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afro-hispwriter · 1 month

Text

The French Mistake was a mistake

Dean Winchester/Jensen Ackles x reader

Soulless Sam x reader(brief mention)

Summary- Dean is starting to believe you and him aren't meant to be in any universe

Warnings- 6x15(doesn’t follow it completely), mentions of suicide, mentions of being admitted to a facility, break ups, so much angst, mentions of anna, lisa, and ben, dean is a asshole lowkey(in the situation at least)

Not edited

Sam and Dean burst through the window and landed on a blue mat but before they could stand up someones yelled,

"CUT!" Bells rang, clapping, and whole bunch of talking started. The brothers looked around, Balthazar was gone and that's when the confusion started.

"Great solid fall." Someone slapped Deans ass making him jump.

"Jared, Jensen outstanding. That was just great!" Said a old man in a chair and from behind a kid started speaking nonsense.

"Supernatural, scene one, "Echo." Take one, tail slate. Marker." And closed one of those movie boxes.

"So no angels?" Sam says.

"No angels, I think."

"Should we be killing anybody?"

"I don't think so."

"Running?"

"Where?"

Sam and Dean looked at the group of guys sitting around tv screens all talking. Then one yells "Moving on" and lights start turning on.

"Thats a wrap on Jared and Jensen."

"Who the hell are-?"

It went by quick after that. Dean got dragged up to makeup stations and got the makeup he didn't think he had on him. Sam got dragged into an interview he had no idea how to answer.

They met up again, settling on being sent to another universe where they are actors who play Sam and Dean. They walked out of the building and the sight of Baby gave Dean a huge smile. But he watched a guy throw stuff over it and saw a whole bunch of Baby's.

"Im gonna be sick." Dean says and starts to back away.

"We need Cas." Sam says and Dean tries to do some sort of "prayer" but that was short lived when they spotted the man.

That ended up being fake too. Cas' name in this universe was Misha. Misha? They kept walking around the lot until they saw the trailer that said "J. Ackles."

"Thats fake me." Dean says and pointed at himself.

"Yeah."

"This mist be fake mine." They walked in and Dean was instantly in awe. The fish tank and the freaking helicopter. Dean looked around the trailer and noticed a framed picture on a table. It was of fake him and a woman with brownish red hair. Maybe his sister? But the picture looked a little too intimate to be that.

It made him think of you. You left the team after the showdown with Lucifer. But he couldn't blame you. He hurt you, deeply. From Lisa, all the way too Anna. He really did like you but his connection too Anna was too great. And Lisa, Lisa and him are good. He loves her and he loves Ben. But every once in a while his mind would drift off to you, wondering what you were up too.

It was a dick move. Sam called him out on it, as did Bobby and Ellen.

All this thought of you made him want to see if you were in the universe. Sam was typing away on fake his computer.

"Hey Sammy, I want to check something." Dean says and takes the laptop and plops on the couch. He starts typing in your name.

Y/n L/n Supernatural

Pictures of you popped up, along with a description of your character. And again the bottom in the little box there were drop down choices with answers.

Why did Y/n Carter leave Supernatural?

Why did Dean and Y/n break up?

Do Y/n and Sam get together?

That made Deans eyebrows furrow. Why would you and Sam ever get together? But he immediately groaned. When Sam was still soulless he apparently went to go see you, wherever you were. Because apparently Sam and Bobby were the only one to know where you went. He then proceeded to heavily dropped hints that he slept with you. It had taken everything for Dean not to beat up his soulless baby brother.

Y/n Carter must be your name in this universe. Ironic how fake you and real you share the same first name. He clicked on the option that said why you left the show.

It was released that she left the show due to personal reasons but fans speculate it has something to do with her ex of 7 years Jensen Ackles(who plays Dean Winchester aka her love interest), leaving her and marrying a now former mutual friend, Daneel Harris now Daneel Harris-Ackles.

"Holy shit" Dean mumbled, "Im a dick here too."

"Whats wrong?"

"I looked up Y/n, wanted too know what she was up to. Apparently im an asshole here too." He passed the computer to Sam and he started reading.

“At least you’re aware.” Sam mumbled and Dean shot him a look. “Huh seems like you guys broke up in this universe just after dad died in ours and she left the show around the time our Y/n left us."

"You know where she is and wont tell me." Dean says with a slight glare.

"She doesn't want you too know, and for good reasons." Sam says.

"We need to find a way to get back to our universe." Dean says and looks over at the framed picture of fake him and the woman. It gave him a great unease.

After trying to drive fake Baby. Sam and Dean just settled on getting driven to 'Jared's place as they should say. Fake Sam had a huge house, a freaking mansion. Dean noticed a tanning bed and opened it.

"What am I Dracula?" Sam asks and shakes his head. Dean walked over to the large curtains as he heard animals making noises.

"Dude you have a freaking camal in your backyard."

"It's an alpaca, dumbass." A familiar woman's voice made them whip around. A woman at the top of the stairs, wearing a short black dress.

"Ruby?" Dean looks at the woman is shock and she scoffs.

"Gen, who is it?" The next voice that popped up was so sweet but sounded tired. Another woman appeared behind fake Ruby, dean let his eyes trail over her figure before his breath hitched.

"Y/n." He breathed out and took a step forward. He watched you swallow harshly all the way from where he was. You looked so beautiful, beautiful in every universe it seems.

"G-Gen." you shakily said and grabbed her hand. "You said he wasn't going to be here."

"I know honey, I told a certain someone not to let another certain someone into the house even though I thought I didn't have to worry about it." Fake Ruby said all of that while glaring at Sam which made him shrink back.

"I can't be here." You let her go and start to rush down the stairs.

"Y/n wait let me talk to Jared and I'll take you back to your hotel room."

"Y/n." Dean walked towards you as you made it to the bottom of the stairs. "Hey." It had been more than a year since he last saw you, at least the real you.

"Hey? Thats all you had to say after you admitted me to a fucking psych ward!? Dean took a step back and you took a step forward. "Got me written off the rest of 5?" You shoved your finger into his chest "You didn't even bother to visit me!" You shoved him fully this time.

This must have been what the internet was talking about.

“I-I-.” Dean tried to think of something to say but he was blank.

“Oh now you don’t have anything to say. Nothing about this being good for me, that everything is going to go back to normal after I get it. News flash Jensen, nothing worked. Fuck! WHY DIDNT YOU JUST LET ME DIE?” You screamed and shoved him hard making him almost fall back.

“Okay Y/n honey go wait in the car.” Gen grabbed you by your arms and guided you to the door.

“Fuck you Jensen, I wish I never fucking met you.” Gen opened the door for you and the boys watched fake Ruby watch you go to the car. She took in a deep breath before whipping around to the two boys.

“Seriously Jensen, nothing you couldn’t say anything too her? Do you know what this could do to her?” Dean bit his lip and wiped his eye with the back of his hand. “Crying, you’re crying? Jesus I don’t want to see you talking to her outside of work, you’ve ruined my friend for the rest of her life.”

Dean looked down at his shoes in shame and it felt weird too. This wasn’t his life, so why was it affecting him this much?

“And you.” Fake Ruby looks at Sam. “We’ll talk later.” She walks up to him and wraps a hand around his neck and pulls him down to her lips. He didn’t kiss her back, the shock of the whole thing has Sam stumped. She pulled away and let out a disappointed sigh before walking about of the house.

It was quite for a mom between them.

“Sammy we need to go home now.” Dean says, it was so quite Sam almost didn’t catch it. He didn’t sound like Dean.

“Dean, you okay?” He watched his brother bring bath hands up and wipe his eyes before turning around.

“Im going too stop asking you about her from now on.” He says and Sam cocks his head.

“About Y/n? Dean what’s happening in this universe, is nothing compared to what was happening back home.”

“No you don’t understand! This just proved that me and Y/n don’t work, in any universe.”

“You don’t know that.”

“Yes I do. Fake me left her first another woman after 7 years Sammy. And I left her for a woman who ended up wanting to ruin us. And them I didn’t even try to go after her after you disappeared, like you told me too. Im fucked up Sam, its better this way for her.”

“Dean don’t say that-.”

“Sammy please, let’s just find a way back.”

A/n- if people want it, planning on making more about dean x reader, but the Jensen situation in this one… there is no coming back from that kinf of situation. so no. But I have a big plan for Deans, I really hope people want more and want too know about it😁Feedback appreciated, I will love you forever

#dean winchester x reader #dean winchester #supernatural #sam winchester #jensen ackles x reader #jensen ackles

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13x02 · 8 months

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Picking your brain about Jack stuff (1 of 2)!

Thoughts on the little girl in the Occultum re:Jack regaining his soul? I've been so fascinated by her. First, she reminds me a little bit of young Kelly when Jack first visits Kelly in Heaven.

(Kelly in Byzantium)

But overall, she's something that niggles me and I can't quite pin down. She chirpily tells Jack, "Oh, you must not be human. Humans cannot enter here," and then she asks, "Are you an angel?" She seems so excited!

Since the Occultum houses the Garden, the obvious answer could be something symbolic of Eve as the snake that appears is symbolic of Lucifer. But her words to Jack seem to imply she's not human, so she's not a perfect fit for a human Eve.

(My immediate thought was of an entity called Chokmah/Hokmah, who sometimes gets reimagined as an ancient mother-goddess but more appropriately translates to a personification of wisdom, or Lady Wisdom. Peter Penchansky even argues for Hokmah as God's daughter who played in the garden as Yahweh created the world.)

(The Girl from Destiny's Child, hidden away in the safest place in the world)

On the other hand, she also looks a bit like the primordial Leviathan!Eve in manner of her dress, so perhaps she is meant to be another Eve. A different symbolic Eve, as well as a callback to Kelly.

(Primordial Eve and the sacrifice she inhabited)

///

She also could be something of an off-key parallel to the growing Amara and Lillith?

(Amara & Lillith in her original incarnation)

///

But I'm not sure. Do you favor any of these? I'd love to hear your thoughts! Here's the script in which she appears. :-)

i truly love the interpretation of that little girl being chokmah, especially with the whole thing being that questioning is what kicked humanity out of the garden.

i have a lot of thoughts about angels and humans, especially with all of what lucifer says throughout show. even the simple lines between lucifer and michael in swan song get to me in some way. the angels, as we see, are programmed to follow a set of orders that god (chuck) had given out a long time ago. several angels throughout the series break free of these orders and gain the idea of free will.

i think if this little girl truly is representing chokmah, her looking like a younger eve was also intentional. eve ate the apple. lucifer let the snake in. gadreel trusted lucifer. etc etc.

maybe in a way she decided to appear in that form to jack because angels and humans intermingling? not really seen. nephilim are always killed and while every angel says it's for their power, i do think there's another factor.

it's the fact that nephilim being human and angel means they cannot be programmed to fully follow the command of heaven. they can't become a weapon of god so he tossed them all aside. the angels are meant to follow orders and whenever an angel does rebel it.. goes so poorly for them

lucifer is stuck in the cage for. ages. anna has a Lot going on and ends up killed for what she does. castiel is never actually happy and the minute he is happy he dies. michael loses the One human who changed his outlook on everything.

i gotta answer your second ask still but my whole point maybe she's happy seeing an angel in jack because maybe jack is the one angel she knows who Could rebel and still be happy after (we're ignoring the finale).

#jack kline #im sorry shal this is me being insane abt the angels too #asks #spn meta

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 1 year

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So when I talk about Dean becoming one of the main protagonists as the show evolved, here's what I mean:

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Dean: "Is it true? Did I break the first seal? Did I start all this?"

Cas: "Yes. When we discovered Lilith's plan for you, we laid siege to Hell. And we fought our way to get to you. Before you--"

Dean: "Jump started the Apocalypse."

Cas: "We were too late."

Dean: "Why didn't you just leave me there then?"

Cas: "It's not blame that falls on you, Dean. It's fate. The Righteous Man who begins it is the only one that can finish it. You have to stop it."

Dean: "Lucifer? The Apocalypse? What does that mean?"

In this episode (4x16), Alistair reveals to Dean what Lilith's plan for him actually was. They wanted him to break the first of 66 seals in order to start the ball rolling for Lucifer's freedom and the ensuing Apocalypse.

In 4x01 (before Dean or the audience know exactly why Dean is resurrected other than Cas' vague "because God commanded it" and about the work that Heaven has for Dean to do), it's revealed that Cas pulled Dean out of Hell and put his soul back into his body.

From there, we meet Anna (in 4x09) who is hearing Angel Radio about how the Apocalypse is happening and the world is coming to an end. We see her intro to the boys later in the episode:

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Anna (to Dean): "The angels talk about you. You were in Hell but Castiel pulled you out and some of them think you can help save us."

Anna (to Sam): "And some of them don't like you at all."

Anna (to both): "They talk about you all the time lately."

Then we see this:

While Ruby was introduced the previous season and has been part of Sam's arc for a while, it's no coincidence that she's now involved with Anna and that part of the story line. Heaven vs Hell, the Apocalypse is coming, and it all plays into that main season arc.

In the very same episode, it's revealed that Sam and Ruby had sex at a time that Dean was still in Hell. In the story so far, Ruby basically pushed Sam to move forward after Dean's death, which of course as we now know, gave her an opportunity to get inside his head. But the point is Heaven saved Dean (through Castiel), and Hell saved Sam (through Ruby) to get them to where they are in the present.

Sure enough, we find out that Anna is a fallen angel and that's why she's so in tune with Angel Radio, and she is sought out by both Heaven and Hell (one person -> both factions seeking her out). It's no coincidence that Anna describes ripping out her grace to fall to Earth as "hacking it out" or like "cutting out your kidney like a butter knife". No coincidence that Heaven wants to punish her for disobedience and Hell wants to just get their hands on her to interrogate her (and Alistair is the one sent to retrieve her). Cas: "She is far from innocent." No coincidence that Anna is the one to talk to Dean about his experience in Hell before Sam or anyone else. No coincidence that Anna states that getting her grace back is the solution she's come up with (think to 4x16 when Dean is told he has to stop the Apocalypse since he started it aka he has to make things right/stop Sam from going full Hell Vader - this paralleling is also confirmed by Dean and Anna's dialogue in 4x10 outside of the Impala). Because Dean is the Righteous Man who broke the first seal, and he did that by shedding blood aka torturing/cutting into another soul in Hell. They're both paralleled.

So it is absolutely no coincidence that we see In the next episode (4x10), Dean and Anna have sex. Not only does this parallel to Sam and Ruby, but also because Dean and Anna are paralleled themselves. Dean: "Yeah, well, we've all done things we've gotta pay for."

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The exact moment Ruby is being tortured by Alistair and Sam is wondering where she is, Castiel (with Uriel in tow) comes for Anna.

And in this scene, Cas takes over Anna's story line once she is gets her grace back, and remains as the Angel on Dean's shoulder while Ruby remains as the rep for Hell on Sam's shoulder.

Then we fast forward to the season finale and what happens?:

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Sam breaks the final seal by killing Lilith and this enables Lucifer to be freed which really kicks off the Apocalypse for real. All at Ruby's urging and her setting him up. It's also no mistake that Dean and Sam kill Ruby together but Dean is the one to wield the knife.

Sam: "Ruby, what's going on?"

Ruby: "You did it. I mean, it was a little touch and go there for a while but you did it."

Sam: "What? What--What did I do?"

Ruby: "You opened the door and now he's free at last. He's free at last."

Sam: "No, no, no. No, Lilith--I stopped her, I killed her."

Ruby: "And it is written that the First Demon shall be the Last Seal. And you bust her open. And guess who's coming to dinner."

Dean breaks the First Seal -> Sam breaks the Last Seal

Dean breaks it by shedding blood in Hell -> Sam breaks it by killing Lilith

Dean starts the seal breaking -> Sam finishes the seal breaking

Dean starts it -> Dean finishes it by going to the battlefield & "saving" Earth from the Apocalypse

Sam starts it -> Sam finishes it by throwing himself (& Lucifer) into the cage & saving Earth from the Apocalypse

The First Blood Shed By the Righteous Man in Hell -> The First Demon's Blood Being the Key to the Door

And sure enough, the parallels even go right down to the physical with:

While Ruby doesn't brand Sam so to speak, it's no coincidence that it's her blood that he feeds on to help strengthen his powers. And it's also no coincidence that this happens in the Dean/Anna sex scene:

Right down to the setups:

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Sam is working on sending demons back to Hell/sending them downwards

Dean climbs out of his grave/rising

And not only do these physical setups look similar (in circle formation) but also goes with that whole below & rising theme:

And not only does Dean rise (aka "raised from perdition") from the grave and Hell respectively, the very guy that the first seal was broken for (through Dean's actions/Alistair's prodding & torture) also "rises" in the episode "Lucifer Rising". And this is able to be done because Sam kills Lilith (through Sam's actions/Ruby's prodding) and her blood forms this pattern on the floor which then magically opens the cage in Hell and lets Lucifer out, allowing him to rise.

P A R A L L E L S

So not only does Dean share parallels with Sam (the main protagonist) and Anna (which doubles down on his own journey/story & the faction/side he represents) but also who will become the main villain in season 5, thus making it essential to the story line we see play out in that season and the show as a whole. The battle with Lucifer and Michael cannot play out without both brothers. Even when Adam is used as a substitute, Dean still shows up for the battle, still has an impact and helps affect the heroic decision Sam makes, and also does what he was told to do in season 4. He and Sam both stopped the Apocalypse.

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And that's why this is so important; it shows you how Kripke eventually evolved the series to have TWO main protagonists: the brothers. There's a reason that Lucifer finally has enough and starts beating the hell out of Dean. There's a reason that what gets through to Sam is the green army man he sees in the backseat of the Impala. There's a reason BOTH brothers are shown in the flashback. Why we are shown BOTH of them carving their names into the car. Why we are then shown flashbacks of them in season 1 and onwards. Why in all of those flashbacks, we do not see one scene of John or Bobby or Jessica or anyone else (not that I could see at that speed anyways lol). Why the very ending flashback is of Dean hugging Sam. Because Kripke was leaving the show and telling you, this is the most important relationship of the show: the brothers, because that's what the series is about. Regardless of the MOTW format or the angels added in. Sam was the main protagonist for the first two seasons, I'd even go so far as to say for season 3 even, but season 4 is where it all changed. To have the parallels that they do just starting in that season alone, on the same level, where it's very yin and yang (think Amara saying that she and Chuck are yin and yang for example, if one tries to exist without the other it chaos), and to be without one brother, the story would not work well moving forward. Kripke did this all himself. He made this decision. And he even told you that:

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Chuck: "So what's it all add up to? Hard to say but me I'd say this was a test, for Sam and Dean. And I think they did alright. Up against good, evil, angels, devils, destiny, and God himself. They made their own choice. They chose family. And, well, isn't that kind of the whole point?" (he not only mentions both of them but he also discusses the dichotomy of both story lines not only for the show but the characters themselves & in this montage when he says 'good', we see Sam and Dean together, when he says 'bad' we see Dean against Azazel, when he says 'angels' we see Sam with Meg, when he says 'devils' we see Dean killing Zacariah. It's. All. RIGHT. THERE.)

Beginning of the monologue scene

They even hinted at in season 4 with something as casual as this in the story line:

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The book poster features both brothers. Dean's Hell story line is mentioned (which this lady gushes about) and then she talks about Sam's story line in regards to Madison/Jessica. And then she talks about Dean again and one of his own story lines ("Home"). The point being, both brothers are included here in a very central way for this book series. "Well, I don't want any smartass article making fun of my boys." Both brothers answer her questions: Dean (the Impala, his fave song); Sam (his birthday, his LSAT score). When Sam is asked his birthday, Dean offers up his birthday. When Sam is asked his LSAT score (aka school where he was in the beginning of the series), Dean is then asked what his favorite song is (he was hunting/driving aka where he was in the beginning of the series).

And this is the very same episode the boys meet Chuck aka The Prophet aka God aka the writer of their story (not realizing who he actually is at this point in time).

It's literally laid out before you in all devices television shows (and movies) employ to help tell the story. Which includes dialogue choices, actors' performances, music cues, set decs and props, costuming, lighting, script events (for television shows), even framing and the shots the director acquires and the editors then utilize.

And back to Swan Song quickly:

Sam makes the heroic sacrifice to jump into the pit to put Lucifer back into the cage (once again, traveling downward and into Hell) & Dean keeps his promise to Sam to go live his life (once again, staying above ground and while he's not going upward, it's quite the turnaround from 4x01 and Lucifer is no longer rising and neither is Dean).

And while some people might say, 'oh those are just story parallels for the season, it doesn't mean anything.' 'Look, Sam sacrificed himself, he's the hero' (yes, he's one of the heroes of the story). 'Sam's still the main guy or final girl or whatever'...nope. Because Dean also made the hero's choice to show up at that battle and stay for his brother. Just like Sam told him "It's going to be okay, Dean, I've got him" seeing Dean bloody and hurt (they chose each other obviously). Because these parallels continue until the end of Kripke's run with Swan Song, and continue on until the later seasons, even right into 15x20.

Dean 2.0 to Sam: "Dad, it's okay. You can go now."

Sam to Dean in the same episode (and his dad in a way): "Dean, it's okay. You can go now."

They both died. In a very paralleled way as well. They literally echoed both scenes together, right down to the dialogue, the hand touches, the dynamics (father and son), and even had "Dean" giving Sam permission as the latter did for OG Dean. Regardless of how their deaths happened or why it happened or when it happened or what they did in between the time they reuinte, the point is by the end of the series, both had died and were in Heaven together. Because they were both the main protagonists.

And regardless of COVID and bts stuff, is it any wonder that they chose a bridge and certain wardrobe choices that purposely call back to the pilot? They're not just cool little Easter eggs. Both brothers are there, looking in the same direction, with Baby aka their home not too far from them and if you look at both actor's positioning, they purposely are almost the same height (by Jared leaning down slightly to match Jensen) for these shots.

The series started out with Sam as the main protagonist. And while that didn't change, the story evolved (by Kripke himself) in order to include another main protagonist, another hero. When you compare Han Solo's story to Dean's for example, that Office Pam meme cannot apply; they are not the same picture. And Dean cannot even be called a supporting protagonist because the story does not support that claim nor does the very definition of what a supporting protagonist is and the examples of where we usually see them within the story. And while writers can choose to tell the story through other characters (for example, ensemble shows use rotating protagonists all the time, i.e. 9-1-1) they don't always have the central story line when compared to the protagonist. Dean had his own central story line that started with season 4 and continued on until the end. It didn't take away from Sam's or put him on the back burner - it was all tied into Sam's own central story line in a way where they both had their own arcs, continued to parallel and complement each other, and tied back into the main story arcs. Almost as if you're looking at a piece of paper with two separate lines drawn on it, sometimes intersecting, but still making it to the end of the page aka the finish line. If you go back and rewatch and truly delve into it all, it's all right there.

tl;dr: Dean is absolutely a main protagonist. This started in season 4 (I know Dean had his demon deal arc in season 3, but I personally don't think he became front and center in the central story line until 4) and Kripke made the decision to do it.

Dean (and some Jensen) haters will tell you that Dean never mattered to the story. That Dean was a sidekick at best, someone who was obsessed with his little brother, someone that Jensen always tried to get to be the main character ahead of Sam or some other such nonsense. They'll tell you that it was always about Sam, that the later seasons don't count, that people only care about Dean because he's played by an attractive actor, etc. They'll also attempt to gas light and manipulate you and argue bully you into a corner by belittling you and telling you that you never watched the real show. That you only watched it for a ship, or an actor, or because you fantasize about Dean or whatever else they can come up with on the fly while attacking. They'll even tell you that you don't understand basic story telling while they do and you're stupid to think otherwise. But the truth is, the story of Supernatural expanded and that began during the creator's/original showrunner's own run. At some point, the decision was made to make it about both brothers and that is reflected in the story line itself. In order to survive, the story needed to expand and evolve as time went on (which is the case with any story if it plans to continue being told). Dabb knew that, Carver knew that, Sera knew that, Kripke himself knew that. That is part of how story telling works.

Ultimately, like Chuck Eric said himself "the fans are always going to bitch." And no matter how loud and how hard the haters bitch (whether it's about hating Dean or having some competitive haze over the characters or the actors, like the whole #1 on the call sheet claim which yeah Sam was the main guy for the first few seasons, it makes sense that he was cast #1, duh, it doesn't diminish Dean's importance in the story, hello), it doesn't change facts of what we saw on our screens: Dean is absolutely essential to the story, just as much as Sam is. And not only did every single showrunner double down on it, that's literally how the show ended as well (that these same people claim to love this finale episode btw). In fact, we got two different endings of them: 15x19's drive off into the sunset so to speak where they're both still standing & 15x20's deaths and their ending up in Heaven. Dabb kept it uniform for both in that their endings were shared, alive or dead. They are the two brothers this show was about. The series (and story) would not have worked if one of the brothers disappeared permanently or if it was only about one for all 15 seasons.

Dean was not the sidekick. Dean was not a secondary character. He was not a supporting protagonist.

He is one of the main protagonists. Same as Sam.

#dean is the other main protagonist #the story itself shows you that #learn it love it live it #dean haters go home you're drunk #dean winchester #spn #spnposts #deanposts #metaposts #dean winchester meta #the parallels are paralleling #spn parallels

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shallowseeker · 9 months

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Shal SPN meta masterpost

(The thought of labeling my unhinged ramblings as "essays" or "meta" honestly gives me hives.) But well. After a year, I'm still here, and I am making and updating this (A) to happily re-visit my thoughts for my own enjoyment and (B) to add to my pinned post.

MY META:

==Most Liked==

Dean, Cas, and sharing pockets

Jack's nephilim eyesight triggering Dean's germ anxiety

== Roles, Identity, Careers, Class ==

Performing Dean, the AV Club, and Jack as varsity MVP

Even when Chuck "humiliates" Castiel, Dean still likes him

Cas + "dad material"

Anna and the angelic non-integration of her own emotions

Are angels terrified of fathering Nephilim?

Jack is not part of a traditional, cookie-cutter nuclear family. That's the WHOLE POINT

Nazi Cas, and the implications for Jimmy Novak

Beware the validity of Cupid in My Bloody Valentine

== Core traits ==

Dean + I don't deserve happiness

Cas + shabby angel of the Lord

Lucifer + cognitive empathy

Lucifer...doesn't really rib Cas that hard about his feelings for Dean

Dean's guilt and emotions make him LOOK guiltier than other characters

Dean + ashamed of being alive

== Symbols ==

Castiel's coat of arms - When Cas dons the overcoat, he hijacks the narrative

Dean, the Cupid, and the insidious motive to demoralize his faith in ever finding "True Love"

Searching for a rainbow + forbidden love is forbidden

Jack ate the world: foreshadowing gods eating souls + nephilim lore

Cas died on a beach! + Jack's place of birth was specifically the famously doomed Washaway Beach

==Car meta ==

Cas + cars (!)

The pimpmobile as a marker of Cas's unsettled identity

The truck is the mark of a family protector and Sam loves little blue cars teehee

Family cars + protecting the ones you love

==Pop culture, music, media ==

Head canon that Dean buried Cas by a windmill, but it’s because he and Cas have had deep conversations about Animal House.

Jack + Dean + hyperfixations on music

==Grief ==

The familial murder of the mother, the blaming of absent father, and the symbolic death of a child in 14x18 Absence

Dean looks around for Cas after he prays in 13x01

Smiting Belphegor made Jack's death real

Harper Sayles and the romanticized first love

How Jack & Dean wanted to look ahead in Optimism and fail at doing it when Jack dies just two episodes later

==TFW dynamics ==

Dean's family was willing to sacrifice him, and that gets overlooked (from an ask)

Dean's Farewell Tour + Avoiding Cas - part 1

TFW are messy disaster parents and I dig it

When Dean killed Belphegor, it was about Rowena, but it was ALSO about [OMITTED]

Cas + resilience + repeat existential crises

Dean & Cas + Covert Communication in 15x09

Claire & Jack are uneasy around each other at best; actively dislike each other at worst

== Breakdowns ==

Jack's best memory was in 13x06; some notes about the scene

Oh, my GOD, Cas. Dean was so stupidly worried about you, you dumbass. (12x17-12x19)

Season 11-12 Lucifer + war + rejection + Jack -> the thing that will give his life new meaning

== Script talk ==

Like a baby lion is proud of his kill, Jack overkills Nick with graphic, brutal efficiency in SPN 14x17 Game Night

The mission before all else + Mary's trust in Jack in 14x17 Game Night

Dean & Cas in season 15: doomed by too much faith in each other?

== Unpopular and/or controversial opinions ==

Dean would never say I Love You to ANYONE in those circumstances.

How Dean and Cas lost the thread of free will in SPN season 15

The incest jokes and innuendos are primarily about class disrespect

The argument that Cas has no parental authority over Jack (and Sam and Dean do)...doesn't hold up

Ben is not's Dean's son. Full stop.

Heaven is a war machine

Endverse Cas + The Nephilim-making Strategy

-> Contrarian takes:

Purgatory isn’t pure in the *good* sense; it’s a suicide trap and a black-and-white, unthinking world (long)

Cas actually DID check out naked Hannah (very long)

Cas has good reason to need forgiveness during the divorce arc...he is not blameless (long)

Does Chuck's female coding carry ill intent?

==Finale metas==

What if Dean dying on the rebar was an accidental manifestation of Chuck!God!Amara!Jack’s latent feelings? (long)

Searchin' for a rainbow + Cas's death + forbidden love (long)

== Funny thoughts ==

Jack + typewriter

Lebanon inhabitants + TFW fake jobs

Jack & Dean + nephilim eyesight + GERMS

Ketch, the father

Sam wigged out when Eileen didn't leave and note and Dean deserved to say things about it - lol

Cas is SO old, y'all

Dean hate-watches Gone with the Wind

Dean doesn't "feel more deeply than anyone," you FOOL

Dean/Cas are that unsettling, unhinged couple who looks absolutely demented when they kiss

== Random ideas ==

What if Cas's Enochian rib carvings affected Cas's abilities to hear Sam and Dean's prayers?

== SPNwin ==

There’s a lot of merit in being anti-destiny, anti-soulmate, anti-chosen-one, anti-Cupid, anti-mirrors/anti-parallels. (long)

Natural crisis points built into The Winchesters character arcs (long)

To be updated.

///

(Text Attributions// Supernatural scripts here via @spnscripthunt. Transcripts are located here via SPNWiki. Visit their Tumblr to donate.)

#for pinned post

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anarchyforcanon · 2 years

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Forever drinking my ‘all sam parallels are also lucifer parallels’ juice PLS tell us abt jesus!lucifer

mwahaha okay okay (just understand that this all makes sense in my head so i hope it does for yours as well)

So this also falls into my vague "reincarnation" hc as well, that someone doesn't have to die for Chuck to reuse a character mold, for example: Michael/Lucifer=Cain/Abel=Dean/Sam

Lucifer has two falls, when he was first kicked out of Heaven to Earth after he created sin in the Garden of Eden and created demons, and the second time where he was kicked from both Heaven and Earth into Hell for striking a full rebellion against Heaven. Lucifer created the first few demons, Lilith and Cain, before he fell for the first time. This goes slightly off canon, where Lucifer doesn't give the Mark to Cain until later, right before his second fall.

Remember when Anna threw herself from Heaven and was reborn as a human? Yea.. exactly what happened with Lucifer when he was kicked from Heaven to Earth, where he was born from Mary (Sam parallels.) smth smth about mary being the prequel (?) bloodline to the winchesters/campbells. At this point, Chuck has hidden himself inside Heaven and is giving no orders, so the (arch)angels are unsure of what the new energy on Earth is about and if it's a new project from God. They believe Lucifer to be hiding out on Earth, embarrassed from his fall and waiting for forgiveness from God, if that's to ever come.

This follows with the known story of Gabriel coming to Earth to tell Mary of her pregnancy, but instead of a celebration, it's a warning as the heavenly host is unsure of what to expect from the birth but they do not want to kill the child in case it is a gift from God (Sam and Jack parallels.) There is something dark coming from her womb as Lucifer still possesses the Mark of Cain.

When he is born, his human life roughly parallels the beginning of his angelic life. He believes himself to be the child of God as he truly is, but he doesn't know how true it is. Lucifer has a small amount of access and control of his grace, which allows him to turn water to wine, walk across water, yknow. It follows into the normal Jesus stories, except Lucifer is slowly falling deeper into the indoctrination of the Mark.

This is only a vague thought right now, but something about Jesus!Lucifer accidently relearning how to twist human souls on Earth into demons.

This leads up to where he was sacrificed on the cross. It's symbolic, as he created the human idea of sin and now he's dying for it. When Death comes for Jesus/Lucifer, he knew immediately that this was not a soul for him to take. Death had become well acquainted with Lucifer long before s5. Again, in parallel to Sam, Death returns Lucifer his memories along with the full access to his grace, leading to his resurrection.

All this is only rough thoughts but there's something so yummy about the believed human savior to also be the boogeyman as well. And just the crisp symbolism of both the past and future that's possible. You also have the addition of when the Archangels find out that Lucifer was Jesus, they lie to the rest of the Host about it. This is why Castiel believes Jesus to be "just be a man."

Chuck copying a lot of the details from Lucifer’s human run on Earth into Sam’s story. From Sam falling into indoctrination (Mark of Cain/demon blood parallel,) Sam “dying” for humanity and being resurrected from the Cage (Lucifer dying on the cross and being resurrected by Death,) and other teensy tiny things. Chuck is unoriginal when it comes to writing his stories, as he believes them not to be copies but new drafts that he can test out. As you know, his creations are just toys for his amusement.

#sorry this took so long 💀#god this probably only makes sense to me and i apologize #also this is rlly vague so whoops #pls lemme know what you think tho #you revolve around me

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roxyandelsewhere · 2 years

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Angels’ trueforms in their most memorable moments [21/?] - Hael

Prints now up in inprnt.

#this one took way longer than it should have and it still didn't turn out like i planned so go easy on it #spn #spnart #spn art #mine.caro #trueforms #hael #hael only had one ep and the lines i got the most stuck on were 'what's an angel without its wings'#and 'if you leave me here in this broken girl'. for imagery reasons #and my starting point for hael was that all we know of her is that what she appears to be at first is at best misleading. an act #she's not very developed her as her own character so i went with ways she differs from other fallen angels i've drawn #where gasnsip steve was mostly curved lines with the geometric vestiges of angelhood held to his chest with those pleading hands #hael's are being held up in place by wanting hands. demanding hands. she's not giving up angelhood #where anna's and cas's and (also applies here in some way) lucifer and uriel's eyes had a certain twist to them hael's are normal eyes #they're crying but they're otherwise like cas's were right after he fell bc she's still sticking to angelhood in a way #hence the hands (like the ones anna was pushing out of her grace with) trying to catch the falling grace and failing.catching the crosses #i tried to give off the idea of empty spaces where wings were and bloody stumps where they were ripped out #which leads me to another point which is hael VS cas in the rapture. they're both about containment within vessels #hael's vessel isn't holding her for much longer and isn't her ideal vessel. so while jimmy in his union with cas became just Man #(vine leaf and all) hael's broken girl is a broken girl. no archetype just a person. hael ripping from inside her like wings #there's no animal heads etc from the translation from eldritch celestial to earthly bc hael no longer has much celestial to translate #and that's hael herself. for the 'act' she puts on for cas at first my idea was to overlay two trueforms but i didn't know how #i arrived on the idea of using silver which is a color i've used for wheels and smatterings of grace. and drawing the act with it #my initial idea was to make it more complex and that's partly why the main trueform is so simple. but the paint wasn't cooperating #and filling in the spaces would smudge the solid black. so idk if this way the idea comes across #but it's like. trueform lines drawing out pleading hands reaching out to cas. kinda remind me of those photos of picasso drawing with light #and they're not a closed circuit like actual trueform lines. one end blows up into thin air and the other goes into one of the hands #and i think that's it on this one. not as interesting but the show doesn't give much to go on i guess. but i still wanted to draw her #shame it didn't turn out how it looked in my head but i figured i might as well post it anyways

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oviids · 3 years

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pls share some of your spn fic recs 🥺🥺

ok, a few things first:

followers and mutuals who do not have supernatural brainworms, kindly avert your eyes

i don’t normally rec or even read much fanfic any more but this is a CRISIS ok (cont.)

there is so. much. content for deancas out there and i have incredibly high standards, several ancient ao3 bookmarks, can speedread, and want to spare you guys the experience of wading through it all.

i also have a section for spn femslash since I was pretty into that back in the day (sadly a lot less fan content for this :/)

I don’t really like au’s or pure smut (I honestly usually just skim or skip those scenes) so if you’re mainly looking for that kind of thing this probably won’t be very helpful to you. jsyk.

i’m not great at describing stuff but i’ll do my best, i’ll also try and add tw’s when neccesary.

i wil try and keep updating this with any other decent fics i find, feel free to rec stuff too since i’m like 7 years behind.(edit 1/25/21) this is getting looooong so i’m going to start making another list on my spn blog rather than update this one

(edit 1/3/21) since this has gotten pretty long i’ve added rating/approximate word counts and marked my particular favorites with an asterisk.

Dean/Cas fic:

So Says The Sword*** - explicit/85k. FUCK its good...au/time travel where dean is not pulled out of hell by cas and says yes to becoming the michael sword. honestly could serve as an alternative to actually watching the show, if you want to get into dean/cas without actually doing that to yourself.

Fata morgana.* - teen/6k, pst s9 finale. very bela centric and i love it, she finds cas looking for dean in hell.

Redemption Road -misc/600+k. an incredibly long fic from a collaborative writing group back in the day. canon divergent from the end of s6 on, has a cool take on godstiel and the leviathans, as well as the lovecratian mythos connection. ngl when i reread it i only made it about 28% in but imo the casual reader can actually stop around there, the rest concerns a lovecraftian apocalypse that is still good (i think i don’t remember it very well) but not required to enjoy the first half. if you prefer i have an ebook version i can send you on gdrive.

Someone Who's Feeling For Me* - mature/45k, s12. they run into lisa braeden and dean thinks cas is into her while cas thinks dean still likes her. treats lisa way better than the show ever did and the miscommunication is pretty funny rather than annoying.

a turn of the earth - mature/95k. time travel fic where cas from s10 keeps showing up in deans life from a few years before s1 to right before the hellhounds take his soul. slow burn, good character study, and at one point cas punches the dad in the face and it rules.

On the Wings of War - teen/85k, canon divergent s5. dean accidentally becomes the Horseman of War. plays fun, fast and loose with biblical lore, michael has some rights.

Named - mature/95k, alternate s5. EXTREMELY blasphemous in a fun sexy way. manages to predict metatron almost to a T. there’s one major character death and its literally jesus christ, everyone is very sad about it and it sets the rest of the story rolling. an alternate interpretation of cas’ mission to raise dean from hell which had me on the floor. ngl its kind of misogynistic at points, but its from 2010 and tracks with late oughts-2010 spn (sorry anna the author did you dirty here:/).

The Girlfriend Experience - explicit/15k. uhhh i don’t normally rec or even read smutty stuff unless someone i know is specifically asking for it but this has stuff like sam trying to be a good ally and dean thinking holding hands with cas is ‘kinda gay :/’ minutes after having gay sex with him.

i crippled your heart a hundred times - explicit/19k, s8. cas confesses his feelings and dean spends a long time getting his head out of his ass about it. truly hits different after the actual confession, despite being written six years early it feels like its actually what could have gone down more or less if the writers weren’t talentless demons who hate us.

My Roots Take Flight** - mature/125k. reverse au where cas is a hunter and dean’s an angel...OR IS IT???? an alternate retelling of s4. tw for briefly being set in a psychiatric hospital/the hospital being mentioned somewhat frequently throughout the fic, plus more references to torture in hell and heaven than usual.

The One Thing You Can't Lose* - teen/4k.you know those posts about how cas is a super-strong super-tough ancient warrior but he just lets dean tug him around because he likes it? thats it thats the fic.

Hands, From Which All Things Are Built - teen/14k, post s8′s ‘goodbye stranger.’ cas is on the run with the angel tablet but keeps in touch with sam and dean by text, he and dean still manage to be terrible at Actual communication.

Autrement, Danger - or, The Account of an Exceedingly Long Day - mature/30k, post s11. a monster that takes the appearance of your soulmate leads to some wild miscommunications and dealing with years of repression, also dean gets to see cas’ true form which is always cool. tw for non-graphic mentions of underage sexual assault/sex work.

Down to Agincourt - mature/explicit/900++++k, endverse continuation. endverse!cas survives his encounter with lucifer and discovers another time-displaced dean from s7. i’ve only read the two of four parts but its really good, veeeeery slow burn, has a lot of fun oc’s and takes a rather surprising but (imo) entertaining and intriguing turn into Hellenic history and mythology. usual tw’s for endverse/endverse!cas but nothing graphic, it’s actually pretty light-hearted (relatively speaking of course).

Nothing Equals the Splendor** - explicit/8k, THEE finale fix it fic you’ve been waiting for! posits that the entire final episode was just a (very bad and lame) djinn’s vision.

like moses and batman and james dean - explicit/31k, post s8. explores dean’s trauma and internalized homophoba from his technically canon experience with sex work and its impact on his relationship with cas. the sex work itself isn’t really shown in any detail but it’s still a relatively heavy fic.

Crazy Diamonds - explicit/25k, s4/alternate s14. fresh-out-of-hell dean and dean from 10 years in the future are displaced from time and sent to each other’s present.

where the weeds take root - explicit/30k. au where the men of letters kick them out of the bunker and they accidentally move out into the country, get over their codependence and semi retire. featuring chicken coop building, sam volunteering at a dog shelter, gardening, and blissfully mundane domesticity.

No Resting Place - teen/6k. djinn dream fic, switches back and forth between cas’ dream of being married to dean and retired from hunting to the aftermath when he wakes up. tw for brief mention of suicide since, y’know, djinn dream.

any port in a storm - mature/52k. post s8 finale. cas and dean have to pose as a couple going through a rough patch for a case and actually deal with their emotional baggage, cas struggles with being human and metatron is up to stuff.

all this and heaven too* - explicit/7k. in the author’s own words ‘...a love letter to every trans person who ever projected onto Dean Winchester.’ absolutely unzipped me emotionally and theologically, its just. so good. tw for very brief mentions of internalized transphobia/dysphoria.

Because it is* - mature/6k, finale fix it. killing chuck does not bring back anyone back and the winchesters spend a very long time dealing with what they’ve lost, cas and dean SOMEHOW still manage to have signifigant communication issues even after the confession. tw for suicidal thoughts/brief attempt.

Vena Amoris and Other Old-Fashioned Bullshit* - teen/4k, s6. when cas fell for dean it automatically soulbonded/angel married them, shenanigans ensue when dean finds out during the angel’s civil war. funny and actually written back when s6 was airing so cas is still (or at least pretending to be) kind of an OP asshole which is fun.

Rinse, Repeat - teen/3k, s8. angsty character study of cas as he’s reprogrammed and trained to kill dean. not really dean/cas since its just cas’ pov of canon events but its beautifully written and ends with him snapping out of it through the power of love (also now a canon event!).

Emergence - explicit/59k, canon divergent after s11. dean meets a hunter he only recognizes as their friend claire novak’s missing father, but soon realizes he might be the answer behind the mysterious void in his memories and feelings (aka everyone’s memories of cas are completely wiped away for three years).

Cuckoo And Nest - explicit/10k, early established relationship/character study, cas tries to figure out how he fits into dean’s life and space in the bunker.

Build a Home* - teen/20k, canon divergent s12. sam and eileen are cute and turn the bunker into men of letters/hunters hq and everyone but cas moves in, mutual miscommunication issues and pining ensues.

Down in the River - teen/5k, early s8, cas prays to dean in purgatory while sam and dean try to figure out a way to get him out.

Teaching Poetry to Fish* - mature/52k, ?? BC through the entire series/canon divergent s14 and 15. retelling of crucial scenes throughout the shows timeline from cas’ pov, feat. actual fish and poetry.

the minor fall, the major lift - gen/4k, post confession/finale fixit. dean goes into the empty to save cas and runs into several old friends (and enemies).

With the Kisses of His Mouth* - teen/3k, gen later seasons. dean and cas keep kissing by accident.

Remaining Grace - explicit/109k, alternate s6. au where cas asks dean for help with raphael and dean, of course, does. tw for temporary major character death/semi-graphic depictions of alcohol withdrawal.

The face of heaven.* - teen/10k, au, dean is a regular guy and cas is a fallen star (think ‘stardust’, kinda).

Stories Are Made of Mistakes* - teen/5k. newly human cas has trouble getting used to a human body and humanity in general, but still figures out that he and dean are A Thing before dean does.

Hurry Up And Wait - mature/21k, canon divergent s12. a fairyland and quite possibly LOTR related case comes up and dean goes full fanboy, mary is introduced to the wonders of the peter jackson adaptions, many references and comparisons (including between cas and dean’s ‘friendship’ and arwen/aragon). also charle is still alive and has just been doing fairy stuff this whole time.

There Are Many Things - explicit/28k, s9. cas is extremely lonely/touch-starved and trying to figure out this whole human thing, as well as where he and dean stand after being kicked out of the bunker.

It's A Long Life to Always Be Longing - teen/40k, post s11 finale. amara helps dean by putting him in a magical coma so he can finally get some much needed rest and show him possible futures for him, sam and cas. meanwhile sam and cas go on a roadtrip (or several) to find componets for a spell to wake dean up. really good sam and cas friendship, they actually talk about their shared lucifer trauma and stuff.

Non-Photo Blue - gen/2k, s4/5/alternate s5. fifty moments from cas’ memories of dean.

Tall Grass - explicit/57k, canon divergent post series. cas becomes the ultimate plant dad. feat the wayward sisters gang, cathartic character growth, fun oc’s, domesticity, and lots of actual botanical info-dumping.

on vessels - no rating/gen/2k. established dean/cas, cas tells dean about how he used to imagine what it would be like to have him as his vessel.

search for tomorrow on every shore* - teen/11k, post-finale (extremely derogatory). some angels in jack’s new heaven act out and dean gets temporarily resurrected in 2003 and runs into his younger self.

Architecture of the Minotaur’s Heart - explicit/45k, very canon divergent post s1. dean’s new house seems to have a life and mind of its own, while in his dreams he sees glimpses of a world and apocalypse that never came to be and an angel that looks strangely like his mysterious neighbor, cas. loosely inspired by the book house of leaves (which i highly recommend for fans of weird horror).

The Distance Of The Setting Sun - explicit/17k, post s5. established dean/cas relationship, team free will finally takes advantage of cas’ abilities to go on vacation around the world.

diamond star halo - teen/5k, s11. dean lets cas use him as a temporary vessel while he recovers from rowena’s spell, sam is a long-suffering third-wheel.

Make Known** - teen/16k, s6/7. dean struggles to understand how cas could have become his enemy and whether he ever truly knew him in the first place.

blunt little instrument* - mature/1.4k, post finale. dean finally confronts his father in heaven, very cathartic.

my heart a compass*** - teen/10k, post confession. the empty forces cas to re-experience his most regretted moments while dean tries to snap him out of it and bring him home.

A Crash Course in Someone Else's History - teen/11k, s6. cas from the very start of s4 is brought forward in time by s6!cas to distract the brothers from his and crowley’s plans.

The Cuckoo Father - mature/8k, s7 au. the woman who found cas in the river post-leviathans does not marry him bc he was sent to her by god or whatever, but actually identifies him as jimmy novak and sends him back to claire and amelia.

The Dead Dean Clause* - teen/5k, post alt s5 ending. team free will celebrates surviving taking down lucifer by getting blitzed, cas lies to a cop and gets an impromptu driving lesson. title/description sound dark i know but it’s actually very funny and light.

Suck It, Judy Garland - mature/20k, s12 (after the ‘i love you...i love all of you’ episode). cas and sam have to pretend to be a couple for a case and dean is NOT happy about it.

By Daylight and In Dream - teen/16k, s5. pre-dean/cas, dean invites cas to use his dreams to hide from the other angels. tw for very brief mention of a memory/dream of alastair sexually assaulting dean.

The Five People You Meet in Heaven - mature/22k, post-canon. an actually happy (if sometimes bittersweet) heaven endgame written several years ago, though some details are rather eerily similar to the show’s ending.

heaven is a place on earth* - teen/2k. dean’s pov of some of the times cas left him behind throughout the show, and one alternate ending where he finally gets to stay.

I Cleanse The Mirror - teen/20k, alternate s6. dean’s body is stolen by an ancient elemental and his soul has to hitch a ride in cas’ vessel.

an exploration of gender; angelic*** - mature/4k. *oscar isaac voice* lets get into angel gender politics!! aka cas is trans.

Zenith - explicit/33k, s9. after 9x06 an angry witch curses cas with the ability to see supernatural beings and human souls.

La cucina. - gen/3k, alt s9. dean goes wild helping a newly-human cas find out what kinds of food he likes, or the early s9 domesticity we deserved!

Dean Winchester, Cocksucker at Rest***** - teen/7k, post-finale. john and mary finally come over for dinner and john reacts to dean/cas in a rather predictable fashion. SOOOOOOOOO good omg, its so funny and a little sad and very very cathartic. part of a series that has a few other really good short fics.

The Way You Didn't Go - teen/5k, s15. coda to 15.09, dean has nightmares about the moc!cas timeline.

On Drowning - teen/28k. dean saves cas after he nearly drowns, they both try and deal with the physical/mental fallout (aka the fic where thee iconic “you only touch me when you think I’m dead or dying” originates). tw for realistic depictions of drowning/triage/misc medical information.

The Thirty-Six Questions That Lead to Love* - mature/13k. claire has dean and cas pretend to be her gay dads for a case and they play the titular 36 question game, get mistaken for swingers, and birdwatch, among other things.

Assorted F/F stuff:

Deep Breaths* - mary/ellen, au where mary said no to azazel’s deal and let john stay dead, still becomes a milf.

Like Rebel Diamonds - krissy/claire, they become hunter gf’s on the hunt for cas to kick his ass for taking jimmy. not-so-stealth dean/cas as well.

To Ash and Bone - anna/ruby, same author as the previous fic (p much all of her stuff is good from what i recall). au where ruby is a witch and helps anna when she’s cursed.

Holy Clockwork Angels - jo/ruby, STEAMPUNK au with very cool worldbuiilding.

At Day's End - jo/anna (my fucking KINGDOM for more jo/anna content, the dean/cas parallels are allllll there), au where they are both at the camp in the endverse and gfs.

these posts - ok so not actually a fic but i’m now obsessed with this hannah/meg dynamic.

Tagelied - mary/ellen, the true story of how ellen got into hunting before angels interfered.

Hell's Bells** - meg/abaddon, alternate s8/9 where meg survives crowley’s attack with sam’s help and teams up with abaddon (who she has a sk year old crush on) to take back hell.

The Ecstasy of the Rose - anna/ruby, anna travels back in time to escape heaven and becomes a signifigant part of ruby’s old human life.

Angel Underground - anna/jo, kind of an urban fantasy au with a very intriguing premise (sadly its very short, i’d love to see more if this ‘verse).

Clover, Flame - billie/mary, billie was always the reaper that showed up to take mary after her death(s) over the years.

Drag Me To Heaven - anna/ruby, a variant on the ‘last night on earth’ thing with dean.

Come Home* - jo/anna, canon-divergent au where anna is the new waitress at the roadhouse and helps jo set up a (probably not really) haunted house for halloween.

#if you told me i'd be doing this in 2020 three weeks ago i'd have laughed in your face :/#deancas #supernatural #fic recs #spn femslash #destiel #fic #the alie tag #spn posting

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scoobydoofenshmirtz · 3 years

Text

The Horny Cinematography of Seasons 4 and 5 of Supernatural

So I made this kinda silly post about how horny the late Kripke era of Supernatural was and it was mostly meant as a joke, but then it got me thinking. So I did a little bit of digging, went through some memorable scenes, and noticed some actual patterns in the way Dean and Castiel are shot versus other characters. Disclaimer: this is not exactly a scientific analysis. I didn’t rewatch the entire two seasons for this and there are probably shots with other characters that I missed that go against it, but this is just the general trend that I noticed.

Click on the images for higher resolution. Analysis is under the cut.

So the general premise of this analysis is that Cas and Dean are shot noticeably close-up, typically staring intensely into each other’s eyes. I think we all know about the whole staring thing, but the actual close-ups were way more intense then I think some people might realize, especially when compared to other interactions between different characters. Cas in particular is shot very close-up frequently whether he’s talking to someone else or by himself (there are so many gorgeous close-ups of Misha in season 4), but the intense eye contact is pretty much only with Dean.

It starts off almost immediately in 4x01 Lazarus Rising where in Dean and Castiel’s very first interaction, they stand very close and the camera focuses on their faces. First we have two close-ups, then in what is maybe my favorite shot in all of Supernatural, Castiel steps in closer to Dean and the close-ups get even tighter. He tilts his head and stares thoughtfully at Dean with those big blue eyes. Cut to Dean’s look of discomfort after being told (very accurately) “you don’t think you deserve to be saved.”

Things amp up in literally Castiel’s second appearance in 4x02 Are You There God? It’s Me, Dean Winchester with one of the horniest Destiel scenes in the show (again this is only their second interaction!) We have Castiel unexpectedly showing up at Bobby’s house, Dean sassing him, and Castiel stepping very close to Dean and saying “You should show me some respect. I dragged you out of Hell. I can throw you back in.” This is a very tense interaction with some beautiful low key lighting that pretty much went extinct after season 5. Notice how tight the frame is, even compared to 4x01. These are extreme close-ups where both Dean and Castiel’s chins and foreheads are cut out of the frame.

Castiel’s third appearance in 4x03 In the Beginning is a lot more prominent as he has many scenes throughout the episode instead of just one. I’m not gonna include pictures of all of them because there’s lot, but there are plenty of close-ups and intense gazes between the two (e.g. sitting on the bed, “Hello Dean. What were you dreaming about?” which according to Misha, Kim manners said was “too gay” but they did it like that anyway) and contains the first time they touch and the first time they are shot in more high key lighting. Go rewatch the episode if you want to see more lovely close-ups between Dean and Cas.

Next I would like to draw your attention to episode 4x07 It’s the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester. This is Castiel’s fourth appearance and the first time we see him interact with a character who’s not Dean. This is where the differences between how they’re shot start to become apparent. First we have Sam’s first interaction with Castiel (greetings blood freak) that is shot with standard close-ups. Eventually, Dean comes in, conversation happens blah blah blah and we get to the more intense discussion about how the angels want to destroy the town. The discussion is between Dean, Cas, Sam, and Uriel, but Dean and Cas get most of the focus. The camera tells us that they are the main subjects in this scene. Dean and Cas are shot more close-up and tighter and they are standing closer and looking in each others eyes unlike Sam who is looking back and forth between them and standing a few steps back.

Of course this doesn’t stop in season 4. Here is a similar example from 5x02 Good God, Ya’ll! but the difference between Dean and Cas and Sam is even more obvious. This is the “I'm hunted, I rebelled, and I did it, all of it, for you,” exchange which I find interesting. Some people could say here that Cas means “you” plural as in Sam and Dean but the Camera is so focused on just Dean and Cas while Sam just sorta hangs there in the background.

One thing that I think is interesting is that these types of shots-extreme close-ups with two characters looking into each other’s eyes and standing no feet apart-are not necessarily exclusive to Dean and Cas, but they are usually in a different context. Pretty much all (at least that I could remember) the other examples of this type of shot are between one character and a villain. Below we have three fairly intense confrontations between characters, Sam and Uriel in 4x07 It’s the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester, Dean and Alastair in 4x16 On the Head of a Pin, and Dean and Cas in 4x22 Lucifer Rising. The composition is almost exactly the same with similar lighting as well, but one of these things is not like the other. Very obviously Cas is not a villain and this scene in particular is a huge moment for his character that cements his decision to fully rebel against Heaven for Dean.

Also characters that tend to be that close together looking into each other’s eyes in two shots are usually villains except for Dean and Cas. Below we have a shot of Ruby and Sam very close together right before he drinks her blood and a very close-up shot of Dean and Alastair both in 4x16 On the Head of a Pin. Compare that to the two shot from 4x02 Are You There God? It’s Me, Dean Winchester above for example. There is a certain sexual nature in these two villain scenes (and a lot of villain interactions on Supernatural in general). Obviously, Sam and Ruby are literally having sex, but Alastair is also portrayed as a villain who sexually objectifies his victims (the torture scene with Ruby, calling Dean “Daddy’s little girl, etc.) but Cas is not a villain and yet the framing is very similar.

Now I want to compare two fight scenes, one in season 4 and one in season 5. Here we have the fight scene between Ruby and Sam in 4x09 I Know What You Did Last Summer. Ruby is of course a sexy lady who Sam sleeps with in a sexy fight scene where she “proves” that she wants to help Sam by killing the other demon instead of Sam. But of course, the fight scene in 5x18 Point of No Return is shot way more close-up and Dean and Cas are inches away from each other. While I wouldn’t described this scene as “sexy” (Cas is literally beating Dean to a pulp) it is way more charged...intimate isn’t exactly the right word but there’s a similar but more intense erotic energy than in the fight scene with Ruby.

Unrelated side note: there is a great use of breaking the 180 degree rule in this scene that I think works way better in this instance at disorienting the viewer than the shaky cam does.

Next I have some random examples I noticed that show some of the different shots between characters. We have Anna in 4x10 Heaven and Hell right before she has sex with Dean. It’s fairly close-up, but still pretty loose framing compared to a lot of scenes between Dean and Cas. Anna’s entire face is still in the frame. Then we have a scene between Sam and Ruby in 4x09 I Know What You Did Last Summer that is also not as close-up as a lot of Dean and Cas scenes. On the bottom is a shot from 5x17 99 Problems which is I think the closest Sam and Cas physically get in these seasons before they ever hug. It’s more of a medium close-up than most of the scenes between Dean and Cas where they get that close. Lastly I have probably the tightest close-ups between Dean and Cas from 4x16 On the Head of a Pin. It’s similar to the shots from 4x02 but the context is pretty different with Cas trying to reassure Dean about the apocalypse. I know these don’t really have a theme but I thought they were good examples of the general pattern.

Finally I would like to point out a scene that is sort of the opposite which is the infamous staring scene in 4x21 When the Levee Breaks that goes on for like an hour. I don’t really know what to say about this scene only that I can’t believe it’s real. They literally just stand and stare at each other.

So what’s the point of all this? I honestly don’t really know. None of these observations are hard and fast rules and I’m sure there are times when other characters are shot like this. However, Dean and Cas seem to be the only ones consistently framed this way-tight close-ups, staring into each other’s eyes standing zero feet apart. What does it all mean? To me it shows that their bond is unique and special (profound you might say). It’s not even like they’re shot in a similar manner to love interests, it’s that their framing is unique, it stands out. Was it on purpose? Maybe. How shots end up looking is interesting because it really is the work of a lot of different people including the director, the cinematographer, the editors and more. I don’t think they were thinking “we should film Dean and Cas in this very intense way because they’re in love” or anything, but they obviously recognized there was something special between these two characters. And truly, the intentions don’t matter all that much to me. What’s there is there, and watching it the first time around I noticed how close Dean and Cas always were and watching it back post 15x18 all those shots stand out even more to me. There’s really no conclusion here, but I think it’s interesting to look a bit more closely at the cinematography in TV shows that we don’t always think of as having the highest quality production. There’s a lot of layers to be discovered outside of scripts and acting and things we tend to focus on more as viewers.

#destiel #spn meta #supernatural #the cinnamon tography #yes i went to film school and this is what im doing now

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chaoticdean · 3 years

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Supernatural and the topic of found family — family don’t end in blood… or does it?

I know I’ve talked a great deal about the way the complete erasure of both Cas and Eileen from the two final episodes of SPN made my blood boil, but after careful consideration and a lot of talking with several very clever people (you know who you are), I think what hurt me the most on top of it all is the way Supernatural decided to essentially throw away an entire section of what made the show what it was for the best part of the last decade and a half: the topic of found family, and how they’ve carefully crafted so many important side characters and relationships only to throw them all away for the sake of having one last episode essentially disconnected from the rest of the story.

[Because I’ve talked about in great length over the course of the past week and a half, and although there are undoubtedly more issues with Supernatural’s series finale than just this (ie: the Destiel treatment and the queer erasure, along with the complete erasure of Eileen, the only disabled character this show has ever known), I’m going to concentrate solely on the treatment of found family, and why its erasure from the finale storyline is deeply upsetting on top of being utterly inexplicable. If you want to read an incredible article about this, I’d redirect you to @chill-legilimens article’s, The Trauma of Silence]

When Supernatural started airing in 2005, the show essentially focused on Sam and Dean and their relationship, with a dash of John Winchester and mending the broken pieces between a father and his sons into the mix. The first side character that gets introduced to the audience as some sort of surrogate father to both Winchesters is Bobby (1x22, Devil’s Trap), and he quickly became a fan favorite to the fandom. Interestingly enough, Bobby is also the one who comes up with the “Family don’t end with blood” line (if I’m not mistaken, the first time it’s said on the show is during 3x16, No Rest for the Wicked). Once this line gets said, it quickly became more than just a slogan within the fandom, and it’s often referenced as a motto for the show as well (Dean even uses it during his talk with Crowley in season 10 to explain what family means).

Over the years, so many characters got introduced and became fan favorites (off the top of my head, I can come up with half a dozen already) and have grown within the show, to the point where they’re introduced to the audience as some sort of found family to both Dean and Sam. The boys get invited to Jody Mills’ and her wayward daughter’s house for dinner, spend what can only be qualified as a slumber party watching Game of Thrones with Charlie Bradbury in the bunker, keep running around and bickering with Crowley, spends time in the bunker with Eileen (the margaritas and Sam and Eileen being hungover the morning after in the bunker’s kitchen lives rent-free in my head). Even the Ghostfacers keep popping in almost every season for a decade. The audience gets to learn who these characters are and connect with them on several levels, most of them also becoming fan favorites over time.

But if I had to pick only one side character to make a point, Castiel is undoubtedly the one that comes to mind first.

When Misha Collins came along during season 4, he was only supposed to be in for a couple of episodes and be done with it. But because of his masterful performance (and because the character of Anna, who gets introduced around the same time as Castiel, doesn’t seem to work as well as the writers thought it would), Misha stayed along for the whole ride, and ended his run on Supernatural 12 years and 144 episodes later, with a character that is so beloved by the fandom that it elevated him to the rank of third lead. Castiel is not only an angel of the Lord, he’s also Sam and Dean’s best friend who would do anything to protect them (and, well, has done so, multiple times). He’s grown within the show to the point where the audience directly refers to him as being one of the family, even though he’s not blood, because “Family don’t end with blood” after all.

Another example that is particularly telling over the course of the last couple of seasons is the treatment of Jack’s character, who’s quickly adopted by the boys and referred to as “their kid”, the three of them acting like surrogate dads even though in the end, Jack is Lucifer’s son. Once again, the show makes a point of showing the audience that although Jack is not related to Sam and Dean in any way (I’m guessing since Lucifer is basically Castiel’s brother, he is somewhat related to Cas, but since I don’t have a degree in angel DNA, I can’t 100% be sure), he’s still family, he still matters.

The story basically tells the audience that even though you might not have a blood-related family, that doesn’t prevent you to find people along your life’s journey that becomes intrinsically connected to your story, both on a deeply emotional and practical level. It tells you that you’re not required to have a blood family to be someone’s kid, or sister, or brother. It tells you that blood doesn’t define who you choose to share your life with, and most importantly, it tells you that you’re allowed to choose.

So why on Earth did anyone think that ending Supernatural’s 15-year run with an episode that essentially showcases Sam and Dean and sidelines the wide majority of the family they found along the way (with the exception of OG Bobby showing up in Heaven) was a good idea?

Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, I really do… But what was the excuse for not having either Misha back (the literal third lead of the show, who confessed to being in love with Dean, the second lead of the show, two episodes prior), or Alex (Jack being one of the main focus of the past two seasons at least)? I get that Covid made all of this difficult, but you can’t tell me you’ve been able to bring back Mark Pellegrino’s Lucifer for a two minutes and a half cameo in 15x19, but not Misha fucking Collins to end his character’s arc (and Dean’s, who’s arc is deeply wired with Castiel’s) after 12 years.

I’m gonna say it again, because I feel like it’s been used as an excuse for everything ever since the finale aired: Covid cannot be the sole excuse for everything. It cannot account for the absence of literally EVERYONE around the Winchesters.

At that point, I should probably add that although I was incredible baffled by the one-off mention of Cas (well, two, if you count Sam saying he misses him and Dean deflecting during the Pie Fest at the beginning of the episode), what probably set me off the most is the part of Dean’s death speech where he says “when it all came down to it, it was always you and me, it’s always been you and me”.

I’m sorry Dean, you know I love you to pieces, but what the actual fuck was that? What does it even mean? That single line essentially strips away any kind of meaningful contribution of any side characters… Including Castiel “always happy to bleed for the Winchesters”’s, and Jack’s who quite literally saved the whole world ONE EPISODE PRIOR.

Not to mention that the fact we don’t get to see Cas again leave Dean’s entire character’s arc incomplete. What was the point of season 15, which focused so deeply on Dean and Cas’ relationship, if in the end the entire character’s arc gets dropped?

So what’s the message being sent here?

“Found family was a myth, it’s always been sorely about the Winchesters”?

“Ha! Tricked ya!”?

Why did Supernatural, after a decade and a half spent consolidating the contribution of side characters, decided to essentially throw it all away?

Why did Supernatural, after a decade spent crafting meaningful relationships within the show, decided to light it all up on fire and end its run with an episode that basically tells the audience that none of it really mattered, it’s always been sorely about Dean and Sam.

I would’ve been fine with a Sam and Dean episode if Castiel had more than a one-off mention, if they didn’t give Sam a blurry wife, if Dean had the funeral he deserved (with a rock band, whisky, and all the fellow hunters and family he found along the way), if Sam didn’t spend the rest of his life mourning his brother. I would’ve been fine with only getting Jim Beaver on screen (because Covid) if we had been given something more than just Dean driving for his last 5 minutes on screen. It would have been FINE, if Supernatural hadn’t essentially forgotten about what made Supernatural, well, Supernatural.

Long story short, I feel tricked. And I know a lot of you feel tricked too, because this isn’t what we’ve been fed for the past 15 years. Supernatural was a show about finding your way through life and death and horror and trauma, with help from people you found along the way who became linked to your story because you cared for each other. And Supernatural ended by telling us that found family didn’t really matter, that Dean was always going to die on a random hunt, that Sam could never be truly happy without his brother by his side. Talk about a downgrade, uh?

I don’t know why they decided to throw their entire legacy to the wind. Truth be told, I don’t think we’ll ever get to know. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to stay pissed about it. That doesn’t mean I’m going to ever be okay with my favorite show deciding to end its run with a finale episode so deeply disconnected from their 15-year story that it felt utterly shallow.

They said “Family don’t end with blood”… But after all of this, doesn’t it, though?

#idk what this is i had a lot of feelings #spn meta #sorta #found family #spn #spn 15x20 #jus.meta

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ckneal · 2 years

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(Heads up, I mention Jesus in this, and while I don’t think I’m being offensive--certainly was not my intent--I know everyone has different thresholds, and want to apologize in advance if I overstepped in this stream of consciousness that I typed out over coffee this morning.)

I love thinking about the fallen angels of Supernatural. I’m not referring to the angels of season 9 when I say that—though I love them too. I mean the angels who were actually fallen in the sense that they turned away from their role in Heaven—who left Heaven and, for one reason or another, could not return home by the time that we knew them in the series. Lucifer is technically an example of this—being “the Fallen One” and the original rebel and all that—but he’s also a bit of a gray area too, since we know that Chuck wanted Lucifer to fall, because Chuck wanted to see Michael and Lucifer square off against each other in his narrative. And as such, while Lucifer fell from Heaven, it’s debatable as to whether he actually turned away from his role—not that Lucifer would have seen himself that way, but Chuck is extremely manipulative, and I think that we can read into season 11’s apology scene between Chuck and Lucifer as evidence that Chuck knows how to play his second born like a fiddle. In fact, this might be why, at the end of season 15, Chuck was willing to bring Lucifer back from the Empty, but killed Michael on sight—because Lucifer was the bad guy who hit every note that Chuck orchestrated for him, but Michael had refused the summons that Chuck sent via Lilith when Michael and Adam left the cage. As such, the moment of rebellion that sealed Michael’s fate in the finale did not take place in the bunker, but in the diner, with Adam, when Michael said a firm “Fuck you,” thinking that he was only talking to Lilith, and didn’t realize that he was also refusing an order that Chuck expected him to follow point blank. Chuck realized that Michael wasn’t the hapless, devoted son he was supposed to be in that moment, and was already drafting out how he would break him—

But I digress. The point is, in talking about fallen angels in the Supernatural universe, Lucifer is an interesting example in that he’s supposed to be the epidemy of a fallen angel, but he actually never failed to play into Chuck’s plans for him. Even Jack’s creation could possibly be written off as Chuck trying to create a higher stakes for his intended finale at the end of season 14.

A more interesting example is Serafina, a rank-and-file angel who ran off with the First Man—and in a sense, may have even been the first angel to ever actually fall, since she wasn’t important to Chuck’s plans. It’s also worth saying that this little angel must have had nerves of steel, because Adam’s aging was halted by Serafina’s powers, and his appearance implies she got there within a decade or two of the fall of mankind—in other worse, right after she and the rest of the angelic siblings would have seen Michael cram Lucifer into the cage. Then you have Gabriel, who almost certainly left because Michael could not be reasoned with on the whole “don’t murder our brother” front, and whose disappearance I personally place around the point that Castiel claims angels stopped visiting the earth—roughly 2000 years prior to the series—and posit may have even been the reason that Michael implemented that policy. Then there are the Grigori, who we are told went into hiding because they had to—in a deliciously vague line from Castiel in season 10, that I admit I’m still batting around like a ball of yarn. Then there’s Anna, who left because she was depressed and wanted a new lift, Anael was under stimulated, and Abner—well, I have a theory about what brought him to earth by season 9, but that is a whole thing unto itself.

Then, there is Metatron. And not enough people acknowledge that Metatron was very likely one of the last people of Michael’s personal circle to abandon him. Metatron was one of five angels to have a personal relationship with their father—the only non-archangel in this very limited group, and one that occupied a uniquely crucial role in their Father’s universe. You cannot tell me that Michael didn’t have Metatron at his elbow at all times after Chuck left. I simply refuse to even humor the idea that Michael didn’t turn to Metatron with a million questions, on the hour, every hour, after taking over Heaven—because remember Raphael’s season 5 line: their father “left no instructions.” But he did leave the guy who wrote down the how-to guide of the universe.

And Metatron is implied to have disappeared very early on in the history of humankind. In fact, it’s debatable as to whether he or Gabriel left first, since Metatron makes a point of namedropping all four archangels when interrogating Sam and Dean during their first meeting, implying that he either believed Gabriel was still at Michael’s side, or that he believed it possible Gabriel might have come back and launched a coup or something to seize power. He does leave the door open to include Gabriel when he talks about how the archangels allegedly started scheming to take over the universe after Chuck’s disappearance, though I hesitate to read too deeply into that, since Metatron is a wordsmith, highly manipulative, and the possibly the most unabashed liar in his family tree short of Chuck himself, and as such I have to think this was a calculated vagueness on Metatron’s part.

Likewise, I don’t buy into Metatron’s story about leaving Heaven for the sake of preserving the integrity of God’s plan. By nature of the headcanons that I’ve accepted to explain away inconsistencies in the canon at other points in the Supernatural narrative, I actually find myself furnished with a much more petty reason for Metatron to flee Heaven.

You see, some fans have inferred from Michael’s season 15 admission that he was the one who made sure God’s image was burnished on earth, that Michael is the true author of the bible stories. However, another headcanon that I accepted because it enriched Michael’s character (for me), is that Michael does not know how to read. How then, could he have written the bible stories?

With a scribe, of course.

And here’s the thing: I actually think it went really well. Metatron and Michael are very similar in terms of the unfettered reverence they feel for their father, and their near comical propensity for drama. Additionally, there is evidence scattered throughout the series that Michael might have deliberately skewed certain stories surrounding events that actually took place in the Supernatural universe, which Metatron would have had no issues about taking part in. I can easily see the two of them happily working in tandem all the way through the Old Testament. Michael dictating the stories, and Metatron shaping them on the page before passing them along to humanity. The problem, I think, came with Jesus.

Jesus isn’t largely talked about in the Supernatural universe, but there are two instances that immediately come to mind. Eve mentions him in season 6, claiming that he was nothing special, just a man. However, in season 5’s convention episode, The Real Ghostbusters, Chuck shares a very interesting anecdote when he’s stalling in front of an audience, about an encounter he had with a woman who afterwards allegedly denied they had ever been together, which some fans have taken to be Chuck’s take on the origins of Jesus.

Crazy, I know. But can you imagine how the angels, particularly Michael, who had been without their father for so long, would a have reacted to finding out that they had a new little sibling wandering around on earth? I mean, just combining these two references, the implication is that yes, Jesus was technically the son of god, but no, he was not a divine being, he was just sort of there. Walking around with his great ideas—a host of hopeful angels following him around, convinced that their father had sent him to them for a reason.

And if Michael is the true author if the bible stories, the implication is that he really like Jesus. After all, he wrote and rewrote that story multiple times in the form of the Gospels—which, some historians believe there to have been more than just the four included in the bible. As in, there were more version floating around, but for one reason or another, were not included in the bible as we know it was complied. Which paints a picture of Michael excitedly looking down on his newest, little brother and writing out his life story with Metatron’s help, releasing it to humanity, and then thinking, “No, wait! I can do better!” and then writing out another version, and then another. And another. While Metatron was happy enough to contribute with the earliest drafts, steadily became more and more bored as time went on.

After all, Metatron is very passionate about stories, and he’s sure that there are more interesting, flashy things they could be writing for the New Testament. He’s pretty sure they’ve done justice to Jesus’s story, but Michael—ever the neurotic perfectionist in all things—could not be reasoned with. It gradually got to a point where Metatron would hear Michael excitedly walking down the hall looking for him, and dart off into the human zoo enclosures, just to hide out, because he will gnaw his own arm off if he has to write that manger scene one more time.

And that is why I think Metatron ran away from Heaven.

#my thoughts #the divine shurley family

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suncaptor · 3 years

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66 Supernatural Questions

Which season has the best aesthetic? Why does it resonate to you?

When do you think the climax of the show is?

Describe the different ways in which liminality shifts as a central theme in Supernatural (or a specific arc/character given)

What songs do you associate with which seasons? Which characters? Which dynamics?

How old were you when you originally watched Supernatural? Did you stop every and come back and when? How did that shape the way you interact with the media?

Do you have any psychological headcanons (or canon interpretations) of the characters?

Any characters that you fleshed out from canon and gave more life to? And if none, how do you perceive Jess’s personality? Brady’s?

Which episodes in season 1 are your favourite? Why?

What part of the pilot do you think sets the stage for the rest of the show the best?

Which 1-3 episode arc characters do you remember the most? Any reasons why?

Do you have any favourite writers? Do you have any least favourite writers?

Which season do you think is best written? Which is your favourite?

What colours do you associate with x season?

Which theme in season 2 do you think exemplifies characterisation of Sam and Dean?

Do you think the vampire Madison had to die from the episode Heart?

Are tulpas part of any head canons you have about the spn universe?

Thoughts on each of the psychic kids? any headcanons of the metaphor within their arc? any canon divergent ideas?

What does Sam’s demon blood represent?

What does the djinn dream say about Dean?

What is your favourite part of season 3?

What character dynamics (or ships if you wish) do you think are the best in the first 1-3 seasons?

What do you think different angel’s motivations are?

How old do you think the angels are (or specifically Castiel)?

What are your thoughts on Sam’s demon blood drinking/addiction arc?

When do you think Castiel fell in love with Dean? When do you think he realised it? And if you think the opposite is also true, when?

How do you think Cas’s relationships with the Winchesters developed offscreen?

How do you think the angels fit into the species ecosystem of the Supernatural universe? how do monsters? are monsters grouped together in your mind in some way other than the fact they are hunted?

Do you think Sam expected Dean to kill him in Lucifer Rising? What are your thoughts on the voicemail? Do you think they ever resolved it offscreen?

What is your favourite thing about Anna Milton?

Is John Winchester redeemable? Is he complex? Is he in love with Azazel?

Why do you think the angels really wanted to start the Apocalypse?

Do you have any endverse headcanons? Do you think endverse is a real parallel universe?

Ideal Supernatural ending, when, where?

What are your thoughts on how Supernatural handles suicidal ideation and suicidality? Which of the many arcs of this do you think was handled best?

Did you like Swan Song? Did you like it as an ending?

Should Sam be held responsible for letting Lucifer out of the cage?

What is Sam’s soullessness a metaphor for?

Was Castiel wrong to work with Crowley to open Purgatory?

What does having Purgatory as an alternate place for nonhuman subspecies to go when they die represent? What does Eve represent?

What are your thoughts on season 7? What were your favourite parts? Is it underrated or do you also hate it?

What was the most memorable part of season 8 to you?

Why do you think Dean experienced transient psychosis while in Purgatory when he didn’t appear to have those symptoms at other times? Or do you think he did, if so when?

Do you agree with Jensen the “I love you” should have been taken out of Goodbye Stranger? How would you have handled resolution of this?

Why do you think Sam never could feel pure?

At what point do you think the characters started getting OOC, or do you think they never were?

How do you think they handled the human Cas arc? Do you have any recs of any fan content to help supplement it? What were Cas’s thoughts during this time?

Should Kevin have died? Why or why not?

What was the Mark of Cain a metaphor for? How compos mentis was Dean during this time?

Was Metatron a good villain? Why or why not?

Did you enjoy the demon Dean arc? Thoughts on drowley?

What is your favourite scene in season 10?

Did you enjoy the introduction of the darkness and then Amara? How did you like the reveal that she was God’s sister?

What about the BMOL arc did you like? How would you change the arc without getting rid of it entirely, if you would? How do you think this ties into the previous messages of how to handle monsters and what they represent earlier on?

Should Lucifer had come back? How would you have changed that, if you would have?

What parallels did Jack’s introduction and further arcs remind you of the most?

What would of your favourite way for Cas’s empty deal to be handled would have been?

How passionate are you about Claire Novak, or any of the other characters meant to be in the Wayward Sisters? Would you have gotten into the spin off? What makes you passionate about them, if you are?

How would you have changed Sam’s interactions with Lucifer and then Chuck (God)?

Should have Cas have forgiven Dean in season 15?

Favourite part of season 15?

If you were to tell someone to stop watching Supernatural at any point, what would it be? Or would you recommend to watch the whole thing?

Is there anything you would change about Cas’s confession scene in Despair? How do you wish it would have gone after that?

Ideal Supernatural ending if only changing the last couple of episodes, or going off the full canon?

What are the central themes of Supernatural to you? Did the finale counter or reinforce them? Shape them?

What do you think about the state of the Supernatural fandom on tumblr? Where do you feel you stand within it? Do you like the community? What don’t you like, if you don’t?

And finally, which niche sapphic ships do you like the most <3 any headcanons or dynamic interpretations of them?

#spn #supernatural #ask game #ask meme #I genuinely do not know how to tag this on a whole? please let me know if it needs anything I tried to stick to the canon not fandom #ask to tag #okay to reblog #questions #question game #idk how to tag this at ALL anyways this was cause like months ago someone asked me to and I have been meaning to #incoherents

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eunoiastarz · 3 years

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Naomi and Cas rant <3

I’m one of those people who thoroughly believe that Naomi was the one to raise Cas. They have a certain dynamic where it’s clear she’s the one in power, though it’s not a boss/worker dynamic. The course of their relationship throughout the show is never exactly a positive one, but it does get better in time. Argue all you want that she hated him, but really?? Did she??

If she hated him why, after all his war crimes, would after learning he was locked in purgatory drop everything to go save him? At the risk of more lives? Even when many other angels hate him? I doubt that decision pleased the masses. I don’t know how to tell you this, but that’s her child. She loved him in her own fucked up way. One where she thought that he needed to be fixed. I wrote a post awhile ago about the lobotomies and how Micheal probably ordered them. But looking back on it he might’ve ordered the first one, but that doesn’t mean he ordered all of them. When Micheal and Raphael were still in power it was either fix him or what? He gets cast down? Executed? We already know what happens to angels who don’t listen (Akobel, Lucifer, Anna, etc). I honestly believe Micheal doesn’t know about all of cas’ early rebellions. Naomi safely hid them to protect his life. How else would an angel like him become a garrison leader? Especially one worthy enough to save the Micheal sword from hell.

Even after Micheal was locked away she continued them. Why? Arguably to try and get him back home, to his real family. Her methods are horrible, but some of the lines she says? “We’re on the same side… bringing Castiel in from the cold”, “if you want back in truly, I will listen”, “but I said you could trust me”. Even though she didn’t entirely have his best interest in mind, she did watch out for him and do what she dubbed necessary. She heeded him not to trust the Winchesters and protect the tablet at any cost (at one point even saying that he was doing what he was meant to, even if it meant protecting the tablet from her). She might of lobotomized him, but never outright killed him. I don’t think she has it in her to kill him (or any angel for that matter). So many people forget one of her key character traits is loving and devoting herself to protecting heaven and the angels.

People say Cas hates her and I don’t blame them, he does, but it’s so much more confusing than that. Cas even says directly to jack “I know Naomi and she's complicated”. He says he felt relief at her death, he gets angry and frustrated with her, but will still look to her for reassurance/comfort (and somewhat her approval). In the end the final thing they do is nod to each other. There’s still respect in the choice of their own faiths. The only thing I can’t get over is how Naomi is trying to hold it together while Cas is utterly failing to.

And later? When he returns to heaven for jacks soul, Naomi, while actively getting taken by the empty yells at Castiel to run. Like that’s her child? She knows he won’t stay in heaven in her place, but still wants him to be safe/alive.

He calls her first out of all of the angels and genuinely gets confused/worried when she doesn’t reach back. I mean he makes a point to travel all the way to the portal and call out for her. Then upon learning she’s locked away, Duma overthrowing her Cas is not pleased. Even Duma gets surprised when he’s upset with her, she thought they hated each other.

Cas clearly doesn’t remember much of his early life. He doesn’t know what he has and hasn’t done. I wouldn’t be surprised if while lobotomizing him Naomi took some of the memories of her out too. Just to make it easier. Simply not knowing the angel torturing you is the same angel who raised you seems a lot easier. Naomi clearly knows him extremely well, but he (upon ‘first’ meeting her) had no clue who she was. I think that helps reinforce my theory. Also she’s extremely family oriented as mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t be surprised if she cared for many of the younger angels (seeing how based on her rank she’s on the older side of heaven).

In conclusion Naomi is toxically mom shaped <3

#anyways enough of the archangels raising cas #they have better things to do #spn angels #naomi #castiel #meta #am I gonna get put on blast for this?#maybe <3

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spn-romantica · 3 years

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So I watched SPN for years, right up until the end of S11, when they brought back Mary. I heard that S15 would be the last season, and I was like ‘oh ok I’ll rewatch (for like the 8th time) and finish SPN then’ BUT THEN 15x18 happened and I was violently pulled back into the SPN fandom. I still haven’t caught up fully watching yet, but I’ve read so much discourse now...and I have thoughts. Hypotheses currently. I’ll wait to finish the whole show for real to call any of this theories but, I wanted to record my thoughts.

They’re about Chuck. As a villain. Which weirds me out. As an antagonist? Sure. As evil? No. Can’t envision it. I just finished my rewatch of S5 and, damn, but if Chuck is the ultimate villain, S5 reads very differently. :0

But I recently saw a post comparing Dean’s reaction in 1x18 (I believe) to his in 10x05 (for sure) about when someone mentions his mother’s death. In 1x18, it’s Sam when they were children and Dean gets angry. In 10x05, it’s a group of high school girls and Dean just bops his head along to the song. The post was framing it as 10x05 not understanding Dean’s thoughts about his mother, but I think that both episodes understand Dean. When Dean is a child, the trauma over his mother’s murder is still fresh. By 10x05, the event is 70 years in the past. Of course it still affects Dean. Of course. You never really get over something like that. But I’d argue that after 70 years, Dean has moved through the stages of grief to acceptance. It still hurts, but like an old ache, not a fresh, still-bleeding wound.

Interestingly, 10x05 is when we see Chuck, after a long absence. He’s watching the play, probably happy that someone loves his work enough to even make a musical, but he is also watching the Winchesters. The actual episodes of the show, aka the books Chuck writes, are what Chuck knows/cares about regarding the Winchesters. Despite being God, I’d argue he doesn’t pay attention to every second and all the little minutia of the boys’ lives. So, here in 10x05, we have confirmation that Chuck is around to see that Dean has healed from his mother’s death.

Later, in S11, Dean acts as therapist/life counsellor to Chuck/God, regarding Amara and Lucifer. And it works! Dean teaches God about family and about healing. Why does God listen to Dean Winchester, a random human? Perhaps it is because of S1-5. Perhaps it is because Dean and Sam were part of God’s test, as God himself describes it in 5x22.

What was the test? Was it God’s experiment about choice and free will? About freedom vs peace? Or, perhaps, was God trying to understand sibling relationships? He and Amara are two faces of the same coin. They are siblings, but with very different outlooks and it caused a rift between them, caused Chuck to seal Amara away before she could destroy his creations. Chuck regretted this, but saw it as a necessary betrayal. But then, some time later, Chuck’s angelic children experience their own betrayal and sibling rift. Lucifer tries to turn the angels against God, rebel and reject God. He makes demons, for sure, and maybe even Hell. But why? God figures that Lucifer was maybe jealous of the new baby (humans) like others in the show postulates. Or maybe Lucifer had beef specifically with Michael, because humans are little more than amoebas from an angelic perspective. Aside from Castiel, Anna and a handful of other angels, angels consistently view humans as humans might view dust mites. Maybe humans were the cause of the rift between Michael and Lucifer, but it was Michael and Lucifer’s relationship that needed fixing in the end, regardless.

So God is left with the sad conclusion that maybe close siblings will inevitably betray each other and be unable to forgive and heal. He wants to heal with Amara. But he also wants Michael and Lucifer to be able to heal. (It doesn’t occur to God that maybe Lucifer’s problem was never with humanity or Michael; it was with God.)

So God has research to do, to see if it’s possible for siblings to experience such deep betrayal and still heal. He turns to his little hairless apes, the only sentient species on Earth with potential to parallel the angels. He starts testing siblings. Cain and Abel are first up. Needless to say, but the betrayal was too strong and left no room for healing. But on down the line of Cain, God continues testing. Eventually, we come to Sam and Dean.

God has scheduled Michael and Lucifer’s family counselling session for 2010. All the data up to this point says it can only end badly. Maybe it’ll half-kill the Earth, but it’s finally time for Michael and Lucifer to meet and for one of them to die. God isn’t happy about this conclusion, but it’s what the data says. So, finally, the last test subjects, the last in the line who will be the vessels for Michael and Lucifer’s showdown, arrive. Sam and Dean Winchester are to be the last sibling test. The conclusion seems foregone at this point, but there is no point in cancelling the last bit of the test after so long, so it continues. God watches. And Sam and Dean surprise God. Siblings after siblings had failed for millennia to heal. Betrayals too strong, healing too little, too late. But Sam and Dean. no matter how badly they hurt each other, find a way to come back together and heal. They don’t give up on each other, despite millennia of data to the contrary. Still, the angels and demons push and push at Sam and Dean until their rift is as wide and as deep as Michael and Lucifer’s, as God’s and Amara’s (in late S4). It seems, despite the brothers’ best efforts earlier on, it’s all for naught.

But there is a further element of randomness, something God couldn’t foresee. Castiel. God hasn’t had occasion for romantic love in his own experience, so he is entirely blind to what choices Castiel is likely to make. He provides an element of randomness to the experiment, an essential part that gives Dean the ultimate chance to go back to Sam and begin to heal (4x22).

Throughout S5, Sam and Dean heal. There is hurt, still, of course, but they love each other and forgive each other. By 5x22, they’ve surprised everyone. Even the angels have given up on turning them against each other, and have shrugged and settled for using Nick and Adam as the vessels for the showdown. Sam and Dean passed their test. They were siblings who betrayed each other and healed from it. God reconsiders how family counselling will go with Michael and Lucifer. He figured it would be the Apocalypse, the end of the problems between Michael and Lucifer, as one of them dies, as had always happened before. But, Sam and Dean showed God, that though it is rare, it is possible to heal. So God gives Sam and Dean an out. He gives Sam the strength to seize back control from Lucifer, should things go south.

Finally, the showdown arrives. Michael and Lucifer meet. They talk things out. To God’s surprise, Lucifer reveals that he never had a problem with Michael. He had forgiven Michael long ago. But Michael couldn’t forgive Lucifer. He had to be a ‘good son’ and do what he thought God wanted him to do. But Michael didn’t realise, that God doesn’t give orders. Free will all the way, baby! But the whole thing comes as a surprise. Apparently, all this time, the problem relationship wasn’t siblings, it was parents.

Oops.

Good thing God had a back-up plan.

Sam throws himself and Lucifer (and Michael and Adam) into the Cage. Michael and Lucifer have an eternity to figure things out between each other now. But that’s beside the point. The point is, now, that God has to start testing all over again. Not how to fix sibling relationships, but how to fix parent-child relationships.

God restores Castiel, perhaps for a few reasons because God exists outside of time, but originally it may have been just for one. He likes Castiel. He is impressed that Castiel invented free will for himself, broke free of angelic programming (multiple times over), and did it all for love. It’s novel. It’s interesting. God might even think it’s sweet. But God has had time later, and thought about it, and he has a plan. And Castiel is essential.

But Dean Winchester is the key.

Sam and Dean’s relationship with their own father has been strained, but both boys find a way to forgive John his flaws and failings, and love him. Whenever they do get a chance to see him again, post his death, they don’t hate him. They’ve healed. John’s relationship with Sam and Dean is one point of data, Abraham and Isaac another. There are many data points that God can reflect back on and consider.

But as S6 through S10 roll on, God watches Sam and Dean and Castiel. He even watches Crowley and Rowena for another data point. Dean is his main focus, however. (This is a little meta, but as the story focuses more on Dean than Sam post S5, it ties in. Prior to S6, both Sam and Dean were essential - the sibling test. Now, post S5, the parent test, Dean is the most essential. Of course, Sam and Castiel are important too. But Dean is key.)

Dean is a good father. He was a good father to Sam, even when he was only 6 years old himself. He was a good father to Ben. He was willing to die for Bobby John. He’s always good with kids. Not only that, but Dean is blunt enough, brave enough, and crazy enough to tell God to God’s face what he thinks. God needs Dean’s advice, his perspective and opinion on family relationships, but he also needs to see what Dean would do if he were in God’s shoes.

[Edit (1/04/21): After seeing Michael and Lucifer (mostly) heal, and after seeing Sam and Dean heal their relationship, God finally has hope for him and Amara. So God logically wants to retrieve Amara from her prison. But how? Well, he could just wander on up to Cain and do it himself, but what would Amara say? “So I see you’ve come crawling back, eh, Chucky?” She wouldn’t be impressed with God. She wouldn’t understand, because she’s hopeless too. SO how to give her hope? How to make her see that she and God can be okay again? Why, stick her near Dean Winchester, of course! So God sets things up for Dean to get and lose the Mark of Cain, thereby ensuring that Amara will feel a connection to Dean and stick around him/keep him alive long enough for Dean to work his life-coach magic.]

In S11, God and Amara heal their relationship because of the hope Sam and Dean gave God, and also the direct advice Dean gives God. God and Lucifer, not so much.

God needs more data. He needs to see what Dean would do. In comes Castiel’s relevance. God sets things up so that Lucifer can have a son. A nephil. Jack. And God points Castiel in Jack’s direction, trusting Castiel’s ability for unconditional love to keep Jack alive long enough for the experiment. Castiel becomes Jack’s father. But Castiel will never betray Jack, the way God betrayed Lucifer. And, besides, Castiel isn’t the target of this experiment. But it is Castiel’s relationship with Dean Winchester that provides the link needed to get the experiment rolling.

Because Jack is Castiel’s son, he is therefore Sam and Dean’s nephew. Except, God has been watching Castiel and Dean. And, frankly, their romantic love for each other is so obvious even God cannot miss it. Through Castiel, Dean sees Jack as his son too. He loves Jack, exactly like a son. In this way, Dean parallels God, and Jack parallels Lucifer.

But God knows Dean would not easily turn on any child, let alone his own child. So God had a plan for that too. One that Amara helped him with.

They brought back Mary Winchester.

Mary is the one person in existence whose loss would hurt Dean enough to spur him to action. So, she was brought back to die. It was a matter of only a few years of gentle prodding to get everything in position. Jack causes Mary’s death. Dean is faced with a horrible decision. If Jack can kill Mary, what’s to say that Sam and Castiel wouldn’t be next? Mary’s death is like everything beginning all over again for Dean as well. Her first death set off a chain reaction, a series of unfortunate events that spanned decades and nearly caused the ruination of not only Dean’s life, but Sam’s and John’s and even the world. That scar, which had healed as well as it could after 70 years, that God saw was healed in 10x05, has been violently opened up again. It’s the only thing that could force Dean’s hand, that could get him to betray Jack and try to kill him. If Jack had killed Sam or Castiel, it wouldn’t have had the same effect. Both Sam and Castiel had died and come back so many times, and while it would hurt Dean and make him doubt Jack, their deaths would be a sacrifice that Dean would feel obligated to respect, to give Jack a second chance like they would both want. (And God has been laying the groundwork for Dean, convincing him that Jack is evil, will be evil like Lucifer, can’t be allowed to live. All things God has thought about Lucifer over time. Was Lucifer inherently evil? Was their rift inevitable?)

So, here it is. The big test. Will Dean kill Jack? Will he betray Jack and cause an unhealable rift? Or will he find a way to heal, like he did with Sam against all the odds?

And, once again, Dean impresses God. He refuses to kill Jack.

But now we’re in the endgame. Sam, Dean and Castiel are aware that Jack’s life was only on the line because of God. It’s not something they can forgive, or understand. They’re all God’s guinea pigs, and while he loves his guinea pigs, he knows he’s hurt them in the name of science, of knowledge. or healing, and God can’t undo what he’s done. Free will is linear, after all. So it is time for the Winchesters, Castiel and Jack included, to be done with God. God is done with them, too. It’s time for them to be free and at peace. The experiments are done. God has decided not to kill Lucifer. He has decided to try to heal. He can get Lucifer out of the Empty and talk and try to fix things. He has forever to fix things, now that he knows he can. (The last element of this, Jack forgiving Dean for trying to kill him, is something I have limited knowledge of, but I am under the impression happens so... To be added in the edit once I finish the series.)

But the only way the Winchesters will be able to rest, is if they think God, the last and greatest villain, is out of the way. They know they’ve been manipulated their whole lives, first towards the sibling experiment and now the parent experiment, so they need to think God is gone so they can feel secure in their free will once more. Truthfully, God never took their free will. He set them up in situations, maybe even gave a bio-chemical nudge of anger (Dean) or attraction (Sam and Eileen) every now and then. But the choices were always theirs. Still, God knows they won’t see it that way. So he sets things up so that they can defeat him.

He lets them win. He wants them to win. They cannot defeat God, after all. It’s not God’s time, and Death is the only one who can claim God in the end, as the two embrace as friends and walk to the next existence. But the Winchesters need this, and so God allows it. A last gift, to the beings who have been such help, hope and inspiration to him.

With an eye for an eventual S16, 15x20 is written to be ‘an ending’ but also one that could easily be reframed as a bad dream.

For example...

Unfortunately, after Jack, suped up on a extra Grace God lent him, restores the Earth and expends all the Grace (”giving up the mantle of God so that their is no God, no plans, only Free Will”), and Dean, Sam and Jack head back to the Bunker to regroup and gather the ingredients to do the spell to rescue Castiel from the Empty, they’re jumped by monsters who are angry with how much God has fucked with them on behalf of the Winchesters. 15x20 is all a djinn dream Dean is trapped in.

16x01 is Dean waking himself up from the djinn dream, Sam and Jack escaping their own monsters, and then the end of 16x01 is Dean saying something about waking Castiel up from his own dreams in the Empty. The rest of S16 sees the boys save Castiel, reunite with Eileen, start a monster-hunting Bobby Singer/Men of Letters-esque organisation, Dean and Castiel getting together and getting married on Valentine’s Day, Jack getting to live a normal life, going to school, making friends, etc.

If their is no S16 ever (which would be criminal), then 15x20 makes no sense, unless it is plainly a recount of an old, hopeless ending written by God. However you spin it, 15x20 is not the way it seems (like owls).

All things being said, God is an antagonist, but he’s not evil. He’s an asshole, sure, but he never once worked against the Winchesters, never bet against them, never tried to erase or end them. He wanted them to win. He wanted to see the fruits of free will be love, second chances, hope, forgiveness, healing, and happiness, not just betrayal, pain, selfishness, jealousy, disappointment, and hopelessness.

Why is the ending he shows Becky ‘hopeless’? Because God is. He has spent his long existence losing his most loved family members. Amara, Lucifer. How can things end well for God, when they can’t even end well for humans? But Sam and Dean defy the script, again and again. They surprise God, defying the statistics, defying the hypotheses, throwing the experiment into disarray. Giving God hope. Sam and Dean were okay. Dean and Jack were okay. If God had a romantic love, he would find hope from Dean and Castiel being okay. But when God wrote the book he showed Becky, he was writing what he thought would happen. In the end, surely, not even Dean can be enough to hold Sam and Cas and Jack together. But in the end, as we see, as God sees, he is proven wrong and he’s happy to be wrong. He’s hopeful. And he can leave Dean, Sam, Castiel and Jack, and all the angels and all the humans, to rule the Earth and the Heavens. He doesn’t need to learn anything more from them, so he heads to the Empty, with Amara, with Lucifer, with Death (Billie or not, Death is there for God in the end), and they can all depart for a better existence of their own.

If you read all of this, thanks! I eagerly anticipate watching the remaining 10 seasons so I can come back and edit the heck outta this, but until then, if y’all have any thoughts, I’d be interested to hear them~

TLDR: God is a morally bankrupt scientist and the Winchesters are his guinea pigs, but he’s not evil and he does love his guinea pigs, even if he could really treat them nicer.

#supernatural #spn #dean winchester #sam winchester #jack kline #castiel #god #chuck #amara #lucifer #mary winchester #destiel #deancas #this is what i get for living on spn tumblr in a post s15 world while rewatching s5 and having memories ranging from hq to 8bit about s1-s11 #be kind i haven't finished my rewatch/finished the show so i probably have stuff wrong #what if god isn't evil just has no inherent moral compass because he has to teach himself everything #and he's taken to using the winchesters as his guinea pigs/life counsellors

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mittensmorgul · 2 years

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Hi Mittens, I'm listening to your podcast (still loving it) for episode 1x20 and I have to disagree with you on Cas learning free will from Sam and Dean. We learn in season 8 that he had already been manifesting free will since the dawn of time and had to be reset each time to manufactory setting by Naomie for that. He relearn free will from Sam and Dean and had finally the support he needed to fully escape and not have his free will taken away. (1/2)

In the show (not in the show universe), yes, Dean and Sam were the first to manifest free will, agreed, but, while their influence (especially Dean's) on Cas shouldn't be dismissed, Cas' own accomplishments in this regards shouldn't be reduced to "he learned free will from Sam and Dean". (2/2) Thanks again for your great work!

Hi hi!

I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast, thank you!

And heck I don't even remember what I said in the 1x20 recording now... I recorded it six months ago :'D But also, I can't imagine it was much more than an offhand comment, or at least a broad strokes overview of how I think about and understand the subject.

I could probably do just a whole episode on what Free Will is, especially within the confines of the show's universe. I'd even argue that Sam and Dean weren't the first to manifest free will, and that all humans had free will (Chuck said it was included in the kit).

Putting this under a cut because I seriously went all rambly here before I had my coffee this morning :'D

And yeah, we do know that Cas had questioned his orders from Heaven going back millennia, to the point where Naomi had to reprogram him multiple times, as she said in 8.21. I honestly do wish we'd gotten more concrete info on what that actually meant for Cas, though.

For me, at least, while Cas may have rebelled and been reprogrammed at least three times in the past that we can say for sure (I believe Naomi would feel that once was "too many," and can't say for certain that he was mind wiped over and over in the pre-series past since the show never expanded on her original statement or Cas's past experience, and Cas couldn't remember what he couldn't remember, you know?).

But also, I can't imagine I went into extensive detail on any of it in the 1.20 podcast, two seasons before Cas even shows up :'D

Regardless, the thing that enabled Cas to grasp on to his own free will and truly hold on to it, even through several more reprogramming/heaven torture sessions (4.20, and again at least twice post-purgatory in s8 when he was first rescued in 8.07 and when he was forced to kill thousands of Deans in 8.17), was his growing understanding of and empathy for humanity. Or like... his own humanity.

And absolutely, we can't dismiss it was something in Cas himself that even enabled him to learn free will, to even WANT it for himself once he learned, but it wasn't entirely unique to Cas, either. Anna had a streak of it in her that prompted her to choose humanity and fall decades before the action of the show began. Taking on her own grace again and enduring another round of programming in Heaven essentially erased it from her again. Gabriel, it has been argued, had a wide streak of this, as well, having abandoned Heaven and his own identity ostensibly because he was fed up with his family arguing and trying to kill each other. And the other angels that wanted to remain on Earth after the angel fall event got a taste of that freedom, as well. Even Hannah, who ultimately decided those weren't feelings/things she wanted for herself. She believed they were "human things," and not meant for angels.

I'd say we even have to consider angels like Uriel in a discussion of free will and angels, because he chose the side of Lucifer in the original apocalypse. Did he choose that, or was that his "role" he was made to play? We just don't know. So we have been asked by the show to consider what free will itself truly is, and Cas is the character that arc was embodied in. He was the one we watched that journey happen in. His was the lens through which we the audience saw that entire journey unfold. Which, for me, diminishes him as a character and minimizes the significance of his entire arc to say that he "invented" free will or discovered it for himself before the start of the series.

And he may have possessed it, may have even exercised it before he ever met Dean (questioning their orders when killing the first-borns in Egypt, as Naomi mentioned in 8.21), but then as far as we know he fell into line and served Heaven loyally for thousands of years. He followed every order he got after that until... Dean.

When we first met him, he was a Heaven Loyalist, following his orders like a good little angel. What was different after he met Dean? What did Dean give him that he'd never had before? Not from millennia of watching humanity?

Cas may have understood humanity from the outside, may have even believed that some of the orders he'd been given in the past were wrong (based on what he believed God would have wanted for him, though! remember how much Cas believed? Even through the apocalypse? That his entire s5 mission was to find God so he could put everything right again? To save the world and his creation? Before his belief in God and his orders to protect and watch over humanity was shattered completely.

By the time s15 rolled around, Cas had lost all faith in God. I mean that was his big struggle during s12... So 14.20 was a final disappointment, in a long line of disappointments for him, rather than the identity-shattering bomb it was for Dean. But that's a totally different meta essay for another day :'D

Back to free will and Cas...

To me, he had the potential within him all along, but the journey we watched him make through the entire series was one of his UNDERSTANDING of free will. That it doesn't-- as Dean told him in 6.20-- mean you get to do whatever you want. Every angel ~seemed~ to be able to do that, you know? Like Raphael at the beginning of s6 (which we only saw, again, in 6.20) choosing to restart the apocalypse specifically because it's what he wanted, you know? That was literally his reasoning he explained to Cas. Just because you want something doesn't mean you can just take it or make it so. It's about understanding WHY, as much as it's about understanding HOW, you know? And THAT is the part that Cas never was able to understand until he met Dean.

And boy HOWDY did he make mistakes with it! Like... that was the plot of s6. The consequences and fallout of that formed and guided his growth arc for the rest of the series as he grew in understanding of himself, humanity, and what his place was in all of it, and learning how all of his choices had CONSEQUENCES. That free will doesn't exist in a vacuum, and what the burden of having made "bad" choices could mean (or what felt like the best choice at the time, which leads us back to Chuck's hand in the narrative often pushing them into narrative corners where all their choices were terrible... which was like... the plot of the entire series lol).

More important than free will itself, to me anyway, was the knowledge and understanding to use that free will humanely (not "humanly," but honestly that, too). He grew to fully understand his own "moral compass," which yes he had since the beginning-- he objected to killing the first-born sons of Egypt, after all-- but by the end of the series he understood. It wasn't just the ability to reject orders because they "felt wrong," or because God's will was just and should be carried out, or like so much even in the Bible where half of it contradicts the other half and its left to humanity to decide for themselves what's "moral" or "just."

And heck, even his early s4 rebellion was founded in his belief that God might not actually be giving the orders, you know? It wasn't that he believed that following the orders he was given was wrong, but that whoever in Heaven was giving the orders was wrong, which is a big difference. He couldn't believe that God would WANT the apocalypse to happen, or that he would allow Heaven to fail in their mission to protect creation, not that he objected to the actual "doing what he's told" part... It was as much about his faith in God, in believing in the Grand Plan of the universe being "good" and right as it was about disobeying an order he believed was unjust.

He learned how to understand WHY he would make the choices he did. He learned to truly LOVE.

And we know, canonically, he learned that from Dean.

So for me, those concepts go hand in hand and can't be separated out, you know? Otherwise Cas doesn't have a character arc at all. He learns nothing and doesn't (and can't) grow into the complex, fascinating character we watched for 12 seasons.

Yes, he always had a seed of that within him, but we watched it grow into its fullness because of his relationship with Dean (and Sam, and even through parenting and believing in Jack, but the show explicitly told us in plain words that it was always Dean first and foremost). Cas explicitly credited his own entire growth arc of free will and love to his relationship with Dean. I don't see how I can choose to do less.

#that's what free will is #castiel winchester #here have my belated thoughts on the whole love... and love #the scheherazade of supernatural

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according-to-the-laura · 2 years

Text

StackedNatural Day 137: 4x16

StackedNatural Masterpost: [x]

March 19, 2022

4x16: On The Head of a Pin

Written by: Ben Edlund

Directed by: Mike Rohl

Original air date: March 19, 2009

Plot Synopsis:

Castiel and Uriel ask Dean to torture Alastair for information. But when Alastair breaks free, Castiel starts to believe that there is a traitor among the angels.

Features:

Angels being murdered, Cas’ guilt, the tortured becoming the torturer, Alastair reveals the First Seal, an angelic exorcism, Sam killing Alastair, Uriel’s worship of Lucifer and conversion of angels.

My Thoughts:

Okay first of all, I apologize for the length of the “Notable Lines” section below, but in my defense, every single line of this script could basically be included. I already made some cuts and we’re still here.

This is perhaps a perfect episode of this show. It’s certainly in the running for my favourite episode of all time, up there with The Man Who Would Be King. I’ll let you know at the end of Stacked, but I was restraining myself from just screaming and making incoherent noises the entire time since I was watching with other people.

All of my favourite parts of season 4 are exemplified in this episode. Dean’s Hell trauma, Alastair, Cas being a badass, Cas being on the brink of rebellion, halo imagery, Sam’s demon blood powers, Ruby being manipulative, Uriel being manipulative, God being an absent father, and so many raw lines of dialogue that I literally cannot choose a favourite.

Season 4 Cas hits SO hard for me. I love Cas all the time, I love him in the later seasons with Jack and when he’s softened and become more human, but there’s something about how hard he wants to believe in Heaven, about how much he’s already feeling about Dean, that is super tantalizing to watch. I love him begging for a leader in Anna. I love that when Dean first starts torturing Alastair, we see Cas in a wideshot with dark objects between him and the viewer, figuratively the one who’s trapped. The shot where he’s haloed by the streetlight and it’s flickering as he contemplates rebelling and following Anna is one of my favourite shots in the entire series. And thanks to season 15, we know that at this point he’s already in love with Dean, even if he doesn’t know that that’s what those feelings are. After all, he already expressed that he has doubts way back in 4x07. According to the spnwiki, this was also the episode that Cas was supposed to die in (presumably where Alastair says he wants to kill him but can only send him back to Heaven is where it would have happened), but he was so popular with the fans that they kept him instead and started giving him Anna’s plots. So this is also the first time that Cas as a character breaks out of the narrative that was prepared for him, within the narrative by expressing doubt and in a meta sense by refusing to be killed by the writer’s room. Also insane insane insane that this happened by him being impaled through the back by a hook/rebar on a wall by an enemy. I completely forgot that that had happened. Wow.

Jensen Ackles’ acting is as good as it gets in this episod, as is the actor who plays Alastair’s. The way both of their faces twitch when they’re hearing something that scares them but trying to play it off. Demon’s in this season were still incredibly scary, Alastair’s scenes still freak me out 13 years later.

@Meg3point0 and I both think that Alastair is lying about John not breaking (he’s been dead for more than 10 months in canon at this point, and why would they give up torturing him after 100 years?). What better torture than to tell Dean that not only will he never live up to his father’s legacy, but that he’s also doomed the world at the same time?

Notable Lines:

“Uriel's the funniest angel in the garrison. Ask anyone.”

“My superiors have begun to question my sympathies. [...] I was getting too close to the humans in my charge. You. They feel I've begun to express emotions. The doorways to doubt.”

“You ask me to open that door and walk through it, you will not like what walks back out.”

“You left part of yourself back in the Pit. Let's see if we can get the two of you back together again, shall we?”

“Daddy’s little girl, he broke. He broke in thirty. Oh, just not the man your daddy wanted you to be, huh, Dean?”

“I carved you into a new animal, Dean. There is no going back.” “Maybe you’re right. But it’s my turn to carve.”

“What you’re feeling? It’s called doubt.”

“And it is written that the first seal shall be broken when a righteous man sheds blood in hell. As he breaks, so shall it break.”

“For the first time, I feel…” “It gets worse.”

“Strange how a leaky pipe can undo the work of angels when we ourselves are supposed to be the agents of fate.”

“Our father? He stopped being that, if he ever was, the moment he created them. Humanity, his favourites.”

“There is no will. No wrath. No God.” “Maybe. Or maybe not. But there's still me.”

“It's not blame that falls on you, Dean, it's fate.”

“I guess I’m not the man either of our dads wanted us to be.”

Laura’s (completely subjective) Episode Rating: 10

IMdB Rating: 9.1

In Conclusion: Ben Edlund is my BEST FRIEND.

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#Stackednatural #supernatural #spn #4x16 #On The Head of a Pin #there’s so much more i want to say but I’m out of time #can we go back to calling it ‘receiving revelation’?#this directing is some of the best in the series as well

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