#anon if you think it invalidates the argument then it invalidates the argument for you

[sadaveniren]

.

#anon if you think it invalidates the argument then it invalidates the argument for you #as you said I’m not here to try and convince you #and you should not be here to try to convince me or others #if you think it invalidates it then it does #🤷🏼‍♀️ #I don’t think it does because to me none of this MATTERS at this point #nothing done now can convince me she gave birth and therefore to me it doesn’t matter if Louis plays the bestest dad in the world #but its okay if that’s what you’ve decided it means #there are plenty of people in fandom who believe Louis is actively stepping into the role of father even though he isn’t biologically #you really nailed it perfectly by saying weighing both sides and deciding #if this is you weighing both sides and seeing it one way then tbh you’re smarter than at least 3/4 of the fandom as a whole #I truly think if that is your conclusion then it’s valid and it’s 100% something you can reason with

[not-poignant]

I find Caleb's 'omega envy' really interesting. Is he aware that he has it? And does he know that he's envying a designation that is oppressed? I can't help but feel like it's similar to privileged white people who are jealous of minorities because they've never actually experience what being a member of that minority group actually entails.

Like if Caleb was actually an omega, I highly doubt he'd have the same amount of bodily autonomy or a respectable job he enjoys. To me Caleb comes across as someone who is lacking the self awareness to acknowledge the privileges he has and how fortunate he is to have been born a beta in a society that treats alphas and betas better than omegas.

Idk if I'm making any sense with this but even the way he treats Efnisien. It's like Caleb is completely unaware that Efnisien as an omega is the unfortunate one here, not Caleb.

Whewz sorry for the rant.

Hi anon!

I feel like you might be new to omegaverse. Generally speaking, and very broadly across every omegaverse story, the alpha/beta/omega designations are considered gender designations. They're often called 'secondary genders.' And by and large, for over 20 years, they are considered either tropey or subversive explorations of gender, what makes gender and transness. (Sometimes it's just an excuse for knotting though, let's be real).

It's possible you've only read Underline the Red and not Underline the Black because omegaverse is also defined as a gender in Underline the Black here:

"It's the appendix [rutting] of the secondary genders."

In that sense, Faber's (I think you mean Faber, and not Caleb) omega envy is a gender comparison, or a trans metaphor, and not a race metaphor (especially since races do exist in the Hillview universe, and omega/beta/alpha designations aren't considered ethnicities, because people of all races can be these secondary gender designations and experience what Faber's experiencing too.)

The comparison that's more apt therefore is when someone who is AMAB knows/feels that they are a woman. Women are generally oppressed and live in misogynistic societies, and trans women do sometimes get challenged along the axis of 'why would you want to be a woman' (they don't have a choice, is the thing, they're trans) or 'how can you be a woman when you can never understand our oppression' (a giant TERF red flag, and absolutely concern trolling, because trans women are some of the most oppressed people in the world).

Like if Caleb [Faber]* was actually an omega, I highly doubt he'd have the same amount of bodily autonomy or a respectable job he enjoys.

He wouldn't. He knows that. He's definitely aware that he has omega envy, and he's ashamed of it actually for the reasons you're pointing out (though along a gender axis, and not a race one). Underline the Red only has two chapters up on AO3 and it's very early days re: what we know about Faber's deeper thoughts regarding this issue. But he knows better than most how many omegas get treated because he works at Hillview.

To me Caleb [Faber] comes across as someone who is lacking the self awareness to acknowledge the privileges he has and how fortunate he is to have been born a beta in a society that treats alphas and betas better than omegas.

This just isn't how being trans works.

A trans woman can't go 'well I'm going to remind myself of all the privileges I've had being raised as a man so I'll go back to feeling grateful for being a man (even though I'm a woman and very few people respect that.)' I mean they can do this, but it's not exactly a very gender affirming thing to do, y'know?

It's like when people say that nonbinary folks who are "assigned gender passing" (i.e. they appear to be the gender that they were assigned at birth) have 'privilege' over nonbinary people that aren't. That's somewhat true in specific situations, but what it actually means is the 24/7 experience of having your gender constantly disrespected, and living in a world where affirmation almost never exists except among a very closed knit group of people. So yes, there's some privilege in some settings, but in the day-to-day, there's also a great amount of ongoing oppression that continues.

Also, as a trans person, I know I'm writing a trans metaphor, because I'm using a trope system (omegaverse) that is famously used to explore gender, and because I literally called it a gender system in my story, which is how you know it's about gender, and not race.

Within the Hillview and omegaverse universes, people of colour can experience this, it's not exclusive to white people. It doesn't belong to white people. It's about gender, which happens to everyone.

Idk if I'm making any sense with this but even the way he treats Efnisien. It's like Caleb [Faber] is completely unaware that Efnisien as an omega is the unfortunate one here, not Caleb [Faber].

I don't think... you've read this story all the way through? Or have only read the first few chapters before stopping. So I'll be clear even though it might be a spoiler for you, anon, Efnisien isn't an omega. He's an alpha. Efnisien is unfortunate because he's suffered a lifetime of abuse and medical experimentation, and for many other reasons, not least that he still experiences some omega oppression (along with transphobia), but Efnisien's not an omega.

*Edit to quotes added for clarity.

#asks and answers #underline the rainbow #underline the black #underline the red #faber castle #like you can continue to personally make it about race anon #but just be wary because some of your arguments come dangerously close to being #outright transphobic #so if you hear from the author that the story's about gender #and the story says it's about gender #and the term 'omega envy' literally parallels the term #'gender envy' or 'penis envy' etc. or other *gendered terms* #and the trope is famously about gender #your arguments start to parrot TERF arguments that invalidate trans people #especially trans women #and i won't tolerate that here #like i'll answer this ask because i just don't think you've read omegaverse before #and i don't think you've read all of underline the black #and are clearly missing some information about efnisien being an alpha in UtB #but now that you know #you know

[ofbreathandflame]

I think the best argument against "He didnt have a choice" ( i think this is why choice is rhysands favorite word 🥴) is you're right, he didn't. The AUTHOR did. Sjm had a choice and still she went for the worst and more illogical one. She still decides to put the women in her series under awful situations without further consequences. I really dislike phrases like "my characters wanted me to write them that way" or "my characters lead the story". Im always yes this is a romantic way to see the writing process but ill never forget this author who said "my characters do whatever the hell I want them to do".

hi anon!!!! (sorry this is a super old anon that i actually finished writing a while ago sorry nonny💙. can’t think of anything to say so im just posting old stuff in my drafts today 🫶🏾)

i agree! its a problem on multiple different levels. for one, sjm often relies on telling the audience what we should get out of a scene, instead of what allowing us to form our own takeaways. its a very hand-holding type of storytelling; in consequence, the 'evidence' being derived is often contradictory to actual events. like the story can argue that "change is slow," and thats why illyria and the con persist, but that statement is consistently proven to be incorrect.

lets look at how invalid the idea of 'change is slow is'

in one year - feyre is able to become high lady, effectively creating an entirely new governing system, in which, a high lord can give a person absolute power of the court (remember - what feyre and rhysand say is 'law'). there is no process, no objection, or any fear of reprimand. rhys doesn't even have to consult his second-in-command. not only that - but feyre is also allowed power over the court of nightmares, which politically, is supposedly an entirely different governing state. again - keir and devlon are not consulted about this.

it took six months to produce to first illyrian female warrior to complete the rite in history. in the span of six months - emerie completes the rite. thats more illyrian women than rhys, az, and cass's entire 300-400 year reign.

it takes feyre less than a month to completely cause an entire court to fall - yet regimes such as tam's father, beron, and amarantha somehow persisted as long as they despite them being canonically worse rulers. even - and i mean even - if tamlin was the worst leader to have ever walked this earth, it would still take more than three to four weeks. and factoring in that this is a population of immortal, canonically 'slow-to-change' individuals.......

like - how slow can the change actually be? how can the book possibly explain how such drastic changes happen from book to book but not in 400 years? how come there have been no illyrian women in the army or in the rite if cassian and rhys have earnestly been working with the females in illyria? even the few moments we see them at illyria, they still seem to be at a rudimentary level; there's no established female training areas, no veteran trainees, no consequences for breaking the law in regards to the females...there's nothing that suggests any actual measures have been taken.

that's just one example of 'canon' statements acting in contradiction the previously established pieces of information. more - its a consistent pattern of contradiction in regards to certain characters. its their natural characterization acting against the forced narrative voice.

and this makes it problem on mulitiple fronts.

and even more, off the point you made about the women in her stories - i think there needs to be a larger conversation had about the patterns of female violence in these books; specifically the role that female violence plays in establishing sexual tension and relationships in general. or...the amount of times the female protagonist has to undergo some extreme form of humiliation at the behest of future love interest; there's an utter lack of this with the men.

sjm is a very intentional author - these problems exist because of how intentional she is as a writer. i know exactly the function of each scene, exactly what emotion the she wants me to feel. this is not because these characters are written well, but because we are often just told it. feyre can 'express' disdain for rhysand'a actions, but she often undermines her own inner thoughts about the issue. feyre’s inner thoughts are often abuse apologist 101 and in retrospect it’s kind of painful the way she consistently makes excuses for rhys, even when it’s her well-being being threatened and undermined. and that’s honestly bc sjm’s narrative voice supersedes the natural characterization of her characters. sjm doesn’t know how to organically create conflict between characters she actually likes bc she doesn’t know how to write conflict. it’s a consistent pattern in her series and it’s why all the villains suck and all battles ultimately fall flat.

but the problem becomes a bit broader (i.e. this is a larger issue in publishing and literary crit). some of the arguments that i see often, and that i referenced in my last post are these:

"why read this this book if you don't like the characters?" "why continue to read the book if you don't like it?" "this is a book about fairy porn - why are you analyzing it." "i read for fun." (this is not a bad statement, but it becomes troublesome in the context i will explain)

the commonality between these statements is that they are avoidant. often, they are employed when people can't explain away the amounting problems in the series, so they avoid the conversation.

because for one, you should never (and I means NEVER) say that a piece of literature should not be analyzed. or that fantasy negates interrogation into harmful themes. that’s just anti intellectual nonsense. second, if we’re arguing about real world issues bc of the book; of if your argument is that tamlin is abusive bc he did abusive things, then you literally can’t make this argument. the whole point of moving from tam is bc he was…abusive. abuse is not a fantasy. regardless of what the author intends, if a character is abusive or does absuive things, we should be looking at that.

look…if you are defending rhys using the logic the book establishes please have it. but the moment you implicate real-world values into this story, you’ve got to see it to the end. the same goes for the series as a whole: the second maf decided to integrate a ‘domestic violence plot lines’ specifically referring to behaviors as ‘red flags’ it immediately kind of gave up the kind of distance the fantasy romance genre usually gives to such issues.

#anti sjm #anti rhysand #anti tamlin #anti acosf #anti feysand #anti anti intellectualism #anti feyre

[catofoldstones]

j0ns@ isnt 100% to me but stans disbelieving in the ashford tourney interpretations now because it didnt fit what they wanted makes me lol now its invalid by having robert arryn when its not supposed to be a 100% recreation, harrold harryn is too much coincidence that it signals sans@'s suitors ,saying the final targaryen suitor died is coping because like Valarr Targaryen, jon also just died the difference is he'll get resurrected

my favourite excuse is "well nobody married lady ashford" well duh its a tourney,it might not even happen in a romantic light more for desperate political reasons the denial is hysterical

Hi anon,

I understand their need to constantly be “debunking” the theory because how dare Sansa have a parallel in another book and thereby be an important character in the series as a whole😤

I don’t think Robert Arryn is the chink in the armour they think he is. With all of Sansa’s previous suitors & Harry, there have been concrete plots to get her married to them. She was officially betrothed to Joffrey (the Baratheon suitor) before the Tyrells brought in Willas (the Tyrell suitor) and were actively planning to spirit her away to Highgarden right under the Lannisters’ noses, only for them to catch wind of the plan (if it can even be put that way) and forcefully get Sansa married to Tyrion (the Lannister suitor). As for Harry, Baelish’s northern plan comes into play which rests on the heels of Sansa getting married to Harry. Not to mention Hardyng is a pretty unknown House to just throw in, dontcha think?

Lysa brings up Sweetrobin in passing, with no plan or even an actual intention to marry them. This is literally never brought up again when Lysa is alive, or even after. The only one repeating any similar sentiment is Sweetrobin himself, who has a crush on Sansa but clearly doesn’t know what it means. So should we take Sweetrobin as a valid suitor? I mean, do crushes count? Because then why not include a whole legion of other Westerosi men who are interested in Sansa and make it a watertight argument. Baelish absolutely wants to marry Sansa, he even asked Cersei for Sansa’s hand in marriage, why isn’t he included? “Because…” yeah you’re there. My point is, the arguments against Baelish & SR are both strong but take a step back to what they have in common, Sansa’s story is leading somewhere else and thematically neither of them fit. One is less serious than the other & thats SR. Be fr with your SR arguments jesus.

Moreover, the Ashford theory and Sansa’s suitors don’t have to be perfect analogues of each other. Hell, we know nothing about Lady Ashford except that she’s 13 and involved in a tourney that was disrupted, and that Sansa is 13 and involved in a tourney that will be disrupted. Man, does this girl have to be named Pansa Ptark now for it to be a valid parallel? Why does George even bother naming his books, he should start calling them the war of the roses and be done with it. Why are we even reading political fiction, let’s just open today’s newspaper. Tf.

And I don’t think I can add anything to the Jon - Targaryen suitor theories that hasn’t been proposed + your points too. We consider R + L = J to be true, first and foremost. The “white guardian”, “dark hair” “the Targaryen suitor being dead” etc etc. In the same vein as the argument above, does he need to be named Jonnel/Jonos now to be taken seriously? Well, he is in another parallel but even that is “reaching” so what can I say? 🤷‍♀️ They’re not going to see what they don’t want to see, but, like you said, watching them jump through hoops and perform mental gymnastics and open a whole circus in the process is truly hilarious lol.

You do bring up an excellent argument, anon, that all of Sansa’s previous suitors have been for her claim to the North, so her marriage with Jon might also be for political reasons. However, the slight exception of Joffrey who was a King in his own right (lmao) exists; which again sort of foils Jon and his actual claim to the iron throne. So I feel that while a political marriage is totally on the cards (solves one too many problems for my liking 😤), Sansa might marry him out of love considering her theme of independence and not-marrying-for-claim. But who am I to say 🤷‍♂️

Lastly, nobody crowned Lady Ashford the queen of love and beauty so Sansa isn’t marrying anyone is sort of funny. Well, Loras gave Sansa a red rose amongst all the young maidens present there, are they a foreshadowed endgame pairing now? Also, how does one come up with Sansa is gonna end up as Lady of the Vale by marrying HH and Sansa is going to end up alone in the same breath?

#ashford tourney #sansa stark #jon snow #jonsa #asoiaf #hedge knight #also how are y’all a-ok with Sansa marrying SR but not Jon because eww incest #she’s equally related to both of them #long post #lol #can I ever shut up? #anon asks t

[burst-of-iridescent]

Hello! Zutarians like you are the reason why I am moving further away from Zutara. the way you talk rudely to people who disagree with you is really upsetting. The anon who wrote to you (or several anons) did not show rudeness and spoke quite politely, but you literally immediately started being rude, talking arrogantly and familiarly. the fact that someone does not agree with you does not mean that you need to talk rudely, arrogantly or point out mistakes in English to people (it may come as a shock to you, but a lot of young people do not have the opportunity to get a good education and do not have the opportunity to know English perfectly, especially if it is not their native language). thank you, you completely ruined zutara for me.

do you think it's polite to come into someone's inbox just to mock an edit they spent a lot of time and effort on, which they tagged appropriately for the express purpose of making sure no one who enjoyed kat.aang would see it? do you think it's polite to then follow up with an unasked-for essay in response, one that misappropriates the legitimate issues faced by women of colour to tear down a fictional ship? do you think it's polite to invalidate the racial identity of an actual woman of colour just because she doesn't agree with your opinions? do you think it's polite to keep anonymously bombarding strangers you don't know online with condescending, bad-faith arguments that don't take into account anything they're trying to say?

do you think that perhaps, just perhaps, after dealing with all of that for 24 hours straight, people might not feel inclined to be cheery and pleasant to the person responsible for it?

the fact that someone does not agree with you does not mean that you need to talk rudely, arrogantly or point out mistakes in English to people

i couldn't agree more. that is why i am perfectly willing to engage in polite, civil discussion with people who are actually arguing in good-faith, and who don't harass me online or associate with others who do.

i have no idea why you seem to think i criticized that anon's english by the way; if that is from my "pay attention in english class" remark, i was referring to media literacy skills (a fair point to make, considering that's exactly what they came into my asks about). not once did i ever remark on their grammar, spelling, or anything else about their english, nor do i feel the need to.

but if it's more important to you to blame and tone police me instead of the person who's been harassing me for the last two days, then please know that i'm not the one ruining zutara and zutara fandom for you.

you're doing that just fine on your own.

#the discourse #for anyone in my asks confused about what's been happening: this is your summary #this will be my final word on the discourse and i will not entertain any further asks #whether you're pro or anti

[disabled-dragoon]

Hello, would it be ok to use a walking stick/cane or is it not ok? I’d be a part time stick user and it would be used as 1/3 fashion accessory, like how people in 1800 England had sticks, 1/3 hiking stick/pole, and 1/3 part time aid for weight bearing.

for context on the aid part i have flatfoot and overpronation that causes pain in my heel and legs. I do have inserts that help enough and i do stretches and that helps too but I still have (sort of mild?) pain flare ups from time to time that can make me limp.

I’m asking because I don’t want to be ignorant towards ppl who use canes for a disability and I don’t want to come off that way… and I also think walking sticks are cool.

Hm.

This is a bit of a sticky subject.

There's some discourse about this that resurfaces every so often. Half of the argument is "using a cane for fashion/aesthetic purposes invalidates disabled people who actually need to use them" and the other half is "using a cane for fashion/aesthetic purposes might make them more mainstream and therefore accessible in the long run". I'm somewhere in the middle.

Canes are cool, I love mine dearly and I get incredibly excited when I see someone else out and about with one. It helps me feel better about using one, and that is something I have seen other people say as well. I also know that, historically, they have been and still kind of are popular accessories.

But, I have had people assume my cane and its predecessor were just accessories and I haven't been taken seriously because of it. A lot of people also treat them as disposable toys rather than an extension of their user, and I do worry that that attitude might only grow worse if they're seen as being "aesthetic" rather than a tool that many people physically cannot move without.

Also, using a cane when you might not need it, and without taking the proper time to research how to use one, can really damage your body in the long run. And while some canes are designed to be more weight-bearing than others, they're really more of a tool to be used for stability and relieving pressure on painful joints/muscles.

That being said, from a pain standpoint, if you believe it could help your flare ups, then a cane may certainly be something to look into. That is what they are designed for, after all. Just, again, make sure you look into how to use it properly, and maybe try and consult a doctor or a physiotherapist about it.

The fact you're taking the time to ask these questions instead of just plunging in shows me that you are being genuine when you say you don't want to come across as "ignorant", so thank you for being respectful, anon.

Have a good day/evening!

#ask box #canes #disability #disability community #mobility aids #cane user #mobility aid user #fashion

[toaster-trash]

oooh I get it. He speaks the way the guilty speak. The specific way. The one you can be sure of. You know this. He has the vibes, right? The pedo vibes. The clear, evident, quantifiable vibes of a pedophile which are obvious to anyone who has two brain cells. And it's upon vibes that we judge one's guilt and innocence. And also anyone can do it, you don't need to have any kind of training and understanding of law and context. And again, the culture that condemned him was not horrifyingly bigoted to the extent that it invalidates any judgement cast.

Yes, purity culture. You're doing it right now. You're twisting yourself into knots desperately grasping for straws because a gay man gives you weird vibes and you heard a rumor he might have done something. You're playing into every groomer stereotype of LGBTQ people, you're doing republicans' and tories' and nazis' jobs for them. All because you're super-duper for-sure certain the guy was skeevy and weird and gross. And you have to be correct, right? Because you're a good person, as you know, and you wouldn't be doing wrong stuff, right?

So congrats. And I mean... look at these anons who agree with you. For surely it's not just the same one weirdo who has the same ill obsession with purity as you. And before you accuse me of going anon as well - yeah. Because otherwise you'd block me, and then you'd get to entertain and spread these noxious ideas unchallenged.

And fyi, purity culture dipshits are ALWAYS one of two things: either clueless dogshit tweens like you who are desperate to get one over the olds because tiktok has colonized your brains with corporate advert acceptability standards, or actual literal groomer pedophiles taking advantage of the fact that purity circles are full of easily manipulated morons and passing themselves off as "one of the safe, good, antishipper adults".

Fuck right off with all of every one of those things, clownlord. God you terf island fuckers are the abusive, toxic, vile fucking same.

IM LITERALTPISSING MYSELF EN I CANT DO THIS OH MY GOD WHY AM I ON THIS WESBITE I CANT DO THIS SHIT ANYMORE I can’t oh my days

Nahh guys solid proof in a court of law is just a silly rumour guys. Just a silly little rumour guys just a silly little rumour. A man constantly backtracking on everything he says and does and putting up arguments for the sake of trying to sound smart and then immediately getting called out and then backtracking with no solid argument against what he just said is just normal guy things to do when being in trial for touching little boys. Real.

Bro can’t decide whether he’s guilty or not either, is he guilty but not really because we’re only saying he’s wrong bc purity culture, or is he not guilty and we’re only saying he is because he has Evil Gay Man Voice………….. and Evil Gay Man Voice is what’s making us think he’s a nonce……….

@petricharme come here I can’t do this shit I’m logging off I can’t oh my days MY AGE HAS CHANGED AGAIN first I’m in my 20s and now I’m a tween oh my days I’m all over the show that’s crazy AND I’M A TERF that’s crazy I didn’t know I could be a tranny and a terf that’s mad. I mean that’s so real. I hate transgender people……. And the gays………. Fucking faggots…… all of them are pedophiles I can tell bc Evil Gay Man Voice👎👎👎👎

Wilde:

#fuck me I’m crying that made my wee evening so it did #asks #Oscar Wilde

[irithnova]

I understand that you've been through a lot as a diaspora and you've made tons of effort to learn more about Filipino culture but you've been using the As a POC and As a Filipino card throughout this discourse only to reveal that you're Wasian 😕

And I hope you're using the tag "swagapino" sarcastically because I can't help but cringe

*opens up anon for a few hours*

*immediately gets my identity invalidated again*

Yeah mestizas are still Filipino thanks and wasians/half white people are still poc. I am not white passing in the slightest and I was born in the Philippines before you try to use those arguments.

And yes swagapino was ironic if you couldn't fucking tell its a joke term.

Also lol "reveal that you're wasian" I've said I was wasian multiple times on my blog and it's in my fucking bio "🇵🇭🇬🇧"

Hilarious how you sent this once anon was turned back on btw. I think that's what's cringey. Have a shit day 👆

#I'm so close to leaving this fandom I fucking am #Like I'm literally shaking I'm so tired of having my identity be fucking revoked

[momentsofamberclarity]

How exactly does anti-endos and anti-shippers overlap?

Being a system is a disorder, with its own terms, criteria, and so on, which endo-"systems" have decided to use for themselves ignoring the fact that it is a trauma disorder. Any research done "proving endos are real" has been disproven many, MANY, times, and as far as I'm aware there's no proven cases. To be fair in that regard, there are many disorders that started out that way, but the difference here is the person who came up with the term has agreed they were wrong (they were actually a system (DID, i believe) who had just FORGOTTEN about their trauma, having trauma you forgot about is very different from having no trauma at all). So, if not even the research made to prove it can prove it, the person who came up with it agrees with it, and actual research that has been proven goes against it; how is it "gatekeeping rhetoric" to call out the fact those aren't real systems? How is calling out someone faking a disorder somehow anyway similar to... shipping discourse?

Gatekeeping the disorder does happen, to actual systems, but telling people they aren't a system because they don't fit the actual criteria isn't that. That's like getting mad at a site for deleting your post after you broke a rule and calling it "gatekeeping". If you're using something (such as terms made FOR systems), you should follow the criteria for it.

Do you have any proven resources on what makes an endo a system? What the overlap of anti-endos and anti-shippers is?

Like, I'm honestly curious and do wish for some kind of conversation about this, because this is something I've never seen before and it seems very based in personal opinion instead of fact, which is odd since you list it as fact every time. I'm curious on where you got these ideas, basically.

how is it "gatekeeping rhetoric" to call out the fact those aren't real systems?

Anon, I need you to reread your own sentence.

You deciding for yourself who can and who cannot be a system just based on the terminology they identify best with is gatekeeping.

There are many reasons a system may identify with the endogenic label and it is no more your business than asking a traumagenic system the details of their trauma.

And that is the exact same black and white thinking as an anti-shipper telling a proshipper what they can and cannot ship just because they themself don't like/condone/whatever that ship personally.

These are the same anti arguments being made. They both boil down to invalidating someone else, more often than not a complete stranger, on the basis of one's own personal moral ideals of how others should behave or identify themself.

You don't have to agree with a term to respect someone else's right to identify with it. You don't have to ship or even agree with the concept of a ship to support someone else's right to ship it in their own safe space.

#endo safe #proship safe #proshippers please interact #syscourse #okay to reblog #ambers.ask #ambers.res

[fictionkinfessions]

ive been refraining from commenting on the whole gatekeeper situation because its kinda hypocritical to my own stance, which is and has always been, if it bothers you just keep scrolling. but im doing it anyway because people still need to be reminded of this all the time. no judgement, this is the opposite of how social media algorithms encourage you to behave! the hard truth is, you will literally never get enough information from an anonymous ask to know what the sender is like. anything you think you know about the person on the other side of the screen that's not textually present in that ask is a guess you're making- you don't know. you can't know, it's literally just impossible. you can feel however you want about a public post, but commenting on it in that same space only ever leads to shitty pointless arguments and doubling down and it's a whole mess that MPC has to deal with. if something bothers you that much, you can make a post on your own blog about it, but airing it out here while on anon has not ever been productive; and again, i'm only sending THIS ask because i know that many people who use this blog, for any number of reasons including being neurodivergent, need these clear reminders now and again. scroll past posts you don't like! block tags! curate your space! you're allowed to feel angry and uncomfortable but there is literally no reason to remark on it and start arguments. being anonymously told 'no, actually, youre wrong, and while im at it im going to insult you and assume a bunch of things about you' on the internet has never once changed anyone's mind. this is exactly why directly invalidating ask responses and ex-friend/ex-partner vents are both against the rules here. it just causes completely unnecessary drama in a situation where you could have said nothing or kept your grievances private. and if you come here to say something presumptuous and rude, REGARDLESS of your underlying opinion, people are going to get pissed off, regardless of THEIR opinions. tl;dr your actions have consequences, not every situation requires your input, and getting into an argument online is a choice you didn't have to make. i'm not perfect at this (which is why this ask exists) but internalizing it has saved me a hell of a lot of trouble and time.

x

#fictionkinfessions #ableism cw #classism cw #mod party cat #ask response

[crystallinestars]

That one BL ask you received is so funny to me because it would have been so easy to just send you something like "if you don't mind me asking, is there any particular reason you dislike BL?" but no, I guess it was more satisfying to just throw an accusation and then promptly block you 🙃

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I can relate to what you and the other anon said! I fall somewhere on the aroace spectrum and while my policy for this is just to live and let live (and block when I think it's necessary), it's sometimes pretty jarring (and alienating ngl) to see just how often people focus on relationship statuses between two characters when I'm like??? What about the rest of the story??

I think a lot of people live vicariously through their ships, especially if they're starved for representation in media. But that's kinda why I think it's cool when relationship statuses remain unconfirmed or ambiguous, because that way the source material can be elevated with another layer of possible interpretations (I hope that makes sense 😅)

My point is, I see way too many ship wars and like?? Who cares if it's platonic or romantic or something else?? It's all so boring to me because ultimately, what does it matter if it's one or the other? Ultimately it doesn't change the common factor in every scenario: that two characters were written to care about each other / be close, etc.

I also often see people throwing around literary / media analysis terms such as "x-coding" etc. to justify getting on their high horses and feel better about their preferences, when I'm pretty sure that the whole point in literary / media analysis is to find elements which can be linked into a coherent argument to support an INTERPRETATION. I'm sorry if the way I wrote this sounds dismissive, I'm just genuinely confused by this whole debate

Anyway, I'll stop ranting now 😅 Ultimately I just wanted to tell that I also agree with what you said and that I hope you won't get any other unpleasant asks in the future, especially if it's something that could be solved by a "let's agree to disagree"

I would also have appreciated it if the first anon didn't jump to conclusions before blocking me, but it is what it is. I can understand his reaction, though it's a bit immature.

As you pointed out, some people probably live vicariously through their ships, but therein lies the problem. They see their ship as a reflection of themselves, so anything that goes against their ship feels like an attack on themselves. This goes for practically any interest, not just shipping.

My guess is that investing so much of themselves into their ship/interest is what makes it so difficult to accept people's opinions/interpretations that go against theirs. And in the age of the internet where anyone can hide behind anonymity from the safety of their home, it makes is easier to send hate to those whose opinions you don't like.

As for literary/media analysis... I'm not versed in this at all so I can't say much other than I am sick and tired of people tossing those terms around. "Y character is X-coded" has stopped meaning "These are the reasons I think the character is X" and became "These are proof by the original source that the character is X, IT'S CANON". There are instances where characters truly are coded to be something, but in Genshin, 95% of the time there's no coding. Everything people preach is canonically implied is just their headcanon. Mihoyo would be shooting themselves in the foot if they assigned a sexuality to a playable character (I still despise the ship teasing though).

People are just scared of feeling like their interpretations are invalid, so they use anything at their disposal to shut down those who disagree. At least, that's what I think. In the end, I'm just as puzzled as you are about this behavior 😓

Thank you for your rant Anon, it was entertaining to read and think about. I also hope to not have to deal with accusations anymore, but I should be fine since I'm a small blog. Thank you for your support, you are very sweet :)

#Lunaria answers

[mrswint3rs]

This is not an attack, more like a rant of my own but you see how you say everything is okay except for stuff with minors? You understand that some people’s limits are a little bit above just stuff involving minors?

You recognize that repulse you feel, that icky feeling, the feeling that you want to puke and you need to say, need to clarify that stuff with minors is not okay and shouldn’t exist?

Well some people feel the exact same repulse and icky feeling and the NEED to say that it shouldn’t exist when it comes to rape and incest.

I find it mind boggling that people are told to ignore, block and move on… and the same people will FOR SURE tear someone to shreds if someone wrote pedo stuff (rightfully so!) but don’t people understand that for rape and incest it’s the same thing? At least for a good chunk of people?

Like just IMAGINE being told to ignore, block and move on when someone is writing about minors, it’s icky, disgusting.

triggering topic warning!

i understand what you’re saying. (im terrible at wording things but) this is part of my point. Like when I find something involving a minor, no i don’t attack a writer directly or anon message. Yes its vile, but doing that is doing way more harm than good.

A lot of people are arguing the more you do attack, the more they’ll write. I agree. Which is why i think the solution is to block and move on. Im not trying to invalidate.

Attacking a writer for whatever topic it may be only encourages. Anon hate does no good because really who wants to listen to a stranger tell them not to do something?

i cant remember the account, but there was a minor on here who wrote incest about other minors. She got hate especially on anon and what did she do? Replied to the anon with more of what triggered them.

Another thing, like i said in the previous rant, the more you interact with darker content, by sending it, visiting the blog, commenting wtv, the more it will show up on your feed. That’s why ive said to block and move on if you dont want to see the content. The more you do to prevent these things (which for non-con, incest, rape topics and wtv else gets nothing but a community label) the more you’re pulling it towards yourself.

And not to be that person, but those types of fanfics have been around since forever, on ao3 especially. Part of the reason there’s been more lately is because of the complaints.

There’s also people who need to learn to read warnings above fics and on intro pages before interacting. I’ve seen people saying how a fic was super cute until they realized it had incest. I understand that repulsive feeling, but the warnings are there 9/10. Like i said, if they aren’t, there’s easy ways to ask the writer to include them.

It’s all about your own morals. Some people think writing for minors is okay, while you don’t. Some people may enjoy bdsm, and you don’t. Some may find comfort in writing for trauma kinks while you find it gross. Regardless of you find it wrong, the writers may not. In some cases that may mean they need professional help or something, but that isn’t your job to push. Either way, harassment to this degree is childish and does not fix anything. Only draws things out further.

Would we really do half the shit we write about in fanfiction in real life? Like if Leon was real, do you think he would realistically even have children? I don’t think he would. But it is fiction (ik that’s a very common argument but the point still stands) if the character was real, none of this shit would go down irl. This includes vanilla kinks - hard kinks.

Again, I see your point but I hope you understand what i mean by this.

EDIT (again sorry i keep adding on😭)- id like to point out how this anon was respectful even though they’re arguing their views. and not calling REAL people literal slurs and telling people to die for it.

#more yapping #fanfiction #dead dove do not eat #tw.incest #tw dark content

[littlestarofthewest]

hello! before i start i wanna let you know i don’t mean anything hateful by this, it is my genuine curiosity, i’m not trying to be disrespectful, i’m just really interested on your morston opinions. i personally, really am disgusted by the ship. mainly because of the established dynamics in the game between them and the fact that john joined the gang at 12, and arthur would’ve already been 22, and they would’ve never seen each other that way and they basically grew up as brothers, they were raised by the same men, and at the end of the game they even call each other brother. i know you’ve reblogged some morston stuff and i don’t hold anything against you, i really enjoy your writing and you seem like a genuinely cool person, i am just curious.

Hey anon,

I'm going to see this as a question in good faith and will try my best to answer. First of all, there are a lot of posts out there that argue in favor of morston a lot more eloquently than I ever could, but I will try to give you my pov based on what you brought up in your ask.

Personally, I can see John and Arthur both as siblings or as a romantic pairing (obviously not at the same time xD). Many points have been made against it being a romantic relationship, pretty much the ones you made, and as such I have enjoyed fics and art where they are brothers and I even have written some fics that go with that viewpoint. 

Then again, I think there are also valid points to be made for a romantic relationship and arguments that sort of "invalidate" the reasoning behind them being brothers. 

Yes, they have a 10 year age gap. I personally know couples in real life with big age gaps who have perfectly healthy relationships while people close in age are horrible for each other. It's no big leap for me to think that those two characters could be in love and have a great relationship based on that. 

Did they get to know each other when John was 12? Yes. That doesn't mean Arthur perved on him from that day forward. Suggesting that always makes me wonder what weird character traits people put on Arthur. Kids are inherently unsexual. If that doesn't apply to people who hate the ship, then they should probably sort out their own feelings towards children. Fast.

Did they grow up together? While lots of people like to portrait them as brothers from an early age, I think different interpretations are valid as well. Yes, Arthur was 22. He was involved in the criminal activities of the gang and based on how you see the timeline there's a chance he's also been in a romantic relationship. The chances of him even caring about a 12 year old he doesn't know are slim. He could have very well not cared much about John at all until he was old enough to be of any relevance to him. 

I know siblings who have no relationship/love for each other despite growing up in the same house (while also actually being related by blood). So while I don't want to invalidate "found family," I can very well see it not apply here at all. Besides, I find it odd that found family supporters are so dead set on pressing the characters into a nuclear family with Dutch as the dad and Hosea or Mrs. Grimshaw as a second parent while John and Arthur are their sons. Found family is supposed to mean all kinds of different relationships.

And as an add on, while I too enjoy depictions of Arthur holding up a bratty John by his leg or the scruff of his neck, it's complete nonsense. Have people in fandom ever met a 12 year old in real life? A 12 year old boy can very well have the size of an average sized woman (and logically also weigh as much). Of course he's still a kid and needs to be treated and protected as such, but I feel like there is this fandom interpretation that depicts him like a toddler/small child to make any involvement with Arthur later on more scandalous. He was a street kid who managed to get by on his own for a long time. Infantilizing him for outrage is absurd. 

Also, in 4 years in fandom while being in contact with a large amount of morston shippers, I never encountered anyone who shipped them before John was grown up. There might be content like that out there, but I'm not in support of it.

Their established dynamics in the game can be interpreted to anybody's liking. Do they argue like siblings or haze each other to keep positive feelings they can't express without making themselves vulnerable at bay? Does Arthur go out and save John because Hosea tells him to, Abigail asks him to, he loves him like a brother or because he loves him like a romantic interest? Does Arthur tell John to go in the end because he wants to protect his brother or the love of his life? 

Yes, they call each other brothers. Just like other game members call each other brothers. If I remember correctly, Dutch even alternates between brother, son and other things. I don't see it as a fixed term that solely indicates one type of relationship. People in the past have also called each other bachelors and similar terms to not openly admit a homosexual relationship. You can take the term at face value or not.

Like I said, many of these things have been discussed in the past, so I'll skip ahead to what I consider the most important point. It doesn't matter. Nobody needs valid points to justify their ship. There are ships with characters that haven't even met in canon and ships that even cross fandoms. 

I take two characters that I vibe with and since I like romantic stories, I put them into one. I'm also especially fond of AUs which makes canon even less of a factor. 

You being disgusted by the ship is perfectly valid. I don't need to hear good reasons. If that's what you feel then I accept that. The only thing I ask is that other people do the same for me, and especially don't try to actively harm others because of their ships. There's a reason why terms like "your kink isn't my kink, but your kink is okay" and "ship and let ship" were established early on in fandoms. It's healthy for all the parties involved. I interacted a lot with fans who very much disliked morston and blacklisted the hell out of it and we still get along just fine. 

Long story short, people grow up in different circumstances with different experiences, and much likely they will project things onto characters and have a variety of interpretations of canon or simply enjoy making stuff up that isn't there. That's the beauty of fandom. 

I hope that answers your question? And thank you for your interest in another person's pov. Sadly many people in this fandom jumped to conclusions and hatred rather than taking a moment to consider other people's feelings. So kudos for that.

#morston for ts #answered asks #anon asks

[acourtofthought]

Hey, I don't care about ships and personally, I could go either way.

But would you mind reading my 26 page dissertation on elucien, completely cited with page numbers from each additional book?

Also, if you disagree with anything I say, you need to refute it point by point or everything you said was invalid. I have 126 very niche points to make (again, I am neutral in this ship war, please remember and respect that).

If you refute even ONE point OR I just personally don't like your point, I will resort to calling you names because again, I am merely neutral which therefore makes me entirely unbiased in this argument.

Oh! And really quick, while I have you here! I JUST found your blog, but on February 13th at 10pm EST you said you couldn't sleep but I noticed just last week you said you WERE sleeping???? care to explain your constant flip-flopping?

Thanks! Personally, I HATE your blog so thanks for taking the time!

I think I might need to frame this one 😂❤️

The best part is I didn't realize it wasn't an Anon and my eyes just kept getting wider and wider 😂😂😂

#This is exactly how it goes though #Right?

[loveourfuture-c]

I’m sorry for this rant but IT MAKES ME SO UNCOMFORTABLE! When Daxtons say Ben was/is emotionally abusive to Devi just because he has a reciprocating banter with her because people been throwing words that they don’t know NOTHING ABOUT when they really should focus on actual abusive patterns. I am very glad some people have not been abused before and therefore aren’t able to understand what it means but I HAVE! And let me tell you, being emotionally abusive means being scared of being yourself especially around that person, second guessing ur actions in fear they would interpret it wrong and use it against you. You lost yourself and your own motivations and ambitions to fit their own. You even lose the ability to connect with other people around you. Being emotionally abused means being scared of actually walking away because you tick yourself into thinking they need you and the reason they act the way they do is because of their own trauma. Devi at any point during the show has experienced this behavior, in fact, Ben is the person she trusts and is herself around the most aside from Eleanor and Fab.

Ben and Devi’s banter is mutual. If we are calling Ben “abusive” then the same applies to Devi that jokes and “insults” Ben right back. The gag is, is not serious, is not intentionally hurtful and the times that it has been hurtful there’s been apologies because they know when it’s just jokes and banter and when it crosses the line. Ben and Devi are friends first and foremost, are there to confide in the other and Devi feels safe to tell him her insecurities and worries because he understands and motivates her. Devi and Ben’s interactions might not be ideal for YOU, but it’s okay for Devi and Ben. That’s a dynamic they enjoy.

Anon, I’m so sorry you went through all of that. ❤️

I totally agree with everything you said. As someone who experienced intense emotional abuse as well, I went through everything you described. And I find it SUPER upsetting when people try to slap that label (or really any abusive label) on a character simply because they don’t like them or the ship they are a part of. It’s inaccurate and extremely harmful to actual abuse victims.

Are there characters in media who are abusive? Yes, of course. In fact, there is one in nhie: MALCOLM in season 2. His behavior could very accurately be described as abusive.

Ben, while sometimes a dick and often an insecure teenage boy, is definitely not abusive. I’ve seen reddit threads also describe him as “manipulative” simply because he dated other girls when he liked Devi? Which is so dumb because that is such a common media trope (a dumb one but still), that is often used to create conflict. Also Devi dated other people while she liked Ben so that argument is doubly invalid.

It’s like they expect him to be fully emotionally mature and a perfect communicator at 17 years old. Like how dare he be an insecure teenager who is unsure about dating someone who, while he does love a lot, also hurt him a ton in the past.

Ben has never ever exhibited any abusive behavior towards Devi ever. Same goes with Devi. Say it with me folks, teenagers being insecure and dumb doesn’t equal abuse.

Devi and Ben are equals. Even in their peak, “rivals era”. They have always had a basis of respect for each other. Their banter while harsh sometimes was never bullying. It was always an equal exchange.

Also for anyone hung up on the whole “David” nickname. Please please check out these amazing posts by my wonderful and brilliant friend @basiltonpitch. You can find the posts here.

I’m sick and tired of people making up false and misleading statements about Ben and Benvi. Just say it isn’t your thing and move on.

Thank you for sending this to me anon, I 100 percent agree with you. Ben and Devi have a wonderful foundation to have a loving and healthy relationship. They get each other in a way no one else does, they are each others person.

#never have i ever #kay answers #RANT #I’ve seen this sentiment mainly on Reddit #but also here. #stop calling people abusive because you don’t understand how banter works #ben gross #devi vishwakumar #benvi #this got really long and more of a rant but it just makes me #upset

[crippled-peeper]

also like... no amount of bitching about mentally ill people is going to fix your spine. "i literally died" okay and mentally ill people attempt suicide and have literally died and haven't come back to post about it. some people attempt suicide and not only is their spine destroyed but so is their brain and they can't talk or feed themselves or bitch on tumblr. i'm sorry your life sucks but being a dick to people isn't going to fix shit. honestly you'll probably get less donations from ebegging or whatever you're calling it. you can post on tumblr, you have an internet connection, you have a partner that loves you and apparently your disability doesn't prevent you from fucking, you have distractions from the horrors of life, you have people who donate to you - you're doing a lot better than some of the people who were "just" depressed and are currently lying motionless beneath the soil. my god i get it, being disabled is fucking exhausted, and you have a right to be angry, but being angry doesn't mean being a dick.

HOW FUCKING DARE YOU USE MY DEAD FRIENDS AS A FUCKING BATTERING RAM IN AN ARGUMENT TRYING TO “PROVE” YOUR DEPRESSION IS JUST LIKE QUADRIPLEGIA YOU FUCKING SHITSTAIN

my disability doesn’t prevent me from fucking so anon thinks that makes it ok to send this essay of absolute hysterical horse shit to me

sweetie. babie. stupid stupid fucking cunt. I have literally been in psych hospitals more than you. I have almost succeeded in killing myself. I have had a tube shoved down my throat so I wouldn’t suffocate on my own puke

you don’t need to condescendingly whine about how I don’t take mental health seriously. I have bipolar I you dumb fucking bitch. you are literally just triggered by physically disabled people blogging about their own traumas and it’s FUCKING PATHETIC

if you spent more time actually reading my whole posts instead of making up a guy in your head to fucking screamcry at in his inbox you wouldn’t be calling a bipolar man who’s lived in residential care for taking 20374928473 opioids at once a big meanie pants ableist who invalidates meeeee!!!!!!

shut the actual fuck up you worthless pile of shit. nobody has to validate you or coddle you or pat your back because you are triggered by quadriplegics with boundaries. it’s nobody’s fault but your fucking own that YOU hate YOURSELF and don’t take YOUR own disabilities seriously. I owe you fucking nothing cunt

#go fuck yourself and fall off a building you worthless fucking ant #ableism