#cultural xtianity

[nonegenderleftpain]

There are few things I hate more than "Jewish ally" anti-theists and atheists that spout complete bullshit about Judaism and our supposed beliefs as though they know better than we do what we believe. When we talk about cultural xtianity, this is the kind of shit we're talking about.

"You might not believe in hell but most Jews do, my ex-xtian interpretation of your holy texts is correct despite thousands of years of information on the subject, here's a video telling you that you're wrong." Spent several posts calling non-religious people "freethinkers," and continuously dodged the question regarding the harm eliminating religion would do to so many cultures. Not to mention going from "I think the world is better without religion" to "you have an anti-xtian bias that I don't like" as though there's not a reason for that.

Ex-xtian atheists - you need to address and unlearn your xtian belief that your way is the only right way. That you are objectively correct and everyone else is just ignorant. That you know better than the religious minorities you are addressing. People like this want an excuse to talk down to religious minorities under the guise of polite language, and if you don't want to be associated with them, you have to put in the work to not be like this. I say this as an ex-Catholic, and a former anti-theist - do better.

If you are making objective assertions about someone else's religion that you have not studied and cannot answer basic questions about, you're not being critical of religion, you're being an atheist supremacist. If you pull a "gods are more harmful than helpful" like this person but cannot tell me the impact of Kali or Sàngó on their respective cultures, you are not being critical, you're ignorant and self-absorbed. If you have not studied religion, you do not know what you are talking about, and if you are only accepting xtian interpretations of other religions as true, even as a basis for hatred of religion, you're just a xtian with a new wallpaper.

If you are advocating for anti-theism, you are advocating for the cultural genocide of hundreds of different cultures around the world. If you are advocating for anti-theism, you are inherently anti-Jew. And if you are talking over Jews when they correct you on your blatant misunderstanding of our culture, only to call us *liars* when we counter your misconceptions, or call out your cherry-picked sources for why you know better than we do, you're not just an asshole, you're an Antisemite.

I took this conversation in good faith, hoping that the ignorance was born from misunderstanding instead of malice. I should not have been so kind. And if you're going to come onto this post and whine and cry about "not all atheists," or "cultural xtianity isn't real," save us both the time and block me. I'm done entertaining atheists that will not acknowledge that y'all don't know better than the religious minorities you are insulting by assuming we're all just blind sheep being lied to by some hierarchy that doesn't exist outside of certain religions. My partner is an atheist. I was for a long time, and I chose to return to religion on my own. I'm still an atheist, but I am also very religious. I'm the "smart Jew" that ex-xtians love to talk about; enlightened and no longer clinging to the supernatural. And I'm telling you that you're a fucking asshole and I associate more with the most spiritual Orthodox Jew than I ever would with someone who thinks atheism makes you superior.

#atheism #atheist #anti theism #anti theist #jumblr #antisemitism #supercessionism #cultural christianity #cultural xtianity #antitheism #anti-theism #religion #religion is a lie #religion is bullshit #jewish stuff

[bear-of-mirrors]

I never want to hear another atheist get mad about being called “culturally xtian” ever again.

#richard dawkins #atheists #atheism #cultural Xtianity #cultural christianity

[spacecatsunited]

"cultural Christianity isn't a thing"

Okay then why does every food place in America serve fish on Fridays specifically for lent. They alter their menus to make sure they have the food for that market and yet nothing for other religious periods.

But sure cultural Christianity isnt a thing

#cultural xtianity

[the-eldritch-it-gay]

Zoned out during a work meeting and instead of taking notes on the meeting I went crazy and wrote this

[Image Transcript:

Prophethood grows in you like a fungus Invisible spores cause divinity to sprout from your flesh Purpose takes root just as easily as mycelium Each mutation, each warping, each loss is sacred creation God consumes you, digests you, makes your decomposition a sacrement

You consume god, tearing into Him with your teeth every time you eat He is not the god of harvest, He is the harvest Every piece of grain is flesh and blood you eat He is not the god of knowledge, He is knowledge You hunger for him and take him into yourself as surely as food

God consumes you, You consume God At autopsy they will find no part of you untouched Every sample, every biopsy will be infected with divinity When they cut open your chest, they will see holiness metastisized

They will put cause of death as Martyr Because they cannot see the truth You did not die ]

#Eldritch IT Speaks #ask to tag #i know theres probably errors in spelling and whatnot #poetry #Eldritch IT Writes #THIS IS NOT ABOUT XTIANITY BTW 🔫 #THE ENTIRE INSPIRATION OF THIS IS ME LEARNING SACRED MEXICA NARRATIVES #AND ALSO FROM MY D&D CHARACTER WHO IS ALSO HEAVILY BASED ON MEXICA CULTURE

[deservedgrace]

Xtianity putting so much weight in self sacrifice means you can't complain when putting your all into the church god causes you harm, because "Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice and we're called to sacrifice things joyfully and graciously and complaining and being ungrateful is a sin"

#i still get upset that people would rather me dead and xtian #than alive and non xtian #it's. wild #what people believe. what xtianity makes people believe #ex christian #religious trauma #the thing is too like... for me at least this was more of a culture thing than a said out loud thing #and that kinda stuff is insidious bc people will deny that it's real bc it's so ingrained in the culture #that they can't actually see it or it's so normalized that they can't see anything wrong with it #idk im angry about xtianity tonight what's new

[cruelsister-moved2]

im sooooo sick of neopagans thinking they invented stuff that literally every religion thats not modern american evangelicalism already has 💀 i dont care if u want to light candles in ur bedroom or whatever, but even when youre swinging at “normie” religions ur still missing like okay catholics LOVE altars. jewish liturgy celebrates moon cycles. whatever youre trying to articulate about an all encompassing divinity of universal love was probably said in verse by a persian muslim centuries ago. your american christian/atheist background is a huge outlier in the global history of religion: it’s not even that you’re missing some niche exception, it’s literally that your entire perspective on “organised religion” is based on an outlier 💀

#this woman being like wicca is awesome because it doesnt teach fire and brimstone to children. #okay. good news about how many religions believe in the fire and brimstone concept. #and wicca is a funny example because its so infamously like. culturally appropriative and downright racist #like i agree it does less harm than evangelicalism but thats just because it does less of anything...... #it's more of a hobby than a religion #+ belief in the supernatural is both subjective + literally only one of like 8 markers of religiosity that sociologists study #fixation on that in particular ltierally stems from the UNIQUELY faith-based and exclusive model of xtianity #anyway this is why i believe in religious educationand w the additional benefit of learning abt other religions might help xtians of certain #stripes to realise how like abnormally fucked up their communities are #also most neopaganism is literally xtianity-jesus like the underlying concepts are so christian but theyll still be like fuck those #abrahamic religions. like okay you honestly are just an xtian holding an incense stick what does this have to do with me

[hussyknee]

#happy easter #channing tatum #magic mike #movies #laugh tag #twitter #xtianity #crack #pop culture #symbols #knee of huss

[antisisyphus]

stop blaming things on american puritanism when european catholicism is right there

#we can and SHOULD clown on the puritans but like... #purity culture isnt unique to america/puritanism. like. cmon now #anyways there are def ideals/culture that we got from puritans (individualism im looking at you) #but i think by and large its just like. xtianity as a whole

[unbidden-yidden]

I wrote up all that discourse at stupid late o'clock, but I still think I'm basically right.

I think something that's happening here that I haven't seen addressed much is that a lot of folks are reacting from places of hurt on both sides, and it's making rational conversations about this topic difficult.

From the religious Jewish side, I'm seeing folks reacting to the absolute barrage of culturally Xtian ideas, assumptions, and behavior from a large majority of interactions in the US, even from people who are not Xtian now or ever. I've been there and lived this - I have personally and recently had several anti-theists (and atheists who were essentially anti-theists but not calling themselves that) say all matter of mind-numbingly offensive things about Judaism that range from "not true" to "this is aggressively and willfully misunderstanding something as nefarious when it's really not" to "this is straight up Xtian supercessionist propaganda." Or, my perennial favorite: "no culture is free from critique, but this is 100% an intracommunity conversation that you don't know enough to meaningfully participate in, even if it were appropriate, which it's not." The first thirty times this happens, you can kind of roll your eyes about keyboard warriors and trolls, but at some point it crosses a line where it's like, dude. What is going ON with this community and why aren't the more vocal members shutting this down? Are they supporting it or just don't care? What the heck?

And I can vouch that this is happening and that it's not isolated or small numbers of idiots, because I've dealt with it a lot myself and have watched several other Jews on here deal with it a lot as well. It's an actual problem and it needs to be addressed.

That said, the big problem with these ideas and behaviors is not that they're Xtian in origin, but that they're antisemitic. There are plenty of Xtian conceptualizations of Judaism that are antisemitic and well-meaning Xtians or ex-Xtians or people who have absorbed these Xtian ideas will perpetuate them. The answer here is to educate people on why it's a problem and then it is those people's and their communities' responsibilities to listen, learn, take it seriously, and stop perpetuating antisemitic ideas, no matter why or how well-intentioned.

From the ex-xtian atheist side, I'm seeing a lot of folks reacting from a place of frustration at not having their religious trauma respected, which I get, because I have the same reaction to people not respecting my trauma either. It's a major trigger for me, and dismissing my experiences out of hand is not only not okay but very damaging.

As someone who is an ex-Xtian and is now Jewish, I can tell you that there is a massive cultural difference here that's stopping the conversation. Someone whose lived experience of religion is Xtianity only or primarily is likely going to have a hard mental barrier between religion and culture, namely because Xtianity has a habit of absorbing the local culture no matter what it is. This is intentional because Xtianity is a universalist religion and has little agenda on removing local flair. Rather, it has a serious investment in promoting its orthodoxy, regardless of how that is accomplished on the ground. This is why evangelicals will fund messianics, btw - they are less concerned with what it looks like on the surface and much more so about getting everybody on the Jesus train. If keeping external cultural symbols is what it takes to get Jews on board, then so be it.

So when a person raised Xtian apostasizes, from their perspective they are doing the ONE thing that is universally forbidden in Xtianity, which is rejecting Jesus. That is the only way to truly separate yourself from Xtianity, in the end. Everything else, some church, somewhere, is willing to work with. But you have to have faith in Jesus or you're not a Xtian, and conversely, if you reject Jesus then you've done the one surefire thing that makes it impossible to be a Xtian.

I hope this gives some context for why someone with the religious trauma of having Xtianity infect every area of their life and say "no no - we can work with this; we still own you," is going to freak the fuck out if you still say they're Xtian - even just culturally so - after they did the one true thing they knew how to do so that they could separate themselves from Xtianity and its cultural creep and osmosis.

This is not to say that their ideas or beliefs aren't still heavily influenced by Xtianity. They probably are! Heavily! But the problem is that if you tell someone that has just severed their tie to an abusive religious structure or who has been fending it off their whole lives that they themselves, as a human being - not their behavior or ideas - but they themselves as a core, inescapable part of their being, are always going to be in some way influenced and therefore owned by Xtianity, you've not only triggered that trauma, but you haven't even solved the problem. The problem is not that such a person has behaviors or ideas that originate from Xtianity, but rather that these ideas and behaviors were antisemitic to begin with. There's literally nothing wrong with observing secular Xmas. What is wrong is denying that your choice to engage a Xtian holiday, even in a way that you personally find secular, is a culturally Xtian behavior, and more importantly, if you then insist that it should be neutral or secular to Jews, you're being antisemitic and denying OUR religious trauma by imposing your understanding of secularity on us.

And as a clarification, I'm defining "religious trauma" here extremely broadly - not to water down the experiences of people who endured cultic spiritual abuse from their [former] religious organization - but rather because there is a much more diffuse (and usually milder) kind of trauma that virtually every non-Xtian, ex-Xtian, and even plenty of actual Xtians have experienced in the US. Namely, the involuntary cultural creep and control exercised by Xtian fundamentalists and christofascism.

It hits different people in different ways, based on who you are and what your experiences have been, but the bottom line is that it is virtually impossible to totally get away from the power and influence and cultural dominion of Xtianity, particularly fundamentalist Xtianity, if you live here.

For many/most Jews, it hits on several levels that include intergenerational trauma from violent Xtian antisemitism and specific efforts to convert and therefore eradicate us. There is so much trauma embedded in Jewish reactions to Xtianity that it's hard to even begin to untangle it and makes this a challenging topic no matter what. And then, of course, you also have the cultural disconnect of how we conceptualize religion and culture. For us, these things are deeply and inescapably intertwined. The question of "Who is a Jew?" is thorny, precisely because there are so many ways and levels from which to engage one's Jewish identity that are connected but need not occur together at all. So for, say, an exvangelical to simply reject Jesus would, from their own perspective, be the decisive blow that makes them not a Xtian and actively disassociating themselves from Xtianity is likely extremely important for their autonomy and mental health. But from a Jewish perspective, if they've merely ripped out the heart of their Xtianity but not addressed any of its other surrounding features, it's nowhere near adequate to then claim that they've totally and decisively separated themselves from it.

The thing is, this would honestly not be a problem (or at least not our problem) if Xtianity (particularly fundamentalist Xtianity) didn't have such an antisemitism problem. Unfortunately, because it does, both the original antisemitic behaviors/ideas and the after-the-fact denial of its relationship to Xtianity and Xtian culture(s) become our problem. Which means these interactions tend to go something like this:

Someone will spout off something antisemitic that has its origins in Xtianity.

A Jew will point out the original antisemitic behaviors/ideas and ask them to knock it off.

The first person will double down and/or demand a detailed explanation of why it's antisemitic, because they not only think they are correct, but also because they still believe that they know the important things about Judaism from learning the Old Testament in church and also likely believe in the Xtian idea of one universal Truth without realizing it.

The Jew will point out the above reality with varying degrees of patience, hoping that pointing out the (to us) obvious connections to Xtian belief and culture will get them to stop, since they are usually in the process of explaining how not-Xtian they are and how much they hate religion. This is usually done by telling the person that they are still culturally Xtian and speaking from that place. This is usually (from our viewpoint) intended as a neutral, factual statement to help the other person understand the issue fully.

This triggers that person's religious trauma around Xtian cultural creep (at a minimum, if not worse) and the person shuts down.

The conversation then devolves into "I'm not a fucking Xtian, do not call me that." vs. "I didn't say you were Xtian, I said you're culturally Xtian and speaking from that place, calm down."

Followed by: "That's still calling me a Xtian of some variety and I did The Thing I needed to do to get away from it, stop telling me I'm still associated with this group that traumatized me." "You only did one thing to get away from it?? Wow, you have a long way to go."

The original antisemitism that was the actual problem is never returned to.

What's truly unfortunate about this is that there is such potential to build interfaith solidarity around Xtian hegemony together, but we're not going to be able to do that if we don't get past the above conversation.

I don't have all the answers, but I do think that the following would go a long way towards moving past this:

Be aware of what things trigger you with regards to religion and trauma from Xtian hegemony, and step away from a conversation if you need to.

Be willing to to take into account different cultural understandings of what religion and/or culture even is.

Be willing to meet people where they're at in their process, and recognize the work they have done, even if they have a long way to go still.

Learn about antisemitism and how to recognize it. Listen to Jews when we tell you something is antisemitic.

Don't frame culturally Xtian behavior or ideas as inherent personal traits, but rather clearly describe it as a behavior or idea they could let go of.

Realize that if someone identifies a certain behavior or idea as culturally Xtian, they are typically trying to help you understand what's happening better and find commonality in opposing Xtian hegemony.

Recognize your own religious trauma, and also realize you're not the only one with it. Use that to be more empathetic and/or compassionate, rather than seeing it as a threat to the validity of your experiences.

Anyway, this got long and I don't have the time or energy to edit it down, but that is what I've come to so far.

#the cultural Xtianity debate #every hour is theology hour around here apparently #long post

[sag-dab-sar]

The Need to Recognize Christmas' Preferential Treatment 🎄

Christmas is seen as "stolen" from pre-Christian traditions or described as "not really Christian". Some of it is legitimate (e.g with specific local or national folk traditions), a lot of it is pseudo-history (e.g Mithras birthday, an entire Christmas tree, lights) but frankly neither actually matter. Because, in our modern world, Christmas holds a prestigious place due to Christianity.

.🔹.

Here are examples that showcase Christmas' ubiquitous, unquestioned place in many Culturally Christian nations and why we need to recognized its ubiquity:

Appropriation of Judaism, re-imagined for Christmas exists like this. @/koshercosplay has basically an infinite amount of examples to use for these posts and even gets sent asks of more examples.

There is no Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu or other religions' holidays reserved as an official federal holiday in the US. So all non-Christian religious holidays are labeled as "accommodations" while Christmas is a given.

While my post targets the US because thats were I am from, this isn't US only. Christmas is a public holiday in a large protion of countries around the world (see map).

Hallmark Christmas movies, that are made by the dozens at this point and are a US Christmas staple, are propaganda longing for a better ""family friendly"" white washed Christian version of America that never existed.

Hallmark has added anti-semitism into it's Christmas movies.

A Hanukkah presentation was banned in a Florida school meanwhile the same school was celebrating Christmas activities and decorations. Justified by Florida's Parental Rights Bill ("Don't say gay" bill) "obligating us to follow the 5th grade standards [...] At this time, a Chanukah presentation is not in our standards." It was only reversed to to social media outcry.

Something similar also happened in a Vancouver school where Christmas decorations were allowed because they "aren't religious" while Hanukkah ones were explicitly denied.

Fasting and breaking for prayer during Ramadan is seen as an inconvenience to employers, who need "guidance" on how to "accommodate" their Muslim employees. And has led to Muslims being straight up fired. Whereas Christmas decorations, events, or music in a work setting is fine.

Universities won't hold classes on Christmas but will reverse their practice of not holding classes on Yom Kippur & Rosh Hashanah because not holding classes on those holidays is "intended to insure greater continuity in the academic schedule and minimize course disruption for students." Those two holidays are a debate at the university— Christmas is never a debate.

Not holding classes on Eid al-Adha is also controversial! This also included reversing the decision to not have classes. The decisions to not hold classes on the holiday is a debate at the school board— Christmas is never a debate.

To make it all worse in the US: Christian Nationalism is dramaticlly increasing x x x

.🔹.

No matter what pagan-ness or secular aspects can be found in Christmas it has a privileged special place in our culture— that is afforded to no other religion— specifically because it is Christian. There are a few examples where this isn't the case (e.g Japan) but those are very few and far between

In my strong opinion: if you choose to celebrate the holiday, as a Christian or non-Christian, you should recognize the special spot & privilege it has.

You shouldn't dismiss that fact and the above examples because "pagan origins" or "celebrating it in a secular way"

Maybe next time when your classmate, your child's classmates, or you sibling's friend want to put up Hanukkah decorations in school next to the Christmas ones you can speak against the school administration that bans it, or against the teacher who gets upset at the idea.

Or perhaps you can be the person at the school board meeting who points out that Christmas isn't any more special than Yom Kippur or Eid al-Adha so why are those debatable when Christmas isn't.

Recognizing these things is not raining on Christmas' parade nor does it mean you should feel guilty for celebrating, its simply a matter of expanding you view of the world and learning the obstacles other people face.

.🔹.

P.S

Recognizing its preferential spot is paramount imo but if you'd also like to touch on the history of the matter:

Here is some info on the "Christmas is stolen" argument, as well as tracing secular and religious history of the holiday.

The origins of Christmas and its traditions are marred with psudeo-history plastered all over news websites, blogs, and supposedly reputable sources. But many of this comes down to secondary sources citing each other in a loop without primary sourcing. Here is an example of how that can happen (not xmas related).

-

-Dyslexic, not audio proof read- | -repost-

#repost #paganism #pagan #polytheism #christmas #cultural christianity #christian #xmas #holiday season #hannukah #adding that tag since it has so many examples #and i suppose merry christmas if you're celebrating it #i say all this as a christmas lover #like a BIG christmas lover #xtianity #resources #celebration day

[handweavers]

when reading scripture or religious texts in my studies from a variety of religions (a not-insignificant part of my education has been religious studies) i can appreciate and understand the beauty and appeal of it and make sense of its internal logic system and worldview and feel that i'm picking up what it's putting down even if i don't necessarily identify with it on a personal level, but i gotta be honest i always feel like i'm missing something or losing my mind when i read christian texts like i don't get it and it doesn't make sense to me and nothing about the trinity makes sense to me and the entire worldview feels so harsh and terrifying and bleak for no reason and every time i've asked anyone in my family (on the christian side) to explain any of it to me like sincerely i just feel more baffled and whenever i've had to read passages of the new testament i dont get it at all like even abstractly i don't understand and it makes me feel crazy like what i'm looking at has to be completely different from what other people are seeing and i don't mean it in a reddit atheist smug asshole way like it's genuinely beyond my comprehension I Don't Get It and i don't think i ever will

#and this is solely looking at texts/scripture/writings like i understand its historical and material context and aesthetics #i appreciate the way thay different ethnic groups have adapted xtianity to their culture and find it fascinating when it is syncretic #with ancient traditions and respect peoples right to practice and understand many xtian minorities have faced persecution etc #but every time i read something from the new testament im like is this really...??? uhhhh #and i dont feel that way at all w any other religions texts i can vibe with it i see what its doing and understand it and appreciate it #i find it so deeply unappealing in every possible way . truly just not for me sorry #it doesnt help the sheer amnt of bad experiences ive had with xtians targeting me for conversion #explicitly even after being told that i am sikh and not interested and continued to be harassed #and a genuinely traumatic incident w christian family counselling ive blocked out lol

[nonegenderleftpain]

"Abrahamic" this, "Judeo-Christian" that, JUST SAY XTIAN MY GD YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT

The xtian god and the Gd that I (maybe) believe in as a Jew are not the same thing. Judaism and xtianity are not the same religion with a different skin. In all the antitheist and atheist ranting about religion, I have never seen one person with anything educated to say about Judaism. Y'all base your anger on xtianity and make it our problem, shit on our beliefs while conflating them with the very people who have tried to kill us for two thousand years, and then have the gall to mock us when we tell you you're wrong about what we believe. Fuck off.

#anti theism #antitheism #judaism #xtianity tw #jumblr #christianity #cultural christianity #<< yall cant see around this blinding you from learning literally anything else

[captainjonnitkessler]

Like remember when the Trump administration was like “we’re not lying, we’re just using alternative facts”? And the general consensus was that a country in which two sides could no longer agree on a shared reality because one side could never be persuaded of objective truth by any type of evidence or facts was really fucking bad and dangerous?

I’m not any more inclined to accept “alternative facts” from a religious person than I was from Trump.

#atheism #now that we've reached 'calling creationism a lie is cultural xtianity bc only xtians believe in the concept of objective truth' #phase of discourse #creationism; astrology; 'aliens built the pyramids' truthers; crystal healing - all things i've seen discourse about #whether it's okay to call them bullshit or not bc they're 'sincerely held beliefs' and therefore shouldn't be challenged #but yes. we can and we should call out bullshit actually

[heavyweightheart]

and we’re all counting so heavily on the fictional mind-body split to firewall our emotional state from our physical/biological state. like can’t we mortify the flesh AND have virtuous (positive) emotions about it lol?? no, actually 

#speaking of cultural xtianity

[queerpyracy]

listen not to be a hysterical ex youth group kid who comes from a town So protestant & evangelical that white catholics are exotic but i think if any religion, especially a hegemonic one currently experiencing a rise in ethnonationalist sentiment, is trying to seem cool and relatable to the youths you should probably ask yourself Why That Is

#babbles #i try to have a pretty Normal relationship to xtianity as a general concept but like #let's also be aware of the cultural soup we're boiling in shall we

[hussyknee]

I know Tumblr doesn't have an algorithm but I didn't know Tumblr didn't have an algorithm this much

#ashfjdkaj #btw Tumblr has marked a gif set from the movie 'mature' #because it showed shirtless gays #in case you forgot how homophobic this place is #the userbase is not the company #lgbtqia #xtianity #evangelical christianity #homophobia #FirstPrince #red white and royal blue #queer media #Tumblr culture #Tumblr ads #described #knee of huss