#second age sauron specifically

[weepylucifer]

i am the righteous hand of god (hell's comin' with me) is a sauron vibes song. refuses to elaborate

#second age sauron specifically #posts by me #annatar unmasking like. i am the righteous hand of god (he means melkor). i am the devil that you forgot

[annoyinglandmagazine]

I like to think Elrond has punched Sauron in the face. Specifically during the whole Annatar period of time. I feel like Sauron definitely tried to convince Elrond to work with him. Being a part Maia through Luthien (who Sauron definitely still holds a grudge against) would be enough but he’s also one of Fingolfin’s descendants not even to get started on the Edain side of things. And then he sees him fight and the style is almost identical to that of Maedhros Feanorion. So Annatar almost definitely approached him.

And when he tries this he probably tries to probe at all Elrond’s issues. There are a lot of issues to probe at. But Elrond just gets angry. How dare this sketchy motherfucker start trying to convince me my parents didn’t care about me. That’s my emotional trauma and I’ll work through it myself thank you very much. He also knew something was up with this guy the second he met him. Every single bone in his body was telling him to slit this guy’s throat where he stood. He restrains himself purely to avoid causing an incident for Gil Galad to deal with. He settles for decking him and then walking away. He is very much done with enchanted jewellery made by sketchy people coming to elf lords in disguise. He had enough of that in the first age.

I just feel like the Council of Elrond gets way funnier if when Elrond’s doing his recap he just drops in ‘and then I broke darkness personified’s nose,’ before continuing as if he hadn’t said anything. Sauron maintains a healthy wariness of Elrond into the third age. Yes Arwen looks like Luthien and that’s scary but she also looks like a combination of her father and Galadriel and if that’s not terrifying nothing is.

#Silmarillion #elrond peredhel #Bamf elrond #annatar #sauron #arwen undomiel #council of elrond #shitpost #tolkien

[demonscantgothere]

Is Celebrian as Sauron's daughter just a crack theory or is there any merit to it?

Oooooooh, I'm so glad you asked, anon, because let me explain something very interesting to you!

The rings of power were roughly forged in the Second Age between the years 1500/1600. At the time, it is explained that Celeborn and Galadriel were together.

Tolkien had a lot of discrepancies with Celebrían. A lot. First of all, what little he wrote of her is mostly not even official canon but from unfinished manuscripts and letters. For instance, in some stories she has a brother Amroth, but those stories were de-canonized because Tolkien changed his mind and later made Amroth the son of Amdír instead of Celeborn and Galadriel.

The first mention of Celebrían is around the Second Age 1350-1400 when she was traveling alone with her mother, Galadriel, through Khazad-dûm. At this time, Celeborn was not with them. Mind you, the very first mention of her, there's no father involved. Her and her mother, Galadriel, are traveling alone together. IN FACT, Celebrían and Galadriel wander alone together for a couple hundred of years, looking for Celeborn. The next mention of Celebrían is in the Second Age in 1700, after the forging of the Rings, and it is mentioned specifically by Tolkien that they were trying to find Celeborn, but Tolkien never explains why Celeborn isn't with them in the first place. Dude just goes missing for a couple hundred of years! (Hmm, sounds like the show, doesn't it?)

Celebrían isn't mentioned again until the Third Age when she marries Elrond in 2500. At this point, Galadriel and Celeborn have finally been reunited.

So, yes, there's lots of juicy discrepancies with Tolkien's timelines involving Celebrían because it was just all over the place and Celeborn was nowhere to be found.

#saurondriel #haladriel #sauron x galadriel #galadriel x sauron #galadriel x halbrand #halbrand x galadriel #celebrian #sauron #galadriel #celeborn #the rings of power #rings of power #trop #j.r.r. tolkien #celebrian meta #celebrian as sauron's daughter meta

[borisbubbles]

Eurovision 2024: #06 & #05

06. SWEDEN Loreen - "Tattoo" 1st place

Decade Ranking: 19/116 [above Halo, below Adrenalina]

Alright, fine, we've arrived at Loreen. There are plenty of conflicting emotions swirling around in my head, but overall, yeah, you know how I feel about her. It hasn't changed. She's very good, but I'm not obsessed with her. This is where those entries rank.

Let's tackle the elephant in the room: Tattoo is a good song and a boring, uninspiring winner. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Loreen's victory was determined the second she won Melfest, by default. It was unsatisfactory for two reasons:

(1) The moment Loreen was picked the casuals that remembered "Euphoria" immediately started praising her while ignoring everyone else, and this of course snowballed into the biggest jury coronation since Salvador. Lol that the same casuals that were obsessed with Tattoo preshow became upset when she beat Käärijä. What else did you think was going to happen? it was YOU who kept touting her as the best without giving as much as dismissive look at her competition, of course the Eye of Sauron was fixated on her and no one else.

(2) Käärijä. For better or for worse, this year will be remembered as the year Cha Cha Cha was robbed by the juries for the sake of Sweden. Käärijä was not without his own set of problems which directly led to his demise (which we'll tackle when we get to him because this post is about Loreen), but he WAS the year and it was his loss specifically that left a bad aftertaste in many mouths. It's always better when the underdog beats the overdog, and not the other way around.

Once the dust settled, everyone pledged fealty to the crazyparty Fin while "Tattoo" was quickly replaced as the basic gay anthem by "Padam Padam".

However, neither of those things are particularly Loreen's fault?

What I can ascertain is that Tattoo is not Euphoria, obviously. A lot of the love for Tattoo was spillover Euphoria nostalgia. That's fine, but I meant their thematic differences went understated - Euphoria was an ode to the eternity of love, while Tattoo specifically is about the love fracturing apart and Loreen's inabilty to move on - in other words "Euphoria" was a victory, while "Tattoo" always felt like more of a defeat. It's a subtle difference, but one that should always lead to Euphoria being ranked AHEAD of Tattoo, jesus christ ESC250 voters.

However, this is still Loreen, and a lesser Loreen is still lowkey epic. Eventhough "Tattoo" is probably the least good Loreen song, (technically because it's a Cazzi Opeia song with a Loreen sound - "You're stuck on me like a tatoo-oo-oo that is a Cazzi hook if ever there was), it is still a good song. Loreen proved although she's now at an age where her memory is starting to fail her, forgetting essentials such as clipping her fingernails and paying her taxes, she still has the attitude and flat stomach of a cougar ready to pounce. All credits for Tattoo's successes belong to her, SJB and no one else.

And, not unimportantly in a audio-visual medium such as Eurovision, Tattoo also looked really good on the stage. It had A Vision, which is what every winner needs nowadays. Again, the staging is great but also... not that grat lol - it's not the best staging ever. It's not better than Euphoria's or even Vesna's that we'll talk about later. Nevertheless, the song was beautifully framed under the confined space of that impromptu photocopier and Loreen's choreography. The staging was dynamic, artistic and gave the impression real stakes were involved. It Understood The Assignment. It made the song *pop*.

I specifically really LOVE the wide shot during the bridge that really anchors the devastation and desolation she sings about.

It's one of those money shots linger in your mind after the song has ended.

So overall, yeah, Loreen is not my winner or even a top fiver for me, but oh well, whatever? She was a dull winner compared to Käärijä but not an undeserving one. She's still a solid eight-and-a-half out of ten. She alone provided the triple threat of Good composition, Stunning Act and Killer Execution, so ofc juries flocked to her if they're instructed to assess the overal package. If you still think they robbed Käärijä (they did not.) remember that Loreen was solidly second in nearly every televote behind him. If he were destined to always lose Eurovision 2023 like I now believe he was, it's definitely only Loreen who should have taken the W here.

-------------------------------

05. AUSTRALIA Voyager - "Promise" 9th place

Decade Ranking: 17/116 [Above Adrenalina, below Manizha]

Sometimes the reason is "I like music." Many were surprised Voyager came top 10, but not I. To repeat a common question one final time:

HAVE YOU HEARD THE SONG?!?

Well-executed ProgMetal, at Eurovision! By a charismatic lead! Of course it was going to get a good chunk of jury votes from a group of people that know more music beyond what gets radio airplay. As Danny sings, if you haven't done anything like this before, you haven't been alive, sillies!

Going into the contest though, I wasn't fully sure Australia would grab the top 10 I envisioned for them. Like sure, I saw the vision. But my predictions come from Antwerp, not Delphi and the visions I see don't always come to pass. Voyager were hit the hardest by the fandom's latent misandry for daring to be men (+ Simone). Then again, if the fandom got their way, "Padam Padam" would win every year (lol can you imagine what a nightmare that meta would be? especially because "Padam Padam" isn't even that good to begin with) and not songs that are effectively Synthwave with Metal instrumentation. This is a combo that leads to immersive moodpieces, and not the high energy spikes you might expect from metal.

But what this blog if not for its appreciation for moodpieces and what was "Promise" if not A Mood immortalized by Voyager into An Experience. Danny playing the keytar on the bonnet of his delorean, or nearly choking on a chicken sandwich while getting 12 Portuguese points, THOSE are MY little joys in life.

Everything on stage suits a wholesome song about ~promising your loved ones you're in this life's adventure together, ride or die~, which as a message hits home even harder since Danny's cancer diagonosis (not like this affected their placement here - Australia were coming 5th on this ranking since the beginning).

And let's be honest, "Promise" is a just really good song that doesn't need frills or embellishments, but it got those anyway with everyone's fun adlibs.

It's like S10 or MARO, not the flashiest entry nor the most iconic staging, but never the less, the personality came through well enough to merit revisitations when I have a craving for it. Besides, we need a diverse array of genres at Eurovision, to ensure the bar remains high and we don't get a year full of Liars and Firefighters. "Promise" defo fit that bill well. It was good to have A Real Song into the mix, and one that was very deservedly was rewarded with a top ten placement.

If you think that a bad result, then that's fine. I agree with you, but mostly because I think Australia should have come top five and were robbed by the televote. 🙂

THE RANKING

#ESC #Eurovision #Eurovision Song Contest #BorisBubbles #ESC 2023 #Eurovision 2023 #Liverpool 2023 #Sweden #Loreen #Tattoo #Australia #Voyager #Promise

[runawaymun]

if nobody's been here yet I'm gonna be very cringe and on brand and ask about the Partake Prequel

also Rivendell's Tiny Tearaway sounds DELIGHTFUL

Ahhhh thank you!

Ask me about my not-yet-written-fics from this list

The Partake Prequel

(also if you wanted to know more about Rivendell's tiny tearaway just lmk I can make another post for that haha. But I am glad it sounds good!!!)

(cw: discussions of pretty abusive dynamics and questionable consent, also discussion of sex)

so this only exists in my head because a) I'm morbidly curious and have a fascination with the psychology of messed up relationships and b) I am a masochist.

I am just constantly thinking about how the fuck We Got Here when it comes to To Partake. Like how do things get to a point where it's this fucked up and messy and tangly and Bad?

and of course there are bits and snatches that are mixed in to Partake -- like little glimpses into the backstory of Elrond and Gil's situationship, but I want to know more specifically how we got to where we are now.

We know that Elrond started pining after Gil sometime in the late first age when he was roughly in between the age of fifty and seventy. Which...for a Peredhel is a perfectly acceptable age to be sexual (Elwing and Dior had kids and were married by 30). But from an Elvish perspective (i,e. Gil's) that's a baby.

Literally he does not think about anyone else. This is a somewhat unhealthy obsession already. There's a fealty-kink wrapped up in here somehow that's all messily combined with the fact that Gil is currently the only adult who is really present in Elrond's life (if we're going with ROP's timeline Galadriel seems to fuck off to hunt Sauron shortly after Morgoth's imprisonment in the void, and you know...Earendil is busy Earendiling)

So to start I don't think Gil even really saw anything with Elrond as being on the table until sometime in the very early second age, after he appoints Elrond as herald. It's unclear when this happened -- I couldn't find a date for it. But I presume it to be sometime after Lindon is founded and Mithlond constructed and certainly after Elros sailed for Numenor (Elrond would have been emotionally vulnerable and attached to Gil-Galad even more -- and in my head Elros would not have approved of anything going on between Elrond and Gil-Galad so that's very off limits until he's gone)

But--- with Elros gone indefinitely, yeah Elrond gets more attached to Gil.

They're still not sexual yet though.

Elrond is taking regular trips to Numenor etc.

So I generally imagine that things really Began between the two of them sometime shortly after SA 432, when Elrond is around 500 years old. He's "mature" at this point in Elvish terms, and Elros has just died -- so, unhinged and probably at one of his lowest points.

SEX CW: I have a VERY firm idea in my head which I was planning to make a oneshot of. But Elrond at this point does get Very Horny about Gil and starts masturbating about it sometime around here. Gil catches him and that's how....uhhhh things start.

Because OBVIOUSLY (Gil brain here) he is into Gil and THEREFORE this is a PERFECTLY NORMAL and FINE thing to do!

Plus he is OF. AGE.

Nevermind the fact that Elrond is incredibly unstable and vulnerable and depressed & still extremely young, completely inexperienced, and there's some really fucky power dynamics -- all of which affect his ability to consent properly to ANYTHING.

So that's how it starts. They just start having sex. I think nobody really knows about it at this point.

(we start with mostly just Gil on the receiving end of some oral sex that Elrond is getting rapidly better at)

Gil's the one to broach anything more than that and Elrond is down for anything as long as Gil is happy.

rumors do start circulating at this point but absolutely nobody is keen to confront them about it.

I feel like there's potential here for Galadriel to catch wind of things, directly ask, and for Elrond to deny absolutely everything.

If she asked Gil there's no way that he'd admit that anything is going on either because she makes him fear for his life haha.

Elrond has been actively suppressing links to Melian at this point because it freaks out most Elves -- and because Gil doesn't like it.

At some point Gil broaches-- and by broaches what I really mean here is tries (he doesn't ASK!!) an osanwe link. Likely either during or just after sex.

Elrond does not know any better and his brain is full of dopamine and he thinks this is AWESOME. The king wants to be EVEN MORE INTIMATE

boom osanwe link. Far more of an osanwe link than they ever should have had.

boom immediate dissonance which is painful for Gil and so he assumes it is painful for Elrond

Elrond has not had enough osanwe experience to know this is pretty insular to the specific way his and Gil's Themes don't mesh.

"Let me fix it ok?" "Oh god please fix it"

Also there's the undertone here of Gil doesn't like it and Elrond feeling the need to manage his emotions and divest himself of anything displeasing even if that's his fucking Theme.

Hence the theme fuckery begins.

And things really really really start to devolve with their relationship.

Like I imagine in the beginning Gil was pretty cautious and careful -- not in a lovey dovey way but he's not wholly inconsiderate and it's within his Partake characterization that he doesn't like to hurt his partner unless it's in a fun kinky way. He also does not get off on someone being scared. That's an ick for him. So initially he would be careful.

But Elrond starts getting really good at masking things and figuring out that Gil likes to be rough.

And of course, anything for Gil.

Do you see where we're going.

Well and it's compounded by the fact that Elrond does actually like it, too. It just scares him. So he as a lot of really confusing feelings going on that he doesn't know how to handle and there's also a lot of shame wrapped up in it too

And obviously Gil is not um. Guiding him through this in the way that a more experienced partner who is sometimes building scenes and domming should.

And again -- there's that messy thing of "I need to please you in absolutely every way possible and also clearly my differences are Bad, and therefore I must mask all of them as best I can and keep up with my work demands because being useful is better than being loved."

(Which is a lesson he learned from literally everyone, even Elros in the end. It is not a lesson that Elros meant to teach him. But Elros loved him. And then he left.)

Anyway that's as far as I've gotten. The beginning is much more specific and it gets more nebulous as we get closer to the Partake timeline, but it's very easy for me to see the trajectory of their relationship, and that's really what I want to explore.

OHHHH also the undertone of codependency because Elrond and Gil are both fundamentally isolated and find solace in each other. And Gil isolates Elrond further to ensure that He Will Not Be Left. Because Gil is afraid of being inadequate and has literally no one else except like, Cirdan, who cares for him so deeply. (I mean, he would. If he wasn't an asshole. But you get where I am going with this.)

Yeah. Sorry.

There is no happy ending to this fic it is just a dissection of how we get from point A to point B. The happy ending would be Partake alkdhg.

#finally actually have time to respond to this today #to partake #partake prequel fic #cw abuse mention #cw sex mention #Gil is a very bad partner #and by that I mean he strategically isolates people because he is fundamentally afraid of being left alone #and Elrond is uniquely vulnerable to being isolated #because he also has the same fundamental fear #Gil responds to that fear by needing to control everything around him #and Elrond responds to that fear by making himself into an exact mirror image of whomever he is trying to form an attachment with #this is a horrible combination

[lesbiansforboromir]

Regarding your last ask, when did sauron seem so hopeless? Was it somewhere in the text? Wasn't he at the height of his hubris just doing whatever the hell he wanted in middle earth, enjoying his success and just having a good time.

Oh I'm not describing a specific aspect of the text, I was more extrapolating from what the text says that he must have an amount of despair for his end goal. He certainly is not enjoying any success either. 'Success' is extremely relative, Sauron might have been entirely full of his own hubris, but that internally would have made his actual accomplishments appear extremely meager. Like yes, he is definitely causing untold misery and death continent wide, but that is not his actual goal. His goal is total control and domination, which he never succeeds in doing to any of the 'faithful' peoples, only to those in the south and east who in the majority have been worshipping Morgoth and then Sauron for most of time whilst being entirely abandoned by the Valar. In fact! Sometimes he does not even have control over them! Sauron has to historically suffer a great deal of ego-brutalising moments in order to further his causes, debasing himself in front of Pharazon, being laughed at by orcs (that is a canonical thing that happens, actually the quote is so funny you gotta see it; […] The Eastern Orcs, who had not experienced the power and terror of the Eldar, or the valor of the Edain, were not subservient to Sauron - while he was obliged for the cozening of Western Men and Elves to wear as fair form and countenance as he could, they despised him and laughed at him, lmao) when he tries to re-dominate them during the early second age, and in the end none of those things actually work! He gets defeated by Numenor, he gets destroyed with an island and loses his form, he gets defeated by a new country only 100 years old and loses his OTHER form, he has to become a nasty little forest necromancer for a while just to cope, neither dragons nor balrogs will work with him unless he gets to beg them first and they get killed before he can do that. Any victories he achieves, destroying Arnor for example, are then immediately tempered by defeat (battle of Fornost). And then also according to texts, Sauron is tormented by his own longing for the ring as well! He is not a creature that gets to relax, nor can he really.

I think I should also say that like.. the kind of evil Sauron is into is supposed to feel terrible canonically. He might outwardly show a haughty demeanor, but Sauron is constantly aggrieved by what he lacks, in a similar way to Morgoth being perpetually terrified and discontented. And this is textual, the discontent and rampant obsession is why they rebelled in the first place, neither of them are beings that are happy to rest when they havent even achieved what they wanted too. And as I said before, that achievement is impossible. Sauron and Morgoth did not have the bliss of not knowing about fate and the rule of Eru etc, he's their dad. They had the hubris to believe that they could defeat fate itself, but they also had to be somewhat aware that that was at least an unimaginably monumental task. So no! I'm afraid, even if he was at the height of his hubris, that is not a pleasant place to be and he was not able to do anything he wanted really. He was consumed 24/7 by his schemes or what he was owed or his losses or indeed his lack of the ring and I dont think he felt a single moment of peace from the moment he left Valinor till now.

#chats #Anonymous

[elerrinacrownedwithstars]

Galadriel in the Rings of Power, part 3: Women's stories don't matter

This post continues my analysis of Galadriel as she is portrayed in the Amazon series The Rings of Power - and why I think it is so very bad. Part 1 focused on the the portrayal of her being a warrior, and the many problems it creates for her character and possibly even for LOTR, whereas part 2 argued that what is supposed to be war trauma is actually just an awful personality.

Part 1 x Part 2

This post will examine the rather misogynistic implications of the show's changes to Galadriel's story.

I will post my arguments in a few different posts, because that should make the whole much more readable. I will use the tags #anti rop and #anti rings of power for the benefit of those who may want to filter my posts.

If you like Amazon Rings of Power, I have no issue with that; I only take issue with how a character I've loved for over a decade is portrayed in this show.

3. By erasing Melian and Celebrían from Galadriel's story, the show undermines meaningful relationships between women and implies that women's stories are not worth telling unless their occupation fits masculine ideals. 

Common criticism of Tolkien is the lack of female characters in his legendarium (although there are many very compelling female characters in The Silmarillion, including Galadriel). But Amazon has actually one-upped him in this by erasing meaningful relationships Galadriel has with her mentor and her daughter. As stated in part 1 of this series, Melian's absence from Galadriel's life creates problems for The Lord of the Rings because without Melian, she doesn't have the experience and skills she needs to have in order to help the Fellowship (and ultimately contribute to the success of the quest to destroy the Ring). Needless to say, it's problematic to undermine skills, art and crafts that are specifically linked to feminine sphere, especially when this is done so that a character fits masculine ideals.

All ROP!Galadriel's relationships are with and about men: her dead (but living in Valinor) brother, her grudging subordinates, some kind of friendship between her and Elrond although there seems to be a lack of mutual respect, the manipulative and ultimately very detrimental nonsense with Halbrand/Sauron, and Gil-galad who appears to view her as a problem to be solved, not an asset. She has no female friends and her relationship with Míriel is ambivalent at best. (Can you imagine the interactions Galadriel might have had with Dísa, though? It's a tantalising thought. It could have also been used as a way to establish why Galadriel is so respectful of Gimli.)

As stated before, at this point of her story, Galadriel should be married and mother to a grown daughter. There is some variation about the timeline, thanks to Tolkien's shifting ideas about Galadriel's history, but it is safe to say that her marriage to Celeborn and Celebrían's birth took place in the early centuries of the Second Age. In part 1, I also argued that in the show's timeline, the time she would have had with Celeborn would not have been enough to marry, especially if he was actually lost in the wars of the First Age. I find it very poor writing that the show fixates on the few lines about Galadriel's athletic feats, but then ignores Tolkien's fairly clear writing on how Elves did not marry or have children when they were preoccupied with war.

Be that as it may, ROP does allow Galadriel to be married (however briefly), but not a parent. The absence of Celebrían leads me to believe that she is born at some later time during the show - and the cynic in me is convinced that the show will use motherhood as a solution to Galadriel's issues, enabling her transformation into the powerful Elven queen - as if becoming a mother is a fulfillment of woman's story, not a part of it. But even if children are supposedly a woman's higher calling, masculine traits and occupations are still more important and more compelling. Hence the part of Galadriel's story that involves motherhood is delayed to a much later time, so that she may run around Middle-earth, swinging a sword and pursuing a revenge fantasy (which, of course, ultimately fails, at least in the sense that she does not get to personally bring down Sauron). 

If you ask me, it's a particularly bad move to change a woman's story so that she is presented as an action hero and her womanhood and parenthood are a resolution of her life, not the intrinsic part of it. 

4. ROP!Galadriel's motives and agenda are not about herself, but about men. 

In The Silmarillion, it is shown that Galadriel is proud and ambitious, and wants to rule her own realm in Middle-earth. She wants to try her skills outside the safety of Valinor and build something of her own. After the War of Wrath, she refuses the pardon of Valar and remains in Middle-earth, because she is still proud: she believes that if she returns to the Blessed Lands, it would be as a shamed Exile who does not even have the permission to dwell in Aman proper but in Tol Eressëa. However, in Middle-earth she is still mighty and powerful, respected by both Elves and Men. She still wants to be an active participant in the events of Middle-earth and shape the course of the future. Her ambition and pride are not yet spent: she won't take "the second best" in the Undying Lands, when she can still stand at the top of the food chain in Middle-earth. 

There is also the version that Galadriel is actively banned from returning to Valinor as a leader of the rebellion. Later on Tolkien's thinking of her story changes further and Galadriel's desire to sail for Middle-earth is unrelated to the unrest of Noldor and she is not presented as a rebel leader. This late version, I think, is not as compelling and does contradict The Lord of the Rings. FOTR appears to derive from the version where there's a ban against Galadriel's return into the West, where she now yearns to go back after millenia of exile. But when she rejects the Ring and the temptation of becoming a terrible dark queen in her own right, she "passes the test", she will diminish and go into the West. In other words, she finally rejects her own pride and ambition. Moreover, this refusal and the crucial help she gives to the Fellowship are said to be the reason she is allowed to sail in the end of ROTK. 

All the same, no matter what version by Tolkien you look at, in canon Galadriel is the mistress of her own fate and her ambitions, and her flaws and her overcoming them are her own. Galadriel's story is about Galadriel. 

It has been extensively argued and shown in other posts criticising the show how Galadriel's agency is thrown out of the window so that all she does in ROP is obsess about men - to the point where her big moment in FOTR and the refusal of the Ring (supposedly, the reason she is granted leave to return to Valinor) is not about her own pride and ambition, but about Sauron. So I won't go into that in this post. But I will say this much: in LOTR, it is  made clear that the victory over Sauron is still a defeat for the Elves. Much that was magical and wondrous will pass with him and the time for the Dominion of Men begins. Lothlórien will fade away. In helping the Fellowship of the Ring Galadriel essentially sacrifices her own ambition and influence over the matter and fates of Arda. But with ROP's portrayal, this aspect of Galadriel's fight against Sauron is lost.

Furthermore, it is apparently because of her that Sauron resumes to his evil ways. The show changes Galadriel  from being one of Sauron's chief enemies and her opposing him even when he was still seemingly fair and helpful, to the situation where she cannot recognise him for what he is and is responsible for his return - and for the hundreds of thousands of deaths and uncountable suffering that will result from it. 

I expect I don't need to explain why this is bad.

It is also very unclear to me what she expected to do once she found Sauron. Fights between Elves and Maiar in the form of Balrogs are notoriously fatal, and Sauron must be even stronger than a Balrog, considering he is Morgoth's first lieutenant. Is ROP!Galadriel trying to go down in a blaze of (vain)glory? As the final scene of the first season between her and Sauron shows, she is and always was hopelessly outmatched and she doesn't seem to have any plan except to just stab him. Are you telling me that she spent a millenia hunting for him without any idea about his abilities and how to respond to them, and how to bring him down?

&&&&&&&

What I gather from all this is that for ROP, and for the people who created the show, women's stories, friendship between women, and women's ambitions don't matter. Or, it was thought that the only way Galadriel would be interesting to the TV audience is as an action hero. This could also be because the creative team responsible for ROP simply can't write a good script.

Surely, it's nice to see women in diverse roles, being warriors and protectors and guardians. But it's also important to see how these roles tie to masculine ideals, and that if you discard a woman's already existing story so that she can fulfill this particular role, then your take is not particularly empowering anymore.

#Galadriel #anti rings of power #anti rop #Tolkien #text

[sotwk]

The Story of Thranduil's Great Losses

My overarching theory about Elvenking’s broken heart is that he actually lost multiple family members over the course of the Third Age, in events borne about by the spawning of evils from Dol Guldur and the resurgence of the orcs in lands close to Mirkwood. 

However, the biggest loss that hit him hardest was that of his beloved wife. Prior to being softened by marriage and fatherhood, Thranduil must have been a bit difficult to get along with. Based on his portrayal in the The Hobbit trilogy, we can picture him as arrogant, cocky, snobbish, stubborn, impatient, hot-tempered, and carrying the emotional and mental damages of war. Remember that he witnessed the Sacking of Doriath, one or potentially two Kinslayings, the War of Wrath, and likely one or two of the great Elven wars in the mid Second Age. (I’m not listing the War of the Last Alliance here because I think he was already married at that point.) Essentially, he was a grumpy, battle-hardened soldier who just wanted to live the rest of his life on Middle-earth in peace and free of care.  

Eventually, he met an elleth who not only saw the goodness and kindness behind these flaws, but helped him temper his demons. She understood and respected his desires but also inspired him to fulfill his potential as a great ruler. With their union, they helped each other grow and under their rule the Woodland Realm flourished and thrived for about a thousand years into the Third Age. 

And then, sometime around TA 1000, the Necromancer (aka Sauron) came to Amon Lanc and set up shop, turning it into the cesspool that is Dol Guldur. Thranduil’s blissful existence began to crumble from then on, slowly but surely.

Almost two thousand years later, he was still working hard to serve his people and sustain his kingdom which was being plagued by the Necromancer’s evils, even after he'd lost the beautiful home he and his wife built together and raised their children in. In his fight against the Enemy, he lost dear friends and even his own children (who, or how many, I will not say, because I have yet to write those stories!). The fact that an estranged Legolas was the one left remaining to him by the events of The Hobbit speaks to the extent of his personal losses. 

After TWO THOUSAND years of enduring this decline, injury, and strife, can you imagine what a blow it was to him when, due to one weak, unguarded moment, Thranduil failed to protect his Queen and she died?

How did it happen? 

Honestly, I am still working out the specifics in order to write a story about it, but in the meantime, I have some notes to share. 

If we choose to subscribe to The Hobbit movie’s claim that the Elvenqueen died in Gundabad, (which I do, loosely, in my own headcanon history for the SOTWK series I am building), a logical time when this might have occurred was in TA 2793 during the War of the Dwarves and Orcs and the Second Sacking of Gundabad. 

My belief is that the Elvenqueen was not a fighter, because her husband was already a renowned warrior who commanded a formidable army, and a more practical and fitting role for her would be that of a healer, ready to tend to her King and sons should they suffer injury. Elves who are healers generally avoid combat, because as Tolkien’s “Laws and Customs of the Eldar” states: “the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing” (from “The History of Middle Earth").

Details of about how the Elvenqueen’s death occurred include my following assumptions: (Bear with me, because a few are leaps and stretches of imagination, although still logical in my mind.)

The Elvenqueen was Noldorin and a dwarf-friend, similar to Celebrimbor or Elrond (in Rings of Power). Since dwarves helped build the underground halls as seen in The Hobbit, a congenial relationship must have existed between Thranduil’s house and the dwarves of Durin’s Folk. I believe the Queen was the source of this, being a friend to Thrain I (ancestor of Thorin Oakenshield).

In TA 2770, when Smaug besieged Erebor and turned the Dwarves into nomads, Thranduil refused to give them aid (for reasons I can discuss at a later time--but I have a theory for this too!). At the time, the Elvenqueen was residing elsewhere and was unable to prevent this. 

Twenty years later: Wanting to make up for past mistakes, the Elvenqueen persuaded her reluctant King to send a portion of their army to fight on the Dwarves’ side, arguing that the orcs are also their people’s sworn enemy. (Does the argument sound familiar? Maybe that’s why Thranduil found Tauriel so aggravating!)

The Elvenqueen accompanied Thranduil to the first assembly of the forces, to facilitate the interactions between her hot-headed husband and a still-angry Thrain II (Thorin’s dad). 

After a few battles had been fought and won, Thranduil convinced his wife to return home. She was to be escorted by Elven warriors and taken by a safe route provided by the Dwarves, but due to either betrayal or faulty intelligence, the Elvenqueen was instead ambushed and captured by orcs and taken to Gundabad. 

Learning of this, Thranduil rode to her rescue and engaged the forces of Gundabad in battle. But his efforts were in vain because the Queen had already been slain; the orcs had no intention of returning her and had merely tried to set a trap. All Thranduil found was her lifeless body, and he never had a chance to say goodbye. 

It was Thranduil’s rage that cleansed Gundabad of orcs during that war. (Take his fight scenes in the movies and multiply by the fury of a thousand suns.) However, once this was done, he took his army home, refusing to continue fighting the rest of the six-year war. He blamed the Dwarves’ negligence for his wife’s death, which led to the open hostility between his and Thrain/Thorin’s houses. 

Thranduil’s anger was so well known (and feared), that Dain Ironfoot (who wasn’t even there!) later made the movie claim “he wishes nothing but ill upon my people” and called Thranduil a “faithless woodland sprite”, in reference to him not completing his participation in the war.

At the time of the Elvenqueen’s death, Legolas was already over 2,000 years old, so when Legolas tells Tauriel “there is no memory”, he means a grieving Thranduil likely discouraged any mention of his dead wife in his presence, songs of her are not widely sung, and images/memorials of her are scarce. “There is no grave” could mean that she was perhaps buried somewhere secret, not easily accessible, or not a typical resting place for elves. Thranduil's grief was just too deep to bear this.

#thranduil #thranduil fanart #thranduil oropherion #king thranduil #thranduil fanfiction #the elvenking #legolas #thranduil wife #the elvenqueen #the hobbit #lee pace #thranduil headcanon #lotr headcanon

[afaramir]

did you guys understand what i meant in my tragedy of the psychic warfare post when i said i will not be your banner. i need to make sure you understood because just the thought of it has been genuinely fucking me up ever since. i just. denethor definitely knows the story of the end of the second age, and more specifically, what banner the armies of sauron carried onto the battlefield. and if you need a refresher, its celebrimbor’s dead body. tortured and mutilated and probably stripped naked (someone fact check me on that one) and stuck on a standard to be carried into battle. and. well. god i cant even say it. even thinking of it makes me visualize it in my head and i genuinely get nauseous. ok just. if gondor falls denethor’s death will not be easy. he has been too much of a thorn in sauron’s side for far too long. and. alright you draw the Logical Conclusion from the facts ive presented while i go and cry for a minute.

now sauron has famously had a lot of enemies, and yet he only did the banner thing once. so you might ask well what’s my rationale for thinking he might do it again? well pure sick deranged angst of course. but i do have AN argument although i do not promise it is bulletproof.

i think that he chose to do it to celebrimbor as a final act of desecration. he’s taken the rings they made together and all of the art of their creation and corrupted them and used that great craft to forge a tool solely of domination. he’s tortured him, personally, to death. and THEN he turns his body into a banner and marches on the last alliance. its an act of specific psychological horror every elf on that battlefield knows exactly who that is, hanging from the standard.

and denethor? well - sauron destroyed numenor, did he not? not directly, but i think he claims it as his victory because otherwise the loss of his fair appearance and his physical form to the alkallabeth would be too heavy of a blow to his ego lol. and now here is this man - nay, this numenorean, who is the first person in centuries who has dared vie with him directly. who not only contests him mentally but HOLDS OUT, for DECADES, where saruman, also a literal maia, greatest of the order of the wizards, could not. who poses a genuine threat to him, while also standing as a bulwark between him and the rest of middle-earth. denethor’s entire existence fucks with him so much. because he thinks oh, numenor was easily corruptible. men are easy to enslave or turn to my will. and then here is denethor, single-handedly proving him wrong. by the end of the war sauron has so many sick revenge fantasies against him in his head. i really don’t think its too much of a stretch to think that bannering him is one of them.

further...i also think part of the thing with choosing celebrimbor is that the final battle was upon them. it was sort of expedient. well i need a banner for this battle and CONVENIENTLY i also have this guy i hate whom ive tortured. and what is sauron going to do once gondor falls? march on the rest of middle-earth. with the lord of its first line of defense, its forlorn hope, as. well you see what i mean. i typed it out and then HAD to delete it.

and oh my GOD he KNOWS. AND HE KNOWS!!! HES SEEN HIMSELF ON THAT STANDARD!!! I FEEL! I FEEL!!!! anyway yeah i picture it and i wish for death!

#.txt #denethorposting #guys this one was...a lot! this is all a lot!! i am so in it (DEROGATORY) #sorry celebrimbor besties for my very clinical description immediately juxtaposed with being COMPLETELY INCAPABLE of even speaking the word #when faced with the idea of it happening to MY guy #its just. Good Lord. oh my GOD. to have that as your fate. when you have always placed yourself on such a pedestal of pride and dignity. #YOU KNOW???

[cycas]

I have ended up writing more about Eregion again: specifically its fall, in Speak Friend and Enter.  And I have another Second Age Eregion work slowly underway. To help with all of this, I made a map of Eregion, aiming for the period around 1600 when the Ring was forged.  

Here's the thinking behind it: 

Eregion is largely a wooded landscape.  Some of the trees have been felled to build the city of Ost-in-Edhil, and to provide fuel, but I think the woods would be preserved. Celeborn and his people came with Galadriel to establish Eregion, bringing Doriathrin forest agriculture skills with them.  

Perhaps Galadriel has even tried planting mallorn trees here, though they did not take as well as they did in Lorien later, and vanished when there were no longer Elves in Eregion to look after them. The woods would be a source of materials, fuel, and bark, but also a place where the Elves would hunt, particularly deer. 

At the end of the Third Age, when the Fellowship walked through Eregion, they noticed ancient remains, paved roads and worked stones.  I am inclined to think some of these may have been Numenorean remnants from the early Third Age, rather than remains of Eregion, simply because of the 4760 years between the Fall of Eregion and the War of the Ring. Eregion/Hollin doesn't seem to be mentioned as being part of Arnor, but it is quite close to the Numenorean settlement of Tharbad. (On the other hand, Eregion did specialise in the technologies of preservation, if the Rings are anything to go by.  Still, a nearly 5000 year old road still recognisable as such tests my imagination somewhat.) I am not sure if Elvish Eregion would have had the wide paved roads mentioned in Lord of the Rings.  I think the roads I have marked on the map above were probably green roads, used for walking routes, occasional horse riders, and perhaps livestock droving, and that the paved roads may have come later.   

Of course, the paved leading to Khazad-dûm with its wide climbing loops as described in LOTR,  may have been a dwarf-road. The creation of loops to reduce the climb suggests that perhaps it was designed for use by heavy carts.  There is no wide lake before the Doors, of course.  That was created by damming the Gatestream, Sirannon, some time in the late Third Age. 

At any rate. Tharbad does exist in 1600SA, but it's fairly new, and primarily a fort defending Numenorean timber extraction operations: there's no bridge yet, and the bogs and marshes along the line of the Swanfleet river are wide and shallow, with several small islands.  

This land will all be drained later, either by Numenor, or perhaps by the new powers of Arnor and Gondor, building the road through Tharbad to connect Northkingdom and Southkingdom.  But not yet.   The forests that used to lie around the river Gwathlo have mostly been felled by Numenor, but there are some left, and most of those will be burned during Sauron's campaign. 

I've given Celeborn a house outside Ost-in-Edhil. Given his well-documented distrust of Dwarves, I feel that he probably wouldn't be very comfortable in the city with the greatest friendship ever known between Dwarves and Elves. Also, during the fall of Eregion, Celeborn was present and joined Elrond's rescue force that was swept away into the north, to found Rivendell, and that would be more likely if Celeborn's usual haunts were at the northern end of Eregion.  I've drawn his house with two long wings and a tower, and I'm inclined to think that the tower was Galadriel's idea, and was made of stone, but the wings were made of carven wood.  There are other settlements scattered across northern Eregion through the woods, but no cities of any size: these are homes for Elves to use particularly in winter. 

When the Fellowship stopped on the road from the Redhorn Gate, they stopped at a hill topped by a few trees, and ringed with large rocks.  I've decided this was probably a way-meet, where two paths originally passed, and the trees are distant descendents of those planted by the Elves. The rocks might be remnants of late fortifications from the siege, perhaps linked to real-world myths about crossroads and waymeets. 

The wide shallow bird-haunted Swanfleet is probably a useful food source for Tharbad, as well as the elves of southern Eregion and the Men of the great woods of Eriador.  All of them hunt in the marshes for birds and eggs.  

I think perhaps the Numenoreans of Tharbad (they all call themselves Numenorean, though even at this early date, some of them have never seen Numenor) mostly hunt on land, in the reedbeds. They are more comfortable with deep water ships than small boats. 

The Elves of Eregion make long shallow punts that are driven with paddles or long poles, which allows them to hunt birds in season on the water with bows or falcons. 

The marshes are also grazing land for cattle, the herds of the original inhabitants of the land along the Gwathlo river. They have been here for a very long time, long before Eregion was established, trading cheese, milk and leather with the dwarves of Khazad-dûm in return for metal: mostly in the form of knives, pots, pans and needles. 

#eregion #second age #ramblings #maps

[cha-melodius]

It is NICE ASK WEEK and I am PREPARED. So, here's mine, for everyone - both because I'm interested and because I don't want to run out of steam: if you could be transported into any piece of media, what would it be, and why? If there's a specific PART of the piece of media (i.e. only after the Big Bad is defeated) that you'd choose, GET SPECIFIC ❤ (copy & paste is a friend to all)

HELLO and thank you my dear!! Ok you told others it could just be a holiday, so that's how I'm taking it because going permanently would be a very different proposition. Still, this was a tough choice! I think it would be fun to visit lots of fictional worlds.

BUT I decided to go with my first instinct, the oh-so-nerdy choice of Middle Earth, either in the Fourth Age (aka after Sauron is defeated at the end of LOTR), or in like, early Second Age after Morgoth is defeated but before Sauron starts acting up and building Barad-dûr. The latter bc I'd love to see Númenor before the fall, plus then I could hang out with elves and see a lot of elf cities at their height as well. But mostly I'd probably spend time in the Shire with the hobbits because they know how to live.

#about me #nice ask week #lotr

[ceescedasticity]

'Unforsaken' cutting room floor

From where they're first talking about the possible warden. I guess I decided this got more detailed than it needed to be? I kind of like it…

------

Anyone know where Radagast is these days?

Celeborn says he was present when they were disassembling Dol Guldur and trying to restore things, but left even before the Ringbearers sailed.

Elrohir says Estel was mostly sure Radagast was helping with ecological restoration in Mordor for a while, but never actually caught sight of him and hasn't heard anything for a while. Maybe he went farther into Sauron's old territory?

So, no one knows where Radagast is in any useful way.

They might actually have some idea where one of the Blue Wizards is, or at least was: the Magus Caerulus who is or was very influential on the Men living in the lands just west of Pelndoru. Khitwê and Risyind don't know much more than that, but they assume the Men who live there would.

So they could, if they choose, go most of the way to Pelndoru and see if they can pick up the trail of a wizard.

A wizard who's apparently involved in human politics, Celeborn points out. That's not an obvious good sign.

(Okay look, it is not easy coordinating resistance to Sauron when you have no Eldar or Edain in your arsenal — Avari and other humans have the heart and the will to fight the Shadow, but they mostly don't have lingering bits of Valar-favor. If the Magi Caeruli didn't stay personally involved the people of the East and South just wouldn't have any tools to protect themselves. It's gotten a lot better! Almost no one thinks they're gods now and they're definitely not kings!)

(In a different incarnation of this fic, with additional digressions about the Blue Wizards and even more outrageous OCs— Well, never mind.)

Still: Going most of the way to Pelndoru and talking their way into meeting the Magus Caerulus is an option.

…Assuming they're still there.

Getting a wizard would be a long-term and chancy endeavor, and no one is very enthusiastic about it.

"Besides," Celegorm says, "it's not like you need to be a maia to fight a maia."

"Strictly speaking no, but…"

(Celegorm is thinking: Finrod actually didn't do too badly against Sauron until he lost his nerve, and Maglor is a much better bard than Finrod, and the Warden is — he assumes — weaker than Sauron, so this should be workable if Maglor gets in the right frame of mind.)

(Maglor and Turgon are thinking: True, but all balrog-killers died doing it and this thing may be stronger, so let's not get cocky.)

(Glorfindel, Celeborn, Elladan, and Elrohir are thinking: How much of Glorfindel's Second Age pre-return-to-Middle-earth power-up is still lingering? Is this hypothetical Warden bigger or smaller than a balrog, figuratively speaking? Also there's the Saruman comparison, Mithrandir did a lot to break his power but he was definitely vulnerable to other attacks, what kind of shape is this thing in—)

(Khitwê and Risyind are thinking: Wait, what's a maia again? Is it the same as a wizard or not?)

(Whiterot is thinking: About something else entirely because she doesn't want to think about maiar.)

(Sharlinnu is thinking: Is it too late to start taking notes?)

It's still not like anyone is planning to let this stop them either, so Elrohir asks if there's any procedure of arming for umaiar.

"Fire-resistant armor and the best weapons you have," says Turgon.

"That's balrogs specifically," Celeborn says. "More generally, you need to be aware of the mental and spiritual influence — like the Black Breath of the Ringwraiths, but possibly much worse — and be prepared to resist it."

"Just about anything dies if you cut its head off," Celegorm offers.

Maglor gives Celegorm a 'I know you are not actually this book-dumb, will you stop embarrassing me' look, which Celegorm ignores. "There are seventeen known repeating types of umaiar, and any individual might be unique. What Lord Celeborn said is the only consistent rule."

"Mithrandir left Glamdring here, though," Elladan says, half-joking. "He killed a balrog with Glamdring, so it could be considered a weapon for use on umaiar?"

"Hmmmm."

"I forgot to mention that," Glorfindel says to Turgon. "Glamdring is here — we don't know how it got to Eriador, but after it surfaced Mithrandir wielded it until he sailed — do you want it back?"

"…No thank you," says Turgon. "I don't think it would like being wielded by an orc."

Is there anything in the armory that would? They'll have to check.

Anyway, what about Maglor's anti-maia capacity? Clearly he's been keeping in practice driving orcs into the Sea…

Maglor wants to avoid admitting to weakness in front of Turgon, Celeborn, and the children more than he wants to yell at Celegorm for having unreasonable expectations. He says he can play a harp if necessary, but it's been a while since he did anything big.

Turgon says he thought they were already counting on Maglor to break the Crucible open. Asking him to fight the Warden at the same time seems a bit much.

Sharlinnu asks how the Dark Lord was defeated, anyway.

…They don't know?

Well, they know it happened fast and unexpectedly and Mount Doom erupted—

The One Ring was destroyed in Mount Doom, that's how.

…Wait, do they know what the One Ring is?

Yes, they know what the One Ring is.

…Actually Whiterot and Sharlinnu are a little vague on that.

Okay, if anyone wants details, there's a book. Suffice to say: No one actually fought Sauron.

All right, so there's no one — other than Glorfindel and Maglor, hopefully — particularly equipped to fight the hypothetical warden. Are there other people they could call on for more strength in general?

Well, there's Thranduil. He's pretty busy right now, though.

And while he's been easy-going about old Sindarin grudges in general asking him to work directly with Maglor Fëanorion might be a bit much to ask for.

Not to mention the orcs. Thranduil still struggles with dwarves.

Whiterot asks if knowing he has a… personal stake… would make it easier for him to handle it.

Nimloth? Maybe…

No, Oropher.

…

(Turgon, Celegorm, and Sharlinnu actually do all recognize the name — highest-priority Greenwood target in the Second Age. —Also Reckless and Sly really wanted to kill him. None of them had any idea he's an orc, though.)

(Celeborn is horrified, but not as shocked as he would be if Celebrían hadn't identified Ningloreth of Lórinand, who died in the same battle as Oropher and had less of a reputation for obstinacy.)

(Maglor never heard the King of Greenwood's name while he was king of the Greenwood, but recognizes the name from old intelligence on Iathrin nobility. He does not mention this.)

(Khitwê remembers the name from various history lessons in Imladris and has to remind Risyind.)

Personal stakes notwithstanding, Thranduil is still very busy and not guaranteed to keep his temper even when he's trying very hard. Celeborn would rather not involve him in this and would really rather not tell him about Oropher.

Círdan? Probably not.

…Although they should probably keep him in the loop.

Maglor sighs dramatically and asks if anyone knows where Daeron is.

Sailed under a false name, Celeborn says. So much for that idea.

What about dwarves? Or Men?

Dwarves might be able to help if not with a warden specifically, but… this isn't really their problem, is it? It's an elven problem. (It could be the dwarves' problem if it turns out there's a warden and it can trigger orcs multiplying, but that's never happened that they know of.)

It's an old, terrible, horrific, even shameful elven problem. Elves should take care of it.

#orc bank unforsaken #orc bank

[mhevarujta]

Sauron and Galadriel in The Rings of Power

There's been a lot of talk about Sauron and Galadriel's arc in the show. I've seen reactions vary from 'this is a cheap fanfic and completely against anything Tolkien would ever do' to 'they are in love with each other' depending on the audience and what they desire from the show.

Then there is the MC's recent interview, leading to fans speculating on whether Sauron will try to bring Galadriel to his side again etc. 

My own approach of this show is finding a silver lining of examining as its own thing and examining the characters arcs having in mind broader themes and the fact that his is a condensed timeline, so the entire arc of a character will be basically dealth in about 5 seasons when in the book it spans several ages.

With this in mind, this is the way I perceived what is being done with Sauron and Galadriel: I genuinely don't believe that the writers are going for a romance or for some version of badboy Sauron who becomes darker because he was rejected by Galadriel. I don't even believe that he starts with a genuine chance of redemption as Halbrand on the raft.Since the beginning, Sauron was quite willing to let any companion die. The first time he allows Galadriel to board the raft, she is the sole other survivor and he had let her fend for herself.  The second time, after they had talked, he had already seen her as potentially useful. I've seen the argument that Mairon may feel things that Sauron doesn't, but I don't think that the duality of Mairon/Sauron is prominent at all, if it even exists. 

For one thing, throughout it all he is always presented as someone who tells the aspects of the truth that suited him and that could sway her and those around him to the perception of events and to the course of action that suited him. Moreover, by this point in the show's canon he HAS experienced Morgoth's downfall and his experiments to have power over flesh have happened after his failed attempt at redemption.His choice has already been made.  I feel that he cares for Galadriel because he sees a conflict in her. He doesn't know of the specifics of Galadriel's journey, but he perceives that in a way they are similar... and they are, but it's a juxtaposition that they create.  Galadriel does not go to Aman in 1x01 because she didn't feel peace and didn't want to pursue a version of it for herself while the world was in turmoil. Based on Sauron's own arc in the Silmarillion, after Morgoth's defeat he MIGHT have genuinely repented for a while, but it was because of the fear his master's fall awoke in him. Sauron did not go to Aman because he was afraid of judgement.  In the show Galadriel was afraid of failing her own sense of duty and necessity in a way. But based on what we know... he? He was afraid of uncertainty. To seek redemption, he basically needed impunity in advance if he was to even put in the effort. 

Galadriel's conflict is something he can use. It's something that he can also relate to on an emotional level (but not in terms of its moral context). Her utility, the way he can channel that to manipulate AND the fact that she's beautiful strong and resilient are all factors that capture his interest.  I feel that to an extent he lusted for her, as we know Morgoth had for Luthien.  Nevertheless, what leads to him wanting her by his side is that 'feeling' he addresses in 1x06. Some interpret that  as a romantic confession. Personally I feel he was speaking of control.When fighting by her side he had someone to pull him back and limit him in a way he could not manage himself. If he had that when Morgoth fell he might have managed to be redeemed.  But his tendancies prevail. 

Where one could consider what he felt as a need for companionship and of genuinely having people close to them, for Sauron it's accompanied by an idea of order and control; of binding it to his very being. He twists it into a corrupted notion that just clicks when he meets Celebrimbor and the idea of an object of power comes and clicks with it. He wants that feeling of certainty AND his own twist on power, which beats any purity that feeling that awakened in him might have had, and which is why he sells to Galadriel the idea of them ruling together, even though with control he'd have over her through the ring would basically cancel out any chance she had at setting limits. But it's the feeling and the illusion of it all that matters to him and with regard of himself only. 

Even as he presents them as the saviors of middle earth, she asks something along the lines of 'save or rule?' Sauron not seeing the difference between the two and seing his own dominance and vision as salvation is exactly why he is lost and at the point of no return. It also clearly separates the two. Galadriel WAS tempted in both the book and the show, and in the show she's clearly drowning in her rage and desire for vengeance (I feel that her hunting of Sauron in the show is inspired by that line about her wanting to follow Feanor and thwart him), but ultimately their goals and worldviews are very different, which is why she CAN pull herself back every single time. She has a sense of self and of others that he never had and it's why she can choose to 'remain Galadriel' and not lose everything that makes her who she is because of a desire of power that most people have in one way or the other.Of course, the moment Sauron is rejected, he is very much willing to let her die. I feel this was a pretty big indication concerning how the writers see these two and the fact that, while Sauron may still see uses for her and have his eyes set upon her, there's no chance of the show exploring them as actual love-interests or even allies.

 Then why build this arc in the first place? Because of the themes and the juxtaposition, as I mentioned earlier. Even if we look at their names, there's something interesting there. We have the Dark Lord and the Lady of Light; the Lord of Gifts and the Lady of Gifts; Artano and Artanis; the Lord of the Rings and the Lady of the Ring; the Black Master and the Mistress of Magic; the Black One/Master and the White Lady; the Shadow in the Forest and the Lady of Golden Wood. I don't know, I just feel that the idea of exploring this comes from the right place and was done quite well in season 1. Of course some may disagree and that's their prerogative.

#sauron #halbrand #galadriel #haladriel #rop #rings of power #The Silmarillion #I'm not the shipping police and not saying that anyone shouldn't ship them btw #neither am I saying that people are obliged to accept that the show's take is not a fanfic that trashes on Tolkien #The Tolkien fandom has been touchy for the past few years so I feel the need to say that I'm just sharing my own take and 100% respect that #it's not the only interpretation

[lightdancer1]

My takes on Melian and Luthien:

And ultimately Arwen, though this will get a second and a longer post.

I do think that there is a legitimate grounds in a modern audience reading Melian enchanting Elu Thingol into a trance for 200 years as something that would seem dodgy to us, though not necessarily to the same degrees in-universe.......though even then I tend to treat Melian as essentially the good mirror to Sauron and Saruman. They are all Maiar who took forms of flesh and became rulers within the world and I see Melian as essentially a close kin to Thuringwethil and a Maia whose power relies in what TV Tropes calls 'the Sacred Darkness.' Shadows are her strength and she embodies what the Dark and Night are meant to be without Morgoth's Old Night instilling fear.

In a relative 'power' ranking there's Ilmare-Eonwe-Mairon, all in equal power in different ways, Ilmare representing the light of the Maiar and of the stars and of the sacred aspects of Maiar power, Eonwe as the equivalent of the Archangel Gabriel and the messenger and empowered with the glory.....and Mairon as ultimately the great shapeshifter and the greatest mage, which is the snare Morgoth sets and why as that power grows Mairon in the Second and Third Age is relatively rather more powerful than Morgoth and ultimately the much greater danger.

Melian is the other great mage among the Ainur and it works in a very Aule-Melkor dualism. What Sauron does from pride and arrogance she does from love, and her relationship with Thingol is in no small part an aspect of where she has a very eldritch factor befitting how I portray the Ainur. Tolkien refers to them at times taking 'forms of their own thought, visible in majesty and in dread.' Melian is the singular case of an Ainu who takes shape akin to mortals and becomes very deeply interwoven with it, though as she is not Fallen she retains rather more of her power than her Fallen kin tend to and works within spheres rather than seeking dominion over them and in working within them has a tremendous amount of power that does not fade, but remains consistent.

So why does this matter? Because while the enchantment does have its aspects that make both Eldar and other Ainur uneasy, it works within the world and within the broader plan rather than against it. Elu Thingol is not an ensorceled figure, he has both free will (as is shown by his repeatedly both failing to consult his wife and ignoring her when he does) and he's open about the reality that if it was a mirror to what happened with Eol and Aredhel that he would have left as she did. It is a gesture, ultimately, of love and I tend to see Thingol as teaching Melian as much as she does him, and her students like Galadriel.

He teaches her of emotions and things that as an Ainu made manifest she does not entirely understand, and knowing what these things are and how they work in forms of flesh is a way that things become equal (and ultimately showing Thingol in both hypocrisy and growth as for all that he teaches things in the abstract applying them to himself in his own ways does not work out so well especially when it's foresight).

Luthien in turn, as the first of the Peredhil, has a specific gift with her song that it is a small portion, uncaged, of the Music of the Ainur. It is how she can sing Morgoth into a nap, and how she can cast down Sauron's fortress, and how she sings Mandos and Eru into restoring to her Beren's soul. And it is this that accounts for my particular take on Beren and Luthien and what makes Beren a soul worthy for Luthien to accept her fate. With her glimpse of the Song she has some inkling of what fate holds and as a mirror to my take on things with Arwen she balks at it for much of her life......and she lives in a gilded cage where her mother is beloved and she is seen as much as a prettier Wilbur Whateley as someone worthier of admiration.

Beautiful, yes, in an in-universe 'too beautiful and flawless' fashion. Her singing as a small portion of creation has a haunting effect that leaves strange impressions on those who see her. Melian might have her eldritch factors but everyone knows she's a Maia and while theory and practice differ in dealing with it they also know a Maia will be weird by Eldar standards.

And in this regard she is also very lonely as while others might be smitten with her she can see that they are smitten with the idea and exposure to the actual person curdles that. Enter Beren Erchamion, who sees all the weirdness and loves her unconditionally from the first, and is willing to venture into the belly of Hell for her without being deterred by all the things that chase away others.

And so when the choice comes round at last, it is not some great burden or what she expected of it, for while she and Artanis to a point can see the future they see it as through a mirror darkly, seeing events but not always their context and seldom with ideas of what it's like to actually live the visions until they're there.

#melian #luthien #arwen undomiel #sauron #maiar vs umaiar #Galadriel #beren and luthien

[wyrd-syster]

Heya, I've been pondering over Haladriel a lot lately, and i'm wondering what you think Sauron believes he has to gain, specifically, by being bound to Gal's light? I.e. surely he can achieve/enact his vision for ME with his power alone. But maybe it's more about how her light makes him feel, as opposed to what it can do for him? Idk I loved your understanding of what was going through his head in that last ep (per your fics) and i thought you might be able to shed some light (hah) on this...

Sorry my reply to this is so late! I spent some time thinking about this.

So, the thing is, I don't think Sauron believes he can enact his vision for Middle-earth by himself. At least, not the idealized version of it.

Sauron freely admits he's done evil, he is aware at some level the pain he's caused. He professes to want to heal Middle-earth, and I think a lot of character interpretations are contingent on your view of this claim - is he truly repentant or just afraid of punishment? I personally think it is the much more interesting character choice to believe him; I believe he wants to right his wrongs, wants to atone. I think he truly believes that restoring order and perfection to the world will absolve him of his crimes.

However, the question then arises, how does he do all this without infringing upon his pride (which we know is what stopped him from submitting himself to the Valar for judgement)? How does he balance his thirst for power with his will to do better?

Following this thinking through to the end of the line, the answer is he doesn't. In the end, his lesser demons overcome his better angels. Sauron becomes the greatest evil on Middle-earth, covers the world in a second darkness, yatta, yatta, yatta.

So it seems like we meet him at this crossroads moment - trying to legitimately think of ways to right his wrongs while refusing to compromise on his ego and desire for power. And because he doesn't know how to navigate this cognitive dissonance, he's adrift - both literally and figuratively.

Enter Galadriel, who does not let him fade into obscurity and mope, but instead pesters him until he rises to the challenge of who she wants him to be and takes responsibility for the Southlands. Galadriel is the one who shows him the path forward, and he says as much to her in ep 8: "I'd all but given up, but you...You believed in me. You saw strength in me. You pushed me to heights no one else could have."

I think Sauron is self-aware enough to know he needs Galadriel to "pull him back" when his tendency for darkness overtakes him. I think he knows he will be unable to resist the temptation for self-gain and power without someone there to keep him in check. And Galadriel is the strongest being around capable of doing that, one whose support has "pushed him to new heights." And, importantly, one who is currently exiled from her own people - just think, an incredibly powerful ally in a vulnerable position!

To me, there also seems to be an angle of legitimizing his efforts through binding himself with Galadriel. She is, in many respects, a stand-in for the Valar on Middle-earth. So if she believes in him and supports him, then his work cannot truly be evil, not when it is A+ Noldor Certified!

I also just really vibe with a lot of what @liminal-zone has discussed about Sauron needing a new dom leader. Morgoth had a "clenched fist" around him for ages, and Sauron did his bidding. Now, he needs someone else to boss him around and give him guidance, someone like Galadriel.

Or, you know, he could just want her light to make himself, like, uber powerful. rip to charlie vickers' mentions but my readings of this character are different lol

#lindsey posts #lindsey answers questions #sauron rop #saurondriel #haladriel #rings of power #personal

[apple835]

A long yet respectful rant about The Rings of Power

This are my thoughts and comments after watching the first four episodes, and although I want to clarify this is not a hate post, it is a negative review of sorts, and this doesn't mean that you should stop watching it if you enjoy it. With that out of the way.

I am of the posture that the Silmarillion and second age of middle earth should not be adapted, it's simply too monumental of a task and it would require a lot to keep them both faithful to the books and entertaining to the audience.

I had my doubts from the very beginning regarding the Rings of Power because there were some questionable choices made on the first stages of production, however I tried to watch it with an open mind, understanding the limitations and challenges of having split rights, I truly wanted to like it, even as a sort of inspired tv show, after all videogames like Shadow of Mordor exist and they are good even if they have nothing to do with Tolkien's works. So I'll number my issues, but I'll also try to point out some good things in the series, few as they may be.

Is it truly an adaptation?

I believe that as an adaptation, even if you can and should take some liberties in order to make it enjoyable in the new medium, should follow certain key points, certain plot lines, certain events that lead to a cohesive storyline, but if you alter it to the point it's unrecognizable from its source then why take the names? Why not make a new story? And yes, I know greedy capitalists, but let's only judge the series itself here, we'll talk about Amazon later.

Now, let's buy for a moment that they do in fact struggled to make sense of the few things written about the second age and had to add new characters in order to make it coherent. That still doesn't justify some of the changes they made, the had the rights to a lot of it and simply decided not to add it which leads me to

Galadriel

I hate her, not because she's stubborn and revenge driven, but because that's not what Galadriel is meant to be, to have her running around, flirting with some mortal dude, and screaming her way out of things is exactly everything she is not, she as a character is meant to be this elegant and classic woman whose strength lies on her words and influence, not her sword, she is strong because she is calm and wise, because of her femininity not in spite of it, and is also very much married which is also an important part of her character to the point 90% of the time they are referred to as "Galadriel AND Celeborn", and they do have the rights to it, why they chose to eliminate him is beyond me. It is this same kind of fundamental misunderstanding of the few books characters they have that makes this a whole different story.

Elrond being an ambitious politician? Dwarf friend instead of Celebrimbor? Swearing an oath? Elrond who specifically turned down kingship and told the fellowship not to make an oath because of how dangerous they could be? How can you misunderstand a character so fundamentally that you have them be everything they specifically are not.

The many plotlines

Why? They shrunk the timeline in order to fit both the forge of the rings, war with Eregion and Numenor's fall in a couple of years, all these are supposed to happen simultaneously (and I understand why they chose to do this so I won't complain about this); they are cramping all these events in a single moment, why would they need so many plots? I'll number them so far

Galadriel's revenge

Elrond's visit to the Dwarves

Celebrimbor building his forge

The Hobbits that are not called Hobbits alongside meteor man that is totally not Gandalf.

The elf-mortal romance in the southlands which subdivides into the elf meeting a Sauron wannabe, the woman leading the escape and the son having Sauron's sword I think.

Parallel to Galadriel's we have that man whose name I forgot but it's totally not Sauron

Elendil and Isildur family drama

7 plotlines out of which none are truly compelling or engaging, to be honest they are quite boring and half of the characters are downright annoying, and if not they are simply boring. The episodes are over an hour long, so why has nothing happened? The plot has not advanced in the slightest, even ignoring the liberties taken it's a boring series, and that's even worse than not being fateful to its source.

The characterization

The costumes are awful, there's no other way to describe them other than boring and plain, there's not a single moment in which I felt at awe, particularly when talking about the elves, they are supposed to be otherworldly so why do they look so plain? And yes, it's the lack of wigs and horrible choice to have their hair look like Harry Styles (no offense to him) but that's not a magical look for magical creatures that live forever and yes, the casting itself is awful Not because the black elf dude but because none of them feel like they are another race of immortal people and that's again a characterization problem, it's an awful cast because the ages are all off, Galadriel is the oldest of them all, why are they treating her like a child? Why does Celebrimbor looks so old in comparison? The Dwarves are ok though, the mortals too but again, the characters are as boring as their looks, and the Hobbits that are not Hobbits? They are the worst of it all, they bore me to tears and their costumes are jarring to look at, a complete eyesore, not a cast problem though

One praise

The scenarios are gorgeous, Numenor and Eregion particularly, they do feel like someone understood these places and put a lot of effort into making them feel as they should, so props there.

Final thoughts

I know why Amazon put Tolkien's name on this thing, again greedy capitalists, but they I still feel like someone at some point could have chosen to do this different but did not, and that goes beyond the greedy corporation desires, they gave the money, it's the showrunners who decided to be incompetent and ended up with something that is both and awful adaptation and a boring tv show, and it makes me sad because as much as I'm against adapting the professor's works I also believe they could have done a masterpiece like Peter Jackson LotR, which most agree are perfect adaptations, and it makes me sad rather than angry (which I still am)

For me it's a skip, if a show doesn't catch me in 3 episodes I'm out, no matter how much they put Tolkien's name on it.

Again, if you enjoy that's also fine, this is merely my opinion

#lotr #the hobbit #the silmarillion #tolkien #rings of power #the lord of the rings #gil galad #galadriel #elrond #celebrimbor #sauron #i'm not tagging everyone