#itsv collider

[cyanide-sippy-cup]

Okay theory time. Walk with me.

When I was rewatching ITSV, my brother made a good point. When Norman says "It's not up to me." He asked "why not?" And that's a valid question to ask. Why is Norman Osborn taking orders from Kingpin?

In terms of power, Norman wins. Intelligence? Norman has that too. So I started thinking about this. Why aren't you in control?

So. I figured Kingpin probably has something Norman wants. Something to make him follow orders. Maybe revenge? No, because he's clearly trying to keep Peter out, not kill him. So something more important than Spider-Man.

A cure then? It would certainly help to explain Norman's aggression and desperality.

But no. Again, Norman has the intelligence to pull this off himself. And the Norman I know would be caught dead before being seen working for someone else. Speaking of which,

he dies. He straight up dies for this. Maybe it could've been accidental, an unforseen product of his attack against Peter. But again, Norman's not just some wild animal. Despite how he goes from talking to roaring (and we'll get back to that), he is Norman Osborn. Why would he risk destroying the machine and ending his own life in a last ditch attempt to kill Peter? What's the point in getting a cure if you're just going to die without it?

So no. At least. I don't think so. I think it has to be something more important than a cure.

But wait. This is an adaptation of Earth 1610. The Ultimates Universe. Maybe he lost someone? Who did 1610 Norman lose that could be used as-

Oh. Oh yeah. His son. The thing that, especially if comic-accurate, he would feel guilt for the most.

And we know the collider was built to bring back loved ones. That's the whole reason Kingpin has it, to bring back his wife and son.

And we know they ran tests before the movie begins, because that's how Gwen got there. That's why Kingpin knows that "it's a hell of a freakin light show".

So maybe that's how he got Norman aboard. He showed him the potential of what it could do. What it could bring back. He leveraged his son above him to use his intelligence and use him as a sort of gatekeeper.

It would explain why Norman is so angry, so desperate to just keep Peter out. Why he takes orders from someone he could easily subdue. Why he's reduced to roaring and snarling as the fight enters the collider. Why he's willing to die for whatever was promised.

Because his greatest regret, his greatest failure, his greatest loss- could be undone.

#what do yall think #spider man #spiderman #does whatever a spider can #spiderverse #itsv #spiderman into the spiderverse #into the spider verse #peter parker #norman osborn #green goblin #marvel #marvel comics #atsv #spiderman across the spiderverse #across the spiderverse #wilson fisk #kingpin #collider #itsv collider #harry osborn #gwen stacy #olivia octavius #peter benjamin parker

[v4guelyv4mpiric]

put hobie brown and peni parker in a room with a shit ton of scrap metal and electronics and see what they come up with

#they gonna make their own collider #peni parker #hobie brown #spiderman #spiderman across the spiderverse #atsv #itsv #into the spider verse #spider punk #sp//dr

[fellhellion]

Something something the spot’s goofy antics distract from how dangerous his own entitlement and resentment is

#I don’t want to be that guy but I feel a little bit like spot gets sanded down a tad into just the fact he’s funny #and he IS funny I get it. but what makes him scary is the power to lash out with his entitlement and resentment towards miles #it’s you did this TO ME (miles didn’t #he was busy getting pummeled by kingpin and then venom shocking him back and the building was being EVACUATED it’s literally no one’s fault #but spot’s that he was there AND miles didn’t even know he was there when the collider exploded) #so I’m owed the role that you made me into <- miles literally didn’t do this #I’m OWED being your nemesis because I created you <- when all of itsv is about its miles own choices that make him heroic and not the bite #spot can’t even take ownership of his own actions. he’s like oh IM not robbing you that’s the bank. well buddy I don’t see you robbing the #bank I see you harassing some guy owning a corner store #like I get it. ur a cosmic horror and it sucks capitalism is pushing u down and u can’t get a job but like OWN UP TO WHAT THE HELL YOU DO #LMAO #and even miles trying to genuinely reach out and say look I’m sorry I made u feel bad (even though this isn’t an owed apology) and spot #STILL is hellbent on breaking miles back for an imagined slight #I AM GOING TO KILL YOUR LITERAL FATHER BECAUSE I BLAME YOU FOR SOMETHING YOU DIDNT DO #like god lmao. he’s a fun silly villain but there’s legitimate anger and spite and RESENTMENT motivating him purely to try hurt miles back a #as* badly as he imagines miles hurt him. when it’s like dude. own tf up to who’s responsible here #I’m not angry at the spot btw I actually think he’s a fun villain but I think recognising that resentment is what makes him effective as a #*​frightening* villain and one that poses legitimate danger #tunes talks spiderverse #apologies xinakwans ik u said you didn’t want to read any spot posts hopefully this snags on ur filtered content block shdjfjfk

[yassentheassassin]

"miguel is the original anomaly" did you watch the movie and just completely misunderstand it or are you just making shit up to justify hating the character??

#it's OCTOBER how am i still seeing this??? #how are you people still not understanding that he made his AUTONOMOUS multiversal jump after the events of itsv #ya know...the movie where several spider people were in the wrong universe #where kingpins collider broke a hole in the multiverse #miguel o'hara #atsv

[simplyender]

"spots story is inconsistent because he has a different hairstyle in it than what was in the picture of him"

ok so im about blow yalls minds right now:

did you guys know people can get haircuts.

#spot spiderverse #spot #johnathan ohnn #'he must be an unreliable narrator bc he isnt clean shaven in one picture of himself' #im p sure what happened is he went STEM major and just didnt shave/get a haircut/shower probably for the duraction of the collider project #and after it got built and he got his breakthrough of the year award #he was like 'oh hey i should probably clean myself up' #personslly it makes sense to me bc spots shown a tendency to hyperfixate REALLY HARD #plus they needed him to look more like bagel guy from itsv #of course that raises the question as to why he got two human designs but 🤷‍♂️ #i genuinely just think it was to accentuate what a batshit workholic he can be #atsv #jonathon ohnn

[movedtodykedvonte]

Peter probably didn’t care too much about the multiverse or canon (hence why he never really took the chase seriously) cause he is like the canon Peter Parker. He is 616B Peter, the B because the events of ITSV and ATSV have basically created a separate 616 Peter (one now exists never went through the events).

Up until the movies every canon event was based on his life and all the trauma and heart ache he has gone through. Can you possibly blame him for not caring too much about a canon that subjects everyone in it to versions of his pain? Peter saying “It’s crazy to run.” to Miles cause he tried to run from all this, leave it in the past only to be thrusted into a place that treats his past present and future like scripture.

Peter likely understood that he owed a lot to Miles for essentially breaking him out of his own self-fulfilling prophecy, though he realized it too late to stop or truly plead with Miguel.

#my belief is that the B is bascically just saying that they are the b universe now #miles universe is the correct universe for him to be the ultimate spiderman 1610 but it has the b because his poweres and events diverge #cause of the dimensional warping and crossing over so B just defines if you had your events dependent or independent of another spiderman #effectively if you were directly affected by the web of life rather than just going about life as a spider totem #so now theres canon 616 Peter who never got sucked into the portal that follows the comics and 1610 Miles who never meets the others and so #on and so forth as Gwen probably would be in college if the collider hadnt done some displacing #atsv spoilers #atsv #across the spiderverse #spiderverse #into the spiderverse #itsv #peter b parker #spiderman

[oceanautumn]

can someone please actually explain how gwen ended up in miles's universe early because it literally makes no sense to me. what do you mean she got "sent into last week." how does that work. why'd she show up on earth 1610 before the collider even went off when all the other spidermen came after peter's death why did brooklyn visions academy let her take classes there how did she not glitch in front of anyone for that whole week when she was spending 8 hours a day in school. please someone explain this i legitimately do not understand

#spiderverse #into the spiderverse #across the spiderverse #itsv #atsv #gwen stacy #miles morales #is there some canon explanation i'm missing?? it just doesn't make sense to me #if the collider going off is what brought the spidermen to miles's universe then why did gwen end up there earlier than anyone else #riddle me that

[yarnkirby]

i’ve been listening to this physics history youtube channel while working on assignments and it helps bc i like hearing stuff in the background but i have no idea what they’re talking about most of the time

#me: oh a collider just like itsv

[guyinmink]

#she was such a popular character #and considering she kickstarted the whole events in motion by bringing the 42!spider through the collider #plus she is constantly shown in flashbacks throughout atsv #they clearly haven't forgotten about her #across the spiderverse #into the spider verse #atsv #itsv #doc ock #olivia octavius

[heart-of-the-morningstar]

Ok so not once, but TWICE, RIPeter in ITSV says he’s worried using the collider would create a black hole under Brooklyn. And guess what appears in Mumbattan once Spot uses the collider…

A black hole…

It’s obvious Miguel is wrong about canon events, whether it’s out of ignorance or is intentional is unknown. Because when the world he lived in disappeared, it did not look like it was being enveloped by a black hole. It almost looks like everyone was glitched out of existence.

It’s unknown if they’ll be able to fix Mumbattan, but it’s clear something fishy is going on…

#itsv #into the spider verse #into the spiderverse #smitsv #atsv #smatsv #atsv spoilers #smatsv spoilers #across the spider verse #across the spiderverse #across the spiderverse spoilers #across the spider verse spoilers #spiderverse #spider man #ripeter #miguel o'hara #spider man 2099 #mumbattan #theory

[whosmarinette]

Ok I might be crazy but on rewatch of ITSV it becomes apparent that Peter Parker would’ve died regardless of Miles being there. What killed him wasn’t being “distracted” by Miles - he was pretty laser-focused on the fight, there’s not really any indication that he was checking in on Miles and that’s what killed him. No. What killed him was the shock of getting his head shoved into the collider thingie and then getting beaten to a pulp.

You know what would have happened if Miles wasn’t there though? There wouldn’t be anybody to know who killed Peter, and wouldn’t be anybody to take the goober from him to finish the job. Which would have resulted in kingpin finishing what he started with ease and destroying not only 1610 but possibly the entire multiverse.

So yeah, no, Miles isn’t an anomaly. He saved everyone’s asses at the age of 14 and then went home and did his homework. Put some damn respect on his name.

#I mean I might be wrong but like I watched the scene pretty intensely last time I watched it #across the spiderverse #atsv #into the spiderverse #itsv #miles morales #spiderman #Peter Parker

[ficsinhistory]

Okay, I was thinking and... why the hell did Miguel not want Gwen in Spider Society?

You might say, "It's because she was involved in the collider crash, thus linked to Miles who he considers the original anomaly. Besides clearly having strong ties to him."

But you know who else was involved with Collider and has a significant connection to Miles?

Peter B. Parker! The man was Miles' mentor for God's sake!

And not only was he in the Society, he seemed to be a kind of close(?) of Miguel and be recruited at the beginning of the Society without any problems and was apparently after the events of ITSV.

And don't even say it's because Gwen is a minor because Margo appears in his elite team photo from the beginning along with Jess until. Doesn't seem like age is an issue for him.

So I ask again, what is it that Miguel has so much against Gwen that he had to see her father want to shoot her to accept her?

Why was he so angry and intransigent with her? Being so paranoid as to be watching her 24/7?

Does Miguel judge Gwen's connection to Miles stronger than Peter and Miles? If yes, why?

I think there's something else there.

#across the spiderverse #spiderverse #gwen stacy #miguel o'hara #I'm not buying the thing is only the link to Miles #Miguel seems to have something against Gwen in specific #not in the same way he has against Miles #but it's like her presence unnerves him all by itself #Gwen is more unstable than Peter at obeying the rules however #but even so #if the problem was just seeing Miles #he would never even go near Gwen in the first place #he was willing to talk to her

[fellhellion]

i don't personally agree with the perspective that "miguel NEEDS to partially correct about canon events, otherwise he's a villain" because like. setting aside the issue of possibly naturalising the irl choices writers made (e.g. fridging gwen) through the concept of 'canon events', to me defining miguel's morality comes down to two questions:

What is Miguel's intent when pursuing his goal? <- it's unambigiously heroic. he desires to save people. and -

Can I plausibly understand how he has come to the belief system (and therefore goal) he has? Yes. I can understand why, when viewing the things he did (universal patterns of suffering between spidermen & the trauma of that dimension collapse), he came to the conclusion he did.

Keep in mind the other bits of information we and the characters are working with are:

Anomalies seem to affect the world they're in (Vulture appears to affect the Guggenheim's structure w glitches)

They're also in danger of dying if they don't have a stabaliser like the watch

But say for the sake of argument Miguel is completely wrong about breaking canon and doing so would not endanger anyone and the alt dimension collapsed for reasons utterly out of Miguel's knowledge or control. That still doesn't negate the heroic intent he operated by nor his desire to save people.

What "How much or little is Miguel correct?" affects is how tragic it makes Miguel's guilt and the moral concessions he feels that guilt about. Whether you would argue for it being needlessly tragic or bleak is another conversation entirely but how correct he is about what damage canon events cause doesn't actually change the fact he operated on sincerely good and heroic intentions.. And I think atsv already sets up that last point in an understandable manner.

#long post #tunes talks spiderverse #she came. she never shut up about miguel. she posted fdshfkshdfjsd #the reason i outline the knowledge of what seems to be the unquestionable consequences of anomalies in alt worlds #is so you can understand why miguel occum razor's miles changing canon as the reason theres a black hole under pav's world #we've already been shown it's possible for anomalies to affect the stability of a world (this seems to be a quiet change from itsv) and #spot firing up a baby collider and using his powers didnt open up a black hole under 1610 new york (as far as we know) #so if youre already predisposed to believing fucking w canon will cause harm i can understand WHY even if i think hes not correct #miguel and spider society assumes miles' action causes that unravelling. ESP when taken in conjunction w miguel believing his own world #jumping caused an unravelling and he applies that same fearful reasoning to whats happening here #i dont think hes correct but i understand WHY he came to conclusion he did esp when u keep in mind the kind of doublebind #miguel is IN already when it comes to being terrified hes got it wrong all over again but also being terrified of the stakes HE LITERALLY #THINKS HE EXPERIENCED (and he DID experience that trauma. even if it turns out it happened for a reason that wasnt his fault or even #related to him being in that dimension at all)

[amys-books27]

why don't we talk about this more?

In itsv Miles catches Gwen while she's falling into the collider

And after in atsv he catches her a second time while they're in Pav's dimension

So maybe in Beyond, we could get something like this but riskier for Gwen's life, we could get a minute where we think she will die, so immediately after it Miles saves her and they've their "happy ever after"

#im delulu #spider gwen #spiderman atsv #intsv #ghostflower #gwiles #gwen stacy #beyond the spiderverse

[cxrsddcon]

not sure if anyone's done this before but here we go-

the scene in itsv where kingpin activates the super-collider, there's a screen that shows 5 dimensions opening.

each dimension is a spider person from the team:

E-616 is Peter B's

E-65 is Gwen's

E-14512 is Peni Parker's

E-8311 is Spider-Ham's (or Peter Porker)

E-90214 is Spider Noire's

#shit everyone might know this actually #the details in these movies are insane #into the spider verse #across the spiderverse #spiderverse #itsv #atsv #miles morales #spider gwen #miguel o'hara #marvel #spiderman #beyond the spiderverse #spider noir

[aspiringsophrosyne]

One thing I only realized in hindsight that I think is really striking is because...of course. Of course, Miles would never buy into Miguel and the Spider Society's "Canon" philosophy. Not just because he wouldn't want to stand by and just let horrible things happen to people, especially people he knows and loves...

But because the challenge Canon represents is one he's beaten once already.

The conceit of Canon events is essentially a trolley problem. There are two tracks: one set with one person tied to them and one set with several. Someone will die no matter what, but if the trolley is rerouted to the track with only one person on it, then fewer will die. Right? Likewise, if a Police Captain dies, the multiverse is saved.

But in Into The Spiderverse, the same problem is presented to Miles and the visiting Spider-People.

The Spider-People needed to use the collider to go home, or they would all keep glitching until their bodies disintegrated. But, they needed someone to stay behind and shut down the collider after, or it would threaten their various universes and beyond. In other words, one Spider had to strand themselves in Miles' universe to save everyone and everything else. Peter B. reveals to Miles before they set off that it's himself, even though they both know it's a death sentence.

All by themselves, there's nothing else the multi-versal migrants could've done. They had to get as many people out as possible, and they also had to stop the collider. No one could shut down the collider and escape succumbing to glitches.

Except for Miles.

After they leave him, Miles gets the reassurance, love, and support from his father that he'd been needing. This sets off his apotheosis, allows him to join the rest of the Spiders, and be the one to stay while they all go home. And since Miles is from the universe in question, as long as he can beat Kingpin, all the Spiders are safe, the collider gets shut down, and no one has to die.

While the confrontation at the collider isn't, as far as we know, a Canon event, it does present the same challenge: saving both the multiverse and the one person who seemingly has to die to save it.

In other words, Miles already beat this trolley problem once in ITSV. Miles wouldn't buy into the Society's idea that you not only can't fight fate, you must actively enable it, because...

Because he's not only fought fate once before, he's won.

And I believe he can do it again. 

#into the spiderverse #across the spiderverse #into the spiderverse meta #across the spiderverse meta #miles morales #gwen stacy #Peter B. Parker #Spider-man Noir #sp//dr #Peni Parker #Peter Porker #spider-ham #spider-man #spider-woman #miguel o'hara #spiderverse #spiderverse meta #jessica drew #spider-man 2099 #atsv spoilers #across the spiderverse spoilers