my favorite design. Yes it is because he is such a beautiful man. Would never have expected someone who creates mucks (the pokemon) with legs would be so fine. Its more than that though. He looks the most kind. Their is no malice or guise in his smile and his green eyes are bright and relaxed. I wondered what the purpose of the Abomination track was and why it had “more opportunity” all last season. Well slight spoilers if you haven’t seen episode 2x02 it is the industrialist field. When you learn about Industrialization usually the idea is that it is done to help the human race reach its full potential, and it is up to each individual to decide what to do with that potential. Whether you call that the passion of a creative mind or the carelessness of a fool would also be up to you. But I really don’t want this guy to be all bad. If for no other reason that more spoilers for episode 2 * with the interest/caution the emperor is showing the blights I expect this guy to show up to their house, probably meet Amity, and we really do not need another not so nice adult in her life. She has had enough.

The Oracle coven leader: What is this? He’s got nails/caws at the ends of dread thingys like Kikimore, so is this her father? Does he have anything to do with her being in the Emporor’s coven? But this is my least favorite. Like what was the inspiration behind this guy? With so many legendary oracles in mythology and we get this guy who mostly looks saggy, washed out, tierd, and just Blah. Hope thier is more to him, but here is one who I am not holding my breath for an episode on.

The Plant coven leader: based on her banner I was expecting something like the Swamp Giant from ALTA. Instead they went in the direction of a very traditional witch desgine: An old women with a wrinkled face and really messy hair, who probably lives alone in the woods, with maybe the exception of a cat, and dances around a fire at night. Okay. She is definitely going to become an ally of the owl gang. This is the only female of the group,and it is neither in Dana’s message nor would it be popular with her target audience to make a villain or even an antagonist out of a women who managed to climb the later into a male dominated success level. I am actually looking forward to seeing her, because it will probably be in a Willow based episode, and after 2x02 (which I personally feel should not have been a luminaty episode but rather a Willow and Amity one finishing up their reconciliation arc), Willow deserves an episode with potential centered around her. An episode where she goes against the Plant track Leader would be that. This witches Grin isn’t exactly friendly, but its more mischievous than wicked. She gives off vibes as one of those people who like to test the mains, and if you pass her tests than you earn her respect. I have no doubt Willow could win at her little games, and doing so would be a huge boost the confidence she has spent the show building.

The Construction coven leader: Oh joy here’s the other one I am unimpressed with. Unlike with the Oracle guy I know where they got his design. To everyone saying that we first saw him at the convention, your not backing far enough up. If you have ever seen any cartoon ever where the main character wanders past or onto a construction sight you have seen this man. Every trio of workers sitting on a iron frame eating from a lunchbox. Every pig that makes a catcall at a disgusted women. Every exhausted worker who watches as your slapstick mains chase each other past at quitting time... they all looked EXACTLY like this guy. This is really the character leading the track Dana herself has said she would pick to join? They could have done a Golem made of brick an stone that resembles a palace. They could have done some kind of humanoid ant with super strength. They could have done a wizard with shapes and mathematics on his robe who carried a scroll everywhere that he compulsively scribbled blueprints onto. But instead we get Mr. Generic here.

The Bard coven Leader: This is R, Eda’s old friend from her hexside days. Did I save R for last because of this connection? Partially. I am also unsure what R’s pronouns are. To me R looks physically male. I have seen other posters use “she” when posting about R. One person posted that Dana had confirmed R uses “they” and if so awesome, I would really like to see that tweet. What ever R’s pronouns though their appearance in the show will be tied with Eda, er past, and what she had to give up in order to live free. I look forward to this new insight onto her character

#The Owl house #Eda clawthorn #luz nuceda #Gus Porter #Willow park #Amity blight #emperor belos #TOH #The coven leaders #beast keeping coven #healing coven #illusion coven #potions coven #abomination coven #plant coven #construction coven #Oracle coven #Bard coven #TOH R #the owl house season 2

[supercantaloupe]

on Aelwyn Abernant, the Reformed Villain Squad, and redeeming teenage antagonists

an analysis on antagonist character development in Fantasy High. spoilers through sophomore year and (mildly so) the most recent roll20 oneshot. essay under the cut bc i am very long winded

the turnaround with Aelwyn in s2 is handled so well  i cant get over it. she was such a major antagonist in the first season and just. despicable. she had no pathos. we hated this bitchy older sister who tried to kill Adaine and her friends and raise an evil dragon, and when she gets knocked on her ass and thrown in jail, we cheer.

and then s2 fucking starts saying “hey she’s in jail still if you’d like to look into that” and pursuing that thread ends up being almost as comedic an idea as it is a reluctant one; it’s also quickly shunted to the background as soon as more pressing leads present themselves, to the point where we almost forget about her until Adaine is kidnapped and then the first time you see her it’s just. viscerally upsetting.

she’s bad. she did evil. she got what she deserved.

but she already got what she deserved. last season.

she got her ass handed to her by a bunch of 14 year olds including her little sister (how embarrassing!). her plans were thwarted. she got punched in the face and made fun of. she already got her punishment.

it just……immediately registers as over-the-top Wrong to be told “hey, remember that antagonist you beat last season? she’s still being punished for that, except it’s way worse than just going to mumple.”

and there’s that reminder that like…this is a teenager. a child. who has been manipulated and abused. which is a really fascinating look at this character we used to see pretty much unilaterally as a one dimensional bitchy villain.

i mean we got a more in depth look at Penelope’s and Biz’s motivations in s1 (Penelope being the popular rich girl sorceress obviously hungry for power and the alllure of the high school clout that is being prom queen, but also we know that her having to turn on her best friend Sam Nightingale as part of the scheme was something she was reluctant and not happy to do; and Biz being that predatory incel creeper type dude besides just a nerd with computers and a lack of social graces). and they were as much willingly active in the plot as Aelwyn was. yet in s1 they really never do bother to explore Aelwyn’s motivations. i remember after watching s1 but before s2 that was one of my biggest lingering questions: why tf was Aelwyn involved?

well. she was manipulated and abused. her terrible parents raised her in an awful environment that conditioned her to Listen and Obey and Behave and Be Perfect, and then Kalina helped cinch the noose around her neck with threats and coersion into the KVS Kaper and the NMK crown debacle. she doesn’t freely choose any of it; she’s coerced, manipulated, abused.

and she already got justifiably punished for her bad actions in s1. the torture is almost literal overkill. it’s just……there’s this immediate turnaround in sympathy and view of the character. on first watch, it’s viscerally upsetting to see her getting so brutally punished for actions she already faced consequences for, and on rewatch, it makes your skin crawl to know she’s being tortured for terrible things she had little choice in carrying out. and tortured by some of the very same people who coerced her to behave terribly in the first place, to add insult to injury.

and it’s still fucking frustrating when they rescue her and her memory gets reset and she goes back to her parents because it’s like “well shit, she’s evil again, and we just wasted all that effort for nothing” but it’s also sad cause we know she’s running back to her abusers and she isn’t happy about it but doesn’t feel like she has a choice. and it’s sadder still that what eventually inevitably gets her to turn to good for good (i.e. away from her parents) is just. a full dissociative mental breakdown.

(but then she survives and it’s gonna be good!!! until Adaine dies in her fucking arms. which is. almost funny. she’s been through so much shit and that isn’t something that Brennan would have just. preplanned. like a written in plot point. no, that was just an unpredictable consequence of the battle. what a juicy fucking moment. she’s been through All That Shit™️ and has finally turned to fight for good and her sister just fully dies in front of her. yeowch)

and she turns out okay in the end. she comes out the other side alive and whole and supported by her sister and her friends, with the hope of a future and recovery. there is an acknowledgement that A) she can and will grow from her mistakes and damage, B) it’s going to be really hard, and C) the post-s2 one shots both prove that she’s doing okay now. hell, she has a whole squad now of other former-teenage-villains-turned-good-guys. she has friends now, Ragh and Zayn, with common ground, and a secret handshake and everything. they’ve all grown from the mistakes of their past into better, happier, healthier people

and about Zayn and Ragh. we’ve seen a lot of characters, protagonist and antagonist, teenage and adult, PC and NPC do some really fucked up shit and get punished for it. but why do they get happy endings? why are Aelwyn, Ragh, and Zayn the only members of the RVS and not someone else like Biz or Penelope or Dayne? 

well, the latter two are dead by then; but then again, Biz and Ragh were also killed by the Bad Kids in s1, and subsequently resurrected. (Zayn died too, but was neither killed nor revived at the Bad Kids’ hands, so i’ll get to him in a sec.) and there are plenty of adult antagonists the Bad Kids face who are killed and left that way by the Bad Kids without second thought: Johnny Spells, Coach Daybreak, Captain Wicklaw, the Abernant parents (presuming Arianwen doesn’t survive in the forest for very long, which i doubt). why do some characters get second chances while others don’t?

in the case of Zayn, his death was pretty much out of the Bad Kids’ hands, and they later found out he was manipulated by Daybreak into being bad anyway because of his sad living situation. he was a pretty minor antagonist in the scheme of things, and when we re-meet him as a ghost in the s1 epilogue, he’s pretty obviously remorseful for his actions. and dying seems like a steep enough punishment to me for the shit he did to contribute to the KVX caper; returning as a ghost, free from the trappings of his unfortunate living life, he now has the room and freedom to grow into a better person.

in the cases of Daybreak, Spells, Wicklaw, and the Abernant parents: these are bad people who should know better. these are fully grown adults who actively choose to do evil. whether they think it’s the right thing to do or not (in Daybreak’s case), whether they think it will benefit them and don’t care about anyone else (in the Abernants’ case), or whether they don’t care much at all and are just doing shit because they feel like it (in the cases of Spells and Wicklaw), these are all adults who consciously make the decision to do terrible things and hurt other people. of course Johnny Spells, who is generally a punk thief and thug, is not on the same level of bad as Angwyn, who kidnaps and tortures his own daughters for political gain, but the point remains. these fuckers should know better. they’re grown ups. they had their chances to be good and they chose not to heed them. their minds are set on bad actions and they are a continued danger to other people as long as they are alive. when they die, the Bad Kids do their damndest to make sure it stays that way.

now, in the cases of Penelope and Dayne: these are teenagers who actively chose to participate in an evil plot. Penelope, Dayne, and Biz were all fully cognizant of what they were doing trying to raise KVX back to his former power. why? well, to some extent, we can only speculate. i suspect Penelope was just one of those Regina George bitches who is rich and popular and powerful and obsessed with power and popularity within high school as if that’s the end-all-be-all of existence (which, like, when you’re currently in high school, is a somewhat understandable worldview i think). Dayne being her boyfriend and a musclehead jock probably falls into a similar line of thinking. they are actively and willingly trying to cause harm, and teenager or not, must be stopped. they’re killed, anyway, during the Climactic Battle™️ anyhow; it’s not like the Bad Kids were going to gain anything at that point by keeping them alive.

now, Biz: Biz is the creepy Nice Guy incel type, sees woman as a prize he deserves to win, yadda yadda. he does, like Penelope and Dayne, actively choose to help KVX. there might be something to be said about his motivation the Bad Kids discover after the arcade battle by detecting his thoughts (that being to upload the captured maidens from the palimpsests to “call the shots” himself) is an altered memory; whether this was his original motivation from the start or not, i’m not sure. but the Bad Kids do kill him – and then resurrect him for important, time-sensitive information. and they beat it out of him – he gets two of his fucking fingers blown off. and Riz reattaches them once they have their info, and they realize his memory is altered. of course, the Bad Kids don’t know at this point that the altered memory was something he, Penelope, and Aelwyn had planned and agreed on and done to themselves, but this points to something important in my opinion: the Bad Kids, and the narrative/show as a whole by extension, acknowledge that external manipulation affects how guilty someone is in a crime.

which brings us to Ragh. Ragh, introduced from episode 1 as the meathead jock. Ragh the archetypical one-dimensional high school bully. Ragh who works with the harvestmen in effort to (ostensibly) end the world/provoke international war. Ragh, whose low intelligence but high loyalty and internalized homophobia led him to be fully swayed and blindly led by his coach and captain, who have actively chosen to do evil. Ragh who is killed in combat by the Bad Kids and resurrected for information, not Daybreak. Ragh, who the Bad Kids realize was probably not aware of exactly what he was being made to do and how bad it really was. Ragh, who by their kindness in sparing his life and directing him on a better path, becomes a well-rounded character and an active ally to the Bad Kids during and after prom, an invaluable companion during their quest in sophomore year, and overall a really good friend and person. 

(it might also be worth considering the case of Jawbone here, too, who started out a very minor antagonist in a fight but ended up becoming a major NPC because the Bad Kids talked to him, found out he came from an unfortunate situation and set of circumstances, and showed him kindness in offering the school guidance counselor position, a kindness that isn’t really owed but given anyway and ends up changing his entire life for good.)

and then, Aelwyn, whose case is already discussed above. so, why is the RVS what it is, why them but not others?

if you’re familiar with Avatar: the Last Airbender, you’re probably familiar with Zuko’s character arc, and how it’s often lauded as a masterful example of developing a villain into a hero over the course of a narrative. what makes Zuko’s arc so well done and exceptional is that he starts out as a kid in a bad situation under the influence of bad adults seeking to do bad deeds, but he later realizes the error of those ways, actively removes himself from that situation despite the difficulty and danger in doing so, goes through a lot of shit and reflects on his past mistakes and learns from them, and then actively chooses to fight for good in the end with the help of close, trusted friends, found family. 

this, i believe, is the same in the case of Fantasy High and its treatment of the RVS. its members, like Zuko, are all teenagers who came from shitty situations and were manipulated by evil adults to do bad. they are punished for their bad actions, and they learn from their errors and mistakes. with the kindness and help of good people, friends and chosen family, they are able to escape their abusers and bad situations and grow into their own people. and they actively choose to improve themselves with that help and fight for good.

Fantasy High, through the arcs of Jawbone, Zayn, Ragh, and especially Aelwyn, asserts that it is not your fault if you come from a bad situation and are forced to behave badly as a result. it does not pretend that you are absolved of any responsibility for those actions; quite the opposite, as even though they were externally manipulated into their evil actions, all of those mentioned characters face tangible consequences for their actions and later express remorse for their mistakes. but Fantasy High also asserts that even if you have made great mistakes in your past, even if you came from a bad situation beyond your control, even if you were manipulated and abused, with care and love and support and a hell of a lot of work and effort, you can improve your situation and find good, happiness, peace, you can thrive. evil adults who should know better don’t get redeemed. teenagers who aren’t coerced but actively choose evil don’t get redeemed. but abused kids deserve another shot at happiness. with enough work, and some love and help along the way, they can get there, even from the lowest imaginable point, from rock fucking buttom. it’s possible. 

#fantasy high #fantasy high spoilers #dimension 20 live #dimension 20 #fantasy high sophomore year #fantasy high freshman year #d20 #dimension 20 live spoilers #brennan lee mulligan #aelwyn abernant #zayn darkshadow #ragh barkrock #sasha reviews #hello tumblr. tonight i bring you a 2.3k word essay. tomorrow? who knows #i'll just throw myself into the nearest river if this doesn't show up in the tags this is fine #this one's for y'all in my notes i see u and i love u here's some content #the first half of this is mostly copy pasted from my discord ramblings #i didnt intend for this to be as long as it got but yknow. i never do and it always is #so thats why the first part of this is written differently from the rest of it lol

[itsclydebitches]

Not sure how I feel about anon bringing Yang not showing Salem empathy in that moment as a bad thing. Like if an immortal witch was trying to murder/kill all of my friends my reaction probably wouldn't be "how do you feel though"

That's been my response too, anon, though I understand where the previous anon is coming from. Though Salem started out as a generic Big Bad with no redeemable qualities, Volume 6 showed us a captive woman who was later tortured by the gods and sought death, only to find herself changed instead, thereby raising the question for the audience, "How much of the Big Bad's action is Salem and how much of it is the evil grimm magic acting upon her?" Just as important, Volume 8 gave us Cinder's backstory and a scene of her crying on the rooftop, alongside the forgiveness of Emerald and Hazel. I could go on another rant about how this sympathy didn't extent to Ironwood and, in a different way, didn't extend to Ozpin either, but outside of that there's been a very strong message of, "Abuse victims and people who have just generally suffered - lost a sister, lived on the streets - should be shown compassion and given a second chance," which becomes a problem when we consider that the most prominent villain with an abusive backstory since Volume 6 has not been extended that compassion. Gender dynamics aside, it's the same problem fans have with Adam's ending considering that his brand was revealed right before he died. The go-to explanations of, "But Adam was his own abuser who stalked Blake" and "Salem is literally trying to destroy the world" fall a little flat when pit against "But it's okay for Emerald to manipulate Pyrrha into killing Penny?" and "Hazel has also knowingly helped Salem try to take over the world. And also murdered countless huntsmen. And also was torturing a kid." It's not so easy to go, "The story shouldn't show them compassion because they're The Worst" when the story is already showing compassion to people who... are also The Worst. I say all this not as a way to excuse any one character's actions - I'm not in the business of going, "[insert horrific choice here] is fine actually!" - but rather to acknowledge that RWBY lacks a clear divide between what actions are forgivable and what actions are not. Fans aren't wrong to go, "If you expect me to feel for Cinder after everything she's done since Episode 1 and you expect me to laugh along with the cast after everything Emerald has done, why isn't Salem Adam Ironwood Ozpin getting that same sort of work?" Given the "trust love" message and the strong push to sympathize with/outright redeem heinous characters, a lot of fans are wondering why our cast hasn't even mentioned all the shit Salem went through. It's been months now since they watched Jinn's vision and they're accepting former villains into their ranks now because Life is Hard and they deserve that chance, but no one cares to even mention everything Salem went through and debate her own responsibility. Surely if they can forgive Emerald for willingly working with her, there's at least some room to discuss the question of Salem's morality in the context of two Gods' manipulations and a magical pool having some kind of impact on her. There's a disconnect here. The story can't go, "These heinous people are Good deep down, actually" without extending that to all our villains, Salem included.

(All of which, btw, is tied up in the frustration that the group hasn't discussed the vision at all. The question of Salem's morality is tied up in the question of her defeat. For example, if they decide they're not comfortable with killing her, that might lead to theories on how to contain her instead...)

So ALL OF THAT is churning in the back of fans' minds. I agree 100% that the group's capture was not the time to extend any sympathy for Salem and I've got posts out there saying the exact same as you, anon: "You really expect Yang to be compassionate after Salem was torturing Oscar, captured them, was planning to kill them, is attacking the city, and just reminded her of her dead mom? C'mon." The problem lies in the fact that we haven't gotten this kind of work anywhere else, the cast has barely mentioned Salem anywhere else - outside of freaking out over her arrival - so when a member of our main group is suddenly right next to her and they're discussing the concept of loss, some fans are like, "AHHHH TALK ABOUT WHAT SALEM HAS LOST TOO GODDAMMIT." It's putting an unfair expectation on Yang and the scene because, again, I don't think that was the time or place for discussing the nuances of morality in a fantasy setting, but because everything else around Salem has been so badly written, and Yang's scene was the closest we've ever gotten to scratching that itch... fans get frustrated that it didn't happen, no matter how unfair or ridiculous that frustration might seem. Really, I don't think fans, in a general sense, actually want Yang to sympathize with Salem then and there. That would be a whole other, messy can of worms given the context. But they want something and at this point "something" has become accepting even really bad versions of what they're looking for. Since no one discussed the vision at the farm, or at Argus, or any time in Atlas, fans are metaphorically throwing up their hands with a, "Well, if we have to delve into Salem's character only when she's doing the most damage in the entire series then fine! You didn't do it earlier when you should have, so this is just what we're left with! Better then nothing! I'm sick of watching Cinder cry and Emerald make quips and Hazel go out in a blaze of heroics and we still haven't even mentioned that our primary antagonist went through more shit than the three of them combined. Am I supposed to be compassionate towards the bad guys or not? Make up your mind, RWBY."

RWBY is a hot mess and the mistakes the story has made, sadly, are not easily separated from one another. Frustration over Yang's scene is prioritizing one problem over another. Namely, the problem of Salem's characterization over the problem of having your hero go "How do you feel though?" while the bad guy is about to kill her. RWBY has backed itself into a corner, both problems exist, but we can only easily discuss one at a time. Similarly, if someone goes, "Ugh they really need to work on Emerald's redemption in Volume 9" people are correct to go, "But if they do that then Volume 8 will look even worse since they've already forgiven her" or "But that's going to be so messy if they're flip-flopping between Vacuo and the island world. Should they even redeem her without the main girls around?" And it's like yes! Exactly! None of these are good options. RWBY has written a situation where ANY choice is going to be a problem on some level because none of this story has been well thought out. So it comes down to which problem an individual fan considers to be, well, more of a problem. In Yang's case it's going, "I will gladly sacrifice the integrity of this scene to get some acknowledgement of a theme that has existed for Salem since early Volume 6 and is now being heavily pushed on other characters in Volume 8. If a stupid moment where Yang is kind to Salem while she's captured is what it takes to start this conversation then fine. I'll take it. Especially when Oscar was kind to Hazel while captured and tortured. You already gave us the stupid scene - just do it again and actually get something out of it this time!"

It is, as said, a twisting, turning mess.

#rwby #rwde #mymetas

[yenforfairytales]

Assuming that Silver comes into S4 just as rich, bored, and unhinged as he was in KK3, my One Fear is that if the co-dojo loses the tournament he would ask for something like Daniel to be his servant or return to him as a student, etc. Like Kreese hates him and wants him dead, but Terry seems invested in metaphorically scooping out Daniel empty and replacing his insides with something else. People are like his bonsai that way, but Terry isn't interested in shaping Daniel to be his best self...

That is a very valid fear... Hoo boy you got me deep in the feels.

First of all, yes, I one hundred percent believe Terry has been just as bored as he's ever been. Probably moreso than in KK3. From the little we were shown he seems to find the business side of things and people in his life very dull. There's no challenge. He holds the power in every relationship and situation he's in. It's not until he starts scheming and hanging out with Daniel that he seems to be really living instead of just existing.

I think we're going to see a s4 Terry having the time of his life. He's going to go from his world being a black and white television to full on technicolor. Especially after being around Daniel again, in whatever capacity that is. Whether it's more aggressively antagonistic or appearing as a friend again. I think it could go either way.

Secondly, I think that Cobra Kai WILL win the next tournament. Mostly because the writers have planned up to six seasons and I don't see Kreese peacing out after losing in s4 like he promised lol. Season 5 will probably be more training for another tournament in Season 6. And all the drama in between.

And adding those together, your One Fear is extremely plausible. Cobra Kai is going to have the leverage and the power. They'll have Robby. And if there's one thing Terry knows how to do it is exploiting a weakness.

I'm sure he'll threaten Daniel with hurting Robby if he doesn't do as he asks. And Daniel is the self-sacrificing type that he wouldn't hesitate to submit. Although, I'm hoping that when Robby witnesses how they treat Daniel and what Daniel is willing to give up for him, Robby will return to the light.

There's several ways like you mentioned it could go. Kreese and Silver could use Daniel as a punching bag, but I like the idea of Silver wanting Daniel to be his student again. It's so dark and angsty. It's so perfect.

Terry seems invested in metaphorically scooping out Daniel empty and replacing his insides with something else.

THIS. You gave me chills. What a great line. Watching KK3 it's clear that Terry revels in bringing out Daniel's dark side-- the killer instinct as he and Kreese call it. It all started off as a ploy to hurt Miyagi by hurting his student, but Terry's sole focus quickly becomes all about Daniel. Miyagi who? Lol.

I have this theory that Terry genuinely liked Daniel. There's several instances of Terry being surprised at how quickly Daniel learns something. How fast he heals. How Daniel enjoys Terry's little jokes and sayings.

"You like that, Mr. LaRusso?"

Terry happily says that twice to Daniel. It's like he really enjoyed having a student. And the sheer amount of glee and pride he shows when Daniel broke the wooden dummy. When he punched that guy in the nightclub. It seemed genuine to me. And that's without all the gay subtext. KK3 is so gay you guys. I have to make a separate post about the nightclub scene. You will not believe. I'll link it to the bottom here. There was literally no reason for Terry to follow Daniel that night, to take him out back into the alleyway alone. Like what was your plan Terry. Where were you going.

And then of course later that same night when Daniel tells Terry he'll no longer be fighting, Terry looks so disappointed. Disappointed and then pissed. Nobody says "no" to Terry Silver. Nobody. Not even Kreese. Gone is the proud sensei. Silver becomes even more unhinged when Daniel tries to leave him. I swear KK3 plays out like a Lifetime Original Movie about stalking and abusive boyfriends.

Anyway, I got a little off track there. My point is I can easily see Terry trying to corrupt Daniel once again. Someone that thinks like he does and can be shaped how he wants him? Perfect. And I think Terry sees a little of himself in Daniel. How he used to be. And like Kreese, Terry thinks his old self was weak, and can be something more. In a parallel to how Kreese thinks of Johnny.

This brings me to what you said about Kreese's motives in comparison to Silver's, and how that might affect their relationship.

I think it's safe to say that Kreese is also obsessed with Daniel lol. I mean who isn't heh. But it's definitely more hate-fueled than anything.

If the show goes the way of Silver hyper fixating on Daniel again, I think we'll see that put a huge strain on the friendship. They won't be on the same page.

I mean I think it would be amazing and ironic to show their war forged bond break after all these years in a mirror to Johnny and Daniel coming together and uniting.

And possibly, either Kreese or Silver could be redeemed. It depends on who cares about their student more. Hear me out lmao

If Kreese really cares about Johnny, he's not going to like what Terry does to him. Because let's face it, Terry isn't going to have any great love for Johnny Lawrence. Those two are going to butt heads and trade insults and I can't wait. So it's possible Kreese could turn on Terry if he goes too far in his attempts to destroy Johnny.

And the same goes for Terry and Daniel. How far will Terry let Kreese push things, especially if Terry tries to bring Daniel over to the Cobra Kai side(you can't tell me Terry won't be proud of Daniel's rent hike). Terry is a control freak and if Kreese doesn't do as Terry thinks he should, I can see Terry betraying him. A rift is inevitable y'all. There's a reason CK gives us young Terry and Kreese in flashbacks and it's not just so we'll feel sorry for them. One of them is going to pull a Darth Vader and see the light. But probably not until the end of the series.

There's a line in the kk1 novel:

They'll be their own downfall.

How fun. It's going to be a wild, painful ride. My body is ready.

Another thing I'd like to see in the show regarding Terry and Daniel, is their music together from the KK3 movie. Terry manipulating Daniel again is the perfect opportunity to callback to their old themes. @wantedtourist made a beautiful post HERE about a couple of the songs and I'd like to talk about it more but I'll make a separate post, linked below.

Thank you for the ask! I could talk about these boys for hours.

--

Part Two: Terry Silver's Theme Songs

Part Three: The Nightclub Scene

#this got ridiculous and long im sorry #all in good fun #who knows what will happen #it's just fun to speculate #i know nothing jon snow #cobra kai #cobra kai spoilers #cobra kai season 4 #lawrusso #silverusso #daniel larusso #johnny lawrence #terry silver #john kreese #ive watched KK3 a hundred times #send help #asks