#jiang cheng who was fucking mad at wei wuxian because wei wuxian didn't want to share his problems with him

[haru-with-mdzs]

Reblog this post and state your favourite mdzs character + reasons in the tags

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #for me #it's obviously jiang cheng #i love the depth he has to his character #jiang cheng who was fucking mad at wei wuxian because wei wuxian didn't want to share his problems with him #jiang cheng who was the youngest in the family with absolutely no experience with children raising jin ling #jiang cheng who was barely twenty when he rebuilt lotus pier #jiang cheng who really lived up to his parents' expectations in the end #i just love him so much #i get that some people don't like him because he wasn't willing to help the wens #he's a sect leader with responsibilities #he would have supported his brother if he wasn't one #he's my comfort character and everytime i read book 5 where he breaks down in guanyin temple i just cry so much #will be adding more in the future because this is about jiang cheng and this much isn't enough

[vrishchikawrites]

Aren't JC's thoughts and fears pretty normal and that he has the right to think that the first thing Wei Wuxian should have done upon resurrection is head to Lotus Pier and explain himself? When family members start dying, aren't explanations in order?

JC trusting WWX so much is one of the things that added to the tragedy and keeps him up at night. He lets his brother get away with so much! He's just less stringent about orthodoxy and willing to roll with it if WWX says everything's under control. Wei Wuxian couldn't keep up the pretense forever, but he still managed to last as JC's right hand for THREE FUCKING YEARS without JC catching on just because he trusts WWX that much. WWX isn't being fully honest, but JC trusts that he knows what he's doing and means well and so just rolls his eyes when WWX says shit like "The more you ask me to do something the more I don't want to" and goes day drinking without helping with the rebuilding while JC works late every night.

When WWX breaks out the Wen in what is a political disaster for Jiang Cheng and is doing mad science just because Wen Qing asked when JC asked him fifty million times to teach even just one sword class, JC lashes out and gets his feelings hurt but agrees to the ruse. After WWX broke with the Jiang, it's Jiang Cheng's idea to give him nephew naming rights so he still feels included in their family, and then WWX loses control and kills the father of said nephew which is a little awkward emotionally. But even then as furious as he is he doesn't take the pledge with the others and holds his disciples back, and then WWX hits Yanli with a zombie and JC has to hold her as she dies in his arms. Jiang Cheng continued to trust and love Wei Wuxian and keep him included in their family throughout the entirety of the first life and then his entire family died and he started questioning this decision.

Even the whole consent issue with JC is wild because he should have just told him. He would have understood considering JC himself sacrificed his core.

Um.

That's a whole lot of CQL and fanon you just dropped into my inbox, love.

The novel was pretty explicit when it described what was happening immediately after the war. WWX not putting any less effort. In fact, majority of the new recruits joined Yunmeng Jiang because WWX was standing there behind JC.

WWX DID have it under control. You may want to read up on that ambush scene a little more.

Cause. Dude. Jin Zixuan may have died but no way was it 100% WWX's fault. You don't just lunge at someone surrounded by 300 armed men trying to kill him and ask him to peacefully walk into a trap, all the while siding with the asshole trying to kill WWX.

There's a two year gap between the rescue of the Wens and the ambush. During that time, WWX was just chilling and keeping the Wens alive. Not a single incidence of any loss of control reported.

Fifty million times? I don't recall reading it once in the novel but I went and confirmed it with my friends on Discord too. And nope, didn't happen. It is CQL bs. So is him drinking away and being drunk. Because in novel canon and according to MXTX herself, WWX's drunk self is virtually indistinguishable from his not-drunk self. The only time he is remotely tipsy is during the bathtub incident (if you know, you know.)

Doesn't take the pledge? Holds his disciples back? More CQL bs. He was there in the ceremony watching them burn the people who saved him burn alive. He also knew exactly who were in the BM, including a fucking toddler.

Remember a-Yuan? And his grandmother? Who had her fucking head caved in? And who was thrown into the bloodpool with no proper rites and rituals?

Who lead that siege into the BM?

Jiang fucking Cheng. He LEAD. They wouldn't have been able to pull it off without him.

And JYL? Dude. Do you understand the situation at all? Thousands of people gathered for the sole purpose of killing WWX and the 50 people he protected. They attacked first. WWX retaliated. JYL ran into an active battlefield, no one knowing she was even there. The first hit was an accident. The second was her protecting WWX.

Do you understand? That was foolish choices made out of desperation from the only other person alive who truly loved WWX at that point.

WWX lost control after that. Rightfully so. But even before that, the situation was messed up enough to warrant ANYONE snapping.

Love and trust? You understand JC nearly strangled WWX to death? And then gutted him in a staged fight? WWX literally had to stuff his organs back in? And he declared him the enemy of the cultivation world? And blamed him for rescuing people instead of keeping his head down? His entire family died because the cultivation world is messed up, not because WWX is uncontrollable. The Wens attacked CR unprovoked. They would've done the same to LP. And they did. WWX just became a convenient scapegoat. It is funny how the fandom takes JC's delusional rant about it being WWX's fault so seriously.

JYL died because she ran, unarmed and untrained, into an open battlefield, where WWX facing thousands of cultivators determined to kill him and just 50 old or infirm people, alone? And that she threw herself forward to protect him?

JC's grief about losing his sister and parents is understandable, but let us not ignore the huge part he played in the mess post SSC. Even the villian called him out on his stupidity.

There's a reason why no one but Wangxian is rewarded at the end of the novel. No one but them deserved any measure of peace after their colossal fuckups.

The consent argument is done to death. I won't rehash it. And JC didn't know he was gonna be losing his core. If he had, he wouldn't have fucking moved from his place.

We all know what happened after the GC transfer was revealed to him.

He just blamed WWX and tried to hold him to a debt that shouldn't rightfully exist in the first place.

I've read the novel before it was even translated by seven seas. I still remember what the og canon JC is like. Unfortunately for many stans, JC *is* an antagonist seething in his resentment and jealousy. And he remains that way till the very end.

#wei wuxian #mdzs #reader asks #re: jc #canon jiang cheng

[ineffectualdemon]

The thing people seem to miss about MDZS is there are almost no morally pure characters because almost all the characters have falling into a destructive cycle:

Characters are abused by people who see them as things

They are dehumanised

And when they rise up against that abuse their response is to dehumanise their abusers by seeing them as monsters that deserve whatever happens to them

Wei Wuxian tortures Wen Chao and those with him in brutal and horrific ways

For whatever evil that they did that was grotesque cruelty

So was the cultivation worlds treatment of the Wen sect remnant. The cultivation world didn't see them as people they saw them as "Wen Dogs" and it was easy to then see Wei Wuxian as less than human too

Jin Guangyao does the same process when seeking his revenge. What he does to his father is again horrific and of course to Nie Mingjue

Mo Xuanyu is another example

We see this most extremely with Xue Yang who had never been treated as a person until Jin Guangyao and later Xiao Xingchen and he has no desire to see anyone else as people

Jiang Cheng is an interesting example of this because like the rest of the cultivation world he does this with the Wens too.

Which is why he can't understand Wei Wuxian's choice and is so hurt. Because in the book he has no relationship with or memory of Wen Ning and Wen Qing. He had either been unconscious, nearly catatonic with depression, or blindfolded around them. They are quite literally strangers to him and strangers affiliated with a group he has stopped seeing as people and only sees as monsters.

A view that comes from his personal trauma and that is supported and encouraged by the adults around him

And until Jiang Yanli's death Jiang Cheng is one of very few people who does not see Wei Wuxian as a monster. After the death of Jiang Yanli he wants to see Wei Wuxian as an inhuman monster

He wants to be able to see him as something other then human. Something not his brother

And he utterly fucking fails at it

When Wei Wuxian comes back Jiang Cheng is posturing and threatening but he is much more bark than bite. I think some people see him as an antagonist early on but really it always felt more to me that Wei Wuxian wanted to get away not because he felt in danger (except if Fairy was around) but because it was really fucking awkward and his personal guilt was eating him alive

Like Jiang Cheng gets mad that he can't hate him properly! It's a whole thing! If he's an antagonist he's really shit at it!

Still, there is a reoccurring message: when you see people as monsters/less than human then it you run the risk of becoming monstrous in response

There are far more examples in the book. I'm not going to list every single one here.

Am I saying the cultivation world was wrong to fight the Wens? No

Am I saying Wei Wuxian was wrong to save the Wen sect remnant. No

What I'm saying is the book is an examination of a cycle of dehumanisation and brutal cruelty

And I think that's really interesting and one of the reasons I like MDZS

Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, even Lan Wangji to an extent...their generation were kids who had horrific traumatic shit happened to them. It's not surprising that they saw the perpetrators as monsters instead of people. It was easier and it was encouraged by the adults around them who encouraged them to continue to paint people as monsters,

But I think a lot of the story is some of them realising in various ways how seeing people as inhuman warps your thinking and your actions. And they don't all learn that gracefully. And some don't learn at all, and some learn the lesson far too late

It's just something I really enjoy about the book

#mdzs #mdzs meta

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I just saw a post that was like "wn went off so hard on jc during the golden core reveal bc then he doesn't have to think about thr ethics of what wwx did to him in his sister's name" or smth. Like, i'd say wn was being so harsh bc jc was being an asshole in the first place. But it's not the first time i've seen people compare wq doing the golden core exchange and wwx turning wn into a fierce corpse as the same "mad scientist trying this out"-thing and arguing neither should've happened (specifically that wwx has low self-esteem for one and stopped wn from entering the cycle or reincarnation for the other) so i was wondering what your thoughts on it were

This is long... so hahahahah, sorry.

This is actually cherry picking as it doesn't take into the account that Wen Ning, did not want to die. He had enough hate against his death, because he was brutally murdered, he was becoming a fierce corpse/jiangshi. His death was already karmically wrong.

Wei Wuxian intervened enough with that transformation to be able to change the usual method of what a jiangshi should be. It wasn't a disruption to his reincarnation cycle as he still retained his actual soul (the Hun) as does Song Lan. Wei Wuxian yes, out of guilt, fought to keep Wen Ning as Wen Ning after his death, he had to fight for the Hun to stay over the malicious Po.

For Song Lan, the basics can only be guessed as to what his catalyst was, but I think, it wasn't rage against the way of his death that made him undead, but that he didn't want Xiao Xingchen to blame himself for killing Song Lan, as it was Xue Yang who mastered that. It is what makes them the outlier of fierce corpses like Nie Mingjue who is not alive in the sense of humanity and feeling and is running off the sheer rage of his Po only, his humanity was lost because it moved on. Wen Ning the person (as well as Song Lan (The Hun that makes the human part) did not move on.

The core transfer was also done out of guilt from Wen Qing for HER clan, having attacked Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's lives, and Wen Ning having taken it upon himself to protect the two as a consequence. We are also told nothing is stopping Wen Ning from finally passing by the author, he can move on when he wants to and feels like it. He gets to choose when he wants to die unlike that first one. He is grateful to Wei Wuxian for keeping him as alive as much as is possible and why he is fucking grateful to him and ride or die for life to Wei Wuxian. Unlike Jiang Cheng who multiple times was protected by Wei Wuxian and still decided to off him because he is vile and selfish.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #wen ning #wen qing #it's nothing to do with self hate on WWX or WQ's part #they felt bad #and wanted to let someone have a second chance

[jayktoralldaylong]

Sometimes people just chose to don rose coloured glasses when examining Wei Wuxian's actions or choices, then get judgemental when anyone else does the same.

"What kind of brother brings the end of his own brother?" They say about Jiang Cheng.

I've got one better. What kind of brother, though adopted, is the reason your clan was targeted and massacred. Men, women, children, piled into bodies beside the fallen corpses of the Jiang Cheng's parents. What sort of brother is the reason you become an orphan in a night, intentional or unintentional. What sort of brother is the reason your your brother-in-law and sister dies, making an orphan or the new born nephew that he named. And would you, as the responsible last member of the family that nephew has to protect him, give said brother the chance to make yet another mistake, risking the lives of the few people you care about who still draw breath?

The answer is NO.

And Wei Wuxian wasn't even mad about it because he knew he'd fucked up! They both thought it was his fault. He wanted to die because he'd never forgive himself if he hurt Jiang Cheng or Lan Wangji. Jiang Cheng made tough decision after tough decision for the sake of his brother and Wei Wuxian did the same. They didn't communicate. They are BOTH at fault. Don't act like Jiang Cheng is the devil then treat Wei Wuxian like a King.

(EDIT: There's lots of people seeing this post and assuming I'm blaming Wei Wuxian for everything that happened in MDZS. I'm not. Wei Wuxian was powerful but he was really just one element in a mighty storm that he had no control over. He just kept trying to control the cracks at the same time and that exploded in his face. This post is mostly calling out all those who take the time to understand how most of Wei Wuxian's actions were done intending to help, and Jiang Cheng was the one left cleaning up every mess he left behind. Like Yay Wei Wuxian is a hero, but after the heroic battle is all over Jiang Cheng is left wondering why it even begun. Jiang Cheng obeyed the Wens but his family was the one who still hit the ground. No one is saying that Jiang Cheng was the perfect brother but people need to acknowledge that neither was Wei Wuxian. THAT'S THE WHOLE POST!! Neither of them were perfect! It's hard to be an angel understanding brother in those kind of circumstances.)

#jiang wanyin #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #jiang clan #jiang yanli #jin zixuan #yunmeng siblings #twin prides of yunmeng #yunmeng jiang #yunmeng prides #twin heroes of yunmeng #mdzs fandom #mo doa zu shi #some things are just exhausting

[qi-rong-enjoyer]

I'm starting to think it's easy to blame Jiang Cheng for not stepping up anytime Wei Wuxian was getting yelled at by Yu Ziyuan, unless you've been in that position before. Since this is about to get really personal and really long and spoilery, I'm going to put everything under the cut.

All it would have done is make the situation worse, because that would have caused Yu Ziyuan to get even more mad, and she'd yelling at him to fuck off and tell him that it's not any of his goddamn business and make her be angry for longer, and Jiang Cheng would've felt guilty, because in the end he failed to protect Wei Wuxian, because his efforts weren't good enough to get his mom to stop.

Also, seeing one of your parents get that angry is something that can be incredibly terrifying. ' It's scary, to the point of being paralyzing, and you want it to end, but you're completely powerless to do anything, and for your lack of power you feel guilty because you feel weak, even if you know the situation's not your fault. You want to fucking scream, but you know damn well yelling wouldn't change a thing. You want to hide, be anywhere but where you are right now. And all you can do is think 'makeitstopmakeitstopmakeitstop,' and feel miserable.

It's not easy to just stand up to a person like that. In fact, it's easier to not say anything even though you feel even more guilty than you otherwise would, and I'm saying this as someone who's been in this position; I'm saying it as someone who knows all too fucking well what it's like to be in that situation, and really wishes she didn't.

Even worse, that initial blame, that accusation, completely forgets the fact that he did try to do something at what was likely the most terrifying possible moment for him. When YZY was whipping Wei Wuxian after Wang Lingjiao arrived, Jiang Cheng was trying to stop her from hurting Wei Wuxian. His mom's maids (Jinzhu and Yinzhu) were holding him back so he wouldn't do anything. He only broke free after WLJ asked for WWX'S right hand and begged his mom not to do it. This happened in the novel by the way, not just the donghua or drama, because I know events differ depending on which canon, and I know it matters to some. The important part is that it happens in all versions of canon.

What makes it worse to me than anything I've mentioned before is that he managed to break through that fear I was talking about. When he knew things were really, really, going to get bad. And this scene, it's so important to me, because I know I would have been too scared of what was happening to say anything, but Jiang Cheng did. The fact that he was able to be that brave, in spite of the absolute terror he must have been feeling, in spite of what he must have known would happen, was incredibly important and special to me in the most personal way, because it meant there was still hope out there for someone like me, which I think I really needed at the time I first read that.

And also (I can't believe I have to say something that should be perfectly fucking obvious), blaming Jiang Cheng for not being able to stop his mom is motherfucking victim-blaming!!! Jiang Cheng's as much of a victim as Wei Wuxian is, and he is not and never was responsible for anything his mom did, and there's nothing he could have done at all to stop her the same way I couldn't have stopped what happened with me. Victims aren't responsible for what happened to them, it's the actual person behind those events that is at fault.

#jiang cheng #wei wuxian #yunmeng jiang #twin prides of yunmeng #yunmeng shuangjie #yunmeng bros #okay that's enough emotions for one day #this was meant to be a lot more lighthearted than this wtf #mdzs #mdzs spoilers #mdzs meta #forgot to add those three tags oops #cw: parental abuse

[featherfur]

So, uh, just read your tags on that post comparing JC's seclusion to color theory and... *grabby hands* Gimme the angst, dude. TELL ME YOUR THEORIES of WWX and squad trying to get into Yunmeng or even Lotus Pier. WWX trying to "come home" after everything. LET ME READ THE HARSHNESS. Because let's make this as absolutely upsetting as possible. 'cause we all deserve a little Devastating Angstfest. As a treat.

I do wanna preface this with the fact that this is Donghua only, because the act of WWX being awake and the addition of JC in seclusion changes the tune and outcome of how the Jiang Sect would react, because in Novel/CQL canon JC can lie about it or pretend it doesn't affect him, in Donghua it's slammed into the Jiang Sect's faces that their leader has been irreparably hurt. My feelings of Jiang Sect to WWX in the other canon's is a different post.

I'm also writing this in between calls at work so ignore any typos lmao, oh and this is my fourth time rewriting this because I started to ramble and get into the deets and you want angst and I want angst I just Ramble a lot

I'm going to mostly focus on Wei Wuxian and the Jiang Sect because well, i think that's the most interesting because it's pretty much obvious that they wouldn't like LWJ or WN but Wei Wuxian adds spice.

Now, first up, remember that a lot of the Senior disciples are disciples that Wei Wuxian also abandoned when he left. So there's probably some resentment/hurt there and now he's hurt Jiang Cheng again. Their beloved sect leader, to the point that their sect leader abandons them.

Wei Wuxian? He is not Yunmeng Jiang. Not as far as they care. Unless Jiang Cheng himself shows up out of seclusion to take back his position and names Wei Wuxian a Jiang disciple, then he is not one of them. And they're going to say it.

Wei Wuxian wants to come home?

"I'm sorry Master Wei, but Lotus Pier doesn't know what you mean. Only those belonging to Yunmeng Jiang live here." A disciple at the gate says, and the wards glow purple when Wei Wuxian steps too close. Wards that once Wei Wuxian had helped build, wards that once he had stood behind with his brother and grinned about because they felt safe. Those wards are now locking him out, and in front of him are faces he does know.

They served in the war with him, and now their hands are on their swords as they look him in the eye and say "You're not welcome here. Leave."

They're not even mad about him leaving originally, they don't care about the demonic cultivation, they don't care he left them for the Lan's. Yes that hurts, that burns but they can get over it because atleast he's okay and he still cares about them. But hurting Jiang Cheng to the point of seclusion and then leaving them to fuck around Jianghu with the one dude the Jiang Sect can't stand? That crosses a line because it drives home that Wei Wuxian doesn't give a fuck about them, so they don't give a fuck about him either because they can't. If they do they may forgive him and for their sect leader's sake, for all he did for them they will never forgive Wei Wuxian.

He can't walk around Yunmeng territory without feeling their glares, even the ones out of uniform will freeze in their laughter and slide effortlessly into the Jiang Disciple Neutral Stare and watch him. They won't talk no matter how much he cajoles them, they'll glare and scowl and walk away. If he enters the inn, the innkeeper has a choice to make support the Jiang or welcome in the one guy that very much did kill a bunch of people, and well who wouldn't support the Jiang compared to the guy with the worst reputation of the last 100 years?

Yunmeng that once adored Wei Wuxian and treated him to candies and snacks, now takes the cue from the Jiang Disciples and turns from him too. One or two will still take money from him, but that friendly homeliness he once knew is gone.

Now just imagine him trying to check on Jiang Cheng, maybe he didn't hear about the seclusion, he's fucking around Jianghu with Lan Wangji protecting people, Jin Ling is busy trying not to get railroaded by his own sect, Lan Sizhui is with Wen Ning, and Lan Jingyi is Lan first and adventurer second.

So Wei Wuxian comes back and finds out and goes to ask Jiang Cheng what the fuck. He slams into a Lotus Pier ward first and in seconds every guard nearby is there, swords raised before they even realize who it is. Then they realize who it is and their swords don't lower an inch.

The head disciple comes out when Wei Wuxian asks what the hell is going on, and just for angst purposes Wei Wuxian knows them. Knows them from childhood. They used to play together in the lakes, one of the few who survived the burning. A friend, someone Wei Wuxian still cares for so deeply and is so relieved to see alive.

Someone who is looking at him with a cold fury when they once looked up at him with adoration for their da-Shixiong.

"What can we do for you Master Wei?" They ask, and that burns Wei Wuxian

"I want to see Jiang Cheng."

"Grandmaster Jiang doesn't accept visits from traitors." The Head Disciple says, and there's loathing in their words so loud so angry that it even gets through the fury and agony in Wei Wuxian's mind.

He moves without thinking, he steps forward because he wants to march down to his brother and shake him and just go "WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK"

But there's already a sword at his throat, and the head disciple, his once friend, his once fellow disciple, is the one holding it without the barest hint of hesitation. Wei Wuxian stumbles back, out of shock, out of anger, out of horror.

"Out of respect for our Grandmaster," They seethe, "we do not want to kill you. But you will not hurt him again, even if it takes every disciple to stop you. Grandmaster Jiang has nothing to say to anyone who abandons their home. Now leave."

Yunmeng Jiang is not Wei Wuxian's home anymore.

And the only person who could ever offer it again, is locked away from the world by Wei Wuxian's own doing.

#MDZS #Danny answers #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jiang cheng #the untamed #wei wuxian #Jiang Sect #donghua spoilers #Danny has the answers #I feel so bad WWX i Know it's not your fault but THEY DONT KNOW THAT #They just know that you didn't stop whatever happened from happening and that you are friends with #two other ppl notorious for hating JC and you married one of them #It's not WWX's faaaaault I'm sorry I'll write something else nice for you later #but donghua Jiang Sect probably absolutely despises him #I could go even angstier by adding JC finding out but then being too emotionally broken to even stop it even as he internally wants to #but that'll be a Lot and probably end up more like a one shot including actual oc's because not using names is a pain in the ass

[fixielixie]

Wei Wuxian is selfish, actually~ is the deeper meaning of mdzs? I can't believe I had to read this with my own two eyeballs. Exactly how low is the reading comprehension on this site lmfao. Was his decision to give his golden core to Jiang Cheng without telling him Not A Great Idea™? Yes I think so. Objectively giving your "organ" to someone and not telling them is fucked up. But was it selfish? Exactly how? It was arguably the result of his upbringing and him feeling indebted to the Jiangs. He said it himself if I remember correctly that without the Jiangs he wouldn't have a gc anyway so he owes it to them. Which feels like unhealthy attitude to have towards oneself but like the exact opposite of selfishness. If we tried to stretch this to max, one could argue that wei wwx keeping the transfer itself a secret was selfish because he didn't want Jiang Cheng mad at him. But Jiang Cheng was mad at him anyway and if that theory was true, if Wuxian did give up his core for selfish reasons and because he's somehow selfish then this would be the first thing he'd throw into Jiang Cheng's face the second he needs to guilt trip him. You know? Like Jing Huangyao did to Xichen with "Didn't I take care of you?" in the Guanyin temple. sorry for the rant

tbh i think the person who bore the worst of the bad decision of the golden core transfer was wwx himself. its one of the main factors that lead to his downfall and then his death. jc wouldnt have been able to be the sect leader, but it would have been his family pride and his own that would have been hurt in this situation. im sure given time he would have been able to make something out of himself, plus at this stage he was already out of immediate danger, so he wouldn't have been able to fight in the war, but he could have stayed alive but sticking to his sisters side.

wwx tho, through giving up his golden core, was immediately beaten and thrown off a cliff where he had to survive in corpse hell for three months, inventing a heretic path that made him unbelievably powerful but also an enemy because of said unknown power, and then died.

like clearly giving up his core here was the worse option here for everyone but jiang cheng. but like you said, this version of wwx would always give up his golden core for jiang cheng, because he thought it was what was owed to him, that he didnt have any right to a core if jc didnt because without the jiangs he wouldnt have had a chance to cultivate one in the first place. and again like you said, this is a really unhealthy way to look at it, because ultimately the golden core was his and no one elses, he cultivated it using his own talent and merits and how powerful he was really had nothing to do with the jiangs. its the same thought process he had about yzy cuttin off his hand, than he would gladly lose a hand for the sect, because that was what is expected of him. to give up every little bit of himself for the jiang sect, whether or not they ever repaid back that loyalty to him like... at all. he was expected to blindly follow along whether they treated him well or not.

and youre right, if we stretch it you could argue that wwx didnt tell jc about it because he didnt want to have to deal with him getting angry at him. but also, i think the main reason he didnt tell him is because he knew what sort of mentality jc had, and that jc wouldnt see this as a sacrifice wwx was willing to make for the jiang sect, but rather wwx trying to one up him once again. tbh wwx doesnt even view this as a noble sacrifice on his part, he did it because he believed it to be his duty, and i dont really blame him for not wanting to deal with jcs bullshit over it when he could just pop his core into him and they can all go about his life (but heres where wwxs actual flaw is, believe that everyone can let things go as easily as he can. which is clearly not the case, and it leads him into situations such as this one).

and thats also a good point, if he did it for selfish reasons, what was stopping him after he came back to life and jc was trying to capture him, from rubbing it in his face?? trying to make jiang cheng suffer for spending a decade obsessed with finding him and using his own core to whip demonic cultivators in effort to prove it was wwx. why wouldnt he use this to his advantage to try and escape the blame that jc constantly puts on him. because he didnt do it to hold over jiang cheng or to help himself sleep at night, he gave up his core because thats what he believed he should've done as a head disciple/to pay back his debt, thats about as deep as it was for him.

also never apologise for ranting, look at what i post and im sending you back! if anyone should apologise its me D:

#ask #if anyones annoyed by such long posts on their dashes btw just send an ask #and tell me to use the readmore function #so i can stop cloggin up ur dashes

[pharahsgf]

honestlyy it was frustrating that jzx and jc shielded jyl from the truth, esp jc bc he KNEW how wwx was living on top of that he knew he wasn't evil and amassing an army either (which jyl already believed he wasn't but more in Spite of what jc + everyone was saying). I think the most flattering to jyl is that she simply trusted jc to take care of wwx. she didn't need to go to bm bc jc was going. and jc probably told her wwx is the one who wanted to leave the sect and that he was doing fine, which is why he waited jyl to leave before asking if wwx's stab wound healed. jc isn't "protecting" jyl from the truth, he's protecting himself from her disappointment by lying about his involvement in wwx's plight. doesn't help that jyl already thought before they left lotus pier that wwx might not be happy in their sect. she was probably trying to be supportive of his decision. I wonder if jyl would be angry if she'd lived to learn the truth but I think it would take someone like jgy spilling harsh truths in the temple for her to process the idea that jc wasn't just misguided. I think she believes the best in the ppl she loves (no matter what) as a way to protect herself. that's an awesome character flaw and one I'd have loved to explore more if the writing permitted a central woman character to live until the end 😤

jiang cheng lied to the sects by telling them wei wuxian betrayed the cultivation world, and lied to wei wuxian by telling him no one supported him, thereby isolating him from the people who might have otherwise helped him or heard him out. whether he did it to avoid losing face or because he was just mad, it put jiang yanli in a position of having to accept that one of her brothers is not as good as she thought he was - which completely clashes with the trait you mentioned of believing the best in the people she loves.

i just. really fucking want to know what jiang yanli's thoughts were about the wen situation and what wei wuxian was doing. why is this not a thing. she's a major character dammit

#replies #anonymous #i think i've talked before about how jyl would react to finding out jc is just a lil corrupt #i'd like for her to be pissed but she's probably like (denial voice) i'm sure he didn't know what he was doing 🥲

[gingersnapwolves]

So Untamed looks really cool and I want to watch, but I have a problem and idk if you have any tips maybe? I tried watching the first episode (didn't get very far, maybe 15 minutes) and was utterly confused. I think I'm having a hard time keeping track of characters/names? Partially because I'm not used to watching non-English media and partially because it's hard to get an unfamiliar name to stick in my head the first time I see it, maybe? Any tips on figuring out what's going on in ep1?

Friend! I’ll have you know that I had NO FUCKING CLUE what was going on for the entirety of episode one. Literally SO CONFUSED. Nearly stopped watching. However, luckily for you, I am pend-up and bored right now so I have made a guide for you.

First things first: just accept you will be confused during episode one. Or skip it entirely. Along with most of episode 2.

The timeline goes like this:

Episodes 1+2 -> jump back 16 years! -> episodes 3-32ish -> these take place over the course of about 3 years -> jump forward! 13 years! back to where episode 1 started! by this time you have forgotten everything in episode 1 and 2 and you’ll have to rewatch it anyway!

I’m not saying you can’t watch it in order but boy is it easier to understand if you watch it in chronological order instead. But unfortunately the flashback starts about five minutes before the end of episode 2, not just at the beginning of episode 3, so you have to skim through that episode and wait for Wei Wuxian to faint in a field.

Now, a quick guide! I’ve made snapshots from early on in the series so these are the outfits they’ll be in when you meet (most) of them. Here are your protagonists:

Wei Wuxian aka Wei Ying

Precious ADHD child. Wants to be friends with everyone but also is ready to Throw Down at the drop of a hat. Classic disaster bi.

Lan Wangji aka Lan Zhan aka Hanguang-Jun

Mr. Stoic. Usually seen annoyed with Wei Wuxian’s antics. Classic repressed gay.

Quick note on names: almost all the characters have two. They get a name at birth (Wei Ying, Lan Zhan) and later when they come of age they get a courtesy name (Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji), and if they’re super cool they get a title (Hanguang-Jun). I could write a long, long primer on what names are used in what situations but it can basically be summed up as the courtesy name is more formal and respectful, and the title is even more respectful than that, and when Wei Wuxian calls Lan Wangji ‘Lan Zhan’ in episode 4 he’s doing it SPECIFICALLY to be a little shit and get a rise out of Lan Wangji, and oh boy does it work.

Additional sidebar: in the book at least, they are 16ish at this point, I know they don’t look it, but teenagers never look like teenagers on American TV either, so, whatever. Anyway that explains a lot of Wei Wuxian’s behavior lmao.

Their families:

Jiang Cheng also but hardly ever known as Jiang Wanyin

(sidebar: these are not really the best caps because my computer was being a jerk so I was just grabbing the first one that came to hand, sorry for not catching your best side JC)

(Because the story is from Wei Wuxian’s point of view, and he grew up with Jiang Cheng, the less formal name is used even in the prose, hardly anyone ever calls him Jiang Wanyin)

Jiang Cheng is Wei Wuxian’s younger brother (although Wei Wuxian is adopted) who is angry almost all the time because Wei Wuxian gets away with Literally Everything including things he really shouldn’t, and Jiang Cheng has massive jealousy and resentment issues which are pretty much his mother’s fault. He’s not a bad guy but oh boy, board the Issues Train.

Jiang Yanli (women do not get courtesy names)

(or maybe this is her courtesy name? Please correct me if I’m wrong)

Jiang Yanli is their older sister. She is made of sunshine and rainbows.

Notes on this family: Clan Leader Jiang was friends with Wei Wuxian’s parents. When they died, he took in Wei Wuxian. His wife is Big Mad About This because she suspects (probably correctly) that Clan Leader Jiang was in love with Wei Wuxian’s mother. However, as Wei Wuxian’s mother is now dead, she should Get Over This. Spoiler alert: she doesn’t. This causes lots and lots of problems. Like. Half the series probably could have been avoided type of problems.

Lan Xichen aka Zewu-Jun

Lan Wangji’s older brother. Not Actually a Himbo because he’s not actually dumb. He possesses multiple brain cells. He just Never Uses Them. Very soft and gentle, would like to protect. He’s the Clan Leader even though he’s much younger than most of the other Clan Leaders because their father is either dead or in seclusion depending on if you’re in book or TV show canon.

Lan Qiren

Their extremely strict uncle who raised them and probably didn’t mean to fuck them up for life but probably did.

He’s known to be a good teacher which is why everyone in the teenager arc is there in the first place for Sword Wizard school.

Sidebar: nobody in this show really ages. They’ve done some stuff with makeup and hair to show the time change before and after the skip but that’s all. This is a genre thing; once Sword Wizards have attained a certain level of Sword Wizardry, they stop aging.

Other Important Characters:

Nie Huaisang

Young master of the Nie clan. He is Their Soft Friend during Sword Wizard school.

Jin Zixuan

Heir to the massive Jin clan. He is a dick in the first arc. Gets better later but boy does it take some time. He is betrothed to Jiang Yanli but feels it’s below his station so he’s a jerk to her a lot of the time.

Meng Yao

Jin Zixuan’s illegitimate half-brother. Their dad is a slut. And I don’t mean to slut shame, but he is a Bad Person also, and doesn’t care about his illegitimate children, which tends to cause problems. Meng Yao tried to join the Jin clan when he came of age but Dad Slut refused to allow him in, so he went to serve the Nie Clan instead. But, he is not technically a young master like all these other characters and is more of a high-ranking servant.

Wen Ruohan

The Big Evil of Part One, easily identifiable by his outfit, Lava Palace, and propensity to make zombies

Wen Chao

His super obnoxious kid who goes around threatening people and pissing me off.

Wen Qing

Badass doctor with a big heart who’s serving Big Evil because a) he took her and her brother in after her parents were killed, and b) her brother is basically a hostage.

Wen Ning

Her brother who nearly had his soul sucked out by a ghost one (1) time and as a result is kind of delicate and fragile, but always wants to help others.

Xue Yang

An Edgelord who works for Wen Ruohan and just wants people to stop kinkshaming him for his homicidal tendencies.

These are all the characters you really have to known for the first arc (Sword Wizard school) and by the time you get to episode 6 or 7 you will have gotten used to the names and stuff, I promise. It just takes some time. The rest of the characters are introduced slowly, one at a time, so you don’t get as overwhelmed.

Anyway! I hope this helps! I would really recommend just skipping to the end of episode two (again, watch for Wei Wuxian fainting in a field, that’s your cue that the flashback is about to start) and watching from there, then when you get to the time skip, just go back and watch episodes 1 and 2.

Let me know if you have any questions as I’m always happy to answer them!

[plan-d-to-i]

hey plan! as i continued my scrolling through twitter (thinking that there might be some accurate representation of the rotted grape, but *sigh* can still find any) i found this post instead and can i ask your opinion of this?

i just felt so mad reading this. them thinking that jc wanted to "protect" wwx is so dumb?? like didn't jc want wwx to let him go back to the sect because he didn't want to deal with the wens who he OWES HIS LIFE TO?? and then these clowns saying wwx pUbLiCly hUmiLiaTed jc like didn't jc humiliated himself because orchestrated the death of his saviors?? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE GRAPE LOVERS because without wwx wn & wq's combined help, your UwU sAd bAbY gRaPe would be coreless and probably DEAD (sorry if it got long because of my rant here but i truly do want to hear your opinion on this)

and i present this art i found on twitter where wwx calls out jc for being a homophobe https://twitter.com/farisaki/status/1445458768322445325?t=mWTeCTAE3HMmwtfZ9ZbiDg&s=19

haha I'm sorry to say but your first mistake was continuing to scroll through twitter. -2/10 do not recommend

Like far be it from me to dampen the enthusiasm of this person trying to reinvent the wheel w their groundbreaking think piece, but wtf are they talking about. Honestly I remember some other beacon of wisdom saying: "how come WWX was so dumb and didn't just kidnap a random Wen soldier and make WQ use their core for the transfer?"- like they didn't grasp that the whole thing hinged on the willing participation of the donor. Same here.

Wei Wuxian knew jiang cheng's character very well. At worst he's always seen the jiangs through rose tinted lenses. So while WWX would know very well jc wouldn't actively help him save the Wens since nothing in their past half lifetime of knowing each other had ever shown jc to give two fucks about helping people, he probably only didn't imagine jc would leave him with no option to help them other than defection. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, jc didn't bring any compromise to the table that included saving the Wens other than for WWX to cut ties with the Clan. jc doesn't help the Wens because he DOESN'T WANT TO not because he can't. WWX makes it clear that the reason he's defecting isn't because he wants to but because he doesn't want to involve YunmengJiang and jc agrees. "“Jiang Cheng’s tone was indifferent, “Then let’s arrange for a duel.” jc's "compromise" was I'll destroy Wen Ning for you, and turn in the rest of the Wens- that jc in his own words called “the old, the weak, the women, and the children.”- to their death or you're out on your ass and WWX understood him.

“Jiang Cheng, “You burn this corpse right now and return to them all these leftovers of the Wen Sect. That’s the only way to make the subject die!” As he spoke, he raised his sword again, preparing to attack.”

“However, Wei WuXian clenched his wrist, “Are you joking?! If we return Wen Qing and the others to them, they’d meet nothing but a dead end!”

Jiang Cheng, “I doubt you’ll even return all of them. Why do you care what kind of end they meet? A dead end it is, then—what does it have to do with you?!”

Lmao- "I NEVER see this take. That WWX acted like a rogue agent" yes you absurd, classist, intellectual dead zone, bc it's a ridiculous take that the story does not intend any reader with a modicum of understanding or empathy to take. The author thought surely people will GET why it's nifty of WWX to want to save these innocent, vulnerable people: these nice siblings that helped them, this sweet Granny, this cute toddler etc. jc himself doesn't disagree that they owe the Wens a debt!

“Wei WuXian finally lost his temper, “Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you’re talking about?! Take it back—don’t make me give you a thrashing! Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Uncle Jiang’s and Madam Yu’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?!”

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism!”

These people are somehow more self absorbed than jc. So pathetically selfish they can't even stand altruism and heroism in a fucking fantasy novel.

#mdzs #answers #Wei Wuxian #canon jiang cheng

[plan-d-to-i]

I think they changed it to 'ready to fight JL' but I'm pretty sure anon's talking about this one: songofclarity (.) tumblr (.) com/post/665617926822510592/i-read-your-post-about-jiang-chengs-seclusion-and

Ah, thank you! (Re THIS post)

oof, I could've gone the rest of my days without reading that trip through the land of fantasy and delusion that jc stans live in.

"Key points that prove Wei Wuxian cared: he stayed" >:0

IT WAS A HOSTAGE SITUATION LMFAOOOOO.

What's the point of jc stans including quotes at this point when they're not going to interpret them correctly anyway? jc could be telling WWX “FUCK OFF AND DIE" and they'd be like "omg! he cares! I only tell people I love to fuck off and die 🥺"

"I have never interpreted this conversation and scene as Wei Wuxian just wanting to forget it all so he can live happily ever after with Lan Wangji. Wei Wuxian found a new way to live and he’s trying to share this with Jiang Cheng." -hahah haven't interpreted anything else correctly so far either why start now.

"He trusted Wei Wuxian. He never betrayed him. Even when Wei Wuxian returned, Jiang Cheng never betrayed his identity or tried to hurt him."

YES Successfully strategizing a siege based on his knowledge of WWX and his weaknesses and leading it with the express purpose of killing him and spending 13 years hunting and torturing anyone who might be WWX is actually just super supportive behavior. Let's get one thing clear. JC didn't tell anyone WWX returned because NO ONE would have believed him. JIN LING didn't believe him. HIS OWN NEPHEW THOUGHT HE WAS FUCKING NUTS. He already accused MXY/WWX of being WWX and whipped him with Zidian in front of a big ass crowd of people and ZERO things happened. Everyone already thought he was a "mad dog" chasing after anyone he suspected of demonic cultivation in case they were WWX. JGY himself calls jc a mad dog. Add to that, WWX was under the protection of LWJ who was the bother of LXC who was the sworn brother of JGY who was the CHIEF CULTIVATOR- jc would only look like the rabid moron that he was if he stared raging about how MXY is WWX. Only his stans would be inane enough to suggest this meant he cared.

The concern of jc stans with canon at this juncture is ironic considering the head canons they try to shove into canon. It's not that WWX hates jiang cheng, he's never hated him, he just doesn't want him in his life. They have completely different world views, they were always going to grow apart. That relationship was 99.9% work for WWX. More importantly WWX has found someone whose world views match his and who is the only person he wants to be with and that's Lan Wangji. WWX’s relationship to jc is NOT the central one in the story, the meeting of hearts and minds between Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji is. The donghua distilled WWX's 2 encounters with jc to move on to the main event: WangXian. Just like WangXian moved on at the end of the novel without looking back.

“After a moment of hesitation, his lips moved slightly, as though he wanted to say something else. However, Wei WuXian had already turned to Lan WangJi.”

#mdzs #answers #jiang cheng #naturally don't take hate to these accounts just salt it up in your own corners. xx

[fixielixie]

I know lot of jc apologist come from cql but honestly I watched cql long before reading mdzs and it still didn't make me very sympathetic to him? I liked how complicated he was and his entitlement made him interesting to psychoanalyze buuuuut that's about it. Didn't he literally set a dog on wwx after capturing him? Among other things? In a way that was really fucking parallel to the one with wen chao? I know fairy is no cgi hellhound but it didn't make a difference to wwx and jc must have been at least aware? He's basically just madame yu w/ a dick and more power. Novel him even more so. I decently read a take about op being mad so many reconciliation fics have jc do all the work when wwx should actually grovel first and I had to do a tripple take. Still not convinced it wasn't actual jiang cheng writing that post

i think a lot of the sympathy comes from just how hard cql pushed wei wuxians connection to lotus pier, they made him really sentimental over it and you see him constantly being haunted by his time there and his 'lost family'. while in the novel, wwx was used to jumping around and making a space for himself anywhere. he spent about ten years in lotus pier, and at least a few of those were in a time of war. i have no doubt he was fond of him earlier years in lotus pier, mostly because he was mostly free to act as the child he was. but cql puts a high emphasis on both wwx and jcs relationship and the trio sibling dynamic in general. so i think that no only humanises jiang cheng in particular, but also makes it more likely for people to feel sorry for him, especially when it comes to wwx deflecting. in the untamed they paint it as this huge tragedy, and essentially a mistake on wwxs part, emphasised more by the fact that the timeline is more janky in cql so it kinda seems like the second wwx deflects from the jiang sect everything goes wrong for him. meanwhile in the novel wwx peacefully lives in the burial mounds for over two years after he leaves the jiang sect.

wei wuxian never really makes it out that he misses being a part of the jiang sect, im sure he thinks about how much more simple his life would have been if he could have continued to be their head disciple, but he made his choices and doesnt resent the life he chose. its why he makes no move to grovel to jiang cheng once he comes to life, he doesn't see himself as part of the jiangs anymore and hes happy with that, its not like he was ever alone. wei wuxian is like the personification of chosen family, and he actively chose not to have jiang cheng as part of that family anymore. i know a lot of people defend jiang chengs actions against wwx after he came back as him "being desperate to make sure it was wwx bc he just wanted his brother back uwu", they do the same with the fact that he kept chenqing (even tho in the extras we see that jc actually only kept the flute because he thought that out of everything wwx would go looking for the first, and then he would be able to take him down, falsely assuming that wwx would care enough about his fluet to put himself at risk but thats a different post). and i think people who watch cql do this bc idk the actor for jc looking at wwx sadly sometimes and cries more. jiang cheng sympathisers assume that jiang cheng is owed everything by everyone because he had a 'rough time' and is 'all alone' like the fact that his ending ends with him being alone isnt entirely his own doing.

#ask #jiang cheng meta #im so sorry for going on for so long