Hey, I started reading Robin son of Batman because of your recommendation (I literally have a print of your post on my phone to not forget lol). Honestly? One of the best things I ever read!!!
Thank you for opening my eyes! Damian has been one of my favorite characters for over a year, but I didn't read/watch much of him because of school, life (and probably an executive dysfunction in the mix).
Maya is incredible. I loved her.
I haven't finished all the issues yet, but do you have any other recommendations?
WAH this makes me so happy, i'm glad you still gave it a shot even with how busy life is!! ;v;
i’d love to give reccs, and i’ll try to go a beginner friendly route! tbh you can pick up whatever here, but since you've read R:SOB i’d immediately follow up with Batman and Robin (2011) #1-8! this first arc is what’s referred to in Maya’s introduction, and it's just. so good.
Main Books
Batman and Robin (2009)
Dick as Batman with Damian as his Robin!
#20-22 Tree of Blood: Dark Knight vs White Knight arc is done by Tomasi and Gleason, the team for the next Batman and Robin series
*Batman and Robin (2011)
Bruce and Damian figuring out their relationship as both Batman & Robin and father & son
imo you can enjoy the ride and read straight through this but i’ll add context to avoid as much confusion as possible since there’s the occasional tie-in or offscreen events, like Damian’s death nbd
Batman Incorporated (2012) #1-10
events leading to Damian's death - affects Batman and Robin (2011) from issue #18
kind of a tough read especially with how Talia's written, but a lot of iconic bits like Batcow, Damian's vegetarian declaration, Alfred the cat, "We Were the Best, Richard."
Robin (2021)
another self-discovery adventure, particularly after Alfred’s death and a fallout with Bruce (and questionable writing choices from his last Teen Titans run)
Batman and Robin (2023)
currently ongoing! after a number of events, Bruce and Damian are back as a duo
Damian Dynamics!
Batman: Streets of Gotham (2009) #7, 10-12
arc where Damian meets one of his first Gotham friends, Colin Wilkes
Batgirl (2009) #5-7, #17
Steph and Damian dynamic! "the bad cop, worse cop" dysfunctional duo
Red Robin (2009) #13-14
early Tim and Damian dynamic that of course includes fighting haha. funny enough, accidentally my first intro to Damian LOL
Teen Titans (2003) #89-92
Dick!Batman has Damian join the Teen Titans. Start of Damian and Rose Wilson dynamic that’s extended in Robin (2021)
Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)
Damian meets Cass and has a brief team up
Gotham Academy (2015) #7
Damian meets Maps Mizoguchi! they have a few other meetings, but outside of that the series itself is a great read!
Robin War Event (2015)
Robin War (2015) #1, Grayson (2014) #15, Detective Comics (2011) #47, We Are Robin (2015) #7, Robin: Son of Batman (2015) #7, Robin War (2015) #2
Duke and Damian dynamic! not exactly beginner friendly but these are the main issues in order for the event! you can also read the TPB version for everything including Tie-Ins
Nightwing (2016) #16-20, #42, #43
#16-20 Nightwing and Robin arc!
#42 Dick on a mission to save Damian! the one appearance of "Wiggles" the dragon
#43 Dick, Roy, and Damian team-up
New Talent Showcase 2018 "Catwoman: Pedigree"
Selina, Damian, and Alfred the cat
Batman: Prelude to the Wedding - Robin vs. Ra's Al Ghul (2018)
Selina, Damian, and Cheese Viking - Damian's fav game shown in Nightwing: Rebirth (2016)
Monkey Prince (2022) #1-4
Marcus Sun Shugel-Shen's main comic, but Damian features as a fun dynamic here before they're in more serious circumstances in Batman VS Robin (2022)/Lazarus Planet event
Superman (2016) #10 - 11
the beginning of the Super Sons! featuring Maya!
Super Sons (2017)
solitary arcs but there’s a few event tie-in issues later
Adventures of the Super Sons (2018)
literally more Super Sons adventures lol galactic shenanigans yeehaw
Challenge of the Super Sons (2020)
Super Sons time shenanigans feat. the Justice League
Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)
"Boy Wonders" - brief Damian feature as Tim considers his next step in life
"My Best Friend" - Jon's thoughts on Damian and their dynamic
"Bat and Mouse" - refers to Damian's unfortunate Teen Titans (2016) run at the time of release which follows up with Teen Titans Annual #2 where Damian briefly gives up Robin
Extra Comics!
Superman/Batman (2003) #77
Kara and Damian in a Halloween team-up! also the appearance of "Li'l Matches" lol
DCU Halloween Special '09 "Cavity Search"
Damian out on a solo mission for Halloween night. Immediately after is Tim's Red Robin story "Then and Now: Our Father's Sins" which is more somber in contrast but also a good read!
DCU Halloween Special 2010 "Robin the Vampire Slayer"
a Dick!Batman and Robin story featuring the vampire Andrew Bennett
Cursed Comics Cavalcade (2018) "The Devil You Know"
Halloween themed comic with a sweet short story of Damian alongside Solomon Grundy
DC's Terrors Through Time (2022)
"Trick or Treat" a Super Sons Halloween story
"The Haunting of Wayne Manor" Damian and Deadman story - in the end, Boston kinda refers to Nezha's possession of Damian in Batman VS Robin (2022) which was happening at the time of this release
Batman: Li'l Gotham (2013)
lighthearted series that instantly makes me smile with the silliness and Dustin Nguyen’s art i love this dearly
Secret Origins (2014) #4 "A Boy's Life"
a retelling of Damian's origin story
Detective Comics (2016) #1001-1005
Batman and Robin vs the Arkham Knight (unrelated to the game)
Truth & Justice (2021) #6/#16 - 18 Digital First version
cute story of Damian’s birthday! Juni Ba’s art is so fun!!
DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) “Special Delivery”
short story about Damian! and poisoned pizzas. completely forgot the artist Sami Basri drew Rebirth Damian here before catboy Damian lol Cass’s story “Sounds” is also cute! Marcus makes his first appearance in "The Monkey Prince Hates Superheroes"
DC VS Vampires (2021)
Damian makes appearances throughout this elseworlds book, but the one-shot DC VS Vampires: Hunters (2022) is vampire Damian-centric!
Batman: Black and White (2021) #5
“Father & Son Outing” short story written and drawn by Jorge Jimenez!
Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #20-23
#20 “My Son” Talia and Bruce focus
#20 - 23 “The Murder Club” 4 Parts
Tiny Titans (2008) #33, #39, #45, #47
a few appearances but SO CUTE, LOOK AT HIM
*Batman and Robin (2011) reading guide
i'm mostly trying to avoid the "what did i just walk in on?" kinda feeling when i first started reading comics LOL i'll list the comics where events take place, but you don't necessarily have to read them to go through this book since things are usually explained as quickly as possible in the first page or so
#0 Someday Never Comes
Talia and baby Damian before he grows up to meet Bruce
#1-8 Born to Kill
just an incredibly solid arc for Bruce and Damian!
#9 Court of Owls Tie-In Issue
Damian VS a Court of Owls Talon. While Bruce is occupied with a home invasion of Talons, Alfred makes a call for allies to protect targeted Gotham public figures from Talons. During Batman (2011) #1-11
#10-12 Terminus
Damian challenges the previous Robins sans Steph
Batman Incorporated (2012) is occurring at this time where Talia has placed a bounty on Damian and there's small mentions of that
#13-14 Eclipsed/Devoured
mostly solitary arc! end of it leads into the Death of the Family event
#15-16 Death of the Family Tie-In Issues
Damian and Joker face-off... Alfred's been kidnapped by the Joker, and Damian goes looking for him. During Batman (2011) #13-17
#17 Life is but a Dream - Death of the Family Epilogue
a sort of subconscious check-in through the dreams of Damian, Alfred, and Bruce. Nightwing (2011) #17 features Damian encouraging Dick after Death of the Family events
#18 Undone "Requiem"
Bruce dealing with Damian's death from Batman Incorporated #8
other reactions to Damian's death: Dick in Nightwing (2011) #18, Tim in Teen Titans (2011) #18
#19-23 Denial, Rage, The Bargain, Despair, Acceptance
Bruce through the stages of grief with some batfam appearances in each. also introduces Carrie Kelley into continuity as Damian's acting tutor.
Batman (2011) #19-20 also addresses Bruce's loss
#23.1-23.4
these could be skipped - villain stories, also related to Forever Evil event.
#24-28 The Big Burn
optional Batman and Two-Face/Harvey Dent arc, #23.1 is part of this story!
Damian's resurrection and return
#29-32 The Hunt for Robin
Ras took Talia and Damian's bodies from their graves, and Bruce goes after him.
-> Robin Rises: Omega
continues events from #32. if you don't want to jump to this, basically, Glorious Godfrey and a bunch of parademons from Apokolips are here for a chaos shard which Ra's put in Damian's sarcophagus. at some point, Bruce gets a hold of the shard where he sees a vision that leads him to believe Damian can be resurrected. Godfrey ends up taking the shard, along with Damian's body since it was emitting the same energy.
#33-37 Robin Rises
Bruce hellbent on retrieving Damian from Apokolips and reviving him
-> Robin Rises: Alpha
necessary to read and continues events from #37! Damian's back with a bang lol
#38-40 Superpower
Damian adjusting to having superpowers and being alive again
Annual #1 2013 Batman Impossible
sweet (and funny) one-shot of Damian sending Bruce on a meaningful scavenger hunt around the world while Damian gets to be the cutest Batman for a bit
Annual #2 2014 Batman and Robin: Week One
one-shot takes place during Damian's absence. after Bruce and Alfred find a mystery gift left for Dick, Dick recounts a story he had told Damian from his Robin days.
Annual #3 2015 Moonshot
one-shot Batman and Robin adventure on the moon!
...and of course after Batman and Robin (2011), Damian's story continues in his first solo Robin: Son of Batman (2015)!
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Can't send asks from my sideblog, but this is @chewing-the-drywall
I feel like much of s2 fell into Frenchie's "we put it in the box and then lock it and don't open it again" in the sense that it set up A LOT that I was intrigued about how they would address it, but it either never was mentioned again or was handled poorly.
Examples range from light, like how I wish we saw more of the crew interacting with each other in ways that built on their characters from S1, where in S2 they didn't feel any more developed, or even regressed. (Example, Fang used the word Fingies 2-3 times through S2, and it felt like they were using it almost as a shorthand for his character, rather than making him feel more real and multidimensional as a character.)
100% @chewing-the-drywall. When I first heard that line I had I was so excited for the story to prove Frenchie wrong. Or show how important it can be to put aside problems to stay alive in the moment. But in the end, this one line summarized how the season handled everyone, besides Stede and Ed. Below, is an in depth discussion on where this season decided to spend it's limited amount of time. Instead of focusing on the characters and plotlines they'd already established.
This season had so MANY ideas it wanted to touch on.
Izzy trying to deal with his unrequited love and opening up to a new way of living. The traumatized 'Revenge' crew trying to adapt to a softer way of life again. The abandoned crew learning how to help their traumatized friends. Introducing new characters like Zheng, Auntie, and Archie into our main group. Setting up a conflict to resolve in season three. Along the way, referencing Pirates of history like Ned Low, Mary Reed, and Anne Bonny.
Notice, I've said all this and we're not even at our romantic leads.
Which is fine. Stories are fluid things. As long as the story knows how to flow from our leads to our side characters. Which leads us to how I feel this show took a lot of time away from establishing our central crew-
[Warning- this will be a controversial opinion- I want to know what y'all think about this] Zheng/Oluwande. This seasons habit of retreading old plotlines and referencing scenes from S1.
What S1 did so well was paralleling the side stories with what was going on with Ed/Stede. Usually, highlighting how well Stede/Ed worked by showing how much Ed/Izzy DIDN'T work. Or general hijinks that tied into the plot (Oluwande and Frenchie on the French ship).
Season 2 chose to parallel our main story with what was going on between Zheng/Oluwande as a budding romance and Izzy's slow recovery. The reason Zheng/Oluwande scenes felt like a waste for me in that the story was JUST a retelling the story we watched from S1.
A frustrated first mate(Auntie), and a legendary captain(Zheng) fighting over the captain falling in love with an idiot(Olu). In season 2, much like every callback for me, it felt like it slowed down the plot by pulling us out of the story. Like...yeah, you did the thing again, do you want me to applaud you for it?
I LIKE Zheng and Oluwande as a couple! I like that Oluwande was debating leaving Stede and taking Jim and Archie with him. But at the same time, I didn't care about Zheng until episode 7 when she beat up Stede, showing that yes. She's not just some all powerful woman taken down by a mix of love(the crew in ep3) and thinking that she was above it all (ep 7). She's fast on her feet, smart, and willing to stab someone who gets in her way. She's her own person. But.
Every other scene that established her was about her romance, felt like we could have put Rhys and Taika in there. It didn't feel...unique. It's as if the show only knows 1 way to write a romance between a badass and a bumbling idiot. Again. Oluwande in season 1 wasn't dumb in the same way everyone else was. He was protective of Jim, a bit nervous overall, but he was the person the crew chose to lead them. The season just dumbed everyone down a bit and called it a day.
This comes to the larger issue. When we only have eight episodes I don't want to rewatch the exact same plot beats with different characters. Time spent here ends up taking away from other stories we could have told about trauma and growing as a family and other forms of growing as a family. We didn't need another romance plot line. Imagine taking this time instead to show Lucius reaching out to Pete AND the crew for help. Or Frenchie finally feeling safe enough to play his lute. Or Roach helping Fang get over his thing with cakes-you get my point.
The fact we took all the found family stuff from season one, and pushed it onto only Izzy in S2 means when he dies, all the found family shit falls away. His death makes us realize we've been ignoring the central family we were supposed to care about. Because in so many words, their trauma was ignored.
[I even theorize if Izzy was alive and sailed away with them. Showing how he was taken in and loved by his crew, the ending wouldn't feel so hollow. This crew doesn't feel like a caring family. The person who protected them for months died, wasn't mourned, and then they threw a wedding the same day. Not even a full day to mourn. The 'New Revenge' feels like a heartless crew of characters we barely recognize because they aren't a family like they were at the end of S1. More like coworkers who sometimes fall in love with eachother.]
Trauma, Timelines, and Tonal issues when jumping from Episodes 1-3 to Episodes 4-5.
When the crews meet up, the story chooses to focus on the fun plot. Ed and Stede recovering their relationship, only dipping back into that serious tone when Izzy or Lucius come on screen to 'make things sad' again. I don't think the transition from 'serious' to 'comedy' was handled well.
I don't have an official timeline of the events of season two. But from what I remember, everything happens within 2 weeks.
In episode 4, Stede ignored the vote of his crew- to let the man who was torturing half his 'FAMILY' for at least 80 days- back aboard. This rubbed me the wrong way, as it showed Stede being a selfish prick in a way that could seriously harm his crew. That's when I started to see how not adding a *single* time-skip mid-season would hurt S2.
Imagine if we had a one-week off-screen time skip between episodes 4 and 5.
Maybe it's implied that they stay in that town for a bit. Izzy would a bit more time to learn to move on his new leg and start to open up to those he already trusts. Include a scene of Izzy WITH the crew, maybe laughing about something with the old traumatized crew, even if it's just a 30-second opener. Imply that the traumatized crew would have more time to settle in with the family they miss. Show that yeah, the traumatized crew needs more time to heal. Imply at the start of the 'Ed apology' that Ed and Stede have had more time to talk their issues out.
THEN have Ed apologize. You can even keep the bullshit corporate to show that Ed still has to work for this.
Healing takes time. Setting a series over the span of two weeks after half your cast was tortured by your lead love interest? After five of your main crew thought they would sail off into a storm and die after months of stress and life threatening battles? Why did that shit get shoved to the side so quickly?
Framing episode 5 as the START of Ed making amends with the crew, only to drop the plot by episode 7? Not a smart move. Because let's be honest, 'poison into positivity' in episode 6, referring to the fact that they sold all of Ed's loot to pay for the party, ignores the sacrifices the crew made to live that long. (The death of Ivan, and intense trauma they all need to work through). In a way, Ed throwing this party was him asking the crew to start putting everything away in that imaginary box.
It's Ed retroactively letting himself say 'hey, that time I spent torturing my captives was worth it because we got something good out of it' while still ignoring his own guilt. Ed needed to take accountability for his actions. No more 'I took 'a' mans leg' bullshit. The reason his arc feels so unsatisfying is that the plot easily forgives him. Fuck. I hate what they did for Ed's arc, but that's not the point.
Overall.
My issue with this season is not that it chose to do these topics, it's that it didn't think about the implications of what they were bringing up. It didn't dare to think 'maybe it's fucked if we quickly brush off a trauma like this'. Again. I know we have to blame MAX for cutting off two episodes. But I don't think 2 additional episodes would fix a tone problem seen going from episodes 3-4.
Fucking hell. Each member of the revenge had the potential for their own arc, so it's baffling to see them all reduced to 'well meaning idiot' when they all felt so fleshed out in S1.
When izzy gives his speech about belonging, there's a reason the only image in the show of the crew all together was from S1.
At the end of the day, Season 2 didn't let our surviving side characters grow. This is a mean spirited bit on how I feel the writers see the their own characters.
Stede and Ed are our leads. They won't die, not in this genera. Their shitty actions will be forgiven because it's a comedy, and as long as it's joked about, it holds no weight. They won't die. They won't get fatally hurt. Their trauma will be taken seriously, but it's a 50/50 on if they'll talk about it before breaking up again. They will eventually get a happy ending, their trauma looked at head on, because duh.
Jim, Olu, Lucius, Pete? Characters who used to have defined personalities in S1, but haven't been defined much beyond their relationships with their partners? Whose trauma might be mentioned, but will quickly be 'resolved' in one scene? Shame. Seems like they're only useful as set dressing, But we might make you useful as interchangeable side characters to riff against. Oh, and you're in love! Isn't that cool!
Izzy? I'll just quote Jenkins here. "To have him become a father figure to Blackbeard, and on some level to the rest of the crew, and to see him become the heart of why we’re giving pirates the chance to stand for being able to live how you choose. In reality, they’re thieves and criminals, but what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy." So...Is Izzy a pirate and accepted into the Revenge family? Or is he still an outsider? Jenkins gave us a romcom but still defines Izzy's character as that of one stuck in a drama/tragedy. Point and laugh, because tonally these two things clash HARD and will make an audience lose trust in it's writers unless well established. Leading us to the entire issue we've pointed out of not letting your characters actions hold in dramatic weight in your story.
Frenchie, Wee John, Roach, and Fang- Ah. No love interests again...shit. Well. Background actors it is... for now. We'll see. But we need 2 more scenes of the couple breaking up, so MAYBE you'll get some backstory hinted at in dialogue. You all have 1 thing your good at, so that's easy enough to put you where you belong.
Buttons and Swede? Well. They're still alive!! Don't be sad, fans :) The actors just couldn't show up anymore. We don't want our silly happy queer pirate rom com to not end on a happy ending! (Closes the lid of the trash can where they're keep Con O'Neill a bit tighter, thanking God Con was silenced by a strike this entire season from social media)
Do you agree, or disagree? Leave any lingering thoughts down below!
I'd love to chat down below.
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I absolutely should be writing my fic but instead, I'm going to discuss the realization I had while talking to @wanderingwriter87 that Julian apparently made Garak read fucking KEATS, canonically in the show. One of the most romantic writers ever. Okay.*
In Broken Link (S4x26), when talking to a Bajoran woman he wants to set Odo up with, he says "a thing of beauty is a joy forever" which is a reference to Book 1 of Endymion.
Now, it's a reasonably well-known poem, but not really the most popular of Keats' work and definitely not one that I think he would have picked up randomly without Julian's suggestion. And it's making me INSANE!! Because the overall plot of the four-book poem is about a Shepard who falls in love with the moon goddess Selena (renamed Cynthia in the poem.) To make an extremely long poem short- and I'm cutting a lot of plot points here- in the end, after tragedy and extreme challenges, they escape together. They're from two fundamentally different worlds, she's a goddess and he's a Shepard but their LOVE allows them to be together forever.
Like are you KIDDING me?? Julian gave Garak a love poem about two people who shouldn't love each other, finding each other over impossible odds (again, I'm cutting a whole plot point where he falls in love with another woman who turns out to be Cynthia in disguise but I digress), only to have him leave his home for them to be together.
Before his goddess, in a blissful swoon.
She gave her fair hands to him, and behold,
Before three swiftest kisses he had told,
They vanish'd far away!
Anyway- please consider that Julian was really out here giving Garak ROMANTIC EPICS at their book club. They were sitting across from each other discussing how love can still exist between people who are from different paths in life. Bitch- WHAT?? What's next?? Making him read the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice??
*Disclaimer: It is also possible that Garak just knows the expression "a thing of beauty is a joy forever" and doesn't know it's from a human poet.
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