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#anti mandalorians
short-wooloo · 1 year
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I feel that people need to be reminded that Obi-Wan kicked the shit out of Jango
Like, I often see people describing it as Jango beating Obi-Wan, or citing it as proof that a mando is evenly matched to a Jedi
But that's not what happens
Even without his lightsaber (which by the way, the lack thereof kinda makes the "evenly matched" thing fall apart), Obi-Wan is able to hold his own against Jango, who conversely has to use basically all his tricks to keep up
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jedi-enthusiast · 8 months
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Ok, I've been writing a little for my Vampire!Obi-Wan arranged marriage AU, and one thing I keep thinking about is:
Mandalore fucking stole the Darksaber.
They fucking stole it!
Tarre Visla was born a Mandalorian, yes, but he was raised and grew up as a Jedi! He even became a Knight!
Yes, we know that he had to leave the Order at some point to go help his homeworld- (since we know that he eventually became Manda'lor and Jedi can't hold positions of power) -but we know that he still must've had good relations with the Jedi and still held them in high regard because he gave them his lightsaber.
His lightsaber went to the Jedi when he died---and it had to have been willingly because nothing in canon even hints that the Jedi took it by force, when that definitely would've been something pointed out by Pre Visla in TCW or Fenn Rau in Rebels, if that was the case.
He left his lightsaber, his life, with the Jedi...
...and then Mandalorians broke into the Temple, stole his lightsaber, and then proceeded to use it and his legacy for their own selfish purposes---while also ignoring the fact that he was raised as a Jedi and the fact that he brought peace to Mandalore, rather than the war that they value so much.
Just...every time I think about it, it pisses me off.
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awesomestarfighter · 4 months
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I Should Have Known Better Then To Debate My Brother On Star Wars But I Did It Anyway
That's a lengthy way to start a post, I know, but I'm in a very riled up mood right now.
I remember the first time I argued with him about this. Our family did a rewatch of the Star Wars series (prequels than originals) at my request (and I usually never get emotional, so they were very concerned when I started crying my eyes out during Order 66 and asking if we should stop) and afterwards we talked.
Since I'm an avid Pro Jedi fan, there was a lot of arguing about 'The Jedi could have done this/should have done this!'. A bit with my family, but mostly with my brother since we're an argumentative pair and he's the only one who's watched extra materials such as TCW to further why the Jedi failed/should have done more.
We had to agree to disagree, so it ended there. Now here I am years later, having already talked to him about why glorifying this particularly abusive M/F is not peak romance or good writing, what defines bad writing, and general amatonormativity, and since I'm back in a SW swing, I thought about bringing it up to him, hoping he'd gotten a little more flexible since the last time we talked about it.
Clearly, I was too optimistic to think that.
Cue the usual tangent of (which I've already seen from. . . So many fans):
-The Jedi should have known Palpatine was a Sith.
-They should have treated Anakin better.
-They should have made him a Master.
-They shouldn't have given him that advice about death.
-Obi-Wan wasn't ready for a Padawan.
-They should have investigated Sifo-Dyas's murder.
-They should have investigated more.
-That's just the way the story is written and how the characters would react in real life, so of course Filoni is a good viewpoint on the Jedi.
. . . And just the general, 'they should have done more' statement that's been uttered countless times before.
I tried to point out the flaws in this way of thinking, I really did.
-It's established right in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a very long time, and they verbally acknowledge that they don't know whether the one killed was the Master of the Apprentice, so it wasn't like they just up and forgot about the enemy that could still be out there. And it's literally stated in the very next movie that their ability to use the Force has been diminished, so it's not like they could have seen the Sith in plain sight in the force. Minor note, I know Force Signatures are mentioned a lot in fanon, but I don't remember anything like that ever being mentioned in canon (I know there's Legends but that's a separate continuity). With all that to keep in mind, why would they think he was a Sith? We have a different view of things because we're the audience, but they don't! Even though they didn't magically know he was the Sith Lord, that doesn't mean they're blind to his dealings or the corruption within the Senate, unless I completely hallucinated the part where the Jedi Masters were on their way to arrest Palpatine even before they learned he was a Sith Lord.
-Questioning a kid to see how he would respond to your ways of life is not being nice enough apparently (people can debate about his trauma and the authorial intent all day, but the basis is that the Jedi are not supposed to be framed as the bad guys). Apparently adopting him and treating him as a part of their family just isn't enough. Clearly, they should have coddled him even more, maybe then he wouldn't have murdered them down to the last child! (This is sarcasm because they never treated him differently or anything, even the Chosen One thing is barely brought up, and all his darkest moments are ones the Jedi were never made aware of). I know people will just say to put him in therapy because I've seen them say that many times before, but the truth is that he's already in therapy with the Jedi, he just doesn't absorb any of it because he doesn't want to.
-Yeah, because an adult throwing a temper tantrum when he's been appointed to a leading authority by a shady government leader who should not have any authority over their organization isn't sketchy as fuck, that response alone proves he WAS not ready, because he still didn't understand what the Jedi were about, much less mastery of himself. My brother at least admitted that was a good point when I outlined it, so score for me, I guess.
-People give Yoda grief all the time for his advice, but they always seem to forget that, firstly, Anakin is asking this during a war they've been fighting for three years, one they've lost many friends and family to, and secondly. . . Anakin was really fucking vague when he brought this forward. He doesn't even specify who he's talking about isn't a fellow Jedi, clone, or otherwise (And I can't help but draw a parallel to how he didn't tell Obi-Wan about his visions of Shmi and people will blame Obi-Wan when Anakin's the one who can't bother to properly fucking communicate) and he doesn't listen because it's not what he wants to hear. He doesn't just want to save Padme; he wants to cheat death because he's possessive and greedy and doesn't want his loved ones to ever leave him. Yoda's advice was actually very useful, but since when has Anakin ever listened to good advice? Once again, my brother admitted that was a good point, so the second score went to me.
-I know fandom loves to portray Obi-Wan as this self-hating mess that's barely keeping it together (who also does a lot of medic dodging for some reason?). . . But that's not who he is in canon? The real Obi-Wan is controlled and capable, and he was a young adult when he was Knighted, not a kid, who went on to become the youngest member of the Council when he became a Master. It wasn't like he was left to teach Anakin alone, because he had the Order, and they're canonically big on communal teaching. Even just in the movies, we frequently see that Obi-Wan's the one who reaches out to Anakin and Anakin's the one who shuts him out. Obi-Wan was a great teacher, Anakin was just a shit student.
-The Jedi learned about Sifo-Dyas's unauthorized role in the creation of the clone army literally right before the war broke out, so it wasn't like they were in a position where they could look more into it. Even before that, they were under the impression that he died during a failed peace negotiation. My brother still said this even though there was a literal WHOLE ASS ARC IN TCW WHERE THEY INVESTIGATED HIS DEATH. He watched that arc to, and he still says they should have investigated his death even when they literally did. I have no words for such a contradictory way of thinking.
-I know it's easy to say stuff like that, but Star Wars isn't written for adults who want all the messy bits, but for kids for a good vs evil story, so of course investigation stuff is shoved to the side. Even in TCW where we do see them investigating, they're hampered by the Senate, by Palpatine, by the war, and by the narrative. Even ignoring that, Anakin literally said in ROTS that Palpatine was the Sith THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, so that means they were investigating even though we didn't see it onscreen.
-Filoni. . . God just thinking about him makes me angry. I could write a whole essay on how he's twisted the narrative for Star Wars so badly, and I hate essays, but plenty of people have already done it better, so I won't.
-But still, I think it's hilarious that I can point out certain things he's written terribly (TCW, TOTJ, TTB, and Ahsoka) to show that he doesn't like the Jedi, and my brother is still saying, 'well that's just how the story is written and how the characters will react so he doesn't really hate the Jedi with that sort of evidence and blah blah blah.'
-Of course, for TCW, my brother brought up that stupid arc where AsHoKa iS pErSeCuTeD - I just think it's funny how, with trying to make his special oc look good and the Jedi Council unlikable, Filoni accidentally made her unintentional unsympathetic and made the dOgMaTiC lEaDeRsHiP unintentionally sympathetic. And of course, who could forget the infamous s7 moment of her not being fair to Obi-Wan? I know people will say she's a teenager and she's confused and she's still feeling betrayed - but the thing is, that doesn't hold up because the narrative never follows up on it. It's not a personal flaw of hers, it's solely there to frame Ahsoka (and Bo-Katan/the Mandalorians by proxy) as right and Obi-Wan (and the Jedi Council/Order by proxy) as wrong. I'm sure there are more examples that can be noted, but those are definitely two of the biggest offenses in my book.
-Tales of the Jedi wasn't even about the Jedi, it was about two specific individuals who LEFT the Jedi. One who went on to become invincible/immortal/a sanctimonious prick/even more of a mouthpiece then she already was, the other went on to become the undisputed head of an enemy who went full throttle on genocide, slavery, and war crimes. Mace's treatment and Yaddle's treatment was more poorly veiled racism and even more poorly veiled Jedi hate. And of course, the super special training from Anakin that allowed Ahsoka to survive Order 66 unlike those useless unprepared Jedi who were too soft on their kids - but really just made him look like an incredibly abusive parent. Frankly, while I do hate Anakin and can see him pushing too hard as in character, even I can see that it could have been written a lot better than it was. Tales of the Jedi was a fucking joke because it should have been titled 'Tales of The Super Special Creators Pet OC and the Asshole Who Falls And Spearheads A War', and if we ever get Jedi content that is actually positive for them without the usual criticisms coming up (Kenobi's the only one so far that's come the closest) I'll be throwing a fucking party.
-Of course, I have to point out TBB's whitewashing, consistently carried over from TCW except even whiter, though I forgot to mention how that show just completely fucking forgot the Jedi existed. Though frankly, I wouldn't want them to be mentioned in the utter waste of time that TBB is.
-Ahsoka was made into even more of a mouthpiece in her show then she already was. I didn't even watch Rebels in its entirety because I don't care for it, but even with some of the more frustrating decisions with her in that span of time she never said the Order wouldn't have fallen if they had just brought in more non-Force Sensitives to train them into being Force Sensitive (another part of canon that Filoni has fucking taken a hammer to) singing Anakin's praises after she's 'saved' by him (though even in Rebels it got pretty egregious how she just fucking abandons the Rebellion and the Jedi because she won't leave him again) just being a general fandom anti on how the Order was at fault for everything and Anakin was actually predestined to become a Sith (instead of defying his destiny by attacking Mace and siding with Palpatine as per Word of God) so everything he did was justified. All written and directed by Filoni, just as the other pieces where he's had narrative control will label the Jedi as arrogant, as forgetful, as unworthy, as not ENOUGH. And as soon as he can, he shoves them aside for characters who are 'to cool to be a Jedi, a cooler Jedi than those useless old Order jerks who spent too much time playing politics and being too stringent because they were cautious rule followers and not plucky rebels and weren't loving enough to poor widdle Anakin and -'
Though frankly my brother had some pretty ludicrous takes in general. There was this whole tangent we had about how since Rex removed his chip and voided death, that makes him gray/puts him in a gray zone. I just bluescreened at that, because while I've never cared for morally gray characters/storytelling, a character stepping out of their slated place in the narrative so obviously isn't gray it's not even funny, it's infuriating. While I know a part of me being a writer is what helps me look at stories more critically, it still makes me feel so confused how people will just take in bad writing or come up with bullshit takes like this. Whatever happened to thinking critically for the good of storytelling?
. . . I don't usually write my own posts (even though I'm usually better at wording things than actually voicing an argument as it started with my brother) because I prefer to just reblog stuff on my blog, I wrote this primarily as a vent post because my argument with my brother really got me stirred up, but I've been in a salty sw mood lately so it was kind of cathartic to get this out.
Also, if any Jedi anti or fan comes at me with 'but actually the Jedi should have -' no. Please just don't. I always try to tag stuff properly so people who won't agree will know what my blog themes are about, I'm never in the mood for the run of a mill gotcha takes that infest this fandom and I will not hesitate to block you if you come onto my post for that.
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antianakin · 4 months
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The Jedi who became a Mando and then left to rejoin the Jedi OC getting the Darksaber at some point during their Mando tenure would be HILARIOUS. They wouldn't necessarily rule through it at any point I don't think, they're not interested, but it's technically theirs by right of earning it through combat so they get to keep it until someone wins it off of them. Except then they leave to rejoin the Jedi Order and they just... take the damn Darksaber with them and hand it back to the Jedi since it was stolen from them in the first place.
The Mandos are inevitably PISSED and probably try to steal it back, but it doesn't go as well this time. Take your pick as to why, maybe they just get caught this time and it violates whatever treaty the Jedi have with the Mandos for the Mandos to break into the Temple to steal from them, which doesn't go well for the Mandos. Maybe the Mandos break in only to discover they're too late and the Jedi have actually already dismantled the Darksaber, set the crystal into some kind of memorial and melted down the beskar to put away in storage for whenever someone else decides they want to use it. There IS no Darksaber to reclaim, and no Mando is ever going to be able to actually build a lightsaber themselves even if they got the crystal and beskar back. Even if they COULD, you could make a solid argument that it's no longer the real Darksaber anymore and so none of the old rules about it apply anymore and it's fucking useless as a political tool.
The Mandos can't even really claim that it was STOLEN from them because this Jedi won it fair and square by their own laws. It was THEIRS now, legally, so they were allowed to take it with them when they rejoined the Order and do whatever they wanted with it. As far as we've ever been told, there's no rules about what you're allowed to do with the Darksaber if you've earned it correctly. So if the Mandos attempt to retaliate, they are going to be legally in the wrong and could face consequences for it. So they either start a whole war over it (which they will lose again and probably worse than before), or they just have to take the hit and let the damn thing go for once.
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smhalltheurlsaretaken · 9 months
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No joke though, if you have ever harassed anyone or sent shitty anon messages to them "in defense" of the Jedi you are dead to me. I used to love the Mandos and the reason I despise them now is not in small part because I got people freaking out on me for saying what I considered to be fair criticism. They were vitriolic and I got all the same flavor of utterly ridiculous 'you're defending genocide/you're a racist/you're this and this' that some people throw around way too carelessly, and these people fully believed it too.
I'm not "pro-jedi" as in I'm not in a "team" and everybody who's not in it is my enemy. I'm """pro-jedi""" as in I'm a Jedi FAN who thinks they're awesome and don't deserve to be dunked on. Despite the very real irl reasons that can explain some of the misunderstanding/hate towards them, someone merely disliking the Jedi doesn't automatically correlate to them being an awful person and it certainly doesn't justify being an asshole to them because we've decided they must be a POS. The people who insulted me and assumed all sorts of stuff about my values over the Mandos were very righteous about it too. I don't doubt for a second that they were sincere about fighting irl prejudice.
Anyway, don't harass people over fandom. Block and move on, or vaguepost about it.
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shootingstarpilot · 4 months
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2, 5, 20 for the ask game🥰🥰🥰
Eyyyy thank you anon!!
2. What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?
Honestly? Jango Fett, and the Mandalorians as a whole.
I didn't have much of an opinion of Jango when I started, except admiring how neatly Mace decapitated him. I don't have much exposure to Legends, either, so I was relying almost entirely on Lucas's canon. Now, though- with Jango Fett being portrayed as a wonderful father and this warring culture being held up as the one that takes in all the poor :( orphaned :( children (hey who made those orphans I wonder), this one that puts such a good and pure emphasis on family- and always being held up as superior to the Jedi- I simply cannot stand them.
I tend to steer clear of fics that have Jango and/or put a lot of emphasis on how amazing Mandalorian culture is. No thank you. I'm a cripple. I have no patience for fetishizing a culture where your worth is entirely determined by how well you can fight.
5. Worst blorboficiation?
Anakin fucking Skywalker.
He's a fascinating character! Absolutely he is! But, notably, he also slaughtered thousands of innocent sentients, was entirely responsible for one massacre and played a key role in another genocide- (I think Palps would've unleashed Order 66 with or without Anakin by his side, but that doesn't change the fact that Anakin willingly helped him.) Reducing him to a wee babe who was stripped of all agency and was merely buffeted by the winds of fate - simply tripping into committing genocide - makes him so much less interesting. Let him have agency! Let him be a horrible murderous bastard! That makes the bits where he's not hit all the harder!
20. Could anyone have fixed Anakin?
No.
Other people have put it much better than I have- @gffa, @antianakin, and @david-talks-sw all come to mind- but... yeah. Not even Ahsoka, regardless of how much Certain People might like to think she could have. But only Anakin could've fixed Anakin- other people could've helped along the way, but he would have needed to choose that path for himself, and he... didn't.
It was there for him. But he chose not to. And that makes his story all the more tragic- that he had every opportunity to choose differently, and instead fucked himself over, again and again and again.
The Choose Violence ask game
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sea-owl · 11 months
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Unpopular opinion, but I am so tired of the Mandalorians.
I will admit I was never the biggest fan of them, and I think part of that reason is because they keep beating this dead horse of a plot that the Mandalorians are constantly fighting one another, then fight a big bad, then back to fighting one another because they can't get their shit together. Like damn at least during the Clone Wars era it was interesting because Satine was there to hold the planet together for over a decade and posed the question of adaption. Which I have to thank George Lucas for, according to Dave Filoni's interviews, George Lucas is the reason Satine ended up on Mandalore.
But anyway, I really hope we get to see something from a non-human species next. Ya'll got a galaxy of aliens you could choose from. Let's see what's up with them.
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team-jedi · 2 years
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Re-watching the clone wars and I’m on season 4 episode 14 and I forgot how awful death watch was in this episode. Don’t get me wrong I remember they were a bunch of assholes but I just forgot how awful and horrible their actions were.
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beskarandblasters · 1 year
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WE’RE SAFE FROM DINBO LET’S GOOO 🔥🔥🔥
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ahsoka-in-a-hood · 1 year
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It’s almost surprising that the mandalorian puts very little effort into depicting Din as an honorable mercenary- his reception is generally that of wholesome dad, but the canon is explicit about him not vetting his targets or his clients, and not caring enough to do so. He changes his mind eventually in the face of a literal baby, but he was fully prepared to do people trafficking for imperials, he generally kills without a flinch, and he says outright to his bounty in tbobf that he doesn’t care who hired him or why, and then... literally delivers a head on a plate, after killing a room full of slaughterhouse workers. That’s... not even between the lines. What did that guy actually do? He clearly has some compassion, and is frequently moved by the people he interacts with, but that’s juxtaposed with his ‘cool’ violence that barely makes an effort to be palatable.
That concession to palatability mostly being that the majority of the people he indiscriminately shoots at in the course of handing over people to anyone who has a grievance and also money, or whenever really, are non human, and the humans he does kill tend to be imperials. and also that whenever he’s in a room with other bounty hunters he comes off better than them because they have no honor(tm). Normally I would maybe say it was bad faith to look at the aliens he killed when he first took Grogu, or the aliens he killed when he infiltrated that imperial facility and there were local “pirates” trying to destroy the explosives they were transporting (but not steal, despite being “pirates”)(knowing the locals were discontented with imperial presence), but when it’s in the text that he doesn’t think too hard about his work or his kills, and no vetting is involved, well.
This is less present in season three for Din, but Axe was much the same.
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short-wooloo · 6 months
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The fact that mandos didn't wipe themselves out from their in fighting and picking fights with their neighbors is bigger plot armor than beskar
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jedi-enthusiast · 9 months
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If I may ask : 1, 2, 9, 10 and 13 for the choose violence game
Choose Violence Ask Game
Obligatory Disclaimer: These are just my personal opinions, feel free to disagree but if you're gonna be hateful, rude, or anti-Jedi then just block me and move on instead of posting your bullshit on my page. Like what you like, hate what you hate, but leave me out of it.
Oh you can absolutely ask!
1 - The character everyone gets wrong...
Padme Amidala---I can explain this, but if I do then it's gonna be one of my long ass essay posts.
2 - A compelling argument for why your fav would never top/bottom...
Ok, this isn't necessarily an answer to the question, but my fav is Obi-Wan and I HC that he's a switch. So instead of getting an argument on whether he'd top or bottom, you're getting an argument on what type of partner he is.
No one can convince me that Obi-Wan is not a service top/bottom, no matter which one he is. Obi-Wan cares a lot about the people he loves and wants to help them/do things for them. So it makes sense to me that when he's sleeping with someone his own enjoyment isn't the point, he wants to make his partner feel good and have a good time, even if he won't necessarily derive any pleasure from it himself. Making his partner feel good is the point.
9 - Worst part of canon...
The whitewashing of the clones in the animated shows!
Like dear god, make them actually look like Temuera Morrison!
If they can animate all sorts of weird alien designs, they can animate POC characters.
AND THEY'RE FUCKING CLONES FFS, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'D HAVE TO MAKE A MILLION NEW DESIGNS, JUST ONE NEW DESIGN THAT THEY REPLICATE AND TWEAK AS NECESSARY!
10 - Worst part of fanon...
I know I've said the anti-Jedi stuff a million times, so I'm gonna pick a kind-of different answer to try and keep things interesting.
I really hate the fanon version of Mandalorians where people basically just glorify their violence, take a bunch of stuff from the Jedi and apply it to them, ignore literally anything bad about them, and then lift them up as this "amazing utopian group of equality, equity, and good will" when...that's not really what they are. Especially when people do it to bash the Jedi.
13 - Worst blorboification...
I'll give you guys three guesses, and the first two don't count.
(It's Anakin, I know, I'm predictable)
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sticks-and-souls · 1 year
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I really hope Din gets to Sundari and finds the evidence that Bo Katan was a fucking founding member of the resurgence of Death Watch and played a direct role in handing Mandalore over to Darth Maul, and I hope they call the episode The Mandalorian and the Audacity of This Bitch.
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antianakin · 3 months
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The thing that's extra funny about the Ahsoka show refusing to acknowledge Sabine as a Mandalorian is that this is probably the MOST Mandalorian Sabine has ever acted. Like the selfishness, the stupidity, the bratty arrogant attitude? That's all PEAK Mandalorian behavior and personality traits and Sabine is exhibiting ALL OF THEM in a way she never has before. Like this show wants me to forget Sabine is a Mandalorian so so badly but they're making it impossible to do so when everything about her is SCREAMING that she's a Mandalorian in all of the worst possible ways.
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godempworm · 7 months
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Well, that explains a lot a man who only a handful of episodes of Rebels believes he’s the most knowledgeable on Rebel characters
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And here’s the link to the article
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cosmicluci · 1 year
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Bo and the Armorer have some absolutely, delisciously, queer tension in those few brief scenes of theirs.
And Bo has long been Mandalorian Queen of Lesbians.
So here's Mandalorian lesbians in power, an idea that just does things to me.
As a little side note... I also really don't like the idea of Bo with Din. For one because of how many hetero couples we already have (and how bad most are) in Star Wars, but also because the two of them just act like cool combat bros.
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