tonight i was thinking about orv’s theme about how yjh as a character, and to a larger extent people, will in some ways always be unknowable. (orv spoilers following, read at your own risk)
i feel like i’ve seen a few posts on here that somewhat take this theme to an extreme, leaning *hard* into that “kdj doesn’t actually know yjh like at all” which while on the right track, i feel completely misses the point. Orv goes out of its way to showcase that kdj actually understands yjh to a scary degree, even once they’re out of the early scenarios and the gap between kdj’s knowledge and yjh’s personhood grows larger, there are still things about yjh that *only* kdj can fundamentally understand. And I don’t think that the novel does anything to discredit that understanding, only says that there is much more to yjh. In the same manner, even if you’ve known someone for years, spent all your time with them, there can and will always be new things for you to learn about them. The danger that orv speaks of is trusting in that assumption, that your understanding will be enough and you don’t have to keep an eye out for more developments. That the person you know will forever stay the same. And this isn’t a kdj problem either, fundamentally a lot of the big disagreements that happen between kdj and yjh in the latter half of the novel are born from both of them misconstruing what the other is thinking, trusting that their understanding of the other is deep enough to base their judgements off of. (Post first murim destruction, divorce arc, yjh thinking kdj scattered his soul on purpose, etc.)
As always with orv’s themes, we can view it in a meta sense as well. Kdj’s understanding of yjh as a character is so complete that it’s nearly flawless- until the story begins to deviate and a yjh grows outside the parameters that kdj’s judgements are based on. Even before then, there was always more to yjh- but as readers, we can only understand a character as much as we see them. What you come away with from a story is your complete understanding, there is no growth outside of those boundaries because then it wouldn’t be an understanding of *that* character, you would be putting your own ideas and such into it. But talk to another person, and suddenly the same character you understand so clearly becomes someone else. Talk to the author, and they say something completely different. And can one truly claim to understand a character when the story will never talk about them in every conceivable way? What does it take to truly understand such a thing? Learning that 1863rd round hsy wrote ways of survival with such limited resources and knowledge on who yjh even is, and yet despite it all, still manages to write a story that captures so much of his essence. As orv readers, we know it isn’t everything- it could never encapsulate all of yjh, but the idea that even when one knows nearly nothing, you can still put on a facade of understanding.
We can get into a chicken or the egg argument with this, as 1863!hsy dictates how yjh acts with her writing, and that yjh in the 1863rd round is the one she comes to know before ever starting this story, but when it comes to this theme of the unknowable in the people around us, I don’t think this sort of debate is worth much. We know that yjh exists outside the story written, and how much of him is determined by hsy’s writing is negligible because no matter what, he always grows beyond it. Whether as 1864 or secretive plotter, it all comes back to that same point of there is always more to see within a person.
I don’t know quite where I want to go with this, only that I wanted an outlet for some of these thoughts inside my head, but one of the best things about this theme for me is how it answers itself. When the people around you become unrecognizable, what should you do? And orv says to reach out. To try. To understand. Kdj loses access to omniscient reader several times but always, always gains it back in orv (as far as i remember), because at the end of the day, he is not someone who stays trapped in his idea of who he knows yjh to be. Yjh too, even at the end of orv, is trying to learn more and more about kdj. Only when you are willing to hear out the other person, to learn about them every day, does this unknowable aspect become something less daunting.
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I'm not naming and shaming op because i dont want nonsense on me page but op is so bland and almost puritan like. Yeah they are awful and godless and hate each other to the death and that is why they are balls funny. Did anyone ever say Seinfeld was bad comedy because he wasn't a moral role model. Growth and feelings schmeelings lmao. "Abusive family" literally me when I can't read nuance. The whole point of family is yeah there will be some aunt or uncle or grandpa who makes lewd jokes and has outdated problematic world views whom you can't spend more than ten minutes with ((Julian and Fanny)). There will be an annoying sibling or cousin whom you will have to shake off at every turn, who never seems to be able to learn "no" for an answer no matter how many times you tell them ((Thomas and Kitty)). But the idea of family also means they've got your back in spite of it all at the end of the day ((the burglars! The "sister" scammer! The Fiji bank account!)). And that is the poignancy of it, because they dont necessarily like you all the time and vice versa, and you know each other at your most intolerable, but you're still willing to help each other out when it matters despite it all. You want cotton candy clouds and sunshine and daffodils go cry me a river to titanic and steven universe instead. Terminally unfunny take glad ye enjoyed your bland american ghosts tho.
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relistening to the second half of midst 2.16 for like the eighth time. feeling really unhinged about the fact that one of the first things saskia says to hieronymous is "i didn't expect to see you again ever." they're clearly friends and clearly close but she still at least on some level expected their different roles in their shared mission was going to keep them apart forever, or that it was going to get one or both of them killed before they got a chance to see each other again! and she had good reason to think that! she watched sherman be nearly killed in front of her during a raid! she herself was nearly arrested, and now knows her position's been exposed and the trust could come back for her any day! she only survived the tearror by luck! not to mention what we now know about the specter of nick and maggie fleit's murder hanging over both their heads!
and yet by the end of the conversation what she says is "maybe someday we won't have to pretend we don't know each other." it's "maybe" and it's "someday" and it's a little wry but still, she didn't expect to see him again ever and here they both are! it's the choosing to still have hope it's the choosing to believe in the possibility of the best outcome or to at least say out loud you do even if you can't quite get there internally. but it's also about having the friend to whom you can admit you honestly didn't think you'd make it this far because you know he's risking just as much as you are and is just as committed to it. UGH saskia del norma the woman you are....
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