Bug Fables' deep lore is engaging in open warfare with my mental helath i swear to GOD I CAnt figure this tHE FUCK OUT IM GOING INSANE
Context: I'm trying to make a timeline. Bug fables took this personally.
The big question here that got me to break is what the fuck is the deal with Flower Gods? So I was writing an essay of sorts to try and figure it out as I go, then clean it up and post it when I came to a few satisfying conclusions, and maybe make a poll to see what others would prefer.
I have now lost at least a decade of my lifespan, and will be seeking reparations in the court of law. I'll post what I wrote below the cut, just be aware that it's not finished, will not be finished if I have a gun to my head, and jumps places every now and then because that's just how I roll in the drafting stage.
I hope to all the gods above that some of you can find sense where I have failed.
Beware: Here be dragons. (Also, it's quite long.)
BEGIN
Currently doing timeline shenanigans with Bug Fables. I learned something in the lore that will have a major impact in how that timeline manifests. The problem is that this lore detail isn't exactly straight-forward, and has multiple interpretations. I'd like to see some other thoughts on this matter before I make a decision. The lore in question is regarding the creation of the Flower Gods.
A reminder: There is a secret room in Snakemouth Den that displays information regarding the 3 Flower Gods. Prior to seeing this room, most I think didn't even know there were 3 - only knowing of Venus at the time. The other two are Mars and Pluto. These displays tell us a few things. Some information on the gods themselves: Venus is
Guardian: M-001 "Mars"
Age: 361
Status: Stable
Guardian: V-012 "Venus"
Age: 358
Status: Stable
Guardian: P-183 "Pluto"
Age: 34
Status: Stable
This secret asks a whole bunch of questions and answers exactly none of them.
The first thought I see many people go to is that this, of course, confirms that the Roaches created them. However, there is dialogue from Venus herself stating "Ah, it still feels like it was yesterday when they were scurrying around the land trying to get stuff together!" Which doesn't say much, but sort of implies that she was around while the Roaches were still figuring things out.
But what about those designations, what do they mean? For something like this - and considering they all start with the first letter of the Guardian's name - I think it's, like, a version number.
If they were all created by the Roaches, then… wtf? So with Mars, they got it right on their very first try - congratulations, a fucking GOD is born - but their next Guardian took 12 attempts? What? And then Pluto took 183 attempts. And the time discrepancy is just…. weird. Wtf does this mean? The Roaches started off as the best scientists ever, getting everything correct on their first go, then suddenly dropping the ball off the face of the Earth and getting nothing right? For centuries? And after all of that, they consider the Sapling to be their greatest creation. Not any of the Actual Deities they supposedly made. And then they place two of these gods in… just… entirely different territories. Mars is in the Eastern lands. Lord knows where Pluto is, but not Bugaria, that's for sure. I do find this rather unpalatable.
If they weren't created by the Roaches - they were just studying them, trying to replicate their power - I think that fits some of this better. Especially that above quote by Venus. If she was around before the Roaches developed what they have now - the Roaches being the first bugs to awaken - then did she awaken before even them? If she - and, perhaps, Mars - were the first to awaken, then was the Day of Awakening only around 370 years ago? That would probably be the best case scenario for developing a timeline. It'd be the only True Date that can be nailed down, and make it a lot easier to place other dates around it by comparison.
But still… what's the deal with the version numbers? Perhaps the Guardians do not have true immortality, but ressurrective immortality? That would sort imply that Pluto might in fact be the first, and he's on his 183'd life. It would also mean that Mars would actually be the youngest of the gods. Despite being the oldest current version, he is still only on his First version - no deaths, no resurrections. This would also mean that Pluto died around the time the Roaches vanished. But also - if Pluto died 182 times prior to his current iteration… what the fuck kind of life is this guy living? Is he stuck in a death loop, wtf?
This is honestly just another discrepancy, to me. Lets be as conservative as possible and say that most of Pluto's lives were all around 30 years in length. This is so conservative as to be ridiculous, but let's just ignore that. 183 x 30 = 5490. That's Fucking Old - and I'm gonna say, just as ridiculous. Why, then, would the other two gods only have a few years of an age gap? This feels like a strong point towards the idea that the Roaches created them??? that the designations are version numbers before deployment and not ressurrective iterations???
Oh My God. What the fuck am I supposed to believe?
BREAK
This is where I officially gave up. I hate all of these ideas none of them are satisfactory. Bug Fables why do you hate me so muchae dsafsafgfghrdsgrdfeignbreoiatghnbfrabgifrhdfhdfghdfsghdfizghsregtbdfsgfcuigh
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Ok, so let me explain why rebloging posts like these do little to nothing to assure Jews that they’ll be safe around you.
Goyim reblogging this stuff don’t typically listen to Jews (which is apparent because we’ve said stuff like this doesn’t actually do anything to help us many times) about their experiences with antisemitism or listen when Jews try to educate them on things like antisemitic dog whistles or blood libel. Most of them are way more enthusiastic about punching Nazis than they are about showing any compassion to Jews. I’d venture to guess the majority of Jewish people know that often the goyim who reblog this stuff are just out for blood and don’t give a damn about us, because we’ve seen this many times. Not to mention that the desire for a violent revolution that some leftists seem to have has led to Jewish people facing a lot of antisemitism (at their hands). I would bet that some of the people reblogging this act similar to Nazis themselves. I know at the very least the goyim rebloging this don’t listen to Jews because we’ve said many times that this sort of thing doesn’t really do anything to help us, and we’d much rather goyim call out and learn about antisemitism. Overall, it’s just very performative activism, and it’s pretty obvious that the goyim reblogging this are just doing it to try and make themselves look better, and not for the sake of Jews.
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Okay, my brain refuses to think about anything other than Murderbot, so I looked at every use of the word "friend[s]" in TMBD and... created some pie charts. Normal human activities.
Some Thoughts™ I had while putting this together (under the cut):
In All Systems Red, Murderbot notes that the PresAux crew are all close friends (twice! and goes on to explain their internal relationships which I think is very cute). This is pretty much the only use of 'friends' in ASR, except for when Murderbot says that SecUnits can't be friends with each other.
It seems that this may be one of the first times Murderbot has ever really been around a group of friends before? Murderbot notes that this is not the norm for its contracts and admits that the fact that they are all friends and the way they interact with each other make it actually enjoy that contract (before!!!! the hostile attack, so it already enjoys this contract before they start seeing it as a person etc ghghhhh). [Inference: Friendship seems enjoyable.]
The first character that calls Murderbot its friend is ART in Artificial Condition. Murderbot immediately refutes this (and then goes on to call ART its friend to its clients for the rest of the book). [Inference: Maybe ART is Murderbot's friend. And maybe that is... agreeable]
Rogue Protocol has more than twice as many instances of the word 'friend' as any of the other novellas. Why? Miki. Friendship and its implications for non-humans are a central theme because Miki is friends with everyone. Murderbot initially scoffs at the notion that Miki and Miki's humans are friends. At the end of the book, after witnessing how desperately Don Abene tried to stop Miki from trying to save them, and her grief after its death, Murderbot has to admit that she had in fact been Miki's friend. [Inference: Humans can be friends with bots and can sincerely care about them]
In Exit Strategy, Murderbot tentatively uses the word "friends" for its humans for the first time (several times actually). It questions whether it can actually call them its friends or not and later realizes that it had been afraid what admitting that the humans are its friends would do to it. At the end of the book, Mensah tells Murderbot the PresAux crew are its friends, which is the first time a human has directly said that to it (at least on-page). [Inference: Humans can and want to be Murderbot's friends]
In Network Effect, Murderbot seems to be more habituated to the word 'friend', confidently calling ART and Ratthi its friends, like it is no longer just trying the concept on unsure if it fits. There are many instances in which other characters refer to MB as ART's friend or the other way around and Murderbot's humans refer to Murderbot as their friend several times. Generally, there seems to be less hesitancy, because yes, all of them are Murderbot's friends, why wouldn't they be. [Inference: SecUnits can have friends. This SecUnit has friends. They care about it a lot.]
Conclusion: The Murderbot Diaries tell the story of a construct that does not seem to consider the possibility of friendship for itself and is fine with that - until it accidentally starts caring a little too much and suddenly more and more people annex it as a friend (ew) to the point where it can no longer deny that this is happening and has to begrudgingly admit that yes, it has friends now and maybe that is actually not a bad thing.
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see the thing about Astarion to me is I don't actually think he has a clue who he actually is beneath all of the everything he's got going on. he's got impulses, he's got drive, a will to live, he's got desires and amusements and cravings, but an actual selfhood?? no. there's a blue error screen where the person of him should be, the person -- whoever that was, I'm personally of the mind he likely wasn't good then either, but we'll see where the story takes us -- before Cazador. the man in front of us today is this mishmash of interior delight at freedom and sunlight but also capable of true unapologetic cruelty and willingness to be ugly in a multitude of ways. so he follows the impulse. he follows what intrigues and amuses, and nothing will take that freedom from him again. and he reflects back onto others the violence that was done unto him. a lack of power kept him down? now he wants to accumulate power, so it can never be turned on him again. but he also misses the sun while he's underground. he's mean and desperate and ruthless and it's interesting because he's unapologetic about it, he's unflinching about it. he's vindictive and mean and desperately floundering around throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks in terms of personhood because who is he now. 200 years of horrific servitude and now he's just out and about and he's in the mud.
and he can be horrible. and yet when you take the routes of prying open the faaairly shallow veneer he has of smug and snark and snappiness, he'll give you pieces of the raw and the desperate -- "I want to know what the world sees when it looks at me. what you see." is a line you only get if you're earnest with him. any other path in the dialogue will have him continue the shallow persona you've come to know. and in all of that I think nothing is "this is real, this is an act," set in stone because I just don't think he even knows, I don't think he has a CLUE what's his and what's the protective measures and what's the real delight and what's the cruel mockery of his surroundings and what he's willing to give vs what he needs to hide vs what he lets slip out on accident. the inconsistencies in his own ideas and what he says and what he does. I think most everything about him is in a weird place of deeply uncertain. is it a lie? is it a glimmer of truth? for me, I like to interpret him in this weird menagerie of half-truths and shallow lies and omissions, because we've only known him a short while and maybe also he doesn't even know the answer yet. who is he? fuck if HE knows. anyways. smash.
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