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warrenwaskilledbyadeer · 9 months

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thank you for the add on! didnt know they are actually official,, in case you were adressing me personally (lowk flattered) i did end up redoing my commentary tags haha, my thought process is that comics have progressed quite a bit from their conception to now and are taking themselves a lot more seriously... which is something i think majority of comic fans on tumblr actually like because the focus is on actually expanding these characters into multi-faceted ones with good and bad aspects and (imo) WFA takes away from that a bit.... i rlly like WFA as a pick me up actually and i think silly comics can act as a sort of filler-episode-adjacent force in comics but not all the time, ykno?

honestly? most of comic tumblr shits on the mcu in part for them incorporating a lot of silly scenes into their movies and all comic tumblr would do is complain if comics suddenly became 100% silly again, haha..

BTW!!! this isnt meant as a slight or diss or anything!!, im just very interested in this whole conversation (quite literally shaking with excitement to talk abt it lool)

sorry if this is invasive in any way!

No no problem at all!! Yes I was responding to you at the beginning of that haha and I do agree that, while I love WFA, it's not great as like a main content intake for Batman or superheroes in general, definitely more for filler-episode material. When it first came out I was really excited to see it since in the comics they'd just killed Alfred (bad choice) and in movies they're... still learning how to portray Batman lmao, but I hope it being so popular will allow Batman movies to become at least closer to what we see in the comics!

I also agree that it is a good thing that comics grew into taking themselves seriously!! Knightfall is one of my favorite comics ever I can't even count how many times I've read it, and things like The Killing Joke will always be so iconic for a reason. But my favorite parts of those stories are still the characters relationships with each other and how they're being affected (when Bruce tucks the lock of hair behind Babs' ear when she wakes up in the hospital AAHH I cry every time). Comics have definitely found a good balance of serious and lighthearted that I think superhero movies are still searching for, Hollywood kind of realized all at once that superhero stories are worth being taken seriously but then they sort of tipped the scales too far in the other direction, you know? There's very little place for that fun rompiness and they go pretty far out of their way to try and make things "realistic" which is pretty silly to try and do to superheroes of all things haha

BTAS, STAS and Young Justice will probably always be my favorite superhero shows because they managed to achieve the same balance we see in comics themselves! I just have my fingers crossed Hollywood will learn to let heroes have some fun again too

Thank you so much for this ask I also really love discussing this!! I'm glad you didn't think I was attacking you because I really really wasn't trying to

#dc #dc comics #mcu #batman #superman

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taggingtim · 3 years

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Why I love Pre-Boot Tim Drake and why the Reboot has ruined him

I love Tim Drake. He is my favorite comic book character of all time. I’ve been really upset the past few days about what DC has been doing with him lately, and I thought it would be cathartic for me to write something up about it. (No, this isn’t a rant about Tim being bi/gay; it’s a much larger problem than that. But I’ll get to that in a bit.) Bear with me for a bit of history, first.

When I was a kid I loved the Batman Animated Series. I know this will lose me a lot of internet cred, but I always preferred the fourth season. In particular, I loved Tim Drake. He was fun and funny and I absolutely adored him. I used to beg my mom to take me to the mall so I could buy issues of Gotham Adventures. For my birthday one year my parents got me a subscription to the comic, and I was blown away by the idea that I could have comics MAILED to my HOUSE.

Around middle school I started collecting Marvel comics, mostly X-men stuff. I loved them, but when I started college I quit the hobby for financial reasons.

Fast forward a few years, and I felt I was financially stable enough to start buying comics again. Rather than going back to Marvel, I decided to give Batman comics a chance. I had no idea where to start, and when I found out my beloved Tim had his own comic series, I thought it was a perfect entry point into the Batman universe. I bought the complete series from a local comic shop and dove in.

Tim’s Robin series was exactly what I was looking for in a comic. He was very different from little Timmy Todd from BtAS, but I loved him. I built the rest of my comic collection around him, grabbing up every book that he was featured in, from Young Justice to Teen Titans to Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, Red Robin, and many others. I have random books from series like The Demon just because Tim was in them.

So why did I like Tim so much? What about this character made me so excited for more? I found in Tim something that I had never seen in a comic book before: character growth. Somehow, though he was written by many different authors over many different years, Tim managed to have a character arc that is consistent and makes sense. Sure, there were a few small bumps along the way, but on the whole Tim has always stayed true to his character, and he’s developed in a way that the big name characters, like Batman, never can.

When we’re first introduced to Tim, he’s a young teen who has been neglected by his parents growing up. He’s smart, healthy, and strong, but he lacks so much self confidence and has little sense of self worth. Tim notices Bruce’s increasing violence as he grieves for the loss of his son, and Tim knows he needs to step in and help. Batman needs a Robin.

For most characters, this would be the part where Tim put himself forward for the job. But he doesn’t. He seeks out Dick Grayson and begs him to come home instead. It’s only when Batman and Nightwing are in danger and there is literally no one else to help that Tim steps up and dons the cape. And once he does, he’s constantly plagued by self-doubt, terrified he will screw up and leave Batman worse than ever before.

From there, Tim undergoes intense training. He never begs to be in the spotlight, doesn’t push to go out on the streets before he’s ready. His goal is to help Bruce as much as possible.

Here’s where I started to fall in love with him. All that self-doubt, the constant need to be useful? That’s exactly what you would expect to see from a child whose parents had ignored and neglected him. He finally has a parental figure who sees him, who values him, and Tim does everything he can to make himself worthy in the hopes that Bruce will keep him around.

This is the first example of character consistency that we see with Tim. And it continues. When his mom dies and his dad is put in a coma, you see Tim struggle to come to terms with losing the people he loves, but never had a relationship with. Tim almost never mentions his mom after her death, because she just wasn’t present in his life. When his dad recovers and decides to stick around, Tim struggles to build a relationship with him. He’s plagued with guilt because he’s finally found the father figure he needed in Bruce, but he thinks that he’s supposed to feel that way for Jack. It’s a running undercurrent in their relationship that creates distance between them for years.

This is already so long, so I’m going to try to summarize a bit more. We get to watch Tim grow up. We see his awkward relationship with his first girlfriend, Ariana. He doesn’t know how to treat her; he’s never had the opportunity to observe a healthy relationship. But he tries so, so hard. All of Tim’s relationships are awkward, because he’s never had a model of a good one. Steph is a great match for him, because she’s very vocal about what she wants and needs, and she isn’t afraid to call Tim out when he messes up, which is exactly what Tim needs.

Big things happen to Tim. He’s stuck with Jean-Paul Valley, who slowly goes insane, leaving Tim to try to keep the city in one piece. He’s infected with the Clench, a plague that sweeps over Gotham and kills everyone it touches, and barely escapes with his life. His girlfriend is sexually assaulted, leaving him to deal with the fallout. His family moves out of Gotham, and he has to sneak back in during No Man’s Land to help. His relationship with his dad has intense ups and downs, resulting in him being sent to boarding school, punished in a variety of ways, and generally caused a lot of trouble in his life.

Then people start dying. Over the course of about a year in his life, Tim loses his girlfriend, his dad, a close friend, and his best friend, each of whom dies under tragic conditions. Tim’s grief is intense, and he is understandably traumatized by the losses. We see fundamental changes in his character. He changes his costume from something bright and cheerful to something darker that reflects his emotional state. He’s more subdued, his adventures a little more serious.

When Bruce first tries to adopt him, Tim literally creates an uncle and hires an actor to play him, just to avoid dealing with the situation. Bruce has viewed Tim as a son for years, so to him the adoption is an obvious step. For Tim, it feels like a betrayal of his father, and it takes a while before he’s ready to accept Bruce’s love, home, and a place in his family.

When Damian shows up on the scene, Tim really struggles with him, and not just because early Damian is a horrid brat who tries to kill Tim on multiple occasions. Tim has always felt the need to earn his place with Bruce, and Damian constantly throws all of Tim’s biggest fears in his face—he’s not wanted or needed now that the “real” son is here, he’s not worthy of a place in the family, he’s not good enough.

Tim tries to clone Conner, his best friend. He’s lost so many people, and he’s desperate to get them back. Conner was cloned to begin with and fully matured over a very short period of time; the technology clearly exists, so why can’t Tim use it to get his best friend back? And if he can get Conner back, why not the others he’s lost? He eventually gives up, but when he eventually gets access to a Lazarus Pit, he immediately wants to incorporate the waters into his process so he can revive his loved ones. With Dick’s help, Tim eventually decides to let it go, but it’s such a poignant moment for the character.

Then Bruce dies, and Dick takes Robin away. Tim switches to the Red Robin persona as he travels the world, alone, trying to prove that he was right. He has to deal with the trauma of losing another father, finds out that his girlfriend never died but let him hurt so much for so long. His brother and the only close friend he has left both think his grief has overwhelmed his sense and that he’s gone crazy. He’s utterly alone.

The Red Robin series is such a great culmination for Tim. He finds a place for himself as a hero, as a CEO. He gets parts of his family back—Bruce, Steph, Bart, Conner. He finally figures out who he wants to be and creates a place for himself.

This overarching character development is what I love about Tim. His many, many traumas impact his decisions, and you can clearly see how he changes over time as a result of them. I didn’t even go into his development as a leader from his early fumbling with Young Justice to his strong leadership of the Teen Titans, or how his relationships with Conner, Bart, and Cassie develop so fluidly and realistically over the years.

This is why I love Tim. Characters like Batman are static; nothing that happens to them will ever have a lasting impact, because in the end the character always returns to what they were. Tim, on the other hand, has changed and developed A LOT since his initial appearance. His growth has always been consistent and logical.

When the reboot happened, all of that character growth was lost. Tim was replaced with a jerk who betrayed his friends and cheated on his girlfriend. DC has basically retconned all of this and tried to turn Tim back into who he was, but by taking away all of the things that have happened to him over the years, Tim has lost SO MUCH.

I keep looking for my Tim in recent comics, and I just can’t find him. It breaks my heart, because I love him so much, and it feels like he’s lost to me forever. The most recent Young Justice comic series actually gave me hope; I felt like maybe, finally, someone was going to write Tim correctly. He had his primary friendships back, his relationship with Steph was developing (even if they seem to have completely dropped all the development around Steph’s decision to let Tim think she was dead). The actual book itself wasn’t fantastic, but it felt like they were headed in the right direction.

Over the last few days, I read the Batman: Urban Legends books. I actually read the Batman/Red Hood story first, which was fantastic. I was really excited to read Tim’s story (though I already knew how it ended). Jason’s character was handled so well, and he seemed to actually have some character development that will hopefully last. I anticipated the same for Tim.

But Tim’s story was awful. The plot was all over the place—kids are being kidnapped, so Tim has to join a pain cult to get them back? He’s somehow helping Oracle with computer issues while simultaneously questioning witnesses? He’s broken up with Steph, off camera, shortly after telling her how much he loves her, but Steph somehow thinks that they should have a caring relationship where Tim tells her what he’s feeling? Bernard has somehow become a good enough fighter to stand side by side with Robin? Tim STILL doesn’t have a code name? Why is everyone suddenly hounding him about what he wants to do with his life?

It’s just such a mess of a story. If it didn’t end with Tim agreeing to go on a date with Bernard, no one would ever have even mentioned it. There’s nothing particularly re-readable or enjoyable about it.

I actually liked that they brought Bernard back. I really enjoyed him in the original Robin series. It’s been a while since I read that part of the series (I’m actually working my way back through it now). I know Bernard always read as gay to me, yet somehow I felt like he was out of character in these books.

And then, the climax of the story. Tim is bi, or gay, or has at least agreed to go on a date with a boy.

If this had happened in the pre-boot, when Tim was Red Robin and had an actual character arc, I honestly wouldn’t have had an issue with it. I do think it would have needed a LOT more build up than it was given here. Tim has always been a very introspective character, and we’ve been party to so much of his internal monologue over the years. It seems very strange to me that such a huge thing just sneaks up on him out of nowhere when he’s never even thought about it before.

But more than that, this story just feels like the final death blow for the Tim I loved. The whole arc is about how Tim doesn’t know who he is or who he wants to be. What will his hero name be? Will he go to college? What is he going to do with his life? These are all great questions, and his answer to all of them is… date a boy?

Is this going to be his defining characteristic going forward? From here will we just see Tim exploring and discovering his sexuality? The Tim we have now doesn’t have a family, a team, a purpose, or even a code name. Why was this the thing that DC decided to give us? It feels like they wanted to make a gay Robin and decided it would be Tim because they didn’t know what else to do with him.

It’s stupid, but I honestly feel like I’ve spent the past few days grieving the loss of a loved one. The Tim that DC is presenting now is just not the person that I knew. Tim would never break up with Steph that abruptly for what he admits is no apparent reason. He would never say “just call me Robin, since Damian’s out of town.” Everything that I love about Tim seems to be gone, and in its place DC has given me a date with a boy.

Again, it’s not Tim being not-straight that I have an issue with. I’ve never read the character that way, but it’s something I can live with. My issue is the way it was handled. Why not make Tim an actual person first, and then explore his sexuality? Send him off to college! He’s obviously thinking about it! It’s the perfect opportunity to give him his own book. He can move to a different city, choose a new name, and DC can introduce a whole new set of characters. Figure out which parts of Tim’s backstory are still canon, and which have been dropped. Make him a person again, and then let him explore his sexuality.

I know this post is all over the place, and I don’t have time right now to go back and edit it. I just really needed an outlet for my frustration. Right now it feels like there are so many people who are so excited about Tim being bi/gay, but they don’t know anything else about him. I keep seeing people comment how DC has been “dropping hints for years!” with no evidence other than “he and Superboy were really close!” I guess I’d just really like to have some dialogue with other people who are fans of Tim, rather than fans of Tim-as-bi/gay or fans of Tim-as-straight.

Does anyone else feel this way? I’d honestly like to have a dialogue about it with other long time fans.

#Tim Drake #Red Robin #this is a long one #pre-boot vs reboot #this formatting is a little weird #Batman: Urban Legends 6 #Batman: Urban Legends 5 #Batman: Urban Legends 4

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marisandini-chu-blog · 3 years

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Bruce Wayne is a Simp for Bad Bitch

OmG I can’t believe I’m writing the obvious but the idea is in my head and I need a place to word vomit.

Okay, so it occurred to me that Bruce has a more serious and intense relationship canonically with three women, as far as I know; Andrea Beaumont, Talia Al’ghul, and Selina Kyle. All of whom are the epitome of Bad Bitch with the capital B. (Yes, I’m ignoring Rachel Dawes from Nolanverse. The only thing I like about it is the Iconic Joker. No batman movie is good enough without the Batfam.)

Why do I raise this point, you might ask? Well, that’s because I want to rant that Bruce, my boy, my man, my childhood comfort character is actually a SIMP?!?!

Like... I’m just... urgh.... okay... I am very vocal for a healthy relationship with commitment and based on mutual love and respect. So the fact that Bruce has only bad, iffy, or casual relationships really want to tear my hair out. And why my heart don’t want to ship with any of them, even though BatCat is one of my favorite pairing!

I am a WonderBat shipper because I love watching them in JLAU as a kid and even though I’m not slash shipper unless it’s canon, SuperBat made much more sense to me. Heck even a threesome with the Trinity would have been healthier relationship rather than whatever Bruce had with the three of them and here’s why:

You might not have heard of Andrea, but she’s canon from the Timmverse movie called Batman and the Mask of Phantasm which is A REALLY GREAT MOVIE. Totally recommend. One of the best Batman movie at all times (Yes, I say Batman movies not Batman Animated movies). Has great plot twist and good pacing. so Spoiler Alert! Andrea was Bruce’s fiancé, making her possibly Bruce’s first love, before his journey and possibly could have stop him from becoming Batman (I would say he’s a simp in this case, but he would have had a much more happier, healthy household so it’s not bad thing) if she hadn’t disappear for being a Mob Boss’ Daughter!!!

I repeat, a mob boss’ daughter.

And she came back only to be a mask avenging assassin that went toe-to-toe with Batman.

And she could have choose to stay with Bruce but she didn’t because she choose vengeance over him. Like.... Bats, you should stop with the “I am Vengeance” routine you’ve got going on because she does it better than you ngl.

So she left and I cried at the end of that movie because trauma wasn’t enough, you put heartbreak after heartbreak to my boy. Thanks DC.

Then there’s Fucking Talia Al’ghul which is a no brainer why she’s not Bad but BAD. Like, Talia groom Jason, supervise Damian’s harsh, brutal, and abusive training, control Damian through the implant spine to kill Dick, orders Damian execution before regretting it, DRUG BRUCE when CONCEIVING DAMIAN!!! And that’s only the top of my head.

And if you want to blame it on Morrison’s writing, THAT’S FINE. We’ve bitched about Tom King’s writing enough to know it’s valid.

But, BUT, bUt... it needs to be address that even before Morrison, Talia CHOOSE to stay in the League of Assassin. People can tell me that she’s a complex character that’s loyal to her father but love Bruce and that her upbringing makes her complicated or whatever. Nuh-uh. You don’t get to make Talia helpless when it suited you. Talia is a fucking Bad Bitch (TM). She’s been taught to do whatever the fuck she wants according to her belief and ideal. At some point, Talia knew she wanted to be in position of power in the League rather than staying with Bruce.

But it’s canon that Talia, if I remember correctly, doesn’t like Gotham or Bruce’s mission. She thinks being a hero is beneath them or whatever. And doesn’t understand why Gotham is special to Bruce. So yeah, you might not agree how Morrisons write her. But do not fucking tell me she’s not a character who will not be willing to do what she thinks it’s necessary to get what she wants, including training her son as an assassin. I mean, she likes being the Demon’s Daughter in the league. She may not agree with her father but Talia wants to give Damien what she wants. Power.

Talia loves Bruce. That’s a fact. He’s probably the only person that makes her feel like she’s a person instead of the Demon’s Daughter. Bruce has a knack for that. To make people want to be better, even just a little. Talia could have chosen him, if she wanted to. The fact that she helps him so much when fighting against her father numerous times is proof enough.

I'm highly suspecting the reason she stays is because she knows Bruce would always forgive her (SIMP ALERT) unlike her father who would straight up stab her if she ever betrays him.

I’m not saying there’s no love for her son, I’m just saying if she even looks at the batfam funny than I will raise my flamethrower on that bitch’s face. Because you can’t rely on Bruce on that. That man would give bullshit excuse for her or want to handle her himself because your “history” with her makes you entitled.

Aaaah, don’t you just love it when there’s a great villain you can hate on so much?

I'm not saying she can't be a good person. Pre-morisson made Talia more of an anti-hero. But I do like Talia "I'mma cut a bitch" al'ghul. It's just... I like ruthless Bad Bitch like her. Though preferably she could have balance it with more of her maternal side through Damian.

Okay, I’m getting off tangent. Now comes to my favorite girl. Catwoman. Selina Kyle. The famous ship of all Bruce’s relationship sans SuperBat.

I... am conflicted the most about this.

See, Selina is one of the few people who understands Bruce. Who was there when he needed a shoulder to rely on. Someone who doesn’t take Bruce’s shit, and one of the constant person in Bruce’s life.

But not... constant enough. Which is a theme of her, even in her fursona... I, I mean PERSONA, PERSONA!!!

Anyway, I love seeing these two broken people. One handles it with violence and vigilantism, the other through thieving with a Robinhood-esque thing going on. So of course they get each other. It always helps that they try to make each other better. Selina taught Bruce to be okay of being selfish of wanting to be happy, and Bruce believed there’s good in her that makes her feel she’s not a hopeless case, y’know? It’s even canon that in one universe, they’re married and have daughter, Helena Wayne. So... yeah? Happy end! (Until they died but that’s non issue here at the moment.)

Then Tom King (Urgh, him again) wrote Bat proposing to Cat, and by the time they’re about to be married. Selina left him at the altar.

So yeah.

But then they get metaphysically? Figuratively? married after the Flashpoint which they turn Thomas Wayne into a villain (At least make him from alternate universe instead of timeline!!!) and kill Alfred (WhYYYYYY?! Bruce suffered enough why do you go kill both his fathers dammit!!! Let the goddamn butler rest in peace). And basically Selina and Bruce promise each other forever. Which is sweet. BatCat Forever, am I right???

Yeah, here’s the problem. (And I’m just nitpicking here, okay). For all Tom King’s character assassination of Bruce, he did Selina right in one thing. Which is the fact she doesn’t like being tied down by anything.

If Talia puts importance in power. Selina puts importance in freedom and her self-independence.

I remember as a kid watching BTAS, that Selina didn’t want a relationship with batman if it meant changing who she is. So when Selina left the altar, I wasn’t surprise at the news. Then she actually agreed to marry him, only this time, she didn’t need a judge or a paper to make the marriage legit, y’know. And I thought, yeah that’s so her.

But the thing is Bruce. Accepts. Her. Every. Single. Time.

Without a single thought. She asked, “Do you still want to get married?” and he asked “When?”

Even though it’s not the first that Cat leaves him hanging.

Tell me he’s not a simp for that.

It’s great that he accepts her for everything she is. But I’m conflicted because Selina stays static. She stays with the cat theme in the fact she doesn’t want to held back by anything. She takes what she wants. She loves who she loves. And no one was gonna change her. But then where’s the character growth?

Is it regressive of me to think Selina should be ‘tied down’ or express commitment when she never has been tied down before even though she loves Bruce?

Is it not-feminist of me to think Selina has to change herself for a man?

I just don’t like the fact Bruce and Selina enables their masked persona. Their relationship is strongly base on their cat-and-mouse chase. They nicknamed each other “Bat” and “Cat” for God’s sake. Even though yes, it’s canon that “Batman” and “Catwoman” is their real selves and their civilian life is their masks. Heck, she didn’t go for the altar because she believed (though manipulated) that making Bruce happy would make Batman insufficient, or losing him entirely (Thank Tom King for that).

That would be true, and stay true if not for one thing. Which is some thing what Bruce has that Selina doesn’t:

The Batfam.

Bruce’s real identity isn’t just the Batman anymore. He has to be a single father with growing children he never plan to adopt but did anyway because they needed each other. He can’t use his batman persona to be a father at his house, but he will when training them to be his partner. His family became the strength to Bruce’s fight for Justice.

Bruce is the Batman, but he’s not everything who he is. Selina is supposed to be part of the batfamily yet sadly, I haven’t read or watch anything that has her interact with them in a positive way or actually bond with them. Heck, when Alfred inform the proposal to the batfam they were shocked and thought it was a bad idea even (And they’ve known her for almost half their life by the way.)

The fact that Tom King implied Bruce was never happy or wasn’t happy enough without marrying Cat when his Batfam should be the source of his pride and joy?! Apparently family means nothing to Batman. Woah DC, what a great message you’re sending here.

I guess that’s why, I was a bit iffy when Selina “marriage” with Bruce isn’t official. Because she commits to the man but she doesn’t say she’ll commit to the family (though I suppose it could be imply or I just forget stuff). The batkids are grown up enough that they don’t really need a maternal figure, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need more emotionally available people in the family. And that I haven’t seen much of her taking effort to bond with the people that’s the most important to Bruce.

It just makes her want to commit to Batman instead of Bruce Wayne, in my eyes I guess.

So yeah, that’s why Wonderbat and Superbat makes more sense to me. Because they’ll make an effort to be THERE for the family and they’ll be just generally be a healthier relationships because, again, emotionally available so they might talk when they have a problem instead of running off the altar when you think a Happy Batman is Bad Batman. But no, DC have to make Bruce is a simp and his life edgy.

Anyway, I might be wrong in some things because, you know. Canon becomes a blur to me after a while.

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emeralddarkness · 3 years

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Hope you’re having an awesome day! 💖💖💖

Who is your favourite Batman, Joker, and Batman villain in general?

oh dang this is such a big ask. uh. UM.

Well for the cheap, easy answer - my favorite version for almost anything DC period is the version you find in the DC Animated Universe (which is a separate continuity for most of the 90s DC cartoons, not everything animated and dc), they just nailed distilling the characters down to their essence and then did a super good job with that essence. Batman and the Joker are two of the characters that they did absolutely nail in DCAU - Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are the Definitive Batman and Joker and like that's just the tea. These are the guys I'd point to if you asked who the character was. But a favorite is a little harder, because there's so many versions that are just so fun. Adam West's Batman is an absolute riot to watch, itty bitty Bruce from the tv show Gotham is just as Dramatic as he should be, the comics (with the right writer) can be so subtle and caring and good, Lego Batman is such a ridiculous and loving parody of what Batman turns into when he's not in the right hands, i just. I really love Batman.

And shout out to my boi Terry McGinnis who might be the real answer for favorite, if I have to choose a favorite. I really really love Bruce but I also really really love Terry, who shines so bright even in the shadows.

I'm not really a Joker fangirl or anything like he's, ya know, fine and all, but often times he seems to trend in the direction of 3 edgy 5 me. I do think that the Tim!Joker from Return of the Joker was a really fascinating cool rendition. I also actually decided I really kinda dug the DCEU version with the tattoos and the grill in Suicide Squad, Leto's Joker, even though I super didn't care for him the first time I saw the movie. He was too bizarre, and deliberately bizarre - too many things that seemed to be there for people to look at and go 'oh how crazy, no normal person would have 'damaged' tattooed on their forehead, nobody would lay out spirals of knives and guns and baby clothes and dress their henchmen in panda costumes, this is all performative, since when has the Joker had being visibly crazy as part of the schtick he doesn't need to try to sell it is just sort of is.' Then things kind of clicked into place and my perspective shifted to yeah that's the point, that's what this version of the Joker is doing - it's freaking madness and crime as performance art, he does all these things to make people look at him and say 'wow he's crazy and that makes no sense' that's the point, and all that was confirmed for me in one of the extended cut's scenes where Harley confronts Joker and he explains that he's not someone you love, he's an idea.

so anyway that was super cool once I started looking at it that way, and suddenly it turned from an over the top and kind of dumb rendition into a guy who's lost track of when to stop acting and that's the madness here, that all the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players, Harley is half act and half audience. It made it unique and interesting in a way that wasn't a sliding scale to innocent trickster to psycopathic maniac who wears clown makeup, it was a new way to make him crazy and i am On Board after all that.

As to my favorite villain.... I dunno man. I don't necessarily dislike any, off the top of my head, but I'm less invested in the villains generally than I am in the heroes. Red Hood Prodigal Son Jason makes for some really interesting stuff with the dynamic of having been a member of batfam and kind of also still being a member of batfam but also he's not because he kills people now. Harley Quinn can be a ton of fun when she's done well, but she can also be turned into a sex bunny in a clown suit when she's not. Mr Freeze got a backstory makeover in btas that turned him super interesting and compelling after that. Catwoman is a lot of fun by herself, even if I do think that Batman/Catwoman as a relationship can tend towards slightly boring because all it ever is is trying to tempt each other over the line that they're always flirting with as a matter of habit just in general. Hush is interesting in a dark mirror kind of way (but not hush beyond oh my gosh that entire mini was so freakin dumb). I think the real favorite villain is the entirely cheater answer of Batman himself - like look at Tower of Babel. But in the end probably the real answer is that it kind of depends on how well they're being written. Basically all of them can be compelling, but if I was gonna buy a figurine and I had a choice of a batman villain or a batman hero i'd probably choose the hero.

#batman #dc #asks #whoops this got really long #i am one of 3 people who really likes the suicide squad movie #but you know what IT'S A FUN MOVIE

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neko-shinigxmi · 3 years

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HARLEY!! Tell me what u LOVE abt Harley pls also how did you feel about birds of prey

(I fully recognize that this ask references BoP, but this is my favorite Harley moment and I WILL be using it, since it’s been gif’d!!!!)

ANYWAYS, you ever look at a complicated, codependent mess and go, “Yes. Yes, I want that one!” Because that was basically me with Harley. She’s a mess of a person, fully excited and accepting of her lifestyle (because it’s everything her old life wasn’t and gave her an opportunity to be more; pry that from my cold, dead hands, DC), very chaotic, and a ton of fun??

I could go on about her for hours, tbh. I remember watching BtAS, but it was all kinda vague in my head. I didn’t really get a chance to reappreciate Harl until my dad was playing Arkham City (downloading her DLC and letting me watch some of his gameplay) that I got into her again. And from there, it was a ton of research, two RP accounts/blogs, cosplay plans (and a few, casual cosplays!), and pleeeenty of lowkey selfshipping. Cause I’d still be figuring out I’m Not That Straight at the time, LMAO.

But yes, like!!!! Her free nature! Occasional bluntness! (The gif above comes from Harley’s Holiday, where- just earlier from that scene- she openly admitted to Bruce’s pal that the duo had met before; Harley was the clown girl holding the gun on her!!! :D Smiles and all; oh, but don’t worry! She’s been deemed sane by Arkham, so they’re all good! .....Proceeds to snap into the above gif due to misunderstandings and distrust of police/security.) HOW CUTE SHE IS!!! The fashion. Seriously, lovely lady has such fun fashion sense and I do HC she makes and repairs all her costumes.

Also..... The babies. Oh. My gosh. I love those hyenas as much as Harley herself does. I ended up doing a bunch of spotted hyena research for Bud and Lou, too! (I also ended up becoming a huge fan of “Who’s on First”, so that helped some things, LMAO.)

ANYWAYS, I have no direction and just blabbing about everything so--

Birds of Prey: Good. I’m conflicted on the n52 era of “Harley is becoming anti-hero” because while I’ve always said Harley matches her personality to those she is codependent on (in the past, I’ve said I could see her being redeemed alone by associating w/ someone who has heroic traits and her emulating them in order to appease them), it feels.....weird now. I can’t explain it. (Except in stuff like the current animated series, which I am VERY against for a variety of reasons.)

HOWEVER, I LOVE MARGOT ROBBIE!!!!! She is DELIGHTFUL as Harley, I love how she portrays Harley, and BoP was overall a DELIGHT because I was honestly just here for Harl and her lovely chaos. (Also, the choppy, short pigtails were really cute.....!)

#queenieboo22 #Aki answers #I need to double check if I made a ship tag for us yet #if not.....DC Edition OTP tags WAHOO #THANKS FOR THE AAAASSSKK #I love Harley sm #she's currently my Discord icon and I'm using her blog again #doing RPs and art again!!!! MY INSPIRATION I LOVE YOU SO

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darkwingsnark · 5 years

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Question; What is your favorite version of the rogues/batfam out of BTAS, TB, Live-Action stuff, etc?

Oh man, that’s a loaded question my friend. Are you sure you’re ready for this? Are you sure you want me to unleash this?

To start off, I’m actually a fan of many different interpretations. I tend to feel most versions I end up enjoying have their place. Sometimes you want one flavor over another, ya feel me? You can’t always eat the same thing for dessert, even if you enjoy it immensely.

Batman/Bruce Wayne

Animated wise, both BTAS and Batman: Brave and the Bold would win out. I appreciate how caring BTAS Batman is, as I feel like I prefer to see a version of the character that genuinely wants to help his rogues and the people of Gotham. It may be tied back into his own pain, but he has the ability to use this pain to empathize.

BBATB, however, gets so many points for literally being the funniest. I kind of love his cheesy dialog and the harshness he deals everyone? This is one of the few shows that I don’t feel like the villains overpower him, writing wise, but I literally just want to see Batman interact with all the different heroes. (Plastic-Man and Aquaman being my favorite, but I got to say… also enjoyed the Batman/Joker team up.)

Live action… I really liked Micheal Keaton. While I think he doesn’t make a very convincing Bruce Wayne, he is one of the few actors that I feel like when I look at him… Yes, I am convinced this is somebody who would don the suit. I feel like most of the time Batman is cast with people thinking who would make a handsome looking Bruce Wayne, and then they don’t fill the role of Batman really well. So while I suppose nobody I’ve seen so far has quite fit the duality of the character– outside of Batman 66′ utilizing Adam West in their more comedic style adventures– I do think Micheal Keaton is my favorite.

Joker

You put me in a spot, my dude! Because I got four, count ‘em, FOUR animated versions I really enjoy.

I’m going to surprise you by saying BBATB Joker is my top tier favorite of the four. I know, I know– he’s nowhere near violent as the other two on my list. …Well, except for the fact he actually did get away with killing. Many times. As a montage. It was GREAT! Getting off track though, I just really love his MOOD. The fact every moment he’s on screen he’s just having a great time. And he’s so willing to work with people, just as much as he’s ready to throw you under the bus. There is something so charming about the fact he’s sit next to his fellow villain to cheer them up, just as much as he’ll trip them. It makes him into a real wild card!

If I want a serious portrayal, I usually for for BTAS though. This is a guy you get swept up into enjoy watching, that you completely forget after a while that he’s using you. And then it stops being funny, your usefulness has ended, and then he’s pushing you out a window.

….So let me tell you about The Batman. Look, I hated the design of the guy at first too. I remember seeing him and going ‘that’s… that’s not the Joker? Whatcha tryin’ t’pull?’ But then I kept watching, they put him back in a more classic looking suit, and I was SOLD. He is probably the only one of the bunch who constantly has me on edge, making me uncomfortable as I feel like he’s about to invade my personal space at any moment… and by God, I love it. Kevin Micheal Richardson, if you’re out there and reading this… Your vocals are so freaken captivating. Your random southern twang to the character’s dialog at times was such an out there choice, but man I was on board.

Lastly… C’mon, Lego Joker was cute. Again, not a classic take of the character. Like I wouldn’t believe the acting for any other version. But for THIS version? The version that wants to be in loath with Lego Batman? Who is BFF with his Gal Pal Harley? He was a TREASURE!

Live Action… I want to say Jack Nicholson. As he does well mixing both the gangster and clown aspects of the character together. And for the longest time he was my very definition of live action Joker. But i do think honorable mentions should go to Heath Ledger (who honestly was the only reason I could even watch the Nolanverse Batmans) and Cesar Romero (who’s mustache under his face paint will forever amuse me, and the fact his voice fills me with joy).

Gonna say, comic wise: Batman Europa had a very compelling Joker.

…. This is getting very long. I may have to break this up into parts. So, uh.. end of part one.

Stay tuned next post: same Bat Time, same Bat Blogger!

#snark replies #batman #dc comics #bruce wayne #joker #opinions #gif #long post #going to break this up into parts #also gonna take a quick break because I've been typing for a while #plummyplums

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starspatter · 6 years

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I think you should do ALL THE ASKS :D

WELL ALL RIGHT THENA - Ships that you currently like a lot. (They don’t have to be OTPs because not everyone has OTPs.) Friendships, pairings, threesomes, etc. are allowed.1) DCAU TimSteph2) ItsuHaru3) Logan x Diana Prince4) Itsuki Koizumi x Kyouya OotoriB - A pairing–platonic, romantic or sexual–that you initially didn’t consider, but someone changed your mind.*looks at WonderWolf and SuperBats*C - A ship you have never liked and probably never will.BatCat. Even back when I wasn’t a fan of Batman I remember I read one DCAU comic involving Catwoman, and her character just didn’t appeal to me.D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t.Any Kagepro ships tbh. Idk I’m just not really invested in the romance of the series. I prefer them all as friends/platonic.E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom? If so, what?Ahaha… I’ve contributed a fair bit of Kagecrack through vids/posts, though I think my favorite are these BTAS crossover edits.Also Kyorange and Skitzo!Kyon for TMoHS. (Plus the “genderbent cast is the previous generation” theory if that counts?)F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom?Well I’ve been a Pokémon fan since elementary school. While I no longer watch the show/play the games, I still follow the new generations and RP on occasion.G - Have you ever had an OTP? If so, do you remember your first one? Who was in it?Eeyup. While I don’t ship too often, when I do I ship HARD. ItsuHaru was my first real “obsessive” OTP, but I think the honor for the *very* first ship I had goes to… Cody x Ken from Digimon S2, in a sense. *shot* ^^; Idk I was just really focused on the idea of them making up and becoming “friends”. XP Though I also shipped Ken with Kari too bc of the Dark Ocean stuff. (Also Gary Oak x Molly Hale from Pokémon but that’s a whole other story. >.>; )H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., TV shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)?I’m still mostly a weeb so animu is my go-to, but I’ve been branching out to more Western stuff lately. (Although when it comes to Kagepro the songs are still the best medium. =3=)I - Has Tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why?Steven Universe. While I still love the show, hearing about all the toxicity in the fandom really turned me off so I just try to avoid it.J - Name a fandom you didn’t think about until you saw it all over Tumblr. (You don’t have to care about it or follow it; it just has to be something that Tumblr made you aware of.)Again, Steven Universe. Also Over the Garden Wall and Bojack Horseman (the former of which I still really recommend you see).K - What character has your favorite development arc/the best development arc?I’m also gonna say Sunset Shimmer from Equestria Girls. She went from being a seemingly one-off villain to a fully redeemed good guy and leader in her own right. Though she still has her insecurities, it lets her relate to and help others in the same situation to not let those feelings of inadequacy or jealousy overcome them.Also Midna from Twilight Princess. Her change of heart from servicing her own needs to selfless sacrifice after observing how hard Link tried to save others mirrors my own feelings when I met Link in OoT/MM and watched him grow into a true hero, working to help both the people of Hyrule and Termina even when he had no obligation or was openly blamed for Ganon’s rise to power.L - Say something genuinely nice about a character who isn’t one of your faves. (Characters you’re neutral about are fair game, as are characters you merely dislike. Characters that you absolutely loathe with the fire of ten thousand suns are exempt, as there is no point in giving yourself an aneurysm over a character that you hate.)So I’m not a big fan of Dick Grayson in the DCAU (or any of his animated adaptations aside from Lego Batman; his YJ version being especially egregious) since I see him as rather childish and bad at dealing with conflict, but he’s admittedly a lot better in the tie-in comics, which give him some much needed development as Nightwing (whereas he barely got any screentime in TNBA). There he acts as a genuine big brother to Tim, and is shown to not be as nearly as bitter at Bruce as the Old Wounds ep would have one believe. I also like that they highlight Dick’s fondness for music, wherein his musical knowledge actually comes in handy to solve a couple cases.M - Name a character that you’d like to have for a friend.All of the Mekakushi Dan, SOS Brigade, or Host Club tbhN - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice).1) More Kagepro content in general2) More DCAU TimSteph 3) More ItsuHaru

O - Choose a song at random. Which ship or character does it remind you of?Growing Up - Run River NorthDefinitely a Timmy Todd/TimSteph song now that I think about it. Especially the lines “I found my way without your help, with a broken family” and “monsters in my head”. ;(P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas).…Tbh I’m really liking the “Legion x Ouran” idea lately. XD *shot*Q - A fandom you’ve abandoned and why.Hm… I don’t think there are any I’ve really “abandoned”, per se. Most of them are still there, just not at the forefront anymore.R - Which friendship/platonic relationship is your favorite in fandom?All the relationships in Kagepro *shot*S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged)Molly Hale from the third movie is the god of the Pokémon world. Just… don’t ask lol.T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending?Already answered, but I’ll add a few of my favorites for DCAU TimSteph:1) Tim cuts his own hair after RotJ (or rather just lets it grow long) since he doesn’t trust anyone else with sharp objects around him. Steph is the first person he allows to trim his hair for him (even though she has no experience with it either), since I imagine him feeling comfortable enough around her that he even falls asleep like Sousuke does with Chidori in Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid. (For context, he was raised as a soldier from an early age and this is what happened when they tried to take him to a salon. Played for laughs, but probably an accurate portrayal of people suffering from anxiety/PTSD having to deal with mundane tasks that trigger them.)

2) Similarly, Steph plays piano to help calm Tim down whenever he’s having a panic attack.3) After RotJ Tim refuses to wear red for a long time until Steph knits him a red scarf and tells him it “suits him” bc red is the color of heroes.

As an aside, I also recently like the idea that Logan was at Lex’s party in the DCEU and saw Bruce and Diana together, based on this playlist that I made. U - Three favorite characters from three different fandoms, and why they’re your favorites.Gonna talk about a few I don’t mention too often nowadays.

1) Link from The Legend of ZeldaLink will forever be my greatest true love. He’s the first real “hero” I believed in, and he honestly changed my life at one point to actually want to be a better person. While that faith has faded and I don’t think I can ever reach his example, I still wish I had that kind of courage and kindness - or at least be able to inspire others in the same way he did me.2) Meroko Yui from Full Moon wo SagashiteIf Link was the first (and only) person I ever truly fell in love with, Meroko was the one who taught me what “true love” was in the first place. I won’t say too much since I still sincerely hope you will check out the series someday, but suffice to say there’s a scene towards the end where she makes a choice that shows how much she has personally grown, and come to understand what it really means to “love” someone wholeheartedly.

3) Gary Oak from PokémonThis is a bit of an odd one, but Gary is a character I related to a lot when I was an adolescent since, of the main series cast, he was the first and one of few to really change his “status quo” by quitting training and deciding to become a researcher instead. In my eyes it seemed like a shockingly conscious choice to “grow up” in a world where you can ostensibly remain a “child” forever, and I both admired and deplored him for it (especially at that tender transitory age I was going through at the time, where it feels like you’re being forced to “become an adult” whether you want to or not).

V - Which character do you relate to most?Already answered.W - A trope which you are virtually certain to hate in any fandom.Romance in general is really not my thing, so I dislike when it’s the focus/the writers feel the need to pair every character. I’d rather leave things open-ended most of the time.X - A trope which you are almost certain to love in any fandom.Family/friendship stories + tragic adopted children wanting to be heroesY - What are your secondhand fandoms (i.e., fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)?X-Men, Kingdom Hearts, Dangan Ronpa, Fate/Stay Night, Various Magical Girl series, Various RPG Horror games

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go! (Prompts optional but encouraged.)I feel like I’ve rambled enough already phew. OTL Thanks for asking though. =P

#cryptoriawebb #starspeaks

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