#atla is great! why is there even a need to make a live action show ab it when it will very obviously

[pianapplez]

I'm so tired of shows that absolutely ignore the source material and feel like they straight up don't understand what's important about it, just make a different show why even bother at this point.

#pjo tv crit #atla #atla netflix #pjo #Stop it!!!!! im tired!!! #yes i am talking specifically about the pjo show and the atla live action remake #atla is great! why is there even a need to make a live action show ab it when it will very obviously #take away all the suspension of belief or disbelief idk what it's called #but basically it's gonna be a lot harder to sell a world so full of magic like that when it all looks realistic bc we /know/ water #doesnt do that etc etc #especially if the costuming and the backgrounds look cheap/very cgi-ed #just leave it! dont touch it just stop!!!! #not even gonna talk about the pjo show rick just straight up lied to us lmao #and the worst part is. im not even mad that it's not book accurate bc as long as it captures the feeling and the vibes! then i dont care! #but it absolutely does not. idk what got lost in translation tbh

[wileycap]

Hi! I really want to hear your opinion about Agni Kai in Atla LA and why it's bad thematically. Thank you!

Hi! I've never been asked anything before!

Alright, so - spoilers. Also, sorry that this is so long.

In the original, Zuko does not fight back, and that's so important. It's clear that the Fire Nation has great respect for hierarchy, whether it be elders, leaders or superior officers. Ozai is the ultimate hierarchical superior to Zuko: his father, his superior as a royal, and - of course - the leader of the entire nation.

In the Agni Kai, Ozai repeatedly orders Zuko to fight for his honor, and Zuko refuses. He remains prostrate, and reaffirms his respect for his father. In the context of this hierarchical culture, he is doing everything right in the face of an order that, to him, is the ultimate paradox. And that's what earns him his scar. A disfiguring, dishonoring brand.

He gets burned because he wants so badly to do everything right. He gets burned because he wants to show respect. He gets burned because, in a cultural context, he is behaving as he should. Because his father is cruel.

But it's not just that: it also serves as a shorthand to the audience that the Fire Nation under Ozai and his forefathers is wrong, to the point that Zuko, the dutiful son, literally cannot do right under that system. And you don't need to do a deep dive into what the culture is presented as to get that - it immediately strikes the audience with a profound sense of unfairness. It efficiently communicates that the Fire Nation is rotten, that the system itself has become corrupted and distorted.

And this sets up Zuko's entire arc. He did right, and he got punished. At the end of S2, he does wrong, and he gets rewarded, but the reward isn't fulfilling to him, because everything he could ever earn under that system is tainted and his experiences outside the system have shown him that, even if he can't accept it at first. And it's so narratively satisfying to watch him then defy his father, who tries to punish him again with lightning, only for him to now be able to literally turn it back (with Iroh's technique, Iroh being one of the few sources of unconditional love in his life!). He then redefines his relationship with Firebending itself, going back to the original source of it. He literally rids himself of the corruption of his nation.

It forms such a tight narrative arc, and it sets up so much about the Fire Nation with no need for explanation. Even his interactions with Iroh also tske on a new light: he's intentionally disrespecting his uncle - another elder and superior, as well as a father figure - and Iroh never punishes him for it. Ultimately, that unconditional love and support leads him to reform his nation.

In the Live Action, Ozai orders him to fight back, and he does. He even has a chance to strike Ozai, but doesn't, prompting Ozai to remark that "compassion is a weakness" before he burns Zuko. Which was never the point of Zuko's arc. It waters down his entire primary character conflict, because if his takeaway is that he lost a fight because he was too kind, then the only thing that needs to happen is for him to get some kind of narrative payoff by being kind. Wow, arc over. It becomes this surface level morality tale about how compassion isn't weakness.

In the LA, he also gets multiple chances to speak out at the war meeting. He questions the plan, the general and Ozai lay out actual, sensible reasons for why the plan has to proceed as it is, and then Zuko says that it's a terrible plan anyways. In the original, he speaks out once, and his words even make it clear that he's speaking out because the soldiers "love and defend our nation." His objection is the mildest possible form of objection: he isn't questioning the system, in fact, he's reinforcing it by appealing to the virtue of these soldiers. And he still gets punished.

With all that and Iroh explicitly calling out Ozai multiple times in the LA, we don't get the sense that the Fire Nation culture itself has been warped by imperialism. We just get the sense that the leader is a bad dude. And that's a far less powerful setup, and it will lead to a far less satisfying resolution.

It's an incredibly watered down version of the original, and lacks so much thematic weight.

#avatar the last airbender #atla #netflix atla #atla netflix #atla live action #atla spoilers #zuko #zuko's scar #prince zuko #fire nation #ozai #iroh #ask

[coffee-with-mint-syrup]

The case of live-action atla zutara.

First of all, the scarf scene. I won't be repeating myself, here are some main points - there was absolutely no reason for Zuko to act the way he did and for the scene to be shot this dramatically. Even if they did the shipbaiting in this scene - it means there's a ship which is much more than live-action kataang has at this point. Also I don't really think these guys are shipbaiting type but that's just the impression I got.

Then - the second obvious one - Oma and Shu's visuals. We have star-crossed lovers from two towns at war, basically the local equivalent of Romeo and Juliet (as in legendary lovers who are known above all for their love) wearing coincidentally colors that are primarily associated with two of our characters (who shared this dramatically shot scene in the previous episode).

And I know, it may seem so insignificant - but but but but! - you have to think about this. Of course there are creators, writers and showrunners that are unaware of some non-canon ships or don't care about them. But it's not the case for atla. No, creators of atla were so aware of zutara - they wrote a parody scene in a in-world trashy play to mock this fan pairing and it still proved absolutely nothing and just gave zutara more content. The creators and writers of this adaptation clearly had the discussion "what we should do with kataang" - because there is no trace of kataang in the 1st season. So it was a conscious decision to omit that - but where would the romantic subplot go? Well, I don't know, but they are showrunners, they most certainly discussed options. They are clearly very, very, very much aware of zutara. And they still do this? They still show us Oma and Shu wearing red and blue? All they had to do is to give at least one of them any different color. Any. But they didn't. (for fuck sake, it is the Earth Kingdom - yellow and green would do it)

There were zero, no, nada Kataang interactions, implications or those scenes that are filmed just a little bit too dramatically like the scarf one. I don't know, there's still a chance that they will wait for season 3 to make Aang's crush on Katara happen. I'm also not so sure what will happen to Aang failing to open seventh chakra, I mean - his love for Katara has a huge purpose in series, so it still doesn't look very good. But you can't even imagine how glad I am that they didn't do this secret tunnel thing. It was very uncomfortable.

So it was the more fact-based part of my case, let's get to the irrational, almost delusional part, tin foil hat probably needed.

Almost all the scenes Zuko and Katara shared in the first season kept reminding me of another famous enemies-to-lovers ship that actually became canon in the infamous final episode - Reylo, the way it was filmed in The Force Awakens. I mean - the first fight in the woods where she looses, the intensity of him staring at her, the final fight in snowy location where she kicks his ass and shows her mastering this superpower, him trying to talk to her during this fight and mentioning her learning/having to learn...Zuko calling Katara a peasant reminded me of this "Rey is no one" discourse. I don't know man, I haven't thought about The Force Awakens reylo for a very long time and it just kept popping in my head.

All of this - it's like a blueprint for enemies to lovers.

Also I actually think that the look they shared in the 2nd episode was also shot kinda weirdly and dramatically. It's not to the extent of the scarf scene but I do remember thinking that "why did they film it they way? it's too intense".

In the conclusion I'd like to say that as much as I like all the season 1 zutara stuff they left out in the adaptation - necklace subplot and implications, pirates and the famous "You rise with the moon, I rise with the sun" - I think I actually prefer the scarf scene. Yes, it would be so great to see those things in adaptation but in the end of the day they would still be just the things they kept from the original and probably noting more. Like the cabbages or the secret tunnel song or anything else, just things from the source material that implicate nothing. While the scarf scene, the Oma and Shu's clothes - it means they made a conscious decision to make it that way. It means they put some thought into that and some meaning. And this gives me hope there's a chance for Zutara in this adaptation.

P.S. I told about this my sister who hasn't watch the series yet and she said "I think people who made this show are just shipping zutara in secret". I do not necessarily imply she might be right - but creators of animated series (the very same people that made kataang canon, not zutara) DID leave because of some creative differences and because they couldn't control creative decision. Might as well be THAT kind of decision.

#finally got it all out of my system #this whole thing just screams: Coincidence? I think NOT! #but seriously #can we have this one? #zutara #avatar the last airbender #atla #atla spoilers #netflix atla

[tzilatza]

NATLA Review - spoilers

Woke up today still feeling annoyed after finished the Netflix ATLA remake last night, and I think I've figured out the core reason.

It's the fact that: If they had held truer to the original source material, we could have had a truly great show. I disagree with those calling it a complete disaster. The acting was good, great in some cases. The effects were very well done, the bending looked about as good as it can in a live action media. The scenery was lovely.

But what happened in the writer's room?! The way they just reveal all the back stories up front EVERY TIME is honestly insulting to the audience. It's like they're so terrified that smartphone culture has made the public so accustomed to instant gratification that they have no faith we will stick around and keep watching if they make us wait for anything.

They're also clearly terrified of complexity. One of my biggest gripes with this remake is Jet's story. They completely took out his plans to murder a whole town of innocents in order to get a few enemy soldiers. Now, Jet isn't my favorite character, but his story is so important. Because it is real. The world is full of people who have been so brought down by injustice that they lose their sense of right and wrong, and we need to see that on screen. If Jet is too complex for them, how will they handle Ba Sing Se in the second season.

This goes along the same lines as removing Sokka's sexist moments. They felt they had to do it to make him more 'likable.' Yet the writers themselves went full sexist on Katara's character. They've taken out so much of her spark, her righteous and justified anger, and they've done it because even in 2024, people expect women to be more passive to be palatable. Enough people have already commented on them removing Aang's choice to run away. Heaven forbid the main character not be an absolute paragon. Did y'all notice that they even made Hahn likable? Hahn?! What reason do you have for making Hahn likable Netflix?! His role in the narrative is to be an example of toxic masculinity that is clearly the bad choice compared to Sokka who has learned and grown out of his own.

Don't even get me started with what they're doing with the fire nation family, I'm not ready to tackle that. In general, I have no problem with Azula getting a little more backstory and humanizing, but why season 1? Throwing in all these extra scenes just sacrifices screen-time where they could've actually fleshed out the real season one plots instead of rushing through things at breakneck pace. (ex: Aang escaping Zuko's ship in about 2 minutes flat)

At the end of the day, the scenes I most enjoyed were those that held true to the original like the Blue Spirit sequences. They could've easily done more of this, held onto the important plot points and even more important character complexity, while maturing it for an adult audience. I'm not disagreeing with every change they made. Go ahead and take out the silly Nickelodeon gags, add cussing and more realistic violence to get your mainstream viewers. Go ahead. They could've easily made a darker more mature version of the show and still held onto all the old fans in my opinion. But claiming that you're making a 'more mature' version and then removing the complexity and subtlety because they didn't think viewers could handle it...

What makes me most sad is that there are a lot of people who will experience ATLA for the first time through this show. There are a lot of adults who are not willing to watch original ATLA because they refuse to acknowledge an animated series can be anything other than a kid's show. Those people will watch this and think it's the real deal, and that just makes me sad.

If you've read this far, a very sincere thank you for listening to my rant. If you're an OG fan who enjoyed it, I have no problem with you. It was a fun watch, I was just hoping for more. If you are a new viewer who has never seen ATLA before, I sincerely want to hear your opinions. Is it a great show to someone who isn't holding it against the context of the original? And do you plan to watch the original now?

#natla #natla spoilers #live action atla #live action avatar #netflix avatar #netflix avatar review #avatar the last airbender #atla

[valhalla-awaitsfor-us]

Hi! I hope you don't mind I take your reply to my post to talk a little bit about script writing as a scriptwriter.

This is in no way an attack, I just saw an opportunity to explain something as someone who works writing scripts.

At this point I think it's becoming clear that live action only exists because Netflix wants to have its own Game of Thrones, but that they are not going to respect the core of the original series, because their goal is different. Having said this, I want to review why the changes that are being made are incorrect (if the idea is to respect the story and the characters) focusing on the 3 protagonists: Sokka, Katara and Aang.

Let's start with Sokka, whose changes are perhaps the most "controversial."

As I said in my original post, The core of Sokkas character is that he is a boy who grew up trying to be a man since his father left for war. In that attempt, as someone immature and unguided, he had sexist attitudes, only to later mature and become a real man. Great example for young boys.

No, his sexism comments didn't last long, but they changed at a key moment in the plot: When Suki appears. Avatar is a special series because it was one of the first of its time to so explicitly touch on the topic of feminism. Rebelling in every sense of the word is a recurring theme in ATLA. Sexism was literally knocked out of Sokka when he met the Kyoshi warriors. That's why the scene of him wearing the warriors' clothes is so significant and why it's so important that at the end of the season Sokka has learned his lesson, because there is a direct comparison between him and Pakku. Sokka, on his path to becoming a man, was able to deconstruct his misogynistic mentality at his young age and without an adult guidance, while a man of Paku's age, admired and respected, was still rooted in his sexist beliefs.

It was Katara's act of rebelling against Sokka's sexism that freed Aang from the icerberg. Because, again, an act of rebellion, of standing firm in the face of injustice, along with redemption, are the pillars of Avatar. Sokka's journey encompasses all of those topics, and the fact that he is 16 and not 19 is essential to his character arc.

Is not that we want him to be sexist. We want him to be flawed. Because each flaw are unique to each character. It talks about their development and also about the themes of the show.

Also "Toned down" it sounds weird because as a kid I always knew Sokka was an idiot when being sexist. But it wasn't that bad that I was afraid of him or so angry that I hated his character. Because Avatar is a kid shows even if people from all ages can enjoy it. So when they said "toned down" I was really confused. It made me feel that for them, the only way to show him being sexist way to make him do some unredeemable thing.

Katara

So. Im gonna start saying that Im not a fan of Katara. I think her character is written incredibly well, but it just not for me. In fact, i do feel like we needed an scene between Sokka and her where they can clear the air about their mom. The things she said to her brother and to Aang, the only survivor of a genocide, were too hard to not have a talk after that.

NOW, After saying that, Katara is Katara because of her backstory. Seeing her mother die in front of her and being the only waterbender in her tribe lead her to feel the need to take care of everyone, especially her brother, to be overprotective, to be compassionate. To be Katara.

Sokka himself admits that sometimes when he tries to remember his mother he only remembers Katara. While Aang is a boy who must mature faster than normal, Katara is a girl who has already grown faster than normal and her journey not only includes rebelling and protecting others, but also recovering some of that lost childhood.

Katara is the representation of water. Healing and destructive at the same time. Turbulent but benevolent. I feel the live action writers, and even the actors and actresses, do not understand that the feminist message was already perfectly captured in the original material. The creators of Avatar created complex female characters and just because Katara's story is influenced by the concept of motherhood does not mean that she is not a strong character. She is a strong character because her story is influenced by that concept. Not because motherhood in itself makes us women strong, but because motherhood, specifically for her character, puts her at crossroads and forces her to go through an arc of transformation.

Aang

I'm going to be concise and short with Aang. The decision to have so many "distractions" in his mission is because Aang is 12 years old and does not want to face a war. I think it's something so basic that it seems dumb not to understand that a young boy doesn't want the responsibility of saving the world and seeing his friends die again. I think, maybe, just maybe, understanding that is not that hard.

If they wanted to write a story of wars, blood and darkness, they should not have chosen Avatar, whose protagonist is a little boy.

#atla #avatar #aang #sokka #katara #netflix #aang the last airbender

[shadowed-dancer]

I watched the Netflix atla and I have thoughts

I will break them down into positives, negatives, and assorted, but if you want the short version: it's better than the M Night Shyamalan film.

Positives

I like that Zuko's crew is the 41st division. It's a cute detail, and honestly I had always wondered how they chose soldiers to accompany an exiled prince

I actually liked Suki's characterization. Like yeah, I believe that girl has never had contact with outsiders. And I think her chemistry with Sokka is great! I can't wait for her to come back and see more of the world (her "thank you for bringing the world to me" line is cute when you consider he brought her an air, water, and fire bender... less cute that her village almost got destroyed but still)

Hot take: I don’t mind that they cut Sokka’s sexism arc. It was minimal in the original series to begin with, and with the pacing of the Netflix series it would have been pointless and rushed. I truthfully believe that if they hadn't mentioned the cut beforehand, 5 people at most would have noticed it was gone

Wow Koh the Face Stealer is SO MUCH WORSE in live action. So gross. His face BLINKS. 10/10 to whoever designed that, I hated it and recognize that it was perfect. I look forward to seeing it in my nightmares (also I don't mind the change of "don't show any expression". It still works)

Gyatso telling Aang that it wasn't his fault and that he wouldn't have been able to do anything was so sweet and important to me, especially with all the other adults in this series being turned into Grade-A assholes. It’s been a while since I watched the entire original series but were the adults THIS mean about it in the original? I know the occasional random townsperson would say "you abandoned us" but I don’t remember people like Bumi or THE OTHER AVATARS blaming him like that (I know this is the positive section but just to be clear, the positive is the Gyatso scene. Turning everyone else so mean will be touched upon in the negatives)

All of Gyatso's scenes were actually amazing. I cried. Also finding his body hit so much harder in live action.

Leaves from the Vine playing during Lu Ten's funeral and then again when Iroh chose to go with Zuko... I tearbended HARD at that one

I think they did a good job merging three story lines into Omashu. I know it may bother some fans, but for the time they had I thought combining all of those together within the city was clever. Plus, since we see the city get taken at the end of the season, we feel more invested since we spent more time there! (I'm also glad they didn't destroy the Northern Air Temple... that always bothered me)

The sets are lovely. They look so similar to the original show and it makes me happy to simply see these places come to life. I got so giddy seeing Omashu you don't even understand

I like the interpretation of Aang’s tattoo. That was actually the one thing I liked from the M Night Shyamalan film (intricate designs rather than a straight blue block) and I feel this is an even better interpretation (the designs are more subtle until he lights up)

The wink and nod to the great divide (and other episodes like the pirates) was cute. I do wish we got to see some adventures of the kids bonding, but boy am I glad they didn't feel the need to adapt the great divide

I liked that they sang secret tunnel a little early. The second the mechanist brought up the secret tunnels I burst into song on instinct, so it's only fair the characters do the same

I liked Zuko having a notebook on the avatars. Of course he would have made that. And I liked that Aang used it as a reference

I liked how they teased the "my cabbages!" line before giving us the real thing. Just a fun thing for fans of the original

Negatives

The first episode had so much exposition it actually felt exhausting. Also Zuko really came out of the gate swinging with his motivation, eh? No nuance or slowly unveiling why he wants to capture Aang? Ok...

Ozai confused me. After finishing the season I believe Ozai's motivation was "sacrifice the weak to become strong, use Zuko to fuel Azula to be better" but it felt so confusing to get there. There was a point where I thought he genuinely wanted to see Zuko grow and find the avatar, and while it's fine for Zuko to think that, it felt weird for us to be jerked around like that (especially the in-between point where it feels like he prefers his banished son to his spy-catching daughter).

I also don’t like the way he acts with Azula (again, I know it's an act, but it's a bothersome change). He calls her performance below average. What happened to "she’s a true prodigy, just like her grandfather for whom she was named"? When characters like Mai and Zhao have to tell us "he's just playing games" it feels like they are telling rather than showing. "She's a true prodigy" SHOWS US he has a very obvious favourite. "He's playing with you" TELLS US that he's lying, and we therefore need to just accept that Azula is actually his favourite even though nothing he has done supports that

I don’t like that Aang was heading North due to a premonition from Kyoshi. I always liked how "the avatar must travel the world and find their own teachers in order to care for the world". Why not let him look for teachers? It enforces the idea of the avatar needing to care for all nations in order to protect all nations. I feel like it was supposed to go for this new direction of “the avatar must do it alone” but unfortunately I don't like that message as much

I mentioned in the positive section, but so many of the characters are weirdly mean (specifically the adult characters). I feel like they are trying to go for a message like "childlike mentality isn’t bad and it’s this innocence that will succeed where adults failed" but it just comes across as every grownup but Gyatso being the worst. Why are Kyoshi and Kuruk yelling so much and blaming Aang for everything? I feel like the goal will ultimately be to prove them wrong, but I do not like this characterization

Zuko’s scar needed to be SO MUCH WORSE. Something I love about the original is that every time we look at Zuko, we get a horrific reminder of what kind of person the Fire Lord is. It didn't just make his skin a little red, his eye is stuck in a permanent squint. His ear is shrivelled. You can tell that it was BAD. Here? He could cover it with makeup if it bothers him that much. Where's the texture? Where's the ear and eye damage? Sometimes it looks more like a birthmark than a serious injury. At the very least, take away his eyebrow!

Sokka and Katara’s being trapped in the spirit world was lowkey a little dumb but I get what they were going for (it's more urgent than them needing to suck on frogs). It just makes it seem worse when Aang is sitting there chatting with Zuko about his brushes. Like I loved the conversation but the fact that Sokka and Katara's lives were in danger (along with the villagers) makes Aang seem weirdly dismissive in that moment

Also... I just realized while typing this, but did they give us an ending to Hei Bai being in pain? Did I completely forget the resolution to that or was it not shown?

I don't like that Zuko chose to fight in the Agni Kai. Seeing him on the ground begging forgiveness and THAT'S the kid Ozai scars and banishes is way more impactful than "he fought but didn't go all out"

This shit went off the rails in episode 7. Why is Yue a fox who just chills in the spirit world? What happened to Tui and La? Push and pull? Yin and Yang? I got confused somewhere along the way

Am I the only one who felt the Yue and Sokka kiss came out of nowhere? She literally said she called off her betrothal when she was 16 (before meeting Sokka) because that dude wasn't the right guy. But then the kiss immediately after implies Sokka is the right guy??? The guy you didn't know existed??? Or are we supposed to infer that she fell in love with him in the spirit world? Either one is so bad pleasssseee

I infinitely prefer Zuko trying to save Zhao and Zhao choosing to die out of sheer stubbornness, compared to Iroh killing Zhao to save Zuko. Like yeah, he'd do anything for Zuko, but I felt that crossed a line (and was less impactful)

Assorted Thoughts

They mentioned the mother of faces, are we gonna see Zuko’s mom get addressed at some point? Or was that just a wink and a nod for fans who know?

The kids are pretty good actors but Katara’s sometimes feels like she's… in a school play. For lack of a better description. She's not bad, it just doesn't always feel natural or as expressive as she could be

Yue's actress on the other hand... look I don't like insulting child actors but her performance was not my favourite

Meanwhile, I loved the casting for Zuko and Aang. I like this slightly-less-angry Zuko, and Aang's actor has such a sweet face that it hurt me to see him sad

I wish we got to see an Agni Kai between Zuko and Zhao. Simply because establishing it early helps introduce us to this idea. It makes it more impactful when Ozai declares Zuko must fight, since we now know what that entails

I feel like the series is at its best when it's doing it’s own thing (the Gyatso scenes, Suki's new characterization, Lu Ten's funeral) and is at its weakest when it's trying to copy the original

#atla #atla live action #natla #zuko #aang #sokka #katara #azula

[asocial-inkblot]

Things I Hope/d to See in the New ATLA Live Action Show

A source material-accurate Azula (duh) and Aang (the show's namesake!) with something extra added to both. See #7 and #8 for more on that.

Tweaked war-related plans that come across like they could reasonably be implemented in real life and which may be based on/allude to actual battle proposals from throughout history. I know little about these sorts of things but others have pointed out before that one of Sokka's plans, for example, may not have actually made much sense. And Ozai's plan near the end? Yeeaaahhhhh... I mean, I kinda get it in hindsight. But still. Let's have him come up with something better than that.

Appearances and clothing that call back to the ethnic groups and cultures that the show takes inspiration from (things are looking great on this front so far), but also

Eye colors like the ones from the original cartoon. This may seem petty but I find that it's actually important to use the right hues for each character and not just make everyone's eyes brown or black or gray (looks to me like that's exactly what they did). The reason being that, although I personally tend to dislike when non-white characters are given what I now call "white qualifiers" (meaning traits often used to make them still appeal to whiteness, such as light hair, light eyes, bone-straight hair, round eyes, etc.), in the context of the show, the eye colors are actually by and large ethnic characteristics and differentiators themselves. As I've noted before in a previous post from a while back: Ocean blue eyes = Water Tribes, brown and gray = usually Air Nomad or Earth Kingdom, amber or light tan = Fire Nation, with few exceptions for all of them.

Enough similarities for it to feel like ATLA but with enough differences that it's actually its own story. Again, duh, but we all know how often adaptations tend to get this part wrong.

An age rating that won't be used as just another excuse to shoehorn in as much violence, gore and sexual content as possible but instead to allow for the full illustration of the impact that war can have on a people and their society/traditions. We saw, imo, only little hints of this throughout the cartoon (when Aang found Monk Gyatso's remains is one extremely devastating example), but not near enough. I know the reason why, of course. However, things like that only helped sell the show short by not allowing it to fully flesh out into a world with true, viewable consequences.

An Azula who, from day one, is unquestionably made out to be exactly what she is: A child soldier who is also a victim of the war in a similar way to how the Gaang is. I want to see her allowed to show worry, even fear, either during or after a situation. Not because I don't love how kickass she is, but because at her age, level of trauma and amount of risk to her life everyday, she has all the reason to be more stressed from the get-go. Not to mention her family issues. I want Azula to clearly have anxiety or depression, something many of us can relate to. I also want that scene of her mental breakdown to STAY in some capacity, but be seen in-universe and hopefully—eventually—irl, too, as what it really was: A teenage girl pushed to her limits until she had no where left to step. Real, living people have had anxiety/panic attacks and meltdowns before and that didn't make them evil or any less worthy of sympathy. It only makes it that much more obvious how real Azula herself is, and how much she needed and deserved understanding.

I want an Aang who's allowed to cry, not once, not twice but over and over again as the weight of the burden of what it means to be a child avatar during a world war—and one who was out-of-commission for a century—start to take their toll on his mind, body and eventually spirit. After he reaches his breaking point, I want him to learn to forgive himself and even forgive others, and come back from it, stronger than ever.

A Toph who's tough but maybe a little less...umm... She should be/feel affected by the war too, okay? And have some level of guilt, fear or self-awareness at all times. So she should be like her original self, but deeper.

More Ursa pleeeaaaaaaassse. We know next to nothing about this woman and what we do know, still involves a lot of inferring. I need to know just what her beliefs were about the war and her family/relatives. I need to know if she...if she often feared for her or her children's lives!

A little less romance and a little more danger, planning and large platonic relationship growth as well as character growth.

Zuko actually learning something from his travels; early on, every time he meets someone/some new people, and on a regular basis. I also kinda want to see him have consequences for his actions. Not just that one time, where he was only a clueless 13 year old boy anyway. Doesn't have to be huge or bloody, but he needs to lose something every time he gains at the expense of another. The ATLA world (if not within the cartoon then definitely within the live action show) should have a real, tangible concept of Karma present, if it doesn't already. That would make so. much. sense.

If possible, a little more fleshing out of characters like Jet and the Freedom Fighters, Suki and the Kyoshi Warriors, Hama, Mai, Ty Lee, etc. And can we not demonize or shrug off victims anymore?

A still sexy Hakoda, Ozai and June. (I'm so sorry, don't hate me...)

An ending that won't make me break out in hives plez.

(That's it for now. I may come back here to add more.)

#ATLA #ATLA live action #Azula #Aang #Ozai #Ursa #Toph #Zuko #Jet #Hama #Mai #Ty Lee #Suki #Sokka #Katara #atla live action show #Avatar Netflix #Netflix Avatar #Netflix ATLA #Water Tribe #Earth Kingdom #Fire Nation #Air Nomads #Water TribeS #Avatar the Last Airbender #Avatar: The Last Airbender #Avatar the Legend of Aang #Avatar: The Legend of Aang #hopes and/or predictions #atla-recluse's tags

[finisnihil]

Heyo ATLA fan over here I keep seeing people praise the live action remake for being darker than the original and citing that the original cant be darker because it's animated and. I have thoughts on this.

The original ATLA couldn't get super gore type dark because of its RATING not its MEDIUM, it was being produced by a kid's channel. Animated media CAN be dark and NO i'm not talking about "adult cartoons". Look at shows like Blue Eye Samurai. Any DC animated movie. Animation is constantly associated with being childish just because its most often used in children's media and I mostly blame Disney for that because Disney is my arch-enemy.

Regardless, ATLA IS STILL DARK. IT'S STILL SUPER FUCKING DARK. The entire plot of the show and it’s themes center around really heavy topics like war, genocide, the rewriting of history, child abuse, oppression, deconstructing societal roles, the place of mercy in extreme circumstances, redemption, death and grief, trauma, and so so so much more ATLA was never subtle about its themes it just communicated them in a way that wasn’t overtly gore based and didn't have cussing.

Hell just look at Kyoshi she's literally documented as being ruthless in her persuit of peace, a foil to Aang and his ideals, and when you read her spin-off books you see why. Her childhood friend and crush who was raised under the false belief that he was the Avatar was fucking sacrificed in front of her face and later came back as a shambling husk of his former self that she had to put down like a rabid dog. She survived getting hit with lightning by a crime lord. She spent her early days as Avatar being hunted down by a man who raised her, who’s nickname was the Gravedigger because he buried his enemies alive after making them dig their own graves. That’s not even the full of it either. Kyoshi NEEDED to become ruthless to survive and you see that mindset in the Kyoshi Warriors and the Dai Li because those two groups are her legacy, she trained them, the darkness of her life bled over into that worldbuilding. When Aang asks her advice about Ozai she tells him to kill the bastard no questions asked because in her time hesitation on such things as mercy over justice is what got you killed.

I have so many thoughts about ATLA and it feels like many people miss the point. ATLA did not need to be given a “darker” medium to excel because it already excelled in its original one because live action is not adult media and animation is not child media and from what i’ve heard about the series it feels like the show forgot this is a story of children growing up in a hostile world that rests it’s fate on their shoulders.

The tone of the original show was childish despite it's incredibly dark themes and content because we were seeing the world through the eyes of Aang, Katara, and Sokka and later, Toph. Toph and Zuko's perspectives are way more jaded and darker because that's how they see the world and it's around when they become more involved we start seeing things with more weight than before. We don't need the show to be darker to be greater, it was great as it was because it was build on dark themes but did not let itself become drowned in them.

#Finis Analyzes #Nihil Dreams #Wow this is in both my personal and analysis tag #avatar the last airbender #atla

[royallpetrichor]

Okay so I haven't posted in like 12 years and I know I'm like a week late, but what's everyone's thoughts on the live-action ATLA teaser? I'm genuinely very interested to know, because I certainly have thoughts, and I've definitely seen some polarised opinions. What do you like about it, and are you worried about anything?

Anyway, my long personal thoughts are below the keep reading line. I probably haven't said anything super new, or any hot takes but they're there.

First, what I loved about the teaser. It looked visually stunning! The shot composition all looked amazing (to someone who knows nothing about film), the visual tone was definitely there, and the set design was gorgeous! The entire time I was just going "oh my god, oh my god, oh my god" but in a good way. The characters especially look great. In particular, I loved Suki, Aang, and Zuko. I know some people were disappointed with how the characters looked, but I really think it's the best we could have gotten considering the wide disconnect between animation and live-action, and I think it's something people need to remember.

The acting obviously hasn't been shown very much, so it's still up in the air in that regard. I've been trying to convince myself I'm cautiously optimistic, but quite honestly I've gone straight to pure excitement, despite my worries.

We're also getting more flashbacks, as shown by the fact there's a scene of the Air Nomad genocide. More worldbuilding and backstory is definitely something I'm very happy about, so I'm excited to see where it goes. The thing that stumps me on it is whether they're going to do it well. In the film that shall not be named, Shyamalan put references to the original show everywhere, but he never took the time to understand why they worked. It was like he wanted us to say "Wow! They said the thing!!!!!" as if we'd clap at the screen without actually thinking about anything. I'm really, really hoping that's not the case here.

The tone is definitely something that people are concerned about, myself included. The teaser was very serious and dramatic. Of course, the show has those moments but it's overall very lighthearted. It's a show about friendship first and foremost, and those positive messages are highlighted throughout the series. I'm hoping this teaser is more Netflix saying "Look at these cool effects!" and less "This is the overall tone of the entire series!".

The humour also comes to play in this. ATLA has a lot of jokes. You know this, I know this, they work, I don't have to talk about it. I'm curious about the humor in the live-action series because a lot of the humour in ATLA works because the show is animated, and wouldn't work in the live-action setting. In the film that shall not be named, Shyamalan tried to take jokes from the show, but they just fell completely flat because it was the completely wrong genre and just created tonal dissonance.

The last big thing I'm worried about is the characters, particularly Katara and Zuko.

I'm worried about Katara, because film has had this tendency in the past (and I know this is probably outdated) to "tone down" a female character's more "unsavoury/unladylike" traits. This is a bad example but it's the best my brain can come up with, but Hermione in the HP films compared to the books. In the films she was smart, brave, never wrong, and never made fun of. In the books, she was smart, yes, but also naive, and really mean and judgy sometimes.

Katara is a strong female character because she's not perfect. She's hotheaded and can hold a mean grudge, but those make her who she is. Also, in the film that does not exist, other character's strong moments are inexplicably given to Katara to make her more "badass" without actually putting in the work for her.

I'm worried about Zuko for an entirely different reason. I'm scared they'll "tone back" his assholeness in the first season, and possibly even give us his backstory a lot sooner. I really don't want this, because the whole reason his redemption arc works is because he was a villain first. He did bad things, but he atoned for them. His backstory explains his actions but doesn't excuse them. If we're sympathetic to him too early, the payoff is going to feel a lot cheaper, and like he didn't actually work to make himself better because he was already there.

Okay wow that was a lot, but that sums up all of my thoughts/concerns/excitement for the show. I'm really stoked to see where they go with it, and even if it's a disaster I'll probably enjoy it anyway honestly.

#atla #avatar #avatar the last airbender #avatar live action #avatar the last airbender live action #zuko #aang #sokka #katara #toph #suki

[quietmonologues]

I haven't finished the show yet (just need to watch the last episode) but so far, I'll give the live action adaptation of ATLA a 7/10.

Long post.

To start with what I like about it...

I think the VFX is spectacular. Omashu, the Water Tribes, the Fire Nation palace, all the bending effects and fights are stunning.

Seeing all the characters come to life. The Gaang, but also the past avatars, the mechanist and Teo, the freedom fighters, Bumi, Zuko and the family, even Mai and Ty Lee. Aesthetically, everyone fit really well.

I enjoy (most) of the acting, but especially Zuko. I feel like Dallas captures the character incredibly well and his scenes with Paul as Iroh have been very fun to watch. I enjoy seeing more of Azula and getting into her psyche early on, and seeing more of Ozai has been enjoyable as well. Daniel Dae Kim is great. Ian and Gordan also do a great job of playing Sokka and Aang, respectively.

Merging the Jet stuff with the Mechanist stuff is an interesting way to cram as much of the story as possible without being too convoluted. The re-interpretation of The Cave of Two Lovers episode was a change I was iffy about but I grew to appreciate it. Instead of focusing on a romantic love, I liked that it was about familial love (between Sokka and Katara). I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't like that change, and I understand, but I didn't mind it. It didn't feel like the live action was hinting at Aang's crush on Katara anyways (correct me if I'm wrong).

Love the emotional aspects. Iroh and Zuko, Aang and Gyatso...it can definitely get the waterworks going.

In terms of what I don't like....

Something feels missing in this adaptation, and I think it's the tone. There's still funny moments but it's definitely a bit more somber than the cartoon. On the one hand, the original show does deal with heavy themes and it makes sense for the live action to emphasize that seriousness. Like, it made sense for a cartoon geared towards children to have a "lightness" to it, to have moments of goofiness and sillyness. But on the other hand, that lightness being interspersed between all the serious moments made the story of ATLA what it was, and I do feel that that is missing in the live action. I guess that's the downside to limiting a 20+ episode season into just....8 episodes. But the live action did the best it could.

I feel the same about the characters. The Gaang seem a bit more serious. But it's not completely bad, Aang still feels like Aang and Sokka still feels like Sokka. Katara is the one who sticks out to me like a sore thumb because she just...doesn't feel like Katara. No idea if it's Kiawentiio's acting or how she's written, but whenever I watch her, she just feels really flat and demure. Katara is a kind and compassionate character, but I do remember her being a bit more fierce. We do get that fierceness near the end but...I don't know, it comes off as stiff. And that's why I think Dallas as Zuko is my favourite, because Zuko was always a serious and somber character in the cartoon, so his performance in the more serious live action adaptation fits really well (it still would've fit perfectly if the adaptation was more goofy of course).

The pacing at times is bumpy. I felt this especially in episode 4. There was just...way too many things going on and they decided to throw in a couple flashbacks too. Like I said before, I liked that we got more Azula, but I felt like some of her scenes didn't flow well with the rest of the episode (episode 6 i think). We were following a straightforward plot, and then we just have a scene or two of Azula doing her trials and shooting lightning. It just made the overall episode feel choppy and disconnected.

I don't remember how the whole Suki/Sokka/Yue thing went in the cartoon, but yes I do think it's very weird that Sokka and Suki kissed in episode 2, and then he's kissing Yue in episode 7. Maybe in the cartoon it wouldn't be "that deep" but in a live action, it's kinda strange to me lol. I don't know, that's a bit of a minor nitpick I guess.

To me, Book 1 of the original show is the weakest season and my least favourite (it's still good). But if Netflix renews this, then I'm hoping Book 2 (and Book 3) will be much better!

Okay that's it, off to watch the last episode.

(also I do think you're lying if you say the movie was better)

#just my thoughts and opinions #avatar the last airbender #atla #atla live action #atla spoilers #atla netflix #my posts

[talkingperfectly-loud]

Okay! So, I’ve finally watched the Netflix Live Action ATLA and gathered my thoughts! Spoilers under the cut…

Overall score: 7/10

Overall thoughts: I was actually pleased! I wasn’t going in expecting it to be like the original series, and I was really excited to see how they would tell the story, what they would keep, and what they would change. I think that they did a great creative job melding a bunch of story lines together in a way that made sense, but, on a negative note, they did miss some key character beats that ranged from baffling to unforgivable. I loved this cast, and I think they all embodied their characters so well (Dallas Lui as Zuko?!? Hello?! *Chef’s kiss*). Deliveries were a bit stilted (to be expected with young actors just starting out), but I actually found it endearing, and they’ll only get better with practice. The bending wasn’t nearly as punchy or fun to watch in live action (especially the water bending. Oof), but it was leaps and bounds better than the Movie That Must Not Be Named. Below are the major takeaways:

Things I disliked

- Making the discovery and freeing of Aang completely passive. In the animated show, this was brought about BY Katara and Sokka. Their characters and their bickering, which caused Kataras rage, which caused her to waterbend, which caused her to free Aang. In the live action, it just… happens? Randomly? Nothing caused it, and it was a much weaker moment because of it.

- They took away Zuko’s crucial moments of mercy. Yes, they have him save the 41st, and yes, they have him hesitate during his Agni Kai with Ozai… BUT he was about to burn Katara on Kyoshi island? When she was down and unarmed?? At the North Pole, he was about to burn Zhao, who was also down and unarmed?? Absolutely not. No. No way. He wouldn’t even burn Zhao in the original show, because he knows what it’s like to be burned and despite his rage, he is a good person. There is absolutely no way he would be willing to harm someone who is unarmed.

- Sokka not explicitly asking Suki to train him. We NEEDED to see that humility where he asks for their help, not just him staring wistfully through the door and her taking pity. Humble him!!!!

- Sokka not being involved in the Jet storyline. I know that Katara is more obviously the choice to get involved here (love interest, etc), but Sokka and Jet are foils! They are both young men tasked with protecting people they love. Not having Sokka’s moment where his skepticism and independence saves the day is such a loss for his character. This could have even been kept in the Omashu storyline, with Sokka evacuating a building before a bomb goes off, etc.

- Why the literal heck did Bumi himself come to the front of the palace to receive the inventions from Sai?? What the hell even was that scene??

- Cutting the Haru storyline. This episode is crucial for Katara, who has WAY too little to do in this show, tbh. Her rallying the earth kingdom prisoners, and encouraging them to fight back is so so so important. I think they tried to move this to the Northern Water tribe storyline (when she rallies the women) but we don’t SEE it!! It happens offscreen!!!!

- Minor, but the blue spirit mask looked kinda dumb. I wish they had taken inspiration from real kabuki masks and made it more scary.

- I personally feel that Ozai is TOO personable in this adaptation. I’m guessing Daniel Dae Kim probably had a lot of say over the portrayal of this character, but I don’t think they made him dark enough. Ozai is cruel and that is CRUCIAL. He is abusive and manipulative, and hateful. Framing Zuko’s banishment and mutilation as if these were deliberate “learning moments,” rather than cruel, unjustifiable abuse is character assassination.

- Azula isn’t Azula. No shade to the actress, but the script has her written as a hot-headed, temperamental teenager desperate to prove herself. That’s ZUKO! Azula should be able to make grown men per their pants. Do her bidding. She can command armies. She never lets you see her weaknesses or her walls. She is cold, calculating, and terrifying. She is 13 steps ahead of you. Live action Azula loses her temper during a fight, talks back to Ozai (?!?!), and whines to Mai and Ty Lee about her frustrations. That’s not Azula.

- The “ice moon” thing at the North Pole? Why? Why aren’t there any spirits in this world? There’s no need to change that.

- Zhao’s death!?! What the hell was that!?!? No no no no no. Absolutely awful in every possible way. Where was his karmic justice?!? Why introduce the Fog of Lost Souls if you weren’t going to show Zhao getting pulled down into it?!? Where was Zuko, offering him mercy, despite everything? Where was Zhao’s pride, refusing his hand?? Furthermore, you make Iroh of all people a murderer?!? Fine, you could have him intervene and push Zhao into the water like he pushed him down after the Agni Kai in the original series. But to kill him?? Unprompted?! In cold blood?! Zhao wasn’t even his opponent!! Horrifying and disturbing. Unforgivable.

Things I loved

- The order of events. I actually love starting 100 years in the past and not making it clear what is about to happen. I also love that it isn’t clear just how long Aang has been asleep for! I love love love that dramatic irony if you know, and the reveal if you don’t.

- Aang stealing Zuko’s notebook. Finally, it’s explained how the gaang knew Zuko’s name lol

- Aang & Iroh meeting and chatting on the ship when he’s captured! It’s such a small scene, but felt so reminiscent of their conversation from Book 2 that it made me happy.

- Suki being so awkward!! Yes girl!! You have clearly never flirted before and it is obvious! I also loved having her mother be the matriarch of the village. Makes total sense tbh.

- Fleshing out Omashu! I love that they combined Jet & the Mechanist here. It makes Omashu feel more real, and it’s a natural place to put these storylines. I think this was really well done. Also bringing Iroh & Zuko into the story here was seamless, and worked to further both their characters (Zuko choosing Iroh over Aang, Iroh sacrificing himself to save Zuko)

- Having Bumi be an angry old man. This is controversial, but if we put aside Legend of Korra for a second where canon says Aang and him stay bffs, this actually makes a lot of sense. It’s not fair that Aang got to be asleep for 100 years. Bumi, as he said, had to struggle and suffer during that entire time. I’m glad that not everyone is like “it’s okay, it’s not your fault” because it kind of is!! I’m glad they had someone to actually hold him accountable a bit!

- Aang and Zuko connecting during the Blue Spirit episode. Aang making Zuko smile! Them joking! Them feeling pity for each other! The star-crossed friendship of it all! Gorgeous, gorgeous scene.

- Expanding on the theme of friendship vs. isolation. It’s such a key theme in the animated series that flies under the radar, and I really like how they took it and seemed to run with it.

- Azula collaborating with Zhao. It makes so much sense, since Zhao is just some rando tbh?It sets up both the Dai Li storyline and sibling rivalry nicely in season 2.

- Having Zuko’s crew be the division he saved?!?! A stroke of absolute genius.

- No Kataang!! I’m so sorry, but I honestly always felt that any romance in the original series was gratuitous, odd, and oh so Western. This is a story about children at war. I’m glad the romance is taking a back seat.

- Having Pakku see Katara for HER, rather than for her grandmother!! I always hated that in the original show! She fights her damn heart out and he still won’t train her UNTIL he sees her grandmother’s necklace. It always felt like the age-old blight of men not being able to care about a woman unless they have, or can image having, a personal connection to them (What if that was your mother, daughter, etc). I LOVE this change.

- Katara rallying the other women!! Pulling up everyone!! This is such an obvious change I can’t believe they didn’t have this in the original show. As I said, though, I do wish we saw her speech to them. That’s such an important character moment.

#natla #atla #atla live action #atla netflix

[highfantasy-soul]

NATLA - Episode 1: Aang (1/4)

[Masterlist of my NATLA thoughts]

An explanation of what I'm doing here and my history with ATLA.

Of course, full spoilers ahead.

Next>

A word on the expositional dialogue:

That's always going to happen when you're being introduced to a fantasy world - it happened a lot in the cartoon, too. The viewer has no idea the political landscape, the rules of the world, magic system, governmental bodies, religion, how close or far the 'gods' are to mortals - and as shows usually don't have much world-building narration in them, dialogue is used to supplement that. I think people forget that and just automatically assume expositional dialogue is 'bad' when it's really not, we've just had the advice 'show don't tell' twisted and bastardized so terribly that we now have a visceral reaction to any 'telling' through dialogue even if it's totally normal storytelling.

Lets also not forget that a whole expositional monologue is given every 20 minutes in the animated version, so let's not pretend that being explicit about the narrative is something that needs to be avoided. You listened to Katara talk about Aang needing to learn all the elements and defeat the Fire Nation 61 times. I think the live-action can say it at least 3.

The show begins by showing some of the magic (bending) and clarifies this for new viewers with the dialogue "An earthbender!" from one of the fire-wielding men. This bit of dialogue is clarifying as it puts limits on the magic and lets new viewers know that that dude probably can only use earth magic - so the viewer isn't sitting there thinking 'why doesn't that dude throw some fire, too instead of just rocks?' or 'Why isn't he teleporting away?'

Also, it lets us know that having an earthbender there wasn't expected - the guard's tone lets us know that it's an unwelcome presence there.

The opening scene shows us a great look at the difference in bending styles - earth is slower, but more directly powerful - fire is quicker, but less forceful. Get hit with flying rocks, you're down and unlikely to get up - get hit with a firebolt, you'll get knocked, but there's not much blunt force trauma in it (fire/force damage vs bludgeoning damage in dnd terms)

Sozin explaining his plan fills 2 roles: characterization in that he likes to taunt his victims and he's overly confident, very sure of his importance and 'rightness'; and it lets the audience know what the political landscape of the world is like at the moment and how underhanded the Fire Nation is willing to be to win.

The redirection of focus from the Air Nomads to the Earth Kingdom is mirrored in the finale where the siege of the north drew eyes (we will assume other nations noticed an armada of Fire Nation ships sailing onto Water Tribe territory) while Ozai's real goal was to overtake Omashu - where the Fire Nation was keeping the Avatar's eyes on the north as well so he didn't rush off to help the Earth Kingdom.

The Earth bender asking Sozin 'why are you doing this?' also displays how such an act of war is inconceivable at this point in history - he genuinely has no idea why one might want to start a world war.

If you know the cartoon, or just real life, you know the reasons people have, so this dialogue might seem like its pushing for exposition, but it, in and of itself, is showing worldbuilding in the fact that while we might think 'yeah, obviously the Fire Nation is the bad guy bent on world domination', the people of the world at the time were wholly unprepared for such a war to begin.

Starting with the fire nation plan/attack was a strong choice to set the stakes immediately

Kids don't really care too much about stakes - they care about jokes and fun characters. If you want to make a story that appeals across the spectrum immediately, stakes are good things to start out with.

When you're gearing toward much younger viewers and the show is episodic - just coming on the channel randomly - it keeps kid's attention better when you start out with strong characters that are easy to grasp (see the animated version), but when you're addressing even a slightly older audience and it's in a format where you have specifically set out to watch this particular story, you start with the world and stakes, usually doing that through some minor or side characters (see Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings).

This also allows new watchers to have the shocking reveal of Aang having been in the iceberg for 100 years at the same time Aang is learning this. There's no clear time jump from the Fire Nation's attack and Katara waterbending - so the new viewers don't know that's happened and the extra stakes shock really lands - it's not an eminent attack by the firenation, the war has already been going on and the fire nation is winning.

The time jump is hinted at with the wrecked ship Katara practices in, Katara saying fire nation soldiers haven't been seen in years, and when Gran Gran says Aang is an airbender (while he's still asleep), Sokka claims they haven't been seen in years.

These are all hints that there's been a time jump, but how significant of a jump isn't revealed until later - it could have just been 20 years for all we know so far

For those who watched the animated show, all this set up might feel tedious, unnecessary, or like the show is hand-holding the audience, but that's because you already know the story. For those who have never seen the animated show, all this is necessary - as shown by all the new watchers who are praising the exposition as it's a huge world. By the end of episode 1 of the live action, those who watched the animated would have heard the exposition 3 times already - by the end of the season, they'd have heard it 20 times - so you got the luxury of a lot of exposition, let the newbies get some too.

#atla spoilers #atla #natla #natla spoilers #natla episode 1 #avatar the last airbender #neflix avatar

[ohahsoka]

i'm trying to power through live action atla but struggling so much. are my expectations getting in the way, am i being too harsh on this show lol. it doesn't help i just finished rewatching the first season of the original cartoon and decided that, despite some flaws in handling the very serious topics of colonialism and genocide, it's pretty much a masterpiece.

there is no point in me even trying to describe my grievances. there are way too many of them, and i'm still not sure if i'm being reasonable or just a salty grump who didn't hear her favorite lines.

the problem is that there are so many instances in which they seem to intentionally subvert the source material, and most of these creative decisions are not justified by the medium change. this show reads as an edgy retelling of the cartoon that was deemed too simple or childish to translate well into live action. i genuinely think they lost the story's soul along the way.

additionally, dialogue and its delivery varies from mediocre to abysmal. like, it's so bad i can't make myself even hope it will somehow get better.

i'm about to finish episode two and kyoshi (where is roku?) is going off (calm down, lady) at aang for taking a stroll (he didn't run away lol) during the comet festival (sure) that airbenders apparently celebrated (why). she also yelled about the avatar being a mighty (okay) and merciless (what??) warrior. that’s a great viewpoint to present to the last survivor of the culture of non-warriors. why won't you scream about this some more, the guilt-ridden twelve-year-old cowering before you clearly needs that.

i'm assuming kyoshi's appearance is an adaptation of aang's talk with roku during the winter solstice. it's a universally loved episode, so, naturally, they decided to girlbossify it and make it a lot edgier by having kyoshi being really angry. compare it with how supportive and respectful roku was in the cartoon. he even asked if he could help aang with the threat outside before taking over his body. kyoshi just possessed him without a second thought, wanting to showcase the power of the avatar. because clearly, that's what aang's all about lol.

i’m kinda speechless?? i mean… most of the visuals are stunning and suki is very beautiful. there. i said something nice.

#atla #natla #natla crit #netflix avatar #avatar netflix #my thoughts #anti natla

[spamtonratiogeneral]

Proudly not watching NATLA. I don't really care what changes they made, whether it had been entirely the same or another hilarious fuck-up like the non-existent movie. Like whatever they did to fuck up the story I get if you're invested in the adaptation so fair enough

What I actually care about is the fact that it even exists at all. Even with the very rare cases where it actually brings something worthwhile to the work (I hear the Netflix One Piece is good? idk), why bother adapting animation to live action? Because nearly every time there is no artistic motivation to do so at all, merely the blatant cynicism and that sneering reduction of animation in the entertainment industry as just "the means of making cheap children's cartoons" that just refuses to fucking die already.

In general I find adaptation to rarely justify itself artistically, especially if the source material was really bloody good already. Of course great adaptations exist, sometimes from elevating/subverting it's source (or in the case of Starship Troopers for example, taking the everliving piss out of a pile of shit), sometimes merely by translating the work into a new medium that lead to interesting new avenues for expression and storytelling provided by the change in medium (and by this I mean wholly different mediums, like between book/videogame/film or show/play), or both.

Changing between live-action and animation as a means of making film/TV is not a big change in medium to provide entirely new storytelling opportunities, BUT 99% of the time, animation is more effective. Casting is never dependent on an actor's irl appearance, the method of animation can even be changed at any point to serve a function, animation (with sufficient time, resources and passion) allows total control over the entire visual presentation of the work. And by such total control over the presentation alone, suddenly you are open to an infinity of possibilities in choreography, character expression, visual comedy, tone, colour, environment etc. etc. You are no longer limited by what can be captured in physical reality on a screen in any one take. You are limited by what you can fit on a 2D screen.

What we call live action today in mainstream media is not really live action, it's in large part a corporate compromise to extend just past the financial and physical limitations of practical effects to achieve whatever the script needs the screen to do via CGI. Which is just 3D animation, but it's completely focused on adhering to a visual realism. Of course extremely good and thoughtfully presented live action works still exists; if it's filmed and/or presented thoughtfully and meticulously enough, then it can be similarly poignant as an excellent work of animation. But outside of like, auteurs, this does not usually happen.

This particular example is not from some troubled source material with lost potential or any severe caveats in visual presentation. This is fucking. ATLA. Like, the animation isn't as massively funded as a Disney Renaissance ig?? But for 2000s cartoons, it was insanely forward and completely holds up today, it's still cherished today. And ATLA in general was a masterpiece. It still IS a masterpiece!! It hasn't gone and fucking died in need of a replacement!!!

So there's just no way I can see it worth my time to dedicate my time to an inferior version of an awesome show that already exists.

It's just obvious that this show only exists so Nickelodeon can boost the profitability of [BRAND]. Love to the good honest crew and actors for the show, love that they're carrying out childhood dreams and getting to do promos with the original VAs and all. Wake me up when the animated ATLA films come out.

#atla #live action #animation #netflix avatar #avatar #the good one not the blue one

[destinygoldenstar]

Which Love Triangle Is Worse? (Ninjago Vs Total Drama)

Hey, this is called a sponsor, right? For advertising something? Why don’t we try it? For a book?

Destiny’s Burden. An original story by yours truly.

The world of Destiny takes place a century into the future, where Earth and all its morally questionable implications were wiped out for the sake of a utopia.

The beloved savior, Mary Sue, rescued everyone from extinction by creating a world system that would change all of humanity.

Destiny, from all the Chosen One stories you’ve heard, is the dominant force of society. Those who’ve praised Mary Sue have been granted a loving world of kingdoms with the clearest right and wrong, and lives of great fortune. Those who’ve rejected her ideals were cursed to become the Dark Lords, the villains and the black of the stories that would come.

When certain children come of age, they are granted a destiny of their own, abilities of a Chosen One, and given clear stories for them to follow and train for. Stories that would bring peace to their wonderful world, against the Dark Lords who dare to try and change it.

A generation of Chosen Ones begins with Charlie Sue, the descendent of Mary Sue herself, being assigned the task of becoming the savior of the entire land after a group of Dark Lords steal power.

With the help of a few Chosen One friends, Charlie must train for the day he claims his place as Destiny’s savior.

And if Destiny really is that pleasing of a utopia.

An original fantasy action story by yours truly. Questions are free to be asked in messaging me, and followers of my blog will, in time, get a chance to beta read parts of the story and give much needed feedback to make this a great passion project. More info coming soon.

Now, onto the post.

You know, this was easier to decide than I thought.

I know, it didn’t sound like it would at first.

Okay, lets think of a better intro...

Both of these cartoons means quite a bit to me. 

I already talk about Total Drama on my blog quite a bit, to the point where I think some of my followers think I’m a TD blog. I’m not. There’s other stuff I talk about. In fact, there’s even more I could talk about with TD, and opinions I have yet to share. 

However, it is an absolute CRIME in my head that I have not talked about Ninjago as much as I do with TD. I mean, I made a Skybound review awhile back, which holds up on my opinions, but that’s about it.

Why do I say this? Well because, I have the LAMEST childhood over. I did not grow up with Total Drama. I watched it when covid hit and I had nothing better to do. I didn’t even watch Avatar The Last Airbender until last year, which is NUTS. 

I was more so into MLP as a kid, but I stopped watching it around Season 6, not through any puberty hit, but because my parents HATE me watching MLP. (For reasons I don’t get.) And I was also bullied heavily for liking MLP, so...

I also was obsessed with Minecraft Story Mode. (And I did make a few posts about it. They’re old, though.) It’s sad to me what happened to that series...

I also binge read the Sailor Moon manga, and I have all the books still. I watched the 90s show too, but... I honestly did not like it.

I would say, ‘what a surprise, the book is better’, but you’d be shocked to hear the Sailor Moon fandom say that the 90s anime is superior. For me... no.

Then I had one brief RWBY phase. And I mean BRIEF. In actuality, I don’t hardcore hate the show, but the one aspect of the show that prevents me from getting into it is it’s awful protagonists. I dunno, maybe I’ll make a post about that topic, because it’s astounding to me how bad their protagonists are.

And if you know me, I more so tend to have more to talk about when it comes to the flawed shows rather than shows with perfect writing. I said it over and over again, YES, I’ve watched ATLA, and Arcane. Those shows are amazing. Do you want me to praise those shows like the 7 billion other people on planet earth have?

Okay, I’m getting off track.

But there’s one show in my childhood that I distinctly remember being a part of my childhood more than any of these: That’s Ninjago.

I remember when I was around eight years old, and my sibling and I would tune in every week to watch an episode on Netflix. And I don’t even like the shows my sibling watch. But we both bonded with this show specifically. I think it has to do with this being the first show I’ve watched that wasn’t just one episode adventures. This was a show with substance, with story arcs that branch for multiple episodes, with characters to follow. Something I was not familiar with at the time.

Also Zane. Best boy. No I’m not taking criticism.

Before I even made my Tumblr account, I would write private essays talking about Ninjago. They’re terrible. 

I have huge memories of this show. I WANTED to talk about this show for awhile, but couldn’t figure out what to talk about.

And then in my creative writing class, we were talking about tropes we hated. 

My teacher said ‘the love triangle’. (I didn’t have that on my list, surprisingly)

It seemed like everyone, besides myself, hated the love triangle trope. And it seems very valid.

Like, just pick one love interest, darn it!

So that got me to make this post. Why a contest between these two shows?

Well they both have a love triangle that the majority of the fandom hates, they’re both known for destroying a relationship people liked, and they both take place in their Season Three.

And also, everyone hates these plotlines, so I wanted to ask myself, are they really that bad? More importantly, which is worse?

That’s what we’re here for.

Keep in mind, this is my POV on these plotlines. There’s obviously gonna be disagreement and I would love to hear your opinions when reblogging.

Also SPOILER WARNING FROM HERE ON OUT. IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED EITHER OF THESE SHOWS AND DON’T WANT TO BE SPOILED, DON’T CLICK ‘KEEP READING’. Watch the shows, and then come back.

But there’s one key factor that I think makes people lean to one argument:

Bias

My first claim is that it has to do with nostalgia of the show that springs our reactions.

When I watched the Ninjago love triangle as a kid, I was confused, cringing, and angry.

When I watched the Total Drama love triangle when I’m older, I was just like ‘okay, so we’re doing this.’

So obviously, there’s a great line of bias. As a kid, your brain hasn’t fully developed, so when bringing up a concept that isn’t black and white, and emotionally damaging, you’re gonna get heavy results. 

It was the same for when Zane died in Season Three. I was a kid. I was TICKED.

Looking back now, that was an expertly built up scene and one of the best payoffs to a character arc in the show. 

‘Animation is for babies’

And yet you have this:

“Are you working for Silco?”

“Fuck you”

-Arcane. (And that’s the LEAST adult thing in the show)

It’s the same thing with shipping.

Kids media are given the simplistic idea that romance is absolute. That you have one person destined for you and it will all work out.

A love triangle is... complicated, for kids heads.

So when another guy a character is in love with enters the picture, kids are gonna be confused and relatively act negative towards it. Despite the fact that love triangles... do actually exist in the real world?

Anyone remember Hamilton? Of course you do.

This is why we tend to hate Love Tringles in my eyes.

But I want to be as objective as possible with this, and discuss each storyline and their problems. So lets coin toss and decide which show we start with.

*Flips coin*

*Gets Heads*

Ninjago, it’s your lucky day.

I guess it’s fitting since I watched this show first.

Ninjago (Jay, Cole, and Nya Love Triangle)

Ninjago is a show produced by LEGO, which tells the story about a group of ninjas being assigned to face against the evils of the titular world. It’s also LEGOs biggest TV show to date.

This is more of an action superhero show than anything, and I think that’s gonna be the biggest difference here. Both shows I’m talking about have different priorities.

But I’m just focusing on the love triangle.

This plotline springs in its third season, Rebooted. It’s an eight episode long season, and the plotline gets introduced in the premiere briefly, and stays relevant all season between the three characters involved. It gets carried over to season four in that third episode, and it’s mentioned briefly in the premiere of season six. Then it ends.

People tend to hate this love triangle for a certain reason:

Why?

WHY was this love triangle needed?

I tried researching what was going on behind the scenes when the decision was made, but I could not find anything. I may be bad at research though.

My best guess is this:

Ninjago was originally supposed to end after Season Two: Legacy Of The Green Ninja. However, from the success of the show and insane toy sales, they made the decision to continue the story and make a third season. The task of continuing a story you designed to end is... daunting. For any writer.

So my biggest assumption on why they decided to do a love triangle was because they were still struggling to figure out what to do with the story of Ninjago from where they intended to end it.

I don’t hate Rebooted. Rebooted has its moments. But the season also carries a lot of lows, and this is one of them. It’s why I think most of the fandom sees this as a mid tier season overall, and pretty mixed.

So lets give context to the love before the season:

Right from the pilot episodes, one of the missions of the newly formed ninja team was to rescue the fire ninja Kai’s sister, Nya. 

And the lightning ninja, Jay, says this:

“We’re saving a girl? Is she hot?”

Right off the bat, and before they even met, the writers implied that Jay was gonna have a thing for Nya, the most major girl character in the entire show.

Jay and Nya properly meet in the second pilot episode after Kai rescues her, and they exchange their favorite colors. It so happens to be blue. Flirting.

Right off the bat, there is no hate each other until they love each other bull, there is no will they or will they won’t, from the moment they met, these two have had a thing for each other.

In fact, we don’t even really do a ‘will they or will they won’t’ with them, because the flirting carries over in the proper first season of the show.

So much so that their big milestone in their relationship is in Episode 8.

Yeah. That’s quick. It’s almost impressive.

Basically, that episode has Jay trying to impress Nya, Kai tricking him into giving his sister an allergy (like the great brother he is), and despite this, Nya accepting his proposal to go on a date. Unfortunately, Jay gets his finger pricked on a snake fang, and it’s worse sounding than it sounds when you know the context of the show. Wacky hijinks ensue when their secrets of their identities clash, with Jay being a nobody from a junkyard, and Nya being a Samurai ally to the ninja and wanting to keep that a secret because of some sexist bull. 

But by the end of the episode, they make up, confess their feelings, and become an official couple.

From there, there’s minimal drama between their relationship for the rest of Season One, and all of Season Two. It’s just been them flirting and praising each other, and being supportive. 

There was also an episode where an evil clone of Jay kisses Nya, and tells the real Jay about it, which makes Jay so mad that he essentially MURDERS him. 

Compared to Total Drama, and due to different show circumstances, this is actually a very tame thing to do.

So, Jay and Nya as a couple, pre-Rebooted, has had next to NO issues.

Now you might be wondering, if that’s the case, WHY IN THE NAME OF HECK did they decide to throw Cole into this? Where did he fit in all of this?

Well, I just rewatched all of Season One and Two for this post, and in terms of Cole and Nya interactions... there was nothing.

I’m not kidding. These two have not had ONE interaction with each other pre-Rebooted. The most is when Nya is talking to all the ninja, not Cole specifically.

So why would Nya suddenly have a thing for a guy she never talks to, when she has a good relationship with Jay?

And whatever you Total Drama people who haven’t watched Ninjago are thinking, it’s even dumber than that.

So in the premiere of Rebooted, they go to this sci-fi tour at the new Ninjago central tower... thing. The ninja are left doing plot stuff with Cyrus, and Nya is left to take care of kids and be a chaperon to a field trip. Little girls find this ‘perfect match’ machine, which is SUCH a real thing in the real world (sarcasm), and they make Nya try the machine.

And her perfect match is said to be Cole.

THAT is how Nya gets feelings for Cole.

Told you it was dumber than you think.

She did not gain feelings for Cole through any interaction with him, or other people pressuring the concept, or even her current boyfriend being any wrong to her. 

No.

It’s a freaking. MACHINE.

So right at the next time Nya is focused on, she is flirting with Cole. She mistakes him referring to the students with their kids, she gives him the looks, and she’s also holding hands with him.

Yeah. Nya is essentially CHEATING ON HER BOYFRIEND.

And again, she’s only doing this because a MACHINE SAID SO.

It’s not like she’s even trying to hide it, as Jay catches them. 

This makes Nya look horrendously unlikeable in the season, as you’d expect.

Why is this so OOC for her? Because there was ZERO prompting for this to happen. None. 

At most, you could say that Jay’s ego made her feel lesser of relevance, but to Ninjago’s credit, they do address that... IN SEASON SIX. 

So that’s not an excuse here. We’re talking about BEFORE Skybound.

Until Skybound, and I guess Tournament of Elements, Nya hasn’t had an issue with Jay’s ego. Again, in the episode where they hook up, she tells him that he doesn’t need to impress her. And they both agreed on such. 

In the third episode of Rebooted, it’s revealed that PIXAL is the AI of the machine that did all of this. Not only does she not apologize or tell Nya that she should let her heart decide, but she encourages the cheating and to dump Jay.

To be fair, I don’t really hold PIXAL accountable for the love triangle. At this point in the story, she’s just a robot doing her job, and knows little about showing humanity. And she just woke up from a near death experience, so yeah, I think it’s safe to say that she was numb when she told Nya this. PIXAL is really not trying to harm anybody, or say anything personal, she’s just saying what the program of the machine told her to say.

However, Jay hears PIXAL claim that Cole is Nya’s perfect match, explaining that Nya was indeed cheating on her, and it absolutely ENRAGES Jay.

So much so that when an unexpected Cole walks into the room, Jay physically tries to beat him up. 

They were friends before, and had some playful teasing in the first two seasons, but now it’s gone.

This is, deemed by many fans, one of the WORST scenes of the entire show.

I don’t blame them. I hate this scene too.

Even if you take the so called build up out, the scene is accompanied by awful dialogue and puns, so... there is NO ironically enjoying this either.

So from then on, Cole and Jay hate each other and spend the rest of the season fighting over Nya. To be fair, past this episode, it just turns into spiteful comments, and doesn’t escalate to any physical fighting until Season Four. 

And it’s not like they’re trying to kill each other. Quite the opposite in fact. (Jay does oblige in saving Cole from getting lost in space, no hesitation)

So yeah, this season, because of the love triangle, assassinated all three characters involved. And mind you, I LOVE Ninjago’s protagonists. I LOVE these characters. So when I say they’re OOC here, I mean it.

I already talked about Nya and how this was out of character for her. Because the sexist BS is the biggest pet peeve I have with Nya. Otherwise, she’s very compassionate, assertive, and a girlboss with a very strong character arc throughout the entire show.

Jay does have a right to be angry. After all, he was cheated on. But I think he’s mad at the wrong person. He never blames Nya for this at all, and only pins it on Cole as a heartless monster. That’s odd to me, because Nya cheated, and he SAW THAT. I thought he would yell at her at least once, but no, instead he demands she picks him like an egotist. That’s what someone possessive would do, and Jay has NEVER done this before.

Besides, if you think about it, he’s only mad because PIXAL, an AI, said he was no good for Nya. In that case, he should be mad at PIXAL too. Sure, I said that PIXAL couldn’t help it, but if I were Jay, yelling at her would be warranted. 

But nope. It’s all Cole’s fault, even though Cole was kind of a victim of circumstances.

Speaking of, why is Cole even into Nya?

Like I said, they haven’t talked before this. Cole has shown no signs of liking Nya, in fact, he seemed to support Jay and Nya as a couple. This is especially strange because Cole is the kind of character who knows exactly what he wants. If he was into Nya, he would’ve said so right away, especially before Jay even got with her.

The worst part is, the rest of the season only consists of Nya trying to decide who she likes, and the other two trying to fight for her affection. I don’t think they even mention the cheating after this. And again, it goes absolutely nowhere until Season Four, Episode Three.

In that episode, Jay and Cole are forced to fight each other by Clouse rigging the titular tournament. They’re actually not okay with this until Neuro, a guy who can read minds, escalates their rage. Then they’re okay with beating each other up with a ton of rage and grief towards each other. 

Before the match, Lloyd tells them to remember who the real enemy is. He is referring to Chen. This is the driving force to the rest of the fight.

In a fight scene that is actually visually pleasing, ngl, Cole and Jay go all out until a random point in the middle where Cole decides, ‘hey, you’re not my enemy, and I never even liked Nya, so yeah, I’ll just sacrifice myself so you can stay in the game, symbolizing how you won this love triangle.’

And they make up.

Despite the little effort and prompting beforehand. Like I said, they only did this because Lloyd said so. So why are they making up now if they hate each other so much?

And then any love life plotline with Cole completely drops, and Cole is left with no love interest until Master of the Mountain. Cole and Nya have some scenes together after this, but it’s clear that they’re just friends and it never goes anywhere. And in Skybound, the love triangle is just treated as the plot device that broke up Jay and Nya, as they get back together.

So did the love triangle really amount to anything besides that?

No.

You can wipe out this plotline entirely, and not much changes. The villains don’t take advantage of that specifically, and they forget about it afterwards, with no build up beforehand. 

Yeah you could argue Chen and Clouse took advantage of it, but they were after the ninja because they were spoiled the behind the scenes drama of their little game. They were threats, and an alliance, which their games try to discourage. So they would’ve set Cole and Jay up against each other anyway.

I fully understand why people hate this plotline, as it’s used for unnecessary drama. Unlike Total Drama, which uses titular DRAMA as a part of the plot’s torture, Ninjago has no reason for their drama to be unnecessary. This is not a torturous scenario Ninjago is living in, this is an action show!

I guess I can appreciate that Jay and Nya were able to recover from this and get back together. They even get married. My heart sings.

And at least in Ninjago, this plotline drama doesn’t seem to escalate, and people are able to forget about it.

Total Drama is a completely different story.

So lets talk about that.

Total Drama (Courtney, Gwen, and Duncan Love Triangle)

 I talked about Total Drama quite a bit on my blog already, so I’ll be brief.

Total Drama is about a group of teenagers being scammed onto a game show to try and become celebrities. Torture ensues. 

It’s far more treated like a reality show in cartoon form, I guess that’s the best way I can explain it.

Despite the fact that the love triangle here is HIGHLY loathed, even more so than Ninjago, and that I did headcanon posts of all three characters, I’ve avoided talking about the love triangle before this.

That fandom is THAT violent when it comes to this topic.

You will NEVER get the same POV about it.

So what I’m gonna say is guaranteed to tick off at least half of the people who read this.

PLEASE, just hear me out.

I don’t really ship either.

I haven’t been a hardcore Jaya fan either, but it’s the same mindset I gave to Duncney and Gwuncan. In the latter two’s case, it’s because they’re trapped under such awful circumstances, that being the show’s setting used to stress them out, screw up their heads, and torture them. And also the executives who forced this on the writers.

In the context of Total Drama’s writing staff, they didn’t want to do this either. They were forced to by the executives, who wanted to teach kids that breakups happen and you could end up with someone else.

That sounds like it has good intentions...

Until you find that the actual moral they delivered with the first breakup was that ‘If you break up with someone, the entire world will hate you. And you deserve it.’

I don’t think I need to tell you that’s a bad message.

To be fair, I’ve never been against either ship involved, so I don’t hate either.

But the canon circumstances?

OOF.

Let’s get this started:

So the first season of Total Drama is kind of a different story than with Ninjago.

Unlike Ninjago, which just had Jay and Nya as a couple and Cole was someone I assumed was ace (welcome to the club), all three people involved in the later love triangle had an established love interest and relationship.

Gwen, the third wheel and the Cole in this case, had a relationship with Trent, your typical guitar playing love interest and as generic of a love interest as you can get. But they get in a few shenanigans with Gwen being a stubborn loner, and Heather being Heather and doing one of my most hated story tropes, so they don’t get together until the end of the season. 

And then in season two, Trent gets his character assassinated and becomes possessive over Gwen, OVERLY so, and it causes Gwen to break up with him because as I said in previous posts, Gwen doesn’t know how to deal with relationships. 

And then the entire world treats Trent like a victim, that Gwen was the abusive one, and everyone hates Gwen.

And this is just the START of the Gwen social punching bag.

Then in season one, there was another relationship relevant to this topic: Duncan and Courtney.

They’re presented as your typical bad boy/good girl dynamic.

And they actually had fun chemistry. Ngl.

Duncan flirts with her, and Courtney tries to deny her feelings for him and masks it through lectures, claiming she hates his rude and rebellious behavior. Despite this, they keep having sexual tension, and they have a kiss in Episode 12.

You could say Ninjago has an advantage then, but keep in mind that Ninjago has 13 episodes in its season one, and Total Drama has 26 episodes. So I’d say they’re both impressive.

I would say that on an enjoyment standpoint, Duncan and Courtney, and Jay and Nya are very fun couples with fun chemistry. That’s why people liked them.

Jay and Nya however, barely had any drama going on in their relationship before Season Three.

Duncan and Courtney are a different story.

Like I said before, Courtney tried to deny her feelings for Duncan and masked it through lecturing her own love. It’s not until she finds out about Duncan’s more positive traits that she realizes she wants to be around him. Or rather, she can FIX him.

Yeah. Courtney is a fixer upper.

This is a trope in romance, and not a very good one if you ask me. Usually, I use the fixer upper to claim why a relationship would NOT work.

SHUT UP FROZEN.

And I don’t want to take this all out on Courtney and say she’s the problem. Duncan is a jerk as well. He’s a bully, he cares more about his image than being himself, and he also does stuff we’ll talk about in a minute. But in terms of the couple aspect, Courtney is the one raising the red flags in the beginning.

Now, I do think Courtney cares about Duncan and thinks she’s helping, but that is not the point. You can love your partner, and still abuse them.

Instead of these two working through their differences, Courtney just hands Duncan a list of things she wants to change about him, and is VERY strict about him following that. Prior to this, Duncan has annoyed her by trying to flirt with her, and she responds through lethal hits to the nuts, or physical punches, or mentally guilt tripping him. Prior to even that, she DITCHED him in his hour of her need for a million bucks.

Yeah, Total Drama LOVES romanticizing abusive relationships. That is a PROBLEM.

So Duncan, in his stress of the relationship, decides he doesn’t want anything to do with her anymore, and he votes her off the show, breaking them up.

And then he wins a million dollars, and they get back together.

“Now you’re saying that I’m a gold digger, but check my gleam up, hey go figure.” -Six

And then in Celebrity Manhunt, they publicly humiliate each other yet again, sue each other, and break up. So what was the point of them getting back together?

I heard people claim that in this same special, they have a kiss on the bus while bickering, so that means they’re back together.

If you want to see it that way?

Courtney did.

But let me ask you this: Where in this episode was that confirmed? Where did they agree to get back together?

Exactly.

Duncan never made it clear to Courtney that they weren’t back together in his mind. They had what you called a fling. Duncan does this. He is a horndog.

This is Duncan emotionally using Courtney for his own image. See, I told you Duncan wasn’t innocent in this.

Then there’s Gwen.

Unlike Cole and Nya, Duncan and Gwen actually DID have interactions pre-season three.

In season one, their dynamic started around the slasher episode, as they bonded over their shared enthusiasm for blood and gore in movies. They orchestrate the survival plan for the challenge, and betray each other, but I don’t think either of them took it that personally. They also helped each other/bickered in the castaway episode.

Their friendship properly starts in season two, where they have friendly interactions and help each other out in challenges. Gwen even picks Duncan first to be her teammate. 

It gets to a point where Trent, Gwen’s girlfriend at the time, gets jealous and thinks Gwen is hitting on Duncan. Gwen denies it and claims they’re friends, but no one believes her. In fact, when Gwen is sent to the Aftermath show and broken up with Trent, everyone accuses Gwen of dumping Trent for Duncan. Another reason why the show wants you to hate Gwen and absolutely no one else.

That is frustrating.

In the Celebrity Manhunt special, it’s revealed that Gwen DOES indeed have a crush on Duncan and just doesn’t want it to surface because he’s with Courtney. When she hears they broke up, she becomes interested again.

This is a year after season two, so we don’t know what happened that made Gwen change her mind.

Did Gwen and Duncan bond off screen?

That’s an even bigger possibility in this show than in Ninjago given the circumstances, but they never establish that they did.

Duncan quits Season Three at the start, but the producers track him down anyway. Before he returns, Courtney talks about how she misses him, and wants him back.

GWEN IS IN THESE SCENES BTW.

There’s also this exchange between Alejandro and Courtney in episode two that I noticed upon rewatch that I find interesting:

“Such witty remarks from such fiercely intelligent women. I’m both humbled and intrigued.”

“Nice try. But I’m with Duncan.”

“And what pity it is that you should give yourself to a quitter, who doesn’t deserve you.”

“That’s not-Duncan is-totally-you’re just- will someone hurry this camel up?!”

Obviously, Alejandro is playing her. He is the season’s bad guy after all. He’s taking advantage of the relationship strain. 

But consider how Courtney stutters when trying to defend Duncan? She’s trying to dodge any notion that Duncan would leave her. She thinks she’s doing the right thing, and can’t fathom the idea that she’s done something wrong. She doesn’t WANT to believe they’re broken up.

I’m shocked no one brings up this scene, actually.

During this, Gwen and Courtney, being on the same team, become friends from their shared hatred of Heather. Really, I think they just became friends because they’re the only non-simps, non-insane, non-horrible people on their team.

Friendships come from very unlikely places sometimes.

They didn’t really have any interactions before this. Cole and Jay had two whole seasons being on a team.

And then we get THE SCENE.

Duncan comes back, and immediately, Courtney lectures him for leaving her, then embraces him. He says that every time he ran from the cops, he thought of HER.

He’s staring at GWEN.

GWEN REALIZES THIS.

It brings her in a spiral of question late at night, and she’s clearly not thinking clearly. Are Duncan and Courtney a thing? Are they not? Does Courtney deserve him? Is Courtney a bad influence? Does Duncan like Gwen? Is Duncan interested in her?

Duncan shuts out any questions by coming into the bathroom to kiss her.

Thus, he cheats on Courtney with Gwen.

This can be interpreted in a lot of ways, but I think there’s two we can bring up.

One is the nature of Duncan’s character.

He is a horndog who cares about his image. He wants to be seen as a bad boy and not his true self. He wants is bad boy persona to be his true self. He wants validation from the people around him, so anyone who finds interest in that persona, he will bang. 

He’s not sweet good intended Nya. He’s quite the opposite.

But I don’t think it’s clear what his intention was. Was he trying to escape his situation with someone he trusts? Was he trying to spite Courtney? (I mean, All Stars implies that) Was he trying to start over with a new girl? Is he using Gwen? Does he actually love Gwen?

None of these questions get answered. We are given NO clear idea why Duncan did this. That’s why there’s such a division in perspective.

They could’ve at least had a confessional where Duncan explained his intent, whatever it was, but nope.

The other factor is the influence of the show.

This is the machine from Ninjago.

This is the PIXAL, if PIXAL was a sociopath.

The show fans assumed there was something going on with Duncan and Gwen, and they pressure them into trying to admit that being the truth. EVERYONE, throughout the year, pressure this. Geoff, Heather, fans, Chris, even Courtney herself. 

I talked about this in other posts, so I’ll be brief. The show screws up the morality of SEVERAL characters, to the point where they will do nasty stuff you wouldn't see them do in season one, where they were pure.

It’s very easy to assume that Gwen would only have feelings for Duncan because the show is pulling her strings.

But they don’t establish that either. That’s just my interpretation of it to try and make sense of this writing.

So take all of this with a grain of salt.

Gwen regrets the kiss afterwards, somewhat, well, only because afterwards Courtney goes on and on about how Duncan’s her boyfriend. I think Courtney’s just rubbing this in because she knew Gwen was crushing, and wanted to keep her away from him.

I guess you could say Courtney is Total Drama’s Tsundre.

That makes a lot more sense in a minute.

Gwen and Duncan discuss the matter of Gwen kissing Courtney’s boyfriend in a song. Duncan sings he has no regrets, and Gwen reminds him of Courtney. They both agree that they should stop with the secrets and come clean. They know what will happen, so it’s better to just tell the truth.

Then Duncan gets mauled by a bear, so they have to wait until after the challenge.

But then Alejandro figured it out and outs it to Courtney, ruining it.

Courtney IMMEDIATELY becomes bloodthirsty on Gwen, and next to EVERYONE joins Courtney in berating Gwen. (Except Cody)

This scene, alongside the Jay and Cole scuffle, hurts to watch.

But I will confess, I prefer to watch the Total Drama fallout scene, because I think the voice acting in the scene is better. You can feel Courtney’s heartbreak as she screams at her nonstop, and the sinister craziness awakening in her. And Gwen CRYING?! REGRETTING what she did?!

Come on, there’s at least SOME value here besides Cody getting a dub.

Even if it is little value besides Cody getting a dub.

From here on out, EVERYONE on the plane (Again, except Cody) HATE Gwen’s guts. They will not let her forget what she did. They will never give her a single iota of grey area besides ‘You suck Gwen, we hate you, the entire world hates you, and you deserve to be hated. Go jump off a plane and die so we can have a party about it.’

Gwen and Duncan even try to apologize, but no one takes it.

This is like Cole and Jay, only it’s not just Jay berating Cole, it’s EVERYONE.

I think I would’ve stopped watching Ninjago for years if that was the case, because that would’ve been PAINFUL to watch.

Courtney is the key factor of this hate club, and rallies everyone up to hate on Gwen and Duncan and try to remove them. Sierra, Heather, Tyler, Alejandro, who the last one WANTED to happen as he’s now in control of her. 

And unlike Jay, Courtney actually DOES berate the cheater for what they did. Deserved.

But then again, at least Jay doesn’t sing a song about trying to kill the other point of the triangle.

50/50.

To Courtney, this is all a serious betrayal. Gwen and Duncan were the only people Courtney allowed herself to open up to, and then they betray her. She has a right to be mad, but not a right to her actions driven by the madness.

For Gwen, Duncan is now the only person she can feel safe with. People tend to cling to the kindness in their life that’s the closest to them. This is why Gwen chooses to stay with Duncan and ignore all the hate she’s getting. She needs love in this moment. 

And then Duncan tries to play Alejandro by pretending to still be into Courtney. It’s an act, but still.

We never see on screen if Duncan explained himself and apologized to Gwen.

Ninjago had a whole season and three episodes worth of love triangle drama.

Total Drama only has three episodes.

And then it abruptly ends unconcluded. 

Courtney wanted to get revenge on Gwen by dumping her off the plane and making Duncan jealous of her.

Technically, she WON.

She gets Gwen out, and she, not intentionally, uses Scott to make Duncan jealous, which causes Gwen to leave him.

Sorry, getting ahead of myself.

Now lets address All Stars.

You could argue this focuses on the love triangle as well, and... kinda? But, All Stars seems to bail on EVERY plotline World Tour had. I have NO IDEA why this is, as unlike Rebooted, World Tour is a FAN FAVORITE SEASON. But they bailed on everything.

And it’s clear that the writers had no objective with giving the love triangle an ending. 

The season is more so focused on Courtney finding a new boyfriend in Scott, that she plans to use, Duncan being thrusted into a heroes position and wanting to be a bad guy again, and Gwen, once again, being hated by everybody around her.

Duncan and Gwen have NO romantic scenes together, and Gwen constantly shuts him out in favor of trying to make things right with Courtney. The girl she BETRAYED.

She also claims that Duncan was not Courtney’s boyfriend at the time, thus she didn’t do anything wrong...

I’m ASSUMING Duncan told Gwen that story to get her on his side. THAT would make sense of this phrase. BUT the writers never establish that.

And again, Duncan only gets jealous because Gwen’s ignoring him when he’s trying to help, and Courtney’s finding a new slave to give her the win. My assumption is that he’s trying to strike up a conversation with Gwen, considering Gwen wanted to make things right with Courtney, but again, no establishment that this is Duncan’s motive.

So Gwen gets fed up with that, and dumps Duncan, shutting him out of her life.

This scene is SO QUICK, that it feels like an afterthought. There’s no blowout, there’s no prompting, there’s no remorse for the action later besides one Duncan confessional, it’s just ‘okay, they’re broken up now, Gwuncan haters can chill the F out.’

Is that the motive? What about the people who liked Gwuncan as a concept and wanted to see more of them? 

Here’s a writing tip: If your fans don’t like an aspect of your story, DON’T bail out of it. WORK on it. MAKE IT BETTER.

In my series that I’m doing, Destiny’s Burden, a lot of my beta readers didn’t like one of my characters at first. They considered her insufferable, annoying, selfish, and stereotypical. But instead of writing that character out of the plot, I took the time to give that character development, and have them develop less of a spoiled personality. Now that character is a fan favorite among my beta readers.

THIS IS WHERE YOU DO THAT, BUT WITH THE LOVE TRIANGLE.

THIS IS WHERE YOU WRITE IT BETTER.

And then there’s the last part of this. Gwen and Courtney making up.

Unlike Tournament of Elements, which threw in the forgiveness at the last minute, Gwen actually puts in the effort beforehand to be friends with Courtney again. She tries REALLY hard actually.

Gosh, I CANNOT believe I’m saying ALL STARS did something better than THE TOURNMENT OF ELEMENTS. WHAT AM I ON?!

And, looking at the Cole and Jay tournament fight, and the Gwen and Courtney boxing match... this is the same scene.

This is literally the same scene, minus the sacrifice Ninjago had.

They duke it out, they beat each other, and they apologize in the middle, explaining that they never missed the girl/guy, they just missed each other, and they make up and become friends again.

I prefer the Ninjago scene though, because it’s way more visually pleasing, and the dialogue seems more sincere to me. Courtney and Gwen’s ‘apology’ is so corny I can’t-

So what is the ending of Total Drama’s love triangle? Courtney and Gwen become best friends in la la land, they trash over Duncan, and cheer when he’s thrown in jail.

And then Courtney betrays Gwen, making all the love and support Gwen got back meaningless. But hey, that’s not relevant to this topic.

Most people in the fandom claim that this was character assassination on all three characters. Just like I said with Ninjago. 

Here’s the thing: Total Drama has more episodes around this time. Ninjago didn’t. I know NOW it’s not a contest on which show had more episodes, but looking at it, Ninjago, in four seasons, had 44 episodes, and Total Drama, in four seasons, had 91.

This is a double edge sword, as on one hand Total Drama has more to work with. On the other, Total Drama has more to work with.

After all, like I said, we are given no clear motive for why Duncan even cheated, or didn’t tell Courtney that they weren’t together anymore. Gwen was cheated on technically in season one, and here she is doing that same emotional betrayal in season three to Courtney. And again, the whole ‘he wasn’t your boyfriend’.

There’s multiple instances where literally ONE MORE SCENE of ANY part of this plotline could’ve helped it make more sense. But no. The writers just really did not want to write this. Again, they were forced to. It shows.

But I will say this, unlike with Ninjago’s love triangle, the Total Drama love triangle is SEVERELY plot relevant. You CAN’T write it out.

Everyone says they should’ve just written it out... how? 

Every fanfic I’ve seen that’s written the love triangle out actively made the story less interesting, and gave the three characters involved nothing to do. 

The villains, again, take advantage of the situation to give themselves plot armor. This is how Alejandro uses Courtney. She would’ve never helped him otherwise. This is what makes Heather jealous, prompting the last quarter of World Tour. This is what season two’s Gwen bashing has built up to. This is what makes Gwen the biggest social punching bag of the entire show. This is what spawns Gwen to become a villainous vulture. This is the start of Duncan’s downfall, and his mental distress getting him behind bars later.

You NEED the love triangle to be a thing for the story to make any sense.

I’m sorry, but that’s what I see.

Which is Worse?

Now to answer the money question.

Which plotline is worse?

This is REALLY subjective. So take it with a grain of salt.

Both of these plotlines have huge issues. They are both dampers to their season three. 

Ninjago had a worse motive, a more pathetic fight, dragged on, and had no plot relevance whatsoever.

Total Drama had a more unlikeable cast participating, poor establishment of motive, ended way too quickly, and suffered from no ending.

I think we can both agree on the quality on both of these plotlines.

It really depends on which plotline I would prefer to watch a compilation of over and over again.

And in that sense...

I think I’d pick Total Drama as the better one.

This is for a few reasons: 

One is that Total Drama is a far more morally grey show, so its characters are far more morally grey than with Ninjago. It’s more believable that the TD characters would do stuff so spiteful towards each other, than the Ninjago characters. This makes it so that you can see everyone’s point of view, and the plotline becomes welcome for multiple interpretations. 

Two is that there was SOME build up to the cheating. You could say that it was bad build up, but at least it WAS build up. What build up was there in Ninjago? Oh yeah, none.

Three is that Total Drama’s plotline is actually plot relevant. If I have to watch the love triangle to watch World Tour, I’ll watch it. I won’t skip it. If I skip it, I know I’ll miss vital information for the rest of the story.

That said, though I say Ninjago is the worse plotline, it does have an advantage of having a better makeup scene, and an actual ending. And the characters were able to recover because of that.

Because, with all six of these characters, I DO like them all. I want the best for them (even if Duncan arguably doesn’t deserve it)

But let me know your thoughts. Would you agree? Disagree? Is there something I missed? Let me know.

#Total Drama #Ninjago #love triangle #Td Duncan #Td Courtney #Td Gwen #Ninjago Nya #Ninjago Jay #Ninjago Cole #Nya Smith #Jay Walker #Cole Brookstone #Total Drama World Tour #Total Drama All Stars #Ninjago Rebooted #Ninjago Tournament Of Elements #Analysis #Battle #Duncney #Gwuncan #Jaya #Coya

[doomalade]

Yknow, I still struggle to understand what is it qrwby & ornj were afraid of happening that they were all unanimously fine with lying to Ironwood about info, conealing which could change their whole purpose of staying in Atlas. And at what point exactly, just what big bad/good reveal were they waiting for to pop out that would make them fully trust/distrust him?

Like I get that they wanted to play it safe after Lionheart and Ozpin fuss but ffs James has been an ally since v2 and has repeatedly risked his life for the same cause as you. Maybe yall should tell him that whatever his plan to "destroy" Salem is, it's set to fail, and all of you know why. Why act in accordance to Ironwood's orders, why deplete Mantle of the resources it desperately needs, which you explicitly express condemnation for, why build Amity Tower, why tell the world about this immortal, potent, malignant being striving to destroy the world, if you all know it'll all be in vain? The longer you guys keep this hidden, the less time you'll have to come up with a real working ass plan to save people, Salem's not gonna wait forever ffs. In their place, I would have told him when he promoted them to pro huntsmen. But no, even then there was this uncertain something that kept all of them from telling him.

Yknow if they really wanted to go for this "trust issues" subplot, I think it wouldve been cool if the mcs split in their opinions about their course of actions to the point when while Yang & Blake + Nora play among us and divulge info to Robyn, Ren in turn has decided to tell Ironwood what they'd been hiding because the former has self awareness and had his own turmoil he had been toiling in and doesn't want to make another mistake that he knows could cost them thousands of lives. He had a promising setup for this that got thrown out of the window in v8. That'd be the real drama, instead of "good vs bad", it'd be "us vs us oh shit i think im starting to get why ozpin was so distrustful of his own allies". That or Qrow not acting like he and James are total strangers and trying to talk his way into understanding James' reasoning to not trust the council, which might've convinced him to work together toward a better solution.

Yeah once more I think it speaks on the philosophy of “don’t do it or go full in”. Basically Go Big or Go Home lol

Either have RWBY and Co. be fully honest with Ironwood and go from there or yeah show the divide in the group and put great emphasis on that.

Yang, Blake, and Nora trusting Robyn more and focusing on the struggles of Mantle while Ren and maybe Weiss focus on helping Atlas and trusting Ironwood while Ruby and Jaune struggle with being team leaders and Oscar with becoming Oz.

#rwby #doom.txt