#SU Criticism

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

their crimes and problems with their redemption arcs under the cut!

catra:

crimes:

War crimes

Abuse of power

Corruption

Reckless endangerment

Psychological abuse

Assault

Terrorism

Attempted regicide

Attempted mass murder

Attempted world domination

Attempted cataclysm

Conspiracy

Mass destruction

Abduction & kidnapping

Unlawful imprisonment

Brainwashing

Theft

Torture

Treason

Usurpation

Coercion

Stalking

Mutilation

Aiding and abetting

Illegal use of weapons

Espionage

Crimes against peace

Crimes against Etheria

Altering reality

how was her redemption arc carried out?

she was only redeemed in the final season and her arc wasn't as drawn out as it should have been.

she never faces any consequences of her actions and is forgiven by her victims almost immediately, either after a vague apology or no apology at all.

she continues torturing and abusing people around her, especially her love interest, adora. her redemption arc doesn't mean anything since she never actually changes.

the diamonds:

crimes:

Multiple planetary conquests

Mass invasion

Mass terraformation

Attempted omnicide

Crimes against the universe

Cruel and unusual punishments

Unlawful executions

Slavery

Oppression

Propaganda

Abuse of power

Mass murder

Terrorism

Ecocide

Genocide

War crimes

Hate crimes

Corruption

Psychological abuse

Brainwashing

Unethical experimentation

Mass forced confinement

Mass destruction

Mass forced transmutations

how was their redemption arc carried out?

same as catra, their redemption was done during the final few episodes of steven universe, and it was way too sudden to be realistic.

they never face any consequences of their actions and still gets to retain their positions as cosmic rulers.

they do, however, seem to put in some effort to change, although it's not clear if this is helpful. steven also does not seem to forgive them.

lilith clawthorne:

crimes:

Malediction

Attempted murder

Child endangerment

Hostage-taking

Kidnapping

Coercion

Malefic

Treason

Cheating

Torture

Abuse

Assault

Aiding and abetting

how was her redemption arc carried out?

she only had to make one sacrifice and that was the extent of her redemption arc.

she is also forgiven too quickly by the people she had hurt.

she does change for the better, and proves to be an ally to the heroes (albeit being an underutilized character).

sasha waybright:

crimes:

Abuse of power

Psychological abuse

Attempted murder

Treason

Terrorism

Harassment

Vandalism

Theft

Usurpation

Animal cruelty

Conspiracy

Kidnapping

Incrimination

Sabotage

Child endangerment

how was her redemption arc carried out?

we only see the beginning of her redemption, the rest of it happens almost entirely off-screen. this was a lazy choice, as we never see an actual “arc”, only the beginning and the end of it.

she is almost immediately forgiven by her friends. there is some lingering suspicion in some episodes, but not enough for everything she had done prior to that season.

however, she also seems to have turned into a better person and doesn't repeat any of her past toxic behaviour.

#i dislike all of these arcs but catra definitely comes first #since she doesn't even change in the end lol #spop critical #spop salt #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop #she ra #anti spop #su criticism #su critical #su salt #su discourse #toh salt #toh criticism #toh critical #toh discourse #amphibia discourse #anti amphibia #amphibia salt #amphibia critical #anti toh #anti su #steven universe #amphibia #the owl house #toh #cartoons #poll

[gartenofbanny]

Helluva Boss and Steven Universe honestly share the problem (more specifically Steven Universe after Season 1), that being both shows set up plot points but don't even mention those plot points for a long time until certain episodes are released.

Both series waste the audience's time with pointless filler episodes without even mentioning or hinting at what happened beforehand. Though Helluva Boss is a bit worse because not only does Helluva Boss ignore the antagonists within the show, the writers instead add more antagonists within the show only for those antagonists to be ignored for pointless filler episodes.

While Steven Universe managed to actually conclude (with a pretty rushed conclusion) and only had one major threat The Diamonds, Helluva Boss just keeps adding major threats and doesn't even have a clear end goal.

What's gonna happen after every single one of Helluva Boss's antagonist gets defeated? Are all of the characters just gonna have a fucking orgy? Actually..this is Helluva Boss we're talking about I'm pretty sure Vivziepop will make that into a joke since she liked fucking Sausage Party.

But will this show even end? Less and less people are viewing the episodes (Unhappy Campers doesn't even have 10 mil views as of posting this), less and less people are buying the merch, and more and more people are leaving Spindlehorse entirely. Not to mention the new anonymous reviews about Spindlehorse that have been shared to the public.

The strike that's going on is possibly affecting the release of both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss and considering that people are starting to become more and more critical of Helluva Boss imagine what the overall public will think of Hazbin Hotel once that show releases.

A24 has done fuck all to actually advertise it and for possibly good reason, I mean they were working with Vivziepop of all people.

So at worst Helluva Boss will be cancelled or will still go on with albeit very long episode releases which doesn't go well especially with poorly written shows. Since the audience will just lose interest overtime and watch the next big thing (most likely Lackadaisy).

How did I go from comparing two poorly written shows to predicting how Helluva Boss would fall off even deeper? I don't know, it's 11 pm in Texas and I just had a thought that turned into like 4.

Anyway, goodnight everyone ❤️

#helluva boss #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #helluva boss critique #helluva critical #vivienne medrano #steven universe #steven universe critical #su critical #su criticism #hazbin hotel

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

Looking back at Steven Universe I had a lot of criticisms, but there were also a lot opinions and discourse that REALLY didn’t sit right with me—one of the biggest ones was the discourse surrounding “Storm in The Room”

I remember there being a lot of posts about how “Rose” was gaslighting Steven by asking him if he really believed she purposefully made him to run from her mistakes.

And I just. As someone who is close to their parents BUT also has had a lot of fights with them, and has had a lot of moments where I felt EXACTLY like Steven does during this scene, it was always very clear to me that this whole conversation and episode was Steven working out his complicated feelings about Rose on his own.

The “Rose” in the gif above is not real. It’s not actually Steven’s mom. That’s like. That’s the whole point.

Steven asking Room!Rose if she just created him to run away from her mistakes, and her responding by asking him if he really believes that, is Steven having an internal dialogue. He is talking things out with himself. It’s something I’ve done myself MANY times when I get in arguments or need to untangle my own feelings about something.

Steven’s fear and anxiety is that he wasn’t created to be his own person, but to fix Rose’s mistakes. However, on some level he doesn’t really believe that, he knows rationally Rose loves him and did not INTEND for him to be hurt by her past actions. But regardless of her intent, Steven was still hurt. And that hurt is real and important.

This room manifests Steven’s desires, feelings and thoughts. I always interpreted that scene as Steven coming to terms with the fact that his mother isn’t perfect and wonderful like he previously believed her to be. It’s him realizing she’s a PERSON who had flaws and did bad things.

He has to let himself feel the anger and hurt and betrayal and be upset before he can think rationally again and realize that no, he doesn’t really believe that his mom only made him to hide from her mistakes. But it’s still upsetting. It’s still hard. And as he says in this scene, he has to pick up the pieces of everything Rose left behind.

THAT is the point of this scene, and of “Storm in the Room” as a whole.

Something that I haven’t heard or seen talked about in regards to Steven Universe’s themes is the fact that, in life, you will hurt the people you love sometimes. And that you will be hurt by them in turn.

This happens multiple times through the series, and I personally think it’s done so well because the way the characters are written feel very true to life. The relationships in Steven Universe rupture and break, but the characters come together to repair their relationships again and again.

That is what a healthy relationship actually looks like—they are not devoid of conflict. Instead the people in the relationship work through conflict when it arises.

The reason the conflict in Steven Universe is so engaging to me personally is because its focus is on interpersonal relationships and how they take hard work and time.

This is something that is so important to understand, for kids and adults alike. That the people who love you become a part of you, and that they will hurt you—and while that doesn’t make them evil or malicious, that pain is still real and deserves to be acknowledged and those feelings should be treated seriously.

#steven universe #su #rose quartz #rose quartz su #su criticism #I guess??? #su critique #Steven universe critique #media literacy #? I guess???? #steven universe criticism #sorta? #funhouse convo #media criticism #media critique

[whereserpentswalk]

People who hate the ending of Steven Universe don't hate it because it didn't kill people. They hate it because it presented a worldview where being nice to oppressors and doing what they tell you is presented morally correct, and people who try to hurt oppressors are harmed in ways it's not seen as valid to harm oppressors.

(Antiships dni btw)

#steven universe #196 #my thougts #discourse #disc horse #su critical #su criticism

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Helluva boss so she try to follow footstep of a slice of life show then as the story goes on it got more serious. Steven universe cover heavy issue trauma war generational trauma and mental health

I think they both suffer from badly handling their themes and stories. It ended up being a mess and leaving people unsatisfied.

#helluva boss #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #anti-vivziepop #su critical #steven universe critical #steven unvierse criticism #su criticism #anti-steven universe #steven universe critique #su

[alohamarsblog]

'I'm going to compare the creator of a cartoon show I don't like to a Nazi collaborator because the antagonists occacionally cry.'

#lily orchard #lily peet #lily post #lilyposting #su criticism

[stevenuniversecriticisms]

Honestly, the gems should’ve stayed as mysterious magic based beings of unknown origin rather than aliens. Them being aliens kind of killed the mystery and mystical vibes to them. 😕

See the writers could have gone in one of two directions with the Gems.

If they wanted to focus on the more mundane and silly stories in Beach City then it wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Gems to be weird and mysterious. If the show was meant to just be a comedy that occasionally dipped into something a bit more serious then not delving into all of the nitty gritty details of the Gem history wouldn't matter. We'd occasionally learn something about them or an ability they had but since the scale of the story is so small it would be all you'd really need to do since the real focus is on these simple stories. It'd be more like early Adventure Time where there were definitely hints that some crazy stuff had happened in the past but the whole concept of things like the Mushroom War wasn't really that big of a deal.

The other way to handle things is to build up a big elaborate stories. Dive deep into the history of the Gems and their rebellion 5000 years ago. Show all of the nitty gritty details and develop a serious ongoing story that would go far beyond Beach City and deal with everything established about the Gems. Any bit of information we learn would be a small piece of a bigger puzzle as the story builds to bigger stories.

Unfortunately they made the ridiculous decision to pick the uncomfortable inbetween. They tried to hint at bigger stories but they didn't care about that. They wanted to make the show mostly about Beach City and the denizens of it because that's what they mostly cared about, but since they kept establishing major things about the Gems and their history and never elaborating on that it hung around their necks like an albatross. One of the most infamous examples is how Peridot establishes that the Cluster could destroy the earth real soon but then we had a bunch of filler episodes. It's a baffling decision and showed how little direction the show had and how incompetent Rebecca Sugar was at leading the show.

The reason many people, myself included, got so frustrated at the show is because they clearly set up major stories then didn't actually want to do any of them. It was only after years of fans criticizing them that they actually made a half baked attempt to even try to go into the big stuff. But with how poorly that went it's clear they had no plans to actually deal with it. The Diamonds being redeemed out of nowhere reeks of "We really don't want to actually deal with the tyrannical genocidal dictators we set up" so they gave a rushed conclusion that was easier for them to write. But this was a problem of their own invention. Just pick one path and stick with it. You want silly stories with wacky non human characters? Just do that. You want a serious story spanning thousands of years dealing with complex intergalactic politics of an alien race? Then do that. Don't pick the worst option and try to do both but never committing properly to either.

#SU Critical #steven universe critical #su criticism

[emma-o-yt]

The Diamond Authority is not a metaphor for abusive family.

I don't understand why Steven Universe fans are so pretentious, do they think a basic figure of speech makes Steven Universe deep or something? So metaphors are a comparison of two separate things or concepts by calling one thing another, example: "She was a lion, roaring at the crowd". The woman's shouts at the crowd are compared to the roars of a lion in order to exaggerate, create interesting prose and imagery and also give depth to her action.

SU fans argue that the Diamonds are just a metaphor for abusive family. But, that's not what a metaphor is since they quite literally are just an abusive family. They aren't exactly like a human family but they are the gem equivalent.

But what about them being a fascist dictatorship? That's not a "metaphor" for abusive parents (and it would be a terrible one anyways). Remember, the other gems are not treated as family but as subjects, so they are automatically left out. They're like Ozai, abusive parents and dictators.

The "abusive family" thing isn't even a thing until like season 5. Before that, they are the manifestation of society's ills (eugenics, homophobia, genocide), and the impact they have is mostly on the other gems, not Steven. They are two separate thing (and neither are done well https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/1aupslu/steven_universe_the_victim_blaming_of_rose/).

Also, Steven Universe has the racist relative already in the form of Andy Demayo, the fact that they addressed this archetype already leads me to believe the Diamonds are more than that.

You can't complain about "media literacy" when you don't have any yourself. It's a kids' show for fuck's sake.

Side note: So glad Encanto and Turning Red came out and blew SU out of the water with their stories on abusive family and interpersonal relationships.

#steven universe critical #steven universe criticism #su critical #su criticism #steven universe #rebecca sugar #the diamond authority #media criticism #media literacy #metaphor

[djsherriff-responses]

Instead of making insensitive Nazi jokes about a Jewish person's work regarding how Steven Universe treats redemption/forgiveness, we should've instead talked about the late stage capitalist hellscape the show exists in where it's an example of people (Steven) wanting to do good and make a difference but just unable to actually have the mental strength to both dismantle the corrupt system in place and live with the consequences of that , of having to be responsible of ensuring a better system is put in place. Both the ending of Steven Universe and Steven Universe future is that some people become too mentally exhausted and instead try to compromise with the system in place to try fixing themselves

But I don't think anyone's ready for that discussion

#ask me #su critical #su criticism #I still think the diamonds and the way the show handled some stuff was bad #But it makes a lot more sense if you look at Steven and his relationship with the diamonds through the current political landscape #Instead of using Hitler as a gotcha about how kids should murder their problems #Steven's family situation is far more similar to the British royal family and USA presidents than anything else #I think Sugar wanted a show about kindness but it unintentionally showed how awful late stage capitalism and it's system are #And I think it made people feel uncomfortable with how they'd behave similarly in Steven's position #I haven't engaged with the show after season 3/4 besides spoilers so my criticism is flawed obviously #But wanted to throw my two cents here #Tw Nazis #tw anti semitism #Tw Hitler

[raviosprovidence]

at this point in 2023 anyone who watches steven universe and is like "omg the show is so good and so queer and so perfect!!! what were those filthy crits talking about this is just a cute children's show!!!" are either A. white as fuck, and B. forget the massive amounts of people of color and jewish people calling out the racism and antisemitism the show (willingly or not) perpetuated

(BEFORE ANYONE COMMENTS I AM JEWISH)

#steven universe #su #su criticism #tagging just so people who wanna filter it out can #i was a massive lurker on tumblr and i specifically remember this #some of y'all need to get fucking real #it was a mid cartoon with semi progressive elements it's not the end all be all

[heritageposts]

hewwo all my sweeties!! 💖✨so i just started watching this really cute cartoon called steven universe, but i saw someone here say there's some really icky problematic stuff in it?? just hoping someone could help educate me thanks <3 uwu

#trying to get better and educate myself but it's hard >_< #*reloads gun* #su critical

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

if you watched steven universe, i'd like to know your thoughts on lapis? ive seen some people say catra is written better than her

i have watched steven universe and i didn't like lapis tbh. i think both lapis and catra are not very different when it comes to character development. however, as far as i remember, apart from trying to drown steven and connie that one time, lapis didn't do anything too heinous. her relationships with jasper and peridot were pretty messed up, which is why i'm glad they didn't make either of those ships canon.

jasper's and lapis's relationship/fusion was supposed to be toxic so it's not really a problematic thing, although i do think they could have addressed the fact that lapis also contributed to the toxicity, rather than painting her as the victim. i do think she owed peridot an apology, she didn't deserve that instant forgiveness from peridot.

anyway, i think the main difference here is that lapis wasn't the main villain like catra was (because, let's be real, catra was the main villain of s1-4, not hordak). she was pretty bad but she wasn't as coddled by the writers as catra was. steven universe was generally bad at redeeming antagonists (with the exception of peridot) so lapis just feels like another example of that. she was not a war criminal and didn't commit atrocity after atrocity like catra did, and she didn't get a happily ever after with her victims. she stayed friends with peridot and didn't seem to repeat any of her toxic habits afterwards, so i'm glad they left it at that. i feel like her redemption was just 1% better than catra's.

#spop critical #spop #spop discourse #spop salt #spop criticism #she ra #anti catra #su critical #su discourse #su criticism #su salt #su #steven universe #i do really really like lapis' character design though #especially her first appearance #it was so aesthetic #honestly when i first watched su i didnt think any character could be worse than lapis or the diamonds #but here we are

[gartenofbanny]

I think this video from Crowne Prince who is a professional animator, pointing and explaining the animation mistakes in High Guardian Spice will help you understand why Helluva Boss has so many inconsistencies with characters markings and scaling.

Yes, the artists are responsible for their mistakes but it usually because of actions out of their control. Either they're not being paid enough to care, production is being rushed so the artists can't properly take their time and re-review clips, there is a lack of communication between the different animation departments and so on. Also the Viv not having proper characters reference sheets and line ups for the animators claims.

I personally think these claims are true because the art style changes throughout Helluva Boss and the Hazbin Hotel's pilot are very obvious, it's giving Steven Universe.

Not too long ago, I took a look at a few of the reference sheets that Viv made and..

Is Robo-Fizz supposed to pose from every angle? I'm not an artist or anything but shouldn't reference sheets have the character in like one neutral position so that the animators would know every part of what they're animating? Not to mention the jester hat positions are angled weirdly.

But yeah I do agree with that video and all of those points pretty much line up with what the former SH Employees said about SH Toons. Low pay, complicated deadlines, and the management sucks there so I wouldn't be surprised if the animators just straight up don't care anymore.

At least Steven Universe was mainly consistent. I believe there were like different animation styles for certain episodes. Some of them looked good while others looked weird, but one of the main problems was how inconsistent the height in Steven Universe was but then again some of them were also pretty hilarious like this one

However I do agree with the video and you and I believe Vivziepop is really the one to blame for all of these errors because there are indie shows that take their time with the cartoon they're making which results in very low to sometimes no animation errors. Like Metal Family

#helluva boss #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #helluva boss critique #helluva critical #vivienne medrano #hazbin hotel #spindlehorse #spindlehorse toons #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critical #steven universe #su criticism #su critical

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Still Salty About the Flanderization of Steven

Many SU fans have had to see these memes and are probably tired of them. I really hate the way people who have never even watched the show and probably just LO’s video flanderize Steven into a bumbling wimp or take scenes like him crying about wanting to be friends with Connie or trying to talk down Spinel out of context. People hate him for not killing his enemies on sight and act as if all he does is talk no jitsu. People act as if he’d die trying to redeem Big Jack Horner from Puss in Boots even though he’s met villains like Jack with Aquamarine and Eyeball and not only did he kick their asses but accepted that they were beyond help. Steven prefers to talk over fighting but isn’t stupid and knows when he has to get serious. Even during his “I can make a change” song that’s twisted out of context, he was still fighting defensively against Spinel. He just wasn’t fighting to kill. As for the meme above, did the creator watch Alien Force? The way Ben handled the Dragon, Reiny and the Highbreed would be pretty similar to how Steven would. The idealistic hero who teaches violence isn’t always the answer has already been done so why does Steven get the most hate for it?

I reblogged a post about this but I really am tired of how TOH is propped up as the anti SU when Dana is friends with Rebecca and praised the groundbreaking work Rupphire did. The Owl House crew doesn’t hate SU and wasn’t doing a “take that” by killing its villain or claiming not everyone can be talked down with a hug. They’re two different shows with different stories and themes. Steven would also know that some like Belos can’t be redeemed and he didn’t actually redeem the diamonds. He didn’t like them and acts uncomfortable around them in Future but he needed them to cure the corrupted gems. The point of the diamonds as well as Andy was not that you have to accept bigoted family members but a wish fulfillment where queer people could get their families to accept them. I saw this on Reddit but I think Steven gets so much hate because he teaches the idea that retributive violence isn’t always the solution and because he got a good life with a loving family, girlfriend and adoration of everyone without being a self centered sexist asshole. Internet Dudebros hate the character who showed healthy emotion, treats Connie as an equal and taught stuff like acceptance, boundaries and kindness, as they hate the idea that they don’t have any of that because of how bigoted, self absorbed or toxic they are.

#steven universe future #steven universe #steven universe the movie #su spinel #ben 10 #the owl house #anti su critical

[sjbattleangel]

The Virgin Lily Orchard:

Sides with abusers

Lies about having Indigenous heritage

Is horrifically abusive to friends and family

Always sides with corporations

Writes awful revenge-fics out of spite

Fetishizes black women

Dismisses an entire cultural animation medium (anime) as "spankbait for perverts"

Wrote the worst writing advice ever

Has a pathetic vendetta against Rebecca Sugar for simply existing

Sends death threats to creators

Throws marginalized creators under the bus for not being "woke" enough

Lied about being a "highly sought-after writer" solely to spite Rebecca Sugar, ND Stevenson, Darron Nefcy, Dana Terrace and her sister

Hates Asians

Hates Jews

Holds nothing but contempt for animation

Wants all of animation to be nothing but slice-of-life romantic comedies

Wants the Hays code back

The Chad Rebecca Sugar:

One of the nicest people working in the industry

Has fought hard for diversity and representation in animation

Is incredibly talented

Is friends with Alex Hirsch (Gravity Falls), Matt Braly (Amphibia) and many others

Paved the way for more diverse creators

Has won multiple awards

Wrote and sang songs for Adventure Time

A non-binary, bisexual Jewish woman whose background and experiences influence her work

Created one of the most groundbreaking, inclusive, LGBTQ+ friendly shows of all time

Fought against higher-ups when they tried to censor the queerness of her work

Helped normalize discussions of kids' mental health

An uplifting inspiration to a generation of queer kids growing up

Influenced by both western animation and anime

Married to Ian Jones Quartey

#lily orchard #rebecca sugar #steven universe #lily orchard is a hack #anti-lily orchard #screw lily orchard #lily orchard critical #lily peet #cartoons #animated series #animation #virgin and chad #virgin vs chad #memes #meme #funny #jokes #anti-su critical #su critical critical #lily orchard is toxic

[lainalit]

artist: mftfernandez

#I am begging sarah to let this man go #why is tamlin out here always having uninvited guests in his court #have they not something better to do than disrespect a su!cidal man in his house #acotar critical #sjm critical #anti sjm #anti acotar #anti rhysand #anti ic #anti inner circle #pro tamlin #acotar memes