#angband stuff

[fuckingfinwions]

Dark Maedhros anon here, your reply was great and made me feel even worse for poor Finno. Asking him questions during the council is such a nice touch. Mae is having too much fun. I actually imagined Finno's 'throne' has kind of a pedal, which Mae forces him to press and Finno realizes with horror that the dildo moves. Mae orders him to keep doing it until he's literally unable to move from pain and exhaustion. (1/2)

(2/2) Mae nurses Finno back to health. He's very careful and gentle with him and Finno starts hoping again, but as soon as Mae deems him recovered enough, he brings out the chair. Finno begs him not to do it, offers anything else but that, apologizes for calling himself a prince but Mae forces him on it and pedals it himself until Finno goes hoarse from screaming (and comes a couple of times). Then he takes him to a council and has his soldiers pedal it for the entire duration of the council.

(Sorry for the very late response! This is follow up to a previous ask)

Ooh, I like the pedal! Fingon is forced to fuck himself in public, and he can last longer is it's moving just a pedal rather than lifting himself off the throne. Also the length the dildo moves in and out is the same on every stroke, there's nothing Fingon can do to keep himself adjusted. And with his arms tied to the throne, he's utterly trapped.

And then, after Fingon is humiliated once, he has that glimmer of hope when Maedhros nurses him back to health. Only to have it crushed when Maedhros becomes cruel again.

I love the idea of Maedhros pedaling it himself at first. He's not actually bothering to touch Fingon while tormenting him, but Maedhros isn't totally impersonal either. He can tap his foot faster or slower and watch Fingon's reactions to the giant dildo pounding inside him. Maybe Maedhros starts out slow, and every time Fingon stops reacting as much speeds up, just to force another scream out of him. By the time Maedhros is done, Fingon is barely able to keep himself upright.

And then Maedhros goes to his council meeting, and has Fingon brought along as well. I like the idea of Maedhros not bothering to remove Fingon from the chair, just have servants carry the "throne" with Fingon still seated on it. Every time they stumble, or tilt the chair to get up stairs, on anything else, Fingon feels the giant dildo press up against him differently. But hey, he's already screamed himself hoarse, so he's still quiet for the journey.

Perhaps Fingon assumes he'll merely be displayed this time, utterly humiliated and exhausted and wrecked, but passive. And then Maedhros directs a soldier to step on the pedal.

Long before the council meeting is over, Fingon is too exhausted to hold himself up. He doesn't fall out of the chair though, with his arms tied to the armrests and whole torso held upright by the giant dildo inside him.

#fucking finwions answers #not archived yet #angband stuff

[outofangband]

For the sensory hcs - 6, 14, 17 for maedhros? 👀

From this ask game here

6. Favorite food or flavors?

In Valinor Maedhros’s favorite flavors are savory and salty ones. Fresh bread with salted herbs and olive oil, the meat served at certain ceremonies with the spices burnt from the fire…

At the March, much of his view of food is utilitarian. What is warm and filling and accessible. I’ve written way too much about the effects of Angband on food but I think it loses a lot of its pleasure and enjoyment for Maedhros in the aftermath

I do think he still favors the more savory though

14. A sound they can’t stand

Cacophonous noise agitates him. Throughout Angband, the sounds of the forges, of shifting rock in the mines, the sounds of creatures natural and not, scraping steel, of screams and laughter and commands, of the thousands of processes that go into the running of a fortress on that scale…

And then there is the rushing wind, the call of birds, distant shouting….

There is little that truly mimics that outside the walls of Angband but scatterings of those sounds put Maedhros on edge.

17. What their voice sounds like

I struggle with this as I do not know or understand any of the words to describe voice but I imagine it as fairly even, confident and measured. Post Angband his voice takes a lower, harsher tone, the results of the severe strain on his chest and lungs upon Thangorodrim, years of misuse and disuse, and the exposure to the multitude of harmful substances and conditions within Angband and the Ered Engrin.

He still commands a room or army of course, but the changes to his voice are still stark to those who knew him before.

I hope this is ok, anon! I realized too late that 14 was actually about music, let me know if you want me to come back to that one

#the silmarillion #maedhros #post angband #musing and meta #in the iron hell #couldn’t help but include some Angband World Building stuff

[youareunbearable]

As a fun little thought, yaknow how fanon Maedhros sometimes will have grey in his hair from like the torture and stress? I think it would be SUPER FUN if during the long peace his brothers would sometimes die it different colours. Obvi nothing crazy, but I think it would be cute if sometimes they dyed the grey like yellow/gold to go with his copper hair, or yellow-green in the spring to make it look like he has flowering plants woven in his hair, or black to tease him how the dark colour washes him out

#amber rambles #silmarillion #maedhros #I just think it woul be cute #my sister cant really do stuff with her hair anymore cause she killed it so I let her play with mine sometimes #and so shell dye it or cut it or try new styles and I honestly dont mind and this is just being a Big Sister to let her do this yaknow? #so I think Mae would be the same. yeah whatever this silly little thing brings u joy sure play with my hair #I think he used to be super particular about his hair in Valinor. being the Pretty One yaknow? But after Angband... #I really think he kinda hates how he looks and doesnt see the point in trying anymore with his apperance. He knows its important #for like political reasons but day to day? why bother hes scarred and his bright red hair is half grey now #so I think this is why his brothers care. His hair used to be important to him. so they play with it and dye it and style it FOR him now

[nurantarenendurath]

Scale

Mairon: On a Scale on 1 - 10 how capable do you think I am?

Melkor: Thats a pathetic scale go up to 100 you coward!

Mairon: Is this an insult or a compliment?

Melkor: Yes!

#Angbang #Melkor #Mairon #Angband #ship #otp #Silmarillion #first age #scale #Morgoth #Sauron #Valar #stuff

[laurelnose]

i love “cannibalism as ultimate manifestation of desire & intimacy” as a theme and have been very much enjoying tumblr’s meme fascination with it but i also just realized every time i’ve written cannibalism it’s been about corruption, spiritual violation, moral injury, the crossing of lines which cannot be uncrossed, that sort of thing, desire doesn’t really enter into it at all

also multiple times the consumption has been noncon/forced specifically by a third party rather than by survival/starvation circumstances which. no further comment

#the victim always knows what they’re eating bc ‘cannibal tricks bystanders into eating human flesh’ is a coward’s trope. to me. #(the other ones are back in spn fandom under a different pseud) #(Leviathan was one of my favorite arcs ngl) #(not even to mention my boy king + Eucharist fascination) #(oh! and ‘Mae in Angband’ was always a good time. but i don’t have my Silm stuff posted anywhere) #anyways! hm! maybe i should write cannibalism where somebody is actually enjoying themselves! #laurelnose.txt

[aroace-moron]

Really proud of this little fragment.

#not sure when or if i'll finish this #since I'm still working on that beren & luthien oneshot and all #but sometimes inspiration hits you with a bag of frozen peas and the blood from your nose creates this kind of stuff #i love looking at my stuff and thinking how proud I am of it #it really feels like healing #sauron #mairon #maedhros #angband #elvish names #silmarillion #silm fic #i will change a lot about this #like he says little far too often #and im not sure if i spelled eppessë right because i'm weird and hate research until i actually start doing it #but yeah #silm wip

[that-angry-noldo]

the man must be so done at this point fr

#he's still my blorbo. but the life of a blorbo includes being put into the Horrors™ as if in the washing machine #i am still looking for a way to stuff him in the angband btw #With happy ending and all of that. But Still. The Horrors #finrod #tolkien #this was made at midnight please stop me #/melkor yeeted this from the queue

[captainadwen]

They say books tell you about the writer and its absolutely hilarious to me to realize that naomi novik's standard male romantic lead character is "tall, dark in personality if not looks (or at least serious and grumpy at first meeting), and gothically menacing yet intriguing in a way that is both somewhat frightening yet arousing"

#girl that no one expects much from finds great power in herself and saves the day #her female lead archetype seems to be #very funny ngl #in related news im reading spinning silver and uprootes #i like spinning silver more so far #the one thing i really love about uprooted is the wood #its essentially angband but floral #its got creepy orcs and wolves and thralls and everything #if morgoth corrupted Yavanna’s stuff instead of fire and earth this would be the result etc etc

[undercat-overdog]

"It's ok to kill elves because they respawn" and "death isn't serious for elves" will never not be a hilariously bad argument.

Respawn is hardly guaranteed. At least some individuals (Aegnor, Feanor, Finwe) will not be reborn, at least for the entire lifespan of the planet; death can be permanent. I think the various writings about Mandos and rebirth (plenty of juicy stuff in NoME in particular if you're looking) imply that it's not particularly uncommon for Elves not to return to life.

Mandos isn't a pleasant place to be nor is it where Elves are meant to be. Its name literally means "prison" - the word is related to "Angband" even (the "mandos" and "band" elements are cognate).

Death itself is pretty damn traumatic! Even if I pop back up in 15 minutes like a mob in an mmo, a sword through the gut's not fun.

All evidence suggests that Elves (and Valar) treat death very seriously and don't think it's unimportant. The Elves of Beleriand don't even sing songs about Fingolfin's death because the grief is too much.

For Elves of Middle-earth who are killed, go Mandos, and are reborn in Aman - they are sent somewhere that they may not willingly have chosen to go and can't leave. There's not really a great real world analogue to this (I'm intentionally avoiding the potential closest ones for reasons) but I don't think it's good and removing that choice - through violently murdering someone - is itself a crime.

#thrown together post no quotes sorry #meta #semi-related: i think fandom throws around terms like 'war crime' etc too flippantly at times? #not saying they can't be used #(and can be applicable but the term also has a legal meaning and definition in our world) #and i'm uncomfortable when it's used in casual or humorous contexts

[absynthe--minded]

Hello! Can I respectfully request the promised lecture and Powerpoint about Fingon/Maedhros? I'll be honest here... I just do not see it, and I truly do want to understand. There are other relationships in the Legendarium that I really do think Tolkien deliberately and unequivocally coded as queer, and I've used all those same examples you list to back up my arguments. And I do see the parallels with Luthien and Beren (just as Sam/Frodo has parallels with that). But otherwise, I don't see a lot of queer coding. Which is not to say that I think it's a bad ship, just that I don't really see much in the text to support it or see much indication that it's what Tolkien intended. I would love to be convinced, though! I swear I'm not trying to bash Russingon or provoke anything. It seems like you have put a lot of thought and research into this, and I'm honestly curious, because this is a ship that has always puzzled me a bit.

First, thank you for asking! It’s always a pleasure to talk about my boys and my OTP to end all OTPs

I want to start what’s probably going to be a long series of self-reblogs by saying something that’s going to be important in the long haul: there is a difference between “I personally interpret this in a way that enhances the story, and it’s canonically compliant” and “I think and will seriously argue that Russingon is supported canonically by things that explicitly exist to point toward it being more than friendship”. The line can get kind of fuzzy, but it does exist, and the foundation of any good queer analysis is recognizing that.

So before I get into Sarah Waters, Mary Renault, and what the British legal system has to do with any of this, I’m going to make three lists.

Stuff That Probably Doesn’t Mean Anything, But That Is Fun To Examine From A Shipping Perspective:

Maedhros wears a copper circlet, Fingon wears gold in his braids

Maedhros abdicated the throne in favor of Fingon entering the line of succession

Maedhros stepped into a position of military authority after Fingon took the throne, working closely with him specifically to attack Angband after the Bragollach

Fingon is stated by Tolkien himself to have never married nor had biological children, and Maedhros never married nor had biological children either

Stuff That Is Ambiguous In Intent, But Is More Significant Than The Above:

Fingon clearly still cared enough about Maedhros that despite probably not knowing whether or not he burned the ships, he set out to rescue him alone in a display of loyalty to the rival royal line that put his priorities firmly in the “this nér whom I love” camp. It’s worth noting that Maedhros’s family are the reason that his sister-in-law is dead, the reason many of his own people froze to death, and the reason his brother is dead. Maedhros’s rescue, and forgiving him, is more important to Fingon than any of that. Why?

Morgoth’s battle plan for the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (as relayed in the Grey Annals in The War of the Jewels) involved forcing Maedhros and Fingon apart and trying to take both of them down simultaneously. Fingon was of course ultimately killed by Balrogs, and Maedhros avoided being killed by allies-turned-spies, but the goal was to keep them apart and incapacitate them both. Why?

Maedhros’s mental stability, willingness to exist in a society, passion for fighting Morgoth, and desire to curtail his brothers’ worst impulses all evaporate after Fingon’s death and Fingon’s death specifically. Why?

Maedhros and Fingon maintain a relationship with each other that is significantly more important to their actions than similar relationships between Finwëan cousins. Aredhel is never recorded as prioritizing Celegorm to the same extent, and Finrod only goes on a hunting trip with Maedhros and Maglor after things between their families are patched up. Why are they different from others in this way?

Stuff That Actually Matters In Analysis:

Fingon and Maedhros, Beren and Lúthien, and Frodo and Sam all share very nearly the same story at a crucial point. All three feature a situation where a rescuing party feared the one they loved was dead, discovered they were actually held prisoner by Sauron, went alone into peril, and used a song to find who they searched for successfully. Both Maedhros and Beren lost a hand in the course of their journey. Frodo lost a finger, and Sam cut the hand from the orc whipping him. All three pairs were rescued by at least one of the great eagles. Sam and Frodo have on-page declarations of love. Beren and Lúthien are the self-inserts of the author and his wife. This connection is not accidental; the author explicitly compares Frodo and Sam to Beren and Lúthien on the Quest for the Silmaril in the text of The Two Towers. If Maedhros and Fingon are being linked thematically with the central romantic relationship of the Legendarium, there is a reason why.

The Grey Annals tells us that Fingon rescued Maedhros “and their love was renewed”. That’s a direct quote from the text, not an exaggeration. This is more canonical proof of love than we get for some married couples (notably Fëanor and Nerdanel, who are never stated to love one another in the text).

Laws and Customs Among the Eldar explicitly states that half-first-cousins are allowed to marry without it being considered incestuous, so long as their parents aren’t close. That seems like an extremely odd standard, until you remember that there is an unusually close pair of half-first-cousins whose parents don’t get along.

(Obligatory note: the published Silmarillion does state that Idril and Maeglin are too close to marry. The published Silmarillion’s treatment of Maeglin is also almost certainly invented by Christopher Tolkien - Maeglin in the drafts written by JRRT himself is wildly different than how he appears when Chris writes him. Tolkien himself avoided making any such statements about cousin marriage and Turgon opposed Maeglin marrying Idril because he didn’t think it was a love marriage.)

The Grey Annals also discusses one of the histories of the green elfstone that Aragorn receives from Galadriel as a wedding gift - in this draft, it was made by Fëanor, and Maedhros gave it to Fingon. When Aragorn receives it, it’s been set in a brooch in the form of an eagle. Here we have another thing that passed between Maedhros and Fingon that is explicitly linked to romantic relationships between two characters echoing Beren and Lúthien. This is once again not accidental.

Fingon’s harp is almost certainly a reference to the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, which also heavily inspired Lúthien pleading for Beren in Mandos. Yet again, we have deliberate intent by the author to position this relationship in a light that reflects romance above all else. You could even go further and point out that there are parallels between Thingol’s hostility toward Beren and Fëanor’s distrust and hatred of the Nolofinwëans. Túrin and Beleg, who get to kiss on the page, are also echoes of Russingon - early bliss marred by a kinslaying, a hopeless quest alone armed with a bow, an injury that results from freeing the captive party.

The fact of the matter is that none of this is accidental. Tolkien was deliberate in his worldbuilding, his parallels, his setups and his plot choices. There is a reason that Fingon and Maedhros are linked to so much romance, a reason that they are positioned on equal footing with other more clearly queercoded ships, a reason that it’s their relationship that shapes the First Age. When you accept that none of it happened accidentally, that allows you to broaden your scope, and look at Tolkien’s inspirations, his life, his friendships, cultural influences, and why he might have been so cagey about his M/M ships when they aren’t just important but vital to the text. (After all, Sam and Frodo’s happy ending comes after Sam’s time in heteronormativity, and Túrin and Beleg fall apart in a similar fashion.)

It’s just - it’s not crazy or insane or Shipper Goggles to say “these relationships matter, and the stories actually don’t make sense without them”. That’s all.

(Next time, if you like, we’re going to talk about historical fiction, and there will be lesbians.)

#RUSSINGON #silmarillion #silmarillion meta #absynthe’s meta #replies #tolkien #anon replies

[ceescedasticity]

Silmarillion war crimes

(Finally motivated to make this because someone said the Silmarillion elves committed 'all the war crimes', and while I know, I know they were just exaggerating for comic effect it still drives me up the wall.)

First piece of housekeeping: Technically speaking war crimes are war crimes because they were defined as such in various treaties. You aren't technically violating the Geneva Conventions if you aren't signatory to them. But, they do often get talked about more like universally applicable rules.

Second piece of housekeeping: I think no one is actually accusing the Fëanorians of, like, cutting undersea communications cables or impersonating the Red Cross. There are some war crimes which are obviously not applicable and I'm not going to discuss them.

Third piece of housekeeping: There are a lot of provisions in the Geneva Conventions. Someone else can go through all of them if they like. So, I'm going to go with this list gleaned from the section of the Wikipedia page on war crimes about the international criminal court:

Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health

Torture or inhumane treatment

Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property

Forcing a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of a hostile power

Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial

Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer

Taking hostages

Directing attacks against civilians

Killing a surrendered combatant

Misusing a flag of truce, a flag or uniform of the enemy

Settlement of occupied territory

Deportation of inhabitants of occupied territory

Using poison weapons

Using civilians as shields

Using child soldiers

Firing upon a Combat Medic with clear insignia.

Summary execution

Rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution or forced pregnancy

Fourth piece of housekeeping: I'm not just going to look at the Fëanorians. That's not fair. There's elves vs. other elves, elves vs. dwarves, dwarves vs. elves, Angband vs. everyone, everyone vs. Angband, etc. I should probably define some of these groups starting out but I'm not going to.

So. This will be long.

1. Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health

I'm a little puzzled about this one, actually. I thought that was just… assumed to be part of war???

Killing as more than a means to some non-killing-related end???

At any rate I'm inclined to say everyone conducting war in the Silmarillion did this. I don't think anyone was trying to minimize military casualties.

Edit: Have been informed it's meant to be killing of people protected under the conventions. In which case it's a lot more questionable. For some people.

2. Torture or inhumane treatment

Angband did this, obviously.

A lot.

Really a lot.

We don't have any record of any elves doing it, or dwarves, or Edain.

…Except Túrin's outlaws but they're kind of a weird circumstance.

3. Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property

(Seems like there might be a lot of wiggle room in 'unlawful'…)

Well, anyway, Angband also did this, obviously, a lot.

The dwarven sack of Menegroth counts as this.

Seizure of the swan-ships arguably counts as this one, though I'd actually hesitate on that one. I think that wasn't a war crime, that was a crime crime, because they weren't at war.

If the Fëanorians scavenged from Menegroth before leaving that probably counts, but that's speculation.

The Host of the West did destroy Angband, if you want to count that.

Edit: And the Fëanorians destroyed the Havens of Sirion.

4. Forcing a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of a hostile power

Angband, yet again. It's a little less obvious here since it's not like they put prisoners in the regular army unless you count orcs, but brainwashing prisoners and sending them out as agents probably counts.

Also their treatment of prisoners of war generally violates a lot of stuff in the Third Geneva Convention.

I do not think we have grounds to say anyone else did this, partially because I'm not sure we have grounds to say anyone else ever took any prisoners.

Elrond and Elros are a gray area, but if they ended up fighting with the Fëanorians there's no reason to believe it was against anyone but Angband.

Oh, and I suppose the Host of the West took prisoners, but I'm sure they didn't do this.

5. Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial

I mean, you could say that prisoners of war in Angband got the same kind of trial that anyone else in Angband got?

But otherwise Angband again, yeah.

The Host of the West… I'm not sure. Do you count the judgments of Ëonwë as a fair trial?

Everyone else: No prisoners, not an issue.

…Look I don't know what to say about Túrin and Mîm. I'm inclined to say a lot of the outlaws' bad behavior was crime crime not war crime. I don't know.

6. Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer

Angband back in the definitely column here.

I don't think anyone else is. Sure, Menegroth and Sirion were abandoned, but it wasn't because the Fëanorians stuck around chasing people away.

7. Taking hostages

Angband, explicitly with Maedhros and I think implicitly elsewhere.

The Easterlings serving Angband also explicitly took hostages.

The Fëanorians took Elrond and Elros. It doesn't seem to have been terribly effective, but it was hostage-taking.

Celegorm and Curufin holding Lúthien could be this if you consider the Fëanorians to have been at war with Doriath at that point, but that's sort of dubious? Maybe a war crime, maybe a crime crime.

8. Directing attacks against civilians

Angband.

The Fëanorians attacked the entire communities of Menegroth and the Havens of Sirion. They may or may not have made any attempt to avoid deliberately killing noncombatants in one or both cases, but they were unavoidably attacks on civilians.

The dwarven attack on Menegroth is similarly an attack on civilians.

If you consider any orcs, trolls, balrogs, vampires, werewolves, etc. to be civilians, then the Host of the West almost certainly did this. You can argue that none of them counted as civilians; you can also argue that the Host of the West managed not to attack e.g. orc children, but I don't think that's very likely.

The Easterlings serving Angband did have civilians, but I think it's more likely the Host of the West avoided attacking those.

9. Killing a surrendered combatant

I don't think anyone is directly attested as doing this?

The overall impression one gets of the First Age is a general deficit of surrender.

But: if anyone surrendered to Angband's forces rather than trying to fight or escape until they physically couldn't, I'm sure some of them were killed (and some weren't, because Angband wanted slaves).

If any orcs/werewolves/vampires/trolls/dragons/balrogs dared to surrender rather than fight to the death or escape, I'm sure some to most of them were killed.

If any dwarves of Nogrod tried to surrender to Beren and the Ents, they were killed.

We don't know about the dwarven sack of Menegroth or any of the Kinslayings (on either side).

The Host of the West accepted at least some surrenders, but we don't know if it was all of them.

10. Misusing a flag of truce, a flag or uniform of the enemy

Angband doesn't get much of an opportunity for this because no one trusts their truces and it's not like switching flags or uniforms would help, insofar as there are uniforms.

But they did propose a negotiation under false pretenses.

Of course the Fëanorians also agreed to it under false pretenses.

The Silmaril Quest is absolutely full of people disguising themselves as Angband's forces. If you want to get pedantic about it uniforms and flags were not the key part of those disguises, but I think it's the same idea?

Edit: Unless you want to count them as spies, not soldiers. There are different rules for spies, which is to say I don't think there are any rules about spies, either what they can do or what can be done to them. I think that may be a better frame for this.

I feel like the Easterlings who announced their allegiance change mid-battle may also count as this?

11. Settlement of occupied territory

Angband generally prefers the scorched-earth approach, but they do settle their Easterlings in occupied territory.

No one else does this.

Like the Fëanorians had enough people left to 'occupy' anything.

(Or I guess arguably the Host of the West occupies Angband but not for very long and they definitely don't settle there.)

12. Deportation of inhabitants of occupied territory

Angband does some of this in the form of enslaving them back in, uh, Angband, but it's true that mostly it depopulates by slaughter and most of the survives flee with no deportation as such. It doesn't deport the Edain.

Again, most others have no occupied territory.

Though everyone does have to leave Beleriand. :( Should that be attributed to the Host of the West?

13. Using poison weapons

Angband: yes.

Everyone else: No evidence of this. I wouldn't necessarily rule out them trying it against Angband if they thought it would work.

Although I suppose you could argue that weapons inimical to Angband by nature could count as poison…? Naahhh.

(Edit: Eöl used poisoned weapons, but that was murder not combat.)

14. Using civilians as shields

I don't think Angband did this one, actually?

Edain civilians as hostages, yeah, but Angband didn't have much in the way of its own civilians and didn't expect anyone to try to avoid hitting them.

Angband's Easterlings most likely tried to keep their civilians out of the way like sensible people.

15. Using child soldiers

Whether it was possible for Angband to do this with orcs depends on your interpretation.

Everyone else…

Not child soldiers in the 'take them from their families, indoctrinate them, send them out for shock value' sense.

But child soldiers in the sense of 'people we would consider children are considered adults and treated as such', yeah.

And I expect also in the sense of 'people who are not considered adults and who no one really wants fighting, but there is no true place of safety and no one wants them helpless, either, so'.

16. Firing upon a Combat Medic with clear insignia

Existence of combat medics with clear insignia is uncertain.

If they existed I'm sure Angband fired on them and tbh I wouldn't bet against anyone else doing so.

17. Summary execution

Okay, this can mean killing combatants who surrendered again, but to avoid double-counting let's say we mean non-combatants.

Well, Angband, regardless.

It would not surprise me if the Fëanorians did this in Menegroth, considering that Celegorm's servants expected to get away with murdering children, but that's not definite.

18. Rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution or forced pregnancy

Angband's Easterlings did this in Dor-lómin.

The rest of Angband…

It seems likely? In one context or another. But I don't think there are direct statements on it.

—Or actually I guess they made promises to Maeglin about Idril! Not sure if that should count when they didn't actually do anything and I'm not sure they ever meant to.

Eöl and Aredhel in the worst interpretation was not part of a war. It was a crime crime and a diplomatic disaster.

Celegorm and Curufin's behavior towards Lúthien was only questionably part of a war and I'm not sure whether it qualifies here, so I'm going to say no.

Eighteen in the somewhat arbitrary list…

Fëanorians: Definitely five four (1, 3, 7, 8, 10), possibly/arguably as many as nine (1, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, 16, 17).

Non-Fëanorian Exiles: Definitely two (1, 10), possibly/arguably as many as five (1, 9, 10, 15, 16).

Iathrim+Lúthien&Beren: Definitely two (1, 10), possibly/arguably as many as five (1, 9, 10, 15, 16).

Dwarves of Nogrod: Definitely three two (1, 3, 8), possibly/arguably as many as five (1, 3, 8, 9, 16).

Host of the West: Definitely one (1), possibly/arguably as many as seven (1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 12, 16) (that's what you get for winning).

Angband and associates: Definitely thirteen (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18), possibly/arguably seventeen (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18).

Admittedly it's silly to look at Angband at all when it was in a constant state of total war against basically everybody…

#tolkien #unsolicited fandom opinions #pedantic woman strikes again #a tolkien tag #i know i know i'm no fun at all

[aipilosse]

What are your thoughts about why and how Sauron followed and continued to serve Melkor/Morgoth? I get that Tolkien said that he admired how Melkor was uber powerful and could effect his designs quickly and easily (initially). But Sauron is also described as being a logical control freak who hates wasteful friction but loves organization and logistics? Whereas Morgoth especially seemed like, well, the king and ultimate arbiter of “wasteful friction”. He destroyed stuff just for the sake of destroying stuff. He poured his own power into the world to make it decay and eventually destroy itself. So he sorta wasted himself and the world together? I don’t know if I’m explaining this well or not but I wonder what Sauron thought of his master when he was no longer so powerful (we know he at least didn’t betray him and continued to be loyal.) At the least, he must have been hella frustrated with him at times.

I think it all began to break down after Morgoth's duel with Fingolfin.

That was the last time in those wars that he passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for though his might was greatest of all things in this world, alone of the Valar he knew fear. But he could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains; for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fingolfin’s horn, and his voice came keen and clear down into the depths of Angband; and Fingolfin named Morgoth craven, and lord of slaves.

The Dagor Bragollach had just happened, breaking the siege, destroying the realms of the Noldor. It was the result of careful planning, creating awesome monsters, and using environmental destruction to incredible effect. And then Morgoth can barely squish one noisy little Elf-Lord!

I think up to that point Sauron thought that Morgoth's strategy of imbuing Arda with his power was smart, impressive even. Maybe it was not yet evident how that weakened his own being and resulted in processes Morgoth could no longer control.

Also, yes Sauron doesn't betray Morgoth, but after the Bragollach he held Tol Sirion turning it into Tol-in-Gaurhoth. You have to wonder if one or both of them thought it would be better if there was a little separation between them. And Sauron is certainly loyal to Morgoth in the Leithian, but then he suffers a defeat that is much more humiliating that getting poked in the foot by a small yet angry elf.

I personally am now on board with the theory that after his defeat at the hands of Lúthien and Huan, Sauron never returns to Morgoth. I think he stayed in Taur-nu-Fuin, licking his wounds, haunting up the place, maybe meeting Shelob's mom and trying out some spider pets, but I don't think he went back to Angband nor coordinated with Morgoth after that.

The next time we see him, he's asking Eonwe for forgiveness, groveling, and at that point abjuring his deeds under Morgoth. Which I don't think Morgoth would say was especially loyal! I think from that point onward, Sauron is definitely in it for himself, using past connections with Morgoth for his own gain, but not holding any particular loyalty to him.

Thanks for the question!!

#Sauron #Morgoth #asks #I used to like imagining sauron helping plan the fall of gondolin #but now I'm much more into him pouting on the sidelines

[ecoamerica]

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[hirazuki]

I’m finally getting ready to bite the bullet and start purchasing stuff for this guy, so I sketched out a couple of different options based on what I would buy/make  to see what combination of things I liked best -- and here are the final designs I settled on for Lieutenant of Angband, Annatar, and Zigur!

Some notes, for fun:

I adore all the armored First Age designs of him I’ve seen over the years, but I’ve somehow never been able to get behind the idea of a huge painted eye on his breastplate -- even though it looks extremely badass!! I just can’t picture him wearing his own insignia while serving Melkor (and not because Melkor would not tolerate it or anything; simply out of respect for him). Like, I can see it during the three ages while Melkor was imprisoned, especially if one headcanons that he initially would have been met with some resistance to taking up leadership in the interim and had to prove his worth; but not while Melkor was in Beleriand XD

I’m always torn between plate armor and scale mail for First Age, but I think I’ve finally decided to lean towards scale mail just because he had dragons available to him; I imagine he’d absolutely take advantage of the extremely useful and precious materials at his disposal ethically harvested, of course, they were just scales that shed naturally, they are his babies after all

I know the conventional interpretation of Annatar’s hair is a very pale, bright blond (which I’m guessing Shadow of Mordor has something to do with that), but I’ve always seen him as a warmer, deeper blond, kind of like honey. My version of Annatar has always been heavily influenced by Cedric from W.I.T.C.H.

Zigur I have no deep thoughts on; it’s just my byzantine/gothic heart going WILD XD

#annatar #zigur #tolkien #silmarillion #i'm super excited about this! #... my bank account is not XD #i think i'm going to go for FA first #then annatar #zigur i really want to shoot on location in one of my family's small churches back in greece so #it's going to be some time before i can go home to visit; prob a year or more #so he's not a priority #my art #mairon #sauron #silm #hira draws tolkien

[imakemywings]

Canon divergence AU: Feanor sends a delegation to Thingol (after Losgar and before the Dagor-nuin-Giliath)

AU asks

*cracks my knuckles* Okay this one is going to take some thought.

Feanor sends a handful of Noldor into Doriath to make acquaintance with Thingol and Melian, among them Maglor (his first choice would have been Maedhros, but he finds himself less than fully trustful of his eldest after Maedhros' restraint at Losgar).

Some things stay the same: Feanor and his representatives keep mum about Alqualonde. Feanor may have left sanity behind in Tirion but even he knows Olwe's brother will not react well to that, even if Feanor feels it was justified.

Because Feanor's reps explain (sort of) the situation (Melkor killed Finwe and stole from Feanor; they're here to avenge that) there's no period where the Umanyar believe the Amanyar were sent by the Valar to help them.

Thingol still wary of allying with these strangers who've come into Beleriand for their own ends.

Because the Arafinweans aren't there, and the Feanorians have no reason to believe they're coming, they can't rely on familial ties with Thingol to sway him.

Thingol recognizes that even if they are an unknown factor, they oppose Melkor, which is helpful, so he makes an agreement to give the Feanorians some land to settle on (they have to go somewhere, after all)

The Feanorians still take some of the land closest to Angband because Feanor essentially intends to take control of the entire war against Melkor and therefore wants to be up front.

Thingol send a couple of his own representatives to the Feanorians' camp basically to spy on them and learn about them (for my own bias, Daeron is one of them and he picks up Quenya far quicker than any of the rest but pretends he doesn't so he can eavesdrop more)

Partly out of his old affection for Finwe, Thingol invites Feanor himself to Menegroth.

Feanor definitely speaks stirringly, but over the course of their encounter it becomes apparent to Thingol that Feanor burns far too hot for anyone he wants to ally with. It's clear that Feanor is driven by a rabid desire for revenge and Thingol is also hugely not a fan of his "the Valar are against us" spiel (Feanor immediately pretty mistrustful of Melian and anyone related to her, including Thingol and Luthien).

He tries to end the meeting without making his stance clear, but Feanor pushes, and Thingol tells him his honest opinion: He doesn't trust Feanor as an ally, he thinks he's reckless, and he doesn't want any part of Feanor's plan to assault Angband.

Naturally Feanor loses his temper; they have a big fight in the throne room and Feanor accuses Thingol of cowardice and false friendship to Finwe; Thingol doesn't exactly throw Feanor out, but he is most certainly invited to take his leave, which he does.

Feanor storms out with his reps Maglor trying to stuff his number into Daeron's hand on the way out and goes on to launch the effort that ends in his death-by-balrog.

Basically I think Feanor would blow up any actual diplomacy with Doriath anyway, so his effort is always going to be doomed because he is exactly the kind of person Thingol would not want to ally with, and that gets proven to a T with how Feanor dies. I think Thingol would grieve this, because he would be inclined to want to help Finwe's son, but I don't think he would like Feanor, and he also has to put his people first, which means not tying them to Feanor's mania.

#poutrope #asks

[nurantarenendurath]

Small

Ungolianth: Small creatures are vicious!

Gothmog: That's ridicoulous! What for example?

Ungolianth: Elves.

Mairon: Hobbits.

Melkor: Mairon!

#Angbang #Melkor #Mairon #Sauron #Morgoth #small #hobbits #incorrect silmarillion quotes #Ungolianth #Gothmog #Angband #Silmarillion #chat #quote #stuff

[doodle-pops]

Sleeping With Them | The Silmarillion

A/N: Finally decided to post the original version of this after almost a year.

Sleeping With Them: Lotr ver.

Cuddler – they love the idea of either of you wrapping your arms around each other to fall asleep. Either of your faces pressed into each other necks. The light, soft breathing coming from your lips, while they’re snoring. With both of you curled up against each other, your slumber is one of the most peaceful nights of sleep.

MAGLOR, Celegorm, Celebrimbor, FINGON, Argon, FINARFIN, FINROD, Aegnor, Glorfindel, GALDOR, ROG, Egalmoth, Maeglin, BELEG, ELLADAN, ELROHIR, Elrond

Cuddle to roll away – at the start of the night the both of you are wrapped up in each other’s embrace but by the end of the night, you’ve both drifted apart. Throughout the night one of you will roll back into the other’s arms, only to roll away again.

CELEGORM, Curufin, Amrod, TURGON, ARGON, Angrod, Ecthelion, Beleg

Sleeps apart – from the start of your sleep to the end, you both lay on different ends of the bed. It’s not that either of you doesn’t like to cuddle, it’s just that you need space to roll around, so you don’t hit them, and they don’t need to be a victim of your moves.

FEANOR, Maedhros, Caranthir, CURUFIN, Fingolfin, Argon

Small spoon - it doesn't matter how many times you attempt to cuddle them, it always ends up with them in your arms while clinging to you like some koala. You're lucky they haven't rolled on top you. If a hand isn't thrown across you, it's their foot. They're like babies and demand that you snuggle them with kisses and back rub and the whole lot.

Feanor, AMROD, AMRAS, FINGON, Argon, FINROD, Aegnor, GLORFINDEL, Egalmoth, MAEGLIN, BELEG, ELLADAN

Blanket Thief – you’ll go to sleep with the blanket wrapped heavenly around you and then wake up to the coldness biting your flesh in the middle of the night. When you look around for your blanket, wondering if it grew legs and ran away, you see them wrapped up, snuggling, in it. It’s impossible to yank it off them, so you just lay there in the cold.

FEANOR, CELEGORM, Curufin, Amras, Galdor, ELLADAN

Sleep Talkers – they never stop once they start. They say the most ridiculous stuff ever. Open the cupboard for the sugar to leave, help me find my sheep. The hell? Sometimes you engage in conversation with them just to hear them say more shit. Surprisingly, the conversation is actually good.

Feanor, Caranthir, Celebrimbor, FINGON, FINROD, Aegnor, GLORFINDEL,

Sleep Fighters – look at this point, I’m sorry for you and I hope you survive the night with at least some sleep cuz you ain’t getting any. Unless you don’t mind sleeping on the floor when they kick you off. You’ll be catching their hands and feet all night, all over. At least take a few pointers from their moves, you might learn something.

POST ANGBAND MAEDHROS, CELEGORM, Egalmoth, Elladan

Sleepwalkers – you’ll wake up to someone poking you, asking if you want some sugar in your tea while holding a powder bottle. When you look up, it’s them unconsciously walking about the house picking up items and rearranging them or sometimes, just sitting and staring off at Eru knows what. It is quite alarming because you once woke up to them curled up and laughing on the staircase, holding a pot. What was the joke? I don’t even know.

Maglor, Caranthir, Amrod, ARGON, ANGROD, Galdor, MAEGLIN, BELEG, Elrohir

Sleep laughers – so I know this one’s strange but lemme explain, sleep laughing does exist and sadly I’m proof, I used to do it but not anymore. Like me, they’d wake up to themselves laughing from their slumber. We don’t even know what the hell the dream was about. It’s gone from our minds. Just know the dream was funny. It’s scary when you’re sleeping, and you hear laughing coming from next to you. The fuck? Not tonight satan Morgoth.

AMROD, Amras, Fingon, ARGON, Aegnor, Glorfindel

Sleeping on top one another – the comfortable weight of either of your bodies resting on the other lulls you both to sleep gracefully. They enjoy this way of sleeping with you. Arms sprawled out on either side, legs encaged around theirs and they’re snoring lightly. The weight of them on their chest seems to be just right. Pulling the sheets around you two, they’d wrap their arms and drift off to sleep.

MAEDHROS, CELEGORM, Caranthir, CELEBRIMBOR, FINGOLFIN, FINGON, Turgon, Finarfin, AEGNOR, GLORFINDEL, GALDOR, EGALMOTH, ROG, BELEG, ELROHIR, ELROND

Sleeps straight on their back throughout the entire night and doesn’t move – are they dead? Are they crazy? Who the hell sleeps like that the entire night? They look so still. Are they moving? They’re not…breathing? Why aren’t they turning? You thought you were sleeping next to a dead the first time you woke up and turned to look at them. They were in the same spot and position you left them when you both fell asleep.

FEANOR, Caranthir, CURUFIN, TURGON, Angrod, Ecthelion, Rog, ELROND, ELROHIR

Heavy sleepers – the house could be burning, the earth could split open and sink the house, the dead could rise, or you could roll them off a cliff and they’d be fast asleep. They’re no hope left for you besides leaving them alone. They’ll wake up when they want to wake up.

CELEGORM, Curufin, Amras, TURGON, Argon, Finarfin, ANGROD, Glorfindel, Egalmoth, ROG, ELLADAN

Snorers – you’re doomed from start to end. Have earplugs on standby every night or sleep on the couch. You’re not gonna get sleep at all. They sound like a lawnmower. You can’t sleep through that. Sometimes you wonder if they’re cutting grass in their sleep.

CELEGORM, Curufin, Fingolfin, ARGON, Elladan

Sleeps in weird positions – you and I can’t comprehend half of the positions that they contort their bodies to sleep. Is that even comfortable? It doesn’t look so. Why is their head positioned like that? Do they want to break it? They’re also known to be able to sleep anywhere as well. Don’t be surprised if you wake up to them sleeping on their heads.

CELEGORM, AMROD, AMRAS, Fingon, Finrod, Glorfindel, Maeglin, Beleg, Elrohir

Doesn’t need sleep. Sleep is for the weak – this one is self-explanatory. Sleep? Who’s that? Don’t know them. Never heard of them. Don’t introduce me. I don’t need to go any further.

FEANOR, POST ANGBAND MAEDHROS, MAGLOR, CELEGORM, Celebrimbor, Fingolfin, Turgon, Angrod, Ecthelion, Rog

I don’t need sleep, I need answers – this one is also self-explanatory. They’re mostly the overthinkers who create an entire scenario or theory and because of this they can’t sleep, so they spend the whole night awake creating more scenarios and theories to answer their problems. They are basically us.

FEANOR, Maglor, CELEBRIMBOR, Amrod, Fingon, ARGON, FINROD, Aegnor, GLORFINDEL, Egalmoth, Beleg, Elrond

If I can’t sleep, neither can you or I’ll wake the household – if they can’t sleep, it’s a you problem, seriously. You’re going to have to deal with their problem as well and no, they don’t take your negativity towards their problem lightly or as a response. We’re all in this together.

FEANOR, CELEGORM, Curufin, Amrod, Amras, ARGON, BELEG, Elladan

I can’t sleep, so I’ll drink to sleep – this is truly a quick and easy way to dreamland for them, the only problem is that they have to go through that drunk phase first – which clearly isn’t the best phase for them.

MAEDHROS, Maglor, CARANTHIR, Curufin, Celebrimbor, FINGOLFIN, TURGON, FINARFIN, Finrod, ECTHELION, ROG, MAEGLIN, Elrond

Masterlist

Taglist: @spidergirla5 @eunoiaastralwings @lilmelily @noldorinpainter @mysticmoomin @aconstructofamind

#beleg x reader #galdor x reader #feanor x reader #elrond x reader #glorfindel x reader #maedhros x reader #finarfin x reader #finrod x reader #argon x reader #angrod x reader #aegnor x reader #celebrimbor x reader #curufin x reader #rog x reader #fingolfin x reader #maglor x reader #fingon x reader #turgon x reader #caranthir x reader #egalmoth x reader #ecthelion x reader #celegorm x reader #amrod x reader #amras x reader #elladan x reader #elrohir x reader #maeglin x reader #silmarillion imagine #silmarillion x reader #doodlepops writings ✨

[ecoamerica]

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