#who got valared because

[rohirric-hunter]

I've long lauded the entertainment value of running around LotRO on an overleveled hunter and oneshotting everything.

Little did I guess the entertainment value of running around LotRO on an overleveled brawler and oneshotting everything.

#lotro #i am having so much fun rn #context: i stopped running all the moria world instances on leonys prime #because i did the math and you get more bang for your buck from crafting instances #so instead ive been running crafting instances on all my high leveled chars #actually thats not even true i started with drof who is 62 #and even she can take them apart in less than 10 minutes each #someone who knows what theyre doing with a guardian could probably do better #anyhow i have like five or six characters her level or higher #and one of them is indarant #who got valared because #*checks notes* #i didnt want the valar taking up storage space #but ooh hoo hoo #unrelated but her current appearance was just meant to be a placeholder but im kind of liking it #i might keep it mostly as is tbh

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

Maedhros built up a high pain resistance from Angband; particularly to the burning sensation. Considering how low he thinks of himself, it’s likely he expected the Silmaril to burn him. He didn’t think he was redemptive, he thought I can take it.

Part of why Maedhros acts so viciously is because that’s how life treated him. I can take it if my brothers die. I can take it if I’m damned for eternity. I can take it if everybody thinks I’m a monster.

He’s proud, and he’s suffering. He won’t back down, he will succeed or be martyred.

#Alexis rants #Swear I could hear my English teacher snapping at me to avoid passive voice while writing this #I have been thinking thoughts #Something so miserable and ghastly about someone who says ‘I know this is wrong #and I don’t care’ #And the anarchic part of me is saying it’s justice #because this pain has been wrought against him too #What does it matter they’re innocent? So was he #He’s miserable and he wants the valar’s attention #And in many ways he was the one who finally got them to listen. Earendil only had the Silmaril because Dior was slain. Maedhros’ plan worke #He spilled blood and ruined his soul #That part that just wants to burn everything is doing it as a cry for help: ‘see what you did to us’ #It’s piteous but beautiful #Shall I go on #Maedhros #silm #the silmarillion #silmarillion #silm fandom #the silm fandom #the silm #tolkien #maitimo #maitimo nelyafinwe #russandol #war of wrath

[hopefullystillliving]

Like many things in life, nepotism is fun to joke about until you experience it. Anyways, I Mcfffffffffreaking hate this :)

#hopeful rambling #director's tiny bratty granddaughter got a role that she absolutely does not deserve #saving grace is that she doesn't have a solo song but like #she's gonna get miked. and we *never* mic just speaking roles #she's like physically incapable of projecting?? #and her *attitude* by the VALAR i want to sit her down and make her SHUT UP #its bad enough we couldn't do cinderella after everyone got hyped about it for half of last year #and that we're doing a mediocre-at-best adaptation of dickens #and that no one got the roles they wanted #but LIKE #'you have to work up to the big roles. some of these kids started out as chorus members with maybe one or two lines and now theyre leads!' #of course mr director man sir. that's why you gave your barely-competent 13 yr old granddaughter with next to no experience a major role :) #y'know. because she has to WORK UP TO IT. #deep breaths hope deep breaths #i'll get through this. i will either be pleasantly surprised or bitterly and spitefully vindicated #i want this show to demonstrate exactly who what and where effort was put into. i want the highs to be stellar and shine with passion #i want the lows to take all the talent and care and skill tossed to the wayside by the people who thought they were better #AND SHOVE IT SOMEWHERE SQUISHY

[thesummerestsolstice]

The voyage west at the end of Return of the King is extremely funny to me, because just look at who's on board. You've got:

Frodo Baggins, hero of the Shire, in need of healing but also excited to see Valinor and meet the legendary elves who live there, a gentle soul

Elrond Halfelven, as kind as a summer, looking forward to peace west of the sea, probably wants to go chill out in a cottage with his wife for the next thousand years

Which seems fine. And then we get to everyone else.

Gandalf, cheeky bastard who's gotten so used to being a weird old wizard in Middle-Earth that's he's forgotten what Maia are supposed to act like, will immediately cause problems

Bilbo Baggins, noted storyteller, definitely planning to break into Aule's halls to see his dwarf friends, will ask all the elves weird questions and then sing about their lives and deaths in front of them, will immediately cause problems

Galadriel, who came to Aman half for Celebrian and Elrond's sake and half to taunt all her cousins about being the only one of them to survive the First Age, enjoys causing problems, will immediately cause many problems

(Also, to be clear, these are not three isolated problem-causers, they absolutely spent the entire trip to Valinor actively planning to give Amanyar society and the Valar an aneurysm.)

I just love the idea of Elrond, now reunited with Celebrian, and Frodo happily having tea with Elwing and Earendil, with nothing to interrupt them but the gentle sounds of the tides.

Meanwhile Galariel, Bilbo, and Gandalf are collectively bullying Mandos into releasing Maglor Feanorian from the halls because:

Bilbo wants to read him his translation of the Noldolante, which is written as a cheery Hobbit drinking song

Elrond always complained about how Gandalf and Maglor were both insufferably vague about advice and Gandalf needs to make sure he's more infuriating than Maglor as a matter of his wizardly pride

He still owes Galadriel money

#silmarillion #silm headcanons #valinor #elrond #elrond peredhel #frodo baggins #bilbo baggins #galadriel #gandalf #maglor

[welcomingdisaster]

halls of mandos dashboard simulator... part 2

Recommended for you!

🦊 fairfaefox Follow got a song on the tip of my tongue i haven't heard in like 400 years and it's driving me nuts. all i can remember about it is that it started with this really vivid image of burning ships & it had a drum beat that went sorta like dum deee dum ba beee crackle-crackle and got more intense as the song went on think it might have been in quenya? could be wrong

🌃wordsmithfoul Follow ........... ,,, op....... are you talking about the Ñoldolantë

🦊 fairfaefox Follow oh yeah that's it thanks! :)

🌧️ rainelf Follow SCREAMING LMAO OP???

👒 fllfrrur Follow

🦊 fairfaefox Follow HJKHJHKJ GIRL IM AVARI LEAF ME ALONE 😭😭😭😭😭

🏇 doriath_dude Follow Exhibit #4555 of the insane Noldor-centrism of this goddamn website. Most culturally important song of our age to fucking WHOM?? #ugh #curas fights the noldor AGAIN #discourse

( 3555 notes )

🌀positivitydaily Following positivity for elves that died in stupid and embarrassing ways! positivity for elves that don't have a cool and exciting death story! positivity for elves that fell off a cliff or drowned cave-diving or died of heartbreak over someone who was objectively speaking like a 6/10! no matter what posts get popular on here, it's totally OK not to have a cool death story nor does it make you any less worthy of reembodiment! lame death positivity!! #positivity #i'll go on record and say i died from mushroom poisoning

( 121 notes )

🧵broiderycreature Mutuals look i know it's just selection bias from my beloved mutuals but i think it's funny to imagine we're all gonna leave the halls having transed our gender & gotten radicalized. like yeah mom i'm not the daughter you thought you had but more importantly we must abolish the monarchy #lol. lmao even ( 45 notes )

🏰 Turgon_Of_Gondolin_1 Following Update: Minecraft server is back up, but I've disabled PvP and increased raiding protections. I will not name names, but please think before you act next time. ( 203 notes )

💠 LoveStruckLoaf Mutuals hey girl uhhh. sorry your boyfriend didn't come to the halls of mandos. yeah no one can say what his fate is because it isn't woven into the tapestries on of the world i'm really sorry about that haha. uhh i guess he did chose it for himself so there's that. we're still cool right? #lariel's copium

( 108 notes )

🔥Fëanáro_Official Follow

#If they are truly so loath to restrict us they ought not fear the voice of the people #Which I am sure shall be in my favor.

(12001 notes)

🐝 bee-leg Following anyone know whom I petition to learn the everlasting fate of my lemur (beloved companion)? thank you faithfully #personal

( 8 notes )

#being horribly self indulgent making this #brain kept buzzing with ideas #the silmarillion #silly shit tag

[overthinkinglotr]

People always say “Thorin could never retire in the Shire because he has to be King” — and I think the funniest way to handle that plotline would be for Bilbo to convince Thorin to eliminate the monarchy.

Bilbo has lived all his life in the Shire, where they elect their main leaders in a democratic system. Thorin is the first king he ever meets. Bilbo would initially think monarchy was very storybook-like and fantastical, like the things he’s read about in tales from distant lands…..but he would quickly find the reality of monarchy underwhelming, baffling, and annoying. Thorin/ Thranduil/Bard would make Bilbo decide that all monarchies are terrible. Being a king makes you self-important, haughty, greedy, and warlike. Kings are too powerful and use that power to fight over utter nonsense. They’ve got no one to keep their stubbornness in check. He would come to decide that the Shire really did have it right by holding elections.

I’m imagining a scene where Thorin dramatically confesses “I suffer under the burden of my duties; heavy is the head that bears a crown” and Bilbo flatly responds “don’t be king, then. >:/Elect someone else. If your people don’t want you then they won’t choose you! Im very tired of this whole affair and I wish I were back in the Shire, where folk are more reasonable >:(“

Thorin is enchanted by the strange foreign Hobbit custom of “elected leaders.” He has never considered this as a possibility. Overwhelmed by the Hobbit’s wisdom after the Battle of the Five Armies, Thorin converts his kingdom into a democratic republic and retires from public life.

This causes a domino effect. Other kingdoms across Middle Earth are inspired by Erebor’s example, and band together to reject their monarchical systems. Revolutions ensue.

Thorin’s consort “Bilbo Baggins,” known only as “the dwarf-king’s advisor who first set off this wave of revolutions,” becomes one of the most controversial and reviled people in all of Middle Earth. Bilbo becomes a figure of mythic proportions, loved by the democratic republicans and despised by the royalists, each of which invents their own wild legends.

To the democratic republicans “The Great Baggins” is glorified as a great warrior sent from Valinor to restore the long-forgotten wisdom borne out of The West— he snaps his fingers and with a poof of smoke he washes away all the old corrupt systems of the world, just as the Valar washed away Numenor.

But to the royalists, “The Mad Baggins” is a scheming shadowy monster who crawled up from the deep places of the world to burn the very foundations of Middle Earth to the ground; he’s a monster more powerful and terrible than a dragon or a balrog, who threatened Thorin into submission and brought the world into chaos. he snaps his fingers and monarchies collapse in a puff of smoke.

Meanwhile elderly Bilbo grumpily putters around the Shire with Thorin, mostly oblivious to all of this.

#and that’s my reshirement au. like comment and subscribe #read my webcomic adaptation of the hobbit *dabs* #lotr #the hobbit #Bagginshield #lord of the rings #I would write this fic but I’m already making high effort hobbit fanfic #don’t know if I have the energy for another one XD

[in-the-glow-of-a-silmaril]

The key thing about Feanor's characterization is that he left. His father got remarried, which hurt him profoundly. And he left. In the silm it says that he married young and then he and his household traveled extensively. Finwe wanted him to be closer but he preferred to travel. Feanor avoided the thing that hurt him. That tells you a lot right off the bat. It took a valar stirring things up to drive him into a confrontation.

The other thing about feanor is that his objections to indis and her children have nothing to do with them as people. It does not matter what they are like. It seems like Nolofinwe took his avoidance personally, but it wasn't personal. It was about Miriel, and it was about Finwe, and it was about Feanor, and it was kind of about the Valar, too. But who indis was, who Nolofinwe was, these things did not enter into it. There was nothing Nolofinwe could ever have done or said to make feanor accept him as a brother, because the rift had nothing to do with Nolofinwe.

#silm #the silmarillion #feanor #nolofinwe #fingolfin

[echo-bleu]

I feel like the way the Valar treat the Children (the Eldar especially) is kind of like... late adolescents. Yes, you're technically an adult and we'll give you some independence, but we're also absolutely going to make your decisions for you if we think it's best for you. Besides, you're living in our house, that means you obey our rules.

Oh, you think exile for 120 years being grounded for a year is an unjust punishment for drawing a sword on Fingolfin punching your half-brother? Well what are you gonna do, uh? Leave this house?

Oh, you want to got to war against Morgoth go to art school when I, who pays for your studies, decided you should study law? Well go on then, but you better hope to be successful, because I'm not going to provide aid and weapons give you a single cent. And don't come back crying if you predictably fail to make a living. And don't expect us to take pity when you're in Mandos keep your room for you while you're gone.

You got caught kinslaying doing drugs? Well I won't have any of that in my house. You can go get burned by a Silmaril spend a few months in jail, it will teach you. And you failed to kill the evil overlord sue your terrible landlord? Maybe you should have gone to law school after all, uh? How about I deal with the landlord for you, destroy Beleriand in the process take the damage and interest money for myself (I advocated for you, after all) and leave you homeless unless you crawl back home on your knees?

(I'm writing some War of Wrath pieces and trying to restrain myself from being too mean to Eönwë, this is a good release. I don't think the Valar actually mean to be quite that bad, they're just... making some decisions.)

#silmarillion #tolkien #i don't know if this needs a warning or something tbh #anti valar #i guess? #terrible (parents) guardians #tolkien meta

[valacirya]

Decided to make a post about how most (not all) of Thingol's actions that fans criticize were justified (or at least understandable) and in the interest of his people. I'd recommend checking out warrioreowynofrohan and imakemywings for far more comprehensive meta about the tall boi. Also, no quotes because I'm lazy, but all the canon I mention is from the published Silmarillion.

*************************************************************

1. Quenya ban

I've seen the Quenya ban be described as cultural genocide which icks me out. First of all, maybe don't use genocide to describe fictional characters in a fictional universe, especially when it's happening to real people and cultures. Second of all, that term is still inaccurate. Quenya was spoken in Gondolin, probably in Hithlum and Nargothrond too, and no one was punished for it. Earendil could speak Quenya. The Numenoreans could speak Quenya. Bilbo fucking Baggins could speak Quenya.

The ban was a nonviolent way for Thingol to enact some sort of consequence for the people who murdered his brother's people, stole their ships, and then took advantage of his hospitality while keeping this heinous secret. And it was a way to make sure that Sindarin remained the lingua franca of Beleriand, because the Noldor had already proven their disdain towards the Sindar and their intent to establish their own kingdoms. I think it was imakemywings who said that the ban was also a soft power move to show how all the Sindar who worked with/under the Noldor were still ultimately loyal to Thingol and would obey his decree.

So no, the Quenya ban was not racist or xenophobic or cultural genocide. Again, don't use those terms to describe fiction, and if you insist on doing so, at least look them up in the dictionary first.

2. Isolationism

No he wasn't. He was friends with the dwarves, the Laiquendi, and the Falathrim. He made a mutually beneficial alliance with the Haladin. He was rightfully wary of the (armed-to-the-teeth and hiding something) Noldor but even after he learns about the kinslaying he says he won't cut off relations with the Nolofinweans indefinitely because he recognizes that they're in the fight against Morgoth together.

The Girdle of Melian was only put in place after the first battle when Denethor was killed and it was absolutely the right decision strategically. Thingol knew immediately what it took the Noldor 400 years and countless deaths to understand: there was no defeating Morgoth without the Valar. So he took his people and anyone else who was willing, and he created a kingdom with a semblance of peace where they could thrive. Doriath was a fortress and a symbol of hope for Beleriand. As long as Doriath stood, Morgoth hadn't won completely. No one who cared about Beleriand would have sacrificed that hope for some fanciful ideals of vengeance and glory. And don't forget, he let Beleg and Mablung participate in the Nirnaeth. The fact that only those two went means that no one else in Doriath was willing to fight.

3. Maedhros's comment about a king is he who can hold his own

The arrogance. I'm sorry, Mr. I Got Fooled By Morgoth, were you able to hold your own? You'd be a skeleton hanging from a cliff if Fingon hadn't rescued you. Thingol was filling his armories while the Noldor were still chilling in Valinor. Thingol was battling Morgoth while the Noldor were betraying each other and abandoning their home. He literally said: "...elsewhere there are many of my people, and I would not have them restrained of their freedom, still less ousted from their homes." Those are the words of a king who feels responsible for the people outside of Doriath too. Also, check out the difference between Maedhros's "we'll go wherever we want" comment and Thingol's "I don't like them but they'll be the deadliest foes of Morgoth".

His decision to retreat and put up the Girdle was strategically sound. Many Laiquendi joined him after Denethor's death and the Falathrim came and went freely. He had a choice between spreading out his already depleted forces to help the northern Sindar/Falathrim (and likely get annihilated) or retreat, recover, and wait for a better opportunity (the arrival of the Noldor was not a better opportunity; like I said, he knew only the Valar could defeat Morgoth, and Melian also sensed the Doom). Again, Doriath was a symbol of hope. "Gondor wanes, you say. But Gondor stands." Its survival was essential.

4. Attitude towards Men

Look I'm not going to defend his less-than-stellar attitude, but I do think it's exaggerated by the fandom. Before Beren came, Thingol still agreed to let the Haladin dwell in his territory. He even sent the marchwardens to aid them against orcs. And the minute he realizes Beren's loyalty, bravery, and true love for Luthien, he changes and welcomes him (and also appreciates his humor). He treats Turin like a son, and honors and pities Hurin even when Hurin disrespects him. Turgon otoh refuses to let Hurin into Gondolin even though they were actually friends.

5. Didn't join the Union of Maedhros

See: reasons above. Doriath had to survive. Elves could not defeat Morgoth without the Valar. Also, afaik he didn't actually have an army, just the marchwardens and his guard. Also also, Maedhros had subtly threatened him, Celegorm and Curufin had openly threatened him, and this was after they kidnapped and tried to forcibly marry Luthien. Also also also, he "went not to war, nor any out of Doriath save Mablung and Beleg" meaning the general populace didn't want to fight either.

6. Didn't accept refugees

As far as I'm aware, this is completely fanon. The (Noldorin, just fyi) refugees of Nargothrond are accepted into Doriath, as are the Sindar after Bragollach. Curufin and Celegorm's people join Amrod in Ossiriand I believe after the Nirnaeth. There's no canonical basis for this claim.

7. Responsible for Finrod's death

Nah dude. I'm not saying he was right in setting the quest, it was absolutely a horrible quest. But Finrod decided of his own free will to help Beren. You can say that he wouldn't have died if Thingol hadn't set the quest, but that's like saying if Morgoth hadn't stolen the Silmarils, the kinslayings wouldn't have happened. Objectively true, but missing a whole lotta nuance and absolving the Feanorians of their culpability. And I'm not comparing Thingol with Morgoth so don't start.

*************************************************************

The criticisms I don't mention are the ones I agree with. He should have listened to Melian. He should have reasoned with the dwarves instead of insulting them; honestly, his death was pretty stupid. He probably should have been a little more willing to establish relations with the Nolofinweans, but I understand completely why he didn't. He definitely shouldn't have fucked with the Silmaril but tbh, that seemed like one of the parts where a bigger force was determining things, like it was written in the Music already, because that Silmaril did play a key role in Morgoth's defeat.

In conclusion: Thingol rocked, fandom shocked.

Obligatory disclaimer: I meant no offense to anybody, and everyone is entitled to hold their own opinion on the Silm and its characters.

#rereading this and laughing at how worked up I got #but i meant every work #elu thingol defense club 2kforever #thingol

[imakemywings]

Hey, are you still bitter about the treatment Thingol gets in the fandom? Because I am, even if it's 2023. The fact that people have such visceral reactions and threw a huge hissy fit in response to Thingol banning Quenya as if his banning is equivalent to a mass slaughter when said mass slaughterers are claiming lands in Beleriand and mocks Thingol's kingship is funny to me. And the fact that people mock and shit on Thingol for being pissed at the kinslaying at Aqualonde because he wasn't even there, like hello? That's his brother's people tf? Who wouldn't be pissed when you find out your brother's family legit got slaughtered? He has flaws but like so do many characters in silm, yet he gets so much hate and is never written with justice because he's against the noldor/feanorians.

Am I still bitter about [X]? yes. The answer is always yes.

People's attitudes towards Thingol in this fandom are a perfect illustration of character-centric morality: the things the Feanorians do are excusable because they're liked, and anything Thingol does is worthy of scorn because he is not liked. That's how you get people acting like the Quenya ban is on par with literal mass murder (and no, I don't think his asking for a massive number of foreign troops coming into the area to show him respect as the local ruler, as a display of good faith if nothing else, was unreasonable).

Look, I get why Thingol is not a big fan favorite. He suffers from "show not tell" where although Tolkien tells us he was a wise and beloved king, most of what we're shown in detail are things he fucked up. He also plays the King Triton role with Beren and Luthien, and no one likes a guy who stands in the way of ~true love~. Additionally, some of his most likeable moments come in Children of Hurin, which is, of course, not a part of the core Silmarillion. We get a lot less detail in Silm about Turin's time in Doriath, which is when we see a lot more of Thingol in CoH and where we see his attitude on mortals make a complete 180 (he is in fact the only Elf lord to ever foster a Man). But even within Silm, it's rarely acknowledged that in the end, he does support Beren and Luthien's marriage.

"And it seemed to Thingol that this Man was unlike all other mortal Men, and among the great in Arda, and the love of Luthien a thing new and strange; and he perceived that their doom might not be withstood by any power of the world. Therefore at last he yielded his will, and Beren took the hand of Luthien before the throne of her father."

He seats Beren at his left hand--it's hard to overstate the significance of that.

"Then Thingol's mood was softened; and Beren sat before his throne upon the left, and Luthien upon the right, and they told the tale of the Quest..."

I think it is relevant to remember that in accepting Luthien's marriage to Beren, Thingol is necessarily accepting her death--the death of his only child, whom he holds dearer than all the land and wealth of Doriath. That doesn't make his actions in B&L right, but I think it makes them understandable.

Later, when the forces of Doriath go to hunt Carcaroth, Beren and Thingol hunt together.

"...Huan leaped from the thicket upon the back of the Wolf, and they fell together fighting bitterly; and no battle of wolf and hound has been like to it, for in the baying of Huan was heard the voice of the horns of Orome and the wrath of the Valar, but in the howls of Carcaroth was the hate of Morgoth and malice crueller than teeth of steel...There they fought to the death; but Thingol gave no heed, for he knelt beside Beren, seeing that he was sorely hurt." (Emphasis added)

But also, simply because he repeatedly comes into conflict with the sons of Feanor, he was doomed to be recast as a villain by the fandom because the sons are so popular that anyone who dislikes them is going to get shafted by the fandom. Hating on Thingol is so accepted in this fandom people don't even seem to regard it as character bashing to come onto posts or fics about Thingol and share how much they don't like him/think he's an asshole/whatever.

I really don't think there is an overreaction to hearing about unprovoked mass murder. I really think most of us would react very badly to finding out that someone we'd had dealings with had slaughtered a bunch of people, whether or not we were related to the victims. It's been said before but I'll drag it out again: Thingol had to do something. As king, he did not have the option of not reacting to that--that it happened, or that the Noldor tried to conceal it. The Quenya ban was arguably a mid-level response (Furthermore, it was a pretty deft display of Thingol's soft power--Maedhros scoffs at his claim to be king of Beleriand, yet look how instantly and totally the Sindar adhere to this directive. With this one move, Thingol displays for the Noldor how far his power reaches. If they were thinking about armed conflict with Thingol and Doriath, they now know how many of the Elves of Beleriand they would have to deal with.) It's not like Fingolfin was going to turn his people over for a trial, and accept whatever punishment Doriath's court ruled on, not least because Fingon himself was a significant part of the Kinslaying at Alqualonde. The Noldor, hand their crown prince over to a foreign justice system? Not gonna happen.

I will link to my tag for Thingol metas, if you want to see more of what other people have stated more eloquently about his character and his actions!

Long story short: I like Thingol, flaws included, and it's kind of laughable that of all the characters in the book, THIS is the one people find irredeemable.

#asks #anonymous

[queerlyloud]

Currently reading Sansûkh because I am not able to move around much right now, and I was just thinking how like, all the interspecies ships HAVE to be collaborative works between Mahal and the other Valar, so basically they got together and made OC's specifically to fall in love and get married, and if that isn't fandom-coded behavior, idk what is.

Tldr: the Valar are a bunch of artist friends who get together and make dolls together so they can kiss and fall in love and get married 💕

#That still only counts as one! #mine #jo is talking #silly #funny (to me) #sansûkh #lord of the rings #bagginshield #gimleaf #gigolas #kili and tauriel #the elf and dwarf who made the doors #dont act like you didnt know those two were in love and living happily tinkering and crafting together #valar #lotr #edit to add arwen and aragorn #bless my sweet cardboard cutout man and his hot older wife #truly the most forgettable ship in the series but we all still love them so much #it's just because everyone else's is also funny #bless

[buffyfan145]

Word of warning we just got a ton of possible leaks about season 2 of "Rings of Power" coming from The One Ring Net source. However, I will point out while a few of these seem possible this reminds me a lot of other "leaked" things for my other fandoms, especially DC and Marvel movies/shows, and most of those turned out to be false and fans just posting things for their own enjoyment. However, this is how it first leaked that Halbrand was Sauron before season 1 aired. Some of these do match scoops/spoilers we've gotten from Fellowship of Fans an interviews with the cast, but some of these are so out of left field. I'll post a breakdown under a cut of the major ones but you can see the post in full here. But I will point out some of these would be massive changes to the lore that even I'd be shocked if they do it, so again we'll see.

So the first thing that matches what FOF and even Charlie Vickers teased is that season 2 is going to show a lot of Sauron flashbacks and tell his side of the story and that we'll be in on his plans the whole time. But according to this post the Mairon version is a separate actor and that Gavi is actually the Annatar version but Halbrand/Charlie is still the main one going forward.

They're saying the Tolkien estate gave Amazon more access to "The Silmarillion" and we will see all the Valar, Maiar, Eru (he's just a voice though so we won't see a person), Melkor/Morgoth, Mairon (even called this name), Gandalf/Mithrander (who is Daniel's The Stranger), and even Ungoliant as we get this full backstory in the show.

Halbrand will go back to the dwarves and reveal he's Mairon to them and they truth him because of Aule.

It'll be revealed that Sauron/Mairon had a son and Adar killed him, which was why the line Adar said about "a woman or a child" was said in s1. No idea who the boy's mother is but possibly Amelia Kenworthy's character. This is a huge departure but would be interesting to have Sauron/Mairon/Halbrand actually have been a father and the 2nd Maiar besides Melian to have children.

Gandalf/Mithrander will also have flashbacks, including that he almost sided with Mairon, and even introduce Shadowfax.

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry will appear, which we already saw a leak about this possibly happening last year.

Supposedly Halbrand/Sauron does keep up his infatuation with Galadriel but actually goes back to Eregion not as just Annatar but as Celeborn!!! 😮 So they don't rescue Celeborn after all but it is Sauron/Halbrand and it's making it sound like there's romantic scenes between them but again it's actually Sauron/Halbrand with Galadriel and not Celeborn. I know some of us Haladriel shippers have written this exact thing in our fics and if this really does happen that again hints that Sauron/Halbrand really could be Celebrian's biological father which I would be shocked if the show did this even though I'd also love it. LOL Then add in if they do this change where Sauron had a son that died and possibly ends up having a daughter with Galadriel. It does sound like the real Celeborn does come back too at some point so if this happens this is going to be interesting, even though I know a lot of the purists and regular LOTR fans might hate it.

The season does end with Sauron forging the One Ring, which FOF has also been speculating. The thing is if Galadriel will be with him when he does as FOF reported on her being captured by Adar during the Battle of Eregion with this also confirms happens in the last 2 episodes.

They're also saying too that the season will also end with Galadriel making a choice to save either real Celeborn and/or Sauron/Halbrand as Celeborn, which again could point to above that she gets captured and then decides to stay with him. So this is going to be very interesting if any of these turn out to be true.

#the lord of the rings #the rings of power #spoilers #sauron #mairon #annatar #halbrand #charlie vickers #haladriel #galadriel x halbrand #galadriel #celeborn #celebrian #morgoth #gandalf #shadowfax #eru iluvatar #ungoliant #tom bombadil #goldberry #adar #amelia kenworthy #morfydd clark #calam lynch #daniel weyman

[imfromthemiddlekingdom]

Okay this might be controversial but I do not believe anyone but Feanor and his sons have ANY claim to the Silmarils. This is coming from a person who’s family jewels have been stolen by colonizers and then sold on the market and when we asked for them back showing proof how it belonged to us, the buyer said no because, “I now own it since I paid for it from the money my daddy gave me”.

My family were landlords in feudal China. My great grandfather was a member of the Qing court and my family has done terrible things in history to those we viewed as “beneath us”. Yet the jewel that was an heirloom that got stolen when the eight nation alliance sacked Beijing still belonged to us. Not the person who stole it and then went on to sell it, and definitely not the person who bought it.

I remember when the sale of the necklace made the news and my grandmother broke down crying because she knew it. The same exact necklace sat upon the neck of the portrait of her grandfather in her house. My mother wrote to the new ‘owner’ asking if they’ll return it or if they’ll allow her to buy it off him since it belonged to us, and that person, who was Chinese as well, who knew also the pain of colonization, said no. All because in his eyes he paid for it through legitimate means therefore he owned it.

That piece of jewelry isn’t all that expensive bar the historical value of it since it was given to my ancestors by Qianlong but it was a religious piece as well as a sentimental one. It hold value do to its history not because of any value it holds as it was made from otherwise common materials. But still my family held to traditions, especially religious ones.

But if that piece of jewelry contained a piece of my ancestors soul within them I would definitely be more feral in my hatred towards those who kept it from us. There’s so few mementos left from my ancestors as we sold most of it to support the revolution in the early 20th century and the rest were lost during the middle of the century and those that we kept we coveted. But if any of the rest of the jade and gold I still hold were stolen from me and we’re known to contain a piece of my ancestors soul I would stop at nothing to get it back.

No one but Feanor and his direct descendants have ANY claim to the Silmarils. Just as no one but those who hold claim to stolen Jewish artworks hold any claim to them and none hold any claim to the stolen Buddhist statutes taken from my country but the temple the colonizers took it from. The kinslaying’s were objectively horrible. They were objectively wrong and the sons of Feanor should be punished because of their actions yet Varda had no right to judge who was more worthy of a gem she had no hand in creating. She had no right to declare that the Sins of Feanor were unholy and unworthy due to their deeds that came about due to her and her husbands unwillingness to do anything about her once suitor and his brother.

Thingol had no right in claiming the Silmarils as his own, Luthien stealing a stolen artifact does not make it hers by right. Just because the British stole the 12 zodiac heads does it make them there’s? Just because the person who now owns the dragon head bought it in an auction now ‘owns’ it because they paid out of pocket for it does it now make it there’s? Dior had no right to the jewel, nor did Elwing or Eärendil. The only argument you might make to make Elwings claim stronger is for the Silmaril to be a reparation for Doriath. But even then you have to weigh the cost that Doriath cost staying out of the war and the lives lost due to them raising the griddle and not aiding any of the Sindar that lived out of it.

Even if you believe that the Sons of Feanor had no right to the Silmarils than it should’ve gone to Feanors wife. The Valar had no right to declare any creation of the Children theirs. Havana’s two trees may have provided the light that was contained within the three jewels but would you consider the light that is caught in film the property of the sun? Can you claim that 静夜思-李白 (Quiet Night Thoughts - Li Bai) belongs to the moon goddess since she inspired his poem and her beauty is now held within his poem? Or that the Song of Songs belong to Solomon because it is also known as the Song of Solomon?

The Valar lost all ‘right’ they had to the gems Varda blessed when they decided that the Noldors rebellion hurt their pride and they would not do anything to aid them. And Thingol Dior and Luthein never had any right to them in the first place, just because you stole something that was stolen doesn’t make it yours(!!!!). The only one in that whole line that can claim any right to the gems are Elwing and even that is debatable due to how many people died due to Doriaths inactions.

It’s mainly white people I see defending that the gems no longer belong to Feanors kin and I don’t have to wonder about why that is. When most white people wouldn’t even admit to the fact that their museums would be empty without stolen Chinese artifacts or stolen artifacts. Most of the white people I see simping for Thingol and defending his actions and Diors actions and Beren’s actions have never had their homes ravaged by outside forces and have had their belongings stolen from them. They will never understand the hatred you’d feel when seeing your ancestors work displayed in glass when your family grieves because those should’ve been burned with them instead of being on display. The Silmarils do not belong to anyone but Feanors Kin and all of the Valar should literally die because they are egotistical assholes who only want to be worshipped and when they mess up they blame everyone but themselves.

#the silmarillion #feanor #the Silmarils #Elwing #thingol #Elu thingol #Dior #Luthien #the sons of Feanor #the kinslaying’s were wrong AND the sons of Feanor owns the Silmarils should both be applicable #feanorian apologia #colonization #and stolen artifacts do not make something someone else’s when there are still owners alive

[animatorweirdo]

How to kidnap yourself a dark lord husband? Part 2

Part 1

(Second part for the crack fic. I hope you enjoy this one)

Warnings: Reader being a headache to her family, Sauron just dealing with her antics, Melkor getting robbed of his lieutenant and Manwe not getting paid enough to deal with this.

----------------------------------

Nerdanel: *Sobbing* I can't believe our daughter would disappear again. What has Melkor's servant done to her mind to make her act like this?

Feanor: *Visibly angry* This is why the valars can't be trusted. They allowed something like this to occur to my only daughter. 

You: *Kicks the door open* Naneth! Atar! I'm home, and I have news for you! 

Nerdanel: *Startled* (Name)! Where have you been? And who is that beneath your arm?

You: *Carrying Sauron beneath your arm like a potato sack* My new husband! 

Your whole family: YOUR WHAT?!!!

Sauron: *Waving at them awkwardly* Uhm... hey. 

***

Feanor: (Name)! You can't just decide to marry someone you have only known for like a month! And he's one of the Ainur!

You: Don't worry. Mairon's a rogue, so he doesn't belong with the valar. 

Feanor: That's not what I meant! Why would you want to marry him anyway?!

You: One, he's less loud than all of you. Two, he's hot, and three, he gave me a dog— something you have refused to give me for centuries! 

Feanor: Seriously? 

You: *Holding Carna* Dead seriously!

Carna: Woof!

Feanor: (Name)!

Your brothers: *Glaring at Sauron* Hurt her, and you're dead. 

Sauron: *Deadpan* I'm literally the one that got kidnapped. 

***

Melkor: Well, well, well... now this is something I didn't expect to happen. 

Sauron: Hello, master. 

Melkor: So, what's your plan with Feanor's daughter? Did you seduce her? Did you brainwash her? Is your plan to have power over Feanor's house by marriage? 

Sauron: No. She just decided we should be married and forced me to come here. By the way, I've been meaning to talk to you about something. 

Melkor: Huh?

Sauron: *Slides in a resignation letter* 

Melkor: You want to quit? Why! Is it because you suddenly got a wife now?

Sauron: Master... it's literally been like 300 years since we even spoke. Everyone has literally gone in their own ways. 

Melkor: What? 

Sauron: Yeah. There's no one at Angband. We assumed you would never come back, so we didn't see a point to continue.

Melkor: Seriously? 

Sauron: No hard feelings. I might come back if you come up with something, but for now, I have different things to deal with. *Leaves*

You: *Grinning at Melkor* Haha! Fuck you, your lieutenant is mine now!

Melkor: *Silence*

Melkor: Oh dear– I got robbed of my lieutenant before I could rob her father’s silmarils. 

***

Your family: *Arguing with you in front of the valars*

You: *Arguing back* 

Manwe: *Having an headache*

Manwe: Alright! Settle down. I have a proposition that might help both of you in this matter! 

You & your family: *Look at him silently*

Manwe: (Name) Since your family wants you to stay, but you do not want to break your relationship with Sauron. How about this? During winter years, you shall spend your time with Sauron in Middle Earth, and during spring years, you will spend your time with your family in Valinor. 

You: *Thinks about it* Yeah, sounds good to me. 

Your family: Wait, it's the start of autumn. 

You: Woohoo! Which means half a year without you!

You: *Grap Sauron and began leaving* Bye! I see you in spring! 

Your family: *Sobs* (Name)!

#sauron x reader #sauron #sauron imagines #silmarillion x reader #silmarillion imagines #tolkien #silm fic #middle earth x reader #middle earth #middle earth imagines #feanor's daughter

[tar-thelien]

I want a Silmarillion game. Let me explain;

So, most important is that the Valar needs to have an important role even if they´re not really there, in the way that you can be devoted to one of them and that will give you extra actions. You can also change Vala you´re devoted to, but not from everyone, so you can´t change to Este if you come from Orome so to say, because he will get pissed you choose something "more peaceful" the only Vala you can choose to without pissing anyone of would be Nienna, but only because of respect from her siblings, so if you change to her your previous Vala might not want you back and YES you can be devoted to Melkor, and there the only one you would be able to change to would be Nienna.

Also if you don´t want to be devoted to a Vala anymore Nienna would be the only one who would let you got AND if you do change to any of the Valar who do not "see eye to eye" without going through Nienna they will either curse you or send Maiar after you to kill you, although with some of them, Tulkas and Nesse, if you win over their Maia they will bless you and give you gifts even you´re not their devote anymore. This also applies if you don´t follow their order (go on the side quest they give you) or plain up just go against what they stand for, or you don´t spread the word of them and try to get people to prey to them.

You will also at some chance in the game when you´re pretty high up in levels have the chance to become some sort of Eldritch creature where you can start a cult with you as it´s god.

You won't be able to kill any of the Valar or Maiar, but you can disembody some of the Maiar, although most will just come back later when they have a body again. You can definitely capture a lesser Maiar tho! And there needs to be some sort of Maia (like Huan) who wears the shape of a horse and doesn´t serve any of the Valar you can find and makes your company travel faster than even if you had a horse or warg.

Also you can be any race more or less. Even a Maiar. But then you would be either a very weak one or one who pissed off one of the Valar, limiting who you can be devoted to and was trapped in a mortal form trying to either make said Vala happy or piss them even more off while trying to get your power back.

Last note, you can choose when this takes place (probably only in the first age tho) but you can´t change the outcome of cannon, although you can absolutely have your own little kingdom and fight one anyone you want to but you won't change the outcome, only for your own story.

Might just make it into a DND campaign. IF I KNEW HOW TO!

I have so many ideas, please ask me!

EDIT I know have a blog where I´ll be exploring it! it´s @silmarillion-dnd might change the name later

#tolkien #silmarillion #jrr tolkien

[legitimatesatanspawn]

Hello! Could you tell me if Sauron got wrecked by a dog before or after he created werewolves?

Sauron made them first! What follows is a recap about the creation of werewolves, the story of Huan, and why the fight is important.

Sauron bound a "fell spirit" into a wolf body, creating Draugluin. Draugluin isn't the most powerful werewolf though as that is his son Carcharoth who Morgoth handfed people meat to like he was an oversized pet. For the record to people reading this: Morgoth is Sauron's boss, who is essentially LotR's Lucifer.

It's not exactly clear what Draugluin was before getting stuffed into a wolf but it is fair to assume he was originally another fallen and corrupted Maiar. But it's possible thanks to his title as "necromancer" that Sauron shoved a dead evil human soul in there if only to match the linguistic origins of "werewolf" as "man wolf".

Sauron also could turn into a wolf himself - which was part of the Epic Fight with the Dog. The dog being Huan, who protected Luthien and helped her and Beren fight off... a whole lot of enemies overall.

Huan was literally just a dog. A dog the "size of a small horse" that was showered with a nice package of blessings so he was functionally an elf in dog form. Immortal but could be killed. Prophesied to die after speaking three times. Orome really liked that dog. Which is to be expected of the Valar Archangel God of the Hunt. Note: this is specifically hunting Morgoths's monsters, not wild animals. He likes wild animals and dogs and horses.

Why Luthien and Beren had the epic journey adventure is under the cut. As is the summary of the journey, the actual fight, and the aftermath.

Luthien's father got together with a Maiar named Melian, who was basically a one woman force of nature who protected an entire city-state kingdom by making an Unpassable Location. The kingdom Doriath was basically Hidden and Safe and Amazing and probably had a few dumb policies as is wont to happen when you're isolated and cut yourself off from the world's problems.

Beren... somehow finds his way to the forests around Doriath. Sees her. They fall in love (echoing what will later be Aragorn and Arwen and part of why Elrond is sort of Freaking Out because he knows how this story goes and while he doesn't wanna be Thingol... ).

Beren can't get killed off by Thingol's orders because Luthien managed to get him to promise not to, or to imprison him for the Audacity, so Thingol manages to get him to go along with a deal: "come back with one of the Noldor's stolen Silmarils from Morgoth's crown and you may have my daughter's hand in marriage."

This is meant to be a Solo Thing but Beren asks Finrod for advice. Finrod is a bamf and one of the big brothers to Galadriel and kicks all kinds of ass. He remembers all the drama of the Silmarils and was one of the Noldor who opposed the Oath to cross the artic ice for revenge to get them back... look there's a huge mess with the Silmarils and why Oaths are Bad and why no one trusts the Noldor or especially not Feanor or his sons. I don't want to get into it right now, their creation, or why specifically Galadriel's brother getting involved is a big thing. Like I get the reasons because that's Feanor's creation and Morgoth egged him on before swiping them, but god damn. But Finrod wasn't gonna go with them but then he didn't want to get cut off from his friends who did so he went along.

So hearing "I promised to get the Silmarils back" probably wasn't a happy moment for Finrod to hear coming out of Beren's mouth. Thank god no Grinding Ice was involved though because that was a massacre unto itself. It took around 25-30 years to cross that, or like 9 'years' as known by their calendar then. Even for an elf that's a long time.

Finrod gathered up a bunch of people but most of them got killed and captured and the survivors were taken to Sauron's island where he was still breeding Werewolves for some unholy reason. The probable meta reason is to ensure the existence of Wargs later on.

Luthien sensed Problems so she dashed out to find Beren and ran right into two of Feanor's sons and their dog Huan - who was given to one of them by Orome back when Feanor's family weren't being Ultra Stupid about the fancy cursed yet hallowed gems. And for reasons I can't remember clearly on why, they took Luthien prisoner and locked her up in Finrod's fort. Where she got chummy with Huan and Huan helped her escape (and spoke for the First time).

They got there in time to try and avenge Finrod's death. Sauron was like "oooh that Maia's spawnling. I'll be richly rewarded by my master if I bring you to him in chains" and cue the werewolf attack that Huan bamfed his way through kicking their asses. This included the father werewolf by the way, so you know Huan is a beast (affectionate).

And then Huan and Sauron fought! Sauron took the form of a wolf first and lost, but Huan got him in a chokehold with his teeth and just REFUSED to let go! No matter what form Sauron took, no matter what he did or tried to do...

Sauron got his ass kicked by a dog and it was only because of Luthien letting him go (probably laughing the whole time) so she can move on to more important things.

If you're curious about the rest of that story: Beren and Luthien snuck into Morgoth's hellish current capital by disguising themselves as his top vampire messenger/servant and the dead father werewolf. Luthien, when Morgoth tore off the illusion/disguise, continued to be a BAMF and bewitched the whole capital/fortress into falling asleep so they can pry one of the gems from the Iron Crown. Sadly Morgoth started to stir when something hit him by accident so they panicked and ran out with the Silmaril.

(Fair warning: nothing mortal can touch the Silmarils. Nothing EVIL can touch the gems either. This was by holy decree and blessing. So how Thingol expected Beren to take a Simaril back I have no idea.)

But remember when I mentioned Carcharoth, the son of the first werewolf? He woke up first because, as the guard dog who got suspicious as all get out over his "father" having "survived" (word reached him of his death), they had to first cast him to sleep before slipping into the place. Beren tried to use the Silmaril to scare him off by waving it in the air and instead he got his hand bit off for the trouble.

And then Carcharoth went nuts for a whole new reason: agony in the belly. He was put out of his agony sometime later to get the gem, but this is the best part I swear:

When Thingol saw Beren and Luthien rock up seemingly empty-handed... Beren told him to his face "even now I have a Silmaril in my hand".

Rest of the story short, Beren and Luthien got together, the wolf with the Silmaril in his belly showed up (probably was tracking them) and tried to get Thingol only for Beren to get in the way. Huan got the wolf, the wolf got Huan, Huan died with his head in Beren's other hand. Thingol got the gem, Luthien... died at some unclear point in time and convinced the Archangel Valar God of the Dead to change Beren's fate and let them be together in death if not in life. They got reborn as humans and got a happily ever after together - she gave up certain peace for an uncertain life with him..

Meanwhile, skipping over the hot mess that is Turin's life and why Thingol adopted him, Thingol got killed off by Dwarves who found out that not only did he have a Simaril but he put it in a famous Dwarven necklace "gifted" to him by Turin's blood father Hurin over how his son's life went (LONG story short: a terrible combination of Morgoth cursing people, Morgoth's dragon cursing people, Morgoth capturing Hurin and cursing him, and also Arrogance and Pride on Turin's part, and lots of soap opera drama) to create one insanely priceless artifact. This lead to the Sacking of the kingdom and a lot of death and destruction, as is wont to happen when Simarils are involved.

Honestly, Beren and Luthien should've decked Thingol when he first brought up the damn rock.

#the silmarillion #lore dump #silmarils #beren and luthien #sauron vs huan #sauron lost to a dog #this took a while #the legendary grudge match between a fallen angel and dog #it took me two hours to write this #luthien tinuviel #beren #melian #thingol #doriath #morgoth #sauron #huan #mairon #finrod #feanor #turin turambar #curufin #celegorm #draugluin #carcharoth #melkor #thuringwethil #jrr tolkien #tolkien