I'm sorry but the post breaking down the Arya-Jeyne-North angle makes no sense. The Boltons are claiming Winterfell through the marriage to Arya aka Jeyne who is considered the Lady of Winterfell by her own birthright. They're not trying to claim Winterfell was given to them by the crown or no longer belongs to the Starks. Ramsay didn't even want to get married at Winterfell when Roose made the call to move the wedding location from Barrowton. He's claiming himself Lord of Winterfell the same way he claimed himself Lord of Hornwood through the forced marriage to Lady Donella and even Lady Dustin says him keeping his title is dependent on how he treats his wife. He needs the marriages to claim those titles, not the other way around. At no point in Dance is Jeyne ever considered Lady Bolton, she's always called Lady Arya. That's like arguing Sansa's marriage to Tyrion means the claim to Winterfell comes from Tyrion, not Sansa.
You can argue that Jeyne and Ramsay's marriage is invalid because both got married under false pretenses as the bride was pretending to be someone else, but that wouldn't negate Arya's position as Lady of Winterfell if she intends to claim the title. I think it's intentional on GRRM's part to make the question of Stark succession jumbled enough that all five of them can technically stake their claim whether through birth order, sex, legitimized degrees, might makes right and the power behind them, or simply having the claim bestowed on them before the others make themselves known.
Buckle up, it’s a long one.
I am going to go on a limb here and presume you didn’t read the whole post, did you? I literally said it a million and one times that Arya’s claim comes from her being a Stark. That is the entire point of my post.
The north believing that Jeyne is Arya (“Lady Aryq”) doesn’t make Arya Jeyne or the Lady of Winterfell by proxy. Y’all are literally running around in circles here, nothing makes sense. At one point you are claiming that Ramsay is claiming his authority through Arya because she already is the lady of Winterfell and on the other hand you’re saying that bringing Arya to the north and marrying her to Ramsay made her the Lady of Winterfell in the eyes of the Northern Lords and the readers. Make it make sense. Anyway, Lady is a title granted to all noblewomen of higher houses, a lot like how Miss/Mister worked in the 1800s to now (sort of). Arya would be Lady Arya of House Stark regardless of whether she is the heir to House Stark or not. The Lady Stark or the Lady of Winterfell will only be Catelyn Stark as it is a social position granted to the wife of the head of the House. If she had a sister-in-law, say Benjen didn’t go to the nights watch and got married, that woman would also be Lady Stark (or Lady her-maiden-name) but she would not be the Lady of Winterfell, are you getting me? The people here could be referring to Arya as ‘Lady’ because she’s a highborn girl and comes from the most noble house of the north. That makes her one of the people with the highest social standing; which I feel warrants the use of the word Lady, not to be confused with the feudal position.
I know you’re trying to play the whole Arya is the last of Starks and that is why she is the Lady of Winterfell and that is from where the Boltons are legitimising their claim to the north. But Arya is not the last of the Starks. She still has an older sister (that they know is alive when they decided on the marriage) and two brothers whose claim is superior to hers no matter how you argue. On top of that, the girl that is actually married to Ramsay is not even Arya. Arya is in Braavos training with the faceless men. Regardless, never once throughout the books, is she called the head of house stark or lady stark or the lady of Winterfell and have that be given as a reason as to why the North should fight for her. She is ‘Ned’s precious little girl’ and that is enough. Literally pulled Lady of Winterfell out of your ass.
“They’re not trying to claim the north was given to them by the crown or no longer belonging to the starks” is an insane statement to make when the royal decree is literally the only leg they have to stand on, and that they are now the unequivocal lords of Winterfell is literally exactly what they’re claiming. Bruh. Bobby B winning the crown by conquest is still valid but the Baratheons being distant cousins of the Targaryens helped. The Boltons need Stark blood to strengthen their claim not create a claim from a non-existent one, which is why they married “Arya” and which is also exactly why just any girl, and not Arya herself, worked. It is all for show.
Okay, scratch all of that. Let me make it simple. The Bolton’s claim to the north literally comes from being granted the north by royal decree. Marrying “Arya Stark” just gives the loyal northerners less reason to fight against Bolton rulership. So the Bolton derive their authority by literally being given the North by the crown after killing Robb Stark and hope to retain that claim in front of the northern lords by seemingly marrying “Arya Stark”. The former is legally and politically important. The latter is socially important. If the North wasn’t actually granted to the Boltons, Ramsay marrying Arya wouldn’t have done jack to their claim, sorry. Which leads me to the latter, having a political marriage between the Boltons and the Starks reduces the chances of a revolt by the “more loyal” northern lords. “Even Lady Dustin says him keeping his title depends on how he treats his wife”. Yes, so as to not anger the northern lords. If his claim was from the ladyship of his wife, then it wouldn’t have depended on how he treated her. Eg. Lady Hornwood. How are you proving my own point here.
Ramsay doesn’t derive his authority from his wife who is the Lady of Winterfell. He doesn’t even derive it from his wife. He married a “Stark” because it merely quells the rumbling of a revolt and makes the Boltons more palpatable as Wardens of the North. Moreover, if they were deriving the claim from Arya then Ramsay would be the Lord of Winterfell but he’s not, Roose is. If the Boltons really wanted to lay a claim to the north by marrying Arya, then they would have torn apart heaven and earth to find the real one and married the her, and that too to Roose, not Ramsay. But they can’t, because she inherently doesn’t hold that power. This also doesn’t mean that she is less of a Stark so don’t think I am trying to say that.
Do you think if hypothetically Lord Manderly married his son to Arya, would that automatically make him the liege lord of the north? Does marrying Lysa to Jon Arryn make Jon Arryn’s father the ruling lord of the Riverlands? Does it even make Jon the ruling lord of the riverlands? Even if Hoster and Edmure were dead, neither Jon Arryn nor his father would have no claim to the Riverlands. Where is this logic even coming from? It’s clearly not in universe. Your argument about Lady Hornwood holds no water because there was no royal decree that proclaimed him as the Lord of Hornwood. If there was, he wouldn’t need to marry Lady Hornwood herself, even any of her daughters to appease her subjects because her subjects are not noble houses with armies of their own. Hornwood is not the entirety of the North. The North is half the continent and therefore holds much more political sway. Hornwood is a small House. How are you even drawing parallels here? The Boltons won’t just hand wave away the royal fucking decree for no good reason especially when they stabbed and betrayed their own King for it. What made you even think of this???
Lastly, this is not GRRM trying to muddle the Stark succession. This is GRRM trying to show the reader that sometimes people with less social standing and power are abused simply because those higher than them can get away with it. He means to say that this is something that will not happen to someone from a bigger House. This was to highlight the inherently lopsided, power-imbalanced, oppressive system that is cruel to those it deems weak.
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hold on ok i belted out a brief laughingstock Scene for possible future use that i Had to write down bc if i didn't, i'd never remember it. and why not share?
~
“Barnaby? Barnaby, old chap, are you with me?”
Barnaby blinks, registering the green fingers snapping in front of his nose. He huffs a laugh and pushes Howdy’s hand away. “Yeah, yeah, I’m listenin’. You were saying?”
Howdy gives him an exasperated look, a fond look. “Thinking about running off to a farm again, were you?”
“Nah, just the clouds. They’re a lot less work.”
“Well I’d rather you didn’t. Who would I talk to during the long hours if you went and floated off?” Howdy winks before turning to his shelves, already yammering away about something or other.
Something or other that Barnaby is once again not listening to, because what was that? Barnaby quickly presses his cool paw-pads to his burning cheeks, feeling the bristling fur there.
Has Howdy ever winked at him? Now that he’s noticed it, Barnaby can’t recall. If it’s new, then why? Why a wink of all things? What did that mean? And that look Howdy gave him…
Barnaby adjusts his abruptly too-tight tie. It’s unusually warm in the store, isn’t it? Howdy must have forgotten to turn on the AC.
Gosh, what is Howdy even saying? He’s still talking, but Barnaby hasn’t absorbed a word. He can’t even tell if Howdy is still speaking english. It’s all garbled.
There’s something wrong with Barnaby. He must be coming down with something… or he’s just overthinking it. Overworking the ol’ noggin. A good long nap should set him right.
“Listen,” Barnaby interrupts, patting the counter, “I uh, I don’t know where my head’s at. I better go find it - I’ll see you later, okay?”
“Oh… alright, then,” Howdy says, a tinge of disappointment in his voice.
Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking. Barnaby slaps that thought out of the park. He doesn’t want Howdy to be disappointed, that’s absurd. That’s something a bad friend would think. Barnaby may be many things, but a bad friend isn’t one of them.
“I’ll whip up a joke that’ll knock your socks off next time I see ya,” Barnaby promises. He smiles around the discomfort and the entirely new feeling squirming around each other in his chest.
“Now you’ve gone and brought up my expectations,” Howdy says. He leans on the counter and grins. “Are you sure you can back up such a claim, Mr. Beagle?”
Another hot flush races under Barnaby’s fur, and to his growing mortification, his tail starts wagging at breakneck speed. He lets out an uncharacteristically nervous laugh and backs away from the counter. To both of their horror, his back hits a shelf, making it rattle and tip.
“Oh, sh-” Barnaby lunges to right it before it can topple. He whips around and laughs again. Howdy’s wide-eyed stare burns. “Sorry ‘bout that! Talk about a bulldog in a bugshop, geez.”
“When you find your head, make sure to screw it on nice and tight,” Howdy says, a strange look on his face to match his tone. “And check your temperature while you’re at it - it’s not like you to be off-balance.”
“I wouldn’t say I’m off-balance,” Barnaby says. He inches towards the door, willing his stupid tail to calm down. “I just have ears instead of rearview mirrors.”
“Uh-huh…” Howdy slides to the side, trying to peer around him.
Barnaby fumbles for the door. The scrape and bang of his search for the handle echoes in the quiet store. One of Howdy’s eyebrows creeps higher the longer Barnaby stands there, making a complete fool of himself.
Finally, the door clicks, and Barnaby nearly tumbles over backwards in his haste to get out. He stumbles down the steps and briskly walks away, adjusting his hat and tie. As soon as he’s out of sight, he slaps his paws to his face and sags against the bodega.
“Idiot,” he hisses to himself. He presses his back flat against the wall and slams the side of his fist against it. Normally, Barnaby would use a situation like this to his advantage. But Howdy wasn’t laughing, and Barnaby wasn’t being funny. “Bulldog in a - gah, idiot!”
Great. Now Howdy thinks he’s not only a clumsy oaf, but that he’s losing his touch too.
Barnaby growls in frustration, pushing off the wall and stomping away from the plaza on all fours. What does he care what Howdy thinks of him? Others’ opinions of Barnaby have never been anywhere near his list of top priorities - barring Wally’s, of course. If they were, he'd never tell another joke again.
Yes, Howdy is a good friend of Barnaby’s. A close friend, even. But since when has he had such a - such an effect? Barnaby shakes his head, growling again.
There was no effect. Barnaby is just going insane. Or he’s getting sick, like Howdy implied. That would explain the sudden hot flash, the loss of typically impeccable coordination, and, oh yeah! Barnaby’s brain leaking out of his ears.
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i want lime to tell mochi shes pretty 🥺
I DO TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what im realizing about lime more and more (and especially in contrast to taffy) is how uhhh not vocal he is about how he feels when it comes to romantic emotions (which i know isnt a big surprise but ive been meditating on it A LOT recently, and actually working it into his character a lot more. i am increasing the romantic muzzle on him)
so SAME I WANT HIM TO SO BAD!!!!!!!!!! and it would take SO MUCH for him to work up enough guts to say it to her (even if its a short 2 second sentence or something)
but what sucks is that mochi will still think hes just saying it to be nice or to make her feel better, so shed smile and say like "haha thanks" to move the conversation away from it, but he could TELL RIGHT AWAY that she doesnt believe him and essentially dismissed it and it PISSES HIM OFF SO BAD!!!!! HES LIKE "I was struggling for THREE DAYS to figure out how to tell her or if I should tell her and I get a shitty 'haha thanks'??? Shes just brushing it off???!!"
which would actually probably lead to a really cute moment because the irritation would fuel him enough to grab her arm and DRILL IT INTO HER HEAD that hes not kidding or saying it to be nice or something. think full on, youre-the-most-beautiful-thing-ive-ever-seen-in-my-life-any-guy-would-chop-off-his-own-arm-just-to-speak-to-you-for-five-seconds-youre-so-drop-dead-gorgeous kind of rambling, the whole time her face is like. slowly increase the saturation slider to red.
and it starts getting into DANGEROUS territory for him because hes not necessarily filtering anything hes saying and it starts to sound a little less like "You are an objectively pretty girl" speech, and sounds more like a "I am attracted to you" kind of speech
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