#funhouse convo

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

The Decay of Complex Characters and Character Development in Helluva Boss (Stolas and Octavia’s Relationship: Part 2 of 2)

Part 1 here

I felt I had to make separate part just for “Seeing Stars” because my other post was getting way too long, and I wanted to really focus on the treatment of Stolas and Octavia’s by the writers.

Please know that this is JUST my opinion and not a personal attack on HB’s writers or creators. I’m talking and venting a bit about my personal frustrations with the series regarding what I perceive as being MAJOR plot holes and inconsistencies in the show’s writing.

As of right now—and I do want to acknowledge this could change, but as of right now—it largely seems like any character development Stolas may have gone through after “Loo Loo Land” has been completely tossed out the window.

I personally believe that the writers of Helluva Boss think that they are writing Stolas to be more complex, but he has yet to have to actually be held accountable for his actions, and for breaking his promises to Octavia.

And the way the writers present him has really come to bother me. So I wanted to talk more about it, and about how Stolas cannot become a well-written, complex, and engaging character until the writers let him actually be imperfect and complex.

To talk about this more in depth, I gotta go over the second episode that features Octavia, Season 2, Episode 2 of Helluva Boss—“Seeing Stars”

(TLDR at the end)

To start, “Seeing Stars” is narratively very similar to “Loo Loo Land”. By “very similar” I mean that it’s almost the exact same plot, but frustratingly more clunky. Here is an extremely short summary:

The main crux of the conflict in “Seeing Stars” is that Stolas forgot about a promise he made to Octavia to go see a meteor shower, and ends up neglecting her.

Specifically, he forgets because he is too busy yelling at Stella over the phone due to their contentious divorce. Octavia feels let down by her father again, and runs away to the human realm to see the meteor shower on her own.

Stolas and I.M.P. panic and go after her. Eventually Loona finds her and gives her a speech that essentially boils down to: “everyone’s got hardships and problems but Dads ESPECIALLY have problems. Your Dad is trying really hard right now. So that should count for something right?”

And that comforts Octavia in the moment. Octavia and Stolas reunite, he asks her why she ran away, and she tells him she was trying to see the meteor shower he promised to take her to. Stolas is horrified that he’d forgotten, starts to apologize, but Octavia cuts him off and tells him “it’s okay”, forgiving him.

I rewatched “Seeing Stars” before making this post to make sure I hadn’t misremembered any crucial plot points.

I thought I remembered that, at the very end of the episode, Stolas apologized to Octavia for breaking his promise and then she told him it was okay.

It turns out I had misremembered things, because the writers literally kept Stolas from saying sorry.

This leads to the main criticism I have of Stolas as a character, especially from a writing standpoint. The narrative does not allow for Stolas to ever truly be in the wrong, or for anyone, including Stolas, to fully acknowledge that he is in the wrong.

And I know that it’s easy to go “BUT LOOK! Octavia says “I know, Dad”! She KNOWS that Stolas is sorry.

That’s fair, but for me personally, I think an EARNEST and verbal apology is needed here to show that Stolas has grown.

I’m very lucky in that I have a good relationship with my parents, but that doesn’t mean we never fought or they never said or did things that hurt me.

I distinctly remember a time when my Mom was apologizing to me for something she did, I said “it’s okay” and she immediately replied “No, it’s not okay. I shouldn’t have done that. I’m sorry, and I hope you can forgive me”.

That really changed my perspective on conflict. I think a lot of people, including myself until then, consider “it’s okay” to be a form of saying “I forgive you”. And I’m not trying to police like…basic language and substitute words. But I DO strongly believe in taking responsibility for when you hurt someone.

In all honesty, I think this scene actually could have worked for Stolas’ character development if he had actually acknowledged that, “No, it’s not. It’s not okay that I broke my promise to you. I’m sorry, and I hope you can forgive me, but if you can’t right now, I understand.”

THAT, to me, shows character development. That would’ve shown that Stolas is, at the very least, trying to make an actual effort to change for the sake of Octavia.

Instead, though, SHE apologizes Stolas for running away to try and see the meteor shower that HE promised to take her to. And the writers refuse to even let Stolas say he’s sorry.

Let Stolas say he’s sorry, writers! Let Stolas be in the wrong!!! I promise it won’t make people hate his character!

I mean, jfc, just look at the fandom around Hazbin’s Valentino. That guy could not be more evil if he tried and a lot of fans can’t seem to get enough of him.

My other issue with the treatment of Octavia in this episode, SPECIFICALLY the speech that Loona gives Octavia near the end.

Because. Oof. There’s a lot to unpack. Firstly:

Maybe it’s just me, but I find the way the writers have Loona frame this situation as being really really weird. To be clear, I don’t think it starts off too badly. Everyone DOES have issues, and that can affect the way they act and treat others and make mistakes.

That said, dads are not inherently more messed up or dealing with more difficulties than anyone else.

Dads have issues the same as any other person, but they don’t get special privileges or passes because they’re dads. They’re responsible for themselves like every other person with issues and difficulties, and they’re still responsible for themselves and their mistakes.

It’s especially frustrating because the writers are using Stolas’ “issues” as a crutch to excuse their bad behavior. This happens a lot with writers trying to excuse or justify their character’s actions. The “issues” can be anything from a difficult childhood, relationship troubles or divorce, a traumatic experience, etc. but these things should never be used as a way to excuse a character’s every mistake and flaw.

Effective writing will use a character’s history to explain the reasons a character acts or behaves a certain way, not excuse that behavior. This leads to characters that the audience can become more invested in, and can form different opinions or interpretations about.

A really great example of this is Bojack Horseman, whose terrible upbringing and abuse definitely garner audience sympathy, but the writers never use this to as a justification for the Bojack’s behaviors. Bojack continually makes really terrible choices that hurt the people he cares about the most, and while we as the audience still sympathize with him to an extent, we still get frustrated with Bojack, and be disappointed by him.

The audience finally gets some catharsis from this frustration when Bojack is called out by his best friend Todd for this, after he finally breaks any remaining trust in their friendship with the following quote:

“You can’t keep doing this! You can’t keep doing shitty things, and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay! You need to be better! [Bojack apologizes and then continues to make excuses] …BoJack, stop. You are all the things that are wrong with you. It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened in your career, or when you were a kid—It's you. Alright? It's you. Fuck, man. What else is there to say?”

In my opinion, Helluva Boss’ writers seem to be determined to write the exact opposite of this sentiment.

The writers frame Loona’s speech to Octavia as a heartwarming moment—a moment where Loona helps Octavia realize that Stolas cares about her and is trying his best, so Octavia should cut him some slack.

This is, quite frankly, a BAFFLING scene because Loona’s behavior for the ENTIRE EPISODE is her assaulting and yelling at her dad. Like, she has given Blitzø absolutely NO slack before this moment, and then doesn’t give him any in the scene DIRECTLY after this, where she assaults him again while he’s in the middle of apologizing to her.

Not only is it odd to have Loona tell Octavia all of this and then not act on it herself, but the whole scene really reads as the writers trying to sweep Octavia’s very valid and real feelings of hurt over her father’s neglect under the rug.

And look. Trying to be better can be important. Trying to change and be better IS worthy of being acknowledged. But at a certain point, as Todd points out to Bojack, you have to actually be better.

In part 1, I talked about how the end of “Looloo Land” had set things up for Stolas to start being more conscientious of Octavia’s feelings and needs. He took the first step of making amends with her, of listening to her and her concerns and fears.

“Seeing Stars” was an episode that could have shown him being better. But instead. Well.

In her speech to Octavia Loona says this:

And to be fair, Loona didn’t know what hijinks Stolas and Blitzø were getting up to in the city. She probably did think Stolas was looking for her.

…Except…he kind of wasn’t…

During the search for Octavia, Blitzø gets mistaken for a famous Hollywood actor, and he and Stolas are essentially kidnapped to be in a sitcom. When this first happens, Stolas is anxious, clearly upset that there search has been further impeded:

He’s scared that Octavia could be in danger, or hurt. Stolas seemingly wants to find her as soon as possible.

Well. Once they get to the Hollywood sitcom shoot, the following scenes happen:

STOLAS WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING???? YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU DIDNT HAVE TIME FOR THIS ??? BLITZØ DIDNT EVEN WANT TO PERFORM, AND YOU MADE HIM! WHY?!?! YOU DONT OWE THESE PEOPLE ANYTHING? THE TV PRODUCER EVEN LEFT THE ROOM BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED, NO ONE WAS KEEPING YOU THERE!!!

WHY ARE YOU INVESTED IN THIS AND WORRIED ABOUT THE AUDIENCE NOT LAUGHING?!?! STOLAS YOU LITERALLY JUST SAID YOUR DAUGHTER COULD BE IN DANGER IN THE VAN, WHY ARE YOU SUDDENLY SO CONCERNED WITH MAKING BLITZØ ACT IN THIS SITCOM???? STOLAS YOU DONT KNOW WHERE YOUR FUCKING DAUGHTER IS?!?!?

I just…I’m sorry, I just think this episode is so so clunky and so poorly written. I think it may be one of the episodes with the least consistent character writing.

The scene continues, Stolas gets distracted by how attractive he finds Blitzø, and Blitzø acts in the sitcom for so long that even Stolas looks bored and out of it.

At this point in the story, he doesn’t know where his daughter is, if she’s hurt, or in danger, or even why she ran away in the first place. But instead of that taking the absolute top priority for him, he takes time to watch Blitzø make bad jokes in a wig for the whole afternoon.

Stolas isn’t even the one to get them out of the Hollywood studio, Blitzø is. Blitzø has a panic attack about the thought of Loona being taken from him during the sitcom shoot, and that’s what sparks them escaping.

The two escape the studio and meet up with Octavia and Loona, and the episode ends with Octavia apologizing for running away, and Stolas not having to apologize to her for his mistakes because Octavia already knows he’s sorry.

In Part 1, I talked about how at the end of “Loo Loo Land”, the writers set up the building blocks for Stolas’s character development in regards to his relationship with Octavia. S1 E2 of Helluva Boss ends with Stolas listening to his daughter, realizing his actions hurt her, and acting like he’s going to start putting her first.

“Seeing Stars” undoes all of that development. Which wasn’t even that much character development in the first place. Just the kicking off point for Stolas’ growth as a character.

Reviewing this episode made me realize that Stolas’ character development may have actually regressed. He doesn’t keep his promise to Octavia, he starts flirting with Blitzø when he should be looking for her, and wastes valuable time fucking around with Blitzø on a sitcom set.

And listen, I KNOW that Blitzø got Loona to look for Octavia right after he and Stolas got kidnapped by the tv producers. But after they get out of the Van, WHY does Stolas just continue to go along with it? He was so concerned and scared for Via before, wouldn’t he want to get back to looking for her as soon as possible?? And have as many people as possible working on finding her???

Blitzø doesn’t even want to go on the sitcom and for some reason Stolas makes him! The tv producer had left the room at that point too, and Stolas is a DEMON PRINCE, no one was keeping them there!

Stolas gives the reason for Blitzø needing to perform to be “so they can get back to looking for Via” but they can just do that without having to be in the sitcom?

I think the writers might have written dramatic irony into the story without meaning to? Loona tells Octavia that “[Stolas is] down there. Looking for you”, but we as the audience know that’s not true. Stolas wasn’t looking for his daughter. He was watching Blitzø star in a bad sitcom for 5 hours.

This becomes extra frustrating and gut-wrenching for me when I think about Octavia right before Loona’s speech about how “dads are special and have it extra extra bad and try extra extra hard and that’s super important, even if they fuck up and hurt you”

This scene is absolutely heartbreaking to me. This is a 17 year old girl who has been repeatedly let down by one of the people she looked up to and relied upon the most, who rightfully feels abandoned and like she no longer has a home.

Specifically the line “Why does he hate [my mum] more than he loves me?” hits extra hard.

I don’t know what it’s like to have divorced parents, but I can imagine that anyone who has may have had this exact thought. Octavia needs support more now than ever, and keeps getting let down by the adults around her, and it just breaks my heart to see this young vulnerable girl not really have anyone who acknowledges that what Stolas did was hurtful. That it wasn’t okay, and that she’s allowed to be upset about it.

The reason she exists in the story isn’t to be her own person and to have character development of her own. She exists just to be Stolas’ daughter, and to forgive him for his wrongdoings and make him seem like a “good” person because even though he has issues, he still loves her! That makes him a good dad!

And I don’t know how Octavia is broadly accepted in the HB fandom, but I’ve heard that she may not be liked very well, and I don’t understand how anyone could see this scene and think she’s annoying or terrible.

Honestly, I would NOT be as frustrated and disappointed by the writing in this episode, if the writers and the fandom at large didn’t treat this episode like it had a heartwarming and satisfying resolution. If the writers treated Stolas as a complex person who is able to make mistakes, and who still really needs to own up to his actions and take responsibility for his broken promises, I would probably like him a lot more as a complex and nuanced character.

But the way the writers frame Stolas as being in the right, or being the victim, or being fully justified in all his actions isn’t just bad writing. It’s boring. Stolas is a boring character because the writers do not allow him to be in the wrong, to be morally ambiguous or dark, or to be called out or held accountable for his mistakes.

The writers MAY somehow undo the damage they already did in “Seeing Stars”, but given the way that the writers, show creators, and fandom go out of their way to excuse any morally grey, questionable, or harmful decisions Stolas makes, I’m not going to hold my breath.

TLDR:

-Despite Octavia being hurt by Stolas again, the writers refuse to put him in any situation where he’s held accountable for his mistakes

-The writers use Stolas’ “issues” to excuse away his bad behavior. And specify that Octavia should cut Stolas some slack because he’s a dad and being a dad is extra hard I guess?

-the framing of the episode acts like Stolas did everything in his power to look for Octavia when he clearly didn’t (he was goofing off with Blitzø)

-Stolas is ultimately uninteresting and not engaging as a character because the writers go out of their way to excuse his behavior and mistakes even when he’s in the wrong.

-Stolas cannot be a complex character if he is always absolved of the consequences of his actions and is not allowed by the writers to be better (in my opinion)

Also sidebar—WHY DID HE NOT CALL OCTAVIA ON HER PHONE!?!

In the VERY first episode of HB Stolas is LITERALLY INTRODUCED TO US by calling Blitzø on his phone and watching Blitzø in the human world from hell, without the use of his Grimoire!! HE HAS THE POWER TO DO THAT!!!

I was like, maybe Octavia didn’t have her phone for a SECOND before remembering that LOONA FINDS OCTAVIA BY LOOKING AT THE PICTURES SHES POSTING TO SOCIAL MEDIA WITH HER PHONE.

Like Stolas do you not know ur own daughters phone number. AND YOURE GIVING BLITZØ A HARD TIME ABOUT NOT KNOWING MOXXIE’S?? Also when Blitzø is in danger you can pinpoint his exact location, travel to the human world without the grimoire terrify and reveal your existence to MULTIPLE humans with absolute disregard for being discovered, but when your OWN DAUGHTER is missing and you have NO idea why or if she’s in danger, suddenly you have time to run around LA for a day getting into shenanigans???? She’s your DAUGHTER. No wonder she doesn’t think you care about her because I sure as hell don’t after that episode. Lord.

#helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #stolas critical #funhouse convo #media criticism #media critique #media conversation #octavia goetia #Octavia I’m so sorry sweetie I’m so sorry those ugly ass bitches would ever do that to you!!!

[murky-tannin]

Reading Cellbits doc. It's a literal funhouse mirror of shit I dodged by pure incredible luck (others being nearby when I was 9, overhearing bathroom stall convo right before forcing myself into something with my ex, etc. pure chance stuff.) and It's so tough. It's just tough.

#cellbit situation #<i think thats the tag? for anyone looking to filter out

[4lph4kidz]

(I have no idea if this sent twice, my laptop did a weird in the middle of it. Apologies if so)

Man, I feel like I get gaslit about Dirk every day. My main take is that Dirk's Big Two Most Memorable Conversations are the AR and Dave ones in LOTAK, and if you're thinking about those two conversations in a vacuum and nothing else with Dirk yeah, you're probably gonna go AR=Dirk=Bro and Dirk admits it, therefore Dirk=Ult!Dirk, but like. lol

and that the comic ENDS on the dave convo, and dirk never gets meaningfully challenged on his beliefs. jake is also crying in the corner that he's the worst and can't be trusted in relationships ever and should probably just go live in the mountains like a hermit forever, do i believe him? are we taking these as accurate self assessments, really? but because that's the tone the comic ends on........ that does feel like the end of their "arcs", those realisations. and that's what you tend to remember if you aren't trying to psychoanalyse those brats.

dirk and his splinters are like... staring at yourself in funhouse mirrors. that's you in the mirror, but it's not an accurate reflection. you still have that giant zit on your face though. it's not that big, but you might want to do something about it.

my favourite kanaya is bewildered kanaya on her first date with drunk rose. she was so gentle....

i lost my original response to this one so i think we're even anon, lmao

basically - i do agree with you, broadly speaking, about what kind of impression those scenes might leave people with, but that's not what i came away with at all. like, i like dirk's ending because it IS one of the better conclusions we get in homestuck, even if i think he's being way too harsh on himself ('i was a completely toxic element in his life from day one' is just objectively not a true statement no matter where you fall on the dirk/jake faildating debacle) i still take his fears about his worse capabilities seriously and really like the way those conversations go, because i think dirk being self-critical is pretty important to his arc and growth, despite his overly negative perspective on himself.

maybe it's cause i don't think he goes unchallenged after all - dave's presence in the scene has a lot to do with why i think it's ultimately a positive thing? yes dirk's fears about being a bad person are actually validated when he finds out yeah turns out he really COULD be that bad, but the person who was hurt most by all that is still very firm about not seeing them as the same person after all, and not holding him responsible for any of it. dave is able to find comfort in dirk being there, and dirk feels that maybe him hurting and being bad for people isn't an inevitability after all.

that said he is still overestimating himself/feeling like he needs to take responsibility for things he really shouldn't, and i fear that difficulty in changing that mindset may be the prince of heart's curse, but still. it's something that gets explored in enough depth for me to be more than happy with it as it is.

this is not the case with jake, who is not even slightly challenged on the conclusions he comes to... it's a shame but homestuck just did not have time during its concluding arcs to take his character seriously and attempt to resolve everything going on with him (in a self aware way, the comic pokes fun at itself for dropping the ball with him) and essentially reverts to the same old tactics/routine in order to press forward, while internalising all that negative shit about himself. that IS pointless, unconstructive self-hatred which is not meaningfully challenged. i still maintain jade and jake getting to talk about stuff wouldn't have wrapped up EVERYTHING, but it would have have provided a good deal better resolution for BOTH characters imo.

anyway either jake gets his resolution offscreen during act 7/the credits, or he gets no resolution at all... which i think is the version i prefer, weirdly. he's a character who has a really hard time facing up to problems so i do like the idea that it is going to take him a long time to work through all that stuff. ideally it happens when he's not in a story that (even jokingly) hates him.

and kanayaaaa TT_TT she is very sweet and gentle but that scene still kinda upsets me tbh. she's such a loving, romantic character who is so earnest about trying to be there for people and to see that go wrong in a way she can't really do anything about is so sad to me

#ask #anon #babbling #the dave and dirk convo was good where's the jade and jake equivalent please i would kill for that

[chekerbored]

chatgpt writes a convo between William Afton and the south park boys

(Scene: The kids from South Park find themselves in an abandoned warehouse. Suddenly, William Afton emerges from the shadows, his purple attire giving off some serious "creepy uncle" vibes.)

William Afton: Well, well, well, what do we have here? A bunch of pint-sized troublemakers. You lost, or did you come here lookin' for some dark and mysterious shenanigans?

Stan: Whoa, dude, what's with the whole "villain in a purple suit" thing? Are you trying to be some sort of twisted Willy Wonka?

William Afton: (Chuckles) Willy Wonka wishes he could pull off purple like I do. But let me assure you, my young friends, I'm not here to offer golden tickets. I'm here to offer you something far more...soul-crushing.

Kyle: Seriously, man, we don't need any of your creepy animatronics. We deal with enough messed-up shit in South Park already.

William Afton: Oh, I'm well aware of the twisted wonders of South Park. But trust me, my animatronics will make those little turds from Imaginationland look like fuzzy teddy bears.

Cartman: Are you trying to scare us, Purple Dude? 'Cause you're just coming off as the weird uncle at a family reunion.

William Afton: Ah, the mysterious uncle trope. I see what you did there. But let me tell you something, boys. Family reunions have nothing on the horror show I've got planned for you.

Kenny: (Muffled) This is one fucked-up family reunion...

Stan: Look, Mr. Purple Guy, we don't want any part of your twisted carnival ride. We just want to get back to our fart jokes and school shenanigans.

William Afton: Fart jokes, huh? Well, I guess you boys are already well-equipped to handle the stench of fear. But remember, even in the world of farts and giggles, darkness lurks just around the corner.

(William Afton fades back into the shadows, leaving the kids feeling a mix of unease and laughter.)

Ω Well, well, well, what do we have here, you little South Park troublemakers? Looks like you stumbled into my secret lair, where all the naughty fun happens. But don't worry, kiddos, Uncle William's got a special surprise just for you.

Stan: Whoa, dude, you're giving off some serious "creepy uncle" vibes. Are you the reason they invented "stranger danger"?

William Afton: (Chuckles darkly) Stranger danger? Please, I'm more like the reason they invented "uncle jokes." But trust me, my little friends, I've got something far more twisted in store for you than just bad puns.

Kyle: Seriously, man, we're not interested in your messed-up toys and games. We've dealt with enough bizarre shit in South Park.

William Afton: Oh, I'm well aware of the bizarre wonders of South Park. But my animatronics will make your weird town feel like a preschool playground. Prepare for a journey through the darkest corners of humor, my young jesters.

Cartman: Yeah, whatever, Purple Perv! We're not falling for your sick tricks. We've faced far scarier stuff, like ginger kids and a certain "screw you guys" attitude.

Kenny: (Muffled) Fuckin' creep show...

Stan: Look, Mr. Purple Guy, we don't have time for your messed-up funhouse. We've got our own twisted adventures back in South Park, and they don't involve killer robots.

William Afton: Twisted adventures, huh? Well, it seems you boys are already well-versed in the art of twistedness. But remember, the darkness can be one hell of a punchline, and I'm the master of comedic nightmares.

(William Afton disappears back into the shadows, leaving the kids with a mix of unease, confusion, and awkward laughter.)

#fnaf #fnaf memes #William afton #south park #south park memes

[vermillioncrown]

All the mirror convos have P!nk's Funhouse stuck in my head now.

given any artist, my listening of them will have quite a few gaps. i haven't actually heard this song before. it's quite on the nose

i've responded to another comment that britney spears - circus comes to my mind if we consider the clowns only, not the mirrors

(also, no way in hell si!kagami hasn't thought 'it's britney, bitch' before a match)

#inquiry #Anonymous #on bil #the mirror/reflection-related songs that come to my mind are... #uh. too angsty? or too serious? or too slutty ig

[lycanthropicture]

re stem vs humanities bloggers. being a stem person all day long and then logging on this site is like. i see peoples posts and i am just like wow okay my brain does not work that way. thank you so much for sharing. it’s like processing concepts reflected in a funhouse mirror

i love this convo that has started. catching glimpses of the other side. this is my funhouse mirror actually so thank YOU for sharing.

#i was a cs major for 2.5 seconds and my brain does not work THAT way so. #shaking hands with u from the other side #phin.ask #butchmaryread

[antigonewinchester]

thoughts around 7x13, another ep i’ve seen discourse about! the counterpoint to 7x03 and sam’s amy pond story, with dean being unable to take down the monster & sam stepping in to do so instead.

i was expecting the emma situation to be more ambiguous, given how i’ve seen discussions go, but the show’s framing felt fairly neat. there’s some tension in emma’s “growing up” scenes (not wanting to eat the piece of meat, wincing at the brand) and her talk with dean before she turns on him basically pushes every button he has. emma’s brief life is a funhouse mirror reflection of dean’s: she was raised as a child solider & forced into it by her mom, she says that she was ‘tortured’ when she shows dean the brand, and now she wants out. however, once she does pull a knife on dean, it’s acted & framed like she was lying during her previous convo & she’d always planned on killing him. also interesting & manipulative is her putting the blame on dean (you fathered me and now one of us has to kill the other) instead of her mom, who bares much more responsibility for emma’s situation than dean. is it a little messed up that sam just shoots her instead of trying to talk her down? sure, but in sam’s view, she was going to kill dean & dean wasn’t able to kill her so he had to step in, and i get why sam read the situation that way.

what felt more messed up but also v interesting character-wise was sam saying “she wasn’t really your daughter” to dean in the car. because as dean says, yes, she was, she was also just a father-killing monster, too. we’ve got sam trying to soften the blow by denying emma was dean’s daughter, dean pretending like he wasn’t going to let emma go, i like the complexities here.

both amy and emma feel most intriguing as foils for sam and dean. amy who was killing people but for a greater good, if that doesn’t remind sam of where he was & what he did in s4 (in addition to having known her as a kid); emma, trained to be a solider & a killer who didn’t even realize she had a choice to leave, paralleling how dean was raised & his ambivalent feelings around hunting this season. plus everything with dean & being a parent from s6. (perhaps the other thing to note is that the arc around amy takes up 4 eps, while the situation with emma only gets 1.)

#the emma ep at least gets some points for not being so over the top manipulative like the amy ep even if there were some issues #spn rewatch #dean #sam #sam & dean

[arcadequeerz]

Blake & Blaise Crawford

Twin Brothers

Lotta Rambling under cut, Copy n Pasted from convo w friend I shared in discord server. 

Me: So u know how I said like, Scribbles whole creation had to do with Janus killing someone right?

I was thinkin about like...Who Janus kills, I'm still not sure how exactly this death is then later used to create Scribbles. But I'm thinking like....What if who he kills is his Brother.

My Friend Funhouse: JANUS HAS A BROTHER?

Me: Like he has a brother, his brother who is his families golden child, achieved so much- done so much with his life, their parents were so proud of him gave him everything but gave Janus Nothing- N it creates this deep deep hatred for him in Janus' heart. One that he hides well- Pretends he loves his brother, who obviously cares about him. His brother has done nothing but try their best to provide for him- do what they can to make sure Janus knows he cares.

But deep inside: Janus Hates him. Hates everything about him- he hates his smile- his loud laugh- the way he looks at him-he Knows he judges him- thinks he's a failure just like their parents did, convinces himself of this- Simmers in this rage n Hatred at his brother convinced that they don't Care when in reality they really do.

My Friend Funhouse: JANUS !!!!! JANUS . JANUS NO

Me: His brother sees him going down a dark- Dangerous path, and is worried about him. He wants what's best for him, wants him happy- safe- And it all comes to a head one day when they invite Janus to their house for dinner.

Janus goes over just to get it over with- Just so he shuts up, but his brother starts to bring up that he's worried about him- He sees what he's doing. It scares him, he's worried about him- And Janus gets pissed. He lashes out- tells him he doesn't need his Pity- His worry- he doesn't need ANYTHING from him. His brother tries desperately to tell him he just wants what's best for him- that he just wants to help him-

But Janus isn't hearing it- stands, and starts to leave- Only for their brother to get in their way. Stood in front of the door, tears in his eyes- begging him to just stay: to talk. His brother has always been so emotional- always cried. Their parents babied him- N seeing those tears only makes Janus see Red.

Janus and his Brother are Twins. Their parents gave them similar names- His brother and him were always given the same things, they always matched. The two existed as a shadow of one another. And in that moment one of them dies.

Janus in a fit of rage- Stabs his brother. Repeatedly, again and again. He lets out all that rage- Keeps going long after they'd stopped moving, stopped begging- and crying- like they cry baby they were. He feels nothing. It's surreal to see his brother, his Twin, dead on the ground. Lifeless, because of just how much they look alike.

I am thinking like. In this moment, is when the god actually Reaches Out to Janus. It rips through the fabric of reality, ripping a gash across the space in front of him and pulls itself out to greet the human. Janus can't make sense of it, how its features shift and change so erratically. He watches as it moves close to his dead brothers corpse- Breathes in deep, taking in the scent of blood before it focuses far too many, shifting- changing eyes on him, and smiles with seemingly endless teeth at him.

This is like- The moment the god makes its pact with him too, Gives him its blessing, and changes him, killing him in the process, so technically: Both brothers die that day.

Who Janus was before dies and he is 'Reborn' and takes up a new name and new identity. And because of this...He feels in a way he owes the same 'courtesy' to his Brother.

And that is when He takes his brother, what's left of him- Uses him to somehow CREATE- Scribbles, in that damned tv in that house.

Still not sure on like...the specifics OF this- but Yeah.

Janus so convinced His brother doesn't care about him, when he really does- Maybe he couldn't be convinced he'd care: because he didn't say it enough- Especially when they were Kids. Their parents treated them both so differently- and it affected their relationship for sure. It couldn't really be blamed on either of them(Janus n his Brother), but Janus still blamed him for it, n for everything.

Thinking v hard about if like- Scribbles at all has Memories, from Janus' brother or not, Or he doesn't n he's just created out of the bits and pieces that was left of Janus' brother- Fragmented parts and things stitched together to make whatever he is. Shattered n Reshaped n twisted into whatever the hell he is.

My Friend Funhouse: ough i like the second tbh. i like them both but like. or. or maybe both disjointed hazy memories that scribbles doesnt know what to make of, but maybe they help him find his creator.  it'd also help the idea that like scribbles thinks his creator would be Good, janus' brother probably had that same opinion of janus. positive feelings carried over.

Me: OUHH OH YES,,,, He has very- Disjointed/messy memories- very hasy, split second glimpses of a life he never lived- He has these feelings, thoughts of things that don't quite make sense to him n its sort of like..Left over from Janus' brother.

Am thinking he always has this like...Sense of wrongness w himself. Others can feel it- there's something wrong- off putting- Strange- about him and it confuses, and frustrates him- n is just a bit distressing to himself sometimes.

He never knows how to explain it either- put these Feelings n thoughts into words, N that rly adds to the frustration n distress of it.

He doesn't know what's Wrong with him- N it Scares him- n makes him so Mad sometimes.

I'm just. Imagining Scribbles pushed to near frustrated tears as he looks at himself in a mirror- asking himself: What's wrong with him- and Not knowing what it is, or What's wrong but there's SOMETHING there's something so wrong and it makes his chest hurt it makes him want to scream.

HE'S DEALING WITH SO MUCH. HIS EXISTENCE IS JUST. it's so complicated- its Confusing- He feels wrong- its wrong and bad- and he doesn't know why but it makes him frustrated n scared n so mad.

When its bad, Gale asks him what's wrong- and Scribbles can't tell him what it is- Can't explain to him that he feels wrong, out of place- just wrong- So Gale simply holds him and tells him it'll be okay, n stays with him until the feeling passes or dies down enough that its bearable.

My Friend Funhouse: WAH oh god. imagine. imagine if scribbles finds out imagine if he finds out that the reason he feels so Weird/Wrong is because he has the memories of his creators murdered twin brother that was used to create him

Me: UEAH. YEAH. sorry i didn't reply i fell asleep.

but fuck- I am thinking that whrn Scribbles finds Janus, w the others- that Janus is just. Very Cruel to him. He finds it pretty interesting that something he created found its way back to him. Scribbles asks him point blank, why he made him- N i think whatever the exact answer he Gives Scribbles it just. It breaks him.

He tells Scribbles how he was created. Laughs at how distraught- and upset it makes him- the fear, confusion- and the Anger. It all makes sense. The wrong feeling- It's wrong because deep down: He is made from someone else. Parts of something- someone else.

And it fucking Hurts Him. He has all these confusing thoughts, and emotions that are whirling around in his head and he's so hurt and confused- His brot-His creator- Killed hi-Killed Them- someone-

It makes him feel more wrong. It makes him confused- He doesn't know who he is anymore. He knows what he's made out of- but He wishes he didn't. He isn't the same after this. It has: a lasting effect on him.

am not sure the specifics on like. What It is- or what Janus tells him exactly, but it hurts him deeply.

Also it absolutely makes like- Arthur, and Ripley just HATE Janus. Arthur about beats him within a inch of his life- Has to be dragged away from Janus by his partner before he can do anything worse. And Gale n the others just..

Try and Support Scribbles and make sure he knows he's loved- He's convinced everyone is disgusted by him now. What he is, how he was created- Makes him try and isolate himself from everyone but Gale n the others won't let him

My Friend Funhouse: NOOOOOO GOD THAT WOULD FUCK ANYONE UP. KNOWING YOU WERE CREATED DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF SOMEONE BEING MURDERED, BEING MADE OF THAT PERSON AND HAVING SOME OF THEIR MEMORIES????

do u think scribbles like. he wonders where janus' twin ends and he begins? he and the guy seem to share a lot of similarities

Me: YEAH. YEAH. absolutely. In a sense he just. He doesn't know who he is anymore. He isn't sure if he's Janus brother- Or if he's still him? If he was ever him? or if he's just whatever's left from what Janus did to his brother- and it freaks him out so much and scares him-. He's wrong- everything's so wrong. It is: so obvious and he can't see himself without thinking about what Janus did- what he's made of.

He wants to hide. He doesn't want to be this or think about this- He tries so hard not to but he can't see himself without being reminded of what he is and what Janus did to him-His brother.

Think that like, Scribbles whole- sense of self is just really effected from this whole thing.

He already had a bit of like, a Shaky Sense of who he was before, but its so much worse now. I think I told you about Alice right? Miss: Scalpel n Blood lady right?

>Interrupting here to put explanation for Alice here! I don’t think I’ve spoken about her here, so I’ll just paste a lil thing w stuff I’ve thought of for her here:<

I don't have everything completely thought out on her, n how exactly she comes 2 be: But she is another thing Janus Created.

She was this sort of like- Cursed Scalpel he left in the towns hospital, originally made to cause harm but she'd changed herself so that now: Whenever she's used to help people these people do not die, n always survive.

Whenever she's finally able to LEAVE this, to turn into her Actual Self she's pretty much just. This very Tall- Feminine figure made of Blood, that has a head that's just a blade of a Scalpel. Her ‘head’ is attached to a bird like neck, made of the same blood that makes up her body. Her head moves in a very bird like manner, n in general she moves in quick, short, jerky movements. She doesn’t appear to have eyes: but she can see just fine. She can hear VERY well, n will often turn her head to wherever sound is coming from. 

Her body is sort of like- a silhouette of someone wearing a long, flowing dress. She doesn’t seem to have legs- instead she has a long train of blood that spills behind her, that drags along the floor. Fingers end in more scalpel blades, sharp and curved. She can retract them though. 

She's Very intimidating. She's upfront, and to the point- she does not lie or ever sugar coat things, even if what she tells someone may hurt them.

She always means well though- and cares Deeply for everyone around her, especially Scribbles n the Moore family.

She deeply hates Janus- And wants nothing more then to kill him for what he's done. She's supposed to be like...Beautiful but in a very- surreal- haunting sort of way.

>END OF INTERRUPTION. SORRY I DIDN’T POST BOUT HER SOONER.<

Me: I rly like the idea of her(Alice) Talking to him. She's very Upfront- Very to the fact about things- She does not sugar coat or give him sweet words as the others do. . She tells him point blank that they were all created like this. That they all had parts and pieces from people, who had lives- Families, They are all made of Blood deep inside. . Their existences are dark, and bloody- and Wrong. And it is something they will simply have to live with the rest of whatever lives they all have now. He isn't any different from them.

My Friend Funhouse: :sadkitty: ALICE.... shes not wrong but :(

Me: She pretty much. Tells him to stop crying about it. It won't change what he is, or how he came into being. This is what he is, he is made from the parts left of another Man and that is the reality of his existence.

No amount of his crying will ever change this, so its best to accept it and Move Past it like she's done.

It...uh. Scribbles lashes out pretty badly at her do to this. It Hurts him, upsets him- feels like she's saying he can't be hurt- when it isn't. She's saying there's no point in letting it hurt him this is simply the reality of what he is- But he isn't ready to accept it.

My Friend Funhouse: sobs....YEAH. I FIGURED HE WOULDNT TAKE IT WELL

Me: YEAH. YEAH....................Alice doesn't rly care that it hurt him, at least in that moment: its the truth. She accepted it, lives with it- so why can't He?

She means well, but she's going about it in such a wrong way that just leaves him more hurt, and Angry.

Scribbles does like- Accept this at some point? But I'm not sure like- what Makes him, or what leads him to.

I kind of like the idea of like...Scribbles somehow Meeting? Seeing Janus' brother somehow- But I don't know how this would happen HJKGFLDSJG

My Friend Funhouse: dreams

Me: OUGUHHBJG!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAS. I don't know what happens in them, but they like. Talk at least. It is...Surreal- and weird, It feels like he's talking to himself rather than someone else in a way.

Janus' Brother is nothing like Janus. He's kind- and Nice. Scribbles realizes that's something he was scared about...That Janus' brother was bad like him, but turned out he isn't anything like thim. Just looks like him.

I think Janus' brother like..Tells Scribbles its okay. He doesn't need to be scared or question who he is. He's him and even though he's created from Them- He isn't them. He's himself and Janus' brother is happy with that- He's happy with who Scribbles is, Says he's allowed to exist even if he was brought into the world in such a bloody, Violent way.

It doesn't effect or change who he is, or change the fact he's a good person- And that they're happy with- what's become of what they were. They're proud to be like..A Part of him.

Am imagining the more they speak, the more Janus' brother sounds: less like another person n more of just. Like Scribbles- until the two sound exactly the same.

My Friend Funhouse: :sadkitty: IM GONNA CRY

Me: SAME. SAME ME TOO. The last time they see each other, like the last dream Scribbles has, when he turns to look at Janus' brother: instead of seeing them he just sees Himself.

It's only then does he really just. Accept Things- allows himself to exist and be without thinking about Janus' brother n how he was created. Course he still thinks about them- But it isn't due to him being scared of like, if he's really him or whatever now. It's more of like- He tries to live his life to sort of Honor the fact Janus' brother died. . Yes he is made with parts and memories of someone else, but it doesn't Define like- who he is, or makes him them. He's him, Scribbles- and even though he was created in such a dark way it doesn't change that.

I CAN'T WORD BUT. YEAH. idk iv i explained it well but OUGHUHU feelings

Scribbles jsut- He feels like he's allowed to just Be Him now. Sure theres still moments when he feels so horribly wrong- but It's okay now. It doesn't hurt as much.

N THTS IT. THTS ALL OF IT. SORRY FOR SO MUCH.nOT ENTIRELY just about Janus n their Sibling but! A lotta stuff I’ve written n come up w d:] Thank u 2 funhouse for letting me ramble to him d:DD

#Cade's Characterz #Janus Crawford #Blaise Crawford

[thejoewholived]

Hi! My name is Jonalyn.

Sometimes, I go with the flow or like a mirror ball, reflecting all sorts of vibes. Other times, I'm all about embracing my inner quietude, wanting nothing more than some alone time. And hey, don't be fooled by my occasional neediness—I ain't looking for attention, guys!

Now, when it comes to socializing, let's just say I have my moments. Meeting new people is a hoot, but keeping those convos going for too long? Well, let's just say it can get a bit awkward. But fear not, my friends! Once I'm in the mood, prepare yourselves for an epic chat that'll have you rolling with laughter or not!

Ah, dreams and impracticality—my two trusty sidekicks! Reality isn't always my cup of tea, which is probably why I adore diving into books. They transport me to magical realms where daydreaming knows no bounds. I mean, who needs reality when you have the marvelous Harry Potter Series, the delightfully unfortunate A Series of Unfortunate Events, the sparkling Twilight Saga, the captivating Narnia Series, and the mind-bending Delirium Series? These literary wonders keep me happily lost in a whirlwind of imagination!

But wait, there's more! Stars, moon, and all things space—now that's my jam! Space is like a galactic buffet for my curious mind!

Also, imagine what everything looked like a thousand years ago. The smells, the vibes, the flavors of old recipes—oh, it's a sensory feast! And let's not forget the captivating history that accompanies it.

Now, don't be fooled by my shyness—some people mistake it for snobbishness. But hey, once you crack that shell, you'll find a friendly soul ready to rock your world!

Oh, emotions! They're like a rollercoaster ride through a candy store! Over the years, I've learned to tame the wild beast within, keeping those emotions in check. Thank goodness for personal growth and all that jazz! Here's a little secret: I might be guilty of procrastinating through daydreaming. Yep, my mind can be a bit of a scatterbrain, and I'm not too thrilled about it. But hey, we all have our quirks, right?

But let's talk about something truly fantastic—my artistic side! I've got creativity bursting from every pore! Curiosity fuels my insatiable thirst for knowledge, and boy, do I get excited when I stumble upon answers. Deducing, cracking codes and ciphers, and diving into the magical realm of metaphors—oh, it's like a never-ending funhouse of creativity!

Therefore, I'm a delightful mix of randomness, all dependent on my ever-shifting mood. Ciao!

PS: I love Roses.

#introducing myself #introduction #myself #pisces #daydreamer #bookworm #free write #weird #random #person #roses

[kyojuuros]

I think the real tragedy of the EMA convo is that you can see where all of the things eren is saying started from. It’s like a really gut-wrenching funhouse mirror distortion of things but they’re all just half-truths? “I’ve always hated you Mikasa” stems from his resentment of her when he was younger. “I hate people who aren’t free” comes from how he hated how complacent people in the walls were. “Armin’s useless” is probably from when they first met and he didn’t fight back against the bullies

Yep! Eren has taken things he has said and felt in the past, distorted them, balled them up into a nice little package called “Armin and Mikasa’s biggest insecurities” and threw the bombs right at their faces. 

Tragic, cruel, horrible. 

#snk spoilers #snk 112 #anon #reply

[relationshipcrimes]

“Make what weird?!” Grif retorts" to "Because we’re straight,” he says again, like he’s proving a point." from chapter 33 of qed for the commentary thing please

\o/ !! cracks knuckles

one of the running jokes that i was (supposed to have been) leaning on throughout the fic was this common occurrence where simmons would talk at length about a subject, but somehow wind up with a conclusion that doesnt make any sense, either because he’s transparently shoving his head in the sand or he got derailed by something in his thought process that sounded right in the moment but led him to something ridiculous. simmons coming to blatantly illogical conclusions was supposedly the joke that qed is named after, dating all the way back to this line in chapter 5, where simmons talks at length about his vague self-hatred and then concludes the section with: “QED: Simmons is a mentally healthy and functioning individual with absolutely zero hang-ups whatsoever.”

simmons shoving his head in the sand while events unravel under his willingly-oblivious nose isn’t, ah, specific to his mental health; it’s supposed to apply to grif’s mental health and the relationship unfolding between him and grif. it’s also supposed to funhouse-mirror reflect (in the way that grimmons tends to reflect each other but in contrasting ways) grif’s tendency to just avoid people (shailene) and responsibilities (”fake dating plot”) whenever shit gets rough. 

the “romance novel” and the “eating disorder parable” were supposed to run in parallel, in other words, so for an event as significant as the first time these two make physical contact/kick off any sort of romantic subplot, i needed the event to be, at its core, the exact same mental gymnastics that simmons pulls to deny his own eating disorder.

in some ways it’s easier to make fun of simmons while in his head, so the challenge of the passage you mentioned was conveying simmons’s ridiculous lack of logic to the audience while in grif’s head, not simmons’s. thankfully, by the time i actually typed simmons’s entire explanation out, it was just… so transparently stupid that i could present simmons’s nonsense logic with barely any interference from the narrator or commentary from grif. which was great, because if i know myself, i probably wrote and finished that chapter like five minutes before the deadline.

the reason grif doesnt say anything to contradict simmons is because the object of his seven-year-crush is fucking holding his hand and grif is internally losing his shit while simultaneously trying to pretend he isn’t. LOL.

other notes: 1) i also had to bring private jackson back for at least a lil mention considering he’s the theoretical exposition-man of “straight dudes in the military engaging in homosexual relationships to prove how straight they are” which is apparently a real thing that happens, don’t ask me how, masculinity is basically a bethesda game 

2) the “yeah?!” “yeah?!” “yeah!” was a reference to the season 15 convo–you know the one–because i fucking love referencing that stupid thing, lololol

thanks for the ask, this was super fun to do!!! :)

#qed #mine #anonymous

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

I need more doomed Yuri. Not doomed in the sense that like their relationship won’t work out but like…doomed by circumstance. Doomed by fate. Doomed because they loved each other so strongly, so violently, so transcendently that everything else is destroyed by the force of it.

I want Yuri that’s doomed but the love persists so viciously that it dooms everyone. I want Shakespearean levels of tragedy Yuri.

I want Yuri that that is feral and untamable. I want Yuri that is beautiful and terrifying and ferocious. Yuri that annihilates anything and everything that dares stand in its way.

#funhouse convo #Yuri #Signalis #YES THIS POST IS ABOUT SIGNALIS #it’s also about Madoka magica #also mayyyybbbbeeee a little bit about revolutionary girl hyena #but i can’t know b/c I have not watched it yet #please drop recommendations #signalis 2022 #signalis game

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

I just. I don’t really want to keep talking about it, but I have to get these feelings out because the more I think about Somerton’s excuses video the angrier I get, ESPECIALLY given his insistence in the video that there isn’t a real community within LGBTQ spaces—specifically this quote; “We wanted it to be a channel where every queer person could feel welcomed... And we failed at that. That is something that, in hindsight, I think is impossible to create.”*

Because wow! Aren’t you the one who called Becky Albertalli, a bisexual woman, straight ?? Aren’t you the one who has consistently stolen queer and lgbtq people’s work as your own , profiting off of their labor and research and time? Aren’t you the one who sicced your fan base on smaller creators who noticed your plagiarism??? Aren’t YOU the one who LIED blatantly about lesbians “historically having it easier” than gay men ?? That LIED about Radclyffe Hall’s book being banned and destroyed???? What was it you said?? That she got to go on with “her merry little life”???

Fuck you. How dare you.

How dare you say there is no community, no safe space for all of us, when you have literally done NOTHING but maliciously and consistently stolen from, lied to, manipulated, and put down and bullied the community.

You have done nothing but try to break apart and put down your lgbtq siblings, so of course you believe that solidarity, safety, and intersectionality within our community is not something that can exist.

There are lgbtq people who are actively working to make those spaces, where everyone feels welcomed, but you clearly see yourself as being above that, above collaboration and community, above listening to other’s experiences.

You only think that a space where all queer and lgbtq people are welcomed and feel safe is impossible because your goal was never to carve out that space. It was to make money and take advantage of the people who looked up to you.

You think it’s impossible because you never once thought about the people you were stealing from, never once cared about the community, our history, the activism of our elders and all they did, never thought about how your actions and lies would hurt the community.

Stop making excuses and lying. Be fucking better.

———————————————————————

*(Somerton, James. “A Measured Response.” YouTube, uploaded by James Somerton, 26 February 2024, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kCNByQ6WopM)

(And that’s how you cite a FUCKING source, James. It took me a minute, after two seconds of research on how to source a YouTube video. Fuckhead)

*I added the link to the video to make a point, as you need to have it in citations. The video is monetized, so please either don’t click it and watch elsewhere OR watch with ad-blockers.

#james somerton #LGBTQ #lgbtq community #fuck off james fuCK OFFFFFFFF!!! #lesbian #im a lesbian and im so fucking mad at him ignoring the historical solidarity there was between gays and lesbians #so mad at him erasing people’s experiences and stealing #I’m so glad I never fucking saw this guys videos #hbomberguy #media criticism #funhouse convo #funhouse vent

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

The Todd in Shadows video on Somerton makes me SO much angrier than Hbomberguy’s SOLELY b/c while Hbomb’s covers the terrible impact of his plagiarism and its terrible, Todd’s has more actual clips of Somerton’s stupid stupid condescending cadence where he’s just SMUGLY LYING about all sorts of bullshit that’s usually extremely self-congratulatory OR misogynistic and it makes me want to fuckin vomit.

#james somerton #hbomberguy #todd in the shadows #funhouse vent #funhouse convo #saw somertons new stupid excuse video and decided to re-watch Todd’s vid again instead #AND NOW AM JUST LIKE ‘FUCK WHAT THE HELL JAMES U CANT JUST SAY SHIT?’

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

Sinner’s Demon Designs vs. Their Human Designs—

I’ll start off by saying I’m not trying to shame anyone or say these design choices are bad-it’s just something I’ve noticed about Helluva Boss’ character design choices that struck me as odd considering Hazbin Hotel’s character designs-specifically the designs of the “Sinners” or characters that were once human.

More than anything I just think it’s interesting, and am trying to examine the character designs from a world-building perspective.

So, since rewatching HB, I’ve realized that the Sinner Versions we see of Human characters are pretty close in design to their Human selves.

It’s very easy to tell these are the same characters. They’re all the same proportions with the same face shapes, and have similar silhouettes. (Critique continues below)

Now, this could change for Hazbin Hotel (and maybe there already are canon human designs for the HH sinners that I couldn’t find?) but in my opinion, most of the designs don’t translate well to what their human forms might have looked like. There’s of course exceptions to this, with the more humanoid demons, but with demons like Angel Dust, Husk, and Sir Pentious, I assume their human forms look almost nothing like their demon selves.

I think the main reason for this probably boils down to the Hazbin cast having established designs way before the series was created, but I feel this has created a problem where there are SOMETIMES rules for why Sinners look the way they do, and sometimes the designs seem completely random.

I’ve read that the way that sinners are designed is based partially on the way they die, and if that’s true, there doesn’t seem to be any rules or guidelines on WHEN to convey that—Mrs. Mayberry’s sinner form doesn’t particularly hint towards her death in any way in my opinion, but it’s VERY clear that the counselor died via drowning/water.

This wouldn’t be a huge issue on its own, but the creators have stated multiple times that Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel take place in the same universe. The rules for why characters are designed the way they are should be clear visually, but the designs of the Hazbin cast have always seemed random and confusing to me personally.

It looks like the majority of the Hazbin cast are designed after animals, but that’s not always clear either.

I didn’t realize that Angel was supposed to be a spider until I was explicitly told that was what he was, and I thought Alastor was an Owl based character due to his hair looking like a great horned owl’s feather tufts, and because his antlers were so small and dark that I didn’t notice them until I watched the pilot the first time. It’s possible the first drafts of these designs looked more like the animals they’re supposed to be based on, but if you don’t know all of the backstory or haven’t been following the creators, I’m not sure how you’re supposed to recognize these things.

Overall, I don’t think it’s a BAD thing to have a cast of characters that have very different designs, or don’t have very clear design rules for their universe. But in my opinion, having this big of a difference in the Sinner’s character designs when all of these characters are supposed to share the same universe really confuses things.

More than anything though I just found this sort of interesting. I’d be interested to hear more about the process of designing sinner characters, and to see what more sinners look like outside of the main cast that was initially designed several years ago.

Also please don’t send me hate—I like Helluva Boss, and I’ll probably like Hazbin Hotel. I just enjoy critiquing and examining the stuff I like and I’ve been on an HB kick since I rewatched the series recently and while watching this just occurred to me and I wanted to talk about it.

#funhouse convo #helluva boss critique #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss critical #hazbin hotel critical #media critique #media criticism #media conversation #character design #character design convo

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

Nuanced and Multifaceted Conflict vs. “Good v. Evil” in fiction

So. This is another thing I’ve wanted to talk about for a while. I promise I won’t always be focusing on Helluva Boss in my critiques, and I actually have quite a few other series I want to talk about.

There’s a big chance that I’ll be saying everything other people have already said, but I can’t help but WANT to talk about this specific character in regard to the story’s conflict. I think that it’s important to recognize when a character is written to be a complex person, and when a character is written to be an enemy to be defeated, and how not following through with your set-up can affect your story.

And HB does that A LOT in my opinion.

So. Let’s get into it. This time I’ll be talking about complex conflict between characters vs. black and white conflict, and I’ll also be touching on story set-ups and audience expectations.

I want to talk about a character who could have really made some of the internal character conflicts have so much more depth and intrigue. I want to talk about Stella Goetia

*as a side note this post is MUCH longer than I intended but I really wanted to get into a lot of the background and reasons for how Stella’s character development has actually completely changed what HB’d story conflict could have looked like. I’ll try and sum up everything in the end in a TLDR for y’all

So. Most of the reviews of her character I see talk about how she’s been “ruined” by the writing team revealing that she’s always been very abusive towards Stolas

I have to start off by saying I actually don’t think that Stella or her portrayal was “ruined” by the writing direction her character has been taken in.

In fact, this critique bothers me, because it doesn’t really get to what I think the actual root of why people are disappointed in Stella’s characterization, and the type of conflict that now exists between her and Stolas.

The main reason I believe people are unsatisfied with Stella is because they believed that her character was being set up for a complex and nuanced conflict between her and Stolas, and then that turned out not to be the case.

A quick disclaimer- I do think it’s possible to subvert audience expectations about story and characters in a satisfying way. But it has to be done in a way that respects the audiences intelligence and willingness to think about the story.

If your plot-twist, unreliable narrator, subversion, or what-have-you is done well, the audience should be able to either figure out what’s going based on the little information you’ve given them, and if they don’t, the change or subversion should still make sense and CLICK in hindsight.

Otherwise, your subversion will end up feeling cheap or confusing. Or worse, like a lie.

And this is one of the MAIN issues I think people have with Stella.

As the audience, we were NOT given enough information on her or her character before it’s revealed that she’s just “evil” and always has been, apparently since she was a literal child.

Again, I don’t think it’s an inherently bad decision to have a flat or pure evil villain. I’m fine with Stella being one, even if it’s less interesting to me personally.

But it’s definitely very different from what was initially implied and set-up, and the audience can pick up on that.

Before S2E1 “The Circus” we see Stella a total of 3 times in person, with one time being a flashback.

I’m going to go over those times to analyze if anything set-up in Stella’s appearances points towards her being. Well, totally and irredeemably awful and abusive I guess.

The very first time we see Stella is in the same bed with Stolas—Octavia calls for her parents, both Stolas AND Stella. Stella grumbles and refuses to get up and tells Stolas to go. This doesn’t immediately strike me as a sign of her being a terrible person. That exact scenario is present in a lot of family comedies, kids’ movies, and sitcoms.

Nothing about this screams that Stella is a terrible parent or an abusive partner to me. It just tells me she’s tired and doesn’t want to get up, which again, is not uncommon.

The next time we see her, she’s yelling at Stolas, and she throws a servant at him in anger.

Now, there’s no excuse for this, her behavior here is not okay, regardless of her feelings. But we understand why she’s acting the way she is--she’s furious with Stolas for cheating on her. At this point with the information we have, it’s also very reasonable to believe her feelings have been hurt.

Later Octavia talks about how her parents didn’t used to hate each other, and the way Stolas’ tries to explain their failing marriage to her comes across like his relationship with Stella is one that’s always had difficulties that they have tried and failed to overcome.

None of this information is enough to really convey or hint that Stella is and has always been abusive or evil. It shows that Stella and Stolas have a very rough relationship, and that Stella most likely has anger management difficulties, but you have to do lot of extra work to come to the conclusion that Stella is completely at fault here.

The next time we see her though, things have clearly escalated, because it’s revealed that she’s one that hired Striker to assassinate Stolas.

Now. Usually. Yeah. That would be a HUGE red flag. And I mean. It still obviously is.

But, and I never thought I’d use this uno reverse card, this is one of the few times where the explanation of “But it’s hell, what did you expect???” actually makes sense to me.

Because yeah, it is hell. It’s the end of episode 5 when we learn this, and our protagonists have killed and assassinated multiple people. Taking a hit out on people really doesn’t seem to be that uncommon of a thing in hell.

Even the next scene after the reveal that Stella is the one who hired Striker makes light of how serious this is, by showing that Stella was basically yelling her assassination plot right to Stolas’ face.

This is played for laughs! I genuinely am not sure if the writers intended for this to be foreshadowing of Stella’s abuse or not because if so, they turned her attempting to kill her husband into a joke!

If you cannot keep your themes or tone consistent, how is the audience supposed to follow your story?

There is subtle storytelling, and then there’s tacking information and character points later on in your writing. And this can have two causes.

Either your audience has to do the work of story-telling for you and make up their own reasons for what’s happening to make the story coherent OR they will be disappointed and dissatisfied by the final product.

I think that’s the main reason why S2E1 of Helluva Boss felt so jarring story-wise, and why Stella, to me at least, suddenly felt like a brand new character.

Like I haven’t been this confused by a character being suddenly evil since Hans from Frozen.

(like seriously why the hell did they put this scene in if not to just trick the audience. This isn’t giving us any plot info it’s only giving us contradictory info on his character. Like I talked about before, Hans’ heel-face-turn doesn’t feel like a twist. It feels like a lie.)

Okay so, how does any of this actually affect anything? Who cares if Stella is evil, that doesn’t automatically make the story bad!

Well. Yeah, of course not. Ironically, having the main conflict your story being a battle between “Good v. Bad” characters is neither good nor bad. It’s just a story decision. And ultimately at the end of the day, the writers of Helluva Boss can choose to tell their story however they’d like.

But, depending on how this is executed, good v evil stories can be a lot less interesting than morally grey or complicated conflicts and characters.

I am more interested in the version of the story where Stella and Stolas are imperfect and messy people. I am more interested in the story where Stolas has an affair to escape being in an arranged marriage, and Stella overreacts by arranging a hit on her husband (unless calling out a hit is normal in hell, but we can’t know b/c there is no baseline for what is considered normal in hell)

I am so much more interested in the story where Stolas and Stella are both depicted as being in the wrong, as being incredibly hurt by each other’s actions, and as not knowing how to repair their broken relationship for the sake of their daughter.

That story feels very real to me. It’s one I want to engage and invest in.

I want to see if these characters can grow to accept their mistakes and learn and change for the sake of Octavia and having to co-exist with each other, or if they’ll slip back into mutual destruction and toxicity.

But that’s not the story we’ll get to see, because it seems like the writers are more interested in keeping Stolas from having to grow as a character. And because of that, Stella has been turned into an evil obstacle that must be defeated, instead of a nuanced and real person.

I also feel like I have to say. I know I would be MUCH less frustrated by this if I hadn’t seen an HB crew member talking about how their show is similar to Bojack Horseman.

Because. It’s just not. I’m sorry, I’m not saying that to be mean, or condescending, or rude, but the way characters are written in Helluva Boss is almost completely black and white at this point.

Regardless of the writer’s intent, the vast majority of the choices they have made in Season 2 come off as explanations to excuse the protagonist’s mistakes, and give them a “get out of being potentially in the wrong” free card.

Compared to the writing decisions in Bojack, which almost always has characters confront their wrongdoings, for better or worse, HB honestly feels like it’s the Anti-Bojack.

It would take a TON of character development and time to make HB’s characters as interesting, fleshed-out, and as real as Bojack’s are, and at this point that’s I don’t think it will ever happen.

Again. Having black and white conflict is FINE. It is a choice in story telling that can be done very effectively. But if you are making a black and white story where one side is always terrible and evil, and one side can do no wrong, you can’t act like you’ve written something that is deeper and more emotionally complex and grey than that.

And the first time the writers gave Stella more than 3 sentences to string together, they made it very clear that any chance of her being a more complex and engaging character was being tossed out the window.

————

TLDR:

The main reason people are upset about Stella being shown as abusive in S2E1 of HB is probably because the initial depictions of her didn’t give us enough information on her character to tell that she was just evil/a terrible person.

The way the story was written in S1 to set up the possibility of a very interesting and complex conflict between Stella and Stolas, and when it was revealed that she’s just. The worst. There were people that were disappointed by this, because they expected more.

Audiences actually aren’t idiots, and when you subtly foreshadow something and then completely change things, that can be frustrating.

It’s MORE than okay to write a straightforward good v evil story, but it depending on the way it’s written and executed, it may not be as interesting to mature audiences as a more morally grey story would be.

If you can’t write characters confronting their flaws and being in the wrong, please don’t compare your writing to Bojack, I mean. C’mon.

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