#silmarillion questions

[haveyoureadthisbook-poll]

#the silmarillion #j r r tolkien #book poll #have you read this book poll #polls #i hope thats the right tag for tolkien #also i didnt add the editors to the question so it wouldnt get too long

[essenceofarda]

An Agonizing and Passionate Eclipse ✨🌑☀️

#lotr #lord of the rings fanart #lord of the rings #silm fanart #tolkien fanart #lotr fanart #the silmarillion #silmarillion #the silmarillion fanart #silmarillion fanart #Arien #Tilion #my boy Til finally getting some 😏 #my art #i did not look at ANY reference for this except for photos of the eclipse so i MUST apologize for the questionable anatomy lol #just felt like doodling it out bc the thought popped into my head bc of the recent eclipse #i wonder if there's tales (?) or myths in middle earth abt eclipses and if they involve arien and tilion doing uhh... y'know ;)

[cilil]

✧˖ 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒇𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒍𝒆𝒗𝒆𝒍𝒔 𝒐𝒇 𝑨𝒊𝒏𝒖𝒓 𝒏𝒂𝒎𝒆𝒔 °.

Are you looking to name a Maia or Vala OC or to write about an Ainu character, but aren't sure how to name them/refer to them? You've come to the right place! Here's a fun little breakdown of Ainur names (there's also a tldr at the bottom for quick answers). Hope it helps!

Level 1: What others call them (near, far, wherever they are)

Much like other characters in the legendarium, Ainur have different names in different languages and their identities may be seen differently depending on which culture they're currently interacting with.

One great example for this is Gandalf. His original name in Valinor was Olórin (related to "olos"/"olor" which means dream or vision), while the name Gandalf came from old northern Mannish and means "Wand-Elf". To the Dwarves, he was known as Tharkûn, which is Khuzdul for "Staff-man", and his Sindarin name was Mithrandir, which means "grey wanderer". These are just a few examples of his various names and nicknames, but you get the idea.

If you have other characters referring to the Ainu in question, consider which language(s) they would speak and see if a name has already been given to that Ainu in the specific language. Otherwise you can translate one of their existing names or give them a new one based on how you think the culture/group of people whose perspective you're currently writing would view the Ainu. An example to illustrate the latter: On Númenor Mairon was referred to as Zigûr, which means "wizard" in Adûnaic - fitting for a sorcerer.

As for the Ainu(r) character(s) you're writing, consider that they may also need different names in different languages depending on who they interact with. Ainur are omnilingual and will typically introduce themselves according to the language others around them speak. Depending on how open they want to be with their identity, they may simply give a slightly altered version of their name that reflects the other language (for example the Adûnaic version of Melkor is Mulkhêr), translate their name or make up a new one or accept one that was given to them. However, the name they identify with and use in their inner monologue may be a different one*... and this is where we move to the next level.

*Important side note regarding this: While Morgoth and Sauron are commonly used names for Melkor and Mairon, these names were given to them by other people and are intended to be derogatory, so even though it's not always explicit in the text, we can safely assume that they do not self-identify as such and stick to their more "flattering" original names.

Level 2: Quenya

When Ainur are introduced in canon, a Quenya name is usually given as their "real" name. Again, Olórin is an example (one among many) for this.

Having a Quenya name is pretty essential for every Ainu who lives in/has ties to Valinor and can be important for the ones in Middle-earth too depending on the time period and how they self-identify. Be sure to look up the Quenya names of existing Ainur characters and have a Quenya name ready for your OCs, unless they were never in Valinor and explicitly cut themselves off from their kin and culture. Gothmog might be an example for this, being an Ainu who is pretty much exclusively identified with a Sindarin name and seems to at least not object to the usage of his "evil Balrog name"/isn't mentioned to identify with a different name instead. However, even in such a case consider that other Ainur might still remember the character in question by their Quenya name and continue to use it.

Level 3: Valarin

As you probably know already, Valarin is the language of the Ainur that they created when they began taking physical forms. While they still use it among themselves and some Valarin words were adopted into Quenya, the alien and at times unpleasant sound of Valarin prompted them to learn Quenya instead to converse with Elves.

Would the Valarin name be a more "accurate" name of an Ainu, given how it was their first language and they only later translated their names? You could say that, and some authors have chosen to use Valarin names for that reason.

However, the main issue with Valarin is that so little is known about it and it can be intimidating and/or infuriating to even try using it aside from the few known Valarin names, which are:

Aȝūlēz (Aulë) Arōmēz (Oromë) Mānawenūz (Manwë) Oš(o)šai (Ossë) Tulukhastāz (Tulkas) Ullubōz (Ulmo)

Alright, don't panic. Valarin is, at least in my humble opinion, not a must. The texts themselves use Quenya, the Quenya names are a translation of the Valarin names and the Ainur in general are known to self-identify by their Quenya names a lot, for example Mairon liked calling himself "Tar-Mairon".

If this however isn't satisfying to you and you would still prefer to have Valarin names ready for the Ainur you're writing, but can't make much of what little is known (less than 20 words and names respectively), you can still "make up" your own Valarin rendition of the Quenyan names. Here's how:

If you look at the ones I listed above, you may have already noticed that there are strong similarities between the names. Manwë, for example, comes from the Quenya root "man" with the ending "wë", and you can see these elements being present in his Valarin name as well. So I'd suggest you take the Quenya root and simply... make up a name that sounds like it could be proper Valarin (yup, we cheese it). To give you an example I've seen floating around in fanon: Melkor's name comes from the Common Eldarin (common ancestor of all Elven languages) "melek"/"mbelek", which means powerful (root "bel"/"mbel"), and Valarin names people use for him are usually some variant of "(M)Belekorōz".

Level 4: "True Names"?

But wait, some of you may say, didn't you say that the Ainur only invented Valarin when they took physical forms? Yup, I sure did. The Ainur in fact existed before language was even a thing - as spirit beings who communicate telepathically (via good old ósanwë) by nature they don't need it among themselves.

And this why I think not even the Valarin names are technically the "true names" of the Ainur and that they in fact don't have "one true name". Given how the use of ósanwë, especially in an environment like the Timeless Halls where no physical barriers exist, allows them to pretty much project their entire identity, emotional state and being to one another, there should have been no need for names. Rather, they would have "titles" or "descriptors", a sort of summary of who their identity and function. You can arguably see that in Melkor's name still: "He who arises in might".

Now, again, what I'm saying in the paragraph above isn't explicitly spelled out in canon, but rather the conclusion I've come to after researching and thinking about it. I would also advise against giving various Ainur half a sentence as their original "name" for your Timeless Halls fics - I thought about it, but realized it would be both obnoxious to write and unpleasant to read.

[TLDR] To conclude my advice is this: Quenya as the original/default name is completely fine, you can create a Valarin version if you want to and otherwise you may need additional names in other languages depending on the setting and situation, as outlined in level 1. With that being said: Happy writing and character creating!

#ainur answers #ainur #maiar #valar #writing guide #tolkien oc #tolkien legendarium #silmarillion #silmarillion oc #ainu oc #it's a long way to say that you could theoretically just make a quenya name and maybe add a sindarin one and be fine in most cases #anyway uh #if you have further questions #feel free to send asks #or dm

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

Hey, silmarillion fandom! I have a /g question bc i am a bit confused.

So, Beren and Luthien did the whole “died and came back human” thing before they had Dior, right?

Like, when Luthien and Beren came back from mandos, they were both fully human right? And then they had dior.

Doesn’t that mean that Dior is only human? That there is not maian magic in him bc luthien gave that up for Beren?

Bc that’s what I’m understanding from the text, yet everyone is acting like dior and his descendents are descended from Melian and Luthien, like that they inherited the maian aspect of it, when (from my understanding) Luthien giving up that heritage was a big part of her and beren’s epic romance?

(Side note, this would also mean that at one point doriath was being ruled by a human king and i don’t think that would have gone over well...)

Or was it like, Luthien only gave up the maian part of the equation and kept the elf part, at least untill beren died and she joined him.

I’m sorry if i am confusing you, i myself am a bit befuddled.

#lord of the rings #silmarillion #lotr #the hobbit #lotr elves #luthien #beren #dior #beren and luthien #melian #i have questions

[gaunt-and-hungry]

Friend: You think you could take all seven of Fëanor's sons? Me: Oh yeah. For sure. Probably all at once. Friend: What weapon would you pick? Me: What? Why am I picking a weapon? Friend: What are you going to fight them with? Me: Is that what we were going to do?!

#incorrect silmarillion quotes #silmarillion shitpost #silmarillion #sons of fëanor #For sure taking on #Maedhros #Don't even question me #I have nothing to hide #I think I'd only take on for sure Maedhros #curufin #Maglor #sons of feanor #feanorians #So 3/7 #Blindfold me if Caranthir is involved #need like 12 drinks beforehand #But those are my top 3

[lordgrimwing]

losing my mind over the fact that

The Silmarils being precious beyond compare and actually making people unwilling to give them up is canon! Or, well, technically the canon that the Silmarils can enthrall people. Same thing.

I'm so tickled that this headcanon is actually canon, and you don't need to take my word for it, here's the pertinent quote:

"And Melkor, seeing that Fëanor wavered, and knowing that the Silmarils held his heart in thrall, said at last ..."

who cares what Melkor said, the Silmarils make people their thralls!!

The question is, have they had this ability since their creation, or only since the Valar hallowed them?

#slowly ceding my soul to the silmarillion #page 71 #the silmarillion #the silmarils #feanor #feanor makes such a point out of how awful the valar are for wanting the elves as thralls #it's terrible that he is the one who gets enthralled #how about finwe and feanor's sons. are they enthralled? #how much time do you need to spend with the silmarils to fall under their power? #does there need to be as aspect of ownership for it to work? #so many questions #grimwing gripes

[the-elusive-soleil]

All right, I know there's Lore that married elves are discernible by means of eye contact, but does anyone know if it says anywhere whether this is also true for elf/mortal couples? If so, is it true for both of them or can you only tell with the elf?

Yes this is about Halenthir, you got me.

Because in a scenario where the Haladin ultimately settle in Thargelion (maybe because they mistakenly approached Thingol speaking Quenya?), I can see Caranthir and Haleth getting married but they're still being professional about titles and stuff, and Caranthir messing with one of his visiting brothers by saying "This is my neighbor, Lady Haleth of the Haladin". And said brother takes a good look at them, rolls his eyes, and says, "Moryo, can't you just introduce us to your wife like a normal person?"

Alternatively, the visiting brother notices that Caranthir is married, but can't figure out who he married, and Caranthir has way too much fun trying to draw out the guessing. There haven't been any known elf/human couples before, so when he tells them to "quit only guessing elves! It could be one of the Haladin!", they think he's joking.

Alternatively, the bond isn't visible on either of them, and barely anybody knows that Haleth and Caranthir are married unless they let something slip. His brothers don't find out for decades, at the earliest.

#silmarillion #lore questions #caranthir #haleth #halenthir #caranthir x haleth

[general-illyrin]

I think it is fascinating that Tarn Aeluin, a lake described as being in the middle of trackless and uninhabited highlands, features so prominently in the histories of Maia, elves, men, and dwarves. Melian is said to have hallowed it, Aegnor and Andreth famously met there, Barahir retreated there with his band of outlaws and made it their base of operations until they were betrayed, and Mîm first discovered his skill at craftsmanship there.

What about this small lake in the middle of the wilderness drew such a variety of peoples to it?

#It's supposed to be in the middle of a pathless wilderness - yet all these people found it. #What drew them to it? How did they find it? What made them stay? #I just have so many questions... #the silmarillion #silm #melian #aegnor #andreth #barahir #mim the petty dwarf

[eruscreaminginthedistance]

Calling huge Silmarillion nerds:

I'm homebrewing a First Age Beleriand D&D campaign and personally I'll die if Hobbits aren't involved in some capacity. Problem is, there's basically NO lore I can find regarding what Hobbits were doing during the First Age, beyond the little scraps of cultural information about the Fallohides, Harfoots and Stoors you get on Tolkien Gateway

Are there any resources out there for information on First Age hobbit society/culture, or is this something I should write up from scratch?

#i have yet to double check my unfinished tales/HoME books in case there's anything gateway missed #but yeah if my PCs play Hobbit i would really like to be able to answer questions like where they came from or who their leaders are #silmarillion #the silmarillion #lotr #lord of the rings #tolkien #middle earth #hobbits #dnd #dungeons and dragons

[aragornsrockcollection]

In honor of the interesting discussion of what kind of sword Turgon would have had on my other post, have something I think about a lot in regards to Glamdring:

Turgon only used Glamdring in two battles. Both were catastrophic losses for the elves. One was the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the battle that broke all hope of the Elves winning on their own, and the other the Fall of Gondolin, the destruction of Turgon’s own city and fall of the last great Noldorin civilization in Beleriand.

Turgon flees and dies respectively in those two battles. But he is still so terrifying when he fights that goblins fear the sight of his sword two ages of the world and 6000 years later. THAT’S SO LONG. Imagine being so devastating even in your losses that you strike fear into the enemy for generations to come. They know his sword by NAME at a GLANCE. There is no evidence it’s done more than be shuffled from hoard to hoard since the fall of Gondolin.

This is such a Tolkien move. Tolkien’s worldview is that of the extremely catholic long defeat of good. All things degrade but that doesn’t make the effort in fighting that degradation worthless, in fact it is everything. (This inevitability is not my favorite aspect of his work, but it’s undeniably saturated in it)

One of the most powerful and feared weapons in Tolkien’s work has only seen defeat? Honestly, shouldn’t be surprising.

#stay tuned for when I eventually get the spoons to tackle explaining what this interaction means about goblin society #I feel like that requires a lot of tangents though and I tend to avoid the orc question #because it really just depresses me #tolkien #the silmarillion #jirt #lotr #silmarillion #silm #jrr tolkien #Turgon #Glamdring #the hobbit #Gondolin

[braxix]

Maedhros: Do you think-

Celegorm: No.

#Maedhros: I wasn't done but that answers my question anyways #silmarillion #incorrect silmarillion quotes #incorrect quotes #maedhros #lotr maedhros #celegorm #lotr celegorm #lotr #lord of the rings #incorrect lord of the rings quotes

[queensabriel]

#I’m not putting Nerdanel bc we all know she’d win #Silmarillion #Tolkien #Lord of the Rings #LoTR #anyway here’s me with the important questions #Arda

[rrcraft-and-lore]

Calling Tolkien nerds - curious about something: Reading over texts and came across:

"All except the Witch-king were apt to stray when alone by daylight. And all, but the Witch-king, feared water, and were unwilling but in dire need, to enter or to cross unless dryshod by a bridge."

We know the Nazgul can/do walk in daylight, just not much, and that their powers are at least diminished by it.

"Of Khamûl it is said here that he was the most ready of all the Nazgûl, after the Black Captain himself, to perceive the presence of the ring, but also the one whose power was most confused and diminished by the daylight."

Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 4, The Hunt for the Ring Notes 1

What inspired this I wonder though? Not crossing moving waters is a theme common in many a monster/demon myth from cultures, same with sunlight hurting monsters/demons - I'm wondering if there is any specific lore Tolkien drew from (creature specifically) on/for that one. Don't just say Norse - no shit. The Hobbit is Beowulf.

Not my point. I've gone into the etymology of Nazgul before and the Arabic ghul, as well as other sources.

But, just curious on that. Maybe it's a shot in the dark.

#tolkien #Tolkien nerds #nazgul #nazgûl #witch king #monsters #demons #myths #myths and legends #folklore #lore #book lore #lord of the rings #lotr #the hobbit #the silmarillion #storytelling #writer asks #ghul #arabic ghul #I've got a question #does anyone know #just curious #ask tumblr #book worms #books and reading

[netmors]

Heyyy, I just wanted to say hi, cause i did really not scroll down your entire page to find and like every Silmarillion art of yours.

Okay, let's be honest, mostly your Ilmarë works.

I LOVE it so much, it's my entire (head) canon! I adore every tiny sketch of her. You really made so many of my days! Thanks, Mellon! ☆

Uhm and I guess it's really late, but if you find the time and the will to do it, I'd be very happy if you'd finish your old scetchs ;)

Lots of love and have a wonderful day!

Hi, chelsilef! I am very glad that after so many years my Silmarillion sketches continue to delight and inspire someone. I’m not sure that I’ll ever return to Tolkien’s works (I’m currently in my sci-fi period, hehehe – Star Wars and others), but it was very nice to remember one of the old fandoms.

And… drum roll …sudden drop of a sketch with Ilmare, hehehe:

#answers to questions and comments)) #ilmare #maiar #silmarillion #The Silmarillion #tolkien #old old fandom #my art #netmors #fantasy #it takes me a long time to respond to letters sorry... i’ll slowly answer a few more XvX #hmmmm it seems like I haven’t drawn my favorite maiar for six years

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

Outta curiosity: didn’t the feanorians technically fulfill the oath? Like, yeah the jewels burned Maedhros and Maglor for their crimes, but they did get the jewels into their grasps and belong to them, so technically the oath itself is fulfilled, right?

I might be wrong though

#lord of the rings #lotr #silmarillion #the hobbit #lotr elves #sons of feanor #oath of feanor #question #please answer #genuinly curious #maglor #maedhros #silmarils

[tanoraqui]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone write about the Flight of the Noldor with the honestly reasonable argument, “Why don’t we all wait until Finwë returns from Mandos and see what he has to say?” and I can only assume it’s because we all intuitively agree that Fëanor does not for a second think his father is going to return, ever. Parents don’t return from Mandos, especially when their death is your fault; that’s just another pretty lie the Valar tell to make you stop weeping and shouting.

#feanor #the silmarillion #feanor and feanor’s kin #finwe #also it’s not like finwe was helping resolve these questions BEFORE but that’s not the point