#Spn s15 spec

[curioussubjects]

Ok so I have some spnwin-spn connection spec I wanna share with y'all from back when @alwaysanoriginal were spiraling over some interview about The Winchesters (as we do). The second to last question is about John's journal being created, which of course made me think of plot hole vampmimes. Of course.

Or maybe not so plothole-y?

That was mostly a joke, though I did hope tonight was going to maybe for the lolz address that. Well, little did I know because that old convo continued with this:

DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF ANYTHING YOU WATCHED TONIGHT

DOES IT

Char, then, decided to come for me in the night and point out that the Running on Empty montage in 19 has some pretty choice scenes featuring Changing Channels, Wayward Sisters and the AU rift, Dean time traveling, and The Heroes' Journey (which I always argued was essentially the intended finale metaphorically).

Side note: sorry to expose y'all to my private ravings lol

A lot of this actually comes back to a point Billie made in s15 about Chuck building reality with himself at the center to keep it ticking. So how can you possibly beat him? By letting him think he won. I can't help but remember that delightful line from Dean in s12: "‘Cause we’re not trapped out here with you. You’re trapped out here with us." You know, that one time Dean and Sam pulled a death gambit to escape a black ops site.

But back to The Winchesters: last week we had Carlos refusing to play Loki's game (a god who can affect reality, or one's perception thereof) and winning. But to do so, he had to put his life on the line. He had to be willing to lose everything. By the way, I am once again feeling very emotional about Carlos saying he sacrificed everything for hunting, but he gained so much more because that's it! That's the thing! So yeah...cue Carlos singing Hard Times Come Again No More to his family.

This week John is the one with the seemingly inescapable fate of death (courtesy of vampires because of course), and while he doesn't tap out of the game, he realizes he knows nothing about the context of what he saw. He only got half the story, and the rest was up to him. It's appropriate, too, that this week we get another Supernatural classic with Mary reassuring John that they will find another way. And yeah, John does and wins.

And, I mean, if we're talking fate and god and gambles, why not remember a nifty piece of advice Sam and Dean received from Fortuna in The Gamblers: “Don’t play his game. Make him play yours.”

My point is if we look at 19 and 20 much like we would a vision from an amulet, none of the plot of Supernatural needs to change. It's fated. But as Millie says, and John says, and Dean say: fate is what you make it. And if The Winchesters is about how Sam and Dean became the Winchesters, then what else is this show but the context we've been missing all along.

(send this man to stan jail tbh)

[also what is more Winchester stupid than the cosmic consequences of saving your family...like...say...releasing the Darkness or...causing an Akrida infestation...though who knows that could've been on purpose for reasons. I'm putting nothing past spnwin.]

Don't ask me how Dean goes from pulling a death gambit to get into heaven to time travelling to tweak with his parents' past. We're through the looking glass here people and we'll simply have to wait and see -- but the puzzle is for sure getting less mysterious. Something free will, knowledge, family, and Growth, something. Therapy. You know, The Winchesters.

Or I'm totally off the mark and I'll have egg for face who's to say, but for now, as a treat, I'm feeling very

#yes that's an apollo gift of prophecy joke that only 10 people will get what of it lolsobs #the winchesters #supernatural #spnwin #spn #the winchesters spoilers #spnwin spec #spn meta #my writing #remember how we've been joking about the finale being absurdist theater #WELL DO I HAVE BIG IF TRUE NEWS FOR YOU LMAO #please think about that godawful barn speech as a french mistake attempt at acting #if there's a lock there must be a key style #it's FICTION! A COMPLETE FABRICATION! #but it's also true because it happened we lost we sacrificed everything #but we gained so much more #chuck won #...but then he didnt!!!!

[incarnateirony]

I have to figure that this cancellation talk is all a distraction. Distraction from what is actually going on in the show and what jensen’s actual pov on SPN is. It’s the only thing they have going that has some uncertainty until tw is announced as renewed.

Basically yeah. And wish fulfillment. But I'm glad they've been failing so loudly, blatantly, and rapid fire. It's the kind of exposition the rest of fandom has needed to watch click when I explain the difference between professional and expert opinions attached to spec or leaks--and some asshats that think they can pay for access or attention to get the answers or control the flow.

They ain't even got a way to recover. 2po and that lot spent MONTHS screaming this wasn't really about dean, that the narration was just to pull numbers, it wasn't dean's story or dean's peace at all, and they absolutely refused to listen when I told them they were already watching dean's story, and here's how.

Like, people that read my blog should not have been surprised by episode 8. Just iike they won't be surprised by episode 10. And frankly, they shouldn't be surprised by anything because I have been consistently explaining these details since Deadline, give or take. In fact that's WHY they wanted me to be wrong about the pilot so bad. Bc I was like no it's real i seen the old drafts and the script draft timestamps match, this is legit.

Doubled down screaming eight solid months just to cross the lines about who said who wrote what copy when, muddying the history of it on purpose.

They're staring down the barrel of a loaded gun right now so all they have left is malice and spiteful hopes of cancellation that they think they can shuffle around information to divine a potential for like tea leaves, rather than actual understanding of industry machinations, or sources like the 2 year deals I've talked about. (even beyond the october one. i had mentioned another.)

And so on and so forth.

I don't know how long my readers have been here but this is the same path that happened in season 15 with these same folks. And unlike their claims, S15 was the only year I told yall that you had a real chance, cuz it was already written. S14 and before I just said respect berens good faith efforts, which these same people intentionally manipulated to derail in discussion, claiming no intent like WB paid for the market testing for funzies.

Noise. It's all noise and distraction. And that's why I keep highlighting it loudly. It's time for the fandom to realize what I meant about certain sects of nobodies that understand nothing manipulating fandom discourse for years. And now you're watching it all fall apart on them in slow mo as they scream and demand it get changed to suit them.

[sortasirius]

Hm.

4x10.  The episode where Cas was supposed to die permanently, to be replaced by Anna

The place where Cas is saved from Allistair by Dean.  The place where Dean comes face to face with what he did for Allistair for the first time since Hell.  He tells Sam about the torture.

“He has this weakness.  He likes you.”

"She fell to earth, became human.”

"I don’t get it, so angels can just...become human?"

"It kinda hurts, try cutting your kidney out with a butter knife, that kind of hurt.  I ripped out my grace.”

First mention of an angel falling, loss of grace.

Anna wanting to feel.

“I wish I couldn’t feel a damn thing.”

“Maybe I don’t deserve to be saved.”

“Union, Kentucky.  Found some accounts of a local miracle.”

“Yeah?”

“Yeah.  In ‘85, there was an empty field outside of town.  Six months later there was a full grown oak.  They say it looks a century old at least.”

“Anna, what do you think?”

“The grace, where it hit, it could have done something like that, easy.”

“So grace ground zero.  It’s not destruction, it’s-”

“Pure creation.”

Tree.  Feathers.  Sam and Dean.

Just something to chew on.

#is my photographic memory of spn finally paying off? #supernatural #spn #spn s15 spec #spn 4x10 #spn 15x04 #my meta #destiel

[agusvedder]

--I have in my head on a loop:

"...Gay love can pierce through the veil of death and save the day."

Ghostfacers - 3x13

On a loop. On a loop. In that haunted house, the victims repeat their deaths on a loop, again and again. Always a circle. And if Corbett was freed by the power of love, that means they not only repeat their deaths, but their feelings are still untouched, they're still there pulling something to keep those ghosts stuck, unable to move on...  Like angels and demons in the empty, they repeat their deaths and their biggest mistakes, their unfinished bussiness. 

Ruby: "Why do you call it Empty? This place is full, full of sorrow and despair playing over and over again, of angels and demons dreaming about their regrets. Forever" (15x13)

Now, in this Ghostfacers episode from Season 3, they used Corbett’s feelings for Ed as a comedic resource at some level. Because in Supernatural s3, Gay=Joke. We know it’s not that way anymore. We know it for a fact. 

Now, I wanna bring some attention to this small piece of dialogue of the Ghostfacers episode.

SAM: Think we were off on this? I mean, that was just a death echo. 

 DEAN: Yeah, but what's it doing here? Did anybody get shot here? 

 SAM: No, not that I could find. 

 SPRUCE: What's a death echo? 

 SAM: Look, we got a problem here. That ghost ain't it. 

 HARRY: Yeah, that's real. Like, that happened. 

 SPRUCE: What's a death echo? 

 DEAN: Echoes are trapped in a loop, okay? They keep replaying how they died over and over and over again, usually in the place where they were ganked. It's about as dangerous as a scary movie. 

 SAM: So maybe the echo's not dangerous, but maybe something else is.

Okay, I know maybe it wasn’t the original intention of the writers for this episode to be a perfect guide to explain Destiel’s last episodes and the ending of Supernatural, but as show as well designed as this, and with so many callbacks, parallels and mirrors, I am doubting if this is not intentional, ‘cause the small piece of dialogue I wrote up there is not the end. 

Finally, the intern Corbett dies. And Harry suddenly has a moment of clarity. 

HARRY:- I...I know how we can get through to him. 

ED: How? 

HARRY: Ed... He had feelings for you. 

ED: Huh? 

HARRY: He wanted you. 

ED: Wa-- wanted me to what? 

HARRY: You know.  And you know what you've got to do. You can do it, Ed. You've always been the brave one. Yes, you can. You make us brave -- Maggie, right? 

MAGGIE: Yeah. Yeah you do. You totally do. 

HARRY: Ed...You got to go be gay for that poor, dead intern. You got to send him into the light."

Out of the darkness, into the light. 

"ED: Corbett, look. Hey, it's just Ed, buddy. It's just me. Hey, hey, Corbett, listen to me. Listen to me. I -- we... Okay. You meant... Corbett, you meant a lot to the team. You meant... You meant a lot to  me. You know, never back down...Never say a bad word, okay? I remember that, Corbett. I-I remember that. I remember because I love you, Corbett. I really, truly love you. Do you remember that? do you?"

Ed says the magic words to wake Corbett up from that loop of suffering, death and regret. Words that remind me to other words.

Buddy.  We needed you back. I don't get words wrong. We need you. I need you. 

Goodbye Stranger. When Dean was honest about his own feelings, Cas was free.

Also notice how Harry used “He wanted you” instead of, I don’t know, “he liked you” or something. This is a theme that’s been repeating for seasons with Dean specifically, the Want vs Need, the Plural vs Singular in regards to Cas. The whole purgatory arc, the Michael!Dean arc with his famous, seemingly random question “What do you want?” in the beginning of season 14. Surprise surprise, it’s not random, and we know it. 

(Tiny detail that maybe is not that interesting but I got it on my head and I gotta write it: In this season, episode 4, we see Chuck being a writer again, writing the last Winchester book. Chuck’s pseudonym in season 5 was Carver Edlund. This season we already had that callback to Carver, engraved on stone on the crypt where Rowena chooses to die. Where is our callback to Edlund? .... Well. Edlund wrote Ghostfacers in s3). 

Also, this small thing answer my own question from 15x02 when I noticed a visual parallel between Cas and the ghosts from hell.

Okay, so my speculation is that this specific dialogue will repeat some time in the future when SOME human we know rescue SOME dead angel we know and love. It. Fits. 

To Conclude, and in the Ghostfacer’s words:

ED: We know this much: that every day, including today, is a new beginning. We learned more than we can say in the brutal feat of the Morton House.

HARRY: The Ghostfacers were forced to face something far more scary than ghosts. They were forced to face themselves.

ED: War changes Man.

HARRY: And Maggie.

ED: War changes man. And one woman... You know Corbett, we just... ah gosh, we just like to think that you're out there, watching over us.

HARRY: As far as we're concerned, you're not an intern anymore. You have more than earned full Ghostfacer status. Plus, it would be cool to have a ghost on the team.

ED: Yeah. Heh heh. And here we were thinking that, you know, we were teaching you and all this time you were teaching us, about heart, about dedication, and about how gay love can pierce through the veil of death and save the day. Thank you, Alan J. Corbett.

(I know this is a mix of stuff, I’m not sorry though.)

-------

OKAY, so I’m not gonna detail phrase by phrase why it feels relevant, because it’s pretty evident, so I trust you guys to read it and share with me what you feel about the end, and how do you think this relates. But this is... ugh ñksndfñ.Its an amazing example on how FAR this show has gotten, how it keep circling back to the start over and over and over, and past canon but evidently evolved as an inspiration for future episodes. Certainly the “Gay” resource stopped being a joke a LONG time ago. 

Side note: thank you crippling depression, anxiety and self loathing for finally allow me to post this meta. 

#Supernatural s15 #Ghostfacers #SPN 3X13 #SPN SPEC #Spn s15 spec #Castiel #the empty #Destiel meta

[ltleflrt]

Time to shift y’alls focus.

Dean and Sam sitting against the table in the bunker looking somber, toasting to those they’ve lost.

“It’s pretty quiet.”

(Too quiet.)

"Finally free.”

(To go rescue our loved ones, one last time.)

Happy music starts, and Dean and Sam go on a roadtrip.

(To pick up Eileen, and hunt down leads to open the empty to rescue Cas.)

They’re happy because they have a PLAN.  And they’ve got work to do.

Like, seriously?  WHERE do you think they’re driving to?  Random road trip for funsies?  These dudes are God-defying Hunters, and you think that now that they’re free of Chuck’s narrative they’re going to just... waste gas driving around with the radio on and the windows down?  No.  They’re gonna do what they always do.  Saving people, hunting things. 

#hello i'm salty #the montage literally ends with the trunk slam #WE'VE GOT WORK TO DO #that has always signaled serious business #they're about to go do something epic #spn spoilers #spn s15 spec #wild speculation time

[daughter-of-the-rain-and-snow]

Some spec thoughts cause my brain likes to torture me:

Supposedly the Empty makes them relieve they're "failures" right?

What if, before Dean rescues him from the Empty, Cas sees a reel of destiel? Hear me out.

Cas went there cause he gave himself permission to be happy. So his "failure" would be not realizing that Dean loved him back with everything he got.

We get flashbacks a la 7x17 but with a twist! He gets to see everything he didn't knew! How Dean looked desperately for him in Purgaytory, how Dean wouldn't be a functional human when he left his side. How he made the mixtape to express his feelings for him cause it's the only way he knew how. How he utterly lost his will to live when Lucifer killed him..

And I could go on but I made me sad :)

So, when Dean, inevitably goes after him, he already knows and then we get a rousing speech from Dean, and his love will be revealed...

Why my brain is like this

#spn s15 spec #destiel #spn s15 spoilers

[girlasterisk]

manifesting destiel going canon tonight

clown with me everyone please

#pLease #i am in fact a destiel clown #spn #dean winchester #supernatural #castiel #destiel #neena.exe #spn s15 #spn 15x18 #spn s15 spec

[amwritingmeta]

hey! i was just wondering if you think spn will actually make destiel canon by the finale? it seems like in interviews they're trying to let us down gently w/a cas death (which possibly makes it seem like cas's ending might be related to his empty deal?) + all the parallels between saileen and deancas, and it looks like dabb and co (while not rly bringing arcs into conclusion and generally making a mess of spn) are fighting to make it canon, i was wondering what ur take on it was, esp after ep09

Oh, my dear, my heart is swelling with love for those two right now. I just watched the show through from 12x19-15x13 and I swear, that moment they share in 15x12, clinking those glasses and sharing all those smiles was like balm. It’s not even five minutes of screen time, and still it was like, okay, yes, good, thank you for the room to breathe. :D

It seems to be that Cas hearing Dean’s prayer has ushered in some much earned peace between them. They’re shown to be on the same page and taking each other’s side unquestionably. Dean trusting Cas’ judgment regarding Jack without pause. And that’s a good word for it: there’s trust between them, mutual respect, understanding. It’s so lovely, isn’t it?

So, there’s this line that’s sort of stuck with me. Actually, there are two things that have stuck with me (apart from all the gorgeous symbology baked into every episode) and it’s that the word “complete” has been mentioned twice.

Once in reference to Mary in Heaven, and once by Amara in reference to God.

Then we have a line that’s recurred twice: I had to die to get what I want.

The fact that its spoken verbatim twice made my antennas perk up a bit. It may mean nothing, as some things in this narrative sometimes do mean nothing, but it’s still interesting to take these things into account: that we’re searching for completion and that sometimes, in order to get what you want, you have to die.

So. Will Cas die?

I don’t think so. I don’t think so for many reasons that I’ve laid out here (I just posted this) (it was like you read my mind that this was coming today), but foremost because I cannot see how him dying does anything for his character arc, or for his joint journey with Dean.

You know, dark!Kaia (Kaia’s Shadow) going back to the Bad Place (Kaia’s unconscious) and accepting the ending waiting there, releasing our!Kaia back to the world where she belongs, makes me think, more than ever, that the integration of the main character’s Shadows are a necessity. 

The Empty, way I see it, is representative of Cas’ Shadow, his unconscious, all the repressed and suppressed emotions of guilt, shame and doubt that has kept his self-worth down until Jack came on the scene. 

And this is just my reading of this situation, but I’m not sure I can see Cas defeating the Empty in the Empty, if you know what I mean? The last time Cas intruded, the Empty made him suffer greatly. I don’t think Cas holds any sway there, nor should he. 

To me, the weapon our conscious has against our unconscious ruling our decisions, is our ability to grow aware of our own impulses, our own thought patterns, and making choices to break away from them.

I think Cas can only beat the Empty through making a choice and, well, for a long time I’ve felt that choice should be to become human, because by making a final choice of who he is and who he wants to be, he brings himself into awareness, integrating his Shadow in the process, and narratively nullifying the Empty’s hold on him, since humans don’t go to the Empty when they die: they go to Heaven. 

But that’s wishing and hoping and speculation, of course.

Here’s where the Destiel question comes in though.

Do I believe they’ll make it canon?

Personally, I can’t think of anything more a part of our story than the love story between those two, but I know what you mean. You mean a representative, tangible, clear, statement type of making it canon. Textualising it, so that there’s no room for doubt whatsoever. No more arguments, no more queer baiting complaints, just Destiel in plain sight. Undeniable. 

I do and I don’t.

Watching these last few seasons through again made me realise what a different feel to them this last season has, because the emotional stakes for Dean and Cas have everything to do with what they mean to each other. Yeah?

Dean taking his anger out on Cas and it pushing Cas into a turning point where he chose to leave, to move on, which was a moment of clear independence a statement of his sense of self-worth, and it in turn pushing Dean into a turning point where he faced a side to himself that he’s needed to name since forever, admitting to not having any control of himself, which is something he has to acknowledge if he’s to move into trusting himself fully, all of this has been gosh darn breathtaking to get to witness.

And having them land back in this ease, where they work together seamlessly as a team, being kept together more than not, the framing of them, all of this makes me feel like they could give us canon Destiel. I’m not going to say they absolutely won’t. 

I believe the writers want it. I believe the actors want it. But, again, that’s just what I take from the narrative itself, because the subtext is stronger than ever this final season. 

Especially with Sam and Eileen being reunited.

Because it’s been that clear parallel you mentioned, but it’s been that clear parallel to those of us who see it. The echoes of the Saileen romance that trace through the Destiel progression won’t be as resounding to those that don’t.

And because of that, at this point, I also feel quite reserved with my belief that Destiel could become canon. Because there’s so much, but there’s also nothing. There’s so much for us to enjoy, there’s so much evidence they keep throwing at us that the writers support this reading of their story, but still, there’s nothing, really, to let on that they’re building towards these two men, at some point, declaring their love for each other.

There has been zero textual foreshadowing of that.

There have been throw away moments, like the cop flirting with Dean, for example, but he frowned at that, and then got sincerely flirted with by a woman, so that deescalated that very quickly. 

There was Dean at first rejecting Garth’s compliment of “You smell SO good”, becoming uncomfortable, to then, by the end of the ep, tell Garth he didn’t smell half-bad either.

And there was that amazing moment with Cas calling out Sam being “sexually intimate” with Ruby and Dean repeating the words as if he can’t believe Cas even knows how to pronounce them.

So, there’s... you know, stuff?

But it’s not foreshadowing if it can be overlooked by the wider audience.

That said.

This show isn’t about this love story of ours. The fact that it’s so downplayed could mean that what we’ll get is something textual, but extremely subtle. I mean, for me, lingering eye-contact and a shared smile in a context that makes us understand they’re choosing each other would be enough.

If, by canon, you mean do I think we’ll get them kissing, then the answer is I want to believe that we might get that, because they could build towards that on the foundation of ease and trust that they’ve put down over the last few episodes and they could build it effectively, but I just don’t know if the studio (who own the characters) is onboard. 

My hope is that they are, because the topic of healthy representation is so hot right now, and the question of the longevity of Supernatural to the younger generations (you know, you young ones who are proving exceedingly more open-minded and looking for something beyond the superficial brothers-hunting-monsters aspect of the show) would bank on the show opening itself up to the possibilities of solid representation already seeded throughout its run.

But Dean has flirted with more women than men this season. You know? I mean, he hasn’t flirted with any men. So. 

Look, I’m not going to say I don’t think we’ll get it, because I don’t know. 

I watched S15 yesterday and finished it today and suddenly I feel this wave of hope that it actually might happen, because they’ve already changed how Dean and Cas interact, they’ve given them so many scenes with just the two of them, and we have Sam clearly meant to end up with Eileen, and doesn’t Dean and Cas deserve that same happiness? That same sense of completion? That internal peace of loving unconditionally and being loved in return?

Sam and Eileen could be foreshadowing. These writers are subtle and they could be gleefully rubbing their hands together at the thought of springing textual Destiel on the GA, you know? The green light from the studio might make them diabolical. *sadism* And I love that thought.

Because that’s been the point of the love story for me, this slow, slow build to the moment when Dean and Cas have reached a point in their progression when what they’ll have together is a healthy, balanced, loving relationship because they’ve both let go of the past and are looking to the future.

But I won’t expect textual Destiel. If we do get it, I’m going to treasure it as a big cherry on top of an already perfectly inviting and exquisite pie.

What I do believe, more than ever, that we’re getting, though, is closure. Even if it’s only at the subtextual level, I believe that those of us who read the subtext will have Destiel verified beyond a shadow of a doubt. And yes, I will be quite surprised and disappointed if we don’t get that. Because of how these first 13 episodes have been shaped and how strong the subtext is in them.

I believe we’ll end on a hopeful note.

And wouldn’t that just be gratifyingly phenomenal?

(it really would) (honestly I just need to know that they are happy and alive and together and well and finding peace and carrying on) (you know?) (thank you and amen) :)

xx

#answered asks #spn s15 spec #cas #dean #destiel #deancas #canon #oh I have the hopes #just not the expectations #:)

[coinofstone]

Of Snakes and Symbolism

Recently, MadyMischief voiced an observation about the nature of The Great DeanCas Breakup™ that I hadn’t considered before, and it really slotted something into place for me. Not just about the show, the ending overall, but about the DeanCas relationship specifically. I’ve talked about the fight before, because I think about it... a lot... but Mady pointed something out that I need to discuss further: 

“Jack is the first thing that Cas has ever really put above Dean. When Mary died, Cas instead of being supportive of Dean, actively sought to stop him. I think he feels betrayed twice - Cas didn’t tell them about the snake and that Cas didn’t take his side. That on top of all the other emotional trauma just broke Den. I think in hindsight Dean realizes why Cas put Jack first. But at that moment, Dean reverted back to being John’s child, whose main mission from age 4 to age 38 was to kill the thing that killed Mary. It wasn’t until actually faced with killing Jack that Mary’s influence reasserted itself. That’s why I was so stoked when Dean brought her up with Chuck when refusing to kill Jack. John’s hunting came from seeking vengeance; Mary’s hunting was always to save people.”

Thinking again about the snake - which we all kind of understand to be A Big Fuckin Deal in the DeanCas fight, so I won’t rehash that - I think it’s more symbolic than I had originally picked up on.

The obvious symbolism for the snake is the show itself. 'Ouroborus', which was the episode the snake first appeared in, is the symbol of the snake eating its own tail, the unbroken circle. Sam and Dean have been chasing their own tales for nearly fifteen years now, chasing monsters, averting apocalypses, even reliving the most defining trauma of their lives; losing their mom to a yellow eyed supernatural being. Jack killing the snake, as an act of kindness even though it is an act of destruction, can be directly paralleled with TFW finally breaking the cycle (of the show) by killing God (death of the author, literally). I say ‘killing’ but I expect something more akin to God being neutralized or locked out of our universe, but this is irrelevant here. The fact that the snake was killed by Jack himself using his power, is significant, but my own personal spec is that this will be how the series is resolved: Chuck being defeated by TFW using Jack’s powers. Now, after reflecting on Mady’s observation, I think the entire metaphor could be applied to DeanCas too. The romantic subtext that's been slithering through the series for a fuckin decade, but again, just going around in circles, nothing ever changing and now... that changes. I mean the snake’s death was literally the impetus for the change in their relationship, the thing that kicked off their big fight. And this particular fight truly is waaaaay more husband-y (they are literally fighting over their CHILD) than the previous fights they've had. Even though they’ve been at odds, they are still working together, still communicating in an albeit stilted, pseudo professional capacity, as shown in this clip from 15x01, prior to The Rupture:

The fact that Sam is like, nowhere near this one either, is especially telling. While Dean and Cas do share a more profound bond, (heh) usually when there is any kind of conflict it’s Cas vs Winchesters, plural. But this time, it’s entirely just between those two. And at this point (days before 15X09 airs), we kind of know that Dean doesn’t want to fight anymore. He’s expressed this as well as he can given his character, in everyone’s favorite example, the post-Rupture phone call from Golden Time:

Their usual dynamic is reversed here, as well. They are going through the betrayal/forgiveness cycle again here, but this time something is different. Dean is in the wrong, and as apologetic as his emotionally stunted ass is capable of being while he’s still in pain. Cas is keeping his distance, not because he’s working on some other plot line, but because Dean’s hurt him - though he hasn’t exactly fucked off and disappeared for several episodes with a handwave explanation - we are still seeing him and he is, in fact, still a Winchester - saving people, hunting things. He’s still there, he’s just trying to avoid Dean - which is what makes this scene from Last Call so deliciously tense:

Again, Cas is the one walking away from Dean in this scene, just as he walked out on him after Dean said that hurtful thing to him in The Rupture. Dean, not wanting him to go but not willing or able to do anything to stop him. In this was it way sort of vaguely reminiscent of the fight he had with Sam way back in 1x11, Scarecrow. (Thanks to Margaritte for recalling the episode.) Essentially, they argue while in the Impala, Dean yells something hurtful at Sam, Sam decides he’s done taking Dean’s shit, gets out of the car and walks away, leaving Dean - who very clearly doesn’t want him to go but does not, can not tell him that - behind. Sound familiar? There may be more to it that I’m just not teasing out, as Dean and Sam were fighting about whether or not they should do as their father told them, Dean lashing out at Sam about being a ‘good son’ - whereas Dean and Cas where more or less fighting over... well... parenting a nephilim with a soul deficiency. There’s definitely a cyclical element there that fits, the son in S1 becoming the father in S15. The fact that the scene in 1x11 took place at the Impala, which was their ‘home’ at the time, and 15x03 took place in the bunker, which is.... well, you get the idea. I do find it incredibly interesting that many of these key scenes seem to take place with Dean at ‘home’ in the Bunker; the only reason he’s even there to answer the FBI phone in the Golden Time clip above is because he’s sat in the Bunker moping around in his pajamas while Sam and Eileen are out.

In short, if the underlying theme for S15 is ‘break the cycle’, as suggested by the symbolism of Felix the snake’s death, then there’s reason to believe (hope) that before the end of the series, Dean and Cas will progress their relationship beyond what we’ve seen so far.

#SPN #spn spoilers #spn meta #spn speculation #spn spec #spn s15 spec #spn s15 #spn s15 spoilers #s15 meta #Destiel #destiel endgame #destiel positive #Destiel breakup #snek #i taught myself how to make gifs for this #symbolism #Ourobouros #MetaCoin

[fallenandthefaithless]

15x10 Spec

15x10′s promo pics have given us all a lot to think about. Especially the one with Sam failing at holding baby. It gave us all a laugh. It also gave me a few thoughts on what might happen in this weeks episode.

First off, the monsters. This episode is clearly supposed to drive home Chuck’s insinuations about the monsters winning. Sam ad Dean appear to be less capable when facing them down and the monsters start to get the upper hand. All of this points to thoughts that we need to defeat the monsters. But this episode also offers a counter argument to this. Garth. 

Garth, Bess and their children are harmless werewolves who live quietly and do nothing but good. And they are not the only ones who live like this. To sum all monsters up as monstrous is therefore incorrect and unjust. We can’t defeat all monsters in one hit because then innocents would be caught up in this. Which drills home that Team Free Will need to find another way. After this episode I’m sure they’ll be searching for that way a lot more in order to spare their monster friends as well as stop Chuck.

The second thought that occurred to me concerns fatherhood. Sam and Dean are about to be confronted with Garth’s happy family life complete with his children. I think this may be what brings Jack up in their thoughts once more. Neither brother have mentioned Jack since 15x04 where Sam insists that they would have hurt people just like the vamp teens parents did for him. Because he was their son and they’d do anything for him. Considering Jack is now back on the board courtesy of Billie the brothers will need to be prepared to accept Jack back into the fold. Sam is probably the one most willing at this point as he was shown to be devastated by Jack’s death in 15x01. Dean mentioned that Jack didn’t deserve to die but has not made any mention of him since. In 15x09 Cas brings Jack up, mentioned his ongoing grief over him and Dean seems genuinely surprised. He didn’t factor Jack at all into what Cas was feeling but I think now, thanks to Cas bringing him up and now Garth’s children, Dean is going to start thinking of Jack more. I think that maybe this episode will be the one where the brothers admit aloud how they want Jack back. Both of them. With Jack’s return only a couple of episodes away, Sam and Dean need to be prepared and willing to take him.

#spn thoughts #spn 15x10 #spn spec #team free will #spn speculation #spn s15 spec #team free dads #garth fitzgerald iv #jack kline #spn spoilers

[clairenatural]

ok this is the end of me being upset. ur regularly scheduled destiel content is returning. i can’t believe this episode made it clear that dean loves cas back. i cant believe dean sat there and painstakingly carved castiel into the table before taking off to go drag him out of the empty and i cant believe we’re gonna get to see dean cradle cas’ face next week :)

#clown nose doesn't come off till the 15x20 credits close babey!!! #destiel #supernatural #15x19 #s15 #spn spoilers #spn spec

[theheartchoice]

post-15.19 coda  |  dean/cas  |  dean + sam  |  1.3k  |  ao3 

"We're all set here."

Dean hums as Sam brushes his hands together in his periphery. He didn't even realise they were so close to finishing the set up. 

"Now it's just a matter of timing." 

Timing. Cas had the worst timing. Saying something like that at a time like that, leaving Dean with more questions than answers. 

"Dean?" 

"..Huh?" 

"You okay? You spaced-out, for a minute there." 

"Yeah, I'm just—" he waves a hand around, trying and failing to capture what he's feeling. 

"Look, about Jack," Sam steps closer, voice dipping to a tone that means sympathy and support, the kind that gets a work out on a case. "I know things with you two have always been kind of complicated, and I can imagine that him not bringing Cas back has only made things harder—" 

"—Woah, Sam. No. I get it—really. He's hands off, y'know? Probably for the best. Meddling was Chuck's problem, it's how everything got so screwed up in the first place." Not that he's palming all his mistakes off on bad writing, but still. Jack not intervening is a good thing, in a way. 

"Yeah, I guess. Makes you wonder if he might not condone what we're doing here, you know?" 

Dean hums again. "But you'd think if he let anyone have one more get-out-of-jail-free card it'd be Cas. Who knows, maybe Jack's rootin' for us."

"Yeah, maybe," Sam chuckles. "Don't worry. It's gonna work."

That's sort of what Dean's worried about. 

"You seem nervous."

Maybe Sam could help. 

"You sure you're okay?" 

"I just—" how does he even phrase it? "When Cas was—I mean, before he saved me, he.. said some stuff." 

"What kind of stuff?" 

"Big stuff. Deathbed confession, type-stuff." 

"Confession? What did he—" and realisation dawns on Sam, because of-fucking-course it does. "Oh."

No use hiding it now. "Yeah, 'oh'."

"So. He finally told you." 

Wait what? "What d'you mean finally?" 

"Dean." And there's so much in just that one word. "Cas has been in love with you for.. well, I don't know how long, exactly. A while, I think. Years." 

Dean's lungs empty in a rush. "Okay, see, that's the thing: he's an Angel, Sam."

"Yeah, I kinda picked up on that."

Dean sends him a bitch face but Sam just smiles. "Tha—it's a human emotion. Angels don'—they can't feel that way." Right?

"Serafina did."

"Pretty sure she and Adam from the freakin' Garden of Eden knew each other for more than a few years. More like eons." 

"Since when does time determine love?" Sam gets a look Dean remembers from when he'd talk about the past, about Jess. Probably not something he wants to bring up right now, seeing as how Eileen's right outside. 

"Cas is my best friend, but he's literally older than the world." 

"So it's an age-thing?" 

"Wh—? No!" Dean takes a deep breath, to steady himself, steady his train of thought. "I know Cas is an Angel, okay? I mean, there's the mojo, and the not-sleeping, and he saw the first fish crawl outta the ocean—the whole nine. That's not what's botherin' me." Sam waits patiently. "I know he cares. I just don't know if.." If he feels the same way I do. "If he really feels the way he thinks he does. About me, about love, an'.." Dean swallows. "Love."

For all his tact in handling witnesses during a case (people who're at their most vulnerable), Sam fucking snickers. 

Dean glares daggers; half-hurt, half not surprised because isn't that how little brothers are supposed to act? They laugh at their sibling's relationship troubles? But Sam gets it, because his face softens. 

"Dean. Maybe Angels do feel things differently from Humans. In fact, it's pretty much guaranteed. But Cas has always been different from the rest of them. And I've been here over the years, you know. I've seen it." 

"Seen what?" 

"The way he looks at you. And I never thought it was some big secret, I mean—you saw it too! And you looked at him the same way." 

"Did not!" Sam gives him that: c'mon Dean you can't fool me here face, and he let's it go. Sam's probably not wrong. 

"What did you say? After he told you."

"I.." Nothing. He told Cas—begged him not to do it that way—but everything was happening so fast, and there was a decade's worth of doubt stopping Cas' words—those three huge words—from sinking in. Even after, as everything finally hit him and he curled up on the dungeon floor and cried his freakin' eyes out, even then, even now, he still doesn't know what he would've said if he had the moment again. "There was no time."

Sam nods. "Well, now there is. You guys can talk—"

"—What if I'm right?" Sam's brow crinkles at that. "I mean, no offence Sam, but I know him better than you do. What if.. what Cas feels, is.." he trails off, unable to get the words out. 

"..Are you worried he's not in love with you, or that he is?" 

One sounds better than the other. Both sound kinda terrifying. 

Sam sighs, and it's almost pitiful.

"I don't wanna lose him." As a friend, most of all. Because if Cas misunderstood the whole love-confession thing being for non-brotherly love then Dean won't say anything, obviously, but it'll hurt. Cas will be back but things will be different—worse actually, because that whole thing with The Empty made him confront his own feelings (or stop suppressing them, at least). Cas isn't just a friend to him, and it's not familial either. But can they go back to being 'just friends' after everything? Can Dean? 

"Dean, no matter what happens you're not going to lose him. Just look at everything the two of you have already been through."

Now there's a distracting and somewhat depressing train of thought. Apocalyptic times can't tear them apart, not for good, and even death is nothing new. It would be a painful joke of cosmic proportions if the thing that actually ruins their friendship is love. 

"Do you love him?" Dean's head snaps up to meet Sam's eyes. "Are you in love with Cas?" 

Eileen returns before he can think of a way to deflect, cutting off anymore talk about it. 

She gestures to Sam and he tells Dean, "It's time. You ready?" 

Dean's not sure what he would've said but the truth is best kept for Cas' ears anyway. And Sam's right. They have time. They can talk, and hopefully they'll figure things out and where they stand with as little heartache as possible. There's no avoiding it, not now, not after everything. He nods, steeling his resolve. "Yeah. I'm ready." 

At least he knows Chuck is no longer pulling their strings and that whatever happens from here on out it really is just him and Cas. The thought never even crossed his mind that Cas' confession might be Chuck's doing. Chuck didn't care enough about him to bother, and besides: Cas was always the rebel against God's story.

Dean steps over the threshold of painted sigils, taking his place in the centre of the circle. As Sam starts chanting he feels his worry over the truth of Cas' words ebb away and hope flow in to supplant it. The phantom scar of a handprint on his shoulder from when Cas rescued from Hell seems to flare to life and brand itself back into Dean's flesh, and the only thing going through his mind is: what if Cas really is in love with me? He smiles at the thought. 

As the glowing portal tears into existence before him he remembers something else Cas said to him, back when Dean was questioning his whole reality. Cas was steadfast and sincere as ever as he held Dean's eye and told him that they were real. And for the first time Dean knows that to be true. He feels it in his very soul. 

With his hand raised he moves towards the portal and braces for some kind of inter-dimensional shift, but he's not scared. This is the right thing to do, for both of them. 

Time to grip an Angel tight and raise him from perdition. 

#spn 15x19 #coda 15x19 #destiel ficlet #s15 spec #profoundnet #myficlets #s15 codas

[sortasirius]

Sometimes I literally cannot believe that y’all want to hear anything I say lmao but here we go.

First things first, all of this is based on my own speculation for Cas being taken by the Empty at the end of 15x18.  I think it’s pretty clear from the promos and from what we’ve seen so far in the season (”see you soon”).  That Cas’ Empty deal is going to come to fruition.  15x18 makes the most sense since Jensen and Misha talked about how they filmed a very emotional scene at the end of 18 at VegasCon this year, so that’s what I’m basing my assumptions on.

Okay, so, let’s say Cas gets taken in 18.  What do we know about the Empty?

So Cas is trapped in the Empty, forced to relive his worst memories, his regrets. 

This is why I freaked out over this:

Because we know that scene 28 in 20 is filmed in the barn

And I’ve been yelling about scene 28 in 20 since the QOTDs were posted

A scene that takes three days to shoot?  And we know that it’s shot in a barn that looks nearly identical to the barn in 4x10 (they aren’t the same barn, but they look damn close), the episode where grace and the loss of grace is first mentioned, the first mention of a fallen angel, where Cas is first saved from Allistair by Dean.

All this to say, my theory is that Dean and Sam somehow travel to the Empty to break Cas out, and find him trapped in his own worst memories.  *Somehow* he breaks out of his loop (I’m thinking something similar to Dean in 14x10, where Michael put him in Rocky’s Bar with Pamela).  Now if we’re going into some clowning spec, I think that Dean specifically helps him break out of the loop, showing him that he has nothing to regret from his time on earth, from his time with Dean.  That barn, it’s similarities not only to the barn 4x10, but also to the barn in 4x01 are striking to me, especially with that line from Ruby about reliving regrets.  The Night We Met, if you will.

Some quotes that have become more and more interesting to me as we get closer to this, that speak about Dean and Cas specifically, what their relationship is and always has been:

“You see he has this weakness.  He likes you.”

“When Castiel first laid a hand on you in Hell he was lost!”

“I know what you hate, I know who you love...there is nothing for you back there.”

“I need to say something-”

“You don’t have to say it...I heard your prayer.”

We’ve seen over and over this season, especially in 15x15, that we’re going to be getting a lot of callbacks to seasons past, and be told things retroactively.

This season is about truth, choice, overcoming anger, forgiveness, growth,  All of those things are, I think, going to be vital to breaking Cas out of the Empty.  Sam and Dean may get to him, but it must be his choice to leave.

Additionally (last thing I promise), let’s talk a little about the state of Cas’ grace.  I see two ways forward: either Cas loses his grace before he goes to the Empty and is fully human (which would change the arc of my spec above a little bit, as he may not be fully asleep if he is human when he gets to the Empty, but generally I think it would still be the same.  OR, he has some of his grace left when he gets there, and must make the choice to stay a dead angel or rip out his grace and become human to escape.  Either way, I think Cas will escape the Empty as a human.  Where he goes from there I’m not sure. 

Cas has been vital to the arc of this season.  And he is vital to Dean’s own happiness.  We’ve seen countless times how Dean loses it when Cas dies and this will be no different.  They will do anything they can to get Cas from the Empty not only because they’re family, but because Dean won’t rest until he gets him back, I’m sure of it.

#spn #lilly answers #anonymous #destiel #spn s15 spec #my meta

[biceratops7]

Holy fucking shit y’all I’m literally about to shit bricks...

Did they

Just fucking finally

Let Castiel

Cry??!

And Dean fucking looks like this?!!!

Alright you guys buckle the FUCK UP cause I am GOING to enjoy my moments of wishful shippy speculation before the crushing disappointment inevitably settles in.

#destiel #supernatural #spn #castiel #dean winchester #spn promo #s15 promo #castiel crying #speculation #spec #meta #biceratops #the empty #the empty deal

[ltleflrt]

Wild Speculation Time!

I’ve been following the gnostic stuff from some meta folks, and while I think their ideas are compelling and interesting, I’m only barely able to grasp the esoterica of it all.  So they may look at my speculations and go Yup That’s It! Or I may be completely out in left field (and not unhappy to be wrong lol).  But I have thoughts.

So Rowena is now Queen of Hell.  She seems to be really enjoying herself down there, with the demons fawning over her, and the parties, and all that jazz.  Basically eternal punishment is now kissing her toes lol

What does this mean for Heaven though?  I’ve seen a lot of hypothesizing that Jack or Castiel will end up ruling there, but I just can’t see it for them. 

Jack is a child who needs to be allowed to live a full life.  He’s been trying to save the world since he was born, but just like Sam and Dean, he shouldn’t have to do that.  He should be allowed to be normal.

Castiel flubbed his one attempt at ruling Heaven so badly that he’s been running from the responsibility ever since.  Hannah talked him into it again, and it went better that time, but it was still a sense of duty that put him there.  And when he found out Heaven was failing, he turned to Gabriel to see if he would take up the mantle, and obviously that can’t happen now. 

I think it’s going to be Michael and Adam, together.  Now that Michael has Adam with him, he’s different.  Softer, calmer, and so dang fond of Adam.  I think their partnership could mean a better Heaven.  One where the angels are there to care for it and its inhabitants, but with Adam giving insight on what humans would actually want out of their afterlife experience.  Unlock the doors, knock down some walls to create more shared spaces, etc.  Why can only soulmates share a heaven?  Why not families and friends too?  Why can’t they pop in and visit each other whenever they want?�� Or even better, what if they’re allowed to make new memories together instead of reliving old ones?  (I stopped going to church at 13, but the religion I grew up in presented Heaven as one big happy picnic where we could all just hang out and love each other while enjoying luxuries that no one had to work for, and I think that would be cool for the SPN universe.)

Having Midam ruling Heaven would be a nice parallel to Rowena in Hell.  Friends/Family/Allies who would let Sam and Dean come and go as they pleased.

Side note, while I would not like to see it, I can imagine Castiel becoming ruler of the empty.  Although what I’d really like is to have the sleeping angels sent to heaven, the sleeping demons sent to hell (and Rowena giving them the opportunity to earn their way into heaven), and the Empty being allowed to go back to sleep for eternity after it re-absorbs Chuckmara. 

I have no idea what they’ll do with Purgatory.  I’d like to see it dissolved completely, but we’ll see if they have time to address it again.

That leaves Death, and I’m side-eying everyone in TFW 2.0 for that job right now.  Although I’d like it to be Dean.  He’s got experience with it.  As Death he could visit all the realms.  I saw a still of him and Sam eating some kind of desert, and I remember how the first Death loved crappy junk food so much.  He was sort of a cosmic mentor to Dean in some ways, and it would be neat to see Dean take up his mantle and flit around all of existence trying all the burgers and pies.  But I can also see Castiel having to take that job now.

I dunno.  We’ll see!  TWO MORE EPISODES!  I am excited!

#spn spoilers #spn spec #wild speculation time #spn s15 #spn s15 spec

[daughter-of-the-rain-and-snow]

About purgatory

For context: a few days (it could have been weeks tbh I've been all over the place and I dunno anymore what day we're in) I saw a post I think by @mittensmorgul (if I'm mistaken I'm sorry Mittens <3) about Dean needing to remember purgatory (long story short, so he can remember how pure it was and how Chuck's shenanigans didn't work there since it's monster land and his dumpster, and how Dean was set on finding Cas and how much all of that was real)

My brain exhausted, but nagging me to realize something: Sammy's vision provided by Chuck (or the wound.. same thing really) has Benny right? But no Cas. While awesome Becky (and the whole fandom tbh) was in ep 15x04 team "where's the angel" I can't help but wonder.. that Cas absence in Sam's vision is also significant.

Cause think about it, guys.. in all of the AUs we've only seen Cas in one: Apocalyptic World, cause Dean and Sam haven't been born in that world (the other aus resemble a lot of purgatory, a dumpster of monsters: "The bad place" and the world of the tentacles of romantic angst)..

Now you may argue 'but we've seen Cas in "The End" "Lebanon" etc, but.. those were aus or just reshaping reality?

Benny saying Dean "I'll see you in the other side" is for us to remember the original time Benny said that to Dean: while stuck in purgatory ALONGSIDE CAS (and Cas leaving Dean cause he wanted to do penitence)

All of this to say that the theory of "Cas can't be controlled by Chuck/ Cas is the blindspot tied everything up perfectly!

I hope this post makes any sense and if someone has been talking about this and I haven't seen it.. I'm sorry my exhausted ass haven't had time for much lmaooooooo

#spn s15 spec #spn 15x04 #atomic monsters #mentions of #spn s8